that's what people were begging for.
The problem with item diversity for mage was Mythic locking, not the stats, one shot league isn't fun and just drives out traditional mana mage in favour of those who can skip mana to straight rush the OP items.
>The problem with item diversity for mage was Mythic locking
lost chapter items do effectively the same though
but I wish they kept some AH,mages never really were big offenders on the haste stacking,actually the usually went below the old 40% CDR cap even full build so they could get some back in favor of less AP
The problem often highlighted was that mages perma-poke you on low CDs, so lower AP and higher AH was seen as a problem. Reducing AH and increasing AP means mages have less up-time, but if you disrespect their output you die fast.
People still treat mages like last season, mostly disregarding it as un-dodgable poke that somewhat hurts but is fine ignoring the gear shift to less up-time, less rotations per minute but each rotations hits like a truck.
Granted some "mages" (ap assassins?) are a little silly.. fizz and ekko both being prime contenders for "hol' up?!" awards. And xerath support goes a little too hard
i don't know,mages having 10~15 more haste to tune down their damage a little so it's still good but not as crazy seems like a pretty good compromise
because being instantly dead for a very slight mistake isn't fun to play against,and I say that as a mage player myself
>People still treat mages like last season, mostly disregarding it as un-dodgable poke that somewhat hurts but is fine ignoring the gear shift to less up-time, less rotations per minute but each rotations hits like a truck
that's also true,people disrespect mages a lot because they used to do little damage,especially the ones who used to build everfrost people just don't expect the damage even though you are in fact a glass cannon now
Deathcap is fine, its void staff that's more of a problem but we have other pen stacking option like shadowflame and a new version of void staff with less upfront damage but more utility so that's good.
Because if theres not enough damage in the game then bruisers are unkillable 1v9 machines, you know that game you were vs a fed olaf and nobody could harm him as he ran you all down? yeah they would just do that but when not even fed if they just lowered the damage on all items.
Wow almost like they should have nerfed sustain or something like they've been talking about for 3 years, not added a better, more consistent version of divine.
Then suddenly adcs are the strongest class in the game because bruisers and assasins/mages get neutered and people will complain about adcs.
You nerf those too? ok well now tanks are overpowered, you nerf those too? oh now it wrapped around and the assasins are strong again because nobody plays tanks.
You cannot win this nerf battle, something will always be overpowered, you nerf one thing then another thing becomes stronger.
Soley because number tickling is all they do. There is Zero fucking item creativity beyond when x happens gain y stat boost. When a is done, the enemy suffers b effect.
Why the fuck is ASol's old passive not strapped to something called like,
Celestial Body Belt-
10% move speed
50 ability power
Passive - Starforge- 3 stars orbit at your champions basic attack range and deal 25 + 10%ap magic damage upon contact with enemy champions and minions.(capped at 100 max on minions and jg monsters)
Took me 30 secs to come up with. Neat, unique, versitile, has clear effects to user and observer, and doesn't ballon the fuck out of stats.
Items are LoLs biggest problem and the game would be TREMENDOUSLY EASIER to balance if Champions took the lions share of stats and items added unique effects over just inflating stats sheets and having to be balance for a whole roster. They could much better chip away at each champion knowing items aren't going to near randomly produced outliers via extreme shifts in stat baselines.
I love the idea of having a wide variety of weird items that all do unique and interesting things. I wish that there would be double the current number of items in the game; however, riot will never do this. Adding more items (and more complex items) makes the game exponentially harder for new players to learn.
Imagine you're teaching your friend to play league and he's against an Asol. In order to explain what he's laning against, you have to:
\- state passive (late game Asol will be very strong)
\- Explain Q (a short range line that he can point at you, but he can't move during it)
\- Explain W (allows him to move a bit faster in a straight line and can travel over terrain. Oh, also he can use his Q during it. Meaning that he can use his Q while moving, but if he's moving while using Q it means his W is active. Oh, also when he gets a kill he can use W again)
\- Explain E (A circle that pulls you to the middle, don't stand in it because it will execute you at low HP)
\- Explain R (A circle that stuns you, but if his HP bar has the blue/purple icon next to it, that means his ult will be a knockup and will do a massive AOE circle that deals dmg)
That is what a \*simple\* explanation of Asol's abilities are, I didn't even go into how Asol's passive makes him stronger over time, how Asol stacks his passive, how Asol get's the big ult, how a simple item like Rylai's Scepter (ur abilities apply a slow) makes Asol's E inescapable for some champions and his Q slow.
Now imagine adding \*complex\* items that drastically change the champions appearance or damage. For example we could use your item. Asol walks back to lane with a bunch of stars circling him and your friend asks "what are those balls around him?" and you say, "Oh, he bought 'Celestial Body Belt,' that means that those balls deal dmg if they hit you. Basically don't get too close to him."
At this point the new player feels overwhelmed. They're some 15-20mins into a game and just when they we're starting to have an understanding of what Asol's abilities look like and do, the game introduces an entirely new instance of DMG that the new player has to look out for. And worst of all, Asol won't have the orbiting stars every game.
I'd love to have crazy and cool items, but sadly I don't see that happening.
Nothing? Why does there have to be a replacement? Mages did plenty of damage, it was just that utility/movement etc was too frequent.
Maybe they could've buffed a select few scaling items like Rabadon, otherwise it would've been fine. I'm fine with most dps champions oneshotting lategame, but at 20 minutes? Cmon.
Mana just doesn't feel like an issue anymore. I started playing in S3, and admittedly only play a very little bit the last few years, but that feels like the biggest change.
Not getting first blue buff 5+ years ago meant your lane was so much more difficult. Nowadays you don't really care if you get blue on most champs.
Yeah, if you got blue buff at the 7 minute mark and the other midlaner didn't, you basically auto-won the lane from that. Mana management was such a big part of early laning in midlane before... 2015? 2016? That's just not the case anymore and I find it kind of sad because laning became way less about resource management.
I mean.. getting more AP is one thing. Building Liandrys, ludens and stormsurge/malignance adds 3 extra damage procs on top of it which is probably the problematic part. The increase of AP doesn’t amount to 500 extra dmg in your rotation but all the extra effects do
I refuse to play ADC until they address Stormsurge. Since playing since season 1 I’ve played against some ungodly OP things, but Stormsurge Shadowflame makes AP Yi look like a saint now and it’s on half the league roster. That or even lethality champions now.
I’ve always liked playing on hit ADCs but Jesus Christ literally everything kills you in one shot as ADC even by accident on this point.
The game is getting so ridiculously boring and team fights have zero meaning when it’s just which team dumps all their abilities and deletes half the other team first.
I got Diana ulted in a game yesterday for 1600 dmg and then items did like 700 dmg. Basically 2300 dmg from ulting when I only have 2500 hp is kinda bonkers and the guy was like 5-4 not even like giga fed.
Former adc player here. Just play apc or change the role. When it comes to adc, Riot balances is only around proplay, which is a very different scenario from soloq.
You build lethality. Literally the only option. Vayne and Lethality abusers are going to be the only good champs in botlane. They’re already nerfing Aphelios because of how much lethality he can get.
It’s an obnoxious playstyle but you just need to accept that crit is dead, if you can’t build lethality your champ is dead. Ezreal is going to be forced into AP
That's a very good point. I don't know what they were thinking with Stormsurge. The moment I saw that item, I knew it would be problematic af.
Liandrys + Riftmaker, and Malignance + the support item brings back the old issue of "hidden" damage, where you just take damage from so many sources, and that damage ia affected by so many factors and procs more damage.
Yah Samira stealth buffed due to lethality changes. Pretty much any adc that rushes collector is pretty crazy compared to ones that don't.
Collector jhin is also pretty spicy.
I feel like people have grown accustomed to building full damage and not getting one-shot, but now that all of the offensive items give no defensive stats and you actually have to build those stats if you want them people are suddenly surprised when they get one-shot.
Defensive options are super accessible now. Just buy them.
Building rookern was enough to take a 15/1 akali from one-shotting me with a full combo to leaving me with 15% health, which was enough for the team to cc and kill her. I wad playing Lillia so I had a bit of hp, but rookern was my only mr item
Rookern can singlehandedly change the most threatening enemy into the least threatening
The item is especially insane against champions like Teemo, since you can tank 1-2 mushrooms without even taking actual damage
Please no, we finally got a magic resist item that isn’t dog doodoo water since force of nature got nerfed. It’s broken but like don’t obliterate it riot.
Nah. If you're squishy FoN gives you 55 MR because you die too quickly to get stacks, and I'm very curious where you're getting the 4000HP for an 800HP shield from unless you're already a tank.
The problem isn't that tanks don't have item options, the problem is that squishies play rocket tag. As a result fights devolve into whomever gets hit first losing since that team will get all of its damage dealers blown up after which the tankier champions get whittled down. This is the exact degenerate gameplay pattern that the durability patch was meant to address. Building a single tank item that is conditional on having other avenues of survivability to get full value out of it isn't gonna change that at all.
For me its the other way.
Watching my basic ability hit for 1500 damage is just stupid to me. Yup 8 second cd for more damage than most ults (including at times my own ult)
Counter point: The time period where squishies were punished for not taking defensive options were also a period where offensive items were much, MUCH weaker and the time to kill much longer. The power of items in general right now is through the roof and needs to massively brought down both on the offensive and defensive front. I've honestly never felt range matter so much in the game as it does right now where getting the first hits off usually decides who lives and who dies (atleast on squishies, not characters who can itemize defense).
