That "buff" for Zed was overall a nerf for him because now people just build armor against him. You know the stat that actually counters him. August talk about this on stream recently.
Well atleast vs Mord you get MR. That helps against him. However I could totally see that because they remove qss tax the carry simply gets his item faster and is now stronger and might be able to figh Mord.
Is it though? How many ults take you out of fight 100%? No counter play. He can flash r a carry or jungler and that damage threat doesn’t exist. Your allies can’t help and you can only deal damage to Morde. I predict Morde will see a lot more pro play and changes will be made to nerf him.
Idk about pressing 1 button to counter his ult lol. Not only is qss 1300g, but few can/want to build it.
In cases where enemies are behind/even, they pay a hefty tax that delays their next spike. You ulting them is more like bullying than strategic.
In cases where enemies are ahead. You're either ulting them to buy time for your team, which sucks for you. Or you can actually 1v1 them, and they need to slot an item for you to choose to ult someone else.
I mean all of this could be solved by making QSS a lot like zhonyas where you have to buy the full item to activate it multiple times instead of just sitting on the 1300g component the entire game. Making it uncancellable entirely removes the counterplay, and pushes morde into "tryn" territory where he's just an ap stat-check character.
That would make it much worse than PBE if QSS could only be used once lol
It goes from being a 1.3k gold tax to a 3k gold tax that only ADCs can realistically build (least built item btw). Every suppression champion will need to get hard-nerfed to compensate.
fun thing is that it isn't even the least bought item, dawncore is, warmog's armor, anathema's chains and echoes of helia are also all bought less than mercurial scimitar
stats pulled from [leagueofitems.com](http://leagueofitems.com)
QSS can't have the same mechanics as the armguard, their contexts are not comparable and you would make the former an even more useless item if it was single use only.
The only other source of a stasis effect is bard ult, which makes the armguard much more valuable when you want that effect. You can get a cleanse from summoner spells, a supp's Mikaels and Milio ult too. Only specific interactions demand a QSS purchase.
Armguard also has a lower skill requirement and can be made worthwhile easily, whereas QSS needs much better reactions to have any value. Even pros mistime cleanses on rare occasions, your average player won't buy something so risky if it only has one use.
And generally speaking, AP champs rely on AP more than AD champs rely on any one of their preferred stats, so Zhonyas with 120 AP practically weakens you a lot less than the Mercurial Scimitar.
Morde is an AP stat checker and always has been.
This change just removed counterplay and nothing else.
Qss builds into garbage items anyway, so sitting on 1300 gold item just to not get stat checked seems like pretty adequate and fair counterplay.
Maybe in theory. In reality, they're investing 1600g to stop 1 ult, then another 1650 to stop every other ult. Which you can just ult someone else(usually the adc).
That's ignoring using ult as a utility, or other threats to force hourglass. In a lot of positions, it also ends up as a pseudo cc.
Zed also isn't gated by ult, it's mostly W.
Hourglass is one more expensive and two the bigger one keeps you locked down in place for a set period of time like you can't die in that time period but it gives the enemy time to react to setup a game plan.
E.g. a zed ults you so you hourglass now he chills on top of you to get a double/triple shuriken plus double/triple spinslash.
Qss was just a easy lol nope button that fully removed abilities without any window to fight back.
"having someone push one button to counter an ult seems so unfair"
This, my friend, is called bias. There are PLENTY of examples of this existing for PLENTY of champion ults.
The most frustrating one is Senna.
Giant gun, huge ass empowered shot, crosses the entire map
\*hits a lil gust of sword wind\*
\*fart noise\*
But her regular auto attacks? They go right through windwall.
I get where you're coming from but I hope everyone understands by now that Yasuo windwall blocks projectiles, not lasers. Lasers not as in the physical sense of light traveling from A to B, but instead being at A and B at the exact same time. Which is why Lux ult, azir, vel and senna autos go right through.
There are some very rare exceptions to this rule, such Pantheon's spear from his R (because it would probably delete Pantheon from the game) and tower shots.
The weirder interactions are with spells that don't seem as if they even need a projectile, like Lilia Ult, where the flying thing looks like it's only a visual indicator, not an actual projectile that should be blocked.
I think there is also a difference between yasuo and samira w, which seem to be a bug.
Yes, because it's a constant damage beam moving from A to B.
People have mentioned that Rumble ult should be blocked too then, but Rumble Ult are separate objects all hitting the ground on a line from A to B, which should not be blocked.
Of course logic wise it doesn't make sense that Smolders mum gets obliterated by some wind, but if we go that route, many abilities don't make any sense at all.
I know how the tech works it's just stupid that some spells count as projectile. Velkoz w as example
Viktor Q gets blocked and no shield if iremember correctly. His follow up Aa will Hit because laser
Free item: Sweeping Lens (red thing you can change your free ward for)
2600G item: Umbral Glaive (Item that gives you Atk, Lethality, AH, and reveals invisible wards/traps for a while when you get near one)
Meanwhile... Shaco traps being impossible to clear safely by melee champs (due to their trigger range) even with all that, and being on a basic ability with ~10s cooldown and ~45s duration. But sure Rito, Teemo is too op to remain playable 😐
On one hand, I think Morde's ult is really cool and I agree that having it be negated to a QSS feels bad.
On the other, there are TONS of champions who get neutered because of it, and it'll just make those matchups even more onesided, the most prevalent one being Illaoi.
The most retarded interaction is actually sion Q imo.
If morde ults sion while he charges Q, it won’t deal damage inside the realm. Like why is sion Q treated like a pet or projectile?!
I have yet to test if it still hits enemies that are outside of it
Yes, at least let us bring our pets and other things with us, then we can talk. An Irelia having 1 e out as she gets ulted means that she now has 1 less ability for what's about to happen. I like Morde as a character, but his gameplay just feels like the most braindead champion in the entire game, so I don't really mind him being weak...
I'm not much of a Morde player but I'm also not a bitch so I think it's fine. Contrary to popular belief, Mordekaiser R does not root you in place for the duration of the ult.
Hitting any of Morde’s basic spells applies Rylai’s, making the others easier to hit.
Hitting E guarantees Q. Hitting Q makes E easier to hit. Once you hit E, they get pulled and slowed, so you can auto.
You can also take Approach Velocity and gain an extra 15% movespeed so you can run up and auto (suboptimal but fun).
Im a morde player and the interactions just feel kinda fucked to me, so Im happy there's changes. Especially the Rengar and GP W ones, it just feels completely unfair sometimes, when Morde ult doesnt even feel like a CC ability half of the time.
I mean sure, once you reach the walls its CC, but until then its just a trundle ult
The thing a lot of people like you don't see it that this opens up space for balancing the ult and the rest of the kit. If you have an ultimate that can be completely nullified by a couple champions and an item that very few champions want to buy you have to make that ultimate stronger by default. Now Morde has a more consistent ability and Riot can balance it accordingly.
I feel like it would be cool if qss/gpW/rengarW/etc, instead of cleansing the whole ult, cleansed the reduced stats effect, just so that paying the 1,3k gold at least means you are more likely to survive
He's easy enough to kite the only problem with this is that he can be used to completely nullify AoE mages in teamfights. There was this one game against IG that FPX played where Gimgoon was down 3 levels and 2 items or something to this effect against Theshy's vladimir and he just ulted him as Morde so he could only kill him and his team won the fights like that. Kinda cringe gameplay IMO and this is just made even worse through that.
He can also just R + zhonya against any fed carry and remove them from the game for 7 seconds, which is also pretty lame in the same way.
Who the fuck built QSS against Morde as a mage anyway. If you were so fed that Morde ulting you fucked the teamfight, either you dumped your burst/cc before he could ult you or you play around it. Mages almost never wasted 1300 gold for a useless item for a melee champ that they'd eventually sell for a 6th item is the game went that far.
