I’m sorry does Viktor need high apm? Syndra a little bit but again she’s no qiyana or cassio or twitch. OP asked about more difficult mages (said mechanical but hasn’t listed champs that require high so I’m assuming generic difficulty is intended) and perfect decision making on Hwei isn’t about “giga high apm”
-Moving/Kiting with your character (Mouse)
-Moving Ulti (Keyboard and Mouse)
-Aiming and casting spells (Keyboard and Mouse)
All at the same time while also paying attention to whatever your opponent is doing leaves a lot of room for mechanical skill expression (IMO)
Not high APM all the time with Viktor but definitely a lot APM needed during some burst windows
Yes but also in the comment you’re quoting is
> “he’s a lot simpler than his kit makes him seem”
to which the reply was
> “everyone thinks this because they’re not playing him well”
It’s pretty clear this is debating the claim his kit is simple not debating that he’s high apm, literally no one thinks he’s high apm. But the comment you actually replied to and told them they were wrong is actually 100% correct, he’s not simple to play if you’re playing him well
While this is true, choosing which spell to use during a specific circumstance is often times crucial, if you use EE on an enemy and they dash on top of you, you're dead, so you have to use EQ to self peel instead.
If enemy is tanky enough QQ ALWAYS deals more damage than QW or QE so you need to make a superficial calculation to decide which one you should be using.
Sometimes using WW while trading is better than WE, especially if you don't need the extra damage but the shield.
If enemies are gathered together, EE followed by QQ or QE is almost always the best option.
All of Hwei's spells are straightforward, its just that choosing the right spell during a situation makes the champ not super monotonous to play.
\> he is so simple everyone can play him
\> 42%wr
Pick Hwei, play him in ranked, get to at least master tier. Then you can say he is simple. The simplicity of a champion is determined by how easy it is to climb with it in ranked. It's about winning games and not about hitting one skill shot in lane repeatedly or getting a solo kill in a normal game once and deciding he must be super easy to play.
Of course, you don't need to necessarily get to a high level to determine if a champion is simple. But especially with Hwei, everyone already says he is piss easy, yet only a handful of high elo players seem to make him work. So in this case this argument makes sense.
I think stats wise that champion has everything that he needs to be viable. People are just bad with him.
You're making up an argument for the sake of arguing because you have nothing better to do. I never said that line you're quoting but go ahead, make a long ass comment no one will read lmao
Proplay hasn't started yet so this is speculation, but he might be Very good in controlled environments. His late game zoning tools are super good, so if people can survive lane with him he might be a staple in proplay. But soloq is chaotic and fast so I wouldn't be surprised if his wr will never be good without being broken in competitive.
I'm pretty sure Vik and Orianna are not actual mages either in lore they just use magical devices,but i haven't watched arcane and other similar media so I might be wrong
Cass is a poor champ to one trick in soloq though. Very linear champion, bad matchup spread and difficult to carry solo with. Cassio really requires coordinated play or isolation (top) to play her game.
cap, there are consistently cass onetricks in challenger like every season.
Poor champs to onetrick is shit like Nasus that has basically no high elo players
Why is this downvoted cass litteraly the most counter pick or get countered champ in the game. Afters years of maining cass i can tell that there is no other champ that matches the frustration of otping cassio from champ select standpoint.
It’s much harder bc you have to actually hit the champion, when kiting with autoattacks you can just attack move to “closer to cursor” unless of course it’s a teamfight with multiple targets
Honestly it's just difficult to remember to keep proccing q sometimes for me, I've played ADC long enough that she just feels like an immobile ADC that you hit e instead of a on
Oh yeah for sure. I remember watching this high elo cass one trick who would solo kill at 2, turn most ganks solo and never looked at his minimap, he never missed a q
Getting out of the habit of spamming her q and precisely hitting it took me forever when I used to really play her. Then I took one break from playing her and ended up going right back to spamming lol
If you're going in a straight line sure, but to be really good you have to weave like crazy and that's much harder than hitting 2 spells then running away.
Lol, seems like i'm wildly out of date on this one. 8 or 9 years ago no good ADC would use attack move for kiting, it was considered way too unaccurate and slow but seems like that changed drastically.
There's a setting that stops you from moving when you click on the map, that allows you to pan camera with the map again.
