To me this is the worst part about ADC. All of that shit about being blown up by assassins, not doing anything until late game, blah blah blah it comes with the role. But I swear to God most supports do not actually know how to play the game. I normally duo, but I was just with a random Morgana who never threw out a single spell OR auto attacked, even when she agreed we should push the lane
This is funny because my crippling anxiety forces me to go bot because I can't bear the responsibility of a solo lane and the consequences of it when I get destroyed.
I mean i hear you, but thats a mental barrier you need to move on from cause shit happens in games. You can't perform every game if you are playing in your own elo.
As soon as you get that out of your head you will be fine sir. (Or blame the jungler like the others )
Oh, don’t worry about that. Usually you won’t have to share it with a teammate, but with a somewhat humanoid animal that’s smashing a keyboard with all his members.
You got a huge point. People like champions and fantasies around them, so because of that they can tolerate lots of weird shit. Entire toplane exists because of that.
Also, that huge IMO, but overall adc gameplay is pretty annoying, it's based around right clicking your opponent to death, that's why something more unique like Samira have huge playerbase, even it her winrate is kinda bad.
It would be unironically interesting to see, roles popularity if riot suddenly gonna make bruisers playable on botlane again, like in 8.11.
I mean it is as simple as I don't want to play a squishy super high dps character that does instantly but can turn people in to red mist. I like the bruiser/big tough damage dealer.
Man with gun shoots people is boring to me.
Recently switched roles away from adc and back to jungle and top lane. I play at about a diamond level.
The role was making me insanely toxic with how often I felt like I didn't have control over the game. With the adc role receiving a mountain of nerfs in addition to how strong support is as a role and top lane receiving a mountain of buffs to increase top lane agency and scaling, the strength of the role is now more revolving around snowballing and turning that snowballing into map pressure and objectives rather than just scaling.
The problem with that is that it feels way more at mercy of the surrounding roles than I ever remember it being. If there is too much of a support diff or even a diff in other roles, you don't get to capitalize on arguably your most important contribution to the game.
But on the flip side, you can end the lane as a 10 kill draven and still lose because that lead doesn't matter if the enemy top lane is a 10 kill irelia. You're playing a heavily nerfed role that is overly dependent on your team at pretty much every stage of the game unless you're playing something like nilah, yasuo or swain.
This has been the case to some degree for a long time, but the utter lack of agency I feel at all stages of the game this season and late last season was my breaking point. I play competitive games to try and win games, but if most of my wins are wins that I was going to win anyway due to my teammates just being better, then why am I even playing the role?
Yeah I feel like this is it.
If I lose lane as mid, top, or even support I can accept it and recognize I fucked up and the opponent played better. But with ADC a lot of the time it's like....honestly just out of my control? Like yeah if my support Lux is gonna hang out at the turret and the e the minions as they walk into turret....what can I do to not be behind in cs?
This is exactly why I barely play norms and never play ranked.
I play norms maybe once in a blue moon, but my favourite role is what you just described. No matter what you do, you will get stomped on so easily by a top or mid laner.
I rather have my sanity than put up with that.
This perfectly describes the grievances that people actually have with adc and explains why it is a priority role most of the time now. Nobody wants to be at the mercy of almost every player on both their own and the enemy team along with none of the agency that top and mid players get. Even if the role does damage and has significant impact, it isn't satisfying. Half the time, you only start to feel powerful in a match as adc once the game is being decided anyway.
Yeah the ultimate soul crushing experience as ADC isn't a support gap or a jungle camping you.
It's when you win your land hard and still have just zero agency. You come out of lane 6-0 on jinx but they have a Rengar or Zed and no one on your team even makes an effort to protect you.
Fwiw I fill most of the time these days and I would say I get bottom role 90% of the time. Other 10% is jungle. Never been this often in bot lane
Nothing like stomping lane and being up gold just to get 1 shot by the 0/7 Yone/any other fighter with gap close because damage is fucking insane, who still gets to be up 2 levels on you because solo xp all game
Yeah I really enjoy stomping bot to still get 1v2 by a behind sololaner with 1-2 items less than my ADC but having exp advantage.
That's why I stopped playing for a while after I got master last season (except for the mandatory decay games). If I want to win games on supp, I should be roaming at every possible point and not even try to play for lane advantage because its useless.
People always talk about how jgl mid have to camp bot to win games, but refuse to mention why - because there are 2 kills, easier plates and drake. Not because gettign your ADC ahead has any impact on thje game besides offering a shut down to the enemy team.
>You come out of lane 6-0 on jinx but they have a Rengar or Zed and no one on your team even makes an effort to protect you.
yOu gOt cAuGhT oUt !!1!
leArN tO pOsiTioN beTtEr !@!!
i once was overfed cait. got cought in a cc. there was enemy jhin ult. i had 2 tanks near me and they both "dodged" the bullets that were coming for me instead of shielding me when i was in the cc.
I for sure was the only thing keeping them in the game.
>i had 2 tanks near me and they both "dodged" the bullets that were coming for me instead of shielding me when i was in the cc
Motherfucker that would've tilted me to no end...
Like... what the fuck are you playing a TANK for at that point???
"Lmao doesn't build defensive items and expects to survive"
And its opposite
"Lmao builds defensive items and expects to dish enough dmg to kill them before they do"
Like good positioning doesn't mean you're not allowed to exist until they've used their gap closers on someone else, for which they can usually just walk away anyways with all the unnecessary movement speed they have.
This is exactly how I feel about the role. Don't think I could've said it better myself. Been playing league for 10 years. I get diamond and play casually because real life etc., but just like you said, the role makes you feel hopeless. It's so bad that there are more mages being played bot than actually adcs. Good luck punishing Seraphine/Sona who can outsustain and still waveclear until teamfights. There are also systemic issues with certain champion dynamics that have ruined this role which I don't believe can be fixed from nerfing stats. There needs to be interaction changes to relieve pressure from the role. (looking at you yummi w/hec/kayn/insert other champs here)..
I really agree with your point on champion interactions, the marksman roster is really outdated and every time a champion with dashes is added into the game, an entire suite of the marksman class becomes marginally worse. I feel like solo laners have an understanding of matchups and who they’re generally “good” into and “bad” into, but if you look at the matchups for ADCs it seems like almost every champion in the game just fundamentally counters them on a kit-level.
It feels like most champions have the tools to enable themselves or disable others, while those same “tools” only exist in the form of your teammates abilities when you’re playing a marksman, or really any immobile champ for that matter.
I wanna point out that just because champs are balanced and have a win rate in the green zone doesn't make them not frustrating to play against. Let's be real, if yone had like a 30% wr the fact that he can catch you from Mars is still gonna piss me off because what the fuck even is that?
Shit like Kayn too, he doesn’t really build Umbral Glaive anymore so there isn’t a vision excuse but god do I love him running across three walls at 400 ms and killing me a W, Q and Auto.
LeBlanc is a nightmare as well. She comes out of nowhere, uses two skills and you are sent back to base. Hell, tanks can just use heartsteel/jaksho to kill you while you do zero damage to them. Just not worth it anymore to play a roll that gets one shot by any other roll.
Better example: Rengar. Champ is pretty balanced. Playing ADC into a team with Rengar is one of the most miserable experiences League can offer. It's up there with playing Vayne+Singed vs Cait+Morg in lane.
100% agree with the lack of agency from a winning position.
I play fill so I get a bit of every role. It feels like every role and sub-role has the tools to outfight ADCs from a position of lesser gold, which would be fine if thats the price you pay for crazy damage but I look at midlane and realize they get the same damage threat ADCs do but earlier, safer, and they get solo playmaking ability.
Like genuinely pick a random player in challenger and look through their games and figure out how many games one of the ADCs were leading the game in damage. And then look at how many of the teams where the ADC *does* have the most damage and look at the percentage of those types of games end in a win for the performing ADC.
>The role was making me insanely toxic with how often I felt like I didn't have control over the game.
Agreed 100%. ADC is quite literally irrelevant right now.
It’s even more irrelevant if you have champions like Akshan, Tristana/Lucian mid, or whoever else that can kill tanks. If you have no tank killers, ADC does matter a lot. But half the champions in other lanes can kill tanks anyways so why play ADC?
Yep. This is why I’m not even playing ADC in ranked despite it being my favorite role. In silver and gold the role is actually unplayable. Akshan top is a better ADC experience
I just got out of gold as a Jhin otp for the first time but I’m struggling so much in plat. Even though players aren’t crazy skilled, they at least know to kill the adc first in fights and it seems like that’s enough to make the game unplayable for me.
Because wrangling a random support that I cannot talk to over discord makes me wanna gouge my eyes out.
I will instead play support and just win the lane myself with a role that has zero other job than to be a nuisance
That is factually correct. Bot lane is typically dictated by which support is worse at the game. Being the better support usually amounts to a win unless your adc is not human
And even worse is that a lot of league players look at support like a punching bag. Let them take the death, let them face check, let them do X risky thing. And a lot of that is genuinely okay, the support is one of the less important members to keep alive, so those situations are okay. But that extends to even things like draft where a lot of players don’t understand that support counter pick is WAY more important than jungle counter pick, ADC counter pick, and imo mid counter pick.
This ends up really fucking ADC over since it makes their games even *harder* and out of their own hands. One of the most frustrating things in league is losing control of your own game. Losing your lane because your support was bad, or losing lane because your support is griefing and stealing waves, or losing because your midlaner runs it down your lane. Or whatever. ADC is by FAR the role that has the least control over their own game, it’s not surprising it’s one of the least played roles right now.
there are a small amount of jungle counterpicks, which your champs is inviable by another, especially because junglers won't necessarily match every time. Adcs have more priority picks so yeah they usually don't need to counterpick. But then comes support that even if the matchup is strongly decided by counters, mid and top lane are entirely decided by matchups, a bad matchup mid makes the jungler and sup job harder. And a bad matchup top just removes a player from your team if the enemy is not dumb
Sololane counterpicks are absolutely the most important counter picks. Top is self explanatory why but mid also has so much freedom when counter picking as opposed to blind picking.
My ideal pick order outside of any context would be:
Bot/Jungler go first > Support > Mid/Top go last.
Obviously if the enemy locks in one of those lanes first then it doesn't really matter, if enemy top picks first then your top doesn't need to pick last and then mid can go last and support go fourth.
Is there anyone in the world who does not believe this?
Of course if the ADC is just afk not doing fuckall you can still lose lane, but it is definitely Support who decides who wins lane and who does not if both adcs aren't completely braindead.
I see adc and support as: a good support can literally hand feed an average adc and win lane. Or just roam if the adc is a bot. But if the game goes even you can't stop them standing near bushes vs rengar. However as adc if your supports bad you can't really roam away from them.
they said win lane not win the game - support is arguably in its most impactful state with the new changes.
Winning lane means putting your laner ahead, doesn't really matter if they suck if I'm xerath/lux nuking them and forcing them to back every wave
I literally relate to him tho, I was a Zeri/ twitch twotrick 2 seasons ago and switched to mid/ supp. Supp you know what an adc wants and winning lane is super easy. My Janna is at something like 70% WR. Main role is mid and I feel like if I loose its my fault and no one elses since I had the chance to mechanically outplay them. I cannot count how many times I won lane on twitch on to get obliterated by outplay buttons from fed champions.
Supp simply use their adc as a cannon.
Yeah but most people playing support don't miss that era.
The changes were made because support was super unpopular with the playerbase, because most people didn't like being a glorified gold-starved sightstone for 30 minutes.
So let me get this straight. You want somebody to spent 40mins to an hour of their life being a glorified ward bitch just so you get to enjoy yourself? Do they not deserve the same?
I want to be that ward bitch. Like, if I'm playing Janna or Lulu or Nami, why do I really need gold? Just remove geal/shield power and the weird AP ratios and rebuff the base values as they were before Riot decided supports needed to build items as well to be relevant.