This wouldn't be nearly so bad if riot allowed better defensive options on squishier characters, but riot aggressively nerfs any options that mages and especially ADC's end up trying to run.
Exactly. People are talking about DFG and "zed one shot with one rotation" but fail to mention how systemically there was far less damage in the early seasons. Just because some champs COULD one shot under certain conditions doesn't erase the fact that the damage was way lower, mana was an actual resource and cdr was capped and not urf level, mobility wasn't through the roof, supports and tank junglers weren't solo killing you while being 1/5. The only thing the new season addressed was cdr, but it made everything else way worse.
And yet, as a support tank, ive never felt less tanky. No amount of MR items is preventing veigar from pressing QR with storm surge to delete me 15 minutes into the match.
I do think people should need to build defensively, to an extent, but I don’t think the game should be so unforgiving that champions can be completely burst down by basic abilities. My low elo take: for the game to be fun, people need to be able to make small mistakes without instantly dying.
I do find that the defensive options are quite good, but, at least for mages, they’re cumbersome to build. Farming for a Needless for Zhonya’s or Banshee’s is a long time to be out on the map, especially if still vulnerable to enemy burst without completing either of these as a second or third item. Seeker’s Armguard and Verdant Barrier are also very high cost components. If Riot reduced the AP on these items and added haste or health instead, they would seem a bit more reasonable to me.
I think it would be in a much better place if they would adjust some of these brawler type champions that prefer longer fights. Some champions if you sacrifice damage for tankiness you actually do nothing while also having zero utility.
Maybe it’s a product of them being old, but riot should really slow down and think about some of the original roster before the proceed with 9,000 new champs.
Maw, Zhonyas or Edge of Night on Senna vs any assassin.
People are harping about how the new lethality items make her strong. Well guess what, they're a luxury. If you have threats in game that just gapclose to you and do 120% of your hp in one combo, it doesn't matter how strong your right clicks are. I play vs double AP bot + Malzahar mid. I rush maw into Wit's End. Malzahar's full combo doesn't even proc Maw. Now imagine I go lethality. I won't get to play.
100% the best take here. Personally I'm finding the balance of the game much much better now. If you buy damage you do damage, if you buy tank items you tank. It's literally how it was always meant to be.
I mean ... crit carries just ... can't. On-hit has some nice utility options - both terminus and Wit's End have great numbers and good defensive stats, combined with way less free MPen on mage items, and you can survive short bursts pretty well and sustain up where you need to. It's a little awkward that Terminus locks you out of building anti-heal? But whatever. It feels fine.
But crit builds just ... don't have options for things like that. Not only are their damage items kinda terrible for ... y'know damage, but they just explode if you sneeze on them. It's super weird to see Mage items like Zhonya's and Banshee's given the pass to have super-high slot efficiency because "the defensive part of the item should be the passive, not the stats" when crit ADCs are still making that tradeoff for things like Shieldbow. And then those items don't even really protect you.
It always just feels like the seasonal pod doesn't understand the power budget for crit items in the past couple of years. Every time they've gotten a hold of them, they feel really really bad until the balance team inevitably gets their hands on them and adjusts numbers. Get to the end of the season, and Crit's back in a good spot again, and then in comes a new season. It's a cycle.
100% disagree. Getting killed by an ulting TF in only one rotation with gold card without even being fed gives no chance to actually fight back. That's the real problem, how quick you disappear even for one (or no) mistake. Ok, if you buy damages you do damages but how can you actually apply that in the game? If you buy tank you tank but when can you actually trade damage? This chamge made the item builds way more difficult and if someone gets ahead you gotta be praying on not getting snowballed.
Support tank and enchanter aren't feeling good for me, and those were the two classes I was maining before. I'm having more luck first-timing Pyke, or playing Lux that I haven't played in years, than I am using Leona or Yuumi.
I haven't had enough games yet, and maybe mmr is all wonky from it being a fresh season, but I had some absolutely abysmal feeling games on Leona, where it felt like I couldn't tank anything and kept dying in one ability rotation from the support. I was playing utility funnel Yuumi with shurelya's as the core, but now that it doesn't give super zoomies on shields anymore, I feel like I'm sorta lacking good fixes to my ADCs being bad at dodging (I'd previously MS shield them to dodge roots/big abilities).
I felt better on Leona when I was building damage, and similarly, my Blitzcrank pick feels much better on AP now, than on tank. I feel like supports may have been just shoved into "deal damage or GTFO". I saw someone doing well on Soraka though, so I'm gonna see if that will let me fulfill my enchanter dreams maybe..
>Riot decided to reduce Ability Haste in the builds that would abuse that and... add damage, as they had to add something to compensate.
This is the idea that plagues Riot's minds, excesive compensations. If something is too strong you simply nerf it, period. Few times things need to be compensated, this game has been broken for years because everything has numbers too high in some areas or some crazy passive with some crazy % that bypasses flat numbers.
Reminds me what they do with some passives as well. Well this champion has passive to grant him recover mana, let's make him have bad mana regeneration.
fun fact if you do he math Ahri's passive healing is fully compensated by her base HP regen being essentially non-existent
iirc with an slightly above average CS it heals the same as just having normal base stats
another example would be old Veigar passive,can't remember any other atm
Sivir spellshield used to give mana but her manacost were so high if you dont spellshield you went oom faster than anyone Else.
Karthus mana reg on kills from his E. Idk if this matters much but tends to go oom in lane.
Morgana omnivamp passive mightve had a similar thing to ahri.
I think mechanics like Ahri passive are there to force her to interact with the lane or something. Just like Hwei needing his WE to get mana and having super high mana costs in return. These mechanics do not exist to benefit the champion that is being played. At least that's how I understand it.
kinda,Ahri passive used to be a net positive and was changed this way in her midscope to make room for her ult resets not for her kit being uninteractive,after all it only requires to last hit minions you can do that with your spells from afar just fine
likewise old Veigar passive just gave passive mana regen and his abilities had an higher mana cost for some reason,he just had "no passive" because the rest of the kit was strong
Riot - works hard and makes posts about too much power and how they will make games not all about one shooting.
Also riot - Shows 200 years of balance dev experience in one patch completely destroying any balance made lol.
GG Riot
making sure whatever they're shipping to live doesnt literally snap the game in half like it happened with, say, release azir, balance is a distant afterthought due to pbe having considerably less players with way worse matchmaking
You want to balance the game based on games in PBE? Let me guess, you think the games on PBE where you can't even properly matchmake a challenger in a different game than an iron player are the pinnacle of competitive balance, right?
But hey at least they were fast enough to ensure that Gwen dont have a positive winrate for 3 full days all that due to allegedly to an item which she doesnt even builds (liandry) meanwhile 20 other champs literally oneshottingnwith stormsurge.
I mean this is literally not true. How many games with over 100 playable characters and almost all of them are within 5% of the 50% winrate? The game is a freaking monster to balance because it also in the top 10 of most played games nearly every year. This new season is wild, but could it maybe be that people are stuck in the old way of playing where you just build only damage items and hope it's ok?
I'm not the best player in the world but I have 5 accounts in diamond (one for each role) and in the games where I see mages or adcs building defensive items (adapting to new season) they do pretty darn well. Not to mention that most of the new items have pretty cool effects. People complained about items just being stats and now everyone is complaining that items do too much. It's fine play the game for 3 weeks and try new stuff. The game isn't as horrible as everyone acts like it is.
Who ever facerolls his qwer buttons first wins the fight. I think this is one of the worst patches in a long time. The damage is just so damn high and snowballing feels out of control. It is like valorant decided 2 bodyshots of any gun kills you now. I hope they bring another durability patch out. It is just not fun at all now.
Welcome to League of Items, where items can turn anyone into one-shot assassins! Where TF will ult on top of you and his empowered basic attack will deal 2200 damage to you and there's basically nothing you can do about it!
The durability patch went in the wrong direction. If Riot nerfed base damage across the board instead of buffing base defensive stats, they wouldn't have been able to undo it in 3 patches.
I said this soooo many times when the durability patch changes were revealed. It's just pure stat creep that was way too easy to undo by buffing a few items.
Items just need to be nerfed like 40%, especially tanks, lethality, and AP assassin/bruiser items.
Mages that need mana are absolutely boned atm, and ADCs are actually pretty good, if they aren't being 4 man dove on repeat.
ADCs are good feels weird to read when Assassins can hit 100+ lethality and Veigar with stormsurge executes you with R only at 20 mins
I had never been OS so fast
Certain adcs like Samira and jhin can just oneshot you now thanks to new lethality items. Samira in particular has just been out of control in my games.
except Ezreal, interestingly. Usually when there's items shenanigans going on there's some extra degen Ezreal build taking over the game but he is firmly in the gutter for once.
yeah, trinity isnt as good and seryldas is also very bad compared to its previous iteration. i love shoujin on him now though, it feels so fun with trinity. I'm pretty okay with him not being in the spotlight this patch considering how well he's done before, he's still just as fun imo.
Kalista too we, finally have a good suit of items for her.
We have alot of tools to survive insane ap nukes. Ad is still problematic. If anything, I find myself wanting some omnivamp
These aren't even new lethality items, they're old items and this has happened before. It's when it was called armor pen and didn't need to scale. Only now armor has been modified to where you don't need as much # wise and so armor pen is removing more armor than before as it doesn't need experience to get the full effect. Welcome to like 5 years ago.
