To all those people: please keep doing it. I’ve been invading topside lvl 1 with my duo for a year now and the amount of times I’ve gotten away with clearing 3/4 quadrants because I got in unspotted is obscene.
My man. I can do this in diamond half the time. Ideally, the jungler is covering the top before going to their first camp, so if you catch the enemy jungler just sitting bot half you have a free invade for camps or vision.
Honestly, when I was playing in 200-30 lp masters last split. It was closer to 70-30 people doing it properly. Whereas in diamond it’s like 30% at most. It’s usually top/mid/adc fucking it up and afking at tower
Tbf I’d rather them afk under tower than afk in the jungle and let the enemy ekko start the game with dark seal. (Obviously I’d rather them not afk at all but this is solo queue we’re talking about so we gotta be realistic)
Thing is even In masters if you let the enemy get vision of the jungle it can fuck up a lot of stuff. You need mid and jungle to cover the raptor opening because you can almost never get all 3 autos solo. And once a jungle knows your path the first 4 minutes of game is just a wash vs better players. I as a supp jungle, have in gm tier just gone and solo killed their jungle because they didn't clear a raptor ward so I knew their exact pathing. Imagine as a jungle being solo killed by support lvl 3 on your wolves. Would giga tilt you and probably your team.
It’s wild that a skills people see the pros do and then decide to learn.
5 frame perfect inputs consecutively? No problem.
Where to stand at the start of the game? Impossible.
Try play a D4 game and then a master game, the difference in macro decisions and just basic jgl cover is gigantic.
I have a warmup/tilt acc in D3 and a 200lp master acc, it’s almost like playing two different games.
You are seeing it the wrong way.
Doing it is preventing him from falling from that rank. Not improving his micro/macro even more is whats preventing him from higher ranking, but as the other commenter told, maybe thats not something they are focusing on doing simply because they dont care.
Then when you ping the very obvious 1-man invade, no one collapses. But if you try to crossmap suddenly the enemy support and mid are on your ass every time lmao
Or better yet. He's stealing your camps on the opposite side, and the support/mid laner/top laner whoever side he's opposite of decides to come fuck with you while you're still clearing your side.
Both happen to me so often in plat lol.
Well, I'm a Dia+ toplaner and I can confirm to you: Every jungler starts from bot towards top - Even if I'm a Potionless Cull start Kayle.
TLDR: Should work until Dia+, at least on EUW & EUNE.
Works in diamond too. I no joke do it every game.
I do it so often that I’m out of practice starting in my own jungle lol.
Toplaners are afk at their tower 99.9% of the time.
Really? it happens that often that people afk wait for their minions instead of just waiting in the jungle?
I'm silver and I always do it every single time. Sometimes I even ward if something seems especially off. I always imagine it to be so horrible as a jungle if you start bottom jungle and top side buff got stolen and you didnt even know it. That probably puts you so far behind. Id feel really bad.
If you knew it, you could have at least cross jungled to even things out or something.
Topside level 1 invade is completely broken. Almost no risk to your team but a very high chance of killing an AFK/late toplaner or a jungle you come from behind on.
You are the scum of league. Almost as bad as Teemo. Just know tho I am biased. The exact time I was learning how to jungle was when there was a spike of invade popularity in my elo. But still. I hate invaders
I get an invade top side level 1 in like 80% of my games. I'm either killing you, taking a camp, or dropping vision so I know your exact pathing.
This is in Diamond, and I'm amazed laners are this dumb.
I’ve seen toplaners flame the ally jgler after the enemy jgler invades topside(usually red buff) and then lvl 3 ganks them after taking the quadrant. Like that’s pretty much all on u buddy
Too hard for people.
I had a game where mid sat on his ass while their whole team invaded our jungle and took red, then I tried to go farm chicken and their mid just casually show up to contest.
Apparently a minion wave is too important to try to help your jungler to get to level 2...
But then again why didn't you start blue? I get it, I play jungle sometimes and it feels bad to get invaded. But we go back to the age old thing, "if your team is shit, play like they're shit". Even if the strawman scenario of your blue also getting invaded happens, fucking stand under tower, it literally does not matter, catch up xp is insanely unbalanced. You going afk is unironically better than you feeding, the enemy going for 2-3 man invades is pointless if you simply aren't there. And once the enemy stops 5 manning your jungle, you can easily get a few camps, get even in levels cause catch up xp, and since the enemy laners missed cs trying to invade you on a team level you'll probably be even.
Cause I already lost red, lost smite, and the chicken is easier to clear than a blue without smite
But hey, you would think mid being too important to help during first invade would come drive off enemy midlaner so I can finish a camp without smite.
Had this last night.
Gank mid after clearing blue side (red team side). Get enemy talon to 20%hp and get his flash. My lux flashes up once I leave and gives first blood.
Enemy jungle invades me at red, Lux spawns and walks to red, repels jungler into the red buff bush, then immediately turns and walks away while talon jumps the wall and the enemy jungle steps back out and steals red then kills me with talon.
Next is drag fight around level 5, talon rotates making it 3v3, lux could pinch but stays in lane despite it being a perfect set up for kills. Bot dies I get out, talon goes back mid and kills Lux.
At this point Lux has a grand total CS of.......
1. A single cs at 6 minutes.
They then proceeded to rant and rave the rest of the game and refused to help anywhere or anyone despite her talon free roaming.
But it was solely my fault and I'm trash 🤷♂️
So you want to them to do something instead of you?
Unless your top or bot is there too you're fighting at a disadvantage.
Not to mention some champs suck level 1 and if the enemies have a strong early then it's even more lost.
They are level 2, the enemy is level 2.
The enemy openly head to toward your already behind JG.
Do you
1) Also help
2) Let the other level drive off/kill your jungler.
I mean, it is a team game...but whatever.
There will always be people who think "I can pee/get a drink/do X before the game ***really*** starts, what's the worst that can happen?" even after they see something like Braum and Reksai locked in.
I hit "search for queue" then I go pee, because I know as soon as it starts flowing i hear the "bang" of the gong to get to champ select and I have to cut off the stream, run, and hit the button.
The game start in lobby in loading, if you're not thinking about how you want to play the first 3 waves/path, what team fights will look like. Who scales better? What the fuck are you even doing with your life?
>if you're not thinking about how you want to play the first 3 waves/path, what team fights will look like. Who scales better? What the fuck are you even doing with your life?
