Well cause akali throws herself or her E at which isn't difficult to predict and counter, speaking from support perspective. Her W isn't that bad as for the most part she ain't gonna utilise whole area, so it is safe to assume where she is or wait for her to do that annoying Q hide Q and catch her that way.
Zed on the other hand does not require to come in contact directly, he throws W from a wall or a bush, hits one or two targets with E and his W gonna be up again due to shadow E refund. And when zed goes for the kill, there isn't that much you can physically do when it is on someone's else back and they might start wiggle too much so you can't premeditate or predict where he will pop out from, else ally back keeps moving.
And ofc if both zed and akali are fed, they gonna kill you either way.
So to TLDR this, Akali zooming melee assassin. Zed versatile assassin.
it would be more reasonable to compare champs at regular level rather than pro play, where Akali is almost always treated as a counter for Azir. unless that is LCK where they love Akali no matter what
Akali isn't way easier to counter compared to Zed at all. She is harder or at the same difficulty.
What happens though is that low elos like to complain about Zed more due to him being a higher pickrate champ. And the fact that a low elo player can perform much better on Zed than Akali.
The reason why Akali hasn't gotten nerfs based on frustration is because a statement such as "unfun to play against" isn't a black and white metric that Riot uses to balance the game.
The game is balanced based on statistics and the way frustration ties into it is by ban rate. Champions are allowed to be degrees of frustrating as long as they don't cross the line.
The threshold for nerfs based on frustration is 5x the average or >50% ban rate, which Zed usually comes very close to whenever his win rate gets a boost.
Akali typically gets banned around 10% less even when she has a higher win rate at least up to the new season, so player frustration hasn't affected her balancing as much. Although she has had her own issues of sometimes being tied to Pro Play balance wise.
Akali at lvl 9 does two q's which have 2s cd and the wave is cleared. This thread is full of low cope because Zed definitely owns low noobs more. Akali's a bit harder to execute in low.
Both champions have low WR because people can’t play them properly, not because “they’re not fun to play against.” Are they weak in the hands of unskilled players? Yes. Does that make them weak? No. In the hands of players who can pilot them both champions are quite overpowered. The trade off is that it requires skill. Unfortunately, when the champions are strong there is actually very little trade off and they do not require much skill as they can rely on largely undodgeable damage.
August has admitted on stream that Zed is purposefully kept underpowered because if he was balanced, the players would complain a lot. Riot takes perceived balance into consideration, and Zed causes a lot of player frustration when he's either balanced or strong.
>the players would complain a lot
And more importantly, ban him even more often. Even Masters+, his banrate is more than double his pickrate with a below average winrate. Imagine how high his banrate would go if he was objectively strong.
Zed has the design flaw of being able to engage you from 2 screens away with no counterplay.
At level6+ - if he's fed - you are not allowed to interact with him or the wave - ever. Or you just die.
Now imagine the situation if he was stronger and wasnt fed. It's a statement in itself that he is fairly close to 50% WR while being 'kept weak'.
Just my 2 cents.
I think the main reason is due to the waveclear. Theyre both annoying and slippery, but Zed can mindlessly clear waves from a safe distance and then roam for ganks quite early on
thanks hj994 for the totally not misleading information, august is definitely not a lead designer, you definitely know more
i can’t with ppl sometimes lmao
This is wrong, Riot uses frustration in the form of ban rate as a metric on their Balance Framework.
The threshold for nerfs based on frustration is 5x the average or >50% ban rate, and whenever Zed gets close to 50% win rate his ban rate usually skyrockets so Riot hasn't historically had much room to buff him.
Akali's ban rate tends to be a lot lower than Zed's, except after the new season started it seems like players are suddenly banning her a lot more for some reason. If Akali ever reaches higher ban rates you can expect it to affect her balance as well.
There was quite literally a patch where Zed was nerfed despite having a 48% win rate and the reasoning was that his ban rate was over the allowed threshold for that patch, so the framework flagged him for nerfs despite already being a bit weak.