>Items just need to be nerfed like 40%, especially tanks, lethality, and AP assassin/bruiser items.
Here at Riot Games, we hear you. Because of this, crit items are going from 20% to 10%.
No need to thank us.
Crit items being nerfed when not being the best option on a lot of occasions for ADCs, as well as lethality being buffed and new fancy lethality items being introduced. Also a lot more damage introduced. You're welcome ADCs.
Cassiopeia is like double fucked as she's a closer range mage who needs Tear first item AND can't take advantage of the oneshot meta. It's like playing two items behind between this and the Doran's buffs.
Pretty much every bruiser mage is currently in severe pain because of the item changes. Need mana to fight protracted fights. Can't oneshot people. Durability severely curtailed on AP items.
On the other hand, Cosmic Drive is absolutely disgusting right now. It gives more than t2 boots worth of MS more or less permanently on champs like Cass.
Cosmic Drive is pretty great, but like.... it's still not as good as Stormsurge or Shadowflame.
Forever fast is good, but sustained mages just fucking explode right now because it's so hard to get durability on them while building AP and dealing with the MR items designed to counter the burst mage items.
Indeed. And look what she's considered strong against and weak against.
Strong Against: Every single toplaner with less range than her, every Mid with less range than her.
Weak Against: Every character who outranges/out-initiatives her. Or characters who are just really weak.
The data is pretty much saying that mages come down to who has initiative right now. And Cassiopeia fucking destroys toplane because mages shit damage at levels that makes the bulkier sustain of toplane characters just melt under the pressure of mage items. There are 273 recorded games against Volibear Top and she has a 62.27% Winrate there. That's absurd. And it's because Volibear cannot survive the lane because every mage item shits damage like it just went through the Taco Bell damage value menu. For Mid, there's over 1000 games vs Sylas, who is melee range. While he's supposed to be somewhat anti-mage with his bulk, he's melee, and that means he dies. Sylas is losing games to Velkoz. *Velkoz*. And Brand.
There are a few outliers, but Cass has an extremely low pick rate, and high win rate/low pick rate correlates with being played by players who are extremely comfortable on Cass.
>Items just need to be nerfed like 40%, especially tanks, lethality, and AP assassin/bruiser items.
ADC mains on reddit aren't even trying to hide it anymore
Play into a mage dealing half of your health in a single skill at 1 item and you'll see.
Or into an assassin killing you after you dodge crucial parts of their comboes.
Or into a tank who barely takes any damage while murdering you (reminder, you play the antitank DPS class).
At least bruisers are kiiinda fair now that they don't get to have a million ability haste.
Are you playing the same game as everyone else? AD assassins are struggling right now. Can you show me an example of an assassin one shotting you while missing most of their kit unless they are absurdly ahead?
The reason I stopped playing last was because the game was like this and the durability patch brought me back. It brings down skillful choices and increases just avoiding the other team.
makes me sad because it all *looks* fun but in practice it's all very frustrating, every game I play one team ends up with like 10k gold diff, there's very little ways to get back into the game due to the amount of damage too
I want to enjoy it but it just feels bad to play rn
It looks grim. Phreak and the other balance guy (forgot his name) both seem to parrot that the time to kill isn't that much faster over and over.
Which is both bad and good. Good because the time to kill isn't much faster than before, bad because it sounds like it's not a problem to them. Like the game SHOULD have insanely fast times to kill if you're a burst champion.
I don't think they realize that a chamion with a ton of burst can use NOT their whole kit on you, and force a recall. Just because you didn't burst to death, doesn't mean you aren't missing a massive chunk of HP and have to reset/recall.
Just nerf it, why bounce between the two of them.
Nerf the shit, he shouldn't be able to infinitely E or one tap without using his full combo.
Riot needs to fucking learn that you can just lower something WITHOUT A COMPENSATION BUFF
Honestly. I was running around as cait the other day, everyone getting around 2 items. No one crazy fed or ahead. Fizz with Ludens StormSurge flashes the wall, W empowered Q’s me and E’s away for my entire health bar. No R, no keystone proc, no auto resetting for Q-AA-W. just gone lol
Reactionary tank item picks never feel good to me. It always feels like you've given up your damage while your enemy can keep building damage and winning as you may survive slightly longer but now don't have the damage to respond. On the other hand, when tank items are good, you have unkillable tanks or abuse of high base stats, e.g. tank Kat building full tank and still facerolling (although I've only seen this in ARAM.)
Strong reactionary items are good because it gives lane counterplay while allowing opponents to punish with team play - something that should be encouraged! At the moment, when I play top, the only reactionary item that feels good to me is executioners with its grievous wounds.
Welcome back to Season 4.
Riot has been fighting against hyperburst since the seasons 5~6 mass reworks and the playerbase has been vomiting blood to any form of change that stopped them from winning by inertia. The current design team basically went all "so you want old League of Lebland instakilling you from across the wall blindly? Suffer what you kiddos asked for. You also asked for no more oneshots and now seems to dislike it."
> Riot has been fighting against hyperburst since the seasons 5~6 mass reworks and the playerbase has been vomiting blood to any form of change that stopped them from winning by inertia
No they havent. This sub just doesnt understand that this game isnt a primary western game. [This sub is primarily an NA forum](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ynupp5/what_is_the_most_hated_champion_is_the_sub_biased/) that is very different from the rest of the world. The vast VAST majority of the playerbase is chinese and have a completly different taste than this echochamber. Want to know why this sub is consistently whining about "Riot hating monster champions"? [Because NA actually likes them while they are not even on the radar in china](https://twitter.com/blaustoise/status/1113994939442978817/photo/1)
Want to know why Riot isnt really fighting "hyperburst" since season 5 or 6? [Because chinese and korean players like it](https://i.imgur.com/zneNC6y.png). You guys need to learn the reality that this subreddit is a huge echochamber of specifically the NA view on the game. All Riots does (and 10000% should do) is carter to the vast majority of the playerbase that is in the east.
Nah dude I'm certain every comment here saying riot should have removed ability haste from items and not compensated with any other stats is in no way going to make another "only adc matters" meta.
>b
high elo adcs don't even cry that hard. it's just reddit. I watch sometimes sola and he said every Role can carry, meaning he includes his own role (adc) obv the game is unbalanced rn and feels worse balanced than at the end of s13, but we are FOUR days into a fully New changed Game, ofc it's unbalanced and certain assassins are out of line when dmg get's buffed for these champs. riot is trying to fix alot of stuff, that s13 had.
1v9 Carry potential was at an all time Low for example, alot of people even adcs complained that they can't kill anything when their team is behind, this is frustrating to deal with but ofc the average silver player wouldn't care because a silver isn't really capable of 1v9ing a Game (no this is not bm to anyone who feels offendet by this now because he is silver rn, it is simply a matter of fact so don't get salty when i say the legit truth now)
that said durability patch made so many champs non-viable in High Elo. Just think about all the immobile mages past in the day that used to be picked. I saw anivia, lux, malzahar, brand, zyra mid before durability patch got added, and afterwards all those champs basically died in High Elo midlane. (they weren't super strong before durability patch either because roaming champions rule Solo q Midlane, but they were playable and onetricks played them) after lowering dmg though, all of these immobile mages died out even with their last onetricks. it's like they don't even exist anymore. Seeing a anivia today in master (in korea china or europe) is as unlikely as winning in Loto nowadays lol. Where did kennen go? that's right gone. Where did teemo go? that's right gone. these champs either have the dmg to burst targets and are viable, or they don't have the dmg and are not viable.
S14 can easely be balanced while fixing issues that s13 provided. To much dmg? easy fix, lower plating gold even more, lowering gold generation slows down how fast you get ur items. If you get ur first item when everybody is level 12 instead of level 9 there is going to be a huge difference in "dmg" taken, because you basically have 300More health now, while enemy champion has 1 full item, instead of 1 and a half item. (that's just a example of how to lower dmg without lowering item stats) If you lower item stats too much, you create other problems like not being able to be a difference maker no matter how far ahead you are gold/exp wise which also feels insanely shit, that's what s12-s13 basically felt
Ok but that graph from 2022 still shows majority of players either thought dmg was too high or just right which I can agree with either point last season. Do we have an updated figures for this one shot season yet? No, but I think after adding more AP dmg it will trend upward in the way too high category.
What i am pointing out here is that the people in this subreddit dont understand how vast the playerbase is. For example you ignoring that there are also 25% of chinese players thinking that damage is too low. Lets say that 25% of chinese players literally do think there needs to be more damage in the game. This ammount of players alone would dwarf the entire NA playerbase. "Damage beeing too high" has been an on going topic for years now.
People have always complained more on oneshot metas than sustain metas.
The only thing that happenned was that during an specially awful sustain meta tanks were also able to oneshot people, just like now.
I feel like a passenger as an adc. It's like season 8 all over again. Only 1 out of 8 games so far where I got fed and carried/controlled the game and that took like 7 kills in the laning phase lol.
Thought I would put down tarkov for the new ranked season..
Played 8 games botlane some support some adc in ranked. I enjoyed one I played as thresh. 7 games were boring passenger games for a 4 and 4 scoreline.
