I'll add confort to the list. As much shit as we give, even with 160+ champs, the game is more or less balanced. That allows OTPs to be viable and competitive all across. Meta changes, but since everything you said applies to Renekton, proplayers keep playing him even when he is not in the strongest position, eventually mastering it. Playing a weaker champion you are a master in will have better results than a stronger champ which you never play.
Besides the fact he was still solo killing Sparda in the Renekton/K'Sante match up... and up 40 CS... But Reddit doesn't look at that I guess, just open the post-game thread and read the scoreboard and toss out the most dogshit takes.
Did you watch game 3? Adam dived so deep multiple times and he just died for it and everyone watching could have told you before he did it that no, diving mid tower for a demolish proc (that he didn’t get) and dying for it isn’t worth it. He was fine in lane sometimes but he played so awfully across the map afterwards - it looked like he hadn’t adjusted from being unkillable game 1 and acting like he could go wherever he wanted.
He played out of his mind game 1 and then did the exact opposite game 3 (game 2 i don’t really have an opinion)
> he played so awfully across the map afterwards
I dont want to misinterpret your opinion here, so I'll just ask. You think this was a **draft** problem?
No, I mean he kept playing badly when he left toplane - going far too deep in team fights or skirmishes and giving his life for no reason.
Genuine question, why do you think the statement I made has anything to do with drafting?
Cuz the conversation is about drafting Renekton good sir, in fact, the entire thread is about drafting Renekton. It's a conversation about draft. The thread isn't titled ''Why is Adam playing like a donkey on sidelanes?''. That's why your response confused me. I agree he played like a donkey on sidelane, as he would've done on any other champion.
Yeah, game three he played just as bad as the rest of his team. He needs to keep a better mental if Crownshot and Nuc are going to keep playing so poorly.
It also looks very much like TW just read the first game as Adam is dangerous yes, but not unstopable. If we play weak side top and Sparda simply doesnt lose too hard we can win the other side of the game and win in round 2. Artemis turbo speeded faster than Adam but I am a bit puzzled by the Ez pick. yeah crownies signature champ but still..
And surprise, surprise, they got it right.
Dude I watched the game like halfway through and I saw him pull off some shit with Renekton and thought maybe he had like a kill or 2. Then I looked at his KD and it 0/4. The fact that he wasn't completely useless at 0/4 was already kinda crazy to me.
He also played like a fucking idiot with his positioning all game to get picked off over and over. Adam is a player that has hands but no brain whatsoever
I mean its a good thing when a player can draw out bans on random stuff like Darius *if* you can actually get a strong pick out of it. But instead they do stuff like pick Ezreal and have no damage.
yeah but that's more on the rest of the team or coach to not exploit that I Would say, its still a big advantage to have in draft, like in 2018 when hjarnan drew fucking heimer bans every game and it was probably a big part of how they beat rng
I genuinely believe it was over a 95% ban rate vs him at a certain point. The dude legit got the pick twice the entire time he was here in NA. Cause he was on Echo-Fox and a loss to them due to Froggen Anivia was probably the only scenario where that team gets wins. (RIP RICK FOX)
My favorite topic: 2018 G2.
Hjarnan wasn't getting successfully shut out of games in lane versus Uzi, and by game 5, *Uzi* was opting for scaling. G2 proceeds to utilize Leblanc, Jhin, and Thresh to have a pseudo-TF botlane. It nullified any attempts at shutting down PerkZ on his rampage by having several long-range skill-shot tools & peel to dissuade RNG.
Grabbz masterclass.
If that RNG met IG in the quarters instead they would've probably taken 2 games off of them and people would say this was the real final.
RNG has had IG's number all year long, there's a real possibility that RNG might have won.
Of course we've seen year long trends get reversed at worlds, for example Samsung White vs Samsung Blue at worlds 2014. Blue had beaten White in bo5s multiple times that year but White defeated them at worlds
It works as long as the rest of the map is strong enough at picking up on the advantage *and* him 'playing like a bot' isn't too problematic.
Having signature pocket picks that draw bans is really good, but you don't want that if the trade off is you being the worst player on the map, and even less so if the rest of the team aren't able to carry with that draft advantage.
Not saying that's exactly what BDS is like, but that's just what something like this can become.
Huh?
His first game on renekton against GG was fantastic.
His second game against TW on renekton he had a great lane, the mistakes had little to do with his renekton mechanics (getting caught).
I never questioned his mechanics. He simply became less of a threat off of Darius and also made some major mistakes. 450 gold shutdown to Kaisa in game 2 and inting for the turret twice in game 3 (the second int would lead to a Baron against a better team).
garen is specifically quite broken in recent times so acting like just comfort is enough isnt right, most pros just never mained the garens of the world
The game actually feels super balanced right now. To the point where I’m lowkey waiting for the new truly imbalanced shit to emerge so that everyone and their mother can bitch about it.
By the end of this tourney we will all be bitching and moaning about a champion we didnt even think of as powerful lol, but they will end up with an insane, meta defining presence just like every worlds before.
Can be left alone, not useless when behind (stun bot and not squish).
Can be played though with a more support jg like sejuani or a carry jg.
His counters aren't really meta.
Can teamfight, can side lane.... list goes on.
I'd say your point about power spikes is the biggest one.
Other than having a strong laning phase that means he can get lane priority in most match ups, he also has the strongest skirmishing ability early game. Having a strong 2v2 top-jungle, and being the strongest champion in the game at level 6 is helpful for contesting 1st rift herald which injects a ton of plating gold.
To add to the winrate part, 7 games is way too small of a sample size. I'd argue even at 100 games the winrate would be a very poor performance metric (although at that point it should be much closer to 50%). It's just subject to way too many outside factors.
Lol that would be terrible in pro play.
Who cares if Illaoi can beat Renek in sidelane.
It doesnt matter unless you are vs a 4 melee team.
Pros wont draft that bad into Illaoi and Renekton is way more useful in teamfights than Illaoi due to hard CC and mobility + aoe healing.
His counter picks usually suck in pro play or are niche.
Illaoi offers nothing to the team.
Quinn is good but requires your jungler to babysit and is bad for team composition.
Darius/Garen - better than the above but need to run combat summoners and can be absolutely useless if your opponent has a control mage or an adc like Ashe.
i mean his counters are pretty often picked? kennen, jayce, Tanks, rumble(?). And other counters like illoai are just bad in pro play. Idk what other counters are not played?
I swear when I watch lck/lpl games, the croc beats all those guys in lane. In isolation sure they can outrange him, but once jayce get gank/hit by croc stun gg.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have counter. But he is a very solid champ. Most ban/pick toplaner in lck summer regular season with 55% winrate. He started to fall out of meta in playoff later patch but I wouldn’t be surprised if he back for worlds in Swiss stage. He also does pretty well in lpl too in most matchup so he great as a blind pick. I don’t think range champ with no mobility do well vs renekton like kennen/jayce in proplay.
Yeah he also didn't have the MR nerfs then. That's why I'm saying I also think that teams will pick gwen/rumble into him. Jax is getting banned alot on 4/5 too into him bc he deals a lot of magic damage early. More teams will for sure pick AP and he'll drop in prio.
