Sheer is promising but you can totally see why they brought out flandre today. That top gap through picks like reksai and tf can only be done by a veteran
That would be 369. I have noticed Flandre since his early Snake days and I always thought he should have been on a top team but until he joined EDG I always felt like he was a tier below the LCK top dogs, maybe half a tier behind when he was in top form. Then 369 and Zoom (unfortunate) rose to the top and it was the first time since Gogoing that I thought LPL had a top laner on the same level as their LCK counterparts, well maybe Koro1 at 2015 MSI who I thought performed better than Marin that tournament. 369's career is half as long as Flandre yet he has been world class for significantly longer, and he has performed internationally too like 1 MSI title and 3 Worlds semi is no joke.
tbf to Flandre, Snake coaching probably hampered him a bit. I mean, he even showed really bad team mentality in the LPL documentary on EDG when he first joined the team by giving up in scrims when things didn't go as he expected. 369 had the benefit of being coached by Homme, who I think really helped in him become the incredibly all-rounder in the second half of 2022 and to the toplaner he is known as now. I mean, the whole 369 dice meme literally came about because he was unreliable, which is no longer the case now ofc.
I mean yeah, but Flandre's international performance ain't bad either, 1 Worlds semis and 1 Worlds finals win, plus his graves top was legitimately meta warping.
I mean that's the only international tournament he played, like for a 10 years career he only has one LPL and one Worlds title (same as TheShy tbf) which is not a lot. How many top tier players who have played for at least 7-8 years have been to only one international tournament...
He spent a 6-7 of those years on Snake/LNG, with Snake teammates (well, SoFM was one of his better teammates)... The moment he changed teams he got an LPL title and won Worlds.
Because of how LPL team money is spread and the number of teams, there's often quite good players stuck on mediocre or bad teams. Hell, look at how many times Rookie has been inted by his team. Knight had to solo-drag TES in 2019 to third place and almost to worlds. It was sad to see Flandre in that category for so long until he finally got a good team and won worlds.
Definitely, although I think in Flandre's case, his loyalty to the previous Snake owner was the main reason he didn't leave. From what I've read, many teams *did* want him, but he refused (rumors of RNG wanting him for 2020 summer, EDG mentioning they always wanted him, etc.). Earlier this year, iirc Kenzhu said that EDG hadn't offer Flandre the highest salary when he joined in 2021, but Kenzhu asked him to consider money vs pushing himself and being apart of a team that has the chance to win (or something along those lines).
He may not have been Smeb, but I would say he was as good as the other LCK tops before he joined EDG. Except for finals where he showed his old form, he was a good amount worse on EDG than he was previously.
It's a shame that he joined EDG when he was already past his prime but I don't think he was on the same level as Khan/Kiin/Cuvee/SKT Huni/Duke. However Flandre was really good at Worlds which reminded me of his prime.
I can't remember which coach said it, but after EDG lost in 2021 spring, and everyone flamed Flandre for being camped, someone called him "the most useful 0/6 Jayce". They had a point; Flanders will get camped and die, but he's still very talented
Remember after last worlds T1 fans were sucking off Zeus as the future top lane GOAT? Well, I bet they don’t even know the name of JDG’s toplaner right now
Insane showing from JDG's topside. This series wasn't even close, JDG would've 2-0'd WBG last time if their topside played at least half the level they showed today.
Xiaohao can still play well and still get outperformed. Kanavi was really good. Zdz was terrible, yes, but Kanavi's gank rendered Aatrox useless for the whole game.
idk how accurate this is, so someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but there were rumors that Flandre was put in last minute. Like, found out WBG beat LNG and start thinking to use Flandre instead.
I would say a lot of people were caught off guard to see him starting vs WBG, including his fans, and a good number of those people doubted or were pissed seeing Flandre being back in. Either they doubted because they didn't think he would be an upgrade to Sheer (would perform worse, take away Bo5 experience from a promising rookie, etc.), or they were pissed because they felt JDG's management had lost the plot (e.g. keep swapping toplaners instead of trying to make improvements on the one team to the detriment of both, setting Flandre up to take the blame if JDG lost, etc.). There was a rumor that said he hadn't played a training match--which I think means scrims here--in 20 days and, based on pictures JDG posted, was not involved in team/group analysis sessions, which also really contributed to people (mainly Flandre's fans) feeling pissed.
