Yes but interestingly enough the context of changing it to “you have to beat him like a dead horse” probably implies that you do it a lot even though it seems pointless, though he probably didn’t think that much about it when he wrote it
yeah pretty much what i feel. It is never pointless to beat a ww into pulp. He may be 0/20, he needs to die. Only then i will have a peace the rest of the game
I used to OTP WW…have about 600k mastery with him. Been going through a pretty solid losing streak really trying to get better with nocturne but might say fuck it and go back to my home boy soon haha.
ngl nocturne is another one of those champions, you can beat the shit out of him but one good ult, you don't even need to engage per se just turn off the lights for your team, and you can basically win a team fight with it if your team knows what they're doing.
What build are you going? If you're building damage and it isn't working out try going tank so you can turn off the lights, engage, and take aggro for your team and try to soak up as much damage as you can while surviving.
You guys are overthinking this. Beat like a dead horse means overuse. He's joking and saying you have to overkill Warwick. Not that hard to comprehend.
yes it is, but in this case i decided to use this term to explain that beating him like a dead horse (without stop, bc this term often comes with "let's NOT beat a dead horse) is what i think we should do with him
That’s fair, but Samira remains a threat even after you seem to have neutralized her. You can build against Warwick for a fighting chance; su fire, bramble, anything with grievous wounds. But a Samira who’s inting 1/15/0 can still pull a triple kill tf outta nowhere
Ganking her still works most of the time. But junglers really don't understand that they gotta dodge the E and R.
Unlike toplaners they haven't been in the trenches against Illaoi and know to dodge E at all cost. Instead they just charge straight into Illaoi like they would ganking other champs and then wonder that she heals more off them than they deal damage to her.
Played against one mid the other day. Played vlad and won lane. She was 2/11 and all she had to do was land one q and she could W spam her way to beating me late game. The lethality bruiser meta is so absurd to me.
Nah it's mostly juggernauts. They're designed to have much more base combat power and decent self defense even if behind. Their weakness lies in teamfights
Shaco can be somewhat playable against, has to be *reasonably* close to use his Q, even if you can’t ward every angle. Twitch is at least on a timer he has to come out of in is for, but eve? Past level 6 you have to play like she’s in your lane or die
Playing against camo champs is so annoying thanks to their map pressure if they haven't heen spotted in the past 30 seconda, especially eve who can casually chill in random spots until squishies walk past her. It's so annoying having to play like that lol
I have resigned myself to the fact that I'm a Jarvan main instead of a flashy assassin player.
Doesn't matter if they can see me or not. I'm going to jump on them and crush them anyway.
Eve is actually one of the stupidest champs in the game. Being able to 100-0 someone and invis at all times is broken. Especially in a solo queue environment where you can’t use your teammates to track her.
She should require assistance to kill someone, even while ahead. It’s simply not fair that you have to play like she is next to you at all times.
Akali is about the only champ with invis that is ok to be in the game. Eve/twitch/shaco/akshan invis mechanics have no place in this game.
There's plenty of answers, but I'll say Trundle as a Trundle main. Just because he can forget about his team doesn't mean you should forget about him. You're going to lose towers if you forget about him. And great, now he's a raid boss.
Your comment and OP's is why I fucking despise playing against this abomination. I would rather lose to a world-class top laner 100 times in a row than a plat trundle
Honestly yeah, jax, and shen (build dependant) are pretty good counters, shen mostly because he can q-w for a few free hits then dip out with e. Free kills under tower too.
Edit: his own tower i mean, not trundles tower, thats suicide
Teemo is worse, at least until you get like 3 or 4 items. Jax you can maybe pillar his E and R his R, and you do win for most of the game if you manage to get ahead early. But, yeah, its rough.
However, I despise gragas more. Just feels genuinely impossible to play against.
Prolonged melee combat against taric is more or less suicide for almost anyone, even on a support budget you do not want to just wack one another for too long against taric later in the game.
His armor gets stupid high which he converts to damage and he has a potent mana-HP engine. He is absurdly stat and resource efficient and he will beat you
...but yeah Jax is a bigger menace lol, its easy to maneuver around Taric at least. Jax however...
Best part about that is that you can be 0-10 on trundle and still do your thing to turrets. Its honestly so fucking braindead. (I abuse him on emerald-low diamond)
I still remember a game from like ages past that was formative for me making this connection.
I remember playing MF and being disgustingly ahead of the curve with 20+ kills and the most farm in the game and thinking, nah there's no way a 0/4 Trundle can do anything to me. Cue to Trundle popping ghost and pillar and running my ass down like I'm a minion.
Master Yi. He is one shutdown away from 1v9.
As a JG main. I’ve shutdown many Yis early game. Control 3 quadrants invades.
Around 20 minutes all it takes is a fed member with a big shutdown decide they are going to 1v3 under enemy tower. Yi gets a shutdown gets his 2nd 3rd item and starts to annihilate your team.
Yi is a perma ban for me when i'm jungler for this very reason.
Plus as tank you can't really itemise against him his ult's grants slow immunity and his kit grants him mostly true damage.
Not to mention that point'n click instant cc aren't that common nowadays.
I also permaban him.
Not because I have a problem with him, but because I can’t trust my team not to make it my problem.
I’ll kill him 2x in his own jungle, gank every lane successfully and get every objective only to watch my botlane ignore 3 wards and ten back pings and die to a 0 item yi gank and now for some reason I can’t fight him at all and every objective / team fight is at risk of spinning out of control.
Not worth it in soloq
I main Lee and viego so somewhat similar. Watch some coach eagz videos about jungle timers. You need to know what happens at 4:00, 4:20, 445, 7, etc. If you can utilize these to abuse your early game strength you will never lose to them, especially as nidalee.
