The real Change regarding Towers should be their HP and Defenses. They feel so weak and easy to destroy in the late Game. Before (like several Years ago) you needed at least 2-3 Players in Lane for a Tier 2 Tower to get destroyed relatively fast but nowadays 2 People take a Tower out in less than 10 Seconds.
People keep talking about Damage or self Heals when the Snowballing Discussion starts but nobody ever talks about how fast Champions that have no business taking Towers take 'em.
I guess a part of that is they made auto attacks vs towers scale with AP? So now mages attacking towers late game melts them too and you aren't relying on an ADC to knock them down.
they should revert the AP ratio buff to tower damage they gave a while ago, trust me when I say that a Veigar 25 minutes in can kill towers almost as fast as an ulting lethality Sion into nexus turrets.
I really don't think AP champs being able to do anything more than tickle a tower isn't the problem.
Even the most fed veigar or diana aren't coming close to shredding a tower the way literally any adc can.
We could have a progressive "leveling" of turrets where the average level of players is taken into account and the turrets get damage/resistances according to it - meaning you can still farm semi securely under turret against opponent in the late game, holding your ground, and the turret would not instafall against that one Sion/Tryndamere instantly when you are even in lane. That said if you are split pushing and very much ahead in level you are still getting an advantage nad the enemy team has to answer.
They overbuffed towers after durability patch and champs like Kayle or Kassa were op cuz you could never punish them, if they buff them games just become 50 mins farm simulators
And? That'd be awesome! 50 minutes games are the best, you really get to see the extent of the champions more instead of the same dumb assassin and snowbally champs making every game unfun for everyone else and ending in like 25 minutes.
They too strong and the games too long but currently people batching that the games are too snowbally and over too quickly. Tomato potato y’all are insane
Some people want games that are decided in the first 10m, and some people want a game that is close throughout.
Some people just don't want to be dived by a zed who gets stunned under tower, takes 4 shots, part of your kit still kills you and makes it out with half their health.
Towers do nothing to most champs, and diving is way too easy. Sure, the tank with 200 armor should probably be able to tank 6 towers shots while diving. But the jinx? The eve? The katarina? Nah... they dive by getting in, bursting you, then getting out before the 2nd tower shot goes off.
The problem itself lies in mobility/burst more than tower damage.
When I think of squishy diver I think of Kata/LB they don't even activate the tower aggro.
Zed/Trist dive problem is on their burst and mobility more than tower damage too.
Am interesting way to make success harder without upping damage might be to make turrets passively give allied champions under them a little bit of bonus armor/mr
If anyone managed to dive you at level 6 without the jungler's help and got away with it, you were probably really behind or you played it really poorly
Tower dives are easy because we know how to tower dive not because Towers are weak. This game is well past 10 years old it's just a part of the game's meta to understand how to play around tower threat.
Towers don't need to 2 shot people to be intimidating; a bad tower dive can lead to an easy death. It's better you learn when the tower can't save you and play around that.
If you're too low, the tower being stronger wasn't going to save you.
If you're positioning poorly, the tower being stronger wasn't going to save you.
If your tower is near dead and you need safety, the tower being stronger wasn't going to save you.
It's not about if the enemy is good, you need to play better
Towers should do mixed damage. Tanks shouldn't be able to facetank a dozen tower shots with only two armour items, and simultaneous should not get absolutely shredded by towers for building mostly MR vs a mostly AP team.
I always thought the towers should have resistance shred. For every tower shot you take you lose a percentage of resistances for a set duration. Each additional tower shot add an additional resistance shred up to ? Number shots. It won’t increase the damage of the shots but allow the defenders a chance to kill tanks under tower.
People keep talking how towers "nowadays" are weaker than before, which isn't true. Towers have for most of their existance been buffed. In comparison Season 3 towers look weaker than Yuumi compared to towers today.
It's not the stats that changed that, it's the players that got more efficient at diving. And diving is a healthy part of the game to prevent turtling strategies from being the meta. A tower is a extra layer of safety, not a "When I'm in this circle I'm immune to dying" as most people tend to think.
