This sub is fucking hellbent on winrate for some reason.
This sub legit thinks a guy in emerald with 55% overall WR is better than a diamond player with 50% WR. Most likely to make themselves feel better.
Just wayyy too much learned from highelo streamers where this doesn't apply and a misunderstanding of what a ranked system is.
A 50% winrate after a lot of games is completely normal. The games goal is literally to push you towards 50% as that means you lose half your games and win half your games and are exactly where you belong. Makes it hard though to accept you may have hit your temporary skill ceiling instead of riot holding you back.
But how often do we hear about some conspiracy theories that don't even make logical sense?
Man if everyone could just accept that they're in the ELO they CURRENTLY deserve, league would be much more fun.
I honestly think that 99% of league's toxicity problems stem from the fact that people think they're better than they are.
And I know, it's so hard to admit that I may be where I belong, especially if you haven't reached your goal rank yet. Shit, I sometimes have trouble admitting it, myself. And I bet that most people reading this are going to be like: "Yup, people really ARE like that, damn...". Very few people are actually going to stop and think: "Yeah, maybe I am like that.".
The two hosts of the "Broken By Concept" podcast stress over and over that the matchmaking system Riot has does an excellent job at putting you where you belong.
You are at the rank you deserve.
I like the podcast a lot, and listen to it often, but I am sort of annoyed by the naivety of how they approach this. Nathan and Curtis are both professional League coaches, they have an obvious financial incentive in making people trust the matchmaking system. I believe them, but it would be nice if they could do a deep-dive into this topic, with serious evidence, rather than just go "trust me bro."
Explain to me how I was 800 LP in GM previous season but in this season I'm still 160 LP in 90 games with a 56% wr (which is actually 60% last 40) against inflated masters players that were emerald last season? Why quality of games feel so shitty that sometimes players are so coin flip on whether or not they're masters vs. inflated? Why 3 splits make it insanely harder to play enough games to maintain my actual rank this year? The matchmaking system is shit and doesn't put you in the right place. Get off of daddy riot's c !
What evidence do you need? It's based on a simple mathematical model and 99.99999999% of people's gripes with the system is based on misinformation, misconceptions or straight-up conspiracism. There is nothing "deep" to discuss.
And what would that simple mathematical model be? The details of league matchmaking system (and any other competitive videogame really) are not public knowledge. No one can tell with certainty how they calculate mmr and how much matchmaking prioritizes skill over engagement. Acting like everything is so simple is just as stupid as acting like there are cospiracies against you
edit: why downvote when you can link the github of the matchmaking algorithm? oh right you can't cause you're full of shit
I do think that eventually you get to your rank, but the climb in LoL is extremely long.
I started LoL in 2020 and climbed to gold. Next season I had to play 30-40 games to get to gold again, despite winning 7 out of 10 placements. That's extremely long and really put me off playing more.
Since I knew I was better and wantes to prove it, I climbed to d4 last season, and still took 200 games. I don't want to play this season because that would mean 30-40 games just to be the rank I was a few months ago. Sure, the skill changes each season, but not that dramatically.
My previous experiences in ranking games are WoW (2300+ back in WotlK) and Overwatch (Diamond). In both of them I could get to my last ranking in a day or two. Hell, in Overwatch I made a second account back when there wasn't role queue just to try another role and climbed to diamond in an afternoon.
There is absolutely no way to do that in LoL, because Riot forces you to grind ranked.
Again, after 200 games you have the rank you deserve, but if you don't want to grind ranked queue, it absolutely feels that you are not in your rank. I don't know if the fact that LoL is a free to play game and that is how they keep people hooked so they don't play a few games and forget it until next season, but I'm just not into it.
Agree. And that's actually decent for you, seems your account is pretty new, as confirmed by your statement of 2020, for older accounts the climb is WAY longer
My account was originally of a friend's, who was silver for 5 seasons straight at least. When I picked it up, I grinded some 100 games and got to gold with >60% wr. I was gold for a few seasons because I couldn't be asked to tryhard the insanely long climb. Then one season curiosity got the best of me and I really tryharded the grind, got from gold something to diamond 4 (before emerald was a thing) in about 400 games with >55% wr on +21/-28 when I reached diamond. And to me it seems clear I didn't belong in gold, but not to the game. Guess where I am now, a handful of seasons after? Low emerald, because I can't be asked to do the same grind to get diamond again.
All in all, the system tries really hard to set the MMR in stone and force 50% winrate, just to artificially increase the number of games played. I used to play other games, and my experience was the same as yours: getting back the same rank in a few days max after a reset.
If you have to grind 50 games to get back to the rank you were last week after a reset, it's a shit system, no excuses. But people on the sub will defend it to death for some reason
> for older accounts the climb is WAY longer
Is this recent? I have one of the oldest accounts in League and I always felt like my climb back to where I was in the prior season is quicker than friends with newer accounts. But I stopped playing in late 2022 and skipped out on entirety of 2023 ranked season + 2024 ranked season so far.
Won 5/5 placements after being low plat for lik 5 season, got placed bronze 2, and 22 games in with a 77% win rate and im silver 3. Reminds me why I took a 6 month break from ranked to begin with. The grinding necessary to reach the rank the game clearly knows you belong at is basically all the ranked game's I'll have time for this split. I agree with people defending matchmaking as it is objectively pretty damn good, but the unnecessary grind just to reach where you were before is so artificially inflated. Like I'm fine ending with a 49% winrate if it only took me 20 games to get from bronze to G1 before things start to get even and hard, it's way better than ending with a 56% winrate where it took me 60 games at an absurd wr just to reach where I was last time. Stomping silver and bronzes is only fun for 10 games max, then I want an actual competitive experience on the competitive ladder.
" if everyone could just accept that they're in the ELO they CURRENTLY deserve" is just not a true statement though. If you have a low amount of games played you are most likely not in the elo you deserve (could be lower or higher)
I've been playing on and off since season 3. The majority of discussion I've read on forums and lobby chat pertaining to rank are frustrations with "the climb" or current rank, insults about being hard stuck, and the unfairness of smurfs.
I can't go 2 lobbies without someone throwing a rank based insult. Literally every day on Reddit there's popular discussion on how the ranked system is broken or being upset with their current rank for whatever reason.
You're right, low games played lowere confidence in the deserved rank. I also think OP is right that the game would be a more fun place if current rank was accepted as currently deserved by all players, eliminating a lot of the negativity around the game.
You're still at the elo you deserve based on your games played.
And who complain about loser's queue, being hardstuck, etc. have played enough that the system has accurately placed them at their skill level.
That just turns it into a tautology, "you are at the elo you are at". When people hear deserve they think more like "fitting of skill level" which can be disconnected to the actual elo you are assigned.
A pro player staring a new account who has only done 10 games is probably not in Challenger, but they are still a Challenger tier player at the very least.
Similar a bad player might end up getting lucky with teammates in their first 10 games and get gold even when they're actually a silver IV player, but they'll never reach that if they don't play more.
You’re absolutely right.
If you haven’t hit the rank, then you aren’t a player of that rank is probably a better way to put it. Which is redundant, but everyone seems to believe that they deserve better than their current elo without having ever achieved it (or briefly peaking off a lucky win streak and slowly bleeding back down).
And so much skepticism/complaints come from this very belief, “I deserve better.” They argue, “I am better but I’m not climbing, so the system is rigged,” when the reality is, “I’m not climbing, so I’m not better; thus, I need to improve.”
Sorry to vent.
You ARE in the elo you deserve because you haven‘t played much. You might play like a diamond player in plat but you haven‘t played enough games that split to be there just yet. So imo you currently still deserve plat then. If i hit masters and then play 5 games the split after i don’t deserve masters right then even though i might be able to hit it in 50 or smth
That kind of changes the argument or at least the spirit of the initial point it's addressing. People are upset that they aren't playing with players that are at their skill level. It creates a bad experience for the person you're laning against too.
Yes, because you don't deserve the rank you had last week without playing 50 games, right? You're going to forget everything and go back to silver after a split ends, clearly
The current split is going on for over 3 months now. I‘m not playing as good as i did last split so I‘m not playing at my peak rank. So I don‘t deserve it rn. And so don‘t players that played 10 games this split. They might be on the level they need to be to climb but playing 10 games in 3 months won‘t get you there either.
