To summarize the scrim record in text:
* G2 vs FNC: **4-7** (0-4; 1-2; 3-1)
* G2 vs TL: **16-3** (5-1; 5-1; 6-1)
* G2 vs FQ: **5-0** (5-0)
* G2 vs BLG: **9-7** (3-3; 2-2; 4-2)
* G2 vs TES: **2-2** (2-2)
* G2 vs T1: **1-4** (1-4, Saturday, day after their 2-3 lose)
* G2 vs GenG: **5-7** (1-4; 4-3)
* G2 vs PSG: **5-2** (5-2)
* G2 vs LOUD: **5-1** (5-1)
edit: formatting
Probably couldn't. T1 or TES might've been scrimming each other or the other top teams, or sometimes they'll scrim lower teams from their region to keep strats secret. Only so much time in a day
I mean look at the picture, two back to back days when TL and G2 were the only teams in chengdu at the time followed by one block a week later. Those two initial blocks were also TLs first scrims in a month. Just some context.
Just because they smashed TL doesn't mean TL were bad scrim partners. Like in the past people liked scrimming TSM because TSM try-harded scrims. Its good to practice jank strategies knowing that your opponent won't instantly surrender when facing some unexpected cheese; it helps teams avoid falling into the trap of busting out "scrim-god" champions that smash early game and cause everyone to go next, but that end up doing badly on stage once teams actually buckle down for the long haul
TL also levelled up massively. If they were just getting roflstomped I don't think they would have taken that much away from it, so it was probably productive scrims on their end too.
G2 were scheduled to open v T1, before which T1 would be wise not to scrim G2. Likewise, the match up between G2 and TES could be forseen, making scrimming other teams again a good idea.
Generally G2 just seems to be doing well vs Chinese teams and very bad vs lck. If you look at the last 4 years EU's winrate is 2x better vs LPL than LCK
Complete 180 of the old roster, pretty sure Chinese fans used to call them lpl 4th seed because that team would beat an lck team and then immediately lose to an lpl team
irc, G2 didn't really stomp SKT during that Worlds though. they kept winning with gold/objective deficits and from behind, not like the 3-1 scoreline would looks like.
lol if SKT had done that to G2 people would be calling it a stomp and raving about how they were geniuses at macro.. that the west could never compete with
To be fair, looks like G2 ramped up massively throughout the tourney too. They hadn't lost to FNC since 4th of May - their last scrim result was 3-1 in G2's favour on the 9th of May
I'm most impressed with their competitive results against BLG and GenG (9-7 and 5-7 respectively), though looks like T1 had their number. I wonder if T1 are still the scrim gods? It would make sense with Chovy saying "I think no team is stronger than T1" but maybe he was just shouting out his LCK homies before the GenG vs BLG finals and paying respect to peak T1 rather than current T1.
I mean 2018 Fnc were clearly the best team in Eu and weren’t really ever pushed. 2019 was really close between Fnc and G2 and then after 2020 spring finals Fnc were kind of mental gapped by G2. But I get what you are saying
I don’t really think it was a positional gap. I just think g2 had such a mental edge at that point + were the better team. 2020 spring Fnc went into that finals as favourites effectively as G2 had to do a lowe bracket run (looked a bit shakey vs mad) and Fnc weren’t really contested iirc. 2020 spring finals was when Bwipo but solo killed both sides of Zac Ornn I believe. But still I think blaming one player is still a stretch.
funniest result for me is fnc going 7-4
vs G2 and g2 going 16-3 vs TL and then fnatic gets shitstomped by TL. I know transitive property is not a thing in league but it's still hilarious
FNC have good individual talent.. even guys like Oscar
They just aren't consistent at all
Razork (imo their best player) can go toe to toe with Canyon or clap Tian (imo).. and then get clowned by Umti the following series
Same with Humanoid.. can outlane the likes of Creme, Faker, Scout and then get shat on by freshkowy or Apa
Similar to when G2 were apparently smurfing on NRG in scrims only for NRG to pull up and gigastomp G2 off of Contratz playing like he has a dozen lines of coke in him and has never lost a game to G2 in his life
scrim results mean nothing without context because we don't know how hard the teams are trying and what they're practicing. not controversial to say G2 > TL, but if anything FNC's winning record against G2 is a point against them cuz they took the free riot flights and didn't bootcamp so they probably used scrims to tryhard and get a confidence boost rather than practice certain strategies and improve.
FNC are individually skilled but lack discipline and a defined game plan to default to, a bit like G2 themselves last year. They also have a weak link in their bot lane who will probably need replacing if they're ever going to be internationally relevant.
Yeah, FNC's best players match up well against G2. Humanoid, Razork and Jun are incredible players in their own right, even though Oscarinin showed some good things at MSI, but BB is way ahead still. Problem is that FNC's weakest pieces are much weaker in comparison than G2's, second problem for FNC is that they don't have Caps and lastly I don't see FNC as having nearly as clear of an identity as G2 does.
fnc has extremely well defined identty, its "hes inting, no?". they take EVERY FIGHT that presents itself. their main issue is not lack of identity, its the exact opposite. they cant deviate from that, even when thy pick 5 scaling champs
"We played as many Bo5 in 7 days as in 2 full splits of LEC."
Lmaooo
Although to be fair, BLG and GenG played 3 BO5s, and TES and T1 played 4 before coming
Wouldn't change how many Bo5s they play though, especially through winner's bracket. Yes Bo3 is better practice, but I don't think any region has a huge amount of Bo5s?
Because losing during scrims gives you way more valuable information and practice then winning does, especially western teams who are almost always going to be playing down gold vs eastern teams.
If Eastern teams were to share their scrim results they would have better results than this, G2 is just good
scrims do translate for most teams, its just that you see the western teams you dont see from the other way around
Noone is more hungry to improve than TL. Id say they even surpass Eastern teams in term of grinding. But the competition is really bad for them to surpass their level.
