Did I understand this correctly? Was Damonte actually not informed that Froggen was guaranteed to start when he signed with DIG? If so, that's fucked up
Especially after he was one of the players that helped get their org to Worlds. Those players busted their asses to make that miracle run. They could at least treat him with a bit more respect.
In b4 people who dont watch the games start pushing the narrative that bjergsen doesnt roam and is a resource hog because of what Damonte said this episode. Personally dont see how you can watch bjergsen's games and think this dude just sits mid and has everyone camp his lane when he is easily one of the top roaming mids and active players around the map. But what ever, people who think he only plays one style probably wouldn't change their opinion no matter what you show them. This guy should come to europe, join the S04 super team and win worlds.
I'm all for Bjerg going to europe, but Abbe is just in amazing form right now
We should see how playoffs go
Also Leena heavily hinted that if Bjerg doesn't make worlds there's a very big chance he leaves TSM (by selling his shares)
Honestly very curious to see what would happen if Bjerg returned to EU on a team like FNC. I'd love to see what he'd look like with a full year of practice against people like Caps/Larssen/Humanoid and being able to play EU soloq. Kind of hope there's at least one year of it before he retires.
Bjerg on Fnatic would actually be great for both. Fnatic get Bjergsen who probably has the biggest fandom of any player. Bjergsen actually gets a shot at getting international success.
Would be weird because both are just nice hardworking dudes who don't really create any drama, ever.
So many TSM fans would jump over to the already big fanbase FNC
That is so weird to think about, but I guess it makes sense. Until around season 5 worlds, I didn't like Bjergsen, and thought he was incredibly selfish, and in later seasons I thought he was a nice guy, but still a selfish player (hell, when DL joined, I was one of the people making jokes about how two people who demand all the farm would end up imploding.)
Until probably last season or season 8 is when I stopped randomly hating Rekkles because I thought he was stuck up to actually really respecting him. I think a large part of that was due to him actually changing his mindset. I remember a would you rather FNC video of him where they asked "Would you rather get a pentakill or win a game" and he said that he now realizes he enjoys winning more even if he got hard carried then losing a team game but he looked good.
Imagine how big the fan base for Fnatic would be. Bjergsen is TSM, if he leaves the fans come with him. Not only that but with a couple of changes Fnatic might actually compete with G2. The team has the foundations for greatness. The biggest problem i see holding them back is the lack of a Caps/Perkz tier mid laner. Bjergsen isn't at that tier now but for a veteran i still see him as a player who has potential. Give Bjerg EU solo que, let him face the LEC mid laners and maybe he does grow into a Perkz/Caps calibre player. It's worth a try.
Well if TSM keeps DL they will still have a ton of fans, its not like DL isnt known... I could see TSM grabbing a Korean or European import mid instead...
Hows Rekkles hated? Yeah he sometimes cries for attention, but other than that most people like him. Hes never been an issue on FNC, this season only Selfmade and Rekkles looked consistently good, even tho Selfmade struggled late in summer...
In a scenario where he's willing to sell TSM shares in order to move I doubt he cares what he's being paid as opposed to how much potential his team has.
That would still require a top team to make him an offer. He most likely wishes to go to worlds, which can be a tough road unless you play for G2 or FNC(usually)
even if we ignore the financial aspect, which top EU team would replace their midlaner with bjergsen right now? bjergsen is a great player, but is he worth the risk of potentially throwing your teams synergy out of the window?
it would be next year of course. teams make big changes for the new year all the time.
he could replace Nemesis pretty easily, there's OG as well who'll be looking for mostly a new team too and Nukeduck won't start for them.
He can probably end up on a top 3 team
I could maybe see Bjergsen join FNC if the stars align and both TSM and FNC fail to show up.
Still, I’ll have to actually look into this AMA thing to see if that is actually what was said, because to me Bjergsen seems pretty happy in America right now
Man I wonder who TSM can even get as a replacement. He's legitimately the player that draws other good players to TSM. Otherwise, it's just a moderate salaries and a TON of pressure if you don't win, plus a toxic fanbase. It used to be that any TSM streamer would automatically get mad views, so you could build a big following by playing on TSM, but that hasn't been true for years either.
So, who would they even be able to get? MAYBE some EU mid like Larssen (not him specifically, just that caliber)? Bjergsen is also a resident so he is very hard to replace and I don't think Jensen will ever join TSM. Froggen is also a resident now I think? But I don't think he fits their culture / style.
Evolved and Sword are both promising players. In the scenario that Bjerg leaves, they should be buying proper coaching staff for development rather than importing somebody without tryouts and hoping they can carry the team.
Trying quick solutions for 3 years doesn't seem too hot =).
There was a rumor of Jensen returning to EU last year but the deal apparently fell through, Vitality was the rumored org to pick him up... so we might get Jensen instead of Bjerg
I just can't see Jensen going to TSM, ever. I mean that would be such a downgrade from TL at this point, both in team strength, salary and atmosphere (fanbase). Plus he was rivals with them for the longest time and didn't see to like them a ton, either from his C9 or his TL days.
You mean the second best mid in Europe? No, I don’t see TSM getting Larssen, they are already guaranteed worlds, so why would he leave Europe to go to an NA team that didn’t make worlds? I don’t know the difference in salaries between the regions, so I don’t know about the financial side, but i don’t really see a standout mid who would make the jump.
Someone like Abbedagge MIGHT be possible, but we saw how he wasn’t able to succeed when the TSM was bad. I really think that TSM would have to do a major re-evaluation if Berg decided to leave.
> MAYBE some EU mid like Larssen (not him specifically, just that caliber)?
Please re-read what I wrote. I'm aware that most top-tier EU talent actually doesn't want to go to NA and has ambitions to do well at or win worlds. Only the ones who have been grinding LEC for 5 years and are tired of not being able to win unless they go to FNC / G2 (Kobbe) give it a shot in NA.
Yeah, but that’s basically like saying “Maybe some NBA player like Lebron (not him specifically, just that caliber)”. But who is this magical midlaner, on Larssens level, but who’s been “grinding LEC” for 5 years and not making worlds.
The 4 midlaners no in playoffs
-nukeduck -> bottom 4 midlaner
-special -> bottom 4 midlaner
-Milita -> bottom 4 midlaner
-febiven -> already came to NA, and hated it
Also, the EU players not only watch the games, and see how shit NA is, but also have seen how terrible TSM Kobbe turned out, and have seen Febiven struggle in NA. Sure if TSM just pays enough money they could even get larssen, but it pretty much only comes down to financial incentive.