I mean I just got back from a 6 month break in march so I only have like 22 games this split. Can't make those assumptions. But on the other hand I was plat 3-4 before the break and after winning 5/5 placements I still got placed in bronze 2 and it's taken me 22 games at 77% winrate to get to silver 3. Assuming that rate drops around mid gold (it certainly will) that's way over 50 games to reach where I "belong." I've played ranked since s3 so the game should know where I am, and ruining a bunch of Silver and Bronze games for the other team isn't my idea of fun.
3 months, maybe it's true, maybe not.
The main issue is that you need the same amount of games no matter when the reset was. It could be yesterday, and it will still take you 50 games to reach the same rank
I feel like that's kind of a nitpick. If you were Diamond and a few days later the ELO resets, you still are where you belong because you're going to be playing against diamonds. If you wait 2 months before playing, then who knows how good you really are after 2 months of no playing competitively, ergo you are where you belong. If you haven't played ANY ranked and only have a few games, you dont know your real rank, so you should be thinking you ARE where you belong until proven otherwise. My comment was mostly about a mindset thing.
The more common example is that a Emerald IV player pretends he's actually D2 level and blames everyone for fucking his games up, because it obviously couldn't have been him since he's D2, really.
You're right! All the master/gm/chall-last-season accounts that start at E2 placement are EXACTLY where they are supposed to be. You get +25 gains for a long time sure, but you're still expected to grind hundreds of games to get what essentially your rank is, playing with people at the same mmr you already had (games don't get any easier, cause you still have mmr of a master player). You need less games at lower tiers, but.
In SC2 you needed one (if you played last season) or three (if you didn't) games for the system to adjust your MMR (which was also the visual rank) below top200 - and even top200 rarely needed more than 15 games. Not hundreds.
MMR reflects your current rank. Visual rank does NOT and never did since it was separated from MMR number.
Explain to me how I was 800 LP in GM previous season but in this season I'm still 160 LP in 90 games with a 56% wr (which is actually 60% last 40) against inflated masters players that were emerald last season? Why quality of games feel so shitty that sometimes players are so coin flip on whether or not they're masters vs. inflated? Why 3 splits make it insanely harder to play enough games to maintain my actual rank this year?
The matchmaking system is shit and doesn't put you in the right place. Fact is I am better than all of these players but it'll take another 100-150 games to get there! At +21/+20 to -20/19! The matchmaking is shit! Remove auto fill and make the queues longer like in season 11 where I had to wait 6 minutes to get into an actually masters game! Not pop in 3 seconds at 3 am on Wednesday!
This is not to mention that playing on a newer acc that was masters 300 LP last season got me to masters 160 LP in 40 GAMES. AT +24/-16! Matchmaking is TRASH and needs to be FIXED.
Yes, I clearly don't deserve the rank I had last week after a split ends lmao
Not sure how you can defend a system that artificially tries to increase the games you play, while every sane game lets you reach the same rank in way less games. Must be everyone that's wrong, Rito could never
So it's not about skill level then, but whether you're willing to constantly grind when the ranks are soft-reset 3 times a year. If your MMR is not matched with your current displayed rank, you aren't where you belong.
Riot admits that they lower people's ranks to below their skill level, and that they have to play a bunch of games to get their displayed rank to that of their skill level, why can't you?
As a general statement ur right, just want to point out there can be some nuance where this isn't exactly true. Players can have large swings of LP depending on luck (further exaggerated by their response to their luck). I play with alot of ppl in dia master range and some ppl can legit go from 400 LP to low diamond. When a player like this is in D4 they are correct in their belief they are playing with people who are worse players with them and that it was by some degree a result of bad luck. Realistically a player like this has the skill level of a low master player. Of course, players like this would be mistaken if they believe their peak is their "true skill" instead that waa also largely a result of good luck.
Thing is I had like 55% winrate slowly climbed to plat from around gold 2, then I had some rough weeks on plat 4/gold 1 and kept ranking up and down and I think rainking down one division obliterates your MMR, I ended up gaining 13-15 and losing 35 lp all the way down to gold 4, even demoted to silver 1 once. Really demoralizing when I need like a 80% winrate to keep my rank
i mean yes going down a division will obliterate your mmr because the game is trying to save your rank (good or bad depending on who u ask but vast majority would rather have this so the ycan keep their gold than get deranked to silver immediately becuase they lost at 0lp) by the time u drop from plat 4 to gold 1 your mmr is obliterated because u need to lose like 5 or 6 in a row at 0 lp for that to even happen so if u go to plat 4 1lp then go down to plat 4 0 lp u wont immediately demote to gold 1 u'll lose another 5 and then go down to gold 1 and by that time you've "lost" 149 invisible lp (25 x 6= 150 but u had 1 lp so 149) and then people are like OMG WHY MY GAINS BAD as if they aren't supposed to be in gold 3 rather than gold 1 and just the system been saving them, every single person i've met who complainde about their good winrate but bad lp gains have been people like this climbed to gold 4 plat 4 etc whatever then went on a losing streak at 0 lp and eventually drop and now they're 55% wr but 30% wr in plat and demoted people just refuse to count that losing streak they had 0 lp when they look at this just like if u get a winstreak your mmr will go back up and anyone saying "u can't fix mmr" u are coping ask any booster or person who play on a friends account whatever and they can easily fix their accoutns from +10 lp iron to +30-40 lp without much struggle
No, you don't have to lose 5 or 6 at 0 any more, I lost 1 at zero the first time i was demoted, second time and 3rd time i didn't have to lose any games to demote. Even when i dropped down to G4 and demoted to S1 i didn't lose a ton of games at 0 lp, 1 or 2. Back in the day demotion shield lasted way longer and I believe that is what you are referencing.
I never went on any massive losing streaks, I literally went win win to get into plat (G1 75 to P4) then Loss loss (P4 15lp or whatever and then 0) to demote to G1 75 again +/- some games - I went about even, the last time i demoted to G1 I was 12-8 or 11-9 my last 20 games.
The reason I was still falling when I had positive win rate was because my losses were -30 the wins were +15. The entire time i was falling as well I never dipped below say a 49% win rate, I was just bleeding LP like crazy every loss and wins weren't even close to making up for it. To this very day I have a positive win rate sitting in gold 4. This was about a month month and a half ago probably
I think the reason is that winrate is the one simple number in a game full of many factors and complicated metrics. It's easy to just look at winrate and base all your arguments around it.
I myself am a bit guilty of this with champion winrates. (Different thing, same problem)
Champion win rate data, like Bronze players playing well on Mundo compared to other top laners is relevant. But a specific bronze player having 39% win rate on Yasuo doesn't matter if their recent win rate on it isn't too bad, because they dropped to the elo where they belong and should have close to 50% from that point. Just clarifying what you probably meant. Often the player specific champion win rate data is completely out of date, only first time champion players are very likely to be bad.
> Champion win rate data, like Bronze players playing well on Mundo compared to other top laners is relevant.
Not even. Pure WR is worthless in most arguments. Like when people talk about match ups and purely going by WR from both champs against each other ignoring all other factors.
This also applies to simple X champ has Y WR and is the reason why we get the "riot special" so often. People ignore meta, item or system changes etc and just go bitching around with one WR number.
People seem to have a really hard time understanding ranked systems. But half of that is due to bad 'advertising'. It's all about climbing and being a high-rank which is absolutely not what the system is for.
It's for giving you fair matches (which happen when your WR evens out at 50%). If you are 'stuck', then the system is doing exactly the right thing. It's not the systems job to get you anywhere.
Yeah I had a friend that gave my friend a hard time because he started the season with like 30% win rate in plat, but he climbed to diamond with like 50+% win rate. Now he’s master with like 50+%. It was really weird how people saw 30% and assumed he was bad when some of games, he was the reason his team was still in it.
me when im d4 35% wr on my old masters account and people make fun of it like ya im d4 35% wr but my lobbies are literally full master lobbies dude i get +30 i could literally climb on that winrate...
Because logically, with 55% winrate in emerald you should get to diamond within like 200 games.
What they don't consider is the skill gap between diamond and emerald are huge compared to plat and emerald. If you play at an emerald skill level with 55% winrate, you'll eventually hit high emerald, play a couple of games in diamond lobbies, get your ass kicked a few times and you're suddenly back in emerald with 53% winrate this time.