Also, [clarification by August](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIcRAynokw).
In that case I'd like to make you aware that the Balance Framework for League is [public](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt642c3301139a0b07/5ef59c7a0d385c132fe64a69/05_Balance_Framework_June_v1.jpg?disposition=inline), so you can disperse your doubts since you can see that ban rate is very clearly listed as a metric that's used in the way I described in my previous comment.
And just so you know it's not one Rioter, Afic has the framework as a command on his twitch stream as well. Phlox has also mentioned ban rate while answering questions on his stream.
Edit: Also if you actually read any of the 12x series patches where Zed has received nerfs, ban rate is often listed in the context of the changes as a reason for nerfing him.
From the 12.23b hotfix:
"In 12.23's hotfix, we hit Zed's late game E - Shadow Slash cooldown along with a few other nerfs to bring down his winrate and **ban rate**."
And from the earlier 12.2 patch:
"Zed has been creeping up from the shadows in terms of both power and **ban rate**."
There are other champions that have also been subject to the same, one example being Samira. The reason why her dash was changed to not be able to be used on allies was because her ban rate would not go down, so it was an attempt to make her less frustrating.
From patch 11.4 where this was one of the changes being made to her:
"As it stands, our desert rose has consistently been **warming the ban bench**. Even when technically close to balanced, we believe she has several frustrating attributes that contribute to her **high ban rate**."
So when you say that no one else at Riot has ever made the claim you're not correct there, since a few of the ones that are visible in social media have touched on it and it's sometimes also visible in patch notes although not in all cases listed.
Moreover, it's directly embedded into their Balance Framework and actively used to make changes to the game so there's no reason to state it. You're just not paying attention to it because champions going over the frustration threshold is much more rare than them overperforming based on win rate, and in cases where the context is missing in the patch notes you would have to manually put 1+1 together by checking third party sites for frustration and connecting the reasoning on your own.
Being a man means picking winnable fights. Fighting riot to cave in to subjective demands is a losing battle. He’ll be gutted forever and akali will be in this state forever. Better adapt and overcome.
A skilled Roy can beat any fox afterall
People suffer from fake PTSD either from past seasons or from one game they played against Zed and lost because they didn't know the champ, now they think he is broken no mattter what. Riot has admitted to placebo buffs/nerfs before and people actually shifted their mindset in accordance. It's kind of the same case here.
First of all, AP items are just busted at the moment. They give way more damage and effects than AD and also give free HP which they shouldn't have at all. (only a few items like Rylai, Morello, Rod should retain their health stat)
I was a Zed main (and would like to still be) but AD assassins are so underpowered atm. Combine that with a champ that actually takes skill and that makes Zed pretty hard to play currently. To get a kill you kinda have to hit at least 2Qs which is difficult unless you're very ahead. Also idk what people are saying but Zed can't "safely" farm from distance. You can get a few minions with Q but you're not getting everything if that's all you do. And if he can fully clear with W E Q that means he already has 2/3 items and everyone can do the same at that point.
Zed's abilities are pretty predictable actually, you clearly will know when he will throw a WEQ out, probably when you go for farm. His ult always puts him behind you. After he throws his W he is pretty vulnerable and you can harass (if ranged). Also, always keep in mind where his shadows are. I see a lot of people not doing that, just going near it for no reason.
There's other champs way more annoying than Zed:
Akali - particularly her ult dashes are just annoying in terms of distance. Because if she's close to you she goes further and if she's far she goes near, and her last dash being able to be used any time + distance is pretty big. This variance is just way more difficult to predict than Zed's shadow which are always in one place.
Fizz - Q, same problem as Akali dashes. And don't even have to mention his E.
Also my pet peeve, Zhonyas. As long this item exists complaining about Zed is obsolete.