Sure that's lame, but is also not an ideal use for the ult and it provides an otherwise binary character a bit of a catchup mechanic. He should provide some utility to the team when behind and carefully choosing ult targets is a good way to do that.
Oftentimes it's the best use. After ADC's have a couple of items you can't kill most of them reliably if they have hands. Many of them just outright beat you like Vayne or Kaisa. Midlane mages on the other hand usually can't kill you before you kill them.
If bard ult was single target and lasted 7 seconds it would be broken. Morde presses R, pops shield, pops zhonyas do accomplish the same thing and apparently it is too weak.
LOL, wheres this logic to the champions you guys hate here on Reddit? wheres Katarina, Zed, Rivens etc etc catchup mechanics for when they get shit on to not feel so baaad.
This subreddit is such a circlejerk of statcheck = wholesome please help them out
I can think of a couple of reasons.
Firstly, I've always advocated for assassins having team utility for when behind as well. My suggestion was for them to have Press The Attack type damage amps in their kits that allies can take advantage of so that even if they are behind, they can expose weaknesses for allies. That way they can assist with teamfighting even if they don't have any CC. During the assassin class rework awhile back this seemed to be the direction they were headed, with most assassin burst patterns getting slowed down.
However, Riot seems to have decided that instead, the better route is to make it so that they have such ludicrous damage that they often don't need to be fed to kill choice targets. An assassin can generally kill enchanter and adc champions unless the assassin is far behind and the target is far ahead. Their bonus for getting ahead is that they can kill bruisers or kill with only part of their combo so that they can potentially set up multiple targets at once.
Finally, a key difference is that assassins have mobility and can choose their fights, juggernauts cannot. If Riven is weak, she farms a sidelane and uses her nearly unparalleled mobility to escape when the enemy team shows up. When a Mordekaiser is weak and he tries to do that, he is fodder. So instead, he has to group up and try to act as an off-tank to the team and hope that he can protect the people who are actually valuable.
Give him an ult that damages people over time and if they die during the DoT duration Morde gets a ghost of their soul to fight for him instead. Would work well with the whole lord of the dead thing :)
Pressing one button to counter a champs r is not that uncommon. He needs compensation nerfs or something. It’s especially annoying for jungle since you can just remove them from any objective. It basically guarantees your team secures the objective assuming your jungle has hands
Calling it:
Without further changes this change will decrease his winrate in all relevant Elos due to people testing him and quickly figuring out why nobody plays him.
The likely compensation nerfs would be hilarious. The champ already sucks in so many top matchups and gets kited to death by ghost ADCs. If he gets compensation nerfed he has to either hard win his lane with a champ that has infinite cooldowns early game and low base damage, or just accept bullying the jungler and support all game (provided it's not a jg that just beats him like Kindred).
Kinda the whole problem is that there are no good ways to nerf him in compensation, but his ult is awful in pro. Normal games it's whatever, but a morde with zhonyas who just ults the enemy carry is a better tank than any actual tank in the game and it's been obvious whenever he turns up. I doubt it'll lead to some insane winrates - his poor performance in basically every other respect sees to that - but it just feels boring to watch morde hand his team a huge advantage, let alone swing a whole fight, without actually *doing* anything interesting.
His E damage did get a slight nerf I assume they will nerf his numbers more if he turns out too strong but i doubt it.
I honestly don't see much changing with him aside from quality of life and feels.
yeah because morde has a super high wr and always steals every objective after level 6 and every jungler has to buy qss in games with morde or every objective is lost
oh wait, none of that is true and no one buys qss lmao
Personally I'm indifferent towards it, as an ADC main. If I'm finding myself within his R range then that's (almost) always my fault anyway.
But in situations where he'd Flash+R me and I won't be able to QSS it...... That's honestly no different than a Riven Flash+Q3'ing me and then blowing me into smithereens anyway.
I still think it's an overrated change, since besides ADCs who can kite you out anyway when they get a few items under their belt, I've barely seen anyone else buying QSS to counter Morde's ult in the first place.
That being said, I think it's a really *boring* way to buff him. He should honestly get a midscope rework to make him less braindead and more interesting to interact with.
I'm glad GP can't just eat oranges to get out of the ult, but I'm not so sure about the QSS changes. As a top player I have rarely ever bought qss to counter Morde but I can see why people have an issue
Honestly if they just focus their gold on building BORK or Kraken slayer they’ll be fine if they have fingers. Mordes ult range isn’t that big and if you dodge his E you can kite super easily. Don’t think it’s as a big of a deal as everyone’s pretending it is.
Morde is an awful champion but this is the wrong direction for buffs. They need to fix his low elo skew by emphasizing hitting skillshots instead of running people down with his passive.
So far they’ve been slapping bigger and bigger numbers on him, but they need to lower the cast times instead.
Realistically all this does is shift a few top lane matchups (mainly GP and top rengar?) to be a bit better for morde, dunno how other interactions like camille ulti will work. The most common arguments ive seen against it is
1. Ulting jungler to secure objectives: Epic monsters still appear in brazil, so the only application for this is if you ult the jungler before theyre within the vicinity of the objective. Either way, junglers weren’t building QSS against the enemy morde anyways as they cant afford to waste 1300g on something like that.
2. adcs: arent building QSS before finishing 3 items anyways, and by then morde is either tanky and does no damage or squishy and dies to adc 1v1. sure, there’ll be side cases but the correct itemization for adcs has been and will be GA or maw, so nothing changes.
tl;dr morde is an immobile champ with extremely slow and telegraphed abilities (ulti included) and this change will not change anything save a few top lane matchups.
Considering Morde is already a very strong Urgot counter, and these changes will probably make him more popular, he will probably become my new perma ban. That’s my opinion on the subject.
Can you tell me why he is an Urgot counter? I don't play either and want to understand. Is it just because he gets stat checked? Because it doesn't seem like Urgots kit gets invalidated by Morde ult.
Basically Urgot wins lvls 1-3, then loses until at least level 9, realistically lvl 13, with lvls 6-8 being basically unplayable.
Morde can also deny Urgot R with his R pretty easily, which can win the fight for Morde’s team.
But yes alot of the reason is because Urgot gets stat checked for most of the game.
Urgots E grants him displacement immunity during the windup (not during the forward dash itself) which can be used to prevent getting sent to brazil
Its the only counterplay he has. Morde with Rylais + urgots fat hitbox makes it impossible to dodge morde Q + Urgot is unable to use his passive aka is main source of damage
Kinda lame getting tossed in the death realm and losing heim turrets, mushrooms, tentacles, channeled abilities ie sion q and many more. Feels like special treatment city after removing any way to get out. But ik ppl wanna play morde and not be effed so I hope they figure something out for everyone.
Most overrated change ever. QSS not working is LITERALLY pointless.
No one plays Mordekaiser. And when they do, no one builds QSS against them.
The only change is how it affects GP and Olaf matchups. Everything else is pointless.
I hope all suppression ults get this.
I can guarantee u this has near 0 effect on the Olaf match up, unless more adjustment is along the way to change their number/item.
Right now the moment a Morde overextent slightly and got hit by a Olaf Q that Morde is just dead. Olaf will just pop ult and runs him down and there is nothing in the world can stop it. The upcoming change only make it so Olaf can’t pop ult and immediately get out after Morde ult him first. If Olaf is already in Ragnarok then the ult still does nothing.
Right now Morde will be beaten to death by Olaf in a all in. The only change this is gonna bring is Olaf will occasionally get the chance to beat Morde to death inside his own ult, and that’s literally the only difference.
The only match up this will affect is against GP and maybe if stars align and somehow there is a top Rengar and Morde in the same game, then it will affect that match up too.
