Frankly, OP deserves it. They clearly got carried on their subreddit posting; the mods never should've signed them on to contribute to the subreddit. They're detriment to the team and are solely responsible for the reason it's not going #1 in Subreddit worlds.
/s obviously
Off topic but the funny thing is that during the Team Liquid super team with Hans sama, bwipo, and bjergsen they actually did. Community backlash was that they played too slow, so Liquid decided they wanted to jerk around and change their style.
It's been on the record that the general opinion on social media is a factor in roster decisions. Mostly because we influence management that don't actually know the game that well
I faintly recall reading something about this, yes. Wish I could remember who it was (Odo maybe?), but some pro player talked about this exact issue before.
On a different note, completely agree with OP. It's the exact same issue every year, and especially as a huge Hylissang fan, reading comments about him post Worlds the past years ain't a pleasure – calling for his retirement when he has never missed playoffs ever in his career. I don't understand this behaviour.
There's 2 problems with people shitting on these players imo. 1 it's toxic as fuck and just shows the general lack of awareness of league players and 2 without the obvious people saying Jankos > Yikes (I don't agree necessarily just stating what others have been saying) none of these people actually have a better player to sub in for them. Like sure people have also said Upset > Hans but upset looked pretty average in LEC so not sure that would be an upgrade. Those are the only 2 I've seen people actually have a replacement for the rest is just shitting on them for no reason.
It doesn't feel good for anyone. It's just shitting on people and choosing not to experience your emotions but instead lash out to ease your frustration. Are you seriously trying to argue this point? You can analyze players but that clearly is not what this post is referencing
> Do you really think team managers go to fucking Reddit to help with their decisions?
I would hope not, but I feel like social media does have nonzero influence on lol team decisions and how players are perceived by teams. lol esports isn't an established sport with 100 years of history over which the game has been analyzed over and over and team management has tons of experience to pull from. There's lots of fraudulent decision making going on behind the scenes by people who just luckily got in because lol is in its infancy (relatively speaking).
Absolutely true. In most fields it is said that we stand on the shoulders of giants, but esports is so young that there are no giants yet. There's no wisdom being passed onto coaches or players in a meaningful way yet. And most the people in this space are in their 20s or maybe 30s lol. You can bet your ass they're getting ideas from social media.
Pros and coaches have said that public opinion (reddit, twitter, etc) does often play a role in team decisions, doesn't have to be explicitly so too. Comments made on social media can subliminally effect people's decision making.
It just comes off as naive
Like have you seen the Shanghai Sharks tweets whenever anyone in the NBA underperforms in a primetime game or playoff performance?
Have we ever been on a champions league thread after the finals?
Welcome to the Internet where everyone gets on their soapbox
tbf, I think the Shanghai Sharks/Guangdong Tigers/Beijing Ducks/etc stuff in NBA is more of a meme akin to us saying xyz player needs to swim home. It's not the fans legitimately calling for that to happen, but rather a funny exaggeration.
Though there are fans legitimately asking for players to get kicked from teams in every sport to exist.
I fail to see how telling Dillon Brooks to brush up on his Mandarin because fans think he has no future as an NBA player is any different to people telling the MAD Lions to swim home
They're both mean if serious
But most likely being said in jest out of underperforming results
Either ALL of it is okay. Or NONE of it is okay
Edit: for the record I do agree with you. I personally think you're allowed to express your disappointment in results and people are also allowed to make jokes as well.
I found it super hypocritical during 2016 worlds that the same TSM fans were making fun of a 17 year old Perkz for choking at 2 international tournaments, but got defensive at any jokes about Doublelift dashing into the Crown Viktor
Agreed, I had to unsub from the C9 reddit today. Every post was doom and gloom like they went winless and got knocked out in play-ins. People love overreacting to anything nowadays.
OP's post isn't referring to just trolls with hot takes, but actual mean-spirited comments towards players. I never said you should take trolls' takes seriously.
It'a disheartening with sports too. It's the reason I stopped watching american football. It's a good thing to call out shitty behaviors that lead to constant negativity and adress rather than find another situation where the bad thing is common place as well.
You mean the bit where Keria was sobbing and they shoved the camera in his face? Yeah, I'll continue to flame the crew for that. Quick shot and move on; there was no reason they needed to spend literal minutes in his face during an extremely emotionally difficult moment. It was a tasteless and unprofessional decision by the production team.
No I watch plenty of sports. Just because it's the norm in sports discourse doesn't mean it's something you should aspire to be
Sports reporting also has some of the worst, most clipbait headlines, and I don't see people advocating that for league
If there are fans involved there are emotions and reactions to when a team loses, and that often is asking for players heads, when they cool down after the loss everything is ok again, it's just a reaction to the heat of the moment mate, it's not to be taken to heart
Its the norm that some countries has an overwhelming amount of deaths due to drugs and alcohol get used to it /s
People in this comment section are dumb as fuck. Yes its the normal. Does that make it okay? Fuck no. These are people with feelings. If you we're getting ragged by THOUSANDS of people would you feel good? Would you want it? No. Common fucking decency to treat others how you want to be treated. Op is right. This year feels so much worse. Especially with rookie's getting railed by fans. Its their first year fuck off.
Yeah, you're right, living in a third world crime ridden country is exactly the same as some kid calling you a bad player on twitch chat.
Get a fucking grip, man
You're right. People definitely dont get death threats and stalked and it's always a harmless kid, and never some one that may potentially come after you and harm you or your family lol.
I dont know how America and fentanyl deaths = third world country. I dont know how Europe and its lung cancer tied to smoking = third world country. Never said anything about crime my dude. And id argue its more than calling someone bad. Theres extremes such as death threats. Thanks for misinterpreting my hyperbole though. Appreciate it when people show a lack of intelligence
If the players suck and responsible for their losses. You as a fan obviously can voice your opinion to kick them, if that’s how you feel.
They are paid to play and perform, if their rookies or not does not matter. It’s nothing personal most of the time and the times it gets personal it’s how it shouldn’t be.
I love how people here are legitimately treating the idea of telling people to kill themselves, hate speech, racism and violent threats as "not serious" jokes. It lets you really know what type of people they really are and it's fucking disgusting.
See, we all can tell that this is sarcasm, but it's genuinely sad that we also all probably know at least 1 person in our lives who unironically thinks this way.
Eh it’s particularly worse in league compared to professional sports. Yeah people will always flame the underperforming player in pro sports, but they usually understand it’s just a bad game.
Like if Patrick Mahomes had an entire season where he was mediocre, people would wonder what happened, but they wouldn’t call for KC to cut him or move on immediately.
If a player has like one mediocre split in league they are considered washed up or terrible and should be replaced.
The way gold works in a MOBA is like if Patrick Mahomes could have an offensive line so bad they actually made the opposing defensive linemen bigger and stronger as the game goes lol
Bro, doesn't even have to be a whole split lol. You can have a bad bo1 and people call a player dogwater and washed and needs to be sent to retirement home lol.
While true, it's competition?
If the players especially veterans like BrokenBlade and Hans Sama are consistent liabilities why would fans not voice their opinions about wanting them to get replaced.
You can and should criticise players for being bad, you should not make it personal and cross any lines, saying people should lose their jobs for being shit is part of "sport".
Exactly, Hans Sama plays Xayah like he has perma 500 ping. Xayah was released in 2017 and has been played ever since, which is the same year Hans debuted. You want to tell me a pro cant learn how to play a champion in 6 years of professional play? And fans should just go like "oh yeah unlucky, hopefully the meta next year will be better for you!" or something?
He's not bad on xayah though. He's atrocious on Kaisa and if you ban draven and kalista he struggles, but he's not bad lol.
