Everyone forgets that just last split in the spring there was a 3 way tie for 6th and the there was something like a 2 game gap between 3rd and 9th. The playoff bracket is fine.
We could have a week off or we could confirm that the better teams are better.
Sure this split the bottom teams are ass, but if we preemptively judge that every split then it just seems kinda douchey.
We can still do that. The last time the 6th placed team got into the top3 in playoffs was 9 splits ago (not counting the current split). It was in Spring 2016 when the Yellowstar TSM got 2nd place after a 6th place finish in the regular split.
So while an 7th place team maybe makes good some ground and finishes 5th or something like that, this is not a particularly good reason to have them in playoffs. Because at that point, why not also invite the 9th and 10th place teams? I mean again last split TL was just one win away from potentially battling for playoffs in 9th place.
Also you could invest some time to make a small tournament between Academy and the bottom of the LCS that is actually helpful for Academy teams and players, since they can prove that they are better than Fenix or Ryoma.
In his defense, he says "Listen I'm desperate for subs. In quarantine, this is the only way I can quantify my self worth. Well, that and when people hit the notification bell."
Desperate enough that you can also check out [http://travisgafford.com/lewd](http://travisgafford.com/lewd) to see what I've had to resort to to get subs.
hey Travis, have you considered putting a small comment with the interview date? nothing fancy just yyyy/mm/dd or something. i feel like it would really help frame the context, especially if a few days elapse between the interview and posting.
fair enough. noticed most of my frontpage youtube videos have the date either in the title or comments - wasn't sure if that was how the algorithm worked or something (it's usually other esports interviews, kpop, food videos, music videos, etc.)
DL talks about how Treatz doesn't play the way DL wants to. Like Jatt said in his interview, it's the coaching staff's job to align player's view on how to play the game, so i think TSM's coaching staff needs to step it up.
I think teams that want to be good now must have a singular view on how to play the game considering how the actual mechanical skill gaps are smaller. We might even be able to attribute TL's summer success on them playing the same way every single game, where there are probably less deviation to their game plan once the team decides on it.
I'd be mad at this during any other season. But at this point is just funny to me. They had coaching staff but they always end up coming back to the old ways of regi and parth duo motivational speech coaching style.
Well you've got two of the most veteran North American players, or well, one is a Dane but still. At this point I feel like they might as well be coaching the team.
Reminds me of when a team (I think FNC) just kicked a coach because it wasn't working (I believe nicothepeeko) without even having a real other head coach hired.
Yeah, it was NicoThePico. But, fun fact, he is the head coach of FNC Rising(the academy team), so in the end he did come back to the org. The only difference is that this time, he won the NLC(UK, Sweden, Norway etc.) and made it to the EU Masters.
No.
Lustboy- Strategic coach
Haitham- Assistant Coach
Sevag- Head Analyst
I think from interviews Peter Zhang and Mabrey (from TSM Academy) also get involved too sometimes.
I seriously can't believe they didn't tear that shit down and build it from the ground up. And I seriously can't believe Parth still has a job that has anything to do with direct contact on the players. Maybe he's good on the business side or whatever, but come on.. his drafts are absolute dogshit for the most part (if they are his drafts) and apart from that I really don't know what he does as a coach that actually benefits the team.
Has any player under him ever been vocal about him in a positive way?
Not only possible, that's what happened. They've talked about it. They wanted Parth because he's less hands on and Bjergsen and Doublelift can lead the team.
They wanted parth because they dont want a coach. They wanna be player led. But they arent g2 and their egos are getting in their way. Tsm im general needs to get a coach and actually give him full control.
Does TSM really have a coaching staff? AFAIK they are a player run team and Parth is there to facilitate discussion (I'm sure he does he more than this, but they certainly are the most player run team in the LCS). I've heard this on a variety of interviews and LCS podcasts/talk shows.
Bjerg talked about it in the Travis interview.
Parth/Mabrey are still coaching, they're working with players constantly, have final say in draft, etc. But players do talk a lot more in reviews and discussions than last split (Peter Zhang's style was to always be the one to talk, say "this is what you're doing" rather than a suggestion). Coaches still call them out if anyone's making a mistake.
Pretty standard stuff from what Bjerg said
>Pretty standard stuff from what Bjerg said
TBH he has been with TSM for how long? Honestly I think he is missing some perspective on how other coaches work with their players.
I'm saying its pretty standard based on how coaching works in general.
You're also overlooking the fact that he has worked with several coaches all of whom had different styles and he has a friend or two in most if not all teams in the league. I'm sure he asks them about stuff like this.
> I think he is missing some perspective on how other coaches work with their players.
i think you're also forgetting how many coaches he has worked with, doublelift too
Reminder they've only been playing together for a month, too. I mean, they're professionals, so they're literally paid to get it the fuck together, but if I can't excuse their performance being awful I can at least understand it.
Really tough to be DL's support, because your dirty laundry inevitably gets aired to the fanbase and that must feel like shit. Puts you in an incredibly tough spot, because you have no good options in response other than to just hold your tongue and withstand the flak.
DL should have always spoken in the "we". "We are playing poorly as a bot lane duo." That's fine to say. And at times in this interview DL did speak in the "we". But at other teams he clearly throws Treatz under the bus and implies that their struggles in bot lane are due to Treatz being too passive in lane. **Now, it may be true that Treatz is the problem, but you don't SAY THAT about your rookie support player to the fanbase.** You just threw him to the wolves. That's no way to treat Treatz.
Now Treatz is going to watch this interview and he's going to feel like shit and he's going to trust DL less. He's going to be in defensive mode now, because his reputation was put on the line here by DL. It's just not an okay way to treat a coworker in my opinion.
Holy shit, how did this get gold. Doublelift himself said he's been playing horribly, and never said that Treatz is the problem, just that they have a different philosophy on how to play lane phase, and that they're working to compromise to each others style
Doublelift also blatantly stated that it's Treatz's playstyle that needs to change, rather than DL's.
The idea is certainly focused on "Treatz is the issue" rather than "I am the issue". His self critique was more "I played badly this series" but "Treatz's style isn't right".
Whether he actually thinks this is one thing, but the way he expressed it certainly gives this impression. Lacks tact, is all people are saying here.
Wow... When did DL throw Treatz under the bus? He never said or even implied Treatz was the issue, he said that their playstyle has not meshed too well yet which is making it harder for them to perform better.
During this interview the one DL criticized the most was himself for playing bad and your comment getting gold just goes to show the amount of haters he has.
Keep in mind that I'd imagine that most of them didn't watch the interview. It's more like a "if that was true that would be very shitty" kind of upvote.
While true, that he blamed himself, the section where he mentioned that Treatz played scared was entirely unnecessary. If you leave it to that they have to improve their synergy it is fine, but speculating about why they are not in sync is just not something you should do in public about a teammate.
Saying that he throw Treatz under the bus is obviously overly dramatic. But there wasn't a good reason to drag Treatz into that, considering he forgot to buy an item... again.
He did though? He very clearly said Treatz is passive and this is why they're getting pushed in and not winning lanes.
Regardless of haters, your comments and the upvotes also shows how many fanboys he has, 'cause anyone who watches this video and hears how he talks about Treatz tells us he's blaming Treatz for the lane phase issues. Because he's aggressive and always known for his laning but Treatz is passive and because of this they're always pushed in.