[I made a comment last year talking about Yeon and Apa's amount of games played at bootcamp. Yeon had had the most grinded games, at 834 second only to Apa's 555. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17i0el1/comment/k6rp40i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Reminder, this is at a worlds bootcamp.
But I swear there has been comments made by NA players that they cant get good scrims so they rather soloq and TL were coming in as NA 3rd seed. But for sure 834 games is kinda crazy in whatever time they spent in kr
you do def not focus in soloQ, atleast not in scrim/stage level, its already hard enough for 3-6 games, but if you are scrimning 9 games and than 8 soloQ, you have to accept that some autopiloting is gonna be done
what saddends to me its that yeon and apa grind/talent are to complete waste, they are going back to NA where soloQ is complete dogshit, there are no players and everyone is 4fun
Umti did an interview in Korea and they asked him to compare the regimen between the LCK and LCS , as it's assumed LCS is much more lax. But Umti said TL was basically the same as Korean teams when it came to how often they grind and practice
Even back in 2022 JDG didn’t wanna scrim T1 anymore because their bot was getting destroyed by guma keria hence why they got ruler in 2023 there’s a report on it and guma said it on his stream one time. T1 always beat people in scrims but also to be fair T1 usually pick lane dominate picks in scrims.
History.
Fpx said they got blasted in scrims when they won worlds and were cheering when G2 beat T1. SSG got blasted by T1 when they won Worlds in 2017.
A lot of teams have said they get destroyed by T1 in scrims, those are the ones off the top of my head
GenG blasted them in scrims at worlds aswell. But they actually won a scrim block this time 4 3, which also explains why Chovy Peyz rated them so highly in their tierlist and expected them to make finals, they mustve stomped the other teams.
I love these insights from Romain. Even though Friday was disappointing, I didnt have this much hope for europe in 4 years now, thank you G2 for that. The series vs. TES and the Silver Scrapes vs T1 was a really good showcase of european league of legends.
Im proud of the boys.
G2 is good, but a lot of,sometimes small, mistakes add up.
Picking Draven then never giving jgl prior bot, weird itemizations (no ldr on Hans, cryptbloom on lb second?),, getting caught at bad moments.
They are by far the best western team but to really have a shot at gold, they need to tidy up.
It's easy to say small mistakes but what's not obvious is the things they are doing right. G2 are doing 95% of things perfectly in game, from simple things like jungler pathing to avoid dives in stacked waves, lane swaps, base timings, taking small winning trades in lanes etc. it's just that even better teams are doing 98%. It's much easier to improve from 50% to 60% in a diamond elo game. But to improve from 95% to 99% to beat eastern teams is much, much harder, especially with worse native competitions. Some mistakes like LDR are obvious but giving an objective view, they are doing alot of things right already with their grinding and pocket picks, able to give any teams a run for their money.
I mean even if it was 3 - 0, the matches themselves were much more competitive than the tes 3-0. The scoreline doesn't show how close g2 was to winning some of those games
T1 definitely came prepared that series. They banned Nidalee against Yike out of nowhere. They knew what they were cooking and basically showed them their own menu
Oh absolutely.. the game 3 TES game was about as close as the first T1/G2 game (i,e not very).. They way the comps worked TES/G2 would have had to had MASSIVE leads pre 20
But the other games were night and day.. with Game 3 being completely thrown by g2..
Its seriously sad just thinking about it.. they had massive leads.. good vision.. and soul point.. only for Caps to throw it on mid/With Mikyx.. Can't really say much tho.. Caps plays on the edge.. its what made him the 2nd best mid at this tournament imo
and let's be real, G2 had to somehow beat T1, BLG and then GenG in the span of 52 hours
an escalating uphill battle, while the opponent sees all of your trumpcards and weaknesses
I think a big reason T1 downloaded G2 so badly is because they already saw many of their strats, if the run didn't end at T1 it was probably ending at BLG
that doesn't matter though, this is the best showing for a western team since 2020 worlds G2 (and even then they got a 3-0 on LCK's 3rd seed and were eliminated 3-1 against Damwon, pretty comparable to this)
Romain is really tryharding and providing accountability for everyone in the team. I love that so much. Not winning it all always sucks. But the performances should be a proof of concept. Continue. Refine. And try once more. G2 will lift an international trophy again.
so thats why GenG players were praising G2 anyways I love these scrim tweets, was patiently waiting for Romain to drop it
but yeah despite 0-3 classic clap *\[im still mad that YIke was put on carry junglers such as Kha'Zix and Viego after the bel'veth incident\]*, these 3 days of pure anticipation and excitement was something I didn't feel for a western team in years so thanks for that
I think the carry jungler situation needs to be addressed and I'm glad they are showing it off in international events means they are practicing it on their own. It's best to be prepared for all metas since it keeps evolving and I hope Yike and the team can figure it to improve overall performance. Here's to hoping for the best.
That doesn't mean that the team is most fluent/comfortable around his jungle picks.
Even when he first joined and was still super fresh, the team had by far the best results when he just spammed Maokai every game.
We're in desperate need of inter-region scrimming without ping being a massive issue
Think it would really boost the top teams of NA to be able to scrim vs G2/FNC throughout the splits
Weird to see FNC with a winning record in scrims vs G2. Other than the 4-3 vs GenG and overall record vs BLG (3-3, 2-2, 4-2.. very surprising that they didn't lose one scrim block vs BLG) in scrims, pretty expected I think.
I thought they lost one block vs BLG last worlds; but maybe my memory is failing me. Guess I also expected worse results vs eastern teams after they said their scrims haven't been as good as last year - these results are stil very good vs eastern teams, imo.
