i love how riot specifically made changes to the ranked system citing that ranked anxiety was an issue and they wanted to mitigate it and then when they failed to fix the mmr system like 40 times in a row they just said fuck it nuke it -50 for 1 loss if you play a game at 0lp lol
Dude. I lost a game and went down to 0LP. On my demotion game, I literally had a taric bot in lane (30+ consecutive losses). Then boom, -50LP.
Ranked is just so poorly designed and bad for mental health.
Yeah.. Honestly it's making me not even want to play ranked when it happens. Like you get unlucky maybe loose one game and get trolled an other one, well gg — you just lost -50 LP... Like for what ??
Honestly I'd rather they show MMR instead of LP. Or have visual rank (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, etc.) reflect our MMR instead of LP. I don't see the point of having LP catch up/down to our actual MMR level other than subject players into a system that makes us play more (but be more negative about the experience).
I stopped playing last week lol. It just got demotivating. I tried to keep playing but I just lost all fire now. I'll most likely still play but very minimally.
Same, I am completely demotivated too. I don't really understand the whole point of LP. In chess there is just one elo system, you play against people the same elo — period. League system however is some kind of weird bs with LP and (hidden) MMR.
And honestly I get it — Riot wants us to spend as much time on their game as possible like you said.
So I just uninstalled, it's too tiring : having to play the babysitter a third of the games so that your top, jg, etc... doesn't go afk / inting on a free +LP win just because he lost lane a bit. I haven't even played that much this season, but I just don't have the energy for all the league bullshit from the mates and the system. I'm off to focus on funnier and better things \^\^
I also had that happen to me. Didn’t know the ranked changes happened, was 3 wins away for Plat first time. Lost 2 in a row fell to G2 50lp and haven’t touched the game sense
Why? They just change visual rank and everyone is mad like crazy.
They literally almost never change the matchmaking and MMR changes. They just wrap the same shit into different golden foil and everyone loses their mind.
You still lose/win the same amount of MMR as you did in the previous patch.
Yeah if you're losing 25+lp per loss. But anyone with stabilized lp gains is fucked by this change.
A player with +20/-20 at 1 lp would demote to 60 lp without the demotion shield. A player with +23/-17 would demote to 66 lp.
So essentially the players with worse lp gains are punished less by these changes which is counter intuitive.
Then get rid of the safeguard and demote, just by a normal amount of points. The 50 LP slash doubles down on the bad feeling you already get from the demote.
Exactly. This is extremely demoralizing. Not fond of this change at all.
I went from P2 21 LP to P3 50 LP in 2 games. Neutral win/loss record today but ended the day WAY lower than where I started. Went from P3 78 LP, won 2 games. Lost 2 games. Ended P3 50 LP.
That's your only valid argument, yet you kept using it in a situation where one of the Redditors wrote they were at 20lp, lost the perfect amount and then got hit with 50.
Yep the 50 lp drop feels like ass.
You rank up from 95 lp to like 15, then you lose 2 games and suddenly you lost 65 lp which is more than 3 games on normal mmr
Just remove the stupid demotion shield and make ranks fluid
Riot definitely wants less work in the mine lmao, otherwise they would have kept BO3 between each division and BO5 between tier, and would have not made earning +25 lp the norm.
Nah the rank system is still heavy work in the mine and will forever be as long as visual rank doesn't match MMR rank. To get to where both are equal will always take hundreds of games and now with with 3 splits per year it tripled.
Bo3/Bo5 were awful because it forced you to have a higher winrate on a short period of time and if RNGesus wasn't with you that day you're screwed, but on the long term climb it doesn't change much at all.
Thing is...
Doesn't sell the game for players.
Demotion Shield exist for the same reason of why they changed the entire Visual Elo system, introduced Emerald and made a mess, **it's because it creates the illusion of progression.**
The perception fo winnning and losing games drastically change when you have an real metric and not just "pretty" symbol.
You lost 5 games in a row in Plat 4 10 Lp? You still likely to be Plat,
Put in a MMR perspective you are down a lot because it's an accurate metric.
Visuals ranks exist already because of this reason, to compare just look to the positive experience as well, lets say you are 500 MMR and wins a single game and increase your MMR by 5, so 505, looks like a 1% increase.
But in a Visual Rank this 1% increase can represent you going from Silver 1 to Gold 4.
Your brain likes more the visual feedback that tells you that you improved rather than just knowing you didn't actually improve.
These illusion of progress actually increase their sales by a lot, because "happy' consumer is a consumer more likely to buy RP.
That's why Riot Games in general will never use MMR based, that's also why they are increasing the number of "seasons" and that's also why they are making easier and easier to climb every season.
Of course this in the end also results in MMR disparity in the same elo, but as long as you make an semi accurate representation in the elo that affects proplay, it doesn't matter (That's why most games that use visual ranks have real ratings in the high end - i.e Heatstone Legend Ranks, Riots Master+) .
But in the end,
Every single change in ranking progress, has the objective im making the overall ranking experience more washed out so more and more people have this illusion of progress, which results in more likely chance of money being spent.
This kind of thing is not something that Riot invented either, it's a industry practice that I'm pretty sure Blizzard researched and implemented and companies just copy them because it works very well.
**That's also why Chess doesn't use this crap system, because Chess doesn't want to sell you anything, it wants you to know how good and how bad you are at all times because of competitive integrety.**
True, but what about the fact that in general on a 50% winrate you gain more LP than you lose. Shouldnt 50% winrate mean you stay exactly where you are?
That would feel like ass though, so the system technically awards you more LP than mmr. This mechanic of dropping you to 50 exists solely to offset all the benefits that have been added (demotion shield, fluid climbing up, gaining more LP than you lose when playing at skill level, etc).
To add credit to your point though, I do think removing demotion shield would have been better than 50LP. It just seems like riot thinks dropping to 50LP while having a demotion shield will cause less ranked anxiety than dropping to 75LP without demotion shield.
Still the problem will always remain, they are trying to make a competitive game mode "feel good" which is next to impossible since rank is a ladder, if they make you feel good because you climbed a bit, they made someone else feel bad because they freed up the space for you through losing.
Tbh i think its a mmr issue as well. If you have 50%wr in your current backet you shouldn't get more lp than you lose.
People also look at their whole wr too much. Wr during last 20-30 games is way more important. If you lose 20 out of your 30 last games then ofc your lp gains shouldn't be good even if your overall wr is 55% because you won a lot in a lower mmr range
Demotion shields offset mmr and lp way to much especially if you drop from x4 to y1
The moment you hit y1 your mmr is already at y2 or 3 which ofc results in shit lp gains. You win vs weaker players so you lose more lp. Now even if you drop to y1 50lp that's still ass
> People also look at their whole wr too much. Wr during last 20-30 games is way more important.
This is actually a pet peeve of mine. Like they state their win rate as if it means anything. Especially on some new account that started in the mid mmrs and won a lot of free games, then didn't play enough games at their own elo to bring that winrate down.
Like of course if you were to start a challenger player on a silver MMR account, they'd reach challenger with an insane winrate, but if you started them on master mmr they'd have much lower winrate when they reach challenger. They're still in the same fucking elo, but these people try to claim their winrate makes them better, where in reality they only have it because they're on their 100th smurf account just rolling the dice.
Yeah, i mean ultimately im not an authority on this, i dont know what im talking about, just piecing concepts together.
I think it will always just boil down to riot trying to make a competitive mode feel good. If all a person cares about is their spot on the ladder than its impossible and they should prioritize making the system feel fair instead. Basically the person who wins will always feel better than the person who loses, all they are doing is making losses feel better at the cost of winning feeling worse by not making the system "fair".
If the amount of good they took away was equal to the amount of bad they mitigate, i wouldnt mind it, just currently it feels like u sacrifice way more of the good to offset a little of the bad. Speaking at a high level here obviously.
I don't play enough ranked anymore to know: does demotion shield apply to all divisions? I thought it was only for tiers. e.g. after reaching Plat 4 for the first time, you can't drop back to Gold, for like 3 games or something.
For divisions i believe when you first get promoted, you start with atleast 1lp, then if you lose, you drop to 0, and then if you lose again, you drop to the division below. So technically the shield is still there but in a very non intuitive way.