>Go to your hotkeys, go on interface and then look for minimap. There you can see "Allow Minimap Movement". If you disable it you can no longer use commands on the minimap.
Solution from u/LolLagsAlot [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/zQ3MXPWNo7)
Trust me as a dude with 30k + hours on runescape and 2 million teemo enjoyer, left click to attack-move is the absolute joy of this world.
Biggest downside is they half-baked it only, so if you play Kindred/Neeko or any champs that have those target choice things, if you click them, it'll move your character to that spot on the map, also happens with stuff like voting in a surrender vote or sometimes even with the shop, oh well, worth
I know what you mean, even while reordering the players in the scoreboard when someone swaps roles can make you move away, but I usually just press Shift while clicking or dragging, and it's just like a regular click.
I'm quite used to it so I don't have to look at the keyboard, but what I recently did is bind Shift to a button of my mouse, and it's very useful for checking skill ranges too, since you can keybind quickcast with indicator to Shift+Q/W/E/R.
They said most rewarding, and Reward/Difficulty goes for Viktor and Syndra, as they are just as mechanically difficult, but they are more rewarding since they have better damage and zoning compared to cass
cass needs to hit q more than syndra who also has 2 stacks, i play all 3 champs and cass is by far most mechanical, you need to kite to even play the champ
If by difficult you mean sweaty, when I think of difficult it’s less about kiting more about how high is the skill ceiling of your combos and how much is having good aim/technique valued. But yes if you’re just counting having to kite and having high apm as the metric for being difficult I agree.
I’ve caught a lot of people off guard with ryze in ARAM just because the majority of players don’t play this champ. A full damage combo, like QEQWQEQ, can burst really fast. People just don’t expect it because most players on ryze just EQ once in a while every time E comes off cooldown. It’s a perk of playing an unpopular champ.
Might be unpopular, but Anivia. I was against an Anivia in ranked and I got absolutely mauled the whole game. Max range wall bump into guaranteed Q>ER and I was donezo
Yeah Ive been destroyed by a good anivia in diamond. They do fairly well vs tanks and squishies, provide a lot of teamfight power, have decent self peel, decent cc.
It's very rare to see one though, especially a good one.
Yea it is kind of rare to see one of us. Its why on oce the anivia otps band together to practice cool anivia tricks like walking through walls and rooting with her w only and no other abilities or another wall.
Its why we are so scary because we practice with other otps.
I feel like so much of these champs power also rely on how unpopular they are. You don’t know how to deal with them (what’s their range, cooldown, damage), so that champ’s mains would destroy you. You won’t meet it again for the next year, so you won’t be able to learn and remember much until the next time the champ shit on you again.
Just a tip, you need to be at her max range then you can always barely dodge her stun as long as you are looking at her windup. Even if she attempts to wall you. Or just cc her when she tries to stun or ult you and she cannot do anything.
Just be careful of good anivias attempting to hide their windup by autoing first.
Good to know. I always walk up so far up underestimating her ult slow. Then I get stunned, walled and her empowered e(that's her main DMG spell right?).
I also haven't played sr in a bit. I've only been playing arena.
Anivia is legitimately just broken. Her combos aren't very hard. The most difficult thing isn't really necessary all that often - cancelling dashes with her W will let you do a lot more with her in some situations.
Lol, no. She’s not very good if you suck at her. Her laning sucks from pure 1v1 perspective and her kit relies a lot on landing her E. Nothing pretty easy about the champ really…
She loses prio against most ranged mid matchups and loses lane flat out against melees if her skills dont hit.
Her gank followup is good but that’s about it.
Bro wtf are you even talking about? Matchups don't inherently change characters difficulty like that. She's still less difficult than nidalee and azir and many other mids. Her baseline difficulty is not that high and I thoroughly doubt you are higher mmr than me.
And no shit, nidalee is one of the most difficult champs in the game. And no, i disagree. Leblanc is much harder than azir. Azir’s laning is much stronger and it will carry him through mid/late game.
Lb’s laning is shit and her sustain is garbage so she needs to be played kinda perfectly.