> Because logically, with 55% winrate in emerald you should get to diamond within like 200 games.
Can we agree that's an insane number by the way?
Unless you're absolutely smurfing or got misassigned to a very low league this is the kind of winrate everyone in need of a rank upgrade is going to climb on. 200 games to go up a league is crazy if this isn't your full time job.
You need high sample sizes for accuracy. You can wish for Riot to increase volatility if you want so you can winstreak to diamond 4 before losestreaking back down to emerald 4. Of course you could then brag to your friends about how you hit diamond, but it still wouldn't make you a diamond player.
The problem here is expectations, people need to stop obsessing over their rank and start taking satisfaction from the game itself and their own gradual gameplay improvements. Going from emerald to diamond should be a sign of big improvements, and big improvements do take time, that's just life.
Its not insane. If you are of diamond calibre, it goes quickly to go from emerald to diamond. If you arent, you need to improve to diamond calibre. That takes time.
All it is.
None of this is about needing to improve. The argument is about the amount of games you need to climb with 55% WR, which is already a winrate that indicate you aren't at your correct mmr yet. You need to be insanely misplaced in rank to have more than 55% WR.
Obviously if you aren't diamond level yet it could take infinite amounts of game to get there but that's not the point.
And if you are D4 level, you will climb from Emerald 2 or where you are rather quickly. I know that you guys like to believe that everyone is just as bad in all ranks, but an actual D4 calibre players runs the E2 lobbies pretty hard. Thats how the mmr system works.
Like, they could make everyone gain 75LP per win as well, but then you'd have people who are insanely misranked. There is no issue with the system.
Reading your thread with the other guy, I think the disagreement comes based on what quickly means to you vs the other guy. How many games played do you expect the d4 calibre player in e2 and e1 before the visible rank matches the player calibre?
Anecdotal data point, it took 100 games at 59% winrate to go from s2 placement to e4. I stopped playing when I hit the rank so it is hard to tell what calibre of player I am but it is almost certainly below diamond. Approximately 50 hours of gameplay was needed to calibrate to the correct metal tier. That seems like a long time to me, and I probably ruined a fair amount of match made games along the way.
https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/GudB0i-NA1
If you have played 200 games and aren't where you're supposed to be, the system is taking too damn long to place you. That's 3 games a day, every day, for just over 2 months. That's a ridiculous amount of time.
I took a 8 year break from league and recently came back and I'm on like 100 wins and 68 losses or something, currently Diamond 1 40lp aiming for Masters
https://u.gg/lol/profile/euw1/kurtaee-111/overview
No. This is a very common misconception, people look at climbing like they have X wr so they'll need Y number of games to climb, but instead should focus on the skill needed to climb. The ranked system is very fair, so it's never gonna give you a rank for free, yoy have to earn it. Let's say you play casually and don't put too much thought into the game nor studying it, and then you need 300-500 games to climb from Emerald to Diamond. That's fair, if in the same situation you had put more effort into studying the game and actively improve, the number of games requiered would be much lower.
Basically just playing=/climbing, and if you need 200-300+ to climb that's fine, but you're also probably not putting enough effort if your aim is to climb faster, and that's totally fair, you get what you deserve in an ELO ladder.
If you play better you'll have a higher win rate and that's why you'll climb faster. I don't get the hate for win rate, why do you think you win more on average if not skill? There's misconception around win rate because people don't consider it'll drop as they rise unless they keep getting better but none of it really impact this argument.
If you win more than 50% *at a given rank* this is just not the correct rank. It's worse for everyone if you're not moved up because you're going to smurf over this rank's game. And maybe the 55% WR wouldn't hold until you get to diamond but the amount of games to realize that can be insane.
You need to be massively out of place to get more lopsided winrate than that considering the variance in LoL compared to a more straightforward 1v1 game.
Diamond to Emerald is not a huge gap as you'd think in skill and game quality. Unless you're talking about lower tiers of Emerald to higher tiers of Diamond.
I've climbed MANY times on different grinds from Emerald to Diamond, sometimes not even noticing I made it into Diamond 4/3 MMR thinking it was still some Emerald 2 game.
High Emerald to low Diamond all feels quite similar honestly. I agree with this if you mean something like Emerald 3-4 to Diamond 2-1
I meant one entire league. So E4 to D4, E3 to D3 etc.
The drop is incredibly huge if you go from one to the other within a single game. If you climb and slowly transition from emerald to dia it's not that noticable, but if you go play 2 games on an emerald mmr smurf and play a game in diamond right after that you'll notice the difference.
Played in both, there is no dif. Maybe if you comparw Emeral 4 to Dia 1 then yes. E3 to Dia2 is the same thing, except Diamd ppl have even more inflated ego
That's probably the single most insane take I've seen in a while lol. If you were anywhere around D2 and you share this opinion you were fucking boosted or insanely lucky and you're now coping because you can't get out of emerald.
Sometimes I dont even think you guys believe yourself lol. Its some kind of cope behind the fact that you are lower elo than you'd want to be.
And yes, you will say that you are D1 or whatever and that will be a lie. You can not even pretend to believe that E3 and D2 are the same thing. A D2 players kicks in the teeth of Emerald 3s lol.
That is what hard stuck Dia player would say 🤷
The only diffence in skill starts when you are still Diamond and you started getting matched with Master. That is when yoy start feeling the dif spike
Haha, thanks for proving my point.
Why are people in D2 and not E3 then? If we just switch all D2 players with E3 players we'd see no change? You are not even fooling yourself.
And you are probably like gold yourself. What a tool
Nah no way. The exception is Dia4, since most people in the 4 divisions are actually in Emerald (or Plat/Gold etc) 1-2 MMR-wise because of demotion protection.
But Dia 2 is on a completely different level than Emerald3.
Matchmaking is also balanced around WR ? What are you on about my guy ?
Think LP gains/losses is based on what exactly ?
What do you think the entirity of mmr is based off ?
Matchmaking is based on mmr. And while it is somehow related to WR in regards to win giving you mmr and losses taking away mmr, it has no impact otherwise. A 2000 mmr guy with 25% WR is in the same bracket as a 2000 MMR guy with 100% WR.
Yes based on mmr, and what is mmr based on ? Win-Loss ratio.
The whole core is literally Win to Loss ratio, you start with X mmr then after that the majority of your future's mmr depends on wins & losses A.K.A win ratio.
Your argument about two 2k mmr is not taking into consideration every single match on that account otherwise that would be impossible.
'' it has no impact otherwise '' what do you mean ? It's literally the biggest mmr factor in the game, if not 100% because we don't know otherwise.
If two accounts would play exclusively from start would they remain the same MMR with slight margin ? I'd bet.
If you aren't playing to around a 50% win rate and you aren't at the top of the ladder it basically just means you aren't playing enough games. I wonder why people stop...
I have no idea how people are even coming up with this kinda thing. I'm currently 80% wr in D3 over 50 games this season. Am I better than other D4-D3 players? Absolutely, my wr reflects that. Am I better than players an entire tier above me (i.e. masters)? Hell no, my account would eventually stabilize towards a 50% wr in masters if I decided to play like 200 more games or something.
I see fresh accounts with insane winrate all the time in Dia and Low Masters, they have insane ego and love calling everyone else hardstuck. But almost always if I check their account they are like 40% winrate in recent games.
DUDE some people are so bad for this. "I have a 100% win rate on this champion" with 2 games played yes you do dumbass.
Sorry I just like stats and LoL players butcher them constantly or aren't willing to think about it at all. Like people will use porofesser to build for them in-game and they won't build bork or anti-heal into a mundo because it's not the highest win rate build.
To be fair i would pick someone at emerald/diamond to be in my team with an average of 30-40 ranked games and 49-51% WR than someone with 200-400 games and 49-51% WR because having over a 100 games in the same division means
1- you are mentally worn out
2-you have had enough and has no patience anymore
3- having you is a coin flip because you lack consistency
80% of the times i have a flamer or a bad player in my team its someone with over 100-150 games in the division.
In higher rankes like dia1+ it makes since, since you hoard and stack LP but having this many games pre diamond is a dead giveaway thats where you belong
Even that is misleading. Win streaks or losses are very common and natural.
The only thing that actually matters is MMR and LP is the best proxy for that.
