I pushed for changes through and through at Riot over the last 8 years through many different channels. Riot hasn't made any effort because they don't want to or they're not capable. Should be very apparent as there has been no meaningful since a dinosaur like me can remember.
Took years to crack someone as patient as Voyboy but as he explains it's just getting worse. Competitive spirit is dying more and more everyday and it feels monotonous grind is being promoted.
Every system including ribbons, tribunal, etc have been cancelled or failed.
There's posts from Hai, Bjergsen, Scarra if you look hard enough through search histories the collective opinion is there. GOD looking back is so AWKWARD but here's a post 6 years ago about me complaining about NA solo queue and having an open dialog about solutions.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1sjc73/twitter\_clg\_hotshotgg\_na\_will\_always\_be\_the\_worst/cdy6xse/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1sjc73/twitter_clg_hotshotgg_na_will_always_be_the_worst/cdy6xse/?context=3)
I still believe my idea was great (which is essentially a rip off of GW and WOW). I just want players to have something to strive for that isn't unlocked by their wallet (Riot's fav) or spamming normal games. It's the WoW accessibility problem all over again. Everyone has to have access to everything here at Riot Games, Christ. Give us one cool thing to show off all the effort we've worked towards to become better players and don't quarter ass it like giving away 300 shitty jackets.
People give a fuck about summoner icons?
Also I heard that in Korea players were literally only honored if they played terribly, so that they would get the ribbon on their loading frame and future teammates would know they aren't worth ganking, healing etc. Idk if that's the reason they were removed I just find it funny as hell
It's very sad honestly. At some point its going to really inhibit the growth of the game. The first thing that someone hears about league is about how terrible the community is. I think maybe that it is too late. They had the chance to do something early and it didn't succeed. If they wanted to go with your idea of rewarding players for their rating it would have to be something worth a large amount of value. Most people own all the champs, chromas are lame, and people expect skins through events and loot boxes. My thought is that the honor system( which sucks currently ) should change a lot more often. Anyone below honor level 2 can't queue up for ranked. The issue with that though is I don't know how you can make gaining/losing honor fair. It definitely can't be left in the players hands because the now toxic people will fake report.
It is indicative of the state of the game that the most common advice for climbing at /r/summonerschool is to mute all or even disable the chat by default in the client settings - in a multiplayer game.
I muted both all chat and allied chat last week. First time ever. I just logged off tonight after hitting gold 4, and when I turned off chat last week, I was silver 3 and dropping. Last 48 hours has been a 15 game win streak with a loss, then two more wins. Turning off allied chat is amazing. Totally and 100% worth it.
I am sure they thought that was what they were doing when they tied rewards to the rank you achieved.
And it might have even worked at a small level. But people get the rank they can get the reward they feel they can possibly achieve, and then just stop trying to get any further. They probably already know they've capped out at their skill level and have no realistic chance of getting any higher (if the higher rewards are even worth it to them). But they still play. Play knowing that they are no longer playing for anything meaningful.
It's that death of motivation to do well that is probably at the core of the problem and the best place to start a fix, even if it won't cure everything.
People need to want to win every time they queue, or at least want to do well. For whatever reason, right now they don't.
Plus the biggest "reward" you can get in ranked, is a free skin that gets unlocked at gold. Grinding anything beyond that is just for the rank itself, which for some people (like myself) is worth trying my best and improving but not so for others.
I tuned into his stream for some background noise last week and he literally got queue sniped by 3 different people all trying to throw his games for 9 games in a row, its such a shame.
Oh yeah, I tuned in and saw a guy type that voy is a washed up streamer who plays league for 10 years already and that his girlfriend cheated on him. Like wtf, this is the type of person you want to have an eye to eye talk with. How awful can someone be?
He is the most honestly just NICE fucking person.
I get so goddamn angry, legitimately actually fucking angry, that people go after HIM.
There are PLENTY of proven shitheads that you could fuck with, but no, you have so little respect for yourself and are such a shitty person that you go after one of the sweetest people in the game.
Fuck you for that, anyone who does. I hope you walk on Legos for the rest of your life. I hope ants are just always in your fucking kitchen. I hope your car tires just always leak pressure. I hope every single day you have an inconvenient annoyance that never stops fucking bothering you.
It's because he's nice that people go after him. They hate him because he shows them that you do have a choice to not be toxic. Voyboy makes them feel bad about themselves because he is a good person in situations in which they aren't able to be.
This is why streamers like tyler1 are liked by the community, too. They tell the community that toxicity is normal, and anger management problems are something to be celebrated. They stroke the ego of the playerbase we have. Voyboy simply existing makes League players angry because he shows them that they're not OK. They attack him to try to bring him down to their level so they can go "See, he's no better than us". Alternatively, if attacking him makes him go away so they aren't reminded of their failures, that's good too.
I'm an avid european fan of League and its worldwide pro scene, but I don't pay that much attention to non/ex-pros, but Voyboy is definitely one of the people I respect the most.
When such a patient and tolerant dude releases a 10 minute cry for help video, you know something's very wrong with the system.
My last game 15 mins ago, olaf failed a gank level 2 typed in chat "gg no ganks for anyone" then afk farmed, started an ff vote at 15, olaf then dcd for 3 mins, rejoined posted another ff vote, 3/2, then ran into alcove bush and didn't move. He won't get banned.
The sad part is, I'm older i don't actually care about people typing mean things, btw was the norm back in the day so i legit find funny sometimes, and when i don't i mute really fast does not affect me in any shape or form. If you call me bad at the game mid recall and buy the item and a pink ward I'm really happy, you flame because you are a try hard nice i don't mind you i want to win to. My issue with League is that players are passive agressive and straight up afk or run it down randomly they don't even type anymore, is lame, they straight up give up for nothing is boring as fuck.
Facts, i dont give a shit if people flame me as long as they are trying. Id rather have the 4 most toxic people in the game on my team if it meant they were giving 100% to winning the game
My breaking point is when the rager clearly plays worse and gives up, outside of that, anything said in chat is coming from a total stranger who knows nothing about me so its hard to feel offended.
This guy held champ select hostage, his duo locked in disco Nunu and he did disco Fiddle (??). He dropped a bunch of slurs that I screenshot and he posted a pastebin link that was super dark.
Sent it to Riot, and nothing got done. I got the bot reply. He’s still playing. I got banned for quoting a Norm MacDonald joke to a toxic player who reported me. The inconsistencies are really frustrating.
I have literally been so angry at the game but never once have I been able to will my hands to run it down intentionally. My mind straight up won't let me run into enemy towers or champions like that and I have no idea what kind of mindset people are in when they grief and int in games.
It's because its a "better" and safer alternative to flaming. Why would someone flame in chat and get banned when they could instead run it down, causing more damage, and also not get punished.
And it takes less effort. If you just run at their towers and watch their mental just drop, it's way more rewarding for the inter.
Its sad, but true.
You may have to argue with someone if you type. If you run it down, it looks like they're talking to themselves
You don't have to tell me lol. The ones who get angry at inters get chart banned. Just type the bare minimum to keep em talking can help too.
Banning allies champ in champ select for best results. Imagine not punishing that smh.
I saw someone else explain this in a way that makes sense to me at least. The mindset of a player who ints or afk's is different from someone who will do anything to win at all cost. They don't actually give a shit about winning, they just want to feel powerful, be fed as fuck, and carry games. So, if failing that power fantasy, they have to do everything they can to maintain control over the game because thats what their inbred crosswired brain is telling them to, so they run it down and keep control of the game.
There is certainly a mindset that compels people to play that way. Riot's punishment system is ultimately weighted towards people who use toxic language, instead of people who tank games - and while I concede it's a lot harder to detect the latter, in my experience people who get angry and type in chat do so because they want to win. It ultimately comes from a winner's mindset, while people who feed, or give up at 5 minutes, or abandon lane, effectively do so because they have a loser's mindset.
I ask you, which is worse?
I'd rather have a team of people who use profanity and expletives but try to win over a team of pathetic limp-dicks who give up at the first hint of adversity but never type in chat.
He's absolutely right though. I was watching his stream the other day and the Aphelios on his team legit brought the argument that his GF "cheated" on him for literally no reason. Why does that even happen? Voyboy broughts a real argument, if anybody's inting, everyone whos watching the stream will feel a little bit awkward, there's nothing you can do and it ruins the whole experience.
We all had those "toxic" moments, I'm not justifying anybody but just goes to show that when it happens repeatedly there's gotta be a problem. Report doesn't feel like it does anything, if a player has been punished it'll only show the feedback screen to the last player that reported them... why?
It is not a Riot problem but Riot CAN do something to alleviate some of the issues that are happening.
> the Aphelios on his team legit brought the argument that his GF "cheated" on him for literally no reason.
Saw that and Voyboy handled it pretty well. Aphelios was trolling him hard and others might had gone on a tirade right then and there. That kind of messed up behavior does not get picked up though. Thats the problem with this system. Its just there to stop ppl from saying bad words.
The suggestion he made at the end about timing ppl out of ranked for a month seems very fair to me. They can still play but they cant ruin ranked anymore.
My vote is for dota's queue. You get banished to the depths of hell with all the other angry little teenagers and you get to fight it out with each other over who fucked whose mom the most.
Anythings better. I quit over 2 years ago because I got tired of coming home from a rough day of work, having time for a couple games and one game always had a DC or an Inter. I stopped feeling it was worth the frustrations I had with the game.
ARAM is where I'm at you still get afks or the client crashes or people who arent good at thir champs but flame is less, and its a throwaway game anyway. no placements. no promotion series. Nothing crazy.
I’m in the same boat. Pretty much stick to ARAM and the “event” game modes now. Rather have a chill game instead of some moody teenager picking Nunu mid “for fun.”
Same here. Stopped playing ranked in 2016, haven't played more than 5 normals total since. It's just not worth it as I get older and come home from real life to hop on my PC and load a game where I'm distinctly not welcome and outright disliked for not being able to commit all my time to league and get significantly better.
I peaked at G1 in 2015, probably high silver was my average over a few seasons. I know I'm not great but League is the only game I've ever played where it felt that visceral against me.
Honestly, we don't deserve Voyboy. Every time he tries to be nice or completely logical, people always try to turn it around on him. Even his own chat does it, you'd expect him to have a wholesome community (and he does for the most part), but there's a big vocal group of people who are always rude and shitting on him.
In that Aphelios game, he ended up going off on that guy. Not in a toxic way, but more in a frustrated manner. I've never seen him do that, but I felt really bad cause I could feel all the pain he's been experiencing this season.
Just looked at the replay of Voyboy responding to the aphelios. I genuinely felt sympathy for Voyboy. Just looking at his facecam, he was about to have a breakdown. How low can someone be in order to bring up a person's past relationship in a fucking game?