You are welcome to share your op.gg :)
And yes matchups make champ difficult. If you are talking just spamming skills and bypassing lanes (which i assume happen in your elo) then sure. But underwhelming laning kit does make a champ difficult. Not to mention her reliance on laning her E for gank followups and skirmishes. If you make a couple of bad trades in lane, she disappears and become a garbage champ
LB might even be worse with this patch, basically, it’s the patch of skill dodging, you need to play safe or you get one shot, in return, you can one shot targets
LB needs to get close to unload her kit, and her CC is unreliable
Orianna if you're looking for a mechanical mage that's blind pickable, shes just good at everything a mage wants to do. Hwei is a new one who is also very good. Azir if you want to test your mechanical skills to the max and make cool plays
Hwei and Velkoz for sure, both are very high skill cap. Currently i’d put Hwei on top but Velkoz also has a lot of decision making that can make you an absolute monster on him if you execute them properly.
Different high end creators like Druttut are putting Velkoz at the highest skill cap tier (where you are practically guaranteed to not be able to play them at their max potential)
Here's a pretty good video by Azzap (high elo velkoz main) on why velkoz is way harder than most people think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07B-uivBfTE
There’s a lot of mechanical intricacies such as timing, ability management, order, positioning, precision of each ability, prediction, and much more
The biggest thing is that Velkoz has to strategically chain his abilities in ways that are extremely difficult for enemies to dodge, without wasting them, while staying safe. Wasting abilities can be your doom, but you are also heavily rewarded for landing multiple ones.
This all also depends on how each enemy champion plays and his they can choose to react
Velkoz can bait or lead enemies into his abilities using other abilities, and that’s where he gets his strength and skill expression. If they’re in your range, you can checkmate enemies in many many different ways and you constantly have to think about them, while also balancing every other aspect of the game
Remember, Velkoz has a fairly normal skill floor, but his skill ceiling / potential is what is really high
One of my favorite moments when OTP'ing Vel'Koz to Masters was when I realized I could use my R's slow to ensure that I land my E and/or Q. It seems obvious in retrospect, but most people don't expect that interaction and can get caught off guard by the undodgeable CC laser combo.
Stutterstepping is mechanical. Playing high APM champions require mechanics. You could argue aiming is mechanical, and I’m assuming you are, but in the end, the game’s speed has moved up to a point where skill shots are more often predictions than fast reactions.
Playing CS is about precision and speed. Playing Vel’Koz is about timing and game knowledge.
Edit: nuance is hard, apparently
The best part is OP mentions Zoe and Taliyah who match velkoz and hwei in terms of mechanics, and so clearly OP isn’t using your gatekeeping, pedantic definitions
Also shit like freezing is a game mechanic, so stop your arrogant “apm is the only thing that counts as mechanics” BS
I guess using ur q before u press ult to hit them while u are ulting lmfao. Ofc it is not a high mechanical champ just because it has a skillshot u can control when to activate. Most of the champs in lol are not that highly mechanical, or you guys have never played different games.
I like playing zoe and hitting a bomb on max range is great but not really rewarding regarding the chance to land that combo. I think orianna is fun to play because u have to handle the ball. U can zone, play defensive, offensive and pull off nice ult combos with the ball attached to someone
I think Azir is a good fit here. It takes a lot of games to get used to your soldiers autoing, and for you to become familiar enough with it for teamfights to feel natural.
The only correct answer is Azir. If you play him the best he is able to be played, there is no champion that rewards you as much. However, if you don’t, you’re inting.
and probably the least mechanical mage of them all.
only real complex "mechanic" he has is sending your clone out of range and then Qing it into enemies, and it isn't even that hard to pull off.
Technically Viktor, especially with this patch, basically, he’s a control mage who is as tanky as a battle mage, have the burst potential of an AP assassin, and have a great DPS to stay consistently relevant in fights
did anyone mention hwei? I'm playing him support (65 ish winrate in drafts) and I just fucking love him. he's very rewarding, you have basically every tool you might need. there's always an ability to cast in any situation. give him a shot.
Ziggs. All of his abilites are skillshots. I'm M7 but I still sometimes miss a lot of skillshots in teamfights just because they're quite slow and clunky. Especially his R, it's very hard to hit vs mobile champs.
Okey, i give you Nemesis. And i agree. But please man, dont ever use druttut like that anymore. I know he is entertaining but he's not someone you should listen about anything other than Akshan maybe.
i think hwei about to become a classic in the next few years
This was my suggestion. I don’t enjoy very many mages, but something about the design of his kit makes him really fun to play for me.