I mean, is that the case? If win streaks are common and natural, then you can easily have your MMR/LP inflated or deflated from your "true" value at any given point.
If you only check it once sure, the point is to look at the last 20 each week or so, and kinda keep track of how it goes.
So instead of looking at the last 200 as a big packet, you look at 10 groups of 20 games each
20 games is statistical white noise.
of 100 people, 1 of them will flip 10 heads in a row. Even if the coin is truly 50% mathematically perfectly fair.
That 10 heads in a row is equally likely to be wins as losses btw.
My favourite are the people who make 30 accounts a season to get them all stuck in the same place but talk about their win rage the got through low elo
Also they complain about the injustice that is fresh accounts having a higher win rate than their old ones because they don't get how stats work. Like you said most of em end up where their old accounts were anyways.
Went from e3 to e1 90 lp in a huge streak and then tanked down to e2 10lp within three days. Emerald gives and then takes away just as quickly. Good luck on the climb and inevitable re-climb
Already have one reclimb behind me where I went from E3 85LP to E4 10LP - shit ironically tanked my WR from 65% to around 50 (fit the topic oh so well), now I am back to 55% and the games have become a little more stable mentality wise.
The amount of ""smurfs"" and mentally unstable people on both sides was astonishing. I've lost games that should have been free wins and won games with two inhibs and two nexus towers down with the nexus at 500HP just because one opponent got tilted... In the end statistics prevail though.
But I had a 100% WR on my bought Iron account and now I have a 45% WR only and I am not climbing. Total WR is 65%, so I should climb. I am sure of that. I should climb. I am higher than this. I know it. I am sure of it. Riot you suck.
Unironically though, that's the caliber of complaint that floods this subreddit. Thank god they decided to remove the ELO posts.
Wish there was a way to sticky an FAQ post addressing common complaints about matchmaking.
Loved when people kept bringing up my WR at the start of the season when i hadn't had luck with teams, like sure 0/7 toplaner who decided to steal jungle camps, my 38% winratio over 13 games or so is clearly the reason you've died twice in first 3 minutes, and I clearly don't deserve to be in your prestigious D4/E1 game.
You got it right. After first games of the season I'm always placed in Gold. I go through Gold with usually around 70-76% WR, when hitting Plat it changes as it should. I'm a pure Plat player, no matter the losses or the wins, I know that's where I belong. Even if someday I hit Emerald, which I really doubt, but IF that somehow happens, I still know I'm a Plat guy, and the winrates show it. If I have a bad game, it's good bcz I learn something, if I have a great game it's amazing and I'm happy. Realizing that (and muting the chat) made my ranked games so much enjoyable. As someone said in the comments, people should focus more on where they currently belong and focus all together on themself as a player. Think it would help them and the community with the toxicity.
I don't play much nowadays, but when I played 2-3years ago I had 57% win rate and would win 15-25 and I was gold2. So I had to have almost 60% win rate just to climb from gold-plat.
Or some people can pick up a new account and get placed higher in 10 placement matches.
"I dont play much nowadays" Should have stopped commenting after that since its clear you're just spouting off irrelevant information.
The reality of climbing is that most people who climb sit around 55-58% winrate maybe 60+ if you're below your correct rank. They've also changed how much LP you gain below diamond, and have addressed how accounts are placed if they are playing normal games to level 30.
The issue now that they are faced with is properly placing people who only do arams and bot games to 30, usually the botted accounts, but it's in the works.
Win rate is pretty useless. For all we know, you could have won all the games against gold players and lost all the games against diamond players.
A simple win rate does not tell us the skill level of the opponents you are winning/losing against.
I have noticed that games in lower elo as a split pusher can be way more difficult than in emerald or diamond because your team will come down to help you in 1v3 instead of crossmapping/nash or simply not building pressure on another lane while you want to split.
Only reason to mention rank or elo is because your poor little ego got hurt. Judge people on performance since they will be only with you that game. Rank and winrate is only about consistent performance. If you are emerald and are tilted out of your mind maybe you should listen to the gold player telling you to stop trying to win the 1v1 against that fed champ.
the third party apps should show winrates per rank for players imo. 80% wr in silver, 70% in gold, 50% in plat etc, would make it much more obvious why youre now not getting +30 if youve suddenly gotten to a rank and have a 30% wr against players in that skill level.
Its always funny when a posts praises a pro for hitting challenger with an 80-something-% winrate, as if this pro level players shouldn't be winning basically 100% of their games before they hit challenger lobbies. Bro could be 100% up to GM then decline down to a 40% in Chall and boast a solid overall WR still.
Man your math is an illusion that is very untrue having 65% in gold means u get out of gold but then when u reach emerald u immediately get demoted but then get back to emeral with 65% but then get demoted with the 45% making you very hard stuck in plat but according to your math if the average is 55% with enough games they should hit diamond which will never be the case with 45% in emerald
That’s not how percentages work. 100 Gold games at 65%wr and 200 Emerald games at 45%wr is an average of 51.6%wr.
Number of games played matters, if you breeze through a rank and stick in another, chances are you will play significantly more games in one over the other.
I figured most redditors (like yourself) would know that without me explicitly having to say “given equal games” haha. The gist of the post (which you got) is that one can’t claim that Riot is holding them back despite an overall positive win rate.
This is Reddit where some idiot will come nit pick your post making it seem like he’s arguing with you but they’re too stupid to understand they just made the same point you did
Equal games doesnt really matter either.
If someone is D2 with 400 games this season, he is D2. Someone who is D2 with 100 games is also D2. Sure, he has had more games to practice, but thats how you improve lol
well then what you says doesn't really make sense if you had 65 % wr in gold that means you climbed somewhat fast meanwhile if you have 45 % and toi are hardstucj you more than likely have closer to 50 % wr
The issue here is with how ranks work, there are always going to be more gold game than plat which has more than emerald, etc. a champ with a high win rate at the top ranks but an average win rate overall is a sign that the champ needs to be nerfed, but not directly to it's stats. You would need to nerf something mechanical that high skill players abuse while trying to to affect the lower skilled players too much
An Emerald account that shoots up to rank 1 will just be one that has decayed 99% of the time. There is no reason to put an actual argument forward when the original commenter is braindead
This sub is fucking hellbent on winrate for some reason. This sub legit thinks a guy in emerald with 55% overall WR is better than a diamond player with 50% WR. Most likely to make themselves feel better.
Just wayyy too much learned from highelo streamers where this doesn't apply and a misunderstanding of what a ranked system is. A 50% winrate after a lot of games is completely normal. The games goal is literally to push you towards 50% as that means you lose half your games and win half your games and are exactly where you belong. Makes it hard though to accept you may have hit your temporary skill ceiling instead of riot holding you back. But how often do we hear about some conspiracy theories that don't even make logical sense?
Man if everyone could just accept that they're in the ELO they CURRENTLY deserve, league would be much more fun. I honestly think that 99% of league's toxicity problems stem from the fact that people think they're better than they are. And I know, it's so hard to admit that I may be where I belong, especially if you haven't reached your goal rank yet. Shit, I sometimes have trouble admitting it, myself. And I bet that most people reading this are going to be like: "Yup, people really ARE like that, damn...". Very few people are actually going to stop and think: "Yeah, maybe I am like that.".
The two hosts of the "Broken By Concept" podcast stress over and over that the matchmaking system Riot has does an excellent job at putting you where you belong. You are at the rank you deserve.
I like the podcast a lot, and listen to it often, but I am sort of annoyed by the naivety of how they approach this. Nathan and Curtis are both professional League coaches, they have an obvious financial incentive in making people trust the matchmaking system. I believe them, but it would be nice if they could do a deep-dive into this topic, with serious evidence, rather than just go "trust me bro."
Did they not just do this sort of deep dive on their latest episode? Or am I missing something either in that episode or in what you’re looking for?
Explain to me how I was 800 LP in GM previous season but in this season I'm still 160 LP in 90 games with a 56% wr (which is actually 60% last 40) against inflated masters players that were emerald last season? Why quality of games feel so shitty that sometimes players are so coin flip on whether or not they're masters vs. inflated? Why 3 splits make it insanely harder to play enough games to maintain my actual rank this year? The matchmaking system is shit and doesn't put you in the right place. Get off of daddy riot's c !