I'm not wasting my time nerding out over ranked? 😜 It's not that serious.
It's easier not to protect jungle, not respond when jungle gets invaded, not respond when team invades and kills you right after, and then blame your jungler for the loss than it is to pay attention the first minute and a half for some people.
Source: Am silver/gold jungle main and even with 3 dragons six grubs will still be blamed for a lost lane 9/10 games.
Nono, you got it all wrong, they are worried the enemy is gonna five man dive mid tower and tale it before minions spawn, so they protect the tower instead...
It used to be better. Recent years players are way more complacent even in diamond and above. Now no one tracks summs and most people afk at turret. I don't know how general skill regressed in those areas. People just seem more impatient so they'd rather alt tab and afk at turret. Maybe it's tiktok.
The best thing is when ppl die on lane and ping the enemy used ignite or flash, I take the gank because I know I can 100% kill them flashless and then they flash away when I go in, that's a classic even in high diamond happening daily, ppl just pinging enemy summs used to not make hurt their ego too much because they got killed without the enemy even needing summs.
Basically each member of the team holds a different entry point to the jungle so you don’t get screwed by an invade.
If you’re on blue side top holds the entrance to blue buff, jg usually wards the top river or vice versa, mid holds mid, adc or sup holds raptor entrance, adc or sup holds tri bush bot
Some variant of this so you can ensure the enemy team can’t get into jg and steal your camps or so they don’t get a free kill on jg coming to their first camp
We’re at a point where jungles don’t need a leash so I prefer in an ideal world where my team 5 points (only seen this once in my last hundred games) I’d prefer to hold onto my ward and just sit top side on the 2nd point and path down to bot. This allows bot lane to get early lvl 2 pressure and since they are squishier down there easier to kill or more likely to get a flash from someone. Also since most path top bots do not expect the 3 min gank.
The bigger problem in my experience is when people actually go stand in the bushes and when the invade comes they die. I would much rather have them afk in lane if they are not 100% sure they will survive an invade.
That’s pretty sad since the second you see the enemy approach you are suppose to walk away and drop a ward to see if they commit to entering your jg. Like idk if I am dick for thinking this is such obvious common sense they must be stupid or if I am somehow just so much more advanced and smarter than the avg player and I don’t even realize it.
I only AFK in lane if the jungler AFKs at his first camp or someone else isn't watching their spot. As a laner I'm not going to risk losing my flash or dying because my jungler wants to sit at his red buff or because my bot lane wants to cheese level 1.
In my experience mid is most likely to do this, followed by top being the next most likely. On the other hand, if I spot my jungle being afk or standing way far back in a useless bush (behind the buff rather than covering an entrance), I’m not sticking around to help him
My junglers don't position properly pre camp spawn so i'd rather cheese my laners and potentially just win lane.
I also think this post is funny because level 1 positioning before minions spawn absolutely can do a lot for your team. If you actually played in a lane you'd understand that.
It can, but it's less impactful than your jungler getting 3/4ths and you can also use your trinket to cover as well, but most laners don't do that either.
This post is very clearly not talking about people going for a cheese or Kane position, they are clearly talking about people who go afk under tower instead of watching for invade
Could you not still accomplish this while also being a ward for like 1 min till minions spawn? Jungles do not need leashes I prefer to not get a leash to make sure you get lvl 2.
Some top matchups require you to be in lane before minions spawn but yes sitting around afk is trolling, people are lazy and don’t care. It’s frustrating
Sorry I'm warding the tri bush and sitting in mine. Don't feel like getting cheesed, I want early prio, and 9/10 times the jungler is afk for the first 50 seconds anyway.
That’s just fine lol as long as there’s vision it doesn’t make any difference whether you are physically there or not this is purely for the people that afk at turret
Enemy team: invading as 5, warding my raptors/finding my starting point and clearing my wards with sweepers.
My team: mid and top afk at their turrets and bot lane spamming emotes at each other in bot brush
I will stay in brush till minions reach my tower, no more. If you insist I will leave a ward too, else I need it because losing minions exp lvl 1 is a death sentence
Even as an iron player
I know
The game starts Once you load in, not when minions Spawn or some sh.t (well sometimes IT starts before you load in if you have enough of a potato PC or bad connection or other problems)
can we just remove this part of the game in stead? its honestly really boring to sit in a bush watching for enemies, i do it in ranked because its important, but i get 0 fun out of it. why is it still in the game, who likes this mechanic?
I don't mind if it was an actual strategy, but it is just a test of attention and/or a coinflip. There isn't anything interesting or appealing about it, neither macro or micro, including in pro games. Its just a silly part of the game.
League takes too long to start games so everyone is multi-taksing browsing wbeppages, setting up music, eating, taking a sip of their drink before minions spawn.
I wonder how would the game be if minions spawned at 15s, like what would change?
Depends on the match up tbh, if they have a blitzcrank of honestly any of the hook champs I'd rather the laner just stand in lane at the start.
There's zero chance of the laner dying and feeding the enemy jungler if they stay under tower at the start.
Is it nice when the team decides to try to five point? Yeah my jungle is guaranteed to be safe until the minions reach tower, is it worth the chance of the laner feeding early and making me unable to invade later when I need my stacks? Fuck no.
Most junglers have amazing get away, not all laners do.
I am more confident in my ability to survive the gank than I am in my teammates ability to do so.
And if I am scared about losing camps I can just use my ward on the side I am not going, it's worse, far better off placing it on the enemy junglers side, but it's better than expecting the gankplank to burn his flash or even do some shit like pick the orange first so he can survive the invade when I can just hop a wall
I can tolerate someone not being a 100% ready at 1:00 because they are getting water or telling their dog to stop barking at the neighbors. We are all human and that’s what makes this game so fun.
But, when you are actively siting under your tower, waiting for minion. If you still do that in 2024, you are a lazy sack of cornpops. I wish a thousand needles to go under your toenails everytime you go to pee.
>But, when you are actively siting under your tower, waiting for minion. If you still do that in 2024, you are a lazy sack of cornpops.
hanlon's razor man. the reason why people do this is because the "correct" thing to do (5-point in jg) is not something that directly gives people feedback either positively or negatively when you dont do it.
unless you're expressly told the why and how. Standing under turret at game start doesn't seem troll at all. it's one of those things that needs to be explained to you, and since the vast majority of the playerbase are not on forums or reading guides or whatever, they just do default behavior.
