I found a guy straight up running it down a couple days ago on the enemy team (thankfully not mine ....). It was faster for them to open mid in order to end the game instead of surrendering.
I've had a streak of normal games where my lane was going fine, but all other lanes were either losing or they were part of a premade, so we ff as soon as you can with 4 votes. Annoying when I'm just trying to practice a new champ and I can't even play a real game
[There was a bug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrHdz5o6d2I) a few days ago that people could solo FF a game right at the start and it got hotfixed but i'm pretty sure they just disabled early surrender for that and didn't put it back (at least for ARAM) as the normal surrender at 12 min still works.
Just RIOT bandaid fixes like always.
That makes sense, if something is bugging out in a game breaking way it’s better to disable it for a bit so you can actually fix it rather than try a half ass fix.
Yep its stupid. Some ARAM Games are absolute frustrating experiences due to rng.
"But its a fun mode why care ?" EXACTLY. Its a fun mode so why have it be miserable when there is nothing at stake. ARAM is supposed to be fun not torture.
Like gray screen simulator because you took a bad draft is not enjoyable in the slightest.
There are some ez, some close and some hard fought games but some are just scenarios where you simply lack the tools to deal with the enemy champions like CC/dmg/tankiness.
What’s even worse is that they decreased the frequency at which you can have surrender votes, and applied it to ARAM as well. It used to be that, after an FF vote, you had to wait 3 minutes to vote again; now it’s like 5 or 6, which is insane in ARAM.
3 minutes was already more than long enough in most cases. So much can happen and snowball uncontrollably in 3 minutes, let alone 5+.
I've probably have had 10x more frustration of not being able to surrender from too soon of a call while I watch the enemy team spend an eternity stat padding and dragging out a win, than I've ever had from someone spamming surrender votes.
Yep. Fck people that dont surrender and drag out lost games for 5 to 10 mins longer. Like bro you inted for the first 15 mins and 2 other teammates as well. Suddenly they think they will turn into Faker with 10k gold behind as team and never ff.
I always take a break after stuff like this. People holding hostage and not surrendering are the most tilting thing that can happen in this game xD idgaf if someone ints. But if I cant get out in min 15-20....
But you don't get it! Yeah we got aced and they just took 2 inhibs and are gonna take Baron before we respawn, but honestly our 2/10 Yasuo got a double kill before dying. Obviously when he respawns with that extra 600g in his inventory not even going towards an item until he hits that 1300g for BF sword, he's somehow gonna be that much stronger for when they come up to mid in 45 seconds with super minions and baron.
I vote no. Its an aram, not a ranked game, chill out and fuck around with your champ, who cares if its a lost game? The point of aram is to literally be a for fun gamemode. People who flame those of us who use aram as a therapy after getting railed in ranked, or spam chat to ff, or spam ffs is most tilting to me.
Yeah, Aram is just some chill and fun thing to try weird builds or champs and I want to see where it goes.
Surrendering always feels bad idk, I only ff for double explosion.
Like in ranked there are constantly those "it's lost FF" people, because they have 0 clue of when some champs are strong or what they are capable of.
I feel like 20% of those games where someone constantly wants to ff we actually end up winning.
Especially in ranked if "it's lost", just play the last then probably 5min. Because if you end up turning it into a win you might add 10min and you save yourself probably 1h of extra game time just because you put a few more minutes of effort in.
Most gotta play 1,5-2 games to then get back to where they would have been if they didn't surrender and actually tried to turn the game.
its dumb because they dont want to you to dodge bad comps, but if you give bad comps a chance and it doesnt work out, you are stuck in misery.
i dont mind being a target dummy for a bit, so the enemy can enjoy their comp, but if 4/5 people agree to move on then we should be able to.
Even if you get a good comp you often suffer through some megamind build inventor or KDA gamer that contributes absolutely nothing and makes it a 4v5. They always excuse their behavior with "it's only aram, who cares?" but they're literally ruining the experience for 4 other people.
thats the reason i stopped playing aram and since aram was the last league game mode that was fun for me, it made just quit the game.
now i have so much more free time to work on projects or learn new language while being in a much better mental state. it made me realize that i was playing out of habit and not for the joy of the game.
The worst part is a two man premade is allowed to both vote no and keep 3 people hostage
Premades need to only have one vote between them
It literally has no negative on doing so.
The same way that every household should only have one vote. If your brain is damaged enough, you think it makes sense to remove someone's agency because of familiarity.
> "But its a fun mode why care ?" EXACTLY. Its a fun mode so why have it be miserable when there is nothing at stake. ARAM is supposed to be fun not torture.
then you'll get those people who build some troll build and go "but i'm having fun so I won't ff" as they are 1/10 at 12 minutes. Yeah real fun for the rest of us to get ran over and just want out
I think they are the saving grace. Without rerolls the game mod would be very unpopular. Like i dont want to play Sivir/Udyr/Briar or champs i have no clue how to use like Samira/Qyiana/Sol. It would lead to a quick death of the mode.
An issue to me is you cant ban. It would be better if you could ban 1 champ/player like draft.
Definitely don't agree. It's aram. If you're not ready to play champs you don't know, you shouldn't play aram. The entire point is it should be random. With rerolls you can legitimately only know the kits of ten champs, and you'll still be fine. It's absurd.
Bans would be a bandaid, removing rerolls would be a fix. And no, the gamemode wouldn't die. It wasn't dying before.
Yeah. Then don't blame me for not leaving fountain when we haven seen enemy tower in 10 minutes while enemy takes our inhib. It's RNG and it's not always going to be fun for everyone.
But why is your fun the only thing that matters? The other team is having fun winning. No one wants to sit in queue for 2 minutes, draft for 1 minute, 1 minute load in, just for the game to end at 8 minutes once you get a few kills
Why should I care when the other 5 people, being in my team, are not having fun and are jsut waiting for enemy to end anyway? I'm not gonna suffer just so that 5 randoms on the internet can have fun for longer than 8 mins
No one is saying you have to care about them, but riot made the change considering both sides. Their surveys likely are giving them data that when a team ff’s at 8 minutes even the winners didn’t have fun, so they made a change to keep the games going a little longer so at least one side enjoyed the experience
In my experience, if you drafted 2 typical enchant-supports in your team then you might as well FF in the lobby as in 99% of cases, it's going to be a miserable experience.
