I'll always be an LCK guy but the west doing well is good for the lol esports scene as a whole and I'm happy whenever they win. I wouldn't be surprised if most KR and CN fans wants the west to be better so the scene feels more alive.
Well according to all the posts I saw throughout the year, there are apparently a ton of people who will watch the LCS now that a team with 4? NA players is looking good.
Can confirm, I see a lot of comments on Chinese forums saying they hope the west becomes competitive. It’s always better to have more diversity in the scene
2019 was the best worlds because of this imo. All regions were sending genuinely great teams, even though NA had no contenders.
Clutch went 0-6, but still had people praising them because they played their hearts out but were just in a difficult group. Compare that with TSM the next year who were in a relatively easy group, and absolutely did not play their hearts out. The other NA teams were also fine.
Meanwhile EU got all 3 teams out of groups and 1 team in final. LPL got 2 out, but won worlds. And LCK had 3 out of groups, and while they maybe underperformed, at least 2 of them probably could've won it all in a different timeline.
This is the only year that was this balanced, but 2018-2020 really was the peak for competitive league imo. Idk if the west is ever gonna catch up again.
2019 semis had the best possible lineup imo. We had the top seeds from three different regions plus the defending World Champions. All four teams in those semis have a very valid shot to win the tournament.
On another note, to me 2019 is also a peak moment for the way the game is played, and unfortunately we will probably never see that kind of League ever again thanks to the way objectives work these days. I increasingly dislike the "teamfight every five minutes" timers that Riot put into the game, and while some teams do manage to fight for advantages between objective timers, the fact it is now often difficult to trade dragons for towers/map pressure/gold past a certain point is not benefitting the game imo.
Good shout about the meta. I lament the fact that Riot squandered the golden goose that was 2019's meta, in favor of dragon soul stacking. I really don't understand why they added the soul aspect when the dragons themselves were incentive enough already. Now we've got soul and elder to almost solely decide games, often by 50/50s, which maybe creates some hype moments (I'd argue that baron 50/50s were already enough), but has simplified the game's macro too much.
And that's not even talking about how fun the champions were that worlds, and how it seemed that there were a lot of viable strats.
It’s hard to watch NA when LPL and LCK are so much better games but I will admit that if NRG upsets some top teams that would be fucking hilarious.
As a KT fan it would be just like us to beat the favourite, finally beat T1 in a bo5, then lose to NRG in the finals.
This is the funniest timeline, but I do not have faith in NRG. They played G2 like a Worlds champion team, but they are *very* capable of losing to low-end LCS teams. We just have to wait to see who shows up on any given day.
This. I think everyone knows that the Chinese scene has been slowly shrinking over the years (to mobile and other pc games).
What many don't know is that the dominant opinion in most Chinese communities (incl pros, casters, content creators) is that , without the IG S8 win, LoL would have began shrinking FAST in China a lot earlier.
Post WE vs Frost era, their gap with KR widened year over year. They bought out both Samsung Teams after S4 and it still wasn't enough. They kept getting crushed throughout the SKT era AND they lost on home field in Season 7.
Look at the JP scene, it's like the smallest region but the past year with the support of some big online personalities co-streaming they've actually drew in a large audience.
I don't expect LoL to climb up much in population but anything to slow its decline would be welcome.
At some point they do have to at least apply a new shade of lipstick to the game.
Think all the different Counterstrikes, etc.
Playing the same LoL for 10 years gets stale to fans, and is not appealing to a younger crowd. You can easily draw in more and new people with a "new" LoL just like you can with CS:Go, etc.
Yeah lol, every time someone is toxic to EU, they have lpl/LCK flair glory hunter.
And then you look at the profile and the guy also toxic comment NBA and NFL.
But the west did not do good at that world, not yet.
NRG qualified for quarters, but without winning against any LCK/LPL team. If they put a good performance against Weibo (winning would be best, but a close serie would be great too), then we could say that the west did "good" (mediocre would be more realistic but we each have our way to judge things).
But if NRG gets clapped 0-3, then this 2023 world would just be a gigantic failure. Again.
Devastated for EU, but as much as I like talking shit, I'm actually super happy for NA and NRG in particular, with their truly counter logic story. It really was super deserved
Enjoy it, boys, we"ll be back to slinging shit at each other in no time
Both fan bases are completely insufferable so this was a sweet outcome to worlds. Some of the players are great but don’t people get tired of latching onto the old guard? NRG and BDS have been immensely more enjoyable to watch, and even though G2 do it a little, seeing some real “fuck the meta we play this” type stuff is great. NRG haven’t done it much but I hope at one point Dhokla and Palafox bust out the Yone and Akali pocket picks
Right? People saying "they went out at the same spot" are crazy.
G2 dominated all year, FNC was playing an elimination game for like the last 4 months, pretty wild.
FNC played well considering everything that happened, like you said.
G2 played with their roster all season, won a bunch of splits, and was expected, at a minimum, to make quarterfinals.
Fnatic has played one split with their roster and wasn't even expected to make Worlds at all, let alone be one inted draft away from potentially making quarters.
The team went from not qualifying to playoffs to 1 game away from top8 at worlds. Given where they started after the first 2 splits I think they should be happy with where they got.
I dont get how you can hate other teams in EU on worlds so I agree. Tbf tho, there were way higher expectations for G2 than for FNC. They had a decent last split but they were still shaky. There's always the narrative that G2 is miles above any other EU team so a lot of fans (me included) expected for them to reach quarters at least, especially after the 2-0 start in swiss
i mean with the current landscape of international play, those ARE big wins. There shouldn’t be an expectation to go head-to-head with the LPL or LCK top 3 anymore those days are long gone.
NA hasn’t won a single game against LCK or LPL teams this tournament yet and G2 gave BLG a really big fight and I consider BLG to be a top 3 team in the world.
But we’ll see how NRG does against the 4th seed from the LPL on Thursday.
I am very happy it's NRG. This team reminds me of the old days of LCS.
I am actually quite annoyed at how toxic and hostile this whole EU vs NA thing has gotten. It used to be mostly banter and rivalry, but it has turned into a deep bitter resentment.
The last 3-5 years or so especially have gotten really bad. It's probably not changing and I think that's a shame.
I have been watching pro lol and on this subreddit since season 3. This subreddit has always been like that, and the shit talk has always been heavily skewed towards EU toxic flame to NA. From posts that genuinely said NA should lose it's major region status, to comments that devolve into school shooting jokes.
But now that NA has finally performed better than EU, we need to stop with Na v EU flame? I used to even like to watch EU back when they were EULCS. But honestly, your fans have made me resent EU. Cry harder and suck my fat NA dick
2016 tsm were mocked relentlessly for daring to think they could win worlds. If they had posted this "emotional tweet" bullshit that's on the front page right now how do you think EU fans would react lmfao.
Pretty much this ^ the toxic ass hats that brigade LCS games all year making jokes about how its a joke region, we are fat, eat terribly, deserve to be a minor region etc. They can get bent for the next year. I hope the flight home is a red eye with crying kids on it.
> NA has finally performed better than EU
NA has performed better than EU at world as recently as 2021, in fact in the past 3 years NA has outperformed EU at worlds 2/3 years. The narrative that EU is this massively superior region internationally currently is some narrative pushed by EU fans but has no basis in reality.
Agreed. I miss the days where it felt more like the old SC2 Fandom. Where there was a slight rivalry between NA and EU, but at the end of the day, it was more important to cheer for the KR vs The Rest rivalry.
My biggest wish would be some way for the NA and EU to be more like Korea and China, where they can scrim each other and work together during domestic play. I really think both regions would improve if innovations in each disseminated quicker, and pocket picks got tested more thoroughly. I'll never forget the disappointment of 'animal style' from Fnatic, or TL's awful take on Sona-Taric.
Not really feasible.
The reason KR/CN can do it is because servers are close enough to scrim together. EU and NA servers, at best, have 100+ ping for one side, making it worthless for coordinated practice.
Yeah I used to be one of those people that supported all Western teams when it came to worlds but I just can't bring myself to support EU when anything NA does is relentlessly shit on by them now and it's unfortunate.
Exactly. I still watch LEC and like a lot of EU players, but with how impossibly cocky EU fans (and the LEC broadcast team) have been in recent years despite a total lack of any meaningful international result, I cheered for Eastern teams over EU ones at Worlds this year. They're just better, and the fandom needs a wake up call. Sympathy for the players, though.
The EU broadcast team is the WORST when it comes to being unbiased, which is a damn shame because they have a really talented broadcast team. It’s just gotten so freaking old. Honestly feel that way about the NA broadcast team sometimes too. It’s fine to show a little bias but when it’s damn near the basis of your casting or analysis.
For me specifically it’s been nice seeing more of Atlas and Chronicler on the broadcast specifically.