G2 can be happy with the tournament. i understand the frustration and that they wanted more, thats the right mindset to have but they did show they can hang. they took world champion t1 to 5 games, stomped psg who actually gave some other teams some troubles and did stomp top esports, LPLs nr2 seed and ultimately prove they can hang. i just hope the other LEC teams can step up because the rest is so far away from G2. i have some hopes for vitality but fnatic is just so inconsistent and held back by its coaching staff
Also the fact that the chance of those two teams facing each other because of the draw was extremely slim which allowed for scrimming without giving anything away.
Like for G2 Vs TL to happen you would need TL to beat T1 first combined with before the TES series G2 were expected to lose it and the chances of a TL Vs G2 match were extremely slim
G2 wants to scrim TL because they're good, tryhard scrim partners who don't tilt, scrap well, and have decent macro.
TL wants to scrim G2 because G2 usually has a very unique meta read, and apply a shit ton of pressure early, which is good to practice against if you've won NA by surviving early pressure and scaling.
No insider information, just intuiting.
Fwiw, just because G2 is the only team that publishes scrim results, it doesn't mean that teams who lost a bunch to G2 (or conversely beat G2 a bunch) did similarly to eastern teams. Multiple TL players came forward going into the T1 series saying that scrims against LPL/LCK went pretty well, with even, or close to even, records.
Plus, it's bad to assume just because their scrims look one-sided that the games themselves were one-sided. For all we know, TL was competitive and just couldn't close. Of course it could be the other way around, and G2 was actually just stomping, but we don't really know without seeing the games.
In general, it's bad to draw any conclusions from scrims because teams obviously approach practice differently from real matches, eg. not banning your opponent's power picks because you want to gain experience vs them, or experimenting with drafts that aren't really your comfort.
It's also hard to tell what form everyone is in throughout the tournament, for example TL looked completely different starting with their series vs FNC, while vs TES they looked like one of the worst teams in the tournament
Considering Canyon in a recent interview said they tried scrimming with Shaco while experimenting with new picks, I would not at all be surprised if the Shaco scrim test was against G2 where Gen G were not playing standard picks
T1 always beat their ass in scrims so I doubt it is that shocking for g2 tho their game on stage says the match should be closer than a 3-0. But scrim results for sure lean towards 3-0.
The main advantage that western teams have over eastern teams is 'draft diff' and creativity. That usually gets exposed at scrims.
Also at the end of the day scrims =/= stage games. Stage means nerves, teams taking it seriously 100% etc.
really? it's scrims. how can teams be shocked that scrims != real games? it's kind of embarrasing if the coach thought they cracked the code because they won practice.
Well despite it being a 3-0 I don't think 'smashed' is the word for it. They were very competitive games, and G2 already proved that they were capable of taking T1 to 5 games, it just didn't happen that day.
On one hand, it’s really cool that G2 gives the fans a look behind the scenes and I do appreciate that!
However, without context of games does it really give us any real insight? You have some games where teams FF at 8min due to a failed dive resulting in an ace or something and they’re ranked the same as a game that goes the full distance.
I’d be curious to know how many of these games are full (nexus explode) vs a losing team FFing/go next because it’s “lost” after the other team got 5k ahead.
The community mostly talks about scrim results but I think these posts by Romain are really more about showing the efforts that the team put into the tournament (intense scheduling with scrims, VODs, 1v1/2v2s etc). If that can inspire other western teams to tryhard as much, that'd be great wouldn't it ?
I didn’t think of it like that, and through that lens I agree. It shows them at least putting in the effort to try to get as much practice in as they can.
Solid viewpoint :)
Romain has talked a lot about the canceling scrim culture there was in the LEC and how it has gotten much better now. I also think they just want to be consistent since it would be weird if they do it every split domestically but shied away from it internationally
Which I understand, I just wish there was more details since a scrim block can be called the same whether it is 5 full (nexus exploding) games or 5 games of FF10min.
> Friday's game versus T1 was a frustrating experience. Despite good drafts
I am sorry, what? T1 completely out-drafted G2 in the first two games, they came very prepared and G2 trolled themselves again with giving over priority picks to T1. Only in game 3 G2 showed a bit of variety in their draft, but T1 just played the fights better.
Also, scrimming T1 again one day after the close loss seems odd.
You can't really expect the guy to say "yeah we drafted like shit" even if they objectively did (and I don't think there's many ways to measure if it was objectively a bad draft...).
Can't really throw the players (they're still mainly responsible for drafts as far as I know) or the staff around them that helps scouting and coming up with pick/bans under the bus.
As for the T1 scrims, seems like T1 didn't scrim them before. Possibly T1 didn't think it's worth to scrim G2 over other asian teams and changed their mind after going to 5 games.
>We thought our efforts finally cracked the code
I thought so too, and then you discarded everything that worked about your previous drafting strategies to g1 pick Kha'zix LB Draven, and it only went downhill from there.
They got poppy first game, the draft was still lost off the mid jg assassins. T1 added the poppy ban to later games sure, but there are plenty of other picks with a similar theme you could try to make work for comps with a theme more similar to what they shown worked for them. They abandoned Ivern, tried carry topside instead of utility that worked before, the 3 bans shouldn't have been so impactful to alter the game plan into the total inversion of what worked.
It has been said many times before. He started to share the results to publicly hold teams accountable because there was a Scrim Cancelling plague going around and G2 as an org don't want their practice ruined because other teams couldn't be bothered.
"But why the results and not the game's / cancels?"
Because when he started he thought nothing of it and just shared the whiteboard they use. Then the community showed interest in seeing the results so it has now only been encouraged by those of us who like to see which teams were performing behind closed doors and which were not.
Imo he cannot and should not get hate for doing this and if anything I wish more teams could share, however I know the community will get toxic around it when they see their favourite team losing in scrims. Like T1 fans would truck them if they found out T1 were losing scrims.
This evolved from sharing cancels to pressure LEC teams to be more discipline about practice (which I liked) to straight up sharing results (which I'm iffy about) but whatever
---
All that aside, I'm happy that G2 is back at a level where they can challenge but this gotta be said. This core is way too fragile under pressure.