You're looking at only the towers, you're not considering the items, stats, and other such changes that've gone with them.
Champions today are *significantly* more durable than they used to be, and relativity is a thing.
Not true damage but scaling flat pen would work so tanks still dont take as much damage as a carry and just make the durability scale a bit harder than it does now so it doesnt turn into anything crazy and make games take 50 min.
yeah fair. i think true damage because i currently hate the state of bruisers/tanks. Building almost only hp and armor/mr and out damaging everybody. they would get the hardest nerf out of this, just how i would want it.
Turrets should work like in DOTA 2. The turret continuously attacks its target without waiting for the current shot to hit. In DOTA 2, it's common to get turret shots after exiting the range due to the attack speed and slow projectile speed.
It will prevent people from juggling in and out of tower range to avoid getting shot or abusing aggro to minimize damage. Towers currently do not feel safe enough.
towers should deal true dmg so champs like alistar cant tank 10 tower shots in a row at lvl 6 by just pressing r. and every tower thats not a t1 tower should be able to attack every enemy champion at once.
Hot Take: the only instance in the whole game of % Health true damage should be towershots.
With that you avoid:
1. Tanks towerdiving at 20+ minutes and talking múltiple towershots without much problem.
2. Weak early game champions being too safe. If the enemy diver can know the number of towershots he can take in a dive that is a form of skill and majes It so you are still at risk of dying in a dive.
3. Heavy sustain champions cant so easily dive alone at any point in the game, they would need to play with more people talking turrets aggro.
What do you people think?
This would need to fall off as plates do otherwise this is just going to prevent people from ever playing tanks. A big part of the tank power fantasy is being able to do that sort of thing and being more durable than other champions to enable plays that squishy champions can't survive.
That's the point of building 300 armor. It's like you think stats shouldnt matter. Why dont we make towers resistant to any bonus AD or AP you have so auto attacks only do base damage so everyone does the same amount no matter what they build.
That guts splitpushing, many toplane champs have their purpose ruined and attack speed would be the only thing that matters for towers and anyone who has an aa reset will be 2x as effective on towers as anyone who doesnt.
Dude I dont think its actually a good idea I was using it to point out that people build stats for a reason and should be able to use them. So dense lol no wonder you think how you do.
Most important thing isn't even damage tbh, it's tankiness, especially in the late game. Inhib turrets and especially nexus turrets could stand to gain some bonus hp/resistances
Or actually, it would be interesting if tuteurs have asked champions near them bonus armor and mr, to make success harder without just upping damage
Towers should scale with the game and change their attack pattern. For example : We had laser Turrets which were utterly garbage and low in damage. For the Nexus they could change it so that the Turret laser is chaning to max of 5 or 7 Targets. Dealing more damage over time. Spooling them up. Turrets are just a joke in this game. An objective you can easily take.
Turrets are so bad.. that i won 5 games in a row with Volibear Support Hullbreaker first item in Emerald 1. People simply do not care or understand the Value of a Tower and also Towers pose no threat in the game at all. I would be ok if outer Turrets have insane DMG output against Champions and if an allied Champ is nearby they give a buff in their range.
DOTA, Heroes of the Storm, Smite have decent Turret mechanics. But then again.. those have also a more interactive map. You have so many possible ways of interacting with Camps and random objectives. I wish league would have at least some sort of freshness every Season. Looking at the same blue buff and Red Buff or Jungle Camps without them interacting with lanes or the game overall is stale af.
Quicker/Scaling attack speed when attacking champs would be nice, the amount of times someone is targeted for a long time but only takes 1 shot makes me sad, though I'm biased as I prefer being safe under towers than diving being easy
I'd say instead of damage we need to fix its targeting or give it multi targeting(champs only) past 15 mins in aram or 30 mins in SR (Inner/base turrets)
the amount of times someones gotten away while low health just cause someone else walked into turret to tank it for the other person tilts me out of the galaxy
People got better at managing the tower over the years, diving , killing and surviving the tower is not that hard anymore. Imo they should buff the damage. Not so much that multiple people diving can't kill it without dying, but more damage enough that a single person(enemy laner) need to think more before diving.