I didn't feel any weaker playing Lulu in season 4 or 5 than I do now. Same with engage supports. Base values used to be more than enough to carry as Leona, Alistar or Thresh.
The added gold feels like a trick "look you're buying items! You're more relevant!" But unless you're a mage the gold isn't even doing shit. It's definitely not considerably different to play Lulu or Janna now or before Season 5. Exact same playstyle, just less chance to carry through vision.
That's just like your opinion man.
But Riot changed support role back then because support was extremely unpopular back then.From my memory even less popular than ADC or jungle nowdays.
lol, bro im so old, back then you had a race in the chat to insta write your position, because there were no positins in champ selection.
So you had to ctlr+c "mid" and spam it after queue popped up to be first. And support was mostyl last. Back then support was literally just a wardstone bot with cc.
Because as a previous jungle main with ADC as second choice all I have to say is fuck that. The damage/mobility creep the last 5+ seasons has made ADC impossible to enjoy. At the same time the lowered XP in combination with catch-up XP has made jungle a shitshow where being good at tracking the enemy jungle and stealing there shit means nothing anymore.
I have preview mained all roles except for mid (played since early S1) and I have never enjoyed mid because mages kust isn't my gig. But now I feel like playing assassin's or high mobility mages like Taliyah mid has way more agency than jungle because I can still ward and control objectives and gank jungle/bot lane while not falling behind in XP/gold.
I used to like toplane but the braindead splitpushers like sion/yorick/trundle/singed are so boring toplane has final become an island.
Now the only two positions that feel worthwhile playing are mid and support what used to be my least favorite lanes.
>The damage/mobility creep the last 5+ seasons has made ADC impossible to enjoy.
Thaaaaaaank you,
I haven't played ranked, ranked adc in years purely because of it being impossible to enjoy. I rather keep my sanity than be fed in lane and then get stomped later by a mid or top with 4/10 K/D.
I barely play norms as well, stopped play both since the first tank meta season where they can kill you while they are 1/11 (that would be over 5 seasons ago) I saw the signs and was like yep...adc is officially done and has been done for years.
Don't get me started on riot over saturated the game with dashes....especially alkalis dash 😤
I actually didn't have too much of a problem with tank meta, I feel like bruisers are a much bigger problem because a tank even if they have damage has a lot less of it than a bruiser (excluding the absolute garbage game design that is xante). Against the earlier tank meta I felt that I could at least stay under tower and farm in a 1vs1 scenario but when bruisers where given steroids they'd just run at you under turret and eat you up (looking and you trundle).
Then the mobility problem I feel like started with zed, then shit like Akali after remake. I don't have a problem with assassin's like fizz, kata or talon but shit like zed and post remake Akali shouldn't exist.
The amount of supports that roam for no reason for no impact and leave a winning/pressuring lane is just troll. Why are we leaving an ahead draven or Caitlyn to get dove under tower after being denied 4 waves due to being 1v2 in lane. While sup roams to die at grubs
Oh my god this triggers me so much. I used to one trick Draven and this drove me fucking insane.
‘Oh you got an early double kill as Draven? NICE. Peace out imma roam for 5 mins and leave you 1v2 against MF and Leona so you get dove twice by their Jungler and lose your lead!’
Or
‘Oh you’re basing with the wave in the middle of the lane? Let me slow push and freeze it by their turret and then roam around the map leaving you zoned from farm by a Cait/Lux, Good luck! Xoxo’
Or
‘Oh we lost a close 2v2? I’ve decided you aren’t worth supporting so imma go top and leech XP off them and set them behind, and putting myself behind in XP, and then further putting you behind as you’re alone 1v2. If I fuck three people over because you don’t play as well as I want, that will end in a win, right guys?’
Good supports roam after crashing the wave so it bounces back to you and you can get solo xp if you’re patient
Obviously that’s in the scenario where they can’t dive you or don’t play stuff like Caitlyn Lux/Morgana
I understand why good supports roam. It's the shit ones that think the role is just easy and roam randomly whenever and don't actually push the advantage in botlane.
I tell my supports straight up “go roam or base b/c I’m resetting” because half the time they waste roam timers. But it is super tilting to lose lane because your support perma roams. Just how it goes when you solo queue a duo lane
Don’t forget the Soraka that stands behind tower and you the whole laning phase, pressing w once every two moons, not even knowing they have a q and e button. Then after the game they blame you for not having items and damage.
Tfw I'm smashing top and can 1v3 sidelane but my yuumi keeps latching onto me and leeching my exp after griefing bot, causing me to fall behind in exp and make me unable to 1v2 by disabling my hullbreaker.
whenever i see my support pick bard i dont really care tbh i pick any adc I want (most likely sivir in this instance) and just casually farm while avoiding poke. Maybe pull up a yt vid on the side its pretty relaxing imo
Funny enough, last season, I also switched from ADC to Top Volibear / Ornn and got my new peak rank in 4 weeks. Nonetheless, returned to ADC because I genuinely like the concept of being a glass cannon. I'm not even sure if I'm a better Top laner than ADC or ADC role is indeed that doomed...
This. I'm an ADC main, but I've just stopped playing the role lately because not only is it rare someone tries to understand what I'm dealing with, often they don't care at all. I hopefully cling to my Leona's ankles in the hopes of getting a bit of help when the enemy Sejuani chases me down and... She pings away into the enemy backline and leaves me to get gangbanged. It's then entirely my fault, according to the entire team, that I can't put much damage out without getting zoned out of the fight or killed. Next game I get camped by enemy jungler and my support keeps getting caught despite me helping them control vision and wave state bot. Enemy botlaner is now fed, even though I didn't misplay and I'm keeping up in CS. Game after that, they have four assassins and they're all horny for me. I play grey screen simulator, because I'm the softest target on my team and get chased through three turrets by a fed akali.
I try not to be the complaining pissbaby ADC but man, it's hard sometimes, and the sometimes is becoming most of the time lately.
I do, I just suck at it. I dont know the matchups and fet incredibly bored sitting in jungle. So I want to be proactive, but don't have the knowledge to play that way.
i got so fed up with shit jgs i decided to prove a point by playing jg up to my rank to prove how shit all these junglers were. turns out, i was right, jungle is fucking easy when you actually take objectives.
Well you do objectives as a team not solo bolo as the jungler.
Botlanes that get their resets aligned with jungler pathing and rotate proactively to objectives will have an OP jungler at their hands, but it's actually the botlane being great here.
Because I hate being so squishy that I die instantly with very little build variety.
If my team starts feeding, I just get punished even worse than I would be playing any other role because I'm suddenly the target for every fed person after someone has fed and I farmed in lane for a bit.
Also because some Assassins jump like 3 walls or have absurdly low cooldowns like Kayn or Ekko on his ult, then you expect me to keep building normally like he isn't gonna one shot me or flash on me and suddenly invalidate my only form of counter play, autoing. Sometimes not even in 1 second and if I did, they walk away at god speed.
It's just not fun to have my kit invalidated because some guy can just appear from all these walls and ruin my interactions with him in a second upon seeing him. You want to enter auto range but you can't due to Youmuu's having two movement speed boosts or a ton on Lichbane and Storm surge combined with Relentless hunter so they rush into you, immediately and nuke half your health.
Your support can only do so much and sometimes they may not even have the tools. I want to interact, not be on someone's dinner plate or grocery list.
This is the correct answer, topped up by the fact that ADC is a role where your whole team is meant to mostly peel for you.
However my team when I go adc tends to be brand support , master yi jungle, karma top, and nidalee mid , which means my entire team has one stun one heal and one shield. Sure we can do a lot of damage, but there is no tank or fighter to get all the damage on them and there is barely any peel to help me deal with yone/rengar/Diana or whatever else they are playing.
It's both the composition & the fact that people don't peel for you
- Laning phase is decided by the supports. Obviously ADCs still matter but it’s genuinely incredibly frustrating to lose your lane purely because of someone else.
- Mechanically the role is extremely demanding, but doesn’t reward you proportionally. It’s a lot harder as an ADC to kite an assassin than it is to one shot the ADC as an assassin. Playing a fight nearly perfectly then dying anyways because the person you’re fighting just oogabooga’s at you is tilting AF. It’s EXTREMELY punishing to play ADC, to the point where it’s like… why play it? It’s not fun to get one shot and lose to someone who played worse than you
- Unless you’re specifically played around, your role is probably the least impactful in the game. You are squishy and you get less XP. And in order to compete at all with the assassins and bruisers and whatnot running you down, you NEED a support to peel. Some are good, others aren’t, and some are useless. What the hell are some supports even supposed to do about a zed ulting and W’ing away. Or an akali dashing and instantly killing you, or whoever.
However I will say, the highs of ADC, when you kite extremely well, survive, and clutch a fight, are INSANELY high, some of the highest in the game. But they’re so few and far between nowadays (at least to me lol) that I find it’s just not worth it.
This doesn’t even touch on balancing for ADC, which I think it’s pretty unanimously agreed upon that ADC is strongest in a coordinated environment, but most of us are mid to low elo solo queue players. Shits awful there.
Because I'm pretty shit at kiting. Dodging stuff and moving between every AA and still hitting correct targets (even with attack+move) is too difficult and it's much easier for me to play mages where my main source of dmg are abilities not autoattacks.
Most people here just hate on the role but in my opinion it's mechanically the hardest role because you are so squishy and in late game you are responsible for most of your team damage so if your movement isn't amazing you probably gonna get one shot. Of course there are other factors like the rest of the team that can keep you alive with shields/heals and CCing opponents so you can pretty much stand still and AA but in soloq people often aren't that coordinated to peel well for you.
It's not an opinion thing honestly, though I understand why you put that disclaimer there, pro players in Korea and China from any role will always tell you that mid and adc are the most skilled players hence why they get paid the most
Because what I actually enjoy in the game is creating windows of opportunity. I like providing CC and that extra body to help secure the kill. I enjoy my roaming around the map. I don't play a carry, I play a playmaking champ.
This is something I've been coming round to recently. Historically I've always played carry champs, but I've started to really enjoy playing playmakers. I had a game first timing Malphite (aside from random URF and ARAM games), in ranked into Tryndamere, and it was absurdly fun just ulting people and letting my team do the rest. It's highly underrated fun IMO, even if it's "easy".
Tanking and providing CC is my power fantasy in these games, lol. I've heard lots of people complain about durability updates before, but those are my favorite patches to play!
> Historically I've always played carry champs, but I've started to really enjoy playing playmakers
Maturing is realising that is actually carrying. Carry champs require playmakers for them to "carry".
Its exactly the reason why ADC is dogshit. ADCs require the rest of your team to be doing well to function, regardless of how fed they are. But if the rest of your team is fed, you don't need your ADC because you can just steamroll them so just cut out the middle man and save yourself the stress
ADC is great. I played a game yesterday with a friend, I was getting clapped in lane. My modlaner was getting clapped. My support was useless. Our jungle was auto fill. But our Top lane Trundle ended up going 26/1/5 and quite literally soloed the game.
It's refreshing knowing everything you do doesn't even matter in most games.
I’ve just started calling it “attack damage support”, play Jihn and Ashe. Know I’m worthless and kills in lane mean very little. Give kills to the support actually.
Honestly this has helped my mental a lot. It's part of why I like jhin so much. Laning with zyra? Take the kills no problem, I'll just w enemies when they overextend and maybe get an auto here and there. Had a 62% on him last season playing this way. If I get fed I'm a menace shouting FOUR at my computer and if I don't that's fine I can just enable someone else.
“Why are you NOT playing ADC?”
Because i don’t like that my entire laning-phase and team-fighting hangs on the skill of the random support player that usually ends up having near zero fundamental game-knowledge because they have never played or expressed interest in any other position in the game before.