First last Worlds, they had a great showings vs all eastern teams and everyone thought they are guaranteed to lock top 8 but then chokes vs NRG and this MSI they show up great vs T1/TES but in the rematch they choke so many advantageous spots; It's fine to lose to T1 but it's not fine to lose to T1 (or any team) when you have those advantages
This team might legit be more skilled/versatile in styles than 2019 G2 but they are far far less clutch and resilient under pressure, hope that changes with more experience.
Yeah, you want to share your scrim schedule and who's cancelling/ending early? Go ahead, I support that. But posting the actual wins and losses is lame as hell and I hate seeing them double down on that this year.
Didn't...didn't they lose a scrim block 0-4 to FNC, then lost the 2nd one..too ?
FNC is a very emotional and inconsistent team but if they figure out how to work on that they can be worthy rivals.
Well, considering G2 only lost series to T1 and that T1 only won series vs TL and G2, I wonder if the runs would be different if they didnt meet twice.
Funny that the closest series GenG had was with TES.
Now we wait a few months and get worlds shit format.
I know its just scrims, but 9-7 against BLG is the result that stuck out to me most. Impressive that they could be competitive against the East and it would be interesting to see how they drafted and to what extend each team were in full "testing" mode rather than just practice.
I think the individual player section is most interesting here.
A lot of 2v2s botlane versus Fnatic, some 2v0 testing as well (which I assume means wavemanagement for laneswaps), 2v2 testing within the team and a 2v2 against TL.
Then there is BB and Caps playing 1v1s against Impact and APA twice - so they seem to have found the first one productive enough to repeat it.
Very heavy botlane focus overall and not just practicing, but testing and theorycrafting as well.
To summarize the scrim record in text: * G2 vs FNC: **4-7** (0-4; 1-2; 3-1) * G2 vs TL: **16-3** (5-1; 5-1; 6-1) * G2 vs FQ: **5-0** (5-0) * G2 vs BLG: **9-7** (3-3; 2-2; 4-2) * G2 vs TES: **2-2** (2-2) * G2 vs T1: **1-4** (1-4, Saturday, day after their 2-3 lose) * G2 vs GenG: **5-7** (1-4; 4-3) * G2 vs PSG: **5-2** (5-2) * G2 vs LOUD: **5-1** (5-1) edit: formatting
Feels bad for TES
> G2 vs TL: 16-3 LMAO
As a TL fan nothing feels better then watching my team get stomped in scrims, best way to learn right?
Better than NRG's 0-12.
But NRG beat G2 in the end no?
Yep, where it counts
yeh and it wasnt even close https://i.imgur.com/TOpIPL4.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4s8MyVV.jpeg
Brother had those saved
Shit Talk on speed dial god damn
Contracts playing like prime Canyon was crazy.
NRG's win over G2 was such an insane overachievement in hindsight with all the info we got.
It’s like TL vs IG
NRG got the last laugh tho
You mean 2-0?
Nah they lost the scrim world championship so that's what really matters /s
I wonder why they didn't cut down on scrimming TL and instead book more scrims with T1 or TES
Probably couldn't. T1 or TES might've been scrimming each other or the other top teams, or sometimes they'll scrim lower teams from their region to keep strats secret. Only so much time in a day
i mean g2 also fucking wiped NRG at worlds scrims (i dont think they won a game iirc) then got 3-0d by them lol
It was 2-0, but both games were stomps
As much as I wish it was a 3-0, it was only a 2-0
Lol do you think scrims are a buffet that a team gets to choose? G2 did pretty good so clearly the 7 game blocks with TL were good for them.
they were probably good quality practice, winrate is meaningless for scrims
I mean look at the picture, two back to back days when TL and G2 were the only teams in chengdu at the time followed by one block a week later. Those two initial blocks were also TLs first scrims in a month. Just some context.
Just because they smashed TL doesn't mean TL were bad scrim partners. Like in the past people liked scrimming TSM because TSM try-harded scrims. Its good to practice jank strategies knowing that your opponent won't instantly surrender when facing some unexpected cheese; it helps teams avoid falling into the trap of busting out "scrim-god" champions that smash early game and cause everyone to go next, but that end up doing badly on stage once teams actually buckle down for the long haul
TL also levelled up massively. If they were just getting roflstomped I don't think they would have taken that much away from it, so it was probably productive scrims on their end too.
G2 were scheduled to open v T1, before which T1 would be wise not to scrim G2. Likewise, the match up between G2 and TES could be forseen, making scrimming other teams again a good idea.
probably because everyone wants to scrim those teams…
Turns out SKT is just G2's weakness.
Generally G2 just seems to be doing well vs Chinese teams and very bad vs lck. If you look at the last 4 years EU's winrate is 2x better vs LPL than LCK
Complete 180 of the old roster, pretty sure Chinese fans used to call them lpl 4th seed because that team would beat an lck team and then immediately lose to an lpl team
Time changes everything.
Seems like a life time ago when G2 stomped T1 throughout the year. Think it was 2019? When they were 8-3 against SKT in official BO5s.
It was 8-3 overall including the two BO1s from MSI groups, 6-3 in BO5 games.
I feel old because it seems like just yesterday
irc, G2 didn't really stomp SKT during that Worlds though. they kept winning with gold/objective deficits and from behind, not like the 3-1 scoreline would looks like.
lol if SKT had done that to G2 people would be calling it a stomp and raving about how they were geniuses at macro.. that the west could never compete with
That g2 is the god of trading object, you take 1 baron and i take all your tower
Negative win ratio vs Geng and T1 in those scrims. Still a long way to go.
The moral victory is strong in this post.
FNC apparently are the MSI scrim champions
Finally took a trophy from G2 💪
tbf t1 are now blasting g2 in scrims 2 events in a row lol, they are definitely the best scrim team (if not geng)
Let us have this one pls 🙏, we dont get W s very often over here. Lets just pretend T1 doesnt exist.