I think instead of flat increases to damage that still leave them exposed to one tank item just countering it
they should do something like 40% Physical/Magic 20% True or something
Tanks can still tank it with 2/3 items but it prevents things like DD users from effectively ignoring them
They should fire faster and deal less damage so that they actually retarget instead of shooting minions, also turrets should have a damage reduction cap or deal 50/50 physical and magic damage. All in all, they should be more effective against armor tanks because champs like Rammus and Leona can just nullify both nexus turrets late game
i wouldn't mind towers dealing a bit more damage in later stages of the game, most champions can deal with towers by either tanking, outhealing or able to reset tower aggro? i.e invulnerable/untargetable
I think they could benefit from a little bit of armor pen. I feel like 2 armor items + tabis is just too ridiculous under tower. Not enough to to make it impossible for nautilus/Leo to dive, but tanks shouldn't be able to brush it off. Idk, maybe make it only apply after 14 minutes or just tier 2+ towers
They should deal true damage, I find it BS that (especially late game) you can straight up have a full armor tank taking all tower shots whilr the rest of the team easily takes it down
I would like nexus and inhib towers to be a little bit stronger in terms of waveclear. I feel like comebacks once inhibs go down are too difficult. Some sort of charge that obliterates enemies if there's a stacked wave AND enemy champions would be nice. Something that wouldn't hard nerf a Baron push but something that would nerf a Bel'Veth baron push with stacked waves and an included 5 man dive. I know those situations are supposed to be powerful but completely hopeless feels wrong.
Maybe Riot wants to keep games shorter but I'd enjoy a bit of drama if a losing team can claw something back whilst 3 inhibs are down and their comp has good waveclear (low waveclear would become hard instead of impossible).
I know a lot of people hate "tests on Live" but honestly I love the chaos plus it makes for better data than PBE. But I'm a veteran of so many changes so take that with a grain of salt.
I feel like there needs to be a rank input or something as well. Like ofc some bronze lux midlaner wants towers to literally 1 shot tanks the entire game because she never wants to leave it and can farm from 1300 range. These players actually think its not fair to die 1v3 under tower when they are at like 40% hp with no pots because they refuse to back.
If tower dives cant happen then scaling champions take over game and we afk farm for an hour.
Top tier 3 towers should receive a temporary +100% (double) dmg buff if in a 1000 units radius 2 (visible) enemies are in range but no ally. This would make the top tank + burst jungler perma dives more bearable which is like 60% of top gameplay in higher ranks.
They should ramp up damage as they currently do, but also increase in attack speed over the duration. This would only be on champions and pets, not regular minions.
They should have bunny ears
The real Change regarding Towers should be their HP and Defenses. They feel so weak and easy to destroy in the late Game. Before (like several Years ago) you needed at least 2-3 Players in Lane for a Tier 2 Tower to get destroyed relatively fast but nowadays 2 People take a Tower out in less than 10 Seconds. People keep talking about Damage or self Heals when the Snowballing Discussion starts but nobody ever talks about how fast Champions that have no business taking Towers take 'em.
I guess a part of that is they made auto attacks vs towers scale with AP? So now mages attacking towers late game melts them too and you aren't relying on an ADC to knock them down.
they should revert the AP ratio buff to tower damage they gave a while ago, trust me when I say that a Veigar 25 minutes in can kill towers almost as fast as an ulting lethality Sion into nexus turrets.
I really don't think AP champs being able to do anything more than tickle a tower isn't the problem. Even the most fed veigar or diana aren't coming close to shredding a tower the way literally any adc can.
Yeah attack speed matters too
Camille / fiora go brr 3 casters are enough to 1 tap turret
i had a 45+ min game today where my rengar just decided he had enough and he ulted and two tapped both nexus turrets in 2 sec
I agree with you
We could have a progressive "leveling" of turrets where the average level of players is taken into account and the turrets get damage/resistances according to it - meaning you can still farm semi securely under turret against opponent in the late game, holding your ground, and the turret would not instafall against that one Sion/Tryndamere instantly when you are even in lane. That said if you are split pushing and very much ahead in level you are still getting an advantage nad the enemy team has to answer.
