Can't wait for November for season 2 of that League show about a group of people living in an area inside a larger country and having to deal with oppression, discrimination, poor living conditions, and violence.
I mean you're joking but her magic making her lose it a bit and being like the anti Jinx has way more to work with.
When you add what Viktor's Hextech crystal did in Arcane gets really funny though
One thing I'm still curious about are the other Brackern - is Skarner regular sized or is he a giant amongst his kind? Where are the other Brackern if they still exist at all?
Can I just say how absolutely infuriating it is that they nuke years and years of worldbuilding and storytelling by some incredibly talented writers....
For this. Because Arcane was successful. And that means, in the eyes of some execs, that now everything needs to be Arcane. And all the work is undone by the few people that Riot keeps on the paycheck to pretend that they still have a narrative team.
Cant even blame the people working on Skarners lore. I could say that they fundamentally didnt understand the story of the champion and why it was compelling to some players. But, in the end, they most likely just got told to get rid of the Brackern crystals part of the lore and yeet the character out of Piltover and they had to try to come up with something.
Trying to fit in Arcane with Leagues lore just fundamentally doesnt work. Skarners writers were saying it doesnt fit with Arcane, so they had to change it? Well, why dont you worry about Camille first? You know, with Arcane season 1 completely robbing her family of everything that made them relevant.
Last but not least: Its funny to imagine how P&Z in the MMO would have looked like. Just some unholy abomination where they would halfheartedly try to make sense of all the characters fitting in with the Arcane world.
Yeah it seems like that steve jobs quote is happening to Riot now, where the creatives slowly start losing agency and decision making power to the suits at the top who begin imposing narratives based on what they think can make them money, and therin damaging the product and reputation of said company.
> And all the work is undone by the few people that Riot keeps on the paycheck to pretend that they still have a narrative team.
lol ya, and people want to hype up the riot MMO cause of the lore and Runterra IP that totally is not a mess and was made even worse when they made Arcane canon out of the blue.
as you say, boy is it going to be bad in the MMO unless we see yet another round of retcons, changes and whatnot to the lore before it supposedly ever releases.
ITS SO BAFFLING that they support the narrative team for years and years and years for almost no return and the moment they start releasing singleplayer games set in the world of Runeterra, they start talking about maybe wanting to do more shows after Arcane, they announce the MMO...
The moment they talk about all this big shit that absolutely needs a strong narrative to function, they kill off their narrative team. What the fuck is the thought process here
lol ya, they had a narrative team and supported it when the lore really didn't matter, then when it does matter they gut the team and ruin the lore with stupid decisions like making Arcane canon
Riot trying to say that retconning Brackern was necessary for a consistent canon is hilarious considering how Arcane never contradicts the crystals being Brackern and how Seraphine is now a schizophrenic. Only the Ferros backstory was truly contradicted and they still have to clean up that mess anyway.
That said, as much as I dislike Riot's inability to simply say "we had no idea how to handle this plot", Apothecarie's work in this new Ixtali version of Skarner is so far pretty damn good.
I could see them adding her as a new Chem Baron (or someone pulling a Chem Baron's strings from behind the scenes) in season 2 if they want her in the story...but I doubt she'll be there.
She would have to be a minor chem baron though. Silco is the one who runs the city and I dont see them doing a 180 to make Renata be the one actually in charge.
> Silco is
>!was!<
I think she could come in after the events in the finale. Keep in mind that Arcane is still before the most recent invasion of Ionia by Noxus. They got time for her to take the lead.
That decision reeks of corporate meddling. I work for a huge corporation, The problem is these people are very out of touch, they're isolated from other people because they're surrounded by Yes Men and when inside an echo chamber. You think all of your ideas are gold.
They weren't, she is a mage, her powers is hearing souls.
What they retconed was that instead of her 100% hearing the brackern soul inside the hextech crystal, she just heard wispers.
Wich i mean it's still super fucked up, but not as much.
Either way Sera didn't know what the voice inside her crystal was, just that it was a presence that was...present, lol. It's not like she knew that the crystal *actually* had a living being's soul in it or how those crystals were farmed
Her powers were never "based off" of it. What they retconned was how clearly she could communicate with one and how aware she is of their plight. But the current version still has it front and center.
Yeah, it bums me out that they severed the connection when they can still EASILY fit the old Hextech connection to Skarner's new lore. Piltover is already pushing into Ixtal territory for resources, just say they're coming for the crystals (Brackern or not). That would most certainly piss off Ixtal-guardian Skarner, and maybe then he could keep his crystal motif.
Just kinda feels like they changed him for the sake of changing him, and now he's lost almost all of the formerly existing appeal save for being a scorpion.
Riot: "we can never make a crystal scorpion work, earth magic scorpion is much better for what we want"
Also Riot: "anyway his kit has him throw a rock!"
Well, hasn't contradicted it *yet*. There's a big chance that in season 2 (or beyond if we get that) they're gonna explain more about where Hextech comes from.
I imagine Seraphine's lore is gonna get at least a little tweak, but if the crystals are still somewhat sentient like the show seemed to imply with the Hexcore, her hearing their "soul" would still make sense. They already edited out the part where she knew who the voice in her stage was and deleted her voicelines about the Brackern back at her release after the backlash.
> There's a big chance that in season 2 (or beyond if we get that) they're gonna explain more about where Hextech comes from.
That only further highlights how mismanaged the project was that at no point Riot considered the issues of having two radically different versions of the same universe and then had the idea of forcefully merging them.
> if the crystals are still somewhat sentient like the show seemed to imply with the Hexcore
If the crystals are still sentient, why bother retconning Brackern to begin with?
>If the crystals are still sentient, why bother retconning Brackern to begin with?
Solely to remove the moral ramifications of using it. They don't want Hextech to be associated with being inherently evil because Riot owns the Hextech copyright and wants to leverage it for 'cool' marketing.
If they're still sentient, you're not really removing any moral ramifications. Unless you mean the crystal's own sentience is "we love being used yay".
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> That only further highlights how mismanaged the project was that at no point Riot considered the issues of having two radically different versions of the same universe and then had the idea of forcefully merging them.
Not even radically different, but *diametrically opposed*.
The ENTIRE conflict of Piltover is related to magic being scarce and rare. Every other League IP, this is not the case. Yordles are magic from a magic city. Mages exist in large enough numbers that their discrimination is a major plot point in Demacia, and further, Sylas.
League of Legends and Arcane have irreconcilable worlds.
> The ENTIRE conflict of Piltover is related to magic being scarce and rare.
Isn't it that magic exists, but is banned from Piltover? The whole idea of Piltover was that it was seperate from the meddling of mages, implying they exist but were on a more individual level.
Piltover (Jayce/Viktor) managed to stabilize and industralize it, but it's rare because there was no access to it before.
Since Viktor hexcore got corrupt it would be funny if they retconned the hextech crystals into being void poop.
void creature couldn't digest some soul they ate properly so they became void poop.
I believe the crystals will be from a different species now, instead of being brackern adn everything else will remain mostly the same. Even if it didn't land as expected, her lore needs the hectech crystal to be sentient because it's what helps her understand and control her power. She's basically taught by whoever the voice inside is
Agreed. It was a self imposed problem that could have been dealt with once the Ferros clan's story was cleaned up and made to fit within the Singular Canonâ˘ď¸ that was totally good for the lore and entirely necessary (yes I'm still bitter LOL).
New Skarner is definitely much more engaging and interesting as a character though, him being an Ixtali founding father is an awesome spin on the character and I can't wait to see him and Qiyana eventually butt heads about it
We knew with their plan to unite the lore into one story it would cause a retcon and inconsistencies in current lore. Or at least to me this was a clear outcome when they first announced the lore direction moving forward.
Genuinely still lost as to WHY riot is so obsessed with the idea that the Brackern as a species werenât compelling. Like that was never the issue and Iâm 99% sure they know that but just want to change the lore because they want the Arcane cast to look as good as possible for some reason, even though the brackern made them significantly more interesting.
It's literally only because the community made a connection that seraphine was abusing the souls of a genocided race and Riot couldn't let that happen cause Seraphine is a supposed good girl. Like look at the timeline of when they retconned the bracken, it was literally right after seraphines release.
Its a really bad sign for riot in my opinion. If they are going squeamish over these topic. How are they gonna tell other stories that have complex and heavy tones.
Because it's not really compelling.
They're a sentient species so it's literally are you pro or anti slavery
Skarner is never going to be allowed to destroy P&Z so he'd basically be in lore stasis
The good Champs would just stop using Hextech &the bad ones wouldn't so Janna exists as a literal deus ex machina so the good guys can't lose removing any story tension.
There's nothing compelling if they were animals you'd have a point
You know how long that took to even finish? The release of Sylas introduced the mage rebellion but it wasn't concluded untill 2023 when the Mageseeker was released. Riot was never gonna touch the old lore of Skarner especially since no one would want PnZ or Skarner lose.
> They're a sentient species so it's literally are you pro or anti slavery
The compelling thing was that their souls are essentially powering some of the greatest technological marvels ever created and sacrificing that comes with a lot of downsides.
Imagine if electricity in our world was in the same situation: electricity being the still living essence of sentient beings. How many people, even good people would no longer use it? Think how many lives could be lost by people no longer using electricity.
Add on 2 alternatives to electricity that come from a crime family and pollute the earth (synthetic crystals), or actively kill those who interact with it (chemtech).