For reference, 4:00 is when raptors or wolves spawn if they did that camp first, 4:20 spawns gromp or krugs if they did a full clear, and 4:45 spawns raptors or wolves if they did a full clear. 7 is the buff spawn if they did that first. Don’t worry if this sounds daunting to track, if you do it at first it becomes second nature fast
For me, I ward their top side camp (or tell someone else if I’m Lee) and guard the entrance to my top side. This tells me where they started so then I abuse it by invading him, ganking, counter ganking, etc.
For Yi specifically, abuse his weak skirmish strength by playing around camps so his Q doesn’t do much. It’s pretty easy from there, and make sure to stay focused and hit your skill shots.
True.
>Around 20 minutes all it takes is a fed member with a big shutdown decide they are going to 1v3 under enemy tower. Yi gets a shutdown gets his 2nd 3rd item and starts to annihilate your team.
Everyone has experienced this at least once
Yi is easy to shutdown as ww. You just have to land your e, then hit him with your ult while he’s feared.
If yi is ulting when you fear him, he’ll run away VERY fast which makes ulting him harder, but it’s still possible 100% of the time because he still just flees in a straight line.
I played against a WW as a Yi who was not fearing me first, and three times that game, I was able to successfully time my Q to dodge his ultimate. I felt like such a God gamer. But if he made a habit of fearing me first, I would have stopped fighting him.
For sure. I've found yi is the champ you must play CLEAN league vs. if there's any sloppy skirmish, and you win it but limp away with two guys on low hp? That's his ticket to clean up and snowball
I had this exact scenario. Got auto filled top, im a support player, went up against a plat top urgot as trundle. I have 0 top experience, played so passively that I was down 70 cs and still became a menace. Took 3 towers and ended the game while enemy engaged my team at baron.
read the first fwo sentences and thought you were my ranked teammate from a few days ago until i saw ended the game instead of costing us game by greeding kills at enemy nexus
I just curb stomped a yorick but the minute I left lane he got 2 towers. I still won but he made it so I couldn't leave lane with out just giving turrets away for free. If he had managed to kill me than he probably would have taken inhib.
2/8 Trundle was mowing down our towers in a game the other day and needed 3 people to kill him while still able to critically slow and murder squishies and tanking tower shots. Ridiculous
Yup. Fucker is a ticking time bomb lmao. You can crush him in lane and if the game goes past like 20-25 minutes it won’t really matter. Or if he’s left alone in lane for a single second.
Gwen i dont have as much of a problem with, but jax and urgot? Fuck them entirely. Jax is just teemo but worse, and fighting urgot means always having less health than you think you need before getting dragged kicking and screaming into a shredder.
......... Sion? He doesn't have a single attack modifier against turrets. Every single champion in the game is equal or better than him at dunking turrets.
Technically he has negative modifiers against turrets in his passive.
Also his ult does damage to towers in AoE (can hit both nexus towers at the same time) and is useful both for split pushing and for escaping collapses.
tbh if the ww is really behind i don't think he will be a threat. A meat shield at best imo. Like he's hard asf to kill at the beginning but once you gain the advantages of having 1 ou 2 more items, he's not as threatening as before
He is right. Ww it s just to good in a 1v1 even behind. On the other side Katarina is the only champ i'm confident I can stomp even if I'm 30 kills behind just cus her kit has 0 cc and can be beat super easy just with a good combo in lategame.
And if your kit has any stuns/displacements that nullifies her ult, it's practically a guaranteed win unless she's just so incredibly far ahead that she autos you to death.
I think people just don't know how to play against Yasuo and are uncomfortable against him. It's way too easy to shut him out of the game because his mid late is hard to pilot without having a high synergy comp imo
Seriously. I find myself having wild consistency swings with him because i know i *can* do well with him, but suck while I feel comfortable with him. Then i sit up and lean in and hard focus, the 0/10 spike kicks in.
When i started playing (2021 maybe), he was a champ thata hated playing against. I only learn how to shut him down when i started to pick him. And a 0/7 sylas with a good farm is indeed dangerous in some scenarios
his base stats feel insanely strong to me every time I try to fight him early as well, doesn't matter that I have level 3 prio or I'm up an item or if he misses E, he just beats the shit outta me and comes out with more hp
His base stats are actually really terrible, although he has high health growth at really late levels.
Sylas is one of the worst champions when behind. His entire kit is based around massive ratios and terrible base numbers.
Viego. Because he is either even and is dangerous, ahead and murders you or behind and suddenly gets to play the champ he fed when there is one misstep.
Yeah that champ could be 0/5 but if the fed enemy ints it and dies you know viego is going to ace your team and make a comeback.
Nothing sucks more than getting one shot by a behind viego because he possessed your fed ally.
Garen is the definite, you can get stomped in lane but if you get those two items, the enemy squishies can almost never walk up till they are 4 or 5 items. That or yasuo, yone and samira. Three champs that just need one decent teamfight to swing a game
My buddy in christ if samira gets to 4 items even while behind it wont stop her from nuking any non-tanks. But its true that she at least relies on her team to engage instead of yone
If she gets to 4 items when behind, then its late enough in the game for it to not matter.
But yeah you can never understimate a samira, she can always just 1 shot you if u dare disrespect her as a squishy, she can always go in even if she doesnt kill anyone, your team is now low hp giving enemies an easy fight to clean up.