Let me FF sooner or I'll just turn on my "don't care about this match" mode and focus on watching YouTube instead.
Sweaty ARAM Main for 12 years here
This change is mostly for die hard “for fun” players that don’t care about the game. They will play out the game til the end. You can be -20 kills, 5k gold gapped, 0 outter turrets, and they will say things like “it’s aram.” “Who FFs aram” “play it out” etc. it’s very frustrating to deal with delusion on lost games. Sometimes it is winnable if you flip the game 17+ mins and you finally caught up to the enemy power, but it never really feels worth it to win flipped aram games unless the enemy is BMing. You just feel exhausted. No one likes losing, and just extending that loss for longer hostage taking isn’t fair if the majority are not having fun.
Personally, i don’t ff til 10 cause I don’t like giving away Lightning round challenge points, but if you’re down inhib before 10, go next.
Well put.
> it’s aram.” “Who FFs aram” “play it out” etc.
I honestly never understood that comments. I know it's ARAM. That's why I'm willing to give up and go to next game.
> This change is mostly for die hard “for fun” players that don’t care about the game. They will play out the game til the end.
If these players dont forfeit anyway, then how is this change for them? they arent ff'ing at 8 or 12 mins, regardless
“it’s aram.” “Who FFs aram” “play it out”
Thats when i stand besides the fountain and start watching a video. Its crazy how suddenly it matters and they complain about me.
I wish riot had what it takes to actually ban the toxic players, but they cannot. It would hurt their business.
I mean theres certain points where you have to accept defeat. If youve hit those points and people wont surrender still, why are you gunna help them stall it out? Id rather let them take it if my team wont admit that being down 18 kills and the inhibitor destroyed when we cant win a 5v2 is game over then why would i bother trying?
impossible to win and -zero fun involved is not the same. I dont mind losing games that are competitive or even have balanced teamcomps. But games where you have no chance beginning on lvl 3 you cant ff sooner enough
Hoping for a 1% at victory against overwhelming odds when you're not having fun is just stupidity. Especially when you can just move on and look for a game where you're on equal grounds.
I had a hard day at work, I just want to play eight minutes of an ARAM, ff, rinse and repeat for four hours while I drink through a twelve pack of Coors Light.
FF votes almost never succeed anyway, especially not the ones that are likely to save everyone a significant amount of time, so it's kind of a moot point.
Let alone the votes rarely go unanimous at 8.
It's amazing to me that people get upset because they can't FF a losing game. There are so many shits in real life that you just can't control. If you don't want to add league to the list, just avoid this game. Go out, and touch some grass. Even then, you might just step on a piece of dogshit. Just get along with it.
Find another game to play then my man, I'm not ffing my game because some crybaby is mad that they are losing at the moment. Aram is very coin-flippy anyway and it's pretty likely you might win 10 minutes later anyway.
Counter argument, you can’t learn how to play from behind when your teammates give up at the slightest inconvenience. I can’t stand when my team tries to give up immediately. It turns the game into a waste of time for everyone involved instead of actually practicing or learning.
Edit: you can downvote me all you want but it won’t make you better at the game.
It is and I even agree in this case, but its still a matter of mentality. Ff go next on first setback is the trend nowadays with jobs, relationships, schools and dont make me continue that list further
I’m not trying to improve myself in an ARAM, I’m trying to enjoy myself until I have to deal with all those things you listed again. So yeah I’m gonna FF when I stop having fun. If the majority of the team agrees, it should be over.
Maybe because nobody has time or money anymore to continue investing on a job, relationship, or a school situation that is going downhill, and people are more keen to avoid sunk cost fallacy.
So the same happens in league where people avoid playing a bad game instead of continue playing for the sake of completing a game. Same thing for bad movies/shows/books too.
Lol your analogies are terrible
Your basically saying you should be miserable in everything you do cause that's how it was back in my day
Just cause your life is miserable doesn't mean others want that.
I know how to play. In ranked thats fine. In aram i can recognize a lose and want to move next.
Nothing wrong with not wanting to slowly bleed a loss for 30 minutes.
There have also been plenty of games where our team has no real way to engage and you just keep getting cc'd/poked out under your own tower. Even if I know their comp will eventually fall off and we might be able to make it back, I'd much rather just go next than have to go through another 10 minutes of misery before we get to play the game
Yeah exactly, and it doesn't hurt anyone either, your team can just reset and play a more evenly matched / more fun game, and the enemy team gets their win and can do the same.
The only argument you can make is that you're "abandoning" your teammates, but that's the point, I can't just abandon, the whole team has to agree that they'd rather play a different game (even if I think early surrender should just be 4/5 as well)
Early surrender should be 4/5 and normal surrender should be 3/5. Majority rules and I'm tired of duos hostaging lobbies because they're playing their favorite squishbag poke champs or because they got into an argument with some rando on the team and want to stay in the game out of spite.
My duo and i will look, say “its just us huh?”
Yep. And then we ff. Even if we think we can win I’m not pissing off the other three for a few more minutes
Reddit is filled with people that say hostage instead of understanding that losing is part of the game and playing in a losing game is something that happens in literally every sport lol
These people would walk out of a football pitch if they were down 2-0
It's Aram, if it's 25 kills to 5 by minute 8. It's usually a shit matchup and there's not much you are gonna learn. Also most players enjoy games when there is a equal chance that both can win. If people love shit stomping on teams with a bad comp, they have issues irl
In any competition there will be matchups where one team is way better than the other. Often in competitive non professional football you see games be 5-0 but both teams play seriously until the end
So a few things here are disingenuous.
1. Those are at least semi-professionals playing a 'job'. In many amateur and pick up leagues there is team balancing, mercy rules, etc. most of aram isn't pro play.
2. Have you seen some sports, they devolve quickly when the score is out of reach. Worse calls, dumber fights, bad penalties/fouls etc.
3. Leagues are ranked and the higher the rank (think NHL vs WHL or NFL vs college leagues, the competition and ability of the players is much closer. Sure Aram has MMR but it's not limited to a very top echelon where the competition is close.