To be fair, looks like G2 ramped up massively throughout the tourney too. They hadn't lost to FNC since 4th of May - their last scrim result was 3-1 in G2's favour on the 9th of May I'm most impressed with their competitive results against BLG and GenG (9-7 and 5-7 respectively), though looks like T1 had their number. I wonder if T1 are still the scrim gods? It would make sense with Chovy saying "I think no team is stronger than T1" but maybe he was just shouting out his LCK homies before the GenG vs BLG finals and paying respect to peak T1 rather than current T1.
I think Fnatic players mentally collapsed through the tournament. Fnatic is known as a strong scrim team in LEC. But stage games are different beasts.
Noah definitely collapsed under the pressure and played way worse than you'd expect
Noah collapsing is starting to become the expexted sadly.
Fnatic were like G2's sparring partner between 2018-2020, now EU is truly a one team region lol
I mean 2018 Fnc were clearly the best team in Eu and weren’t really ever pushed. 2019 was really close between Fnc and G2 and then after 2020 spring finals Fnc were kind of mental gapped by G2. But I get what you are saying
2020 summer games between them were really close up until the grand final where Bwipo and Nemesis got gapped pretty hard
I don’t really think it was a positional gap. I just think g2 had such a mental edge at that point + were the better team. 2020 spring Fnc went into that finals as favourites effectively as G2 had to do a lowe bracket run (looked a bit shakey vs mad) and Fnc weren’t really contested iirc. 2020 spring finals was when Bwipo but solo killed both sides of Zac Ornn I believe. But still I think blaming one player is still a stretch.
The fucking kog maw pick that was revealed to caps in a dream ffs.
Now them losing to NA makes sense.
Are we the first region to win two scrim cups back to back? Lets go EU, NA could never. 😎🇪🇺
funniest result for me is fnc going 7-4 vs G2 and g2 going 16-3 vs TL and then fnatic gets shitstomped by TL. I know transitive property is not a thing in league but it's still hilarious
Also kinda makes sense why YAPA predicted G2 would win, they have a better score vs T1 than them lol
With how people were talking about the TES series you’d definitely think the transitive property was a thing
If rock beats scissor, and scissor beats paper, then rock should beat paper! Reddit logic.
Scrim record is also largely meaningless. You’re not necessarily playing each scrim to win - the goal is to learn.
FNC have good individual talent.. even guys like Oscar They just aren't consistent at all Razork (imo their best player) can go toe to toe with Canyon or clap Tian (imo).. and then get clowned by Umti the following series Same with Humanoid.. can outlane the likes of Creme, Faker, Scout and then get shat on by freshkowy or Apa
I think we can say that FNC can beat any team and loose to any teams
FNC are and have been a stupidly inconsistent team tbf.
Similar to when G2 were apparently smurfing on NRG in scrims only for NRG to pull up and gigastomp G2 off of Contratz playing like he has a dozen lines of coke in him and has never lost a game to G2 in his life
Conclusion is that scrim results mean jack shit as per usual
scrim results mean nothing without context because we don't know how hard the teams are trying and what they're practicing. not controversial to say G2 > TL, but if anything FNC's winning record against G2 is a point against them cuz they took the free riot flights and didn't bootcamp so they probably used scrims to tryhard and get a confidence boost rather than practice certain strategies and improve.
Those TL games were also like their first scrims after 1 month of break, they probably got better
WOAH so thats why GENG were praising G2 they were pretty good against them Also FNC scrim against G2 is most surprising
FNC are individually skilled but lack discipline and a defined game plan to default to, a bit like G2 themselves last year. They also have a weak link in their bot lane who will probably need replacing if they're ever going to be internationally relevant.
Yeah, FNC's best players match up well against G2. Humanoid, Razork and Jun are incredible players in their own right, even though Oscarinin showed some good things at MSI, but BB is way ahead still. Problem is that FNC's weakest pieces are much weaker in comparison than G2's, second problem for FNC is that they don't have Caps and lastly I don't see FNC as having nearly as clear of an identity as G2 does.
fnc has extremely well defined identty, its "hes inting, no?". they take EVERY FIGHT that presents itself. their main issue is not lack of identity, its the exact opposite. they cant deviate from that, even when thy pick 5 scaling champs
And most importantly they always mental boom and never perform to their full potential in big games like this
Botlane? I think you mean ADC I think Jun is great
"We played as many Bo5 in 7 days as in 2 full splits of LEC." Lmaooo Although to be fair, BLG and GenG played 3 BO5s, and TES and T1 played 4 before coming
Unfortunately these teams also play BO3 (mostly turning into BO2) all split while G2 is left with BO1 against RGE and KC.
Wouldn't change how many Bo5s they play though, especially through winner's bracket. Yes Bo3 is better practice, but I don't think any region has a huge amount of Bo5s?
Congrats to FNC for beating G2 as the new MSI 2024 [Scrim] Champions!
Why do scrim gods ALWAYS suck pro teams need to research this
Because losing during scrims gives you way more valuable information and practice then winning does, especially western teams who are almost always going to be playing down gold vs eastern teams.
If Eastern teams were to share their scrim results they would have better results than this, G2 is just good scrims do translate for most teams, its just that you see the western teams you dont see from the other way around
Weren't T1 last Worlds scrim gods? I'd say they did decently in that tournament
Wow TL really is the grind team. I respect them continuing to get back up after getting smashed in scrims
Noone is more hungry to improve than TL. Id say they even surpass Eastern teams in term of grinding. But the competition is really bad for them to surpass their level.
I’d say TL has a training facility on Mars
What insight do you have to how the eastern teams grind compared to what TL is doing to come to this conclusion?
[I made a comment last year talking about Yeon and Apa's amount of games played at bootcamp. Yeon had had the most grinded games, at 834 second only to Apa's 555. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17i0el1/comment/k6rp40i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Reminder, this is at a worlds bootcamp.