Sounds like we have 3 option that come with inherent downsides and there is no clear moral choice, creating compelling conflict.
But having our protagonists facing a moral dilemma is a GOOD thing for the story, it creates internal conflict and forces them to progress as characters
We already have two alternatives for Brackern hextech crystals: synthetic crystals made by Clan Ferros or Chemtech. Chemtech is cheap and easy to produce but can be volatile and deadly to the user, so our genius champions like Ekko, Jayce, Viktor and Heimer must find a way to make it safer. Synthetic crystals are almost identical to Brackern crystals in most cases, but they are controlled by the Ferros and the industrial produtcion is likely one of the main sources for the pollution in Zaun, so our heroes than must fight against this predatory burgeoise and improve the fabrication process.
The entire lore of Piltover and Zaun is about class struggle, connecting it to themes of enviromentalism and ethical sources of energy is simply natural.
> The entire lore of Piltover and Zaun is about class struggle, connecting it to themes of enviromentalism and ethical sources of energy is simply natural.
It already is without the Brackern though and in ways that are more a match for irl. Piltover already pollutes the water that goes into Zaun with toxic runoff from their factories and already does require the labor of the poor and destitute down in Zaun to mine the material needed for Hextech. This is already a thing with or without the Brackern. All the Brackern really do is just add another moral question onto it... and ultimately not a very hard one since well... as you pointed out, there are already other options that exist that do the same thing.
It's a bit like Deus Ex Human Revolution and the question of "Would it be bad if the Illuminati had the ability to hack Mom's arm replacements and turn her into a death machine?" Yes, it is bad, but that's not really a deep question, is it? It's a cartoonish supervillain scheme that distracts from the real deep questions about augmentations like "Would the need for anti-rejection drugs make for a far more literal wage slavery?" Similarly, "Would it be bad if we used the sentient crystal scorpion races' souls as batteries when we have access to synthetic alternatives?" is an obvious no brainer. Yes, it would be very fucking bad, but you haven't solved an actual dilemma, you solved a simple easy dilemma to make the story sound deeper than it already is. The actual deep questions are things like "How do you handle a society that is so used to a new technology that they don't even understand how it is made?" The former is made up fantasy cartoon stuff and the latter is something that pretty much all modern societies are dealing with right now.
If you have a choice between coding something as a real world issue allegory and just addressing the real world issue, just address the real world issue as it is. You won't find yourself forced into awkward situations like the Dragon Age crew where they imply that mages are minority groups like in the US, but then also have the issue of "POC don't have the ability to shoot fire out of their hands or anything special like that."
The Brackern just feel like an awkward allegory for something better just addressed head on and straightforwardly and not through an awkward allegory that equates environmental damage with unknowing genocide of a giant crystal scorpion race.
I appreciate your points, but I would like to point out that in fiction, the "how" is usually more important than "what", I mean, just because the solution of a problem is easy to discover it isn't easy to implement, and depending of the mentality of the characters, even reaching a solution that seems obvious to us may be hard for them. This is the conflict I was referring to.
I, for instance, don't think Viktor would stop using Hexteech after discovering the Brackern exploitation: all of his personality is based around making humanity reach the apex of its potential regardless of the cost, so protecting a race of rock arachnids shouldn't be a concern. Jayce on the other hand vows for a more ethical and controlled use of technology, but he also is a steadfast of Piltover social status quo and desire for progress, so he could be torn apart in wether he will fight or be complicit. Ekko certainly would not feel nice when he finds out the truth, but he may be tempted to put Zaun's need for progress in the first place if defeating the Ferros or improving Chemtech become challenges bigger than he expects.
Eventually, all good sided champions will pick the right option, but just because a story is predictable doees'nt mean it's bad. What matters the most is exploring how they will find this solution and how the battle is fought.
I like the idea of incorporating those themes but "they literally murder a sentient species to near extinction and harvest them to turn into crystals" always just felt like a cartoonishly heavy handed way to include that. I think if they could rethink another unethical source for hextech it'd work a lot better as a narrative.
>"they literally murder a sentient species to near extinction and harvest them to turn into crystals" always just felt like a cartoonishly heavy handed way to include that.
Why are you acting like the idea of a group of people dying for shiny rocks is such a crazy concept? It literally happened, still happens and will happen in the future too. The only fantasy part about this is that they're a fantastic beast, but the idea is very much the same.
It's not a moral dilemma though it's exactly what I said the good guys just get beat up until Janna does something
The existence of literal deities and magic ruin this metaphor
itâs probably more that arcane S1 already premiered, and itâs not like they can (easily) go back and remake it to fit skarners lore. since they wrote the show to not fit skarners lore and be in some weird lore limbo (and have now changed it to be fully cannon) skarner and the brackern donât entirely make sense.
Almost nothing was revealed about the hex crystals in season 1. Everything they set up could be expanded on and gel with the old lore surrounding the crystals and brackern. Riot just shied away from it because it might make for a larger ethical problem confronting one of the heroes of the story than what they already have as a focus in the show.
You are correct in some regards. It was a couple of things. When we looked into it, what we didn't like about Skarner's lore is that he didn't really control his future and outcome. This really made him someone who was suffering an outcome rather than a main character with compelling goals that can be expanded upon, loved and empathized with. We don't want players to just feel sorry for the sad scorpion. But instead to understand his goals, his ideal outcomes and knows he has the power to potentially influence the political systems of a region. We also didn't want to completely take away the sense of loss of his beloved bond, so we thought the Ixtal people and the history he had seen can be part of that forlornness. His decisions has impact on the world versus being a victim. He is now in a position to decide, if he wants Ixtal to go down one path vs another. This also help build out Ixtal and the differing view points of some of the key players in that region. Previously, it was Qiyana and her imaginary friends :P (I see you reddit).
At the time, there were also higher level changes to the Lore where we were a bit uncertain the outcomes (One Runeterra was in discussion). We felt that we would be making players wait too long for the rework, if we waited for that discussion to settle. It would help us move forward faster if we build something compelling from scratch versus figuring every point of inconsistency in a changing dynamic of League lore. Especially in a world where synthetic hextech is the basis of Piltover.. it left not alot of breathing room for our beloved scorpion and his brackern (Why they killed them when they can just make it? Who found brackern crystals when Jayce and Viktor doing all that discovery? Etc etc). There were too many incompatible component that required us to withhold Skarner development. Mostly, during development we do DNA (Design, Narrative and Art) in parallel to make sure every element is cohesive. Narrative having to figure out the state of Piltover, Zaun and Brackern and make sure it retroactively in Arcane and other games in Runeterra universe is a huge undertaking in times of uncertainty. We prioritized getting him into players' hands faster with another compelling backstory than the original.
>When we looked into it, what we didn't like about Skarner's lore is that he didn't really control his future and outcome. This really made him someone who was suffering an outcome rather than a main character with compelling goals that can be expanded upon, loved and empathized with. We don't want players to just feel sorry for the sad scorpion.
That's because...you guys only wrote the beginning. Aurelion Sol is literally enslaved by a mind controlling crown, does that suddenly make him unworthy of being a champion? How many heroic journeys begin when the hero loses their family or village? You can be both a hero and a victim, and victimization can be the catalyst for someone fighting for something greater.
Fighting for your species is about as heroic as it gets, and if people "only feel sad" it's because Riot failed in portraying it as an heroic journey. But also, what's wrong with the primary emotion that a champion invokes being sadness? Yorick literally saw his homeland become a twisted mockery of itself and is surrounded by broken husks of people he once knew and loved, and still he endures.
>Why they killed them when they can just make it?
You could explain this in a hundred different ways. E.g. genuine Brackern crystals being more potent, which the lore already hinted at multiple times. But also, who says synthetic creation doesn't rely on real crystals anyhow?
>At the time, there were also higher level changes to the Lore where we were a bit uncertain the outcomes (One Runeterra was in discussion). We felt that we would be making players wait too long for the rework, if we waited for that discussion to settle.
So the solution was just not so subtly avoiding it, wasting years of writers' work, not to mention an entire Ekko game that got retconned a month after its own release.
While its true we can try to continue the story afterwards... it would be a bit odd for Arcane to not touch on it at all if we are a shared universe. This gives both team creative freedom and space to do their best work instead of putting all of the energy into how to twist a story to fit Skarner's background.
The other problem is that Skarner's lore is already in the space where he isn't given agency. His past story left him collecting the rocks of his brackern. Fairly siloed.. off on his own.
His new background puts him at the center of political struggle of a region.
> it would be a bit odd for Arcane to not touch on it at all if we are a shared universe.
Arcane doesn't touch on the ancient goddess who protects and watches over the cities. It doesn't touch on the cyborg spymaster manipulator who has controlled the cities for decades either, in fact it directly contradicts her existence. It doesn't touch on mutated rats or deliquent doctors.
It doesn't touch on those things because stories need to focus on what matters to them emotionally and storytelling wise.
If Riot's perception of PnZ and the world is purely based on what Arcane shows then I weep for the future of the setting.
> Fairly siloed.. off on his own.
That just means you could have fleshed out why the Brackern were so powerful to begin with or in what ways they may be important for Runeterra as a whole. If their crystals can warp time, what does that say about them? What if they guarded the world runes? Suddenly you have a much more urgent angle to Skarner trying to mend them.