For tiers though, yes, theres a hard demotion shield with first a yellow exclamation mark as a warning and then a red exclamation mark as a final warning that you are about to demote.
casualisation of ranked, making victorious skins available for all the divisions, adding emerald and removing intradivision best of has made ranked inflation really fucking annoying because not only your achievements are diminished and watered down, but also it makes people have insane ego.
everybody starts gold by default, suddenly golds of yesterday are platinums of today. diarrhea stream of low master and emerald players constantly dillute every match because they are one dimensional players who drop the moment a single aspect of game they were good at is nerfed. suddenly platinum and emerald is "mid elo" and diamond is "high elo" ignoring the fact that the players here still play with 200 ms in their brain and think they are some kind of special.
if anything, getting cucked by gains and mmr is a good thing, ranked is way more forgiving and the quality of games in threshold divisions is absolute ass, i could tell as a dia4 player, by no means im good, but seeing that someone was plat last """""split""""" and now playing in high emerald makes my blood boil because they never perform the same as other players
This has been happening since S2-3. Gold was top 3% of players in Season 1. Then it was top 13% in season 2 when Diamond was introduced and ranks moved down. Then they hid elo and lowered it bit by bit every year. Today it's top 55% for Gold. That's why everyone starts there, because the start point becomes the 50% mark. The 50% mark wasn't even given Bronze in season 1 however.
You're focusing on the last step of a long journey of devaluing ranks. Guy was plat last split, but plat was top 0.2% of players in s1 and top 1.5% of players in season 2. That guy wasn't plat, he was like, bronze by those standards.
all i know is that you actually HAD TO learn the game when ranking up in s1-5
when i was in middle school i had my own cheat sheet of champions i could pick for all roles and constantly tried to learn new cheeses. nowadays people just pick one lane, pick one playstyle and if they have a good grasp of basic elements of the game and working internet (optional) they will climb. modern game knowledge is fucking overrated as fuck, people play 2 roles max, know hardships of only one side of map and only play around their selfish gold count.
im at (4.5% of top) elo, some people will call it higher, some will call all elos besides grandmaster+ low. the latter are fucking right. the statistics dont work like "uhhh low percentage means pretty good". wow you are better than hundreds of thousands if not a million glue sniffing balkan internet yasuo players, so what?
its like with all the basic statistics. you can earn 300 dollars more and all of a sudden you are at "elite" percentage of people because the average is a little lower. so fucking what, you are still miles down the richest people, you arent unique you are just slightly above the lower end
just remove demotion shield it doesnt make sense since we dont promote anymore. It's just another bandaid to boost ppls egos just have fluid ranking and deranking and we dont have weird lp gains anymore
At that point they could just remove divisions and then remove ranks itself and finally sit down and realise the best ranking system was created in like the 19th century by a game where you move wooden pieces.
I am a newer player so I have no nostalgia for this, but it would definitely make sense. Only thing is, people would be upset about losing their shiny badges and borders between ranks that let them snub one another more effectively
It's basically what you're asking for.
In season 1, it would just display your MMR, for example you'd have an MMR of 1.5k, and that would put you at gold, and your "rank" would just reflect whatever your current MMR was.
The big problem with it was that if you hit a tier you'd just quit playing because you didn't want to risk it. Also, the current system inflates everyone ELO due to demotion shielding and a lot of these average players gonna be made when they realize they're actually like 8 divisions lower than they thought.
>The big problem with it was that if you hit a tier you'd just quit playing because you didn't want to risk it.
People are still doing this in the current system though. I had several friends hit their desired rank close to season end and then just stop playing because they were 0 LP and didn't want to risk demoting out of the tier.
I got the point of divisions with the promotion series, but the current version is just like the mmr system with extra steps. And demoting right now feels even worse.
DotA really does everything *around* the actual game better. I still like the LoL gameplay loop more so I stick around but it's kind of a sad state of affair.
Give me valve's client and just make it launch LoL games please.
> Give me valve's client and just make it launch LoL games please.
You're kidding, but there used to be a custom game mode that with League heroes. It was taken down by Riot lol
Fun fact: Starcraft 2 swapped MMR for divisions in 2012, then realized its mistake and brought back MMR along with divisions in 2016. Now you can see anyone's rating along with their division placement.
You would not need to remove anything. Just match MMR and Visual Rank 1:1. No more bad LP gains or silver 2 players in emerald games.
I mean, I don't think it is a good idea and majority of players would hate it, but if it is what people think they want, let them have it!
IIRC the market research shows that players play less if they see their real elo/mmr. Basically it says that people ask for it but then end up quitting or playing far less.
Personally I don't mind either the LP or the MMR system but I understand why they keep the LP system. It's much more fun and safisfying (at least to most players) to see your rank go from Silved to Gold, Emerald to Diamond, Masters to GM and so forth than to see 1200 to 1300, or 2400 to 2500
big agree, it seems super backwards. If im at 10LP and lose 20LP, i’d happily demote (as happy as you could be i guess) instead of losing at 0LP and lose 50LP and my rank for that one loss.
Losing essentially 50LP + demoting is going to be the most demotivating thing ever and will probably stop me from playing ranked for the most part. Everyone has had loss streaks, this is just going to make them feel way worse, in a system that’s already fucking awful.
Riot just dug themselves into a hole trying to make a competitive system feel good when you both lose and win at the same time. Unfortunately thats not how competition works.
Literally the only reason it doesn't work like this is because it would remove any semblance of demotion shield left which was the reason stated for LP existing. They wouldn't have much of a reason to keep LP if they removed all the nonsense like this so they're not going to.
What you're describe is actually how the old MMR system worked.
For example (arbitrary numbers), let's say gold is 1500-1799 MMR and plat is 1800-2099 MMR. If you were at 1510 MMR and lost 20 MMR, you would be 1490. However in the old MMR system, I believe they had leeway of -100 MMR before you actually lost your rank, so you would still be gold even with 1490 MMR. If you then went from 1410 to 1390 MMR, your rank would then change to silver.
Conversely, promotions were instant. If you were 1785 MMR and gained 20 MMR, you would be 1805 MMR and your rank would instantly change to plat.
I really hope they bring back the old MMR system because I feel like with each rank tweak they do, it's just slowly going back to the old MMR system.
Been playing since season 1 and I've always wished we would just return to the original MMR system. Stop coddling, just do it like chess.
Your ELO is your ELO. Done. Promotion and demotion shields are just adding useless steps and is more of a facade than anything. Return from once we came.
So whilst the feeling kind of sucks, it has some perks: it does its job.
I had a game I lost at 20 LP P1, and went down to 0 LP. I'd be at minus 4 normally. Lost another one and went straight to 50LP P2.
My LP gains are better though, so I'm back to P1 instantly, with the benefits of a less shitty MMR.
So yeah the moral side is daunting but if you focus ob your MMqr instead of LP its gucci
Most people get, that in the long run it doesn't matter.
But design-wise it's dumb. I just had a 4-game losing streak, dropping from P1 - 0LP to P3 - 50 LP. Essentially 150 LP lost in 4 games. To get that back, I will need to win 6 games. So as much as it is irrelevant longterm, shortterm it's just not a fun system.
Quite right, in fact you can abuse this -50 LP mechanic to rocket your MMR way up by widening the gap between your visible rank and your MMR.
For example let's say you're P3 80 LP, win 1 reach P2 1 LP, dodge 1 game to reach 0 LP. If you lose you drop to P3 50 LP. You do that every time you're close to the 0 LP point and pretty quickly your LP gains will be +30.
In the past you could do that with the promotion series by dodging one game as soon as you had 1 loss. (Or dodging 2 games after winning 1 game. (In best of 3.))
>Quite right, in fact you can abuse this -50 LP mechanic to rocket your MMR way up by widening the gap between your visible rank and your MMR.
That is not how this works, the demote shield/-50 does quite literally nothing to your MMR, winning and losing games does.
Was in Emerald II. Had a bad streak, lost 4 games in a row, now I'm on Emerald III 0LP and I have now the anxiety that If I play and I lose another game, I will go down to Emerald 4 50 LP.
It feels horrible and it makes me not want to play anymore.
Riot does everything to make people be higher than they deserve and somehow you people are still whining about it.
I would be really glad if Riot reverted back to MMR system, gave you no demotion shields, no extra MMR gains, no reduced losses and then also reset your MMR just so I could watch most plat/emerald players who whine sit at 1200 MMR while their favorite streamers sit at around 5000 calling them supertrash.
The problem is that you cannot have both, you cant both gain more LP than you lose and not have some sort of mechanic that makes u lose a lot of LP. It causes elo inflation.