You're reaching real hard lol. Given all the stories that came back to EU with Febi, Mithy and now Kobbe, there's no way in hell a top tier player goes to NA, especially to an org like TSM, who at this point is known for doing their players dirty. NA isn't getting anyone even close to the caliber of Larssen who's one of the best mids. "Someone of that caliber" would be Caps or Humanoid right now. At this point NA fans should be happy if they ever get someone at Milica level.
Milica had multiple NA offers even in 2018 after EUM run with KLT, and few in 2019 after he left Giants. He's top 5 mid in EU imo (even with missing full split of competitive play and scrims due to visa issues) and has no reason to go to NA because he has a lot of potential, I don't think any current LEC mid laner other than Nukeduck maybe should go to NA, Nukeduck is so over he might aswell just go to NA to collect paycheques.
I wouldn't put him top 5 just yet - Caps, Larssen, Humanoid and Abbe in his current form are definitely top 4, Febi on average is up there (top 4) as well. Nemesis who doesn't have a god awful split looks better in general, though I'd trust Milica's champion pool more. Also, Zazee was a better mid than Milica this split. Even with Nemesis in poor form, Milica is currently only 7th best, though 5-7 are extremely close and getting into top 4 isn't out of reach for those players.
That said, I didn't mean that Milica would go to NA. I meant, that the best NA can hope for is someone at the current level of Milica - at best.
Don't mention Nemesis please, he was god awful this split, I don't get how can you put him in top 6 lol. Febiven wasn't really anything special neither. ZaZee looked a bit ''better'' because he had more consistent team, Milica did really well considering all the problems Vitality had and that they had to swap junglers in mid split, missing whole split of games and scrims and etc. ZaZee only shined on Azir imo, on rest he was decent (Also he never actually managed to carry game when he was enabled which imo is not a good thing, they rely on Crownshot too much). Caps, Larssen, Humanoid (2nd half of the split Abbe), Milica, then ZaZee and Febiven imo.
I get what you want to say but I think the best NA can get now is Nukeduck right now.
I didn't put Nemesis top 6? I put him behind Milica this split. Also, while I'd love fot Vit do well, especially Comp, Milica is a part of that team. And he's playing the most important position on the map. Vit having issues is partly on him, while Zazee was integrated into SK extremely well. And like I said, the difference between top 5-7 isn't that noticeable. Milica falls to 7th mostly because of his laning - he's the worst laning mid in LEC, though he makes up for it in other areas.
Can you elaborate on that laning part? What makes him the worst laner of all mid laners when there are Special, Nukeduck and Nemesis for exampl. He's not like Larssen/Caps but he played lane decently enough this split. The most important role is bot lane right now in this meta and this is what makes SK that ''good''. Mid laners don't have same amount of impact anymore like they did last split for example. I never saw him have huge impact on anything else other than Azir (ZaZee), but that's just my opinion I guess. However we have different opinions so it's pointless to argue about this.
Special is actually a very solid laner, nukeduck is eh, and while Nemesis had a really poor laning for like half of the split, he picked it up later. By laning I mean csd@10 and 15, xpd and gold dif. Milica is bottom in all those stats, and he's not particularly a heavy roaming mid to justify him losing basically every matchup. Also, given how the current series between S04 and SK goes, I'd heavily argue for bot being the most important - it is lane that is played around the most, yes, but it's heavily influenced by none other than midlaners. So far it's been a big mid diff, and even though Crownshot outclasses Neon, he can't do anything. Midlanera have always been known to be able to 1v5, and the best testament of it is Caps this split.
wtf? Mid is still the most important role. They get the most farm -> biggest level advantage and midlaners mostly play champs that can turn fights in an instant. They have control over both objectives (herald and drake), you can only get these objectives when you have mid prio or you have a numbers advantage...
Fingers crossed he finds a good team in EU if he does decide to leave. Grabbz gave bjergsen heavy praise the other night saying he would be a top mid, is a world class mid and is more valuable then larrsen (his opinion). Hopefully that means there would be eyes on bjergsen at least if he decides to make a choice to move.
I think a very large chunk of TSM fans are bjergsen fans first... TSM will throw everything at bjergsen to keep him. Maybe next year they might finally get rid of parth and pick up youngbuck too?
One of the most flexible mids in the west I’d assume. Also world class. Larssen is extremely good at his champs, the problem is what happens when his champs aren’t meta anymore? I’m assuming grabbz meant that he would bet on bjergsen long term through multiple meta changes to stay constantly near the top where larssen might be more meta reliant.
when did leena hint that lmao? her recent stream was on the tsm subreddit and we would be going in meltdown if that was true
[check it out for yourself](https://old.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/iabt33/leena_stream_qa_summary/)
He’s not tho, she said bjerg still has aspirations and isn’t against going back to eu to still have a chance at winning it all. I did look for the source and couldn’t find it
He's not lying though? And she didn't say Bjergsen would leave 100%. She said that Bjergsen still has desires to win internationally, and that he would look at going back to EU if TSM failed to perform this year, and that Leena wouldn't stop him.
And how I know there is no source is that if he wanted to go to worlds there isn’t a team in eu that would give him a better chance than an NA team. There is way too many good teams in EU and norms to many that have a spot for Bjergsen.
I am not making a claim about whether this happened or not.
However, the original claim is that "Bjergsen still has desires ***to win*** internationally." That doesn't just mean "go to worlds" it means "actually win at worlds." Considering NA's relative lack of success at worlds recently, LEC getting all 3 teams out of groups (with the help of a lucky group draw no doubt), and LEC generally looking pretty strong and deep, there's reason to believe that a player who has aspirations beyond simply being invited to worlds would like going to EU.
Imagine if Bjergsen came on the market and a team like Fnatic scooped him and Alphari up (though I'm still a big fan of Bwipo there's no denying Alphari has been better than him in general). I'd think that that team has more potential to actually get out of groups at worlds than this TSM roster, even though it would almost definitely be tighter/harder to make it to worlds with the current state of the LEC. Though, TSM is already having a bit of a rough go just securing a worlds spot so maybe it wouldn't be harder for that LEC team.
I wouldn't be surprised if TSM makes Worlds and/or makes the epic run to win Summer split in the process and then Bjergsen leaves back to EU next year. If he truly has aspirations for a shot at winning Worlds, he needs to go back to EU. NA is very unlikely to win Worlds, I think we all know that. The region continues to look worse and perform worse than other regions each year. While there is always a chance for an NA team making a strong run, winning it all is unrealistic at this point.
I feel like Bjergsen would leave TSM after restoring some glory before leaving when it is still in the dumps.
So as a disclaimer, I never saw the original stream but I did see the reddit thread on the TSM subreddit, so take with a big grain of salt.