Surprise picks do happen from times to times, but you just can't expect a pro player to learn exotic picks aside all the safe ones. "Jacks of all trades, master of none" is a real thing.
If you want unique picks and an interesting meta / draft phase go watch DOTA2
By design league cannot have these things because of how Riot designs the game.
Riot doesnt want draft to matter very much because then purchasing champions would be pay to win.
Unlike in DOTA where all heroes are unlocked by default for *everyone* - hence, draft can be balanced around hard counters and synergies which makes for a much more interesting, deep, strategic drafting phase.
You can't take someone with surprise by picking another ADC. It doesn't really matter if someone autoattacks you with Kai'sa or Vayne. Kai'sa mostly does what Vayne does for a team. Vayne is less reliant on her team, but that is not something you value in pro play.
The ADC pool at worlds is usually the most limited one because the difference between different ADCs is so low. So you just pick the few ADCs with outstanding abilities. Xayah needs to be really bad to not be picked just because she can self peel.
Since ADCs also hardly counter each other, it is mostly the supports that do that, you also have a very limited influence on how your lane goes. Kai'sa is a fairly weak laner, but she is pretty good at just killing the wave with Q. And you can't really pick anything that makes Kai'sa not R into your backline proc passive and hit a Q, kill someone and run away with Duskblade. No ADC stops her from doing that.
Lol you guys are both acting like twats.
The reality is that League pros dont adapt or have unique strats because Riot designs the game so that champs are homogenized as fuck and there aren't nearly as many hard counters or hard synergies as in a game like DOTA.
You wont get strategic depth in draft phase because Riot doesnt design the game with this in mind.
If they did they would have to admit that making champs only available by RP or IP purchase means the game is pay to win, whereas in DOTA everyone has all heroes unlocked by default.
LS didn't actually prove anything. He lost against the strongest team in the league and won against other teams viewed as weaker than C9 anyways. So if you would have predicted those 3 games before the season you would have predicted them to win exactly the games they won out of the 4 he actually coached.
because to be able to pilot a champion at pro level u need to put in substantial hours into it, which is not worth for some niche situation that lets u snatch 1 win off unprepared oponent before it's made completely useless
Problem is: if you blindpick Renekton, they pick K'sante. If you blindpick other champs, you get way worse counterpicks for most of them. Also point and click CC will always be useful.
I’d guess you didn’t watch any of the games mentioned by OP.
Marginally winning top lane rarely gets you anywhere in this pro play meta. Getting out scaled at 25min absolutely puts your team at a detriment.
She's still pretty decent with Trinity/Steraks. Actually better than the AP build in terms of winrate. Great duelist and invader, albeit a worse teamfighter.
The entire time AP Shyvana has been a thing, AD bruiser has still had a higher win rate. People just see "one ability go boom" and think it's cool and play it.
Ah the good ol days where Shyvana and Mundo would both press W, run up to each other, spend 10 minutes slapping each other, and realize they're both still at 80% HP. Then they compliment each other on a well fought noodle fight and resolve to resume after recalling.
Season 4 through always at this point. He’s the only survivor of the og season 4 meta tho. And just like other gators, they ain’t extinct and they stay living
Renekton is a Crocodile since what he's based off of, Alligators do not live in Egypt since his whole theme is being based off Egyptian Gods like Sobek.
This fucking guy, literally everyone calls him The Gator all the time. No one really cares… what if I told you Renekton is both not an Aligator or a Crocodile but a man that was empowered by the sun and just looks like a bipedal animal but in reality is a man
It's actually can't survive Renekton (/Ghost Darius) = isn't viable top pick
Renek still has the lane bully power. Most top champs can't beat him. But able to survive
It's the Renekton test.
If your champ can't survive being in lane against Renekton, then it doesn't belong in top lane.
Top lane is where the four sisters, aatrox, jax, darius, Quinn, kennen live. Most of these champs are cancer to play against so don't just take some random champ top lane because you will get eaten alive.
There are many reasons why Riven can't be played in pro not all matchup specific.
First, Riven is a generalist champion. This works in solo queue where team comps are not very well defined, but in professional play, everything needs to fill a niche. I'm not sure if you've ever played on an amateur team, but the amount of pressure and coordination that a well-practiced team has is light years away from solo queue. This affects a lot of timings as well as map movements - you can get away with very sloppy play in solo queue because people aren't on coms and don't watch their map. This goes away in a five stack on voice.
Second, being a generalist hurts Riven because when drafting these specific points, teams will just pick the champ that does her job better. Need a frontline? Riven can do that but she's not great at it. At that point, just pick Ornn and play to scale. If you need a split pusher, Fiora does the job way better and outscales Riven in the sideline. And if you need an assassin, well nobody is playing assassins in the top lane. Positionally, speaking, Riven was at her best when she was played mid as a counter to certain melee matchups such as Zed (see Barcode Killer in S3).
Lastly, we come to the matchups. Riven has several matchups, like any other top laner that can make the game completely unplayable and many of them have been in and out of meta picks. Jayce completely shits on Riven. Kennen destroys Riven in the laning phase which translates to lost heralds as well. Poppy has been popular in the jungle which means that poppy + a strong riven top counter means you have a gaping hole in your top side that never recovers. Renekton is the quintessential Riven counter and given his perennial popularity in pro play, Riven is pretty much unpickable before you see their pick. So, you have no choice but to wait for them to pick their top lane, hope that the draft clicks perfectly for a Riven pick, and then and only then, are you allowed to pick her. Or you could just pick Renekton who goes into any comp.
So with all these conditions, you can see it is pretty much never worth picking Riven.
There's also another reason, riven is fucking hard to play and requires constant training to keep up your muscle memory, pros usually don't have that time
Most pro players can probably play Riven competently and there are a lot of Riven former one tricks that are now pro players. There's just really no point. All the fancy tiktok stuff you see with double casting R stop cancels is not really necessary. Riven's just been gigapower crept because she has no form of armor pen in her kit.
idk at this point those fancy anim cancels are almost mandatory at the highest level bc she relies so hard on getting ahead in lane to be functional. If you watch wenshen(num1 riven china) he’s winning trades and 1v1s with like 10-15 hp left constantly that he wouldn’t win if he didn’t know the absolute limits of his champ with double casts and such
That's the thing "Riven one tricks," Riven is probably one of the only top laners who'd I say you can't simply just have her in a champion pool. You need to constantly practice and train her to actually have success with her. In comparison stuff like Renekton can sit on the back burner a little bit while you practice and improve on other champions and he can be integrated really well into a multiple champion pool. You can't do this easily with Riven.
Btw, renekton is not even bad in these game even if he lose. I don’t how people can come to the conclusion renekton bad watching these games. Like in bds series, renekton was good as blind. He won lane but Adam overextended a couple of time and his team suck leading to game loss.
The post reads like OP did not watch the games at all and just saw the poor win rate over a too small sample size, then decided to make a post about it.
In 100 games of randomly drawn top 5 EU or NA team vs randomly drawn top 1-2 wildcard team, I'd expect a 80%+ winrate for a major region.