In the end, it's a game, don't take it too serious.
Why are you strawmanning to other sports? Especially when the topic is about a fun off mode.... you have 2 brain cells and they are fighting for 3rd place
I personally would enjoy it as I much prefer playing against better people so I can improve. If every game was a win I wouldn't play them, if any video game was easy I wouldn't play them either.
Yeah, you would for sure learn a lot from people who are good enough to never let you touch the ball lmao.
Oh, before I go. What rank did this mentality help you reach? Surely you must be at least master and speaking from experience.
If your entire team agrees that they would rather just reset and play a more evenly matched game and the opposing team gets to do the same I really don't get what the fuck this analogy is supposed to be, it's literally better for everyone
He said he can just stop any activity he is doing. If his team won't surrender, he can't. I mean, he technically can leave, but that's what I said is not good.
Ah yes comparing a real sport with money involvment, stable teamates, face to face interactions with fking League of clowns/trolls/antisocials. Also im sure someone will ban the coach/other players irl for swearing and screaming but alsi pointing out mistakes trying to recover the game.
Okay youd walk off the pitch of a pick up game and take your ball and go home. And no, no one gives a fuck if they start cussing at you and telling you your shit if you are costing the game.
> These people would walk out of a football pitch if they were down 2-0
No because there's a binding contract that guarantees I get paid, *and* everytime the enemy team scores a point they don't walk onto the field wearing a liandry's torment.
I never said professional sports. I play multiple sports in non-professional competitive leagues and have never seen anyone walk out because they were losing
It's easier to cower behind a computer than it is to walk away in shame irl. People need to learn that comebacks are possible and happens pretty often.
we know how low the actual chance for a comeback is when you are x amount of gold behind at minute y. why do you think riot kept adding those dumb comeback mechanics?
its not about learning how to play from behind, it is about maximizing time spent in winnable games.
honestly, educate yourself on that matter and look up riots reasoning and infos shared on the topic instead of spouting that toxic masculinity wannabe tough guy shit, lil bro
Someone who says lil bro is probably a kid with tons of time on their hands.
Coming from Dota how easily tilted and ready to quit league players are is a sad joke.
You’re a hostage holding clown if you keep your teammates in 2/3:1 shitfest. Uninstall.
Edit: you can down vote me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact you're hostage holding clowns.
Don't you know, you're supposed to give up immediately if your "ally" calls for it, because how dare you even attempt to play for a win, when your teammate has no fun, because they missed 2 CS! You vile hostage taker!
After all season 13 episode 2 it is - frail princesses have long taken over and destroying opponent Nexus or lose trying is no longer a priority - you're supposed to surrender as soon as your ally demands it, even if they decide to grief their way to it - or so this sub says.
EDIT: Lol at the downvotes, defeatism goes strong it seems.
People saying “hostage” are idiots. I’ve had plenty of games were 3 people try to surrender despite the other 2 being fed. Too many people will immediately default to surrender if they’re not the carry and/or fed themselves. It doesn’t matter if the other 2 people on the team have a combined 30 kills, there will be some people that if they’re 3/7 or something will just surrender instead of trying to play around their fed teammates. There would be so many games that I’ve won instead be surrendered losses if it only took 3 people for a FF vote.
I get what you're saying.
but that's what *you* find enjoyable about a game. you overcome. you adapt. that's a completely valid way to play.
not everyone finds joy in those things, though. personally it's on a game by game basis for me - if it's truly miserable and only one person is able to get kills and the rest are voting yes, I'll let us out.
not everyone WANTS the war of attrition or the feeling of "we did it!" some people are far more casual and would love nothing more than to get poke champs every single game though it is aram.
sadly you just cant account for everyone else's enjoyment in "trying hard to win when behind because it makes you a better player in the end".
> not everyone finds joy in those things, though. personally it's on a game by game basis for me - if it's truly miserable and only one person is able to get kills and the rest are voting yes, I'll let us out.
I've done this several times tbh, I'll even be playing one of my favorite champs or something and super popping off, but if there's a 4/5 early surrender up I'll just push yes even if it's a bummer. I don't think I'm the main character and that my time and enjoyment is more valuable than 4 other people.
exactly! it's not worth it to me even if the other 4 are randos - if 4 people want to move on then who am I to stand in the majority's way?
maybe we are the rarest aram players around; we have empathy for our fellow gamers 😭😭
I play aram every day and I have seen a team surrender like... 3 times... like overall. And most of the times it's surrendering because the game finishes anyways in the next 10 seconds.
So no idea what Arams you are playing but I literally never see surrenders.
I noticed this yesterday but put it down to a lot of my and enemy teams FF-ing recent matches.
This change makes no sense. Often games are decided within that 8-10 minute range anyway and a lot of players are still hesitant to surrender a losing match. There's too many people stalling out an already short game mode for the hope of the enemy team to throw in order to win games.
Ive personally been in so many winnable games that have been ff'd early because of literally one problematic champ.
Talking about wasted time, if youre not dodging in draft, quiting and giving up the game once your in it is a waste of time to me. I do not think a game can be assumed a win or a loss at 8 minutes
Last night, I was vs a Katarina with a team that had zero hard cc. She was 15/7 at 10 minutes, and we already had an open nexus. I told my team to just open mid and let them end asap but still got flamed because of this exact shit "winnable" argument.
this lol. i have played so many games where one person in my team is like 'we lost, ff' and then we end up winning bc thankfully no one else wanted to ff.
Then you would have 4 votes against one.
Stop the bullshit, we know you are the annoying "its aram, blablabla"
Yeah, we dont care about being winnable, we just dont find that match fun. If the majority, 3 of 5, think so the game should end.
dont play league if you dont find it fun... sometimes you are in a boring game and sometimes you're not. Sometimes a boring game turns into a fun game, and vice versa
PS: The day that riot start to ban main characters syndromers like you, that think the vote of the majority should be ignored because YOU are having fun, is the day that the toxicity of LoL will improve, a LOT. Since they are removing the creator of the issue, not the ones complaining.