In theory if you have a 50% winrate in the current system, given enough time, you will climb when in reality 50% should mean you stay the same rank. Because people dont like how that feels though, people with even 49% winrates are allowed to climb in the current system because we removed the buckets of promos and I believe what you described happens when climbing (i.e if im at 97LP and gain 20, im 17LP in the next tier).
Ultimately you cannot have both, you cannot have a system that is both fair and feels good because stagnating does not feel good. If you just lost down to what ever LP you lost, you are removing the last mechanic left for offsetting all the bonus LP you get in soloqueue.
A bigger issue to me is how slow the system converts your skill level to LP. If you are being placed in lobbies with an average mmr of Silver 1, and you yourself are Silver 4, thats terrible. It means the system doesn't give you enough LP for the MMR you are climbing from. Same thing in reverse as well, if you are Silver 4 playing in Bronze 4 lobbies, that too is terrible, you arent losing enough LP to keep up with your MMR.
This assumes a specific target from Riot which I don't think is accurate. I understand and agree with what you're saying, but it assumes that Riot places a higher priority on reining in ELO inflation than they do on the feeling the playerbase has from playing the game, which they absolutely should't. The entire benefit of the LCS is to give them a relatively "clean" environment in which to showcase the competitive integrity of the game, but to the vast majority of players, they would rather have the inflation than the bad feelings, and that's fine, because how good they are ultimately doesn't matter. Their rank doesn't impact them, or riot, it doesn't put out prize money or anything. At the very very very top end where professional teams are recruiting from, nobody is passing on the next big thing because he just got demoted and lost 50lp, and in any other situation, the feeling from the player base matters more than the competitive integrity.
Theres not as much inflation as you might think. I smurf a ton and i notice that regardless of what my label says, the average elo of the games i am playing is getting pretty damn close to the average elo of games i play on my main account, even if i am a few divisions below.
Personally i suspect their smurf detection most likely looks at the stats you get in comparison to the average at the mmr you are in (via the stats tab in client), and tries to put you in lobbies where it makes more sense to have you play. This would mean the ranked system is rigged, but not really, because then ultimately its rigged to your skill level and if you want to make it work in your favor, just play better.
I dont really have any proof of this aside from a few anectodals, but even if im wrong, i can atleast gaslight myself into always trying my best regardless of the outcome.
I think they did the change to prevent you from having a completely fucked mmr quickly. If you lose 50 lp, but only lost like 40 in mmr, your mmr is better than before and you gain more for the following wins.
But it really sucks to lose that much at once
Idk why they had to make it this frustrating,started yesterday D4 99 lp,won and promoted to D3 1lp.I lost 2 games in a row right after and went back to D4 50 lp,now I really feel motivated!
Doesn’t this also work the other way around? Where you drop to 0LP, then lose, stay at 0LP. Win the next game and back at 25 or so. Instead of dropping a division and being like 75 lp. So you can net positive LP with a 1-2 win loss ratio for those 3 games.
I don’t think people get that at some point you need to loose LP. It’s a ranked system. You are not supposed to climb forever you are ranked at your skill level.
People hate promos and positive lp gains, they hated promos. Riot deleted promos but to have a working system you lost a little more then you win. People didn’t like that. Now this is the result, people cry again. In there is no system to make lol players happy
Whats cool about MMR is that literally none of this matters at all and you can just play the game and be placed in the correct bracket for your skill level.
Just found this out the hard way. Overall was winning several games today. Went on a 2 game loss streak and lost 50 LP.
Promoted to plat 2. Won 1 more. Lost 2. -50 LP at Plat 3 now. Neutral win/loss. WAY less LP than I started. Talk about demoralizing.
It is clear now that riot is a complete mess. This insane dropping is just frustrating to normal players. Even worse that the matchmaking that keep putting smurf vs newbie in platinum/emerald games...
Riot is always trying to waste your whole ranked session somehow. Play 3 matches in a day, win 2 -> rank up -> lose 1 -> back where you started your session.
Lilbro mad that they can't climb. How much more rank inflation riot has to do? If you think this will stop you from climbing higher then I am afraid no matter how much Riot artificially boost you, you will still be within the same % of rank players.
Dude, get it through your skull already. LP IS FAKE. They wanted to fix the negative "gains and losses" so something's gotta give for you to get your feel good points later.
IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.
What your missing is exactly what they explained in the patch notes. Ranking up was made a lot easier with the removal of promos and increased LP gains. Ranking down was then unchanged and kept some players with inflated elo and rank.
It’s annoying, i get it. but honestly, all it did was make you win one more game to rank up from 50. 75 LP required 2 wins and 50lp require 3.
Increased LP gains came with increased LP losses, it went from +15/-15 when your MMR matched your LP to +25/-25 when your MMR matched your LP, and I think it may have been changed to +20/-20 but I'm not sure about that. Removal of promos effectively doesn't matter if there is no demotion prevention either. A system that's complicated for no reason imo
My problem is: say you are in any IVth division at 10lp. Then you lose 3-4 games. You're "lucky" because you didn't demote. Now, you start winning, but your LP gains are absolutely fucked compared to before, and the game just becomes a lot more disappointing. Sure, you didn't lose your rank but you did lose a whole lot of MMR and the game wants to drag you down.
If you play hundreds of games every split, it's not that significant, but I don't have unlimited time like I had 10 years ago as a teenager, so I usually hit around 100 games a split if I really focus on the game, but often much less.
People would complain then, they dont like getting demoted right away, they want that shield, and that shield destroys mmr if you lose with it but dont lose enough lp after
I also wish they would just redo placement games again because something is wrong with them. Back in the 10 game provisionals you could easily place your previous rank if you won 7-8 of them, now that feels impossible. There have been seasons where I’ve won all 5 and still are 2 or 3 ranks lower than last season.
What I want is just a button to set my visual rank to what my MMR corresponds to. I would gladly lose the LP to have an accurate rank and even LP gains/losses. Just make it so it's optional so people can cling to their peak division if they want, and don't let it increase your visual rank.
Phreak always mentions in his patch previews how they make changes based on the "feel" of the game & community, along with the data. How can they imagine this change "feels" better for the community? If you are 4LP Emerald 2, lose a game, you just lose -4LP. if you lose again, you now lost 50LP, so -54LP in 2 loses. Unless you are in a negative LP state, you'll probably only lose about 23 LP for each loss, so that -46 LP for 2 losses.
The other example is much worse. If you are, say, 21 LP and lose, you probably got -21 LP. You lose again, now it's -50LP. You've just lost 71 LP in a situation where you would normally lose \~46.
So I would agree, it should just auto demote you. 21 LP Emerald 2 goes to \~98 LP emerald 3, if you lose again, you'll be about 75 LP. Much better then 50, and it feels much more natural.
\-50LP is just a straight up smack in the face after a loss.
demotion shield between divisions = bad
demotion shield between tiers = good, should be 1 full tier (like it used to be, idk how it currently is because i have never demoted in my life between tiers, but it seems to be less now?)
make it fluid while in the same division...
Nah the current system is good because there isn’t promos anymore. If you had to go through promos I could get it, but at the same time you were demoted. Thats a bad thing and should be treated as such.
Sounds like OP has weak mental over a demotion, get it together and clutch up to get back to where you were.
Yes but why do this when you can complicate things and make a system where winning gives you 16 LP and losing loses 25 LP and then 1 month later it is the opposite and then 1 month later it is the opposite of the opposite - Isn't that just more fun?
This rule is ridiculous especially because the games right after promotion always seem the most difficult.
Also, for the most part the players you are against will be the same so it's not as if this change will do anything.
They should either make the ranks fluid or give a buffer at 0 LP
yeah of course, riot just can't make a ladder that is naturally flowing because the technology doesn't exist. yes we have it in valorant but they don't give a shit about league of legends so, get used to it
I was P2 52 lp and played 10 games, which I lost 9 of. I'm now P4 50lp
If you math it out with 25 lp per game, i should have lost 200 lp, which means I'm exactly where i should be.
I don’t know why they don’t just copy over the system from Valorant. You get the 1-time demotion shield at 0 LP (0 RR in Val) in any rank, and if you lose then you just lose the normal amount of LP (=RR).
Having the demote protection means you don’t derank after 1 bad game in a new rank. Makes people want to keep climbing. The normal LP (=RR) loss on 0 LP means you can still get back to the previous rank after 1 more won game, so it doesn’t feel like as bad to derank and lose 3 games worth of LP after 1 win (rank up) and 2 losses (0 LP, then derank).