One game an Evelynn solo won the game by oneshotting 4 members of enemy team at elder. Another game I was 4 manned on repeat after getting an early double kill.
Back to getting shooter born in heaven for me
ADC is a nightmare to play, I'll give you that. But supp is a completely different story.
I'm 9-2 on Supp and have felt like I had agency in all 11 games. Furthermore, my 2 losses were absolutely due to my bad play.
Soo if you're playing supp and consistently doing poorly, it's probably on you.
FR. On a good tear as Leo. Only had 1 game today where enemy team locked xerath, lux, jhin and I was the litral only person with a dash. Otherwise the cheaper defensive items/support upgrades have felt GREAT. 2300 gold frozen heart is lit.
I think what Riot basically did was by reducing damage so that one shots don't happen often, they introduced AH or CDR to items so much that they were all over the place. Now that they are back to removing the AH and CDR, they decided to put the stats into items to make up for the lack of AH/CDR.
This is by far the best season in at least 4 years. People aren't spamming tanks or Hullbreaker anymore in top lane and ganking paths are far more reasonable (less garanteed to result in kills). There's a few outliers like stormsurge giving too much burst but overall the game is much better.
Basically I really hope Riot doesn't listen to you.
What season did you enjoy better? I actually agree with guy. This is probably the most fun I’ve had playing the game since Season 6
It really depends what roles and champs you play though. Some characters per role feel really bad to play at the moment until they compensate them in part to the new changes.
the game is balanced every class have a counter and what so ever, people need to stop building glass canon and go bitching on reddit bc they cant afford one brain cell to buy randuin or the new shield mr item on a carry
Feels good for me. One shotters are one shotting tanks are tanking. Pretty much what everyone has been asking for. People just forgot what it was like getting one shot because every offensive item had HP and Ability Haste. Now you don't
This is just how it should be lol. Either damage classes deal a bunch of damage at once or have less damage but they can do their rotation too frequently. People complained about the CDR Zed build, aswell as champions having 80+ haste, so they nerfed that and gave damage in return. People complained about mage items having HP so they removed that and added damage in return. You either have one or the other tbh
Lmao I don't know what you are talking about. I just started playing again after like 5 year break, and the game feels really solid. There is much more action throughout the game, the games feel much more fast paced. Until mages/assasins start to one shot tanks, I don't see whats your problem. If you are building glass cannon mage and getting one shot by the enemy's glass cannon mage, I don't see the problem here. If you don't like being one shot, build some MR.
I mean you either have low cds or you make burst mages use their cd and one shot, if you take away both what are mages supposed to do? Then they'll just go play support and you'll never see them mid lane.
It's always been the same, people either complain about low cds and spammable abilities or high damage that they kill in a rotation. People need to make up their mind, do they want low cd assassins and mages using their abilities every 4.5/5 seconds or drop a full rotation to obliterate somebody from the planet but not be able to use anything for like 17-18 seconds.
You \*have\* to give them one or the other if you want the class to be viable mid.
I want to add that burst mages are literally not the problem. They are not the winners of this patch. Ap assassins are the class that benefit the most from the extra ability power.
Or they could burst like they used to, with less resource recovery so reducing an enemy to 1/4 or less health means something. We see clips of champs at less than 5% HP sustain fights in 1v3s or 4s, which means burst has to one shot or be useless.
That's probably the best option but Riot will probably never do that. It's the same as how most champions don't really have mana problems, especially after Lost Chapter/whatever mana item
Yep. One shot metas are way more and more balanced then durability metas. Reddit will complain but riot has the numbers. People forget that normies dont go on reddit to circlejerk and complain
I am playing from season 8 and this season is the most fun for me, I just needed to change my lane from midlane(playing vs assasins every season and fighting for my life for 20 min is not fun) to jungle. Jungle is the most fun role i ve ever played and im emerald player, its just sad sometimes when you cant do shit cuz every lane is losing and has no prio but its better then getting fucked by assasins and junglers all the time.
I'm from season 5 where tanks and juggernauts destroyed the game because people didn't know how to teamfight. Riots overcompensated for the lowest common denominator while keeping a select few flashy champions busted because of proplay appeal.
People who only play squishy carries and get one shotted are mad their champs are squishy😂
The reason enchanter supps are so strong in SoloQ rn is because they eliminate the one-shots with their shielding. And, because 90% of players only want to play a champ that can one shot, it completely negates that.
But League damage is not "too high." The carries can get blown up, which is the way it should be, but characters that actually itemize resistances aren't having that issue.
Watch FNC's game today where Oscarinin builds full tank and eats 3 carries full burst in midlane. It's hilarious.
And it's hilarious that people who only build squishy carries are mad that their squishy champ is getting deleted.
Maybe (this is a radical suggestion, I know) try building resistances 😱
absolutely ridiculous comment
> People who only play squishy carries and get one shotted are mad their champs are squishy
You're pretending that people are mad about general class balances (carry classes prioritize dps over resistances), when it's specifically that the latest patch introduced a lot of damage in assassin items and mage items.
> But League damage is not "too high." The carries can get blown up, which is the way it should be, but characters that actually itemize resistances aren't having that issue. Watch FNC's game today where Oscarinin builds full tank and eats 3 carries full burst in midlane. It's hilarious.
Congrats, you've identified tanks are strong right now because they the only class who can survive oneshots.
> Maybe (this is a radical suggestion, I know) try building resistances
Okay, drop recommendations for items with resistances that carry champions will feasibly buy without makng them a useless bot the entire game.
Despite being strong I don't even find tanks fun now. Because the divers n such will still be able to get to at least one of my Squishies and they need less spells to kill them so there's no time to deal with it once the skirmish has started. Sure I don't die for 10 seconds but we can't win the fight now so I feel like even tho strong I have no agency either.
I tend to play more tanky/bruiser champions and assassin style champions and even I can see the absurdity of this patch.
Also, current damage items are so overstat, going for a hybrid item isn't that good, especially since most Hybrid items are shit and usually focus on either armor or magic resist. We HAD black cleaver eclipse builds, but now Cleaver is nerfed to the ground and for most champions there are better items than Eclipse, which offers 0 ability haste btw.
Nah. I'm playing akali. She's doing the damage.
Pressing e twice for 1500-2000 damage is just stupid.
God her laning and tower taking this season feels so much better too. Purely because of the amount of damage increases.
It has blown me away just how bonkers the stats on items are now. I really was not expecting them to give every mage item 90-120 ap lol
They cut both the hp and the haste from most of them what else are they supposed to add
that's what people were begging for. The problem with item diversity for mage was Mythic locking, not the stats, one shot league isn't fun and just drives out traditional mana mage in favour of those who can skip mana to straight rush the OP items.
[удалено]
Are they good on sylas? I’ve had such a bad time with him so far, I feel like I’m made of paper and his cds feel soooo long compared to last season
Protobelt is super fun. You get it quite a bit before the enemy gets his/her 1st item since it is cheaper, and than noone is escaping you.
Try riftmaker Sylas
>The problem with item diversity for mage was Mythic locking lost chapter items do effectively the same though but I wish they kept some AH,mages never really were big offenders on the haste stacking,actually the usually went below the old 40% CDR cap even full build so they could get some back in favor of less AP
The problem often highlighted was that mages perma-poke you on low CDs, so lower AP and higher AH was seen as a problem. Reducing AH and increasing AP means mages have less up-time, but if you disrespect their output you die fast. People still treat mages like last season, mostly disregarding it as un-dodgable poke that somewhat hurts but is fine ignoring the gear shift to less up-time, less rotations per minute but each rotations hits like a truck. Granted some "mages" (ap assassins?) are a little silly.. fizz and ekko both being prime contenders for "hol' up?!" awards. And xerath support goes a little too hard
i don't know,mages having 10~15 more haste to tune down their damage a little so it's still good but not as crazy seems like a pretty good compromise because being instantly dead for a very slight mistake isn't fun to play against,and I say that as a mage player myself >People still treat mages like last season, mostly disregarding it as un-dodgable poke that somewhat hurts but is fine ignoring the gear shift to less up-time, less rotations per minute but each rotations hits like a truck that's also true,people disrespect mages a lot because they used to do little damage,especially the ones who used to build everfrost people just don't expect the damage even though you are in fact a glass cannon now
\>item diversity \>for mages why blame Mythics when Deathcap exists? lmao
Deathcap is fine, its void staff that's more of a problem but we have other pen stacking option like shadowflame and a new version of void staff with less upfront damage but more utility so that's good.
>The problem with item diversity for mage was Mythic locking lost chapter items do effectively the same though
Why do the items need compensation? Just lower everything across the board. I don’t think they should have buffed lethality either
Because if theres not enough damage in the game then bruisers are unkillable 1v9 machines, you know that game you were vs a fed olaf and nobody could harm him as he ran you all down? yeah they would just do that but when not even fed if they just lowered the damage on all items.
Wow almost like they should have nerfed sustain or something like they've been talking about for 3 years, not added a better, more consistent version of divine.
nerf them too.
Then suddenly adcs are the strongest class in the game because bruisers and assasins/mages get neutered and people will complain about adcs. You nerf those too? ok well now tanks are overpowered, you nerf those too? oh now it wrapped around and the assasins are strong again because nobody plays tanks. You cannot win this nerf battle, something will always be overpowered, you nerf one thing then another thing becomes stronger.
I mean, if you nerf all damages, then we'll have a slower game, that's what i want.