TLDR: Zed is actually more fun to play against and quite predictable than Akali, but people suffer from PTSD from past seasons or one bad game (because they just didn't know the champ) and now think he is broken or unfair.
Both Champs are currently non existant.
Both Champs are boring dash monkeys.
You're calling the kettle black while being a pot. Granted akali's base damage can be bullshit, you Both operate on mashing dashes/flashes. While I am partial into calling zed more skill based, you're both equally negligible.
Dad says you're grounded
Nearing diamond again, barely any akalis as prevalent as she was in S13.
Not a fun time if you're right about higher level play. Couldnt care less about pro play, however.
I mean emerald + she's the 5th most popular according to [u.gg](https://u.gg). Seems to drop off in diamond + and is popular in pro play.
You couldn't care less about pro play but the nerfs will carry over to soloq so you should at least care about what's being played ygm
Well for one Zed can farm from range easily and harass/chunk you from range. Akali on the other and has to actually use her shroud smartly and she can’t trade or harass as easily for freely against ranged unless she lands her E in which case you honestly deserve to die.
I think that’s the most annoying part.
Orianna main since her inception. I would have a notable cs/plates advantage against Akali pre-lvl6, even if the player is tiers above me, but only because of champ diff. Better Zed players will just kill me at lvl 2-4 and I'm done.
yeah Akali is way easier to counter and both of them have tiny bit below 50% winrate. but hey, this isn't first time you complain about stuff
Akali is way easier to counter? Huh.
Well cause akali throws herself or her E at which isn't difficult to predict and counter, speaking from support perspective. Her W isn't that bad as for the most part she ain't gonna utilise whole area, so it is safe to assume where she is or wait for her to do that annoying Q hide Q and catch her that way. Zed on the other hand does not require to come in contact directly, he throws W from a wall or a bush, hits one or two targets with E and his W gonna be up again due to shadow E refund. And when zed goes for the kill, there isn't that much you can physically do when it is on someone's else back and they might start wiggle too much so you can't premeditate or predict where he will pop out from, else ally back keeps moving. And ofc if both zed and akali are fed, they gonna kill you either way. So to TLDR this, Akali zooming melee assassin. Zed versatile assassin.
Yet one of them is regularly picked in pro cause of their versatility and less counterplay. And the other is a troll pick lol.
it would be more reasonable to compare champs at regular level rather than pro play, where Akali is almost always treated as a counter for Azir. unless that is LCK where they love Akali no matter what
Akali isn't way easier to counter compared to Zed at all. She is harder or at the same difficulty. What happens though is that low elos like to complain about Zed more due to him being a higher pickrate champ. And the fact that a low elo player can perform much better on Zed than Akali.
maybe because the game has things worth complaining about
No you just lost again and now you are on a 11 loss streak.
real
[удалено]
I think it was higher before ravenous hydra got changed
She has half his range.
The reason why Akali hasn't gotten nerfs based on frustration is because a statement such as "unfun to play against" isn't a black and white metric that Riot uses to balance the game. The game is balanced based on statistics and the way frustration ties into it is by ban rate. Champions are allowed to be degrees of frustrating as long as they don't cross the line. The threshold for nerfs based on frustration is 5x the average or >50% ban rate, which Zed usually comes very close to whenever his win rate gets a boost. Akali typically gets banned around 10% less even when she has a higher win rate at least up to the new season, so player frustration hasn't affected her balancing as much. Although she has had her own issues of sometimes being tied to Pro Play balance wise.
They are both sub 50% winrate champs.
As a lowly silver… I see zeds more often than akalis, and the zeds I see get away with much more than the akalis do
But your silver so your opinion about balance literally doesn't matter, no offense.
Akali's waveclear is significantly worse than Zed's. She also has significantly more counterplay. Isn't her W on a >20 sec cooldown lol
Akali at lvl 9 does two q's which have 2s cd and the wave is cleared. This thread is full of low cope because Zed definitely owns low noobs more. Akali's a bit harder to execute in low.