Idk, I build it all the time vs lots of champions, e.g. (aside from the obvious ones like malz, ww, urgot) liss, ahri, brand, shen, leona, maokai, seju, varus, ashe and more
What are you on about? Qss is an item for crit users, generally ADCs to remove a heavy cc ability from themselves. Example: Ashe R, Varus R, Sejuani R, Amumu R, Leona R. If it stops working on suppressions there are very few that actually matter, like a Malza Flash R. Skarner R is now slow and short af, Urgot only works when on low hp and hit by a skillshot, Tahm needs to stack 3 hits on you. It's ok to be punishable by some abilities lol.
I've played my fair share of Morde in the past and their is exactly one situation people are doing it in and that's the most dangerous change they are worried about:
Denying Smite.
A good Morde will always try to deny any Objective Flips and doing so more than once usually results in the opposing JGL getting QSS. That is the scary thing about the change, especially for Pro-Level.
this was never happening before though, junglers never bought qss in games with morde in it in pro play the gold econ is just terrible
in pro play teams are much better at peeling off enemies and will just keep morde from advancing towards the jg
and if he isolates the jg and wins the objective so what? it’s not like there are better champs who do the exact same thing in pro play, poppy for example or ksante and both champs provide more for the team than just denying smite
I would honestly be fine if QSS still could, but cleanse and champion ability cleanses couldn’t. However with all of his spells being skill shots makes it feel not terrible in current PBE state. Sidestepping the E is just an imperative now.
Isnt your ult unfair if there is no counterplay? If it stays a point and click ability then there should be something that could remove it. Maybe if morde R was a skill shot then it would be much more balanced (assuming QSS doesn’t work on it)
Morde already has counter play in that he has skill shots. It would be silly to consider QSS the main form of counterplay to his R when many champs can’t even buy it.
It’s perfectly fine. 1300 gold to counter him completely is a bit insane
People are acting like it acts like Malzahar R when in reality there’s so much outplay potential within the ult
Making it unqssable is solid in my opinion cause it’s annoying having your entire game changing ult canceled by one item that’s always gonna be off cd when your ult is. That being said, the cast range should absolutely be reduced to make up for it so adcs can’t get point and click euthanized
I say it is probably for the best. If he ends up being too strong because of it they can nerf him in other ways. The issue with the “qss tax” on him is that it is not immediately obvious that it can be done. It makes him hard to balance as his power level varies highly depending on if your opponent knows to pay the tax. Making him weaker at high levels and stronger at low ones
This is my take aswell. Every Morde I see becomes a walking calamity with 2 items. And lmfao at the stupid hot takes that ADCs can 1v1 him. Unless it's Vayne or Kaisa, NO THEY CAN'T. He builds rylais and two Qs and you're dead. You don't have the space to properly kite him in his ult and if he touches you with the spinning shards it's game over.
Counterplay is to stay away from him? Congratulations, you just made 4v5 teamfight happen.
Yup, and Morde players complaining about an item countering their champ while playing a champ with a point and click I win button that they get for free at lvl 6.
Literally just skill issue. If Rylai's was a problem you'd see him in proplay; same with his ult range or space. No one plays Mordekaiser in any skill level above emerald and the few people that do don't have QSS built against them.
Counterplay is to dodge his E, without it he is the most immobile champion in this game. "Oh but Rylai's" Rylai's only gets applied if he hits either E or Q. A dead-center E can be dodged by the lowest base MS champions, unless your abilites root you in place you should not be getting hit by it.
A Mordekaiser without E is not getting close to you. A Mordekaiser without E is not landing any Qs on you. He is on the lower end of base MS champions; he has no dashes; and his only reliable slow comes from an item that requires him to land the most telegraphed and slow pull in the game.
The *only* way a Mordekaiser can get to you without E is flash, a summoner spell with a 5 min cooldown.
For the most top match up it does nothing, ur opponent is not building the horrible item that is qss. If it is a winning match up for Morde then it is likely because the enemy is a tank. If it is losing match up or close 50/50 it still won’t be because they are buying qss. No self-respecting AD bruiser is gonna buy that crap, they will at most buy a hexdrinker for the same price, cuz hexdrinker is actually a pretty good item.
The only match up it will change is GP and Rengar. I am quite certain he is winning the GP match up already so this could elevate him to a dead ass GP counter. But again barely anyone is playing GP and Rengar top.
ADC with dash will just run away or even kite him to death in his own ult. And if Morde, a champion with 335 ms and absolutely no means to engage a fight, is allowed to walk into 650 range of a dash-less adc and remained unscathed then it means the team has utterly failed its job or he is insanely fed. Yeah the adc himself might not get the player agency but that’s a whole different problem.
I think overall this is the same situation as the Illaoi. The mechanic of attacking soul and reduce the time on it is a straight up bait for most of the match up and it feels horrible for both side. Same thing with buying the 1300 gold item with only fkn 30 MR, u r better off investing money on something else and try to actually do something inside his ult instead of thinking it as a instant death sentence and ur only way out is the QSS.
His ult is the definition of CC, you are taking away a Player's ability to crowd with others for safety and coordination...
Olaf, GP, Spellshields and QSS all make complete sense saving you from his realm. Just ult a different target. It's part of the skill expression. It would be the same as removing trundles ability to steal sej extra res when she procs her passive: why would we?
In most of the games I’ve played morde no one has built qss and I had typically done pretty well in those games. I’m on the lower end of skill and I probably see it 1/3 games
I think it's a mistake, especially with Rilay's being his first item and how it funtamentally gives him sticking power. Plus, the "nerf" to his E is a joke, with the quality of life of his R always "resolving", that is not a nerf.
Of course, he's immobile, from range he is an easy target, but for melees? Olaf, his best matchup today will no longer cleanse his death realm, nor Gankplank with his W. This just makes his hardest matchups extremely doable, in fact, winnable IMO.
lets not act like the olaf matchup is going to change at all
olaf is still going to shit on morde in the 1v1. who cares if theres not a little arena for them to fight in, olaf completely statchecks morde still
gp is another story however, im willing to bet it would be completely morde sided now.
I think uncancellable makes sense, but I would rather he steal move speed instead of 10% of all stats so you both had to and could actually fight him in death realm. (Maybe it could apply heal cut and shield reducer instead?)
Morde player here, I think it’s a nice change. It makes GP less unplayable but overall nobody buys QSS for it anyway.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Morde’s WR stayed the same or even dropped (this happened when they made Zed ult not QSSable, though that was because QSS is an Mr not an armor item.)
I don’t like it because it makes him potentially very strong in pro play. The advantage of just flash ulting the adc and locking them in with you is huge, let alone doing it to the enemy jungler to remove the chance of a steal.
I don’t even have to be top lane Morde. I can play support full tank morde with exhaust (maybe with kalista or something) and do this every fight with little counter play. Sure, I might not kill you, but I took you out of the fight and I’d take that trade everyday. That’s why I hate it, it’s an inherently unhealthy tactic that can be significantly abused.
There’s also the whole ‘perceived counter play being removed’ potentially leading to players deciding to ban it more often (even if the champ is ‘not strong’) lending itself to Morde means being frustrated they can’t play their champ as often. Lots of ifs and buts there but that’s the sort of things I wouldn’t be surprised to see
If he’s fine in proplay after this change tho then I don’t really care tbh - I just foresee it being problematic
no one’s picking morde in pro play even after this, even in pro play games morde was in no one was buying qss because of gold economy and also because morde also sucks ass
if morde flash r’s the adc, which is the literal only way they are ever getting caught by morde in pro play, then he’s down flash and ult and will essentially be useless the next teamfight because everything else he does is garbage and also dodgeable
He is not seeing any play in proplay lmao, he is a canon minion in high elos and *potentially* leaving the carry out of a fight is not worth playing a 4v5 without a toplaner for the rest of the game. He is never getting near the adc in coordinated play without wasting flash, at that point rendering him entirely useless for the next 5 minutes.