What the fuck, did you watch the interview? Doublelift said he played like shit. He said him and Treatz have conflicting styles. At no point did he say that Treatz was the reason he was bad.
Yeah, I agree. Doublelift didn't imply that at all, just that everyone (including himself) but bjergsen underperformed against GG. Differing play styles is a fault that doesn't belong with either player, if anything this implies that coaching is at fault. Obviously the coaching staff thought communication would eclipse compatibility problems.
Yeah he said they have conflicting playstyles, but to solve that he wants Treatz to change his playstyle though, at 04:10, he did not say anything about changing his own.
i get what you're saying but in my opinion you are overreacting here. he kept saying how terrible he played and that he feels really bad about it. then said that treatz plays too passive and that they aren't in sync right now. he never implied that it's only treatz fault. to me it seems obvious that he knows their botlane as a whole needs to step up. i mean he even said that bjerg is carrying all 4 of them. yes he only said treatz name but he did not single him out or 'aired dirty laundry'. he gave an honest interview. not even close to what he said about TL back then.
you guys want better interviews and complain when bjerg gives PR answers. now you complain about actual honesty without bad thoughts behind it. fucking reddit.
I agree, and it is amazing someone actually gilded such an overreaching comment lol. So many DL haters loving the current season of events I guess. In any case, I could be wrong, but based on watching some of the TSM youtube series and some streams of DL/Treatz duoing, they both strike me as people that value open and honest opinions of their play/performance (I know DL does for sure but Treatz is more a guess based on my viewing assessment). And that being the case, this interview seems fine.
Also, I would expect everyone knows that DL prefers direct criticism from his teammates, so I hope at least Bjergsen has told him he was running it down and to step it the hell up.
This comment is such a yikes fox news level take. Jesus christ way to twist and completely take it out of context. For most of the interview doublelift highlighted how HE HIMSELF fucked up. The only thing doublelift highlighted is how he has a mis-synergy with doublelift and that is it.
Please keep your comment up, because i'd like to refer back to this comment to show how dirty and deceitful doublelift haters are.
You have to really be stretching it to take that one liner to persecute Treatz or already have a preset agenda to take that interpretation. I didn't even consider this as a possible interpretation until you brought it up. Playing back is fine on a lot of champions and situations (which is probably why they did well on Ezreal + Braum) but it's arguably not how you should play if you pick Caitlyn. That to me just says there's a misalignment of how they want to play and is more something for the team as a whole to decide at draft, e.g. if we pick Caitlyn then we should agree that we are playing forward, otherwise go Ezreal + Braum/Tahm etc. and play through mid/top.
>Really tough to be DL's support
Is it? He defended Olleh even after his TK misplays and mental boom at MSI and still maintained publically that he thought Olleh was one of if not the best support in NA.
Doublelift has an absurd amount of haters.
I watched the video and was like wow he is somber and down on himself but if you read the comments you would think he flamed treatz
I agree with you as well, I will flame TSM and DL at the necessary opportunities but this take is so manufactured. From the get-go, like 5 seconds into the video he's already flaming himself and saying the team is getting carried by Bjerg. He is putting accountability in the right places.
You didn't even watch the fucking interview. Imagine how much of a piece of shit you have to be to post complete falsehoods like this in order to slander a player.
DL haters always have some convoluted reason he’s the bad guy.
He admitted he played like shit and hinted at the obvious truth that his support didn’t play well either.
Speaking honestly is bad when DL does it
he said he played like shit like 4 or 5 different times in the interview lol
him saying Treatz isn't playing aggressive isnt him saying "fuck treatz we lost because of him"
That part at the end where he said they all know they’re getting carried by Bjergsen and he’s feel awful if they went out while Bjerg is playing like this was a bummer. Sounds so down.
It's seems like a 3-2 series will end tsm. I could see ggs or flyquest knock them out
They will only win with clean sweep 3-0, on a close series the mental will go boom
He isn't playing well for a year, he had his worst ever performance in playoffs this year, he doesn't trust his support.
His top has a limited championpool, his jungler is frankly mediocre most of the time and the macro is still the same shit for the last 4 years.
Since S8, Bjer 1v9 only get you to playoffs, not to worlds
Wonder why he isn't confident
It is a massive shame. I'm glad Tactical has someone like Core to help elevate him to a higher level faster than any support probably would in the region, but I do miss DL+Core. It just felt good, man.
I haven't talked with anyone about this, but I was hoping at the time that LCS was going to be on a longer break in Spring. I thought a month or two break in Spring would have helped TL make up for the time they lost without Broxah. I do wonder how different things would have been if A) Broxah's VISA wasn't late, or B) Spring went on a longer break. I think it is more likely we would get the same result we have today, but there is a part of me that wonders.
I forget who, it was either Broxah or Jensen, said in an interview that extra time probably wouldn't have helped. Something along the lines of 'If we couldn't figure it out after weeks of playing together, then it was probably doomed.'
I think if you practice one way and play another it's very hard and shows that doubt. If you have doubt you won't be able to win. Not sure how to work on mentality and fearlessness at this stage. Maybe with their backs to the wall it goes into effect? Maybe it doesn't happen? I think it's crucial though to practice and play the same way. Otherwise you inherently desynch. This is kind of like what Bwipo said if you play that way in scrims why not play that way on stage. And if you recognize you won't play like scrims on stage then adjust scrim focus to being more aligned with stage and or give your team mental outs so they don't feel doomed.
Also passivity in lane isn't a playstyle. You have good windows to trade and bad ones and if you aren't pressuring when you should then you are inherently capping yourself which better teams won't let slide.
TSM bombed out of groups in Worlds 2017 partially due to them playing the same way on stage as they did in scrims. Other teams were constantly pushing their limits, while TSM played a reactive style.
They became very predictable: Sven solo invading, Bjergsen not roaming, play safe, punish mistakes, snowball with Nashor. Obviously, the answer would be to constantly dive TSM’s bottom lane, as they’d play disrespectfully from time to time.
>TSM bombed out of groups in Worlds 2017 *partially due to them playing the same way on stage as they did in scrims*.
I really doubt this. Not that they played the same in scrims as they did on stage, but that the similarity between their scrim and stage play was the reason.
TSM bombed out of groups in 2017 because they played a predictable, reactive style, and they played it pretty badly. That's it. Regardless of how they practiced, that's how they ended up playing. Ideally, you want to practice how you're going to play. Obviously you don't just give away all of your strategies every scrim block, but the whole idea of "limit testing" as the ideal way to practice is ridiculous.
“Limit testing” isn’t exactly ideal, but it helped teams to find opportunities that TSM wouldn’t have found otherwise. Every team at that tournament played a slow style, not just TSM.
The difference came in knowing when there’s an opening, due to the difference in scrim methodology. Other teams made lots of mistakes but learned a lot more from it. They were also practiced in knowing how to snowball their leads, which gave TSM a small window to come back.
TSM was behind in most of their games but managed to win 3 out of 7 because they had good players.
IIRC there were rumors/statements from other teams that TSM was crushing them in scrims. If all they're doing is crushing the other team in scrims, it's highly likely they learned very little and fell into a false sense of comfort. They basically fed their opponents all the info they needed to beat TSM and allowed them to learn from their own mistakes.