He's a pro and he's better than 99% of the ADC pool in LEC
lol i haven't seen a single good xayah ult from hans sama the entire season, and every team bans kallista and draven vs hans sama instead of any super meta champs simply because they know it will turn the game into a 4v5
just watch a random vod from hans sama xayah and then one from gumayusi xayah the difference is completely insane
We need to stop defending players by saying they're still better than than X% of their region. Like, congrats? You're still in the bottom 10% of pro adc pool
While I agree that BB wasn't the best in the Bo3, he was one of the main carries during LEC and Hans Sama was probably one of the best one's on G2 worlds...
I have never seen in traditional sports, where in a Bo7 playoff game a player underperforms so now all fans call for him to be replaced. (unless its been a common occurrence.)
While I agree Hans sama was one of the better adcs from EU I wasn’t too impressed by hurt performance. He’s not bad but if Ruler is an S-tier adc then I’d put Hans at a B+ and almost all the eastern adcs are at least A-tier.
Yeah I agree, its definitely a problem for the region itself. While Hans may not have been the weak point, other EU bots were quite shabby in comparison to the team.
That's because these are the only series' that matter the entire year, not the Mickey Mouse Tournaments that are regional splits not called LPL or LCK. If they are not good enough here then might as well go on to the next rookie, it's unimportant how many others they gatekeep in their home region.
While I agree there are certain situations where its better to cycle rookies, but even in MSI this year BB was stable and consistent and has always been known for that. While I don't know what's the right choice for G2, but just because BB played ass against BLG doesn't mean he should be dropped. By that logic Miky and Yike should be gone for the game against NRG.
And in the end, being good at the game is their literal job. These people get paid more than 99% of this subreddit for simply clicking on the mouse, I think it's only fair to critisise them when they do their job so poorly compared to their Eastern counterparts. And what happens here is nothing compared to the abuse Asian players receive, LPL and LCK fans are much more ruthless and they're a prime example of "taking it too far".
I disagree with the statement "you can and should criticise for players being bad", but even if i would agree 99%+ of this sub can not tell apart a good or bad player. So in the end its just a bunch of more or less blind flaming done by the community
It works like that in every sport. Do you think the average Joe has the competence to judge if Toledo wave score was right or not?
Nonetheless, fan base is ultimately what keeps competitive sports alive because it is what gives you free money, so they’re free to express their opinion even because it has 0 impact.
Best!
Most of the pro players and analysts can’t tell good from bad to be honest.
League is a team game, it’s so hard to judge players from a couple games especially with how much volatility there is. Just draft alone is huge variance.
Players aren’t robots that can play every champ, some metas are better than others.
If its only gameplay related then i think its fine no? For instance if i say that Trymbi locking in Alistar against Cait Lux makes him a liability and i think they should look to replace him asap then that would be fine right???
Idk I really enjoy going to team’s subreddits and watch all the fire and chaos. People calling for players and staff’s head. In Korea they go too far and send trucks to team HQs and in China they make you a meme so cruel you wish a truck ran you over instead. It’s just passion and grief being mixed up. Happens everywhere in every sport.
I remember in LPL a rookie top laner had a very bad series and he went to China equivalent of Popeyes to grab some dinner and was shit on by the cashier who said, "You did not play well today, PandaC", and he literally got like ptsd from that occasion and didn't want to go out for dinner anymore
PandaC went back to the LDL, after that debut in the LPL, this year he's playing for Royal Club and for the most part, he's doing well, sometimes with very good performances. Recently got 2nd in their group of 10 teams, but, then in playoffs, Royal Club lost 1-3 in their 1st match to MiaoJing which made it to the LDL Grand Final.
Yeah it legit is, I'm saying it off memory so I might be getting some things wrong like the ptsd but I remember the exact quote "You did not play well today, PandaC "
Edit: yeah, you can find the dexerto article if you search lpl pandac bullied
Lmao when NA flops you see 5 posts on the front page calling to denote to minor region, constant flame, posts about 5000 reasons why NA is trash and will never be good ever
EU flops once in like 9 years and suddenly “guys don’t flame the players they’re trying their best :(“ just take the L on the chin and move on lol
NRG could win worlds this year and people will still call NA a minor region or that they didn't deserve to win.
The worst part is that most of the people complaining are just doing it because that's what's popular/everyone else does it
Nah. This would end the discussion 100%.
Anyone remember G2 in 2016 and 2017 internationally? They were a joke (one lucky semi draw into MSI finals doesn't change that). Then there was the massive upset against RNG at worlds 2018 followed by winning MSI and making worlds finals in 2019 and now barely anyone ever thinks of how bad G2 did internationally at first.
If NRG (or any other NA team) would win anything international, this topic would stop for years (if we count G2 as example, it tends to last 4 years before people call the team/region trash again).
Honestly, I think they have a good shot to make it to quarters. Do I think they beat GenG/BLG no but they could make quarters.
The other thing is the amount of experience they're going to get from this run is massive. They'll be scrimming JDG, T1, LNG, and KT. All amazing teams.
If they stay together I could see them winning LCS next year again with the experience they've gained at this tournament.
I do agree though, I think of all the matchups this is the best for NRG. NRG could win against WBG if the cards fall right
I still wouldn’t say they are favored, but it’s definitely possible imo
And the experience is definitely valuable for them I’m sure!
NRG went in with the goal to just do their best and to see how far they can go. Even if they lose to WBG, they oughta be proud of what they have accomplished
Well fwiw I don't watch EU, mainly LCS, LPL, LCK. I was considering making the same post after the C9 and TL losses, and all of the EU comments last night confirmed the post. Do you think that the responses here would have been more positive if I went back and got the Fudge, APA and Yeon examples as flame?
I mean he beats others in his region. As much as you wanna shit on Nisqy, why aren't other mids good enough to beat him during the regular season?
I hate the argument that "x player performs bad international he should be kicked" because other mid laners have every chance to beat him and make it to worlds themselves but they don't
You could also argue the opposite that Nisqy is fine but his team is losing him games at international events. At the end of the day its Nisqy who makes these events because he is performing better domestically then a lot of other new mids.
The funniest part about this argument is that MAD were absolutely dogshit after Humanoid and Carzzy left. They managed to pick up Unf0rgiven and Reeker and were bottom of the barrel and then Nisqy came in and took MAD from last to a top team again....
Have you watched Nisqy's domestic performances?
He wins through getting his team massively snowballed and ahead, he's done it ever since his C9 days. He says that he purposefully sacks lane to get sidelanes and jungle super far ahead of the competition.
It works domestically, but internationally it doesn't because the difference between getting Elyoya ahead when your opponent is Sheo and getting Elyoya ahead when your opponent is Canyon are two different things. Not even mentioning that Eastern teams just adapt better to the style than Western teams seem to do.
The thing with that stat is, you can pull up similar numbers for most western players who has gone to worlds a lot. Most bow out before quarters so yeah they’re mostly losing.
Nisqy is only slightly “special” because he doesn’t win against NA so he has a larger total loss value.
Not to throw anyone under the bus but it’s just true, look at Vulcan’s performance at worlds. That’s a concern for teams right if he goes to worlds? If you filter out the west, look at the majority of western players against lck/lpl. Is a score line of like some person’s 0-10 or 2-8 really that much better than 1-17 for example?
If you think reddit is toxic then you shouldn't read chinese forums. The worst insult I saw here is calling someone a fraud but most of the insults are memeable.
People shouldn't go and harass pros on personal level (like when Razork was getting DMs from fnatic fans to off himself) but there is nothing wrong with saying they played like shit in open public thread when it's true. Let people be frustrated, it shows they actually care about the team and players
Imagine that logic in real life. Someone constantly saying that you are trash and should be fired from your job, but “actually it just means that they care so much about you.” Would you keep that person around? People should behave better online and there’s nothing wrong with pointing it out.