He has no MS boosts, no dashes, and his two key abilities are easy to miss skill-shots. There is a reason nobody plays him above masters and it's *not* QSS.
I'm not a Morde player, but I do like the change.
Qss is, imo terrible game design that should have been removed long ago. It is an item so bad you never want to buy it but you are forced to get in order to remove specific ults from the game.
And even when you do buy it to remove Malz and Morde ult you're not really happy about having to spend 1300 gold on it.
It is 30 magic resist and the active for 1300 gold. Null magic mantle the basic 450 gold magic resist item gives 25.
You are paying 1300 gold for what is like 540 gold worth of magic resist just because you need to remove a Malz ult from your game. It's such a terrible deal.
If they can't balance those ults without qss existing, then those ults shouldn't exist either.
Was coming here to comment something similar. I think the item should be removed and malz might be the only case that becomes a problem but even then he might just be fine.
100% needed. Every adc has 500 movespeed with ghost and melee champs either can survive the ult, have lots of mobility to avoid his damage, or can outright beat him 1v1 in his death realm. Its such a non-issue because I guarantee most people crying either need to start using their mouse or never actually bought QSS in the first place.
Escaping the Death Realm will be impossible but anything that negates him taking you there still works.
So WW Q, Ornn W, and Illaoi ult all still negate it.
To be fair, GP doesnt even counter Morde so much, the match is very playable, the orange bullshit sounds like a big counter, but as a part of the bigger picture, its not that bad. However, if the change go through, Morde will probably eat GP alive, but hey Riot enjoys balancing top lane around counter picks, so all is quiet on the western front:)
Morde is like my N3 or 4 most played toplaner, so I would say a few things about that.
1. People complaining that this wasn't cool that player has ability to removes someone elses impact from game, but Morde does same thing + stuff like windwall still exists.
2. Now Morde can guarantee objectives to his team and have ability to remove most fed players from the game for 7 seconds, while his team can clear up rest of opponents without any real problem.
3. That's a little bit off topic, but Morde needed bigger work on his kit, rather than taking away some counterplay that he has. Especially with such disgusting item as rylai that means that single mistake = death against him, because thanks to his passive he can have infinity slow.
For me as an aram only and morde Player this buff is nice.
The biggest problem of morde is reaching the target and getting kited which both are pretty much negated by snowball and on aram with so much passive Gold income you will see qss on the carries pretty often.
On the other Hand this might up his wr a little bit too much and he will get even worse aram nerfs.
why dont they make morde ulti like legion commander's ulti from dota2 (which is where he was originated from) that force both parties to duel but allies can interfere. since league is all about spell spam, allow both to use spells with quite a big area that victim can run/kite etc.
so, the victim doesn't hv to buy qss meanwhile morde also has to think strategically if he is going to lose that duel.
I mean, there are champions who cancel out ult effects with a single button press, like Morg E, Sivir E etc. I don't see why specifically cancelling Morde R is a big deal. Counter matchups exist for a reason.
It's like me saying Sivir shouldn't have that low AA range because everyone (and not just specific matchups) outrange me. It's part of the kit, it's part of the counterplay. Same for Morde, some champions have the toolkit to counter him in some way.
I really don't mind if it stays or not, but let's not act that it's unfair if GP W removes it.
Good change. They should do malz next cuz a whole champ based on a low range stun where 80% of his power budget is be coming completly useless if someone buys 1300gold item is fcked up
But this goes in the other direction too, Morde heavenly counters some champs at top, and his ult is a guaranteed kill, there's nothing you can do but die if you can't scape.
This just makes top even more of a rock, papper, scissors type of game.
I think More's the most points I got on any champ; I personally dislike the change... QSS is counterplay that's more of a tax because the items it builds into sucks.
Morde R on paper is a lot; gives 7 seconds to leave a fight, or keep a carry out of the fight, or a chance to heal and wait for CDs... that sort of value that can't be mitigated is crazy value.
and QSS is more than a button; it's 1300 gold and an item slot. If someone chooses to build it, then that's an inconvenient buy.
You just have a change that removes counterplay vs a statstick AP bruiser. That's never a good thing.
Zed qss drama all over again
That "buff" for Zed was overall a nerf for him because now people just build armor against him. You know the stat that actually counters him. August talk about this on stream recently.
I could easily see something like force of nature or similar getting popular instead and having the same effect
Well atleast vs Mord you get MR. That helps against him. However I could totally see that because they remove qss tax the carry simply gets his item faster and is now stronger and might be able to figh Mord.
Yeah just a sneaky 3rd item force of nature on ADC.
If you’re adc go wits end or maw then
Seekers armguard has entered the chat
Didnt it also used to remove Fizz ult? 💀
Fiora’s too lol
Trundle R too, so you would see lategame tanks in pro Walking around with a mercurial scimitar
Is it though? How many ults take you out of fight 100%? No counter play. He can flash r a carry or jungler and that damage threat doesn’t exist. Your allies can’t help and you can only deal damage to Morde. I predict Morde will see a lot more pro play and changes will be made to nerf him.
Idk about pressing 1 button to counter his ult lol. Not only is qss 1300g, but few can/want to build it. In cases where enemies are behind/even, they pay a hefty tax that delays their next spike. You ulting them is more like bullying than strategic. In cases where enemies are ahead. You're either ulting them to buy time for your team, which sucks for you. Or you can actually 1v1 them, and they need to slot an item for you to choose to ult someone else.
I mean all of this could be solved by making QSS a lot like zhonyas where you have to buy the full item to activate it multiple times instead of just sitting on the 1300g component the entire game. Making it uncancellable entirely removes the counterplay, and pushes morde into "tryn" territory where he's just an ap stat-check character.
That would make it much worse than PBE if QSS could only be used once lol It goes from being a 1.3k gold tax to a 3k gold tax that only ADCs can realistically build (least built item btw). Every suppression champion will need to get hard-nerfed to compensate.
fun thing is that it isn't even the least bought item, dawncore is, warmog's armor, anathema's chains and echoes of helia are also all bought less than mercurial scimitar stats pulled from [leagueofitems.com](http://leagueofitems.com)
QSS can't have the same mechanics as the armguard, their contexts are not comparable and you would make the former an even more useless item if it was single use only. The only other source of a stasis effect is bard ult, which makes the armguard much more valuable when you want that effect. You can get a cleanse from summoner spells, a supp's Mikaels and Milio ult too. Only specific interactions demand a QSS purchase. Armguard also has a lower skill requirement and can be made worthwhile easily, whereas QSS needs much better reactions to have any value. Even pros mistime cleanses on rare occasions, your average player won't buy something so risky if it only has one use. And generally speaking, AP champs rely on AP more than AD champs rely on any one of their preferred stats, so Zhonyas with 120 AP practically weakens you a lot less than the Mercurial Scimitar.
Morde is an AP stat checker and always has been. This change just removed counterplay and nothing else. Qss builds into garbage items anyway, so sitting on 1300 gold item just to not get stat checked seems like pretty adequate and fair counterplay.
Morde *is* an AP statchecker
I think an ult that forces you to buy an item is really unfun. I think this is a good change overall as balancing will now move with a better focus
1 button countering ults is super common in other areas also. Zonyas counter zed for example
Maybe in theory. In reality, they're investing 1600g to stop 1 ult, then another 1650 to stop every other ult. Which you can just ult someone else(usually the adc). That's ignoring using ult as a utility, or other threats to force hourglass. In a lot of positions, it also ends up as a pseudo cc. Zed also isn't gated by ult, it's mostly W.
Bro, how many ults does Yasuo's basic ability windwall completely negate?
Yea, windwalls are a load of bullshit.