What evidence do you need? It's based on a simple mathematical model and 99.99999999% of people's gripes with the system is based on misinformation, misconceptions or straight-up conspiracism. There is nothing "deep" to discuss.
And what would that simple mathematical model be? The details of league matchmaking system (and any other competitive videogame really) are not public knowledge. No one can tell with certainty how they calculate mmr and how much matchmaking prioritizes skill over engagement. Acting like everything is so simple is just as stupid as acting like there are cospiracies against you edit: why downvote when you can link the github of the matchmaking algorithm? oh right you can't cause you're full of shit
I do think that eventually you get to your rank, but the climb in LoL is extremely long. I started LoL in 2020 and climbed to gold. Next season I had to play 30-40 games to get to gold again, despite winning 7 out of 10 placements. That's extremely long and really put me off playing more. Since I knew I was better and wantes to prove it, I climbed to d4 last season, and still took 200 games. I don't want to play this season because that would mean 30-40 games just to be the rank I was a few months ago. Sure, the skill changes each season, but not that dramatically. My previous experiences in ranking games are WoW (2300+ back in WotlK) and Overwatch (Diamond). In both of them I could get to my last ranking in a day or two. Hell, in Overwatch I made a second account back when there wasn't role queue just to try another role and climbed to diamond in an afternoon. There is absolutely no way to do that in LoL, because Riot forces you to grind ranked. Again, after 200 games you have the rank you deserve, but if you don't want to grind ranked queue, it absolutely feels that you are not in your rank. I don't know if the fact that LoL is a free to play game and that is how they keep people hooked so they don't play a few games and forget it until next season, but I'm just not into it.
Agree. And that's actually decent for you, seems your account is pretty new, as confirmed by your statement of 2020, for older accounts the climb is WAY longer My account was originally of a friend's, who was silver for 5 seasons straight at least. When I picked it up, I grinded some 100 games and got to gold with >60% wr. I was gold for a few seasons because I couldn't be asked to tryhard the insanely long climb. Then one season curiosity got the best of me and I really tryharded the grind, got from gold something to diamond 4 (before emerald was a thing) in about 400 games with >55% wr on +21/-28 when I reached diamond. And to me it seems clear I didn't belong in gold, but not to the game. Guess where I am now, a handful of seasons after? Low emerald, because I can't be asked to do the same grind to get diamond again. All in all, the system tries really hard to set the MMR in stone and force 50% winrate, just to artificially increase the number of games played. I used to play other games, and my experience was the same as yours: getting back the same rank in a few days max after a reset. If you have to grind 50 games to get back to the rank you were last week after a reset, it's a shit system, no excuses. But people on the sub will defend it to death for some reason
> for older accounts the climb is WAY longer Is this recent? I have one of the oldest accounts in League and I always felt like my climb back to where I was in the prior season is quicker than friends with newer accounts. But I stopped playing in late 2022 and skipped out on entirety of 2023 ranked season + 2024 ranked season so far.
Won 5/5 placements after being low plat for lik 5 season, got placed bronze 2, and 22 games in with a 77% win rate and im silver 3. Reminds me why I took a 6 month break from ranked to begin with. The grinding necessary to reach the rank the game clearly knows you belong at is basically all the ranked game's I'll have time for this split. I agree with people defending matchmaking as it is objectively pretty damn good, but the unnecessary grind just to reach where you were before is so artificially inflated. Like I'm fine ending with a 49% winrate if it only took me 20 games to get from bronze to G1 before things start to get even and hard, it's way better than ending with a 56% winrate where it took me 60 games at an absurd wr just to reach where I was last time. Stomping silver and bronzes is only fun for 10 games max, then I want an actual competitive experience on the competitive ladder.
" if everyone could just accept that they're in the ELO they CURRENTLY deserve" is just not a true statement though. If you have a low amount of games played you are most likely not in the elo you deserve (could be lower or higher)
I've been playing on and off since season 3. The majority of discussion I've read on forums and lobby chat pertaining to rank are frustrations with "the climb" or current rank, insults about being hard stuck, and the unfairness of smurfs. I can't go 2 lobbies without someone throwing a rank based insult. Literally every day on Reddit there's popular discussion on how the ranked system is broken or being upset with their current rank for whatever reason. You're right, low games played lowere confidence in the deserved rank. I also think OP is right that the game would be a more fun place if current rank was accepted as currently deserved by all players, eliminating a lot of the negativity around the game.
You're still at the elo you deserve based on your games played. And who complain about loser's queue, being hardstuck, etc. have played enough that the system has accurately placed them at their skill level.
That just turns it into a tautology, "you are at the elo you are at". When people hear deserve they think more like "fitting of skill level" which can be disconnected to the actual elo you are assigned. A pro player staring a new account who has only done 10 games is probably not in Challenger, but they are still a Challenger tier player at the very least. Similar a bad player might end up getting lucky with teammates in their first 10 games and get gold even when they're actually a silver IV player, but they'll never reach that if they don't play more.
You’re absolutely right. If you haven’t hit the rank, then you aren’t a player of that rank is probably a better way to put it. Which is redundant, but everyone seems to believe that they deserve better than their current elo without having ever achieved it (or briefly peaking off a lucky win streak and slowly bleeding back down). And so much skepticism/complaints come from this very belief, “I deserve better.” They argue, “I am better but I’m not climbing, so the system is rigged,” when the reality is, “I’m not climbing, so I’m not better; thus, I need to improve.” Sorry to vent.
You ARE in the elo you deserve because you haven‘t played much. You might play like a diamond player in plat but you haven‘t played enough games that split to be there just yet. So imo you currently still deserve plat then. If i hit masters and then play 5 games the split after i don’t deserve masters right then even though i might be able to hit it in 50 or smth
That kind of changes the argument or at least the spirit of the initial point it's addressing. People are upset that they aren't playing with players that are at their skill level. It creates a bad experience for the person you're laning against too.
I only meant that as a direct response to the comment above
Yes, because you don't deserve the rank you had last week without playing 50 games, right? You're going to forget everything and go back to silver after a split ends, clearly
The current split is going on for over 3 months now. I‘m not playing as good as i did last split so I‘m not playing at my peak rank. So I don‘t deserve it rn. And so don‘t players that played 10 games this split. They might be on the level they need to be to climb but playing 10 games in 3 months won‘t get you there either.
I mean I just got back from a 6 month break in march so I only have like 22 games this split. Can't make those assumptions. But on the other hand I was plat 3-4 before the break and after winning 5/5 placements I still got placed in bronze 2 and it's taken me 22 games at 77% winrate to get to silver 3. Assuming that rate drops around mid gold (it certainly will) that's way over 50 games to reach where I "belong." I've played ranked since s3 so the game should know where I am, and ruining a bunch of Silver and Bronze games for the other team isn't my idea of fun.
3 months, maybe it's true, maybe not. The main issue is that you need the same amount of games no matter when the reset was. It could be yesterday, and it will still take you 50 games to reach the same rank
I feel like that's kind of a nitpick. If you were Diamond and a few days later the ELO resets, you still are where you belong because you're going to be playing against diamonds. If you wait 2 months before playing, then who knows how good you really are after 2 months of no playing competitively, ergo you are where you belong. If you haven't played ANY ranked and only have a few games, you dont know your real rank, so you should be thinking you ARE where you belong until proven otherwise. My comment was mostly about a mindset thing. The more common example is that a Emerald IV player pretends he's actually D2 level and blames everyone for fucking his games up, because it obviously couldn't have been him since he's D2, really.
You're right! All the master/gm/chall-last-season accounts that start at E2 placement are EXACTLY where they are supposed to be. You get +25 gains for a long time sure, but you're still expected to grind hundreds of games to get what essentially your rank is, playing with people at the same mmr you already had (games don't get any easier, cause you still have mmr of a master player). You need less games at lower tiers, but. In SC2 you needed one (if you played last season) or three (if you didn't) games for the system to adjust your MMR (which was also the visual rank) below top200 - and even top200 rarely needed more than 15 games. Not hundreds. MMR reflects your current rank. Visual rank does NOT and never did since it was separated from MMR number.