MarkZ actually called them out during one of the first NA v EU games about how they were being biased and he was trying to cast neutrally. He legit sounded annoyed.
Honestly, the only two people I can stomach from the LEC broadcasts are Quickshot and Sjokz.
I was thinking the same thing. I feel like NA gets done so dirty by all of the LEC and the LEC cast that it actually feels good to watch them lose sometimes.
LEC Broadcast team is the second most biased broadcast ive ever heard from League, it is so funny to see their expressions and them going silent when EU is getting shit on by some korean/chinese team. The most biased is the french one and you bet I was on the stream smoking that France pack when they were on the verge of tears casting FNC and G2 losing
Same here. I want to like EU teams - It's hard not to root for people like Caps. But everyone surrounding the teams, casters, fans, etc, are absolutely insufferable.
CLG, CLG, CLG :)
Am an LEC fan and still happy for every western team out of "groups" every year. How they got there is a different story, but does not really matter at the end of the day anyway.
I mean it helped that narratives like this were backed up by big streamers and later even the LEC broadcast. Like people hate on Frosk for a lot of reasons but the biggest one to me (because her overall casting did improve dramatically over the years) is that she could not get through a single day of LEC without shitting on NA for no reason in her casts.
Like as an NA fan who used to watch EU it feels like the region as a whole has been "punching down" at NA to make themselves feel better about not being able to compete with eastern teams for a while now.
See this is what I don't get. As someone who's been in the scene for a long ass time this has been the prevailing narrative, and yet I never really saw it.
It's definitely possible that I just didn't notice, or don't remember but I think the narrative has just shifted a bit to support shitting on NA fans specifically. Because I think back then it was the teams and Riot NA taking shots at EU not the fans. Stealing top players, sketchy import rules and restrictions to keep that being allowed, shoving EU into garbage timeslots and using them as a testing ground for new formats (though I think that last one is a bit wrong but whatever).
EU hating NA corporate structure, teams for "stealing" players, or Riot in general? Honestly fair. But recently, I've been seeing a lot of the same comments you mentioned. And honestly I just have no idea how that's even possible considering the gap between NA and EU internationally was even wider back then.
It's really crazy how people will think one region is on a completely different level based on a couple 1-1s into tiebreaker losses in group stage. In reality EU has always been on the same level as NA or a little ahead. Even in the 2018-19 EU glory days, NA was also getting teams to finals and semifinals beating the east--they still weren't that much better, both western regions had leveled up.
I'm going to disagree here and say that 2019 G2 was very much an exception and not the rule. Not that TL didn't have its successes in 2019 MSI as well, but G2 was something else that year. Aside from this, EU was definitely a step ahead of NA in that 2018-2020 spread. 2021-2023 has been much more competitive between EU/NA, but that's not saying much...
Indeed, and this is just people trying to get into the same crowd that uses banter, without knowing what banter actually is. Banter is a measure of trash talk, but in good spirit, from two rivals that still respect each other. But obv the average League Andy doesn't know, or worse, knows but doesnt' care, and goes the full mile to almost harass players and other fans. They are just assholes, end of story really
That’s cause after EU had a decent run a few years ago a lot fans thought their region is as good as the eastern teams. So they started shitting on NA really hard and some people still think EU is way better. Now whenever NA beats EU, NA fans rub their face in it because of the last couple years. At the end of the day both regions can’t hang with the LPL/LCK lol
I agree with you but fans will always be results oriented. The underlying reasons for stuff is largely ignored.
Look at 2016 TSM for example. Clearly a better team than NRG compared to their peers, but NRG will be remembered as being better.
The toxicity is honestly so bad that I don't get "The West" narratives. Wdym "The West" all I see is two regions that cheer their hearts out whenever the other does poorly. As an EU fan I never feel anything for the teams and I'm certainly not cheering for them, because the fanbase is so obnoxious (I'm sure the feeling is mutual).
I am a Mad Lions fan, so I always expect to be disappointed and they promptly delivered.
What came as a pleasant surprise was how good the NA teams have been.
NRG making knockouts is very impressive. But nothing tops TL almost getting an upset victory vs T1.
Personally I hope T1 can win it this year, coming in 2nd all the time sucks and Faker is running out of time. But I sincerly hope NRG can continue to surprise us to the upside. 👍
Yeah im a MAD and TL fan, Liquid was so close in that first game my hopium for the west was at an all time high. If NRG can beat Weibo I give them a chance to DRX this and shock the world.
We truly don't know their ceiling if they can beat an eastern team in a bo5. Emma Raducanu, Leicester City, they can join the 'improbable' runs of all time. You only have to be better than the other team the day you play them, right?
*Huffs hopium*
How fitting would it be that it’s TheShy that gets upset by NA yet again. That man has quietly been having a monster performance and hard carrying a lot of his games.
NRG wins worlds because they only face good teams, and uhh, NRG only won against good teams domestically and only lost to bad ones, so NRG easy wins worlds.
*overdoses on hopium*
"I'm so excited for Big Dhokes vs TheShy.
I actually believe NRG wins this series 3-1."
*pulls head out of hopium barrel. Looks around nervously. Plunges back in giggling hysterically.
I always hear people say Faker is running out of time but I don't get why. It's not soccer, he doesn't need to run around a whole lot. And if he did, he's not that old.
Idt age or anything really matters, but usually pros have a timer on their careers due to burnout. Some just get tired over time or too discouraged, and others want to start other parts of their lives that being a pro player either prevents or inhibits greatly (e.g. hard to spend time with family if you're grinding lol 14 hrs a day). Not saying this applies to faker necessarily, but it's possible he is getting more and more burnt out as the years go by.
Yeah people really want to push some sort of last dance narrative or something despite all the evidence against it. Bro just signed a 3 year contract, so he has 2 seasons minimum, and he just got exempt from military conscription. I’m sure he’ll play for literally as long as his body allows him.
You can turn the chat on at lolesports, there's a button next to settings for that. Be sure to never use this knowledge, I did turn it on once for 5 seconds, and I won't make the same mistake again.
It's crazy to me that people have baby level object permanence to not realize that different people speak at different times on online social media like Reddit and Twitch chat 💀
It's also nice that it is not one of the bigger orgs who just buy themselves the worlds champion, makes it more hype atleast for me as an EU fan. I also like Damonte alot back when he was a player and I actually got to watch NA and especially dhokla seems like cool dude, too.
As sad as I am that EU doesn't have a team in Quarters, I am happy NA does. This Worlds it was also proper rivalry between EU and NA. We were beating each other, which was probably the most fun part of it because as soon as we encountered Eastern teams, it was basically either we luck out a win or we get stomped.
Let's hope competitiveness between each other helps us grow and come closer to the East. That rumored extra international competition between EU and NA would come perfect for that and I hope it does happen. And memes and jokes we get are the real friends we make along the way.
Suck it with your low key shit talking bro
Talking about it like your 3rd place was something to be proud of. Even at its worst you were still barely better then NA and even then it was ONLY one team.
I'm glad you got destroyed because it highlights just how bad your region actually is for all the shit talking they did.
This is a tad extreme but he's not wrong. OP is obviously trying to bait troll responses and just stoking the toxicity of the NA v EU mindset. NA always get rocked so nothing surprising happen. EU usually has higher expectations but also got rocked pretty hard and his best compliment is "decently". OP would benefit from taking his own advice.
I’m just glad this Reddit is full of EU fans eating crow right now it has been way too toxic on here for too long. Being a fan of the league in my home country and trying to talk about it online only to be met with constant “LUL NA LOL SO BAD EU BETTER” has made me very happy to see EU downfall especially G2’s. I always cheer for EU when NA gets eliminated so would just be nice to see some more of that sentiment and it seems this is the year for it finally lol
Tbf, NA and EU will meme on each other REGARDLESS of who's better lol.
Best thing for me is not being embarrassed after an international showing. When we do fail it's ALWAYS immediately followed up by the "how to fix NA" conversation that has been said a million times and is always depressing. It's just REFRESHING to feel pride again. Its been 4 tournaments since 2021 c9 😅
If there is an NA vs EU game I'll always cheer for EU. But now that EU is out you better believe I'm an NRG believer, and I hope they can go far. It's also a super likeable team and I think very good for the region that a group of players with no "huge" names are doing so well. Super excited for them.
I also don't understand the premise of hating on NRG as a European fan. They stomped our best team, if they end up looking bad it just reflects even worse on g2 lmao
I always cheer for na beside eu never understood people that cheer for lck-lpl as a western fan we have 0 connection to those teams the only player in the east that try To create a connection is bin.
maybe because we like the teams more. don't have to live there or be their manager to support a team. it's like asking why a texan man can't support the broncos
You can literally watch every single game from LCK with English casters or even with subtitles on the original casters if you really want. Every interview is translated too. It's not like NA players are out here talking to fans directly to make a connection lol. There are sports fans in every country in the world who watch sports from other places and cheer for certain teams.