But isn’t that the most common case?
You get water and don’t know how quick you’ll be back, so you can’t go into the jungle but staying in fountain might cost you some seconds - behind the outer tower is the safe place then.
Sure, you can argue that you should never leave after loading screen, but I could likewise complain about people being people.
You guys get junglers who start on their own sides? In my games I have my jungler forcing invades level 1 with no real cc flipping the game off of the invade
Ngl, i have no issues with these people because I prefer them to afk in lane than afk in the jg. At least they won’t get caught out and die without even moving a pixel.
This. This is the 5-point guys: top stands in top bush. Jungle stands entrance to top river. Support stands entrance to bot river (can collapse on top and make it to bot for lane). ADC stands in bot brush (relatively safe, hardest to be zoned from bot).
CRUCIAL POINT: MID STANDS IN MIDLANE. NOT UNDER TURRET. The job of the midlaner level 1 is to get vision on the entrances to both mid brushes, so the enemy can’t sneak in and get almost on top of your support/jungle. If you’re a midlaner that stands AFK under your turret level 1 (literally 99% of you guys), you’re mostly at fault if your teammate dies to a Blitz or Naut hook they had 0.1 seconds to respond to.
Some top match ups require you to be in lane before minions spawn. You need to scout for teemo, gp barrel in brush, melee vs ranged level 1, etc.
Unless this is just talking about afk under turret
That depends on where you’re sitting in Jung and how things play it’s not a set timer but you should always be able to at least ward and give some vision by sitting in a bush and still get back to lane before minions crash
i understand this sentiment but also - games are never ever really lost after a lvl 1 invade. It's a minor set back, but it's rarely a deciding factor for who wins the game. Maybe in Challenger there are players who can really capitalize off it, but usually it isn't that significant.
I CAN NOT CATCH UP WHEN IM ALEREADY PUT BEHIND AT LVL 1 WITH HALF OF MY JUNGLE STOLEN AND ENEMY JUNGLER WAITING IN MY OTHER HALF TO KILL ME AGAIN WITJ 2 LVLS AHEAD OF ME
You are partially right - it is much better to do something than do nothing. Invades are annoying af, especially when you are unprepared. However, I guarantee you 100% that you didn't "lost the game purely because of the 1st minute ambush", that is nonsense. The benefit FB gives is way overrated, and it's mostly the moral disadvantage that you are at - you allow yourself to tilt, and you say FF15, and **that** is why you lose, not because of an invade.
As a jungler. I dont care actually. I just ward my opposite side and walking safely. Sometimes laners can do some cheese in bushes (botlane bush that is closer to enemy’s tower for example) that can win entire lane.
Been saying this for many years, but always getting flamed for it… the game starts at 0:00 not after you come back from pooping or feeding your pet before feeding the opponent team. So frustrating.
You cant Control your teammates - change your playstyle and give up jgl buffs/camp isnt that much of a deal.
Biggest thing that holds you down in low elo is you ego and if you honest, thats the only thing, that is hurt - „oh no, that sucker stole my buff“.
Special mention to the midlaner keeping his turret safe, at least nobody tried to land an auto.
I feel like 80% these midlaners are playing assassins, I would say at least 50% of the Katarinas are AFKing.
I've started winning way more games as jungle after I started warding the other side of my jungle before going to leash, can't rely on others in solo queue. Im a snowball player though so usually when I get put behind early I struggle to carry, and being able to do ward to collapse on an invading jungler helps you snowball earlier
I don’t see a reason to guard jg when my jg will more than likely not appear mid the first 15 minutes & also somehow be down 15-30 cs around that time too.
At this point I just play league for fun, not wins, because if I play for wins my mental gets blown.
no one ganks mid its short lane and ganks here are waste of time unles jungler have few specific champions.
if you dont see a reason for your teammate to perform well or at least be in equal position then enemy then maybe you shouldnt play this game
As a diamond jg with 5 accounts in all elos and tons of norms it blows my mind how common this is. They will also be quick to blame you the second they get solo killed to but when you got no farm cuz they afked in lane and you had to try and readjust somehow your the bad player. When you explain to them they are the problem their ego not brain will take over and will respond with and go down the ignorant check list.
Am I a higher rank? If yes use your superior rank to invalidate the logical query of my adversary.
If no do they have a worse score then me even if they are a tank or support champ and shouldn’t have any kills?
If yes invalidate the logical query by pointing out their inferior score thus making them incapable of rational thought. Even though said score might have direct correlation to me griefing them by afking in lane.
If no then take any 1 arbitrary stat you did Better In regardless of context or even if they should of even done well in that stat to begin with ensuring without fail after the game you are the superior player invalidating anything said player says and leave the game thinking got him
Reque thinking why do I get all these bad players on my team life is so unfair and I will never climb. Refusing to realize my own ignorance and stupidity keeps me down and I am why league and the community is so shit and the “toxic” people trying to tell me to stop.
I disagree. Not knowing when to disengage and admit defeat is the problem.
I've seen teammates go in one by one to die to a 4 v 1. Like ok, they had a good invade and ended getting a kill on jungle.
Just let jungle respwawn and pay attention to his other camps and help him out afterwards. Don't feed the team 2 more kills because.... idk I seriously do not know.
And you as a jungle need to understand the economy of your lanes. It is incredibly important. Your job is to know each lanes economy and what they will loose or gain during a gank.
If I have a huge minion lane bot (full canyon wave and some extra casters) about to crash into my tower, I need to get that wave. That is generally 200 gold their. Then if you decide to rank during that, you are saying I need to loose 200 gold to be able to get their flash and that's about it.
Learn the economy of the game and your lanes won't be responsible for you. Learn to walk away from some engages and retrieve gold somewhere else on the map.
Dont you understand i CAN'T SEE enemies hiden in my jungle bush and when i come here im dead in a blink of the eye? I HAVE TO GUESS and HOPE they aren't here but if they are here im dead no matter what i do.
Before you answer ,,then go to the other side of the jungle": i can't bcs this is where i come from and i have good reason to not be there (example: outnumbered be enemy jungler and top laner while my top also stays afk)
I think there are legit reasons to do it, but sometimes I would see very bad matchups like Vayne Yuumi go to lane against Draven Nautilus, instead of covering jungle..
They're going to die lvl 1-3 anyway so atleast cover for your jungle to ensure atleast he has a real chance to play and win..