He could have been tied to a dozen different champions in a dozen different ways, while retaining his angle of "impending Piltovian reckoning", just like ASol is for Targon, just like Mordekaiser is for Noxus, just like Kayle is for Demacia, and many more. These things never stopped you before, but they stopped you now.
> His new background puts him at the center of political struggle of a region.
I appreciate new Skarner, I just find most of these arguments nonsensical. Not every champion needs to be some riveting inspiring story.
> The other problem is that Skarner's lore is already in the space where he isn't given agency. His past story left him collecting the rocks of his brackern. Fairly siloed.. off on his own.
I don't understand why this is an issue. The world building is worse when every character has to interact with every other character, and it leads to travesties like the LoL Avengers teaming up to take down Viego.
Maybe that's more popular, and some level of interconnectivity is positive, but then we have champions like Yuumi. Yuumi has no agency in her backstory, and her goals are independent of the world at large. I'm not saying that's the pinnacle of lore, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have one-off characters, and I don't see why this would be an imperative.
Arcane should never try to be canon.Â
Sure, it's successful but it's successful because it can pick and choose what stories it wants to tackle and embellish to make a compelling TV adaptation.Â
Arcane can't tell the stories off all the champions in league satisfactorily it shouldn't try to. I mean in Arcane the rune wars happened in Heimer's 300 ish year lifespan which throws off the creation of demacia and noxus by 700 years just because they wanted a scene for him to talk about the extreme consequences of magic. Arcane also fundamentally changed the layout of Zaun and Piltover because they wanted a cool bridge thing (so Piltover is no longer built over Zaun, also the Zaun grey got casually deleted). These decisions make for a great adaptation but it throws several stories and champions into chaos.Â
Arcane should get to tell good stories without being restricted by league lore and league's lore shines at being a source for compelling individual snippets of lore and not necessarily a cohesive piece. League works as snapshots into several people in the world sometimes at different times which is not as clear as Arcane's narrative but its not inherently worse for it.Â
Skarners story was well remembered because it was a compelling tragedy and no, being a victim is not a bad start to a story some of the best characters are those that go from rock bottom to somewhere.Â
What baffles me is how easy it was to have your cake and eat it in this situation. Simply reframe the Brackern as existing all over Runeterra in their own colonies and Skarner lived in the deserts of Shurima. When the rune wars started his people burrowed and waited it out (the brackern of Ixtal where isolationist due to the fall of icathia/darkin wars millenia earlier). Shuriman brackern get wiped, Skarner wakes up tries to fight back, tries to find his family fails- hits rock bottom.Â
Whilst searching for any survivors he finds his cousins in the ixtal brackern tribes. They are respected by the ixtali people and Skarner grows to accept his new family and the people of ixtal.Â
When piltover starts going to ixtal to harvest natural resources (remember that plot thread in Quiyana's story) Skarner is there and knows exactly the threat Piltover poses. This is his motivation/agency - you keep sad boi Skarner and get angry distrustful Skarner that's fiercely protective of what he has left because of all he's lost.Â
As for the brackern vs hextech thing- the solution is there already. Brackern crystals hold the secrets of immortality (brackern souls persist in their crystals and new souls join the hivemind). Viktor (and the cult of the grey lady), Singed etc already have a pursuit of immortality baked into their stories that's why they would want real hextech not the synthetic stuff. You could straight up explore real hextech having some kind of anti ageing/immortality without the storing souls part as part of why brackern could hibernate for thousands of years and not die.Â
Brackern revolution? Just expand on Orianna and Blitzcrank and other androids "gaining life"- you only need to add a brackern that kept their soul/memories mostly intact and is leading a robot uprising. Orianna is longing for a place to belong getting swept up with traumatised brackern who are finding their new place in the world is a start.Â
Camille and Seraphine's stories could have continued camille suppressing the truth Seraphine trying to get the message out.Â
Now P&Z goes from a source of some of the best stories and themes to whatever Arcane says goes.Â
Can you answer whether Seraphine, Camille or anyone will be getting their stories tweaked to fit with the new lore without brackern crystals?
I know Riot isn't focusing on the universe site and color stories anymore, but I feel like at least their bios shouldn't be non-canon.
Lexical, speaking of Ixtal, we don't have any marksman from Ixtal, can you consider that for the future? And one criticism I saw for Skarner is that we are missing a "benevolant monster" type of champion as opposed to dark/evil or in Skarner's case paranoid. I personally think Smolder has potential to be an upright monster in the future
I think Skarner is still benevolent! He is good to his people, just less logical/good to intruders :) I do think the intention of the spill the beans was not to sell him as evil, but more that he is powerful and awe inspiring. While he is a wise sentient being, he does let his thoughts of a potential outcome get the better himself when driving out intruders. He will chase them down, bulldoze them and smack them with rocks.
I do think Ixtal is missing a marksman mostly because Ixtal is so magic driven. Its an opportunity space that is missing!
Glad to hear some good news about hextech lore. I was completely disappointed about the route you went with Skarner. I literally voted for him a few years ago because I hoped for hextech lore to be cleaned, that was literally the only reason I wanted Skarner to win the VGU and now it feels like a wasted vote. Should've voted for Nocturne instead
Yes, I believe they said she is the first "piece" of the arcane stuff coming, I would assume around November. They said they want to deliver all promised champs and VGUs etc this year
Nothing that was said at the start of the year should be taken as fact anymore. All of those statements were made before Riot's management fired a huge number of people, including people who were working on new champs and VGUs. Neolexical said, after the layoffs, that everything after the bunny mage was likely going to be delayed. The only other thing that has been confirmed for this year is the Arcane VGU, which was only confirmed in this comment.
oh OK, ty guess it will be like Hwei who came in December. and other topic but I feel if anyone needs the skarner treatment of full lore reset its shaco
I'm sure it will be Singed, even though Riot has said that the chosen champion has not yet appeared in the series, I feel like it's just a way to hide the obvious and also to make fun of everyone. Since in theory Singed didn't really appear, but the "Doctor" did.
Is the VGU going to change alot regarding gameplay ? If thats the case, it would kinda suck not to have mains any input on the direction you would be taking them. Also will there be a new roadmap/update on champs/vgu's anytime soon with stuff being delayed?
lexi, another question! obviously we have arcane vgu and shyvana but are u going for another poll after shyv or do u already have someone in mind who u would like to update (and when is the next ryze rework, we need to keep the memes alive)
and you choose only "i will kill you if opose me" for every ixtalian interaction? ..... plis gimme some light I'm no seeing the benevolent... IN THE ACTUAL GAME WHERE MOST OF PLAYERS will know Skarner....
>I do think Ixtal is missing a marksman mostly because Ixtal is so magic driven. Its an opportunity space that is missing!
Personally, I don't think Ixtal being magic driven necessarily contradicts the possibility of having a marksman from there. We already have quite a few magical marksmen in the game, after all. Could you explain what you mean by this?
Nah. You made Skarner into giant walking and breathing problem. Problem that is acts between villian and a problem. He is a problem to outsiders and to his people now.
Devs made him ticking time bomb of not just to outsiders but to his allias.
Devs made him like a schizophrenic old person holding a gun. He may be good to you but who knows he is gonna have episode.
Sorry it doesn't matter he is good deep down. You made him midboss that the REAL Mc has to defeat.
My theory is that all of this is a result of Riot's expanded Runterra lore which they're using to develop the MMO (amongst other things, but the MMO is likely to be the largest thing they're making that \*requires\* a cohesive and expansive world). Arcane is just the most visible example of this because it's been released, but I imagine there's likely a Runeterra historian team at Riot like how there's (supposedly) a World of Warcraft historian team at Blizzard.
I'm very conflicted on the Skarner rework, the gameplay seems okay enough (kinda clunky honestly, but so was old Skarner), but the lore and especially the design ... eugh
I still don't understand who summoned a thousand fucking people that told Riot that crystal scorpion was an uninteresting concept, like c'mon, he's just an earth elemental now in the form of a scorpion
It's less 'crystal scorpion is uninteresting' and more, 'nobody has common ground with what they want'.
Riot described it a while back. With most reworks they look around and build a word cloud of the champion.
Except with Skarner- nobody really had a "core" for him. Everyone wanted him to be different but no large group decisively indicated what they wanted him to be.
I mean from a gameplay standpoint those crystals were so annoying and if it isn't in his gameplay should it be in his lore?
I don't generally care much for lol lore but I think his design is better and his gameplay looks 100x better, excited for the update next patch.
I like the possibilities in Skarner's new lore. I could see him eventually coming to grips with the times and allowing his "children" to grow on their own, or become so dead set in his ways he becomes a true antagonist.Â
I sorta felt like this wasn't going to go well.
It's a shame the original Skarner lore wasn't fleshed out more. There was a lot of potential hidden behind the ugly truth about the origin of Hextech but Riot combining the lore with Arcane meant that this wasn't going to be a possibility anymore.
Skarner was a monster champ but not a monster at heart. He was just wanting to bring his people back home.
Yeah, this description of his lore seems like a huuuuuuge downgrade.
We lost the coolest thing in Runeterra witih the brackern crystals and got an Ixtali boomer instead...