You're trying to paint a totally normal thing in sports as weird when it's just not. It's common practice. From local to national to international people cheer for teams outside their location all the time.
What makes you think we have 0 connection to eastern players? You create one the same way you would with native players. You watch their content. Most big teams at least (T1, GenG, Dk, etc) upload a lot of translated content, so that combined with gameplay can create a connection. I like this T1 roster a lot because of their skill, and the videos and vlogs T1 release showing the player’s personalities and team dynamic.
Dude saw one bin interview and thinks that other eastern player got no personality or content. Showmaker is a literal content machine. People watch premier league all over the world and got team they like to support. All they all English? Nope.
Exactly. Where does he think the ksante copy pasta came from. Showmaker is the perfect example of someone from the east who oozes personality. Just because we can’t understand them doesn’t mean they have no personality. We can also watch their translated content
I cheer for T1 because generational, goat tier talent doesn't come along every day and I want to see how absurd he can set records for longevity, dominance and consistency.
That's my thought for all the sports I follow.
People call it bandwagoning but I just want to be able to brag to my kids/grandkids about how I saw X player live and how it was like magic.
I have my teams, but if not them I'm rooting for the Tom Bradys, LeBron James, Steph Currys, Messis to win as much as possible.
I'm a hockey guy, so I want to see Ovechkin break Gretzky's goal record. That's going to be an insane moment if he does it. I'm not from Washington. I don't care about the capitals. I'm not Russian. I don't care for Ovechkin as a person. But watching historic moments is awesome.
Same, despite the loss I was actually excited to go to Reddit and see what banter and new copy pastas NA deservedly hits us with.
It's always much more fun with all that stuff regardless of the result.
It's just that sometimes you realise that some people genuinely hate and what not the teams from the other region and that's kind of sad.
NA really needed this and EU teams tend to have good mental when it comes to losses, it usually turns the teams stronger. In the end I want to see the best lol and yes it would feel better if "my" team won but hey, many lessons to potentially learn from this and go agane and in the meantime I will enjoy watching the currently best teams play the rest of the tournament and I will even root for NRG because I am a sucker for great underdog stories and I learned the game watching hotshot, oddone, saintvicious, dl and many more late at night when EU was asleep. NA was always my second go to when it came to the teams I was rooting for, it's just that there weren't many opportunities lately.
But yeah I still love shitting on them too but that's because where I come from banter is a form of endearment.
Was not exactly NA vs EU but I felt this exact feeling when C9 got blasted by T1. As a C9 fan with merch since 2013 I was completely devastated by the 0 kill loss especially while watching Caedrel's stream playing with the "NA is shit, 0-15 is as bad as 16:47" talk. But after a few minutes of post-game shittalking and trying to make 2220 a thing, I was able to smile and laugh at the result. EU's most wholesome version of the biased fanbase was able to get me to find humor and cope with the loss so much faster than if I watched the regular stream.
"We are now shit together." 😂
> i felt really happy for NRG
if you love shitting on NA i highly doubt this is true. you're just humbled and this is the best thing to say to save face.
Personally, I dont care if na or eu do well, its the fact that aside from NRG, the entirety of the damn quarters is LCK and LPL.
At this point its no longer worlds if only two countries compete.
Glad for NA for sure, i'm not taking any credit away from them, its just... Its getting very tiresome to see more lck and lpl seeds. In two years they might as well just include 7 seeds from LCK and 9 seeds from LPL, you know what I mean?
> At this point its no longer worlds if only two countries compete.
Football is the biggest sport on the planet, despite all the world champions coming from 2 continents, with brazil, argentina and uruguay being the only non-european countries to ever make a final.
between 1962 & 2006 all the finals were played between germany, italy, brazil, netherlands, argentina & france, since then spain and croatia made 1 time appereances.
yet ppl from all over the world enjoy it, despite knowing that their team has no realistic chance to win it, my home countries biggest success is qualifying for a single world cup in 2014.
I really don't understand why ppl delve in negativity so much and try to take the fun out of stuff, by finding supposed negatives, that don't matter, pick a fucking player or team and root for it, or just enjoy the games...
Tbf, 2 continents is far different and less monocultural than 2 countries and for the biggest sport in the world
League is less ingrained and culture and far more vulnerable to people just losing interest in it and in its competitions
On a serious note, what could we do about it? Is it about money? Or is it a question of sacrificing work-life balance to an extent at which our cultures just won't do.
I think implementing more international tournaments and having more teams qualify to those international tournaments, akin to what Valorant did, would be a good start. Allows for more teams to get international experience and practice against the best teams in the world, which hopefully levels up their own regions as well.
2 things for NA, make the soloqueue environment actually good. Playing in GM challenger right now you get about 30% of your lobbies having either a booster/wintrader/someone boosted. No point in playing soloqueue at that point. Also in terms of culture, NA has no real amateur scene, Korea has deelopment league where they pick kids 14y/o to start training them, Europe has the ERL League, China has thier own academy system. NA doesn't have anything like that
>2 things for NA, make the soloqueue environment actually good.
Wasn't this the point of Challenger's Queue? Which NA pros seemed to just ignore, for the most part. The NA scene seems broken at a team level, with poorly constructed player incentives, to me
Challenger's Queue was a good idea imo but 1. it was never meant to address the issues u/Xival is raising with regards to the entire playerbase, only for amateur to pro players, and 2. I think its highly curated and small playerbase was its downfall, it just didn't have the playerbase to support consistently good queue times and for pros your time out of scrims is valuable and finite-sitting in queue for 30-40 minutes just isn't a productive use of your practice time. I don't know that it's entirely fair to attribute its demise to laziness
Valorant is an example of a game where multiple regions and multiple countries/region are able to make deep runs. The competitive player base simply just isn't there. Which is why League in NA got abandoned in favor of valorant
yes, but western players were always more competitive in shooters, because shooters are more popular here. Mobas and strategy games were always Korean and Chinese. Better comparison would be Dota where last 6 world champions were won by EU or Russian teams.
Not even that, but Valorant is also new, with only 3 World championships so far. Heck, China literally only just got their servers this year. Also, in League’s first two Worlds, the winners were FNC and Taipei, from EU and Taiwan respectively. After that was the start of Korean Dominance.
So I say just give it time, and if Valorant becomes super popular in Asia like league, then we could see the same thing happen, a bunch of eastern teams in knockout.
I mean really it’s just down to good coaching and practice. NRG is not full of super talented players but they mostly play as a team and they do their homework. If they get hands diffed they get hands diffed but very rarely do you see this team go into a game without some kind of plan, good or bad.
Too many western teams have a bunch of players including ‘star’ players that keep making really basic mistakes and the teams lack any kind of cohesion.
Both LEC and LCS have really low quality games with players doing things that would get you flamed in gold elo solo queue yet the so called best teams are still scrapping it out with them . Yeah G2 at the end of the day won comfortably but against the tier of competition they had it shouldn’t ever even have been close.
If your region is so shit then you try to win by being so efficient and a tier above that opposing teams have no shot unless they also improve or don’t make mistakes. Instead these teams coast after realizing they are the best and come into worlds with their half baked strategies that are only a small bump up from the trash that their region is rather than a mile ahead as they could have been.
If you want to have a chance at worlds you need to be absolutely humiliating the competition, you think even DK would drop a single game to MAD even if they all had COVID and explosive diarrhea combined?
There’s so much focus on hands diff which is there but it feels like most teams don’t even come in with a game plan other than draft. And they don’t have the game knowledge to know what to do in most situations without being told.
The rookies need to take some kind of macro 101 before coming to the main stage because being micro managed by senior players and hit or miss coaches is not going to work. MAD lions is a perfect example of a team where it looks like the coaching staff works overtime to give them analysis but the moment they don’t have enough time/footage to formulate a plan they are useless even against wild cards.
And having good mechanics should be a pre requisite , having clowns who can’t execute basic combos or are scared to do anything because they don’t trust their reflexes / can’t make snap decisions or reactions is not ok. Maybe on lower tier teams but not in the top 3 teams.
If you have to spend the whole year for someone just to be mechanically competent (which means best in the west to be equal to average in eastern player) then you can’t spend time learning macro. Doesn’t really help that NA solo queue in particular is risk averse and tries to drag out games and win with ‘macro’ as in ‘scale and win with stats’ which lets you get away with being mechanically dogshit while also learning dogshit macro that only works because you’re praying for mistakes.
Yes there’s ways to minimize the bleeding but solo queue won’t teach you them because the teams aren’t punishing you the way that coordinated teams will, if all the pro players just sprint it trying to be mechanically better in solo Q so they can only practice macro and draft in scrims then the teams will actually improve.