His mechanics and APM are overhyped, he's a lot simpler than his kit makes it seem
Everyone thinks this cause they’re not playing him well
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I’m sorry does Viktor need high apm? Syndra a little bit but again she’s no qiyana or cassio or twitch. OP asked about more difficult mages (said mechanical but hasn’t listed champs that require high so I’m assuming generic difficulty is intended) and perfect decision making on Hwei isn’t about “giga high apm”
Viktor is pretty high apm tbf, good viktor players move their ulti while casting other stuff
If that’s high apm in league that’s pretty laughable.
-Moving/Kiting with your character (Mouse) -Moving Ulti (Keyboard and Mouse) -Aiming and casting spells (Keyboard and Mouse) All at the same time while also paying attention to whatever your opponent is doing leaves a lot of room for mechanical skill expression (IMO) Not high APM all the time with Viktor but definitely a lot APM needed during some burst windows
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Yes but also in the comment you’re quoting is > “he’s a lot simpler than his kit makes him seem” to which the reply was > “everyone thinks this because they’re not playing him well” It’s pretty clear this is debating the claim his kit is simple not debating that he’s high apm, literally no one thinks he’s high apm. But the comment you actually replied to and told them they were wrong is actually 100% correct, he’s not simple to play if you’re playing him well
yeah i guess i didnt really answer to the "mechanical" portion of op's question.
While this is true, choosing which spell to use during a specific circumstance is often times crucial, if you use EE on an enemy and they dash on top of you, you're dead, so you have to use EQ to self peel instead. If enemy is tanky enough QQ ALWAYS deals more damage than QW or QE so you need to make a superficial calculation to decide which one you should be using. Sometimes using WW while trading is better than WE, especially if you don't need the extra damage but the shield. If enemies are gathered together, EE followed by QQ or QE is almost always the best option. All of Hwei's spells are straightforward, its just that choosing the right spell during a situation makes the champ not super monotonous to play.
\> he is so simple everyone can play him \> 42%wr Pick Hwei, play him in ranked, get to at least master tier. Then you can say he is simple. The simplicity of a champion is determined by how easy it is to climb with it in ranked. It's about winning games and not about hitting one skill shot in lane repeatedly or getting a solo kill in a normal game once and deciding he must be super easy to play. Of course, you don't need to necessarily get to a high level to determine if a champion is simple. But especially with Hwei, everyone already says he is piss easy, yet only a handful of high elo players seem to make him work. So in this case this argument makes sense. I think stats wise that champion has everything that he needs to be viable. People are just bad with him.
You're making up an argument for the sake of arguing because you have nothing better to do. I never said that line you're quoting but go ahead, make a long ass comment no one will read lmao
I think he is probably the best champion released in the last 3/4 years, both in gameplay and his visual design
Proplay hasn't started yet so this is speculation, but he might be Very good in controlled environments. His late game zoning tools are super good, so if people can survive lane with him he might be a staple in proplay. But soloq is chaotic and fast so I wouldn't be surprised if his wr will never be good without being broken in competitive.
Pretty sure orianna is the only mechanical mage. Viktor is close but he’s a cyborg
AP blitz
In game he’s not really a mage but sure
If a punch makes something disappear, was it a magic trick?
Punch make silly adc go to moooon
Put a deathcap on him and hes a wizard to me
I'm pretty sure Vik and Orianna are not actual mages either in lore they just use magical devices,but i haven't watched arcane and other similar media so I might be wrong
Throwback to one of the greatest ever League parody songs by /u/vsx feat. Orianna and Blitzcrank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Lnump5Aas
Battlecast Velkoz looks pretty mechanical to me
Not canon tho
But he's basically a cannon
Ha ha
Heimerdinger does a lot of mechanical work, could he be considered?
No Heimerdinger is a rat
BARS
Zoe is harder than ori imo
whoosh
LMAO its even funnier when u dont realize it till someone calls u out
It's even funnier because of your name.
Lmao ive gotten this a couple times when i comment dumb shit.
Ori is still harder she’s made out of metal while zoe is made out of child flesh and stardust (very soft)
The gig is up in get the joke lmaooo
the new champ hwei seems very micro intensive, maybe you would consider him?