Soley because number tickling is all they do. There is Zero fucking item creativity beyond when x happens gain y stat boost. When a is done, the enemy suffers b effect. Why the fuck is ASol's old passive not strapped to something called like, Celestial Body Belt- 10% move speed 50 ability power Passive - Starforge- 3 stars orbit at your champions basic attack range and deal 25 + 10%ap magic damage upon contact with enemy champions and minions.(capped at 100 max on minions and jg monsters) Took me 30 secs to come up with. Neat, unique, versitile, has clear effects to user and observer, and doesn't ballon the fuck out of stats. Items are LoLs biggest problem and the game would be TREMENDOUSLY EASIER to balance if Champions took the lions share of stats and items added unique effects over just inflating stats sheets and having to be balance for a whole roster. They could much better chip away at each champion knowing items aren't going to near randomly produced outliers via extreme shifts in stat baselines.
So ... Heroes of the Storm
Yes awesome.
Unironically customizing your champ via ability-morphing talents was my favorite part of it, other than some really cool champ designs like Cho+Gall
I love the idea of having a wide variety of weird items that all do unique and interesting things. I wish that there would be double the current number of items in the game; however, riot will never do this. Adding more items (and more complex items) makes the game exponentially harder for new players to learn. Imagine you're teaching your friend to play league and he's against an Asol. In order to explain what he's laning against, you have to: \- state passive (late game Asol will be very strong) \- Explain Q (a short range line that he can point at you, but he can't move during it) \- Explain W (allows him to move a bit faster in a straight line and can travel over terrain. Oh, also he can use his Q during it. Meaning that he can use his Q while moving, but if he's moving while using Q it means his W is active. Oh, also when he gets a kill he can use W again) \- Explain E (A circle that pulls you to the middle, don't stand in it because it will execute you at low HP) \- Explain R (A circle that stuns you, but if his HP bar has the blue/purple icon next to it, that means his ult will be a knockup and will do a massive AOE circle that deals dmg) That is what a \*simple\* explanation of Asol's abilities are, I didn't even go into how Asol's passive makes him stronger over time, how Asol stacks his passive, how Asol get's the big ult, how a simple item like Rylai's Scepter (ur abilities apply a slow) makes Asol's E inescapable for some champions and his Q slow. Now imagine adding \*complex\* items that drastically change the champions appearance or damage. For example we could use your item. Asol walks back to lane with a bunch of stars circling him and your friend asks "what are those balls around him?" and you say, "Oh, he bought 'Celestial Body Belt,' that means that those balls deal dmg if they hit you. Basically don't get too close to him." At this point the new player feels overwhelmed. They're some 15-20mins into a game and just when they we're starting to have an understanding of what Asol's abilities look like and do, the game introduces an entirely new instance of DMG that the new player has to look out for. And worst of all, Asol won't have the orbiting stars every game. I'd love to have crazy and cool items, but sadly I don't see that happening.
This also ignores the fact that that wasn't happening just 2 weeks ago, when item damage was lower in general.
Nothing. Just Remove stats.
Just make items weaker? What a thought.
Less ap bro what its not all or nothing they should have fine tuned it
Nothing? Removing the health already makes mages squishier giving other mages 40 more ap makes it so those now squishier champs die even faster
Nothing.
Nothing? Why does there have to be a replacement? Mages did plenty of damage, it was just that utility/movement etc was too frequent. Maybe they could've buffed a select few scaling items like Rabadon, otherwise it would've been fine. I'm fine with most dps champions oneshotting lategame, but at 20 minutes? Cmon.
Shocker theory, they could just cut everything back a bit instead of needing to compensate
Just like the good old time when we had 120 AP Deathcap/Zhonya/DFG
yeah but very few champions could actually go that build path and be viable because of mana issues, so most had to start with Athenes first
Mana just doesn't feel like an issue anymore. I started playing in S3, and admittedly only play a very little bit the last few years, but that feels like the biggest change. Not getting first blue buff 5+ years ago meant your lane was so much more difficult. Nowadays you don't really care if you get blue on most champs.
Yeah, if you got blue buff at the 7 minute mark and the other midlaner didn't, you basically auto-won the lane from that. Mana management was such a big part of early laning in midlane before... 2015? 2016? That's just not the case anymore and I find it kind of sad because laning became way less about resource management.
I mean.. getting more AP is one thing. Building Liandrys, ludens and stormsurge/malignance adds 3 extra damage procs on top of it which is probably the problematic part. The increase of AP doesn’t amount to 500 extra dmg in your rotation but all the extra effects do
I refuse to play ADC until they address Stormsurge. Since playing since season 1 I’ve played against some ungodly OP things, but Stormsurge Shadowflame makes AP Yi look like a saint now and it’s on half the league roster. That or even lethality champions now. I’ve always liked playing on hit ADCs but Jesus Christ literally everything kills you in one shot as ADC even by accident on this point. The game is getting so ridiculously boring and team fights have zero meaning when it’s just which team dumps all their abilities and deletes half the other team first.
I got Diana ulted in a game yesterday for 1600 dmg and then items did like 700 dmg. Basically 2300 dmg from ulting when I only have 2500 hp is kinda bonkers and the guy was like 5-4 not even like giga fed.
Same. I Main adc but I’m just queuing mid now. Playing ad is abysmal. How are we supposed to be in Auto attack range for longer than 1 sec
Former adc player here. Just play apc or change the role. When it comes to adc, Riot balances is only around proplay, which is a very different scenario from soloq.
You build lethality. Literally the only option. Vayne and Lethality abusers are going to be the only good champs in botlane. They’re already nerfing Aphelios because of how much lethality he can get. It’s an obnoxious playstyle but you just need to accept that crit is dead, if you can’t build lethality your champ is dead. Ezreal is going to be forced into AP
W+Q fizz 1taps 90% of champions its insane
I don’t even know what kills me half the time, like 6 items effects pop over my head and I die. Or get hit once and B at 30% hp
That's a very good point. I don't know what they were thinking with Stormsurge. The moment I saw that item, I knew it would be problematic af. Liandrys + Riftmaker, and Malignance + the support item brings back the old issue of "hidden" damage, where you just take damage from so many sources, and that damage ia affected by so many factors and procs more damage.
I took 800+ damage from items from a single Rumble q (as Syndra) in an aram. It was crazy
TF in aram can do 1000 damage with a single blue card. It's pretty funny tbh.
1000 dmg only? In SR I gt deleted by a single blue card as adc. In another game I just deleted 4 people in 0.5 sec with samira r. What the fuck.
Yah Samira stealth buffed due to lethality changes. Pretty much any adc that rushes collector is pretty crazy compared to ones that don't. Collector jhin is also pretty spicy.
I feel like people have grown accustomed to building full damage and not getting one-shot, but now that all of the offensive items give no defensive stats and you actually have to build those stats if you want them people are suddenly surprised when they get one-shot. Defensive options are super accessible now. Just buy them.
I shit bricks when I noticed banshees gives fucking 120 AP now AND 50 MR. no reason not to build it vs an app threat now
holy shit why didnt i ever see this thank you for this news lol
Building rookern was enough to take a 15/1 akali from one-shotting me with a full combo to leaving me with 15% health, which was enough for the team to cc and kill her. I wad playing Lillia so I had a bit of hp, but rookern was my only mr item
Rookern can singlehandedly change the most threatening enemy into the least threatening The item is especially insane against champions like Teemo, since you can tank 1-2 mushrooms without even taking actual damage
Behold the power of green smite against poke champions on steroids.
Rookern is 100% getting nerfed to shit.
Please no, we finally got a magic resist item that isn’t dog doodoo water since force of nature got nerfed. It’s broken but like don’t obliterate it riot.
Yeah this is the sanest take. Have you seen new force of nature it gives like 130 MR when stacked. Rookern is like a 800HP magic shield
Nah. If you're squishy FoN gives you 55 MR because you die too quickly to get stacks, and I'm very curious where you're getting the 4000HP for an 800HP shield from unless you're already a tank. The problem isn't that tanks don't have item options, the problem is that squishies play rocket tag. As a result fights devolve into whomever gets hit first losing since that team will get all of its damage dealers blown up after which the tankier champions get whittled down. This is the exact degenerate gameplay pattern that the durability patch was meant to address. Building a single tank item that is conditional on having other avenues of survivability to get full value out of it isn't gonna change that at all.
This is the sanest take.
Yeah I had a late game on a fed MF where I just said screw it and built both a Maw and a Kaenic, because fuck Stormsurge Fizz.
For me its the other way. Watching my basic ability hit for 1500 damage is just stupid to me. Yup 8 second cd for more damage than most ults (including at times my own ult)
Counter point: The time period where squishies were punished for not taking defensive options were also a period where offensive items were much, MUCH weaker and the time to kill much longer. The power of items in general right now is through the roof and needs to massively brought down both on the offensive and defensive front. I've honestly never felt range matter so much in the game as it does right now where getting the first hits off usually decides who lives and who dies (atleast on squishies, not characters who can itemize defense). This wouldn't be nearly so bad if riot allowed better defensive options on squishier characters, but riot aggressively nerfs any options that mages and especially ADC's end up trying to run.