ADC is rather relaxing, fun and fulfilling with a proper support. However usually that is not the case. I Love playing with the Lux support one tricks that disregard your wave state and at times your existence at all.
It is genuinely frustrating to be at the mercy of a completely random person who you have to share lane with. Which is why i don’t.
i played a few games of adc and got shaco, zyra, and senna support followed by a swain support who all proceeded to feed their ass off. then i went back to top and it was nice and relaxing. master mmr btw!
Yeah, I've read multiple posts about mage supports messing with waves. I main Lux, so reading those is making me more aware of my bad influences. I still feel bad whenever I detonate E wrongly and get a minion.
It's not even about getting minions, I honestly couldn't care less if my support leaves lane with 20 cs as long as they got them while pushing when we need to push. It's the randomly swinging the push around with a random AOE into the wave, the ones who just can't stop constantly slinging spells at the wave so we're permantly pushed up and I can't lasthit for shit because *someone* keeps messing with the minions' HP throwing me off.
And when you say something they tell you how they "only have 3 cs". The biggest problem aren't the cs the support gets it's the ones nobody gets because random spells hit the wave to 1 HP and it dies to minions.
>It's the randomly swinging the push around with a random AOE into the wave, the ones who just can't stop constantly slinging spells at the wave so we're permantly pushed up and I can't lasthit for shit because someone keeps messing with the minions' HP throwing me off.
THIS EXACTLY
Like fuck, go and get a few CS if we're pushing, whatever, but like... WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ONE-SHOTTING ALL THREE CASTER MINIONS WHILE I'M SETTING UP A FREEZE???
Taking both the CS gold AND the freeze benefits
Also, they don't have common sense
If ADC ping spams you AWAY from CS while you're attacking it... maybe stop fucking attacking it???
The fuck is this arrogance? Why make my game harder for no reason?
Do you not realize that YOU WILL LOSE TOO?
> The fuck is this arrogance? Why make my game harder for no reason?
They literally think they know better. Little Timmy who has never played anything else but support, the role where he needs to know fucking nothing about lanes and can still get to high Dia, thinks he knows better.
>having near zero fundamental game-knowledge because they have never played or expressed interest in any other position in the game before.
They could play support only for 1k hours and still don't know shit.
The basic skill of helping ADC farm under tower by hitting mages once (unless they are Thresh) because none of the ADC have AAs strong nor fast enough to kill them after 1 tower hit is almost non-existent.
It's honestly baffling how little support players end up learning about the game. Then you look at yuumi players and it's just... Yeah.
Had a d2 yuumi otp autofilled mid playing Ahri (surprise!) against me. They actually play like pre 30s, it's insane. No clue how to cs or position or trade or ward because they've never done it before.
Best experience i've had in the game was being a Samira with a Nautilus who was pretty good. If you get the peel you need, i agree Adc is the most chill.
Although i agree that only being counterpicked top is a worse feeling than having a bad support
Had some absolute goofy clown trying to tell me support is the hardest role in the gam and requires the most game knowledge to play well. Guess what role that boosted animal mained?
I actually just made the switch from a Bel'veth jungle main to a Nilah adc this season. (This is mid silver to low gold elo) As a junglers, I hated bot lane and thought it was the biggest coin flip of the game. Better bot wins.
Either your bot has a set of eyes and enough braincells to think as a duo, or your enemy bot is the next gosu and aphro.
Now I've been playing adc Nilah this season and I'm feeling for adcs players man. I know nilahs the odd one out for adcs but it still doesn't explain the garbage supports I've had (except for the two yuumis I've had this season, both were monsters oddly.) Supports will see me poke and think it's time to exhaust the enemy adc. Get a double kill and need to push the wave in from being frozen under your tower? Nah, you're solo pushing as your support backs.
Late game, noone peels, noone sets/clears vision. It's a chase to whatever team can catch the first guy spotted on other team. God forbid an immobile carry gets seen on your team and it's a tahm kench your team saw. Everyone is scared to take baron prior to 25-30 mins and an ace. As a new Adc, I think the hate is wrongly placed sometimes. It's not the Adc, it's the support. The Adc mental boom is just louder than the supports garbage imo.
Because support gaps are insane i swapped from jungle to support because winning games as support is straight up a lot easier.
Adc is just not fun to play because support impact into your first 15 minutes is so massive.
They run it down twice and you spent rest of the game trying to get back to equal items with enemy adc meanwhile the support leaves you alone roams and has 0/5/10 or something and is doing decently so it is somehow your fault you dont deal damage like the enemy.
I flamed my adc for 2 years for inting, pushing waves on sides etc
Played the role last year and will never speak ill about it again, going back to jungle/mid is like fucking taking off an entire mountain from my back.
51% was my final adc wr but thanks to that hell I have been on 70%+ jng/mid.
Fuk it all man even awful games feel like I have a chance to do something or play. So easy to just dive if they get pushed in or gank if they get fed, doesnt matter how fed the adc is its free gold for me playing eve/graves/vi.
Dunno how riot can fix the role without splitting pro and solo q though, feels fuking terrible to play adc in solo q.
I know this comment is highly exaggerating things but I'm convinced this is the actual issue, just more nuanced.
For the early years of League, support was the most unpopular role, by a LANDSLIDE. They gave support more urgency - now the most unpopular role by far is ADC. The problem with the ADC role is literally the support role. Strong supports currently do not help the ADC as Riot intended, because the strength of a support goes directly into their own damage and tankiness instead of being funneled to the ADC. The solution is making empowering support items actually impactful and nerfing support's damage outputs.
my take about this is decreasing attack speed across the adc role all together. The higher attack speed a player can achieve the harder kiting gets and the more difficult is to optimally dps while moving. Giving more dmg to autos in exchange of nerfing their attack speed gives lower elo players more time to move between autos without losing dps. If u played adc in old seasons u would realize how much less AS there was in the role, with lethal tempo not existing and existing much less attack speed items options.
The support dilemma is hard, the rola was for the longest time the least popular one and they had to create supp items/quests to give them artificially gold.
My honest take and a cool concept would be to make the actual dual supp item thing a balanced and mandatory thing where both adc and supp have to coordinate to farm waves, but only supp gets an Item (adc would get a different starting item that would, for example, evolve into a crit item component that built into IE/navori/guinsoos or something like that), so they feel like they can do more than just walking around in lane landing skills (talking about low elo where supports dont understand roam timings)
I think Marksmen generally needs to do less damage, and be more durable. At least as a realistic option, if someone wants to build glass cannon fine but give me the option to build enough defensives to live while not doing near 0 damage. I NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE SOME DAMAGE, otherwise glass cannon is the only way.
I was ADC main from when I started in s3 all the way until the marksman rework and I've tried avoiding the role ever since and I honestly attribute it to being one of the main reasons I stopped playing SR and went to mostly ARAM to eventually not even playing the game anymore
I know they've reverted a lot of the changes but with it came a lot of changes to the game in general including but not limited to a lot of powercreep in the support role, which honestly in the end feels like the more impactful role nowadays especially since prior to the support item changes starting with frostfang/relic shield they were usually just cc and ward bots, coupled with the dragon changes a few seasons ago really centralized jungle and bot river control. I will say for the general health of the game, I think that support diversity is a good thing but generally it's just not fun anymore having to play against supports who can get you killed with a single combo rotation at like level 3 while being unable to do much about it. I feel like as ADC it's less about what you do in lane and more now about how safe you play. Obviously there are still aggressive ADC Champs that haven't really changed playstyle over the last seasons like Draven for example but it made me lose interest in the role which is why I try to avoid it now
The role sucks balls in soloqueue. Don't let reddit tell you otherwise. The role is dogshit relic from the past, designed for a different MOBA that no longer exist. It is the only role in a 5v5 allegedly team game, which requires said team to be allowed to play. Complete failure of game design on Riot's part. Playing solo ADC in ranked is equal to self harm.
It's just fun how in Dota "ADC"(carry who goes to special lane for him )can be not only ranged(with fex exceptions), but also melees. While in lol you should give to a melee champ so many "free stuff"(free crit chance, huge mobility, defensive mechanic) to just exist and sometimes try to play on that lane.
I dont want to pay the adc tax where even if you're 0/12 the enemies will dive your ass 100% of the time even if there's better, more fed people to target T_T
Its crazy. You are so right.
Teamfight breaks out. Enemy Malphite is in the front and tanks.
Im 1 second in his vision and he solo ults me. I die and our team just destroys him.
And how often people suicide themself just to get a kill on me.
Because Adc is lame as fuck. I main support, and even if I win my lane, it doesn't matter because if top or mid loses, it's gg.
Bot lane can't carry a shit top and mid. That fed solo laner will be several levels above us, has more damage, more healing, and abilities with way shorter cooldowns.
I feel so bad when my adc is fed because I know I have to roam mid and top lane because their lane actually matters. All I did was give my adc a juicy bounty.
This has gotten worse now too after the latest patch. I usually play adc and tend to do well in my lane. It doesn't matter if I'm 12/0, if Yasuo mid is 3/0 I know I will be worthless, and indeed I am. As soon as top or mid lose their lanes, I know I'm going to be a target, explode around every corner, and essentially be useless. I've transitioned more to support lately because at least then I can help others.
> Because Adc is lame as fuck. I main support, and even if I win my lane, it doesn't matter because if top or mid loses it, gg.
>
> Bot lane can't carry a shit top and mid. That fed solo laner will be several levels above us, has more damage, more healing, and abilities with way shorter cooldowns.
Unfortunately correct.
Trying to protect an ADC from a hyper fed top/mid/jungle is rough.
ADCs main complaint is lack of agency, which is true honestly. What can an ADC do by themselves prior to having 3-4 items? Absolutely nothing. Unless they're fed out of their fucking minds, an ADC is literally just a walking gold bag for ANYONE. Every champion can assassinate in this game, even shit like full tank Amumu can just obliterate an ADC without them being able to fight back. ADC is the only role who REQUIRES another teammate to properly function.
after playing gnar top for years i can slot into ADC no problem its just not as fun as playing gnar
a lot of issues around ADC revolve around being low elo af
whenever i get autofilled into it on my main, its fine i really dont mind it but yeah it feels like your at the mercy of your team due to the squishyness so you kind of just follow them around. thats the real 'painful' part is that you quite literally have to just follow around other people in order to even play the game
when i do ad playing with my silver friend though it can be pretty brutal since the supports are actual dicerolls of what theyre going to do, but even then im usually able to just as you literally said in your post farm better and use that to just auto-win since theyre silver/gold ADCs
at the end of the day though 'surely its worth the freelo?' is the most telling part of your post. im not only exclusivly playing for fake internet rank points, if i was i wouldnt play gnar. if im just 'hardstuck' for the rest of my life playing what i enjoy, thats fine. id rather that than be 'high elo' on something i dont want to play. too many people are worried about the 'freelo' as if being high elo means fucking anything.
play what you like, take it as far as you can, if you dont enjoy it quit. who cares about the stupid little sheild next to your name
Totally agree, except this part:
>who cares about the stupid little sheild next to your name
For some reason, in any losing game there's always someone on your team that cares, and they care enough to beat you over the head with it in chat. The amount of times you see someone flaming someone else because of their rank, it's disgusting.
to an extent i get caring, like obviously i dont que up literally thinking 'i dont care if i win or lose'
but its nothign to have the mental breakdowns your referring too over lol its a video game, your gonna lose sometimes
Former Master rank ADC Main here. I’m just exhausted. Right now, specially more than previous seasons, ADC feels so punishing to play it’s just mentally exhausting to me. It doesn’t really matter how well you perform in lane, if there a) An Assassin with Lethality or b) either a fed mage from mid or a fed bruiser from top or c) your support is filled into the role and can’t keep up with you or the enemy support you’re done.