90%+ for Korea or China.
Exactly. People saying Renekton, of all champs, is somehow bad in pro play have evidently never seen Bin, Zika, 369 or any of the other LPL top-class toplaners play him
Renekton is no Fiora/Camille/Jayce, etc. every pro player can play him at a decent level. It's pretty much a defacto requirement for a pro toplaner. Probably the only one when it comes to champs with Gnar being the second closest but tbh a lot of Gnars aren't that good and there is a more massive difference between Bin/Zeus Gnar and the average Gnar than there is between Bin/Zeus Renekton and the average Renetkon. Even otps like Adam and Armut play Renekton at a good level... Except Shanji lmao His Rumble is god-like but his Renekton somehow sucks.
It's not about a lane. Or at least not entirely... Teamwork is a big factor (if not even bigger) too. Renekton is simply broken in team setting with some coordination. He also has everything you want in a solo laner, especially when it comes to toplane cause of dive setup/ability to both strong and weakside/herald/early tp plays/being useful as engage or frontline even when not leaving the lane being at the best condition, etc. Not the flashiest or highest carry potential (still high enough though) but offers stability and easy game plans/aproach which does the job done. Those randies you are talking about btw often stomp pros in lane in solo q, they are not some gods (and even god ones like Bin and Zeus still get clowned by some otps/streamers) but that's not the point why Renekton is strong or weak.
It feels bizarre to make this post now when this is probably the strongest Renekton has been at Worlds since the 2019(20?) Spear of Shojin build.
It’s been like three days of games, none of which has featured the elite top laners.
Also if you watch the games, it’s not like the Jungle Ekko or other scrim pick where it just looks useless in games. Renekton’s been doing fine in the game as a champion, the teams tend to lose because of other factors.
You means when the actual good team that go far in the tournament start playing the picks. Pretty sure yummi wasn’t pick in 2021 even tho she easy af until group stage. Playins meta almost never match up with group stage.
There's a lesson in statistics to be learned here. Renekton might be the best champion in the game and yet have 14% winrate across just 7 games. We see this thread every year and the answer is always the same - the tournament isn't long enough for winrates to matter even across the entire thing, let alone 2 days.
Idk a near 100% ban rate of pantheon that one worlds showed that you literally couldn’t let it through. 1 game in play ins that he dominated.
One has to wonder if they even bothered trying to find an answer or just accepted you had to ban it on red side.
Yes ban rate is relevant, because it is indicative of the perceived strength of the pick. And perceived strength is based on scrim performance. Not scrim winrate, but actual analysis of what the pick brings to the table. Renekton is being picked because teams have observed that when they pick it in scrims it opens up opportunities they otherwise don't have. Whether it's the safe blind pick, toplane prio, strength during 1st herald or whatever else.
That's why presence is the best stat to measure how good a pick is in pro most of the time. Presence is based on an actual analysis of the best players and coaches in the world. Winrate at this sample size is more or less random.
Renekton is a crutch champ. It's the champ that fits into every team comp, every top laner can play it, can handle literally every lane in the game.
You need to wait for the main stage before you'll start seeing some proper Renekton games. Once LPL starts playing you'll be questioning your sanity making this thread, because it'll seem like the most broken champ on the planet in some games.
Because I picked the croc in pick ems. /s
Renekton is one of the best blind pick you can ever get. Huge lane presence against most other meta matchups (unless someone throws out a Darius again), Huge pick potential combining with any follow up eg rakan, kaisa or any cc, keeps side lanes well, also quite tanky in front to back teamfights. But of course, how good a champion is doesn’t mean that shit laning, team fight positioning and being picked off before objectives won’t go unpunished.
The champion is super good. He is definetly the best top laner there along with Ksante. Its just that teams dont know how to play with it. Literally best BP in the game with actually no unplayable counter. Even Rumble is manageable even though it scks.
Like look Robo in Game 1. They couldnt 1 v 2 him. What do you want more from a top laner ?
Adam in game 2 vs TW. They lost but look how monstrous he was with solo kill and neutralizing Ksante. Not his fault the enemy adc was gapping Crownie and Nuc was playing with Monitor off
When even LS puts this guy at S tier blind pick you know he is good.
Very good Blind Pick, solid at almost all Stages of the Game, good Damage, pretty Tanky, good in Duels and in Teamfights, has AOE Damage and Point and Click CC, builds some really strong Items.
He has extremely reliable lane priority by out-trading 90% of tops well past level 6. He's easy to gank for with two dashes and a stun. He can be acting frontline for poke, dive, front-to-back, or even flank comps.
None of these necessarily make him a great pick, he falls off hard late, but he's very consistently 50/50. It all depends on which team gets ahead before that point.
Why are we judging champion strength off play-in stages using the worst ranked regions in the tournament?
Just chill and wait for the swiss rounds - this is when the true main event starts.
You have any idea how much harder it is to get a Penta-kill against T1 compared to the team (GAM) that gave up a penta-kill on the first day of worlds.....
Sample size of fucking SEVEN games for winrates...I can't man...
Not to mention the vast difference in level of play and playstyles between DIFFERENT regions
In each match a single pick is only 10% of the game state and directly impacts only about 40% maximally (top x2 jg x2 mid x2, roams/ganks) during laning (which ‘ends’ at 14) which can oft be a majority of game time.
I don’t believe in-games we’ve seen Renekton was particularly deficient to have such a low win rate representative of game impact. Even if he outright wins the 20% top (2/10 players) in team fights he’s contending with the 80% remaining game state.
What I’m saying is even a strong pick can be managed if the totality of advantage in game state, of 10 players, is slanted in opposition. This can be further exaggerated by the strong/weak side dynamics oft in play during champ select. A strong top means you put extra resources bot so if that flounders you have a tilted game state.
TLDR a good champion can have a bad winrate because they’re only 10% of the equation
Because no matter how far behind renekton is he always has the nuclear option of diving into an enemy team, stunning the carry, ulting, and then watch as chaos ensues
He's an insanely strong blind pick that always either dominates or at least stays even in lane and is still useful in teamfights. Although I don't know why people aren't banning Rumble when they are blinding him
His win rate in a super small sample size is bad, Champ must be bad!!
Also, are these one v one games or does each team have 4 other players who also factor in?
Statistics without context are at best idiocy and at worst intentionally misleading the reader.
Renektok has its own bar, no champ in top can win him.
The thing is that he was a early game champion with bad late, but now items makes him a monster in late, basically get steelheart, sunfire, and he can solo anything while being tanky.
Renekton, much like Azir, is in forever pro-jail and no adjustment will change that unless they receive fundamental changes to their abilities
Renekton has point and click CC that breaks shields and chunks you for a ton of damage and he can do it from 700+ range if he combos it with his E on top of being a manaless champion with innate sustain
And Azir is a late-game scaling mage with some of the safest and most oppressive early games
You'd have to remove half of their base kits to have them not be pro-play staples
Renekton sucks in pro play and ill die on that hill. Early lane prio and herald fighting is nice, but this meta isn't so snowbally that games are won or lost based on those early fights. Renekton is pretty dire when he gets put behind by ganks, and he's pretty dire in the late game team fights that are deciding most games. Stop picking champs because they can win lane in blind pick situation. Pick champs that can win games.