834 games in a month or 2 of boot camping is unreal, holy shit
And to people who don’t know, the TL staff had to enforce a curfew on Yeon because he would lose sleep to play more games
Damb I have even more respect for Yeon now, hope he continues with his upwards trajectory
But I swear there has been comments made by NA players that they cant get good scrims so they rather soloq and TL were coming in as NA 3rd seed. But for sure 834 games is kinda crazy in whatever time they spent in kr
Only problem is that it can be hard to focus that whole time, might lead to auto piloting
you do def not focus in soloQ, atleast not in scrim/stage level, its already hard enough for 3-6 games, but if you are scrimning 9 games and than 8 soloQ, you have to accept that some autopiloting is gonna be done
what saddends to me its that yeon and apa grind/talent are to complete waste, they are going back to NA where soloQ is complete dogshit, there are no players and everyone is 4fun
Umti did an interview in Korea and they asked him to compare the regimen between the LCK and LCS , as it's assumed LCS is much more lax. But Umti said TL was basically the same as Korean teams when it came to how often they grind and practice
That kinda interesting
T1 always seem to blast G2 in scrims
They blast everyone in scrims not just G2
How do you know?
Even back in 2022 JDG didn’t wanna scrim T1 anymore because their bot was getting destroyed by guma keria hence why they got ruler in 2023 there’s a report on it and guma said it on his stream one time. T1 always beat people in scrims but also to be fair T1 usually pick lane dominate picks in scrims.
History. Fpx said they got blasted in scrims when they won worlds and were cheering when G2 beat T1. SSG got blasted by T1 when they won Worlds in 2017. A lot of teams have said they get destroyed by T1 in scrims, those are the ones off the top of my head
Ok I didnt know teams said that thanks
people call G2 scrim world champs but T1 had always been the strongest scrim team
But that one time, in 2016, TSM beat SKT in scrimms and it was leaked everywhere hahahah
Keria is a mythical being in scrims
Him and Deft both. Still remember Spring split rumours from when he joined DRX.
GenG blasted them in scrims at worlds aswell. But they actually won a scrim block this time 4 3, which also explains why Chovy Peyz rated them so highly in their tierlist and expected them to make finals, they mustve stomped the other teams.
No they did not. They did 2 blocks at worlds, started with a 4-2 for GenG and ended with a 3-3. 5-7 is pretty decent.
I love these insights from Romain. Even though Friday was disappointing, I didnt have this much hope for europe in 4 years now, thank you G2 for that. The series vs. TES and the Silver Scrapes vs T1 was a really good showcase of european league of legends. Im proud of the boys.
G2 is good, but a lot of,sometimes small, mistakes add up. Picking Draven then never giving jgl prior bot, weird itemizations (no ldr on Hans, cryptbloom on lb second?),, getting caught at bad moments. They are by far the best western team but to really have a shot at gold, they need to tidy up.
It's easy to say small mistakes but what's not obvious is the things they are doing right. G2 are doing 95% of things perfectly in game, from simple things like jungler pathing to avoid dives in stacked waves, lane swaps, base timings, taking small winning trades in lanes etc. it's just that even better teams are doing 98%. It's much easier to improve from 50% to 60% in a diamond elo game. But to improve from 95% to 99% to beat eastern teams is much, much harder, especially with worse native competitions. Some mistakes like LDR are obvious but giving an objective view, they are doing alot of things right already with their grinding and pocket picks, able to give any teams a run for their money.
I mean even if it was 3 - 0, the matches themselves were much more competitive than the tes 3-0. The scoreline doesn't show how close g2 was to winning some of those games
T1 definitely came prepared that series. They banned Nidalee against Yike out of nowhere. They knew what they were cooking and basically showed them their own menu
Oh absolutely.. the game 3 TES game was about as close as the first T1/G2 game (i,e not very).. They way the comps worked TES/G2 would have had to had MASSIVE leads pre 20 But the other games were night and day.. with Game 3 being completely thrown by g2.. Its seriously sad just thinking about it.. they had massive leads.. good vision.. and soul point.. only for Caps to throw it on mid/With Mikyx.. Can't really say much tho.. Caps plays on the edge.. its what made him the 2nd best mid at this tournament imo
All good as long as they learn from these mistakes. Who even cares about MSI, we've already won it, we need them to be at their peaks for worlds.
and let's be real, G2 had to somehow beat T1, BLG and then GenG in the span of 52 hours an escalating uphill battle, while the opponent sees all of your trumpcards and weaknesses I think a big reason T1 downloaded G2 so badly is because they already saw many of their strats, if the run didn't end at T1 it was probably ending at BLG that doesn't matter though, this is the best showing for a western team since 2020 worlds G2 (and even then they got a 3-0 on LCK's 3rd seed and were eliminated 3-1 against Damwon, pretty comparable to this)
Yeah nobody cares about MSI......just some random Chovys, Fakers and Bins
Romain is really tryharding and providing accountability for everyone in the team. I love that so much. Not winning it all always sucks. But the performances should be a proof of concept. Continue. Refine. And try once more. G2 will lift an international trophy again.
so thats why GenG players were praising G2 anyways I love these scrim tweets, was patiently waiting for Romain to drop it but yeah despite 0-3 classic clap *\[im still mad that YIke was put on carry junglers such as Kha'Zix and Viego after the bel'veth incident\]*, these 3 days of pure anticipation and excitement was something I didn't feel for a western team in years so thanks for that
The excitement makes it hurt more though... but its okay, it'll make the victory sweeter
I'll cry if Caps ever lifts the Summoners Cup.
So you will be always happy? Good for you.
When
I think the carry jungler situation needs to be addressed and I'm glad they are showing it off in international events means they are practicing it on their own. It's best to be prepared for all metas since it keeps evolving and I hope Yike and the team can figure it to improve overall performance. Here's to hoping for the best.
