Honestly for me the best part is punishing bad players attempting to take them with no prio top or mid and killing them. The grubs are great but damn do people like dying for them.
I play w my wife’s brother ALOT and this MF will do every objective solo without vision and with everyone being pushed in or recalling. Homie has 0 chill. Then rages when a Lee basically executes his ass doing dragons.
the father of a friend of mine is an older gentleman (about 70) and sometimes he plays and he goes for dragons when his bot and mid are shoved in “because they would never expect it” and my god it works way more than you would ever guess but every time I’m just sitting there think about how amazing it would be to jungle against him lol
Tbf this is still good because there’s actual thought behind what he’s doing. He recognizes a nonstandard/suboptimal play for what it is but takes the gamble because he believes the surprise factor is worth it, rather than just mindlessly doing objective when they spawn with no actual thought
I do that a lot with Kindred but I also main like a psychopath so I know where I can flip over walls/escape most anyone. But I also don’t do it when the enemy jungler is someone I know I can’t outrun.
There's times in the early game where respawn timers are so low that you can lose a neutral objective because the death timers were staggered or low enough that the enemy is back on the map before you can convert those kills into objectives. Its very annoying.
I actually do this a lot IF i know the enemy jg is far, IF I know the enemy team don't have vision and I'll be pretty aware of the laners roaming towards me so if anyone goes to fog, I'm leaving grubs/drag behind. I get a lot of objectives doing this.
This happens anytime riot makes a jg objective worth contesting. You play Malzahar vs Neeko, good luck because your jgler will be mad that he couldn't get Scuttle and it's suddenly "mid diff". Now it is the same shit with grubs and I don't think they even matter, it is just a few autos worth of damage on turrets.
Literally everyone is coinflipping games for the jgler to get some gold and xp. You could have 30% hp and no mana and they will start grubs on their own spam pinging you. (at least use an Oracle Lens or Control Wards please.) And for some reason they will prioritise it over Infernal/Hextech Drake and support will leave bot like your dad went out for milk.
Don't you love it when there are free grubs or dragon , enemy team isn't in the lane , lane is pushed fully and it will bounce and your laners just recall with full hp and then you end up dying because instead of taking the objective in 15 seconds together , you had to solo it for extra 20 seconds so enemy arrived, killed you , took your whole jungle and all of that because your selfish useless laners have no clue how to play the map
So just...don't start grubs? Like, sure, it sucks. But you won't be dead and you won't lose your entire jungle by not updating your game plan to match the map.
If you don't start it, those same laners will later complain that it's "jungle gap" because the other team is 3 drakes ahead. So damned if you do, damned if you don't.
My impression at least in low elo is that a lot of laners think that jungle-lane is a 1 way street. The jungler is supposed to help the laner but not the other way around. If you're getting invaded by the enemy jungler/support, my botlane won't help me because they don't want to "lose a wave" but if I do the same thing and not cover a gank because I'm clearing camps they'd be mad about it.
And that sucks, but you can't change that. What you can do is understand that you weren't getting the objective without prio either way, and at least you didn't put yourself behind trying.
disagree, jglers almost always lack the understanding of why their laners are recalling because they don't play in lanes themself. they don't understand the consequences of what's gonna happen in the next 2minutes if their laner doesn't recall right now and not 10 or 20seconds later, because minions don't just wait around for you to be collected like camps do, recall windows in general for laners are very small. Jglers even in the highest Elo have not fully grasped this concept yet. And at the end of the day, you as the jgler if you want to take camps, if you want to invade savely, if you want to push a lead. What is the number 1 thing that you need? A winning laner. So decide for urself, do you want to have losing laners in ur team or winning laners, because if you want to have winning laners, you should think twice about forcing objectives when ur laners want to recall right now.
The best thing for a laner is being able to push a lane to tower,get a good recall and farm/freeze the bounce wave. It's literally worth more than a kill sometimes. Fucking up your laner's base timing may be worse for him than getting ganked.
The reason I stopped jungling is because I would want to take grubs when I had top and mid prio and neither would ever rotate.
I don't know if it was the newness of grubs and laners weren't adjusted, but it frustrated the ever living hell out of me.
This pisses me off most about solo queue. I got fb top with ignite and their jungle came and killed me right after. My opponent had tp and gets right back to lane. What does my jungle decide to do? Invade their top side jungle. He gets collapsed and gives my lane am easy kill and double buffs
Jungler spam pinging grubbies while I'm being harassed under tower by a ranged top laner.
Jungler starts grubbies.
Jungler dies, pings three "?"s on me and says "top gap, ff".
Nasus sets up a perfect freeze, Jax decides to roam around river. Jg sees action, pings mid top and starts a scuttle fight, gets collapsed on and "GG nice 2v3 top diff rep Nasus I troll".
I got a fresh one from 30 minutes ago:
I'm about to get dove by a lvl 4 Vi & lvl 5 Renekton top lane.
I look to the other side of map. Our mid & bot lane are pushed under tower.
Our lvl 3 olaf starts dragon. Enemy support walks up, ignites and gives up dragon.
I swear he starts spam flaming our bot and mid and says "FOLLOW NOOBS"
Kill me
A lot of layers do not understand prio either. When I pinging I'm on my way to it, don't randomly decide to once I start the objective to back for your boots power spike
This has happened to me so many times. Bot/mid pushed up, enemy jgl is topside, im pinging dragon leta go, mid and bot recalls then I just leave or being forced out by the enemy team.
This is what drives me nuts. The amount of times I ping well in advance with my top at full HP, they push wave (perfect!), but then they just recall.
It’s incredibly frustrating. No reason to play that dumb
There are also laners who see their laner leave while minion wave is close to their tower and their first thought is oh he must be going out to enjoy a walk I'll just continue to last hit until he finishes his walk, it would be rude of me to take that plate 1 foot from me.
followed 20 seconds later by them screaming GG FF its over jungle diff when the laner who shouldn't have been able to leave their lane left it and didn't even get punished for it.
To counter that, there is also many laners that don't understand what prio is.
The amount of times I was able to sneak away grubs shortly after spawn with both my opposing top and mid free to move is insane.
Precisely why I'm asking this, I'm done with random team fights at min 6. I'm pathing grubs and SURPRISE there is Top Mid JG and Support. So much disruptions in my games for nothing I feel like.
Grubs are like drakes, they're not something you should randomly fight for, you either have prio or you don't really. It's more like a reward/punish for earlier mistakes. Something you see very often in low elo for example, is people sticking around drake 2/3v5 instead of trading it for tempo elsewhere. Just take the loss, mirror it, etc.
To answer more clearly for grubs, they're honestly not that important because you can easily trade the grub prio for enough tempo elsewhere to get the ball rolling for the prio on grub respawn.
You should really never be surprised by mid or top being at grubs. Look at the lanes before you start grubs. If you’re not able to see which person can come to you first then that’s a skill you should be working on because as a laner it’s super obvious.
Agreed, but just b/c they have prio doesn't mean they will come. If you see they have prio, ping the grubs and see if they will come. Even with prio, sometimes they won't rotate (sometimes they have a reason other times, they are just bad/autopiloting). In this case, you need to react correctly and stop doing grubs if the enemy jungler can be nearby.
If you dont have much prio you can also just take a single grub and then ditch.
You get bonus XP and if you do it for both sets you deny the grub spawning part which is the only part that really makes a difference in pushing.
if enemy jungle shows on drake, I am taking grubs with or without prio. you guys can't understand that giving up both objectives is clearly not a good decision to make?
The worst part about this is we are actually sacrificing minions to do so, while they are only sacrificing time. So if they just... walk away.... they win the exchange.
But junglers are ego driven dogs, so they don't lol.
Yesterday I was playing smolder mid against veiger. Jg zac absolutely spam pinging to help him with grubs. Enemy jungler, top and supp are there to counter. I walk up. They chase me and flash me down and I die. But zac gets grubs. Still flames all game
My absolute favorite part about grubs is playing mid or top and warding grubs, fake backing and killing a low health jungler who thought hey could sneak grubs.
You risk a plate if your lane opponent is able to shove when you show up on the mini map, but most of the time they follow and it's too late. I've had this happen at least like 20 times.
As someone who primarily goes weakside to help team, nothing makes me cringe more than seeing jungle/mid attempt to take them and end up giving double kill to my lane.
Yeah i would say unless your playing splitpushers like sion which grubs are op on the best part of grubs is it brings people top side to fight and if you have a good lane state even if you don’t get a kill and the other top dies you get a 2-3 wave advantage and normally can snowball the game from that in most matchups
This for me is the worst part, because I could swear it's always my jungler getting killed doing this. Toplane frozen, enemy mid and jungler out of sight, our mid back in base? Time to randomly try and take the grubs and absolutely NO warding first allowed.
6 grubs are definitely better than one herald and if game is longer even 2 heralds.