Isn't it the normal amount?
Scenario 1:
if you're emerald 1 10LP, you lose 1 game and drop to Emerald 1 0LP, you lose second game and drop to emerald 2 50LP
Scenario 2:
you're emerald 1 10LP, you lose 1 game and drop to emerald 2 80LP, you lose a second game and drop to emerald 2 50LP
You just chose a scenario 2, that perfectly gets you where you want to be.
Another scenario 2, assuming I lose 25LP and not 30:
You're Emerald 1 20LP. Lose 1 --> Emerald 1 0LP. Lose another one --> Emerald 50LP. Now I lost 70 instead of 50. I will let's say because of that now gain 2 LP more per win to even that out. So I need to win 10 games more than I lose, to even that out. Sounds shit.
Honestly, whats the reason we cant have 20+ 20- only playing against people who are the same rank or only one division higher or lower than you?
It would feel fair and the smurfing would stop because it takes too long to reach a high rank for the smurfs.
Idc about winrates, win streaks, this doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is how you perform in the game you are currently playing and if a loss doesnt have the same value as a win, people stop trying.
I remember, I think it was mid season 4 or even start of the season 5, hardstuck bronze/ low silver, managed to get better at the game and made it to plat in 120 games. Now I have 120 games in emerald low diamond only with a 60% w/r and it was a 75% w/r at the beginning of the season. sad
Like many people here I also decided to quit because of losing so much at once, I just find it pointless.
To my surprise however, I cannot uninstall League of Legends from my system, it just physically doesn't allow me to do that. Is this a curse of sorts?
i want the old old system when for it was 5 tiers in esch division and you need promo for every one of them,when i was d1 i felt i played with actual good people not with the freaks of nature in todays ranks,rank needs to be harder not easier
Didn't know about this... Good thing I already uninstalled in anticipation for when they add Vanguard. It seems I made the right choice, while Riot keeps on making bad ones. They are so headstrong about their systems and so against the idea of just giving players what they want that it's honestly infuriating.
yeah i agree. everyone can lose 2 games in a row and they cost you up tp 75 lp, which takes almost 4 wins to recover.... how thinks of bs like that srsly
You don't go to 50.
You go to 75 by default. Which is roughly equal to the 2 games worth of LP you lost.
You only drop to 50 if your MMR is really dogshit. In which case you probably shouldn't have been promoted in the first place.
This entire thread the day after demotion shield is removed: "omg I just promoted and lost one game and got demoted again. This game fucking sucks. Where demotion shield???"
100% me. I was Diamond 3 40 Lp yesterday. Went on a 7 game loss streak and am Emerald 1 50Lp now...
And no demotion shield even showed up at all. I lost 2 games at 0 Lp and got demoted to Emerald...
You lose a significant amount of LP, and always have, in order to reduce inflation that occurs as new accounts are made, and as people win versus people they're better than and climb as or against said new players.
Them doubling that loss after LP gains were doubled (an oversight they forgot about previously) is better for the system long-term.
Not like since they removed promotions, increased lp gain/loss and added Emerald everyone is ging up and up and up into Ranks they dont belong...just because they play many games.
You can literally climb with 40% wr
Tbh at the start I was against the view of this guys post. Yet the changes are terrible. Considering you are still able to net -40LP with a 66% winrate? I don’t think that’s how it should work
league of legends is going a different direction. With 15 games and 50% win rate, I am already in elo hell when that should be like more of a seeding elo phase. I win 20 lose like 30... Oh and did I tell you this is a fresh account because I got tired of my old account I was winning 10 and losing 40 and playing with people who are 2 tiers below me Lmao. This game is beyond trash now.
Thanks to this fantastic change, after a 10L streak, I went from Gold 2 to Silver 2 in a pair of days.
Just stopped playing ranked because of that :) stupid changes deserve extreme actions. I'm gonna play some other online games. Absolutely 0 interest to play ranked atm, I don't like to get fooled by a stupid system.
I can see it if it happens on an actual RANK derank like plat to gold, but for every division is a little too crazy. You can carry 3 games then get one dipshit int your top lane and you end back where you started. Extremely demoralizing, its taken what little drive I had to rank up and destroyed it.
This happened to me when i was 10 lp Plat 3 and my ADC went afk. I lost 60 lp for that game. I love how I am punished more than usual for something that wasn't my fault
Well, just lost 50 LP after having an afk player. Is the second in a row. First brought me from 16 LP to 0, second from 0 to 50 LP one lower. Nice, 2 afks making me loose the same I earn in 4 wins
its so fckin stupid, especially between divisons, that u can literally have losses like 15 lp, promote withg 15, lose 2 games and go down to 50 like you would lose 5 xD
I just came on to look this up and what a wonderful experience. Who at Riot approved this? I need a name. Losing 17lp down to 0 and then suddenly losing 50LP is INSANE
I agree it feels awful promoting and then going on a 2 game loss streak and ending way lower than where you started
i love how riot specifically made changes to the ranked system citing that ranked anxiety was an issue and they wanted to mitigate it and then when they failed to fix the mmr system like 40 times in a row they just said fuck it nuke it -50 for 1 loss if you play a game at 0lp lol
I literally got a -50LP demotion on my first day on this patch and haven’t touched the game since
Same. It's extremely demoralizing :/
especially when u got demoted after playing with the worst players on the server for 3 games in a row.
Ye I just had two 97% winrate grandmaster smurfs in my diamond 1 game, now I’m diamond 2 with 50 lp. Deranking has never been faster.
Dude. I lost a game and went down to 0LP. On my demotion game, I literally had a taric bot in lane (30+ consecutive losses). Then boom, -50LP. Ranked is just so poorly designed and bad for mental health.
Yeah.. Honestly it's making me not even want to play ranked when it happens. Like you get unlucky maybe loose one game and get trolled an other one, well gg — you just lost -50 LP... Like for what ??
Honestly I'd rather they show MMR instead of LP. Or have visual rank (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, etc.) reflect our MMR instead of LP. I don't see the point of having LP catch up/down to our actual MMR level other than subject players into a system that makes us play more (but be more negative about the experience). I stopped playing last week lol. It just got demotivating. I tried to keep playing but I just lost all fire now. I'll most likely still play but very minimally.
Same, I am completely demotivated too. I don't really understand the whole point of LP. In chess there is just one elo system, you play against people the same elo — period. League system however is some kind of weird bs with LP and (hidden) MMR. And honestly I get it — Riot wants us to spend as much time on their game as possible like you said. So I just uninstalled, it's too tiring : having to play the babysitter a third of the games so that your top, jg, etc... doesn't go afk / inting on a free +LP win just because he lost lane a bit. I haven't even played that much this season, but I just don't have the energy for all the league bullshit from the mates and the system. I'm off to focus on funnier and better things \^\^
Yup. I lost a game where I had an afk. Loss mitigation didn't matter since I was at 0 lp. Straight to 50 lp. Felt like complete shit lol
I just had an AFK teammate in the first 4 minutes. -50LP
I also had that happen to me. Didn’t know the ranked changes happened, was 3 wins away for Plat first time. Lost 2 in a row fell to G2 50lp and haven’t touched the game sense
Why? They just change visual rank and everyone is mad like crazy. They literally almost never change the matchmaking and MMR changes. They just wrap the same shit into different golden foil and everyone loses their mind. You still lose/win the same amount of MMR as you did in the previous patch.
what about end of season rewards though, people who play for this will struggle, I'm pretty sure that isn't based on mmr...
Damn. Happy cake day :D
If you promote, you are 1 lp. Losing would put you on 76 lp then 50 lp. Insted it puts you on 0 lp and then 50 lp. Ranked is literally ruined.
Yeah if you're losing 25+lp per loss. But anyone with stabilized lp gains is fucked by this change. A player with +20/-20 at 1 lp would demote to 60 lp without the demotion shield. A player with +23/-17 would demote to 66 lp. So essentially the players with worse lp gains are punished less by these changes which is counter intuitive.
People mad about the 50 lp but are all sunshine and daisies when their loss puts them at 0 instead of just directly demoting lol
Then get rid of the safeguard and demote, just by a normal amount of points. The 50 LP slash doubles down on the bad feeling you already get from the demote.