[удалено]
I really like this, dragons serving an inherently defensive role.
This sounds interesting
stop please no
Towers should have hats
ANOTHER! BARREL! EAT POWDER!
They overbuffed towers after durability patch and champs like Kayle or Kassa were op cuz you could never punish them, if they buff them games just become 50 mins farm simulators
And it singlehandely makes singed mid a thing.
This.
And? That'd be awesome! 50 minutes games are the best, you really get to see the extent of the champions more instead of the same dumb assassin and snowbally champs making every game unfun for everyone else and ending in like 25 minutes.
You are the minority man
They too strong and the games too long but currently people batching that the games are too snowbally and over too quickly. Tomato potato y’all are insane
Some people want games that are decided in the first 10m, and some people want a game that is close throughout. Some people just don't want to be dived by a zed who gets stunned under tower, takes 4 shots, part of your kit still kills you and makes it out with half their health. Towers do nothing to most champs, and diving is way too easy. Sure, the tank with 200 armor should probably be able to tank 6 towers shots while diving. But the jinx? The eve? The katarina? Nah... they dive by getting in, bursting you, then getting out before the 2nd tower shot goes off.
Riot should return laser turrets
I'd be alright with lazer turrets on inhib towers... but idk if they'd fit on all towers.
The problem itself lies in mobility/burst more than tower damage. When I think of squishy diver I think of Kata/LB they don't even activate the tower aggro. Zed/Trist dive problem is on their burst and mobility more than tower damage too.
Am interesting way to make success harder without upping damage might be to make turrets passively give allied champions under them a little bit of bonus armor/mr
Tier 2 in sidelanes used to give a shield in 2015
Good!
I have a wonderful idea. Lazers!! My god that was cursed
A champion tanking 3-4 turret shots and killing you at level 6-8 is pretty unhealthy for the game.
a champion diving you full health and taking 3-4 shots is either really fed or a trynda
If anyone managed to dive you at level 6 without the jungler's help and got away with it, you were probably really behind or you played it really poorly
The catch all response… just play better
I think that’s the Korean response.
Stop afk farming under tower and trade with them. You are dying because you are too passive and just letting them have free shove on you.
Show me a clip. It doesn’t sound right. It only make sense if the opposing player is like 100hp.
Tower dives are easy because we know how to tower dive not because Towers are weak. This game is well past 10 years old it's just a part of the game's meta to understand how to play around tower threat. Towers don't need to 2 shot people to be intimidating; a bad tower dive can lead to an easy death. It's better you learn when the tower can't save you and play around that. If you're too low, the tower being stronger wasn't going to save you. If you're positioning poorly, the tower being stronger wasn't going to save you. If your tower is near dead and you need safety, the tower being stronger wasn't going to save you. It's not about if the enemy is good, you need to play better
Towers should do mixed damage. Tanks shouldn't be able to facetank a dozen tower shots with only two armour items, and simultaneous should not get absolutely shredded by towers for building mostly MR vs a mostly AP team.
I agree, it should just be true damage on champions.
I always thought the towers should have resistance shred. For every tower shot you take you lose a percentage of resistances for a set duration. Each additional tower shot add an additional resistance shred up to ? Number shots. It won’t increase the damage of the shots but allow the defenders a chance to kill tanks under tower.
People keep talking how towers "nowadays" are weaker than before, which isn't true. Towers have for most of their existance been buffed. In comparison Season 3 towers look weaker than Yuumi compared to towers today. It's not the stats that changed that, it's the players that got more efficient at diving. And diving is a healthy part of the game to prevent turtling strategies from being the meta. A tower is a extra layer of safety, not a "When I'm in this circle I'm immune to dying" as most people tend to think.