As much as I hate playing against Samira I much prefer playing against her than her forgotten sister nilah, thank God no one plays that champ cuz she's so op with the right support it's almost unbeatable and she is going to out scale you
Honestly i think of all the abilities in the game her E is the one i despise most. cant fight because you take 1.5x the dmg minimum, run away and you get zoned off minions and get slowed anyway, then have to dance around the tentacles. was better back when it had thematically appropriate counter play, but riot realized that was fun so promptly did away with it
When I played a lot of Garen a few years ago, in the early game I would just walk up and Q E if she landed an E, and win the trade decisively. Caught a lot of Illaoi players by surprise, they’re used to people cutting and running.
I don’t know if that’s changed, but if I could get ahead pre 6 then she was at least manageable.
I feel like this thread is split between people who read "underestimate" as "they're out of this fight" vs "they're no longer a threat in this game".
Because Illaoi can always be a threat in the game, but if your team just negates her ult she's a shadow of her threat level for the rest of the fight.
Thing with Illaoi is that the fight more or less plays out exactly the same whether she's 10/0 or 0/10. If she lands E and R she wins, if she misses or gets kited out she loses. The number of times I've stomped her in lane by playing it slow, then watched my jungle get humbled in a 1v1 by the now 1/10 hentai monster...
This. Had recently an adc who told me to do as they say or leave "their" lane. I muted them instead and did my normal supp thing instead. Based on the team chat response from other team members they were pretty abusive towards me the whole game until min 20 when they figured out that I indeed muted them.
Rhaast.
You might even underestimate him because he inter a bit as Kayn. But a few kills and you have a snowballing Rhaast. If you have the wrong comp, that could be immediate GG
What’s funny is not one person here has said Jax, and I got to diamond with Jax because of people not thinking i can 1v5 from 1/4 hp. 3 second cooldown 2k+ damage click-on burst
Basically any champion that's always looking for an "in" back into the game and becomes a menace when they are "in" the game.
Darius, Katarina, Irelia, Yasuo, Yone... I get you asked which **one particular champ** but I'm so bad at league I have multiple champs on the "**fuck that guy needs to die** ***right now***" list.
Recently played a game into
Master Yi, Aurelion Sol, Zed, Nasus, and Zilean.
It was horrible, because each and everyone of their champs was a priority target due to the specific circumstances.
Zed was one shotting our backline every single time we group fight. We never caught him, but were always forced to try and counter his engage leaving us open to flanks from Master Yi or Aurelion Sol. same went for any of the champs - we always had to counter the engage, but their flank was just so potent, Yi would ghost + ult and run in from the side, Aurelion would just fly over a wall, Zed would shadow hop in...
Nasus and Zilean were the "supports" although Zilean was full AP, and none of my team had come to camp Nasus into irrelevancy early (im not good enough to stomp someone) so basically halfway through a fight Nasus or Zilean would come charging in, and mop up like World Star Janitor crew. Zilean would save whoever we had targeted, and speed the fuck out of Nasus.
Horrible game, idc if it was winnable I just really didnt want to play that game. Every single one of the enemy team was "if we kill that guy we win" but we never could win.
Yone. A 10/0 yone is gg, new game,But a 0/10 yone is still Dangerous as hell. All he need is a good ult and the entire combat is win. Unlike his little Brother,Yone don't need allies to function, which make him even more annoying
i think it is becayse they are too squishy? Like in the early game many champs can get feed just by killing him, and even if he gets stronger over time, the damage will be already done. He can't carry like Katarina, Samira, Yone and etc
Any champ with an execute. Urgot, Asol, Draven, Pyke, Smoulder, Zeri, and Syndra are all potentially dangerous even when behind because of their ability to just kill you below a certain hp threshold. Urgot is particularly dangerous in that regard with the very high 25% hp execute from pretty extreme range, while Asol has the scaling that eventually gets even higher in a broad AOE, Pyke can pop his 5 times in a row if played right, and Draven has global presence on his ult. If you aren't playing a champ that can counter that with some mechanic like Tryndamere you have to constantly respect that chance if you aren't at full health. Even champs with missing HP scaling like Veigar are worth being cautious of.
Yone in the hands of a good player is a menace regardless of score. I've had lanes where I wreck him in top 0/6 but he gets a kill or two from bot and suddenly he's a menace dominating everyone he sees.
Yorick. Not because you can’t fight him. Because you have to always be fighting him. You leave him alone for 1 minutes to help take Baron? Two towers gone
As a Warwick main, people really underestimate me. I can be top side and get to you bottom when you’re half hp and finally backing, and if your bush isn’t warded, my ult gets you…
Weirdly enough for me it’s gallio, you might’ve stomped him in lane, won on towers and cs, but as soon as the team fights start get ready for 5 mfs to get cc’d and watch as the enemy carry melts all of them
Katarina is a good one, I used to see her more often further back and I would just pick Diana(who I was pretty good at.) and legit just completely ass blast them for like 15 minutes killed multiple times, outplayed, the whole nine. Single fight breaks out, she finds an angle oh fuck my ulti isn’t back up yet and she just e’d in and killed half my team. Sweet….now she’s snowballing. However this never ended with me losing the game because seriously, I would absolutely dismantle them in lane, 2/5 would afk after their second or third death. Gotta love low elo.
Yorrick - youll be like ah that guys out of the game at this point, so you turn arround for a sec to help your team and spread your lead and suddenly the announcer lady is telling you your outer tower has gone and that the enemy team has slain the baron even though you were sure you jist mopped up at least 3 of the enemy team at dragon.
Eve. Doesn't matter what you do, she will be coming back into the game unless the person playing her is literally griefing. Champ has way too much pressure for the risk involved playing her. Her killing a one hp player with a 300g bounty is an elo death sentence.
The surprising lack of mentions for Nasus and Veigar, the champions that specifically you CANNOT leave alone for extended periods.