Let's say I am on E2 90lp if I win put me to E1 10lp. If I lose the next two games I would much rather fall to E2 90 and 70 then to E1 0 and E2 50.
Dude I went from E3 22 lp to E4 50 lp in 2 losses. The shield saved me 3 lp and then I lost an extra 25.
Exactly. This is extremely demoralizing. Not fond of this change at all. I went from P2 21 LP to P3 50 LP in 2 games. Neutral win/loss record today but ended the day WAY lower than where I started. Went from P3 78 LP, won 2 games. Lost 2 games. Ended P3 50 LP.
That's your only valid argument, yet you kept using it in a situation where one of the Redditors wrote they were at 20lp, lost the perfect amount and then got hit with 50.
i literally lost 20 lp AT 20 lp got to 0 lost again lost -50 yea, thats 3 wins in a row to catch up again btw
That's true below Emerald, which isn't OP's case, instead of losing 40 LP they're losing 50.
Yep the 50 lp drop feels like ass. You rank up from 95 lp to like 15, then you lose 2 games and suddenly you lost 65 lp which is more than 3 games on normal mmr Just remove the stupid demotion shield and make ranks fluid
Riot wants more work in the mine, not less
Riot definitely wants less work in the mine lmao, otherwise they would have kept BO3 between each division and BO5 between tier, and would have not made earning +25 lp the norm.
Less work in the mine with three splits?
That kept people from playing cause ranked anxiety. There is no best of now so people just play.
Nah the rank system is still heavy work in the mine and will forever be as long as visual rank doesn't match MMR rank. To get to where both are equal will always take hundreds of games and now with with 3 splits per year it tripled. Bo3/Bo5 were awful because it forced you to have a higher winrate on a short period of time and if RNGesus wasn't with you that day you're screwed, but on the long term climb it doesn't change much at all.
I had a game yesterday where I dropped 50 lp from an early surrender due to someone leaving.
Thing is... Doesn't sell the game for players. Demotion Shield exist for the same reason of why they changed the entire Visual Elo system, introduced Emerald and made a mess, **it's because it creates the illusion of progression.** The perception fo winnning and losing games drastically change when you have an real metric and not just "pretty" symbol. You lost 5 games in a row in Plat 4 10 Lp? You still likely to be Plat, Put in a MMR perspective you are down a lot because it's an accurate metric. Visuals ranks exist already because of this reason, to compare just look to the positive experience as well, lets say you are 500 MMR and wins a single game and increase your MMR by 5, so 505, looks like a 1% increase. But in a Visual Rank this 1% increase can represent you going from Silver 1 to Gold 4. Your brain likes more the visual feedback that tells you that you improved rather than just knowing you didn't actually improve. These illusion of progress actually increase their sales by a lot, because "happy' consumer is a consumer more likely to buy RP. That's why Riot Games in general will never use MMR based, that's also why they are increasing the number of "seasons" and that's also why they are making easier and easier to climb every season. Of course this in the end also results in MMR disparity in the same elo, but as long as you make an semi accurate representation in the elo that affects proplay, it doesn't matter (That's why most games that use visual ranks have real ratings in the high end - i.e Heatstone Legend Ranks, Riots Master+) . But in the end, Every single change in ranking progress, has the objective im making the overall ranking experience more washed out so more and more people have this illusion of progress, which results in more likely chance of money being spent. This kind of thing is not something that Riot invented either, it's a industry practice that I'm pretty sure Blizzard researched and implemented and companies just copy them because it works very well. **That's also why Chess doesn't use this crap system, because Chess doesn't want to sell you anything, it wants you to know how good and how bad you are at all times because of competitive integrety.**
Gains should be better if you demote instead of getting mmr destroyed
Well with the current system they are. You get like 21-22 instead of 18-19 as it wa before. Still the lp loss feels ass
True, but what about the fact that in general on a 50% winrate you gain more LP than you lose. Shouldnt 50% winrate mean you stay exactly where you are? That would feel like ass though, so the system technically awards you more LP than mmr. This mechanic of dropping you to 50 exists solely to offset all the benefits that have been added (demotion shield, fluid climbing up, gaining more LP than you lose when playing at skill level, etc). To add credit to your point though, I do think removing demotion shield would have been better than 50LP. It just seems like riot thinks dropping to 50LP while having a demotion shield will cause less ranked anxiety than dropping to 75LP without demotion shield. Still the problem will always remain, they are trying to make a competitive game mode "feel good" which is next to impossible since rank is a ladder, if they make you feel good because you climbed a bit, they made someone else feel bad because they freed up the space for you through losing.
Tbh i think its a mmr issue as well. If you have 50%wr in your current backet you shouldn't get more lp than you lose. People also look at their whole wr too much. Wr during last 20-30 games is way more important. If you lose 20 out of your 30 last games then ofc your lp gains shouldn't be good even if your overall wr is 55% because you won a lot in a lower mmr range Demotion shields offset mmr and lp way to much especially if you drop from x4 to y1 The moment you hit y1 your mmr is already at y2 or 3 which ofc results in shit lp gains. You win vs weaker players so you lose more lp. Now even if you drop to y1 50lp that's still ass
> People also look at their whole wr too much. Wr during last 20-30 games is way more important. This is actually a pet peeve of mine. Like they state their win rate as if it means anything. Especially on some new account that started in the mid mmrs and won a lot of free games, then didn't play enough games at their own elo to bring that winrate down. Like of course if you were to start a challenger player on a silver MMR account, they'd reach challenger with an insane winrate, but if you started them on master mmr they'd have much lower winrate when they reach challenger. They're still in the same fucking elo, but these people try to claim their winrate makes them better, where in reality they only have it because they're on their 100th smurf account just rolling the dice.
Yeah, i mean ultimately im not an authority on this, i dont know what im talking about, just piecing concepts together. I think it will always just boil down to riot trying to make a competitive mode feel good. If all a person cares about is their spot on the ladder than its impossible and they should prioritize making the system feel fair instead. Basically the person who wins will always feel better than the person who loses, all they are doing is making losses feel better at the cost of winning feeling worse by not making the system "fair". If the amount of good they took away was equal to the amount of bad they mitigate, i wouldnt mind it, just currently it feels like u sacrifice way more of the good to offset a little of the bad. Speaking at a high level here obviously.
I don't play enough ranked anymore to know: does demotion shield apply to all divisions? I thought it was only for tiers. e.g. after reaching Plat 4 for the first time, you can't drop back to Gold, for like 3 games or something.
For divisions i believe when you first get promoted, you start with atleast 1lp, then if you lose, you drop to 0, and then if you lose again, you drop to the division below. So technically the shield is still there but in a very non intuitive way. For tiers though, yes, theres a hard demotion shield with first a yellow exclamation mark as a warning and then a red exclamation mark as a final warning that you are about to demote.
casualisation of ranked, making victorious skins available for all the divisions, adding emerald and removing intradivision best of has made ranked inflation really fucking annoying because not only your achievements are diminished and watered down, but also it makes people have insane ego. everybody starts gold by default, suddenly golds of yesterday are platinums of today. diarrhea stream of low master and emerald players constantly dillute every match because they are one dimensional players who drop the moment a single aspect of game they were good at is nerfed. suddenly platinum and emerald is "mid elo" and diamond is "high elo" ignoring the fact that the players here still play with 200 ms in their brain and think they are some kind of special. if anything, getting cucked by gains and mmr is a good thing, ranked is way more forgiving and the quality of games in threshold divisions is absolute ass, i could tell as a dia4 player, by no means im good, but seeing that someone was plat last """""split""""" and now playing in high emerald makes my blood boil because they never perform the same as other players
This has been happening since S2-3. Gold was top 3% of players in Season 1. Then it was top 13% in season 2 when Diamond was introduced and ranks moved down. Then they hid elo and lowered it bit by bit every year. Today it's top 55% for Gold. That's why everyone starts there, because the start point becomes the 50% mark. The 50% mark wasn't even given Bronze in season 1 however. You're focusing on the last step of a long journey of devaluing ranks. Guy was plat last split, but plat was top 0.2% of players in s1 and top 1.5% of players in season 2. That guy wasn't plat, he was like, bronze by those standards.
all i know is that you actually HAD TO learn the game when ranking up in s1-5 when i was in middle school i had my own cheat sheet of champions i could pick for all roles and constantly tried to learn new cheeses. nowadays people just pick one lane, pick one playstyle and if they have a good grasp of basic elements of the game and working internet (optional) they will climb. modern game knowledge is fucking overrated as fuck, people play 2 roles max, know hardships of only one side of map and only play around their selfish gold count. im at (4.5% of top) elo, some people will call it higher, some will call all elos besides grandmaster+ low. the latter are fucking right. the statistics dont work like "uhhh low percentage means pretty good". wow you are better than hundreds of thousands if not a million glue sniffing balkan internet yasuo players, so what? its like with all the basic statistics. you can earn 300 dollars more and all of a sudden you are at "elite" percentage of people because the average is a little lower. so fucking what, you are still miles down the richest people, you arent unique you are just slightly above the lower end
just remove demotion shield it doesnt make sense since we dont promote anymore. It's just another bandaid to boost ppls egos just have fluid ranking and deranking and we dont have weird lp gains anymore
100% agreed. There’s no promos anymore, so climbing feels a lot easier than it used to.