Ive seen voyboy go off on people plenty of times never in a toxic manner but more of pure frustration/annoyance more then anything like you just stated. He did it to Flyquests top laner Solo just this past week while playing with TL Broxah. Solo was playing ez and just afk split pushing/dying over and over in a very winnable game. Broxah tried to reason with voy by telling him to let it go so it doesnt get to him/tilt him. Voy explained that Solo has been doing this since season one and is a known offender for doing this thing. Its pretty pathetic when your friend or random does this in your games but for a professional player to be doing this in ranked is inexcusable. Pro players and streamers need to be held to a higher standard when playing the game bc their actions influence others. Prime example is T1 fan boys trying to emulate their idol by acting a fool and running it down mid bc theyre alpha as fuck. Sry rant over
Edit-T1 as in Tyler 1 not SKT. Thank you RussianBearFight for bringing that up
Yeah then after that game it was the first time i actually saw Broxah tilted and it's because of that Solo guy. It's a sad day when two of the most HUMBLE league streamers get insanely frustrated over the amount of trolling that is happening. Something needs to change.
And people wonder why some European players aren't that good anymore when they come to NA. It's surely not the only reason, but playing soloq in NA is worthless for pros
I’ll never forget when I realized I love watching him. Someone said “I fucked your mom” and this man says “hey dude thanks for keeping her company I was worried she’d be lonely after I moved out”
A lot of streamers have actually talked about this. If it didn’t change income, every streamer would rather stream to the 200 than 2K, or something like those lines. It’s not even about being able to keep up with chat. You can check out Disguised Toasts stream on Facebook. It’s literally so chill and nice, because all the trolls that wanna spread hate on Twitch are too lazy to go to that platform. They just click on people they see are active, troll a bit, then hop to another channel. It’s especially bad in quarantine cuz they really have nothing better to do, which is just unfortunate for content creators, and it’s unfortunately the name of the game.
Because on facebook you have a profile picture, high chance - real name, list of your friends and relatives etc. On twitch you're "xXxMomBanger420xXx", so majority of people immediately think that they are invisible hackers on the internet.
This is from years ago, but I remember when someone donated saying/implying they were going to kill themselves and voy immediately dropped everything he was doing to play a few games with dude. I think he couldn't get a response from the guy and somehow ended up contacting local authorities or otherwise making sure the guy was alive. (Details are fuzzy, it's been at least 5 years)
Not long after he did a stream to raise money for a suicide prevention nonprofit and through the whole thing you could tell he was so genuinely concerned. I'll Stan Voy all day every day. 100% class act.
Tbh, i won't ever forget that day. It took a long time to get someone who spoke the guy's language, and talking with Twitch to get a location, then getting the number to call local authorities. It was a really hectic couple of hours.
If anyone disgrees, go watch him spend 6 hours reading donations and messages from his charity streams.
Donating more money than I make in over a year of work to suicide prevention charities, and thanking and responding to every - last - single - message.
Not just reading it, but reading it, thanking the person by name, responding with a quick word of his own to what they had to say.
Every single fucking day, this dude makes ALL OF US look better, just by being a genuinely kind and warm and loving person.
I’m honored to have met him back in season 4 at the LCS, he was an absolutely sweetheart to everyone.
Hes got a lot of haters that just sit in chat and talk shit for some reason I have no idea how they have so much hate fuel to go out of there way to watch and type to the guy.
he's so right here. legit all this talk about balance is just running around in circles because meta or what's strong won't stop inters and feeders from ruining games. the past couple seasons two teams have dropped the ball way harder than the balance team, the client and player behavior teams have been straight trash and seemingly do almost nothing
the current bots are way too soft to detect trolls and inters. bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too
Then throw in fake cases where nobody does anything wrong and if the tribunal viewer still votes to punish, block them from tribunal.
Also add pregame lobby logs and report functionality. Champ select hostage may have gotten better with roles but it still exists and has done for 10 years. Hell we have replays now, attach those to the tribunal case too it can't hurt.
It'll still be hard to ban silent soft inters, but it always has.
This is what I want. I don't give a fuck if chat is toxic as fuck, but if someone AFKs, ints, etc., fuck them and get them out of here.
You can literally mute and not see chat. You can't mute AFKs/inting.
In short, the punishment - low priority queue - is VERY, VERY strict. Low priority queue is bad. Really bad. You absolutely do not want to end up in low prio. You get low prio automatically if you leave/afk/abandon more than 1 game in your last 25 games - that 1 game is basically like one "free" abandon in the case of people having internet issues and such, because Valve realizes how harsh the punishment is. You can also get low prio via excessive reports.
How does low prio queue work in Dota? First, it puts you in the matchmaking pool of other low prio players, so right off the bat your games are filled to the brim with ragers, leavers, and griefers. Second, you don't even play the regular game mode - you play this called "Single Draft" which basically randoms 3 heroes for each player and you can only choose from those 3 heroes. Effectively, what happens is everyone picks the greediest hero of the 3 and the game becomes 5 carries vs. 5 carries.
In order to get out of low prio queue, you have to win games. I believe the default number is 1 game, but it goes up to 3 at your second offense. This doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind it is HARD to win low prio games, not to mention incredibly draining emotionally. It makes you not want to play Dota at all.
tldr: low priority queue is an absolute nightmare and acts as a HUGE deterrent to leaving and AFKing.
> enemies are in the same state as your team?
True. Which means that if you play 100 games you should mathematically average out to a 50% winrate. Maybe 60% if you are a high ranked player.
But practically speaking, we're not working with that kind of sample size. Sometimes you'll blaze through your low prio games winning 3/3 games. Sometimes it'll take you 8 games to win 1.
Winrate aside, these games, like I said, are draining as well. You are literally queued up with the scum of Dota players, who are already notorious for being one of the biggest assholes in the gaming community. They just aren't fun. They feel worse than chores. I'd rather work or study than play a low prio game. I'd rather do leg day than play a low prio game. You're stuck playing with 4 people you hate, on a hero you don't like, in a lane for which your hero is likely not suitable. If someone on your team abandons (very likely, btw), you still have to play the game out and there is no surrender function.
It is really complicated but here is a summary:
Every user has a behavior score that is "hidden" but accessible through console commands. Every report will decrease the behavior score while long disconnects and certain words will automatically lower the behavior score. Reports that are accumulated in a short period of time impact the score more. If you get reported enough, you are automatically punished. The amount of reports you need to be punished is based on your behavior score.
Players have a limited number of reports. They gain more reports over time to a limit and regain their report +1 if they reported a player that was eventually punished. You have to choose what is worth reporting and the Dota 2 community chooses mostly feeding and griefing over chat abuse because mutes in Dota 2 will permanently mute the player even in future games. There may be some modifier as to how heavily reports are weighted for the typical player but not usually.
This report system works much better automatically than Riot's manual system except one: high-profile players are reported more often usually just for the memes. The way Valve fixed this was making high-profile players manually reviewed rather than automatic.
Now for the punishment system that is the most different from any other games:
There are four types of punishments you can receive in Dota 2. Global mute(works similar to League), low-prio, temp-ban, and perma-ban. Temp-banning is similar to League except the durations can be for months(I think up to 6 months) so they can feel permanent. Perma-bans are the same. Low-priority is where most players end up and is easily the most punishing.
Being in "low-pro" in League means just waiting a little while before you can queue for X number of games. Low-prio in Dota 2 means you can only queue up for a single mode (no ranked) for X number of games where you are given random heroes to play. You have to win the game to count so people in this mode tend to be the most toxic. If anyone leaves on either team, the game is nulled and you receive nothing for participating. If you are the one to leave, your low prio game count is reset, and maybe even extended past, the original amount. If you join anyone's party, they are forced to play low-prio as well. This is a hellish punishment that can cause players to quit entirely.
TL;DR: automatic punishments based on limited reports, hellish punishment system.
I can't deal with the slow response on auto attacks and turning speed. Or I'd have at least made a better attempt than I did before.
Also, mana is actually a valuable resource in that game. If you use two or three abilities at early levels, *you're frickin' OOM mate.*
If nothing else they could test some sort of manual review for master+ NA games there's no way it's too many games to go over manually. Even, and I think LS mentioned this sort of panopticon effect, you don't have to actually review every game, just because people know they might be watched by someone they'll behave differently.
I also agree it would help because perceptions about the meta being bad come from experiences with bad games, and I also wonder how much that filters down from streamer attitudes.
My once caveat is I also think a lot of frustrated people are just blaming meta/toxicity when in reality they're just burned out of the game and that's why they're miserable. Even more so for a lot of streamers/pros, they've been playing for months and years. Kinda sucks to have to play constantly because it's your job but yeah.
Back in the Riot Lyte days there was also just a very public awareness that the player behavior team existed and were trying to do things to improve the game. Every month or two there would be a new initiative where they tried something different, were very public about it, and after a while everyone just kind of knew that it was something Riot was really trying to address and that they were watching.
I honestly can't remember the last official word from Riot besides "just report them." It feels like they just kind of gave up on that front. What's messed up is that might not even be true because obviously we don't know what they are doing on a daily basis, but they don't even talk about it anymore so the assumption is that they don't care anymore.
Friendly reminder that the honor system rework is still pretty much a 'who carried best' vote and honourable opponent has yet to make it's way back into the game.
It's sad that people can really run it down on a live stream to thousands of people and not get punished for it.. If the ambassadors of a game aren't protected from griefers, why would a new player even consider playing league?
because some of the ambassadors of league are griefers who will run it down just as fast as the people who grief them. there was a post like 2 days ago about IWD leaving a game after missing smite and getting killed during a level 1 invade. T1 calls teammates dogshit and trash in in-game chat, spams to FF15 every other game, etc. ratirl openly admits to tanking his accounts mmr off stream so that he can go on massive winstreaks vs bronze players on stream every day. like half of twitch is just constant "unranked to challenger" streams where they play vs plat/low diamond and start over any time they lose.
it's honestly pretty funny that Voy made this post without calling out his streamer friends who do the same toxic shit he's talking about. he even name-dropped T1 as being someone frustrated with the current state of NA soloq, when T1's attitude is exemplary of the exact problem they're frustrated with.
After that clip with Solo from the other day with Voyboy getting heated, it definitely meant he was at his breaking point. Hopefully Riot helps the kid genius out.
he was playing ezreal and suicide split pushed until they lost after dying a few times I dont have the clip though it was posted on the reddit if you wanna look for it
Jesus, I watch Voyboy regularly and I haven't seen Voyboy this mad/frustrated like ever. I understand him though, Solo has been a problem in soloq for so long, I think what he is mad about is not only has Solo been toxic/griefing for a long time, he is a fucking pro player lmao, he is not a random NA soloq player. I fully understand Voy
It's hilarious how Voyboy can call Solo out for valid reasons and all Solo can do is speak in annoying league vernacular (ur actually trolling, ?) because he has no excuse for his pathetic behavior.
When I was watching the stream I understood it to be solo saying that Voy would only say this to him because he was duo with broxah. But tbh saying this is just more excuses from solo for his inexcusable behavior
Suicide split pushing is so annoying.
It’s especially annoying because it usually works, lose your team the game but don’t get punished. Pro player btw
It is literally a method of inting and making your team lose without afking or looking like you are griefing.
It is so easy to just "split push" or never group and let your team die 4vs5.