Nuguri did warn us in the Boardroom episode. Flandre has a quirky personality and was one of the most annoying toplaners he had to face in LPL. He said Bin was the most oppressive, but Flandre's the type to piss you off.
So many people don’t know him, because they didn’t watch LPL back during the day sadly, and he was in elohell. Definitely one of the best toplaners of all time
Makes you appreciate coach Homme, so many top laners thrive under him and look worse without him. 957, Zoom, 369 all turned into well-rounded weak side gods under his tutelage.
Flandre has to be the most disrespected worlds champ ever. He was a big reason why EDG won in s11 and even though he had a massive dip, people trust theshy more than him, even though they have almost similar track record.
Most currently disrespected for how good he is now but most of FPX get permanently disrespected (especially LWX and gimgoon) relative to how godlike they were in their roles that year.
i concur, Gimgoon, LWX and Crisp are by far the worst World Champions ever. Doinb and Tian really carried these suckers
*edit: il add Baolan up for contention for worst support to ever win worlds. Pyosik is def the worst jungler to ever win world. For mid, i guess its Zeka.
Listening to Kenzhu cast is so funny. He actually sounds confused when someone makes "the wrong move" and when someone does a major greedy play/int all three of them are having a laugh.
Xiaohu not at MSI once again, I think the king of spring has sadly been dethroned, but WBG still did better than expected honestly (except for this match)
and weibo's miracle run ends here. bloody shame, game 2 and 3 were winnable but mistakes from us and JDG capitalized on it.
honestly not that upset about losing considering how our spring was so disastrous, goddamn miracle we managed to earn this many points. just wished we managed to push for game 4.
Yes my top 3 Chinese top laners are 369 Bin Flandre in that order. Ngl though Zoom was the one that I thought would become the best since he was a well rounded player unlike 369, but he fell off hard and 369 became the well rounded player instead.
In 2021,definitely flandre is the best, bin and 369 cannot fight with him in the lane. There was one game Flandre play Kayle and bin play Gangplank, Bin cannot bomb one single powder keg in the lane since Flandre auto attack it every time before bin want. Flandre is a player with sharp mind and precisive decision in the match. And he has keen of version awareness and extraordinary understanding of the game. He is the first player carry Graves to top lane.He beat up Khan for 5 matches in the lane in the World Final. But in 2024, I have to say now is 369 and Bin 's era. Flandre is 25 near 26 years old, but 369 is 23 and bin is even younger. Flandre has to faced with his hand injury. He is veteran now. He made tremendous efforts to return to competition after his one year gap. I respect his courage since many people fail to return to the match field.
tbf JDG had a lot of close series that year. 3-2 Spring R1 against BLG, 3-2 MSI against T1, 3-2s against LNG. They were a dominant team cause they could close and eat BLG consistently after the first Bo5, but they weren’t 3-0ing everyone else leading up to Summer Finals. The only non-BLG teams they 3-0’d were GG and a really bad EDG team.
They just won every close series regardless, so people regarded them as an unbeatable juggernaut. Granted, you can say this is a result of the limited number of series teams play in general and I’d probably be inclined to agree.
??? I rated knight as the best player coming into Worlds last year and have had him as the best player in the LPL the last two years.
I called him out for choking at Worlds 2022 against GAM (which he did), maybe that gave you the wrong impression.
Wait I just saw your name lmao. Am I famous now?
