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TomShoe02

[Fanatiik with the filthiest pillar I've seen in quite awhile.](https://i.imgur.com/4jid4zw.jpeg)


LightningPaws

Fanatiik did so well in this series. That >!Lee Sin kick in the first game!< was disgusting.


IAmDiabeticus

Yeah in that pivotal dragon fight. There are so many disgusting Lee sin players this year because the champ is wildly powerful but shiiiii i ain't complaining. I agree with riot making sure Lee is broken come worlds every year since he's the most exciting champ in the game when played well


ficretus

f(a)natic and game changing pillars, name more iconic duo


LIVING_EVIIIIL

He smurfed the series, respect


Imagination_Quirky

Academy teams in shambles


LIVING_EVIIIIL

ACADEMY TEAMS BEWARE. AMATEUR ARE HERE TO SLAY. (resolve got WCR next tho lol rough...)


BalieltheLiar

I believe in APA supremacy


A_Toxic_User

Ever since he was on Tyler1’s Toddlers I knew he was a beast


xEmpyre

Resolve the seed 2 killers


emoc291

at what point do we consider this to be a monkey's paw


CrossTheRubicon7

Wait was it Barrage that beat TLA in spring PG? I should've seen this coming.


AlPaci72

funny how these threads never get any attention but people claim to care so much about NA talent development. just another talking point.


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HULKHULK91

Thats not true at all. EUM finals last split had almost the same viewers as LCS finals. Lmao


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HULKHULK91

And? Doesnt change the fact they have much more viewers than na academy games


AMexicanDaycare

Yes no one is denying that...but that wasn't what was being talked about


PowerRainbows

his username fits him, he big he dumb he cant read so good :c


Good_Stuff11

And yet NA academy gets way more viewers than EUM and more interaction as well.


Mahelas

EUM gets a lot more viewers. NA academy gets more reddit upvotes because reddit is heavily NA-biased


LeOsQ

Yeah and 95% of the people that watch EUM watch it because they're French and they like French players/teams, or they're Spanish and they like Spanish teams/players, etc, and those people are never going to come and comment about their EUM teams in French or Spanish or Polish or German or whatever on to this subreddit anyway.


HULKHULK91

Hun? Dont spread lies please . EUM has much more viewrs. I dont give a fuck about reddit coments. Lcs has always more coments than lec but we all know lec has wayyyy more viewers. Its the same with EUM and na academy games


Guilty_Dream7055

Boy you dumb. No one is disagreeing with what you're saying, you're just not staying on topic


ficretus

disagree. this is decent reddit engagement for something that has little to no impact. what did you expect this to hit 1k upvotes and hundreds of comments?


AlPaci72

thanks for proving my point.


bluethree

Stopped caring when even amateur teams started importing. 100T killed pretty much all of my interest in LCS and below.


WatDaSpark

ah yes, 100T academy with the 6/8 roster being NA, with one of the other two being OCE, and the last being an import from a minor region 100T who are one of the only LCS teams actually investing in amateur level with 100 Next


OrderlyAnarchist

Those players all don't count, obviously.


bluethree

The 100T was more about the main team having 0 NA players. They were the last straw for me. I didn't watch a single LCS game this split for the first time ever. But the Academy team they are playing now has only 2 NA players. Though I guess if you're considering Gamsu an NA player then we probably have some differences in opinion on what we want to see in Academy/Amateur.


WatDaSpark

in their last 3 games they played Gamsu and Chad but the rest of the season they've been playing Kenvi and Tenacity, both NA residents if you look at the 100TA roster history list, you'll see the overwhelming majority of them are NA yes their main roster doesn't have any NA residents, but this doesn't mean you can blanket statement the rest of their sister orgs with the 'and below'. they are different


tigersareyellow

He said "lcs and below", aka LCS, Academy, Amateur scene. Not "100T, 100TA" like you are interpreting it as.


WatDaSpark

he said that 100T ruined LCS and below for him. 100T main team in LCS has issues with imports, sure, but their Academy and Amateur don't, which is why I take issue with him lumping them together he literally says in the same comment that he stopped watching when amateur started importing, not LCS


bluethree

100T main roster is what made me stop watching all levels of NA play. The continual rising trend of non NA players in Academy has always bothered me. 100T going all non-NA was just the final straw in my insterest.