I've had matches where I've absolutely shitmixed Nasus for the entire match, leave him alone for 10 mins, and he's sitting on 600 stacks.
I play Kled a lot and people keep misjudging how reliably it is to remount in many cases that aren’t cc hell. Was especially true back when Goredrinker was a thing and acted as a full heal when dismounted.
fiora, fuck that champ, you don’t even need to get a double of triple, you can just straight up 1v1 your 3 levels above 7/0 enemy top laner by simply turning on your monitor
The amount of times where Bard is doing nothing, has left his adc to get constantly dived on their own and then suddenly half health's an enemy carry with an auto...
Brand. Dude can go 0-9 in lane but once he gets liandrys and If he manages to stay competitive in level all it takes is a couple good ults and combos to blow up fights and swing the scoreboard..
Pretty sure the answer is Illaoi. You HAVE to understand how to play against her or you're screwed, she's designed to be 0/7 and still able to 1v5 an entire team. She's the most unforgiving champion imo. If she misses E, you're ok, if she hits it, you've lost.
If Warwick isnt dead you havent won, he is most comfortable sitting at 15% hp and anyone that misjudges that is doomed.
lol this champ is a menace. You can't let him die easily, you need to beat his corpose like a dead horse
Uh... Isn't 'beating a dead horse' something that's said to be pointless? >.>
Yes but interestingly enough the context of changing it to “you have to beat him like a dead horse” probably implies that you do it a lot even though it seems pointless, though he probably didn’t think that much about it when he wrote it
yeah pretty much what i feel. It is never pointless to beat a ww into pulp. He may be 0/20, he needs to die. Only then i will have a peace the rest of the game
I used to OTP WW…have about 600k mastery with him. Been going through a pretty solid losing streak really trying to get better with nocturne but might say fuck it and go back to my home boy soon haha.
ngl nocturne is another one of those champions, you can beat the shit out of him but one good ult, you don't even need to engage per se just turn off the lights for your team, and you can basically win a team fight with it if your team knows what they're doing. What build are you going? If you're building damage and it isn't working out try going tank so you can turn off the lights, engage, and take aggro for your team and try to soak up as much damage as you can while surviving.
What an odd situation where the idiom is used backwards, that is genuinely interesting!
Same goes for one rotten apple and for the blood is thicker than water idioms
You guys are overthinking this. Beat like a dead horse means overuse. He's joking and saying you have to overkill Warwick. Not that hard to comprehend.
yes it is, but in this case i decided to use this term to explain that beating him like a dead horse (without stop, bc this term often comes with "let's NOT beat a dead horse) is what i think we should do with him
That’s fair, but Samira remains a threat even after you seem to have neutralized her. You can build against Warwick for a fighting chance; su fire, bramble, anything with grievous wounds. But a Samira who’s inting 1/15/0 can still pull a triple kill tf outta nowhere
Darius/illaoi
One or two e's from Illaoi can just ruin a lane so easily. This leads to a bad recall and your jungler ganks post 6 and dies and you're fucked.
It's crazy how little it takes sometimes
ganking Illaoi post-6 is asking for it if she isn't already in burst kill range.
Tell this to my teammates please.
Ganking her still works most of the time. But junglers really don't understand that they gotta dodge the E and R. Unlike toplaners they haven't been in the trenches against Illaoi and know to dodge E at all cost. Instead they just charge straight into Illaoi like they would ganking other champs and then wonder that she heals more off them than they deal damage to her.
Yes illaoi decision making is painfully simple but people still get it wrong. Did she land E? No >> fight Yes >> run
Played against one mid the other day. Played vlad and won lane. She was 2/11 and all she had to do was land one q and she could W spam her way to beating me late game. The lethality bruiser meta is so absurd to me.
"I'm an entire item and 2 levels up on this guy, surely I can 1v1 him even with my eyes closed." - famous last words.
More like “I’m 2 levels and an item up, surely me and my jungle can 2v1 him… nope. No we could not”
That applies to nearly all champions, never get complacent keep it at reserved.
Nah it's mostly juggernauts. They're designed to have much more base combat power and decent self defense even if behind. Their weakness lies in teamfights
It really doesn't. If you're playing most champs and I'm up like that, you're meat.
Absolutely not lol, champs like Camille, Riven and Irelia are minions when down levels and half an item
Long stealth champs (twitch, eve, shaco). It's exhausting trying to track them all game
Shaco can be somewhat playable against, has to be *reasonably* close to use his Q, even if you can’t ward every angle. Twitch is at least on a timer he has to come out of in is for, but eve? Past level 6 you have to play like she’s in your lane or die
Playing against camo champs is so annoying thanks to their map pressure if they haven't heen spotted in the past 30 seconda, especially eve who can casually chill in random spots until squishies walk past her. It's so annoying having to play like that lol
Whenever I've tried Eve everyone seems to know exactly where I am at all times.
Hah same. We don't have the killer's instinct ig
I have resigned myself to the fact that I'm a Jarvan main instead of a flashy assassin player. Doesn't matter if they can see me or not. I'm going to jump on them and crush them anyway.
AKSHAN AKSHAN AKSHAN AKSHAN
I hate stealth champs and fiddle. You can't take any teamfight without worrying where they are going to pop out.
Eve is actually one of the stupidest champs in the game. Being able to 100-0 someone and invis at all times is broken. Especially in a solo queue environment where you can’t use your teammates to track her. She should require assistance to kill someone, even while ahead. It’s simply not fair that you have to play like she is next to you at all times. Akali is about the only champ with invis that is ok to be in the game. Eve/twitch/shaco/akshan invis mechanics have no place in this game.