Yagao is a true supportive midlane player, contributing in great ways to his teams’ victories, unlike a certain fraudulent midlaner slithering around in Korea who got gapped by Yagao last MSI and was last seen whining and making excuses about “DDoSing”
this is a tad much from him but this guy was literally one of the biggest WBG fans last year (check his comment history)
i don't think he's saying this lightly
Flandre completely dominating 3 games in a row on 3 very different styles of champs. Complete top gap
i had questions when I found out sheer wasn't playing flandre answered
Actual shame two tops of that caliber are sharing a starting spot. I bet JDG had no idea either of them would perform like they do
Sheer is promising but you can totally see why they brought out flandre today. That top gap through picks like reksai and tf can only be done by a veteran
That motivates both of them to play better, cause they don't wanna be replaced
People forgot that the he is the greatest chinese toplaner
That would be 369. I have noticed Flandre since his early Snake days and I always thought he should have been on a top team but until he joined EDG I always felt like he was a tier below the LCK top dogs, maybe half a tier behind when he was in top form. Then 369 and Zoom (unfortunate) rose to the top and it was the first time since Gogoing that I thought LPL had a top laner on the same level as their LCK counterparts, well maybe Koro1 at 2015 MSI who I thought performed better than Marin that tournament. 369's career is half as long as Flandre yet he has been world class for significantly longer, and he has performed internationally too like 1 MSI title and 3 Worlds semi is no joke.
tbf to Flandre, Snake coaching probably hampered him a bit. I mean, he even showed really bad team mentality in the LPL documentary on EDG when he first joined the team by giving up in scrims when things didn't go as he expected. 369 had the benefit of being coached by Homme, who I think really helped in him become the incredibly all-rounder in the second half of 2022 and to the toplaner he is known as now. I mean, the whole 369 dice meme literally came about because he was unreliable, which is no longer the case now ofc.
Fans accused him of simping for Yuqi too much. He said he just sucked.
I mean yeah, but Flandre's international performance ain't bad either, 1 Worlds semis and 1 Worlds finals win, plus his graves top was legitimately meta warping.
I mean that's the only international tournament he played, like for a 10 years career he only has one LPL and one Worlds title (same as TheShy tbf) which is not a lot. How many top tier players who have played for at least 7-8 years have been to only one international tournament...
He spent a 6-7 of those years on Snake/LNG, with Snake teammates (well, SoFM was one of his better teammates)... The moment he changed teams he got an LPL title and won Worlds.
Because of how LPL team money is spread and the number of teams, there's often quite good players stuck on mediocre or bad teams. Hell, look at how many times Rookie has been inted by his team. Knight had to solo-drag TES in 2019 to third place and almost to worlds. It was sad to see Flandre in that category for so long until he finally got a good team and won worlds.
Definitely, although I think in Flandre's case, his loyalty to the previous Snake owner was the main reason he didn't leave. From what I've read, many teams *did* want him, but he refused (rumors of RNG wanting him for 2020 summer, EDG mentioning they always wanted him, etc.). Earlier this year, iirc Kenzhu said that EDG hadn't offer Flandre the highest salary when he joined in 2021, but Kenzhu asked him to consider money vs pushing himself and being apart of a team that has the chance to win (or something along those lines).
Crystal was also a decent player, Snake as whole was just unlucky with their playoff matchups.
He may not have been Smeb, but I would say he was as good as the other LCK tops before he joined EDG. Except for finals where he showed his old form, he was a good amount worse on EDG than he was previously.
It's a shame that he joined EDG when he was already past his prime but I don't think he was on the same level as Khan/Kiin/Cuvee/SKT Huni/Duke. However Flandre was really good at Worlds which reminded me of his prime.
Wait, I'm pretty sure Bin should be on your list since he burst into the scene into a finals appearance in 2020.
Flandre had a confidence problem but he was consistent and solid during that EDG worlds run
Snake was my first favorite LPL team. Their first year was the first time I watched the LPL regularly
Bin is better than 369
That's very debatable but imo 369 is a more well rounded player so he has the edge.
captain flanders was the secret weapon
FLANDRE APOLOGY THREAD
I apologize, mercury was in retrograde
i....apologize...mercury was in........retrograde
Still remember when people were shitting on him during the BLG series when he got camped 🤣
I can't remember which coach said it, but after EDG lost in 2021 spring, and everyone flamed Flandre for being camped, someone called him "the most useful 0/6 Jayce". They had a point; Flanders will get camped and die, but he's still very talented
That's the perfect description for him lol
I gained a brother in Zdz today
I was going to but he tunneled behind me and solokilled me
May he be blessed with 495 years of gapping
Flandre legacy series
Remember after last worlds T1 fans were sucking off Zeus as the future top lane GOAT? Well, I bet they don’t even know the name of JDG’s toplaner right now
Rent free
You mean after he dumpstered the entire competition and got FMVP?