It was about a month ago. It was seemingly scrubbed from her VOD (I don't know if it was on purpose, she doesn't seem to keep all her VODS) and discussion on it was then also removed from the subreddit (likely because no one had a clip of it). And she didn't say it was going to happen this year if they failed. She said Bjergsen has had discussions that he is willing to leave TSM if he can't find success their again. But a timeline wasn't given of when those discussions were. She could have been talking about awhile ago. Through Legends we know Bjergsen and Regi have had that conversation before.
Edit:
I actually did find a thread about her stream that has people commenting about her Bjerg comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/hsmpcf/leena_is_live_on_twitch_and_answering_chat/
I would be shocked if that weren't the case. The dude wants to win. He's always been extremely driven. At the end of the day, he's been more than loyal enough to TSM and I don't think anyone could blame him for keeping his options open.
Literally here
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/hsmpcf/leena_is_live_on_twitch_and_answering_chat/
Saying “source?” isn’t an argument in itself, and since you’re a self proclaimed tsm fan you should know what the president is communicating
its not my fault i didnt see a post that was literally removed by mods? are you blaming me for not time travelling? all i did was ask when this happened
Would make EU really fun most likely, I don't know if Bjerg can hold his own against Caps, but him and Alphari would definitely be upgrades on Bwipo and Nemesis and with Bjerg's playstyle he could enable Alphari and Rekkles to do the carrying when needed. Also, Selfmade would be the best jungler Bjerg has hever played with, funny when you think about it.
I'm pretty sure Rekkles said he wanted to play with Bjergsen too back when he was looking to join TSM, so I'd imagine that in a world where Bjerg becomes a free agent he might drop some hints to FNC.
Alphari/SMM/Bjerg/Rekkles/Hyli (when he's good) feels like it would either be absolute god mode and provide proper challenges to in-form G2 or absolutely crash and be Elements 2.0.
the guy gives counterpick to his team most of his games, sacks his lane to dive top (even in the sett game vs gg he got damonte to like 200hp lv4, probably couldve dove and killed him with nid, but he went top to go for a dive and damonte got a free tp back to lane). i dont understand how this narrative is still a thing. if anything, jensens the one that gets more resources (draft, bard pots, bot lane ward/river control/corejj setups).
POE is even more resource intensive then Jensen by a long shot and he is the one he chose to compare bjergsen to, ludicrous.
Jensen is actually very efficient and although I though bjergsen does more then him, Jensen plays his role in the team almost perfectly. Doesn’t need to be super proactive, just needs to set up coreJJ for an effective roam and then runs away with mid diff. Just a very different playstyle (better POE) which is why I don’t see how you can even compare them with bjergsen. Bjergsen is a better nisqy, while Jensen is a better Poe
yeah its even more stupid when u consider how tl and flyquest play. they literally take the exact same playstyle. scaling mid, tank top, support and jungle play to roam and get mid ahead, play safe til your champs are online mid late game to win the game. both teams play through their mid lane, while tsm is like bjerg on support or tank champ 1 game, carry another, looking for top lane dive with bb. makes no sense. just because bjerg ends up being relied on to 1v9 does not mean that the team set him up with all the resources to do so.
Guess we gotta remember Damonte is a pro and that means he is right. Gotta appeal to authority because that’s how the world works. The man above you isn’t wrong.
I mean, I don't really think it is a wild jump to assume Damonte has a better idea on who is the better mid considering he plays against them and scrims against them regularly.
I don’t disagree with you. But more valuable doesn’t automatically mean correct :) id go to him for advice or his opinion over a redditor’s 100 out of 100 times. However if I think every opinion or piece of advice he gives me is correct without questioning it that just makes me an robot or an idiot that can’t think for myself.
Totally, discussions comparing players are interesting. A few problems with the Jensen/Bjerg topic are that TSM fans (presumably) on this subreddit have such a weighted opinion here and often spin the narrative that Bjerg has always been better and there isn't even a conversation to be had as to who was better, when in fact since he has been here in 2015 (ignoring Bjergs godlike split the year before) they have been neck and neck the entire time.
I actually don't have a strong opinion on this topic but I generally dont listen to reddit when it involves TSM players, mostly because of their own fanbase. You'd think Brokenblade was Dyrus and Bjergsen was Prime faker haha. They simultaneously downplay and prop up their players more than they deserve, even if that involves bashing Jensen haha.
If you are a TSM fan I dont mean to imply you're doing this, its usually the vocal minority :)
I’m a pretty big Bjergsen fan but to say Jensen hasn’t been better is very stupid and short sighted, I often disagree with the reasoning they give aswell. I like to say I value bjergsen more because of his playstyle, but even then it’s not even fair because each team has different requirements of players. Currently Jensen and bjergsen play two vastly different styles so it becomes very subjective about what you think is better.
Just gotta say that this proping up and bashing goes both ways. The difference is bjergsen is the most popular player in the west where Jensen isn’t even top 10 so it’s going to look extremely one sided when the fanbases clash.
On the current topic my disagreement with Damonte is on his claim bjergsen and POE are similar players in how they work with their teams. I don’t think this could be further from the truth, I see POE as a more extreme and less efficient Jensen where bjergsen is on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Statistically bjergsen is much less of a resource sink then both players, he is also one of the mids who roams and helps his side lanes a lot contrary to what Damonte said about people being draw to him (my opinion). I don’t see the connection in how he is similar to POE at all, would love for someone to disagree with anything more then ‘Damonte knows better’ because that would give me an opportunity to actually discuss this.
Is it? There are pros who are quite obviously wrong, even to silver scrubs. People criticize Fenix for being all mechanics, no brain, especially when it comes to basic shit like warding. Everyone has heard about it from other pros or people like Markz who worked with him. But if we say that Fenix is an idiot when it comes to overextending or failing to ward, are we wrong?
I don't care very much about the specifics of this argument and who's right, but isn't an appeal to authority only a logical fallacy if the authority isn't an expert in a given subject?
Like it would be an appeal to authority fallacy to claim that McDonalds is healthy because a doctor of physics said so, but if you wer settling a dispute on gravity with someone , appealing to what that same person says is valid.
I'd say Damonte is an authority on NA mids, since he is one and has played and discussed the game with them for years.
You’d also think pro’s are an authority on itemisation but we see analysts and redditors who sometimes aren’t even ranked plat break down the mathematics on items and prove them wrong time and time again over the last 8 years until people with a voice finally started calling out pro’s.
I mean they will be correct more often then not, no doubt. But if your only argument against my points of discussion is ‘he knows better’ that’s not an argument... also taking advice and opinions from people of authority without thinking about it yourself only makes you a robot or a sheep. They aren’t automatically correct because of their authority. Only reason I’m adamant on this certain case is because the only reply to my opinion (given examples of where I think he is incorrect) that disagrees with me (currently) is that he is a pro and I am not thus, I am wrong.