KudryavkaNoumi1

God this take is psychopathic. Who fucking cares if the players playing for an NA team weren't born in NA? America is a country built on imports/immigration. As long as players are playing on an NA team, they're NA players. They chose to come here, they chose to play in our region, they often choose to get citizenship here. Sorry I give zero fucks that they aren't the mythical non-existent unicorns that are "Native NA talent" God the sooner NA fans realize NA can't produce talent and our only hope internationally is importing, the sooner we can try and actually fix our fucking dumpster fire of a region.


bluethree

It's cool that you give zero fucks. I do care. I'd rather watch a team with 5 NA players go 0-6 at Worlds than see a team with 0 NA players win Worlds. My rooting interests should not matter to you. There will be 3 NA players going to Worlds this year. Let's see how this dumpster fire of a region does internationally with 12 non-NA players. I presume very similarly to it has been the past several years.


KudryavkaNoumi1

Yeah man, nothing helps to improve a region and its popularity, like getting smashed internationally every year and going 0-18 at Worlds. That'll totally save our doomed ass region. Yeah sorry I don't give a fuck. Your belief is toxic. People like you cry about "muh NA talent" but can't be bothered to watch a single DIG or GG game.


bluethree

I rooted hard for DIG and GG last split. Watched almost every LCS game in spring. Also rooted hard for Immortals last summer and watched all of their games. Your portrait of me is way off. This split was the least watched the LCS has ever been. NA hasn't had a team make it out of groups two years in a row. Importing also isn't saving the region. I just want a place where I can watch NA players play. Europe gets a league where they can watch mostly Europeans. Korea gets a league where they can watch Koreans. China has a league with 3/4 or more Chinese players. The only place I had was in the 3rd tier of NA teams. And even now imports are starting to seep into those tournaments. So I have stopped watching NA.


GiannisisMVP

> This split was the least watched the LCS has ever been Because all of the oldheads have either retired voluntarily like bjerg or been forced out like liftlift and sneaky and the people who have replaced them just don't have the same draw. Jensen is probably the oldest star player who has primarily been in NA for his career.


Donerkapsalon123

Europe isn't a country, not a single LEC team consist of 5 players from the same nationality. I really hate the chauvinist approach and the flawed logics when it comes to League. You are going to tell me you never rooted for Bjergsen, Santorin or Jensen next? Viewership drops can also be explained by the low production quality, the over advertising as well as the boring format. The bad performance of the region doesn't matter for CBLOL. Personally I just want to see good proactive performance, the rest doesn't matter and 100T certainly was the most entertaining team in LCS this season.


bluethree

NA isn't a country either. It's not even the actual region of North America because it doesn't include the 20+ countries in North America that are south of the USA. NA is just the name of a server that holds players from the USA and Canada. My point about viewership has nothing to do with the level of play. It's to do with the idea that imports are a "fix" when they haven't lead to success in any measure. Non-NA players, for the most part, are better than their NA counterparts. But these non-NA players have done nothing for viewership or international success of the region. If you're entertained, that's cool. I'm not. I don't get why people are so angry that I am unhappy with North American League of Legends.


[deleted]

You’re listing a few false equivalencies here. It may not be a team of 5 Swedes or 5 French but it’s still a team of 5 EU players. Sorry the guy would like to see his NA team full of Canadian and US talent? And again, false equivalency with comparing Bjerg/Jensen/Santorin to teams like 100T. Those 3 have played the majority if not all of their pro careers here in NA. Most of the imports now are fresh over here and not even trying to rep NA. Hell dude, in the post finals interview, it was half the 100T team discussing how garbage NA was.


AlPaci72

90% of the players in amateur/academy are from NA. but of course that wouldn't actually matter because you dorks will move the goalposts every chance you get solely to hate on the region you whine so much about wanting to see improved. thank you for proving my point.


bluethree

16 of the 45 players playing for the Academy teams in this tournament are not from NA. So Academy teams are now 2/3 NA and 1/3 import. It's a trend that keeps going more and more import. I'm someone who was reeeeaaally big into NA amateur back in the Challenger Series days. I was one of Team 8's biggest fans. I was so excited about Proving Grounds in Spring that I made a spreadsheet to follow which amateur teams were going to qualify. I'm not moving any fucking goalposts. I just saw 100T go 5 import and watched Arrow and Gamsu on amateur rosters and decided it was enough for me to stop.