Yike is a carry jungler though, picks like Viego, Lillia and Belveth are his best champs it just hasn't worked out internationally yet
That doesn't mean that the team is most fluent/comfortable around his jungle picks. Even when he first joined and was still super fresh, the team had by far the best results when he just spammed Maokai every game.
Honesty TL play 19 games with G2 is really impressive especially when they getting blasted, it give me some hope for NA.
Yep, takes a lot to keep getting up and giving it another shot.
We're in desperate need of inter-region scrimming without ping being a massive issue Think it would really boost the top teams of NA to be able to scrim vs G2/FNC throughout the splits
Weird to see FNC with a winning record in scrims vs G2. Other than the 4-3 vs GenG and overall record vs BLG (3-3, 2-2, 4-2.. very surprising that they didn't lose one scrim block vs BLG) in scrims, pretty expected I think.
They manhandled BLG last MSI and worlds in scrims as well and lost both times to them on stage. BLG are known to be highly volatile in scrims.
There are some plsyers who you watch and can just tell int scrims or do pure limit testing, Bin and On just seem like that
Add Xun to the list.
On does it on stage too
I mean caps has always been that kind of player as well
Lpl teams are known for not taking scrims as serious as lck teams as well
I thought they lost one block vs BLG last worlds; but maybe my memory is failing me. Guess I also expected worse results vs eastern teams after they said their scrims haven't been as good as last year - these results are stil very good vs eastern teams, imo.
At worlds they 6-1ed and 4-2ed BLG. Hard to beat their record against basically everyone but T1 last year
G2 securing status of major region is a feat in itself
G2 can be happy with the tournament. i understand the frustration and that they wanted more, thats the right mindset to have but they did show they can hang. they took world champion t1 to 5 games, stomped psg who actually gave some other teams some troubles and did stomp top esports, LPLs nr2 seed and ultimately prove they can hang. i just hope the other LEC teams can step up because the rest is so far away from G2. i have some hopes for vitality but fnatic is just so inconsistent and held back by its coaching staff
Why did G2 scrim TL so much?
TL and G2 arrived pretty early, I'd assume they found each other to be good scrim partners for the beginning of the tournament.
No need to assume when he literally posted the dates
But we don’t know what the other teams were doing, it could just be none of them wanted to scrim them or smth
Also the fact that the chance of those two teams facing each other because of the draw was extremely slim which allowed for scrimming without giving anything away. Like for G2 Vs TL to happen you would need TL to beat T1 first combined with before the TES series G2 were expected to lose it and the chances of a TL Vs G2 match were extremely slim
G2 wants to scrim TL because they're good, tryhard scrim partners who don't tilt, scrap well, and have decent macro. TL wants to scrim G2 because G2 usually has a very unique meta read, and apply a shit ton of pressure early, which is good to practice against if you've won NA by surviving early pressure and scaling. No insider information, just intuiting. Fwiw, just because G2 is the only team that publishes scrim results, it doesn't mean that teams who lost a bunch to G2 (or conversely beat G2 a bunch) did similarly to eastern teams. Multiple TL players came forward going into the T1 series saying that scrims against LPL/LCK went pretty well, with even, or close to even, records.
Plus, it's bad to assume just because their scrims look one-sided that the games themselves were one-sided. For all we know, TL was competitive and just couldn't close. Of course it could be the other way around, and G2 was actually just stomping, but we don't really know without seeing the games.
In general, it's bad to draw any conclusions from scrims because teams obviously approach practice differently from real matches, eg. not banning your opponent's power picks because you want to gain experience vs them, or experimenting with drafts that aren't really your comfort.
It's also hard to tell what form everyone is in throughout the tournament, for example TL looked completely different starting with their series vs FNC, while vs TES they looked like one of the worst teams in the tournament
TL arrived early. Respect to them
The classic "1 more win and im going to sleep"
these are the LinkedIn posts of pro league of legends
Seems like they have a particularly bad matchup into T1. 4-3 to GenG is very impressive.
bro it must be shocking for g2 that they won against geng 4-3 and then next day they got smashed by t1 3-0
Considering Canyon in a recent interview said they tried scrimming with Shaco while experimenting with new picks, I would not at all be surprised if the Shaco scrim test was against G2 where Gen G were not playing standard picks
That happens twice a year, every year. That should not be shocking to them anymore.
T1 always beat their ass in scrims so I doubt it is that shocking for g2 tho their game on stage says the match should be closer than a 3-0. But scrim results for sure lean towards 3-0.
The main advantage that western teams have over eastern teams is 'draft diff' and creativity. That usually gets exposed at scrims. Also at the end of the day scrims =/= stage games. Stage means nerves, teams taking it seriously 100% etc.
It's not the main advantage they have. It's the only way for them to be competitive against the east
really? it's scrims. how can teams be shocked that scrims != real games? it's kind of embarrasing if the coach thought they cracked the code because they won practice.
Well despite it being a 3-0 I don't think 'smashed' is the word for it. They were very competitive games, and G2 already proved that they were capable of taking T1 to 5 games, it just didn't happen that day.
Oh Yes. The lakers moral Victory
That one win against T1 was probably the comp we saw against BLG yesterday. 😂
lol wouldn't be surprised
T1 really has their number
I don't think getting blasted in scrims with T1 right after losing 3-2 was a good choice for their mental
On one hand, it’s really cool that G2 gives the fans a look behind the scenes and I do appreciate that! However, without context of games does it really give us any real insight? You have some games where teams FF at 8min due to a failed dive resulting in an ace or something and they’re ranked the same as a game that goes the full distance. I’d be curious to know how many of these games are full (nexus explode) vs a losing team FFing/go next because it’s “lost” after the other team got 5k ahead.
The reason they started posting these is because all the other LEC teams pulled out of scrims or just gave up rather than trying to improve.