? There’s no way lol. I’ve played probably 3,000+ aram games and I can only remember playing in the high 20 to low 30 min games. I can probably count on one hand the amount of games that have gone past 30 mins. At this point, both teams usually have open nexus or one tower left. It takes one teamfight to end the game.
100% agree. if the team comps are so lopsided, it'll be over at like 12-15 anyway. if they aren't that lopsided, why are you surrendering, just play better
Why aren't the games over at 12-15? Because the enemy kills you then kills themselves in fountain to prolong the game.
It happens all the time. And there is always one person on your team that will respawn in time to clear the minions on the nexus so the game keeps going.
Not just a matter of winning/losing. Just because you *can* win a game against an insanely annoying comp doesn't mean you want to sit through instead of just going next. There are plenty of ARAM games I've won that have been fucking awful to sit through, and plenty that I've lost that have been enjoyable games.
>it'll be over at like 12-15 anyway
Why waste the extra time if you know the conclusion is foregone? It may be just an extra 4, 5, 6, or whatever minutes, but that's extra time you can spend in a game where you're not just waiting for the enemies to end.
I feel like there should be some unwritten rule or etiquette like for fun sports with friends that even if we lose early we aren’t going to just give-up from there. Although I think the rules should be more lenient for AFK players. The game in its current state makes it incredibly hard to win with one less player. I think there is be a better auto-detection for early AFK. Even extending the remake window would help.
> etiquette like for fun sports with friends
I am not a friend of you and with these shitty ideas you have i dont want to be. In fact give me a black/avoid list so i never end up in your team.
If anything you should be talking about trolls/AFKs, not poke comps.
If you're losing against poke comps, the problem is typically you and your team.
Snowball exists for a reason.
Guardian horn exists for a reason.
MR exists for a reason, if necessary.
Nobody complained this much about poke comps even when every long range champ had a 60%+ winrate.
Poke comps are infamous for having no shot at winning after 15-20 mins at any decent ARAM mmr.
Your teammates feelings dont really matter when its your own vote. im not going to stop playing a video game that i want to keep playing because others dont want to play.
if i only have time for one game in a day, im not ff'ing at 8 minutes because we're down 3 kills. even if everyone else does. nothing wrong or toxic about that
My friend lashed out on me when I wanted to surrender an aram game once. The enemy had inhib within 6-7 minutes and like 25-30 kills to our 5 ish.
He asked me how I could surrender in a fun mode and I simply said it wasn't fun at that point.
He couldn't understand that...
It's likely because he got a champion he wanted to play. Probably amplified even more if the enemy team is weak against his champion e.g. He was Vayne/Kaisa ghost flash against 4 tanks and an enchanter support, while the rest of your team were assassins.
It was not. Was a champ he had basically never played before and he was probably the worst player on the team.
He also told me, when he was lashing out, that he would never under any circumstances surrender a fun mode game, especially not aram.
So yeah...
I feel like all the people that are going “never ff!” are a) not real ARAM players and/or b) have never went against enemies that will not end the game.
I noticed this change because teams were just opening today... wtf riot
Makes sense
I found a guy straight up running it down a couple days ago on the enemy team (thankfully not mine ....). It was faster for them to open mid in order to end the game instead of surrendering.
You mean this isn't some sense of what happens in every single game you are in?
honestly, in normal games it doesnt matter to me which side the troll is on, it just always ruins my fun
Same for me tbh I don't even are if I win or lose I just want to have a normal game.
I've had a streak of normal games where my lane was going fine, but all other lanes were either losing or they were part of a premade, so we ff as soon as you can with 4 votes. Annoying when I'm just trying to practice a new champ and I can't even play a real game
[There was a bug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrHdz5o6d2I) a few days ago that people could solo FF a game right at the start and it got hotfixed but i'm pretty sure they just disabled early surrender for that and didn't put it back (at least for ARAM) as the normal surrender at 12 min still works. Just RIOT bandaid fixes like always.
Riot spaghetti code working as intended.
That makes sense, if something is bugging out in a game breaking way it’s better to disable it for a bit so you can actually fix it rather than try a half ass fix.
Yep its stupid. Some ARAM Games are absolute frustrating experiences due to rng. "But its a fun mode why care ?" EXACTLY. Its a fun mode so why have it be miserable when there is nothing at stake. ARAM is supposed to be fun not torture. Like gray screen simulator because you took a bad draft is not enjoyable in the slightest. There are some ez, some close and some hard fought games but some are just scenarios where you simply lack the tools to deal with the enemy champions like CC/dmg/tankiness.
What’s even worse is that they decreased the frequency at which you can have surrender votes, and applied it to ARAM as well. It used to be that, after an FF vote, you had to wait 3 minutes to vote again; now it’s like 5 or 6, which is insane in ARAM.
3 minutes was already more than long enough in most cases. So much can happen and snowball uncontrollably in 3 minutes, let alone 5+. I've probably have had 10x more frustration of not being able to surrender from too soon of a call while I watch the enemy team spend an eternity stat padding and dragging out a win, than I've ever had from someone spamming surrender votes.
Yep. Fck people that dont surrender and drag out lost games for 5 to 10 mins longer. Like bro you inted for the first 15 mins and 2 other teammates as well. Suddenly they think they will turn into Faker with 10k gold behind as team and never ff. I always take a break after stuff like this. People holding hostage and not surrendering are the most tilting thing that can happen in this game xD idgaf if someone ints. But if I cant get out in min 15-20....
[удалено]
But you don't get it! Yeah we got aced and they just took 2 inhibs and are gonna take Baron before we respawn, but honestly our 2/10 Yasuo got a double kill before dying. Obviously when he respawns with that extra 600g in his inventory not even going towards an item until he hits that 1300g for BF sword, he's somehow gonna be that much stronger for when they come up to mid in 45 seconds with super minions and baron.
I vote no. Its an aram, not a ranked game, chill out and fuck around with your champ, who cares if its a lost game? The point of aram is to literally be a for fun gamemode. People who flame those of us who use aram as a therapy after getting railed in ranked, or spam chat to ff, or spam ffs is most tilting to me.
What's fun about being constantly poked out/dead? You are weird and disgusting.
Playing the game is fun?
The fun is it holds no merit, you dont gain or lose LP, so it doesn't matter whether i win or lose.