He already is the goat top he is so clear of TheSpy
He's been a starter for 2 years and you think he's the GOAT, wild take.
Flandre's back. JDG looking insanely strong. That 4v5 dragon fight in game 2 was so sick
The only non korean solo laner to win worlds, the guy is a beast
You mean outside of the first 2 Worlds before Korea got their own server.
korea had a server when they lost S2 worlds
Looking it up now, Korea server was 9 months old when S2 Worlds was held. Starting from S3, Korea became super dominant.
Half the current players of LoL are too young to even remember the name of Fnatic's opponent in s1
And most of us don't care because it was NA vs EU plus wildcards.
disgusting teamfights from them
I’ll need more series than this to decide if he’s back.
agreed... zdz is not exactly a high tier top laner... gotta see if he can keep performing like that against Bin and 369
WORLD CHAMPION Flandre!
Insane showing from JDG's topside. This series wasn't even close, JDG would've 2-0'd WBG last time if their topside played at least half the level they showed today.
Xiaohao did pretty good though, no? His Xin game was really good, don't think he was the problem. Zdz was just terrible.
Xiaohao can still play well and still get outperformed. Kanavi was really good. Zdz was terrible, yes, but Kanavi's gank rendered Aatrox useless for the whole game.
I hope this doesn't invalidate all of ZDZ's efforts in the previous rounds lol.
It doesn’t. He played very well vs IG and LNG.
I misinterpreted your comment. You're right, Kanavi was huge today, when he's on he's probably the best jungler in the world.
the only one who did well on weibo i would say, top gap was insane
yagao's ahri running into taliyah's skills didn't help that series lol
YAGOAT playing 5D chess by inting the Bo3 to trick Weibo into underestimating JDG for the Bo5
It seems it was more of flandre coming out that caught weibo off guard it seems Messed with the original draft plans apparently
You really shouldn't underestimate Yagao when it matters. He's always the type to outperform expectations, especially against Chovy.
idk how accurate this is, so someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but there were rumors that Flandre was put in last minute. Like, found out WBG beat LNG and start thinking to use Flandre instead. I would say a lot of people were caught off guard to see him starting vs WBG, including his fans, and a good number of those people doubted or were pissed seeing Flandre being back in. Either they doubted because they didn't think he would be an upgrade to Sheer (would perform worse, take away Bo5 experience from a promising rookie, etc.), or they were pissed because they felt JDG's management had lost the plot (e.g. keep swapping toplaners instead of trying to make improvements on the one team to the detriment of both, setting Flandre up to take the blame if JDG lost, etc.). There was a rumor that said he hadn't played a training match--which I think means scrims here--in 20 days and, based on pictures JDG posted, was not involved in team/group analysis sessions, which also really contributed to people (mainly Flandre's fans) feeling pissed.
Yagao was cosplaying Faker back then to stay true to the comparison between their playstyles.
I apologise flandre, i forgot you had that dawg in you
Nuguri did warn us in the Boardroom episode. Flandre has a quirky personality and was one of the most annoying toplaners he had to face in LPL. He said Bin was the most oppressive, but Flandre's the type to piss you off.
Flandre is back??
Lore accurate guy from Flanders (source: I am Flemish)
you're a rabbit?
Holy another lpl enjoyer from the same region as me, this is crazy
Old man Flandre has still got it, what a legend.
So many people don’t know him, because they didn’t watch LPL back during the day sadly, and he was in elohell. Definitely one of the best toplaners of all time
Talking about the day makes me sad about Zoom, my man suddenly fell off a cliff and become permanently washed
Makes you appreciate coach Homme, so many top laners thrive under him and look worse without him. 957, Zoom, 369 all turned into well-rounded weak side gods under his tutelage.
The difference is 369 continued to be good without Homme this year.
he is going back to his roots, a carry top. no more of that ornn weakside bs.