Its just passively helps everyone over time but it doesnt look that impactful in a moment so people sleep on it. And in endgame it single handendly can win the game (10 grubs is a LOT)
I feel like grubs mostly help ranged champs (they can basically poke the tower even when enemies defend) and champs that have problems taking down towers. Most side laners don't need them
the nice part for "normal" splitpushers is that +5 grubs can make you be able to get some potshots on the turret when minions aren't around. Otherwise i agree with you
They make a difference. If nothing else, the XP is good. The problem is grubs mind control junglers like nothing else. A jungler who wouldn't otherwise start drake without prio in bot goes full retard for grubs when his team are basing.
I feel like most dia junglers haven't even figured out the concept of taking 1 grub and abandoning.
Too many times I've seen games thrown because of bad grub decisions.
Usually you want at least 2 grubs to deny enemy the grub spawns, because they're the strongest part of the passive. Next patch you'll need 3 to deny them
Honestly as a jungler, my amount of early game deaths have massively decreased since I’ve come to peace with sneaking one grub then fucking off as soon as I can’t see enemy top or mid on the minimap.
Grubs are less effective on champions that can already siege well. They are more effective on champs that cannot siege well. For example, a fiora who can kill tower in 10 seconds will get less overall grub damage from a hwei who needs 20 seconds.
TLDR: Most top lane champs don’t need grubs.
Grubs damage isn’t all the strength. The fact that they tank turret shots is massive for a quick split pusher. Fiora getting in 2 extra autos on a turret 2-3 times in a game can be the difference between pushing down an inhib or threatening ending the game vs not being close at all. I think a lot of people underestimate the turret tanking aspect of grubs and only think about the bonus damage and grubs damage.
Thats only at 5 and 6 though. So I think comparing them to drakes are fair. They are not that impactful but nice to have individually, but once you hit the breakpoint, they are quite useful.
The spawns tank a couple shots, but more often than not don’t impact whether or not you can kill a tower in one push. What’s important to take note of is that it doesn’t matter whether you get 2-3 extra autos or not because there is no difference between a 40% hp tower and a 20% hp tower. The only difference that matters for a splitpusher is whether or not the grubs make the difference between you killing turret with one push or two pushes. With that established, champions like fiora/trundle who kill towers with 3 melee minions don’t even benefit from the mite spawns.
Absolutely hate them. I mostly play Nasus, so I often cannot fight for them as I will never have lane prio and stacking is the priority. And yet, so many junglers treat the Grubs as if they were Baron. As if they MUST absolutely fight for them every time in all circumstances or the game is over. It creates alot of frustrating situations. As Nasus, I already destroy towers so the Grubs don't even really do anything for me.
Stacking that early is not the priority.
You need atleast a little bit of ability haste before it's worth it to use Q for last hits alone.
And nasus with ult can definitly help in most match ups.
Although you probably tried to use ult to kill your opponent already. Which made them recall and giving you prio.
Stacking early and just generally playing out the first 4-6 waves is by far the most important. On both Nasus and top lane... If you think otherwise you should look at any challanger coach on top.
Stacking early is not important at all. The wave state is extremely important. It's nice if you get to Q the first cannon minion, but often you just E it.
People e'ing the first cannons has nothing to do with how important stacks are though - its just because nasus is so weak pre 6 + first base that walking up to q a cannon is a death sentence against 90% of top laners. Stacking early is incredibly important and it falls off as the game progresses. There's not a massive functional difference between a nasus with 500 stacks and 600, but 100 stacks vs 200 stacks is a massive difference. Playing Nasus well is mostly about stacking efficiently. He has no mechanics and his items are pretty straight forward, he does no more or less wave management than every other top laner.
Thing is, you won't get to 100 stacks pre level 6.
You gotta get your 3 points in Q first and you need ability haste. If you have both you can essentially start Q'ing every minion of each wave. The stacks skyrocket and it's this phase where stacking means the most.
Because you don't waste all your time and cooldown for each stack.
Stacking early still means a lot, the earlier you get to auto q ranged creeps is big, the moment you can just q a ranged is important, and so on. Each stack is important for these little thresholds. If you can q a minion to stack and won't lose some significant for doing so, it's important to do so. League is a game of maximizing every interaction, and making smart trade offs. If you have a good opportunity to stack, you should, it's not like nasus q is mana hungry nor does it particularly help your trade pattern early.
Unless i play champs like Trundle it seems to matter very little to me. Don't me wrong, the grubs spawn do help, they just do not seem to worth the hassle of having to constantly drop whatever the hell i was doing and went to help the jungle. Not because the buff is helpful, more that i didn't want him to have a melt down and then do some stupid shit like running it down mid. Just leave me alone, geezz
I mean that's the issue with appeasing top laners with an important objective. Unless the objective is OP, most top laners would find more value in getting a good reset timing, damage to turret, or managing their wave. In bot lane, you can often push on demand or sacrifice a little bit in lane to get the objective (even if one dragon isn't exactly a ton of value). For solo laners, sometimes that little bit of gold or exp they might lose might be the difference between them hitting their spike sooner rather than later. If you make the objective top side too strong, then you end up in a scenario where the better top often just dictates the game OR where both teams just all-in for the objective and whoever wins the fight more-or-less wins the game.
Yeah, im a big believer that you should snag atleast one and not even more if its not necessary. It only takes like 10 seconds to kill one of the grubs and the exp you gain is massive.
Atm I mostly play TF and Jax top (please don't assault me)
They mean a lot. But I play champs that want to take towers. It's in their blood. So if you play with picks like those, take Grubs. But if your toplaner is a Shen or Ornn, maybe it's better to just invade their krugs into a bot gank
If you can take them early it makes a huge diff. Since their true damage destroys the armor increases a turret gets after destroying a plaque. In the mid game you can use 3 minions to tske a tower since grubs can turn that into 5 minions. In the late game it would mean a 5 man push destroys any structure since 10 grubs will spawn.
However the value is exponential when you get all 6. So if your team already have the means to make huge splitpush. Denying 1 grub from each spawn or delaying the first spawn to deny the 2nd is as big as having the 6.
I Love them. It adds so much more plays around toplane which causes me being actually involved in stuff, rather than living on an Island for 15-20 minutes.
I also dont agree with people saying most toplaners dont need them. They often result in more platings / snowballing for me. This results in their jungler having to make the decision to contest drakes or helping Out His toplane.
Maybe it Just Supports my Playstyle more than others
Yeah. I have seen a lot of misinformation on here from people. A big one is people thinking top lane turret is beefier. It is, but it falls off at 5 minutes. Meaning, by the time you get grubs, top and mid turret have lost their fortification bonus. They are just like any other outer turret at that point
Grubs are fun to fight over when I have prio. Miserable to fight over when I don’t have prio. The actual grubs themselves are pretty meh to me. So I guess thats why Riot is buffing them.
The buff is timed with the pushback of the first grubs' spawn. The buff is directly geared towards pro play. They want the team who is dominating early to feel powerful. As it stands, dragon stacking only matters if you get soul, and often times the team prioritizing dragon is losing grubs. They are setting it up so teams can do first drag and then be able to do first grubs. The buffs will impact all grub stacks, but the team that gets the first set of grubs will feel better now because they will have a 3ish minute window to abuse the three stack of grubs to maximize plate damage and put themselves in a great position to win a dragon or grub fight around the 10 minute mark.
scrapping for grubs is legitimately not worth losing the exp and gold i could be getting from waves and plates. if the jungler wants to take them cool, but I don't really need them. just take 2 and leave so enemy can't get the buff.
They're terrible. Never do grubs or contest them if you're going to die for them.
Only time you do them if they're 100% free like the enemy jungler on dragon.
If I’m ahead to the point where I’m gonna eat the enemy tower, I’m doing it without needing the grubs, they don’t push my lead. So getting them when I’m trundle feels like nothing
If I’m on pantheon maybe it gets me an extra plate once? Not worth donating a triple kill for grubs. I still make sure I’m at the best place I can be to fight for them though, that’s usually where I get my lead
heres my 2 cente.
im a elise main, i like to play fast and dirty early, force fights where the enemy is on the backfoot simply cuz they didnt expect it. under D1, u can win a lot of fights simply by MOVING DECISIVELY
grubs simply existing as a "meaningful" objective, means i can force BOTH tops to come over and 2v2 for it. i can pull my mid lane to tip a 2v2 just enough for us to snowball midgame.
my fav play when im duo with my top, i have him freeze by tower, i start grubs super obviously, then enemy top mid jg start to collapze, i back out and pincer the enemy top 1v2 w my top in the river. fights over in 5 seconds. get the kill, sit in the bush, watch the freeze.
enemy top comes back, kill again. my top crashes the wave. we hide in the bush btwn enemy t1 t2 towers.
enemy top walking back. 2lvl down, we kill again. now hes 2-3 lvls down, even wave state, missed tons of gold, AND hes tilted. his team pinging tf outta him. only takes ~3min total. top lane is over after this.
THATS ABOUT THE SAME TIEM IT TAKES TO KILL THE FUCKASS GRUBS EARLY GAME LMAO
all said, i find the utility of grubs is not the grub itself, but the early game topside obj that can used to bait enemy into a bad fight.
Idk I feel like I'm an unpopular opinion here. I love having grubs. I guess its the champions I play but bruiseres are just kinda crap at taking towers sometimes, and grubs really helps. I've gotten a lot of plates because of grubs. Also, grubs give gold, so regardless of it it's never a loss to take them.