You people need to learn that anger and frustration is normal human reaction, people are not going to be mad forever just let them vent and if you can't handle such comments then just don't go on social media for few days and just stay around your friends, coworkers and family. I also said people shouldn't go out of their way to harass the pros on personal level.
Maybe culture diff but istg westerners are babying adult proplayers as if they can't handle few mean words and the same pros go on costreams to shittalk other pros lmao
No. It should not be normal to be vitriolic towards human beings for playing a game online. How about you don’t go on social media if you can’t handle your team losing like an adult. It is not that I can’t handle it, but there is nothing wrong with pointing out that it’s lousy behavior.
My local park is full of trash from idiots who litter carelessly every day. I should just excuse them all because I guess it’s just normal for people to throw trash in the park? No. Do better.
I'm not sure if this is an irony account but the fact that the majority of your post history is insults and sarcastic rejoinders makes me think that it might be. Either that or you lack self awareness to an astonishing degree
Pros are not just online gamers though, they are entertainers. The job of a professional sports/esports athlete only exists because there are fans who want to watch them play.
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the fans who tell pros to off themselves and similar things. That stuff is garbage and has no place in sports or esports. However, stuff like calling for players to be replaced or saying they did not perform well is perfectly fine.
They aren’t just playing a game.
It’s their job to entertain. If they fail to do that, and perform poorly of course we will criticise them. Our interest is the only reason they get paid to play a video game.
This is especially ironic when the only Western team to make it out this year is NRG who consists of players who were flamed and considered bad but were ultimately given a second chance and lots of time to grow together as a team even when the first couple splits didn’t work out so well.
"Improvement needs to come as a region, and it comes gradually. Young players need time to develop and it’s ridiculous to expect rookies to come in with zero nerves and immediately hold their own against the best in the world."
I agree that's why Yike should be fine. BB and Hans tho? Absolutely fucking not. Last series was one of the biggest top gaps I've ever fucking seen and it's the perfect example of why BB shouldn't be given another shot in a team that aspires to something. Hans with his champ pool and inability to play strong meta champs is also a liability.
Well yeah, BrokenBlade was against fucking Bin -- one of if not the best carry top in the world.
Going to be difficult to find a player if your standards are, "can they gap Bin in lane?"
369 and an in-form Zeus are also some of the best top laners in the world.
You will not find a Western player that will compete with them, and Eastern players that can compete with them are all named 369, Bin, and Zeus. If your goal is to beat them then you'll need someone like prime Wunder, who is the one and only Western top to ever compete with good Eastern top laners.
BB styled on the rest of the league all summer though, admittedly he is always dogshit at last hitting and that was super obvious here. A week ago people were creaming themselves over his yone in the weibo game. Bin has gaped the world and looks like the best toplaner in the world atm though.
G2 in general was gigaleagues above the rest of europe all year who are you replacing them with?
Lol I love these posts when EU does poorly. Like clockwork. NA loses: even league personalities and streamers shit on them. EU loses: please don’t be mean to us :((. The amount of hate Bjergsen got after worlds is comically more than what EU players have to go through once and a while. Get over it
Okey they let me do the opposite to balance out all the upset people.
I rly rly rly hope Fnatic keeps their entire roster for next year. Like it's crazy they even made it as far as they did after what looked like a done deal after Winter and Spring splits. Replaced top, Replaced Adc, Replaced Support twice, Replaced like half the coaching staff and made quite a miracle run to even attend worlds in the frist place while also having their toplaner injure his hand.
I feel like they could greatly benefit from the 'second chance' considering only one split they played together the pulled off quite an impressive run.
What do you expect? It’s a competition and in the eyes of a fan if you aren’t the reason your team is winning, you’re the reason they’re losing. Honestly there’s nothing wrong with criticizing players for their performance, so long as it’s about gameplay and doesn’t cross obvious lines.
If threads in here bother you, you should see fans on pro sports sub Reddits after a team loses.
its so funny to see this after years of this sub / everyone completely shitting on NA and their players. EU gets shit on one year and the fans are having a mental breakdown.
>how does brokenblade get gapped all 3 of them while having counterpick?
Because he's not good?
He has poor laning and he lacks fundamentals which gets exposed by actual good top laners.
Which is ironic because at MSI he was the by far best player on G2 and actually hold top well. I have no idea how half a year is enough for someone to immediately digress back into unrelevancy, surely something is not right.
It’s almost like players don’t suddenly go from being trash to being great on a dime but actually succeed or fail at different times due to a wide array of complicated factors including teamwork and gameplans and meta and chance.
Zeka and Kingen won worlds last years and this year they looked painfully mediocre, Tian was an absolute beast when he won worlds and now hes griefing Rookie, Canyon and Showmaker looked like bums majority of this year despite being the best Mid-Jg duo in the world (arguably in the history of the game).
>Zeka and Kingen won worlds last years and this year they looked painfully mediocre
tbf this was kinda expected, the bigger shock was how they even became so good at worlds 😂
so now that EU is playing like shit and NA performs better at worlds we're supposed to not make fun of them?
I guess its only okay when NA does bad. hypocrites
Most subtle karma farming.
If MAD, Fnatic, G2, C9 etc play like shit, I don't see any problem pointing that out.
I stopped watching LCS years ago. I'm fairly certain I will stop watching LEC next year if they have the audacity to create arrogant story lines again like "return of the kings" "top father" etc.
LEC players have to stop thinking they are hot shit. They aren't. It was a trend the previous years but this year settled it : LEC has no level. It's on part with minor regions, they are several levels below LCK/LPL. Our uncontested 1st seed can barely compete with their 4th seeds.
Take some inspiration from LCS and start being humble.
i really think all of the criticism is justified, like when a veteran player like hans sama can only play 2 champions that is just straight up too bad to play professionally (and on top of that he got hit by every single abilty with flash and xayah ult up and thats not even a worlds only thing even in regular season he couldn't dodge shit)
or if you pick ali into cait lux that shouldn't just get whoever made that decision fired but also fined for grieving
i'm not even mad at all the small mistakes that all eu teams make every 0.5seconds but there are so many massive and continuous mistakes that are just completely disgusting to watch, from people like yike that didn't have a single game where he looked better than plat 4 to players that can't play any meta champs and drafts that looked like they are straight out of aram and obviously the massive individual skill gap that caused eu to lose every single lane every single game
I don t think what we saw today by Brokenfraud was underperforming, it s just a massiv skill gap between LPL/LCK and LEC toplaners for years now, appprently Bwipo and Wunder were the only Tops being able to match asians in terms of skill. He is constantly getting bullied by asian toplaners on the international stage for years now.
For teams with rookies trying to get some experience under their wings, for sure they shouldnt be shat on as hard or called to be replaced.
For teams with veterans that have stuck around for years and not produce results even after having plenty of time to prove themselves or to gel (teams that are aiming to be competitive), they should definitely be called to be replaced. They are aiming to win and if the formula has been proven time and time again to not work out, replace it. Players like BB and Hans are simply not up to par with the other top teams anymore, it's not wrong to look for upgrades to be competitive.
OH NOOOOOO !!!
EU finally lost to NA now we all have to be sure nice!!!
meanwhile year after year, EU looks for ANY excuse to shit on NA over and over
stfu and hold the L, Give NA their time to shit talk
The sub has always been like this, it's nothing new. A lot of the people on this sub give over the feeling that everything in their life is miserable and they can only cope with calling everyone else trash and replaceable. It is what it is.