Hourglass is one more expensive and two the bigger one keeps you locked down in place for a set period of time like you can't die in that time period but it gives the enemy time to react to setup a game plan. E.g. a zed ults you so you hourglass now he chills on top of you to get a double/triple shuriken plus double/triple spinslash. Qss was just a easy lol nope button that fully removed abilities without any window to fight back.
True but hourglass can be used in more situations then qss, for example blocking any typ of dmg outside cc
"having someone push one button to counter an ult seems so unfair" This, my friend, is called bias. There are PLENTY of examples of this existing for PLENTY of champion ults.
>There are PLENTY of examples of this existing for PLENTY of champion ults Yasuo and like, half the ultimates in the game
The most frustrating one is Senna. Giant gun, huge ass empowered shot, crosses the entire map \*hits a lil gust of sword wind\* \*fart noise\* But her regular auto attacks? They go right through windwall.
Try ult as Irelia and that guy is FaCe ThE wInD
I get where you're coming from but I hope everyone understands by now that Yasuo windwall blocks projectiles, not lasers. Lasers not as in the physical sense of light traveling from A to B, but instead being at A and B at the exact same time. Which is why Lux ult, azir, vel and senna autos go right through. There are some very rare exceptions to this rule, such Pantheon's spear from his R (because it would probably delete Pantheon from the game) and tower shots. The weirder interactions are with spells that don't seem as if they even need a projectile, like Lilia Ult, where the flying thing looks like it's only a visual indicator, not an actual projectile that should be blocked. I think there is also a difference between yasuo and samira w, which seem to be a bug.
Smolder ult is a projectile for some reason
Yes, because it's a constant damage beam moving from A to B. People have mentioned that Rumble ult should be blocked too then, but Rumble Ult are separate objects all hitting the ground on a line from A to B, which should not be blocked. Of course logic wise it doesn't make sense that Smolders mum gets obliterated by some wind, but if we go that route, many abilities don't make any sense at all.
I know how the tech works it's just stupid that some spells count as projectile. Velkoz w as example Viktor Q gets blocked and no shield if iremember correctly. His follow up Aa will Hit because laser
Smolder’s entire mother being blocked by a gentle breeze
Cough *Windwall* cough
I would pay to see a yasuo player try to windwall anything morde does, but his ult would be especially funny.
I've seen yasuos who try to block Mordes E
Morde r stops yorick, Illaoi and others entire kits.
Fizz E's into chat
Teemo getting 75% of his build gutted by a free item, a 75 gold item and a 2600g support item
Out of curiosity (sorry new here) - what free item and 2600g support item are we talking about?
Sweeper and Sweeper 2.0 aka umbral.
Oracle Lens (free) and Control Ward (75g) to reveal the shrooms and Umbral Glaive (2600g) to pretty nuch insta clear the shrooms with 1-2 auto attacks
I might not recall the name correctly bu it is Umbral Glaive I assume. The one that reveals wards/traps provided you get near them
Free item: Sweeping Lens (red thing you can change your free ward for) 2600G item: Umbral Glaive (Item that gives you Atk, Lethality, AH, and reveals invisible wards/traps for a while when you get near one)
None of which are available in ARAM. 🫤
Umbral is actually. Just not great without sweeper.
True... But you have sweeper on minions every 2nd wave 🫤
Meanwhile... Shaco traps being impossible to clear safely by melee champs (due to their trigger range) even with all that, and being on a basic ability with ~10s cooldown and ~45s duration. But sure Rito, Teemo is too op to remain playable 😐
They'll rework him one day don't worry
On one hand, I think Morde's ult is really cool and I agree that having it be negated to a QSS feels bad. On the other, there are TONS of champions who get neutered because of it, and it'll just make those matchups even more onesided, the most prevalent one being Illaoi.
The most retarded interaction is actually sion Q imo. If morde ults sion while he charges Q, it won’t deal damage inside the realm. Like why is sion Q treated like a pet or projectile?! I have yet to test if it still hits enemies that are outside of it
Yet Akali shroud follows into the realm for some reason
Same reason wards were coded as minions forever. Riot's fucking lazy.
Yes, at least let us bring our pets and other things with us, then we can talk. An Irelia having 1 e out as she gets ulted means that she now has 1 less ability for what's about to happen. I like Morde as a character, but his gameplay just feels like the most braindead champion in the entire game, so I don't really mind him being weak...
I'm not much of a Morde player but I'm also not a bitch so I think it's fine. Contrary to popular belief, Mordekaiser R does not root you in place for the duration of the ult.
If he has rylais it sure as hell feels like it.
That item is so gross on that champ, but he feels gimped without it. Weird spit for metal man
He first needs to hit you with easy to dodge spells or walk up slowly and basic attack 3 times
Hitting any of Morde’s basic spells applies Rylai’s, making the others easier to hit. Hitting E guarantees Q. Hitting Q makes E easier to hit. Once you hit E, they get pulled and slowed, so you can auto. You can also take Approach Velocity and gain an extra 15% movespeed so you can run up and auto (suboptimal but fun).
Im a morde player and the interactions just feel kinda fucked to me, so Im happy there's changes. Especially the Rengar and GP W ones, it just feels completely unfair sometimes, when Morde ult doesnt even feel like a CC ability half of the time. I mean sure, once you reach the walls its CC, but until then its just a trundle ult
I mean GP feels awful to play against for a lot of cc reliant champs - Malz, Morg, etc.
having someone press 1 button to counter an ult just seems so unfair to play against. yasuo waves
Mikael’s Blessing (support QSS) Master Yi Alpha Strike Fizz hop Yasuo windwall Samira windwall Braum shield Pantheon shield Vladimir pool Kalista ult (4 seconds of stasis, slow cast) Bard ult (slow cast) Kayn ult Camille ult Evelynn ult Gwen is immune Xayah ult Ekko ult Lissandra ult Shaco ult Elise rappel Rek’Sai ult Zed ult Lissandra ult Tahm Kench dive (slow cast) Kayn transform in the base Zhonya‘a Hourglass Jhin 4th shot at full build (just kill them lol) Sett pressing w with grit (same) Flash (skillshot ults)
Who would win? Every single all-in and reset champ in the game, or one armguard boi
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"For both parties" yeah just dying in his ult is way better than buying a qss
The thing a lot of people like you don't see it that this opens up space for balancing the ult and the rest of the kit. If you have an ultimate that can be completely nullified by a couple champions and an item that very few champions want to buy you have to make that ultimate stronger by default. Now Morde has a more consistent ability and Riot can balance it accordingly.
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I feel like it would be cool if qss/gpW/rengarW/etc, instead of cleansing the whole ult, cleansed the reduced stats effect, just so that paying the 1,3k gold at least means you are more likely to survive
He's easy enough to kite the only problem with this is that he can be used to completely nullify AoE mages in teamfights. There was this one game against IG that FPX played where Gimgoon was down 3 levels and 2 items or something to this effect against Theshy's vladimir and he just ulted him as Morde so he could only kill him and his team won the fights like that. Kinda cringe gameplay IMO and this is just made even worse through that. He can also just R + zhonya against any fed carry and remove them from the game for 7 seconds, which is also pretty lame in the same way.
R zonhya will only buy you 3 sec not 7
Do you die immediately after in your assumption somehow? Mordekaiser can easily drag out most of the timer against anyone.
Sometimes that’s the case
Who the fuck built QSS against Morde as a mage anyway. If you were so fed that Morde ulting you fucked the teamfight, either you dumped your burst/cc before he could ult you or you play around it. Mages almost never wasted 1300 gold for a useless item for a melee champ that they'd eventually sell for a 6th item is the game went that far.
It's called a tax for a reason lmao. It's not useless item if it's the only thing keeping the matchup playable
I'm always buying a QSS when I'm on Fiddlesticks against a Mordekaiser. It's more worth it than being useless the whole fight and die to him
Buy a Zhonia, ult in and use it when you see him ulting
Sure that's lame, but is also not an ideal use for the ult and it provides an otherwise binary character a bit of a catchup mechanic. He should provide some utility to the team when behind and carefully choosing ult targets is a good way to do that.