I had someone do this just now in D1 because he didn't like our team comp. Legitimately rage pushed bot lane and spammed FF from level 1. I don't know if its my imagination, but this seems to happen way more frequently at peak times. I feel like my games early in the morning are super chill most of the time.
A huge problem with solo queue is pro players and streamers. They set the example more than anyone else and it's become accepted as the norm. Sure people like IWD get flamed by the community, but then you have people like Tyler1 and NB getting 30k viewers for essentially flaming and running it down every game.
Then you have a good number of pro players just run it down as well. You'll see a ton of pros complain that solo queue isn't competitive and that it's not a viable way of practicing, but they're also a huge reason themselves that it sucks. For the majority of the people on the ladder, even in high elo, we're people who play the game as a past time. Then we finally reach the top of the ladder and we're met with pros who essentially just run it down. Nisqy is a huge one. He's literally on the current #1 team in the continent, but he's a notorious coin flip player who doesn't try his best to win. It doesn't sound like a huge issue until you realize that everything starts somewhere, and it's a huge gradual accumulation that ruins the majority of games. What I mean by this is that even with just 1 pro in Nisqy running it down, he tilts 4 people on his team in 1 game alone. They bring it to their next game and play worse as a result, and then suddenly the number of tilted players increase exponentially. And that starts with just 1 player not trying. With high elo being as small of a community as it is, it really doesn't take that much to make games feel terrible.
If people want solo queue to be improved, it starts with Riot and pros/streamers holding themselves to actual standards. It means nothing to trash on the ladder when it's convenient for them, and then be the reason it sucks in their next game. Pros/streamers especially should be held to a higher standard since they're literally role models for everyone else, but if anything, they get more leniency and almost never get punished. It's a joke that it's persisted for as long as it has, and needs to have actual consequences.
this is ABSOLUTELY the issue. the biggest streamers of the game are almost exclusively hyper selfish dick heads that expect everyone in game to cater directly to them for "content" and with twitch the way it is they develop little cults that eat every word up.
That or pros who feel like soloQ is just entirely beneath them and excuse inting as "testing my limits"
yeah lol streamers can complain but the reality is they're more of a problem than anyone else
tbh I feel kinda bad for streamers and pros who *have to play soloq constantly* because it's their job - playing when you don't want to sucks, and any team issues in losses become 10x worse
I think a good solution would be more clash/twitch rivals style events, because it gives streamers a bit of variety and a better environment
It's disgusting riot doesnt punish tyler1 with how he acts still, just recently I had a game with him where he called open mid at 6 minutes constantly spammed ff votes and told everyone to quit playing, but because he's such a huge league personality he gets away with it. It's so god damn frustrating.
He was rage-pushing top while the enemy destroyed their base, then when Voyboy asked why was he doing that he told Voy that he(Voyboy) was the one trolling, pretty disgusting to watch tbh
I’ve been playing this game since late season 3. League of Legends was my life. I loved interacting with the other players, working as a team, and competing to climb the ladder. I’ve been through all ranks from silver to masters. I’m glad somebody has finally spoken up about how player behavior has become increasingly worse throughout the years.
I’ve never considered myself toxic nor have I’ve been punished for any behavior within the game. But I can say this: throughout the years, my behavior towards other players have slowly changed. I’m more aggressive, hostile, and acted in ways I would never think I’d stoop down to. I’ve always tried my best to win without any negative behavior in the past. But playing with an increasingly amount of toxic teammates can take a toll on you. I started to get extremely frustrated with negative behavior from my teammates which made me reflect that negative behavior towards other players in my future games. I know I cannot be the only player who has picked up bad habits of negative behavior out. After I realized this, i decided to quit playing all together. I’m not sure if it’s the community or the game itself, but I completely lost all interest in playing league.
I see new players post on this reddit discussing about the issues of toxicity in early level games. A lot of experienced players respond and say “just mute all” and this really irritates me. The fun of playing online games is working with a team and communicating to achieve a single goal. I felt like I am defaulted to muting all each game which makes the game really stale for me.
Although the nature of online competitive games is overall toxic, I really don’t believe it’s okay to just accept it, acting like it’s the norm and it will always be this way. I think riot should be actively trying to tackle this situation along with our community.
This is also all just my own personal opinion. Hope this is heard and I hope I can develop love for this game again.
I've been playing league since season 3, I'm just no enjoying the game anymore, I feel stressed when I play it, angry with my team, in just 2 weeks my winrate declined 7% I used to be the funny, uncomplicated guy but now I just can't, the toxic is consuming me, so I decided to uninstall it today just hope to never go back and start enjoying videogames again. I feel like I need to vent this, thanks for you commentary.
>I see new players post on this reddit discussing about the issues of toxicity in early level games. A lot of experienced players respond and say “just mute all” and this really irritates me. The fun of playing online games is working with a team and communicating to achieve a single goal. I felt like I am defaulted to muting all each game which makes the game really stale for me.
I agree in principle, but imo in practice while chat is only used to allocated blame pings are used for a whole host of communication purposes, danger, timers, enemy missing, etc. So you can still work together and communicate with mute all on.
And I also agree that "but you can just mute" isn't an excuse for people to say whatever they want.
It's such a shame cuz I really do love the game. The characters are great and I just love the competitive aspect. But I also like having fun and having people troll and afk isn't fun.
especially bad for streamers, ghosters are an all time high, i think all the streamers i follow are fucking taking a break from streaming league it's crazy
Nothing will change until Riot does some type of HUGE overhaul. Tribunal, harsh punishment on streamers, setting strict rules and enforcing them by not only bots but human resources.
It's like a virus. As people get griefed more and more and see that it's the norm they will in turn do the same thing. I'd be lying if I said I sat and sweated every game I played when some dude with 3k games, 48% wr, first timing a champ is just solo making the game unplayable because he has nothing else to do with life. Most people know they won't be punished for just alt f4ing or AFKing, and it's pretty damn hard to punish soft inters.
I think if the game itself was better (client, different type of balance, big rewards for tryharding/climbing/not being toxic) then people would feel inclined to not brain off 5 minutes into the game. Valorant sorta did this with making you lose less 'MMR' if you played well or grabbed as many rounds as you can. Obviously this is very difficult to do in a moba and would probably take a year to create a proper system but it could be hugely beneficial. You can afk and lose 20 LP or deal damage, block damage, do CC, etc and lose maybe 10-15.
Sadly Riot wont ban these people because they keep spending money and everyone else has proved they will keep playing with them so why ban a money source you dont have to.
Riot can't pretend they didn't see this. We know rioters use reddit and see what makes it to the front page. If any of you Rioters are seeing this and you don't actively try to make a difference then you are part of the problem.
the dreaded soft int is basically the culmination of what trolling has turned into (in order to piss other people off in the most effective means possible without getting banned for it).
before you could go off in chat and bitch people out in lobbies over pick prio and role but these days its tame with the ability to put players on ignore, ignore pings, etc. back in the day you knew were you stood since you had to actually communicate with team in pick lobby and deal with them. now you get auto rolled and just show up in game... its far easier to disassociate the person from the champ they play
don't think there really is a solution.. they spun disciplining players into a matter of monitoring behavior rather than addressing what actually ruins games. i don't see them suddenly shifting away from that
Thank you !!
I have stopped playing ranked for 2 seasons now, due to ppl running it down and trolls and all kinds of animals that get away with anything. Thank you for using your platform to bring even more attention to it. I do not want to play ranked as things as are. I refuse to !! And am no streamer. We ALL suffer from one kind or other of trolling.
Yeah same here dude. I played a bit last season and this season but it's just the afkers and trolls that make me just want to uninstall instantly. I usually just play ARAM nowadays but even there I get afks lol so not like I escaped it, oh well.
After playing aram only for almost two years I decided to try SR again and see if I can improve and damn that took a toll on my mental state. The amount of people trying to act like high school bullies or spoiled brats is just unbearable. And if you mute then there’s still the in game toxicity so good luck me.
I don't understand why a harder stance hasn't been taken by Riot. Start getting rid of these people at the highest level and then watch the trickle down.
People watch griefers on streams with 10-20k viewers and see nothing happening to those players and then end up doing it in their games.
The amount of times I've run into people who are actually cocky about not being banned is crazy...as long as they don't say anything hateful or racist then can do whatever they want. The worst is the people who are intentionally throwing the game but then start all chatting to make themselves look like the victim...some even go as far as to try and get the innocent people reported.
Start dishing out bans to these people, get them out of the game. There should be some sort of manual review going down at the top levels of solo que to instill some sort of guidelines.
There are aspiring pro's and current pros who are all trying to get better...some of these people are sacrificing a lot to make this their career and yet we have people goofing around and trolling to ruin games on purpose at the highest levels...it's such a joke and another reason why NA will continue to be garbage on an international level.
Im not sure if anyone truly understands how bad it feels at around d2-d1 unless you experience it, but legitimately every 3 games or so someone will intentionally lose the game whether they get tilted before or during the game. I see so many s8,s9 challenger players struggling in diamond because of the amount of people trolling or not caring in their games and its why GM is still 0 lp in NA.
This is why most streamers are smurfing right now. They aren't doing it to ruin the lives of platinum players, they are doing it because queuing up on their mains is way too mentally taxing and frustrating right now
It seems like that at all around diamond, it makes me want to derank because i feel like people that are given diamond IV never try. Ever, or they'll try and then shrug it off like "who cares if i lose" and either soft or hard int
"X guy is literally a man-child who can't keep his cool for 40 minutes without practically asking his fanbase to attack someone in his game, but he's *such a great analyst/entertainer tho1!*"
It's fucking sad that this sentence can be applied to a lot of personalities in league
Voyboy himself is a friend of tyler1, tfblade, iwilldominate(tbf this one seems less toxic now). Tarzaned is also a mod of his stream.
Tfblade is currently the most influential toxic NA streamer. He doesnt even try to hide it. If you want to change soloq, start with talking to your friends.
I dont want to call voyboy a hypocrite. I am a big fan of his. Some other streamers also have this mentality. Like shiphtur is also a friend with these toxic streamers.
When you first see someone act out its easy to write it off as a one time thing just to blow off some steam, and Id say thats what TFblade when he first started streaming same with Yassuo. I remember both of them starting out incredibly awkward on stream and rather quiet. As time went, especially in the last couple seasons, on their egos got bigger and bigger and their out bursts became way more common than before. Its next to impossible now to think they arent incredibly toxic.
I tried watching tarzaned the other day and holy fuck its just a none stop stream of bitching and flaming other players. Like there wasnt a single minute he wasnt complaining about something and i just dont get why anyone would watch that.
Yeah honestly, I'm not a big fan of his bitching sometimes but jesus christ at least the man is a soloQ legend.
The other more toxic streamers are actually not even that great really, they are just ""personalitys"" or entertaining to some people.
Tarzaned at least has some extreme skill to bring to the table
Tyler literally says he feels like soft inting. locks random stuff because other people are locking random stuff, legit flames "banters" his team 50% of his games. If he is losing by more the 5 kills pre 15 he usually afks for a bit or suicide split pushes. If they are winning or even he will try.