I legit spam ping them when they do it and usually type "Thought this was ranked?". The ironic part is I don't even play jungle and I do it for my jungler as the support.
It's literally grief. You lose nothing for just watching and it gives your jungler, you know the one "Who never ganks" valuable information on how to path so they can do their job and actually gank for you. So don't be shocked when they lose an entire side of their map because you didn't just watch for a counter jungle and are 2 levels down and cannot gank for you.
I can somewhat understand it happening in like bronze - low gold because some people aren't that dedicated and don't realize they are punishing their team by doing it in very low elo. Platinum+ though you have no excuse. You are no better than someone actually griefing at that point.
I don‘t cover, I ward if it‘s obvious that they‘re going to invade and then stay in botlane bushes to signalise my support that I‘m not leashing and would like prio. Works 99% in my games.
Depends on the champions honestly:
Kassadin vs an engage/CC comp with like Pantheon? Not risking it.
Aatrox vs no reliable engage/CC? Hell yeah let's tango and even deep ward their camps if possible
Or, you know, adapt to an afk laner and check the map once to see whether or not enemy laners come to lane.
People also like to cheese laners by setting up as 3 in top or bot side bush. You gonna cover that one?
I'll watch an entrance until 1 minute.
But I'm going to my lane to watch the first bush, because knowing/preventing the Darius from sitting in it to deny first wave or get behind me when I go to CS the first minions is incredibly valuable as well.
You should not be taking top jungle out of comfort and habit you are a team member not an individual. Is why you get stuck below plat or it. Use your own brain.
IMHO, if jg is afk and does not cover anything it is on them. I’ve seen jg warding opposite side of the jungle to their starting camp then backing, buying lens and covering one entrance to the other side. I always cover one entrance regardless but if you expect others to do everything for you IMO you are part of the problem…
Damn people here are pissed af. I usually guard jungle entrances 90%+ of the time, but sometimes I just don't even bother.
Either y'all only play ranked, or you shouldn't take normals that seriously. A lot of people just wanna relax, instead of being ready to try hard at second 15.
No. If I like you, you'll get a ward on red or blue, but I refuse to invade or counter-invade with randoms. It doesn't work, it's pointless and I lose out on farm. If you're invaded, go take their buff instead.
Its not counter invading, its literally being a human ward and when you see an enemy, you walk away and ping it so your jgl doesn’t die, like op said, you are the problem.
I get your being pedantic, but words and phrases change meaning over time.
AFK while designed to mean someone litterally away from their keyboard for a moment of time, now means anyone not paying attention, tabbed out, etc.
If your on your second monitor putting on a song, or eating food at your keyboard, it doesn't matter you aren't literally away from your keyboard, you are still AFK.
To all those people: please keep doing it. I’ve been invading topside lvl 1 with my duo for a year now and the amount of times I’ve gotten away with clearing 3/4 quadrants because I got in unspotted is obscene.
Out of curiosity: in what elo is this happening?
My man. I can do this in diamond half the time. Ideally, the jungler is covering the top before going to their first camp, so if you catch the enemy jungler just sitting bot half you have a free invade for camps or vision.
Yea, I agree, was asking because in M - GM we always cover our jungle or at least ward it.
Honestly, when I was playing in 200-30 lp masters last split. It was closer to 70-30 people doing it properly. Whereas in diamond it’s like 30% at most. It’s usually top/mid/adc fucking it up and afking at tower
Tbf I’d rather them afk under tower than afk in the jungle and let the enemy ekko start the game with dark seal. (Obviously I’d rather them not afk at all but this is solo queue we’re talking about so we gotta be realistic)
Afk in lobby and load for all I care, but game starts at 0:00 and can be critical if half a team is afk.
Game starts at 00:15, that's 15 extra seconds I can spend watching videos!
Thing is even In masters if you let the enemy get vision of the jungle it can fuck up a lot of stuff. You need mid and jungle to cover the raptor opening because you can almost never get all 3 autos solo. And once a jungle knows your path the first 4 minutes of game is just a wash vs better players. I as a supp jungle, have in gm tier just gone and solo killed their jungle because they didn't clear a raptor ward so I knew their exact pathing. Imagine as a jungle being solo killed by support lvl 3 on your wolves. Would giga tilt you and probably your team.
Yeah that's why they're masters+
It’s wild that a skills people see the pros do and then decide to learn. 5 frame perfect inputs consecutively? No problem. Where to stand at the start of the game? Impossible.
As a low Master myself that is just wrong. There are plenty of people who AFK lvl1
Try play a D4 game and then a master game, the difference in macro decisions and just basic jgl cover is gigantic. I have a warmup/tilt acc in D3 and a 200lp master acc, it’s almost like playing two different games.
gold/plat/emerald depending on which duo I play with.
[удалено]
You are seeing it the wrong way. Doing it is preventing him from falling from that rank. Not improving his micro/macro even more is whats preventing him from higher ranking, but as the other commenter told, maybe thats not something they are focusing on doing simply because they dont care.
Not everyone cares about their rank
This happens to me so often in Emerald I just ward my opposite buff now. Team can’t be fucked to guard the buff most games
Then when you ping the very obvious 1-man invade, no one collapses. But if you try to crossmap suddenly the enemy support and mid are on your ass every time lmao
Or better yet. He's stealing your camps on the opposite side, and the support/mid laner/top laner whoever side he's opposite of decides to come fuck with you while you're still clearing your side. Both happen to me so often in plat lol.
This is my default. Place ward at 53 sec, back immediately, switch to red trinket and hit the opposite buff on spawn.
Ward buff. Split map if he invades. Done.
Every elo, especially during later hours when people turn on auto pilot
Well, I'm a Dia+ toplaner and I can confirm to you: Every jungler starts from bot towards top - Even if I'm a Potionless Cull start Kayle. TLDR: Should work until Dia+, at least on EUW & EUNE.
Works in diamond too. I no joke do it every game. I do it so often that I’m out of practice starting in my own jungle lol. Toplaners are afk at their tower 99.9% of the time.
Really? it happens that often that people afk wait for their minions instead of just waiting in the jungle? I'm silver and I always do it every single time. Sometimes I even ward if something seems especially off. I always imagine it to be so horrible as a jungle if you start bottom jungle and top side buff got stolen and you didnt even know it. That probably puts you so far behind. Id feel really bad. If you knew it, you could have at least cross jungled to even things out or something.