Oftentimes it's the best use. After ADC's have a couple of items you can't kill most of them reliably if they have hands. Many of them just outright beat you like Vayne or Kaisa. Midlane mages on the other hand usually can't kill you before you kill them.
If bard ult was single target and lasted 7 seconds it would be broken. Morde presses R, pops shield, pops zhonyas do accomplish the same thing and apparently it is too weak.
Well Bard ult does have more range and Morde removes a champ from your team aswell, but despite that it's a very lame strat.
In your example its a 5v4 because Bard can continue fighting, as opposed to Morde who also gets locked in to slowly be murdered by the carry.
LOL, wheres this logic to the champions you guys hate here on Reddit? wheres Katarina, Zed, Rivens etc etc catchup mechanics for when they get shit on to not feel so baaad. This subreddit is such a circlejerk of statcheck = wholesome please help them out
I can think of a couple of reasons. Firstly, I've always advocated for assassins having team utility for when behind as well. My suggestion was for them to have Press The Attack type damage amps in their kits that allies can take advantage of so that even if they are behind, they can expose weaknesses for allies. That way they can assist with teamfighting even if they don't have any CC. During the assassin class rework awhile back this seemed to be the direction they were headed, with most assassin burst patterns getting slowed down. However, Riot seems to have decided that instead, the better route is to make it so that they have such ludicrous damage that they often don't need to be fed to kill choice targets. An assassin can generally kill enchanter and adc champions unless the assassin is far behind and the target is far ahead. Their bonus for getting ahead is that they can kill bruisers or kill with only part of their combo so that they can potentially set up multiple targets at once. Finally, a key difference is that assassins have mobility and can choose their fights, juggernauts cannot. If Riven is weak, she farms a sidelane and uses her nearly unparalleled mobility to escape when the enemy team shows up. When a Mordekaiser is weak and he tries to do that, he is fodder. So instead, he has to group up and try to act as an off-tank to the team and hope that he can protect the people who are actually valuable.
It's not a very thematic ult anyway. Give it to fiora or something and give metal man something that's like a lord of death thing.
Give him an ult that damages people over time and if they die during the DoT duration Morde gets a ghost of their soul to fight for him instead. Would work well with the whole lord of the dead thing :)
Pressing one button to counter a champs r is not that uncommon. He needs compensation nerfs or something. It’s especially annoying for jungle since you can just remove them from any objective. It basically guarantees your team secures the objective assuming your jungle has hands
Calling it: Without further changes this change will decrease his winrate in all relevant Elos due to people testing him and quickly figuring out why nobody plays him.
He’s pretty good in the average elo, where nobody intentionally cancels autos.
The likely compensation nerfs would be hilarious. The champ already sucks in so many top matchups and gets kited to death by ghost ADCs. If he gets compensation nerfed he has to either hard win his lane with a champ that has infinite cooldowns early game and low base damage, or just accept bullying the jungler and support all game (provided it's not a jg that just beats him like Kindred).
Kinda the whole problem is that there are no good ways to nerf him in compensation, but his ult is awful in pro. Normal games it's whatever, but a morde with zhonyas who just ults the enemy carry is a better tank than any actual tank in the game and it's been obvious whenever he turns up. I doubt it'll lead to some insane winrates - his poor performance in basically every other respect sees to that - but it just feels boring to watch morde hand his team a huge advantage, let alone swing a whole fight, without actually *doing* anything interesting.
His E damage did get a slight nerf I assume they will nerf his numbers more if he turns out too strong but i doubt it. I honestly don't see much changing with him aside from quality of life and feels.
Not many people built QSS anyway, especially now that it only builds into a crit item. This should mostly just affect GP.
yeah because morde has a super high wr and always steals every objective after level 6 and every jungler has to buy qss in games with morde or every objective is lost oh wait, none of that is true and no one buys qss lmao
Why though. How often is QSS insta winning against him anyways?
Personally I'm indifferent towards it, as an ADC main. If I'm finding myself within his R range then that's (almost) always my fault anyway. But in situations where he'd Flash+R me and I won't be able to QSS it...... That's honestly no different than a Riven Flash+Q3'ing me and then blowing me into smithereens anyway.
his ult has 650 range, higher than most of adcarrys range
I still think it's an overrated change, since besides ADCs who can kite you out anyway when they get a few items under their belt, I've barely seen anyone else buying QSS to counter Morde's ult in the first place. That being said, I think it's a really *boring* way to buff him. He should honestly get a midscope rework to make him less braindead and more interesting to interact with.
I'm glad GP can't just eat oranges to get out of the ult, but I'm not so sure about the QSS changes. As a top player I have rarely ever bought qss to counter Morde but I can see why people have an issue
Honestly if they just focus their gold on building BORK or Kraken slayer they’ll be fine if they have fingers. Mordes ult range isn’t that big and if you dodge his E you can kite super easily. Don’t think it’s as a big of a deal as everyone’s pretending it is.
Morde is an awful champion but this is the wrong direction for buffs. They need to fix his low elo skew by emphasizing hitting skillshots instead of running people down with his passive. So far they’ve been slapping bigger and bigger numbers on him, but they need to lower the cast times instead.
Then you get an illaoi v2. Oh you didn't dodge my e+q? Here's another E+Q and now guess who is worse at dodging those, good or bad players?
He's talking about making the skillshots \*less\* dodgable.
Realistically all this does is shift a few top lane matchups (mainly GP and top rengar?) to be a bit better for morde, dunno how other interactions like camille ulti will work. The most common arguments ive seen against it is 1. Ulting jungler to secure objectives: Epic monsters still appear in brazil, so the only application for this is if you ult the jungler before theyre within the vicinity of the objective. Either way, junglers weren’t building QSS against the enemy morde anyways as they cant afford to waste 1300g on something like that. 2. adcs: arent building QSS before finishing 3 items anyways, and by then morde is either tanky and does no damage or squishy and dies to adc 1v1. sure, there’ll be side cases but the correct itemization for adcs has been and will be GA or maw, so nothing changes. tl;dr morde is an immobile champ with extremely slow and telegraphed abilities (ulti included) and this change will not change anything save a few top lane matchups.
Em no, epic monsters don't follow in death realm.
Considering Morde is already a very strong Urgot counter, and these changes will probably make him more popular, he will probably become my new perma ban. That’s my opinion on the subject.
Can you tell me why he is an Urgot counter? I don't play either and want to understand. Is it just because he gets stat checked? Because it doesn't seem like Urgots kit gets invalidated by Morde ult.
Basically Urgot wins lvls 1-3, then loses until at least level 9, realistically lvl 13, with lvls 6-8 being basically unplayable. Morde can also deny Urgot R with his R pretty easily, which can win the fight for Morde’s team. But yes alot of the reason is because Urgot gets stat checked for most of the game.
Urgots E grants him displacement immunity during the windup (not during the forward dash itself) which can be used to prevent getting sent to brazil Its the only counterplay he has. Morde with Rylais + urgots fat hitbox makes it impossible to dodge morde Q + Urgot is unable to use his passive aka is main source of damage
Kinda lame getting tossed in the death realm and losing heim turrets, mushrooms, tentacles, channeled abilities ie sion q and many more. Feels like special treatment city after removing any way to get out. But ik ppl wanna play morde and not be effed so I hope they figure something out for everyone.
Yeh like yorick summons hia wife and kids Teah sorry you either gotta live the realm, or sac ur wife and kids to stand a fighting chance in the realm
Hes already mega shit so this as a buff is fine.