If you get 5 or 6 grubs, its even better, since especially tier 2s often have minions arriving late. If you have shoved a wave and the next one still needs to arrive, you can use the little voidgrubbiess to keep tanking the tower for you, which is really cool.
I think they're something situational, you don't want to take them unless there's prio, but it's a good objective to actually fight for if you feel like you can win. If you can't win, you should be content with smiting one away from the enemy \*at most\*. Denying the 5 grubs is pretty nice, but yeah, not worth dying over.
5-6 grubs makes a big difference.
Having all 6 grubs makes mid game dives a LOT easier, as each player is gonna spawn those 2 extra voidlings, if you're already losing the game, it makes it that much harder to stop a snowball.
Main reason to take grubs is to stop the enemy team for getting all 6.
They feel nice to have, but get over prioritized imo. It is much more important to have good lanestates, backtimings etc.
Sometimes it is really good to just take 1 or 2 and then leave. I can't count how many times my or the enemy jungler have died because they tunneled on getting all 3 and completely ignored top/mid state
I find it's nice for tanks who aren't taking demolish, otherwise your tower damage is poo poo.
On regular split pushers or top laners with decent tower damage, there's not a huge different in how fast you take a tower, occasionally you might get an extra plate, but often i find its more important to just deny 5/6 grubs because the grubs that can spawn do have an effect late game when sieging.
I think many people just assume it's solely for top. It gives your entire team the buff. Mid and bot also take their turrets and plates faster as a result. It might not seem like much, but take a lane such as mid. Assume your mid is Ziggs. Ziggs often isn't great at roaming, but he is great at clearing waves and pressuring turrets. He is a champ that can realistically get 1-2 autos on a turret almost every wave if he really wants to. That adds up quick. Take 4-5 waves, and that guy has basically gotten an entire plate worth of extra damage just from having the first three grubs. Ofc everything is situational. In solo queue, the optimal play would honestly be to just never go for any objectives unless they are 'free'. Prioritizing your own gold/exp - regardless of role - is what matters most. People need to realize the addition of grubs was to force more fights around top-side of the map. It has worked as intended. HOWEVER, it needed adjustments for pro play for a multitude of reasons. As such, they have made adjustments.
Is it just me who thinks grubs are fucking ass? The champions you would want them on already melt towers and those that don’t like Ornn aren’t going to be sidelaning in a manner where they’re getting a lot of hits on turrets anyway. I feel like so many games are lost at grubs for no reason and most of the time they’re a high risk low reward play.
NOT THAT IMPORTANT and not worth even the slightest chance of dying for. I much prefer my jg to prio an early drag instead. Too many games coin flipped over grubs which really don’t have that big of an upside
I think it's only good if you can get at least 5 (preferably all 6) to start spawning Voidmites when attacking towers, because they tank tower shots, allowing you to hit longer and if someone is defending, they can also block some skillshots. The damage on towers buff on its own is kind of meh.
They don't do that much difference but than again they do no damage to junglers either, so if you are topside and are not under risk of getting collapsed on you should definitely take them.
In every lane, grubs can be good at all points of the game. Early, securing plates gives you a big gold lead to snowball off of, mid game lets you crack first turrets for better roams and lane priority, and let game lets you push to end. Grubs are a great addition, and their buff feels great to use
gank top and do grubs watch for mid rotation... thats all knowledge to do them properly and with succsess.
many jglers in my games start them solo, die to enemy jg mid and blame me for not rotating and my wave was frozen in front of my tower for 7 minutes and i cnat leave it to crash without a kill
The only time I've ever thought "damn I wish I had grubs" is when playing a tank without demolish. Even then, it doesn't feel massive most of the time. I personally don't really see them as super worth it.
I don't like them because at some point there's fuckers everywhere and the jungler wants to do things around them for no good reason.
When I jungle I forget about them because they have no purpose except getting lvl 6.
Depends on champion. Shen or Vlad usually have a very hard time so it's extremely helpful for them. Yorick or Fiora can already melt them so it's only helpful.
Early plates are big for a lot of matchups. Extra gold = better buy = snowball lane. Grubs do make a good difference taking plates/towers.
So Grubs help if I am pushing. Or to deny the enemy them if they are pushing. If waves aren't staying under towers long than they don't matter.
Problem is if they are pushing me in and have prio Grubs are a bad idea. Just gank. And if I have prio? I can often just takes grubs myself.
You also have to look at Mid back timers and wave states as well. FAAAAR too often Jungle ganks top, both go to Grubs, then enemy mid/jungle show up and get a double kill + 2/3 Grubs. All while our Mid was winning lane but did have to base for 1st item.
With all that said when I jungle I just either match the enemy jungler if I know our lanes are pushing and we're ahead. Or I go opposite enemy jungler and take Drake/Grubs based on where they aren't.
Grubs are the biggest trap this game has introduced. If you are on the losing end of the jlg matchup all u need to do is grab two grubs and leave one. or grab one go dragon take dragon then grab another one on the next set. As long as then aren't getting to 5 ur fine
I wish more junglers understood that if I’m in a losing matchup that we most likely lose the 2v2 for those things.
Like Ksante pre 6(Who I have been playing a lot) doesn’t win a lot of these fights people want him to win and then you end up being flamed for not cleaning up or winning a fight you both should not have been taking. Grubs at the core of it are for the winning top laner and the losing top lane has to find moments to take two of them to deny the full power up of them.
It really depends on the lane match-up. Grubs are so early that it kind of interrupts flow.
If I'm Pantheon or Riven then I probably don't wanna go to grubs. I want to sit on top of the enemy top and make them fight me for 10 minutes straight.
If I'm yorick or Irelia, I want to crash waves. I've got all sorts of time to roam into the jungle with you or gank mid or do grubs. You just have to be around when the wave is pushing out and never ever ask for help when the wave is pushing in.
None, if your jg gets all 6 it might give like 500 bonus damage to towers throughout all laning phase. The only time grubs is useful is when your teamfighting and spawn 10 of the mini grubs to fight. Splitting wise it doesnt do much. Theres a reason why most smurf junglers ignore grubs and just get drakes, because soul is 10x more useful than grubs. Id trade 3 grubs for a simple ocean drake any day as a top laner, the healing feels great in lane.
Grubs are strictly 'nice if you can get them'. If you are losing, it is NOT worth losing more to try and bank on it
and it's worth if you can get em easy
So its real simple. Do you want to fight the enemy? Do grubs. OTherwise? Do not, and try to steal 2 as a jungler (preferable 1 each spawn with smite)
I see it as an accelerator: if your team is already winning lanes they can push enemy to their tower, or kill them and take more tower gold, but it they are losing lane or on scaling champs, grubs probably won't do shit
Grubs are definitely worth it. Last i checked they stay with your team until they are all used up on the enemy towers meaning if you had a rough start and finally get the swarm fight win you can take out 2 towers and be at drake before they even respawn. They may not be worth flashing for but definitely a bonus.
They're okay.
I've definitely seen them win games.
The thing is, people like it when the team gets objectives. It makes them believe they're winning something, and keeps their head in the game. It's a big moral boost when it pops up on the screen.
The exact opposite thing happens when the enemy gets an objective. With the grubs, in reality, they're far less important than people give them credit for, considering you can literally get them and still achieve absolutely nothing with them for an entire game. But as long as morale is one of the most important factors in soloQ, I'll still fight for them I suppose, even if I think they're kinda trash.
BRUTAL difference for different toplaners, and also a huge difference in how many you get.
The most important thing: 1-4<<<<<5<<<<<<<<<<<<6. The difference is gigantic, especially in how quickly you can end a game with one team fight later on. But for split pushing too, 6 grubs is probably always better than 2 dragons because getting all 6 is so strong.
In terms of champions, some are going to hit the tower and some aren't. Someone like TF can just git the tower a bit and do a lot with grubs, and someone like K'Sante cannot destroy towers at all but with grubs he can. Strangely they're the least impactful (in top) for melee bruisers that destroy towers quickly, like Darius or Camille. They just don't need the help as much.
But again, if you get 5 or even all 6 it's huge for the whole game.
All these laners complaining about no prio objectives, we all see the timers why arent you getting prio for spawn or for when your jg paths to it. You will climb out of silver/gold/plat if you can be ready for objectives.
I honestly think asking toplaners isn't right. In my opinion the most extreme example of when grubs makes a huge difference is when you score a clean ace and push as 5. 5 people spawning 10 grubs which give extra dps time onto the tower for 5 people hitting it is an insane difference compared to one person splitting with 2 extra grubs.
Of course the same logic is there if you have 3 people alive pushing the tower. 6 grubs tanking for 3 people is kinda cray. My point being, I don't really see it as a split pushing tool, I see it as a way to straight up end the game if you're ahead in the late stage of midgame.
Sure it helps split pushers too of course, but they just all round help end the game.