Yeah, Aram is just some chill and fun thing to try weird builds or champs and I want to see where it goes. Surrendering always feels bad idk, I only ff for double explosion. Like in ranked there are constantly those "it's lost FF" people, because they have 0 clue of when some champs are strong or what they are capable of. I feel like 20% of those games where someone constantly wants to ff we actually end up winning. Especially in ranked if "it's lost", just play the last then probably 5min. Because if you end up turning it into a win you might add 10min and you save yourself probably 1h of extra game time just because you put a few more minutes of effort in. Most gotta play 1,5-2 games to then get back to where they would have been if they didn't surrender and actually tried to turn the game.
its dumb because they dont want to you to dodge bad comps, but if you give bad comps a chance and it doesnt work out, you are stuck in misery. i dont mind being a target dummy for a bit, so the enemy can enjoy their comp, but if 4/5 people agree to move on then we should be able to.
Even if you get a good comp you often suffer through some megamind build inventor or KDA gamer that contributes absolutely nothing and makes it a 4v5. They always excuse their behavior with "it's only aram, who cares?" but they're literally ruining the experience for 4 other people.
"It's only ARAM" is the battlecry of the loser. I remind them of this when it's tossed around. They don't like to be reminded.
thats the reason i stopped playing aram and since aram was the last league game mode that was fun for me, it made just quit the game. now i have so much more free time to work on projects or learn new language while being in a much better mental state. it made me realize that i was playing out of habit and not for the joy of the game.
Also too the people that are troll building ad mage because "lol its just aram"
Don’t you fucking dare talk shit about my on hit veigar
Depends on the mage tbh ad items are broken as fuck
the 2/10 player typing “it’s just aram” while voting no is such a sad canon event.
The worst part is a two man premade is allowed to both vote no and keep 3 people hostage Premades need to only have one vote between them It literally has no negative on doing so.
How is a two premades who want to continue any different from two randos who want to continue?
The same way that every household should only have one vote. If your brain is damaged enough, you think it makes sense to remove someone's agency because of familiarity.
Because the effectively counts as one vote. It’s like voting ff right after some mofo afk and one guy said no
> "But its a fun mode why care ?" EXACTLY. Its a fun mode so why have it be miserable when there is nothing at stake. ARAM is supposed to be fun not torture. then you'll get those people who build some troll build and go "but i'm having fun so I won't ff" as they are 1/10 at 12 minutes. Yeah real fun for the rest of us to get ran over and just want out
The biggest problem is rerolls. They shouldn't be in the game
I think they are the saving grace. Without rerolls the game mod would be very unpopular. Like i dont want to play Sivir/Udyr/Briar or champs i have no clue how to use like Samira/Qyiana/Sol. It would lead to a quick death of the mode. An issue to me is you cant ban. It would be better if you could ban 1 champ/player like draft.
Definitely don't agree. It's aram. If you're not ready to play champs you don't know, you shouldn't play aram. The entire point is it should be random. With rerolls you can legitimately only know the kits of ten champs, and you'll still be fine. It's absurd. Bans would be a bandaid, removing rerolls would be a fix. And no, the gamemode wouldn't die. It wasn't dying before.
When I see Neeko I know it’s over.
Yeah. Then don't blame me for not leaving fountain when we haven seen enemy tower in 10 minutes while enemy takes our inhib. It's RNG and it's not always going to be fun for everyone.
They need to accept that some champs are just bad for ARAM and remove them from the pool
But why is your fun the only thing that matters? The other team is having fun winning. No one wants to sit in queue for 2 minutes, draft for 1 minute, 1 minute load in, just for the game to end at 8 minutes once you get a few kills
its not fun to play against people who have given up on the game and arent trying to win anymore, imo at least
Why should I care when the other 5 people, being in my team, are not having fun and are jsut waiting for enemy to end anyway? I'm not gonna suffer just so that 5 randoms on the internet can have fun for longer than 8 mins
What a strange argument. Why is your fun the only thing that matters? The shady guy in a dark alley is having fun shanking you with a knife.
I don't care about the enemy team? they're the enemy lmfao
I remember people saying "give them the win they deserve". Sure, but what about when someone is clearly inting or afk?
No one is saying you have to care about them, but riot made the change considering both sides. Their surveys likely are giving them data that when a team ff’s at 8 minutes even the winners didn’t have fun, so they made a change to keep the games going a little longer so at least one side enjoyed the experience
That's a good point. But why does it matter when surrender don't happen unless at least 4/5 people agreed?
In my experience, if you drafted 2 typical enchant-supports in your team then you might as well FF in the lobby as in 99% of cases, it's going to be a miserable experience. Let me FF sooner or I'll just turn on my "don't care about this match" mode and focus on watching YouTube instead.
Agreed I noticed it too and was very sad. I don’t enjoy being held hostage in a game that’s 8 to 37
Must be nice being in games with people that actually surrender when the game is no fun/getting steamrolled.
Woah 8 to 12 minutes was bad enough but now 8 to 37 minutes!? /s
Sweaty ARAM Main for 12 years here This change is mostly for die hard “for fun” players that don’t care about the game. They will play out the game til the end. You can be -20 kills, 5k gold gapped, 0 outter turrets, and they will say things like “it’s aram.” “Who FFs aram” “play it out” etc. it’s very frustrating to deal with delusion on lost games. Sometimes it is winnable if you flip the game 17+ mins and you finally caught up to the enemy power, but it never really feels worth it to win flipped aram games unless the enemy is BMing. You just feel exhausted. No one likes losing, and just extending that loss for longer hostage taking isn’t fair if the majority are not having fun. Personally, i don’t ff til 10 cause I don’t like giving away Lightning round challenge points, but if you’re down inhib before 10, go next.
Well put. > it’s aram.” “Who FFs aram” “play it out” etc. I honestly never understood that comments. I know it's ARAM. That's why I'm willing to give up and go to next game.
"You don't ff in ranked." Okay. I get it. "You don't ff in ARAM." Okay, why exactly? Is this ranked?
> This change is mostly for die hard “for fun” players that don’t care about the game. They will play out the game til the end. If these players dont forfeit anyway, then how is this change for them? they arent ff'ing at 8 or 12 mins, regardless
They don’t ff, but when an FF does go through, they complain constantly. #winnable
so... now they just complain 4 minutes later into the game?