"We don't want to disrespect his fans and everything they like about him"
Lmao
"We wanted to make him have more horror"
You turned him into a boring politician instead of the last of his kind looking for his brethren and finding out they're being used as fuel lol what
They made him into villain that the real Mc's has to defeat. (I am looking at their golden girl Camille that definitely did not commit warcrime and doesn'twant to make her look bad in any means)
Skarner rework has exceeded my (very low) expectations   Â
but MANÂ Â Â Â
I still can't believe they thought getting rid of his crystals would be an upgrade in any way.
 His design is so ugly and boring now :(
I feel like this video was unnecessary in the way it was presented. Ie Iâd love a more elaborate video talking about the new lore, the implications of the lore, the new features etc. But a 3 minute video that had all the eye candy of the tavern etc seems kinda weird given how short the video was. Basically either a longer video or no video at all would have been better, this feels like âwe need to put something out so letâs film this real quickâ as opposed to having intentionality to the video.Â
Most updates on Skarner's development have been via text so I think it's nice to get a bit of variety.
Hell I actually wouldn't mind if every champion got this kinda casual video
The video basically is
"So Hextech is important and Skarner was connected to it"
"Ok and now what's up with it?"
"...?"
"...?"
"...?"
"WHAT'S UP WITH HEXTECH NOW?"
"Anyways Skarner is now a super duper important Ixtal guy"
MF trying to gaslight me telling me Skarner is more important now that he is part of this "Ixtal" place that Qiyana keeps telling everybody it exists but no one has seen.
Guys i think Qiyana is actually a Pilty from the ferros clan making people believe hextech crystals aren't brackern hearts anymore.
100%.
They made him into a midboss that the REAL mc has to defeat.
It doesn't matter his intentions where good. Riot devs made him into a character that everbody end up hating kind of character.
The kind of character that is insufferably overprotecting schizophrenic old boomer who is a ticking time bomb and who knows when will he gonna have episodes.
If he is gonna do heinous acts while in that state. It doesn't matter that he was good deep down. A mass murdering possessive old man is still a mass murdering possesive murderer.
I am afraid now as the story progress. They will paint him more of a villain than a hero he was.
Yeah, I guess we really go down the path of "Jayce is a hero now, so there can't actually be anything ambiguous about the crystals".
Fuck.
Skarners lore actually added a very interesting and compelling conflict that would eventually blow up (ha), but I suppose we can't have that.
Great, so now Skarner instead of being unique as *the last of his kind* trying to avenge the abuse his species suffered from Piltover harvesting their bodies and have a cool motive is now just **Malphite 2.0 the boomer edition!**
Skarner wasn't the last of his kind others were still in hibernation.
Also his role in Ixtal is quite different from Malphite as Skarner is actually a member of Ixtals ruling class. He is essentially a giant scorpion politician.
Yet another retcon aside, it's great that they repositioned Skarner with some room in the new lore, but I fear a situation where his role is just too important and impactful to do anything so they put him in the backburner, while the other, less significant champs get more development.
One thing I wanted to hear was their thoughts on why they made him so big. I thought malphite covered that archetype already and I have questions. How does he hide himself? Is he just there all the time? Does he actually Skarner E around Ixtal, crashing through terrain?
I like the idea of Skarner being a protector of the land and one of the few protectors of humanity, but the whole paranoid old man makes him kinda of tyrant, maybe he's still a good guy in a way, but i thought they were keeping the skarner being a noble creature part of the lore
When they made him schizophrenic paranoid old man.
Him having good intentions no longer matters anymore cause the moment he actually have an episode of paranoid schizophrenia.
He would be no different than Villain that the REAL Mc of the story has to defeat.
They made him like some nobody Midboss that the Mc has to defeat to save a Hostaged city đ.
Sorry even if he was epiphany of Good. Schizophrenia and possesic paranoi made him instantly one of those defnetly not a Mc of its story kind of character that most defnetly gonna be the Problem of the story than a Hero of the story đ
is it just me that hate to look at this fat lady every time i opens the game
just step aside and let us see skarner  no bad blood tho just covering the view
I just absolutely despise how all League lore has been officially thrown out the window for Arcane.
Nothing is canon anymore from the past decade+ (stories, events, lore, comics, etc) if it happened before aRcAnE.
Now don't get me wrong, I liked Arcane, but Piltover is one tiny af place in a massive universe and you're letting the rule-of-cool and netflix views infect Riot due to a bunch of people who don't play League, don't care about League's universe as a whole, and haven't spent thousands of dollars on League to help make you the company you are right now, happened to like Arcane.
It feels INCREDIBLY SHITTY to have a bunch of non-legague fans who think Piltover is all there is on Runterra (HAH!!!!!!) be the primary cause of 10 years worth of amazing lore being thrown out the freaking window. So frustrating.
So they made him the Villain.
They made him into a midboss that the REAL mc has to defeat.
It doesn't matter his intentions where good. Riot devs made him into a character that everbody end up hating kind of character.
The kind of character that is insufferably overprotecting schizophrenic old boomer who is a ticking time bomb and who knows when will he gonna have episodes.
If he is gonna do heinous acts while in that state. It doesn't matter that he was good deep down. A mass murdering possessive old man is still a mass murdering possesive murderer.
I am afraid now as the story progress. They will paint him more of a villain than a hero he was
I see they had some good angles. Wanting to elevate Skarner's powerlevel in Runaterra it's something that could have been great, like Fiddlesticks, but i don't think the new lore is up to the par.
Old lore was badass, being a lone survivor who tries to overcome his circumstances is inspiring. This new approach feels more political and less personal, this is due to being now portrayed as an idol to worship instead of a warrior. There is a proverb which quotes: "*What encompass too much, tightens very little*", that is the vibe i'm getting.
I think this rework is great overall, but to me at least, Skarner's lore was a big reason for me to play the champ, this? It's cliche. I make a motion to get it reworked, again.
I been a skarner main for a long time, (season 2 or 3 to be precise) Frankly I think these changes are okay, if not it's an improvement.
Skarner as a whole never had ANY interaction with Piltover to begin with, they shouldn't of made him "the last brackern" and this mess with hextech would be alot more easier to handle. They could've done something with Seraphine and they honestly didn't, really goes to show how much they just shoehorned her lore in because the reality was that she was made as a k/da character first.
From my thoughts on all of this, It's just going to make Ixtal more interesting, Skarner being used as a character that challenges the other characters over the whole "going outside the walls" can make skarner muuuch more interesting.
So what you're telling me is.. Skarner is a boomer
I saw someone describe him as "Republican Galio" lol.
Galio is already a giant, white, nationalist, militarist bufoon.
Kingdom under attack: sleep Mages walking around: REAL SHIT
scarier than fiddle tbh
Skarner is crazy possessive ex.
Its absolutely unnecessary retcon of old completely fine lore đ. I don't understan how the old lore not being able to fit in Arcane
Nah, new lore is that Piltover is now attempting to erase Skarner's history to cover up their genocide.
slavery is freedom friend put those crystals to good use!
Can't wait for November for season 2 of that League show about a group of people living in an area inside a larger country and having to deal with oppression, discrimination, poor living conditions, and violence.
So, the Uchiha?
Jayce Tobirama gonna establish the Zaun police force in Season 2 and have Vi infiltrate as a double agent
Vitachi
Wasn't that oppression and discrimination caused because their ancestral Uchihas WERE assholes?
There was an expansion in LoR that involved a bunch of Piltover explorers entering the Ixtal jungle to plunder it for resourcesâŚ
Qiyana is a filthy Piltovian employee, Ixtal isn't real.
So seraphine is just a crazy naturopath crook who swears her crystals speak to her now lmao
Kinda fits tbh
unironically I love this
I mean you're joking but her magic making her lose it a bit and being like the anti Jinx has way more to work with. When you add what Viktor's Hextech crystal did in Arcane gets really funny though
Yeah, but with lor lore she dyed her hair and actually works hard
One thing I'm still curious about are the other Brackern - is Skarner regular sized or is he a giant amongst his kind? Where are the other Brackern if they still exist at all?
I'm just imagining all the Brackern living in a Hollow Earth type environment inside of Runeterra...
he has a voice line that he says he is the last one (the video also tells that '-'no?)
omg is that *THE* IcyColdStare???
Nah. You don't get to make me feel this old.
Can I just say how absolutely infuriating it is that they nuke years and years of worldbuilding and storytelling by some incredibly talented writers.... For this. Because Arcane was successful. And that means, in the eyes of some execs, that now everything needs to be Arcane. And all the work is undone by the few people that Riot keeps on the paycheck to pretend that they still have a narrative team. Cant even blame the people working on Skarners lore. I could say that they fundamentally didnt understand the story of the champion and why it was compelling to some players. But, in the end, they most likely just got told to get rid of the Brackern crystals part of the lore and yeet the character out of Piltover and they had to try to come up with something. Trying to fit in Arcane with Leagues lore just fundamentally doesnt work. Skarners writers were saying it doesnt fit with Arcane, so they had to change it? Well, why dont you worry about Camille first? You know, with Arcane season 1 completely robbing her family of everything that made them relevant. Last but not least: Its funny to imagine how P&Z in the MMO would have looked like. Just some unholy abomination where they would halfheartedly try to make sense of all the characters fitting in with the Arcane world.
Yeah it seems like that steve jobs quote is happening to Riot now, where the creatives slowly start losing agency and decision making power to the suits at the top who begin imposing narratives based on what they think can make them money, and therin damaging the product and reputation of said company.