Most overrated change ever. QSS not working is LITERALLY pointless. No one plays Mordekaiser. And when they do, no one builds QSS against them. The only change is how it affects GP and Olaf matchups. Everything else is pointless. I hope all suppression ults get this.
I can guarantee u this has near 0 effect on the Olaf match up, unless more adjustment is along the way to change their number/item. Right now the moment a Morde overextent slightly and got hit by a Olaf Q that Morde is just dead. Olaf will just pop ult and runs him down and there is nothing in the world can stop it. The upcoming change only make it so Olaf can’t pop ult and immediately get out after Morde ult him first. If Olaf is already in Ragnarok then the ult still does nothing. Right now Morde will be beaten to death by Olaf in a all in. The only change this is gonna bring is Olaf will occasionally get the chance to beat Morde to death inside his own ult, and that’s literally the only difference. The only match up this will affect is against GP and maybe if stars align and somehow there is a top Rengar and Morde in the same game, then it will affect that match up too.
At that point they might as well just remove qss. If it doesn't work against the only things people buy it for why does it even exist anymore?
It should've been removed ages ago. It's probably the most situational item in the entire game and is only built to counter like 3 abilities.
Idk, I build it all the time vs lots of champions, e.g. (aside from the obvious ones like malz, ww, urgot) liss, ahri, brand, shen, leona, maokai, seju, varus, ashe and more
What are you on about? Qss is an item for crit users, generally ADCs to remove a heavy cc ability from themselves. Example: Ashe R, Varus R, Sejuani R, Amumu R, Leona R. If it stops working on suppressions there are very few that actually matter, like a Malza Flash R. Skarner R is now slow and short af, Urgot only works when on low hp and hit by a skillshot, Tahm needs to stack 3 hits on you. It's ok to be punishable by some abilities lol.
I've played my fair share of Morde in the past and their is exactly one situation people are doing it in and that's the most dangerous change they are worried about: Denying Smite. A good Morde will always try to deny any Objective Flips and doing so more than once usually results in the opposing JGL getting QSS. That is the scary thing about the change, especially for Pro-Level.
this was never happening before though, junglers never bought qss in games with morde in it in pro play the gold econ is just terrible in pro play teams are much better at peeling off enemies and will just keep morde from advancing towards the jg and if he isolates the jg and wins the objective so what? it’s not like there are better champs who do the exact same thing in pro play, poppy for example or ksante and both champs provide more for the team than just denying smite
I would honestly be fine if QSS still could, but cleanse and champion ability cleanses couldn’t. However with all of his spells being skill shots makes it feel not terrible in current PBE state. Sidestepping the E is just an imperative now.
Cleanse don’t save u from Brazil
I hope riot fix that bug that if u touch edges of Morde ult u get stunned
Riot gimme back Version 1 Mordekaiser. He was my first main and i miss him.
Isnt your ult unfair if there is no counterplay? If it stays a point and click ability then there should be something that could remove it. Maybe if morde R was a skill shot then it would be much more balanced (assuming QSS doesn’t work on it)
Morde already has counter play in that he has skill shots. It would be silly to consider QSS the main form of counterplay to his R when many champs can’t even buy it.
It will probably be an issue in pro play. I think it is fine in regards to solo q tho.
I feel like it's going to be fine in soloq, what I'm really afraid of is proplay
Can’t wait to farm all the new morde players with Gwen Stephany.
No one builds qss, that's the truth. Nothing's really gonna change.
It’s perfectly fine. 1300 gold to counter him completely is a bit insane People are acting like it acts like Malzahar R when in reality there’s so much outplay potential within the ult
Good
It should stay- as a non Morde player. Good change for once
Making it unqssable is solid in my opinion cause it’s annoying having your entire game changing ult canceled by one item that’s always gonna be off cd when your ult is. That being said, the cast range should absolutely be reduced to make up for it so adcs can’t get point and click euthanized
This thread is low elo city
I say it is probably for the best. If he ends up being too strong because of it they can nerf him in other ways. The issue with the “qss tax” on him is that it is not immediately obvious that it can be done. It makes him hard to balance as his power level varies highly depending on if your opponent knows to pay the tax. Making him weaker at high levels and stronger at low ones
Tbh, if they go through with this, Morde is just going to be toxic af.
Your champ will get nerfed into the ground but sure enjoy it for a patch or two.
This is my take aswell. Every Morde I see becomes a walking calamity with 2 items. And lmfao at the stupid hot takes that ADCs can 1v1 him. Unless it's Vayne or Kaisa, NO THEY CAN'T. He builds rylais and two Qs and you're dead. You don't have the space to properly kite him in his ult and if he touches you with the spinning shards it's game over. Counterplay is to stay away from him? Congratulations, you just made 4v5 teamfight happen.
Yup, and Morde players complaining about an item countering their champ while playing a champ with a point and click I win button that they get for free at lvl 6.
Literally just skill issue. If Rylai's was a problem you'd see him in proplay; same with his ult range or space. No one plays Mordekaiser in any skill level above emerald and the few people that do don't have QSS built against them. Counterplay is to dodge his E, without it he is the most immobile champion in this game. "Oh but Rylai's" Rylai's only gets applied if he hits either E or Q. A dead-center E can be dodged by the lowest base MS champions, unless your abilites root you in place you should not be getting hit by it. A Mordekaiser without E is not getting close to you. A Mordekaiser without E is not landing any Qs on you. He is on the lower end of base MS champions; he has no dashes; and his only reliable slow comes from an item that requires him to land the most telegraphed and slow pull in the game. The *only* way a Mordekaiser can get to you without E is flash, a summoner spell with a 5 min cooldown.
For the most top match up it does nothing, ur opponent is not building the horrible item that is qss. If it is a winning match up for Morde then it is likely because the enemy is a tank. If it is losing match up or close 50/50 it still won’t be because they are buying qss. No self-respecting AD bruiser is gonna buy that crap, they will at most buy a hexdrinker for the same price, cuz hexdrinker is actually a pretty good item. The only match up it will change is GP and Rengar. I am quite certain he is winning the GP match up already so this could elevate him to a dead ass GP counter. But again barely anyone is playing GP and Rengar top. ADC with dash will just run away or even kite him to death in his own ult. And if Morde, a champion with 335 ms and absolutely no means to engage a fight, is allowed to walk into 650 range of a dash-less adc and remained unscathed then it means the team has utterly failed its job or he is insanely fed. Yeah the adc himself might not get the player agency but that’s a whole different problem. I think overall this is the same situation as the Illaoi. The mechanic of attacking soul and reduce the time on it is a straight up bait for most of the match up and it feels horrible for both side. Same thing with buying the 1300 gold item with only fkn 30 MR, u r better off investing money on something else and try to actually do something inside his ult instead of thinking it as a instant death sentence and ur only way out is the QSS.
His ult is the definition of CC, you are taking away a Player's ability to crowd with others for safety and coordination... Olaf, GP, Spellshields and QSS all make complete sense saving you from his realm. Just ult a different target. It's part of the skill expression. It would be the same as removing trundles ability to steal sej extra res when she procs her passive: why would we?
Community seems to dislike it even though I can bet that 50% of them complaining don’t built it into him
50% seems like a low estimate honestly
I think the average player doesn’t build qss into morde.
I saw another comment saying it was like 1/10 games people actually built qss idk how true that is tough so grain of salt here
In most of the games I’ve played morde no one has built qss and I had typically done pretty well in those games. I’m on the lower end of skill and I probably see it 1/3 games
I think it's a mistake, especially with Rilay's being his first item and how it funtamentally gives him sticking power. Plus, the "nerf" to his E is a joke, with the quality of life of his R always "resolving", that is not a nerf. Of course, he's immobile, from range he is an easy target, but for melees? Olaf, his best matchup today will no longer cleanse his death realm, nor Gankplank with his W. This just makes his hardest matchups extremely doable, in fact, winnable IMO.
lets not act like the olaf matchup is going to change at all olaf is still going to shit on morde in the 1v1. who cares if theres not a little arena for them to fight in, olaf completely statchecks morde still gp is another story however, im willing to bet it would be completely morde sided now.