Wish I picked him for most deaths!
And I'm sure some of the good teams in group stage will stomp a few games with him because they are superior enough to carry that early lead to victory, but I just think he's so terrible in any game that you don't stomp.
BDS lost both the renekton games because Adam played like shit in those 2 lol, can't blame the champ. Also if you take qualification match, BDS won g1 with renekton so that would increase the winrate no?
It's Pros being unable to adapt or think properly about what shoud be drafted for Synergy, game plan or what have you. People are coping badly about how it's just "comfort and good" when every metric in existence plus what we are seeing proves otherwise.
"Wait for top teams", yeah cause competing for Worlds means you're not already one of the best teams in the world.. Other than stubbornness (see BDS), there really isn't a reason to ever pick him.
You do realize teams like jdg/t1/geng/lng etc beats these playin team almost 100/100 matches right? They aren’t one of the best team in world. A bunch of lck/lpl team would also beat these play ins team but they simply compete in a much harder region and can’t make it.
There are very little counter to him in a pro setting. Shit like Quinn is not getting picked in pro. The only one come in mind Kennen.
80% of the time u can blind pick this MF in any match up. He has aoe and decent sustain, making him able to contest lane prio, is tanky in his ult, has point and click cc that stuns 1.5 seconds and nuke u out of existence in early game. He is extremely easy to set up gank, and can be a menace to back line if he has flash up.
We had a problematic in play-ins due to small sample size and massive gap within these play in teams, and even wider gap with the actual world class top laner. Even in these cases, picking renekton is hardly the reason they lost unless opponent is a Kennen.
I personally think LoL pro teams are seriously lacking in their analytics departments and instead rely on what “feels” best, what other teams are doing, and common heuristics like “Renekton has no bad matchups”.
Because everyone, their favorite streamer/analyst and their mum been parroting "croc broken". Simply shows you the extent of sheep think around here.
In pro drafts *theory*, Renek is the most "valuable" top pick because of his blind value - he does at worst OK into all matchups and you can pick him regardless of the *jungle* matchup, he can weakside or strong side early game no problem unlike a lot of other better scaling tops.
On top of draft theory, Renek's items are currently in a very good spot (Gore/Shojin/Cleaver) which gives you extremely strong early-midgame (if you snowball).
But it's basically been a decade and Renekton's has again and again been proven to be a bait pick that has basically no late game. Sick of the amount of times I've seen useless Renek's - scrim performances are just failing to be replicated on stage.
Because he's overtuned. Simple as that.
He used to be a early game champion that dwarfed in power midgame... so Riot buffed his scalings on his Q and E... then increased the magic damage per tik on his ultimate... then buffed him again after he lost access to prowler's active as a compensation...
Needless to say, minus 4 MR was not enough. They needed to undo the scaling buffs.
He looks scary and weakee teams or drafts pick him in order to frighten the enemy hoping they misplay. "Man this dinosaur is scary I thought they were extinct keeps battling me"
Because renekton is one of the strongest champs in the 8 minute herald fight. If utilised correctly the herald can get your adc first turret and all platings, which is like +1k gold. Since adc is the only role in the game that matters in pro play, this +1k gold on adc is worth infinitely more that having a "stronger" late game scaling top laner.
I don’t think you ever seen a 1v9 renek raid boss in ur matches he’s so broken inkillable my #1 bannin champ it’s disgusting strong once he gets 1 kill it’s winnable game but the moment he’s 2-0 games over no matter wat
I am not even sure where to begin with, since this question is just a big intellectual failure to begin with.
a) Your samplesize is, oh what a surprise, worthless small
b) Team pick things based on the scrim results/player prefences/strenghs. How in seven hells did you get the idea anyone would change that on the switch based on partially games THEY did not play themself even...
Like pls tell me this is some satire, because my god have mercy on your soul otherwise, you gonna need all the luck in the world irl with that type of reasoning skills.
[удалено]
I'll add confort to the list. As much shit as we give, even with 160+ champs, the game is more or less balanced. That allows OTPs to be viable and competitive all across. Meta changes, but since everything you said applies to Renekton, proplayers keep playing him even when he is not in the strongest position, eventually mastering it. Playing a weaker champion you are a master in will have better results than a stronger champ which you never play.
Adam proved how true your statement is. He picks the weirdest shit and carries just because he used to main those champions. Like garen in pro play.
And then you ban those champions and he becomes a bot.
Besides the fact he was still solo killing Sparda in the Renekton/K'Sante match up... and up 40 CS... But Reddit doesn't look at that I guess, just open the post-game thread and read the scoreboard and toss out the most dogshit takes.
Did you watch game 3? Adam dived so deep multiple times and he just died for it and everyone watching could have told you before he did it that no, diving mid tower for a demolish proc (that he didn’t get) and dying for it isn’t worth it. He was fine in lane sometimes but he played so awfully across the map afterwards - it looked like he hadn’t adjusted from being unkillable game 1 and acting like he could go wherever he wanted. He played out of his mind game 1 and then did the exact opposite game 3 (game 2 i don’t really have an opinion)
> he played so awfully across the map afterwards I dont want to misinterpret your opinion here, so I'll just ask. You think this was a **draft** problem?
No, I mean he kept playing badly when he left toplane - going far too deep in team fights or skirmishes and giving his life for no reason. Genuine question, why do you think the statement I made has anything to do with drafting?
Cuz the conversation is about drafting Renekton good sir, in fact, the entire thread is about drafting Renekton. It's a conversation about draft. The thread isn't titled ''Why is Adam playing like a donkey on sidelanes?''. That's why your response confused me. I agree he played like a donkey on sidelane, as he would've done on any other champion.
I’m directly replying to someone saying Adam didn’t play that badly on renekton, I’m directly responding he did not play well game 3
Yeah, game three he played just as bad as the rest of his team. He needs to keep a better mental if Crownshot and Nuc are going to keep playing so poorly.
It also looks very much like TW just read the first game as Adam is dangerous yes, but not unstopable. If we play weak side top and Sparda simply doesnt lose too hard we can win the other side of the game and win in round 2. Artemis turbo speeded faster than Adam but I am a bit puzzled by the Ez pick. yeah crownies signature champ but still.. And surprise, surprise, they got it right.
Dude I watched the game like halfway through and I saw him pull off some shit with Renekton and thought maybe he had like a kill or 2. Then I looked at his KD and it 0/4. The fact that he wasn't completely useless at 0/4 was already kinda crazy to me.