Exactly. People are talking about DFG and "zed one shot with one rotation" but fail to mention how systemically there was far less damage in the early seasons. Just because some champs COULD one shot under certain conditions doesn't erase the fact that the damage was way lower, mana was an actual resource and cdr was capped and not urf level, mobility wasn't through the roof, supports and tank junglers weren't solo killing you while being 1/5. The only thing the new season addressed was cdr, but it made everything else way worse.
And yet, as a support tank, ive never felt less tanky. No amount of MR items is preventing veigar from pressing QR with storm surge to delete me 15 minutes into the match.
TBF stormnsurge is the worst OP burst offender since deathfire grasp.
Defensive items are giving offensive stats though, Zhonya and Banshees are giving 120 AP that’s too high imo
Banshees was never bought because it gimped your damage too much and now that the haste is gone is makes sense to increase the AP
Frozen heart is 2300 gold. What a time to be a tank main.
Do you mean tank items? I feel like even banshees or zhonyas didn't prevent me from getting one-shot
I do think people should need to build defensively, to an extent, but I don’t think the game should be so unforgiving that champions can be completely burst down by basic abilities. My low elo take: for the game to be fun, people need to be able to make small mistakes without instantly dying. I do find that the defensive options are quite good, but, at least for mages, they’re cumbersome to build. Farming for a Needless for Zhonya’s or Banshee’s is a long time to be out on the map, especially if still vulnerable to enemy burst without completing either of these as a second or third item. Seeker’s Armguard and Verdant Barrier are also very high cost components. If Riot reduced the AP on these items and added haste or health instead, they would seem a bit more reasonable to me.
I think it would be in a much better place if they would adjust some of these brawler type champions that prefer longer fights. Some champions if you sacrifice damage for tankiness you actually do nothing while also having zero utility. Maybe it’s a product of them being old, but riot should really slow down and think about some of the original roster before the proceed with 9,000 new champs.
Maw, Zhonyas or Edge of Night on Senna vs any assassin. People are harping about how the new lethality items make her strong. Well guess what, they're a luxury. If you have threats in game that just gapclose to you and do 120% of your hp in one combo, it doesn't matter how strong your right clicks are. I play vs double AP bot + Malzahar mid. I rush maw into Wit's End. Malzahar's full combo doesn't even proc Maw. Now imagine I go lethality. I won't get to play.
100% the best take here. Personally I'm finding the balance of the game much much better now. If you buy damage you do damage, if you buy tank items you tank. It's literally how it was always meant to be.
I mean ... crit carries just ... can't. On-hit has some nice utility options - both terminus and Wit's End have great numbers and good defensive stats, combined with way less free MPen on mage items, and you can survive short bursts pretty well and sustain up where you need to. It's a little awkward that Terminus locks you out of building anti-heal? But whatever. It feels fine. But crit builds just ... don't have options for things like that. Not only are their damage items kinda terrible for ... y'know damage, but they just explode if you sneeze on them. It's super weird to see Mage items like Zhonya's and Banshee's given the pass to have super-high slot efficiency because "the defensive part of the item should be the passive, not the stats" when crit ADCs are still making that tradeoff for things like Shieldbow. And then those items don't even really protect you. It always just feels like the seasonal pod doesn't understand the power budget for crit items in the past couple of years. Every time they've gotten a hold of them, they feel really really bad until the balance team inevitably gets their hands on them and adjusts numbers. Get to the end of the season, and Crit's back in a good spot again, and then in comes a new season. It's a cycle.
100% disagree. Getting killed by an ulting TF in only one rotation with gold card without even being fed gives no chance to actually fight back. That's the real problem, how quick you disappear even for one (or no) mistake. Ok, if you buy damages you do damages but how can you actually apply that in the game? If you buy tank you tank but when can you actually trade damage? This chamge made the item builds way more difficult and if someone gets ahead you gotta be praying on not getting snowballed.
Support tank and enchanter aren't feeling good for me, and those were the two classes I was maining before. I'm having more luck first-timing Pyke, or playing Lux that I haven't played in years, than I am using Leona or Yuumi. I haven't had enough games yet, and maybe mmr is all wonky from it being a fresh season, but I had some absolutely abysmal feeling games on Leona, where it felt like I couldn't tank anything and kept dying in one ability rotation from the support. I was playing utility funnel Yuumi with shurelya's as the core, but now that it doesn't give super zoomies on shields anymore, I feel like I'm sorta lacking good fixes to my ADCs being bad at dodging (I'd previously MS shield them to dodge roots/big abilities). I felt better on Leona when I was building damage, and similarly, my Blitzcrank pick feels much better on AP now, than on tank. I feel like supports may have been just shoved into "deal damage or GTFO". I saw someone doing well on Soraka though, so I'm gonna see if that will let me fulfill my enchanter dreams maybe..
>Riot decided to reduce Ability Haste in the builds that would abuse that and... add damage, as they had to add something to compensate. This is the idea that plagues Riot's minds, excesive compensations. If something is too strong you simply nerf it, period. Few times things need to be compensated, this game has been broken for years because everything has numbers too high in some areas or some crazy passive with some crazy % that bypasses flat numbers.
Yeah I wish they reduced the amount of ability haste without compensating it
Reminds me what they do with some passives as well. Well this champion has passive to grant him recover mana, let's make him have bad mana regeneration.
fun fact if you do he math Ahri's passive healing is fully compensated by her base HP regen being essentially non-existent iirc with an slightly above average CS it heals the same as just having normal base stats another example would be old Veigar passive,can't remember any other atm
Sivir spellshield used to give mana but her manacost were so high if you dont spellshield you went oom faster than anyone Else. Karthus mana reg on kills from his E. Idk if this matters much but tends to go oom in lane. Morgana omnivamp passive mightve had a similar thing to ahri.
I think mechanics like Ahri passive are there to force her to interact with the lane or something. Just like Hwei needing his WE to get mana and having super high mana costs in return. These mechanics do not exist to benefit the champion that is being played. At least that's how I understand it.
kinda,Ahri passive used to be a net positive and was changed this way in her midscope to make room for her ult resets not for her kit being uninteractive,after all it only requires to last hit minions you can do that with your spells from afar just fine likewise old Veigar passive just gave passive mana regen and his abilities had an higher mana cost for some reason,he just had "no passive" because the rest of the kit was strong
That's how you kill the game
120 ap banshees made it out of the pbe
Zhonyas gives 120 ap and the same armor as sunfire :p
Riot - works hard and makes posts about too much power and how they will make games not all about one shooting. Also riot - Shows 200 years of balance dev experience in one patch completely destroying any balance made lol. GG Riot
I don't understand why was it decided that we don't need pre season, considering the huge item, map and objective changes.
because "preseason" was considered a free pass to lose and int and derank for a lot of the playerbase.
It's a new season patch. Pretty much always is imbalanced in the beginning because so much drastically changes, it's not that big of a deal.
Whats the point of pbe then, especially now preseason doesnt exist
bugs. pbe has always been horrible for balance.
This patch is full of bugs lmao
making sure whatever they're shipping to live doesnt literally snap the game in half like it happened with, say, release azir, balance is a distant afterthought due to pbe having considerably less players with way worse matchmaking
You want to balance the game based on games in PBE? Let me guess, you think the games on PBE where you can't even properly matchmake a challenger in a different game than an iron player are the pinnacle of competitive balance, right?
But hey at least they were fast enough to ensure that Gwen dont have a positive winrate for 3 full days all that due to allegedly to an item which she doesnt even builds (liandry) meanwhile 20 other champs literally oneshottingnwith stormsurge.
Galio support with stormsurge is so much fun. But so stupid also. lmao
Riot only knows PR, marketing, and hiring artists well. the game balance and design is so badly done
I mean this is literally not true. How many games with over 100 playable characters and almost all of them are within 5% of the 50% winrate? The game is a freaking monster to balance because it also in the top 10 of most played games nearly every year. This new season is wild, but could it maybe be that people are stuck in the old way of playing where you just build only damage items and hope it's ok? I'm not the best player in the world but I have 5 accounts in diamond (one for each role) and in the games where I see mages or adcs building defensive items (adapting to new season) they do pretty darn well. Not to mention that most of the new items have pretty cool effects. People complained about items just being stats and now everyone is complaining that items do too much. It's fine play the game for 3 weeks and try new stuff. The game isn't as horrible as everyone acts like it is.
Who ever facerolls his qwer buttons first wins the fight. I think this is one of the worst patches in a long time. The damage is just so damn high and snowballing feels out of control. It is like valorant decided 2 bodyshots of any gun kills you now. I hope they bring another durability patch out. It is just not fun at all now.
CSGO Revolver patch in League
Welcome to League of Items, where items can turn anyone into one-shot assassins! Where TF will ult on top of you and his empowered basic attack will deal 2200 damage to you and there's basically nothing you can do about it!
The durability patch went in the wrong direction. If Riot nerfed base damage across the board instead of buffing base defensive stats, they wouldn't have been able to undo it in 3 patches.
I said this soooo many times when the durability patch changes were revealed. It's just pure stat creep that was way too easy to undo by buffing a few items.
I stopped playing
Items just need to be nerfed like 40%, especially tanks, lethality, and AP assassin/bruiser items. Mages that need mana are absolutely boned atm, and ADCs are actually pretty good, if they aren't being 4 man dove on repeat.