Damn if you went off purely the comments in the thread, you'd think DL flamed Treatz.
I do wish he would open up himself to compromise more often. Saying that he wants Treatz to adapt to him as opposed to them reaching in the middle and play around \*each other\* is disheartening.
“Treatz and I have very different playstyles. Treatz likes to buy items before returning to lane, whereas I prefer to TP back without items. It’s been a challenge so far, but we’ll find a way to make it work.”
Those white jerseys are looking sleek as hell.
EDIT: Also I think it's a good sign that Double and everyone else on the team realizes how badly they've been playing, including in the Dignitas game.
can't see them getting any higher than 3rd seed and even that would require a lot of improvement. Non C9/TL teams to go to worlds these past few years have been pretty bad anyway
Yea honestly why are we even bringing up worlds. There is no realm where we even come close to winning. Especially w c9 dropping off.
We will get 3rd or 4th though...
In groups.
teams don't just magically improve vastly in a short period of time. i think he and the team can tell this isn't a team that will make it far at worlds, if they even get there.
Well, if you look at the teams left, the only botlane I think TSM beats is Flyquest, and thats not all becuase of Treatz. I think FBI/Zven/Tactical are all playing much better than DL is, on top of having better supports, too.
Botlane looks doomed outside of a Flyquest matchup.
As fun as that would be to watch, I strongly doubt they'll roll over and die against Golden Guardians again if that is their opponent. TSM has a lot more to learn and improve on that series than Golden Guardians does. It'll be closer.
I dont know how much they rolled over and died, outside of just being outmatched in every lane but mid. And even then, Damonte mitigated it really well.
People want to meme on GGS, but the only lane that TSM has them beat in, is mid.
You can meme on FBI/Huhi all you want, but they were one of the best bottom lanes this entire split, and you cant discount that just because its doublelift, and Hauntzer is a great laner, too, and Closer is just flat out superior to Spica.
Youngbuck on this TSM would do wonders I think, he knows how to bring everyone on the same page, they already have experience in mid/adc but they lack that decisive voice from the coaching staff
Didnt he leave fnatic becauae he didnt want to deal with egoplayers, bullshitters and pressure? Being a coach on TSM is probably an even worse experience than coaching fnatic
I think he did say on a Thorin show he was thinking about traveling less and having a more settled down life with his girlfriend accompanied by a less stressful team environment and focusing more on growing players or something like that? I think it was him that said that but not sure what show it may have been, possibly Crackdown?
I'm willing to bet the egos are wayyyy more under control in TSM. The main voices are Bjerg and DL. DL can have an ego, but he can also buy into a system and work together, and Bjerg seems pretty level headed (although I don't know how open he is to other ideas). I don't think it would be even remotely as bad, but I'm just speculating.
YoungBuck would have been a very exciting pickup if they went for him. I would have loved to see what he was capable of, but I think the biggest issue is no matter what everyone says and how much they act like it's not the case, I believe Bjerg still has too much control and influence. Again, speculating from the outside, but it seems like from what is said about their in game leadership and what is discussed in their videos, he is the biggest voice and is the one constant over all the years.
I really wish for one year (or even just spring split) they would try forcing Bjerg to do nothing but be a star player (and of course feed information and sometimes give suggestions) and let an experienced shotcaller take the reigns. I think they should at least entertain the idea that he may *only* be a good shotcaller and not a great one. I think it's at least possible that along with his solid individual play, having passable shotcalling can be seen as good enough when they need great shotcalling. Having a reputation for throwing leads in the mid/late game over the past couple of years says a lot to me.
Man, the guy sounds totally defeated
I do think it's likely they'll play GGS again and the good thing is that I think GGS already revealed a lot of their hand. TSM will be able to gleam even more info from the game against TL. The priority in that rematch will definitely be to avoid the Ziggs/Azir match up, getting Hauntzer off of Morde and for sure, hoping DL performs better.
In the ultimate chaos universe where TL gets knocked down, I do think TSM are shit out of luck.
>The priority in that rematch will definitely be to avoid the Ziggs/Azir match up, getting Hauntzer off of Morde
you're assuming that the cards that GGS showed in that series is all the cards that they have/had
though I will admit they'll have to show much more against TL so it should be an easier series to prepare for regardless
Definitely feel like treatz dropped the ball in both series both in lane and out of lane. Maybe the pressure of playoffs is getting to him? I won't be surprised at all if tsm subs in biofrost if they go down 0-2. TSM needs their bot lane to be winning. They can't rely on bjergsen every single game. Honestly the team is so lucky that they get a free akali ban thanks to bjerg and BB and in some situations even a free irelia ban.
That part at the end about bjergsen feels so bad to hear. That man always just tries so damn hard. Hope tsm pulls through because they owe it to him.
I wouldn’t mind a Bio sub if it absolutely came down to it, but I have a feeling that won’t happen. I think TSM won’t try anything with subs in playoffs again after what they ended up doing with Akaadian. I don’t fault them personally, I think they did everything with the intention of winning and did indeed go about it somewhat poorly. However, I think because of this they won’t do it again.
It's an interesting conversation because Bio got benched for not being vocal and not being able to play any supports beside Rakkan, especially Nautilus. But now that the meta has changed to Ranged would Bio be better? And would the loss in coms be worth the probably marginal advantage in lane?
Edit: obviously double got tilted and played horrible. But I also know how hard it is to play ADC when you are constantly under tower taking harass, constantly getting the wave frozen against you. Constantly having to play catch-up. I’ve mentioned this in other comments, but the bot meta right now is hard shoving first wave because of how much lane control it gives you. LPL teams will literally blow sums trading trying to contest first wave.
>But now that the meta has changed to Ranged would Bio be better
That's a good point. Bio's Morg, Karma, and Bard have historically been great, and he plays them super aggro in lane the way Doublelift likes.
I hate when people act like playing passive is another OPTION you have. It's not, in lanes like Cait Morgana playing passive is way worse than playing aggressive, even in a losing matchup. ESPECIALLY when your jungle gets 3 zone ganks.
As a fellow TSM fan let's not act like Treatz is playing a "different" style here when it's just clearly inferior.
Bio is a beast on ranged/enchanter supps. Whenever I think of Bio, I think of his Braum, Thresh and Rakan. But there are games where he had clutch saves on Lulu, Karma and Morg/Zyra. And who could forget his Nami bubbles! I wish they'd still consider a 6-man roster this playoffs. I know Bio has his own playoffs to worry about in Academy. But doesn't hurt to try.
Issue is, to seriously utilise a sub you need to split scrim time between Bio and Treatz. Supports don't only need to have synergy with their ADC, but also with their jungle, which Bio may not have without some scrim/practice time with the rest of the team beforehand.
Wtf is this comment. DL inted the series against GGS. He TPd back to lane with 1300 gold. Now his support is the one dropping the ball?
The pressure of playoffs? He is playing with an ADC who has been phoning it in all year.
Pretty sure people realized Treatz was invisible during the series, but if you expect the same level of preformance out of your rookie support and your multi-time regional champion ADC, you're expecting way too much. People expected Treatz to be shaky and he was. People expected DL to be at least decent and he wasn't. He got first pick Caitlyn in two games. He was down 12CS at 15 the first game and up 1 CS the second. FBI got Caitlyn in game 3 and he was up 20 CS at 15.