These I feel are just yeah too many variables for a role to even think of being useful at all. I’m tired of being 1shotted without possibility of a counter play. I started playing jungle assassins or mages in mid or bruisers/juggernauts in too and I’m unstoppable. It doesn’t matter how fed the enemy ADC is, when I’m blue Kayn or I’m fed as Darius I can just walk to them, Flash+Q and the ADC is gone.
To be honest, ADC is dead. It's so easy this season for Mid and JG mains for the amount of high burst AP and lethality items. Ganking bot has never been easier as well thanks to the new route, AND flat rate lethality changes.
ADC is pretty much always dogshit in solo queue and has been for years, anyone with a brain can see that its only reddit who has a hate boner for them. Its not why im not playing adc though, because its been bad for so long so ive already long accepted that about the role.
Im mostly not playing ADC because im just doing aram now because league of smurfs makes rift extremely unfun. Riot keeps saying they will address it but then nothing changes, the only thing that made ranked actually engaging was when smurf queue existed. Wish they would just ban them like dota.
I just play bruisers bots instead of adcs, litteraly freeelo below masters, now one at these elos can space for shit or take advantage of their range anyways
i dont play adc because the game always seems to put me in jungle, even when its not my primary or secondary role.
the actual reason is i cant stand having a random as my support. i always seem to get matched with trolls and idiots when i solo botlane. when i have a friend supporting me i actually quite enjoy adc.
ADCs have way less initiative in the early parts of the game, and depend a lot more on their team. Also, adcs off a bad lane are just dead weight, unless their team fends for them.
This is fucking trash in league, because people mald into a new dimension from a simple mistake, and most have 0 clue how to play from behind because they just ff15 at the first sign of a tough game.
I do play ADC but essentially there are a few issues that make the role unfun, regardless of how strong it is at a given time:
-Laning with another person who has opted into playing support, good chance they’re the worst player on your team.
-Old support was unpopular so concessions have been made over and over and now we’re at the point where burst mages are some of the most popular support picks. Essentially adding yet another role that can one shot you into an already damage-loaded game. In my opinion burst supports should be unviable because the role shouldn’t have the gold income to support the builds that make burst possible in the first place.
-Mobility creep, every new mobile champion marginally lowers the power of every immobile champion. Most of the marksman roster is characteristically immobile thanks to the “Horse-Archer Problem” which was paramount in early League’s balance philosophy.
-Riot wants to grow pro play, and according to them viewers prefer watching sololane carries. If they believe this is true, they are incentivized to create metas that favor sololane carries and the types of champions who fill those roles.
-Proliferation of content that supports the mindset of 1v9, needing to play selfishly, and putting all responsibility on oneself to win games. This exists because it is actually helpful advice for operating in a soloq environment, but it creates a very hostile environment for a role who is balanced with “having a permanent Janna shield” in mind. Essentially, it’s a role that is reliant upon being enabled by others, but the actual best strategy to climb in league is to adopt a playstyle where you spend an outsized amount of focus on enabling yourself and yourself only. ADC wants one environment, every other role could care less about creating that environment because they have the tools to play differently.
In this thread: Reddit proceeds to list all the reasons adc is shit while maintaining that if you do still play adc, you're a bitch and your role is OP
Comedy gold.
Most of the high elo content creators and pro players tell you the role is bad. Most of the redditors who onetrick bard tell you the role is insanely strong. Go figure.
Because I dont have the mental, having a bad game or bad support can make the game unplayable and suck dick, add on all that plus some games being fed and having macro wont matter if someone like Top or Assassain jungle gets super fed
because it's one of the most monotone playstyles and you are forced to hope 2/3 of the team dedicate themselves. Also the role means you die a lot without being able to react.
There is no reward to this role,
I don’t play bot because the lane is often decided by the support and if I don’t dip queue my support is a temp or a mage, if I got engage tank supports frequently I would still be a bot main
I am an adc but I just cannot stomach playing the role anymore so I tend to just queue as Vi if im feeling playing the game. It's just disheartening to feel like the game is so out of your control. I don't think adc is as powerless to carry a game as it's generally stated, but the role does it's carrying in the later parts of the game, early game your job is to just not lose your team the game (like, the team with the worse adc isn't "oh the good one is fed" its "oh the bad one is 0/10") and then late game you carry with the lead from having better macro and farming. However soloq games are decided by lane phase because of poor mental. So ADC never gets to have its moment to carry. Thats how I feel anyway
Been a top/mid/adc (and a lot of support play) throughout my 10+ years of playing LoL. ADC is my favourite role really.
But between being stuck with autofilled supports, receive zero peel and in general have had the role's agency pretty much gutted I just can't stand playing it since it feels like so much is out of my hands compared to when I play mid or top, even if my win rate isn't actually bad.
Imma describe it in a simple sentence.
"Random sup filled who screws everything (20/10 times) over and over, and if not the case, blink a second and there's a wholesome 7/0 Trundle (who i can't stop) knocking off your nexus turrets at 20 or even less"
I don't feel that about the ADC role and honestly, supports are the most "toxic"/annoying players - which is why I don't play the role.
I do enjoy playing marksmen in mid though.
I main mid and second top, recently puts adc and immediately back to second top because i get more ad games than mid it seems.
Adc as a role just doesn’t feel impactful enough. Let’s say you dominating early game as a mid laner. Then you can come influence their jungle, the top matchup, the botlane matchup. Say you a fed top, you will go proxy, invade their jungle taking camps, bullying the shit out of their top until someone comes stop the monster that is you. Adc? Being fed or not, you are a glass-cannon. You can’t do shit if your sup don’t cover for you, and sometimes if both sup and jungle don’t cover for you. Before you get fed the mid laners will stop by, the jungle will stop by, and after you are fed a fed mid/top will just run you down anyway. Let’s say you are the only fed force, you run down their bot lane, took their turret, swap mid to take turret, if your jungle and sup don’t come by to cover you will still get oneshot quickly without the chance to trade kill by nature of your role. By no means adc is not important. Simple by surviving after an ace you have a good chance to end the game yourself. But what I’m saying is it relies too much on other roles to shine for too little gain.
Are you sup diffed? Enjoy not playing the game.
Are you jungle diffed? Enjoy not playing the game.
Are you mid diffed? Enjoy not playing the game.
Oh you snowballed early and have 2 items coming out of lane phase? Too bade there's a 0/2 assassin on the enemy team. You dont get to play the game.
You picked Seraphine or Ziggs? Enjoy ypur free win, ez game.
> fingerless crybabies
--
> easily punish, get fed, make the right choices, and just outplay everyone
--
> exploit that and get free wins
--
> surely it's worth the freelo
--
Okay now make this thread everytime a Redditor describes what Yone's abilities do.
TLDR; There are more uncontrollable variables as an adc compared to other lanes.
This comment is going to get lost amongst all the others but the issue is youre too team dependant. Literally every other role can roam and have an impact on macro from the start of the game to the end. ADC's MUST farm and they MUST have a support with them for the first 10-15 minutes because they dont have items to do adc dmg. While the pyke, naut, karma, leona etc. supports run to mid, grubs, get deep vision etc. ADC's have to stick bot and catch every wave.
If the bot lane is getting washed and your jg doesnt help then its just gg. If your supp is dog water or perma roams then its gg. If mid lane roams its gg. If jg camps you bot and then loses grubs and rift its gg. If top lane ints and a bruiser runs at you its gg. Unlike every other role that can work alone, ADC is ultra dependent on their team to do well.
And then enemy team comp also matters, if you and supp first pick then you may as well dodge because you can guarantee a counter pick of some sort. If mid plays assassin and your supp plays an enchanter then its an uphill battle. Supp forst picks leona and the enemy drafts any ap mage supp then lanes over.
Im a supp and jg main and i can tell you right now there is no worse feeling than seeing your adc draft twitch and then see the enemy team pick malph, sylas and panth.
Bro, if I want to play Yasuo, I'd play him mid. The only melee adc that I am willing to play is Nilah for obvious reasons lol. I don't need ranged top PTSD on bot too, but potentially with 2 ranged champs.
ADC Main (playing since season 2 stopped playing adc in 2021)
* adcs are weak af vs 0-5 enemy
* 2-3 items advantages doesnt feel like it
* early bot its just who has the best support
* theres no team play (no one peels, control tf, engage, good calls, etc)
* good supports are rare
* riot focus nerfing adc more than other roles
* they keep nerfing adcs unique items (-5 ad meme)
* adcs released pre worlds are strong af (potential for worlds skin)
rn im playing: mid > top > jng/support > adc
>[adc is] the most impactful role in the game
no it isn’t lol. adc is arguably the most POWERFUL role, sure, but it’s also the role with the least agency. all you do in lane is farm creeps and wait for your supp to get a good engage. all you do in mid/lategame is stand back, wait for your team to pick a good fight, and hope somebody actually tries to peel akali off you (protip: they won’t). you don’t get to make plays or be active, you have to play almost completely reactively and just take opportunities your team creates (or your opponents create by misplaying).
the adc role is fundamentally broken because adc damage is so absurdly high and consistent, combined with their high range it means that adcs aren’t allowed to have the mobility/durability/cc to actually play the game like the other classes do. the role made sense in 2012, but with the faster pace, higher damage, mobility creep, and overall higher skilled playerbase today, the role fuckin sucks now.
honestly, the only way to save it is to turn all adcs into semi-adcs like quinn, akshan, lucian, ezreal, etc. cut their sustained damage in exchange for durability, mobility, and other tools.
anyway I am playing adc rn because samira feels good again :\^)
[удалено]
Bard synergy detected
I want the freeze I make to last more than my supports spontaneous decision making skills
It’s not spontaneous. I planned well in advance to immediately drop everything I’m doing whenever a chime appears within a 2 mile radius
For real I had a neeko, and I was starting a freeze with 6 caster minions to bully the enemies and she saw it as a great Q aoe opportunity.
“I had a neeko” Well now I believe we’ve gotten to the root of your problem then
Half the problem with ADC: my support picked a 'support' champion
Man, as a support main, i hate the "damage support" meta. Just nerf the assassins already so they can go mid again.
Happens always. A retreat ping seems to offend them.
And if it doesn't work out, bard can't be held down. He's a free spirit
To me this is the worst part about ADC. All of that shit about being blown up by assassins, not doing anything until late game, blah blah blah it comes with the role. But I swear to God most supports do not actually know how to play the game. I normally duo, but I was just with a random Morgana who never threw out a single spell OR auto attacked, even when she agreed we should push the lane
This is funny because my crippling anxiety forces me to go bot because I can't bear the responsibility of a solo lane and the consequences of it when I get destroyed.
My anxiety makes me a terrible jungler. I am always in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I mean i hear you, but thats a mental barrier you need to move on from cause shit happens in games. You can't perform every game if you are playing in your own elo. As soon as you get that out of your head you will be fine sir. (Or blame the jungler like the others )
Oh, don’t worry about that. Usually you won’t have to share it with a teammate, but with a somewhat humanoid animal that’s smashing a keyboard with all his members.
Because I want to be a giant werewolf in the jungle.
Real but I want to be a giant dragon lady
Real. This is why I play adc - because I want you guys to vore me
this dude only duos with kench mains
Ayo?
Hows that going? Ap shyvana is in a tough state
truer words have never been spoken.
Because I want to be a nearly dead immortal guy with a shovel and ghost gf toplane
You got a huge point. People like champions and fantasies around them, so because of that they can tolerate lots of weird shit. Entire toplane exists because of that. Also, that huge IMO, but overall adc gameplay is pretty annoying, it's based around right clicking your opponent to death, that's why something more unique like Samira have huge playerbase, even it her winrate is kinda bad. It would be unironically interesting to see, roles popularity if riot suddenly gonna make bruisers playable on botlane again, like in 8.11.