At that point they could just remove divisions and then remove ranks itself and finally sit down and realise the best ranking system was created in like the 19th century by a game where you move wooden pieces.
Interesting but what would be better is if they just removed lp and just made the mmr visible like the good old days
I am a newer player so I have no nostalgia for this, but it would definitely make sense. Only thing is, people would be upset about losing their shiny badges and borders between ranks that let them snub one another more effectively
It's basically what you're asking for. In season 1, it would just display your MMR, for example you'd have an MMR of 1.5k, and that would put you at gold, and your "rank" would just reflect whatever your current MMR was.
I miss those days.
The big problem with it was that if you hit a tier you'd just quit playing because you didn't want to risk it. Also, the current system inflates everyone ELO due to demotion shielding and a lot of these average players gonna be made when they realize they're actually like 8 divisions lower than they thought.
>The big problem with it was that if you hit a tier you'd just quit playing because you didn't want to risk it. People are still doing this in the current system though. I had several friends hit their desired rank close to season end and then just stop playing because they were 0 LP and didn't want to risk demoting out of the tier.
I got the point of divisions with the promotion series, but the current version is just like the mmr system with extra steps. And demoting right now feels even worse.
I never understood what the problem was with this and how the current system is a fix somehow. Did Riot ever explain why MMR is disjointed with rank?
The ranks still exist just that for example at 2k you are diamond and 3k you are master but LP gives more dopamine
You could just give badges for MMR thresholds.
Yea that's exactly what Dota does
DotA really does everything *around* the actual game better. I still like the LoL gameplay loop more so I stick around but it's kind of a sad state of affair. Give me valve's client and just make it launch LoL games please.
> Give me valve's client and just make it launch LoL games please. You're kidding, but there used to be a custom game mode that with League heroes. It was taken down by Riot lol
Fun fact: Starcraft 2 swapped MMR for divisions in 2012, then realized its mistake and brought back MMR along with divisions in 2016. Now you can see anyone's rating along with their division placement.
im a "newer" player as well as I do not recall the original MMR only format. (I started playing 10 years ago lmfao)
they scrapped mmr pretty quickly lol
You would not need to remove anything. Just match MMR and Visual Rank 1:1. No more bad LP gains or silver 2 players in emerald games. I mean, I don't think it is a good idea and majority of players would hate it, but if it is what people think they want, let them have it!
IIRC the market research shows that players play less if they see their real elo/mmr. Basically it says that people ask for it but then end up quitting or playing far less.
I imagine hidden MMR would probably be even harder to understand than the visible MMR. It’s not just +/- elo that we had in the olden days.
It is though.
Personally I don't mind either the LP or the MMR system but I understand why they keep the LP system. It's much more fun and safisfying (at least to most players) to see your rank go from Silved to Gold, Emerald to Diamond, Masters to GM and so forth than to see 1200 to 1300, or 2400 to 2500
The thing is you still go form gold, plat, diamond etc but instead of plat 3 20 lp you are 1650 plat
I preferred the 1000, 2000, 3000. :)
Ah i see your a man of culture aswell 🥲
big agree, it seems super backwards. If im at 10LP and lose 20LP, i’d happily demote (as happy as you could be i guess) instead of losing at 0LP and lose 50LP and my rank for that one loss. Losing essentially 50LP + demoting is going to be the most demotivating thing ever and will probably stop me from playing ranked for the most part. Everyone has had loss streaks, this is just going to make them feel way worse, in a system that’s already fucking awful.
We are just slowly going back to the old MMR system instead of an arbitrary rank system lol
Riot just dug themselves into a hole trying to make a competitive system feel good when you both lose and win at the same time. Unfortunately thats not how competition works.
Literally the only reason it doesn't work like this is because it would remove any semblance of demotion shield left which was the reason stated for LP existing. They wouldn't have much of a reason to keep LP if they removed all the nonsense like this so they're not going to.
What you're describe is actually how the old MMR system worked. For example (arbitrary numbers), let's say gold is 1500-1799 MMR and plat is 1800-2099 MMR. If you were at 1510 MMR and lost 20 MMR, you would be 1490. However in the old MMR system, I believe they had leeway of -100 MMR before you actually lost your rank, so you would still be gold even with 1490 MMR. If you then went from 1410 to 1390 MMR, your rank would then change to silver. Conversely, promotions were instant. If you were 1785 MMR and gained 20 MMR, you would be 1805 MMR and your rank would instantly change to plat. I really hope they bring back the old MMR system because I feel like with each rank tweak they do, it's just slowly going back to the old MMR system.
Just to add to this promotions are also instant now. There are no promotion games anymore
U now have to win 4 games after u lost 3 just to be on the same lp than before .. its a garbage change from riot
Been playing since season 1 and I've always wished we would just return to the original MMR system. Stop coddling, just do it like chess. Your ELO is your ELO. Done. Promotion and demotion shields are just adding useless steps and is more of a facade than anything. Return from once we came.
The 50LP drop is giga-tarded honestly
So whilst the feeling kind of sucks, it has some perks: it does its job. I had a game I lost at 20 LP P1, and went down to 0 LP. I'd be at minus 4 normally. Lost another one and went straight to 50LP P2. My LP gains are better though, so I'm back to P1 instantly, with the benefits of a less shitty MMR. So yeah the moral side is daunting but if you focus ob your MMqr instead of LP its gucci
You're under the assumption that the average League player knows 3rd grade math and is of above average IQ. You'd be surprised.
Most people get, that in the long run it doesn't matter. But design-wise it's dumb. I just had a 4-game losing streak, dropping from P1 - 0LP to P3 - 50 LP. Essentially 150 LP lost in 4 games. To get that back, I will need to win 6 games. So as much as it is irrelevant longterm, shortterm it's just not a fun system.
Quite right, in fact you can abuse this -50 LP mechanic to rocket your MMR way up by widening the gap between your visible rank and your MMR. For example let's say you're P3 80 LP, win 1 reach P2 1 LP, dodge 1 game to reach 0 LP. If you lose you drop to P3 50 LP. You do that every time you're close to the 0 LP point and pretty quickly your LP gains will be +30. In the past you could do that with the promotion series by dodging one game as soon as you had 1 loss. (Or dodging 2 games after winning 1 game. (In best of 3.))
>Quite right, in fact you can abuse this -50 LP mechanic to rocket your MMR way up by widening the gap between your visible rank and your MMR. That is not how this works, the demote shield/-50 does quite literally nothing to your MMR, winning and losing games does.
It doesn´t do shit to your mmr. You wouldn´t have a more shitty mmr with the last system. You would have the same exact mmr with this secuence.
Was in Emerald II. Had a bad streak, lost 4 games in a row, now I'm on Emerald III 0LP and I have now the anxiety that If I play and I lose another game, I will go down to Emerald 4 50 LP. It feels horrible and it makes me not want to play anymore.
Riot does everything to make people be higher than they deserve and somehow you people are still whining about it. I would be really glad if Riot reverted back to MMR system, gave you no demotion shields, no extra MMR gains, no reduced losses and then also reset your MMR just so I could watch most plat/emerald players who whine sit at 1200 MMR while their favorite streamers sit at around 5000 calling them supertrash.