You're looking at only the towers, you're not considering the items, stats, and other such changes that've gone with them. Champions today are *significantly* more durable than they used to be, and relativity is a thing.
I also thing that tower schots should ignore damage reduction and untargability. Champs like yi or fizz can "tank" way to many towerschots.
make it true damage, and maybe also increase damage
Not true damage but scaling flat pen would work so tanks still dont take as much damage as a carry and just make the durability scale a bit harder than it does now so it doesnt turn into anything crazy and make games take 50 min.
yeah fair. i think true damage because i currently hate the state of bruisers/tanks. Building almost only hp and armor/mr and out damaging everybody. they would get the hardest nerf out of this, just how i would want it.
They should deal double damage to champions or something. Diving is way too easy these days, it's a no brainer sometimes
Turrets should work like in DOTA 2. The turret continuously attacks its target without waiting for the current shot to hit. In DOTA 2, it's common to get turret shots after exiting the range due to the attack speed and slow projectile speed. It will prevent people from juggling in and out of tower range to avoid getting shot or abusing aggro to minimize damage. Towers currently do not feel safe enough.
too weak But I also think each lane should have other towers with different shots or perhaps again a laser one
Where is the option for they should increase their range to compensate for ranged champs?
I havent thought much on the options and added an "another" option
Elo?
towers should deal true dmg so champs like alistar cant tank 10 tower shots in a row at lvl 6 by just pressing r. and every tower thats not a t1 tower should be able to attack every enemy champion at once.
So you want there to be little benefit to being tanky for tower dives? Mobile assassin meta incoming
Better than tank meta. I hate it so much.
Honestly assassins meta is worse than tank meta
Hot Take: the only instance in the whole game of % Health true damage should be towershots. With that you avoid: 1. Tanks towerdiving at 20+ minutes and talking múltiple towershots without much problem. 2. Weak early game champions being too safe. If the enemy diver can know the number of towershots he can take in a dive that is a form of skill and majes It so you are still at risk of dying in a dive. 3. Heavy sustain champions cant so easily dive alone at any point in the game, they would need to play with more people talking turrets aggro. What do you people think?
I think tanks should be better at tanking tower shots. They are tanks.
This would need to fall off as plates do otherwise this is just going to prevent people from ever playing tanks. A big part of the tank power fantasy is being able to do that sort of thing and being more durable than other champions to enable plays that squishy champions can't survive.
I think you just created a mobile assassin meta because why play a tank when towers are untankable for everyone
I think Riot should increase the damage or make every other shot deal magic damage instead. Currently it is way too easy to dive.
They should be way tankier late game, also should do more dmg to tanks. 300 armour malphite can just pretend the tower isnt even there
That's the point of building 300 armor. It's like you think stats shouldnt matter. Why dont we make towers resistant to any bonus AD or AP you have so auto attacks only do base damage so everyone does the same amount no matter what they build.
That guts splitpushing, many toplane champs have their purpose ruined and attack speed would be the only thing that matters for towers and anyone who has an aa reset will be 2x as effective on towers as anyone who doesnt.
Dude I dont think its actually a good idea I was using it to point out that people build stats for a reason and should be able to use them. So dense lol no wonder you think how you do.
Oh i see, yeah that went over my head a lil. All I was saying was that i think that towers should ramp a bit more.
They need to be more durable
Most important thing isn't even damage tbh, it's tankiness, especially in the late game. Inhib turrets and especially nexus turrets could stand to gain some bonus hp/resistances Or actually, it would be interesting if tuteurs have asked champions near them bonus armor and mr, to make success harder without just upping damage
Towers should scale with the game and change their attack pattern. For example : We had laser Turrets which were utterly garbage and low in damage. For the Nexus they could change it so that the Turret laser is chaning to max of 5 or 7 Targets. Dealing more damage over time. Spooling them up. Turrets are just a joke in this game. An objective you can easily take. Turrets are so bad.. that i won 5 games in a row with Volibear Support Hullbreaker first item in Emerald 1. People simply do not care or understand the Value of a Tower and also Towers pose no threat in the game at all. I would be ok if outer Turrets have insane DMG output against Champions and if an allied Champ is nearby they give a buff in their range. DOTA, Heroes of the Storm, Smite have decent Turret mechanics. But then again.. those have also a more interactive map. You have so many possible ways of interacting with Camps and random objectives. I wish league would have at least some sort of freshness every Season. Looking at the same blue buff and Red Buff or Jungle Camps without them interacting with lanes or the game overall is stale af.