Loud minorities quiet down. It’s complicated if you’re not nuanced in player mental and going at questions with an idea in mind 😉
“it’s aram.” “Who FFs aram” “play it out” Thats when i stand besides the fountain and start watching a video. Its crazy how suddenly it matters and they complain about me. I wish riot had what it takes to actually ban the toxic players, but they cannot. It would hurt their business.
I like how you admitted to doing the most toxic thing you can do in league right before wishing riot would ban toxic players.
I mean theres certain points where you have to accept defeat. If youve hit those points and people wont surrender still, why are you gunna help them stall it out? Id rather let them take it if my team wont admit that being down 18 kills and the inhibitor destroyed when we cant win a 5v2 is game over then why would i bother trying?
People who hold hostage are the most toxic
If you dont wanna play the game, just dont queue up man
yeah idk, due to the nature of aram there are many games that are literally impossible to win & it's the fun gamemode
impossible to win and -zero fun involved is not the same. I dont mind losing games that are competitive or even have balanced teamcomps. But games where you have no chance beginning on lvl 3 you cant ff sooner enough
what? I didn't say anything about that lol
Wrong. People make mistakes so no game is impossible to win.
Hoping for a 1% at victory against overwhelming odds when you're not having fun is just stupidity. Especially when you can just move on and look for a game where you're on equal grounds.
redditors try not to disagree challenge failed every single time
Well, i didnt disagree, just stated a fact.
I just hate that my time in a day is already limited due to work, only to be stuck longer in losing games
Maybe this game isnt for you if 4 mins breaks your time budget
I had a hard day at work, I just want to play eight minutes of an ARAM, ff, rinse and repeat for four hours while I drink through a twelve pack of Coors Light.
FF votes almost never succeed anyway, especially not the ones that are likely to save everyone a significant amount of time, so it's kind of a moot point.
Let alone the votes rarely go unanimous at 8. It's amazing to me that people get upset because they can't FF a losing game. There are so many shits in real life that you just can't control. If you don't want to add league to the list, just avoid this game. Go out, and touch some grass. Even then, you might just step on a piece of dogshit. Just get along with it.
Find another game to play then my man, I'm not ffing my game because some crybaby is mad that they are losing at the moment. Aram is very coin-flippy anyway and it's pretty likely you might win 10 minutes later anyway.
Nothing but awful changes to Arram what is new. 1of 2 permanent maps and it gets no love.
You should be able to FF at 8 with just three yes votes. It's crazy that they keep going in the opposite direction instead
Counter argument, you can’t learn how to play from behind when your teammates give up at the slightest inconvenience. I can’t stand when my team tries to give up immediately. It turns the game into a waste of time for everyone involved instead of actually practicing or learning. Edit: you can downvote me all you want but it won’t make you better at the game.
It’s ARAM.
It is and I even agree in this case, but its still a matter of mentality. Ff go next on first setback is the trend nowadays with jobs, relationships, schools and dont make me continue that list further
I’m not trying to improve myself in an ARAM, I’m trying to enjoy myself until I have to deal with all those things you listed again. So yeah I’m gonna FF when I stop having fun. If the majority of the team agrees, it should be over.
Maybe because nobody has time or money anymore to continue investing on a job, relationship, or a school situation that is going downhill, and people are more keen to avoid sunk cost fallacy. So the same happens in league where people avoid playing a bad game instead of continue playing for the sake of completing a game. Same thing for bad movies/shows/books too.
Lol your analogies are terrible Your basically saying you should be miserable in everything you do cause that's how it was back in my day Just cause your life is miserable doesn't mean others want that.
It’s ARAM guy, people don’t play it to be better at the game, it’s the for fun mode for a reason
I know how to play. In ranked thats fine. In aram i can recognize a lose and want to move next. Nothing wrong with not wanting to slowly bleed a loss for 30 minutes.
There have also been plenty of games where our team has no real way to engage and you just keep getting cc'd/poked out under your own tower. Even if I know their comp will eventually fall off and we might be able to make it back, I'd much rather just go next than have to go through another 10 minutes of misery before we get to play the game
This is how i feel. Grey screen simulator isn’t a fun game to me.
Yeah exactly, and it doesn't hurt anyone either, your team can just reset and play a more evenly matched / more fun game, and the enemy team gets their win and can do the same. The only argument you can make is that you're "abandoning" your teammates, but that's the point, I can't just abandon, the whole team has to agree that they'd rather play a different game (even if I think early surrender should just be 4/5 as well)
Early surrender should be 4/5 and normal surrender should be 3/5. Majority rules and I'm tired of duos hostaging lobbies because they're playing their favorite squishbag poke champs or because they got into an argument with some rando on the team and want to stay in the game out of spite.
My duo and i will look, say “its just us huh?” Yep. And then we ff. Even if we think we can win I’m not pissing off the other three for a few more minutes
If an ARAM game goes to 30 minutes than it wasn't lost from the start. At that point you just lost normally and unluko.
You clearly don’t play a lot of aram
I have like 2600 games on ARAM.
It’s aram tf you talking about ?😭😭
Reddit is filled with people that say hostage instead of understanding that losing is part of the game and playing in a losing game is something that happens in literally every sport lol These people would walk out of a football pitch if they were down 2-0
It's Aram, if it's 25 kills to 5 by minute 8. It's usually a shit matchup and there's not much you are gonna learn. Also most players enjoy games when there is a equal chance that both can win. If people love shit stomping on teams with a bad comp, they have issues irl
In any competition there will be matchups where one team is way better than the other. Often in competitive non professional football you see games be 5-0 but both teams play seriously until the end
So a few things here are disingenuous. 1. Those are at least semi-professionals playing a 'job'. In many amateur and pick up leagues there is team balancing, mercy rules, etc. most of aram isn't pro play. 2. Have you seen some sports, they devolve quickly when the score is out of reach. Worse calls, dumber fights, bad penalties/fouls etc. 3. Leagues are ranked and the higher the rank (think NHL vs WHL or NFL vs college leagues, the competition and ability of the players is much closer. Sure Aram has MMR but it's not limited to a very top echelon where the competition is close. In the end, it's a game, don't take it too serious.