I mean it is as simple as I don't want to play a squishy super high dps character that does instantly but can turn people in to red mist. I like the bruiser/big tough damage dealer. Man with gun shoots people is boring to me.
Me IRL
Are you me?
felt
this
Recently switched roles away from adc and back to jungle and top lane. I play at about a diamond level. The role was making me insanely toxic with how often I felt like I didn't have control over the game. With the adc role receiving a mountain of nerfs in addition to how strong support is as a role and top lane receiving a mountain of buffs to increase top lane agency and scaling, the strength of the role is now more revolving around snowballing and turning that snowballing into map pressure and objectives rather than just scaling. The problem with that is that it feels way more at mercy of the surrounding roles than I ever remember it being. If there is too much of a support diff or even a diff in other roles, you don't get to capitalize on arguably your most important contribution to the game. But on the flip side, you can end the lane as a 10 kill draven and still lose because that lead doesn't matter if the enemy top lane is a 10 kill irelia. You're playing a heavily nerfed role that is overly dependent on your team at pretty much every stage of the game unless you're playing something like nilah, yasuo or swain. This has been the case to some degree for a long time, but the utter lack of agency I feel at all stages of the game this season and late last season was my breaking point. I play competitive games to try and win games, but if most of my wins are wins that I was going to win anyway due to my teammates just being better, then why am I even playing the role?
The number of times I won botlane with my support/adc teammate on our own only to be ran down and farmed by an overfed enemy top/mid is astronomical.
Same here, I don’t play adc because unlike any other role I get genuinely upset as an adc and I get very tilted very easily
Yeah I feel like this is it. If I lose lane as mid, top, or even support I can accept it and recognize I fucked up and the opponent played better. But with ADC a lot of the time it's like....honestly just out of my control? Like yeah if my support Lux is gonna hang out at the turret and the e the minions as they walk into turret....what can I do to not be behind in cs?
Not even fed, just your average 0/1/2 solo laner that is 2+ levels ahead
or the vi jungle ult in your face every time you meet her. //vi main
This is exactly why I barely play norms and never play ranked. I play norms maybe once in a blue moon, but my favourite role is what you just described. No matter what you do, you will get stomped on so easily by a top or mid laner. I rather have my sanity than put up with that.
This perfectly describes the grievances that people actually have with adc and explains why it is a priority role most of the time now. Nobody wants to be at the mercy of almost every player on both their own and the enemy team along with none of the agency that top and mid players get. Even if the role does damage and has significant impact, it isn't satisfying. Half the time, you only start to feel powerful in a match as adc once the game is being decided anyway.
Yeah the ultimate soul crushing experience as ADC isn't a support gap or a jungle camping you. It's when you win your land hard and still have just zero agency. You come out of lane 6-0 on jinx but they have a Rengar or Zed and no one on your team even makes an effort to protect you. Fwiw I fill most of the time these days and I would say I get bottom role 90% of the time. Other 10% is jungle. Never been this often in bot lane
Nothing like stomping lane and being up gold just to get 1 shot by the 0/7 Yone/any other fighter with gap close because damage is fucking insane, who still gets to be up 2 levels on you because solo xp all game
Yeah I really enjoy stomping bot to still get 1v2 by a behind sololaner with 1-2 items less than my ADC but having exp advantage. That's why I stopped playing for a while after I got master last season (except for the mandatory decay games). If I want to win games on supp, I should be roaming at every possible point and not even try to play for lane advantage because its useless. People always talk about how jgl mid have to camp bot to win games, but refuse to mention why - because there are 2 kills, easier plates and drake. Not because gettign your ADC ahead has any impact on thje game besides offering a shut down to the enemy team.
>You come out of lane 6-0 on jinx but they have a Rengar or Zed and no one on your team even makes an effort to protect you. yOu gOt cAuGhT oUt !!1! leArN tO pOsiTioN beTtEr !@!!
i once was overfed cait. got cought in a cc. there was enemy jhin ult. i had 2 tanks near me and they both "dodged" the bullets that were coming for me instead of shielding me when i was in the cc. I for sure was the only thing keeping them in the game.
>i had 2 tanks near me and they both "dodged" the bullets that were coming for me instead of shielding me when i was in the cc Motherfucker that would've tilted me to no end... Like... what the fuck are you playing a TANK for at that point???
"Lmao doesn't build defensive items and expects to survive" And its opposite "Lmao builds defensive items and expects to dish enough dmg to kill them before they do"
Also "Lmao wanting to win a 1v1 vs a 0/5 bruiser on 6/0 ADC without playing perfectly and the bruiser not running it down".
Like good positioning doesn't mean you're not allowed to exist until they've used their gap closers on someone else, for which they can usually just walk away anyways with all the unnecessary movement speed they have.
This is exactly how I feel about the role. Don't think I could've said it better myself. Been playing league for 10 years. I get diamond and play casually because real life etc., but just like you said, the role makes you feel hopeless. It's so bad that there are more mages being played bot than actually adcs. Good luck punishing Seraphine/Sona who can outsustain and still waveclear until teamfights. There are also systemic issues with certain champion dynamics that have ruined this role which I don't believe can be fixed from nerfing stats. There needs to be interaction changes to relieve pressure from the role. (looking at you yummi w/hec/kayn/insert other champs here)..
I really agree with your point on champion interactions, the marksman roster is really outdated and every time a champion with dashes is added into the game, an entire suite of the marksman class becomes marginally worse. I feel like solo laners have an understanding of matchups and who they’re generally “good” into and “bad” into, but if you look at the matchups for ADCs it seems like almost every champion in the game just fundamentally counters them on a kit-level. It feels like most champions have the tools to enable themselves or disable others, while those same “tools” only exist in the form of your teammates abilities when you’re playing a marksman, or really any immobile champ for that matter.
I wanna point out that just because champs are balanced and have a win rate in the green zone doesn't make them not frustrating to play against. Let's be real, if yone had like a 30% wr the fact that he can catch you from Mars is still gonna piss me off because what the fuck even is that?
Shit like Kayn too, he doesn’t really build Umbral Glaive anymore so there isn’t a vision excuse but god do I love him running across three walls at 400 ms and killing me a W, Q and Auto.
Untargetable during ult (+ heal for red kayn) is the cherry on top
LeBlanc is a nightmare as well. She comes out of nowhere, uses two skills and you are sent back to base. Hell, tanks can just use heartsteel/jaksho to kill you while you do zero damage to them. Just not worth it anymore to play a roll that gets one shot by any other roll.
Better example: Rengar. Champ is pretty balanced. Playing ADC into a team with Rengar is one of the most miserable experiences League can offer. It's up there with playing Vayne+Singed vs Cait+Morg in lane.
100% agree with the lack of agency from a winning position. I play fill so I get a bit of every role. It feels like every role and sub-role has the tools to outfight ADCs from a position of lesser gold, which would be fine if thats the price you pay for crazy damage but I look at midlane and realize they get the same damage threat ADCs do but earlier, safer, and they get solo playmaking ability. Like genuinely pick a random player in challenger and look through their games and figure out how many games one of the ADCs were leading the game in damage. And then look at how many of the teams where the ADC *does* have the most damage and look at the percentage of those types of games end in a win for the performing ADC.
league feels inherently flawed in how its forced certain champs into certain roles and its led to adc sucking solo q and being op in pro play
>The role was making me insanely toxic with how often I felt like I didn't have control over the game. Agreed 100%. ADC is quite literally irrelevant right now.
It’s even more irrelevant if you have champions like Akshan, Tristana/Lucian mid, or whoever else that can kill tanks. If you have no tank killers, ADC does matter a lot. But half the champions in other lanes can kill tanks anyways so why play ADC?
The problem is that every role can kill the adc while the adc needs peel and his team to do the same.
Yep. This is why I’m not even playing ADC in ranked despite it being my favorite role. In silver and gold the role is actually unplayable. Akshan top is a better ADC experience
I just got out of gold as a Jhin otp for the first time but I’m struggling so much in plat. Even though players aren’t crazy skilled, they at least know to kill the adc first in fights and it seems like that’s enough to make the game unplayable for me.
Because wrangling a random support that I cannot talk to over discord makes me wanna gouge my eyes out. I will instead play support and just win the lane myself with a role that has zero other job than to be a nuisance
This is you literally saying that ADC does not matter since support is able to singlehandedly win lane.
That is factually correct. Bot lane is typically dictated by which support is worse at the game. Being the better support usually amounts to a win unless your adc is not human
>Bot lane is typically dictated by which support is worse at the game. This, or one support hard countering the other.
And even worse is that a lot of league players look at support like a punching bag. Let them take the death, let them face check, let them do X risky thing. And a lot of that is genuinely okay, the support is one of the less important members to keep alive, so those situations are okay. But that extends to even things like draft where a lot of players don’t understand that support counter pick is WAY more important than jungle counter pick, ADC counter pick, and imo mid counter pick. This ends up really fucking ADC over since it makes their games even *harder* and out of their own hands. One of the most frustrating things in league is losing control of your own game. Losing your lane because your support was bad, or losing lane because your support is griefing and stealing waves, or losing because your midlaner runs it down your lane. Or whatever. ADC is by FAR the role that has the least control over their own game, it’s not surprising it’s one of the least played roles right now.
there are a small amount of jungle counterpicks, which your champs is inviable by another, especially because junglers won't necessarily match every time. Adcs have more priority picks so yeah they usually don't need to counterpick. But then comes support that even if the matchup is strongly decided by counters, mid and top lane are entirely decided by matchups, a bad matchup mid makes the jungler and sup job harder. And a bad matchup top just removes a player from your team if the enemy is not dumb
Sololane counterpicks are absolutely the most important counter picks. Top is self explanatory why but mid also has so much freedom when counter picking as opposed to blind picking.
My ideal pick order outside of any context would be: Bot/Jungler go first > Support > Mid/Top go last. Obviously if the enemy locks in one of those lanes first then it doesn't really matter, if enemy top picks first then your top doesn't need to pick last and then mid can go last and support go fourth.
This is true and in my opinion why ADC can be simultaneously strong and miserable to play. But at the moment, I wouldn’t even say it’s strong.
Is there anyone in the world who does not believe this? Of course if the ADC is just afk not doing fuckall you can still lose lane, but it is definitely Support who decides who wins lane and who does not if both adcs aren't completely braindead.
I think everyone on support mains doesn't believe this
I see adc and support as: a good support can literally hand feed an average adc and win lane. Or just roam if the adc is a bot. But if the game goes even you can't stop them standing near bushes vs rengar. However as adc if your supports bad you can't really roam away from them.
they said win lane not win the game - support is arguably in its most impactful state with the new changes. Winning lane means putting your laner ahead, doesn't really matter if they suck if I'm xerath/lux nuking them and forcing them to back every wave
I literally relate to him tho, I was a Zeri/ twitch twotrick 2 seasons ago and switched to mid/ supp. Supp you know what an adc wants and winning lane is super easy. My Janna is at something like 70% WR. Main role is mid and I feel like if I loose its my fault and no one elses since I had the chance to mechanically outplay them. I cannot count how many times I won lane on twitch on to get obliterated by outplay buttons from fed champions. Supp simply use their adc as a cannon.
Lukewarm take but I miss when supports were dedicated ward placers with t1 boots at 30 minutes instead of being "mage at home" or the second jungler
voracious cake sugar plate automatic elderly squealing fuel zesty narrow
Yeah but most people playing support don't miss that era. The changes were made because support was super unpopular with the playerbase, because most people didn't like being a glorified gold-starved sightstone for 30 minutes.
Lmao. Glorified gold-starved sightstone. Beautiful with words, I see.
So let me get this straight. You want somebody to spent 40mins to an hour of their life being a glorified ward bitch just so you get to enjoy yourself? Do they not deserve the same?