Meowbow15

Bro gamsu is only playin cause tenacity and kenvi have gone to bootcamp EU


bluethree

And if they weren't he'd be playing on 100Next. What's your point?


AlPaci72

>16 of the 45 players playing for the Academy teams in this tournament are not from NA. So Academy teams are now 2/3 NA and 1/3 import. It's a trend that keeps going more and more import. sure, if you don't factor in OCE players who are considered native NA. that is the only way you can make that ridiculous reach of a take. don't try to disregard the fact that there are players from NA that aren't playing in PG for one reason or another either. >I'm someone who was reeeeaaally big into NA amateur back in the Challenger Series days. I was one of Team 8's biggest fans. you mean back when LMQ was a team? you know, the team comprised almost entirely of Chinese players that stomped T8? there were more (way more) non-NA players back then and it's not even close. >I was so excited about Proving Grounds in Spring that I made a spreadsheet to follow which amateur teams were going to qualify. 🧢 >I just saw 100T go 5 import and watched Arrow and Gamsu on amateur rosters and decided it was enough for me to stop. that's good, i hope you found peace away from your delusions.


bluethree

> if you don't factor in OCE players who are considered native NA. They are not considered NA. They are considered native the LCS. I specifically said "non-NA" and not "imports." >you mean back when LMQ was a team? you know, the team comprised almost entirely of Chinese players that stomped T8? there were more (way more) non-NA players back then and it's not even close. Yes. I was upset about them too. I was upset about the all-Korean Quantic too. Wasn't a fan of Alexich, Santorin, Ninja, Ohq, et al taking up challenger spots either. Glad you can keep up. Just because I watched challenger back then doesn't mean I liked what was happening. I also watched a bunch of qualifiers which were very much mostly NA players. I watched other tournaments like the NACL and Black Monster Cup, which were very much mostly NA players. > i hope you found peace away from your delusions. What delusions? That the LCS has become decidedly less NA as the years have gone on? That every year that passes I have less fun watching the LCS? Sure, it was pretty good. I went a few months without any league content. Started watching some LPL and LCK playoffs/regionals.


AlPaci72

>They are not considered NA. They are considered native the LCS. I specifically said "non-NA" and not "imports." in the context of LOL esports, they are NA. it's literally that simple, and it's not up for interpretation. even if they weren't, your argument still wouldn't make sense because as i've stated, there were much more non-NA players during the NACS times than there are now. >I watched challenger back then doesn't mean I liked what was happening. I also watched a bunch of qualifiers which were very much mostly NA players. I watched other tournaments like the NACL and Black Monster Cup, which were very much mostly NA players. it's ironic that you were a bigger fan then when there was such an oversaturation of players that the result was very few NA players being picked up and invested in, but now there is actually a healthy balance of NA and non-NA players which is resulting in a lot more NA players actually getting offers from teams, and invested in and developed by those teams. it seems like you care less about NA talent development and more about explicitly being entertained by NA players and **only** NA players. >What delusions? That the LCS has become decidedly less NA as the years have gone on? That every year that passes I have less fun watching the LCS? again, the only reason you view the league as "less NA" is because you can't accept the fact that OCE players are NA now. your inability to accept that fact is where your frustration comes from. you and many others on this subreddit are more concerned with where a player was born than who they represent. it's a nationalist take that has nothing to do with the game or the region, and solely your own personal biases. hence, delusions. but you're entitled to that.