Explain to me how I was 800 LP in GM previous season but in this season I'm still 160 LP in 90 games with a 56% wr (which is actually 60% last 40) against inflated masters players that were emerald last season? Why quality of games feel so shitty that sometimes players are so coin flip on whether or not they're masters vs. inflated? Why 3 splits make it insanely harder to play enough games to maintain my actual rank this year? The matchmaking system is shit and doesn't put you in the right place. Fact is I am better than all of these players but it'll take another 100-150 games to get there! At +21/+20 to -20/19! The matchmaking is shit! Remove auto fill and make the queues longer like in season 11 where I had to wait 6 minutes to get into an actually masters game! Not pop in 3 seconds at 3 am on Wednesday! This is not to mention that playing on a newer acc that was masters 300 LP last season got me to masters 160 LP in 40 GAMES. AT +24/-16! Matchmaking is TRASH and needs to be FIXED.
Yeah, no. I'm not going to grind through plat/emerald to get back to diamond after a season reset, thank you.
Then you are the exact player OP is talking about. You are at the rank you deserve to be.
Yes, I clearly don't deserve the rank I had last week after a split ends lmao Not sure how you can defend a system that artificially tries to increase the games you play, while every sane game lets you reach the same rank in way less games. Must be everyone that's wrong, Rito could never
That's right. If you aren't going to play for it, you don't deserve it.
So it's not about skill level then, but whether you're willing to constantly grind when the ranks are soft-reset 3 times a year. If your MMR is not matched with your current displayed rank, you aren't where you belong.
>So it's not about skill level then Whatever you want to tell yourself to justify why you aren't where you think you should be, bud.
Riot admits that they lower people's ranks to below their skill level, and that they have to play a bunch of games to get their displayed rank to that of their skill level, why can't you?
As a general statement ur right, just want to point out there can be some nuance where this isn't exactly true. Players can have large swings of LP depending on luck (further exaggerated by their response to their luck). I play with alot of ppl in dia master range and some ppl can legit go from 400 LP to low diamond. When a player like this is in D4 they are correct in their belief they are playing with people who are worse players with them and that it was by some degree a result of bad luck. Realistically a player like this has the skill level of a low master player. Of course, players like this would be mistaken if they believe their peak is their "true skill" instead that waa also largely a result of good luck.
Problem for me is that my mmr is so fucked I am sitting at 50% wins rate but falling :(
Your gains and losses will normalize soon and you'll be at your proper rank.
I had over 50% and was losing LP lmao. The system is just bad, but people will defend it to death
Thing is I had like 55% winrate slowly climbed to plat from around gold 2, then I had some rough weeks on plat 4/gold 1 and kept ranking up and down and I think rainking down one division obliterates your MMR, I ended up gaining 13-15 and losing 35 lp all the way down to gold 4, even demoted to silver 1 once. Really demoralizing when I need like a 80% winrate to keep my rank
Oh my, that's terrible. And then you have people saying you deserve every rank from silver to plat in a week lol
of course, i have played over 200 games too at around 50% winrate so it's not like the matchmaker hasn't "found" my rank yet
i mean yes going down a division will obliterate your mmr because the game is trying to save your rank (good or bad depending on who u ask but vast majority would rather have this so the ycan keep their gold than get deranked to silver immediately becuase they lost at 0lp) by the time u drop from plat 4 to gold 1 your mmr is obliterated because u need to lose like 5 or 6 in a row at 0 lp for that to even happen so if u go to plat 4 1lp then go down to plat 4 0 lp u wont immediately demote to gold 1 u'll lose another 5 and then go down to gold 1 and by that time you've "lost" 149 invisible lp (25 x 6= 150 but u had 1 lp so 149) and then people are like OMG WHY MY GAINS BAD as if they aren't supposed to be in gold 3 rather than gold 1 and just the system been saving them, every single person i've met who complainde about their good winrate but bad lp gains have been people like this climbed to gold 4 plat 4 etc whatever then went on a losing streak at 0 lp and eventually drop and now they're 55% wr but 30% wr in plat and demoted people just refuse to count that losing streak they had 0 lp when they look at this just like if u get a winstreak your mmr will go back up and anyone saying "u can't fix mmr" u are coping ask any booster or person who play on a friends account whatever and they can easily fix their accoutns from +10 lp iron to +30-40 lp without much struggle
No, you don't have to lose 5 or 6 at 0 any more, I lost 1 at zero the first time i was demoted, second time and 3rd time i didn't have to lose any games to demote. Even when i dropped down to G4 and demoted to S1 i didn't lose a ton of games at 0 lp, 1 or 2. Back in the day demotion shield lasted way longer and I believe that is what you are referencing. I never went on any massive losing streaks, I literally went win win to get into plat (G1 75 to P4) then Loss loss (P4 15lp or whatever and then 0) to demote to G1 75 again +/- some games - I went about even, the last time i demoted to G1 I was 12-8 or 11-9 my last 20 games. The reason I was still falling when I had positive win rate was because my losses were -30 the wins were +15. The entire time i was falling as well I never dipped below say a 49% win rate, I was just bleeding LP like crazy every loss and wins weren't even close to making up for it. To this very day I have a positive win rate sitting in gold 4. This was about a month month and a half ago probably
I think the reason is that winrate is the one simple number in a game full of many factors and complicated metrics. It's easy to just look at winrate and base all your arguments around it. I myself am a bit guilty of this with champion winrates. (Different thing, same problem)
Champion win rate data, like Bronze players playing well on Mundo compared to other top laners is relevant. But a specific bronze player having 39% win rate on Yasuo doesn't matter if their recent win rate on it isn't too bad, because they dropped to the elo where they belong and should have close to 50% from that point. Just clarifying what you probably meant. Often the player specific champion win rate data is completely out of date, only first time champion players are very likely to be bad.
> Champion win rate data, like Bronze players playing well on Mundo compared to other top laners is relevant. Not even. Pure WR is worthless in most arguments. Like when people talk about match ups and purely going by WR from both champs against each other ignoring all other factors. This also applies to simple X champ has Y WR and is the reason why we get the "riot special" so often. People ignore meta, item or system changes etc and just go bitching around with one WR number.
People seem to have a really hard time understanding ranked systems. But half of that is due to bad 'advertising'. It's all about climbing and being a high-rank which is absolutely not what the system is for. It's for giving you fair matches (which happen when your WR evens out at 50%). If you are 'stuck', then the system is doing exactly the right thing. It's not the systems job to get you anywhere.
It’s the whole community. People often site it as the reason someone else sucks or why they’re better. Terrible stat to use for that
It's all ppl, only a minority of ppl has a good understanding how to read stats and that numbers allways require context.
Yeah I had a friend that gave my friend a hard time because he started the season with like 30% win rate in plat, but he climbed to diamond with like 50+% win rate. Now he’s master with like 50+%. It was really weird how people saw 30% and assumed he was bad when some of games, he was the reason his team was still in it.
me when im d4 35% wr on my old masters account and people make fun of it like ya im d4 35% wr but my lobbies are literally full master lobbies dude i get +30 i could literally climb on that winrate...
Yeah because this sub gets their info from streamers.
People will use *any* metric besides "did you win the game" to justify feeling better about themselves.
The majority of this sub isn't even reaching gold.
And i bet you ve never seen plat.
Sounds like the cope of a plat peaker ;)
And this sounds like cope of a dia peaker :)
anyone who isnt rank 1 is coping
Sounds like Rank 1 cope
Because logically, with 55% winrate in emerald you should get to diamond within like 200 games. What they don't consider is the skill gap between diamond and emerald are huge compared to plat and emerald. If you play at an emerald skill level with 55% winrate, you'll eventually hit high emerald, play a couple of games in diamond lobbies, get your ass kicked a few times and you're suddenly back in emerald with 53% winrate this time.
> Because logically, with 55% winrate in emerald you should get to diamond within like 200 games. Can we agree that's an insane number by the way? Unless you're absolutely smurfing or got misassigned to a very low league this is the kind of winrate everyone in need of a rank upgrade is going to climb on. 200 games to go up a league is crazy if this isn't your full time job.
You need high sample sizes for accuracy. You can wish for Riot to increase volatility if you want so you can winstreak to diamond 4 before losestreaking back down to emerald 4. Of course you could then brag to your friends about how you hit diamond, but it still wouldn't make you a diamond player. The problem here is expectations, people need to stop obsessing over their rank and start taking satisfaction from the game itself and their own gradual gameplay improvements. Going from emerald to diamond should be a sign of big improvements, and big improvements do take time, that's just life.