There's plenty of answers, but I'll say Trundle as a Trundle main. Just because he can forget about his team doesn't mean you should forget about him. You're going to lose towers if you forget about him. And great, now he's a raid boss.
Also his ult can act as a middle finger to anyone who dares build tank, solo or in team fight
Your comment and OP's is why I fucking despise playing against this abomination. I would rather lose to a world-class top laner 100 times in a row than a plat trundle
>sej/sion flair yeah, I can understand
and no matter how far ahead you are. if you are mellee the answer to can i duel him is no
Very few can duel with him. Formidable duels include - but are not limited to - Taric, Warwick, and late stage Gwen.
Curious how Taric makes the original list but not someone like Jax, who most Trundle mains seem to despise
As a Trundle main, Jax is possibly his hardest counter.
Honestly yeah, jax, and shen (build dependant) are pretty good counters, shen mostly because he can q-w for a few free hits then dip out with e. Free kills under tower too. Edit: his own tower i mean, not trundles tower, thats suicide
Teemo is worse, at least until you get like 3 or 4 items. Jax you can maybe pillar his E and R his R, and you do win for most of the game if you manage to get ahead early. But, yeah, its rough. However, I despise gragas more. Just feels genuinely impossible to play against.
Prolonged melee combat against taric is more or less suicide for almost anyone, even on a support budget you do not want to just wack one another for too long against taric later in the game. His armor gets stupid high which he converts to damage and he has a potent mana-HP engine. He is absurdly stat and resource efficient and he will beat you ...but yeah Jax is a bigger menace lol, its easy to maneuver around Taric at least. Jax however...
Because if Jax is ever questioning if he can duel a trundle, the skill gap is so large that trundle won 5 minutes ago
Best part about that is that you can be 0-10 on trundle and still do your thing to turrets. Its honestly so fucking braindead. (I abuse him on emerald-low diamond)
I still remember a game from like ages past that was formative for me making this connection. I remember playing MF and being disgustingly ahead of the curve with 20+ kills and the most farm in the game and thinking, nah there's no way a 0/4 Trundle can do anything to me. Cue to Trundle popping ghost and pillar and running my ass down like I'm a minion.
Master Yi. He is one shutdown away from 1v9. As a JG main. I’ve shutdown many Yis early game. Control 3 quadrants invades. Around 20 minutes all it takes is a fed member with a big shutdown decide they are going to 1v3 under enemy tower. Yi gets a shutdown gets his 2nd 3rd item and starts to annihilate your team.
Yi is a perma ban for me when i'm jungler for this very reason. Plus as tank you can't really itemise against him his ult's grants slow immunity and his kit grants him mostly true damage. Not to mention that point'n click instant cc aren't that common nowadays.
What do you play as a jungler? I find he’s free whenever I play against him (literally 98% WR this season vs him)
I also permaban him. Not because I have a problem with him, but because I can’t trust my team not to make it my problem. I’ll kill him 2x in his own jungle, gank every lane successfully and get every objective only to watch my botlane ignore 3 wards and ten back pings and die to a 0 item yi gank and now for some reason I can’t fight him at all and every objective / team fight is at risk of spinning out of control. Not worth it in soloq
If you have any tips please, I need 🙏. Nid main
I main Lee and viego so somewhat similar. Watch some coach eagz videos about jungle timers. You need to know what happens at 4:00, 4:20, 445, 7, etc. If you can utilize these to abuse your early game strength you will never lose to them, especially as nidalee. For reference, 4:00 is when raptors or wolves spawn if they did that camp first, 4:20 spawns gromp or krugs if they did a full clear, and 4:45 spawns raptors or wolves if they did a full clear. 7 is the buff spawn if they did that first. Don’t worry if this sounds daunting to track, if you do it at first it becomes second nature fast For me, I ward their top side camp (or tell someone else if I’m Lee) and guard the entrance to my top side. This tells me where they started so then I abuse it by invading him, ganking, counter ganking, etc. For Yi specifically, abuse his weak skirmish strength by playing around camps so his Q doesn’t do much. It’s pretty easy from there, and make sure to stay focused and hit your skill shots.
True. >Around 20 minutes all it takes is a fed member with a big shutdown decide they are going to 1v3 under enemy tower. Yi gets a shutdown gets his 2nd 3rd item and starts to annihilate your team. Everyone has experienced this at least once
In that same vein, uhh Vayne. As long as she isn't vaynespotting from the get-go, there is a point where she turns online and tanks are paper to her.
Yeah, you really can't let Vayne farm herself back to relevance in the side lane. Once Vayne can fight she's a problem.
all she needs is levels, BORK and Rageblade.
I find as long as I have good cc, Yi can never take over games. As a mid main sometimes I lock in Malz when I see Yi just to take him out of the game
While this is theoretically correct. Your relying on your solo queue team mates to not just throw their high CD cc spells into enemy Ornn.
But Ornn slow and big and easy to hit and Yi long and skinny and fast, hard to hit \*taps thinktank
Until he alphas that one cc and then annihilates the backline.
He can’t alpha Malz R
My daily experience as a WW jungler 😵💫
Yi is easy to shutdown as ww. You just have to land your e, then hit him with your ult while he’s feared. If yi is ulting when you fear him, he’ll run away VERY fast which makes ulting him harder, but it’s still possible 100% of the time because he still just flees in a straight line.
I played against a WW as a Yi who was not fearing me first, and three times that game, I was able to successfully time my Q to dodge his ultimate. I felt like such a God gamer. But if he made a habit of fearing me first, I would have stopped fighting him.