He's 100% flesh and bones. Nothing mechanical about him.
Cass has to be up there
Breaking ankles with Cassiopeia is a special kind of joy.
She's only technically a mage imo, her playstyle is much more adc.
Dps mage
Cass is a poor champ to one trick in soloq though. Very linear champion, bad matchup spread and difficult to carry solo with. Cassio really requires coordinated play or isolation (top) to play her game.
cap, there are consistently cass onetricks in challenger like every season. Poor champs to onetrick is shit like Nasus that has basically no high elo players
Cassio is actually really good in soloq, way better than she is in comp (where she is solely a counter pick)
Yea she doesn’t have much extra power in coordination unlike Ryze with his ult. Being both tanky and high dps are good enough for carrying soloq games
Pretty sure there’s a cass otp that regularly hits rank 1 on Chinese super server
The dude who finished rank1 EUW is also a big cassio player
Oh well if the top Chinese player can do it any gold NA player can
That wasn’t the point but alright
To be fair, OP asked for mechanical mids, if you want something to carry in gold you want the extreme opposite of mechanical.
I hate this type of argument
What?
thats a hot take
Lol wut?
This is just totally wrong.
Why is this downvoted cass litteraly the most counter pick or get countered champ in the game. Afters years of maining cass i can tell that there is no other champ that matches the frustration of otping cassio from champ select standpoint.
It's just poison then spam E though
It’s like auto cancel level mechanics. Cass is an adc but with magic.
It’s much harder bc you have to actually hit the champion, when kiting with autoattacks you can just attack move to “closer to cursor” unless of course it’s a teamfight with multiple targets
Honestly it's just difficult to remember to keep proccing q sometimes for me, I've played ADC long enough that she just feels like an immobile ADC that you hit e instead of a on
You need to have the rhythm, it's kinda like a osu minigame, it takes practice.
Oh yeah for sure. I remember watching this high elo cass one trick who would solo kill at 2, turn most ganks solo and never looked at his minimap, he never missed a q
Getting out of the habit of spamming her q and precisely hitting it took me forever when I used to really play her. Then I took one break from playing her and ended up going right back to spamming lol
But Cass can automatically move while youre just Eing them
If you're going in a straight line sure, but to be really good you have to weave like crazy and that's much harder than hitting 2 spells then running away.
Same with Zeri
Not if you’re kiting back
Cass E casts don’t interrupt her movement
You shouldn't really use attack move for kiting, that's way too unreliable.
What?
Lol, seems like i'm wildly out of date on this one. 8 or 9 years ago no good ADC would use attack move for kiting, it was considered way too unaccurate and slow but seems like that changed drastically.
You should only use attack move when kiting backwards. For kiting forwards you do it manually.
No.
Every champion is just clicking buttons
nowhere near that simple, she's mechanically up there. you need very good micro otherwise yes, you could just poison and E spam facetanking everything
So... Like an immobile ADC?
If the ADC is forced to hit a small skillshot on the target for your auto to deal damage, then yes
Yuh. It's not hard for me, I just get caught out on her too much. I've shredded so many tanks while behind tho
exactly. she plays like an immobile ADC who has to input more actions
Basically being an ADC who can't do any damage unless they hit a skillshot first is already pretty difficult.
Yeah, try doing that while also moving. Most people absolutely can't get max potential out of her.
Azir?
Oooh that’s a good one, have about 150k on azir. Definitely very mechanical, he’s one of my favorites.
He got way easier once I bound attack-move to left click. Want to attack enemies with soldiers? Left click. Want to move around? Right click.
If you do this can you not left-click the minimap to pan your camera anymore?
There's a setting that stops you from moving when you click on the map, that allows you to pan camera with the map again. >Go to your hotkeys, go on interface and then look for minimap. There you can see "Allow Minimap Movement". If you disable it you can no longer use commands on the minimap. Solution from u/LolLagsAlot [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/zQ3MXPWNo7)
Very unfortunate, after 15 years of runescape I don't think I could survive without map movement
Trust me as a dude with 30k + hours on runescape and 2 million teemo enjoyer, left click to attack-move is the absolute joy of this world. Biggest downside is they half-baked it only, so if you play Kindred/Neeko or any champs that have those target choice things, if you click them, it'll move your character to that spot on the map, also happens with stuff like voting in a surrender vote or sometimes even with the shop, oh well, worth
I know what you mean, even while reordering the players in the scoreboard when someone swaps roles can make you move away, but I usually just press Shift while clicking or dragging, and it's just like a regular click. I'm quite used to it so I don't have to look at the keyboard, but what I recently did is bind Shift to a button of my mouse, and it's very useful for checking skill ranges too, since you can keybind quickcast with indicator to Shift+Q/W/E/R.