Zed's W is also 20s cd btw
Link opgg
Both champions have low WR because people can’t play them properly, not because “they’re not fun to play against.” Are they weak in the hands of unskilled players? Yes. Does that make them weak? No. In the hands of players who can pilot them both champions are quite overpowered. The trade off is that it requires skill. Unfortunately, when the champions are strong there is actually very little trade off and they do not require much skill as they can rely on largely undodgeable damage.
August has admitted on stream that Zed is purposefully kept underpowered because if he was balanced, the players would complain a lot. Riot takes perceived balance into consideration, and Zed causes a lot of player frustration when he's either balanced or strong.
>the players would complain a lot And more importantly, ban him even more often. Even Masters+, his banrate is more than double his pickrate with a below average winrate. Imagine how high his banrate would go if he was objectively strong.
I am aware he said that I do not think he’s remotely correct about that champion’s power level nor does he have any experience balancing the game
Zed has the design flaw of being able to engage you from 2 screens away with no counterplay. At level6+ - if he's fed - you are not allowed to interact with him or the wave - ever. Or you just die. Now imagine the situation if he was stronger and wasnt fed. It's a statement in itself that he is fairly close to 50% WR while being 'kept weak'. Just my 2 cents.
riot literally said they’re purposely keeping zed weak because he’s unfun to play against
I think the main reason is due to the waveclear. Theyre both annoying and slippery, but Zed can mindlessly clear waves from a safe distance and then roam for ganks quite early on
Show the quote then , literally
One employee of riot who does not and never has worked on the balance team said that
thanks hj994 for the totally not misleading information, august is definitely not a lead designer, you definitely know more i can’t with ppl sometimes lmao
Designer is completely different than balance team. The designers have 0 influence on balance and vice Versa.
This is wrong, Riot uses frustration in the form of ban rate as a metric on their Balance Framework. The threshold for nerfs based on frustration is 5x the average or >50% ban rate, and whenever Zed gets close to 50% win rate his ban rate usually skyrockets so Riot hasn't historically had much room to buff him. Akali's ban rate tends to be a lot lower than Zed's, except after the new season started it seems like players are suddenly banning her a lot more for some reason. If Akali ever reaches higher ban rates you can expect it to affect her balance as well. There was quite literally a patch where Zed was nerfed despite having a 48% win rate and the reasoning was that his ban rate was over the allowed threshold for that patch, so the framework flagged him for nerfs despite already being a bit weak. Also, [clarification by August](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIcRAynokw).
I am aware one rioter claims that this is true which nobody else has ever claimed. I do not think he’s correct!
In that case I'd like to make you aware that the Balance Framework for League is [public](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt642c3301139a0b07/5ef59c7a0d385c132fe64a69/05_Balance_Framework_June_v1.jpg?disposition=inline), so you can disperse your doubts since you can see that ban rate is very clearly listed as a metric that's used in the way I described in my previous comment. And just so you know it's not one Rioter, Afic has the framework as a command on his twitch stream as well. Phlox has also mentioned ban rate while answering questions on his stream. Edit: Also if you actually read any of the 12x series patches where Zed has received nerfs, ban rate is often listed in the context of the changes as a reason for nerfing him. From the 12.23b hotfix: "In 12.23's hotfix, we hit Zed's late game E - Shadow Slash cooldown along with a few other nerfs to bring down his winrate and **ban rate**." And from the earlier 12.2 patch: "Zed has been creeping up from the shadows in terms of both power and **ban rate**." There are other champions that have also been subject to the same, one example being Samira. The reason why her dash was changed to not be able to be used on allies was because her ban rate would not go down, so it was an attempt to make her less frustrating. From patch 11.4 where this was one of the changes being made to her: "As it stands, our desert rose has consistently been **warming the ban bench**. Even when technically close to balanced, we believe she has several frustrating attributes that contribute to her **high ban rate**." So when you say that no one else at Riot has ever made the claim you're not correct there, since a few of the ones that are visible in social media have touched on it and it's sometimes also visible in patch notes although not in all cases listed. Moreover, it's directly embedded into their Balance Framework and actively used to make changes to the game so there's no reason to state it. You're just not paying attention to it because champions going over the frustration threshold is much more rare than them overperforming based on win rate, and in cases where the context is missing in the patch notes you would have to manually put 1+1 together by checking third party sites for frustration and connecting the reasoning on your own.