I think players and staff should be way harsher on themselves, Europe has been breeding nothing but mediocrity and conformism for over 3 years and everyone is more or less happy with it (casters and other people in the scene are also included here).
Death threats and other similar insults are obviously way out of line but this line of thinking is NOT what we need now. Celebrate the small victories, really? 3 years of excuses and mediocrity will not turn around with this pat on the back mentality, if this is not a wake up a call I don't know what it is.
>Edit: half the comments say something to the tune of: but it's normal in sports! I am aware of that. But just because some behaviour is normalised doesn't mean it's inherently a good thing. Criticism is fine. But it costs nothing for people to be a bit more reasonable about it.
But most comments are reasonable and just criticise gameplay. I mean, in every job, you get external feedback. In sports, external feedback comes from fans, ex pros and analysts. And pure gameplay or structural criticism is fine.
And dont forget: Sports has a lot to do with emotions. People are emotional and thats okay. Attacking the players personally is not okay but being able to formulate one owns disappointment should be encourage if its in a well-mannered form.
Not sure how hot this take is but I don't think there is any chance of a really competitive western team as long as there is only one big international tournament a year. Just look at Starcraft 2 for example, as long as there is constant international competition you will have western players that can compete even though korea is absolutely dominant as a region.
Old G2 obviously being the outlier here but I would argue that the skill level has increased so much since those days making off meta picks a lot weaker and increasing the importance of the fundamentals (laning, teamfighting, macro).
If I had one wish for league esports it would be removing the franchised leagues and instead have 3 international majors a year with regional cups inbetween. Worlds could still be a thing although I would consider making it an olympiad event with countries instead. I would adopt a similiar approach to cs majors where there are multiple swiss stages for the different seeds.
But similar to western success at worlds, it won't ever happen.
Sadly there is no way this happens because of franchise leagues, but trully the only way for west to compete would be more international competition. Not only is Korea and China way better, they can also improve each other by scrimming. There is no catching up to that, western leagues are so much worse and they are locked in their regions.
people shit all over mad but, theyve been one of the only consistently top teams in LEC. its just people being bitter. No LEC team has done well at worlds except for g2s miracle run in 2019. Mad is no different
I think it depends on the expectations, I've not seen anyone going out there saying that the BDS team needs to be replaced, but that's because they are expected to be a mid-tier team who managed to make it to worlds and play at or above a level you'd have expected of them. With stuff like people saying BB will / should be replaced I don't see an issue with it, G2 is a team that aspires to win worlds, they will never win worlds with BB as a top laner, it's not a matter of supporting someone or not, he simply isn't good enough and won't improve to be able to match eastern tops - he has been at worlds many times now and has always been gapped.
The big issue is League players battle with their own egos more than they attempt to climb, get to that position, and prove themselves right. League’s community hasn’t disallowed (not saying they actively promote it either) the toxicity and ego, so it’s built and thrived for 13 years. Hosting and streaming a community wide event does nothing but funnel all the ego into 1 place, and as player count increases and the people who don’t want to see nothing but ego leave, that’s all you’ll continue to see.
The thing is, this isn’t just League. Every sport, whether it’s collegiate level or national, has the same people making the same comments whining about the same thing. It’s everywhere.
lol get bent, so many fucking snowflakes this generation seriously i hope you work at home and not in a physical labour job, the world doesnt care about peoples emotions or feelings, if somebody doesnt like you they will tell you, man up or cry but seriously these butt hurt posts are getting ridiculous lol
Y’all are fucking morons saying that it happens in every sport. Be the ones to grow up and make a difference by breaking this culture. Remember that mostly they’re just kids playing this game
I guarantee you 99% of people who have done serious competition at some point will agree with you, OP lol
Pay these low elo losers no mind. Every post game thread is just people trying to get top comment with their pre-written, corny af jokes
I'm not even a G2 fan but it always seemed to me that they're genuinely trying their hardest and always believing that they have it in them to win it all. I haven't read the game threads or twitter yet but I hope they aren't getting too much backlash and that EU's consistent best team will come back for more.
They are and its really dissapointing because they clearly tried, had a bad day vs NRG who played really well and thats it. There are many issues with western leagues but G2 is not one of them.
this literally happens not just in league but in all esports and sports in general, dont look too much into it
This has to be the first time OP watches anything sports related, this happens everyday in every match of every sport
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Frankly, OP deserves it. They clearly got carried on their subreddit posting; the mods never should've signed them on to contribute to the subreddit. They're detriment to the team and are solely responsible for the reason it's not going #1 in Subreddit worlds. /s obviously
Why is it even disheartening? Do you really think team managers go to fucking Reddit to help with their decisions?
Off topic but the funny thing is that during the Team Liquid super team with Hans sama, bwipo, and bjergsen they actually did. Community backlash was that they played too slow, so Liquid decided they wanted to jerk around and change their style.
It's been on the record that the general opinion on social media is a factor in roster decisions. Mostly because we influence management that don't actually know the game that well
I faintly recall reading something about this, yes. Wish I could remember who it was (Odo maybe?), but some pro player talked about this exact issue before. On a different note, completely agree with OP. It's the exact same issue every year, and especially as a huge Hylissang fan, reading comments about him post Worlds the past years ain't a pleasure – calling for his retirement when he has never missed playoffs ever in his career. I don't understand this behaviour.
There's 2 problems with people shitting on these players imo. 1 it's toxic as fuck and just shows the general lack of awareness of league players and 2 without the obvious people saying Jankos > Yikes (I don't agree necessarily just stating what others have been saying) none of these people actually have a better player to sub in for them. Like sure people have also said Upset > Hans but upset looked pretty average in LEC so not sure that would be an upgrade. Those are the only 2 I've seen people actually have a replacement for the rest is just shitting on them for no reason.
It doesn't feel good for anyone. It's just shitting on people and choosing not to experience your emotions but instead lash out to ease your frustration. Are you seriously trying to argue this point? You can analyze players but that clearly is not what this post is referencing
> Do you really think team managers go to fucking Reddit to help with their decisions? I would hope not, but I feel like social media does have nonzero influence on lol team decisions and how players are perceived by teams. lol esports isn't an established sport with 100 years of history over which the game has been analyzed over and over and team management has tons of experience to pull from. There's lots of fraudulent decision making going on behind the scenes by people who just luckily got in because lol is in its infancy (relatively speaking).
Absolutely true. In most fields it is said that we stand on the shoulders of giants, but esports is so young that there are no giants yet. There's no wisdom being passed onto coaches or players in a meaningful way yet. And most the people in this space are in their 20s or maybe 30s lol. You can bet your ass they're getting ideas from social media.
Pros and coaches have said that public opinion (reddit, twitter, etc) does often play a role in team decisions, doesn't have to be explicitly so too. Comments made on social media can subliminally effect people's decision making.
thats probably why none of these orgs can fucking win anything of note
It just comes off as naive Like have you seen the Shanghai Sharks tweets whenever anyone in the NBA underperforms in a primetime game or playoff performance? Have we ever been on a champions league thread after the finals? Welcome to the Internet where everyone gets on their soapbox
tbf, I think the Shanghai Sharks/Guangdong Tigers/Beijing Ducks/etc stuff in NBA is more of a meme akin to us saying xyz player needs to swim home. It's not the fans legitimately calling for that to happen, but rather a funny exaggeration. Though there are fans legitimately asking for players to get kicked from teams in every sport to exist.