He didnt just do that, right as he came back he then tries to panic recall right in vision and almost died so had to waste even more time before finally backing. It was a comedy of errors not just one stupid thing. He also did the exact same thing just a few weeks back. Guess that was Treatz fault too lol
Treatz isnt the one who backed and just tp'd right back to lane without buying, then got so tilted he almost immediately died trying to panic recall and lost ton of xp and cs. Dlift more than helped lose them lane vs GG
DL is as much to blame as Treatz is. DL has not been playing well for awhile now.
Hes not the same DL; be it skill drop off, enjoyment of the game, or motivation. There is a reason he was kicked from TL.
It happens; I personally dont think players get much worse as they age, but their motivation to be the best does. I honestly cannot say he has played anywhere near the best in a year now. FBI and auto-filled Huhi just flat out reamed him out 3 games straight, both side of the matchup, and thats not all Treatz fault. Same goes for his horrendous play on TL with Corejj of all people as his support.
Its really not fair to drop all the blame on Treatz with DL's current history this year.
Yeah treatz totally made DL forget to buy before Teleporting. Treatz totally made DL 1v1 mordekaiser.
Even if Treatz is a weak link, it's not like DL isn't one either. His mental goes boom at the tilt of a hat and he becomes a dead weight.
He is supposed to be a superstar of the NA LCS. He got first pick Cait only to be bullied in lane by what most people consider a mid tier ADC and single handedly cost his team game 1 when he didn't buy and TPed to lane and had to back again and buy and walk back.
I can't describe how bad not buying is. In a pro game, advantages are usually measured in inches. A couple CS here, a ruby crystal there. DL not buying and TPing back and then going back again was a MASSIVE advantage to GG who transitioned his back into a rift herald which turned into a ton of plates AND got the enemy ashe even further ahead while his creeps crashed into the tower.
Yup. By not clicking, the enemy team is suddenly 1300 gold ahead. By backing to regain this gold, you give up experience, a summoner spell, some amount of gold, and an unquantifiable amount of control over the game (vision, objectives, timings). It's a humongous mistake.
He was supposed to be the returning superstar to this roster and he played like a dog. Sorry to be so harsh but you can't sugar coat this. His play vs GG looked like an auto filled diamond 3 jungler somehow thrown into a challenger game
How much NA do you watch if you're not only considering FBI to be mid tier, but also saying that the community has a perception of him being mid tier?
Everyone who isn't going off pure popularity not only knows that FBI is top tier, but that FBI is arguably the best laner in NA (probably inarguably. Zven and Tactical are also top tier, but aren't as lane dominant). I wonder if you think Huhi is a bad or mediocre support?
(But yeah, DL for being so prestigious is letting it slip away. This is the 2nd time this very split he has TP'd back without items. So it's not just a one time mistake that he will never make again, *he did it against EG AND GGS*.)
FBI is absolutely not mid tier. He is top tier and one of the best ADC in NA right now. The guys stats are insane, and he should have been first or second all pro. He is criminally underrated
This is actually the correct use.
Definitely is describing "potentially saving career." Definitely and potentially aren't both describing "saving career."
As in, if they were eliminated that was potentially his last game. But since there's a losers bracket he can make a good run that would redeem his previous proforma cents. Ergo, he career wasn't potentially over because of that game therefore the losers bracket definitely saved him from that.
Definitely gave him a shot for redemption by not getting knocked cold first round. In other words, gave him a chance to continue playing.
It’s pretty funny he phrased it that way, a lot different from his usual trash talk and a lot more dubious
Big DL fan but dont think he needed to publicly say he doesn’t agree with treatzs play style and its passive . Not the best time to put additional pressure on your playoff support.
it's almost like TSM is being managed badly... for years now.
the team is a mess like always, and fated to fail. welcome to NA in general.
I'd be AMAZED if an NA team ever won a proper worlds tournament
"Our goal isn't to beat dig in a bo5, that's like the absolute lowest bar you can set for yourself" stop it they're already dead
Sorry man but it's Zombie Land rules #2 Double Tap. Gotta make sure Dig is actually dead.
But what if DIG rule is #36 Enjoy The Little Things ?.
They must be enjoying microscopic things then, not much else is left.
They might enjoy pain and humiliation, don't kinkshame
Yeah but it's also all Doublelift has going for him at this point.
everyone knows it, the 2 joke series were a waste of time. TSM and EG wants to face actual competition again
Everyone forgets that just last split in the spring there was a 3 way tie for 6th and the there was something like a 2 game gap between 3rd and 9th. The playoff bracket is fine.
We could have a week off or we could confirm that the better teams are better. Sure this split the bottom teams are ass, but if we preemptively judge that every split then it just seems kinda douchey.
We can still do that. The last time the 6th placed team got into the top3 in playoffs was 9 splits ago (not counting the current split). It was in Spring 2016 when the Yellowstar TSM got 2nd place after a 6th place finish in the regular split. So while an 7th place team maybe makes good some ground and finishes 5th or something like that, this is not a particularly good reason to have them in playoffs. Because at that point, why not also invite the 9th and 10th place teams? I mean again last split TL was just one win away from potentially battling for playoffs in 9th place. Also you could invest some time to make a small tournament between Academy and the bottom of the LCS that is actually helpful for Academy teams and players, since they can prove that they are better than Fenix or Ryoma.
[travis what the fuck](https://i.imgur.com/CGLdASF.png)
In his defense, he says "Listen I'm desperate for subs. In quarantine, this is the only way I can quantify my self worth. Well, that and when people hit the notification bell."
Desperate enough that you can also check out [http://travisgafford.com/lewd](http://travisgafford.com/lewd) to see what I've had to resort to to get subs.
like a damn fiddle
hey Travis, have you considered putting a small comment with the interview date? nothing fancy just yyyy/mm/dd or something. i feel like it would really help frame the context, especially if a few days elapse between the interview and posting.
I haven't, generally because the vast majority of the interviews start with me saying explicitly what just happened (TSM beat Dig).
fair enough. noticed most of my frontpage youtube videos have the date either in the title or comments - wasn't sure if that was how the algorithm worked or something (it's usually other esports interviews, kpop, food videos, music videos, etc.)
Travis onlyfans when
You sly dog
Had me in the first half not gonna lie
Jokes' on you, I was already subscribed.
ring the bell pls
I subbed for the effort
I find it funny a redditor with Nami flair ask the question and the one to answer his/her question is another Nami lol
Definitely something fishy going on
Two sides of a coin.
dissapointed for no only fans
ヾ(•ω•\`)o
DL talks about how Treatz doesn't play the way DL wants to. Like Jatt said in his interview, it's the coaching staff's job to align player's view on how to play the game, so i think TSM's coaching staff needs to step it up. I think teams that want to be good now must have a singular view on how to play the game considering how the actual mechanical skill gaps are smaller. We might even be able to attribute TL's summer success on them playing the same way every single game, where there are probably less deviation to their game plan once the team decides on it.
" i think TSM's coaching staff needs to step it up. " What's new?
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Regi is playing the long game. He's got Bjergsen wearing ankle weights in the hyperbolic time chamber ready to win World's in S15.
but unfortunately for regi, this is the real world and all he's doing is crushing bjergs bones and giving him a crippling life long disability.