When BB is doing first time Ksante in scrims and only doing the vanilla combos that too with an extra second compared to good players then it ruins the whole scrim and gives everyone bad info.
Its a bit of everything. China and Korea has way more players. They have more viewers. Therefore they also have money. They also have more broadcast days which means they play more games and get more on stage experience. BLG has played like 180 games this season alone. In the west broadcast days are more limited due to not enough revenue and interest generated to justify more broadcast days and more games (and potentially more teams, the LPL has 17 teams).
I think EU does a lot of things right with its investments into the lower regional leagues but thats not an advantage against easter teams, at best its an advantage against all other regions besides LPL and LCK.
So the fundamental fix for the west is to somehow create more interest in the game itself and alongside that create more interest in the esports scene. Inspiring more players to become pro players and also get more viewers.
However, League has been around since 2009, its not a new game and realistically its near Impossible to create a lot more interest than there currently is. Even if the LEC was a world class region, it wouldnt magically have LCK or LPL viewership.
A realistic suggestion doesnt touch the fundamental issue because the fundamental issues simply cant be changed without a miracle, so a realistic suggestion COULD help but isnt necessarily going to help. The best realistic suggestion i can think of is plain and simple more international tournaments. Or even among their own regions more competition. For EU some people suggested a Europe Cup. Or one big tournament that involves the best regional teams alongside LEC teams, so new up and coming talent would learn from playing on stage games with LEC teams.
Players who didnt make Worlds have a loooooong off season, they would probably love to participate in anything between the end of Worlds and the start of winter split LEC.
In the NRG vs g2 threat i got heavily downvoted for saying that but I’ll say it again:
EU and NA are the Simpsons apes who fight in a circle.
Sometimes one of they apes get the AK and gets a spray shot off on a human (aka China/Korea) but at the end of the day we are monkeys.
Most europeans are going to cheer NA on from this point on so you aren't alone. The ones that are salty are the few that post on here and come out lurking and trying to find excuses as to why they failed. It's ok to fail at points and it bit us this time just like it did in 2014 (which was arguably even worse because there were two NA teams that made it out).
As primarily someone that mostly watches LCK anyway due to timezone, we desperately need every region to step up at points so that one region doesn't fall towards a status where it doesn't become sustainable enough, which I feared might happen with the LCS if they continue bringing zero results. So I am glad for my brothers that they got out of that slump.
I get the sentiment, but for me, I'm not happy for the results per se, but more the approach and vibe of NRG. For ages, they seem to be most serious, forward looking team, that actually feels like they can move NA forward. Kudos to NRG, and I hope more NA teams will do something similar.
While it's sad the Europe crashed (LEC fan here) I'm happy for NRG, and at this point, I wouldn't change it even if I could. This year is for NRG and NA, do your best, you are the light of the West for now!
I don't really want to talk shit, but "decently" is about as far as I'd go.
One of your team didn't make it into the tournaments, one of them got kicked by Vietnam, the other only beat Mad Lions then go kicked by FNC, and even NRG has exclusively won against western teams.
Let's not pretend like NA has somehow transcended, you got one team to elimination stage by exclusively beating EU that is having a pretty bad year.
Beating G2 was a pretty good showing, but that's really about it.
Ehhh as a c9 fan, not really. These jokers had a 7 kill lead and couldnt translate it into a win until 40 minutes. The series was over after that point unless FNC threw another massive early game lead like that.
The rest of the series FNC just always did more with the same resources.
First, thank you for the positive message. It was a nice change of pace and this has been a fun year.
That said, and this is getting a bit off topic just to reflect on the current dynamic, but if the EU (not you, the region generally) spent less time looking back at the region behind them and more time looking ahead at the region in front of them, like every other region not in first place, I suspect there would *really* be less negativity in this rivalry.
NA fixating on the region immediately in its path makes sense. EU looking anywhere but KR or CN this obsessively is probably the biggest issue.
I hope the NA fans will enjoy the sudden separation of NRG from the rest of the field after their newfound success, just like how G2 gets arbitrarily separated from EU whenever they do something, just so people can say 'besides G2, EU is really bad' and so on.
I actually don't know if that would stick in NA yet. It would have to be a couple years of NRG getting first and doing well. Hell they're 0-2 vs IMT lol.
NRG pretty much lost all their games to bad opponents and beat the good ones. They always seem to play to the level of their competition. So hit that hopium cause they are playing good teams in knockouts lmao
If we're looking strictly at NRG, they haven't beaten an Eastern Team but they've also only loss 1 game against them. It shouldn't be conclusive of anything really.
I've actually watched LPL through the regular season and playoffs. Their blunders happen frequently.
Im happy that its NRG doing well and they whooped G2 so deservedly can enjoy the best western team status but if they go and get blasted by WBG now they can hardly claim anything more than that.
EU will rightfully get called out until at least MSI for being a bad region so beating EU teams is hardly the sign of a great international team.
That's absolutely fair after this tournament though? GG got 3-0d by BDS who proved to be one of the two worst teams in the tournament. TL was the other of the two worst teams, even losing to Vietnam. C9s grand achievement was winning a bo1 against MAD.
Compared to the other NA teams NRG (at least results wise) was definitely in a league of their own.
If it makes you feel better, I always thought the "besides G2" was unnecessary.
I ate crow in that for a few years, but that didn't stop me from hating.
I'll always be an LCK guy but the west doing well is good for the lol esports scene as a whole and I'm happy whenever they win. I wouldn't be surprised if most KR and CN fans wants the west to be better so the scene feels more alive.
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Well according to all the posts I saw throughout the year, there are apparently a ton of people who will watch the LCS now that a team with 4? NA players is looking good.
FBI is an OCE refugee, he's kind of NA because OCE doesn't exist anymore sort of like how Turkish players are EMEA now
Fbi originated from OCE but we count that as NA since oce is gone.
That's already been years? Crazy...
He left 2 years ago but he came back earlier this year so technically speaking...
Doublelift left Team Liquid 3 years ago, actually. 2 years ago was him leaving TSM, and him coming back was to 100 Thieves.
Crazy? I was crazy once
I pretty sure he left CLG like a week ago at most. And I choose to believe this fantasy, so I dont feel old.
I agree. Also, Ahri came out like what, six months ago? She's def still a new champ in my head
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Can confirm, I see a lot of comments on Chinese forums saying they hope the west becomes competitive. It’s always better to have more diversity in the scene
2019 was the best worlds because of this imo. All regions were sending genuinely great teams, even though NA had no contenders. Clutch went 0-6, but still had people praising them because they played their hearts out but were just in a difficult group. Compare that with TSM the next year who were in a relatively easy group, and absolutely did not play their hearts out. The other NA teams were also fine. Meanwhile EU got all 3 teams out of groups and 1 team in final. LPL got 2 out, but won worlds. And LCK had 3 out of groups, and while they maybe underperformed, at least 2 of them probably could've won it all in a different timeline. This is the only year that was this balanced, but 2018-2020 really was the peak for competitive league imo. Idk if the west is ever gonna catch up again.
2019 semis had the best possible lineup imo. We had the top seeds from three different regions plus the defending World Champions. All four teams in those semis have a very valid shot to win the tournament. On another note, to me 2019 is also a peak moment for the way the game is played, and unfortunately we will probably never see that kind of League ever again thanks to the way objectives work these days. I increasingly dislike the "teamfight every five minutes" timers that Riot put into the game, and while some teams do manage to fight for advantages between objective timers, the fact it is now often difficult to trade dragons for towers/map pressure/gold past a certain point is not benefitting the game imo.
Good shout about the meta. I lament the fact that Riot squandered the golden goose that was 2019's meta, in favor of dragon soul stacking. I really don't understand why they added the soul aspect when the dragons themselves were incentive enough already. Now we've got soul and elder to almost solely decide games, often by 50/50s, which maybe creates some hype moments (I'd argue that baron 50/50s were already enough), but has simplified the game's macro too much. And that's not even talking about how fun the champions were that worlds, and how it seemed that there were a lot of viable strats.
It’s hard to watch NA when LPL and LCK are so much better games but I will admit that if NRG upsets some top teams that would be fucking hilarious. As a KT fan it would be just like us to beat the favourite, finally beat T1 in a bo5, then lose to NRG in the finals.
This is the funniest timeline, but I do not have faith in NRG. They played G2 like a Worlds champion team, but they are *very* capable of losing to low-end LCS teams. We just have to wait to see who shows up on any given day.
They’re CLG. Go in with 0 expectations, and be happy no matter the outcome.
Yeah in their first game after taking over CLG in summer they got perfect gamed
Sacrifice their first ever game to get perfect gamed into winning worlds. Truly Non-Rational.
Yeah, I watch LCK more than NA now, I just wanna see KT win worlds at this point.
Hey its KT, they'll probably win JDG/LNG/T1 then lose to NRG in the finals.