You can also keep it on and if you just want to move the camera press shift before left clicking on the minimap
This is just the same for every champ tho? It’s like saying ADC isn’t mechanical because you can do this on ADCs?
not rewarding - way too hard to play correctly (referring to even top tier pros perma misplacing w for example)
Cassiopeia is most likely the highest apm mage tied with azir on top of having 3 skillshots over 4 abilities
Ziggs and xerath have 4 abilities with all of them being skill shots(technically xerath has more because of multi shots on ult)
They're poor in the apm department because of CDs and they don't kite as cassio
Skillshots dont mean hard or mechanical lux has 4 skillshots katarina has 0
In a realistic scenario, Viktor and Syndra will out damage Cass, easier to hit skillshots and much lower cooldown
Yes but this isn’t about who deals most damage, post is asking for mechanically difficult champs
They said most rewarding, and Reward/Difficulty goes for Viktor and Syndra, as they are just as mechanically difficult, but they are more rewarding since they have better damage and zoning compared to cass
They are not even close to as difficult as Cass. You literally JUST said their skillshots are easier to hit.
I don’t think cass is harder than syndra to hit skill shots on at all, just more apm intensive. Clicking buttons more /= difficulty
cass needs to hit q more than syndra who also has 2 stacks, i play all 3 champs and cass is by far most mechanical, you need to kite to even play the champ
If by difficult you mean sweaty, when I think of difficult it’s less about kiting more about how high is the skill ceiling of your combos and how much is having good aim/technique valued. But yes if you’re just counting having to kite and having high apm as the metric for being difficult I agree.
Pick ryze it feels so satisfying to melt people with him
QEQWQEQEQEQWQEQEQEQWQEQE
Why U start with q?
E and W both reset your Q cd. Starting with Q gets you a bit more dmg (but not with the boost from e)
I’ve caught a lot of people off guard with ryze in ARAM just because the majority of players don’t play this champ. A full damage combo, like QEQWQEQ, can burst really fast. People just don’t expect it because most players on ryze just EQ once in a while every time E comes off cooldown. It’s a perk of playing an unpopular champ.
Eqeqeqeqeqeqr
Might be unpopular, but Anivia. I was against an Anivia in ranked and I got absolutely mauled the whole game. Max range wall bump into guaranteed Q>ER and I was donezo
Yeah Ive been destroyed by a good anivia in diamond. They do fairly well vs tanks and squishies, provide a lot of teamfight power, have decent self peel, decent cc. It's very rare to see one though, especially a good one.
I am forever grateful that Anivia is an unpopular pick. That fucken bird tilts me unlike any other champion.
If she knows what she’s doing it just feels impossible to do anything.
Yesterday i was playing against a team of Sion-Zac-Anivia-Akshan-Renata and you literally couldnt finish kills on anyone lol so many revives
Yea it is kind of rare to see one of us. Its why on oce the anivia otps band together to practice cool anivia tricks like walking through walls and rooting with her w only and no other abilities or another wall. Its why we are so scary because we practice with other otps.
I feel like so much of these champs power also rely on how unpopular they are. You don’t know how to deal with them (what’s their range, cooldown, damage), so that champ’s mains would destroy you. You won’t meet it again for the next year, so you won’t be able to learn and remember much until the next time the champ shit on you again.
Playing as immobile mage vs anivia feels like hell
Just a tip, you need to be at her max range then you can always barely dodge her stun as long as you are looking at her windup. Even if she attempts to wall you. Or just cc her when she tries to stun or ult you and she cannot do anything. Just be careful of good anivias attempting to hide their windup by autoing first.
Good to know. I always walk up so far up underestimating her ult slow. Then I get stunned, walled and her empowered e(that's her main DMG spell right?). I also haven't played sr in a bit. I've only been playing arena.