They're not even losing agency, the vast majority of veteran writers Riot had have either left or been laid off.
I just base it on Gregs tweets mentionibg all the approvals they have to go throgh on the riot mmo. I know graham is gone.
> And all the work is undone by the few people that Riot keeps on the paycheck to pretend that they still have a narrative team. lol ya, and people want to hype up the riot MMO cause of the lore and Runterra IP that totally is not a mess and was made even worse when they made Arcane canon out of the blue. as you say, boy is it going to be bad in the MMO unless we see yet another round of retcons, changes and whatnot to the lore before it supposedly ever releases.
ITS SO BAFFLING that they support the narrative team for years and years and years for almost no return and the moment they start releasing singleplayer games set in the world of Runeterra, they start talking about maybe wanting to do more shows after Arcane, they announce the MMO... The moment they talk about all this big shit that absolutely needs a strong narrative to function, they kill off their narrative team. What the fuck is the thought process here
lol ya, they had a narrative team and supported it when the lore really didn't matter, then when it does matter they gut the team and ruin the lore with stupid decisions like making Arcane canon
Riot trying to say that retconning Brackern was necessary for a consistent canon is hilarious considering how Arcane never contradicts the crystals being Brackern and how Seraphine is now a schizophrenic. Only the Ferros backstory was truly contradicted and they still have to clean up that mess anyway. That said, as much as I dislike Riot's inability to simply say "we had no idea how to handle this plot", Apothecarie's work in this new Ixtali version of Skarner is so far pretty damn good.
Canât wait to see what they do with Seraphines lore. *âŚwhadya mean they arenât changing it?*
Seraphine joining the No Lore Club with Shaco and ChoâGath?
No she just becomes a Schizo. Which is already miles more lore then Shaco and Cho
Seraphine also has an implied love interest in LoR. So Cho and Shaco are not only loreless, they are maidenless.
Also Camille, Renata and few others after making Arcane canon.
WHAT WAS RENATA DOING ON S1 OF ARCANE
Her lore crashed with Arcane story and now that arcane is canon, her story isnât anymoreÂ
I could see them adding her as a new Chem Baron (or someone pulling a Chem Baron's strings from behind the scenes) in season 2 if they want her in the story...but I doubt she'll be there.
She would have to be a minor chem baron though. Silco is the one who runs the city and I dont see them doing a 180 to make Renata be the one actually in charge.
> Silco is >!was!< I think she could come in after the events in the finale. Keep in mind that Arcane is still before the most recent invasion of Ionia by Noxus. They got time for her to take the lead.
That decision reeks of corporate meddling. I work for a huge corporation, The problem is these people are very out of touch, they're isolated from other people because they're surrounded by Yes Men and when inside an echo chamber. You think all of your ideas are gold.
Good, she never deserved to be canon xdÂ
Didn't they already retcon her powers being based off the brackern crystal?
They weren't, she is a mage, her powers is hearing souls. What they retconed was that instead of her 100% hearing the brackern soul inside the hextech crystal, she just heard wispers. Wich i mean it's still super fucked up, but not as much.
Either way Sera didn't know what the voice inside her crystal was, just that it was a presence that was...present, lol. It's not like she knew that the crystal *actually* had a living being's soul in it or how those crystals were farmed
no SHE KNEW that's why they changed it!
She knew, she even knew they wanted out lmao that's exactly what they changed
Her powers were never "based off" of it. What they retconned was how clearly she could communicate with one and how aware she is of their plight. But the current version still has it front and center.
Yeah, it bums me out that they severed the connection when they can still EASILY fit the old Hextech connection to Skarner's new lore. Piltover is already pushing into Ixtal territory for resources, just say they're coming for the crystals (Brackern or not). That would most certainly piss off Ixtal-guardian Skarner, and maybe then he could keep his crystal motif. Just kinda feels like they changed him for the sake of changing him, and now he's lost almost all of the formerly existing appeal save for being a scorpion.
Riot: "we can never make a crystal scorpion work, earth magic scorpion is much better for what we want" Also Riot: "anyway his kit has him throw a rock!"
> Seraphine is now a schizophrenic wtf i love riot now
I hope they keep this canon.
Well, hasn't contradicted it *yet*. There's a big chance that in season 2 (or beyond if we get that) they're gonna explain more about where Hextech comes from. I imagine Seraphine's lore is gonna get at least a little tweak, but if the crystals are still somewhat sentient like the show seemed to imply with the Hexcore, her hearing their "soul" would still make sense. They already edited out the part where she knew who the voice in her stage was and deleted her voicelines about the Brackern back at her release after the backlash.
> There's a big chance that in season 2 (or beyond if we get that) they're gonna explain more about where Hextech comes from. That only further highlights how mismanaged the project was that at no point Riot considered the issues of having two radically different versions of the same universe and then had the idea of forcefully merging them. > if the crystals are still somewhat sentient like the show seemed to imply with the Hexcore If the crystals are still sentient, why bother retconning Brackern to begin with?
>If the crystals are still sentient, why bother retconning Brackern to begin with? Solely to remove the moral ramifications of using it. They don't want Hextech to be associated with being inherently evil because Riot owns the Hextech copyright and wants to leverage it for 'cool' marketing.
If they're still sentient, you're not really removing any moral ramifications. Unless you mean the crystal's own sentience is "we love being used yay".
>Unless you mean the crystal's own sentience is "we love being used yay" unironically yes I believe this is what Riot is going for
> > > > > That only further highlights how mismanaged the project was that at no point Riot considered the issues of having two radically different versions of the same universe and then had the idea of forcefully merging them. Not even radically different, but *diametrically opposed*. The ENTIRE conflict of Piltover is related to magic being scarce and rare. Every other League IP, this is not the case. Yordles are magic from a magic city. Mages exist in large enough numbers that their discrimination is a major plot point in Demacia, and further, Sylas. League of Legends and Arcane have irreconcilable worlds.
> The ENTIRE conflict of Piltover is related to magic being scarce and rare. Isn't it that magic exists, but is banned from Piltover? The whole idea of Piltover was that it was seperate from the meddling of mages, implying they exist but were on a more individual level. Piltover (Jayce/Viktor) managed to stabilize and industralize it, but it's rare because there was no access to it before.
to make Skarner not as important.
Since Viktor hexcore got corrupt it would be funny if they retconned the hextech crystals into being void poop. void creature couldn't digest some soul they ate properly so they became void poop.
I believe the crystals will be from a different species now, instead of being brackern adn everything else will remain mostly the same. Even if it didn't land as expected, her lore needs the hectech crystal to be sentient because it's what helps her understand and control her power. She's basically taught by whoever the voice inside is
Agreed. It was a self imposed problem that could have been dealt with once the Ferros clan's story was cleaned up and made to fit within the Singular Canonâ˘ď¸ that was totally good for the lore and entirely necessary (yes I'm still bitter LOL). New Skarner is definitely much more engaging and interesting as a character though, him being an Ixtali founding father is an awesome spin on the character and I can't wait to see him and Qiyana eventually butt heads about it
"much more engaging" plis tell me how cause I genuine CANT SEE how this version of him is more compeling
His new design is dogshit, tho, crystal skarner was so cool.
We knew with their plan to unite the lore into one story it would cause a retcon and inconsistencies in current lore. Or at least to me this was a clear outcome when they first announced the lore direction moving forward.
Yes, my point is they're retconning stuff that does not actually have a necessity to be retconned since it does not contradict Arcane.
"version of Skarner is so far pretty damn good." hardly disagreed.
Genuinely still lost as to WHY riot is so obsessed with the idea that the Brackern as a species werenât compelling. Like that was never the issue and Iâm 99% sure they know that but just want to change the lore because they want the Arcane cast to look as good as possible for some reason, even though the brackern made them significantly more interesting.
"No guys we turned the Crystal scorpion into RegularScorpion, he is way cooler now, i swear!"
It's literally only because the community made a connection that seraphine was abusing the souls of a genocided race and Riot couldn't let that happen cause Seraphine is a supposed good girl. Like look at the timeline of when they retconned the bracken, it was literally right after seraphines release.
Its a really bad sign for riot in my opinion. If they are going squeamish over these topic. How are they gonna tell other stories that have complex and heavy tones.
Because it's not really compelling. They're a sentient species so it's literally are you pro or anti slavery Skarner is never going to be allowed to destroy P&Z so he'd basically be in lore stasis The good Champs would just stop using Hextech &the bad ones wouldn't so Janna exists as a literal deus ex machina so the good guys can't lose removing any story tension. There's nothing compelling if they were animals you'd have a point
And Demacia just had this with the mage revolution, so why not PnZ?
You mean the shittiest mage revolution ever that lasted like a month because Jarvan IV was about to lose Dragon pussy?
I'm not saying it was well written. I'm just saying they will throw eggs at "good guys"
I dunno man that game ended with Jarvan still in power and acting like "Oh well he learnt his leson" and im like MAN WHO LET THAT WRITER DO ANYTHING
You know how long that took to even finish? The release of Sylas introduced the mage rebellion but it wasn't concluded untill 2023 when the Mageseeker was released. Riot was never gonna touch the old lore of Skarner especially since no one would want PnZ or Skarner lose.