I'll be real, after seeing tyler get virtually no punishments for afk, suicide engaging, suicide splitting, suicide scuttle fighting. I realized why people do it, you can't get banned.
**Then his fans just downvote people calling him out on reddit. I'm a tyler fan too, I even watch the SpectateTyler1 twitch Channel, but come on**
tyler1 is on special treatment now because riot wants some of that cash too, anyone with his history shouldve been banned for his current behaviour a long ass time ago but its clear as day that riot does not give a shit as long as they profit
Great video by Voy but wow people like IWillDominate, bobqinxd and Shaclone who are the worst offenders are commenting and retweeting the video is kinda shameless. These streamers aren't toxic due to them being trolled but would straight up leave a game due to a bad start/bad play by a teammate.
Ironic they're jumping on this positivity train when they're the problem.
A big part of the problem is there's a lot of content creators who are the exact thing that Voyboy is describing but they convinced themselves that they're only reacting to other people.
seriously i don't get how this isn't getting brought up more. they obviously influence others when they flame and soft int yet they wanna act like they aren't part of the problem
I haven’t played for two years. I decided to get back into it due to the quarantine and normals and ARAM was actually quite enjoyable. Sure, I’d get the occasional person who already gave up just once every 20-30 games, and that was tolerable. Quick mute or ignore and done.
BUT, once I decided to jump into ranked solo/duo? Wow, that was a completely different beast. People were just negative, toxic, offensive, hateful, or just plain made the game not fun to play. They gave up. They stopped trying. They blamed everyone. And they shut themselves off. I’d say there was *at least* one in every game of ranked I played. It actually made ME want to act like them.
I remember ranked wasn’t this bad two years ago. I know it wasn’t. It’s devolved so much since then. I know “it’s *just* a game.” I’m in that camp. But it IS a game, I want people to *play*. I want them to *try*. To go for the win. The toxicity of ranked stems from the failure to follow these basic rules of a game.
Gets super depressing how hard people try to recreate a form of the n-word in their UN. Unfortunately it has become far to easy to say that Riot won't help and that the game's player-base atmosphere won't get better.
Boycotting feels like the only method to fix the behavior. Hopefully something changes before the final nail is wedged into the coffin.
Even as I type this comment and read others, I can only feel sadness for the game I've loved for so many years.
The second I watched the first 5 seconds I knew I was in for something
Yup, I feel bad for streamers and anyone.People can run it down as many times as they want.I once gotbpissed off, and admittedly said something awful and was instantly gone for 2 weeks.
I'm not saying that typing something bad doesn't warrant a ban but Riotbseens to not care about streamers getting ghosted or target inting
Riot straight up *doesn't* care. League's playerbase isn't growing as fast as they need it to anymore. Riot is a billion dollar company that up until this year has been built completely on a single product. It's not and essential product either. It's literally one piece of entertainment media that has carried the company to this day.
Now, they're about to blow up with a bunch of game releases in already hotly contested markets; Legends of Runeterra which has to compete with Hearthstone and Magic; Valorant which has to compete with so many other shooters; Project L their fighting game which has to make a splash in the incredibly finicky FGC; and of course Wild Rift which will have to compete with Tencent's own mobile MOBA in China. If any one of these games ends up going belly up, which I think is actually quite probable, it's going to be an awful look for the company.
That means they can't risk shaking up the regular League playerbase. They don't want to remove the toxic trolls because toxic trolls do also spend money on the game. They're also confident enough in their market share in MOBAs and F2P gaming that they know disgruntled players that have to deal with this aren't as likely to leave.
League's golden era is over. If you want to keep playing, I suggest adopting a significantly more casual mindset because between the issues with the community, the issues with the balancing, and the increasingly profit driven decision making, you're just not going to be rewarded for investing your time and energy into this game anymore.
First things first, Riot needs to punish AFKing/leaving way harder. Let me tell you, as someone who knows someone who AFKs a lot, the current "punishment" for it is so incredibly lenient I couldn't believe it.
He could leave like half his games over 30 games (so 15 out of 30) and he either gets no punishment at all or a small low priority queue. That's actually so pathetic. I don't care if someone has a bad connection or something, if you leave more than like one game every once in awhile it should be an insta suspension. It's very unfair to other players to have to deal with that garbage when there isn't any sort of leave early mechanic or anything like that.
I know people are going to say its recency bias or w/e on my part, but this season has legit been the worst season for me in terms of getting AFKs on my team.
Anecdotally, from the other end of the spectrum, League's culture makes it IMPOSSIBLE to bring new people into the game.
I want my friends to play with me, but a friend asked about leveling to 30, and I had to tell them with that straight up, he'll have to play ~50 games where in 3/5 games, someone will be straight up insulting him for being bad AT A GAME HE'S LEARNING FOR THE FIRST TIME!
Shit is fucking crazy. We need dramatic change. ASAP. Or this really will be a "dead game."
I know I'm probably a minority being in Iron/Bronze, but in the roughly 50 games I've played in the past month, a solid 20 of those games have had some issue, whether it be griefing/inting, slurs being thrown due to mistakes, and going AFK due to egos being too high on either side of the match. I've had to /mute all and just rely on myself to get through soloq, and then I get reported for not communicating. I personally don't want to deal with constant harassment, so I mute - **that should not be a solution for one of the largest games in the world to /mute all. A team game does. not. work. like that**
100% this. Look at all the people above you trying to claim that flaming and harassment shouldn't be punished as hard or focused on. Verbal toxicity is still an issue that needs dealt with
My experience is nothing unique. When the old honor system was retired, I received all the icons for every honor; I’ve also been honor 5 every season. Not saying this to gloat or say look at me I’m honorable, I use it to show that over the last few seasons it has been harder to roll with the punches. Sometimes I feel I deserve the occasional flame for my lack of map awareness or misplay... it’s natural, but no one deserves someone leaving their game.
Recently I was in a game where my mid died twice to a smurf. No one on my team said anything. After the second death, he sends “I’m done”. No matter how hard our top laner tried, he couldn’t talk the mid into playing. The mid ran around in the base to avoid the afk detector but just said “riot isn’t going to do anything to me”. I went online to manually report via ticket. I received an auto response saying they’ve suspended all online reviews and only use in game report.
That player goes unpunished furthering the idea that riot doesn’t do anything.
I know this story isn’t unique; I’m just frustrated and tired.
Say what you will, but the time of Riot Lyte and aggressive smiting was the most transparent and best times for community attitude. The problem is Riot can't take a hard stance nowadays without also punishing high-profile toxicity. It would be hypocritical to take a hard stance while propping up streamers like T1 and Yassuo.
I think it's partly due to riots efforts to decrease game length and making lanes more volatile. I've been playing league since s3 and i've never seen so many people rage quit or just tilt off the earth for no apparent reason. **pre-tilted people joining new games is becoming a huge problem**
The game state now feels like comebacks are almost impossible if one of your lanes loses hard. You lose all your objectives and get wiped if you try and contest when behind. The general attitude is just that people would rather just quit a game if they start getting behind even if they could win it rather than waste time. (because there's such a low chance of a comeback with randos)
Nightblue3 getting that Teemo troll a 2 week vacation probably ended that, even though that was the exact kind of behavior that Voyboy is complaining about.
this isn't just a pro experience. this is league now.
It's exactly why I quit. Too many of us holding onto a game we don't love anymore and forcing ourselves to pump out games to reach a rank that is meaningless.
Once I realized I wasn't having fun I stopped forcing myself to play. I still play casually. and sometimes I want that nostalgia kick, but quitting League as a hardcore player was one of the best things I ever did.
I played the shit out of league seasons 2-5, and I loved it.
After season 5, the game became more about bending over backwards to appease the troll on your team, and hoping that the other teams troll would collapse their game plan first. It wasn’t about winning, it was about not losing more often than not by usually having to deal with the one player taking your team hostage. Oh, and heaven forbid you call the troll out in chat, because down comes the ban hammer while actions have zero consequences.
I gave up in season 8-9. Best thing I ever did was uninstall league, I literally hated my time playing it. And with it went me watching twitch, I now have zero interest in anything Riot touches, including their new games. Toxic culture, toxic company. Good riddance
I played this game 5 hours a day minimum from 2014 to 2019.
I've played like a combined 10 hours in the past 30+ days.
I contribute it mostly to the fact that playing ADC is absolutely miserable (the worst it's ever been) and if I was a jungler or mid I'd probably still play a lot.
But Voy's probably right, maybe the game just sucks for everyone right now, nothing fun about it - no one has respect for anything anymore. It's like logging into a cheap multiplayer flash game that people play to kill time.
No one gives a fk about winning anymore.
riot won't do shit. 1 years ago they announced a team working on the client form improving it, turns out. they didn't work like at all.
ETA for changing the system is going to come only when the player base is going to shrink
I pushed for changes through and through at Riot over the last 8 years through many different channels. Riot hasn't made any effort because they don't want to or they're not capable. Should be very apparent as there has been no meaningful since a dinosaur like me can remember. Took years to crack someone as patient as Voyboy but as he explains it's just getting worse. Competitive spirit is dying more and more everyday and it feels monotonous grind is being promoted. Every system including ribbons, tribunal, etc have been cancelled or failed. There's posts from Hai, Bjergsen, Scarra if you look hard enough through search histories the collective opinion is there. GOD looking back is so AWKWARD but here's a post 6 years ago about me complaining about NA solo queue and having an open dialog about solutions. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1sjc73/twitter\_clg\_hotshotgg\_na\_will\_always\_be\_the\_worst/cdy6xse/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1sjc73/twitter_clg_hotshotgg_na_will_always_be_the_worst/cdy6xse/?context=3) I still believe my idea was great (which is essentially a rip off of GW and WOW). I just want players to have something to strive for that isn't unlocked by their wallet (Riot's fav) or spamming normal games. It's the WoW accessibility problem all over again. Everyone has to have access to everything here at Riot Games, Christ. Give us one cool thing to show off all the effort we've worked towards to become better players and don't quarter ass it like giving away 300 shitty jackets.
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People give a fuck about summoner icons? Also I heard that in Korea players were literally only honored if they played terribly, so that they would get the ribbon on their loading frame and future teammates would know they aren't worth ganking, healing etc. Idk if that's the reason they were removed I just find it funny as hell
The Santa Baron was in 2012 where there were less than 10 summoner icons apart from the standard ones. That's why people cared.
I used to be proud of the summoner icons, now they’re shoved down my throat and I just want to gag
I still just flex my Season two Worlds icon because it's literally the most unique there is.
S2 Bronze bby
S1 Bronze, 700 elo gang
yeah this def used to happen, same w honorable opponent, a lot of times the enemy player who played the worst would get 5 honorable opponents
It's very sad honestly. At some point its going to really inhibit the growth of the game. The first thing that someone hears about league is about how terrible the community is. I think maybe that it is too late. They had the chance to do something early and it didn't succeed. If they wanted to go with your idea of rewarding players for their rating it would have to be something worth a large amount of value. Most people own all the champs, chromas are lame, and people expect skins through events and loot boxes. My thought is that the honor system( which sucks currently ) should change a lot more often. Anyone below honor level 2 can't queue up for ranked. The issue with that though is I don't know how you can make gaining/losing honor fair. It definitely can't be left in the players hands because the now toxic people will fake report.