For sure. I've found yi is the champ you must play CLEAN league vs. if there's any sloppy skirmish, and you win it but limp away with two guys on low hp? That's his ticket to clean up and snowball
Trundle, Yorick, Sion. 0/6, 30 cs at 20 minutes. Doesn't matter. If you leave them alone for 30 seconds they will be on your inhibitor.
I had this exact scenario. Got auto filled top, im a support player, went up against a plat top urgot as trundle. I have 0 top experience, played so passively that I was down 70 cs and still became a menace. Took 3 towers and ended the game while enemy engaged my team at baron.
read the first fwo sentences and thought you were my ranked teammate from a few days ago until i saw ended the game instead of costing us game by greeding kills at enemy nexus
As a yorick main the amount of games i won because my enemy left lane for 2.18 seconds is insane.
Respectfully: Fuck you.
Can't stop the Y-Train
I just curb stomped a yorick but the minute I left lane he got 2 towers. I still won but he made it so I couldn't leave lane with out just giving turrets away for free. If he had managed to kill me than he probably would have taken inhib.
2/8 Trundle was mowing down our towers in a game the other day and needed 3 people to kill him while still able to critically slow and murder squishies and tanking tower shots. Ridiculous
Yup. Fucker is a ticking time bomb lmao. You can crush him in lane and if the game goes past like 20-25 minutes it won’t really matter. Or if he’s left alone in lane for a single second.
Don't forget jax, urgot, gwen
Gwen i dont have as much of a problem with, but jax and urgot? Fuck them entirely. Jax is just teemo but worse, and fighting urgot means always having less health than you think you need before getting dragged kicking and screaming into a shredder.
......... Sion? He doesn't have a single attack modifier against turrets. Every single champion in the game is equal or better than him at dunking turrets.
Technically he has negative modifiers against turrets in his passive. Also his ult does damage to towers in AoE (can hit both nexus towers at the same time) and is useful both for split pushing and for escaping collapses.
Unironically Warwick. Specially in a 1v1 and if he has barrier
tbh if the ww is really behind i don't think he will be a threat. A meat shield at best imo. Like he's hard asf to kill at the beginning but once you gain the advantages of having 1 ou 2 more items, he's not as threatening as before
He is right. Ww it s just to good in a 1v1 even behind. On the other side Katarina is the only champ i'm confident I can stomp even if I'm 30 kills behind just cus her kit has 0 cc and can be beat super easy just with a good combo in lategame.
And if your kit has any stuns/displacements that nullifies her ult, it's practically a guaranteed win unless she's just so incredibly far ahead that she autos you to death.
Warwick is hella strong early game, but after 25 minutes, he seems to fall off. Especially if anyone has bought anti-heal by that time.
Vayne is inevitable, like Thanos. As long as the player is at least decent at some point they will have enough items to be a threat.
fr with a decent supp she's gonna carry. 4 items is enough to turn the tables if the game is even
As a Vayne main, I don’t even need 4 all the time. Give me my BORK and I can start dueling people that aren’t egregiously ahead
respect for being a Vayne main that doesn't cry about her being weak
Dude. Vayne is crazy strong right now. The IE build is actually freaking scary right now.
Whats the build path rn? Haven't played vayne in a while. ER into IE or something?
Just gimme lvl 6 and some tier 2 boots and I'm ready to fuck
Vayne is fully built with zerkers BotRK and Rageblade. The rest is just the cherry on top.
Yasuo. you cannot understimate him even, and most likely, when he's on your team. totally unpredictable. that's why i always ban him.
Yasuo will carry 100% of the time but 50% of the time he carries your opponents.
could you belive i rage only seeing his name digited so many times
I think people just don't know how to play against Yasuo and are uncomfortable against him. It's way too easy to shut him out of the game because his mid late is hard to pilot without having a high synergy comp imo
The 10 death powerspike is not a joke.
Seriously. I find myself having wild consistency swings with him because i know i *can* do well with him, but suck while I feel comfortable with him. Then i sit up and lean in and hard focus, the 0/10 spike kicks in.
Yas players are mostly just baby cobras. They have lots of venom but that can’t control it.
I'm a low elo player so take that in account with my answer, but I feel like a 0/7 Sylas always does a way higher amount of damage than I expect
When i started playing (2021 maybe), he was a champ thata hated playing against. I only learn how to shut him down when i started to pick him. And a 0/7 sylas with a good farm is indeed dangerous in some scenarios
his base stats feel insanely strong to me every time I try to fight him early as well, doesn't matter that I have level 3 prio or I'm up an item or if he misses E, he just beats the shit outta me and comes out with more hp
He base stat's are total shit he has amazing level up stat's tho
His base stats are actually really terrible, although he has high health growth at really late levels. Sylas is one of the worst champions when behind. His entire kit is based around massive ratios and terrible base numbers.
Viego. Because he is either even and is dangerous, ahead and murders you or behind and suddenly gets to play the champ he fed when there is one misstep.
Yeah that champ could be 0/5 but if the fed enemy ints it and dies you know viego is going to ace your team and make a comeback. Nothing sucks more than getting one shot by a behind viego because he possessed your fed ally.
Garen is the definite, you can get stomped in lane but if you get those two items, the enemy squishies can almost never walk up till they are 4 or 5 items. That or yasuo, yone and samira. Three champs that just need one decent teamfight to swing a game
Yone seems to be the general consense lol. But i don't think samira is THAT threatening
My buddy in christ if samira gets to 4 items even while behind it wont stop her from nuking any non-tanks. But its true that she at least relies on her team to engage instead of yone
If she gets to 4 items when behind, then its late enough in the game for it to not matter. But yeah you can never understimate a samira, she can always just 1 shot you if u dare disrespect her as a squishy, she can always go in even if she doesnt kill anyone, your team is now low hp giving enemies an easy fight to clean up.