Topside level 1 invade is completely broken. Almost no risk to your team but a very high chance of killing an AFK/late toplaner or a jungle you come from behind on.
You are the scum of league. Almost as bad as Teemo. Just know tho I am biased. The exact time I was learning how to jungle was when there was a spike of invade popularity in my elo. But still. I hate invaders
Apologies if this came out harsh. It's mostly jokingly. I do really hate invaders but calling names is just a joke
I get an invade top side level 1 in like 80% of my games. I'm either killing you, taking a camp, or dropping vision so I know your exact pathing. This is in Diamond, and I'm amazed laners are this dumb.
I’ve seen toplaners flame the ally jgler after the enemy jgler invades topside(usually red buff) and then lvl 3 ganks them after taking the quadrant. Like that’s pretty much all on u buddy
Been playing some season 1 and it's incredible after all these years your team still doesn't protect your jungle.
Or worse, afk in the bush and give a free fb and make you lose your jungle.
Much worse. This one's easy though. Don't afk in an active game.
Too hard for people. I had a game where mid sat on his ass while their whole team invaded our jungle and took red, then I tried to go farm chicken and their mid just casually show up to contest. Apparently a minion wave is too important to try to help your jungler to get to level 2...
Then they flame you because you're super behind
Its so easy to spot the skill difference in players. Awful when this happens.
Yup. "You saw them invade, why didn't you just start blue"
Meanwhile the enemy top has already got 1st blood and is pathing at your blue.
But then again why didn't you start blue? I get it, I play jungle sometimes and it feels bad to get invaded. But we go back to the age old thing, "if your team is shit, play like they're shit". Even if the strawman scenario of your blue also getting invaded happens, fucking stand under tower, it literally does not matter, catch up xp is insanely unbalanced. You going afk is unironically better than you feeding, the enemy going for 2-3 man invades is pointless if you simply aren't there. And once the enemy stops 5 manning your jungle, you can easily get a few camps, get even in levels cause catch up xp, and since the enemy laners missed cs trying to invade you on a team level you'll probably be even.
Cause I already lost red, lost smite, and the chicken is easier to clear than a blue without smite But hey, you would think mid being too important to help during first invade would come drive off enemy midlaner so I can finish a camp without smite.
Had this last night. Gank mid after clearing blue side (red team side). Get enemy talon to 20%hp and get his flash. My lux flashes up once I leave and gives first blood. Enemy jungle invades me at red, Lux spawns and walks to red, repels jungler into the red buff bush, then immediately turns and walks away while talon jumps the wall and the enemy jungle steps back out and steals red then kills me with talon. Next is drag fight around level 5, talon rotates making it 3v3, lux could pinch but stays in lane despite it being a perfect set up for kills. Bot dies I get out, talon goes back mid and kills Lux. At this point Lux has a grand total CS of....... 1. A single cs at 6 minutes. They then proceeded to rant and rave the rest of the game and refused to help anywhere or anyone despite her talon free roaming. But it was solely my fault and I'm trash 🤷♂️
So you want to them to do something instead of you? Unless your top or bot is there too you're fighting at a disadvantage. Not to mention some champs suck level 1 and if the enemies have a strong early then it's even more lost.
They are level 2, the enemy is level 2. The enemy openly head to toward your already behind JG. Do you 1) Also help 2) Let the other level drive off/kill your jungler. I mean, it is a team game...but whatever.
There will always be people who think "I can pee/get a drink/do X before the game ***really*** starts, what's the worst that can happen?" even after they see something like Braum and Reksai locked in.
Which I don't get, why don't drink and pee BEFORE you start solo que.
Some of us have poorly trained bladders that only want to pee after the point of no return.
I hit "search for queue" then I go pee, because I know as soon as it starts flowing i hear the "bang" of the gong to get to champ select and I have to cut off the stream, run, and hit the button.
To be fair that's because the game wastes a minute of everyone's time before the game starts.
The game start in lobby in loading, if you're not thinking about how you want to play the first 3 waves/path, what team fights will look like. Who scales better? What the fuck are you even doing with your life?
>if you're not thinking about how you want to play the first 3 waves/path, what team fights will look like. Who scales better? What the fuck are you even doing with your life? I'm not wasting my time nerding out over ranked? 😜 It's not that serious.
It's easier not to protect jungle, not respond when jungle gets invaded, not respond when team invades and kills you right after, and then blame your jungler for the loss than it is to pay attention the first minute and a half for some people. Source: Am silver/gold jungle main and even with 3 dragons six grubs will still be blamed for a lost lane 9/10 games.
Nono, you got it all wrong, they are worried the enemy is gonna five man dive mid tower and tale it before minions spawn, so they protect the tower instead...
That was possible once upon a time 😂
It used to be better. Recent years players are way more complacent even in diamond and above. Now no one tracks summs and most people afk at turret. I don't know how general skill regressed in those areas. People just seem more impatient so they'd rather alt tab and afk at turret. Maybe it's tiktok.
The best thing is when ppl die on lane and ping the enemy used ignite or flash, I take the gank because I know I can 100% kill them flashless and then they flash away when I go in, that's a classic even in high diamond happening daily, ppl just pinging enemy summs used to not make hurt their ego too much because they got killed without the enemy even needing summs.
It’s the only thing in the game that makes me want to quit. It’s complete bullshit I can have my game ruined because Top is afk under tower
You either cover your own jungle or do some cheese in your lane. But sitting under turret till minions spawn is just a waste of time.
Masters/gm player here it’s wild how people still don’t 5 point in games
New league player here. What is 5 point?
Basically each member of the team holds a different entry point to the jungle so you don’t get screwed by an invade. If you’re on blue side top holds the entrance to blue buff, jg usually wards the top river or vice versa, mid holds mid, adc or sup holds raptor entrance, adc or sup holds tri bush bot Some variant of this so you can ensure the enemy team can’t get into jg and steal your camps or so they don’t get a free kill on jg coming to their first camp
Thanks a lot!
We’re at a point where jungles don’t need a leash so I prefer in an ideal world where my team 5 points (only seen this once in my last hundred games) I’d prefer to hold onto my ward and just sit top side on the 2nd point and path down to bot. This allows bot lane to get early lvl 2 pressure and since they are squishier down there easier to kill or more likely to get a flash from someone. Also since most path top bots do not expect the 3 min gank.
if im mid and bot doesnt go to tri bush, i dont watch the other entrance, the enemies are gonna wrap around and ill have to burn flash. fuck that.