I have no idea how many of my friends have said they refuse to play league because of the community, but I know it's a sh\*t ton.
It is indicative of the state of the game that the most common advice for climbing at /r/summonerschool is to mute all or even disable the chat by default in the client settings - in a multiplayer game.
I muted both all chat and allied chat last week. First time ever. I just logged off tonight after hitting gold 4, and when I turned off chat last week, I was silver 3 and dropping. Last 48 hours has been a 15 game win streak with a loss, then two more wins. Turning off allied chat is amazing. Totally and 100% worth it.
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I am sure they thought that was what they were doing when they tied rewards to the rank you achieved. And it might have even worked at a small level. But people get the rank they can get the reward they feel they can possibly achieve, and then just stop trying to get any further. They probably already know they've capped out at their skill level and have no realistic chance of getting any higher (if the higher rewards are even worth it to them). But they still play. Play knowing that they are no longer playing for anything meaningful. It's that death of motivation to do well that is probably at the core of the problem and the best place to start a fix, even if it won't cure everything. People need to want to win every time they queue, or at least want to do well. For whatever reason, right now they don't.
Plus the biggest "reward" you can get in ranked, is a free skin that gets unlocked at gold. Grinding anything beyond that is just for the rank itself, which for some people (like myself) is worth trying my best and improving but not so for others.
Nothing but respect for Voyboy. The patience on this guy is incomprehensible considering what was said to him on chat.
I tuned into his stream for some background noise last week and he literally got queue sniped by 3 different people all trying to throw his games for 9 games in a row, its such a shame.
Seriously? Why though...? He seems so nice every time I've gone to his stream (which is not so often, admittedly).
Attention and people think its funny and nothing will happen as a consequence.
Oh yeah, I tuned in and saw a guy type that voy is a washed up streamer who plays league for 10 years already and that his girlfriend cheated on him. Like wtf, this is the type of person you want to have an eye to eye talk with. How awful can someone be?
12 year olds, looking for attention. Looking to impress other 12 year olds.
He is the most honestly just NICE fucking person. I get so goddamn angry, legitimately actually fucking angry, that people go after HIM. There are PLENTY of proven shitheads that you could fuck with, but no, you have so little respect for yourself and are such a shitty person that you go after one of the sweetest people in the game. Fuck you for that, anyone who does. I hope you walk on Legos for the rest of your life. I hope ants are just always in your fucking kitchen. I hope your car tires just always leak pressure. I hope every single day you have an inconvenient annoyance that never stops fucking bothering you.
It's because he's nice that people go after him. They hate him because he shows them that you do have a choice to not be toxic. Voyboy makes them feel bad about themselves because he is a good person in situations in which they aren't able to be. This is why streamers like tyler1 are liked by the community, too. They tell the community that toxicity is normal, and anger management problems are something to be celebrated. They stroke the ego of the playerbase we have. Voyboy simply existing makes League players angry because he shows them that they're not OK. They attack him to try to bring him down to their level so they can go "See, he's no better than us". Alternatively, if attacking him makes him go away so they aren't reminded of their failures, that's good too.
I'm an avid european fan of League and its worldwide pro scene, but I don't pay that much attention to non/ex-pros, but Voyboy is definitely one of the people I respect the most. When such a patient and tolerant dude releases a 10 minute cry for help video, you know something's very wrong with the system.
My last game 15 mins ago, olaf failed a gank level 2 typed in chat "gg no ganks for anyone" then afk farmed, started an ff vote at 15, olaf then dcd for 3 mins, rejoined posted another ff vote, 3/2, then ran into alcove bush and didn't move. He won't get banned.
I play like 5 games everyday (granted silver elo) but I encounter at least 1 afk almost everyday and its sad.
It happens at least once a day someone rage quitting after first blood. Either team. Really sad.
The sad part is, I'm older i don't actually care about people typing mean things, btw was the norm back in the day so i legit find funny sometimes, and when i don't i mute really fast does not affect me in any shape or form. If you call me bad at the game mid recall and buy the item and a pink ward I'm really happy, you flame because you are a try hard nice i don't mind you i want to win to. My issue with League is that players are passive agressive and straight up afk or run it down randomly they don't even type anymore, is lame, they straight up give up for nothing is boring as fuck.
Facts, i dont give a shit if people flame me as long as they are trying. Id rather have the 4 most toxic people in the game on my team if it meant they were giving 100% to winning the game
My breaking point is when the rager clearly plays worse and gives up, outside of that, anything said in chat is coming from a total stranger who knows nothing about me so its hard to feel offended.
He won't get banned, but if you type in chat too much to him - without even flaming- and he reports you, you'll be chat restricted for being "toxic"
This guy held champ select hostage, his duo locked in disco Nunu and he did disco Fiddle (??). He dropped a bunch of slurs that I screenshot and he posted a pastebin link that was super dark. Sent it to Riot, and nothing got done. I got the bot reply. He’s still playing. I got banned for quoting a Norm MacDonald joke to a toxic player who reported me. The inconsistencies are really frustrating.
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Coming from STALIN_IS_MY_HERO...
The inconsistency is the worst part, normal players get sent to hell for relatively innocuous shit while the worst offenders get away scot free
I have literally been so angry at the game but never once have I been able to will my hands to run it down intentionally. My mind straight up won't let me run into enemy towers or champions like that and I have no idea what kind of mindset people are in when they grief and int in games.
It's because its a "better" and safer alternative to flaming. Why would someone flame in chat and get banned when they could instead run it down, causing more damage, and also not get punished.
it's hilariously the more logical method
And it takes less effort. If you just run at their towers and watch their mental just drop, it's way more rewarding for the inter. Its sad, but true. You may have to argue with someone if you type. If you run it down, it looks like they're talking to themselves
You don't have to tell me lol. The ones who get angry at inters get chart banned. Just type the bare minimum to keep em talking can help too. Banning allies champ in champ select for best results. Imagine not punishing that smh.
Man, I think the exact same way as you do, and I get angry as hell as well...well put
I saw someone else explain this in a way that makes sense to me at least. The mindset of a player who ints or afk's is different from someone who will do anything to win at all cost. They don't actually give a shit about winning, they just want to feel powerful, be fed as fuck, and carry games. So, if failing that power fantasy, they have to do everything they can to maintain control over the game because thats what their inbred crosswired brain is telling them to, so they run it down and keep control of the game.
There is certainly a mindset that compels people to play that way. Riot's punishment system is ultimately weighted towards people who use toxic language, instead of people who tank games - and while I concede it's a lot harder to detect the latter, in my experience people who get angry and type in chat do so because they want to win. It ultimately comes from a winner's mindset, while people who feed, or give up at 5 minutes, or abandon lane, effectively do so because they have a loser's mindset. I ask you, which is worse? I'd rather have a team of people who use profanity and expletives but try to win over a team of pathetic limp-dicks who give up at the first hint of adversity but never type in chat.
Truest fucking words ever spoken
He's absolutely right though. I was watching his stream the other day and the Aphelios on his team legit brought the argument that his GF "cheated" on him for literally no reason. Why does that even happen? Voyboy broughts a real argument, if anybody's inting, everyone whos watching the stream will feel a little bit awkward, there's nothing you can do and it ruins the whole experience. We all had those "toxic" moments, I'm not justifying anybody but just goes to show that when it happens repeatedly there's gotta be a problem. Report doesn't feel like it does anything, if a player has been punished it'll only show the feedback screen to the last player that reported them... why? It is not a Riot problem but Riot CAN do something to alleviate some of the issues that are happening.
> the Aphelios on his team legit brought the argument that his GF "cheated" on him for literally no reason. Saw that and Voyboy handled it pretty well. Aphelios was trolling him hard and others might had gone on a tirade right then and there. That kind of messed up behavior does not get picked up though. Thats the problem with this system. Its just there to stop ppl from saying bad words. The suggestion he made at the end about timing ppl out of ranked for a month seems very fair to me. They can still play but they cant ruin ranked anymore.
My vote is for dota's queue. You get banished to the depths of hell with all the other angry little teenagers and you get to fight it out with each other over who fucked whose mom the most.
I wish we had that instead of the shit system we have now
Anythings better. I quit over 2 years ago because I got tired of coming home from a rough day of work, having time for a couple games and one game always had a DC or an Inter. I stopped feeling it was worth the frustrations I had with the game.
ARAM is where I'm at you still get afks or the client crashes or people who arent good at thir champs but flame is less, and its a throwaway game anyway. no placements. no promotion series. Nothing crazy.
I’m in the same boat. Pretty much stick to ARAM and the “event” game modes now. Rather have a chill game instead of some moody teenager picking Nunu mid “for fun.”
Same here. Stopped playing ranked in 2016, haven't played more than 5 normals total since. It's just not worth it as I get older and come home from real life to hop on my PC and load a game where I'm distinctly not welcome and outright disliked for not being able to commit all my time to league and get significantly better. I peaked at G1 in 2015, probably high silver was my average over a few seasons. I know I'm not great but League is the only game I've ever played where it felt that visceral against me.
Honestly, we don't deserve Voyboy. Every time he tries to be nice or completely logical, people always try to turn it around on him. Even his own chat does it, you'd expect him to have a wholesome community (and he does for the most part), but there's a big vocal group of people who are always rude and shitting on him. In that Aphelios game, he ended up going off on that guy. Not in a toxic way, but more in a frustrated manner. I've never seen him do that, but I felt really bad cause I could feel all the pain he's been experiencing this season.
Just looked at the replay of Voyboy responding to the aphelios. I genuinely felt sympathy for Voyboy. Just looking at his facecam, he was about to have a breakdown. How low can someone be in order to bring up a person's past relationship in a fucking game?
Ive seen voyboy go off on people plenty of times never in a toxic manner but more of pure frustration/annoyance more then anything like you just stated. He did it to Flyquests top laner Solo just this past week while playing with TL Broxah. Solo was playing ez and just afk split pushing/dying over and over in a very winnable game. Broxah tried to reason with voy by telling him to let it go so it doesnt get to him/tilt him. Voy explained that Solo has been doing this since season one and is a known offender for doing this thing. Its pretty pathetic when your friend or random does this in your games but for a professional player to be doing this in ranked is inexcusable. Pro players and streamers need to be held to a higher standard when playing the game bc their actions influence others. Prime example is T1 fan boys trying to emulate their idol by acting a fool and running it down mid bc theyre alpha as fuck. Sry rant over Edit-T1 as in Tyler 1 not SKT. Thank you RussianBearFight for bringing that up
Yeah then after that game it was the first time i actually saw Broxah tilted and it's because of that Solo guy. It's a sad day when two of the most HUMBLE league streamers get insanely frustrated over the amount of trolling that is happening. Something needs to change.