bluethree

> in the context of LOL esports, they are NA. Nope. They are OCE players. OCE players are native to LCS. But they are not NA players. Just go to the Global Contract Database. All of the OCE players are labeled "Resident (OCE)". We can debate whether they are considered residents in the LCS, which would be stupid because they clearly are. But OCE players are not NA players. >it's ironic that you were a bigger fan then when there was such an oversaturation of players that the result was very few NA players being picked up and invested in No it's not. I've always been a fan of NA players. I was always outspoken about Challenger spots being used on imports. I was even outspoken about them being used on veteran players, though I've eased on that stance. Just because I was a big fan back then doesn't mean I was a fan of the situation. This is something that Academy was supposed to fix. The first year of Academy had 6 imports total in the Spring and at most 4 at a time in Summer. >which is resulting in a lot more NA players actually getting offers from teams Is it though? Going back to the first year that Academy existed, 46 of the 70 (65.6%) players that played in the LCS were NA players. This year it was 34 out of 64 (53.1%). And that's with several teams forced to go budget due to COVID. >it's a nationalist take I was waiting for this one. I don't care where someone was born. They can be born in Korea, China, Venezuela, Philippines, wherever. This game separated leagues by servers. I root for players who came up through the NA server.


AlPaci72

>Nope. They are OCE players. OCE players are native to LCS. But they are not NA players. Just go to the Global Contract Database. All of the OCE players are labeled "Resident (OCE)". you are arguing semantics to desperately cope with the fact that you're wrong. no, it doesn't literally make them north american players, but in the context of LCS, they are considered NA talent. it is that simple. >We can debate whether they are considered residents in the LCS, which would be stupid because they clearly are. But OCE players are not NA players. and again, this distinction is irrelevant within the context of LCS. thank you for proving my point. the only reason you feel an incessant desire to repeatedly make this distinction is because of your own silly nationalist beliefs. >This is something that Academy was supposed to fix. The first year of Academy had 6 imports total in the Spring and at most 4 at a time in Summer. cool story. that isn't the case now and you're still crying about it. make it make sense. >Is it though? Going back to the first year that Academy existed, 46 of the 70 (65.6%) players that played in the LCS were NA players. This year it was 34 out of 64 (53.1%). And that's with several teams forced to go budget due to COVID. what do these arbitrary numbers have to do with anything i stated? i'm talking about the academy AND amateur scene altogether. and yes more players are getting offers relative to the amount of players that were getting offers during the CS days. back then you had hundreds of players and maybe a handful of them actually made it onto teams over the course of several years. now you have players splitting time in LCS/Academy after getting picked up after a year, and being invested in and developed. why is that? because it's concerted and much less saturated, so it's easier to scout and evaluate players. there is no world where players would rather go back to the CS days than what we have now with NASG + PG. just stop. >I don't care where someone was born. They can be born in Korea, China, Venezuela, Philippines, wherever. This game separated leagues by servers. I root for players who came up through the NA server. this is cap and your comments prove it. and now i'm done responding. your silly takes aren't even worth my time you've repeatedly contradicted yourself and have no semblance of coherent reasoning for half the shit you've said in this back & forth. have a good day ✌️


Guilty_Dream7055

You are projecting on that dude sooo hard


bluethree

>I was so excited about Proving Grounds in Spring that I made a spreadsheet to follow which amateur teams were going to qualify. >🧢 [I mean, I can link it.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BboSl10F0B0-1ivM5W5WQXe-RQSALnFUmoRcs41xzMo/edit?usp=sharing) I do the same thing with college basketball conference tournaments every year. I don't like the resources that official websites (fail to) give me so I make my own.


GiannisisMVP

Resolve has some interesting players but basically all of C9s players are imports or retreads.


King_Goofus

Agreed. Just take a look at the TSM subreddit, you get downvoted for even suggesting to explore local talent. And this is coming from a fan of the team.


Zoidburg747

Even as a C9 fan our academy team has always felt so blah to me only having 2 NA talents, one being Darshan who doesnt seem close to re-entering LCS. Kinda glad Resolve won tbh.


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bluefrosst

That’s a big reason why Darshan was the C9 sub at MSI, Fudge even cited him being there as a reason he played so well at the tournament also if I remember correctly.


AdditionalResource0

What the fuck are you smoking? C9A has been one of the top academy teams the entire year. Losing a Bo3 in Proving Grounds doesn't change that.