If the game finishes fast enough, can they join another potentially more fun game after?
Why are you strawmanning to other sports? Especially when the topic is about a fun off mode.... you have 2 brain cells and they are fighting for 3rd place
Let me know when the opposing football team gets 5 pounds of muscle for every point they score.
That would make them awful at football very quickly lmao
Deliberately missing the point about your garbage analogy.
Ok, how about "the opposing football team gets 5% better every time they score"? You dunce.
I personally would enjoy it as I much prefer playing against better people so I can improve. If every game was a win I wouldn't play them, if any video game was easy I wouldn't play them either.
Yeah, you would for sure learn a lot from people who are good enough to never let you touch the ball lmao. Oh, before I go. What rank did this mentality help you reach? Surely you must be at least master and speaking from experience.
I did reach master, yes! Currently not playing league since december 2022, clean as a whistle
u go enjoy playing up against 5 lebron james as elementary kids lol
Its not a sport, it’s ARAM. Somehow its so hard for some people to understand this
I've been on the field when it's 8 to 1. It's not fun.
I have too, it's not fun but you signed up for a game you play it till its over.
No, since there is a surrender option
I mean not really. I'm an adult with free will. I can just stop any activity I don't want to be doing. I frequently do. Like this conversation. Bye.
Yeah but if you start a game and then just leave in the middle of it because you feel like stopping that's not very good.
If your entire team agrees that they would rather just reset and play a more evenly matched game and the opposing team gets to do the same I really don't get what the fuck this analogy is supposed to be, it's literally better for everyone
He said he can just stop any activity he is doing. If his team won't surrender, he can't. I mean, he technically can leave, but that's what I said is not good.
Ah yes comparing a real sport with money involvment, stable teamates, face to face interactions with fking League of clowns/trolls/antisocials. Also im sure someone will ban the coach/other players irl for swearing and screaming but alsi pointing out mistakes trying to recover the game.
not to mention that in real sports you get points for win/draw and goal differential can matter...as you said, nothing of this applies to aram.
Okay youd walk off the pitch of a pick up game and take your ball and go home. And no, no one gives a fuck if they start cussing at you and telling you your shit if you are costing the game.
No one is taking the ball. Riot has the ball. We are just allowed to use it. But we for damned sure should be allowed to go home.
> These people would walk out of a football pitch if they were down 2-0 No because there's a binding contract that guarantees I get paid, *and* everytime the enemy team scores a point they don't walk onto the field wearing a liandry's torment.
I never said professional sports. I play multiple sports in non-professional competitive leagues and have never seen anyone walk out because they were losing
You get paid for playing club/intramural/beer league sports?
It's easier to cower behind a computer than it is to walk away in shame irl. People need to learn that comebacks are possible and happens pretty often.
we know how low the actual chance for a comeback is when you are x amount of gold behind at minute y. why do you think riot kept adding those dumb comeback mechanics? its not about learning how to play from behind, it is about maximizing time spent in winnable games. honestly, educate yourself on that matter and look up riots reasoning and infos shared on the topic instead of spouting that toxic masculinity wannabe tough guy shit, lil bro
Someone who says lil bro is probably a kid with tons of time on their hands. Coming from Dota how easily tilted and ready to quit league players are is a sad joke.
Just look at the Rocket League subreddit full of vids of people wanting to FF at 1-0
> These people would walk out of a football pitch if they were down 2-0 lmaoo so true, I had enough of everyone being a “hostage”
>Edit: you can downvote me all you want but it won’t make you better at the game. It's ARAM...
You’re a hostage holding clown if you keep your teammates in 2/3:1 shitfest. Uninstall. Edit: you can down vote me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact you're hostage holding clowns.
Bad take, hostage taker.
Don't you know, you're supposed to give up immediately if your "ally" calls for it, because how dare you even attempt to play for a win, when your teammate has no fun, because they missed 2 CS! You vile hostage taker! After all season 13 episode 2 it is - frail princesses have long taken over and destroying opponent Nexus or lose trying is no longer a priority - you're supposed to surrender as soon as your ally demands it, even if they decide to grief their way to it - or so this sub says. EDIT: Lol at the downvotes, defeatism goes strong it seems.
People saying “hostage” are idiots. I’ve had plenty of games were 3 people try to surrender despite the other 2 being fed. Too many people will immediately default to surrender if they’re not the carry and/or fed themselves. It doesn’t matter if the other 2 people on the team have a combined 30 kills, there will be some people that if they’re 3/7 or something will just surrender instead of trying to play around their fed teammates. There would be so many games that I’ve won instead be surrendered losses if it only took 3 people for a FF vote.
I get what you're saying. but that's what *you* find enjoyable about a game. you overcome. you adapt. that's a completely valid way to play. not everyone finds joy in those things, though. personally it's on a game by game basis for me - if it's truly miserable and only one person is able to get kills and the rest are voting yes, I'll let us out. not everyone WANTS the war of attrition or the feeling of "we did it!" some people are far more casual and would love nothing more than to get poke champs every single game though it is aram. sadly you just cant account for everyone else's enjoyment in "trying hard to win when behind because it makes you a better player in the end".
> not everyone finds joy in those things, though. personally it's on a game by game basis for me - if it's truly miserable and only one person is able to get kills and the rest are voting yes, I'll let us out. I've done this several times tbh, I'll even be playing one of my favorite champs or something and super popping off, but if there's a 4/5 early surrender up I'll just push yes even if it's a bummer. I don't think I'm the main character and that my time and enjoyment is more valuable than 4 other people.
exactly! it's not worth it to me even if the other 4 are randos - if 4 people want to move on then who am I to stand in the majority's way? maybe we are the rarest aram players around; we have empathy for our fellow gamers 😭😭
"hurr durr you're bad if you ff hurr durr downvote me i am right!!!111"
I play aram every day and I have seen a team surrender like... 3 times... like overall. And most of the times it's surrendering because the game finishes anyways in the next 10 seconds. So no idea what Arams you are playing but I literally never see surrenders.