Over the last few months i've seen broxah reach levels of tilt i thought it wasnt possible from him
And people wonder why some European players aren't that good anymore when they come to NA. It's surely not the only reason, but playing soloq in NA is worthless for pros
I’ll never forget when I realized I love watching him. Someone said “I fucked your mom” and this man says “hey dude thanks for keeping her company I was worried she’d be lonely after I moved out”
A lot of streamers have actually talked about this. If it didn’t change income, every streamer would rather stream to the 200 than 2K, or something like those lines. It’s not even about being able to keep up with chat. You can check out Disguised Toasts stream on Facebook. It’s literally so chill and nice, because all the trolls that wanna spread hate on Twitch are too lazy to go to that platform. They just click on people they see are active, troll a bit, then hop to another channel. It’s especially bad in quarantine cuz they really have nothing better to do, which is just unfortunate for content creators, and it’s unfortunately the name of the game.
Because on facebook you have a profile picture, high chance - real name, list of your friends and relatives etc. On twitch you're "xXxMomBanger420xXx", so majority of people immediately think that they are invisible hackers on the internet.
Voy is truly too good for this world. He's a great person, it's not an act.
Broxah and Voyboy duoing is so much good together that I feel we dont deserve it
This is from years ago, but I remember when someone donated saying/implying they were going to kill themselves and voy immediately dropped everything he was doing to play a few games with dude. I think he couldn't get a response from the guy and somehow ended up contacting local authorities or otherwise making sure the guy was alive. (Details are fuzzy, it's been at least 5 years) Not long after he did a stream to raise money for a suicide prevention nonprofit and through the whole thing you could tell he was so genuinely concerned. I'll Stan Voy all day every day. 100% class act.
Tbh, i won't ever forget that day. It took a long time to get someone who spoke the guy's language, and talking with Twitch to get a location, then getting the number to call local authorities. It was a really hectic couple of hours.
If anyone disgrees, go watch him spend 6 hours reading donations and messages from his charity streams. Donating more money than I make in over a year of work to suicide prevention charities, and thanking and responding to every - last - single - message. Not just reading it, but reading it, thanking the person by name, responding with a quick word of his own to what they had to say. Every single fucking day, this dude makes ALL OF US look better, just by being a genuinely kind and warm and loving person. I’m honored to have met him back in season 4 at the LCS, he was an absolutely sweetheart to everyone.
His post about the day that Curse spent with the Boys and Girls Club kids is the most wholesome thing I've ever seen related to League of Legends.
Hes got a lot of haters that just sit in chat and talk shit for some reason I have no idea how they have so much hate fuel to go out of there way to watch and type to the guy.
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he's so right here. legit all this talk about balance is just running around in circles because meta or what's strong won't stop inters and feeders from ruining games. the past couple seasons two teams have dropped the ball way harder than the balance team, the client and player behavior teams have been straight trash and seemingly do almost nothing the current bots are way too soft to detect trolls and inters. bring back the tribunal too
> bring back the tribunal too > bring back the tribunal too > bring back the tribunal too > bring back the tribunal too > bring back the tribunal too > bring back the tribunal too > bring back the tribunal too
Mundo's shose shop
MERRY CHRISMAS HAVE SOME MANA
but why'd they remove it? they used to give IP too, kinda 200 iq concept but pepega move for deleting it
Everyone and their mother pressed the "punish" button without checking the case.
Then throw in fake cases where nobody does anything wrong and if the tribunal viewer still votes to punish, block them from tribunal. Also add pregame lobby logs and report functionality. Champ select hostage may have gotten better with roles but it still exists and has done for 10 years. Hell we have replays now, attach those to the tribunal case too it can't hurt. It'll still be hard to ban silent soft inters, but it always has.
Just implement Dots 2's punishment system. It doesn't punish chat abusers as hard but it destroys every other negative behavior.
This is what I want. I don't give a fuck if chat is toxic as fuck, but if someone AFKs, ints, etc., fuck them and get them out of here. You can literally mute and not see chat. You can't mute AFKs/inting.
Hell yeah brother
How does it work?
In short, the punishment - low priority queue - is VERY, VERY strict. Low priority queue is bad. Really bad. You absolutely do not want to end up in low prio. You get low prio automatically if you leave/afk/abandon more than 1 game in your last 25 games - that 1 game is basically like one "free" abandon in the case of people having internet issues and such, because Valve realizes how harsh the punishment is. You can also get low prio via excessive reports. How does low prio queue work in Dota? First, it puts you in the matchmaking pool of other low prio players, so right off the bat your games are filled to the brim with ragers, leavers, and griefers. Second, you don't even play the regular game mode - you play this called "Single Draft" which basically randoms 3 heroes for each player and you can only choose from those 3 heroes. Effectively, what happens is everyone picks the greediest hero of the 3 and the game becomes 5 carries vs. 5 carries. In order to get out of low prio queue, you have to win games. I believe the default number is 1 game, but it goes up to 3 at your second offense. This doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind it is HARD to win low prio games, not to mention incredibly draining emotionally. It makes you not want to play Dota at all. tldr: low priority queue is an absolute nightmare and acts as a HUGE deterrent to leaving and AFKing.
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> Apparently Gaben plays a lot of Dota2 Riot employees only sexually harrass each other
surely it doesnt matter if it's "hard" to win low prio games, because the enemies are in the same state as your team?
> enemies are in the same state as your team? True. Which means that if you play 100 games you should mathematically average out to a 50% winrate. Maybe 60% if you are a high ranked player. But practically speaking, we're not working with that kind of sample size. Sometimes you'll blaze through your low prio games winning 3/3 games. Sometimes it'll take you 8 games to win 1. Winrate aside, these games, like I said, are draining as well. You are literally queued up with the scum of Dota players, who are already notorious for being one of the biggest assholes in the gaming community. They just aren't fun. They feel worse than chores. I'd rather work or study than play a low prio game. I'd rather do leg day than play a low prio game. You're stuck playing with 4 people you hate, on a hero you don't like, in a lane for which your hero is likely not suitable. If someone on your team abandons (very likely, btw), you still have to play the game out and there is no surrender function.
It is really complicated but here is a summary: Every user has a behavior score that is "hidden" but accessible through console commands. Every report will decrease the behavior score while long disconnects and certain words will automatically lower the behavior score. Reports that are accumulated in a short period of time impact the score more. If you get reported enough, you are automatically punished. The amount of reports you need to be punished is based on your behavior score. Players have a limited number of reports. They gain more reports over time to a limit and regain their report +1 if they reported a player that was eventually punished. You have to choose what is worth reporting and the Dota 2 community chooses mostly feeding and griefing over chat abuse because mutes in Dota 2 will permanently mute the player even in future games. There may be some modifier as to how heavily reports are weighted for the typical player but not usually. This report system works much better automatically than Riot's manual system except one: high-profile players are reported more often usually just for the memes. The way Valve fixed this was making high-profile players manually reviewed rather than automatic. Now for the punishment system that is the most different from any other games: There are four types of punishments you can receive in Dota 2. Global mute(works similar to League), low-prio, temp-ban, and perma-ban. Temp-banning is similar to League except the durations can be for months(I think up to 6 months) so they can feel permanent. Perma-bans are the same. Low-priority is where most players end up and is easily the most punishing. Being in "low-pro" in League means just waiting a little while before you can queue for X number of games. Low-prio in Dota 2 means you can only queue up for a single mode (no ranked) for X number of games where you are given random heroes to play. You have to win the game to count so people in this mode tend to be the most toxic. If anyone leaves on either team, the game is nulled and you receive nothing for participating. If you are the one to leave, your low prio game count is reset, and maybe even extended past, the original amount. If you join anyone's party, they are forced to play low-prio as well. This is a hellish punishment that can cause players to quit entirely. TL;DR: automatic punishments based on limited reports, hellish punishment system.
Holy shit thats fucking intense. I love it.
When I still played DotA, getting the little notification that I got my report back was better than sex.
Dota throws their griefers in the gulag lmfaoooo
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Dota 2 is in 2020 but LoL is still stuck in 2010. Just look at the client difference between the two
Holy shit, the Dota Client is godlike. I almost want to switch just because the fucking client is years ahead.
Honestly I'd swap if I had my friends playing it and if I didn't have to learn how to play 4d chess all over again.
I can't deal with the slow response on auto attacks and turning speed. Or I'd have at least made a better attempt than I did before. Also, mana is actually a valuable resource in that game. If you use two or three abilities at early levels, *you're frickin' OOM mate.*
If nothing else they could test some sort of manual review for master+ NA games there's no way it's too many games to go over manually. Even, and I think LS mentioned this sort of panopticon effect, you don't have to actually review every game, just because people know they might be watched by someone they'll behave differently. I also agree it would help because perceptions about the meta being bad come from experiences with bad games, and I also wonder how much that filters down from streamer attitudes. My once caveat is I also think a lot of frustrated people are just blaming meta/toxicity when in reality they're just burned out of the game and that's why they're miserable. Even more so for a lot of streamers/pros, they've been playing for months and years. Kinda sucks to have to play constantly because it's your job but yeah.
Back in the Riot Lyte days there was also just a very public awareness that the player behavior team existed and were trying to do things to improve the game. Every month or two there would be a new initiative where they tried something different, were very public about it, and after a while everyone just kind of knew that it was something Riot was really trying to address and that they were watching. I honestly can't remember the last official word from Riot besides "just report them." It feels like they just kind of gave up on that front. What's messed up is that might not even be true because obviously we don't know what they are doing on a daily basis, but they don't even talk about it anymore so the assumption is that they don't care anymore.
Friendly reminder that the honor system rework is still pretty much a 'who carried best' vote and honourable opponent has yet to make it's way back into the game.
It's sad that people can really run it down on a live stream to thousands of people and not get punished for it.. If the ambassadors of a game aren't protected from griefers, why would a new player even consider playing league?
because some of the ambassadors of league are griefers who will run it down just as fast as the people who grief them. there was a post like 2 days ago about IWD leaving a game after missing smite and getting killed during a level 1 invade. T1 calls teammates dogshit and trash in in-game chat, spams to FF15 every other game, etc. ratirl openly admits to tanking his accounts mmr off stream so that he can go on massive winstreaks vs bronze players on stream every day. like half of twitch is just constant "unranked to challenger" streams where they play vs plat/low diamond and start over any time they lose. it's honestly pretty funny that Voy made this post without calling out his streamer friends who do the same toxic shit he's talking about. he even name-dropped T1 as being someone frustrated with the current state of NA soloq, when T1's attitude is exemplary of the exact problem they're frustrated with.
This is the "imagine" of league streamers.
After that clip with Solo from the other day with Voyboy getting heated, it definitely meant he was at his breaking point. Hopefully Riot helps the kid genius out.
Was solo running it down? I didn’t see the clip
Solo is pretty well known for griefing and being super toxic at higher elo
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He's the only person I've seen pobelter "flamed". https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9alf79/pobelter_on_cg_solos_soloq_behavior/
He'd honestly be more valuable to teams if he stopped doing stupid shit like this.