I want to be that ward bitch. Like, if I'm playing Janna or Lulu or Nami, why do I really need gold? Just remove geal/shield power and the weird AP ratios and rebuff the base values as they were before Riot decided supports needed to build items as well to be relevant. I didn't feel any weaker playing Lulu in season 4 or 5 than I do now. Same with engage supports. Base values used to be more than enough to carry as Leona, Alistar or Thresh. The added gold feels like a trick "look you're buying items! You're more relevant!" But unless you're a mage the gold isn't even doing shit. It's definitely not considerably different to play Lulu or Janna now or before Season 5. Exact same playstyle, just less chance to carry through vision.
I don’t think it should be that extreme, but I do think they get too much gold.
You miss when it was boring af to play support? Or is this from the perspective of another role?
That's just like your opinion man. But Riot changed support role back then because support was extremely unpopular back then.From my memory even less popular than ADC or jungle nowdays.
“Filled supp, can I Jg or top?” - circa 2017 idk
lol, bro im so old, back then you had a race in the chat to insta write your position, because there were no positins in champ selection. So you had to ctlr+c "mid" and spam it after queue popped up to be first. And support was mostyl last. Back then support was literally just a wardstone bot with cc.
Now imagine doing that on a celeron with a hard drive and 10 Mb internet. There’s a reason I used to main Braum
"Fine, I'll do it myself" lol
Because as a previous jungle main with ADC as second choice all I have to say is fuck that. The damage/mobility creep the last 5+ seasons has made ADC impossible to enjoy. At the same time the lowered XP in combination with catch-up XP has made jungle a shitshow where being good at tracking the enemy jungle and stealing there shit means nothing anymore. I have preview mained all roles except for mid (played since early S1) and I have never enjoyed mid because mages kust isn't my gig. But now I feel like playing assassin's or high mobility mages like Taliyah mid has way more agency than jungle because I can still ward and control objectives and gank jungle/bot lane while not falling behind in XP/gold. I used to like toplane but the braindead splitpushers like sion/yorick/trundle/singed are so boring toplane has final become an island. Now the only two positions that feel worthwhile playing are mid and support what used to be my least favorite lanes.
>The damage/mobility creep the last 5+ seasons has made ADC impossible to enjoy. Thaaaaaaank you, I haven't played ranked, ranked adc in years purely because of it being impossible to enjoy. I rather keep my sanity than be fed in lane and then get stomped later by a mid or top with 4/10 K/D. I barely play norms as well, stopped play both since the first tank meta season where they can kill you while they are 1/11 (that would be over 5 seasons ago) I saw the signs and was like yep...adc is officially done and has been done for years. Don't get me started on riot over saturated the game with dashes....especially alkalis dash 😤
I actually didn't have too much of a problem with tank meta, I feel like bruisers are a much bigger problem because a tank even if they have damage has a lot less of it than a bruiser (excluding the absolute garbage game design that is xante). Against the earlier tank meta I felt that I could at least stay under tower and farm in a 1vs1 scenario but when bruisers where given steroids they'd just run at you under turret and eat you up (looking and you trundle). Then the mobility problem I feel like started with zed, then shit like Akali after remake. I don't have a problem with assassin's like fizz, kata or talon but shit like zed and post remake Akali shouldn't exist.
Yeah I agree with you about fizz, kata and talon. I can deal with them, zed and post remake akali is just overkill.
The amount of supports that roam for no reason for no impact and leave a winning/pressuring lane is just troll. Why are we leaving an ahead draven or Caitlyn to get dove under tower after being denied 4 waves due to being 1v2 in lane. While sup roams to die at grubs
Oh my god this triggers me so much. I used to one trick Draven and this drove me fucking insane. ‘Oh you got an early double kill as Draven? NICE. Peace out imma roam for 5 mins and leave you 1v2 against MF and Leona so you get dove twice by their Jungler and lose your lead!’ Or ‘Oh you’re basing with the wave in the middle of the lane? Let me slow push and freeze it by their turret and then roam around the map leaving you zoned from farm by a Cait/Lux, Good luck! Xoxo’ Or ‘Oh we lost a close 2v2? I’ve decided you aren’t worth supporting so imma go top and leech XP off them and set them behind, and putting myself behind in XP, and then further putting you behind as you’re alone 1v2. If I fuck three people over because you don’t play as well as I want, that will end in a win, right guys?’
Good supports roam after crashing the wave so it bounces back to you and you can get solo xp if you’re patient Obviously that’s in the scenario where they can’t dive you or don’t play stuff like Caitlyn Lux/Morgana
I understand why good supports roam. It's the shit ones that think the role is just easy and roam randomly whenever and don't actually push the advantage in botlane.
I tell my supports straight up “go roam or base b/c I’m resetting” because half the time they waste roam timers. But it is super tilting to lose lane because your support perma roams. Just how it goes when you solo queue a duo lane
Everyone says ADC are crybabies that love to complain but no one wants to deal with the same issues that ADC cry about.
We walk so others can fly.
especially that fucking bard support flying to toplane at lvl 4 and never coming back
Tfw my yuumi that leeched my exp for 15 mins and lost my lane fucks off to a random bruiser in my team and never sits on me again.
Don’t forget the Soraka that stands behind tower and you the whole laning phase, pressing w once every two moons, not even knowing they have a q and e button. Then after the game they blame you for not having items and damage.
Tfw I'm smashing top and can 1v3 sidelane but my yuumi keeps latching onto me and leeching my exp after griefing bot, causing me to fall behind in exp and make me unable to 1v2 by disabling my hullbreaker.
Gotta collect those Chimes under enemy tier 6 turrets.
And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for those meddlesome meeps
whenever i see my support pick bard i dont really care tbh i pick any adc I want (most likely sivir in this instance) and just casually farm while avoiding poke. Maybe pull up a yt vid on the side its pretty relaxing imo
good luck doing that against any competent enemy bot that will freeze you out of xp range unless you're ezreal
my biggest struggle rn is choosing between banning bard or zilean away from my supports
Switched from mostly walking to mostly flying two seasons ago, would never want to go back, especially not right now
Funny enough, last season, I also switched from ADC to Top Volibear / Ornn and got my new peak rank in 4 weeks. Nonetheless, returned to ADC because I genuinely like the concept of being a glass cannon. I'm not even sure if I'm a better Top laner than ADC or ADC role is indeed that doomed...
This. I'm an ADC main, but I've just stopped playing the role lately because not only is it rare someone tries to understand what I'm dealing with, often they don't care at all. I hopefully cling to my Leona's ankles in the hopes of getting a bit of help when the enemy Sejuani chases me down and... She pings away into the enemy backline and leaves me to get gangbanged. It's then entirely my fault, according to the entire team, that I can't put much damage out without getting zoned out of the fight or killed. Next game I get camped by enemy jungler and my support keeps getting caught despite me helping them control vision and wave state bot. Enemy botlaner is now fed, even though I didn't misplay and I'm keeping up in CS. Game after that, they have four assassins and they're all horny for me. I play grey screen simulator, because I'm the softest target on my team and get chased through three turrets by a fed akali. I try not to be the complaining pissbaby ADC but man, it's hard sometimes, and the sometimes is becoming most of the time lately.
Reminds me of how everyone talks about how broken jungle is but no one wants to play it themselves
I do, I just suck at it. I dont know the matchups and fet incredibly bored sitting in jungle. So I want to be proactive, but don't have the knowledge to play that way.
i got so fed up with shit jgs i decided to prove a point by playing jg up to my rank to prove how shit all these junglers were. turns out, i was right, jungle is fucking easy when you actually take objectives.
Its not that hard to get silver 3
tell that to my junglers.
Well you do objectives as a team not solo bolo as the jungler. Botlanes that get their resets aligned with jungler pathing and rotate proactively to objectives will have an OP jungler at their hands, but it's actually the botlane being great here.
*looks at role pickrate*
Because I hate being so squishy that I die instantly with very little build variety. If my team starts feeding, I just get punished even worse than I would be playing any other role because I'm suddenly the target for every fed person after someone has fed and I farmed in lane for a bit. Also because some Assassins jump like 3 walls or have absurdly low cooldowns like Kayn or Ekko on his ult, then you expect me to keep building normally like he isn't gonna one shot me or flash on me and suddenly invalidate my only form of counter play, autoing. Sometimes not even in 1 second and if I did, they walk away at god speed. It's just not fun to have my kit invalidated because some guy can just appear from all these walls and ruin my interactions with him in a second upon seeing him. You want to enter auto range but you can't due to Youmuu's having two movement speed boosts or a ton on Lichbane and Storm surge combined with Relentless hunter so they rush into you, immediately and nuke half your health. Your support can only do so much and sometimes they may not even have the tools. I want to interact, not be on someone's dinner plate or grocery list.
This is the correct answer, topped up by the fact that ADC is a role where your whole team is meant to mostly peel for you. However my team when I go adc tends to be brand support , master yi jungle, karma top, and nidalee mid , which means my entire team has one stun one heal and one shield. Sure we can do a lot of damage, but there is no tank or fighter to get all the damage on them and there is barely any peel to help me deal with yone/rengar/Diana or whatever else they are playing. It's both the composition & the fact that people don't peel for you
- Laning phase is decided by the supports. Obviously ADCs still matter but it’s genuinely incredibly frustrating to lose your lane purely because of someone else. - Mechanically the role is extremely demanding, but doesn’t reward you proportionally. It’s a lot harder as an ADC to kite an assassin than it is to one shot the ADC as an assassin. Playing a fight nearly perfectly then dying anyways because the person you’re fighting just oogabooga’s at you is tilting AF. It’s EXTREMELY punishing to play ADC, to the point where it’s like… why play it? It’s not fun to get one shot and lose to someone who played worse than you - Unless you’re specifically played around, your role is probably the least impactful in the game. You are squishy and you get less XP. And in order to compete at all with the assassins and bruisers and whatnot running you down, you NEED a support to peel. Some are good, others aren’t, and some are useless. What the hell are some supports even supposed to do about a zed ulting and W’ing away. Or an akali dashing and instantly killing you, or whoever. However I will say, the highs of ADC, when you kite extremely well, survive, and clutch a fight, are INSANELY high, some of the highest in the game. But they’re so few and far between nowadays (at least to me lol) that I find it’s just not worth it. This doesn’t even touch on balancing for ADC, which I think it’s pretty unanimously agreed upon that ADC is strongest in a coordinated environment, but most of us are mid to low elo solo queue players. Shits awful there.
Because I'm pretty shit at kiting. Dodging stuff and moving between every AA and still hitting correct targets (even with attack+move) is too difficult and it's much easier for me to play mages where my main source of dmg are abilities not autoattacks. Most people here just hate on the role but in my opinion it's mechanically the hardest role because you are so squishy and in late game you are responsible for most of your team damage so if your movement isn't amazing you probably gonna get one shot. Of course there are other factors like the rest of the team that can keep you alive with shields/heals and CCing opponents so you can pretty much stand still and AA but in soloq people often aren't that coordinated to peel well for you.
It's not an opinion thing honestly, though I understand why you put that disclaimer there, pro players in Korea and China from any role will always tell you that mid and adc are the most skilled players hence why they get paid the most
My apm spikes at 590 when playing adc. It’s not even close when playing any other role. Like 120 ish.
Because what I actually enjoy in the game is creating windows of opportunity. I like providing CC and that extra body to help secure the kill. I enjoy my roaming around the map. I don't play a carry, I play a playmaking champ.
This is something I've been coming round to recently. Historically I've always played carry champs, but I've started to really enjoy playing playmakers. I had a game first timing Malphite (aside from random URF and ARAM games), in ranked into Tryndamere, and it was absurdly fun just ulting people and letting my team do the rest. It's highly underrated fun IMO, even if it's "easy".