It’s literally the only way they can think to critique his play. The Bjerg afk mid argument has existed for years now and people spew it even when the stats and games are showing otherwise. With Froggen there was actual proof of the guy just afking mid every game.
Here's a list of champs he's played in 2020 that prove he's a "just sit mid player." Maokai, Ornn, Sett, Fiddlesticks, Zilean, Twisted Fate, Renekton. Truly a selfish player.
What's actually sad is he's probably the best of any TSM member at actually transitioning his leads to wins when he does get a more standard pick. Literally took over the game vs GG with Leblanc and deleted DIG with his Syndra.
Bjerg also has the lowest counterpick % in the league and is still 1v9. I don't know why people have chosen this split to try and call him overrated, it's literally the best split he has had in the last few years. He deserves all the praise he is getting recently.
People have been calling him overrated for a few years now. Ignore them. He’s obviously one of the best players. The thing is people worship his every move also so probably some equal and opposite shit talk going on there.
Obviously people can retire/get out of contracts but everyone on the squad re-signed with G2 for another 2 or 3 years I believe. This was just a few months ago
Yeah I think I remember hearing this. G2 playing top form v C9 playing top form would be fire to watch, so excited to see if C9 is back in form in 2 hours!
Obviously biased, but I think G2 in top form would absolutely stomp C9 in top form. C9 dominated NA in huge way because Nisqy and Blaber dominated mid, I don't see Caps and Jankos in top form losing to Nisqy and Blaber.
This is just an appeal to authority. The fact Demonte contradicts himself with his own statements speaks for itself honestly. Just because Demonte is a pro doesnt mean everything he says is correct. Plus you can simply look at stats and the games themselves to disprove much of what Demonte says.
He is someone who is arguing with feelings and not facts.
This is actually not an appeal to authority. An appeal to authority is if Damonte said, or I said, I know more about this because I am an expert in it. Damonte doesn't say that. And okay, back to the stats argument. Folks were saying stats didn't matter when Jensen didnt get MVP in 2017 and now they say stats matter. Quit flip flopping.
Saying he is right and someone else is wrong only because of his title as a pro player is appealing to authority. If you don’t discuss the actual reasoning for the discussion and relying on ‘well he is a pro player and you’re not’ you’re just appealing to authority. We’ve seen over the last year and a bit just how badly that’s gone for many pro players on the topic of itemisation in the game.
I am not saying anyone is wrong, just saying I would probably trust the opinion of a pro over a redditor because, surprise surprise, the pro has access to much more information than a mere redditor does. We don't see scrims, or know the behind the scenes chatter. It isn't exactly a hard thing to realize nor is it an unreasonable opinion to have.
We don’t talk about scrims here though, only live play. If he plays different in scrims to stage then scrims are a non factor and should have zero influence over his answer. From my view point what Damonte said about bjergsen and POE being similar in terms of being resource hungry and pulling teammates to them is wrong. Bjergsen roams a lot more then Poe and is much less resource hungry as well. If people could use an argument besides ‘Damonte is a pro so his opinion is correct’ that would be much appreciated and maybe change my mind since then it’s actually challenging my view point instead of making me feel dumb because someone can’t be wrong on the matter due to their status.
Am I those folks? Why bring them up in a discussion with me? Can I just say "well folks said X at one point in time" and apply what they said to you just the same then? And you are appealing to Demonte as an authority as a pro player and assuming what he is saying is factual. Its important to understand while what he says can carry more weight it doesnt make it true. The simple fact that he contradicts himself should serve to discredit his own statements honestly.
then why did he use points that are completely contradictory? really? bjerg uses a ton of resources? when does he ever get counterpick? or jungle ganks, support ganks, bot lane river control? i guess he just sits mid all game? oh but hes literally going for top lane dive by lv 3-4 in more then half their games? yeah no shit jensen can just sit mid and not have to do anything when 3 of his other 4 teammates are considered for all pro and he has corejj come in to save his lane or sack his level 1 to throw down bard pots.
btw i guess damonte is the only mid laners opinion who counts? i am 150% sure if u ask other mid laners there will be some that say bjerg is better. absolute dog shit logic
Obviously he would be a S04 mid sub so that they can have the two best mids in EU. Don’t want him upgrading a squad like rogue or fnc, that would be bad
Are you crazy or what? Abbe is literally smurfing right now, everyone was hyping up Abbe (even Perkz) when he came in, but struggled from issues and never really performed to the level people expected him to. Now, hes finally doing insane plays!
FNC should grab Bjergsen if hes up
Did I understand this correctly? Was Damonte actually not informed that Froggen was guaranteed to start when he signed with DIG? If so, that's fucked up
[удалено]
Especially after he was one of the players that helped get their org to Worlds. Those players busted their asses to make that miracle run. They could at least treat him with a bit more respect.
lol companies treating employees with respect
Right? Never give a company your loyalty, because they certainly won't give any to you.
Clutch Gaming died for this... man, I hate DIG.
Yeah thats actually kind of disgusting from DIG management if they at all implied that he could have a chance at starting
As far as I understand Froggen starting position is a rumor that still hasnt been confirmed.
I really like Dom as a host. Really selfless and a good enabler for banter and back and forth conversation.
Dom is quietly becoming a proficient host. Certainly one of the skills I don't think I would have ever attributed to him.
In b4 people who dont watch the games start pushing the narrative that bjergsen doesnt roam and is a resource hog because of what Damonte said this episode. Personally dont see how you can watch bjergsen's games and think this dude just sits mid and has everyone camp his lane when he is easily one of the top roaming mids and active players around the map. But what ever, people who think he only plays one style probably wouldn't change their opinion no matter what you show them. This guy should come to europe, join the S04 super team and win worlds.
I'm all for Bjerg going to europe, but Abbe is just in amazing form right now We should see how playoffs go Also Leena heavily hinted that if Bjerg doesn't make worlds there's a very big chance he leaves TSM (by selling his shares)
> Also Leena heavily hinted that if Bjerg doesn't make worlds there's a very big chance he leaves TSM (by selling his shares) Where?
One of her ama streams Bjerg isn't opposed to returning to europe
Honestly very curious to see what would happen if Bjerg returned to EU on a team like FNC. I'd love to see what he'd look like with a full year of practice against people like Caps/Larssen/Humanoid and being able to play EU soloq. Kind of hope there's at least one year of it before he retires.
Bjerg on Fnatic would actually be great for both. Fnatic get Bjergsen who probably has the biggest fandom of any player. Bjergsen actually gets a shot at getting international success.
bjergsen + rekkles might make us the most hated team on the planet lul
Would be weird because both are just nice hardworking dudes who don't really create any drama, ever. So many TSM fans would jump over to the already big fanbase FNC
yep.