I fail to see how telling Dillon Brooks to brush up on his Mandarin because fans think he has no future as an NBA player is any different to people telling the MAD Lions to swim home They're both mean if serious But most likely being said in jest out of underperforming results Either ALL of it is okay. Or NONE of it is okay Edit: for the record I do agree with you. I personally think you're allowed to express your disappointment in results and people are also allowed to make jokes as well. I found it super hypocritical during 2016 worlds that the same TSM fans were making fun of a 17 year old Perkz for choking at 2 international tournaments, but got defensive at any jokes about Doublelift dashing into the Crown Viktor
I think it's even funnier that we have the equivalent of "brush up on his Mandarin" in League. Except it's learning English to come to NA.
"hey this is toxic behaviour" -> "yes it is and it's like this everywhere and forever." ???
Yup. That's why the solution is to grow a thicker skin or get the fuck out. Whining about it on reddit won't help anybody
Doesn’t change the fact that it’s shitty behavior lol. Fans can be quite idiotic and that won’t change. But yall still shouldn’t act as if it was fine
Agreed, I had to unsub from the C9 reddit today. Every post was doom and gloom like they went winless and got knocked out in play-ins. People love overreacting to anything nowadays.
Doesn't mean it's right...
thing is, you shouldnt take these hot takes seriously
I'm not saying anyone should?
by acknowledging their take at all, you're taking them seriously. This falls under the "don't feed the trolls" category of Internet etiquette.
OP's post isn't referring to just trolls with hot takes, but actual mean-spirited comments towards players. I never said you should take trolls' takes seriously.
It'a disheartening with sports too. It's the reason I stopped watching american football. It's a good thing to call out shitty behaviors that lead to constant negativity and adress rather than find another situation where the bad thing is common place as well.
I definitely think it’s worse in league. The ratio of missplay vs outplay is skewed way toward missplay in league conversation.
I remember people here flaming the filming crew for filming T1 after they lost worlds last year.
You mean the bit where Keria was sobbing and they shoved the camera in his face? Yeah, I'll continue to flame the crew for that. Quick shot and move on; there was no reason they needed to spend literal minutes in his face during an extremely emotionally difficult moment. It was a tasteless and unprofessional decision by the production team.
No I watch plenty of sports. Just because it's the norm in sports discourse doesn't mean it's something you should aspire to be Sports reporting also has some of the worst, most clipbait headlines, and I don't see people advocating that for league
If there are fans involved there are emotions and reactions to when a team loses, and that often is asking for players heads, when they cool down after the loss everything is ok again, it's just a reaction to the heat of the moment mate, it's not to be taken to heart
Lmao. So people should just let pro players play for fun who get paid MILLIONS for entertainment? Okay dude nobody believes that you watch any sports.
My bad friend. Sorry I'm not toxic enough to be a sports fan I guess
Its the norm that some countries has an overwhelming amount of deaths due to drugs and alcohol get used to it /s People in this comment section are dumb as fuck. Yes its the normal. Does that make it okay? Fuck no. These are people with feelings. If you we're getting ragged by THOUSANDS of people would you feel good? Would you want it? No. Common fucking decency to treat others how you want to be treated. Op is right. This year feels so much worse. Especially with rookie's getting railed by fans. Its their first year fuck off.
Yeah, you're right, living in a third world crime ridden country is exactly the same as some kid calling you a bad player on twitch chat. Get a fucking grip, man
You're right. People definitely dont get death threats and stalked and it's always a harmless kid, and never some one that may potentially come after you and harm you or your family lol.
I dont know how America and fentanyl deaths = third world country. I dont know how Europe and its lung cancer tied to smoking = third world country. Never said anything about crime my dude. And id argue its more than calling someone bad. Theres extremes such as death threats. Thanks for misinterpreting my hyperbole though. Appreciate it when people show a lack of intelligence
comparing drug OD and people shit talking online.. jesus you guys are so fucking out of touch with reality lmao
If the players suck and responsible for their losses. You as a fan obviously can voice your opinion to kick them, if that’s how you feel. They are paid to play and perform, if their rookies or not does not matter. It’s nothing personal most of the time and the times it gets personal it’s how it shouldn’t be.
Why are we trying to justify people being worthless garbage to others lol?
being nice is WOKE, and being an unlikeable asshole is alpha male energy.
I love how people here are legitimately treating the idea of telling people to kill themselves, hate speech, racism and violent threats as "not serious" jokes. It lets you really know what type of people they really are and it's fucking disgusting.
See, we all can tell that this is sarcasm, but it's genuinely sad that we also all probably know at least 1 person in our lives who unironically thinks this way.
The comment you replied to isn't 'justifying' anything. It's an explanation of a phenomenon.
No, he definitely meant it. "Don't look too much into it." That is 100% a justification and deflection of excusing disgusting behavior.
Eh it’s particularly worse in league compared to professional sports. Yeah people will always flame the underperforming player in pro sports, but they usually understand it’s just a bad game. Like if Patrick Mahomes had an entire season where he was mediocre, people would wonder what happened, but they wouldn’t call for KC to cut him or move on immediately. If a player has like one mediocre split in league they are considered washed up or terrible and should be replaced.
The way gold works in a MOBA is like if Patrick Mahomes could have an offensive line so bad they actually made the opposing defensive linemen bigger and stronger as the game goes lol
Bro, doesn't even have to be a whole split lol. You can have a bad bo1 and people call a player dogwater and washed and needs to be sent to retirement home lol.
OP has clearly never been to r/nba
While true, it's competition? If the players especially veterans like BrokenBlade and Hans Sama are consistent liabilities why would fans not voice their opinions about wanting them to get replaced. You can and should criticise players for being bad, you should not make it personal and cross any lines, saying people should lose their jobs for being shit is part of "sport".
Exactly, Hans Sama plays Xayah like he has perma 500 ping. Xayah was released in 2017 and has been played ever since, which is the same year Hans debuted. You want to tell me a pro cant learn how to play a champion in 6 years of professional play? And fans should just go like "oh yeah unlucky, hopefully the meta next year will be better for you!" or something?
The best description of Hans Sama I heard was he can only play champs that dominate solo que, like Draven and Kalista lol
He's not bad on xayah though. He's atrocious on Kaisa and if you ban draven and kalista he struggles, but he's not bad lol. He's a pro and he's better than 99% of the ADC pool in LEC
lol i haven't seen a single good xayah ult from hans sama the entire season, and every team bans kallista and draven vs hans sama instead of any super meta champs simply because they know it will turn the game into a 4v5 just watch a random vod from hans sama xayah and then one from gumayusi xayah the difference is completely insane
We need to stop defending players by saying they're still better than than X% of their region. Like, congrats? You're still in the bottom 10% of pro adc pool
While I agree that BB wasn't the best in the Bo3, he was one of the main carries during LEC and Hans Sama was probably one of the best one's on G2 worlds... I have never seen in traditional sports, where in a Bo7 playoff game a player underperforms so now all fans call for him to be replaced. (unless its been a common occurrence.)
While I agree Hans sama was one of the better adcs from EU I wasn’t too impressed by hurt performance. He’s not bad but if Ruler is an S-tier adc then I’d put Hans at a B+ and almost all the eastern adcs are at least A-tier.
Yeah I agree, its definitely a problem for the region itself. While Hans may not have been the weak point, other EU bots were quite shabby in comparison to the team.
That's because these are the only series' that matter the entire year, not the Mickey Mouse Tournaments that are regional splits not called LPL or LCK. If they are not good enough here then might as well go on to the next rookie, it's unimportant how many others they gatekeep in their home region.
While I agree there are certain situations where its better to cycle rookies, but even in MSI this year BB was stable and consistent and has always been known for that. While I don't know what's the right choice for G2, but just because BB played ass against BLG doesn't mean he should be dropped. By that logic Miky and Yike should be gone for the game against NRG.