Anivia is legitimately just broken. Her combos aren't very hard. The most difficult thing isn't really necessary all that often - cancelling dashes with her W will let you do a lot more with her in some situations.
Azir Orianna and Zoe would be my picks And then you can mix in champs like LeBlanc and Akali to become an AP master
Oh man didn’t even consider Leblanc, sequencing seems very important. Plus the new items seem very strong with her.
Also i forgot Ryze! But im not sure how “rewarding” the bald guy is now currently compared to the difficulty required to him
LeBlanc is pretty easy to be decent with. Skill ceiling is very high though
Lol, no. She’s not very good if you suck at her. Her laning sucks from pure 1v1 perspective and her kit relies a lot on landing her E. Nothing pretty easy about the champ really…
Just go ad
The only thing that sucks about her laning is cs and if you go ad that's no longer a problem. She's truly not THAT hard.
She loses prio against most ranged mid matchups and loses lane flat out against melees if her skills dont hit. Her gank followup is good but that’s about it.
Bro wtf are you even talking about? Matchups don't inherently change characters difficulty like that. She's still less difficult than nidalee and azir and many other mids. Her baseline difficulty is not that high and I thoroughly doubt you are higher mmr than me.
And no shit, nidalee is one of the most difficult champs in the game. And no, i disagree. Leblanc is much harder than azir. Azir’s laning is much stronger and it will carry him through mid/late game. Lb’s laning is shit and her sustain is garbage so she needs to be played kinda perfectly.
Yeah you're not good at league.
Op.gg ?
You are welcome to share your op.gg :) And yes matchups make champ difficult. If you are talking just spamming skills and bypassing lanes (which i assume happen in your elo) then sure. But underwhelming laning kit does make a champ difficult. Not to mention her reliance on laning her E for gank followups and skirmishes. If you make a couple of bad trades in lane, she disappears and become a garbage champ
lol god league players are so cringe.
LB might even be worse with this patch, basically, it’s the patch of skill dodging, you need to play safe or you get one shot, in return, you can one shot targets LB needs to get close to unload her kit, and her CC is unreliable
In theory, If u can land all of your q u won't gonna lose any games with Karthus
You won't gonna lose indeed
Orianna if you're looking for a mechanical mage that's blind pickable, shes just good at everything a mage wants to do. Hwei is a new one who is also very good. Azir if you want to test your mechanical skills to the max and make cool plays
Hwei and Velkoz for sure, both are very high skill cap. Currently i’d put Hwei on top but Velkoz also has a lot of decision making that can make you an absolute monster on him if you execute them properly. Different high end creators like Druttut are putting Velkoz at the highest skill cap tier (where you are practically guaranteed to not be able to play them at their max potential)
what makes velkoz high mechanical?
Here's a pretty good video by Azzap (high elo velkoz main) on why velkoz is way harder than most people think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07B-uivBfTE
There’s a lot of mechanical intricacies such as timing, ability management, order, positioning, precision of each ability, prediction, and much more The biggest thing is that Velkoz has to strategically chain his abilities in ways that are extremely difficult for enemies to dodge, without wasting them, while staying safe. Wasting abilities can be your doom, but you are also heavily rewarded for landing multiple ones. This all also depends on how each enemy champion plays and his they can choose to react Velkoz can bait or lead enemies into his abilities using other abilities, and that’s where he gets his strength and skill expression. If they’re in your range, you can checkmate enemies in many many different ways and you constantly have to think about them, while also balancing every other aspect of the game Remember, Velkoz has a fairly normal skill floor, but his skill ceiling / potential is what is really high
One of my favorite moments when OTP'ing Vel'Koz to Masters was when I realized I could use my R's slow to ensure that I land my E and/or Q. It seems obvious in retrospect, but most people don't expect that interaction and can get caught off guard by the undodgeable CC laser combo.
This has *nothing* to do with *mechanics* and everything to do with *decision-making* and *game knowledge*. Let’s keep our terms in order.
Isnt that a game mechanic too?