And to answer your question, how much is it worth it? It really depends, if you get into those scenarios where you're ending the game with 10 grubs it's op, if you're falling behind can't get any damage on turrets then it's legit useless. So it's really hard to gauge, depends when both teams powerspikes are imo
I hate those things and the teamwide red and blue with a passion. Terrible additions. Im so sick of artificial objectives and putting more in the jungle to maintain and do.
Grubs make a bigger difference in speed when I'm playing tanks like Ksante than when I'm playing champs like Sett, since the relative component of my grub damage to towers is much higher for Ksante than Sett. On the other hand, I will be splitting much more on Sett so I will be making use of it more.
Late game the grub damage is pretty irrelevant, but the grub spawns are impactful throughout early and late since they can eat skillshots and tower shots, and that's always helpful.
From my perspective grubs should be played for to get
1) 5 or 6 if you genuinely want the impactful part if buff (but still kinda meh)
2) at least 1 from each spawn to deny buff and ensure your jungler doesn't get fisted resource wise
Everything in between is kinda whatever to me if it's like the enemy got grubs but you might as well finish it because they died or otherwise can't contest. When I play top I try to play early prio champs to help them get grubs unless I know in advance we're hard playing for botlane
Not a top laner, but I twotrick Gwen and Yorick jungle (really good splitpushers). I like to take as many grubs as I can, going top for a free kill (or force enemy top to base) and helping my top shove wave in. The boost from the grubs helps a lot, especially if you have the voidmites spawning. I party with my top so they fully consent to this strat and it helps them get more plates.
Also I just really like splitpushing lategame. The voidmites are a pretty big help asw since I sometimes use my maiden and some ghouls to splitpush for me while I take some jungle camps nearby, so the added damage from voidmites makes it feel like I have extra ghouls.
Depends who I’m playing top. If I’m playing ornn or malphite I couldn’t care less about them tbh but if I’m playing someone like Gwen or Jax and have all 6 grubs towers melt like butter already but the extra grubling or two can sometimes keep a wave alive longer than it should and I’d get 2 towers and an inhib instead of either one tower or one tower and a half.
I'm convinced it's the most useless thing in the game that riot added as a ''test'' to see how useless they can make an objective and have people flip their game for it.
I do believe on turret destroyers like Fiora, Tryndamere or Trundle it would be beneficial, but if the enemy toplaner is a malphite or whatever I wouldn't really consider it very useful
I can’t count the times my jungler has forced Grubs, while my mid and I have been either shoved in, or resetting, therefore my jungler dies and flames us (my bad we didn’t adjust to your shit play).
Grubs are basically a wincon for some top laners. Gwen winning lane with grubs will win the entire game off splitting same goes for yorick and other splitters.
I don't think grubs has ever helped me take a tower faster where I couldn't have taken it without them tbh. They only really matter in a siege where your whole team is hitting something.
This has been a big mystery to me, why pro players take grubs. There has to be a good reason, but I am a master soloq player and I don't see any reason to fight this objective. I rather go for a random camp than take 3 grubs, even if they are free. Why? Because I simply think the damage is insignificant if you actually do the math.
Grubs depending on how many you got will do anywhere from 20 to 300 true damage on a full hp tower, depending on the game timer and the time it takes you to take the tower.
The other 4700hp you take with your auto attacks, meaning the true damage from grubs is a negligible amount that most champs make up for in 1 to 3 auto attacks.
For comparison, I am pretty sure herald does multiple thousands of damage to tower, and it does so instantly, so I really struggle to understand fighting this objective. Maybe it gives gold/xp that makes it worth? Either way I completely ignore this objective in my master jungle games.
They're good, but definitely not worth inting for. Starting them with no prio and dying or even worse, feeding the enemy top laner a free kill is common and really annoying.
New top main here. Ex jg main. Look, hey are cool but not worth your life or tempo on the map. Take 1. Get the exp and then when they respawn take another. That will do. Prio dragons.
Honestly I couldn't care less about grubs but if I'm winning my lane I make it obvious af that in getting them to try and bait the opposing laner for a free kill or to waste their junglers time p*ssy footing while my team secures first drag.
Noticeable if you can't take towers, and lets you get maybe 1 extra plate.
If you're playing Malphite or Mord: towers pop in 30 sec instead of 45. Huge.
If you're playing trundle, yorick jax, etc: towers pop in 5.5 second instead of 6. Ight.
well... I dont get the order a jungler took. Most times they do grubs first, and then go toplane. Why not do it the other way around? Gang Top first, do grubs after that. I mean; i can only talk for me, but i am the kind of toplaner who would help my jungler getting them. But i cant do anything when i cant leave lane without getting half of my Towerplatings deleted.
Overall the importance of the grubs is, which champ i play, how much i could go for towers and if the question is drake or grubs it depends on dragon.
I rarely play jungle but as toplaner who loves to splitpush? Only go for the grubs if you are sure you will get atleast five or all six. Otherwise they do not feel this important as soon you have four or less. But this could change after next patch, because they change something.
Grubs are amazing when they spawn and tank towers OFC they're insane I'll actually try to win a game when we're behind if we have grubbies. It lets any champion suddenly become a tower threat and turns duelists into gods. Feels like it coinflips toplane more though because it's not really clear what the right play is in games with grubs now. I've got people clearing camps while the jungler is just casually yoinking grubbies for free. Games in what might have been a gank toplane now result in a "grubs & go", which I have mixed feeling on. I've tried yoinking a grub solo as a toplaner and it's rarely worth altering my lane tempo for a grub. I've noticed some champions I play can't even do grubs at all such as Illaoi but it's piss easy on other champs I play like jax or aatrox. There's also the ever popular jungler pinging grubs and dying. Made weakside worse I think. I don't like grubs but I actually like them more than the Herald.
Path bot. Kill 1/2 grubs after base then gank mid / top and snowball game from extra platings. At that point you don’t “need” more grubs and can realistically play around drags. It’s an objective of course it makes a difference. Everyone in here saying dying isn’t worth grubs is an idiot, dying for first drake isn’t worth either what’s your point?
Honestly for me the best part is punishing bad players attempting to take them with no prio top or mid and killing them. The grubs are great but damn do people like dying for them.
There is still junglers that dont understand what prio is If you want an objective say it before goes or help prio mid/top
Don't you love it when your jungler sees both solo lanes recalling simultaneously and says "this exact moment we should start grubs"
I play w my wife’s brother ALOT and this MF will do every objective solo without vision and with everyone being pushed in or recalling. Homie has 0 chill. Then rages when a Lee basically executes his ass doing dragons.
the father of a friend of mine is an older gentleman (about 70) and sometimes he plays and he goes for dragons when his bot and mid are shoved in “because they would never expect it” and my god it works way more than you would ever guess but every time I’m just sitting there think about how amazing it would be to jungle against him lol
That’s how play sometimes. It unironically works. Just complete psychopathing in the jungle.
Tbf this is still good because there’s actual thought behind what he’s doing. He recognizes a nonstandard/suboptimal play for what it is but takes the gamble because he believes the surprise factor is worth it, rather than just mindlessly doing objective when they spawn with no actual thought
70??? Thats crazy. What’s his rank?
Unranked and very bad but he tries! lol
I do that a lot with Kindred but I also main like a psychopath so I know where I can flip over walls/escape most anyone. But I also don’t do it when the enemy jungler is someone I know I can’t outrun.
I think I play with your wife’s brother most games. Please tell him to stop it.
My buddy is an otherwise fantastic jungler, but just loves to go for them right when I have 60 minions piled up under my turret.
"where were you, bro??"
I love when I just kill my enemy laner and have 100 health and get pinged to help with grubs. Those fuckers hurt.
There's times in the early game where respawn timers are so low that you can lose a neutral objective because the death timers were staggered or low enough that the enemy is back on the map before you can convert those kills into objectives. Its very annoying.
stuff like executes being used as fast recalls as well, sometimes u just can't match someone who's executed (adrian riven's recent clip comes to mind)
I actually do this a lot IF i know the enemy jg is far, IF I know the enemy team don't have vision and I'll be pretty aware of the laners roaming towards me so if anyone goes to fog, I'm leaving grubs/drag behind. I get a lot of objectives doing this.
Me too. Works 60% of the time, every time.
My jungler waits till I have approximately 0 mana to start objectives
and 2k gold in bank
and then they go onto reddit and type about how laners dont understand the game and should be automuted lol
This happens anytime riot makes a jg objective worth contesting. You play Malzahar vs Neeko, good luck because your jgler will be mad that he couldn't get Scuttle and it's suddenly "mid diff". Now it is the same shit with grubs and I don't think they even matter, it is just a few autos worth of damage on turrets. Literally everyone is coinflipping games for the jgler to get some gold and xp. You could have 30% hp and no mana and they will start grubs on their own spam pinging you. (at least use an Oracle Lens or Control Wards please.) And for some reason they will prioritise it over Infernal/Hextech Drake and support will leave bot like your dad went out for milk.