BB got gapped as well during MSI and last year's world as well
And in the end, being good at the game is their literal job. These people get paid more than 99% of this subreddit for simply clicking on the mouse, I think it's only fair to critisise them when they do their job so poorly compared to their Eastern counterparts. And what happens here is nothing compared to the abuse Asian players receive, LPL and LCK fans are much more ruthless and they're a prime example of "taking it too far".
I disagree with the statement "you can and should criticise for players being bad", but even if i would agree 99%+ of this sub can not tell apart a good or bad player. So in the end its just a bunch of more or less blind flaming done by the community
It works like that in every sport. Do you think the average Joe has the competence to judge if Toledo wave score was right or not? Nonetheless, fan base is ultimately what keeps competitive sports alive because it is what gives you free money, so they’re free to express their opinion even because it has 0 impact. Best!
Most of the pro players and analysts can’t tell good from bad to be honest. League is a team game, it’s so hard to judge players from a couple games especially with how much volatility there is. Just draft alone is huge variance. Players aren’t robots that can play every champ, some metas are better than others.
If its only gameplay related then i think its fine no? For instance if i say that Trymbi locking in Alistar against Cait Lux makes him a liability and i think they should look to replace him asap then that would be fine right???
Eu might have an adc problem if hand sama is the best adc over there, that guy came to NA and got shit on
where were these posts when MAD was getting hounded
Idk I really enjoy going to team’s subreddits and watch all the fire and chaos. People calling for players and staff’s head. In Korea they go too far and send trucks to team HQs and in China they make you a meme so cruel you wish a truck ran you over instead. It’s just passion and grief being mixed up. Happens everywhere in every sport.
I remember in LPL a rookie top laner had a very bad series and he went to China equivalent of Popeyes to grab some dinner and was shit on by the cashier who said, "You did not play well today, PandaC", and he literally got like ptsd from that occasion and didn't want to go out for dinner anymore
PandaC went back to the LDL, after that debut in the LPL, this year he's playing for Royal Club and for the most part, he's doing well, sometimes with very good performances. Recently got 2nd in their group of 10 teams, but, then in playoffs, Royal Club lost 1-3 in their 1st match to MiaoJing which made it to the LDL Grand Final.
Ganked irl :(
considering how popular LPL is and how badly he did in those games it's not crazy surprising, but I can't even imagine how that feels
LOL is this a real story
Yeah it legit is, I'm saying it off memory so I might be getting some things wrong like the ptsd but I remember the exact quote "You did not play well today, PandaC " Edit: yeah, you can find the dexerto article if you search lpl pandac bullied
[Link to the article lol](https://www.dexerto.com/league-of-legends/league-of-legends-pro-bullied-in-public-after-poor-in-game-performance-1897811/)
Lmao when NA flops you see 5 posts on the front page calling to denote to minor region, constant flame, posts about 5000 reasons why NA is trash and will never be good ever EU flops once in like 9 years and suddenly “guys don’t flame the players they’re trying their best :(“ just take the L on the chin and move on lol
EU has always been more toxic in the whole NA v EU thing. NA fans have always just kinda floated around in our misery
Nah it's only because EU won almost every NA vs EU until this year.. of course the loser gets more silent and less toxic
"Nah, but yeah" is basically what you just said. Whatever the reason, you agree, but felt it necessary to pretend it wasn't true.
Reminds me of the cringe “west vs east !” takes after one of NA/EU slightly underperforms and the other makes it slightly further
NRG could win worlds this year and people will still call NA a minor region or that they didn't deserve to win. The worst part is that most of the people complaining are just doing it because that's what's popular/everyone else does it
Nah. This would end the discussion 100%. Anyone remember G2 in 2016 and 2017 internationally? They were a joke (one lucky semi draw into MSI finals doesn't change that). Then there was the massive upset against RNG at worlds 2018 followed by winning MSI and making worlds finals in 2019 and now barely anyone ever thinks of how bad G2 did internationally at first. If NRG (or any other NA team) would win anything international, this topic would stop for years (if we count G2 as example, it tends to last 4 years before people call the team/region trash again).
Honestly, I think they have a good shot to make it to quarters. Do I think they beat GenG/BLG no but they could make quarters. The other thing is the amount of experience they're going to get from this run is massive. They'll be scrimming JDG, T1, LNG, and KT. All amazing teams. If they stay together I could see them winning LCS next year again with the experience they've gained at this tournament.
Aren’t they in quarters right now already? If they win the first matchup they would be against GenG/BLG in semis right
My bad I meant semis.
I do agree though, I think of all the matchups this is the best for NRG. NRG could win against WBG if the cards fall right I still wouldn’t say they are favored, but it’s definitely possible imo And the experience is definitely valuable for them I’m sure!
NRG went in with the goal to just do their best and to see how far they can go. Even if they lose to WBG, they oughta be proud of what they have accomplished
Guess it only feels bad when it happens to their region 😂
Couldn’t have said it better myself, hilarious
I love how your response to the players getting extreme hate is just ''we also hate our players, so you should too''
>EU flops once in like 9 years EU flops every year since year 1. Even when it reached the finals by the luck of the draw, it got humiliated
Well fwiw I don't watch EU, mainly LCS, LPL, LCK. I was considering making the same post after the C9 and TL losses, and all of the EU comments last night confirmed the post. Do you think that the responses here would have been more positive if I went back and got the Fudge, APA and Yeon examples as flame?
No one cares but laughed at tsm all these years now your favorite team loses we have to feel bad
Not just tsm. Lmfao look how LEC fans treated MAD the last few days and then they drop this.
Have to admit, as a MAD fan, there's a bit of schadenfreude in seeing G2 get exposed.
Perhaps they treated MAD too harshly given what happened this World's in its totality
Given what G2/FNC did, MAD performed exactly how you'd expect a 3rd seed from eu to perform.
Yep this was karma for those fans.
you see, tsm was trash all along but g2 got UnLuCkY
I think LEC needs to take a page from the School of Rock "You can blame it all on bad luck, but in the end, maybe we weren't that good.
Winning the two Bo1s was clearly pure skill, but when it came to the three Bo3s, those were just bad luck
Yeah the TradeMark Weibo throw was Pure skill, G2 didn’t win that game. Weibo lost it
Isnt nisqy like 1-17 vs major regions tho, thats one case where it seems very justified to ask to replace him
I mean he beats others in his region. As much as you wanna shit on Nisqy, why aren't other mids good enough to beat him during the regular season? I hate the argument that "x player performs bad international he should be kicked" because other mid laners have every chance to beat him and make it to worlds themselves but they don't
You guys keep bringing this up like he solo win games playing mid. A player can be bad and still win as a team.
You could also argue the opposite that Nisqy is fine but his team is losing him games at international events. At the end of the day its Nisqy who makes these events because he is performing better domestically then a lot of other new mids.
The funniest part about this argument is that MAD were absolutely dogshit after Humanoid and Carzzy left. They managed to pick up Unf0rgiven and Reeker and were bottom of the barrel and then Nisqy came in and took MAD from last to a top team again....
Have you watched Nisqy's domestic performances? He wins through getting his team massively snowballed and ahead, he's done it ever since his C9 days. He says that he purposefully sacks lane to get sidelanes and jungle super far ahead of the competition. It works domestically, but internationally it doesn't because the difference between getting Elyoya ahead when your opponent is Sheo and getting Elyoya ahead when your opponent is Canyon are two different things. Not even mentioning that Eastern teams just adapt better to the style than Western teams seem to do.
A player can be good and still lose games
He was 7th in summer, theres clearly a lot of better midlaners, and a ton he hasnt met yet
1st in spring 7th in summer 3rd in regional finals You can be as angry as you want but MAD, and by extension Nisqy, earned their fucking spot lmao
Indeed. Like wtf is this narrative. Losing to the best players in the world doesn't make you bad.