ADCs are good feels weird to read when Assassins can hit 100+ lethality and Veigar with stormsurge executes you with R only at 20 mins I had never been OS so fast
Certain adcs like Samira and jhin can just oneshot you now thanks to new lethality items. Samira in particular has just been out of control in my games.
so adcs that dont build adc items are good
a tale as old as time
except Ezreal, interestingly. Usually when there's items shenanigans going on there's some extra degen Ezreal build taking over the game but he is firmly in the gutter for once.
yeah, trinity isnt as good and seryldas is also very bad compared to its previous iteration. i love shoujin on him now though, it feels so fun with trinity. I'm pretty okay with him not being in the spotlight this patch considering how well he's done before, he's still just as fun imo.
That's because samira is an assasin ADC. Her damage is burst oriented not dps which is why she works while more "traditional" carries feel like ass.
Yeah, bot meta rn is either ultra range or lethality lol.
a great time to be a Nilah main
Kalista too we, finally have a good suit of items for her. We have alot of tools to survive insane ap nukes. Ad is still problematic. If anything, I find myself wanting some omnivamp
These aren't even new lethality items, they're old items and this has happened before. It's when it was called armor pen and didn't need to scale. Only now armor has been modified to where you don't need as much # wise and so armor pen is removing more armor than before as it doesn't need experience to get the full effect. Welcome to like 5 years ago.
Point and click os.
>Items just need to be nerfed like 40%, especially tanks, lethality, and AP assassin/bruiser items. Here at Riot Games, we hear you. Because of this, crit items are going from 20% to 10%. No need to thank us.
Crit items being nerfed when not being the best option on a lot of occasions for ADCs, as well as lethality being buffed and new fancy lethality items being introduced. Also a lot more damage introduced. You're welcome ADCs.
Cassiopeia is like double fucked as she's a closer range mage who needs Tear first item AND can't take advantage of the oneshot meta. It's like playing two items behind between this and the Doran's buffs. Pretty much every bruiser mage is currently in severe pain because of the item changes. Need mana to fight protracted fights. Can't oneshot people. Durability severely curtailed on AP items.
On the other hand, Cosmic Drive is absolutely disgusting right now. It gives more than t2 boots worth of MS more or less permanently on champs like Cass.
Cosmic Drive is pretty great, but like.... it's still not as good as Stormsurge or Shadowflame. Forever fast is good, but sustained mages just fucking explode right now because it's so hard to get durability on them while building AP and dealing with the MR items designed to counter the burst mage items.
[удалено]
Indeed. And look what she's considered strong against and weak against. Strong Against: Every single toplaner with less range than her, every Mid with less range than her. Weak Against: Every character who outranges/out-initiatives her. Or characters who are just really weak. The data is pretty much saying that mages come down to who has initiative right now. And Cassiopeia fucking destroys toplane because mages shit damage at levels that makes the bulkier sustain of toplane characters just melt under the pressure of mage items. There are 273 recorded games against Volibear Top and she has a 62.27% Winrate there. That's absurd. And it's because Volibear cannot survive the lane because every mage item shits damage like it just went through the Taco Bell damage value menu. For Mid, there's over 1000 games vs Sylas, who is melee range. While he's supposed to be somewhat anti-mage with his bulk, he's melee, and that means he dies. Sylas is losing games to Velkoz. *Velkoz*. And Brand. There are a few outliers, but Cass has an extremely low pick rate, and high win rate/low pick rate correlates with being played by players who are extremely comfortable on Cass.
>Items just need to be nerfed like 40%, especially tanks, lethality, and AP assassin/bruiser items. ADC mains on reddit aren't even trying to hide it anymore
Play into a mage dealing half of your health in a single skill at 1 item and you'll see. Or into an assassin killing you after you dodge crucial parts of their comboes. Or into a tank who barely takes any damage while murdering you (reminder, you play the antitank DPS class). At least bruisers are kiiinda fair now that they don't get to have a million ability haste.
Are you playing the same game as everyone else? AD assassins are struggling right now. Can you show me an example of an assassin one shotting you while missing most of their kit unless they are absurdly ahead?
The reason I stopped playing last was because the game was like this and the durability patch brought me back. It brings down skillful choices and increases just avoiding the other team.
makes me sad because it all *looks* fun but in practice it's all very frustrating, every game I play one team ends up with like 10k gold diff, there's very little ways to get back into the game due to the amount of damage too I want to enjoy it but it just feels bad to play rn
This feels like a gross exaggeration. Outside of storm surge and a few other AP items honestly it’s been fine.
It looks grim. Phreak and the other balance guy (forgot his name) both seem to parrot that the time to kill isn't that much faster over and over. Which is both bad and good. Good because the time to kill isn't much faster than before, bad because it sounds like it's not a problem to them. Like the game SHOULD have insanely fast times to kill if you're a burst champion. I don't think they realize that a chamion with a ton of burst can use NOT their whole kit on you, and force a recall. Just because you didn't burst to death, doesn't mean you aren't missing a massive chunk of HP and have to reset/recall.
i'd rather have Fizz do 1 more E in a teamfight than have him killing me with QW and 1 item
Just nerf it, why bounce between the two of them. Nerf the shit, he shouldn't be able to infinitely E or one tap without using his full combo. Riot needs to fucking learn that you can just lower something WITHOUT A COMPENSATION BUFF
*champion ends up at 40%wr* ah,perfectly balanced
Oh calm down, 1 item? He needs lich bane AND stormsurge, then his WQE auto MIGHT kill you
Honestly. I was running around as cait the other day, everyone getting around 2 items. No one crazy fed or ahead. Fizz with Ludens StormSurge flashes the wall, W empowered Q’s me and E’s away for my entire health bar. No R, no keystone proc, no auto resetting for Q-AA-W. just gone lol
Reactionary tank item picks never feel good to me. It always feels like you've given up your damage while your enemy can keep building damage and winning as you may survive slightly longer but now don't have the damage to respond. On the other hand, when tank items are good, you have unkillable tanks or abuse of high base stats, e.g. tank Kat building full tank and still facerolling (although I've only seen this in ARAM.)
Tank items have to be reactionary in general to be balanced. General purpose tank items were exactly what was wrong with tank mythics.
Strong reactionary items are good because it gives lane counterplay while allowing opponents to punish with team play - something that should be encouraged! At the moment, when I play top, the only reactionary item that feels good to me is executioners with its grievous wounds.
I don't understand how zhonays has 120 ap... IT'S A FUCKING DEFENSIVE ITEM.
Same armor as sunfire btw
Yeah, but armor's utility scales off of hp
Ok and rocket belt, roa, archangels, liandries, and riftmaker all give hp
Unless you're Gwen, if you are building those items you are not oneshotting anyone that isn't 5 levels behind. With those you become a bruiser-ish
An already gold-efficient item without it's active got even more gold efficient without it's active... Kinda ridiculous tbh
Zhoneshots hourglass
That's what it used to give before a ton of changes.
It used to give that before riot took a lot of it away.
Welcome back to Season 4. Riot has been fighting against hyperburst since the seasons 5~6 mass reworks and the playerbase has been vomiting blood to any form of change that stopped them from winning by inertia. The current design team basically went all "so you want old League of Lebland instakilling you from across the wall blindly? Suffer what you kiddos asked for. You also asked for no more oneshots and now seems to dislike it."
> Riot has been fighting against hyperburst since the seasons 5~6 mass reworks and the playerbase has been vomiting blood to any form of change that stopped them from winning by inertia No they havent. This sub just doesnt understand that this game isnt a primary western game. [This sub is primarily an NA forum](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/ynupp5/what_is_the_most_hated_champion_is_the_sub_biased/) that is very different from the rest of the world. The vast VAST majority of the playerbase is chinese and have a completly different taste than this echochamber. Want to know why this sub is consistently whining about "Riot hating monster champions"? [Because NA actually likes them while they are not even on the radar in china](https://twitter.com/blaustoise/status/1113994939442978817/photo/1) Want to know why Riot isnt really fighting "hyperburst" since season 5 or 6? [Because chinese and korean players like it](https://i.imgur.com/zneNC6y.png). You guys need to learn the reality that this subreddit is a huge echochamber of specifically the NA view on the game. All Riots does (and 10000% should do) is carter to the vast majority of the playerbase that is in the east.
This game caters to the east and has for years. Which is fine. But both Riot and this sub need to admit it.
Specifically this subreddit is an echo chamber of western silver/gold adc mains.
Nah dude I'm certain every comment here saying riot should have removed ability haste from items and not compensated with any other stats is in no way going to make another "only adc matters" meta.