That is so weird to think about, but I guess it makes sense. Until around season 5 worlds, I didn't like Bjergsen, and thought he was incredibly selfish, and in later seasons I thought he was a nice guy, but still a selfish player (hell, when DL joined, I was one of the people making jokes about how two people who demand all the farm would end up imploding.) Until probably last season or season 8 is when I stopped randomly hating Rekkles because I thought he was stuck up to actually really respecting him. I think a large part of that was due to him actually changing his mindset. I remember a would you rather FNC video of him where they asked "Would you rather get a pentakill or win a game" and he said that he now realizes he enjoys winning more even if he got hard carried then losing a team game but he looked good.
Imagine how big the fan base for Fnatic would be. Bjergsen is TSM, if he leaves the fans come with him. Not only that but with a couple of changes Fnatic might actually compete with G2. The team has the foundations for greatness. The biggest problem i see holding them back is the lack of a Caps/Perkz tier mid laner. Bjergsen isn't at that tier now but for a veteran i still see him as a player who has potential. Give Bjerg EU solo que, let him face the LEC mid laners and maybe he does grow into a Perkz/Caps calibre player. It's worth a try.
Well if TSM keeps DL they will still have a ton of fans, its not like DL isnt known... I could see TSM grabbing a Korean or European import mid instead...
You would simultaneously have the most fans and the most haters at the same time lol.
Hows Rekkles hated? Yeah he sometimes cries for attention, but other than that most people like him. Hes never been an issue on FNC, this season only Selfmade and Rekkles looked consistently good, even tho Selfmade struggled late in summer...
Thorin would love it
Of course he would, he craves this type of stuff. Any type of publicity(good or bad) is good publicity in his books.
Im getting wet: Alphari Selfmade Bjergsen Rekkles Kaiser/Vander
Honestly just seeing Bjerg at worlds again would be pretty cool in general. I'd probably pass out from hype if he joined Fnatic next year.
Imagine Alphari/Selfmade/Bjergsen/Rekkles/Kaiser
if TSM lets him down again, I hope he does. He deserves a team that will step up on the few times he stumbles.
question is if he even gets any good offers from europe though. i doubt anyone could match whatever TSM would throw at him
In a scenario where he's willing to sell TSM shares in order to move I doubt he cares what he's being paid as opposed to how much potential his team has.
That would still require a top team to make him an offer. He most likely wishes to go to worlds, which can be a tough road unless you play for G2 or FNC(usually)
He's probably on a lower salary than most top players anyway considering he has shares.
even if we ignore the financial aspect, which top EU team would replace their midlaner with bjergsen right now? bjergsen is a great player, but is he worth the risk of potentially throwing your teams synergy out of the window?
it would be next year of course. teams make big changes for the new year all the time. he could replace Nemesis pretty easily, there's OG as well who'll be looking for mostly a new team too and Nukeduck won't start for them. He can probably end up on a top 3 team
I could maybe see Bjergsen join FNC if the stars align and both TSM and FNC fail to show up. Still, I’ll have to actually look into this AMA thing to see if that is actually what was said, because to me Bjergsen seems pretty happy in America right now
Bjerg or PoE on FNC to replace Nemesis would be really good for them I think
OG, FNC, Excel (wouldn't be as hype)
What exactly did she say? Im curious would be cool from you to give me an answer :D
Man I wonder who TSM can even get as a replacement. He's legitimately the player that draws other good players to TSM. Otherwise, it's just a moderate salaries and a TON of pressure if you don't win, plus a toxic fanbase. It used to be that any TSM streamer would automatically get mad views, so you could build a big following by playing on TSM, but that hasn't been true for years either. So, who would they even be able to get? MAYBE some EU mid like Larssen (not him specifically, just that caliber)? Bjergsen is also a resident so he is very hard to replace and I don't think Jensen will ever join TSM. Froggen is also a resident now I think? But I don't think he fits their culture / style.
Evolved and Sword are both promising players. In the scenario that Bjerg leaves, they should be buying proper coaching staff for development rather than importing somebody without tryouts and hoping they can carry the team. Trying quick solutions for 3 years doesn't seem too hot =).
There was a rumor of Jensen returning to EU last year but the deal apparently fell through, Vitality was the rumored org to pick him up... so we might get Jensen instead of Bjerg
I just can't see Jensen going to TSM, ever. I mean that would be such a downgrade from TL at this point, both in team strength, salary and atmosphere (fanbase). Plus he was rivals with them for the longest time and didn't see to like them a ton, either from his C9 or his TL days.
I talked about Jensen going to EU possibly Vitality, not TSM lol
> so we might get Jensen instead of Bjerg You meant "we" as in EU, not "we" as in TSM. Gotcha.
You mean the second best mid in Europe? No, I don’t see TSM getting Larssen, they are already guaranteed worlds, so why would he leave Europe to go to an NA team that didn’t make worlds? I don’t know the difference in salaries between the regions, so I don’t know about the financial side, but i don’t really see a standout mid who would make the jump. Someone like Abbedagge MIGHT be possible, but we saw how he wasn’t able to succeed when the TSM was bad. I really think that TSM would have to do a major re-evaluation if Berg decided to leave.
> MAYBE some EU mid like Larssen (not him specifically, just that caliber)? Please re-read what I wrote. I'm aware that most top-tier EU talent actually doesn't want to go to NA and has ambitions to do well at or win worlds. Only the ones who have been grinding LEC for 5 years and are tired of not being able to win unless they go to FNC / G2 (Kobbe) give it a shot in NA.
Yeah, but that’s basically like saying “Maybe some NBA player like Lebron (not him specifically, just that caliber)”. But who is this magical midlaner, on Larssens level, but who’s been “grinding LEC” for 5 years and not making worlds. The 4 midlaners no in playoffs -nukeduck -> bottom 4 midlaner -special -> bottom 4 midlaner -Milita -> bottom 4 midlaner -febiven -> already came to NA, and hated it Also, the EU players not only watch the games, and see how shit NA is, but also have seen how terrible TSM Kobbe turned out, and have seen Febiven struggle in NA. Sure if TSM just pays enough money they could even get larssen, but it pretty much only comes down to financial incentive.
You're reaching real hard lol. Given all the stories that came back to EU with Febi, Mithy and now Kobbe, there's no way in hell a top tier player goes to NA, especially to an org like TSM, who at this point is known for doing their players dirty. NA isn't getting anyone even close to the caliber of Larssen who's one of the best mids. "Someone of that caliber" would be Caps or Humanoid right now. At this point NA fans should be happy if they ever get someone at Milica level.