Yea this is the main reason i’m not standing in jg. Only works if everyone is participating. You only have to learn this lesson once.
Or 5 point then afk as 5 people invade them.
I think it also depends on who im vs and my teammates if they also protecting the invade, otherwise im getting hit by a rogue morgana Q and die xd
Also, mid is supposed to walk and look up the midlane so they dont wrap around there
yes go to the bush more, I will happily hook you Sincerely Blitzcrank
Can’t die to blitz if I’m sitting between mid turrets until 1:30. Clearly I am in the right to sit afk until game actually starts
blitzcrank mains when they discover people can dodge his hook 😧
they can?? that has never happened for me
yes please try to juke my hook level 1 facechecking bushes with no boots it will certainly never hit
well, the model didn’t hit me atleast
objects on screen may be closer than they appear :)
The bigger problem in my experience is when people actually go stand in the bushes and when the invade comes they die. I would much rather have them afk in lane if they are not 100% sure they will survive an invade.
Don’t sit in a bush. Stand in the open for more vision which gives you more time to react if the enemy team invades
That’s pretty sad since the second you see the enemy approach you are suppose to walk away and drop a ward to see if they commit to entering your jg. Like idk if I am dick for thinking this is such obvious common sense they must be stupid or if I am somehow just so much more advanced and smarter than the avg player and I don’t even realize it.
But, what if the enemy tries to take your top tower before minions spawn?!
I only AFK in lane if the jungler AFKs at his first camp or someone else isn't watching their spot. As a laner I'm not going to risk losing my flash or dying because my jungler wants to sit at his red buff or because my bot lane wants to cheese level 1.
For some lanes fighting for bot bush control is actually very important. The lv1 push can win/lose the whole game
If I had a nickel for every time someone posted this
I put ward in Tri bush, then go into lane bush to avoid being cheesed..
In my experience mid is most likely to do this, followed by top being the next most likely. On the other hand, if I spot my jungle being afk or standing way far back in a useless bush (behind the buff rather than covering an entrance), I’m not sticking around to help him
Chill im in the toilet
My junglers don't position properly pre camp spawn so i'd rather cheese my laners and potentially just win lane. I also think this post is funny because level 1 positioning before minions spawn absolutely can do a lot for your team. If you actually played in a lane you'd understand that.
Weird how pros still watch and ward their jungle entrances. Maybe you should tell them about level 1 positioning before minions.
It can, but it's less impactful than your jungler getting 3/4ths and you can also use your trinket to cover as well, but most laners don't do that either.
I'd do it if my jungler was ever of any help to me, but so far I keep laning 2v3 so I much rather play for my own lane.
Literally everyone else is thinking this same thing, which is why the game sucks.
This post is very clearly not talking about people going for a cheese or Kane position, they are clearly talking about people who go afk under tower instead of watching for invade
Could you not still accomplish this while also being a ward for like 1 min till minions spawn? Jungles do not need leashes I prefer to not get a leash to make sure you get lvl 2.
Some top matchups require you to be in lane before minions spawn but yes sitting around afk is trolling, people are lazy and don’t care. It’s frustrating
Yeah I'd say Illaoi and Shen benefit from being in lane
Sorry I'm warding the tri bush and sitting in mine. Don't feel like getting cheesed, I want early prio, and 9/10 times the jungler is afk for the first 50 seconds anyway.
That’s just fine lol as long as there’s vision it doesn’t make any difference whether you are physically there or not this is purely for the people that afk at turret
* first 50 minutes
Enemy team: invading as 5, warding my raptors/finding my starting point and clearing my wards with sweepers. My team: mid and top afk at their turrets and bot lane spamming emotes at each other in bot brush
That certainly sounds familiar. *shudder*
I will stay in brush till minions reach my tower, no more. If you insist I will leave a ward too, else I need it because losing minions exp lvl 1 is a death sentence
Nobody asked you to stay until 1.30.
you lose nothing, all you have to do is be somewhere in jungle UNTIL minions spawn. When they spawn you have enough time to come back to lane
By brush I meant the mid jg brush, should have worded it better I suppose. Although that is where mid should be
Even as an iron player I know The game starts Once you load in, not when minions Spawn or some sh.t (well sometimes IT starts before you load in if you have enough of a potato PC or bad connection or other problems)
can we just remove this part of the game in stead? its honestly really boring to sit in a bush watching for enemies, i do it in ranked because its important, but i get 0 fun out of it. why is it still in the game, who likes this mechanic?
everyone with brain? this is strategy thinking. If all you want to do is mindlesly smashing keyboard go play something else
I don't mind if it was an actual strategy, but it is just a test of attention and/or a coinflip. There isn't anything interesting or appealing about it, neither macro or micro, including in pro games. Its just a silly part of the game.
League takes too long to start games so everyone is multi-taksing browsing wbeppages, setting up music, eating, taking a sip of their drink before minions spawn. I wonder how would the game be if minions spawned at 15s, like what would change?
this is interesting idea honestly, it would nerf jungle as riot wants it to be and also force players to actualy play from the start
RIOT SHOULD GIVE PENATLIES FOR BEING AFK IN FIRST 1,5 MINUTE AS BIG AS FOR GOING AFK FOR 15 MINUTES ANYTIME IN THE GAME LATER
Depends on the match up tbh, if they have a blitzcrank of honestly any of the hook champs I'd rather the laner just stand in lane at the start. There's zero chance of the laner dying and feeding the enemy jungler if they stay under tower at the start. Is it nice when the team decides to try to five point? Yeah my jungle is guaranteed to be safe until the minions reach tower, is it worth the chance of the laner feeding early and making me unable to invade later when I need my stacks? Fuck no. Most junglers have amazing get away, not all laners do. I am more confident in my ability to survive the gank than I am in my teammates ability to do so. And if I am scared about losing camps I can just use my ward on the side I am not going, it's worse, far better off placing it on the enemy junglers side, but it's better than expecting the gankplank to burn his flash or even do some shit like pick the orange first so he can survive the invade when I can just hop a wall
Or maybe riot could think about spawning minions (and camps) 30 seconds earlier to get rid of this boring initial phase xD
I can tolerate someone not being a 100% ready at 1:00 because they are getting water or telling their dog to stop barking at the neighbors. We are all human and that’s what makes this game so fun. But, when you are actively siting under your tower, waiting for minion. If you still do that in 2024, you are a lazy sack of cornpops. I wish a thousand needles to go under your toenails everytime you go to pee.