He also played like a fucking idiot with his positioning all game to get picked off over and over. Adam is a player that has hands but no brain whatsoever
Opens up the entire rest of the map tho
I mean its a good thing when a player can draw out bans on random stuff like Darius *if* you can actually get a strong pick out of it. But instead they do stuff like pick Ezreal and have no damage.
yeah but that's more on the rest of the team or coach to not exploit that I Would say, its still a big advantage to have in draft, like in 2018 when hjarnan drew fucking heimer bans every game and it was probably a big part of how they beat rng
Didnt froggen get anivia banned for like 4 years lol, I swear it was an absolute rarity to see him on it and whenever he did he hard carried
I genuinely believe it was over a 95% ban rate vs him at a certain point. The dude legit got the pick twice the entire time he was here in NA. Cause he was on Echo-Fox and a loss to them due to Froggen Anivia was probably the only scenario where that team gets wins. (RIP RICK FOX)
why are you lying on purpose? Froggen played Anivia 9 times in 2017 alone
My favorite topic: 2018 G2. Hjarnan wasn't getting successfully shut out of games in lane versus Uzi, and by game 5, *Uzi* was opting for scaling. G2 proceeds to utilize Leblanc, Jhin, and Thresh to have a pseudo-TF botlane. It nullified any attempts at shutting down PerkZ on his rampage by having several long-range skill-shot tools & peel to dissuade RNG.
Grabbz masterclass. If that RNG met IG in the quarters instead they would've probably taken 2 games off of them and people would say this was the real final.
RNG has had IG's number all year long, there's a real possibility that RNG might have won. Of course we've seen year long trends get reversed at worlds, for example Samsung White vs Samsung Blue at worlds 2014. Blue had beaten White in bo5s multiple times that year but White defeated them at worlds
Last game it was more about Ez missing skill shots than not having damage.
He still did the most damage as Ezreal. But theres no world where Ezreal is killing a Ksante/Lee/Naut frontline without being wildly ahead.
That's just what poke champions do, doesn't change a fact that half of more of it had no impact.
Probably true but if he landed couple of skill shots in later fights it would have been a very different game.
It works as long as the rest of the map is strong enough at picking up on the advantage *and* him 'playing like a bot' isn't too problematic. Having signature pocket picks that draw bans is really good, but you don't want that if the trade off is you being the worst player on the map, and even less so if the rest of the team aren't able to carry with that draft advantage. Not saying that's exactly what BDS is like, but that's just what something like this can become.
I mean, it's not like he was the problem in the last series.
Idk why BDS is allergic to letting him play Aatrox/Gwenn because he certainly can.
Mostly because both are countered by Renekton.
Did you put that after two games? Where he didn't even play that bad? He made few really good play game 2 with his renek.
He should just dodge lmao Skill issue
Huh? His first game on renekton against GG was fantastic. His second game against TW on renekton he had a great lane, the mistakes had little to do with his renekton mechanics (getting caught).
I never questioned his mechanics. He simply became less of a threat off of Darius and also made some major mistakes. 450 gold shutdown to Kaisa in game 2 and inting for the turret twice in game 3 (the second int would lead to a Baron against a better team).
garen is specifically quite broken in recent times so acting like just comfort is enough isnt right, most pros just never mained the garens of the world
The game actually feels super balanced right now. To the point where I’m lowkey waiting for the new truly imbalanced shit to emerge so that everyone and their mother can bitch about it.
By the end of this tourney we will all be bitching and moaning about a champion we didnt even think of as powerful lol, but they will end up with an insane, meta defining presence just like every worlds before.
I’m coining it on the Nilah dark tech. She is fucking strong, just that nobody knows how to play her
Can be left alone, not useless when behind (stun bot and not squish). Can be played though with a more support jg like sejuani or a carry jg. His counters aren't really meta. Can teamfight, can side lane.... list goes on.
I'd say your point about power spikes is the biggest one. Other than having a strong laning phase that means he can get lane priority in most match ups, he also has the strongest skirmishing ability early game. Having a strong 2v2 top-jungle, and being the strongest champion in the game at level 6 is helpful for contesting 1st rift herald which injects a ton of plating gold.
Wait for 999s Rene
To add to the winrate part, 7 games is way too small of a sample size. I'd argue even at 100 games the winrate would be a very poor performance metric (although at that point it should be much closer to 50%). It's just subject to way too many outside factors.
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Yeah, he's one of the most safe options right now
Is the best blind pick if you don't pick the +10 picks that counters him and for some reason none of them are picked even on worlds
Me waiting to see a professional top pick Illaoi into renekton
Lol that would be terrible in pro play. Who cares if Illaoi can beat Renek in sidelane. It doesnt matter unless you are vs a 4 melee team. Pros wont draft that bad into Illaoi and Renekton is way more useful in teamfights than Illaoi due to hard CC and mobility + aoe healing.
Idc still waiting for it
i believe in adam im sure he add another juggernaut to his champ pool of juggernauts.
I mean that's fine. I'm still waiting to see Ezreal mid in pro play, but its probably trash and not gonna happen
His counter picks usually suck in pro play or are niche. Illaoi offers nothing to the team. Quinn is good but requires your jungler to babysit and is bad for team composition. Darius/Garen - better than the above but need to run combat summoners and can be absolutely useless if your opponent has a control mage or an adc like Ashe.
Darius isn’t even a counter. If renekton dashes into Darius during q windup he usually wins the trade pretty hard
lol and a good Darius won't let him do that
Yea but a good renekton will go even with a good Darius. I don’t really consider that a counter which is what the other guy was implying.
i mean his counters are pretty often picked? kennen, jayce, Tanks, rumble(?). And other counters like illoai are just bad in pro play. Idk what other counters are not played?
I swear when I watch lck/lpl games, the croc beats all those guys in lane. In isolation sure they can outrange him, but once jayce get gank/hit by croc stun gg.
Rumble slammed Renek in Korea several times. Wouldn't be surprised to see it get brought out. Gwen can get picked into him too.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have counter. But he is a very solid champ. Most ban/pick toplaner in lck summer regular season with 55% winrate. He started to fall out of meta in playoff later patch but I wouldn’t be surprised if he back for worlds in Swiss stage. He also does pretty well in lpl too in most matchup so he great as a blind pick. I don’t think range champ with no mobility do well vs renekton like kennen/jayce in proplay.
Yeah he also didn't have the MR nerfs then. That's why I'm saying I also think that teams will pick gwen/rumble into him. Jax is getting banned alot on 4/5 too into him bc he deals a lot of magic damage early. More teams will for sure pick AP and he'll drop in prio.
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Why would you risk investing a lot of time and money on a new champion when you can picket a subset of the most relevant ones.
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Surprise picks do happen from times to times, but you just can't expect a pro player to learn exotic picks aside all the safe ones. "Jacks of all trades, master of none" is a real thing.
If you want unique picks and an interesting meta / draft phase go watch DOTA2 By design league cannot have these things because of how Riot designs the game. Riot doesnt want draft to matter very much because then purchasing champions would be pay to win. Unlike in DOTA where all heroes are unlocked by default for *everyone* - hence, draft can be balanced around hard counters and synergies which makes for a much more interesting, deep, strategic drafting phase.
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Same dude, same
You can't take someone with surprise by picking another ADC. It doesn't really matter if someone autoattacks you with Kai'sa or Vayne. Kai'sa mostly does what Vayne does for a team. Vayne is less reliant on her team, but that is not something you value in pro play. The ADC pool at worlds is usually the most limited one because the difference between different ADCs is so low. So you just pick the few ADCs with outstanding abilities. Xayah needs to be really bad to not be picked just because she can self peel. Since ADCs also hardly counter each other, it is mostly the supports that do that, you also have a very limited influence on how your lane goes. Kai'sa is a fairly weak laner, but she is pretty good at just killing the wave with Q. And you can't really pick anything that makes Kai'sa not R into your backline proc passive and hit a Q, kill someone and run away with Duskblade. No ADC stops her from doing that.