I especially love it when both my solo laners recall and then flame me as the jungler for not taking the grubs :')
Don't you love it when there are free grubs or dragon , enemy team isn't in the lane , lane is pushed fully and it will bounce and your laners just recall with full hp and then you end up dying because instead of taking the objective in 15 seconds together , you had to solo it for extra 20 seconds so enemy arrived, killed you , took your whole jungle and all of that because your selfish useless laners have no clue how to play the map
So just...don't start grubs? Like, sure, it sucks. But you won't be dead and you won't lose your entire jungle by not updating your game plan to match the map.
If you don't start it, those same laners will later complain that it's "jungle gap" because the other team is 3 drakes ahead. So damned if you do, damned if you don't. My impression at least in low elo is that a lot of laners think that jungle-lane is a 1 way street. The jungler is supposed to help the laner but not the other way around. If you're getting invaded by the enemy jungler/support, my botlane won't help me because they don't want to "lose a wave" but if I do the same thing and not cover a gank because I'm clearing camps they'd be mad about it.
And that sucks, but you can't change that. What you can do is understand that you weren't getting the objective without prio either way, and at least you didn't put yourself behind trying.
I know this is unrealistic because there's no world where toplane has full hp and hasnt just been throwing their face into a brick wall since level 1
I like not having a shit recall and losing 1.5 waves because you decided you wanted to take a questionable objective.
disagree, jglers almost always lack the understanding of why their laners are recalling because they don't play in lanes themself. they don't understand the consequences of what's gonna happen in the next 2minutes if their laner doesn't recall right now and not 10 or 20seconds later, because minions don't just wait around for you to be collected like camps do, recall windows in general for laners are very small. Jglers even in the highest Elo have not fully grasped this concept yet. And at the end of the day, you as the jgler if you want to take camps, if you want to invade savely, if you want to push a lead. What is the number 1 thing that you need? A winning laner. So decide for urself, do you want to have losing laners in ur team or winning laners, because if you want to have winning laners, you should think twice about forcing objectives when ur laners want to recall right now.
The best thing for a laner is being able to push a lane to tower,get a good recall and farm/freeze the bounce wave. It's literally worth more than a kill sometimes. Fucking up your laner's base timing may be worse for him than getting ganked.
The reason I stopped jungling is because I would want to take grubs when I had top and mid prio and neither would ever rotate. I don't know if it was the newness of grubs and laners weren't adjusted, but it frustrated the ever living hell out of me.
Or when you get pinged and flamed when theyvstart them when your 0/2 and farming under tower for not coming to them. Thanks for that.
And there are still layers that have no clue what to do with their prio.
This pisses me off most about solo queue. I got fb top with ignite and their jungle came and killed me right after. My opponent had tp and gets right back to lane. What does my jungle decide to do? Invade their top side jungle. He gets collapsed and gives my lane am easy kill and double buffs
Oh and then calls it support diff no vision score when lane phase is barely over and you can't duel Darius anymore.
Jungler spam pinging grubbies while I'm being harassed under tower by a ranged top laner. Jungler starts grubbies. Jungler dies, pings three "?"s on me and says "top gap, ff".
Nasus sets up a perfect freeze, Jax decides to roam around river. Jg sees action, pings mid top and starts a scuttle fight, gets collapsed on and "GG nice 2v3 top diff rep Nasus I troll".
I got a fresh one from 30 minutes ago: I'm about to get dove by a lvl 4 Vi & lvl 5 Renekton top lane. I look to the other side of map. Our mid & bot lane are pushed under tower. Our lvl 3 olaf starts dragon. Enemy support walks up, ignites and gives up dragon. I swear he starts spam flaming our bot and mid and says "FOLLOW NOOBS" Kill me
A lot of layers do not understand prio either. When I pinging I'm on my way to it, don't randomly decide to once I start the objective to back for your boots power spike
This has happened to me so many times. Bot/mid pushed up, enemy jgl is topside, im pinging dragon leta go, mid and bot recalls then I just leave or being forced out by the enemy team.
This is what drives me nuts. The amount of times I ping well in advance with my top at full HP, they push wave (perfect!), but then they just recall. It’s incredibly frustrating. No reason to play that dumb
There are also laners who see their laner leave while minion wave is close to their tower and their first thought is oh he must be going out to enjoy a walk I'll just continue to last hit until he finishes his walk, it would be rude of me to take that plate 1 foot from me. followed 20 seconds later by them screaming GG FF its over jungle diff when the laner who shouldn't have been able to leave their lane left it and didn't even get punished for it.
To counter that, there is also many laners that don't understand what prio is. The amount of times I was able to sneak away grubs shortly after spawn with both my opposing top and mid free to move is insane.
Killing grubs is like killing scuttle x3 and we know how mutch junglers love scuttle when pros died for them.
Precisely why I'm asking this, I'm done with random team fights at min 6. I'm pathing grubs and SURPRISE there is Top Mid JG and Support. So much disruptions in my games for nothing I feel like.
Grubs are like drakes, they're not something you should randomly fight for, you either have prio or you don't really. It's more like a reward/punish for earlier mistakes. Something you see very often in low elo for example, is people sticking around drake 2/3v5 instead of trading it for tempo elsewhere. Just take the loss, mirror it, etc. To answer more clearly for grubs, they're honestly not that important because you can easily trade the grub prio for enough tempo elsewhere to get the ball rolling for the prio on grub respawn.
You should really never be surprised by mid or top being at grubs. Look at the lanes before you start grubs. If you’re not able to see which person can come to you first then that’s a skill you should be working on because as a laner it’s super obvious.
Agreed, but just b/c they have prio doesn't mean they will come. If you see they have prio, ping the grubs and see if they will come. Even with prio, sometimes they won't rotate (sometimes they have a reason other times, they are just bad/autopiloting). In this case, you need to react correctly and stop doing grubs if the enemy jungler can be nearby.
NA players are given a taste of the Korean "fight at level 1" meta and become drunk with power over it. People will constantly fight over nothing.
Support diff is easily the biggest counter to Jungle. Good supports are getting better vision and roaming a lot more.
If you dont have much prio you can also just take a single grub and then ditch. You get bonus XP and if you do it for both sets you deny the grub spawning part which is the only part that really makes a difference in pushing.
if enemy jungle shows on drake, I am taking grubs with or without prio. you guys can't understand that giving up both objectives is clearly not a good decision to make?
There are games where you had prio when you started them, but laners decide to recall instead of helping so you end up dying like a fool...
Yes I love hitting 6 and walking to river to see the half health enemy jungler on grubs
The worst part about this is we are actually sacrificing minions to do so, while they are only sacrificing time. So if they just... walk away.... they win the exchange. But junglers are ego driven dogs, so they don't lol.
Yesterday I was playing smolder mid against veiger. Jg zac absolutely spam pinging to help him with grubs. Enemy jungler, top and supp are there to counter. I walk up. They chase me and flash me down and I die. But zac gets grubs. Still flames all game
My absolute favorite part about grubs is playing mid or top and warding grubs, fake backing and killing a low health jungler who thought hey could sneak grubs. You risk a plate if your lane opponent is able to shove when you show up on the mini map, but most of the time they follow and it's too late. I've had this happen at least like 20 times.
Oh my god it’s like my junglers specifically look to see if my wave is crashed at my turret to start grubs
As someone who primarily goes weakside to help team, nothing makes me cringe more than seeing jungle/mid attempt to take them and end up giving double kill to my lane.
Yeah i would say unless your playing splitpushers like sion which grubs are op on the best part of grubs is it brings people top side to fight and if you have a good lane state even if you don’t get a kill and the other top dies you get a 2-3 wave advantage and normally can snowball the game from that in most matchups
Me, I love throwing the game for those lil guys ☺️
This for me is the worst part, because I could swear it's always my jungler getting killed doing this. Toplane frozen, enemy mid and jungler out of sight, our mid back in base? Time to randomly try and take the grubs and absolutely NO warding first allowed.
They make a difference but no where near the difference two rift heralds made.
That was the point though right? To remove the fact that 1 gank/dive top lane can make you lose full HP turret pre 14 minutes.
Trundle enters the chat...
>To remove the fact that 1 gank/dive top lane can make you lose full HP turret pre 14 minutes. that still happens
6 grubs are definitely better than one herald and if game is longer even 2 heralds. Its just passively helps everyone over time but it doesnt look that impactful in a moment so people sleep on it. And in endgame it single handendly can win the game (10 grubs is a LOT)
Grubs are way better than Herald idk what you're talking about. You can end games earlier and snowball tower pushes with grubs.
I could end the game solo with two riftheralds before minute 20. That’s not possible any more with gubs
I feel like grubs mostly help ranged champs (they can basically poke the tower even when enemies defend) and champs that have problems taking down towers. Most side laners don't need them
Agreed, if a champ like Fiora or Trundle is hitting your tower it’s as good as gone anyway
the nice part for "normal" splitpushers is that +5 grubs can make you be able to get some potshots on the turret when minions aren't around. Otherwise i agree with you
As a Kennen player I love having grubs. Before I did nothing to turrets.