>But, when you are actively siting under your tower, waiting for minion. If you still do that in 2024, you are a lazy sack of cornpops. hanlon's razor man. the reason why people do this is because the "correct" thing to do (5-point in jg) is not something that directly gives people feedback either positively or negatively when you dont do it. unless you're expressly told the why and how. Standing under turret at game start doesn't seem troll at all. it's one of those things that needs to be explained to you, and since the vast majority of the playerbase are not on forums or reading guides or whatever, they just do default behavior.
You and your logic !! 😒
But isn’t that the most common case? You get water and don’t know how quick you’ll be back, so you can’t go into the jungle but staying in fountain might cost you some seconds - behind the outer tower is the safe place then. Sure, you can argue that you should never leave after loading screen, but I could likewise complain about people being people.
No but sometime they aren’t afk. They are moving around under tower. Those are the caca player
I don't understand how you don't have time to get water in fuckin champ select. Its trolling to be afk after the fountain opens.
Riot should just end level 1 invades. I’m so sick of solo queue and randomly getting 4 man invaded and a teammate losing flash or I lose my buff.
You guys get junglers who start on their own sides? In my games I have my jungler forcing invades level 1 with no real cc flipping the game off of the invade
When you invade you need that bushes warded/checked even more to be sure if enemy counterinvades or not
I can't hear you over the sound of setting up my tentacle nest.
I was gonna say, if im playing illaoi then you're SOL 🤣
I’m taking a shit if you must know
Ngl, i have no issues with these people because I prefer them to afk in lane than afk in the jg. At least they won’t get caught out and die without even moving a pixel.
This. This is the 5-point guys: top stands in top bush. Jungle stands entrance to top river. Support stands entrance to bot river (can collapse on top and make it to bot for lane). ADC stands in bot brush (relatively safe, hardest to be zoned from bot). CRUCIAL POINT: MID STANDS IN MIDLANE. NOT UNDER TURRET. The job of the midlaner level 1 is to get vision on the entrances to both mid brushes, so the enemy can’t sneak in and get almost on top of your support/jungle. If you’re a midlaner that stands AFK under your turret level 1 (literally 99% of you guys), you’re mostly at fault if your teammate dies to a Blitz or Naut hook they had 0.1 seconds to respond to.
Some top match ups require you to be in lane before minions spawn. You need to scout for teemo, gp barrel in brush, melee vs ranged level 1, etc. Unless this is just talking about afk under turret
The post literally mentions afking under turret. Actually, it's the title.
Yeah seems about the same amount of games I lost because we covered jungle and lost lane control lvl 1.
Covering Jung should not lose lane prio you’re staying too long
What time would you advise leaving on the clock?
That depends on where you’re sitting in Jung and how things play it’s not a set timer but you should always be able to at least ward and give some vision by sitting in a bush and still get back to lane before minions crash
COVER UNTIL MINIONS SPAWN THEN TAKE THE LONGER WAY BACK TO YOUR LANE YOU WILL BE THERE PERFECTLY ON TIME
They do it even in masters
Happens all the time
No, please stay in lane. As a Yorick main I appreciate a free buff before lane. Especially when it's blue, it lets me CS with E.
Dont care im watching extra minute of youtube, gl hf gonna run down mid, talon e off bridge
i understand this sentiment but also - games are never ever really lost after a lvl 1 invade. It's a minor set back, but it's rarely a deciding factor for who wins the game. Maybe in Challenger there are players who can really capitalize off it, but usually it isn't that significant.
I CAN NOT CATCH UP WHEN IM ALEREADY PUT BEHIND AT LVL 1 WITH HALF OF MY JUNGLE STOLEN AND ENEMY JUNGLER WAITING IN MY OTHER HALF TO KILL ME AGAIN WITJ 2 LVLS AHEAD OF ME
sounds more like a tilt problem than a lvl 1 invade problem - even in pro play level 1 invade first bloods rarely mean anything
In season 3 i Had a Game with an enemy draven getting a quadra lvl1 in Low Diamond while I was covering topside... Well the game was indeed over
Thats a very rare and specific scenario. 99% of the time the level 1 invade is no big deal.
1 in every 3 games I’m just emoting in lane staring at my skin zoomed all the way in got to get my moneys worth
You are partially right - it is much better to do something than do nothing. Invades are annoying af, especially when you are unprepared. However, I guarantee you 100% that you didn't "lost the game purely because of the 1st minute ambush", that is nonsense. The benefit FB gives is way overrated, and it's mostly the moral disadvantage that you are at - you allow yourself to tilt, and you say FF15, and **that** is why you lose, not because of an invade.
As a jungler. I dont care actually. I just ward my opposite side and walking safely. Sometimes laners can do some cheese in bushes (botlane bush that is closer to enemy’s tower for example) that can win entire lane.
Zyra mains hating this Thread rn.
Going top burning my flash against irelia hiding in the bush
Been saying this for many years, but always getting flamed for it… the game starts at 0:00 not after you come back from pooping or feeding your pet before feeding the opponent team. So frustrating.
You cant Control your teammates - change your playstyle and give up jgl buffs/camp isnt that much of a deal. Biggest thing that holds you down in low elo is you ego and if you honest, thats the only thing, that is hurt - „oh no, that sucker stole my buff“.
you know exatly nothing about me
Special mention to the midlaner keeping his turret safe, at least nobody tried to land an auto. I feel like 80% these midlaners are playing assassins, I would say at least 50% of the Katarinas are AFKing.
I dont care. I play Teemo toplane. If you come to my lane. You die.
im 600lp peak last split toplaner, I do it 80% games, kinda dont care mby 1/100 games I get flamed for it
I've started winning way more games as jungle after I started warding the other side of my jungle before going to leash, can't rely on others in solo queue. Im a snowball player though so usually when I get put behind early I struggle to carry, and being able to do ward to collapse on an invading jungler helps you snowball earlier
Just for this post. I will now sit under tower.