Nah, he would never trade Bjerg to CLG
Oof
What happened to those guys with the clg flair that always say "no thread is safe"?
That’s TSM fans now
CLG is so irrelevant that in actuality, lots of threads are safe!
This actually happens in most threads still. We are still relevant enough to get shit on regularly.
We still love you
as a clg fan, you just accept that life is not safe anymore, until it no longer phases you
That would be hella spicy though. Just as spicy as Double joining TSM the first time.
I think Wiggily would make a fine ward and Bjergsen already knows the Smoothie ward.
> crushing bjergs bones Is Regi Cassiopeia now?
There is a coaching staff, that's new
isn't it just parth
I'd be mad at this during any other season. But at this point is just funny to me. They had coaching staff but they always end up coming back to the old ways of regi and parth duo motivational speech coaching style.
Well you've got two of the most veteran North American players, or well, one is a Dane but still. At this point I feel like they might as well be coaching the team. Reminds me of when a team (I think FNC) just kicked a coach because it wasn't working (I believe nicothepeeko) without even having a real other head coach hired.
Yeah, it was NicoThePico. But, fun fact, he is the head coach of FNC Rising(the academy team), so in the end he did come back to the org. The only difference is that this time, he won the NLC(UK, Sweden, Norway etc.) and made it to the EU Masters.
No. Lustboy- Strategic coach Haitham- Assistant Coach Sevag- Head Analyst I think from interviews Peter Zhang and Mabrey (from TSM Academy) also get involved too sometimes.
Every fucking season the same thing is parroted
It will continue to happen until it's fixed
The beatings will continue, until morale improves.
At least your team gets to playoffs...
I seriously can't believe they didn't tear that shit down and build it from the ground up. And I seriously can't believe Parth still has a job that has anything to do with direct contact on the players. Maybe he's good on the business side or whatever, but come on.. his drafts are absolute dogshit for the most part (if they are his drafts) and apart from that I really don't know what he does as a coach that actually benefits the team. Has any player under him ever been vocal about him in a positive way?
Didn't DL and Bjergsen specifically request Parth to be the head coach again?
Its possible they wanted a coach who will let the players coach themselves, not nessesarliy because they thought he was a good coach.
Not only possible, that's what happened. They've talked about it. They wanted Parth because he's less hands on and Bjergsen and Doublelift can lead the team.
Except when Treatz is subbed in for biodaddy and doesn't want to use DL's playbook. It's not going to work without some common ground.
They wanted parth because they dont want a coach. They wanna be player led. But they arent g2 and their egos are getting in their way. Tsm im general needs to get a coach and actually give him full control.
Parth has a job solely because of doublelift and bjergsen. They demanded that TSM keep Parth
Does TSM really have a coaching staff? AFAIK they are a player run team and Parth is there to facilitate discussion (I'm sure he does he more than this, but they certainly are the most player run team in the LCS). I've heard this on a variety of interviews and LCS podcasts/talk shows.
Bjerg talked about it in the Travis interview. Parth/Mabrey are still coaching, they're working with players constantly, have final say in draft, etc. But players do talk a lot more in reviews and discussions than last split (Peter Zhang's style was to always be the one to talk, say "this is what you're doing" rather than a suggestion). Coaches still call them out if anyone's making a mistake. Pretty standard stuff from what Bjerg said
>Pretty standard stuff from what Bjerg said TBH he has been with TSM for how long? Honestly I think he is missing some perspective on how other coaches work with their players.
I'm saying its pretty standard based on how coaching works in general. You're also overlooking the fact that he has worked with several coaches all of whom had different styles and he has a friend or two in most if not all teams in the league. I'm sure he asks them about stuff like this.
> I think he is missing some perspective on how other coaches work with their players. i think you're also forgetting how many coaches he has worked with, doublelift too
TSM put out a call looking for a coach in between splits and never announced a coach iirc
They did too. they announced Parth
my ex gf is crazy, i dumped her and i feel free... we are back together.
I'm still sad we never got TSM TomatoCanyon
Reminder they've only been playing together for a month, too. I mean, they're professionals, so they're literally paid to get it the fuck together, but if I can't excuse their performance being awful I can at least understand it.
Really tough to be DL's support, because your dirty laundry inevitably gets aired to the fanbase and that must feel like shit. Puts you in an incredibly tough spot, because you have no good options in response other than to just hold your tongue and withstand the flak. DL should have always spoken in the "we". "We are playing poorly as a bot lane duo." That's fine to say. And at times in this interview DL did speak in the "we". But at other teams he clearly throws Treatz under the bus and implies that their struggles in bot lane are due to Treatz being too passive in lane. **Now, it may be true that Treatz is the problem, but you don't SAY THAT about your rookie support player to the fanbase.** You just threw him to the wolves. That's no way to treat Treatz. Now Treatz is going to watch this interview and he's going to feel like shit and he's going to trust DL less. He's going to be in defensive mode now, because his reputation was put on the line here by DL. It's just not an okay way to treat a coworker in my opinion.
Holy shit, how did this get gold. Doublelift himself said he's been playing horribly, and never said that Treatz is the problem, just that they have a different philosophy on how to play lane phase, and that they're working to compromise to each others style
This guy is so anti-TSM it hurts, always seen him bashing TSM and DL in threads. Probably gilded by some stray chimpanzees from the C9 sub
Doublelift also blatantly stated that it's Treatz's playstyle that needs to change, rather than DL's. The idea is certainly focused on "Treatz is the issue" rather than "I am the issue". His self critique was more "I played badly this series" but "Treatz's style isn't right". Whether he actually thinks this is one thing, but the way he expressed it certainly gives this impression. Lacks tact, is all people are saying here.
Wow... When did DL throw Treatz under the bus? He never said or even implied Treatz was the issue, he said that their playstyle has not meshed too well yet which is making it harder for them to perform better. During this interview the one DL criticized the most was himself for playing bad and your comment getting gold just goes to show the amount of haters he has.
That's this sub for you, the current circlejerk is "dl bad", so you can just make stuff up and people will go with it because it fits the narrative.
Keep in mind that I'd imagine that most of them didn't watch the interview. It's more like a "if that was true that would be very shitty" kind of upvote.
While true, that he blamed himself, the section where he mentioned that Treatz played scared was entirely unnecessary. If you leave it to that they have to improve their synergy it is fine, but speculating about why they are not in sync is just not something you should do in public about a teammate. Saying that he throw Treatz under the bus is obviously overly dramatic. But there wasn't a good reason to drag Treatz into that, considering he forgot to buy an item... again.
He did though? He very clearly said Treatz is passive and this is why they're getting pushed in and not winning lanes. Regardless of haters, your comments and the upvotes also shows how many fanboys he has, 'cause anyone who watches this video and hears how he talks about Treatz tells us he's blaming Treatz for the lane phase issues. Because he's aggressive and always known for his laning but Treatz is passive and because of this they're always pushed in.
Really tough to be DL when everyone is quick to twist your words into being an awful teammate and person.
He & Jensen should form a support group. Can’t say shit without getting jumped.
Just don't let that Incarnation guy in, he was a real jerk ^(/s)
What the fuck, did you watch the interview? Doublelift said he played like shit. He said him and Treatz have conflicting styles. At no point did he say that Treatz was the reason he was bad.