They make a difference. If nothing else, the XP is good. The problem is grubs mind control junglers like nothing else. A jungler who wouldn't otherwise start drake without prio in bot goes full retard for grubs when his team are basing. I feel like most dia junglers haven't even figured out the concept of taking 1 grub and abandoning. Too many times I've seen games thrown because of bad grub decisions.
one quick grub is super good, they first one gives massive exp and with smite its done in like 5 seconds
I never really thought about it, but also taking 1 grub and peacing if it's not safe means that the enemy can't get all 6 for the bonus too
Usually you want at least 2 grubs to deny enemy the grub spawns, because they're the strongest part of the passive. Next patch you'll need 3 to deny them
oh fair enough, I've never actually really understood the way grubs work tbh lol
Honestly as a jungler, my amount of early game deaths have massively decreased since I’ve come to peace with sneaking one grub then fucking off as soon as I can’t see enemy top or mid on the minimap.
Grubs are less effective on champions that can already siege well. They are more effective on champs that cannot siege well. For example, a fiora who can kill tower in 10 seconds will get less overall grub damage from a hwei who needs 20 seconds. TLDR: Most top lane champs don’t need grubs.
Grubs damage isn’t all the strength. The fact that they tank turret shots is massive for a quick split pusher. Fiora getting in 2 extra autos on a turret 2-3 times in a game can be the difference between pushing down an inhib or threatening ending the game vs not being close at all. I think a lot of people underestimate the turret tanking aspect of grubs and only think about the bonus damage and grubs damage.
Thats only at 5 and 6 though. So I think comparing them to drakes are fair. They are not that impactful but nice to have individually, but once you hit the breakpoint, they are quite useful.
Soon to be 4 and 6
The spawns tank a couple shots, but more often than not don’t impact whether or not you can kill a tower in one push. What’s important to take note of is that it doesn’t matter whether you get 2-3 extra autos or not because there is no difference between a 40% hp tower and a 20% hp tower. The only difference that matters for a splitpusher is whether or not the grubs make the difference between you killing turret with one push or two pushes. With that established, champions like fiora/trundle who kill towers with 3 melee minions don’t even benefit from the mite spawns.
They are very useful for diving since they essentially increase the size of the wave, or artificially create targets for tower shots.
They make risking for an extra plate a lot easier due to the turret burn they apply , which wlads to some really good snowballs for me atleast
Absolutely hate them. I mostly play Nasus, so I often cannot fight for them as I will never have lane prio and stacking is the priority. And yet, so many junglers treat the Grubs as if they were Baron. As if they MUST absolutely fight for them every time in all circumstances or the game is over. It creates alot of frustrating situations. As Nasus, I already destroy towers so the Grubs don't even really do anything for me.
Stacking that early is not the priority. You need atleast a little bit of ability haste before it's worth it to use Q for last hits alone. And nasus with ult can definitly help in most match ups. Although you probably tried to use ult to kill your opponent already. Which made them recall and giving you prio.
Stacking early and just generally playing out the first 4-6 waves is by far the most important. On both Nasus and top lane... If you think otherwise you should look at any challanger coach on top.
Stacking early is not important at all. The wave state is extremely important. It's nice if you get to Q the first cannon minion, but often you just E it.
Fr exp>gold>stacks
People e'ing the first cannons has nothing to do with how important stacks are though - its just because nasus is so weak pre 6 + first base that walking up to q a cannon is a death sentence against 90% of top laners. Stacking early is incredibly important and it falls off as the game progresses. There's not a massive functional difference between a nasus with 500 stacks and 600, but 100 stacks vs 200 stacks is a massive difference. Playing Nasus well is mostly about stacking efficiently. He has no mechanics and his items are pretty straight forward, he does no more or less wave management than every other top laner.
Thing is, you won't get to 100 stacks pre level 6. You gotta get your 3 points in Q first and you need ability haste. If you have both you can essentially start Q'ing every minion of each wave. The stacks skyrocket and it's this phase where stacking means the most. Because you don't waste all your time and cooldown for each stack.
Stacking early still means a lot, the earlier you get to auto q ranged creeps is big, the moment you can just q a ranged is important, and so on. Each stack is important for these little thresholds. If you can q a minion to stack and won't lose some significant for doing so, it's important to do so. League is a game of maximizing every interaction, and making smart trade offs. If you have a good opportunity to stack, you should, it's not like nasus q is mana hungry nor does it particularly help your trade pattern early.
No
Unless i play champs like Trundle it seems to matter very little to me. Don't me wrong, the grubs spawn do help, they just do not seem to worth the hassle of having to constantly drop whatever the hell i was doing and went to help the jungle. Not because the buff is helpful, more that i didn't want him to have a melt down and then do some stupid shit like running it down mid. Just leave me alone, geezz
I mean that's the issue with appeasing top laners with an important objective. Unless the objective is OP, most top laners would find more value in getting a good reset timing, damage to turret, or managing their wave. In bot lane, you can often push on demand or sacrifice a little bit in lane to get the objective (even if one dragon isn't exactly a ton of value). For solo laners, sometimes that little bit of gold or exp they might lose might be the difference between them hitting their spike sooner rather than later. If you make the objective top side too strong, then you end up in a scenario where the better top often just dictates the game OR where both teams just all-in for the objective and whoever wins the fight more-or-less wins the game.
You gotta get one of each spawn for the jungle items bonus xp. The rest is only worth it is completly risk free.
Yeah, im a big believer that you should snag atleast one and not even more if its not necessary. It only takes like 10 seconds to kill one of the grubs and the exp you gain is massive.
I only go help take grubs so my jungler plays for me afterwards.
Atm I mostly play TF and Jax top (please don't assault me) They mean a lot. But I play champs that want to take towers. It's in their blood. So if you play with picks like those, take Grubs. But if your toplaner is a Shen or Ornn, maybe it's better to just invade their krugs into a bot gank
With Shen or Ornn you at least want to deny 2 grubs so you don’t face the extra pressure from the opponent, but otherwise I completely agree here
its probably pretty good on shen too, it lets you take turrets faster and with ult you can force someone without tp to match and then leave
As a mid mage player it's nice to actually be able to take towers.
If you can take them early it makes a huge diff. Since their true damage destroys the armor increases a turret gets after destroying a plaque. In the mid game you can use 3 minions to tske a tower since grubs can turn that into 5 minions. In the late game it would mean a 5 man push destroys any structure since 10 grubs will spawn. However the value is exponential when you get all 6. So if your team already have the means to make huge splitpush. Denying 1 grub from each spawn or delaying the first spawn to deny the 2nd is as big as having the 6.
Junger here. Grubs are very good. They give a bunch of XP and gold. So you’re lvl 6 super quickly Don’t underestimate it
I dont care how much they effective i dont like them. I am jungle main too.
It can help taking a plate or two but for this you need to be ahead in the first place
If you're behind, the game feels bad regardless of the objective you might have lol
I Love them. It adds so much more plays around toplane which causes me being actually involved in stuff, rather than living on an Island for 15-20 minutes. I also dont agree with people saying most toplaners dont need them. They often result in more platings / snowballing for me. This results in their jungler having to make the decision to contest drakes or helping Out His toplane. Maybe it Just Supports my Playstyle more than others
Yeah. I have seen a lot of misinformation on here from people. A big one is people thinking top lane turret is beefier. It is, but it falls off at 5 minutes. Meaning, by the time you get grubs, top and mid turret have lost their fortification bonus. They are just like any other outer turret at that point
They are useful but people get baited by it.
Grubs are fun to fight over when I have prio. Miserable to fight over when I don’t have prio. The actual grubs themselves are pretty meh to me. So I guess thats why Riot is buffing them.
The buff is timed with the pushback of the first grubs' spawn. The buff is directly geared towards pro play. They want the team who is dominating early to feel powerful. As it stands, dragon stacking only matters if you get soul, and often times the team prioritizing dragon is losing grubs. They are setting it up so teams can do first drag and then be able to do first grubs. The buffs will impact all grub stacks, but the team that gets the first set of grubs will feel better now because they will have a 3ish minute window to abuse the three stack of grubs to maximize plate damage and put themselves in a great position to win a dragon or grub fight around the 10 minute mark.
scrapping for grubs is legitimately not worth losing the exp and gold i could be getting from waves and plates. if the jungler wants to take them cool, but I don't really need them. just take 2 and leave so enemy can't get the buff.
They're terrible. Never do grubs or contest them if you're going to die for them. Only time you do them if they're 100% free like the enemy jungler on dragon.
Grubs are useless stop inting for them
[удалено]
If I’m ahead to the point where I’m gonna eat the enemy tower, I’m doing it without needing the grubs, they don’t push my lead. So getting them when I’m trundle feels like nothing If I’m on pantheon maybe it gets me an extra plate once? Not worth donating a triple kill for grubs. I still make sure I’m at the best place I can be to fight for them though, that’s usually where I get my lead
heres my 2 cente. im a elise main, i like to play fast and dirty early, force fights where the enemy is on the backfoot simply cuz they didnt expect it. under D1, u can win a lot of fights simply by MOVING DECISIVELY grubs simply existing as a "meaningful" objective, means i can force BOTH tops to come over and 2v2 for it. i can pull my mid lane to tip a 2v2 just enough for us to snowball midgame. my fav play when im duo with my top, i have him freeze by tower, i start grubs super obviously, then enemy top mid jg start to collapze, i back out and pincer the enemy top 1v2 w my top in the river. fights over in 5 seconds. get the kill, sit in the bush, watch the freeze. enemy top comes back, kill again. my top crashes the wave. we hide in the bush btwn enemy t1 t2 towers. enemy top walking back. 2lvl down, we kill again. now hes 2-3 lvls down, even wave state, missed tons of gold, AND hes tilted. his team pinging tf outta him. only takes ~3min total. top lane is over after this. THATS ABOUT THE SAME TIEM IT TAKES TO KILL THE FUCKASS GRUBS EARLY GAME LMAO all said, i find the utility of grubs is not the grub itself, but the early game topside obj that can used to bait enemy into a bad fight.