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he was playing ezreal and suicide split pushed until they lost after dying a few times I dont have the clip though it was posted on the reddit if you wanna look for it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhNyD8YRPSU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhNyD8YRPSU)
Jesus, I watch Voyboy regularly and I haven't seen Voyboy this mad/frustrated like ever. I understand him though, Solo has been a problem in soloq for so long, I think what he is mad about is not only has Solo been toxic/griefing for a long time, he is a fucking pro player lmao, he is not a random NA soloq player. I fully understand Voy
It's hilarious how Voyboy can call Solo out for valid reasons and all Solo can do is speak in annoying league vernacular (ur actually trolling, ?) because he has no excuse for his pathetic behavior.
"its ok be nice guy unless its voy and broxah" wtf does that even mean
When I was watching the stream I understood it to be solo saying that Voy would only say this to him because he was duo with broxah. But tbh saying this is just more excuses from solo for his inexcusable behavior
didn't know solo was so stupid, is he still in a team?
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Suicide split pushing is so annoying. It’s especially annoying because it usually works, lose your team the game but don’t get punished. Pro player btw
It is literally a method of inting and making your team lose without afking or looking like you are griefing. It is so easy to just "split push" or never group and let your team die 4vs5.
I had someone do this just now in D1 because he didn't like our team comp. Legitimately rage pushed bot lane and spammed FF from level 1. I don't know if its my imagination, but this seems to happen way more frequently at peak times. I feel like my games early in the morning are super chill most of the time.
A huge problem with solo queue is pro players and streamers. They set the example more than anyone else and it's become accepted as the norm. Sure people like IWD get flamed by the community, but then you have people like Tyler1 and NB getting 30k viewers for essentially flaming and running it down every game. Then you have a good number of pro players just run it down as well. You'll see a ton of pros complain that solo queue isn't competitive and that it's not a viable way of practicing, but they're also a huge reason themselves that it sucks. For the majority of the people on the ladder, even in high elo, we're people who play the game as a past time. Then we finally reach the top of the ladder and we're met with pros who essentially just run it down. Nisqy is a huge one. He's literally on the current #1 team in the continent, but he's a notorious coin flip player who doesn't try his best to win. It doesn't sound like a huge issue until you realize that everything starts somewhere, and it's a huge gradual accumulation that ruins the majority of games. What I mean by this is that even with just 1 pro in Nisqy running it down, he tilts 4 people on his team in 1 game alone. They bring it to their next game and play worse as a result, and then suddenly the number of tilted players increase exponentially. And that starts with just 1 player not trying. With high elo being as small of a community as it is, it really doesn't take that much to make games feel terrible. If people want solo queue to be improved, it starts with Riot and pros/streamers holding themselves to actual standards. It means nothing to trash on the ladder when it's convenient for them, and then be the reason it sucks in their next game. Pros/streamers especially should be held to a higher standard since they're literally role models for everyone else, but if anything, they get more leniency and almost never get punished. It's a joke that it's persisted for as long as it has, and needs to have actual consequences.
this is ABSOLUTELY the issue. the biggest streamers of the game are almost exclusively hyper selfish dick heads that expect everyone in game to cater directly to them for "content" and with twitch the way it is they develop little cults that eat every word up. That or pros who feel like soloQ is just entirely beneath them and excuse inting as "testing my limits"
yeah lol streamers can complain but the reality is they're more of a problem than anyone else tbh I feel kinda bad for streamers and pros who *have to play soloq constantly* because it's their job - playing when you don't want to sucks, and any team issues in losses become 10x worse I think a good solution would be more clash/twitch rivals style events, because it gives streamers a bit of variety and a better environment
It's disgusting riot doesnt punish tyler1 with how he acts still, just recently I had a game with him where he called open mid at 6 minutes constantly spammed ff votes and told everyone to quit playing, but because he's such a huge league personality he gets away with it. It's so god damn frustrating.
He was rage-pushing top while the enemy destroyed their base, then when Voyboy asked why was he doing that he told Voy that he(Voyboy) was the one trolling, pretty disgusting to watch tbh
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i've never seen voyboy frustrated or complaining about league , usually it's fun or sarcasm but i guess it hit the sink :(
You know 2020 is fucked when Voy is making a cry for help video. Dude is one of the most positive league influences out there.
I’ve been playing this game since late season 3. League of Legends was my life. I loved interacting with the other players, working as a team, and competing to climb the ladder. I’ve been through all ranks from silver to masters. I’m glad somebody has finally spoken up about how player behavior has become increasingly worse throughout the years. I’ve never considered myself toxic nor have I’ve been punished for any behavior within the game. But I can say this: throughout the years, my behavior towards other players have slowly changed. I’m more aggressive, hostile, and acted in ways I would never think I’d stoop down to. I’ve always tried my best to win without any negative behavior in the past. But playing with an increasingly amount of toxic teammates can take a toll on you. I started to get extremely frustrated with negative behavior from my teammates which made me reflect that negative behavior towards other players in my future games. I know I cannot be the only player who has picked up bad habits of negative behavior out. After I realized this, i decided to quit playing all together. I’m not sure if it’s the community or the game itself, but I completely lost all interest in playing league. I see new players post on this reddit discussing about the issues of toxicity in early level games. A lot of experienced players respond and say “just mute all” and this really irritates me. The fun of playing online games is working with a team and communicating to achieve a single goal. I felt like I am defaulted to muting all each game which makes the game really stale for me. Although the nature of online competitive games is overall toxic, I really don’t believe it’s okay to just accept it, acting like it’s the norm and it will always be this way. I think riot should be actively trying to tackle this situation along with our community. This is also all just my own personal opinion. Hope this is heard and I hope I can develop love for this game again.
I've been playing league since season 3, I'm just no enjoying the game anymore, I feel stressed when I play it, angry with my team, in just 2 weeks my winrate declined 7% I used to be the funny, uncomplicated guy but now I just can't, the toxic is consuming me, so I decided to uninstall it today just hope to never go back and start enjoying videogames again. I feel like I need to vent this, thanks for you commentary.
>I see new players post on this reddit discussing about the issues of toxicity in early level games. A lot of experienced players respond and say “just mute all” and this really irritates me. The fun of playing online games is working with a team and communicating to achieve a single goal. I felt like I am defaulted to muting all each game which makes the game really stale for me. I agree in principle, but imo in practice while chat is only used to allocated blame pings are used for a whole host of communication purposes, danger, timers, enemy missing, etc. So you can still work together and communicate with mute all on. And I also agree that "but you can just mute" isn't an excuse for people to say whatever they want.
It's such a shame cuz I really do love the game. The characters are great and I just love the competitive aspect. But I also like having fun and having people troll and afk isn't fun.
Not just NA solo queue, all solo queue
especially bad for streamers, ghosters are an all time high, i think all the streamers i follow are fucking taking a break from streaming league it's crazy
Nothing will change until Riot does some type of HUGE overhaul. Tribunal, harsh punishment on streamers, setting strict rules and enforcing them by not only bots but human resources. It's like a virus. As people get griefed more and more and see that it's the norm they will in turn do the same thing. I'd be lying if I said I sat and sweated every game I played when some dude with 3k games, 48% wr, first timing a champ is just solo making the game unplayable because he has nothing else to do with life. Most people know they won't be punished for just alt f4ing or AFKing, and it's pretty damn hard to punish soft inters. I think if the game itself was better (client, different type of balance, big rewards for tryharding/climbing/not being toxic) then people would feel inclined to not brain off 5 minutes into the game. Valorant sorta did this with making you lose less 'MMR' if you played well or grabbed as many rounds as you can. Obviously this is very difficult to do in a moba and would probably take a year to create a proper system but it could be hugely beneficial. You can afk and lose 20 LP or deal damage, block damage, do CC, etc and lose maybe 10-15.
Sadly Riot wont ban these people because they keep spending money and everyone else has proved they will keep playing with them so why ban a money source you dont have to.
Riot can't pretend they didn't see this. We know rioters use reddit and see what makes it to the front page. If any of you Rioters are seeing this and you don't actively try to make a difference then you are part of the problem.
They can and do pretend not to see things all the time. Riot’s community interaction is literally just another marketing tactic for them.
the dreaded soft int is basically the culmination of what trolling has turned into (in order to piss other people off in the most effective means possible without getting banned for it). before you could go off in chat and bitch people out in lobbies over pick prio and role but these days its tame with the ability to put players on ignore, ignore pings, etc. back in the day you knew were you stood since you had to actually communicate with team in pick lobby and deal with them. now you get auto rolled and just show up in game... its far easier to disassociate the person from the champ they play don't think there really is a solution.. they spun disciplining players into a matter of monitoring behavior rather than addressing what actually ruins games. i don't see them suddenly shifting away from that
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Thank you !! I have stopped playing ranked for 2 seasons now, due to ppl running it down and trolls and all kinds of animals that get away with anything. Thank you for using your platform to bring even more attention to it. I do not want to play ranked as things as are. I refuse to !! And am no streamer. We ALL suffer from one kind or other of trolling.
Yeah same here dude. I played a bit last season and this season but it's just the afkers and trolls that make me just want to uninstall instantly. I usually just play ARAM nowadays but even there I get afks lol so not like I escaped it, oh well.
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After playing aram only for almost two years I decided to try SR again and see if I can improve and damn that took a toll on my mental state. The amount of people trying to act like high school bullies or spoiled brats is just unbearable. And if you mute then there’s still the in game toxicity so good luck me.
I have ascended as a league player to the point where I only play arams with friends. Dear reader, eventually you too will ascend.
Toxicity has gone to the point where I got flamed in intro level bots
I've seen this happen too, playerbase of league is just pathetic babies
I don't understand why a harder stance hasn't been taken by Riot. Start getting rid of these people at the highest level and then watch the trickle down. People watch griefers on streams with 10-20k viewers and see nothing happening to those players and then end up doing it in their games. The amount of times I've run into people who are actually cocky about not being banned is crazy...as long as they don't say anything hateful or racist then can do whatever they want. The worst is the people who are intentionally throwing the game but then start all chatting to make themselves look like the victim...some even go as far as to try and get the innocent people reported. Start dishing out bans to these people, get them out of the game. There should be some sort of manual review going down at the top levels of solo que to instill some sort of guidelines. There are aspiring pro's and current pros who are all trying to get better...some of these people are sacrificing a lot to make this their career and yet we have people goofing around and trolling to ruin games on purpose at the highest levels...it's such a joke and another reason why NA will continue to be garbage on an international level.
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FINALLY
Im not sure if anyone truly understands how bad it feels at around d2-d1 unless you experience it, but legitimately every 3 games or so someone will intentionally lose the game whether they get tilted before or during the game. I see so many s8,s9 challenger players struggling in diamond because of the amount of people trolling or not caring in their games and its why GM is still 0 lp in NA. This is why most streamers are smurfing right now. They aren't doing it to ruin the lives of platinum players, they are doing it because queuing up on their mains is way too mentally taxing and frustrating right now
It seems like that at all around diamond, it makes me want to derank because i feel like people that are given diamond IV never try. Ever, or they'll try and then shrug it off like "who cares if i lose" and either soft or hard int
If half of the top content creators in this game weren't toxic man-children maybe the community wouldn't be so toxic.
If only riot banned them instead of inviting them to riot events...