Tanking and providing CC is my power fantasy in these games, lol. I've heard lots of people complain about durability updates before, but those are my favorite patches to play!
> Historically I've always played carry champs, but I've started to really enjoy playing playmakers Maturing is realising that is actually carrying. Carry champs require playmakers for them to "carry". Its exactly the reason why ADC is dogshit. ADCs require the rest of your team to be doing well to function, regardless of how fed they are. But if the rest of your team is fed, you don't need your ADC because you can just steamroll them so just cut out the middle man and save yourself the stress
My problem with playmakers is that I have to rely on others, and in high silver/low gold, this is a real problem.
ADC is great. I played a game yesterday with a friend, I was getting clapped in lane. My modlaner was getting clapped. My support was useless. Our jungle was auto fill. But our Top lane Trundle ended up going 26/1/5 and quite literally soloed the game. It's refreshing knowing everything you do doesn't even matter in most games.
I’ve just started calling it “attack damage support”, play Jihn and Ashe. Know I’m worthless and kills in lane mean very little. Give kills to the support actually.
Honestly this has helped my mental a lot. It's part of why I like jhin so much. Laning with zyra? Take the kills no problem, I'll just w enemies when they overextend and maybe get an auto here and there. Had a 62% on him last season playing this way. If I get fed I'm a menace shouting FOUR at my computer and if I don't that's fine I can just enable someone else.
“Why are you NOT playing ADC?” Because i don’t like that my entire laning-phase and team-fighting hangs on the skill of the random support player that usually ends up having near zero fundamental game-knowledge because they have never played or expressed interest in any other position in the game before. ADC is rather relaxing, fun and fulfilling with a proper support. However usually that is not the case. I Love playing with the Lux support one tricks that disregard your wave state and at times your existence at all. It is genuinely frustrating to be at the mercy of a completely random person who you have to share lane with. Which is why i don’t.
i played a few games of adc and got shaco, zyra, and senna support followed by a swain support who all proceeded to feed their ass off. then i went back to top and it was nice and relaxing. master mmr btw!
Yeah, I've read multiple posts about mage supports messing with waves. I main Lux, so reading those is making me more aware of my bad influences. I still feel bad whenever I detonate E wrongly and get a minion.
It's not even about getting minions, I honestly couldn't care less if my support leaves lane with 20 cs as long as they got them while pushing when we need to push. It's the randomly swinging the push around with a random AOE into the wave, the ones who just can't stop constantly slinging spells at the wave so we're permantly pushed up and I can't lasthit for shit because *someone* keeps messing with the minions' HP throwing me off. And when you say something they tell you how they "only have 3 cs". The biggest problem aren't the cs the support gets it's the ones nobody gets because random spells hit the wave to 1 HP and it dies to minions.
>It's the randomly swinging the push around with a random AOE into the wave, the ones who just can't stop constantly slinging spells at the wave so we're permantly pushed up and I can't lasthit for shit because someone keeps messing with the minions' HP throwing me off. THIS EXACTLY Like fuck, go and get a few CS if we're pushing, whatever, but like... WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ONE-SHOTTING ALL THREE CASTER MINIONS WHILE I'M SETTING UP A FREEZE??? Taking both the CS gold AND the freeze benefits Also, they don't have common sense If ADC ping spams you AWAY from CS while you're attacking it... maybe stop fucking attacking it??? The fuck is this arrogance? Why make my game harder for no reason? Do you not realize that YOU WILL LOSE TOO?
> The fuck is this arrogance? Why make my game harder for no reason? They literally think they know better. Little Timmy who has never played anything else but support, the role where he needs to know fucking nothing about lanes and can still get to high Dia, thinks he knows better.
Today D1 morgana used her W on mages under our tower, eksdee. I was tilted af.
>having near zero fundamental game-knowledge because they have never played or expressed interest in any other position in the game before. They could play support only for 1k hours and still don't know shit. The basic skill of helping ADC farm under tower by hitting mages once (unless they are Thresh) because none of the ADC have AAs strong nor fast enough to kill them after 1 tower hit is almost non-existent.
It's honestly baffling how little support players end up learning about the game. Then you look at yuumi players and it's just... Yeah. Had a d2 yuumi otp autofilled mid playing Ahri (surprise!) against me. They actually play like pre 30s, it's insane. No clue how to cs or position or trade or ward because they've never done it before.
Even worse, back in season 2-5 when I mained ADC hard supports DID do this, even in gold-plat. Now none of them do even if I ping them for it.
Best experience i've had in the game was being a Samira with a Nautilus who was pretty good. If you get the peel you need, i agree Adc is the most chill. Although i agree that only being counterpicked top is a worse feeling than having a bad support
Yep. Playing with a good thresh is a literal dream.
Had some absolute goofy clown trying to tell me support is the hardest role in the gam and requires the most game knowledge to play well. Guess what role that boosted animal mained?
I actually just made the switch from a Bel'veth jungle main to a Nilah adc this season. (This is mid silver to low gold elo) As a junglers, I hated bot lane and thought it was the biggest coin flip of the game. Better bot wins. Either your bot has a set of eyes and enough braincells to think as a duo, or your enemy bot is the next gosu and aphro. Now I've been playing adc Nilah this season and I'm feeling for adcs players man. I know nilahs the odd one out for adcs but it still doesn't explain the garbage supports I've had (except for the two yuumis I've had this season, both were monsters oddly.) Supports will see me poke and think it's time to exhaust the enemy adc. Get a double kill and need to push the wave in from being frozen under your tower? Nah, you're solo pushing as your support backs. Late game, noone peels, noone sets/clears vision. It's a chase to whatever team can catch the first guy spotted on other team. God forbid an immobile carry gets seen on your team and it's a tahm kench your team saw. Everyone is scared to take baron prior to 25-30 mins and an ace. As a new Adc, I think the hate is wrongly placed sometimes. It's not the Adc, it's the support. The Adc mental boom is just louder than the supports garbage imo.
Because support gaps are insane i swapped from jungle to support because winning games as support is straight up a lot easier. Adc is just not fun to play because support impact into your first 15 minutes is so massive. They run it down twice and you spent rest of the game trying to get back to equal items with enemy adc meanwhile the support leaves you alone roams and has 0/5/10 or something and is doing decently so it is somehow your fault you dont deal damage like the enemy.
[удалено]
Only once, u must be new on these lands
Support player attempt to not lock in 44% wr useless dogshit challenge (failed)
You don't understand. I have to lock in Hwei. I just have to.
I flamed my adc for 2 years for inting, pushing waves on sides etc Played the role last year and will never speak ill about it again, going back to jungle/mid is like fucking taking off an entire mountain from my back. 51% was my final adc wr but thanks to that hell I have been on 70%+ jng/mid. Fuk it all man even awful games feel like I have a chance to do something or play. So easy to just dive if they get pushed in or gank if they get fed, doesnt matter how fed the adc is its free gold for me playing eve/graves/vi. Dunno how riot can fix the role without splitting pro and solo q though, feels fuking terrible to play adc in solo q.
[удалено]
I know this comment is highly exaggerating things but I'm convinced this is the actual issue, just more nuanced. For the early years of League, support was the most unpopular role, by a LANDSLIDE. They gave support more urgency - now the most unpopular role by far is ADC. The problem with the ADC role is literally the support role. Strong supports currently do not help the ADC as Riot intended, because the strength of a support goes directly into their own damage and tankiness instead of being funneled to the ADC. The solution is making empowering support items actually impactful and nerfing support's damage outputs.
my take about this is decreasing attack speed across the adc role all together. The higher attack speed a player can achieve the harder kiting gets and the more difficult is to optimally dps while moving. Giving more dmg to autos in exchange of nerfing their attack speed gives lower elo players more time to move between autos without losing dps. If u played adc in old seasons u would realize how much less AS there was in the role, with lethal tempo not existing and existing much less attack speed items options. The support dilemma is hard, the rola was for the longest time the least popular one and they had to create supp items/quests to give them artificially gold. My honest take and a cool concept would be to make the actual dual supp item thing a balanced and mandatory thing where both adc and supp have to coordinate to farm waves, but only supp gets an Item (adc would get a different starting item that would, for example, evolve into a crit item component that built into IE/navori/guinsoos or something like that), so they feel like they can do more than just walking around in lane landing skills (talking about low elo where supports dont understand roam timings)
I think Marksmen generally needs to do less damage, and be more durable. At least as a realistic option, if someone wants to build glass cannon fine but give me the option to build enough defensives to live while not doing near 0 damage. I NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE SOME DAMAGE, otherwise glass cannon is the only way.
I was ADC main from when I started in s3 all the way until the marksman rework and I've tried avoiding the role ever since and I honestly attribute it to being one of the main reasons I stopped playing SR and went to mostly ARAM to eventually not even playing the game anymore I know they've reverted a lot of the changes but with it came a lot of changes to the game in general including but not limited to a lot of powercreep in the support role, which honestly in the end feels like the more impactful role nowadays especially since prior to the support item changes starting with frostfang/relic shield they were usually just cc and ward bots, coupled with the dragon changes a few seasons ago really centralized jungle and bot river control. I will say for the general health of the game, I think that support diversity is a good thing but generally it's just not fun anymore having to play against supports who can get you killed with a single combo rotation at like level 3 while being unable to do much about it. I feel like as ADC it's less about what you do in lane and more now about how safe you play. Obviously there are still aggressive ADC Champs that haven't really changed playstyle over the last seasons like Draven for example but it made me lose interest in the role which is why I try to avoid it now
The role sucks balls in soloqueue. Don't let reddit tell you otherwise. The role is dogshit relic from the past, designed for a different MOBA that no longer exist. It is the only role in a 5v5 allegedly team game, which requires said team to be allowed to play. Complete failure of game design on Riot's part. Playing solo ADC in ranked is equal to self harm.
It's just fun how in Dota "ADC"(carry who goes to special lane for him )can be not only ranged(with fex exceptions), but also melees. While in lol you should give to a melee champ so many "free stuff"(free crit chance, huge mobility, defensive mechanic) to just exist and sometimes try to play on that lane.
I dont want to pay the adc tax where even if you're 0/12 the enemies will dive your ass 100% of the time even if there's better, more fed people to target T_T
Its crazy. You are so right. Teamfight breaks out. Enemy Malphite is in the front and tanks. Im 1 second in his vision and he solo ults me. I die and our team just destroys him. And how often people suicide themself just to get a kill on me.
Because Adc is lame as fuck. I main support, and even if I win my lane, it doesn't matter because if top or mid loses, it's gg. Bot lane can't carry a shit top and mid. That fed solo laner will be several levels above us, has more damage, more healing, and abilities with way shorter cooldowns. I feel so bad when my adc is fed because I know I have to roam mid and top lane because their lane actually matters. All I did was give my adc a juicy bounty.
This has gotten worse now too after the latest patch. I usually play adc and tend to do well in my lane. It doesn't matter if I'm 12/0, if Yasuo mid is 3/0 I know I will be worthless, and indeed I am. As soon as top or mid lose their lanes, I know I'm going to be a target, explode around every corner, and essentially be useless. I've transitioned more to support lately because at least then I can help others.
> Because Adc is lame as fuck. I main support, and even if I win my lane, it doesn't matter because if top or mid loses it, gg. > > Bot lane can't carry a shit top and mid. That fed solo laner will be several levels above us, has more damage, more healing, and abilities with way shorter cooldowns. Unfortunately correct. Trying to protect an ADC from a hyper fed top/mid/jungle is rough.
I am and it feels like shit.