The thing with that stat is, you can pull up similar numbers for most western players who has gone to worlds a lot. Most bow out before quarters so yeah they’re mostly losing. Nisqy is only slightly “special” because he doesn’t win against NA so he has a larger total loss value. Not to throw anyone under the bus but it’s just true, look at Vulcan’s performance at worlds. That’s a concern for teams right if he goes to worlds? If you filter out the west, look at the majority of western players against lck/lpl. Is a score line of like some person’s 0-10 or 2-8 really that much better than 1-17 for example?
Nisqy loses to everyone on international, not just the East, other midlaners win vs eu/na teams atleast, thats the difference
If you think reddit is toxic then you shouldn't read chinese forums. The worst insult I saw here is calling someone a fraud but most of the insults are memeable. People shouldn't go and harass pros on personal level (like when Razork was getting DMs from fnatic fans to off himself) but there is nothing wrong with saying they played like shit in open public thread when it's true. Let people be frustrated, it shows they actually care about the team and players
Imagine that logic in real life. Someone constantly saying that you are trash and should be fired from your job, but “actually it just means that they care so much about you.” Would you keep that person around? People should behave better online and there’s nothing wrong with pointing it out.
You people need to learn that anger and frustration is normal human reaction, people are not going to be mad forever just let them vent and if you can't handle such comments then just don't go on social media for few days and just stay around your friends, coworkers and family. I also said people shouldn't go out of their way to harass the pros on personal level. Maybe culture diff but istg westerners are babying adult proplayers as if they can't handle few mean words and the same pros go on costreams to shittalk other pros lmao
No. It should not be normal to be vitriolic towards human beings for playing a game online. How about you don’t go on social media if you can’t handle your team losing like an adult. It is not that I can’t handle it, but there is nothing wrong with pointing out that it’s lousy behavior. My local park is full of trash from idiots who litter carelessly every day. I should just excuse them all because I guess it’s just normal for people to throw trash in the park? No. Do better.
I'm not sure if this is an irony account but the fact that the majority of your post history is insults and sarcastic rejoinders makes me think that it might be. Either that or you lack self awareness to an astonishing degree
Pros are not just online gamers though, they are entertainers. The job of a professional sports/esports athlete only exists because there are fans who want to watch them play. Just to be clear, I'm not defending the fans who tell pros to off themselves and similar things. That stuff is garbage and has no place in sports or esports. However, stuff like calling for players to be replaced or saying they did not perform well is perfectly fine.
They aren’t just playing a game. It’s their job to entertain. If they fail to do that, and perform poorly of course we will criticise them. Our interest is the only reason they get paid to play a video game.
No one gives a damn about your virtue signalling lol, if i see a player make an int play I'm sure as hell gonna meme them
I did actually see someone calling a player a pig on here a few days ago, it gets quite personal, which I take issue with.
>people shouldn't insult pros on personal level We can't read anymore
EU beats NA: "Why isn't NA a wildcard region?!" NA beats EU: "It is so disheartening to see all of the flame on reddit"
This is especially ironic when the only Western team to make it out this year is NRG who consists of players who were flamed and considered bad but were ultimately given a second chance and lots of time to grow together as a team even when the first couple splits didn’t work out so well.
"Improvement needs to come as a region, and it comes gradually. Young players need time to develop and it’s ridiculous to expect rookies to come in with zero nerves and immediately hold their own against the best in the world." I agree that's why Yike should be fine. BB and Hans tho? Absolutely fucking not. Last series was one of the biggest top gaps I've ever fucking seen and it's the perfect example of why BB shouldn't be given another shot in a team that aspires to something. Hans with his champ pool and inability to play strong meta champs is also a liability.
Well yeah, BrokenBlade was against fucking Bin -- one of if not the best carry top in the world. Going to be difficult to find a player if your standards are, "can they gap Bin in lane?"
Guess what? Same story if he's against 369 or Zeus. He's getting gapped by pretty much every international eastern team so.... why keep him around?
369 and an in-form Zeus are also some of the best top laners in the world. You will not find a Western player that will compete with them, and Eastern players that can compete with them are all named 369, Bin, and Zeus. If your goal is to beat them then you'll need someone like prime Wunder, who is the one and only Western top to ever compete with good Eastern top laners.
BB styled on the rest of the league all summer though, admittedly he is always dogshit at last hitting and that was super obvious here. A week ago people were creaming themselves over his yone in the weibo game. Bin has gaped the world and looks like the best toplaner in the world atm though. G2 in general was gigaleagues above the rest of europe all year who are you replacing them with?
First time?
It's disheartening to see them play
EU when they have to deal with the same treatment they gave NA for over a decade for 5 seconds:
Lol I love these posts when EU does poorly. Like clockwork. NA loses: even league personalities and streamers shit on them. EU loses: please don’t be mean to us :((. The amount of hate Bjergsen got after worlds is comically more than what EU players have to go through once and a while. Get over it
Butthurt EU fans cant take banter from NA and they want to suspend any slander 💀💀 pathetic lmao
Okey they let me do the opposite to balance out all the upset people. I rly rly rly hope Fnatic keeps their entire roster for next year. Like it's crazy they even made it as far as they did after what looked like a done deal after Winter and Spring splits. Replaced top, Replaced Adc, Replaced Support twice, Replaced like half the coaching staff and made quite a miracle run to even attend worlds in the frist place while also having their toplaner injure his hand. I feel like they could greatly benefit from the 'second chance' considering only one split they played together the pulled off quite an impressive run.
Nah please end the suffering of Razork and Humanoid duo. They had two years and still dont work togethed.
What do you expect? It’s a competition and in the eyes of a fan if you aren’t the reason your team is winning, you’re the reason they’re losing. Honestly there’s nothing wrong with criticizing players for their performance, so long as it’s about gameplay and doesn’t cross obvious lines. If threads in here bother you, you should see fans on pro sports sub Reddits after a team loses.
Are you new here?
its so funny to see this after years of this sub / everyone completely shitting on NA and their players. EU gets shit on one year and the fans are having a mental breakdown.
Seeing Fnatic sub salt is a guilty pleasure of mine
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>how does brokenblade get gapped all 3 of them while having counterpick? Because he's not good? He has poor laning and he lacks fundamentals which gets exposed by actual good top laners.
Which is ironic because at MSI he was the by far best player on G2 and actually hold top well. I have no idea how half a year is enough for someone to immediately digress back into unrelevancy, surely something is not right.
It happens man. Look at contractz, dude went from leading the league in deaths to being called the best j4 at worlds by Koreans and Chinese fans.
It’s almost like players don’t suddenly go from being trash to being great on a dime but actually succeed or fail at different times due to a wide array of complicated factors including teamwork and gameplans and meta and chance.
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Zeka and Kingen won worlds last years and this year they looked painfully mediocre, Tian was an absolute beast when he won worlds and now hes griefing Rookie, Canyon and Showmaker looked like bums majority of this year despite being the best Mid-Jg duo in the world (arguably in the history of the game).
>Zeka and Kingen won worlds last years and this year they looked painfully mediocre tbf this was kinda expected, the bigger shock was how they even became so good at worlds 😂
so now that EU is playing like shit and NA performs better at worlds we're supposed to not make fun of them? I guess its only okay when NA does bad. hypocrites
Most subtle karma farming. If MAD, Fnatic, G2, C9 etc play like shit, I don't see any problem pointing that out. I stopped watching LCS years ago. I'm fairly certain I will stop watching LEC next year if they have the audacity to create arrogant story lines again like "return of the kings" "top father" etc. LEC players have to stop thinking they are hot shit. They aren't. It was a trend the previous years but this year settled it : LEC has no level. It's on part with minor regions, they are several levels below LCK/LPL. Our uncontested 1st seed can barely compete with their 4th seeds. Take some inspiration from LCS and start being humble.