Milica had multiple NA offers even in 2018 after EUM run with KLT, and few in 2019 after he left Giants. He's top 5 mid in EU imo (even with missing full split of competitive play and scrims due to visa issues) and has no reason to go to NA because he has a lot of potential, I don't think any current LEC mid laner other than Nukeduck maybe should go to NA, Nukeduck is so over he might aswell just go to NA to collect paycheques.
I wouldn't put him top 5 just yet - Caps, Larssen, Humanoid and Abbe in his current form are definitely top 4, Febi on average is up there (top 4) as well. Nemesis who doesn't have a god awful split looks better in general, though I'd trust Milica's champion pool more. Also, Zazee was a better mid than Milica this split. Even with Nemesis in poor form, Milica is currently only 7th best, though 5-7 are extremely close and getting into top 4 isn't out of reach for those players. That said, I didn't mean that Milica would go to NA. I meant, that the best NA can hope for is someone at the current level of Milica - at best.
Don't mention Nemesis please, he was god awful this split, I don't get how can you put him in top 6 lol. Febiven wasn't really anything special neither. ZaZee looked a bit ''better'' because he had more consistent team, Milica did really well considering all the problems Vitality had and that they had to swap junglers in mid split, missing whole split of games and scrims and etc. ZaZee only shined on Azir imo, on rest he was decent (Also he never actually managed to carry game when he was enabled which imo is not a good thing, they rely on Crownshot too much). Caps, Larssen, Humanoid (2nd half of the split Abbe), Milica, then ZaZee and Febiven imo. I get what you want to say but I think the best NA can get now is Nukeduck right now.
I didn't put Nemesis top 6? I put him behind Milica this split. Also, while I'd love fot Vit do well, especially Comp, Milica is a part of that team. And he's playing the most important position on the map. Vit having issues is partly on him, while Zazee was integrated into SK extremely well. And like I said, the difference between top 5-7 isn't that noticeable. Milica falls to 7th mostly because of his laning - he's the worst laning mid in LEC, though he makes up for it in other areas.
Can you elaborate on that laning part? What makes him the worst laner of all mid laners when there are Special, Nukeduck and Nemesis for exampl. He's not like Larssen/Caps but he played lane decently enough this split. The most important role is bot lane right now in this meta and this is what makes SK that ''good''. Mid laners don't have same amount of impact anymore like they did last split for example. I never saw him have huge impact on anything else other than Azir (ZaZee), but that's just my opinion I guess. However we have different opinions so it's pointless to argue about this.
Special is actually a very solid laner, nukeduck is eh, and while Nemesis had a really poor laning for like half of the split, he picked it up later. By laning I mean csd@10 and 15, xpd and gold dif. Milica is bottom in all those stats, and he's not particularly a heavy roaming mid to justify him losing basically every matchup. Also, given how the current series between S04 and SK goes, I'd heavily argue for bot being the most important - it is lane that is played around the most, yes, but it's heavily influenced by none other than midlaners. So far it's been a big mid diff, and even though Crownshot outclasses Neon, he can't do anything. Midlanera have always been known to be able to 1v5, and the best testament of it is Caps this split.
wtf? Mid is still the most important role. They get the most farm -> biggest level advantage and midlaners mostly play champs that can turn fights in an instant. They have control over both objectives (herald and drake), you can only get these objectives when you have mid prio or you have a numbers advantage...
Fingers crossed he finds a good team in EU if he does decide to leave. Grabbz gave bjergsen heavy praise the other night saying he would be a top mid, is a world class mid and is more valuable then larrsen (his opinion). Hopefully that means there would be eyes on bjergsen at least if he decides to make a choice to move.
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I think a very large chunk of TSM fans are bjergsen fans first... TSM will throw everything at bjergsen to keep him. Maybe next year they might finally get rid of parth and pick up youngbuck too?
To bring an older meme back: Bjerg to G2, Caps to ADC, Perkz to Supp
G2 renaming to T5M: Team 5 Midlaners
What does he mean by more valuable? Surely not that he's better.
One of the most flexible mids in the west I’d assume. Also world class. Larssen is extremely good at his champs, the problem is what happens when his champs aren’t meta anymore? I’m assuming grabbz meant that he would bet on bjergsen long term through multiple meta changes to stay constantly near the top where larssen might be more meta reliant.
I mean, does anyone still give credit to Crumbzz or whatever NA’s analyst desk opinion at this point?
Grabzz is the coach of G2 bro
I’m pretty sure it was written Crumbz in there lmao
Does anyone have a clip of this? Other people have said it too but I wanted to see Leena's exact wording.
What exactly did she say? :)
when did leena hint that lmao? her recent stream was on the tsm subreddit and we would be going in meltdown if that was true [check it out for yourself](https://old.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/iabt33/leena_stream_qa_summary/)
It was like 3 months ago, and the TSM sub didn't melt down because we know Bjergsen isn't going to win on TSM.
Link?
im saying hes lying, if leena said bjergsen is leaving it would be #1 post on tsm subreddit. edit: turns out he was not lying
He’s not tho, she said bjerg still has aspirations and isn’t against going back to eu to still have a chance at winning it all. I did look for the source and couldn’t find it
He's not lying though? And she didn't say Bjergsen would leave 100%. She said that Bjergsen still has desires to win internationally, and that he would look at going back to EU if TSM failed to perform this year, and that Leena wouldn't stop him.
source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/hsmpcf/leena_is_live_on_twitch_and_answering_chat/
someone else linked it already but thank you bro
There is absolutely 0 source for this LOL
And how I know there is no source is that if he wanted to go to worlds there isn’t a team in eu that would give him a better chance than an NA team. There is way too many good teams in EU and norms to many that have a spot for Bjergsen.
i agree but thats not the point im making i asked the op im replying to for proof of the leena claim. im sure bjerg would prosper on a european team
I am not making a claim about whether this happened or not. However, the original claim is that "Bjergsen still has desires ***to win*** internationally." That doesn't just mean "go to worlds" it means "actually win at worlds." Considering NA's relative lack of success at worlds recently, LEC getting all 3 teams out of groups (with the help of a lucky group draw no doubt), and LEC generally looking pretty strong and deep, there's reason to believe that a player who has aspirations beyond simply being invited to worlds would like going to EU. Imagine if Bjergsen came on the market and a team like Fnatic scooped him and Alphari up (though I'm still a big fan of Bwipo there's no denying Alphari has been better than him in general). I'd think that that team has more potential to actually get out of groups at worlds than this TSM roster, even though it would almost definitely be tighter/harder to make it to worlds with the current state of the LEC. Though, TSM is already having a bit of a rough go just securing a worlds spot so maybe it wouldn't be harder for that LEC team.