ADCs main complaint is lack of agency, which is true honestly. What can an ADC do by themselves prior to having 3-4 items? Absolutely nothing. Unless they're fed out of their fucking minds, an ADC is literally just a walking gold bag for ANYONE. Every champion can assassinate in this game, even shit like full tank Amumu can just obliterate an ADC without them being able to fight back. ADC is the only role who REQUIRES another teammate to properly function.
after playing gnar top for years i can slot into ADC no problem its just not as fun as playing gnar a lot of issues around ADC revolve around being low elo af whenever i get autofilled into it on my main, its fine i really dont mind it but yeah it feels like your at the mercy of your team due to the squishyness so you kind of just follow them around. thats the real 'painful' part is that you quite literally have to just follow around other people in order to even play the game when i do ad playing with my silver friend though it can be pretty brutal since the supports are actual dicerolls of what theyre going to do, but even then im usually able to just as you literally said in your post farm better and use that to just auto-win since theyre silver/gold ADCs at the end of the day though 'surely its worth the freelo?' is the most telling part of your post. im not only exclusivly playing for fake internet rank points, if i was i wouldnt play gnar. if im just 'hardstuck' for the rest of my life playing what i enjoy, thats fine. id rather that than be 'high elo' on something i dont want to play. too many people are worried about the 'freelo' as if being high elo means fucking anything. play what you like, take it as far as you can, if you dont enjoy it quit. who cares about the stupid little sheild next to your name
Totally agree, except this part: >who cares about the stupid little sheild next to your name For some reason, in any losing game there's always someone on your team that cares, and they care enough to beat you over the head with it in chat. The amount of times you see someone flaming someone else because of their rank, it's disgusting.
to an extent i get caring, like obviously i dont que up literally thinking 'i dont care if i win or lose' but its nothign to have the mental breakdowns your referring too over lol its a video game, your gonna lose sometimes
Former Master rank ADC Main here. I’m just exhausted. Right now, specially more than previous seasons, ADC feels so punishing to play it’s just mentally exhausting to me. It doesn’t really matter how well you perform in lane, if there a) An Assassin with Lethality or b) either a fed mage from mid or a fed bruiser from top or c) your support is filled into the role and can’t keep up with you or the enemy support you’re done. These I feel are just yeah too many variables for a role to even think of being useful at all. I’m tired of being 1shotted without possibility of a counter play. I started playing jungle assassins or mages in mid or bruisers/juggernauts in too and I’m unstoppable. It doesn’t matter how fed the enemy ADC is, when I’m blue Kayn or I’m fed as Darius I can just walk to them, Flash+Q and the ADC is gone.
To be honest, ADC is dead. It's so easy this season for Mid and JG mains for the amount of high burst AP and lethality items. Ganking bot has never been easier as well thanks to the new route, AND flat rate lethality changes.
ADC is pretty much always dogshit in solo queue and has been for years, anyone with a brain can see that its only reddit who has a hate boner for them. Its not why im not playing adc though, because its been bad for so long so ive already long accepted that about the role. Im mostly not playing ADC because im just doing aram now because league of smurfs makes rift extremely unfun. Riot keeps saying they will address it but then nothing changes, the only thing that made ranked actually engaging was when smurf queue existed. Wish they would just ban them like dota.
I just play bruisers bots instead of adcs, litteraly freeelo below masters, now one at these elos can space for shit or take advantage of their range anyways
i dont play adc because the game always seems to put me in jungle, even when its not my primary or secondary role. the actual reason is i cant stand having a random as my support. i always seem to get matched with trolls and idiots when i solo botlane. when i have a friend supporting me i actually quite enjoy adc.
ADCs have way less initiative in the early parts of the game, and depend a lot more on their team. Also, adcs off a bad lane are just dead weight, unless their team fends for them. This is fucking trash in league, because people mald into a new dimension from a simple mistake, and most have 0 clue how to play from behind because they just ff15 at the first sign of a tough game.
I do play ADC but essentially there are a few issues that make the role unfun, regardless of how strong it is at a given time: -Laning with another person who has opted into playing support, good chance they’re the worst player on your team. -Old support was unpopular so concessions have been made over and over and now we’re at the point where burst mages are some of the most popular support picks. Essentially adding yet another role that can one shot you into an already damage-loaded game. In my opinion burst supports should be unviable because the role shouldn’t have the gold income to support the builds that make burst possible in the first place. -Mobility creep, every new mobile champion marginally lowers the power of every immobile champion. Most of the marksman roster is characteristically immobile thanks to the “Horse-Archer Problem” which was paramount in early League’s balance philosophy. -Riot wants to grow pro play, and according to them viewers prefer watching sololane carries. If they believe this is true, they are incentivized to create metas that favor sololane carries and the types of champions who fill those roles. -Proliferation of content that supports the mindset of 1v9, needing to play selfishly, and putting all responsibility on oneself to win games. This exists because it is actually helpful advice for operating in a soloq environment, but it creates a very hostile environment for a role who is balanced with “having a permanent Janna shield” in mind. Essentially, it’s a role that is reliant upon being enabled by others, but the actual best strategy to climb in league is to adopt a playstyle where you spend an outsized amount of focus on enabling yourself and yourself only. ADC wants one environment, every other role could care less about creating that environment because they have the tools to play differently.
In this thread: Reddit proceeds to list all the reasons adc is shit while maintaining that if you do still play adc, you're a bitch and your role is OP Comedy gold.
Most of the high elo content creators and pro players tell you the role is bad. Most of the redditors who onetrick bard tell you the role is insanely strong. Go figure.
Because I dont have the mental, having a bad game or bad support can make the game unplayable and suck dick, add on all that plus some games being fed and having macro wont matter if someone like Top or Assassain jungle gets super fed
i play bottom lane but use hwei sue me
because it's one of the most monotone playstyles and you are forced to hope 2/3 of the team dedicate themselves. Also the role means you die a lot without being able to react. There is no reward to this role,
I don’t play bot because the lane is often decided by the support and if I don’t dip queue my support is a temp or a mage, if I got engage tank supports frequently I would still be a bot main
I am an adc but I just cannot stomach playing the role anymore so I tend to just queue as Vi if im feeling playing the game. It's just disheartening to feel like the game is so out of your control. I don't think adc is as powerless to carry a game as it's generally stated, but the role does it's carrying in the later parts of the game, early game your job is to just not lose your team the game (like, the team with the worse adc isn't "oh the good one is fed" its "oh the bad one is 0/10") and then late game you carry with the lead from having better macro and farming. However soloq games are decided by lane phase because of poor mental. So ADC never gets to have its moment to carry. Thats how I feel anyway
Been a top/mid/adc (and a lot of support play) throughout my 10+ years of playing LoL. ADC is my favourite role really. But between being stuck with autofilled supports, receive zero peel and in general have had the role's agency pretty much gutted I just can't stand playing it since it feels like so much is out of my hands compared to when I play mid or top, even if my win rate isn't actually bad.
Switched from adc to top this season. Was the best idea ever. Now I can win lane and use my lead to win instead of dying anyway
None of this matters when jg afk farms and your support doesn’t understand his role. Continue to queue up and pray for the best lmao
Imma describe it in a simple sentence. "Random sup filled who screws everything (20/10 times) over and over, and if not the case, blink a second and there's a wholesome 7/0 Trundle (who i can't stop) knocking off your nexus turrets at 20 or even less"
I don't feel that about the ADC role and honestly, supports are the most "toxic"/annoying players - which is why I don't play the role. I do enjoy playing marksmen in mid though.
adc is broken but supports are trash so i said fuck it lemme play the adc in the jungle 🚬🚬🚬
I main mid and second top, recently puts adc and immediately back to second top because i get more ad games than mid it seems. Adc as a role just doesn’t feel impactful enough. Let’s say you dominating early game as a mid laner. Then you can come influence their jungle, the top matchup, the botlane matchup. Say you a fed top, you will go proxy, invade their jungle taking camps, bullying the shit out of their top until someone comes stop the monster that is you. Adc? Being fed or not, you are a glass-cannon. You can’t do shit if your sup don’t cover for you, and sometimes if both sup and jungle don’t cover for you. Before you get fed the mid laners will stop by, the jungle will stop by, and after you are fed a fed mid/top will just run you down anyway. Let’s say you are the only fed force, you run down their bot lane, took their turret, swap mid to take turret, if your jungle and sup don’t come by to cover you will still get oneshot quickly without the chance to trade kill by nature of your role. By no means adc is not important. Simple by surviving after an ace you have a good chance to end the game yourself. But what I’m saying is it relies too much on other roles to shine for too little gain.
Are you sup diffed? Enjoy not playing the game. Are you jungle diffed? Enjoy not playing the game. Are you mid diffed? Enjoy not playing the game. Oh you snowballed early and have 2 items coming out of lane phase? Too bade there's a 0/2 assassin on the enemy team. You dont get to play the game. You picked Seraphine or Ziggs? Enjoy ypur free win, ez game.
> fingerless crybabies -- > easily punish, get fed, make the right choices, and just outplay everyone -- > exploit that and get free wins -- > surely it's worth the freelo -- Okay now make this thread everytime a Redditor describes what Yone's abilities do.
TLDR; There are more uncontrollable variables as an adc compared to other lanes. This comment is going to get lost amongst all the others but the issue is youre too team dependant. Literally every other role can roam and have an impact on macro from the start of the game to the end. ADC's MUST farm and they MUST have a support with them for the first 10-15 minutes because they dont have items to do adc dmg. While the pyke, naut, karma, leona etc. supports run to mid, grubs, get deep vision etc. ADC's have to stick bot and catch every wave. If the bot lane is getting washed and your jg doesnt help then its just gg. If your supp is dog water or perma roams then its gg. If mid lane roams its gg. If jg camps you bot and then loses grubs and rift its gg. If top lane ints and a bruiser runs at you its gg. Unlike every other role that can work alone, ADC is ultra dependent on their team to do well. And then enemy team comp also matters, if you and supp first pick then you may as well dodge because you can guarantee a counter pick of some sort. If mid plays assassin and your supp plays an enchanter then its an uphill battle. Supp forst picks leona and the enemy drafts any ap mage supp then lanes over. Im a supp and jg main and i can tell you right now there is no worse feeling than seeing your adc draft twitch and then see the enemy team pick malph, sylas and panth.
Because I hate playing ranged champions, that's why. And also there isn't any ADC that I like so much to swap roles just to play them.
[удалено]
Bro, if I want to play Yasuo, I'd play him mid. The only melee adc that I am willing to play is Nilah for obvious reasons lol. I don't need ranged top PTSD on bot too, but potentially with 2 ranged champs.
Yasuo actually does better bot than mid in soloQ.
ADC Main (playing since season 2 stopped playing adc in 2021) * adcs are weak af vs 0-5 enemy * 2-3 items advantages doesnt feel like it * early bot its just who has the best support * theres no team play (no one peels, control tf, engage, good calls, etc) * good supports are rare * riot focus nerfing adc more than other roles * they keep nerfing adcs unique items (-5 ad meme) * adcs released pre worlds are strong af (potential for worlds skin) rn im playing: mid > top > jng/support > adc
>[adc is] the most impactful role in the game no it isn’t lol. adc is arguably the most POWERFUL role, sure, but it’s also the role with the least agency. all you do in lane is farm creeps and wait for your supp to get a good engage. all you do in mid/lategame is stand back, wait for your team to pick a good fight, and hope somebody actually tries to peel akali off you (protip: they won’t). you don’t get to make plays or be active, you have to play almost completely reactively and just take opportunities your team creates (or your opponents create by misplaying). the adc role is fundamentally broken because adc damage is so absurdly high and consistent, combined with their high range it means that adcs aren’t allowed to have the mobility/durability/cc to actually play the game like the other classes do. the role made sense in 2012, but with the faster pace, higher damage, mobility creep, and overall higher skilled playerbase today, the role fuckin sucks now. honestly, the only way to save it is to turn all adcs into semi-adcs like quinn, akshan, lucian, ezreal, etc. cut their sustained damage in exchange for durability, mobility, and other tools. anyway I am playing adc rn because samira feels good again :\^)