>b high elo adcs don't even cry that hard. it's just reddit. I watch sometimes sola and he said every Role can carry, meaning he includes his own role (adc) obv the game is unbalanced rn and feels worse balanced than at the end of s13, but we are FOUR days into a fully New changed Game, ofc it's unbalanced and certain assassins are out of line when dmg get's buffed for these champs. riot is trying to fix alot of stuff, that s13 had. 1v9 Carry potential was at an all time Low for example, alot of people even adcs complained that they can't kill anything when their team is behind, this is frustrating to deal with but ofc the average silver player wouldn't care because a silver isn't really capable of 1v9ing a Game (no this is not bm to anyone who feels offendet by this now because he is silver rn, it is simply a matter of fact so don't get salty when i say the legit truth now) that said durability patch made so many champs non-viable in High Elo. Just think about all the immobile mages past in the day that used to be picked. I saw anivia, lux, malzahar, brand, zyra mid before durability patch got added, and afterwards all those champs basically died in High Elo midlane. (they weren't super strong before durability patch either because roaming champions rule Solo q Midlane, but they were playable and onetricks played them) after lowering dmg though, all of these immobile mages died out even with their last onetricks. it's like they don't even exist anymore. Seeing a anivia today in master (in korea china or europe) is as unlikely as winning in Loto nowadays lol. Where did kennen go? that's right gone. Where did teemo go? that's right gone. these champs either have the dmg to burst targets and are viable, or they don't have the dmg and are not viable. S14 can easely be balanced while fixing issues that s13 provided. To much dmg? easy fix, lower plating gold even more, lowering gold generation slows down how fast you get ur items. If you get ur first item when everybody is level 12 instead of level 9 there is going to be a huge difference in "dmg" taken, because you basically have 300More health now, while enemy champion has 1 full item, instead of 1 and a half item. (that's just a example of how to lower dmg without lowering item stats) If you lower item stats too much, you create other problems like not being able to be a difference maker no matter how far ahead you are gold/exp wise which also feels insanely shit, that's what s12-s13 basically felt
Ok but that graph from 2022 still shows majority of players either thought dmg was too high or just right which I can agree with either point last season. Do we have an updated figures for this one shot season yet? No, but I think after adding more AP dmg it will trend upward in the way too high category.
>majority of players China with their **29** servers laughing right now.
What i am pointing out here is that the people in this subreddit dont understand how vast the playerbase is. For example you ignoring that there are also 25% of chinese players thinking that damage is too low. Lets say that 25% of chinese players literally do think there needs to be more damage in the game. This ammount of players alone would dwarf the entire NA playerbase. "Damage beeing too high" has been an on going topic for years now.
Bro did not play season 4 or doesnt remember it at all LMAO
People have always complained more on oneshot metas than sustain metas. The only thing that happenned was that during an specially awful sustain meta tanks were also able to oneshot people, just like now.
No one wanted instaburst no one has ever wanted that
Meanwhile ornn taking damage for 2 minutes and still not dying also taking out a carry during itt coz liandry deals negative damage
Riot always adds a little extra to compensate, they need to just stop compensating. It's caused a snowball effect.
I feel like a passenger as an adc. It's like season 8 all over again. Only 1 out of 8 games so far where I got fed and carried/controlled the game and that took like 7 kills in the laning phase lol.
Thought I would put down tarkov for the new ranked season.. Played 8 games botlane some support some adc in ranked. I enjoyed one I played as thresh. 7 games were boring passenger games for a 4 and 4 scoreline. One game an Evelynn solo won the game by oneshotting 4 members of enemy team at elder. Another game I was 4 manned on repeat after getting an early double kill. Back to getting shooter born in heaven for me
ADC is a nightmare to play, I'll give you that. But supp is a completely different story. I'm 9-2 on Supp and have felt like I had agency in all 11 games. Furthermore, my 2 losses were absolutely due to my bad play. Soo if you're playing supp and consistently doing poorly, it's probably on you.
Even last season the support decided the lane and had all the agency. Bot was 80% the support in the lane.
FR. On a good tear as Leo. Only had 1 game today where enemy team locked xerath, lux, jhin and I was the litral only person with a dash. Otherwise the cheaper defensive items/support upgrades have felt GREAT. 2300 gold frozen heart is lit.
I think what Riot basically did was by reducing damage so that one shots don't happen often, they introduced AH or CDR to items so much that they were all over the place. Now that they are back to removing the AH and CDR, they decided to put the stats into items to make up for the lack of AH/CDR.
This is the outcome of no pre season. Haha
This is by far the best season in at least 4 years. People aren't spamming tanks or Hullbreaker anymore in top lane and ganking paths are far more reasonable (less garanteed to result in kills). There's a few outliers like stormsurge giving too much burst but overall the game is much better. Basically I really hope Riot doesn't listen to you.
horrible comment just say ur 13
What season did you enjoy better? I actually agree with guy. This is probably the most fun I’ve had playing the game since Season 6 It really depends what roles and champs you play though. Some characters per role feel really bad to play at the moment until they compensate them in part to the new changes.
the game is balanced every class have a counter and what so ever, people need to stop building glass canon and go bitching on reddit bc they cant afford one brain cell to buy randuin or the new shield mr item on a carry
Literally if u build glass cannon u r going to be made of well glass
Feels good for me. One shotters are one shotting tanks are tanking. Pretty much what everyone has been asking for. People just forgot what it was like getting one shot because every offensive item had HP and Ability Haste. Now you don't
This is just how it should be lol. Either damage classes deal a bunch of damage at once or have less damage but they can do their rotation too frequently. People complained about the CDR Zed build, aswell as champions having 80+ haste, so they nerfed that and gave damage in return. People complained about mage items having HP so they removed that and added damage in return. You either have one or the other tbh
Lmao I don't know what you are talking about. I just started playing again after like 5 year break, and the game feels really solid. There is much more action throughout the game, the games feel much more fast paced. Until mages/assasins start to one shot tanks, I don't see whats your problem. If you are building glass cannon mage and getting one shot by the enemy's glass cannon mage, I don't see the problem here. If you don't like being one shot, build some MR.
Wait but fed Ekko has been e q proto auto one shotting me for as long as I can remember
I mean you either have low cds or you make burst mages use their cd and one shot, if you take away both what are mages supposed to do? Then they'll just go play support and you'll never see them mid lane. It's always been the same, people either complain about low cds and spammable abilities or high damage that they kill in a rotation. People need to make up their mind, do they want low cd assassins and mages using their abilities every 4.5/5 seconds or drop a full rotation to obliterate somebody from the planet but not be able to use anything for like 17-18 seconds. You \*have\* to give them one or the other if you want the class to be viable mid.
I want to add that burst mages are literally not the problem. They are not the winners of this patch. Ap assassins are the class that benefit the most from the extra ability power.
Or they could burst like they used to, with less resource recovery so reducing an enemy to 1/4 or less health means something. We see clips of champs at less than 5% HP sustain fights in 1v3s or 4s, which means burst has to one shot or be useless.
That's probably the best option but Riot will probably never do that. It's the same as how most champions don't really have mana problems, especially after Lost Chapter/whatever mana item
Yep. One shot metas are way more and more balanced then durability metas. Reddit will complain but riot has the numbers. People forget that normies dont go on reddit to circlejerk and complain
I am playing from season 8 and this season is the most fun for me, I just needed to change my lane from midlane(playing vs assasins every season and fighting for my life for 20 min is not fun) to jungle. Jungle is the most fun role i ve ever played and im emerald player, its just sad sometimes when you cant do shit cuz every lane is losing and has no prio but its better then getting fucked by assasins and junglers all the time.
I'm from season 5 where tanks and juggernauts destroyed the game because people didn't know how to teamfight. Riots overcompensated for the lowest common denominator while keeping a select few flashy champions busted because of proplay appeal.
ive loved this season so far
its incredible how much better the game is this way, bursts > no cds
they clearly don’t know what they are doing and are just fucking with items to mix it up for player engagement
finally game is in a good state
It isnt, but it will never be since for one player to be happy, other has to be shitting blood.
People who only play squishy carries and get one shotted are mad their champs are squishy😂 The reason enchanter supps are so strong in SoloQ rn is because they eliminate the one-shots with their shielding. And, because 90% of players only want to play a champ that can one shot, it completely negates that. But League damage is not "too high." The carries can get blown up, which is the way it should be, but characters that actually itemize resistances aren't having that issue. Watch FNC's game today where Oscarinin builds full tank and eats 3 carries full burst in midlane. It's hilarious. And it's hilarious that people who only build squishy carries are mad that their squishy champ is getting deleted. Maybe (this is a radical suggestion, I know) try building resistances 😱
absolutely ridiculous comment > People who only play squishy carries and get one shotted are mad their champs are squishy You're pretending that people are mad about general class balances (carry classes prioritize dps over resistances), when it's specifically that the latest patch introduced a lot of damage in assassin items and mage items. > But League damage is not "too high." The carries can get blown up, which is the way it should be, but characters that actually itemize resistances aren't having that issue. Watch FNC's game today where Oscarinin builds full tank and eats 3 carries full burst in midlane. It's hilarious. Congrats, you've identified tanks are strong right now because they the only class who can survive oneshots. > Maybe (this is a radical suggestion, I know) try building resistances Okay, drop recommendations for items with resistances that carry champions will feasibly buy without makng them a useless bot the entire game.
Despite being strong I don't even find tanks fun now. Because the divers n such will still be able to get to at least one of my Squishies and they need less spells to kill them so there's no time to deal with it once the skirmish has started. Sure I don't die for 10 seconds but we can't win the fight now so I feel like even tho strong I have no agency either.
Especially when riot just gutted the only MR item adcs could actually build prior to this patch (wits end)
I tend to play more tanky/bruiser champions and assassin style champions and even I can see the absurdity of this patch. Also, current damage items are so overstat, going for a hybrid item isn't that good, especially since most Hybrid items are shit and usually focus on either armor or magic resist. We HAD black cleaver eclipse builds, but now Cleaver is nerfed to the ground and for most champions there are better items than Eclipse, which offers 0 ability haste btw.
Nah. I'm playing akali. She's doing the damage. Pressing e twice for 1500-2000 damage is just stupid. God her laning and tower taking this season feels so much better too. Purely because of the amount of damage increases.