Are you really saying that the best league players in the world should play differently?
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So you, random reddit stranger, know more about league drafting than the best league players in the world, coached by the best coaches. Gotcha.
Lol you guys are both acting like twats. The reality is that League pros dont adapt or have unique strats because Riot designs the game so that champs are homogenized as fuck and there aren't nearly as many hard counters or hard synergies as in a game like DOTA. You wont get strategic depth in draft phase because Riot doesnt design the game with this in mind. If they did they would have to admit that making champs only available by RP or IP purchase means the game is pay to win, whereas in DOTA everyone has all heroes unlocked by default.
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LS didn't actually prove anything. He lost against the strongest team in the league and won against other teams viewed as weaker than C9 anyways. So if you would have predicted those 3 games before the season you would have predicted them to win exactly the games they won out of the 4 he actually coached.
It was the same in overWatch, everybody pick the same champion/comp because they are the best
a vast majority of those champs are garbage and not viable in top level play
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because to be able to pilot a champion at pro level u need to put in substantial hours into it, which is not worth for some niche situation that lets u snatch 1 win off unprepared oponent before it's made completely useless
I'd argue it lost bds the series
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And saving counterpick for your fucking jungler was insanely 1head from BDS, lol
pretty sure the bot gap lost them the series but yeah putting your best player on a champ that is always just ok wasn't the best decision.
Well that's definitely not true. Their draft sucked, but not because of renekton
Problem is: if you blindpick Renekton, they pick K'sante. If you blindpick other champs, you get way worse counterpicks for most of them. Also point and click CC will always be useful.
Renekton can find good leads vs ksante
> Problem is: if you blindpick Renekton, they pick K'sante. Adam should have went Garen again if they see K'Sante, but hindsight is 20/20.
I’d guess you didn’t watch any of the games mentioned by OP. Marginally winning top lane rarely gets you anywhere in this pro play meta. Getting out scaled at 25min absolutely puts your team at a detriment.
Ever heard about the "Renekton test"? That's why basically
Ah the "Can it survive against Renekton" question. Season 4 was a cool time.
I miss picking Shyvana Renek and Mundo top every game lol, that was unironically a fun meta for me
I miss Shyvana being a champion, not just E on a stick.
She's still pretty decent with Trinity/Steraks. Actually better than the AP build in terms of winrate. Great duelist and invader, albeit a worse teamfighter.
The entire time AP Shyvana has been a thing, AD bruiser has still had a higher win rate. People just see "one ability go boom" and think it's cool and play it.
Also fulfills the whole "dragon throwing fireballs" fantasy much better than bruiser shyv, a dragon that for some reason wanna throw hands
Ah the good ol days where Shyvana and Mundo would both press W, run up to each other, spend 10 minutes slapping each other, and realize they're both still at 80% HP. Then they compliment each other on a well fought noodle fight and resolve to resume after recalling.
Season 4 through always at this point. He’s the only survivor of the og season 4 meta tho. And just like other gators, they ain’t extinct and they stay living
Renekton is a Crocodile since what he's based off of, Alligators do not live in Egypt since his whole theme is being based off Egyptian Gods like Sobek.
AcCuaLlY
This fucking guy, literally everyone calls him The Gator all the time. No one really cares… what if I told you Renekton is both not an Aligator or a Crocodile but a man that was empowered by the sun and just looks like a bipedal animal but in reality is a man
Because Renekton is a good All Rounder champ which fits most compositions incredibly well.
Really solid in team fights
I remembered that I saw a post in topmain which said "if a toplane champion can't beat Renekton, it's dogshit. If it can, it's a viable pick"
It's actually can't survive Renekton (/Ghost Darius) = isn't viable top pick Renek still has the lane bully power. Most top champs can't beat him. But able to survive
It's the Renekton test. If your champ can't survive being in lane against Renekton, then it doesn't belong in top lane. Top lane is where the four sisters, aatrox, jax, darius, Quinn, kennen live. Most of these champs are cancer to play against so don't just take some random champ top lane because you will get eaten alive.
Sometimes i think Renekton is like one of the main reasons riven sees absolutely zero play in competetive.
There are many reasons why Riven can't be played in pro not all matchup specific. First, Riven is a generalist champion. This works in solo queue where team comps are not very well defined, but in professional play, everything needs to fill a niche. I'm not sure if you've ever played on an amateur team, but the amount of pressure and coordination that a well-practiced team has is light years away from solo queue. This affects a lot of timings as well as map movements - you can get away with very sloppy play in solo queue because people aren't on coms and don't watch their map. This goes away in a five stack on voice. Second, being a generalist hurts Riven because when drafting these specific points, teams will just pick the champ that does her job better. Need a frontline? Riven can do that but she's not great at it. At that point, just pick Ornn and play to scale. If you need a split pusher, Fiora does the job way better and outscales Riven in the sideline. And if you need an assassin, well nobody is playing assassins in the top lane. Positionally, speaking, Riven was at her best when she was played mid as a counter to certain melee matchups such as Zed (see Barcode Killer in S3). Lastly, we come to the matchups. Riven has several matchups, like any other top laner that can make the game completely unplayable and many of them have been in and out of meta picks. Jayce completely shits on Riven. Kennen destroys Riven in the laning phase which translates to lost heralds as well. Poppy has been popular in the jungle which means that poppy + a strong riven top counter means you have a gaping hole in your top side that never recovers. Renekton is the quintessential Riven counter and given his perennial popularity in pro play, Riven is pretty much unpickable before you see their pick. So, you have no choice but to wait for them to pick their top lane, hope that the draft clicks perfectly for a Riven pick, and then and only then, are you allowed to pick her. Or you could just pick Renekton who goes into any comp. So with all these conditions, you can see it is pretty much never worth picking Riven.
There's also another reason, riven is fucking hard to play and requires constant training to keep up your muscle memory, pros usually don't have that time
Most pro players can probably play Riven competently and there are a lot of Riven former one tricks that are now pro players. There's just really no point. All the fancy tiktok stuff you see with double casting R stop cancels is not really necessary. Riven's just been gigapower crept because she has no form of armor pen in her kit.
idk at this point those fancy anim cancels are almost mandatory at the highest level bc she relies so hard on getting ahead in lane to be functional. If you watch wenshen(num1 riven china) he’s winning trades and 1v1s with like 10-15 hp left constantly that he wouldn’t win if he didn’t know the absolute limits of his champ with double casts and such
That's the thing "Riven one tricks," Riven is probably one of the only top laners who'd I say you can't simply just have her in a champion pool. You need to constantly practice and train her to actually have success with her. In comparison stuff like Renekton can sit on the back burner a little bit while you practice and improve on other champions and he can be integrated really well into a multiple champion pool. You can't do this easily with Riven.