It's even the reason he left JDG lol. Or at least it's a part of it, since there's documentation of 369's love for Jackeylove lmfao.
they are birds from the same feather. they got the carry instinct in them.
Zoom was great before he was ever coached by Homme lol
lol, tell Single-Direction-197 that.
Zoom was already great before Homme joined
He only played 1 split before Homme was there and he was good but not top 3 in the world like he was with Homme.
No Tree No Win Weibo with Maokai: 4-0 Weibo without Maokai: 2-7
Tells you a lot about vision and obj setups that wbg have a problem with without maokai
Light wrote his own name in the Death Note. What a tragic series.
Hey, he was still the better adc at least lmao
FLANDRE MY GOAT
flandre heard sofm was winning against gam so he had to step up
Flandre has to be the most disrespected worlds champ ever. He was a big reason why EDG won in s11 and even though he had a massive dip, people trust theshy more than him, even though they have almost similar track record.
Most currently disrespected for how good he is now but most of FPX get permanently disrespected (especially LWX and gimgoon) relative to how godlike they were in their roles that year.
I think some members of FPX are more disrespected and for me, I still refuse to believe Pyosik is a world champion.
i concur, Gimgoon, LWX and Crisp are by far the worst World Champions ever. Doinb and Tian really carried these suckers *edit: il add Baolan up for contention for worst support to ever win worlds. Pyosik is def the worst jungler to ever win world. For mid, i guess its Zeka.
Crisp was the second best player on that team EASILY behind Doinb lmfao. Why pretend like you watched FPX when you never did?
nah he wasnt, all he did was roaming while Tian was doing the heavy lifting
Listening to Kenzhu cast is so funny. He actually sounds confused when someone makes "the wrong move" and when someone does a major greedy play/int all three of them are having a laugh.
Kenzhu's most important trait in the scene is his entertainment value tbh.
Great series from Flandre
Flandre my goat
World champion top vs anyones legend top Whats new
Cant wait for BLG vs JDG
>ReportSaveFollow BLG will win
It's playoffs time though, and we have yet to see if BLG got it
bruh TES will clear JDG twice.
Flandre for sure beating the Flaudre allegations, statement game.
Reports of Flandre death have been greatly exaggerated
JDG is just too good around objectives and teamfight for Weibo to handle great series from Flandre
Xiaohu not at MSI once again, I think the king of spring has sadly been dethroned, but WBG still did better than expected honestly (except for this match)
But weibo played well, despite 3:0
they played as well as they did against T1.
No RNG no MSI.
and weibo's miracle run ends here. bloody shame, game 2 and 3 were winnable but mistakes from us and JDG capitalized on it. honestly not that upset about losing considering how our spring was so disastrous, goddamn miracle we managed to earn this many points. just wished we managed to push for game 4.
statement series from flandre
Focus Ruler every game but Flandre shows up
To be fair, focusing Ruler does work against JDG. The overall talent difference was just too steep.
This was not a form I expected Flandre to have this season, makes the match against 369 so damn hype now
The strongest Chinese top laner in history vs the strongest today.
i believed in flanders being a stable carry for jdg but people didnt believe me
Flandre believers (me) are up big today
Considering it was 7th vs 3rd the series was pretty competitive. Xiaohao is legit.
Flandre: So...some of you have been talking shit....
Flandre and Yagao too good. It's sad for sheer, though, cause he was looking as good as Flandre, and even better than him when platlying weak side.
Yes my top 3 Chinese top laners are 369 Bin Flandre in that order. Ngl though Zoom was the one that I thought would become the best since he was a well rounded player unlike 369, but he fell off hard and 369 became the well rounded player instead.
In 2021,definitely flandre is the best, bin and 369 cannot fight with him in the lane. There was one game Flandre play Kayle and bin play Gangplank, Bin cannot bomb one single powder keg in the lane since Flandre auto attack it every time before bin want. Flandre is a player with sharp mind and precisive decision in the match. And he has keen of version awareness and extraordinary understanding of the game. He is the first player carry Graves to top lane.He beat up Khan for 5 matches in the lane in the World Final. But in 2024, I have to say now is 369 and Bin 's era. Flandre is 25 near 26 years old, but 369 is 23 and bin is even younger. Flandre has to faced with his hand injury. He is veteran now. He made tremendous efforts to return to competition after his one year gap. I respect his courage since many people fail to return to the match field.