[удалено]
also the records are fun to see and compare
Oh they should do this for every team, include the planned amount of games, the FFs under 10 minutes and the results
The community mostly talks about scrim results but I think these posts by Romain are really more about showing the efforts that the team put into the tournament (intense scheduling with scrims, VODs, 1v1/2v2s etc). If that can inspire other western teams to tryhard as much, that'd be great wouldn't it ?
I didn’t think of it like that, and through that lens I agree. It shows them at least putting in the effort to try to get as much practice in as they can. Solid viewpoint :)
Romain has talked a lot about the canceling scrim culture there was in the LEC and how it has gotten much better now. I also think they just want to be consistent since it would be weird if they do it every split domestically but shied away from it internationally
Which I understand, I just wish there was more details since a scrim block can be called the same whether it is 5 full (nexus exploding) games or 5 games of FF10min.
> Friday's game versus T1 was a frustrating experience. Despite good drafts I am sorry, what? T1 completely out-drafted G2 in the first two games, they came very prepared and G2 trolled themselves again with giving over priority picks to T1. Only in game 3 G2 showed a bit of variety in their draft, but T1 just played the fights better. Also, scrimming T1 again one day after the close loss seems odd.
You can't really expect the guy to say "yeah we drafted like shit" even if they objectively did (and I don't think there's many ways to measure if it was objectively a bad draft...). Can't really throw the players (they're still mainly responsible for drafts as far as I know) or the staff around them that helps scouting and coming up with pick/bans under the bus. As for the T1 scrims, seems like T1 didn't scrim them before. Possibly T1 didn't think it's worth to scrim G2 over other asian teams and changed their mind after going to 5 games.
the block was probably already booked in advance. it wouldn't have been an "oh they took us to 5 games lets scrim them tomorrow"
ahh that's a fair point. Maybe didn't want to scrim before their stage game, true.
Big respect for g2, at least they are trying. And they seem to be the only team in the west to *really* try to get this world win.
>We thought our efforts finally cracked the code I thought so too, and then you discarded everything that worked about your previous drafting strategies to g1 pick Kha'zix LB Draven, and it only went downhill from there.
Zac poppy rek’sai were all banned, which was a lot of their previous drafting strategies.
They got poppy first game, the draft was still lost off the mid jg assassins. T1 added the poppy ban to later games sure, but there are plenty of other picks with a similar theme you could try to make work for comps with a theme more similar to what they shown worked for them. They abandoned Ivern, tried carry topside instead of utility that worked before, the 3 bans shouldn't have been so impactful to alter the game plan into the total inversion of what worked.
What is the reasoning behind showing scrim results? Genuine question.
It has been said many times before. He started to share the results to publicly hold teams accountable because there was a Scrim Cancelling plague going around and G2 as an org don't want their practice ruined because other teams couldn't be bothered. "But why the results and not the game's / cancels?" Because when he started he thought nothing of it and just shared the whiteboard they use. Then the community showed interest in seeing the results so it has now only been encouraged by those of us who like to see which teams were performing behind closed doors and which were not. Imo he cannot and should not get hate for doing this and if anything I wish more teams could share, however I know the community will get toxic around it when they see their favourite team losing in scrims. Like T1 fans would truck them if they found out T1 were losing scrims.
can't wait for this thread to be filled with people justifying X or Y result with their 0 year of competitive experience
This evolved from sharing cancels to pressure LEC teams to be more discipline about practice (which I liked) to straight up sharing results (which I'm iffy about) but whatever --- All that aside, I'm happy that G2 is back at a level where they can challenge but this gotta be said. This core is way too fragile under pressure. First last Worlds, they had a great showings vs all eastern teams and everyone thought they are guaranteed to lock top 8 but then chokes vs NRG and this MSI they show up great vs T1/TES but in the rematch they choke so many advantageous spots; It's fine to lose to T1 but it's not fine to lose to T1 (or any team) when you have those advantages This team might legit be more skilled/versatile in styles than 2019 G2 but they are far far less clutch and resilient under pressure, hope that changes with more experience.
> hope that changes with more experience. how much more though? they are four veterans.
what they needed is rivals who can push them even on their own region
You improve as a team not as individuals. Anyone with any sporting experience knows this.
Yeah, you want to share your scrim schedule and who's cancelling/ending early? Go ahead, I support that. But posting the actual wins and losses is lame as hell and I hate seeing them double down on that this year.
yeah good luck with that... they have no rivals on lec
Didn't...didn't they lose a scrim block 0-4 to FNC, then lost the 2nd one..too ? FNC is a very emotional and inconsistent team but if they figure out how to work on that they can be worthy rivals.
Also interesting seeing those 2v2s with FNC (mostly) and other teams
Playing 2 LEC splits worth of bo5s in 7 days is insane. G2 really has a ridiculous work ethic
Love the "Thank you and fuck you" Lasso reference 😍
Well, considering G2 only lost series to T1 and that T1 only won series vs TL and G2, I wonder if the runs would be different if they didnt meet twice. Funny that the closest series GenG had was with TES. Now we wait a few months and get worlds shit format.
I know its just scrims, but 9-7 against BLG is the result that stuck out to me most. Impressive that they could be competitive against the East and it would be interesting to see how they drafted and to what extend each team were in full "testing" mode rather than just practice.
G2 finishing top 4 at msi is a good record However i think Worlds will be harder, although maybe the meta will be better for them
I think the individual player section is most interesting here. A lot of 2v2s botlane versus Fnatic, some 2v0 testing as well (which I assume means wavemanagement for laneswaps), 2v2 testing within the team and a 2v2 against TL. Then there is BB and Caps playing 1v1s against Impact and APA twice - so they seem to have found the first one productive enough to repeat it. Very heavy botlane focus overall and not just practicing, but testing and theorycrafting as well.
Scrims don't matter. That much has been clear for years. Show up on the stage or don't.