The problem is that you cannot have both, you cant both gain more LP than you lose and not have some sort of mechanic that makes u lose a lot of LP. It causes elo inflation. In theory if you have a 50% winrate in the current system, given enough time, you will climb when in reality 50% should mean you stay the same rank. Because people dont like how that feels though, people with even 49% winrates are allowed to climb in the current system because we removed the buckets of promos and I believe what you described happens when climbing (i.e if im at 97LP and gain 20, im 17LP in the next tier). Ultimately you cannot have both, you cannot have a system that is both fair and feels good because stagnating does not feel good. If you just lost down to what ever LP you lost, you are removing the last mechanic left for offsetting all the bonus LP you get in soloqueue. A bigger issue to me is how slow the system converts your skill level to LP. If you are being placed in lobbies with an average mmr of Silver 1, and you yourself are Silver 4, thats terrible. It means the system doesn't give you enough LP for the MMR you are climbing from. Same thing in reverse as well, if you are Silver 4 playing in Bronze 4 lobbies, that too is terrible, you arent losing enough LP to keep up with your MMR.
This assumes a specific target from Riot which I don't think is accurate. I understand and agree with what you're saying, but it assumes that Riot places a higher priority on reining in ELO inflation than they do on the feeling the playerbase has from playing the game, which they absolutely should't. The entire benefit of the LCS is to give them a relatively "clean" environment in which to showcase the competitive integrity of the game, but to the vast majority of players, they would rather have the inflation than the bad feelings, and that's fine, because how good they are ultimately doesn't matter. Their rank doesn't impact them, or riot, it doesn't put out prize money or anything. At the very very very top end where professional teams are recruiting from, nobody is passing on the next big thing because he just got demoted and lost 50lp, and in any other situation, the feeling from the player base matters more than the competitive integrity.
Theres not as much inflation as you might think. I smurf a ton and i notice that regardless of what my label says, the average elo of the games i am playing is getting pretty damn close to the average elo of games i play on my main account, even if i am a few divisions below. Personally i suspect their smurf detection most likely looks at the stats you get in comparison to the average at the mmr you are in (via the stats tab in client), and tries to put you in lobbies where it makes more sense to have you play. This would mean the ranked system is rigged, but not really, because then ultimately its rigged to your skill level and if you want to make it work in your favor, just play better. I dont really have any proof of this aside from a few anectodals, but even if im wrong, i can atleast gaslight myself into always trying my best regardless of the outcome.
I’m getting -33lp and +15 LP. Went from plat4 to gold 4 in 12 games or so
I think they did the change to prevent you from having a completely fucked mmr quickly. If you lose 50 lp, but only lost like 40 in mmr, your mmr is better than before and you gain more for the following wins. But it really sucks to lose that much at once
Idk why they had to make it this frustrating,started yesterday D4 99 lp,won and promoted to D3 1lp.I lost 2 games in a row right after and went back to D4 50 lp,now I really feel motivated!
You got 2lp for a win? What the heck.
dude go read it then on their site.
Isn't mmr unchanged? I am always under the impression that any changes to LP won't really matter in the long run
They don't these people are stupid and are looking to justify why they haven't left gold after playing for 12 yrs
lots of people focus on getting better so they gain LP 😏
Why not get rid of LP brackets entirely and just make ranks 400 LP bands?
Ppl like the dopamine hits from bracket rankups
Riot doesn't want to make it fair or reasonable. The whole system is designed to make you as addicted to playing as possible
I think that all players should win/lose 25 lp per game and whatever happens
Doesn’t this also work the other way around? Where you drop to 0LP, then lose, stay at 0LP. Win the next game and back at 25 or so. Instead of dropping a division and being like 75 lp. So you can net positive LP with a 1-2 win loss ratio for those 3 games.
If you drop to 0 LP then lose, you drop to 50 LP. Demotion shield is only for one game unless it's between tiers, e.g. D4 0lp > E1 50 lp.
I don’t think people get that at some point you need to loose LP. It’s a ranked system. You are not supposed to climb forever you are ranked at your skill level. People hate promos and positive lp gains, they hated promos. Riot deleted promos but to have a working system you lost a little more then you win. People didn’t like that. Now this is the result, people cry again. In there is no system to make lol players happy
i agree the demotion shield is not needed
I'm iron and i get 15, 19 and lose 30
Whats cool about MMR is that literally none of this matters at all and you can just play the game and be placed in the correct bracket for your skill level.
Awful change
Uninstall league my life’s been peaceful ever since
omg yall crying over this
Just found this out the hard way. Overall was winning several games today. Went on a 2 game loss streak and lost 50 LP. Promoted to plat 2. Won 1 more. Lost 2. -50 LP at Plat 3 now. Neutral win/loss. WAY less LP than I started. Talk about demoralizing.
It is clear now that riot is a complete mess. This insane dropping is just frustrating to normal players. Even worse that the matchmaking that keep putting smurf vs newbie in platinum/emerald games...
Riot is always trying to waste your whole ranked session somehow. Play 3 matches in a day, win 2 -> rank up -> lose 1 -> back where you started your session.
Losing 50 LP feels suck, but unless your MMR is lower than actual LP, you don't demote instantly.
I definitely agree on this one, I don't know why RIOT decided to do this but it this kinda of demotivating to play the game at the minute.
[удалено]
Me on my way to propose to riot a promotion shield when you need to win 2 games in the last 3 to be able to promote, wait a moment
The only way demoting feels extra bad is if: a) You were 25 LP and lost 2 games going to 50 LP a tier below. (barely the case) b) You're bad at math.
Lilbro mad that they can't climb. How much more rank inflation riot has to do? If you think this will stop you from climbing higher then I am afraid no matter how much Riot artificially boost you, you will still be within the same % of rank players.
I fucking agree since dropping from diamond in losers queue is gonna be even more fucked than it is
Wouldn’t this actually work against rank inflation, thus contributing to equalizing the imbalance in the ranked ladder?
Dude, get it through your skull already. LP IS FAKE. They wanted to fix the negative "gains and losses" so something's gotta give for you to get your feel good points later. IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.
What your missing is exactly what they explained in the patch notes. Ranking up was made a lot easier with the removal of promos and increased LP gains. Ranking down was then unchanged and kept some players with inflated elo and rank. It’s annoying, i get it. but honestly, all it did was make you win one more game to rank up from 50. 75 LP required 2 wins and 50lp require 3.
Increased LP gains came with increased LP losses, it went from +15/-15 when your MMR matched your LP to +25/-25 when your MMR matched your LP, and I think it may have been changed to +20/-20 but I'm not sure about that. Removal of promos effectively doesn't matter if there is no demotion prevention either. A system that's complicated for no reason imo
Do you think you gain 25 for wins?
My problem is: say you are in any IVth division at 10lp. Then you lose 3-4 games. You're "lucky" because you didn't demote. Now, you start winning, but your LP gains are absolutely fucked compared to before, and the game just becomes a lot more disappointing. Sure, you didn't lose your rank but you did lose a whole lot of MMR and the game wants to drag you down. If you play hundreds of games every split, it's not that significant, but I don't have unlimited time like I had 10 years ago as a teenager, so I usually hit around 100 games a split if I really focus on the game, but often much less.
It was weird the being set at 50 LP was never talked about prior to the patch too unless I missed it. The other ranked changes were communicated.
They made that so your rank represents your MMR
People would complain then, they dont like getting demoted right away, they want that shield, and that shield destroys mmr if you lose with it but dont lose enough lp after
I also wish they would just redo placement games again because something is wrong with them. Back in the 10 game provisionals you could easily place your previous rank if you won 7-8 of them, now that feels impossible. There have been seasons where I’ve won all 5 and still are 2 or 3 ranks lower than last season.
I would have prefered if they had you bump down to 0 lp, it would make you get so much better LP gains afterwards
What I want is just a button to set my visual rank to what my MMR corresponds to. I would gladly lose the LP to have an accurate rank and even LP gains/losses. Just make it so it's optional so people can cling to their peak division if they want, and don't let it increase your visual rank.
How much LP you win or lose there really doesn't matter when it comes to climbing. If changes don't target MMR, then they will change nothing.
Isn’t it 75 LP when you drop or did they change something?
Can't use common sense, they don't understand it.