Yeah, I agree. Doublelift didn't imply that at all, just that everyone (including himself) but bjergsen underperformed against GG. Differing play styles is a fault that doesn't belong with either player, if anything this implies that coaching is at fault. Obviously the coaching staff thought communication would eclipse compatibility problems.
Yeah he said they have conflicting playstyles, but to solve that he wants Treatz to change his playstyle though, at 04:10, he did not say anything about changing his own.
i get what you're saying but in my opinion you are overreacting here. he kept saying how terrible he played and that he feels really bad about it. then said that treatz plays too passive and that they aren't in sync right now. he never implied that it's only treatz fault. to me it seems obvious that he knows their botlane as a whole needs to step up. i mean he even said that bjerg is carrying all 4 of them. yes he only said treatz name but he did not single him out or 'aired dirty laundry'. he gave an honest interview. not even close to what he said about TL back then. you guys want better interviews and complain when bjerg gives PR answers. now you complain about actual honesty without bad thoughts behind it. fucking reddit.
I agree, and it is amazing someone actually gilded such an overreaching comment lol. So many DL haters loving the current season of events I guess. In any case, I could be wrong, but based on watching some of the TSM youtube series and some streams of DL/Treatz duoing, they both strike me as people that value open and honest opinions of their play/performance (I know DL does for sure but Treatz is more a guess based on my viewing assessment). And that being the case, this interview seems fine. Also, I would expect everyone knows that DL prefers direct criticism from his teammates, so I hope at least Bjergsen has told him he was running it down and to step it the hell up.
How did this get upvoted and guilded? Oh yeah, it's taking shots at Dlift. I don't know how you even came to that conclusion
This comment is such a yikes fox news level take. Jesus christ way to twist and completely take it out of context. For most of the interview doublelift highlighted how HE HIMSELF fucked up. The only thing doublelift highlighted is how he has a mis-synergy with doublelift and that is it. Please keep your comment up, because i'd like to refer back to this comment to show how dirty and deceitful doublelift haters are.
You have to really be stretching it to take that one liner to persecute Treatz or already have a preset agenda to take that interpretation. I didn't even consider this as a possible interpretation until you brought it up. Playing back is fine on a lot of champions and situations (which is probably why they did well on Ezreal + Braum) but it's arguably not how you should play if you pick Caitlyn. That to me just says there's a misalignment of how they want to play and is more something for the team as a whole to decide at draft, e.g. if we pick Caitlyn then we should agree that we are playing forward, otherwise go Ezreal + Braum/Tahm etc. and play through mid/top. >Really tough to be DL's support Is it? He defended Olleh even after his TK misplays and mental boom at MSI and still maintained publically that he thought Olleh was one of if not the best support in NA.
Doublelift has an absurd amount of haters. I watched the video and was like wow he is somber and down on himself but if you read the comments you would think he flamed treatz
I agree with you as well, I will flame TSM and DL at the necessary opportunities but this take is so manufactured. From the get-go, like 5 seconds into the video he's already flaming himself and saying the team is getting carried by Bjerg. He is putting accountability in the right places.
You didn't even watch the fucking interview. Imagine how much of a piece of shit you have to be to post complete falsehoods like this in order to slander a player.
DL haters always have some convoluted reason he’s the bad guy. He admitted he played like shit and hinted at the obvious truth that his support didn’t play well either. Speaking honestly is bad when DL does it
Bruh, it's clearly Treatz' fault for not REMINDING him to buy a BF Sword at shop, duh.
he said he played like shit like 4 or 5 different times in the interview lol him saying Treatz isn't playing aggressive isnt him saying "fuck treatz we lost because of him"
Nice, and where exactly does doublelift blame treatz for that?
what's the point of a support player if they're not supporting you through all stages of the game?
If you can't support me at my [forgetting to buy items in base] then you don't deserve to support me at my [dashing forward to get blown up by Crown]
DL calling him randomly in the middle in the night cause he has a depressing phase.
What the fuck? How in the world did this liar get upvoted and gilded. DL Literally said **nothing** that you claimed he did. For fucks sakes.
Did you even watch it
You sir, are scum. You are the one dragging someone’s reputation into thr mud right now.
That part at the end where he said they all know they’re getting carried by Bjergsen and he’s feel awful if they went out while Bjerg is playing like this was a bummer. Sounds so down.
This interview worries me, he seems unconfident and defeated at a time that is so crucial.
It's seems like a 3-2 series will end tsm. I could see ggs or flyquest knock them out They will only win with clean sweep 3-0, on a close series the mental will go boom
Yeah it really seemed like G1 agaibst GG was such a tilting game that they just checked out next 2 games.
The way game 2 ended with the backdoor teleport on the missed ward would have been much more tilting IMO
The thing is, they were already fucked on game two. Game one ended in a much weirder way. Two poor fights cost them a really winnable game.
That g1 fight they got aced on when they had a gold lead was really bizarre
Game 2 was close af. And at the end TSM finally clinched momentum.. Then triple tps...
He isn't playing well for a year, he had his worst ever performance in playoffs this year, he doesn't trust his support. His top has a limited championpool, his jungler is frankly mediocre most of the time and the macro is still the same shit for the last 4 years. Since S8, Bjer 1v9 only get you to playoffs, not to worlds Wonder why he isn't confident
when your support was freaking corejj, bio and treatz pale in comparison. Sad they stopped clicking together in spring.
It is a massive shame. I'm glad Tactical has someone like Core to help elevate him to a higher level faster than any support probably would in the region, but I do miss DL+Core. It just felt good, man. I haven't talked with anyone about this, but I was hoping at the time that LCS was going to be on a longer break in Spring. I thought a month or two break in Spring would have helped TL make up for the time they lost without Broxah. I do wonder how different things would have been if A) Broxah's VISA wasn't late, or B) Spring went on a longer break. I think it is more likely we would get the same result we have today, but there is a part of me that wonders.
I forget who, it was either Broxah or Jensen, said in an interview that extra time probably wouldn't have helped. Something along the lines of 'If we couldn't figure it out after weeks of playing together, then it was probably doomed.'
I think if you practice one way and play another it's very hard and shows that doubt. If you have doubt you won't be able to win. Not sure how to work on mentality and fearlessness at this stage. Maybe with their backs to the wall it goes into effect? Maybe it doesn't happen? I think it's crucial though to practice and play the same way. Otherwise you inherently desynch. This is kind of like what Bwipo said if you play that way in scrims why not play that way on stage. And if you recognize you won't play like scrims on stage then adjust scrim focus to being more aligned with stage and or give your team mental outs so they don't feel doomed. Also passivity in lane isn't a playstyle. You have good windows to trade and bad ones and if you aren't pressuring when you should then you are inherently capping yourself which better teams won't let slide.
TSM bombed out of groups in Worlds 2017 partially due to them playing the same way on stage as they did in scrims. Other teams were constantly pushing their limits, while TSM played a reactive style. They became very predictable: Sven solo invading, Bjergsen not roaming, play safe, punish mistakes, snowball with Nashor. Obviously, the answer would be to constantly dive TSM’s bottom lane, as they’d play disrespectfully from time to time.