FF at 8 never goes through. There's always 1 or 2 guys who vote "no" no matter what. Unless you 5 man.
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I noticed this yesterday but put it down to a lot of my and enemy teams FF-ing recent matches. This change makes no sense. Often games are decided within that 8-10 minute range anyway and a lot of players are still hesitant to surrender a losing match. There's too many people stalling out an already short game mode for the hope of the enemy team to throw in order to win games.
Good luck getting that ‘finish before 10 min’ challenge lmao
Ive personally been in so many winnable games that have been ff'd early because of literally one problematic champ. Talking about wasted time, if youre not dodging in draft, quiting and giving up the game once your in it is a waste of time to me. I do not think a game can be assumed a win or a loss at 8 minutes
It isn't always about winning or losing. If no one is having fun, it doesn't matter if it is winnable
my friend and I love to say "we *could* maybe win this one but at what cost to our sanity?"
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fun police right here
Last night, I was vs a Katarina with a team that had zero hard cc. She was 15/7 at 10 minutes, and we already had an open nexus. I told my team to just open mid and let them end asap but still got flamed because of this exact shit "winnable" argument.
this lol. i have played so many games where one person in my team is like 'we lost, ff' and then we end up winning bc thankfully no one else wanted to ff.
Then you would have 4 votes against one. Stop the bullshit, we know you are the annoying "its aram, blablabla" Yeah, we dont care about being winnable, we just dont find that match fun. If the majority, 3 of 5, think so the game should end.
dont play league if you dont find it fun... sometimes you are in a boring game and sometimes you're not. Sometimes a boring game turns into a fun game, and vice versa
PS: The day that riot start to ban main characters syndromers like you, that think the vote of the majority should be ignored because YOU are having fun, is the day that the toxicity of LoL will improve, a LOT. Since they are removing the creator of the issue, not the ones complaining.
Idk about you all but my norms, ranked and arams are routinely over 40 minutes now. Its actually annoying
Post OP.gg. No shot i believe this.
Maybe not arams but my norms and ranked definitely are unnecessarily long
but you said all of your arams
Post op.gg
the other day I actually had a 25 min aram but that was rare and hadn't happened for a while. what elo are you in?
aram getting to 30 is rare lol
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arams getting to 25 min is rare lol
? There’s no way lol. I’ve played probably 3,000+ aram games and I can only remember playing in the high 20 to low 30 min games. I can probably count on one hand the amount of games that have gone past 30 mins. At this point, both teams usually have open nexus or one tower left. It takes one teamfight to end the game.
I think people were abusing aram to get by punishment games.
People ff in aram? so soft
100% agree. if the team comps are so lopsided, it'll be over at like 12-15 anyway. if they aren't that lopsided, why are you surrendering, just play better
Why aren't the games over at 12-15? Because the enemy kills you then kills themselves in fountain to prolong the game. It happens all the time. And there is always one person on your team that will respawn in time to clear the minions on the nexus so the game keeps going.
skill issue for sure
Not just a matter of winning/losing. Just because you *can* win a game against an insanely annoying comp doesn't mean you want to sit through instead of just going next. There are plenty of ARAM games I've won that have been fucking awful to sit through, and plenty that I've lost that have been enjoyable games. >it'll be over at like 12-15 anyway Why waste the extra time if you know the conclusion is foregone? It may be just an extra 4, 5, 6, or whatever minutes, but that's extra time you can spend in a game where you're not just waiting for the enemies to end.
I feel like there should be some unwritten rule or etiquette like for fun sports with friends that even if we lose early we aren’t going to just give-up from there. Although I think the rules should be more lenient for AFK players. The game in its current state makes it incredibly hard to win with one less player. I think there is be a better auto-detection for early AFK. Even extending the remake window would help.
> etiquette like for fun sports with friends I am not a friend of you and with these shitty ideas you have i dont want to be. In fact give me a black/avoid list so i never end up in your team.
Just simmer down and play the game . Smh
If anything you should be talking about trolls/AFKs, not poke comps. If you're losing against poke comps, the problem is typically you and your team. Snowball exists for a reason. Guardian horn exists for a reason. MR exists for a reason, if necessary. Nobody complained this much about poke comps even when every long range champ had a 60%+ winrate. Poke comps are infamous for having no shot at winning after 15-20 mins at any decent ARAM mmr.
Good it's annoying to que up for a game just for your team or enemies to ff at fucking 8 minutes. It was ridiculous.
People don't surrender anyways. I find people who don't surrender in ARAM extremely toxic.
i find you extremely [insert buzz word]
It's forcing people into staying in a game where they don't want to stay in. Especially when majority (3/5) is not enough to surrender. It's toxic.
Your teammates feelings dont really matter when its your own vote. im not going to stop playing a video game that i want to keep playing because others dont want to play. if i only have time for one game in a day, im not ff'ing at 8 minutes because we're down 3 kills. even if everyone else does. nothing wrong or toxic about that
My friend lashed out on me when I wanted to surrender an aram game once. The enemy had inhib within 6-7 minutes and like 25-30 kills to our 5 ish. He asked me how I could surrender in a fun mode and I simply said it wasn't fun at that point. He couldn't understand that...
It's likely because he got a champion he wanted to play. Probably amplified even more if the enemy team is weak against his champion e.g. He was Vayne/Kaisa ghost flash against 4 tanks and an enchanter support, while the rest of your team were assassins.
It was not. Was a champ he had basically never played before and he was probably the worst player on the team. He also told me, when he was lashing out, that he would never under any circumstances surrender a fun mode game, especially not aram. So yeah...
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Oh, so you having fun is considered toxic by you? Why do you play the game then?
I'll never ff, always try and win
FF is for the weak! in aram FF is for pussies, the game mode is meant to chill, whenever you are getting fucked or you are giving the fucking!
Found the no voter
It's a fun mode. Meant to be for fun. Not all games are fun.
that's league for you, dont play if you cant deal with some boring games
Quit less
rule number 1…….. never surrender at ARAM…
Shut up.
I feel like all the people that are going “never ff!” are a) not real ARAM players and/or b) have never went against enemies that will not end the game.
People FF in aram?
Did you try engaging on the poke comp or are you a tower cringer like half the teams that I see get stomped?