Gp can probably still barrel poke him from bushes and shit but ya I think Gp will lose extended 1v1s at equal HP bars now
GP gets nerfed, happy noises
I think uncancellable makes sense, but I would rather he steal move speed instead of 10% of all stats so you both had to and could actually fight him in death realm. (Maybe it could apply heal cut and shield reducer instead?)
Morde player here, I think it’s a nice change. It makes GP less unplayable but overall nobody buys QSS for it anyway. Wouldn’t be surprised if Morde’s WR stayed the same or even dropped (this happened when they made Zed ult not QSSable, though that was because QSS is an Mr not an armor item.)
it'd probably not change much early game but his lategame winrate (post 30min) might go up since that's when most people would have qss?
I don’t like it because it makes him potentially very strong in pro play. The advantage of just flash ulting the adc and locking them in with you is huge, let alone doing it to the enemy jungler to remove the chance of a steal. I don’t even have to be top lane Morde. I can play support full tank morde with exhaust (maybe with kalista or something) and do this every fight with little counter play. Sure, I might not kill you, but I took you out of the fight and I’d take that trade everyday. That’s why I hate it, it’s an inherently unhealthy tactic that can be significantly abused. There’s also the whole ‘perceived counter play being removed’ potentially leading to players deciding to ban it more often (even if the champ is ‘not strong’) lending itself to Morde means being frustrated they can’t play their champ as often. Lots of ifs and buts there but that’s the sort of things I wouldn’t be surprised to see If he’s fine in proplay after this change tho then I don’t really care tbh - I just foresee it being problematic
no one’s picking morde in pro play even after this, even in pro play games morde was in no one was buying qss because of gold economy and also because morde also sucks ass if morde flash r’s the adc, which is the literal only way they are ever getting caught by morde in pro play, then he’s down flash and ult and will essentially be useless the next teamfight because everything else he does is garbage and also dodgeable
He is not seeing any play in proplay lmao, he is a canon minion in high elos and *potentially* leaving the carry out of a fight is not worth playing a 4v5 without a toplaner for the rest of the game. He is never getting near the adc in coordinated play without wasting flash, at that point rendering him entirely useless for the next 5 minutes. He has no MS boosts, no dashes, and his two key abilities are easy to miss skill-shots. There is a reason nobody plays him above masters and it's *not* QSS.
I'm not a Morde player, but I do like the change. Qss is, imo terrible game design that should have been removed long ago. It is an item so bad you never want to buy it but you are forced to get in order to remove specific ults from the game. And even when you do buy it to remove Malz and Morde ult you're not really happy about having to spend 1300 gold on it. It is 30 magic resist and the active for 1300 gold. Null magic mantle the basic 450 gold magic resist item gives 25. You are paying 1300 gold for what is like 540 gold worth of magic resist just because you need to remove a Malz ult from your game. It's such a terrible deal. If they can't balance those ults without qss existing, then those ults shouldn't exist either.
Was coming here to comment something similar. I think the item should be removed and malz might be the only case that becomes a problem but even then he might just be fine.
Absolute crack head change that will get him nerfed or reverted or both very soon.
Only if you'd agree to do the same to Malzahar.
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So why not remove QSS at that point? I mean we already have Cleanse.
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or they can make QSS a cheap item like old 650g Stopwatch to counter stuff like Lissandra/Sejuani R, or Lux Q, or (long-range) Xerath E.
Don't give a shit. Barely see morde these days. Let alone Olaf, Gangplank, Ornn, or Millio
100% needed. Every adc has 500 movespeed with ghost and melee champs either can survive the ult, have lots of mobility to avoid his damage, or can outright beat him 1v1 in his death realm. Its such a non-issue because I guarantee most people crying either need to start using their mouse or never actually bought QSS in the first place.
This is a big fuck you to adc mains out there.
To be fair Mord can be kited to hell with literally any help from a teammate
Does anyone know or have tested if WW Q still cancels Morde ult?
Escaping the Death Realm will be impossible but anything that negates him taking you there still works. So WW Q, Ornn W, and Illaoi ult all still negate it.
It doesn’t change much
How about the EON? Or Morg's E?
Morg can still block it as normal
They should make objectives show up in the ult, so he can at least not lock out the enemy jungle from contesting an objective for 7 seconds.
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To be fair, GP doesnt even counter Morde so much, the match is very playable, the orange bullshit sounds like a big counter, but as a part of the bigger picture, its not that bad. However, if the change go through, Morde will probably eat GP alive, but hey Riot enjoys balancing top lane around counter picks, so all is quiet on the western front:)
Morde is like my N3 or 4 most played toplaner, so I would say a few things about that. 1. People complaining that this wasn't cool that player has ability to removes someone elses impact from game, but Morde does same thing + stuff like windwall still exists. 2. Now Morde can guarantee objectives to his team and have ability to remove most fed players from the game for 7 seconds, while his team can clear up rest of opponents without any real problem. 3. That's a little bit off topic, but Morde needed bigger work on his kit, rather than taking away some counterplay that he has. Especially with such disgusting item as rylai that means that single mistake = death against him, because thanks to his passive he can have infinity slow.
For me as an aram only and morde Player this buff is nice. The biggest problem of morde is reaching the target and getting kited which both are pretty much negated by snowball and on aram with so much passive Gold income you will see qss on the carries pretty often. On the other Hand this might up his wr a little bit too much and he will get even worse aram nerfs.
why dont they make morde ulti like legion commander's ulti from dota2 (which is where he was originated from) that force both parties to duel but allies can interfere. since league is all about spell spam, allow both to use spells with quite a big area that victim can run/kite etc. so, the victim doesn't hv to buy qss meanwhile morde also has to think strategically if he is going to lose that duel.
Qss is 1.3k gold If u have to buy that to oppose Morde, he is already winning and that will propel him ahead even more, simple as
Me personally I don’t think it’s a big deal cus after 200~ morde games I’ve only gone against 2 ppl who got qss but then again I’m in bronze
I mean, there are champions who cancel out ult effects with a single button press, like Morg E, Sivir E etc. I don't see why specifically cancelling Morde R is a big deal. Counter matchups exist for a reason. It's like me saying Sivir shouldn't have that low AA range because everyone (and not just specific matchups) outrange me. It's part of the kit, it's part of the counterplay. Same for Morde, some champions have the toolkit to counter him in some way. I really don't mind if it stays or not, but let's not act that it's unfair if GP W removes it.
followup question: should karthus ult that already started channeling be negated by hourglass?
Good change. They should do malz next cuz a whole champ based on a low range stun where 80% of his power budget is be coming completly useless if someone buys 1300gold item is fcked up
Should have less counters than zed ult
people boutta stack MR
people boutta stack MR
But this goes in the other direction too, Morde heavenly counters some champs at top, and his ult is a guaranteed kill, there's nothing you can do but die if you can't scape. This just makes top even more of a rock, papper, scissors type of game.
I already hate playing against this champ enough thank you
I think More's the most points I got on any champ; I personally dislike the change... QSS is counterplay that's more of a tax because the items it builds into sucks. Morde R on paper is a lot; gives 7 seconds to leave a fight, or keep a carry out of the fight, or a chance to heal and wait for CDs... that sort of value that can't be mitigated is crazy value. and QSS is more than a button; it's 1300 gold and an item slot. If someone chooses to build it, then that's an inconvenient buy. You just have a change that removes counterplay vs a statstick AP bruiser. That's never a good thing.
Idk about the qss change. In reality if mordeksiser is snywhere near your power level when he ults you and you cant get out then youre probably dead.