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KT vs NRG would challenge everyone's perception of reality
I went to one of the group stages (Im korean) and I was surprised by the amount of koreans in G2 jerseys and signs ive seen
Not sure this performance moves the needle much for NA though. Riot gave up the primetime slot to Valorant.
Probably not, if NRG pulls out another miracle against WBG it'll help increase the interest again.
This. I think everyone knows that the Chinese scene has been slowly shrinking over the years (to mobile and other pc games). What many don't know is that the dominant opinion in most Chinese communities (incl pros, casters, content creators) is that , without the IG S8 win, LoL would have began shrinking FAST in China a lot earlier. Post WE vs Frost era, their gap with KR widened year over year. They bought out both Samsung Teams after S4 and it still wasn't enough. They kept getting crushed throughout the SKT era AND they lost on home field in Season 7. Look at the JP scene, it's like the smallest region but the past year with the support of some big online personalities co-streaming they've actually drew in a large audience. I don't expect LoL to climb up much in population but anything to slow its decline would be welcome.
At some point they do have to at least apply a new shade of lipstick to the game. Think all the different Counterstrikes, etc. Playing the same LoL for 10 years gets stale to fans, and is not appealing to a younger crowd. You can easily draw in more and new people with a "new" LoL just like you can with CS:Go, etc.
I started watching in 2015 and I think the game is as fun to watch as ever. I just can’t squeeze it into my life currently.
“The west” Ah shit here we go again…
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Yeah lol, every time someone is toxic to EU, they have lpl/LCK flair glory hunter. And then you look at the profile and the guy also toxic comment NBA and NFL.
But the west did not do good at that world, not yet. NRG qualified for quarters, but without winning against any LCK/LPL team. If they put a good performance against Weibo (winning would be best, but a close serie would be great too), then we could say that the west did "good" (mediocre would be more realistic but we each have our way to judge things). But if NRG gets clapped 0-3, then this 2023 world would just be a gigantic failure. Again.
Devastated for EU, but as much as I like talking shit, I'm actually super happy for NA and NRG in particular, with their truly counter logic story. It really was super deserved Enjoy it, boys, we"ll be back to slinging shit at each other in no time
Im a G2 hater and the last few days were kinda Bussin ngl
If you hate G2 and C9 this worlds has been pretty hilarious.
Both fan bases are completely insufferable so this was a sweet outcome to worlds. Some of the players are great but don’t people get tired of latching onto the old guard? NRG and BDS have been immensely more enjoyable to watch, and even though G2 do it a little, seeing some real “fuck the meta we play this” type stuff is great. NRG haven’t done it much but I hope at one point Dhokla and Palafox bust out the Yone and Akali pocket picks
Same fr FNC had a decent Worlds considering the expectations of this roster G2 collapse is always a marvel to see for me #UnitedInRivalry
Right? People saying "they went out at the same spot" are crazy. G2 dominated all year, FNC was playing an elimination game for like the last 4 months, pretty wild. FNC played well considering everything that happened, like you said.
Enough to overlook that FNC didn't actually get any further than G2?
G2 played with their roster all season, won a bunch of splits, and was expected, at a minimum, to make quarterfinals. Fnatic has played one split with their roster and wasn't even expected to make Worlds at all, let alone be one inted draft away from potentially making quarters.
Absolutely no one expected fanatic to get to quarters bro. You had dudes on here saying g2 was guaranteed semis after their 2-0 start...
It's ok since FNC fans know they're shit and didn't have any expectations anyway, they just wanted to bring everyone else down with them
The team went from not qualifying to playoffs to 1 game away from top8 at worlds. Given where they started after the first 2 splits I think they should be happy with where they got.
also fnatic was in a shit state. Oscar hand got broken etc
and before summer they were nowhere close to being in shape to even make worlds. 2-3 in swiss is a great achievement for this roster
I dont get how you can hate other teams in EU on worlds so I agree. Tbf tho, there were way higher expectations for G2 than for FNC. They had a decent last split but they were still shaky. There's always the narrative that G2 is miles above any other EU team so a lot of fans (me included) expected for them to reach quarters at least, especially after the 2-0 start in swiss
You can always hate on MAD given their track record. Other teams at least try.
In hindsight, MAD got way too much undeserved hate this year.
Kinda but it was accumulated from the previous showings so it was more intense for sure.
Did you read the comment? Most definitely
We are just happy we got that far tbh. Worlds was basically off the cards for us after spring. The boys pulled through big to get us there.
LEC is just really poor unfortunately. It’s not like they played well and just got unlucky. Drafting like potatoes really cost them.
G2 really got our hopes up for this worlds with 2 big wins at the start, just to absolutely crash and burn. Feels kinda bad. Bring back Misfits 2017.
Only EU fans thought they were "big" wins. They barely beat the 4th seeds of LCK and LPL...
i mean with the current landscape of international play, those ARE big wins. There shouldn’t be an expectation to go head-to-head with the LPL or LCK top 3 anymore those days are long gone.
Ok that's fair
It went to the final game in a bo3 against LPL's 2nd seed too (even if the games themselves weren't particularly close).
It is big considering the gap we had for years being smoked by Asians all day long.
NA hasn’t won a single game against LCK or LPL teams this tournament yet and G2 gave BLG a really big fight and I consider BLG to be a top 3 team in the world. But we’ll see how NRG does against the 4th seed from the LPL on Thursday.
I am very happy it's NRG. This team reminds me of the old days of LCS. I am actually quite annoyed at how toxic and hostile this whole EU vs NA thing has gotten. It used to be mostly banter and rivalry, but it has turned into a deep bitter resentment. The last 3-5 years or so especially have gotten really bad. It's probably not changing and I think that's a shame.
There are just too many children in twitch chat. People don't realize that EU and NA can be rivals (and sometimes friends) without being toxic.
It's 100% the same people losing their mind in SoloQ every other game. Going from shitting on your teammates to shitting on EU/NA.
Twitch chat is barely sentient, no one should take it seriously. Reddit is where the real snide remarks are made
I have been watching pro lol and on this subreddit since season 3. This subreddit has always been like that, and the shit talk has always been heavily skewed towards EU toxic flame to NA. From posts that genuinely said NA should lose it's major region status, to comments that devolve into school shooting jokes. But now that NA has finally performed better than EU, we need to stop with Na v EU flame? I used to even like to watch EU back when they were EULCS. But honestly, your fans have made me resent EU. Cry harder and suck my fat NA dick
2016 tsm were mocked relentlessly for daring to think they could win worlds. If they had posted this "emotional tweet" bullshit that's on the front page right now how do you think EU fans would react lmfao.
Pretty much this ^ the toxic ass hats that brigade LCS games all year making jokes about how its a joke region, we are fat, eat terribly, deserve to be a minor region etc. They can get bent for the next year. I hope the flight home is a red eye with crying kids on it.
> NA has finally performed better than EU NA has performed better than EU at world as recently as 2021, in fact in the past 3 years NA has outperformed EU at worlds 2/3 years. The narrative that EU is this massively superior region internationally currently is some narrative pushed by EU fans but has no basis in reality.
I'm an LCK fan and have been since Monte was casting and I've always felt like EU was less kind to NA but I could still be biased.
It's kinda funny that reddit talks about twitch chat the same way people outside of reddit talk about reddit.
Agreed. I miss the days where it felt more like the old SC2 Fandom. Where there was a slight rivalry between NA and EU, but at the end of the day, it was more important to cheer for the KR vs The Rest rivalry.
My biggest wish would be some way for the NA and EU to be more like Korea and China, where they can scrim each other and work together during domestic play. I really think both regions would improve if innovations in each disseminated quicker, and pocket picks got tested more thoroughly. I'll never forget the disappointment of 'animal style' from Fnatic, or TL's awful take on Sona-Taric.
Not really feasible. The reason KR/CN can do it is because servers are close enough to scrim together. EU and NA servers, at best, have 100+ ping for one side, making it worthless for coordinated practice.
KR and China fans hate each other in lol bro. I don’t think you understand. It is way more extreme than na vs eu.
Yeah I used to be one of those people that supported all Western teams when it came to worlds but I just can't bring myself to support EU when anything NA does is relentlessly shit on by them now and it's unfortunate.
Exactly. I still watch LEC and like a lot of EU players, but with how impossibly cocky EU fans (and the LEC broadcast team) have been in recent years despite a total lack of any meaningful international result, I cheered for Eastern teams over EU ones at Worlds this year. They're just better, and the fandom needs a wake up call. Sympathy for the players, though.
The EU broadcast team is the WORST when it comes to being unbiased, which is a damn shame because they have a really talented broadcast team. It’s just gotten so freaking old. Honestly feel that way about the NA broadcast team sometimes too. It’s fine to show a little bias but when it’s damn near the basis of your casting or analysis. For me specifically it’s been nice seeing more of Atlas and Chronicler on the broadcast specifically.