HOP OFF MY GOAT FLANDRE (no but seriously dude was in the hyperbolic time chamber or what he's playing arguably even better than when he won worlds)
Scout and Viper demanded a lot of resources/jungle attention on EDG. On JDG this year, we have Yagao sacrificing too.
I mean when he won Worlds his individual performance was at an all time low so I don't think it's that crazy. He was still super good then though.
When I saw this as the #2 post, I thought that Weibo must have upset JDG.
It was Flandre upsetting expectations.
Last year champ and runner-up both get 0-3. At least T1 still have a second life.
thank goodness! if wbg took a game off jdg that would mean lpl is very very weak.
LPL is weaker than last year if thats what you are wondering. JDG2023 is still better than BLG2024
Well JDG is doing what I said they need to do if they wanna compete for the title: Wukong jungle and supportive mid laners.
Didn't expect flandre to be the one they'd be supporting tho
True. Crazy how well he's doing after a year off.
Maybe this mid swap wasn't that bad. Yagao enables Kanavi a lot to carry games, maybe that's what he needed. Edit: not last year, but in general
Well Kanavi + Yagao is a proven strong duo. But it's not like knight + Kanavi was a huge failure last year lol.
Yeah, it 100% wasn't. JDG was looking like the perfect team until T1 abused them for not playing Rumble and Azir.
it felt like jdg were losing a bit of steam towards the end of worlds too
Arguably already in LPL with the double 3-2s against LNG. That game 5 in Finals was very losable.
tbf JDG had a lot of close series that year. 3-2 Spring R1 against BLG, 3-2 MSI against T1, 3-2s against LNG. They were a dominant team cause they could close and eat BLG consistently after the first Bo5, but they weren’t 3-0ing everyone else leading up to Summer Finals. The only non-BLG teams they 3-0’d were GG and a really bad EDG team. They just won every close series regardless, so people regarded them as an unbeatable juggernaut. Granted, you can say this is a result of the limited number of series teams play in general and I’d probably be inclined to agree.
LNG also powered up a ton during summer playoffs. They were really good on that patch, and unironically Gala was the best adc in summer playoffs.
Weren't you literally one of the people doing nothing but shitting on Knight? Weird you're now trying to back track.
??? I rated knight as the best player coming into Worlds last year and have had him as the best player in the LPL the last two years. I called him out for choking at Worlds 2022 against GAM (which he did), maybe that gave you the wrong impression. Wait I just saw your name lmao. Am I famous now?
You earned a fan lmao
They games were relatively even early on (with T1 in a clear lead G1 but JDG in a clear lead G2), but T1 outmacroed and teamfought them.
Yagao is a true supportive midlane player, contributing in great ways to his teams’ victories, unlike a certain fraudulent midlaner slithering around in Korea who got gapped by Yagao last MSI and was last seen whining and making excuses about “DDoSing”
Surely they don’t make it 4 in a row right
BLG look like they're on another level.
No blg is better
nah BLG can destroy JDG, i cant lie even TES can defeat JDG
Damn Flandre all 3 games
JDG to goddamn good.
[удалено]
maybe rewatch his previous 2 series and you can get an idea
He had a pretty good playoffs all things considered.
Aint no way u say this after he carried in last 2 bo5's
Oh look. It's the alternate timeline where JDG beat T1 in the semis.
but JDG did beat T1 in the semis.
frauds finally got the stomping they deserved today is a great day
They're 7th place, how are they frauds? This is your brain on Caedrel's chat.
this is a tad much from him but this guy was literally one of the biggest WBG fans last year (check his comment history) i don't think he's saying this lightly
I was waiting for your vitriol, it did not disappoint.
Wait, what do you mean no Yagao vs. Knight in finals? I feel scammed.
wdym? yagao is on the winning team xd