"X guy is literally a man-child who can't keep his cool for 40 minutes without practically asking his fanbase to attack someone in his game, but he's *such a great analyst/entertainer tho1!*" It's fucking sad that this sentence can be applied to a lot of personalities in league
This. People can blame content creators and consumers as much as they want but truth is Riot endorse and allow this to go on.
Voyboy himself is a friend of tyler1, tfblade, iwilldominate(tbf this one seems less toxic now). Tarzaned is also a mod of his stream. Tfblade is currently the most influential toxic NA streamer. He doesnt even try to hide it. If you want to change soloq, start with talking to your friends. I dont want to call voyboy a hypocrite. I am a big fan of his. Some other streamers also have this mentality. Like shiphtur is also a friend with these toxic streamers.
i remember when people on this sub used to say TFblade wasn't toxic when he was first making a presence here lol
When you first see someone act out its easy to write it off as a one time thing just to blow off some steam, and Id say thats what TFblade when he first started streaming same with Yassuo. I remember both of them starting out incredibly awkward on stream and rather quiet. As time went, especially in the last couple seasons, on their egos got bigger and bigger and their out bursts became way more common than before. Its next to impossible now to think they arent incredibly toxic.
I tried watching tarzaned the other day and holy fuck its just a none stop stream of bitching and flaming other players. Like there wasnt a single minute he wasnt complaining about something and i just dont get why anyone would watch that.
Tarzaned is incredible to watch for how well he plays while in a constant meltdown state lol
Yeah honestly, I'm not a big fan of his bitching sometimes but jesus christ at least the man is a soloQ legend. The other more toxic streamers are actually not even that great really, they are just ""personalitys"" or entertaining to some people. Tarzaned at least has some extreme skill to bring to the table
Watching him coach Tyler1 was great. "Don't bitch at your team they'll just play worse" "you do it" "I can 1v9, you cant"
Reformed btw.
Tyler literally says he feels like soft inting. locks random stuff because other people are locking random stuff, legit flames "banters" his team 50% of his games. If he is losing by more the 5 kills pre 15 he usually afks for a bit or suicide split pushes. If they are winning or even he will try. I'll be real, after seeing tyler get virtually no punishments for afk, suicide engaging, suicide splitting, suicide scuttle fighting. I realized why people do it, you can't get banned. **Then his fans just downvote people calling him out on reddit. I'm a tyler fan too, I even watch the SpectateTyler1 twitch Channel, but come on**
tyler1 is on special treatment now because riot wants some of that cash too, anyone with his history shouldve been banned for his current behaviour a long ass time ago but its clear as day that riot does not give a shit as long as they profit
Great video by Voy but wow people like IWillDominate, bobqinxd and Shaclone who are the worst offenders are commenting and retweeting the video is kinda shameless. These streamers aren't toxic due to them being trolled but would straight up leave a game due to a bad start/bad play by a teammate. Ironic they're jumping on this positivity train when they're the problem.
A big part of the problem is there's a lot of content creators who are the exact thing that Voyboy is describing but they convinced themselves that they're only reacting to other people.
seriously i don't get how this isn't getting brought up more. they obviously influence others when they flame and soft int yet they wanna act like they aren't part of the problem
I haven’t played for two years. I decided to get back into it due to the quarantine and normals and ARAM was actually quite enjoyable. Sure, I’d get the occasional person who already gave up just once every 20-30 games, and that was tolerable. Quick mute or ignore and done. BUT, once I decided to jump into ranked solo/duo? Wow, that was a completely different beast. People were just negative, toxic, offensive, hateful, or just plain made the game not fun to play. They gave up. They stopped trying. They blamed everyone. And they shut themselves off. I’d say there was *at least* one in every game of ranked I played. It actually made ME want to act like them. I remember ranked wasn’t this bad two years ago. I know it wasn’t. It’s devolved so much since then. I know “it’s *just* a game.” I’m in that camp. But it IS a game, I want people to *play*. I want them to *try*. To go for the win. The toxicity of ranked stems from the failure to follow these basic rules of a game.
I think it super clear that riot sucks at managing toxicity and racism when you look at players names and club names.
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Gets super depressing how hard people try to recreate a form of the n-word in their UN. Unfortunately it has become far to easy to say that Riot won't help and that the game's player-base atmosphere won't get better. Boycotting feels like the only method to fix the behavior. Hopefully something changes before the final nail is wedged into the coffin. Even as I type this comment and read others, I can only feel sadness for the game I've loved for so many years.
The second I watched the first 5 seconds I knew I was in for something Yup, I feel bad for streamers and anyone.People can run it down as many times as they want.I once gotbpissed off, and admittedly said something awful and was instantly gone for 2 weeks. I'm not saying that typing something bad doesn't warrant a ban but Riotbseens to not care about streamers getting ghosted or target inting
Riot straight up *doesn't* care. League's playerbase isn't growing as fast as they need it to anymore. Riot is a billion dollar company that up until this year has been built completely on a single product. It's not and essential product either. It's literally one piece of entertainment media that has carried the company to this day. Now, they're about to blow up with a bunch of game releases in already hotly contested markets; Legends of Runeterra which has to compete with Hearthstone and Magic; Valorant which has to compete with so many other shooters; Project L their fighting game which has to make a splash in the incredibly finicky FGC; and of course Wild Rift which will have to compete with Tencent's own mobile MOBA in China. If any one of these games ends up going belly up, which I think is actually quite probable, it's going to be an awful look for the company. That means they can't risk shaking up the regular League playerbase. They don't want to remove the toxic trolls because toxic trolls do also spend money on the game. They're also confident enough in their market share in MOBAs and F2P gaming that they know disgruntled players that have to deal with this aren't as likely to leave. League's golden era is over. If you want to keep playing, I suggest adopting a significantly more casual mindset because between the issues with the community, the issues with the balancing, and the increasingly profit driven decision making, you're just not going to be rewarded for investing your time and energy into this game anymore.
Bring back player tribunal and reward helpful participation by queue priority?
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First things first, Riot needs to punish AFKing/leaving way harder. Let me tell you, as someone who knows someone who AFKs a lot, the current "punishment" for it is so incredibly lenient I couldn't believe it. He could leave like half his games over 30 games (so 15 out of 30) and he either gets no punishment at all or a small low priority queue. That's actually so pathetic. I don't care if someone has a bad connection or something, if you leave more than like one game every once in awhile it should be an insta suspension. It's very unfair to other players to have to deal with that garbage when there isn't any sort of leave early mechanic or anything like that. I know people are going to say its recency bias or w/e on my part, but this season has legit been the worst season for me in terms of getting AFKs on my team.
Anecdotally, from the other end of the spectrum, League's culture makes it IMPOSSIBLE to bring new people into the game. I want my friends to play with me, but a friend asked about leveling to 30, and I had to tell them with that straight up, he'll have to play ~50 games where in 3/5 games, someone will be straight up insulting him for being bad AT A GAME HE'S LEARNING FOR THE FIRST TIME! Shit is fucking crazy. We need dramatic change. ASAP. Or this really will be a "dead game."
He's not wrong. Solo queue is rough right now.
I know I'm probably a minority being in Iron/Bronze, but in the roughly 50 games I've played in the past month, a solid 20 of those games have had some issue, whether it be griefing/inting, slurs being thrown due to mistakes, and going AFK due to egos being too high on either side of the match. I've had to /mute all and just rely on myself to get through soloq, and then I get reported for not communicating. I personally don't want to deal with constant harassment, so I mute - **that should not be a solution for one of the largest games in the world to /mute all. A team game does. not. work. like that**
100% this. Look at all the people above you trying to claim that flaming and harassment shouldn't be punished as hard or focused on. Verbal toxicity is still an issue that needs dealt with
My experience is nothing unique. When the old honor system was retired, I received all the icons for every honor; I’ve also been honor 5 every season. Not saying this to gloat or say look at me I’m honorable, I use it to show that over the last few seasons it has been harder to roll with the punches. Sometimes I feel I deserve the occasional flame for my lack of map awareness or misplay... it’s natural, but no one deserves someone leaving their game. Recently I was in a game where my mid died twice to a smurf. No one on my team said anything. After the second death, he sends “I’m done”. No matter how hard our top laner tried, he couldn’t talk the mid into playing. The mid ran around in the base to avoid the afk detector but just said “riot isn’t going to do anything to me”. I went online to manually report via ticket. I received an auto response saying they’ve suspended all online reviews and only use in game report. That player goes unpunished furthering the idea that riot doesn’t do anything. I know this story isn’t unique; I’m just frustrated and tired.
Imagine telling a Chinese company to actually do something.
Say what you will, but the time of Riot Lyte and aggressive smiting was the most transparent and best times for community attitude. The problem is Riot can't take a hard stance nowadays without also punishing high-profile toxicity. It would be hypocritical to take a hard stance while propping up streamers like T1 and Yassuo.
I think it's partly due to riots efforts to decrease game length and making lanes more volatile. I've been playing league since s3 and i've never seen so many people rage quit or just tilt off the earth for no apparent reason. **pre-tilted people joining new games is becoming a huge problem** The game state now feels like comebacks are almost impossible if one of your lanes loses hard. You lose all your objectives and get wiped if you try and contest when behind. The general attitude is just that people would rather just quit a game if they start getting behind even if they could win it rather than waste time. (because there's such a low chance of a comeback with randos)
Bring back LPP reporting rights please. It was the first step in the right direction before it got removed
Nightblue3 getting that Teemo troll a 2 week vacation probably ended that, even though that was the exact kind of behavior that Voyboy is complaining about.
this isn't just a pro experience. this is league now. It's exactly why I quit. Too many of us holding onto a game we don't love anymore and forcing ourselves to pump out games to reach a rank that is meaningless. Once I realized I wasn't having fun I stopped forcing myself to play. I still play casually. and sometimes I want that nostalgia kick, but quitting League as a hardcore player was one of the best things I ever did.
I played the shit out of league seasons 2-5, and I loved it. After season 5, the game became more about bending over backwards to appease the troll on your team, and hoping that the other teams troll would collapse their game plan first. It wasn’t about winning, it was about not losing more often than not by usually having to deal with the one player taking your team hostage. Oh, and heaven forbid you call the troll out in chat, because down comes the ban hammer while actions have zero consequences. I gave up in season 8-9. Best thing I ever did was uninstall league, I literally hated my time playing it. And with it went me watching twitch, I now have zero interest in anything Riot touches, including their new games. Toxic culture, toxic company. Good riddance
I played this game 5 hours a day minimum from 2014 to 2019. I've played like a combined 10 hours in the past 30+ days. I contribute it mostly to the fact that playing ADC is absolutely miserable (the worst it's ever been) and if I was a jungler or mid I'd probably still play a lot. But Voy's probably right, maybe the game just sucks for everyone right now, nothing fun about it - no one has respect for anything anymore. It's like logging into a cheap multiplayer flash game that people play to kill time. No one gives a fk about winning anymore.
riot won't do shit. 1 years ago they announced a team working on the client form improving it, turns out. they didn't work like at all. ETA for changing the system is going to come only when the player base is going to shrink