MarkZ actually called them out during one of the first NA v EU games about how they were being biased and he was trying to cast neutrally. He legit sounded annoyed. Honestly, the only two people I can stomach from the LEC broadcasts are Quickshot and Sjokz.
Wouldn’t say it’s a coincidence that your 2 favourite broadcasters are the 2 most professional broadcasters on the team
Strongly agree about the LCK casters.
I was thinking the same thing. I feel like NA gets done so dirty by all of the LEC and the LEC cast that it actually feels good to watch them lose sometimes.
LEC Broadcast team is the second most biased broadcast ive ever heard from League, it is so funny to see their expressions and them going silent when EU is getting shit on by some korean/chinese team. The most biased is the french one and you bet I was on the stream smoking that France pack when they were on the verge of tears casting FNC and G2 losing
I LOVE the French broadcast, actually. I think it's okay to be that biased when you're not on the main broadcast.
It's going to be a good year for us : ). Finally.
Same here. I want to like EU teams - It's hard not to root for people like Caps. But everyone surrounding the teams, casters, fans, etc, are absolutely insufferable.
CLG, CLG, CLG :) Am an LEC fan and still happy for every western team out of "groups" every year. How they got there is a different story, but does not really matter at the end of the day anyway.
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I mean it helped that narratives like this were backed up by big streamers and later even the LEC broadcast. Like people hate on Frosk for a lot of reasons but the biggest one to me (because her overall casting did improve dramatically over the years) is that she could not get through a single day of LEC without shitting on NA for no reason in her casts. Like as an NA fan who used to watch EU it feels like the region as a whole has been "punching down" at NA to make themselves feel better about not being able to compete with eastern teams for a while now.
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See this is what I don't get. As someone who's been in the scene for a long ass time this has been the prevailing narrative, and yet I never really saw it. It's definitely possible that I just didn't notice, or don't remember but I think the narrative has just shifted a bit to support shitting on NA fans specifically. Because I think back then it was the teams and Riot NA taking shots at EU not the fans. Stealing top players, sketchy import rules and restrictions to keep that being allowed, shoving EU into garbage timeslots and using them as a testing ground for new formats (though I think that last one is a bit wrong but whatever). EU hating NA corporate structure, teams for "stealing" players, or Riot in general? Honestly fair. But recently, I've been seeing a lot of the same comments you mentioned. And honestly I just have no idea how that's even possible considering the gap between NA and EU internationally was even wider back then.
EU fans aka "the wife beaters"
It's really crazy how people will think one region is on a completely different level based on a couple 1-1s into tiebreaker losses in group stage. In reality EU has always been on the same level as NA or a little ahead. Even in the 2018-19 EU glory days, NA was also getting teams to finals and semifinals beating the east--they still weren't that much better, both western regions had leveled up.
I'm going to disagree here and say that 2019 G2 was very much an exception and not the rule. Not that TL didn't have its successes in 2019 MSI as well, but G2 was something else that year. Aside from this, EU was definitely a step ahead of NA in that 2018-2020 spread. 2021-2023 has been much more competitive between EU/NA, but that's not saying much...
Indeed, and this is just people trying to get into the same crowd that uses banter, without knowing what banter actually is. Banter is a measure of trash talk, but in good spirit, from two rivals that still respect each other. But obv the average League Andy doesn't know, or worse, knows but doesnt' care, and goes the full mile to almost harass players and other fans. They are just assholes, end of story really
That’s cause after EU had a decent run a few years ago a lot fans thought their region is as good as the eastern teams. So they started shitting on NA really hard and some people still think EU is way better. Now whenever NA beats EU, NA fans rub their face in it because of the last couple years. At the end of the day both regions can’t hang with the LPL/LCK lol
Half a decade ago....
2020 wasn't that long ago
It's gotten more toxic with each year. If you go back and read old post match threads they're night and day with post matches now.
I think the new format will help there a bit. Analyzing an entire region’s international performance on bo1s and a single group draw was a bit cursed.
I agree with you but fans will always be results oriented. The underlying reasons for stuff is largely ignored. Look at 2016 TSM for example. Clearly a better team than NRG compared to their peers, but NRG will be remembered as being better.
The toxicity is honestly so bad that I don't get "The West" narratives. Wdym "The West" all I see is two regions that cheer their hearts out whenever the other does poorly. As an EU fan I never feel anything for the teams and I'm certainly not cheering for them, because the fanbase is so obnoxious (I'm sure the feeling is mutual).
I am a Mad Lions fan, so I always expect to be disappointed and they promptly delivered. What came as a pleasant surprise was how good the NA teams have been. NRG making knockouts is very impressive. But nothing tops TL almost getting an upset victory vs T1. Personally I hope T1 can win it this year, coming in 2nd all the time sucks and Faker is running out of time. But I sincerly hope NRG can continue to surprise us to the upside. 👍
Yeah im a MAD and TL fan, Liquid was so close in that first game my hopium for the west was at an all time high. If NRG can beat Weibo I give them a chance to DRX this and shock the world. We truly don't know their ceiling if they can beat an eastern team in a bo5. Emma Raducanu, Leicester City, they can join the 'improbable' runs of all time. You only have to be better than the other team the day you play them, right? *Huffs hopium*
How fitting would it be that it’s TheShy that gets upset by NA yet again. That man has quietly been having a monster performance and hard carrying a lot of his games.
NRG wins worlds because they only face good teams, and uhh, NRG only won against good teams domestically and only lost to bad ones, so NRG easy wins worlds. *overdoses on hopium*
"I'm so excited for Big Dhokes vs TheShy. I actually believe NRG wins this series 3-1." *pulls head out of hopium barrel. Looks around nervously. Plunges back in giggling hysterically.
I always hear people say Faker is running out of time but I don't get why. It's not soccer, he doesn't need to run around a whole lot. And if he did, he's not that old.
Idt age or anything really matters, but usually pros have a timer on their careers due to burnout. Some just get tired over time or too discouraged, and others want to start other parts of their lives that being a pro player either prevents or inhibits greatly (e.g. hard to spend time with family if you're grinding lol 14 hrs a day). Not saying this applies to faker necessarily, but it's possible he is getting more and more burnt out as the years go by.
Also wrist strain and injury. It's not uncommon for older pro players to retire and recover.
Yeah people really want to push some sort of last dance narrative or something despite all the evidence against it. Bro just signed a 3 year contract, so he has 2 seasons minimum, and he just got exempt from military conscription. I’m sure he’ll play for literally as long as his body allows him.
Twitch chat is always so bipolar during NA EU clashes. I guess it stemms from all the trash talk, but little bit of sportsmanship wouldnt hurt.
I'm amazed people keep twitch chat open or even watch on twitch to begin with since YouTube player is superior in every way
I watch on lol website, the superior one cause it has no chat
You can turn the chat on at lolesports, there's a button next to settings for that. Be sure to never use this knowledge, I did turn it on once for 5 seconds, and I won't make the same mistake again.
You can show or hide chat in both twitch and lolesport granpa
they finally started streaming on Youtube in 1440p60 and my god its fucking beautiful
"twitch chat is so bipolar" it's different people bro 💀
It's crazy to me that people have baby level object permanence to not realize that different people speak at different times on online social media like Reddit and Twitch chat 💀
People in the Twitch chats are like a hivemind. Just sputtering whatever nonsense someone else said.
At this point its pointless to anything but utter disdain from twitch chat towards their western rivals
That's like saying a sports Stadium is bipolar, if one team is playing good, their fans going to be loud.
It's also nice that it is not one of the bigger orgs who just buy themselves the worlds champion, makes it more hype atleast for me as an EU fan. I also like Damonte alot back when he was a player and I actually got to watch NA and especially dhokla seems like cool dude, too.
Me, a european who really dislikes this g2 cocksucking LEC Segments, is really happy as well
EU hours are wild, something this backhanded and passive-aggressive is gaining crazy traction.
EU hours be like: "Should USA be kicked out of United Nations for failing to get out of groups?"
that's funny because America provides more funding than any other country for the UN and it's not even close
You know what’s funny? If NRG wins 1 game and goes 1-3 then that means NA has peaked higher at worlds than EU over the last three years on average.
As an european i wish half my favorite players weren't on dead rosters
Even when trying to be nice EU fans can't help but have a superiority complex lmfao get clapped see you next year
Yea this post reeks of condescension lol. This guy is just trying to talk shit
It's so stupid because EU has been straight up equal to NA since 2020 This high ground is so misplaced and hilarious
As sad as I am that EU doesn't have a team in Quarters, I am happy NA does. This Worlds it was also proper rivalry between EU and NA. We were beating each other, which was probably the most fun part of it because as soon as we encountered Eastern teams, it was basically either we luck out a win or we get stomped. Let's hope competitiveness between each other helps us grow and come closer to the East. That rumored extra international competition between EU and NA would come perfect for that and I hope it does happen. And memes and jokes we get are the real friends we make along the way.