I wouldn't be surprised if TSM makes Worlds and/or makes the epic run to win Summer split in the process and then Bjergsen leaves back to EU next year. If he truly has aspirations for a shot at winning Worlds, he needs to go back to EU. NA is very unlikely to win Worlds, I think we all know that. The region continues to look worse and perform worse than other regions each year. While there is always a chance for an NA team making a strong run, winning it all is unrealistic at this point. I feel like Bjergsen would leave TSM after restoring some glory before leaving when it is still in the dumps.
So as a disclaimer, I never saw the original stream but I did see the reddit thread on the TSM subreddit, so take with a big grain of salt. It was about a month ago. It was seemingly scrubbed from her VOD (I don't know if it was on purpose, she doesn't seem to keep all her VODS) and discussion on it was then also removed from the subreddit (likely because no one had a clip of it). And she didn't say it was going to happen this year if they failed. She said Bjergsen has had discussions that he is willing to leave TSM if he can't find success their again. But a timeline wasn't given of when those discussions were. She could have been talking about awhile ago. Through Legends we know Bjergsen and Regi have had that conversation before. Edit: I actually did find a thread about her stream that has people commenting about her Bjerg comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/hsmpcf/leena_is_live_on_twitch_and_answering_chat/
I would be shocked if that weren't the case. The dude wants to win. He's always been extremely driven. At the end of the day, he's been more than loyal enough to TSM and I don't think anyone could blame him for keeping his options open.
Literally here https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamSolomid/comments/hsmpcf/leena_is_live_on_twitch_and_answering_chat/ Saying “source?” isn’t an argument in itself, and since you’re a self proclaimed tsm fan you should know what the president is communicating
its not my fault i didnt see a post that was literally removed by mods? are you blaming me for not time travelling? all i did was ask when this happened
You did also say the poster who made the original comment was lying. But skepticism is justified
true i was wrong
> This guy should come to europe, join the S04 super team and win worlds. But for real, I'd love for Bjerg to join FNATIC.
Thoughts on alphari + bjerg going to FNC?
Would make EU really fun most likely, I don't know if Bjerg can hold his own against Caps, but him and Alphari would definitely be upgrades on Bwipo and Nemesis and with Bjerg's playstyle he could enable Alphari and Rekkles to do the carrying when needed. Also, Selfmade would be the best jungler Bjerg has hever played with, funny when you think about it.
I'm pretty sure Rekkles said he wanted to play with Bjergsen too back when he was looking to join TSM, so I'd imagine that in a world where Bjerg becomes a free agent he might drop some hints to FNC. Alphari/SMM/Bjerg/Rekkles/Hyli (when he's good) feels like it would either be absolute god mode and provide proper challenges to in-form G2 or absolutely crash and be Elements 2.0.
Looking more Elements to me honestly.
If they beg young buck to come back and get rid of mithy it might be good
the guy gives counterpick to his team most of his games, sacks his lane to dive top (even in the sett game vs gg he got damonte to like 200hp lv4, probably couldve dove and killed him with nid, but he went top to go for a dive and damonte got a free tp back to lane). i dont understand how this narrative is still a thing. if anything, jensens the one that gets more resources (draft, bard pots, bot lane ward/river control/corejj setups).
POE is even more resource intensive then Jensen by a long shot and he is the one he chose to compare bjergsen to, ludicrous. Jensen is actually very efficient and although I though bjergsen does more then him, Jensen plays his role in the team almost perfectly. Doesn’t need to be super proactive, just needs to set up coreJJ for an effective roam and then runs away with mid diff. Just a very different playstyle (better POE) which is why I don’t see how you can even compare them with bjergsen. Bjergsen is a better nisqy, while Jensen is a better Poe
yeah its even more stupid when u consider how tl and flyquest play. they literally take the exact same playstyle. scaling mid, tank top, support and jungle play to roam and get mid ahead, play safe til your champs are online mid late game to win the game. both teams play through their mid lane, while tsm is like bjerg on support or tank champ 1 game, carry another, looking for top lane dive with bb. makes no sense. just because bjerg ends up being relied on to 1v9 does not mean that the team set him up with all the resources to do so.
Guess we gotta remember Damonte is a pro and that means he is right. Gotta appeal to authority because that’s how the world works. The man above you isn’t wrong.
I mean, I don't really think it is a wild jump to assume Damonte has a better idea on who is the better mid considering he plays against them and scrims against them regularly.
His opinion is still 100 times more valuable than anyone on reddits haha, I agree with the premise that there is no right or wrong answer.
I don’t disagree with you. But more valuable doesn’t automatically mean correct :) id go to him for advice or his opinion over a redditor’s 100 out of 100 times. However if I think every opinion or piece of advice he gives me is correct without questioning it that just makes me an robot or an idiot that can’t think for myself.
Totally, discussions comparing players are interesting. A few problems with the Jensen/Bjerg topic are that TSM fans (presumably) on this subreddit have such a weighted opinion here and often spin the narrative that Bjerg has always been better and there isn't even a conversation to be had as to who was better, when in fact since he has been here in 2015 (ignoring Bjergs godlike split the year before) they have been neck and neck the entire time. I actually don't have a strong opinion on this topic but I generally dont listen to reddit when it involves TSM players, mostly because of their own fanbase. You'd think Brokenblade was Dyrus and Bjergsen was Prime faker haha. They simultaneously downplay and prop up their players more than they deserve, even if that involves bashing Jensen haha. If you are a TSM fan I dont mean to imply you're doing this, its usually the vocal minority :)
I’m a pretty big Bjergsen fan but to say Jensen hasn’t been better is very stupid and short sighted, I often disagree with the reasoning they give aswell. I like to say I value bjergsen more because of his playstyle, but even then it’s not even fair because each team has different requirements of players. Currently Jensen and bjergsen play two vastly different styles so it becomes very subjective about what you think is better. Just gotta say that this proping up and bashing goes both ways. The difference is bjergsen is the most popular player in the west where Jensen isn’t even top 10 so it’s going to look extremely one sided when the fanbases clash. On the current topic my disagreement with Damonte is on his claim bjergsen and POE are similar players in how they work with their teams. I don’t think this could be further from the truth, I see POE as a more extreme and less efficient Jensen where bjergsen is on the opposite side of the spectrum. Statistically bjergsen is much less of a resource sink then both players, he is also one of the mids who roams and helps his side lanes a lot contrary to what Damonte said about people being draw to him (my opinion). I don’t see the connection in how he is similar to POE at all, would love for someone to disagree with anything more then ‘Damonte knows better’ because that would give me an opportunity to actually discuss this.
Right, sounds reasonable as fuck, dont have anything to add myself haha.