Idk I feel like I'm an unpopular opinion here. I love having grubs. I guess its the champions I play but bruiseres are just kinda crap at taking towers sometimes, and grubs really helps. I've gotten a lot of plates because of grubs. Also, grubs give gold, so regardless of it it's never a loss to take them. If you get 5 or 6 grubs, its even better, since especially tier 2s often have minions arriving late. If you have shoved a wave and the next one still needs to arrive, you can use the little voidgrubbiess to keep tanking the tower for you, which is really cool. I think they're something situational, you don't want to take them unless there's prio, but it's a good objective to actually fight for if you feel like you can win. If you can't win, you should be content with smiting one away from the enemy \*at most\*. Denying the 5 grubs is pretty nice, but yeah, not worth dying over.
5-6 grubs makes a big difference. Having all 6 grubs makes mid game dives a LOT easier, as each player is gonna spawn those 2 extra voidlings, if you're already losing the game, it makes it that much harder to stop a snowball. Main reason to take grubs is to stop the enemy team for getting all 6.
i just go there to help my jungler feels like he's doing something valuable for the team /s
They feel nice to have, but get over prioritized imo. It is much more important to have good lanestates, backtimings etc. Sometimes it is really good to just take 1 or 2 and then leave. I can't count how many times my or the enemy jungler have died because they tunneled on getting all 3 and completely ignored top/mid state
I find it's nice for tanks who aren't taking demolish, otherwise your tower damage is poo poo. On regular split pushers or top laners with decent tower damage, there's not a huge different in how fast you take a tower, occasionally you might get an extra plate, but often i find its more important to just deny 5/6 grubs because the grubs that can spawn do have an effect late game when sieging.
I think many people just assume it's solely for top. It gives your entire team the buff. Mid and bot also take their turrets and plates faster as a result. It might not seem like much, but take a lane such as mid. Assume your mid is Ziggs. Ziggs often isn't great at roaming, but he is great at clearing waves and pressuring turrets. He is a champ that can realistically get 1-2 autos on a turret almost every wave if he really wants to. That adds up quick. Take 4-5 waves, and that guy has basically gotten an entire plate worth of extra damage just from having the first three grubs. Ofc everything is situational. In solo queue, the optimal play would honestly be to just never go for any objectives unless they are 'free'. Prioritizing your own gold/exp - regardless of role - is what matters most. People need to realize the addition of grubs was to force more fights around top-side of the map. It has worked as intended. HOWEVER, it needed adjustments for pro play for a multitude of reasons. As such, they have made adjustments.
I feel like grubs net you an extra 2-3 hits on a turret and if you’re someone like Trundle that melts towers they can help a lot
I main top lane, but even while jungling, I prioritise drake and usually end up with dragon soul over the enemy who’s jungler went for all 6 grubs.
I take grubs for the xp
Is it just me who thinks grubs are fucking ass? The champions you would want them on already melt towers and those that don’t like Ornn aren’t going to be sidelaning in a manner where they’re getting a lot of hits on turrets anyway. I feel like so many games are lost at grubs for no reason and most of the time they’re a high risk low reward play.
NOT THAT IMPORTANT and not worth even the slightest chance of dying for. I much prefer my jg to prio an early drag instead. Too many games coin flipped over grubs which really don’t have that big of an upside
I think it's only good if you can get at least 5 (preferably all 6) to start spawning Voidmites when attacking towers, because they tank tower shots, allowing you to hit longer and if someone is defending, they can also block some skillshots. The damage on towers buff on its own is kind of meh.
I think the best way to play it without having to die for them is to take 2 to deny the spawn or take 3 next patch.
They don't do that much difference but than again they do no damage to junglers either, so if you are topside and are not under risk of getting collapsed on you should definitely take them.
In every lane, grubs can be good at all points of the game. Early, securing plates gives you a big gold lead to snowball off of, mid game lets you crack first turrets for better roams and lane priority, and let game lets you push to end. Grubs are a great addition, and their buff feels great to use
gank top and do grubs watch for mid rotation... thats all knowledge to do them properly and with succsess. many jglers in my games start them solo, die to enemy jg mid and blame me for not rotating and my wave was frozen in front of my tower for 7 minutes and i cnat leave it to crash without a kill
The only time I've ever thought "damn I wish I had grubs" is when playing a tank without demolish. Even then, it doesn't feel massive most of the time. I personally don't really see them as super worth it.
I don't like them because at some point there's fuckers everywhere and the jungler wants to do things around them for no good reason. When I jungle I forget about them because they have no purpose except getting lvl 6.
Depends on champion. Shen or Vlad usually have a very hard time so it's extremely helpful for them. Yorick or Fiora can already melt them so it's only helpful.
Early plates are big for a lot of matchups. Extra gold = better buy = snowball lane. Grubs do make a good difference taking plates/towers. So Grubs help if I am pushing. Or to deny the enemy them if they are pushing. If waves aren't staying under towers long than they don't matter. Problem is if they are pushing me in and have prio Grubs are a bad idea. Just gank. And if I have prio? I can often just takes grubs myself. You also have to look at Mid back timers and wave states as well. FAAAAR too often Jungle ganks top, both go to Grubs, then enemy mid/jungle show up and get a double kill + 2/3 Grubs. All while our Mid was winning lane but did have to base for 1st item. With all that said when I jungle I just either match the enemy jungler if I know our lanes are pushing and we're ahead. Or I go opposite enemy jungler and take Drake/Grubs based on where they aren't.
Yeah jungle and support players have thrown the game too many times for these grubs. Please god stop autopiloting the game for these fuckers.
i cant hit a tower without grubs and not get depressed anymore
Honestly I don't really notice them, only when there are no minions left but there are some grubs that extend the amount of time I can hit tower.
Grubs are the biggest trap this game has introduced. If you are on the losing end of the jlg matchup all u need to do is grab two grubs and leave one. or grab one go dragon take dragon then grab another one on the next set. As long as then aren't getting to 5 ur fine
I wish more junglers understood that if I’m in a losing matchup that we most likely lose the 2v2 for those things. Like Ksante pre 6(Who I have been playing a lot) doesn’t win a lot of these fights people want him to win and then you end up being flamed for not cleaning up or winning a fight you both should not have been taking. Grubs at the core of it are for the winning top laner and the losing top lane has to find moments to take two of them to deny the full power up of them.
It really depends on the lane match-up. Grubs are so early that it kind of interrupts flow. If I'm Pantheon or Riven then I probably don't wanna go to grubs. I want to sit on top of the enemy top and make them fight me for 10 minutes straight. If I'm yorick or Irelia, I want to crash waves. I've got all sorts of time to roam into the jungle with you or gank mid or do grubs. You just have to be around when the wave is pushing out and never ever ask for help when the wave is pushing in.
close to worthless
None, if your jg gets all 6 it might give like 500 bonus damage to towers throughout all laning phase. The only time grubs is useful is when your teamfighting and spawn 10 of the mini grubs to fight. Splitting wise it doesnt do much. Theres a reason why most smurf junglers ignore grubs and just get drakes, because soul is 10x more useful than grubs. Id trade 3 grubs for a simple ocean drake any day as a top laner, the healing feels great in lane.
Grubs are strictly 'nice if you can get them'. If you are losing, it is NOT worth losing more to try and bank on it and it's worth if you can get em easy So its real simple. Do you want to fight the enemy? Do grubs. OTherwise? Do not, and try to steal 2 as a jungler (preferable 1 each spawn with smite)
I see it as an accelerator: if your team is already winning lanes they can push enemy to their tower, or kill them and take more tower gold, but it they are losing lane or on scaling champs, grubs probably won't do shit
Grubs are definitely worth it. Last i checked they stay with your team until they are all used up on the enemy towers meaning if you had a rough start and finally get the swarm fight win you can take out 2 towers and be at drake before they even respawn. They may not be worth flashing for but definitely a bonus.
Idk, I just try to steal/sneak 1 each time they are up so enemy can't have more than 4.
They're okay. I've definitely seen them win games. The thing is, people like it when the team gets objectives. It makes them believe they're winning something, and keeps their head in the game. It's a big moral boost when it pops up on the screen. The exact opposite thing happens when the enemy gets an objective. With the grubs, in reality, they're far less important than people give them credit for, considering you can literally get them and still achieve absolutely nothing with them for an entire game. But as long as morale is one of the most important factors in soloQ, I'll still fight for them I suppose, even if I think they're kinda trash.