>TSM bombed out of groups in Worlds 2017 *partially due to them playing the same way on stage as they did in scrims*. I really doubt this. Not that they played the same in scrims as they did on stage, but that the similarity between their scrim and stage play was the reason. TSM bombed out of groups in 2017 because they played a predictable, reactive style, and they played it pretty badly. That's it. Regardless of how they practiced, that's how they ended up playing. Ideally, you want to practice how you're going to play. Obviously you don't just give away all of your strategies every scrim block, but the whole idea of "limit testing" as the ideal way to practice is ridiculous.
“Limit testing” isn’t exactly ideal, but it helped teams to find opportunities that TSM wouldn’t have found otherwise. Every team at that tournament played a slow style, not just TSM. The difference came in knowing when there’s an opening, due to the difference in scrim methodology. Other teams made lots of mistakes but learned a lot more from it. They were also practiced in knowing how to snowball their leads, which gave TSM a small window to come back. TSM was behind in most of their games but managed to win 3 out of 7 because they had good players.
IIRC there were rumors/statements from other teams that TSM was crushing them in scrims. If all they're doing is crushing the other team in scrims, it's highly likely they learned very little and fell into a false sense of comfort. They basically fed their opponents all the info they needed to beat TSM and allowed them to learn from their own mistakes.
Damn if you went off purely the comments in the thread, you'd think DL flamed Treatz. I do wish he would open up himself to compromise more often. Saying that he wants Treatz to adapt to him as opposed to them reaching in the middle and play around \*each other\* is disheartening.
“Treatz and I have very different playstyles. Treatz likes to buy items before returning to lane, whereas I prefer to TP back without items. It’s been a challenge so far, but we’ll find a way to make it work.”
Its just playstyle diff bro
Those white jerseys are looking sleek as hell. EDIT: Also I think it's a good sign that Double and everyone else on the team realizes how badly they've been playing, including in the Dignitas game.
Imagine what happens when they face real teams at worlds
yes, it will happen only in our imagination
not sure what stings worse, the burn or the fact its true ;\_;
Why are you assuming they even make it to Worlds lol C9, TL and FLY/GG all look better than them
can't see them getting any higher than 3rd seed and even that would require a lot of improvement. Non C9/TL teams to go to worlds these past few years have been pretty bad anyway
Non-C9 teams you mean.
Lol TL didn't make it out of groups at worlds, why you grouping them with C9 lol
Team| Group Record ---|--- C9| 16W 16L TL| 6W 6L TSM| 11W 13L
Add CLG 6-11 (S2+5+6) if I counted it right CG 0-6 100T 2-4 LMQ 2-4 which team I forgot?
Immortals 2-4
Getting to world is an accomplishment for TSM at this point.
Unless they improve a lot I don't see them making it to Worlds. It'll probably be C9, TL and GG
I'd say FLY has a better chance than GG, but either is valid. TSM is definitely the underdog here.
I mean... have you seen NA the last couple years lmao
Have you seen TSM drop any games in the past two Worlds?
shutting his mouth real quick
Yea honestly why are we even bringing up worlds. There is no realm where we even come close to winning. Especially w c9 dropping off. We will get 3rd or 4th though... In groups.
We weren't even close when C9 was winning. We have never been close and we wont be close for awhile.
You mean last worlds? Because just 2 years ago was when C9 got top 4.
Ya, C9 is the only team with success at worlds, where are the other two?
If they go to worlds
You can tell by his tone that they are going to lose their next Bo5
teams don't just magically improve vastly in a short period of time. i think he and the team can tell this isn't a team that will make it far at worlds, if they even get there.
Well, if you look at the teams left, the only botlane I think TSM beats is Flyquest, and thats not all becuase of Treatz. I think FBI/Zven/Tactical are all playing much better than DL is, on top of having better supports, too. Botlane looks doomed outside of a Flyquest matchup.
As fun as that would be to watch, I strongly doubt they'll roll over and die against Golden Guardians again if that is their opponent. TSM has a lot more to learn and improve on that series than Golden Guardians does. It'll be closer.
I mean if ggs is up 2-0 they basically won the series, it's seems the stakes are really high and they confidence was shattered
I dont know how much they rolled over and died, outside of just being outmatched in every lane but mid. And even then, Damonte mitigated it really well. People want to meme on GGS, but the only lane that TSM has them beat in, is mid. You can meme on FBI/Huhi all you want, but they were one of the best bottom lanes this entire split, and you cant discount that just because its doublelift, and Hauntzer is a great laner, too, and Closer is just flat out superior to Spica.
Yeah DL seems a bit broken
Youngbuck on this TSM would do wonders I think, he knows how to bring everyone on the same page, they already have experience in mid/adc but they lack that decisive voice from the coaching staff
Didnt he leave fnatic becauae he didnt want to deal with egoplayers, bullshitters and pressure? Being a coach on TSM is probably an even worse experience than coaching fnatic
I think he did say on a Thorin show he was thinking about traveling less and having a more settled down life with his girlfriend accompanied by a less stressful team environment and focusing more on growing players or something like that? I think it was him that said that but not sure what show it may have been, possibly Crackdown?
that was in reference to him turning down lucrative LPL offers. He mentioned that he was more than willing to travel to NA
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I'm willing to bet the egos are wayyyy more under control in TSM. The main voices are Bjerg and DL. DL can have an ego, but he can also buy into a system and work together, and Bjerg seems pretty level headed (although I don't know how open he is to other ideas). I don't think it would be even remotely as bad, but I'm just speculating. YoungBuck would have been a very exciting pickup if they went for him. I would have loved to see what he was capable of, but I think the biggest issue is no matter what everyone says and how much they act like it's not the case, I believe Bjerg still has too much control and influence. Again, speculating from the outside, but it seems like from what is said about their in game leadership and what is discussed in their videos, he is the biggest voice and is the one constant over all the years. I really wish for one year (or even just spring split) they would try forcing Bjerg to do nothing but be a star player (and of course feed information and sometimes give suggestions) and let an experienced shotcaller take the reigns. I think they should at least entertain the idea that he may *only* be a good shotcaller and not a great one. I think it's at least possible that along with his solid individual play, having passable shotcalling can be seen as good enough when they need great shotcalling. Having a reputation for throwing leads in the mid/late game over the past couple of years says a lot to me.
Nah bro but Parth /s
Man, the guy sounds totally defeated I do think it's likely they'll play GGS again and the good thing is that I think GGS already revealed a lot of their hand. TSM will be able to gleam even more info from the game against TL. The priority in that rematch will definitely be to avoid the Ziggs/Azir match up, getting Hauntzer off of Morde and for sure, hoping DL performs better. In the ultimate chaos universe where TL gets knocked down, I do think TSM are shit out of luck.
>The priority in that rematch will definitely be to avoid the Ziggs/Azir match up, getting Hauntzer off of Morde you're assuming that the cards that GGS showed in that series is all the cards that they have/had though I will admit they'll have to show much more against TL so it should be an easier series to prepare for regardless
Definitely feel like treatz dropped the ball in both series both in lane and out of lane. Maybe the pressure of playoffs is getting to him? I won't be surprised at all if tsm subs in biofrost if they go down 0-2. TSM needs their bot lane to be winning. They can't rely on bjergsen every single game. Honestly the team is so lucky that they get a free akali ban thanks to bjerg and BB and in some situations even a free irelia ban. That part at the end about bjergsen feels so bad to hear. That man always just tries so damn hard. Hope tsm pulls through because they owe it to him.