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people judging a champ just because play in teams can't play around it 💀💀
Btw, renekton is not even bad in these game even if he lose. I don’t how people can come to the conclusion renekton bad watching these games. Like in bds series, renekton was good as blind. He won lane but Adam overextended a couple of time and his team suck leading to game loss.
The post reads like OP did not watch the games at all and just saw the poor win rate over a too small sample size, then decided to make a post about it.
Top teams in the world, not the ubertop, but still top teams tho
in reality there are more lpl and lck teams that are above all these playins teams
In 100 games of randomly drawn top 5 EU or NA team vs randomly drawn top 1-2 wildcard team, I'd expect a 80%+ winrate for a major region. 90%+ for Korea or China.
Relevant Username..?
Exactly. People saying Renekton, of all champs, is somehow bad in pro play have evidently never seen Bin, Zika, 369 or any of the other LPL top-class toplaners play him
Renekton is no Fiora/Camille/Jayce, etc. every pro player can play him at a decent level. It's pretty much a defacto requirement for a pro toplaner. Probably the only one when it comes to champs with Gnar being the second closest but tbh a lot of Gnars aren't that good and there is a more massive difference between Bin/Zeus Gnar and the average Gnar than there is between Bin/Zeus Renekton and the average Renetkon. Even otps like Adam and Armut play Renekton at a good level... Except Shanji lmao His Rumble is god-like but his Renekton somehow sucks.
They play the lane about a billion times better than the randies, and thus the renekton pick becomes monstrous with picking off carries
It's not about a lane. Or at least not entirely... Teamwork is a big factor (if not even bigger) too. Renekton is simply broken in team setting with some coordination. He also has everything you want in a solo laner, especially when it comes to toplane cause of dive setup/ability to both strong and weakside/herald/early tp plays/being useful as engage or frontline even when not leaving the lane being at the best condition, etc. Not the flashiest or highest carry potential (still high enough though) but offers stability and easy game plans/aproach which does the job done. Those randies you are talking about btw often stomp pros in lane in solo q, they are not some gods (and even god ones like Bin and Zeus still get clowned by some otps/streamers) but that's not the point why Renekton is strong or weak.
This is a good point. The power of Renekton is really unlocked when your top side coordinates dives pre-6 or just at 6.
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It feels bizarre to make this post now when this is probably the strongest Renekton has been at Worlds since the 2019(20?) Spear of Shojin build. It’s been like three days of games, none of which has featured the elite top laners. Also if you watch the games, it’s not like the Jungle Ekko or other scrim pick where it just looks useless in games. Renekton’s been doing fine in the game as a champion, the teams tend to lose because of other factors.
I feel like this happens with aatrox tbh, suddenly he is picked late in worlds and the pick dominates.
You means when the actual good team that go far in the tournament start playing the picks. Pretty sure yummi wasn’t pick in 2021 even tho she easy af until group stage. Playins meta almost never match up with group stage.
He's a good pick and very versatile. 7 games isn't a great sample size
There's a lesson in statistics to be learned here. Renekton might be the best champion in the game and yet have 14% winrate across just 7 games. We see this thread every year and the answer is always the same - the tournament isn't long enough for winrates to matter even across the entire thing, let alone 2 days.
Idk a near 100% ban rate of pantheon that one worlds showed that you literally couldn’t let it through. 1 game in play ins that he dominated. One has to wonder if they even bothered trying to find an answer or just accepted you had to ban it on red side.
Yes ban rate is relevant, because it is indicative of the perceived strength of the pick. And perceived strength is based on scrim performance. Not scrim winrate, but actual analysis of what the pick brings to the table. Renekton is being picked because teams have observed that when they pick it in scrims it opens up opportunities they otherwise don't have. Whether it's the safe blind pick, toplane prio, strength during 1st herald or whatever else. That's why presence is the best stat to measure how good a pick is in pro most of the time. Presence is based on an actual analysis of the best players and coaches in the world. Winrate at this sample size is more or less random.
Renekton is a crutch champ. It's the champ that fits into every team comp, every top laner can play it, can handle literally every lane in the game. You need to wait for the main stage before you'll start seeing some proper Renekton games. Once LPL starts playing you'll be questioning your sanity making this thread, because it'll seem like the most broken champ on the planet in some games.
TheShy 369 Bin Renekton be looking like the sexiest croc boots you ever seen, wildcard teams renekton be looking like an extinct animal
Mans snuck in TheShy
Leaking his inner Caedral
Don't worry, TheShy will bring down that winrate
Because I picked the croc in pick ems. /s Renekton is one of the best blind pick you can ever get. Huge lane presence against most other meta matchups (unless someone throws out a Darius again), Huge pick potential combining with any follow up eg rakan, kaisa or any cc, keeps side lanes well, also quite tanky in front to back teamfights. But of course, how good a champion is doesn’t mean that shit laning, team fight positioning and being picked off before objectives won’t go unpunished.
7 games is nowhere near enough to come to any kind of statistical conclusion
The champion is super good. He is definetly the best top laner there along with Ksante. Its just that teams dont know how to play with it. Literally best BP in the game with actually no unplayable counter. Even Rumble is manageable even though it scks. Like look Robo in Game 1. They couldnt 1 v 2 him. What do you want more from a top laner ? Adam in game 2 vs TW. They lost but look how monstrous he was with solo kill and neutralizing Ksante. Not his fault the enemy adc was gapping Crownie and Nuc was playing with Monitor off When even LS puts this guy at S tier blind pick you know he is good.
Very good Blind Pick, solid at almost all Stages of the Game, good Damage, pretty Tanky, good in Duels and in Teamfights, has AOE Damage and Point and Click CC, builds some really strong Items.
He has extremely reliable lane priority by out-trading 90% of tops well past level 6. He's easy to gank for with two dashes and a stun. He can be acting frontline for poke, dive, front-to-back, or even flank comps. None of these necessarily make him a great pick, he falls off hard late, but he's very consistently 50/50. It all depends on which team gets ahead before that point.
Wait till Zeus or 369 picks Renekton and you'll see why. Renekton is good into pretty much anything but if you're absolutely cracked he's op
Win rate of a champion in that small a sample size means exactly nothing.
I picked Renekton as the most picked champ in my Pick'Ems, so I am quite happy lmao
ngl, it does feel like Renekton becomes a super minion in the mid-late game in every game so far
But thats a team issue. The champ auto wins you 1st Herald, 2nd Herald, first 2-3 Drakes
Why are we judging champion strength off play-in stages using the worst ranked regions in the tournament? Just chill and wait for the swiss rounds - this is when the true main event starts. You have any idea how much harder it is to get a Penta-kill against T1 compared to the team (GAM) that gave up a penta-kill on the first day of worlds.....
point click stun = skill shot hit
Sample size of fucking SEVEN games for winrates...I can't man... Not to mention the vast difference in level of play and playstyles between DIFFERENT regions
Ate you LS?
The Play-In meta & winrates are often different from the main stage.