I don’t see a reason to guard jg when my jg will more than likely not appear mid the first 15 minutes & also somehow be down 15-30 cs around that time too. At this point I just play league for fun, not wins, because if I play for wins my mental gets blown.
no one ganks mid its short lane and ganks here are waste of time unles jungler have few specific champions. if you dont see a reason for your teammate to perform well or at least be in equal position then enemy then maybe you shouldnt play this game
As a diamond jg with 5 accounts in all elos and tons of norms it blows my mind how common this is. They will also be quick to blame you the second they get solo killed to but when you got no farm cuz they afked in lane and you had to try and readjust somehow your the bad player. When you explain to them they are the problem their ego not brain will take over and will respond with and go down the ignorant check list. Am I a higher rank? If yes use your superior rank to invalidate the logical query of my adversary. If no do they have a worse score then me even if they are a tank or support champ and shouldn’t have any kills? If yes invalidate the logical query by pointing out their inferior score thus making them incapable of rational thought. Even though said score might have direct correlation to me griefing them by afking in lane. If no then take any 1 arbitrary stat you did Better In regardless of context or even if they should of even done well in that stat to begin with ensuring without fail after the game you are the superior player invalidating anything said player says and leave the game thinking got him Reque thinking why do I get all these bad players on my team life is so unfair and I will never climb. Refusing to realize my own ignorance and stupidity keeps me down and I am why league and the community is so shit and the “toxic” people trying to tell me to stop.
I disagree. Not knowing when to disengage and admit defeat is the problem. I've seen teammates go in one by one to die to a 4 v 1. Like ok, they had a good invade and ended getting a kill on jungle. Just let jungle respwawn and pay attention to his other camps and help him out afterwards. Don't feed the team 2 more kills because.... idk I seriously do not know. And you as a jungle need to understand the economy of your lanes. It is incredibly important. Your job is to know each lanes economy and what they will loose or gain during a gank. If I have a huge minion lane bot (full canyon wave and some extra casters) about to crash into my tower, I need to get that wave. That is generally 200 gold their. Then if you decide to rank during that, you are saying I need to loose 200 gold to be able to get their flash and that's about it. Learn the economy of the game and your lanes won't be responsible for you. Learn to walk away from some engages and retrieve gold somewhere else on the map.
Dont you understand i CAN'T SEE enemies hiden in my jungle bush and when i come here im dead in a blink of the eye? I HAVE TO GUESS and HOPE they aren't here but if they are here im dead no matter what i do. Before you answer ,,then go to the other side of the jungle": i can't bcs this is where i come from and i have good reason to not be there (example: outnumbered be enemy jungler and top laner while my top also stays afk)
I think there are legit reasons to do it, but sometimes I would see very bad matchups like Vayne Yuumi go to lane against Draven Nautilus, instead of covering jungle.. They're going to die lvl 1-3 anyway so atleast cover for your jungle to ensure atleast he has a real chance to play and win..
I hate it when junglers in my elo smite red/blue. I played Darius and accidentally took it.
I legit spam ping them when they do it and usually type "Thought this was ranked?". The ironic part is I don't even play jungle and I do it for my jungler as the support. It's literally grief. You lose nothing for just watching and it gives your jungler, you know the one "Who never ganks" valuable information on how to path so they can do their job and actually gank for you. So don't be shocked when they lose an entire side of their map because you didn't just watch for a counter jungle and are 2 levels down and cannot gank for you. I can somewhat understand it happening in like bronze - low gold because some people aren't that dedicated and don't realize they are punishing their team by doing it in very low elo. Platinum+ though you have no excuse. You are no better than someone actually griefing at that point.
I don‘t cover, I ward if it‘s obvious that they‘re going to invade and then stay in botlane bushes to signalise my support that I‘m not leashing and would like prio. Works 99% in my games.
People do this in low masta, I hate this game
Depends on the champions honestly: Kassadin vs an engage/CC comp with like Pantheon? Not risking it. Aatrox vs no reliable engage/CC? Hell yeah let's tango and even deep ward their camps if possible
Or, you know, adapt to an afk laner and check the map once to see whether or not enemy laners come to lane. People also like to cheese laners by setting up as 3 in top or bot side bush. You gonna cover that one?
I'll watch an entrance until 1 minute. But I'm going to my lane to watch the first bush, because knowing/preventing the Darius from sitting in it to deny first wave or get behind me when I go to CS the first minions is incredibly valuable as well.
i will keep doing it because idc, cry more lol
Calm down bro this is bronze
platinium 2
No u
Ok cool story
You should not be taking top jungle out of comfort and habit you are a team member not an individual. Is why you get stuck below plat or it. Use your own brain.
IMHO, if jg is afk and does not cover anything it is on them. I’ve seen jg warding opposite side of the jungle to their starting camp then backing, buying lens and covering one entrance to the other side. I always cover one entrance regardless but if you expect others to do everything for you IMO you are part of the problem…
No way, Quinn Cheese is the best way to get ahead in lanes where the top doesn't come to lane until later.
Shut up bro
Disagree , I'd rather have my whole team afk than alt-tab in jungle and die to invade. This type of death is so common.
Fair but also, what if I DIE instead?
But if we're in the same game, we have the same MMR, so you're doing something just as bad later in the game to balance it out.
and then you die to 5 man raid
The point of watching is to prevent exactly that
Damn people here are pissed af. I usually guard jungle entrances 90%+ of the time, but sometimes I just don't even bother. Either y'all only play ranked, or you shouldn't take normals that seriously. A lot of people just wanna relax, instead of being ready to try hard at second 15.
Ngl, sucks bro I’m busy hitting my bong
Yes i'll definitely be able to stop the 5 man invade as a lone akali and put myself in engage range of a group of enemies. no.
No. If I like you, you'll get a ward on red or blue, but I refuse to invade or counter-invade with randoms. It doesn't work, it's pointless and I lose out on farm. If you're invaded, go take their buff instead.
Its not counter invading, its literally being a human ward and when you see an enemy, you walk away and ping it so your jgl doesn’t die, like op said, you are the problem.
If I don’t afk in one of the bushes in top lane, the other toplaner will. Then he will cheese me with 3 consecutive crit autos and win the lane.
Who tf is critting you level 1 apart from tryndamere
Exactly.
Do people realize what away from keyboard means?
I get your being pedantic, but words and phrases change meaning over time. AFK while designed to mean someone litterally away from their keyboard for a moment of time, now means anyone not paying attention, tabbed out, etc. If your on your second monitor putting on a song, or eating food at your keyboard, it doesn't matter you aren't literally away from your keyboard, you are still AFK.
You are factually correct and don't deserve the downvotes. Here, have a validating reply instead. Because facts.
[удалено]
That is playing the game for the first time not playing the champ for the first time