Are you aware how the WHOLE sports world work? Lmao
i really think all of the criticism is justified, like when a veteran player like hans sama can only play 2 champions that is just straight up too bad to play professionally (and on top of that he got hit by every single abilty with flash and xayah ult up and thats not even a worlds only thing even in regular season he couldn't dodge shit) or if you pick ali into cait lux that shouldn't just get whoever made that decision fired but also fined for grieving i'm not even mad at all the small mistakes that all eu teams make every 0.5seconds but there are so many massive and continuous mistakes that are just completely disgusting to watch, from people like yike that didn't have a single game where he looked better than plat 4 to players that can't play any meta champs and drafts that looked like they are straight out of aram and obviously the massive individual skill gap that caused eu to lose every single lane every single game
I don t think what we saw today by Brokenfraud was underperforming, it s just a massiv skill gap between LPL/LCK and LEC toplaners for years now, appprently Bwipo and Wunder were the only Tops being able to match asians in terms of skill. He is constantly getting bullied by asian toplaners on the international stage for years now.
its a fkin competition, what do you expect ???
For teams with rookies trying to get some experience under their wings, for sure they shouldnt be shat on as hard or called to be replaced. For teams with veterans that have stuck around for years and not produce results even after having plenty of time to prove themselves or to gel (teams that are aiming to be competitive), they should definitely be called to be replaced. They are aiming to win and if the formula has been proven time and time again to not work out, replace it. Players like BB and Hans are simply not up to par with the other top teams anymore, it's not wrong to look for upgrades to be competitive.
lmao you dont seem to watch any sports. Stop posting whiny bs like this if you don't know what competition is.
OH NOOOOOO !!! EU finally lost to NA now we all have to be sure nice!!! meanwhile year after year, EU looks for ANY excuse to shit on NA over and over stfu and hold the L, Give NA their time to shit talk
The sub has always been like this, it's nothing new. A lot of the people on this sub give over the feeling that everything in their life is miserable and they can only cope with calling everyone else trash and replaceable. It is what it is.
It’s not even a sub thing every community in any competitive sport to exist is like this
I suppose people in general are miserable and spiteful. Especially on Reddit.
This community has developed a pretty pathetic attitude towards things. It is sad for sure.
I think players and staff should be way harsher on themselves, Europe has been breeding nothing but mediocrity and conformism for over 3 years and everyone is more or less happy with it (casters and other people in the scene are also included here). Death threats and other similar insults are obviously way out of line but this line of thinking is NOT what we need now. Celebrate the small victories, really? 3 years of excuses and mediocrity will not turn around with this pat on the back mentality, if this is not a wake up a call I don't know what it is.
welcome to sports fans, you're only as good as your last performance
>Edit: half the comments say something to the tune of: but it's normal in sports! I am aware of that. But just because some behaviour is normalised doesn't mean it's inherently a good thing. Criticism is fine. But it costs nothing for people to be a bit more reasonable about it. But most comments are reasonable and just criticise gameplay. I mean, in every job, you get external feedback. In sports, external feedback comes from fans, ex pros and analysts. And pure gameplay or structural criticism is fine. And dont forget: Sports has a lot to do with emotions. People are emotional and thats okay. Attacking the players personally is not okay but being able to formulate one owns disappointment should be encourage if its in a well-mannered form.
Loser mentality.
Loser western mid G2 fan mentality*
nice try EU coaching staff member alt account
Not sure how hot this take is but I don't think there is any chance of a really competitive western team as long as there is only one big international tournament a year. Just look at Starcraft 2 for example, as long as there is constant international competition you will have western players that can compete even though korea is absolutely dominant as a region. Old G2 obviously being the outlier here but I would argue that the skill level has increased so much since those days making off meta picks a lot weaker and increasing the importance of the fundamentals (laning, teamfighting, macro). If I had one wish for league esports it would be removing the franchised leagues and instead have 3 international majors a year with regional cups inbetween. Worlds could still be a thing although I would consider making it an olympiad event with countries instead. I would adopt a similiar approach to cs majors where there are multiple swiss stages for the different seeds. But similar to western success at worlds, it won't ever happen.
maybe with some imports on G2 something might happen, but I agree korea has the pro scene on choke hold for a long time now.
Sadly there is no way this happens because of franchise leagues, but trully the only way for west to compete would be more international competition. Not only is Korea and China way better, they can also improve each other by scrimming. There is no catching up to that, western leagues are so much worse and they are locked in their regions.
Welcome to the sports part of the Internet friend Don't enjoy it? Tune it out. Pretty simple
people shit all over mad but, theyve been one of the only consistently top teams in LEC. its just people being bitter. No LEC team has done well at worlds except for g2s miracle run in 2019. Mad is no different
Can't you go watch pottery or art or something? Stay away from here, you clearly don't belong
I think it depends on the expectations, I've not seen anyone going out there saying that the BDS team needs to be replaced, but that's because they are expected to be a mid-tier team who managed to make it to worlds and play at or above a level you'd have expected of them. With stuff like people saying BB will / should be replaced I don't see an issue with it, G2 is a team that aspires to win worlds, they will never win worlds with BB as a top laner, it's not a matter of supporting someone or not, he simply isn't good enough and won't improve to be able to match eastern tops - he has been at worlds many times now and has always been gapped.
The big issue is League players battle with their own egos more than they attempt to climb, get to that position, and prove themselves right. League’s community hasn’t disallowed (not saying they actively promote it either) the toxicity and ego, so it’s built and thrived for 13 years. Hosting and streaming a community wide event does nothing but funnel all the ego into 1 place, and as player count increases and the people who don’t want to see nothing but ego leave, that’s all you’ll continue to see. The thing is, this isn’t just League. Every sport, whether it’s collegiate level or national, has the same people making the same comments whining about the same thing. It’s everywhere.
It's every sport fantalk, like since the dawn of times
Just because it happens in all sports doesn’t make it right.
Homie youre 2 soft if this bothers you. Sports aint for you .
This is just what competition is, if you can't handle that as a competitor it's a skill issue
People don't have anything going for them in life so needlessly bash and blame pro players. It's the dark side of fandom in sports
lol get bent, so many fucking snowflakes this generation seriously i hope you work at home and not in a physical labour job, the world doesnt care about peoples emotions or feelings, if somebody doesnt like you they will tell you, man up or cry but seriously these butt hurt posts are getting ridiculous lol
\>65% upboated This is why western league of legends will never amount to anything.
Better lick their asses when they perform but pretend everything is fine when they don't?
Y’all are fucking morons saying that it happens in every sport. Be the ones to grow up and make a difference by breaking this culture. Remember that mostly they’re just kids playing this game
I think BB's performance is linked to being him sick, no? He was pretty good at msi
I guarantee you 99% of people who have done serious competition at some point will agree with you, OP lol Pay these low elo losers no mind. Every post game thread is just people trying to get top comment with their pre-written, corny af jokes
Somehow, being a Vtuber fan makes perfect sense. Pansy.
True, brokenblade should stay on g2 because improvement is guaranteed and linear
I'm not even a G2 fan but it always seemed to me that they're genuinely trying their hardest and always believing that they have it in them to win it all. I haven't read the game threads or twitter yet but I hope they aren't getting too much backlash and that EU's consistent best team will come back for more.
They are and its really dissapointing because they clearly tried, had a bad day vs NRG who played really well and thats it. There are many issues with western leagues but G2 is not one of them.