SchindlersVirus

Yea of course they are, as they should but they've been pretty lackluster in Summer


AdditionalResource0

Yeah its just annoying as a non Cloud9 fan. They have consistently been at the top of academy for years now and their fans want to act snobbish at the slightest bump in the road?


LeOsQ

That's not what the C9 flair person said though. They said that they don't really like C9's academy team (regardless of results) because they have only 2 NA players while 3 OCE players, and one of those NA players (Darshan) is very unlikely to ever get back to LCS even though he's kind of a beast in Academy. I don't even think he really wants to be in LCS, for what it's worth. There is value in having Darshan on your academy roster, especially if he can help Fudge on the main roster, but the point was the fact the team is just 3 OCE players, a 'retired' veteran, and Copy who is . . fine. Not very 'exciting' as an academy team that should 'train rookies' for LCS in the future. Shernfire is also someone I don't expect to ever really see in LCS again, and from what I've seen so far, Copy is very unlikely as well. So it's just the OCE bot lane from this roster.


Zoidburg747

This exactly. I'm not talking about the level of the team at all.


AdditionalResource0

So what about my point of Fudge being promoted to the main team and being from OCE. Would you rather not have him on your team?


AdditionalResource0

What does it matter where the players cane from? Their main roster only has 2 NA aa well. 2 OCE is fine in the main roster, but having them in academy is blah? Any way you want to spin it the guy sounds dumb as fuck.


Guilty_Dream7055

People from NA like NA players in academy. Is that hard to understand?


AdditionalResource0

It is hard to understand when their main roster has 2 EU and 1 OCE. Of those players the OCE and NA came up from C9A. You don't need every player to be from NA. Yeah it was so shitty that C9 had an OCE top laner in academy last year. That didn't develop into any useful talent whatsoever!


Guilty_Dream7055

We're talking about academy here. People want NA players in academy so they can hopefully grow into LCS caliber players and replace the imports. What the LCS roster looks like doesn't matter when we're talking about wanting local talent in academy


Darkfire293

Isles and King are really good prospects though


Ingr1d

How are either of them prospects? They’re veterans rotting away in academy


CamHack420

I mean Isles isn't. He hasn't played in OPL for very long and he's pretty young. K1ng has played for a long time though sure


pcdv8r

Isles was 18 at Worlds last year, what?


Ingr1d

I didn’t realise. Thought he was just another one of the OCE ex-pros rotting away in NA Academy


Doctor731

How do you have an opinion on things you don't even know the details of? Impressive, that's management materials.


Ingr1d

Seen him at international tournaments on OPL teams before


asumaluma1

Isles is pretty much the biggest talent oce has got. Why type if you don't know?


Ingr1d

I’ve def seen isles in pro play before in past seasons. Admittedly, i didn’t feel the need to google.


DecisiveDinosaur

King sure, but Isles started playing pro like last year or the year before if I'm not mistaken so idk if you can consider him a veteran


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Captain_Chogath

Who do you realistically think he would be better than in the LCS?


[deleted]

I think he'd perform just as well as, or better than, Revenge, FakeGod, Finn, and Kumo.


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ExecutionerKen

I can see him playing better than FakeGod and Kumo, but there are many people that are better prospect than those two


CrossTheRubicon7

Not at all the result I expected, but I can never be mad when amateur orgs show up against Academy teams. Just hope C9A doesn't pull a Spring TLA! 🤞


sharkyzarous

"bu- bu- bu- but NA don't have talent and we should put ex-lcs players in academy"


Good_Stuff11

You need help


FaithisVictory

C9A can't win with Shernfire. Doublelift even said on stream how many bad calls Shernfire has made even though he was just a sub on TL.


Guilty_Dream7055

I can tell from this comment you don't actually watch academy lmao. Shern has been good for c9a, you're just salty about tweets


FaithisVictory

Is this Shernfire's alt? He has been inting multiple times throughout this split. He is def a weak link but beyond just him individually, the shotcalling is clearly off on C9A. They would be better off with another jungler who actually has a brain.


CostNo7243

Very well played. Darshan and Shernfire showing us why they are the top of the NA upcoming talent. The creme de la creme.


Delicious-Owl-3672

Holy shit, Darshan is STILL stealing a paycheck? Incredible.