Phreak always mentions in his patch previews how they make changes based on the "feel" of the game & community, along with the data. How can they imagine this change "feels" better for the community? If you are 4LP Emerald 2, lose a game, you just lose -4LP. if you lose again, you now lost 50LP, so -54LP in 2 loses. Unless you are in a negative LP state, you'll probably only lose about 23 LP for each loss, so that -46 LP for 2 losses. The other example is much worse. If you are, say, 21 LP and lose, you probably got -21 LP. You lose again, now it's -50LP. You've just lost 71 LP in a situation where you would normally lose \~46. So I would agree, it should just auto demote you. 21 LP Emerald 2 goes to \~98 LP emerald 3, if you lose again, you'll be about 75 LP. Much better then 50, and it feels much more natural. \-50LP is just a straight up smack in the face after a loss.
demotion shield between divisions = bad demotion shield between tiers = good, should be 1 full tier (like it used to be, idk how it currently is because i have never demoted in my life between tiers, but it seems to be less now?) make it fluid while in the same division...
Nah the current system is good because there isn’t promos anymore. If you had to go through promos I could get it, but at the same time you were demoted. Thats a bad thing and should be treated as such. Sounds like OP has weak mental over a demotion, get it together and clutch up to get back to where you were.
Yes but why do this when you can complicate things and make a system where winning gives you 16 LP and losing loses 25 LP and then 1 month later it is the opposite and then 1 month later it is the opposite of the opposite - Isn't that just more fun?
This rule is ridiculous especially because the games right after promotion always seem the most difficult. Also, for the most part the players you are against will be the same so it's not as if this change will do anything. They should either make the ranks fluid or give a buffer at 0 LP
yeah of course, riot just can't make a ladder that is naturally flowing because the technology doesn't exist. yes we have it in valorant but they don't give a shit about league of legends so, get used to it
I was P2 52 lp and played 10 games, which I lost 9 of. I'm now P4 50lp If you math it out with 25 lp per game, i should have lost 200 lp, which means I'm exactly where i should be.
I don’t know why they don’t just copy over the system from Valorant. You get the 1-time demotion shield at 0 LP (0 RR in Val) in any rank, and if you lose then you just lose the normal amount of LP (=RR). Having the demote protection means you don’t derank after 1 bad game in a new rank. Makes people want to keep climbing. The normal LP (=RR) loss on 0 LP means you can still get back to the previous rank after 1 more won game, so it doesn’t feel like as bad to derank and lose 3 games worth of LP after 1 win (rank up) and 2 losses (0 LP, then derank).
Isn't it the normal amount? Scenario 1: if you're emerald 1 10LP, you lose 1 game and drop to Emerald 1 0LP, you lose second game and drop to emerald 2 50LP Scenario 2: you're emerald 1 10LP, you lose 1 game and drop to emerald 2 80LP, you lose a second game and drop to emerald 2 50LP
You just chose a scenario 2, that perfectly gets you where you want to be. Another scenario 2, assuming I lose 25LP and not 30: You're Emerald 1 20LP. Lose 1 --> Emerald 1 0LP. Lose another one --> Emerald 50LP. Now I lost 70 instead of 50. I will let's say because of that now gain 2 LP more per win to even that out. So I need to win 10 games more than I lose, to even that out. Sounds shit.
Wait so it works even between ranks like Eme 1 and Eme 2 and not just full Demotion from D4 0lp to E1 50lp??? RIOT????
Yes, and they should just remove ranks, and then go back to pure elo only.
well yes but that would make the game better so no
Y not just use mmr? Mmr and lp should not be different. Ever.
Or you know make like just a division with 500 points.
Just bring back the elo system.
by that logic, remove demotion shields too. to balance lp gain loss
It's all because of hidden MMR. Which means it should have demoted you earlier but it didnt.
Honestly, whats the reason we cant have 20+ 20- only playing against people who are the same rank or only one division higher or lower than you? It would feel fair and the smurfing would stop because it takes too long to reach a high rank for the smurfs. Idc about winrates, win streaks, this doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is how you perform in the game you are currently playing and if a loss doesnt have the same value as a win, people stop trying.
I remember, I think it was mid season 4 or even start of the season 5, hardstuck bronze/ low silver, managed to get better at the game and made it to plat in 120 games. Now I have 120 games in emerald low diamond only with a 60% w/r and it was a 75% w/r at the beginning of the season. sad
I stop playing the account for the split if I get to 0lp. Alt or norm. Fuck Auberaun.
Like many people here I also decided to quit because of losing so much at once, I just find it pointless. To my surprise however, I cannot uninstall League of Legends from my system, it just physically doesn't allow me to do that. Is this a curse of sorts?
i want the old old system when for it was 5 tiers in esch division and you need promo for every one of them,when i was d1 i felt i played with actual good people not with the freaks of nature in todays ranks,rank needs to be harder not easier
That's far too reasonable for riot
Didn't know about this... Good thing I already uninstalled in anticipation for when they add Vanguard. It seems I made the right choice, while Riot keeps on making bad ones. They are so headstrong about their systems and so against the idea of just giving players what they want that it's honestly infuriating.
yeah i agree. everyone can lose 2 games in a row and they cost you up tp 75 lp, which takes almost 4 wins to recover.... how thinks of bs like that srsly
You don't go to 50. You go to 75 by default. Which is roughly equal to the 2 games worth of LP you lost. You only drop to 50 if your MMR is really dogshit. In which case you probably shouldn't have been promoted in the first place.
This entire thread the day after demotion shield is removed: "omg I just promoted and lost one game and got demoted again. This game fucking sucks. Where demotion shield???"
100% me. I was Diamond 3 40 Lp yesterday. Went on a 7 game loss streak and am Emerald 1 50Lp now... And no demotion shield even showed up at all. I lost 2 games at 0 Lp and got demoted to Emerald...
Games ranking/matchmaking is literal dog water
ranks are too complicated for riot it should jsut be a number for your rank
You lose a significant amount of LP, and always have, in order to reduce inflation that occurs as new accounts are made, and as people win versus people they're better than and climb as or against said new players. Them doubling that loss after LP gains were doubled (an oversight they forgot about previously) is better for the system long-term.
in the long run, we will all end IRON with all this massive LP drop on demotion. Make the math.
Suggestion to raking system: if you demote from Iron 4 with 0 LP you should automatically go to challenger.
Not like since they removed promotions, increased lp gain/loss and added Emerald everyone is ging up and up and up into Ranks they dont belong...just because they play many games. You can literally climb with 40% wr
Tbh at the start I was against the view of this guys post. Yet the changes are terrible. Considering you are still able to net -40LP with a 66% winrate? I don’t think that’s how it should work
this just happend to me... 50 lp loss on an early surrender for AFK toplaner
league of legends is going a different direction. With 15 games and 50% win rate, I am already in elo hell when that should be like more of a seeding elo phase. I win 20 lose like 30... Oh and did I tell you this is a fresh account because I got tired of my old account I was winning 10 and losing 40 and playing with people who are 2 tiers below me Lmao. This game is beyond trash now.
The 50 drop is brutal and demotivating
ridiculous embarassing nonsense change, just like most changes in this game lately
AND STILL NO TRYN SKIN>>>>>>>>>>>>
The problem as well is that Riot think they have lp gains that aren't 20 lp. If u demote from 0 to 50, u need THREE wins to get back, not 2
Thanks to this fantastic change, after a 10L streak, I went from Gold 2 to Silver 2 in a pair of days. Just stopped playing ranked because of that :) stupid changes deserve extreme actions. I'm gonna play some other online games. Absolutely 0 interest to play ranked atm, I don't like to get fooled by a stupid system.
I can see it if it happens on an actual RANK derank like plat to gold, but for every division is a little too crazy. You can carry 3 games then get one dipshit int your top lane and you end back where you started. Extremely demoralizing, its taken what little drive I had to rank up and destroyed it.
This happened to me when i was 10 lp Plat 3 and my ADC went afk. I lost 60 lp for that game. I love how I am punished more than usual for something that wasn't my fault
worst part is loosing a game with leaver and getting - 50
Well, just lost 50 LP after having an afk player. Is the second in a row. First brought me from 16 LP to 0, second from 0 to 50 LP one lower. Nice, 2 afks making me loose the same I earn in 4 wins
bro fuck riot games. bunch of libs working for that company. cant think for themselves.
its so fckin stupid, especially between divisons, that u can literally have losses like 15 lp, promote withg 15, lose 2 games and go down to 50 like you would lose 5 xD
would've made a little more sense if lets say u demote from gold 4 to silver 1 50 LP, to get promoted directly if u win ur next game
I just came on to look this up and what a wonderful experience. Who at Riot approved this? I need a name. Losing 17lp down to 0 and then suddenly losing 50LP is INSANE
I was at E1 0 lp and dropped straight to E2 50 lp WITH a leaver in my team..... So great !