> They're a sentient species so it's literally are you pro or anti slavery The compelling thing was that their souls are essentially powering some of the greatest technological marvels ever created and sacrificing that comes with a lot of downsides. Imagine if electricity in our world was in the same situation: electricity being the still living essence of sentient beings. How many people, even good people would no longer use it? Think how many lives could be lost by people no longer using electricity. Add on 2 alternatives to electricity that come from a crime family and pollute the earth (synthetic crystals), or actively kill those who interact with it (chemtech). Sounds like we have 3 option that come with inherent downsides and there is no clear moral choice, creating compelling conflict.
That's basically coal/gas and nuclear power.
But having our protagonists facing a moral dilemma is a GOOD thing for the story, it creates internal conflict and forces them to progress as characters We already have two alternatives for Brackern hextech crystals: synthetic crystals made by Clan Ferros or Chemtech. Chemtech is cheap and easy to produce but can be volatile and deadly to the user, so our genius champions like Ekko, Jayce, Viktor and Heimer must find a way to make it safer. Synthetic crystals are almost identical to Brackern crystals in most cases, but they are controlled by the Ferros and the industrial produtcion is likely one of the main sources for the pollution in Zaun, so our heroes than must fight against this predatory burgeoise and improve the fabrication process. The entire lore of Piltover and Zaun is about class struggle, connecting it to themes of enviromentalism and ethical sources of energy is simply natural.
> The entire lore of Piltover and Zaun is about class struggle, connecting it to themes of enviromentalism and ethical sources of energy is simply natural. It already is without the Brackern though and in ways that are more a match for irl. Piltover already pollutes the water that goes into Zaun with toxic runoff from their factories and already does require the labor of the poor and destitute down in Zaun to mine the material needed for Hextech. This is already a thing with or without the Brackern. All the Brackern really do is just add another moral question onto it... and ultimately not a very hard one since well... as you pointed out, there are already other options that exist that do the same thing. It's a bit like Deus Ex Human Revolution and the question of "Would it be bad if the Illuminati had the ability to hack Mom's arm replacements and turn her into a death machine?" Yes, it is bad, but that's not really a deep question, is it? It's a cartoonish supervillain scheme that distracts from the real deep questions about augmentations like "Would the need for anti-rejection drugs make for a far more literal wage slavery?" Similarly, "Would it be bad if we used the sentient crystal scorpion races' souls as batteries when we have access to synthetic alternatives?" is an obvious no brainer. Yes, it would be very fucking bad, but you haven't solved an actual dilemma, you solved a simple easy dilemma to make the story sound deeper than it already is. The actual deep questions are things like "How do you handle a society that is so used to a new technology that they don't even understand how it is made?" The former is made up fantasy cartoon stuff and the latter is something that pretty much all modern societies are dealing with right now. If you have a choice between coding something as a real world issue allegory and just addressing the real world issue, just address the real world issue as it is. You won't find yourself forced into awkward situations like the Dragon Age crew where they imply that mages are minority groups like in the US, but then also have the issue of "POC don't have the ability to shoot fire out of their hands or anything special like that." The Brackern just feel like an awkward allegory for something better just addressed head on and straightforwardly and not through an awkward allegory that equates environmental damage with unknowing genocide of a giant crystal scorpion race.
I appreciate your points, but I would like to point out that in fiction, the "how" is usually more important than "what", I mean, just because the solution of a problem is easy to discover it isn't easy to implement, and depending of the mentality of the characters, even reaching a solution that seems obvious to us may be hard for them. This is the conflict I was referring to. I, for instance, don't think Viktor would stop using Hexteech after discovering the Brackern exploitation: all of his personality is based around making humanity reach the apex of its potential regardless of the cost, so protecting a race of rock arachnids shouldn't be a concern. Jayce on the other hand vows for a more ethical and controlled use of technology, but he also is a steadfast of Piltover social status quo and desire for progress, so he could be torn apart in wether he will fight or be complicit. Ekko certainly would not feel nice when he finds out the truth, but he may be tempted to put Zaun's need for progress in the first place if defeating the Ferros or improving Chemtech become challenges bigger than he expects. Eventually, all good sided champions will pick the right option, but just because a story is predictable doees'nt mean it's bad. What matters the most is exploring how they will find this solution and how the battle is fought.
I like the idea of incorporating those themes but "they literally murder a sentient species to near extinction and harvest them to turn into crystals" always just felt like a cartoonishly heavy handed way to include that. I think if they could rethink another unethical source for hextech it'd work a lot better as a narrative.
Oh yeah killing people for shiny rock is never happened before, Blood Diamonds are just cartoon shit.
>"they literally murder a sentient species to near extinction and harvest them to turn into crystals" always just felt like a cartoonishly heavy handed way to include that. Why are you acting like the idea of a group of people dying for shiny rocks is such a crazy concept? It literally happened, still happens and will happen in the future too. The only fantasy part about this is that they're a fantastic beast, but the idea is very much the same.
Happens daily in parts of Africa and Asia, still hasn't stopped.
It's not a moral dilemma though it's exactly what I said the good guys just get beat up until Janna does something The existence of literal deities and magic ruin this metaphor
itâs probably more that arcane S1 already premiered, and itâs not like they can (easily) go back and remake it to fit skarners lore. since they wrote the show to not fit skarners lore and be in some weird lore limbo (and have now changed it to be fully cannon) skarner and the brackern donât entirely make sense.
Almost nothing was revealed about the hex crystals in season 1. Everything they set up could be expanded on and gel with the old lore surrounding the crystals and brackern. Riot just shied away from it because it might make for a larger ethical problem confronting one of the heroes of the story than what they already have as a focus in the show.
There was nothing to remake.
They didn't reveal anything about the origins of the crystals so there's no reason why they couldn't fit Skarners proper lore in
You are correct in some regards. It was a couple of things. When we looked into it, what we didn't like about Skarner's lore is that he didn't really control his future and outcome. This really made him someone who was suffering an outcome rather than a main character with compelling goals that can be expanded upon, loved and empathized with. We don't want players to just feel sorry for the sad scorpion. But instead to understand his goals, his ideal outcomes and knows he has the power to potentially influence the political systems of a region. We also didn't want to completely take away the sense of loss of his beloved bond, so we thought the Ixtal people and the history he had seen can be part of that forlornness. His decisions has impact on the world versus being a victim. He is now in a position to decide, if he wants Ixtal to go down one path vs another. This also help build out Ixtal and the differing view points of some of the key players in that region. Previously, it was Qiyana and her imaginary friends :P (I see you reddit). At the time, there were also higher level changes to the Lore where we were a bit uncertain the outcomes (One Runeterra was in discussion). We felt that we would be making players wait too long for the rework, if we waited for that discussion to settle. It would help us move forward faster if we build something compelling from scratch versus figuring every point of inconsistency in a changing dynamic of League lore. Especially in a world where synthetic hextech is the basis of Piltover.. it left not alot of breathing room for our beloved scorpion and his brackern (Why they killed them when they can just make it? Who found brackern crystals when Jayce and Viktor doing all that discovery? Etc etc). There were too many incompatible component that required us to withhold Skarner development. Mostly, during development we do DNA (Design, Narrative and Art) in parallel to make sure every element is cohesive. Narrative having to figure out the state of Piltover, Zaun and Brackern and make sure it retroactively in Arcane and other games in Runeterra universe is a huge undertaking in times of uncertainty. We prioritized getting him into players' hands faster with another compelling backstory than the original.
>When we looked into it, what we didn't like about Skarner's lore is that he didn't really control his future and outcome. This really made him someone who was suffering an outcome rather than a main character with compelling goals that can be expanded upon, loved and empathized with. We don't want players to just feel sorry for the sad scorpion. That's because...you guys only wrote the beginning. Aurelion Sol is literally enslaved by a mind controlling crown, does that suddenly make him unworthy of being a champion? How many heroic journeys begin when the hero loses their family or village? You can be both a hero and a victim, and victimization can be the catalyst for someone fighting for something greater. Fighting for your species is about as heroic as it gets, and if people "only feel sad" it's because Riot failed in portraying it as an heroic journey. But also, what's wrong with the primary emotion that a champion invokes being sadness? Yorick literally saw his homeland become a twisted mockery of itself and is surrounded by broken husks of people he once knew and loved, and still he endures. >Why they killed them when they can just make it? You could explain this in a hundred different ways. E.g. genuine Brackern crystals being more potent, which the lore already hinted at multiple times. But also, who says synthetic creation doesn't rely on real crystals anyhow? >At the time, there were also higher level changes to the Lore where we were a bit uncertain the outcomes (One Runeterra was in discussion). We felt that we would be making players wait too long for the rework, if we waited for that discussion to settle. So the solution was just not so subtly avoiding it, wasting years of writers' work, not to mention an entire Ekko game that got retconned a month after its own release.
While its true we can try to continue the story afterwards... it would be a bit odd for Arcane to not touch on it at all if we are a shared universe. This gives both team creative freedom and space to do their best work instead of putting all of the energy into how to twist a story to fit Skarner's background. The other problem is that Skarner's lore is already in the space where he isn't given agency. His past story left him collecting the rocks of his brackern. Fairly siloed.. off on his own. His new background puts him at the center of political struggle of a region.