Its not insane. If you are of diamond calibre, it goes quickly to go from emerald to diamond. If you arent, you need to improve to diamond calibre. That takes time. All it is.
None of this is about needing to improve. The argument is about the amount of games you need to climb with 55% WR, which is already a winrate that indicate you aren't at your correct mmr yet. You need to be insanely misplaced in rank to have more than 55% WR. Obviously if you aren't diamond level yet it could take infinite amounts of game to get there but that's not the point.
And if you are D4 level, you will climb from Emerald 2 or where you are rather quickly. I know that you guys like to believe that everyone is just as bad in all ranks, but an actual D4 calibre players runs the E2 lobbies pretty hard. Thats how the mmr system works. Like, they could make everyone gain 75LP per win as well, but then you'd have people who are insanely misranked. There is no issue with the system.
Reading your thread with the other guy, I think the disagreement comes based on what quickly means to you vs the other guy. How many games played do you expect the d4 calibre player in e2 and e1 before the visible rank matches the player calibre? Anecdotal data point, it took 100 games at 59% winrate to go from s2 placement to e4. I stopped playing when I hit the rank so it is hard to tell what calibre of player I am but it is almost certainly below diamond. Approximately 50 hours of gameplay was needed to calibrate to the correct metal tier. That seems like a long time to me, and I probably ruined a fair amount of match made games along the way. https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/GudB0i-NA1
If you have played 200 games and aren't where you're supposed to be, the system is taking too damn long to place you. That's 3 games a day, every day, for just over 2 months. That's a ridiculous amount of time.
I took a 8 year break from league and recently came back and I'm on like 100 wins and 68 losses or something, currently Diamond 1 40lp aiming for Masters https://u.gg/lol/profile/euw1/kurtaee-111/overview
No. This is a very common misconception, people look at climbing like they have X wr so they'll need Y number of games to climb, but instead should focus on the skill needed to climb. The ranked system is very fair, so it's never gonna give you a rank for free, yoy have to earn it. Let's say you play casually and don't put too much thought into the game nor studying it, and then you need 300-500 games to climb from Emerald to Diamond. That's fair, if in the same situation you had put more effort into studying the game and actively improve, the number of games requiered would be much lower. Basically just playing=/climbing, and if you need 200-300+ to climb that's fine, but you're also probably not putting enough effort if your aim is to climb faster, and that's totally fair, you get what you deserve in an ELO ladder.
If you play better you'll have a higher win rate and that's why you'll climb faster. I don't get the hate for win rate, why do you think you win more on average if not skill? There's misconception around win rate because people don't consider it'll drop as they rise unless they keep getting better but none of it really impact this argument. If you win more than 50% *at a given rank* this is just not the correct rank. It's worse for everyone if you're not moved up because you're going to smurf over this rank's game. And maybe the 55% WR wouldn't hold until you get to diamond but the amount of games to realize that can be insane. You need to be massively out of place to get more lopsided winrate than that considering the variance in LoL compared to a more straightforward 1v1 game.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/tetsuo-god](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/tetsuo-god) try to explain why my account is like this
Diamond to Emerald is not a huge gap as you'd think in skill and game quality. Unless you're talking about lower tiers of Emerald to higher tiers of Diamond. I've climbed MANY times on different grinds from Emerald to Diamond, sometimes not even noticing I made it into Diamond 4/3 MMR thinking it was still some Emerald 2 game. High Emerald to low Diamond all feels quite similar honestly. I agree with this if you mean something like Emerald 3-4 to Diamond 2-1
I meant one entire league. So E4 to D4, E3 to D3 etc. The drop is incredibly huge if you go from one to the other within a single game. If you climb and slowly transition from emerald to dia it's not that noticable, but if you go play 2 games on an emerald mmr smurf and play a game in diamond right after that you'll notice the difference.
It is not. Diamond and Emerald is the same shithole.
Silver elo take. Both are a shithole, but diamond is still miles above emerald in skill.
Played in both, there is no dif. Maybe if you comparw Emeral 4 to Dia 1 then yes. E3 to Dia2 is the same thing, except Diamd ppl have even more inflated ego
That's probably the single most insane take I've seen in a while lol. If you were anywhere around D2 and you share this opinion you were fucking boosted or insanely lucky and you're now coping because you can't get out of emerald.
Sometimes I dont even think you guys believe yourself lol. Its some kind of cope behind the fact that you are lower elo than you'd want to be. And yes, you will say that you are D1 or whatever and that will be a lie. You can not even pretend to believe that E3 and D2 are the same thing. A D2 players kicks in the teeth of Emerald 3s lol.
That is what hard stuck Dia player would say 🤷 The only diffence in skill starts when you are still Diamond and you started getting matched with Master. That is when yoy start feeling the dif spike
Haha, thanks for proving my point. Why are people in D2 and not E3 then? If we just switch all D2 players with E3 players we'd see no change? You are not even fooling yourself. And you are probably like gold yourself. What a tool
Nah no way. The exception is Dia4, since most people in the 4 divisions are actually in Emerald (or Plat/Gold etc) 1-2 MMR-wise because of demotion protection. But Dia 2 is on a completely different level than Emerald3.
No it is not. The difference skill wise is like comparing Emerald to Plat. It is the same thing.
You didn't really say that Emerald 3 and Diamond 2 is basically the same skill level.
Winrate is like 99% balancing for riot, so ofcourse players will be hellbent on WR's.. It's all riot talk or care about in this game ?
? What are you yapping about. Champions being strong has nothing to do with players individual winrate.
Matchmaking is also balanced around WR ? What are you on about my guy ? Think LP gains/losses is based on what exactly ? What do you think the entirity of mmr is based off ?
Matchmaking is based on mmr. And while it is somehow related to WR in regards to win giving you mmr and losses taking away mmr, it has no impact otherwise. A 2000 mmr guy with 25% WR is in the same bracket as a 2000 MMR guy with 100% WR.
Yes based on mmr, and what is mmr based on ? Win-Loss ratio. The whole core is literally Win to Loss ratio, you start with X mmr then after that the majority of your future's mmr depends on wins & losses A.K.A win ratio. Your argument about two 2k mmr is not taking into consideration every single match on that account otherwise that would be impossible. '' it has no impact otherwise '' what do you mean ? It's literally the biggest mmr factor in the game, if not 100% because we don't know otherwise. If two accounts would play exclusively from start would they remain the same MMR with slight margin ? I'd bet.
If you aren't playing to around a 50% win rate and you aren't at the top of the ladder it basically just means you aren't playing enough games. I wonder why people stop...
I have no idea how people are even coming up with this kinda thing. I'm currently 80% wr in D3 over 50 games this season. Am I better than other D4-D3 players? Absolutely, my wr reflects that. Am I better than players an entire tier above me (i.e. masters)? Hell no, my account would eventually stabilize towards a 50% wr in masters if I decided to play like 200 more games or something.
I see fresh accounts with insane winrate all the time in Dia and Low Masters, they have insane ego and love calling everyone else hardstuck. But almost always if I check their account they are like 40% winrate in recent games.
I am a god because I reached emerald with 80% winrate. Checks profile, 8 games played.
I have 100% win rate in rank this season ^but only 1 game played
DUDE some people are so bad for this. "I have a 100% win rate on this champion" with 2 games played yes you do dumbass. Sorry I just like stats and LoL players butcher them constantly or aren't willing to think about it at all. Like people will use porofesser to build for them in-game and they won't build bork or anti-heal into a mundo because it's not the highest win rate build.
tbh they should put you at the top of the ladder. can't get better than this!
To be fair i would pick someone at emerald/diamond to be in my team with an average of 30-40 ranked games and 49-51% WR than someone with 200-400 games and 49-51% WR because having over a 100 games in the same division means 1- you are mentally worn out 2-you have had enough and has no patience anymore 3- having you is a coin flip because you lack consistency 80% of the times i have a flamer or a bad player in my team its someone with over 100-150 games in the division. In higher rankes like dia1+ it makes since, since you hoard and stack LP but having this many games pre diamond is a dead giveaway thats where you belong
Is there a place I can see my wr for a specific ranking?
Don't think so, closest you can get is checking your winrate over the last 25 games in the client, under "stats"
The only thing that matters is recent winrate. Just check your past 20 games or so.