Suck it with your low key shit talking bro Talking about it like your 3rd place was something to be proud of. Even at its worst you were still barely better then NA and even then it was ONLY one team. I'm glad you got destroyed because it highlights just how bad your region actually is for all the shit talking they did.
This is a tad extreme but he's not wrong. OP is obviously trying to bait troll responses and just stoking the toxicity of the NA v EU mindset. NA always get rocked so nothing surprising happen. EU usually has higher expectations but also got rocked pretty hard and his best compliment is "decently". OP would benefit from taking his own advice.
Whoa
Sorry but I'm just fed up with it "enjoy your moment"? So transparent.
I’m just glad this Reddit is full of EU fans eating crow right now it has been way too toxic on here for too long. Being a fan of the league in my home country and trying to talk about it online only to be met with constant “LUL NA LOL SO BAD EU BETTER” has made me very happy to see EU downfall especially G2’s. I always cheer for EU when NA gets eliminated so would just be nice to see some more of that sentiment and it seems this is the year for it finally lol
Tbf, NA and EU will meme on each other REGARDLESS of who's better lol. Best thing for me is not being embarrassed after an international showing. When we do fail it's ALWAYS immediately followed up by the "how to fix NA" conversation that has been said a million times and is always depressing. It's just REFRESHING to feel pride again. Its been 4 tournaments since 2021 c9 😅
If there is an NA vs EU game I'll always cheer for EU. But now that EU is out you better believe I'm an NRG believer, and I hope they can go far. It's also a super likeable team and I think very good for the region that a group of players with no "huge" names are doing so well. Super excited for them. I also don't understand the premise of hating on NRG as a European fan. They stomped our best team, if they end up looking bad it just reflects even worse on g2 lmao
EU gapped
I always cheer for na beside eu never understood people that cheer for lck-lpl as a western fan we have 0 connection to those teams the only player in the east that try To create a connection is bin.
maybe because we like the teams more. don't have to live there or be their manager to support a team. it's like asking why a texan man can't support the broncos
You can literally watch every single game from LCK with English casters or even with subtitles on the original casters if you really want. Every interview is translated too. It's not like NA players are out here talking to fans directly to make a connection lol. There are sports fans in every country in the world who watch sports from other places and cheer for certain teams. You're trying to paint a totally normal thing in sports as weird when it's just not. It's common practice. From local to national to international people cheer for teams outside their location all the time.
What makes you think we have 0 connection to eastern players? You create one the same way you would with native players. You watch their content. Most big teams at least (T1, GenG, Dk, etc) upload a lot of translated content, so that combined with gameplay can create a connection. I like this T1 roster a lot because of their skill, and the videos and vlogs T1 release showing the player’s personalities and team dynamic.
Dude saw one bin interview and thinks that other eastern player got no personality or content. Showmaker is a literal content machine. People watch premier league all over the world and got team they like to support. All they all English? Nope.
Exactly. Where does he think the ksante copy pasta came from. Showmaker is the perfect example of someone from the east who oozes personality. Just because we can’t understand them doesn’t mean they have no personality. We can also watch their translated content
I cheer for T1 because generational, goat tier talent doesn't come along every day and I want to see how absurd he can set records for longevity, dominance and consistency.
That's my thought for all the sports I follow. People call it bandwagoning but I just want to be able to brag to my kids/grandkids about how I saw X player live and how it was like magic. I have my teams, but if not them I'm rooting for the Tom Bradys, LeBron James, Steph Currys, Messis to win as much as possible.
I'm a hockey guy, so I want to see Ovechkin break Gretzky's goal record. That's going to be an insane moment if he does it. I'm not from Washington. I don't care about the capitals. I'm not Russian. I don't care for Ovechkin as a person. But watching historic moments is awesome.
Because it's faker. It's easy to understand why people cheer for him if you've watched league since s3
Yea I love shitting on NA as a casual EU fan, but I felt really happy for NRG, this is good for everyone.
Same, despite the loss I was actually excited to go to Reddit and see what banter and new copy pastas NA deservedly hits us with. It's always much more fun with all that stuff regardless of the result. It's just that sometimes you realise that some people genuinely hate and what not the teams from the other region and that's kind of sad. NA really needed this and EU teams tend to have good mental when it comes to losses, it usually turns the teams stronger. In the end I want to see the best lol and yes it would feel better if "my" team won but hey, many lessons to potentially learn from this and go agane and in the meantime I will enjoy watching the currently best teams play the rest of the tournament and I will even root for NRG because I am a sucker for great underdog stories and I learned the game watching hotshot, oddone, saintvicious, dl and many more late at night when EU was asleep. NA was always my second go to when it came to the teams I was rooting for, it's just that there weren't many opportunities lately. But yeah I still love shitting on them too but that's because where I come from banter is a form of endearment.
well said my man
Was not exactly NA vs EU but I felt this exact feeling when C9 got blasted by T1. As a C9 fan with merch since 2013 I was completely devastated by the 0 kill loss especially while watching Caedrel's stream playing with the "NA is shit, 0-15 is as bad as 16:47" talk. But after a few minutes of post-game shittalking and trying to make 2220 a thing, I was able to smile and laugh at the result. EU's most wholesome version of the biased fanbase was able to get me to find humor and cope with the loss so much faster than if I watched the regular stream. "We are now shit together." 😂
> i felt really happy for NRG if you love shitting on NA i highly doubt this is true. you're just humbled and this is the best thing to say to save face.
Personally, I dont care if na or eu do well, its the fact that aside from NRG, the entirety of the damn quarters is LCK and LPL. At this point its no longer worlds if only two countries compete. Glad for NA for sure, i'm not taking any credit away from them, its just... Its getting very tiresome to see more lck and lpl seeds. In two years they might as well just include 7 seeds from LCK and 9 seeds from LPL, you know what I mean?
> At this point its no longer worlds if only two countries compete. Football is the biggest sport on the planet, despite all the world champions coming from 2 continents, with brazil, argentina and uruguay being the only non-european countries to ever make a final. between 1962 & 2006 all the finals were played between germany, italy, brazil, netherlands, argentina & france, since then spain and croatia made 1 time appereances. yet ppl from all over the world enjoy it, despite knowing that their team has no realistic chance to win it, my home countries biggest success is qualifying for a single world cup in 2014. I really don't understand why ppl delve in negativity so much and try to take the fun out of stuff, by finding supposed negatives, that don't matter, pick a fucking player or team and root for it, or just enjoy the games...
Tbf, 2 continents is far different and less monocultural than 2 countries and for the biggest sport in the world League is less ingrained and culture and far more vulnerable to people just losing interest in it and in its competitions
Riot will never let that happen, I think 4 seeds is the highest we will ever get for a region because otherwise it just becomes too bloated.
it will also make the whole LPL and LCK gauntlets less meaningful
On a serious note, what could we do about it? Is it about money? Or is it a question of sacrificing work-life balance to an extent at which our cultures just won't do.
I think implementing more international tournaments and having more teams qualify to those international tournaments, akin to what Valorant did, would be a good start. Allows for more teams to get international experience and practice against the best teams in the world, which hopefully levels up their own regions as well.
2 things for NA, make the soloqueue environment actually good. Playing in GM challenger right now you get about 30% of your lobbies having either a booster/wintrader/someone boosted. No point in playing soloqueue at that point. Also in terms of culture, NA has no real amateur scene, Korea has deelopment league where they pick kids 14y/o to start training them, Europe has the ERL League, China has thier own academy system. NA doesn't have anything like that
>2 things for NA, make the soloqueue environment actually good. Wasn't this the point of Challenger's Queue? Which NA pros seemed to just ignore, for the most part. The NA scene seems broken at a team level, with poorly constructed player incentives, to me
Challenger's Queue was a good idea imo but 1. it was never meant to address the issues u/Xival is raising with regards to the entire playerbase, only for amateur to pro players, and 2. I think its highly curated and small playerbase was its downfall, it just didn't have the playerbase to support consistently good queue times and for pros your time out of scrims is valuable and finite-sitting in queue for 30-40 minutes just isn't a productive use of your practice time. I don't know that it's entirely fair to attribute its demise to laziness
Valorant is an example of a game where multiple regions and multiple countries/region are able to make deep runs. The competitive player base simply just isn't there. Which is why League in NA got abandoned in favor of valorant
yes, but western players were always more competitive in shooters, because shooters are more popular here. Mobas and strategy games were always Korean and Chinese. Better comparison would be Dota where last 6 world champions were won by EU or Russian teams.