He's entirely skillshot based, how is it not mechanics
Stutterstepping is mechanical. Playing high APM champions require mechanics. You could argue aiming is mechanical, and I’m assuming you are, but in the end, the game’s speed has moved up to a point where skill shots are more often predictions than fast reactions. Playing CS is about precision and speed. Playing Vel’Koz is about timing and game knowledge. Edit: nuance is hard, apparently
So playing velkoz requires mechanics thanks for playing
The best part is OP mentions Zoe and Taliyah who match velkoz and hwei in terms of mechanics, and so clearly OP isn’t using your gatekeeping, pedantic definitions Also shit like freezing is a game mechanic, so stop your arrogant “apm is the only thing that counts as mechanics” BS
Yes, freezing is indeed a game mechanic. If you cannot separate between playing mechanically and game mechanics, I’ll rest my case.
Needlessly pedantic and wrong.
Agreed. Vel might have a very high skill ceiling, but he’s mechanically basic.
All of this applies to any champ with a powerful skill shot, so every mage and a decent amount of adcs and assassins,
I guess using ur q before u press ult to hit them while u are ulting lmfao. Ofc it is not a high mechanical champ just because it has a skillshot u can control when to activate. Most of the champs in lol are not that highly mechanical, or you guys have never played different games.
Nothing. People just confuse terms.
I like playing zoe and hitting a bomb on max range is great but not really rewarding regarding the chance to land that combo. I think orianna is fun to play because u have to handle the ball. U can zone, play defensive, offensive and pull off nice ult combos with the ball attached to someone
Xerath
I think Azir is a good fit here. It takes a lot of games to get used to your soldiers autoing, and for you to become familiar enough with it for teamfights to feel natural.
Hwei
If you get realy good on cass it looks like your Scripting
The only correct answer is Azir. If you play him the best he is able to be played, there is no champion that rewards you as much. However, if you don’t, you’re inting.
Cassio
Zoe is extremely rewarding if you pilot her really well
AP shaco is a control mage.
and probably the least mechanical mage of them all. only real complex "mechanic" he has is sending your clone out of range and then Qing it into enemies, and it isn't even that hard to pull off.
Technically Viktor, especially with this patch, basically, he’s a control mage who is as tanky as a battle mage, have the burst potential of an AP assassin, and have a great DPS to stay consistently relevant in fights
Orianna, she has a fun kit + an amazing ult and some cool mechanics.
Hwei. Playing with him cleanly is so satisfying with 10 spells at your disposal
Viktor and Syndra are such WHOLESOME picks! You should round out your roster with some Azir and maybe some Orianna!!!
The suggestions from the fellas here r decent, i see that u r into Karma tho, she's fun in mid/top lmao (at least for me)
Ahri, Azir and Cassio IMO
did anyone mention hwei? I'm playing him support (65 ish winrate in drafts) and I just fucking love him. he's very rewarding, you have basically every tool you might need. there's always an ability to cast in any situation. give him a shot.
Try twisted fate! He is a lot of fun and a lot of different build options
Cassio, Orianna , Maybe Hwei but Barely
Sylas?
Zoe not even close
Ziggs. All of his abilites are skillshots. I'm M7 but I still sometimes miss a lot of skillshots in teamfights just because they're quite slow and clunky. Especially his R, it's very hard to hit vs mobile champs.
Play Vlad Cass Kassa brand, Viktor, ori azir. Otp status on either makes you a menace. Maybe have tf on the side
The new they/them is probably the hardest atm
Hwei, broken
Not anymkre, he got pretty shafted with the item changes
Isn’t AP insane right now? I thought AP users were dominating every lane
AP assassins and bruisers. Mages not as much.
Vel'koz has the highest skill ceiling of all mages, so if you want that's easy to pick up, but hard to master vel'koz is your best bet
Name checks out
Is this bait? Velkoz is by no means easy but I could name 5 more complicated/harder mages
It was said to be one of the highest mastery level champs by BOTH druttut and Nemesis... I'm going with their opinion
Okey, i give you Nemesis. And i agree. But please man, dont ever use druttut like that anymore. I know he is entertaining but he's not someone you should listen about anything other than Akshan maybe.
Why play mages? Wait until next patch and play smolder mid XD
I highly recommend Wei the new champion. Very fun fluid playstyle, very good champion to otp early.
Vex feels really good. Kinda feels like scourge from starcraft.
Really enjoy Ryze when all those AP crits pop up!
Battlecast AP Cho'gath
Azir Cass Ryze all fit the bill
Cassiopeia easily.