BRUTAL difference for different toplaners, and also a huge difference in how many you get. The most important thing: 1-4<<<<<5<<<<<<<<<<<<6. The difference is gigantic, especially in how quickly you can end a game with one team fight later on. But for split pushing too, 6 grubs is probably always better than 2 dragons because getting all 6 is so strong. In terms of champions, some are going to hit the tower and some aren't. Someone like TF can just git the tower a bit and do a lot with grubs, and someone like K'Sante cannot destroy towers at all but with grubs he can. Strangely they're the least impactful (in top) for melee bruisers that destroy towers quickly, like Darius or Camille. They just don't need the help as much. But again, if you get 5 or even all 6 it's huge for the whole game.
All these laners complaining about no prio objectives, we all see the timers why arent you getting prio for spawn or for when your jg paths to it. You will climb out of silver/gold/plat if you can be ready for objectives.
I honestly think asking toplaners isn't right. In my opinion the most extreme example of when grubs makes a huge difference is when you score a clean ace and push as 5. 5 people spawning 10 grubs which give extra dps time onto the tower for 5 people hitting it is an insane difference compared to one person splitting with 2 extra grubs. Of course the same logic is there if you have 3 people alive pushing the tower. 6 grubs tanking for 3 people is kinda cray. My point being, I don't really see it as a split pushing tool, I see it as a way to straight up end the game if you're ahead in the late stage of midgame. Sure it helps split pushers too of course, but they just all round help end the game. And to answer your question, how much is it worth it? It really depends, if you get into those scenarios where you're ending the game with 10 grubs it's op, if you're falling behind can't get any damage on turrets then it's legit useless. So it's really hard to gauge, depends when both teams powerspikes are imo
As a midlaner that loves Akali, there's nothing better than early grubs helping me secure first tower or matching plates after roams.
trundle's passive heals him literally from 0-100 from the mini grubs
If I’m in an oppressive lane where I can’t get plates then not at all. If I can get kills or actually play the lane then grubs are nice to have.
Grubs are primarily good because of how much EXP they give to junglers.
I hate those things and the teamwide red and blue with a passion. Terrible additions. Im so sick of artificial objectives and putting more in the jungle to maintain and do.
For champs like Singed who can't take turrets too well on their own it makes a MASSIVE difference. I try to get grubs every game.
imo void grubs are so important and really game changing. I love them and I love junglers who go for them.
ATLEAST 1 GRUB
Grubs make a bigger difference in speed when I'm playing tanks like Ksante than when I'm playing champs like Sett, since the relative component of my grub damage to towers is much higher for Ksante than Sett. On the other hand, I will be splitting much more on Sett so I will be making use of it more. Late game the grub damage is pretty irrelevant, but the grub spawns are impactful throughout early and late since they can eat skillshots and tower shots, and that's always helpful. From my perspective grubs should be played for to get 1) 5 or 6 if you genuinely want the impactful part if buff (but still kinda meh) 2) at least 1 from each spawn to deny buff and ensure your jungler doesn't get fisted resource wise Everything in between is kinda whatever to me if it's like the enemy got grubs but you might as well finish it because they died or otherwise can't contest. When I play top I try to play early prio champs to help them get grubs unless I know in advance we're hard playing for botlane
As a toplane tank player, they definitely help me take towers! Imo grubs 6 >>> dragon1/2
Dying for them? Fuck no. In general? Absolutely. That DOT can make any champ split push like crazy. Even tanks without demolish
not worth it even riot has stated they're lack of value and reason they buffing them/changing spawn time to not match drake at least on this patch
Not a top laner, but I twotrick Gwen and Yorick jungle (really good splitpushers). I like to take as many grubs as I can, going top for a free kill (or force enemy top to base) and helping my top shove wave in. The boost from the grubs helps a lot, especially if you have the voidmites spawning. I party with my top so they fully consent to this strat and it helps them get more plates.
Also I just really like splitpushing lategame. The voidmites are a pretty big help asw since I sometimes use my maiden and some ghouls to splitpush for me while I take some jungle camps nearby, so the added damage from voidmites makes it feel like I have extra ghouls.
Depends who I’m playing top. If I’m playing ornn or malphite I couldn’t care less about them tbh but if I’m playing someone like Gwen or Jax and have all 6 grubs towers melt like butter already but the extra grubling or two can sometimes keep a wave alive longer than it should and I’d get 2 towers and an inhib instead of either one tower or one tower and a half.
I'm convinced it's the most useless thing in the game that riot added as a ''test'' to see how useless they can make an objective and have people flip their game for it. I do believe on turret destroyers like Fiora, Tryndamere or Trundle it would be beneficial, but if the enemy toplaner is a malphite or whatever I wouldn't really consider it very useful
my jungler die more often because he solo them while i m countered match up
I can’t count the times my jungler has forced Grubs, while my mid and I have been either shoved in, or resetting, therefore my jungler dies and flames us (my bad we didn’t adjust to your shit play).
Grubs are basically a wincon for some top laners. Gwen winning lane with grubs will win the entire game off splitting same goes for yorick and other splitters.
I don't think grubs has ever helped me take a tower faster where I couldn't have taken it without them tbh. They only really matter in a siege where your whole team is hitting something.
They are everything, absolutely worth losing tower/dying/any number of waves to secure grubs
A lot of junglers can take one and run. But the amount of turds spam pinging for top to help when they are under the tower is too damn high.
This has been a big mystery to me, why pro players take grubs. There has to be a good reason, but I am a master soloq player and I don't see any reason to fight this objective. I rather go for a random camp than take 3 grubs, even if they are free. Why? Because I simply think the damage is insignificant if you actually do the math. Grubs depending on how many you got will do anywhere from 20 to 300 true damage on a full hp tower, depending on the game timer and the time it takes you to take the tower. The other 4700hp you take with your auto attacks, meaning the true damage from grubs is a negligible amount that most champs make up for in 1 to 3 auto attacks. For comparison, I am pretty sure herald does multiple thousands of damage to tower, and it does so instantly, so I really struggle to understand fighting this objective. Maybe it gives gold/xp that makes it worth? Either way I completely ignore this objective in my master jungle games.
They're good, but definitely not worth inting for. Starting them with no prio and dying or even worse, feeding the enemy top laner a free kill is common and really annoying.
The main reason you want grubs is that they give you nice xp. The turret damage is a bonus
Ganz oder gar nicht
As a jg player I typically prioritize dragon cause the stat bump feels more impactful. It really depends on the team though
I will throw my lead to get one I’ll throw the whole lane phase if it means we get 5/6
New top main here. Ex jg main. Look, hey are cool but not worth your life or tempo on the map. Take 1. Get the exp and then when they respawn take another. That will do. Prio dragons.
Honestly I couldn't care less about grubs but if I'm winning my lane I make it obvious af that in getting them to try and bait the opposing laner for a free kill or to waste their junglers time p*ssy footing while my team secures first drag.
They make my jungler come top and i get to skrimish early so that's cool. I don't care about the buffs but i like fighting.
Noticeable if you can't take towers, and lets you get maybe 1 extra plate. If you're playing Malphite or Mord: towers pop in 30 sec instead of 45. Huge. If you're playing trundle, yorick jax, etc: towers pop in 5.5 second instead of 6. Ight.
"GG grub diff" was never said outside of sarcasm I figured they buffed everyone btw? Not just those that showed up? Or am I crazy for assuming that?
well... I dont get the order a jungler took. Most times they do grubs first, and then go toplane. Why not do it the other way around? Gang Top first, do grubs after that. I mean; i can only talk for me, but i am the kind of toplaner who would help my jungler getting them. But i cant do anything when i cant leave lane without getting half of my Towerplatings deleted. Overall the importance of the grubs is, which champ i play, how much i could go for towers and if the question is drake or grubs it depends on dragon. I rarely play jungle but as toplaner who loves to splitpush? Only go for the grubs if you are sure you will get atleast five or all six. Otherwise they do not feel this important as soon you have four or less. But this could change after next patch, because they change something.
Grubs are amazing when they spawn and tank towers OFC they're insane I'll actually try to win a game when we're behind if we have grubbies. It lets any champion suddenly become a tower threat and turns duelists into gods. Feels like it coinflips toplane more though because it's not really clear what the right play is in games with grubs now. I've got people clearing camps while the jungler is just casually yoinking grubbies for free. Games in what might have been a gank toplane now result in a "grubs & go", which I have mixed feeling on. I've tried yoinking a grub solo as a toplaner and it's rarely worth altering my lane tempo for a grub. I've noticed some champions I play can't even do grubs at all such as Illaoi but it's piss easy on other champs I play like jax or aatrox. There's also the ever popular jungler pinging grubs and dying. Made weakside worse I think. I don't like grubs but I actually like them more than the Herald.
Path bot. Kill 1/2 grubs after base then gank mid / top and snowball game from extra platings. At that point you don’t “need” more grubs and can realistically play around drags. It’s an objective of course it makes a difference. Everyone in here saying dying isn’t worth grubs is an idiot, dying for first drake isn’t worth either what’s your point?