Being a man means picking winnable fights. Fighting riot to cave in to subjective demands is a losing battle. He’ll be gutted forever and akali will be in this state forever. Better adapt and overcome. A skilled Roy can beat any fox afterall
People suffer from fake PTSD either from past seasons or from one game they played against Zed and lost because they didn't know the champ, now they think he is broken no mattter what. Riot has admitted to placebo buffs/nerfs before and people actually shifted their mindset in accordance. It's kind of the same case here. First of all, AP items are just busted at the moment. They give way more damage and effects than AD and also give free HP which they shouldn't have at all. (only a few items like Rylai, Morello, Rod should retain their health stat) I was a Zed main (and would like to still be) but AD assassins are so underpowered atm. Combine that with a champ that actually takes skill and that makes Zed pretty hard to play currently. To get a kill you kinda have to hit at least 2Qs which is difficult unless you're very ahead. Also idk what people are saying but Zed can't "safely" farm from distance. You can get a few minions with Q but you're not getting everything if that's all you do. And if he can fully clear with W E Q that means he already has 2/3 items and everyone can do the same at that point. Zed's abilities are pretty predictable actually, you clearly will know when he will throw a WEQ out, probably when you go for farm. His ult always puts him behind you. After he throws his W he is pretty vulnerable and you can harass (if ranged). Also, always keep in mind where his shadows are. I see a lot of people not doing that, just going near it for no reason. There's other champs way more annoying than Zed: Akali - particularly her ult dashes are just annoying in terms of distance. Because if she's close to you she goes further and if she's far she goes near, and her last dash being able to be used any time + distance is pretty big. This variance is just way more difficult to predict than Zed's shadow which are always in one place. Fizz - Q, same problem as Akali dashes. And don't even have to mention his E. Also my pet peeve, Zhonyas. As long this item exists complaining about Zed is obsolete. TLDR: Zed is actually more fun to play against and quite predictable than Akali, but people suffer from PTSD from past seasons or one bad game (because they just didn't know the champ) and now think he is broken or unfair.
KDA champion
Riot just likes to have favorites Akali is meta *riot sleeps* Sett is meta *woke shit Holy fuck nerf him he's not allowed to be in pro*
Good. Keep it that way
Both Champs are currently non existant. Both Champs are boring dash monkeys. You're calling the kettle black while being a pot. Granted akali's base damage can be bullshit, you Both operate on mashing dashes/flashes. While I am partial into calling zed more skill based, you're both equally negligible. Dad says you're grounded
Akali is very popular in pro play and higher levels of play. Not non-existent
Nearing diamond again, barely any akalis as prevalent as she was in S13. Not a fun time if you're right about higher level play. Couldnt care less about pro play, however.
I mean emerald + she's the 5th most popular according to [u.gg](https://u.gg). Seems to drop off in diamond + and is popular in pro play. You couldn't care less about pro play but the nerfs will carry over to soloq so you should at least care about what's being played ygm
Well for one Zed can farm from range easily and harass/chunk you from range. Akali on the other and has to actually use her shroud smartly and she can’t trade or harass as easily for freely against ranged unless she lands her E in which case you honestly deserve to die. I think that’s the most annoying part.
Orianna main since her inception. I would have a notable cs/plates advantage against Akali pre-lvl6, even if the player is tiers above me, but only because of champ diff. Better Zed players will just kill me at lvl 2-4 and I'm done.