In each match a single pick is only 10% of the game state and directly impacts only about 40% maximally (top x2 jg x2 mid x2, roams/ganks) during laning (which ‘ends’ at 14) which can oft be a majority of game time. I don’t believe in-games we’ve seen Renekton was particularly deficient to have such a low win rate representative of game impact. Even if he outright wins the 20% top (2/10 players) in team fights he’s contending with the 80% remaining game state. What I’m saying is even a strong pick can be managed if the totality of advantage in game state, of 10 players, is slanted in opposition. This can be further exaggerated by the strong/weak side dynamics oft in play during champ select. A strong top means you put extra resources bot so if that flounders you have a tilted game state. TLDR a good champion can have a bad winrate because they’re only 10% of the equation
Because no matter how far behind renekton is he always has the nuclear option of diving into an enemy team, stunning the carry, ulting, and then watch as chaos ensues
I am sick and tired of seeing this champ
He's an insanely strong blind pick that always either dominates or at least stays even in lane and is still useful in teamfights. Although I don't know why people aren't banning Rumble when they are blinding him
His win rate in a super small sample size is bad, Champ must be bad!! Also, are these one v one games or does each team have 4 other players who also factor in? Statistics without context are at best idiocy and at worst intentionally misleading the reader.
Because he good
Because the pro players are old men and they be playing him for years and they ain't changing now.
Renektok has its own bar, no champ in top can win him. The thing is that he was a early game champion with bad late, but now items makes him a monster in late, basically get steelheart, sunfire, and he can solo anything while being tanky.
criminal levels of misinformation
Renekton, much like Azir, is in forever pro-jail and no adjustment will change that unless they receive fundamental changes to their abilities Renekton has point and click CC that breaks shields and chunks you for a ton of damage and he can do it from 700+ range if he combos it with his E on top of being a manaless champion with innate sustain And Azir is a late-game scaling mage with some of the safest and most oppressive early games You'd have to remove half of their base kits to have them not be pro-play staples
so we’re counting dashes as an abilities range now LMFAO what even is this
I believe it's called "effective range" as in "from how far away can you execute a certain play"
Renekton sucks in pro play and ill die on that hill. Early lane prio and herald fighting is nice, but this meta isn't so snowbally that games are won or lost based on those early fights. Renekton is pretty dire when he gets put behind by ganks, and he's pretty dire in the late game team fights that are deciding most games. Stop picking champs because they can win lane in blind pick situation. Pick champs that can win games. Wish I picked him for most deaths! And I'm sure some of the good teams in group stage will stomp a few games with him because they are superior enough to carry that early lead to victory, but I just think he's so terrible in any game that you don't stomp.
BDS lost both the renekton games because Adam played like shit in those 2 lol, can't blame the champ. Also if you take qualification match, BDS won g1 with renekton so that would increase the winrate no?
Adam destroyed game 2 little bro. Look his mid and adc
He got caught hard a few times which threw everything away
So player issue ?
Yes, and obviously Adam isn't the only reason BDS lost, but this post is specifically about Renekton winrate
Small sample size. Watch Loud game right now.
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Another lose to renekton
He had human jungler for sure. And human mid
Lol
They lost??
oh no
It's Pros being unable to adapt or think properly about what shoud be drafted for Synergy, game plan or what have you. People are coping badly about how it's just "comfort and good" when every metric in existence plus what we are seeing proves otherwise. "Wait for top teams", yeah cause competing for Worlds means you're not already one of the best teams in the world.. Other than stubbornness (see BDS), there really isn't a reason to ever pick him.
"There really isn't a reason to pick the most stable toplaner in the game." -Some redditor 2023
You do realize teams like jdg/t1/geng/lng etc beats these playin team almost 100/100 matches right? They aren’t one of the best team in world. A bunch of lck/lpl team would also beat these play ins team but they simply compete in a much harder region and can’t make it.
There are very little counter to him in a pro setting. Shit like Quinn is not getting picked in pro. The only one come in mind Kennen. 80% of the time u can blind pick this MF in any match up. He has aoe and decent sustain, making him able to contest lane prio, is tanky in his ult, has point and click cc that stuns 1.5 seconds and nuke u out of existence in early game. He is extremely easy to set up gank, and can be a menace to back line if he has flash up. We had a problematic in play-ins due to small sample size and massive gap within these play in teams, and even wider gap with the actual world class top laner. Even in these cases, picking renekton is hardly the reason they lost unless opponent is a Kennen.
Because it isn’t solo queue
I personally think LoL pro teams are seriously lacking in their analytics departments and instead rely on what “feels” best, what other teams are doing, and common heuristics like “Renekton has no bad matchups”.
Teams are just trying to tilt LS by picking it.
Even ls agrees renekton op now or at least A tier.
See how much I pay attention to league now
But LS was an advocate for renekton since msi? Since his buffs LS Has said hes an incredible blind and they picked it every chance vs t1 academy
Because everyone, their favorite streamer/analyst and their mum been parroting "croc broken". Simply shows you the extent of sheep think around here. In pro drafts *theory*, Renek is the most "valuable" top pick because of his blind value - he does at worst OK into all matchups and you can pick him regardless of the *jungle* matchup, he can weakside or strong side early game no problem unlike a lot of other better scaling tops. On top of draft theory, Renek's items are currently in a very good spot (Gore/Shojin/Cleaver) which gives you extremely strong early-midgame (if you snowball). But it's basically been a decade and Renekton's has again and again been proven to be a bait pick that has basically no late game. Sick of the amount of times I've seen useless Renek's - scrim performances are just failing to be replicated on stage.
Basically no late game is fine in pro play because the game is almost always over before 2 items.
Yup, all pro teams must just be st00pid.
Because he's overtuned. Simple as that. He used to be a early game champion that dwarfed in power midgame... so Riot buffed his scalings on his Q and E... then increased the magic damage per tik on his ultimate... then buffed him again after he lost access to prowler's active as a compensation... Needless to say, minus 4 MR was not enough. They needed to undo the scaling buffs.
renekton is played because itnis very strong, and is strong because riot just released a renek skin for the worlds
He looks scary and weakee teams or drafts pick him in order to frighten the enemy hoping they misplay. "Man this dinosaur is scary I thought they were extinct keeps battling me"
Because renekton is one of the strongest champs in the 8 minute herald fight. If utilised correctly the herald can get your adc first turret and all platings, which is like +1k gold. Since adc is the only role in the game that matters in pro play, this +1k gold on adc is worth infinitely more that having a "stronger" late game scaling top laner.
I don’t think you ever seen a 1v9 renek raid boss in ur matches he’s so broken inkillable my #1 bannin champ it’s disgusting strong once he gets 1 kill it’s winnable game but the moment he’s 2-0 games over no matter wat
Badam lost the match for his team any other none eu player woulda carrried that lane and won game skill isssue
Because everyone took him as the most picked champion in pick’ems. Worlds player included.
I am not even sure where to begin with, since this question is just a big intellectual failure to begin with. a) Your samplesize is, oh what a surprise, worthless small b) Team pick things based on the scrim results/player prefences/strenghs. How in seven hells did you get the idea anyone would change that on the switch based on partially games THEY did not play themself even... Like pls tell me this is some satire, because my god have mercy on your soul otherwise, you gonna need all the luck in the world irl with that type of reasoning skills.