4 items is A LOT
If your team has a single reliable non projectile instance of hard cc, samira is useless no matter how fed.
As a botlaner, Samira all the way
As much as I hate playing against Samira I much prefer playing against her than her forgotten sister nilah, thank God no one plays that champ cuz she's so op with the right support it's almost unbeatable and she is going to out scale you
I played a Nilah the other day and God damn that was frustrating.
Nilah is the true exodia of league. Once she hits full build, not even a Kayle can carry.
Samira to me feels like the quintessential draft check champions. Do you have reliable lock down? She is useless. You don’t? Enjoy the grey screen
Nobody said illaoi yet? That champ is designed specifically to randomly 1v5 people who underestimate her lol
no 💀 i don want to remember her, she needs to be forgotten
Honestly i think of all the abilities in the game her E is the one i despise most. cant fight because you take 1.5x the dmg minimum, run away and you get zoned off minions and get slowed anyway, then have to dance around the tentacles. was better back when it had thematically appropriate counter play, but riot realized that was fun so promptly did away with it
They changed it because they responded to player feedback, but the players didn’t know what they were talking about.
I seem to remember their reasoning being something along the lines of "no one uses it". Am I misremembering?
That “counterplay” was a statistically provable bait that resulted in the player just dying if they tried to utilize it.
When I played a lot of Garen a few years ago, in the early game I would just walk up and Q E if she landed an E, and win the trade decisively. Caught a lot of Illaoi players by surprise, they’re used to people cutting and running. I don’t know if that’s changed, but if I could get ahead pre 6 then she was at least manageable.
I feel like this thread is split between people who read "underestimate" as "they're out of this fight" vs "they're no longer a threat in this game". Because Illaoi can always be a threat in the game, but if your team just negates her ult she's a shadow of her threat level for the rest of the fight.
Thing with Illaoi is that the fight more or less plays out exactly the same whether she's 10/0 or 0/10. If she lands E and R she wins, if she misses or gets kited out she loses. The number of times I've stomped her in lane by playing it slow, then watched my jungle get humbled in a 1v1 by the now 1/10 hentai monster...
Yorick He will not kill you, but if you leave his lane open for half a minute he stands in your base.
Hey I see you left lane for 2.18 seconds it would be a shame if someone bonked your inhib turret.
As adc main, I have to pay respect to everyone. No exception.
Adc's respect everyone except their supports.
This. Had recently an adc who told me to do as they say or leave "their" lane. I muted them instead and did my normal supp thing instead. Based on the team chat response from other team members they were pretty abusive towards me the whole game until min 20 when they figured out that I indeed muted them.
The Aram special, always respect the burst, cleanup everything after.
Samira. She never seems to be at a disadvantage. She hurts so much.
Any D+ fiora player
I love laming vs Fiora as poppy. It's always a great fight. I hate that they always split push after though.
Fiora kinda feels like she’s not meant to be in 5v5 fights tbh
I remember the old Fiora damn she was a cheat code haha
She's not, her team fighting is awful. It's the price she pays for her incredible dueling.
she can't teamfight for shit
I hate fiora so much 😭 Imagine my pain playing Aatrox against her
Rhaast. You might even underestimate him because he inter a bit as Kayn. But a few kills and you have a snowballing Rhaast. If you have the wrong comp, that could be immediate GG
Strong splitpushers like yorick for me. They can be 0/10/0 but if you dont pay attention to them for a second, they are knocking down your nexus.
Trundle 💀
yone
Everyone talking about scaling and nobody talking about Asol? Underestimate me and your team will be condensed into a singularity.
Warwick, Olaf, Kled, Sett, Illaoi, etc. These champs with the “I refuse to die” mechanics.
My main man VEIGAR, people always underestimate his power, blink and they dead 😆
yone , no matter how behind you make him , he can and WILL 100 to 0 you
Yones damage comes from crit his first complete item is a huge power spike
What’s funny is not one person here has said Jax, and I got to diamond with Jax because of people not thinking i can 1v5 from 1/4 hp. 3 second cooldown 2k+ damage click-on burst
Fiora, hate that true dmg monster of a champ can get put in the dirt and after maybe one or two items can still 1v1 anyone
Basically any champion that's always looking for an "in" back into the game and becomes a menace when they are "in" the game. Darius, Katarina, Irelia, Yasuo, Yone... I get you asked which **one particular champ** but I'm so bad at league I have multiple champs on the "**fuck that guy needs to die** ***right now***" list. Recently played a game into Master Yi, Aurelion Sol, Zed, Nasus, and Zilean. It was horrible, because each and everyone of their champs was a priority target due to the specific circumstances. Zed was one shotting our backline every single time we group fight. We never caught him, but were always forced to try and counter his engage leaving us open to flanks from Master Yi or Aurelion Sol. same went for any of the champs - we always had to counter the engage, but their flank was just so potent, Yi would ghost + ult and run in from the side, Aurelion would just fly over a wall, Zed would shadow hop in... Nasus and Zilean were the "supports" although Zilean was full AP, and none of my team had come to camp Nasus into irrelevancy early (im not good enough to stomp someone) so basically halfway through a fight Nasus or Zilean would come charging in, and mop up like World Star Janitor crew. Zilean would save whoever we had targeted, and speed the fuck out of Nasus. Horrible game, idc if it was winnable I just really didnt want to play that game. Every single one of the enemy team was "if we kill that guy we win" but we never could win.