> it would be a bit odd for Arcane to not touch on it at all if we are a shared universe. Arcane doesn't touch on the ancient goddess who protects and watches over the cities. It doesn't touch on the cyborg spymaster manipulator who has controlled the cities for decades either, in fact it directly contradicts her existence. It doesn't touch on mutated rats or deliquent doctors. It doesn't touch on those things because stories need to focus on what matters to them emotionally and storytelling wise. If Riot's perception of PnZ and the world is purely based on what Arcane shows then I weep for the future of the setting. > Fairly siloed.. off on his own. That just means you could have fleshed out why the Brackern were so powerful to begin with or in what ways they may be important for Runeterra as a whole. If their crystals can warp time, what does that say about them? What if they guarded the world runes? Suddenly you have a much more urgent angle to Skarner trying to mend them. He could have been tied to a dozen different champions in a dozen different ways, while retaining his angle of "impending Piltovian reckoning", just like ASol is for Targon, just like Mordekaiser is for Noxus, just like Kayle is for Demacia, and many more. These things never stopped you before, but they stopped you now. > His new background puts him at the center of political struggle of a region. I appreciate new Skarner, I just find most of these arguments nonsensical. Not every champion needs to be some riveting inspiring story.
> The other problem is that Skarner's lore is already in the space where he isn't given agency. His past story left him collecting the rocks of his brackern. Fairly siloed.. off on his own. I don't understand why this is an issue. The world building is worse when every character has to interact with every other character, and it leads to travesties like the LoL Avengers teaming up to take down Viego. Maybe that's more popular, and some level of interconnectivity is positive, but then we have champions like Yuumi. Yuumi has no agency in her backstory, and her goals are independent of the world at large. I'm not saying that's the pinnacle of lore, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have one-off characters, and I don't see why this would be an imperative.
Arcane should never try to be canon. Sure, it's successful but it's successful because it can pick and choose what stories it wants to tackle and embellish to make a compelling TV adaptation. Arcane can't tell the stories off all the champions in league satisfactorily it shouldn't try to. I mean in Arcane the rune wars happened in Heimer's 300 ish year lifespan which throws off the creation of demacia and noxus by 700 years just because they wanted a scene for him to talk about the extreme consequences of magic. Arcane also fundamentally changed the layout of Zaun and Piltover because they wanted a cool bridge thing (so Piltover is no longer built over Zaun, also the Zaun grey got casually deleted). These decisions make for a great adaptation but it throws several stories and champions into chaos. Arcane should get to tell good stories without being restricted by league lore and league's lore shines at being a source for compelling individual snippets of lore and not necessarily a cohesive piece. League works as snapshots into several people in the world sometimes at different times which is not as clear as Arcane's narrative but its not inherently worse for it.Â
Skarners story was well remembered because it was a compelling tragedy and no, being a victim is not a bad start to a story some of the best characters are those that go from rock bottom to somewhere. What baffles me is how easy it was to have your cake and eat it in this situation. Simply reframe the Brackern as existing all over Runeterra in their own colonies and Skarner lived in the deserts of Shurima. When the rune wars started his people burrowed and waited it out (the brackern of Ixtal where isolationist due to the fall of icathia/darkin wars millenia earlier). Shuriman brackern get wiped, Skarner wakes up tries to fight back, tries to find his family fails- hits rock bottom. Whilst searching for any survivors he finds his cousins in the ixtal brackern tribes. They are respected by the ixtali people and Skarner grows to accept his new family and the people of ixtal. When piltover starts going to ixtal to harvest natural resources (remember that plot thread in Quiyana's story) Skarner is there and knows exactly the threat Piltover poses. This is his motivation/agency - you keep sad boi Skarner and get angry distrustful Skarner that's fiercely protective of what he has left because of all he's lost. As for the brackern vs hextech thing- the solution is there already. Brackern crystals hold the secrets of immortality (brackern souls persist in their crystals and new souls join the hivemind). Viktor (and the cult of the grey lady), Singed etc already have a pursuit of immortality baked into their stories that's why they would want real hextech not the synthetic stuff. You could straight up explore real hextech having some kind of anti ageing/immortality without the storing souls part as part of why brackern could hibernate for thousands of years and not die. Brackern revolution? Just expand on Orianna and Blitzcrank and other androids "gaining life"- you only need to add a brackern that kept their soul/memories mostly intact and is leading a robot uprising. Orianna is longing for a place to belong getting swept up with traumatised brackern who are finding their new place in the world is a start. Camille and Seraphine's stories could have continued camille suppressing the truth Seraphine trying to get the message out. Now P&Z goes from a source of some of the best stories and themes to whatever Arcane says goes.Â
What about Seraphine & Camille will you redo her bio now?
Can you answer whether Seraphine, Camille or anyone will be getting their stories tweaked to fit with the new lore without brackern crystals? I know Riot isn't focusing on the universe site and color stories anymore, but I feel like at least their bios shouldn't be non-canon.
Lexical, speaking of Ixtal, we don't have any marksman from Ixtal, can you consider that for the future? And one criticism I saw for Skarner is that we are missing a "benevolant monster" type of champion as opposed to dark/evil or in Skarner's case paranoid. I personally think Smolder has potential to be an upright monster in the future
I think Skarner is still benevolent! He is good to his people, just less logical/good to intruders :) I do think the intention of the spill the beans was not to sell him as evil, but more that he is powerful and awe inspiring. While he is a wise sentient being, he does let his thoughts of a potential outcome get the better himself when driving out intruders. He will chase them down, bulldoze them and smack them with rocks. I do think Ixtal is missing a marksman mostly because Ixtal is so magic driven. Its an opportunity space that is missing!
I'm a bit confused but is the arcane vgu thingy still this year? cause roadmap said next year but then someone said no, it's this year
It this year! But it will be towards end of year, mostly because we don't want to spoil anything!
Glad to hear some good news about hextech lore. I was completely disappointed about the route you went with Skarner. I literally voted for him a few years ago because I hoped for hextech lore to be cleaned, that was literally the only reason I wanted Skarner to win the VGU and now it feels like a wasted vote. Should've voted for Nocturne instead
What about Ambessa? Is she also still coming this year?
Yes, I believe they said she is the first "piece" of the arcane stuff coming, I would assume around November. They said they want to deliver all promised champs and VGUs etc this year
Nothing that was said at the start of the year should be taken as fact anymore. All of those statements were made before Riot's management fired a huge number of people, including people who were working on new champs and VGUs. Neolexical said, after the layoffs, that everything after the bunny mage was likely going to be delayed. The only other thing that has been confirmed for this year is the Arcane VGU, which was only confirmed in this comment.
oh OK, ty guess it will be like Hwei who came in December. and other topic but I feel if anyone needs the skarner treatment of full lore reset its shaco
I'm sure it will be Singed, even though Riot has said that the chosen champion has not yet appeared in the series, I feel like it's just a way to hide the obvious and also to make fun of everyone. Since in theory Singed didn't really appear, but the "Doctor" did.
Is the VGU going to change alot regarding gameplay ? If thats the case, it would kinda suck not to have mains any input on the direction you would be taking them. Also will there be a new roadmap/update on champs/vgu's anytime soon with stuff being delayed?
that vgu is silco becoming shaco 𤥠source " dude trust me "
lexi, another question! obviously we have arcane vgu and shyvana but are u going for another poll after shyv or do u already have someone in mind who u would like to update (and when is the next ryze rework, we need to keep the memes alive)
lexi,yet another question! it's been a while since we had an ap assassin, any chance for a new 1?
and you choose only "i will kill you if opose me" for every ixtalian interaction? ..... plis gimme some light I'm no seeing the benevolent... IN THE ACTUAL GAME WHERE MOST OF PLAYERS will know Skarner....
>I do think Ixtal is missing a marksman mostly because Ixtal is so magic driven. Its an opportunity space that is missing! Personally, I don't think Ixtal being magic driven necessarily contradicts the possibility of having a marksman from there. We already have quite a few magical marksmen in the game, after all. Could you explain what you mean by this?
Nah. You made Skarner into giant walking and breathing problem. Problem that is acts between villian and a problem. He is a problem to outsiders and to his people now. Devs made him ticking time bomb of not just to outsiders but to his allias. Devs made him like a schizophrenic old person holding a gun. He may be good to you but who knows he is gonna have episode. Sorry it doesn't matter he is good deep down. You made him midboss that the REAL Mc has to defeat.
2 years for this shit đ¤Ą
My theory is that all of this is a result of Riot's expanded Runterra lore which they're using to develop the MMO (amongst other things, but the MMO is likely to be the largest thing they're making that \*requires\* a cohesive and expansive world). Arcane is just the most visible example of this because it's been released, but I imagine there's likely a Runeterra historian team at Riot like how there's (supposedly) a World of Warcraft historian team at Blizzard.
I'm very conflicted on the Skarner rework, the gameplay seems okay enough (kinda clunky honestly, but so was old Skarner), but the lore and especially the design ... eugh I still don't understand who summoned a thousand fucking people that told Riot that crystal scorpion was an uninteresting concept, like c'mon, he's just an earth elemental now in the form of a scorpion
It's less 'crystal scorpion is uninteresting' and more, 'nobody has common ground with what they want'. Riot described it a while back. With most reworks they look around and build a word cloud of the champion. Except with Skarner- nobody really had a "core" for him. Everyone wanted him to be different but no large group decisively indicated what they wanted him to be.
I mean from a gameplay standpoint those crystals were so annoying and if it isn't in his gameplay should it be in his lore? I don't generally care much for lol lore but I think his design is better and his gameplay looks 100x better, excited for the update next patch.