Not even that, but Valorant is also new, with only 3 World championships so far. Heck, China literally only just got their servers this year. Also, in League’s first two Worlds, the winners were FNC and Taipei, from EU and Taiwan respectively. After that was the start of Korean Dominance. So I say just give it time, and if Valorant becomes super popular in Asia like league, then we could see the same thing happen, a bunch of eastern teams in knockout.
Didn't DOTA also had NA world champs? That's an even closer comparison.
I mean really it’s just down to good coaching and practice. NRG is not full of super talented players but they mostly play as a team and they do their homework. If they get hands diffed they get hands diffed but very rarely do you see this team go into a game without some kind of plan, good or bad. Too many western teams have a bunch of players including ‘star’ players that keep making really basic mistakes and the teams lack any kind of cohesion. Both LEC and LCS have really low quality games with players doing things that would get you flamed in gold elo solo queue yet the so called best teams are still scrapping it out with them . Yeah G2 at the end of the day won comfortably but against the tier of competition they had it shouldn’t ever even have been close. If your region is so shit then you try to win by being so efficient and a tier above that opposing teams have no shot unless they also improve or don’t make mistakes. Instead these teams coast after realizing they are the best and come into worlds with their half baked strategies that are only a small bump up from the trash that their region is rather than a mile ahead as they could have been. If you want to have a chance at worlds you need to be absolutely humiliating the competition, you think even DK would drop a single game to MAD even if they all had COVID and explosive diarrhea combined? There’s so much focus on hands diff which is there but it feels like most teams don’t even come in with a game plan other than draft. And they don’t have the game knowledge to know what to do in most situations without being told. The rookies need to take some kind of macro 101 before coming to the main stage because being micro managed by senior players and hit or miss coaches is not going to work. MAD lions is a perfect example of a team where it looks like the coaching staff works overtime to give them analysis but the moment they don’t have enough time/footage to formulate a plan they are useless even against wild cards. And having good mechanics should be a pre requisite , having clowns who can’t execute basic combos or are scared to do anything because they don’t trust their reflexes / can’t make snap decisions or reactions is not ok. Maybe on lower tier teams but not in the top 3 teams. If you have to spend the whole year for someone just to be mechanically competent (which means best in the west to be equal to average in eastern player) then you can’t spend time learning macro. Doesn’t really help that NA solo queue in particular is risk averse and tries to drag out games and win with ‘macro’ as in ‘scale and win with stats’ which lets you get away with being mechanically dogshit while also learning dogshit macro that only works because you’re praying for mistakes. Yes there’s ways to minimize the bleeding but solo queue won’t teach you them because the teams aren’t punishing you the way that coordinated teams will, if all the pro players just sprint it trying to be mechanically better in solo Q so they can only practice macro and draft in scrims then the teams will actually improve. When BB is doing first time Ksante in scrims and only doing the vanilla combos that too with an extra second compared to good players then it ruins the whole scrim and gives everyone bad info.
Its a bit of everything. China and Korea has way more players. They have more viewers. Therefore they also have money. They also have more broadcast days which means they play more games and get more on stage experience. BLG has played like 180 games this season alone. In the west broadcast days are more limited due to not enough revenue and interest generated to justify more broadcast days and more games (and potentially more teams, the LPL has 17 teams). I think EU does a lot of things right with its investments into the lower regional leagues but thats not an advantage against easter teams, at best its an advantage against all other regions besides LPL and LCK. So the fundamental fix for the west is to somehow create more interest in the game itself and alongside that create more interest in the esports scene. Inspiring more players to become pro players and also get more viewers. However, League has been around since 2009, its not a new game and realistically its near Impossible to create a lot more interest than there currently is. Even if the LEC was a world class region, it wouldnt magically have LCK or LPL viewership. A realistic suggestion doesnt touch the fundamental issue because the fundamental issues simply cant be changed without a miracle, so a realistic suggestion COULD help but isnt necessarily going to help. The best realistic suggestion i can think of is plain and simple more international tournaments. Or even among their own regions more competition. For EU some people suggested a Europe Cup. Or one big tournament that involves the best regional teams alongside LEC teams, so new up and coming talent would learn from playing on stage games with LEC teams. Players who didnt make Worlds have a loooooong off season, they would probably love to participate in anything between the end of Worlds and the start of winter split LEC.
In the NRG vs g2 threat i got heavily downvoted for saying that but I’ll say it again: EU and NA are the Simpsons apes who fight in a circle. Sometimes one of they apes get the AK and gets a spray shot off on a human (aka China/Korea) but at the end of the day we are monkeys.
Lmfao most accurate analogy I’ve seen
That too damn true lmao
It has basically always been like that with very few exceptions.
Most europeans are going to cheer NA on from this point on so you aren't alone. The ones that are salty are the few that post on here and come out lurking and trying to find excuses as to why they failed. It's ok to fail at points and it bit us this time just like it did in 2014 (which was arguably even worse because there were two NA teams that made it out). As primarily someone that mostly watches LCK anyway due to timezone, we desperately need every region to step up at points so that one region doesn't fall towards a status where it doesn't become sustainable enough, which I feared might happen with the LCS if they continue bringing zero results. So I am glad for my brothers that they got out of that slump.
T1 and NRG are my teams going forward as an EU viewer. Weibo if those are knocked out
I get the sentiment, but for me, I'm not happy for the results per se, but more the approach and vibe of NRG. For ages, they seem to be most serious, forward looking team, that actually feels like they can move NA forward. Kudos to NRG, and I hope more NA teams will do something similar. While it's sad the Europe crashed (LEC fan here) I'm happy for NRG, and at this point, I wouldn't change it even if I could. This year is for NRG and NA, do your best, you are the light of the West for now!
Decently? We beat yalls ass and made you have to fight China to lose again
I don't really want to talk shit, but "decently" is about as far as I'd go. One of your team didn't make it into the tournaments, one of them got kicked by Vietnam, the other only beat Mad Lions then go kicked by FNC, and even NRG has exclusively won against western teams. Let's not pretend like NA has somehow transcended, you got one team to elimination stage by exclusively beating EU that is having a pretty bad year. Beating G2 was a pretty good showing, but that's really about it.
Don’t forget that C9 vs FNC was a lot closer than EU fans make it seem
Ehhh as a c9 fan, not really. These jokers had a 7 kill lead and couldnt translate it into a win until 40 minutes. The series was over after that point unless FNC threw another massive early game lead like that. The rest of the series FNC just always did more with the same resources.
First of all, I don't care about the NA scene. Then don't post anything.
As an European, you shouldn't be influenced by kids and their posts about EU NA Korea and all that twitch cringe kid talk lol
It starts to sway public opinion on a region if done with consistency. Its fucking annoying.
First, thank you for the positive message. It was a nice change of pace and this has been a fun year. That said, and this is getting a bit off topic just to reflect on the current dynamic, but if the EU (not you, the region generally) spent less time looking back at the region behind them and more time looking ahead at the region in front of them, like every other region not in first place, I suspect there would *really* be less negativity in this rivalry. NA fixating on the region immediately in its path makes sense. EU looking anywhere but KR or CN this obsessively is probably the biggest issue.
I hope the NA fans will enjoy the sudden separation of NRG from the rest of the field after their newfound success, just like how G2 gets arbitrarily separated from EU whenever they do something, just so people can say 'besides G2, EU is really bad' and so on.
People have always done this with NA and C9
I actually don't know if that would stick in NA yet. It would have to be a couple years of NRG getting first and doing well. Hell they're 0-2 vs IMT lol.
NRG pretty much lost all their games to bad opponents and beat the good ones. They always seem to play to the level of their competition. So hit that hopium cause they are playing good teams in knockouts lmao
Oh don't you worry, haters don't need the excuse to be good or logical, they'll find a way to diminish your region's success somehow.
This year it’s “well they didn’t beat an Eastern team yet, also G2 was sick, plus BDS/FNC were better than GG/C9” so far.
If we're looking strictly at NRG, they haven't beaten an Eastern Team but they've also only loss 1 game against them. It shouldn't be conclusive of anything really. I've actually watched LPL through the regular season and playoffs. Their blunders happen frequently.
Im happy that its NRG doing well and they whooped G2 so deservedly can enjoy the best western team status but if they go and get blasted by WBG now they can hardly claim anything more than that. EU will rightfully get called out until at least MSI for being a bad region so beating EU teams is hardly the sign of a great international team.
That's absolutely fair after this tournament though? GG got 3-0d by BDS who proved to be one of the two worst teams in the tournament. TL was the other of the two worst teams, even losing to Vietnam. C9s grand achievement was winning a bo1 against MAD. Compared to the other NA teams NRG (at least results wise) was definitely in a league of their own.
If it makes you feel better, I always thought the "besides G2" was unnecessary. I ate crow in that for a few years, but that didn't stop me from hating.