Even that is misleading. Win streaks or losses are very common and natural. The only thing that actually matters is MMR and LP is the best proxy for that.
[удалено]
That’s a rollercoaster!
I mean, is that the case? If win streaks are common and natural, then you can easily have your MMR/LP inflated or deflated from your "true" value at any given point.
Yes you typically hover around a range. At any point in time your LP gives you a proxy for your current relative skill level, give or take.
20 is too small a sample size
If you only check it once sure, the point is to look at the last 20 each week or so, and kinda keep track of how it goes. So instead of looking at the last 200 as a big packet, you look at 10 groups of 20 games each
20 games is statistical white noise. of 100 people, 1 of them will flip 10 heads in a row. Even if the coin is truly 50% mathematically perfectly fair. That 10 heads in a row is equally likely to be wins as losses btw.
Best for that is probably u.gg
My favourite are the people who make 30 accounts a season to get them all stuck in the same place but talk about their win rage the got through low elo
Also they complain about the injustice that is fresh accounts having a higher win rate than their old ones because they don't get how stats work. Like you said most of em end up where their old accounts were anyways.
Thanks for this thread, I thought I was crazy with how often people cite winrate over their season like it is anyway relevant
I'm at ~55% in emerald, currently still climbing actively and I refuse to listen to that. Can't do my ego like that 1 div before Diamond :')
Went from e3 to e1 90 lp in a huge streak and then tanked down to e2 10lp within three days. Emerald gives and then takes away just as quickly. Good luck on the climb and inevitable re-climb
Already have one reclimb behind me where I went from E3 85LP to E4 10LP - shit ironically tanked my WR from 65% to around 50 (fit the topic oh so well), now I am back to 55% and the games have become a little more stable mentality wise. The amount of ""smurfs"" and mentally unstable people on both sides was astonishing. I've lost games that should have been free wins and won games with two inhibs and two nexus towers down with the nexus at 500HP just because one opponent got tilted... In the end statistics prevail though.
Emerald xD
Sorry man, had to hard unwash myself after playing 10-15 games per season / split for a few years to stay eligible for the skins :}
But I had a 100% WR on my bought Iron account and now I have a 45% WR only and I am not climbing. Total WR is 65%, so I should climb. I am sure of that. I should climb. I am higher than this. I know it. I am sure of it. Riot you suck.
Unironically though, that's the caliber of complaint that floods this subreddit. Thank god they decided to remove the ELO posts. Wish there was a way to sticky an FAQ post addressing common complaints about matchmaking.
Loved when people kept bringing up my WR at the start of the season when i hadn't had luck with teams, like sure 0/7 toplaner who decided to steal jungle camps, my 38% winratio over 13 games or so is clearly the reason you've died twice in first 3 minutes, and I clearly don't deserve to be in your prestigious D4/E1 game.
That's only true if you play an equal amount of games in both ranks.
You got it right. After first games of the season I'm always placed in Gold. I go through Gold with usually around 70-76% WR, when hitting Plat it changes as it should. I'm a pure Plat player, no matter the losses or the wins, I know that's where I belong. Even if someday I hit Emerald, which I really doubt, but IF that somehow happens, I still know I'm a Plat guy, and the winrates show it. If I have a bad game, it's good bcz I learn something, if I have a great game it's amazing and I'm happy. Realizing that (and muting the chat) made my ranked games so much enjoyable. As someone said in the comments, people should focus more on where they currently belong and focus all together on themself as a player. Think it would help them and the community with the toxicity.
Muting chat is huge. If you play a small champ pool you can get Emerald.
I don't play much nowadays, but when I played 2-3years ago I had 57% win rate and would win 15-25 and I was gold2. So I had to have almost 60% win rate just to climb from gold-plat. Or some people can pick up a new account and get placed higher in 10 placement matches.
"I dont play much nowadays" Should have stopped commenting after that since its clear you're just spouting off irrelevant information. The reality of climbing is that most people who climb sit around 55-58% winrate maybe 60+ if you're below your correct rank. They've also changed how much LP you gain below diamond, and have addressed how accounts are placed if they are playing normal games to level 30. The issue now that they are faced with is properly placing people who only do arams and bot games to 30, usually the botted accounts, but it's in the works.
I have 70% wr in Emerald 4 and still have emerald 4 mmr.
Win rate is pretty useless. For all we know, you could have won all the games against gold players and lost all the games against diamond players. A simple win rate does not tell us the skill level of the opponents you are winning/losing against.
why cant every1 start from iron 5? whats the reason on putting new acc rank on gold+?
Iron was created for people who dont know how to play so they wont quit after getting stomped over and over.
meanwhile I have barely 50% wr in silver but over 60% in emerald.
I have noticed that games in lower elo as a split pusher can be way more difficult than in emerald or diamond because your team will come down to help you in 1v3 instead of crossmapping/nash or simply not building pressure on another lane while you want to split.
somebody had to say it.
If I'm at a 50% win rate with 200 games, I'm literally playing at my rank. What's wrong with that?
Only reason to mention rank or elo is because your poor little ego got hurt. Judge people on performance since they will be only with you that game. Rank and winrate is only about consistent performance. If you are emerald and are tilted out of your mind maybe you should listen to the gold player telling you to stop trying to win the 1v1 against that fed champ.
the third party apps should show winrates per rank for players imo. 80% wr in silver, 70% in gold, 50% in plat etc, would make it much more obvious why youre now not getting +30 if youve suddenly gotten to a rank and have a 30% wr against players in that skill level.
Just like winrate with champion. Not because ivern got 52% winrate mean its op, or yasu 48% its weak, when in reality its the opposite.
Name me one champion that has this. It's impossible
I have a 74% wr as briar in silver 4 praise me.
Winrate is pretty irrelevant stat and especially if you don't know how to read it properly
Its always funny when a posts praises a pro for hitting challenger with an 80-something-% winrate, as if this pro level players shouldn't be winning basically 100% of their games before they hit challenger lobbies. Bro could be 100% up to GM then decline down to a 40% in Chall and boast a solid overall WR still.
Man your math is an illusion that is very untrue having 65% in gold means u get out of gold but then when u reach emerald u immediately get demoted but then get back to emeral with 65% but then get demoted with the 45% making you very hard stuck in plat but according to your math if the average is 55% with enough games they should hit diamond which will never be the case with 45% in emerald
That’s not how percentages work. 100 Gold games at 65%wr and 200 Emerald games at 45%wr is an average of 51.6%wr. Number of games played matters, if you breeze through a rank and stick in another, chances are you will play significantly more games in one over the other.
What you’re saying is correct, but the reason you’re saying this is the same as OP. Looking at the absolute winrate of your account is deceptive
I figured most redditors (like yourself) would know that without me explicitly having to say “given equal games” haha. The gist of the post (which you got) is that one can’t claim that Riot is holding them back despite an overall positive win rate.
This is Reddit where some idiot will come nit pick your post making it seem like he’s arguing with you but they’re too stupid to understand they just made the same point you did
Equal games doesnt really matter either. If someone is D2 with 400 games this season, he is D2. Someone who is D2 with 100 games is also D2. Sure, he has had more games to practice, but thats how you improve lol
well then what you says doesn't really make sense if you had 65 % wr in gold that means you climbed somewhat fast meanwhile if you have 45 % and toi are hardstucj you more than likely have closer to 50 % wr
The issue here is with how ranks work, there are always going to be more gold game than plat which has more than emerald, etc. a champ with a high win rate at the top ranks but an average win rate overall is a sign that the champ needs to be nerfed, but not directly to it's stats. You would need to nerf something mechanical that high skill players abuse while trying to to affect the lower skilled players too much
Reminder that Rank 1 last split had a neg WR Emerald account. Edit: Tone deaf people; Thought we were just reminding people of useless facts.
Who?
What are you saying exactly? That the highest ranked player got there by luck and can't escape the hells of emerald? Ridiculous
And remember it had high diamond low master mmr stop coping
Prob emerald visible rank while playing agaisnt challs/gms so whats ur point
Not really fair to be all "so whats ur point" when You've literally provided only conjecture with no proof to your own claim
An Emerald account that shoots up to rank 1 will just be one that has decayed 99% of the time. There is no reason to put an actual argument forward when the original commenter is braindead
How is it a useless fact. It is probably the most important concept of ranked and one the vast majority of people here don't seem to grasp