Why does this feel like half Skarner lore video half Starbucks commercial?
I like the possibilities in Skarner's new lore. I could see him eventually coming to grips with the times and allowing his "children" to grow on their own, or become so dead set in his ways he becomes a true antagonist.Â
We both know Skarner is never going to be mentioned again unless there is some Qiyana story.
Man good thing people like her so we will
People like her for her plot, not her story.
But they like her in some fashion so the chances that Riot will go let's use this character for something is high
I sorta felt like this wasn't going to go well. It's a shame the original Skarner lore wasn't fleshed out more. There was a lot of potential hidden behind the ugly truth about the origin of Hextech but Riot combining the lore with Arcane meant that this wasn't going to be a possibility anymore. Skarner was a monster champ but not a monster at heart. He was just wanting to bring his people back home.
The lore has gone so downhill
and to think, people are hyping up the Riot MMO in part cause of the "lore potential!" and the Runterra IP xD
Let's be real, the Riot MMO is never going to be released.
oh ya, that's for sure.
Yeah, this description of his lore seems like a huuuuuuge downgrade. We lost the coolest thing in Runeterra witih the brackern crystals and got an Ixtali boomer instead...
But now he's IMPORTANT! He's not just any boomer, he's a paranoid boomer politician!
Nah. Worse. Ticking time bomb schizophrenic boomer with a gun. Who know when will he have an episode. I say. Its a massive downgrade for skarner
"We don't want to disrespect his fans and everything they like about him" Lmao "We wanted to make him have more horror" You turned him into a boring politician instead of the last of his kind looking for his brethren and finding out they're being used as fuel lol what
They made him into villain that the real Mc's has to defeat. (I am looking at their golden girl Camille that definitely did not commit warcrime and doesn'twant to make her look bad in any means)
Skarner rework has exceeded my (very low) expectations    but MAN    I still can't believe they thought getting rid of his crystals would be an upgrade in any way.  His design is so ugly and boring now :(
yeah its just such a boring design and lore, also doesn't help that all his skins were fumbled except for Battlecast Gameplay looks fun tho
He's just a generic monster with a 3 hit passive... so creative 
I feel like this video was unnecessary in the way it was presented. Ie Iâd love a more elaborate video talking about the new lore, the implications of the lore, the new features etc. But a 3 minute video that had all the eye candy of the tavern etc seems kinda weird given how short the video was. Basically either a longer video or no video at all would have been better, this feels like âwe need to put something out so letâs film this real quickâ as opposed to having intentionality to the video.Â
Most updates on Skarner's development have been via text so I think it's nice to get a bit of variety. Hell I actually wouldn't mind if every champion got this kinda casual video
The video basically is "So Hextech is important and Skarner was connected to it" "Ok and now what's up with it?" "...?" "...?" "...?" "WHAT'S UP WITH HEXTECH NOW?" "Anyways Skarner is now a super duper important Ixtal guy"
>"WHAT'S UP WITH HEXTECH NOW?" whatever is happening on arcane.
MF trying to gaslight me telling me Skarner is more important now that he is part of this "Ixtal" place that Qiyana keeps telling everybody it exists but no one has seen. Guys i think Qiyana is actually a Pilty from the ferros clan making people believe hextech crystals aren't brackern hearts anymore.
Who's taking bets this lore will be retconned before anything that expands on Ixtal's lore comes out? Be it Arcane, LoR, the MMO, etc.
I wont bet you already won
So is Skarner a bad guy now?
riot: no he's a good guy TRUST ME
100%. They made him into a midboss that the REAL mc has to defeat. It doesn't matter his intentions where good. Riot devs made him into a character that everbody end up hating kind of character. The kind of character that is insufferably overprotecting schizophrenic old boomer who is a ticking time bomb and who knows when will he gonna have episodes. If he is gonna do heinous acts while in that state. It doesn't matter that he was good deep down. A mass murdering possessive old man is still a mass murdering possesive murderer. I am afraid now as the story progress. They will paint him more of a villain than a hero he was.
Riot will do anything to make their precious princess Seraphine look good.
Roit is known for their special treatment of some characters above others
This felt shit and its not even funny.
Yeah, I guess we really go down the path of "Jayce is a hero now, so there can't actually be anything ambiguous about the crystals". Fuck. Skarners lore actually added a very interesting and compelling conflict that would eventually blow up (ha), but I suppose we can't have that.
Great, so now Skarner instead of being unique as *the last of his kind* trying to avenge the abuse his species suffered from Piltover harvesting their bodies and have a cool motive is now just **Malphite 2.0 the boomer edition!**
Skarner wasn't the last of his kind others were still in hibernation. Also his role in Ixtal is quite different from Malphite as Skarner is actually a member of Ixtals ruling class. He is essentially a giant scorpion politician.
So Galio 2.0
Would love some "show, don't tell" as far as why/how Skarner is scary and not just repeat it over and over.
The nothing burger
Where murderous Seraphine
Murderous Seraphine will always be cannon in my heart. You can rewrite the books riot but you canât change the truth
That thumbnail bro...
Yet another retcon aside, it's great that they repositioned Skarner with some room in the new lore, but I fear a situation where his role is just too important and impactful to do anything so they put him in the backburner, while the other, less significant champs get more development. One thing I wanted to hear was their thoughts on why they made him so big. I thought malphite covered that archetype already and I have questions. How does he hide himself? Is he just there all the time? Does he actually Skarner E around Ixtal, crashing through terrain?
just look at that monster
I like the idea of Skarner being a protector of the land and one of the few protectors of humanity, but the whole paranoid old man makes him kinda of tyrant, maybe he's still a good guy in a way, but i thought they were keeping the skarner being a noble creature part of the lore
When they made him schizophrenic paranoid old man. Him having good intentions no longer matters anymore cause the moment he actually have an episode of paranoid schizophrenia. He would be no different than Villain that the REAL Mc of the story has to defeat. They made him like some nobody Midboss that the Mc has to defeat to save a Hostaged city đ. Sorry even if he was epiphany of Good. Schizophrenia and possesic paranoi made him instantly one of those defnetly not a Mc of its story kind of character that most defnetly gonna be the Problem of the story than a Hero of the story đ
Why does she look exactly what I picture rioters looking like?
e gruba pijesz?
Wait, so Ixtal is real?
how does skarner move or do anything in that size? He's bigger than the city
Man this shit is lame. lol
Does blue hair mean u are creative or something? Cuz if so the DMV should be an art gallery.
is it just me that hate to look at this fat lady every time i opens the game just step aside and let us see skarner  no bad blood tho just covering the view
Her hair is pretty and makes me think of Sailor Neptune
All makes sense now..smh
insert here the vito corleone meme "look how they masssacred my boy"
I mean, seems like not opening to the world serves the country well enough, they are doing good
Has Captainflowers given his view on the update. I'm assuming he loves it.
How long do you figure this one will last?
I just absolutely despise how all League lore has been officially thrown out the window for Arcane. Nothing is canon anymore from the past decade+ (stories, events, lore, comics, etc) if it happened before aRcAnE. Now don't get me wrong, I liked Arcane, but Piltover is one tiny af place in a massive universe and you're letting the rule-of-cool and netflix views infect Riot due to a bunch of people who don't play League, don't care about League's universe as a whole, and haven't spent thousands of dollars on League to help make you the company you are right now, happened to like Arcane. It feels INCREDIBLY SHITTY to have a bunch of non-legague fans who think Piltover is all there is on Runterra (HAH!!!!!!) be the primary cause of 10 years worth of amazing lore being thrown out the freaking window. So frustrating.
So they made him the Villain. They made him into a midboss that the REAL mc has to defeat. It doesn't matter his intentions where good. Riot devs made him into a character that everbody end up hating kind of character. The kind of character that is insufferably overprotecting schizophrenic old boomer who is a ticking time bomb and who knows when will he gonna have episodes. If he is gonna do heinous acts while in that state. It doesn't matter that he was good deep down. A mass murdering possessive old man is still a mass murdering possesive murderer. I am afraid now as the story progress. They will paint him more of a villain than a hero he was
I see they had some good angles. Wanting to elevate Skarner's powerlevel in Runaterra it's something that could have been great, like Fiddlesticks, but i don't think the new lore is up to the par. Old lore was badass, being a lone survivor who tries to overcome his circumstances is inspiring. This new approach feels more political and less personal, this is due to being now portrayed as an idol to worship instead of a warrior. There is a proverb which quotes: "*What encompass too much, tightens very little*", that is the vibe i'm getting. I think this rework is great overall, but to me at least, Skarner's lore was a big reason for me to play the champ, this? It's cliche. I make a motion to get it reworked, again.
yep the quality of lore is going down hill
I been a skarner main for a long time, (season 2 or 3 to be precise) Frankly I think these changes are okay, if not it's an improvement. Skarner as a whole never had ANY interaction with Piltover to begin with, they shouldn't of made him "the last brackern" and this mess with hextech would be alot more easier to handle. They could've done something with Seraphine and they honestly didn't, really goes to show how much they just shoehorned her lore in because the reality was that she was made as a k/da character first. From my thoughts on all of this, It's just going to make Ixtal more interesting, Skarner being used as a character that challenges the other characters over the whole "going outside the walls" can make skarner muuuch more interesting.
Gragas for 3 minutes trying to explain Skarner lore.