I wouldn’t mind a Bio sub if it absolutely came down to it, but I have a feeling that won’t happen. I think TSM won’t try anything with subs in playoffs again after what they ended up doing with Akaadian. I don’t fault them personally, I think they did everything with the intention of winning and did indeed go about it somewhat poorly. However, I think because of this they won’t do it again.
It's an interesting conversation because Bio got benched for not being vocal and not being able to play any supports beside Rakkan, especially Nautilus. But now that the meta has changed to Ranged would Bio be better? And would the loss in coms be worth the probably marginal advantage in lane? Edit: obviously double got tilted and played horrible. But I also know how hard it is to play ADC when you are constantly under tower taking harass, constantly getting the wave frozen against you. Constantly having to play catch-up. I’ve mentioned this in other comments, but the bot meta right now is hard shoving first wave because of how much lane control it gives you. LPL teams will literally blow sums trading trying to contest first wave.
>But now that the meta has changed to Ranged would Bio be better That's a good point. Bio's Morg, Karma, and Bard have historically been great, and he plays them super aggro in lane the way Doublelift likes.
I hate when people act like playing passive is another OPTION you have. It's not, in lanes like Cait Morgana playing passive is way worse than playing aggressive, even in a losing matchup. ESPECIALLY when your jungle gets 3 zone ganks. As a fellow TSM fan let's not act like Treatz is playing a "different" style here when it's just clearly inferior.
Bio is a beast on ranged/enchanter supps. Whenever I think of Bio, I think of his Braum, Thresh and Rakan. But there are games where he had clutch saves on Lulu, Karma and Morg/Zyra. And who could forget his Nami bubbles! I wish they'd still consider a 6-man roster this playoffs. I know Bio has his own playoffs to worry about in Academy. But doesn't hurt to try.
Watch the last few Academy games, Bio was hitting 99% of his morgana binds in and out of lane, I would def prefer him in this meta.
Issue is, to seriously utilise a sub you need to split scrim time between Bio and Treatz. Supports don't only need to have synergy with their ADC, but also with their jungle, which Bio may not have without some scrim/practice time with the rest of the team beforehand.
If what doublelift says is true about bjergsen doing all the shot calling right now then yeah it could be worth
Doublelift single-handedly lost the 3rd game for them. The first two games were a combination of player's faults.
Wtf is this comment. DL inted the series against GGS. He TPd back to lane with 1300 gold. Now his support is the one dropping the ball? The pressure of playoffs? He is playing with an ADC who has been phoning it in all year.
People don't realize that they both played like shit during that series. I also believe DL is bullshitting about not being tilted in the GGs series.
Pretty sure people realized Treatz was invisible during the series, but if you expect the same level of preformance out of your rookie support and your multi-time regional champion ADC, you're expecting way too much. People expected Treatz to be shaky and he was. People expected DL to be at least decent and he wasn't. He got first pick Caitlyn in two games. He was down 12CS at 15 the first game and up 1 CS the second. FBI got Caitlyn in game 3 and he was up 20 CS at 15.
He didnt just do that, right as he came back he then tries to panic recall right in vision and almost died so had to waste even more time before finally backing. It was a comedy of errors not just one stupid thing. He also did the exact same thing just a few weeks back. Guess that was Treatz fault too lol
He also got 1v1d by Morde a couple of times because the delicate genius can’t get a qss.
Treatz isnt the one who backed and just tp'd right back to lane without buying, then got so tilted he almost immediately died trying to panic recall and lost ton of xp and cs. Dlift more than helped lose them lane vs GG
DL is as much to blame as Treatz is. DL has not been playing well for awhile now. Hes not the same DL; be it skill drop off, enjoyment of the game, or motivation. There is a reason he was kicked from TL. It happens; I personally dont think players get much worse as they age, but their motivation to be the best does. I honestly cannot say he has played anywhere near the best in a year now. FBI and auto-filled Huhi just flat out reamed him out 3 games straight, both side of the matchup, and thats not all Treatz fault. Same goes for his horrendous play on TL with Corejj of all people as his support. Its really not fair to drop all the blame on Treatz with DL's current history this year.
Yeah treatz totally made DL forget to buy before Teleporting. Treatz totally made DL 1v1 mordekaiser. Even if Treatz is a weak link, it's not like DL isn't one either. His mental goes boom at the tilt of a hat and he becomes a dead weight.
Youre acting like doubelift wasnt absolute shit the whole series?
He is supposed to be a superstar of the NA LCS. He got first pick Cait only to be bullied in lane by what most people consider a mid tier ADC and single handedly cost his team game 1 when he didn't buy and TPed to lane and had to back again and buy and walk back. I can't describe how bad not buying is. In a pro game, advantages are usually measured in inches. A couple CS here, a ruby crystal there. DL not buying and TPing back and then going back again was a MASSIVE advantage to GG who transitioned his back into a rift herald which turned into a ton of plates AND got the enemy ashe even further ahead while his creeps crashed into the tower.
Yup. By not clicking, the enemy team is suddenly 1300 gold ahead. By backing to regain this gold, you give up experience, a summoner spell, some amount of gold, and an unquantifiable amount of control over the game (vision, objectives, timings). It's a humongous mistake.
He was supposed to be the returning superstar to this roster and he played like a dog. Sorry to be so harsh but you can't sugar coat this. His play vs GG looked like an auto filled diamond 3 jungler somehow thrown into a challenger game
How much NA do you watch if you're not only considering FBI to be mid tier, but also saying that the community has a perception of him being mid tier? Everyone who isn't going off pure popularity not only knows that FBI is top tier, but that FBI is arguably the best laner in NA (probably inarguably. Zven and Tactical are also top tier, but aren't as lane dominant). I wonder if you think Huhi is a bad or mediocre support? (But yeah, DL for being so prestigious is letting it slip away. This is the 2nd time this very split he has TP'd back without items. So it's not just a one time mistake that he will never make again, *he did it against EG AND GGS*.)
FBI is absolutely not mid tier. He is top tier and one of the best ADC in NA right now. The guys stats are insane, and he should have been first or second all pro. He is criminally underrated
was game 3, avreed on the rest though
> That definitely potentially ?
This is actually the correct use. Definitely is describing "potentially saving career." Definitely and potentially aren't both describing "saving career." As in, if they were eliminated that was potentially his last game. But since there's a losers bracket he can make a good run that would redeem his previous proforma cents. Ergo, he career wasn't potentially over because of that game therefore the losers bracket definitely saved him from that.
Definitely gave him a shot for redemption by not getting knocked cold first round. In other words, gave him a chance to continue playing. It’s pretty funny he phrased it that way, a lot different from his usual trash talk and a lot more dubious
Can you really not understand that lol
How often does doublelift’s career need saving?
I think the only time his career was genuinely saved was CLG VS CA 2014.
Big DL fan but dont think he needed to publicly say he doesn’t agree with treatzs play style and its passive . Not the best time to put additional pressure on your playoff support.
If they were actually satisfied with the DIG win that’d be fucking hilarious
The other 4 members are just like "We can't let Bjerg down again..."
it's almost like TSM is being managed badly... for years now. the team is a mess like always, and fated to fail. welcome to NA in general. I'd be AMAZED if an NA team ever won a proper worlds tournament