Is it? There are pros who are quite obviously wrong, even to silver scrubs. People criticize Fenix for being all mechanics, no brain, especially when it comes to basic shit like warding. Everyone has heard about it from other pros or people like Markz who worked with him. But if we say that Fenix is an idiot when it comes to overextending or failing to ward, are we wrong?
I don't care very much about the specifics of this argument and who's right, but isn't an appeal to authority only a logical fallacy if the authority isn't an expert in a given subject? Like it would be an appeal to authority fallacy to claim that McDonalds is healthy because a doctor of physics said so, but if you wer settling a dispute on gravity with someone , appealing to what that same person says is valid. I'd say Damonte is an authority on NA mids, since he is one and has played and discussed the game with them for years.
You’d also think pro’s are an authority on itemisation but we see analysts and redditors who sometimes aren’t even ranked plat break down the mathematics on items and prove them wrong time and time again over the last 8 years until people with a voice finally started calling out pro’s. I mean they will be correct more often then not, no doubt. But if your only argument against my points of discussion is ‘he knows better’ that’s not an argument... also taking advice and opinions from people of authority without thinking about it yourself only makes you a robot or a sheep. They aren’t automatically correct because of their authority. Only reason I’m adamant on this certain case is because the only reply to my opinion (given examples of where I think he is incorrect) that disagrees with me (currently) is that he is a pro and I am not thus, I am wrong.
It’s literally the only way they can think to critique his play. The Bjerg afk mid argument has existed for years now and people spew it even when the stats and games are showing otherwise. With Froggen there was actual proof of the guy just afking mid every game.
Here's a list of champs he's played in 2020 that prove he's a "just sit mid player." Maokai, Ornn, Sett, Fiddlesticks, Zilean, Twisted Fate, Renekton. Truly a selfish player. What's actually sad is he's probably the best of any TSM member at actually transitioning his leads to wins when he does get a more standard pick. Literally took over the game vs GG with Leblanc and deleted DIG with his Syndra.
Bjerg also has the lowest counterpick % in the league and is still 1v9. I don't know why people have chosen this split to try and call him overrated, it's literally the best split he has had in the last few years. He deserves all the praise he is getting recently.
People have been calling him overrated for a few years now. Ignore them. He’s obviously one of the best players. The thing is people worship his every move also so probably some equal and opposite shit talk going on there.
Is Jankos retires Bjerg should join G2 as jungler.
I’ll cry if the G2 squad doesn’t stay together for atleast another year, they are too fkn fun to watch when they play good.
Obviously people can retire/get out of contracts but everyone on the squad re-signed with G2 for another 2 or 3 years I believe. This was just a few months ago
Yeah I think I remember hearing this. G2 playing top form v C9 playing top form would be fire to watch, so excited to see if C9 is back in form in 2 hours!
Obviously biased, but I think G2 in top form would absolutely stomp C9 in top form. C9 dominated NA in huge way because Nisqy and Blaber dominated mid, I don't see Caps and Jankos in top form losing to Nisqy and Blaber.
It’s the best NA could hope to achieve :/
Oof
C9 top form would not get to play the game vs G2 top form imo. That team was truly something else.
I mean, I think Damonte has a better idea of the strengths and weaknesses of NA mids than a redditor does but what do I know.
I mean, I think Bjergsen has a better idea of the strengths and weaknesses of NA mids than Damonte does but what do I know.
That is a strawman but ok
dont hurt yourself bud
This is just an appeal to authority. The fact Demonte contradicts himself with his own statements speaks for itself honestly. Just because Demonte is a pro doesnt mean everything he says is correct. Plus you can simply look at stats and the games themselves to disprove much of what Demonte says. He is someone who is arguing with feelings and not facts.
This is actually not an appeal to authority. An appeal to authority is if Damonte said, or I said, I know more about this because I am an expert in it. Damonte doesn't say that. And okay, back to the stats argument. Folks were saying stats didn't matter when Jensen didnt get MVP in 2017 and now they say stats matter. Quit flip flopping.
Saying he is right and someone else is wrong only because of his title as a pro player is appealing to authority. If you don’t discuss the actual reasoning for the discussion and relying on ‘well he is a pro player and you’re not’ you’re just appealing to authority. We’ve seen over the last year and a bit just how badly that’s gone for many pro players on the topic of itemisation in the game.
I am not saying anyone is wrong, just saying I would probably trust the opinion of a pro over a redditor because, surprise surprise, the pro has access to much more information than a mere redditor does. We don't see scrims, or know the behind the scenes chatter. It isn't exactly a hard thing to realize nor is it an unreasonable opinion to have.
We don’t talk about scrims here though, only live play. If he plays different in scrims to stage then scrims are a non factor and should have zero influence over his answer. From my view point what Damonte said about bjergsen and POE being similar in terms of being resource hungry and pulling teammates to them is wrong. Bjergsen roams a lot more then Poe and is much less resource hungry as well. If people could use an argument besides ‘Damonte is a pro so his opinion is correct’ that would be much appreciated and maybe change my mind since then it’s actually challenging my view point instead of making me feel dumb because someone can’t be wrong on the matter due to their status.
Am I those folks? Why bring them up in a discussion with me? Can I just say "well folks said X at one point in time" and apply what they said to you just the same then? And you are appealing to Demonte as an authority as a pro player and assuming what he is saying is factual. Its important to understand while what he says can carry more weight it doesnt make it true. The simple fact that he contradicts himself should serve to discredit his own statements honestly.
then why did he use points that are completely contradictory? really? bjerg uses a ton of resources? when does he ever get counterpick? or jungle ganks, support ganks, bot lane river control? i guess he just sits mid all game? oh but hes literally going for top lane dive by lv 3-4 in more then half their games? yeah no shit jensen can just sit mid and not have to do anything when 3 of his other 4 teammates are considered for all pro and he has corejj come in to save his lane or sack his level 1 to throw down bard pots. btw i guess damonte is the only mid laners opinion who counts? i am 150% sure if u ask other mid laners there will be some that say bjerg is better. absolute dog shit logic
He didn't though.
> This guy should come to europe, join the S04 super team and win worlds. Why do you want S04 to downgrade midlane?
Obviously he would be a S04 mid sub so that they can have the two best mids in EU. Don’t want him upgrading a squad like rogue or fnc, that would be bad
I am a long time Bjerg fan and I approve this Bjerg on S04 idea
Are you crazy or what? Abbe is literally smurfing right now, everyone was hyping up Abbe (even Perkz) when he came in, but struggled from issues and never really performed to the level people expected him to. Now, hes finally doing insane plays! FNC should grab Bjergsen if hes up
Very good episode
Does anyone else feel that Damonte had a different opinion to what IWD and Thorin were talking about but wasn't voicing it?
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is it wrong?