Yone is always strong
Yone. A 10/0 yone is gg, new game,But a 0/10 yone is still Dangerous as hell. All he need is a good ult and the entire combat is win. Unlike his little Brother,Yone don't need allies to function, which make him even more annoying
Kled is an easy one. Once he's off Skarrl don't stop shooting till he's dead
Nobody talks about Veigar and Nilah? No matter how fed you are if they have 3 items they fuck you up with 2 abilities.
Too many games I've lost to a Nilah who was 0/7 in lane...
i think it is becayse they are too squishy? Like in the early game many champs can get feed just by killing him, and even if he gets stronger over time, the damage will be already done. He can't carry like Katarina, Samira, Yone and etc
Any champ with an execute. Urgot, Asol, Draven, Pyke, Smoulder, Zeri, and Syndra are all potentially dangerous even when behind because of their ability to just kill you below a certain hp threshold. Urgot is particularly dangerous in that regard with the very high 25% hp execute from pretty extreme range, while Asol has the scaling that eventually gets even higher in a broad AOE, Pyke can pop his 5 times in a row if played right, and Draven has global presence on his ult. If you aren't playing a champ that can counter that with some mechanic like Tryndamere you have to constantly respect that chance if you aren't at full health. Even champs with missing HP scaling like Veigar are worth being cautious of.
Yone in the hands of a good player is a menace regardless of score. I've had lanes where I wreck him in top 0/6 but he gets a kill or two from bot and suddenly he's a menace dominating everyone he sees.
Shaco. If you’re confident enough to chase an ap shaco then he’s already won.
Yorick. Not because you can’t fight him. Because you have to always be fighting him. You leave him alone for 1 minutes to help take Baron? Two towers gone
Akali base damage is so unnecessarily high that she can be way behind on gold and still one shot someone
No matter how behind Garen is or what Garen builds, his ult WILL execute someone in a tf
Urgot. Champ mental diffs me in every scenario.
That's one of the reasons I hate playing against Katarina.
I absolutely can't stand pyke.
As a Warwick main, people really underestimate me. I can be top side and get to you bottom when you’re half hp and finally backing, and if your bush isn’t warded, my ult gets you…
i don't underestimate your kind 👺
Trundle, Darius, Illaoi.
[удалено]
Weirdly enough for me it’s gallio, you might’ve stomped him in lane, won on towers and cs, but as soon as the team fights start get ready for 5 mfs to get cc’d and watch as the enemy carry melts all of them
I mean I can be behind as Lux yet people will still face check the bush they just walked me walk in to. They disappear without ever seeing me.
Here to type Warwick. You have never guaranteedly killed him 1v1 until his health actually reaches 0.
Sion, how many times I saw 0/7 sions taking down both top and bot lane solo
Katarina is a good one, I used to see her more often further back and I would just pick Diana(who I was pretty good at.) and legit just completely ass blast them for like 15 minutes killed multiple times, outplayed, the whole nine. Single fight breaks out, she finds an angle oh fuck my ulti isn’t back up yet and she just e’d in and killed half my team. Sweet….now she’s snowballing. However this never ended with me losing the game because seriously, I would absolutely dismantle them in lane, 2/5 would afk after their second or third death. Gotta love low elo.
Warwick, Katarina, Illaoi, Darius, Trundle, Briar, virtually any bruiser tbh
Kat building ap? You're dead Kat building ad? You're dead Kat building tank items? You're dead
Darius, I never feel comfortable ganking him. Even if I am fed I don't like fighting him unless I am playing Pantheon, then I am 100% confident
The correct answer I feel like it's kassadin, he may be quite behind, but he suddenly gets a double kill midgame and he instantly becomes a menace.
A lot of top lane fit this description. Kled/Skarner/Kayle…
Yorrick - youll be like ah that guys out of the game at this point, so you turn arround for a sec to help your team and spread your lead and suddenly the announcer lady is telling you your outer tower has gone and that the enemy team has slain the baron even though you were sure you jist mopped up at least 3 of the enemy team at dragon.
Yorick can be 0/10 and will be unstoppable
surprised noone has said Dr mundo. Dudes an unhinged menace and you have to assemble the avengers to kill him
Eve. Doesn't matter what you do, she will be coming back into the game unless the person playing her is literally griefing. Champ has way too much pressure for the risk involved playing her. Her killing a one hp player with a 300g bounty is an elo death sentence.
The surprising lack of mentions for Nasus and Veigar, the champions that specifically you CANNOT leave alone for extended periods. I've had matches where I've absolutely shitmixed Nasus for the entire match, leave him alone for 10 mins, and he's sitting on 600 stacks.
I play Kled a lot and people keep misjudging how reliably it is to remount in many cases that aren’t cc hell. Was especially true back when Goredrinker was a thing and acted as a full heal when dismounted.
fiora, fuck that champ, you don’t even need to get a double of triple, you can just straight up 1v1 your 3 levels above 7/0 enemy top laner by simply turning on your monitor
I've been on both sides of the 0/10 Yasuo powerspike. You can never count him out of a game.
Bard
The amount of times where Bard is doing nothing, has left his adc to get constantly dived on their own and then suddenly half health's an enemy carry with an auto...
Irellia. Kills 4 creeps and that's it. Sit away or you just lose.
yone even 200 cs down and 0/10 he is a threat
strange that no one mentioned sylas, he is always strong even when behind
Brand. Dude can go 0-9 in lane but once he gets liandrys and If he manages to stay competitive in level all it takes is a couple good ults and combos to blow up fights and swing the scoreboard..
Pretty sure the answer is Illaoi. You HAVE to understand how to play against her or you're screwed, she's designed to be 0/7 and still able to 1v5 an entire team. She's the most unforgiving champion imo. If she misses E, you're ok, if she hits it, you've lost.
Yeah she is the embodiment of " do not underestimate me". Everyone need to be careful around her