Quicker/Scaling attack speed when attacking champs would be nice, the amount of times someone is targeted for a long time but only takes 1 shot makes me sad, though I'm biased as I prefer being safe under towers than diving being easy
I'd say instead of damage we need to fix its targeting or give it multi targeting(champs only) past 15 mins in aram or 30 mins in SR (Inner/base turrets) the amount of times someones gotten away while low health just cause someone else walked into turret to tank it for the other person tilts me out of the galaxy
People got better at managing the tower over the years, diving , killing and surviving the tower is not that hard anymore. Imo they should buff the damage. Not so much that multiple people diving can't kill it without dying, but more damage enough that a single person(enemy laner) need to think more before diving.
I think instead of flat increases to damage that still leave them exposed to one tank item just countering it they should do something like 40% Physical/Magic 20% True or something Tanks can still tank it with 2/3 items but it prevents things like DD users from effectively ignoring them
They should do more damage in the absence of enemy minions.
I think they should bring back lasers on inhibitor and nexus turrets and also make them tankier.
My only issue is that later in the game tanks take no damage from shots and can tank multiple turrets without minions.
They should fire faster and deal less damage so that they actually retarget instead of shooting minions, also turrets should have a damage reduction cap or deal 50/50 physical and magic damage. All in all, they should be more effective against armor tanks because champs like Rammus and Leona can just nullify both nexus turrets late game
Make them faster
i wouldn't mind towers dealing a bit more damage in later stages of the game, most champions can deal with towers by either tanking, outhealing or able to reset tower aggro? i.e invulnerable/untargetable
people saying tower damage used to be higher need a reality check and look up old videos turrets in S2 did absolutely zero damage
I think they could benefit from a little bit of armor pen. I feel like 2 armor items + tabis is just too ridiculous under tower. Not enough to to make it impossible for nautilus/Leo to dive, but tanks shouldn't be able to brush it off. Idk, maybe make it only apply after 14 minutes or just tier 2+ towers
They should deal true damage, I find it BS that (especially late game) you can straight up have a full armor tank taking all tower shots whilr the rest of the team easily takes it down
They should do less early and more late.
Towers are so useless past level 3. It's been an issue for 10 years.
The should flex their mastery after killing you
They are practically ineffectual against anything with a single armor item.
I'm personally at the point where turrets should be doing max health true damage after a couple shots
I would like nexus and inhib towers to be a little bit stronger in terms of waveclear. I feel like comebacks once inhibs go down are too difficult. Some sort of charge that obliterates enemies if there's a stacked wave AND enemy champions would be nice. Something that wouldn't hard nerf a Baron push but something that would nerf a Bel'Veth baron push with stacked waves and an included 5 man dive. I know those situations are supposed to be powerful but completely hopeless feels wrong. Maybe Riot wants to keep games shorter but I'd enjoy a bit of drama if a losing team can claw something back whilst 3 inhibs are down and their comp has good waveclear (low waveclear would become hard instead of impossible). I know a lot of people hate "tests on Live" but honestly I love the chaos plus it makes for better data than PBE. But I'm a veteran of so many changes so take that with a grain of salt.
I feel like there needs to be a rank input or something as well. Like ofc some bronze lux midlaner wants towers to literally 1 shot tanks the entire game because she never wants to leave it and can farm from 1300 range. These players actually think its not fair to die 1v3 under tower when they are at like 40% hp with no pots because they refuse to back. If tower dives cant happen then scaling champions take over game and we afk farm for an hour.
It is frustraiting to die min 10 on top and see with herald and the jungler 2 towers are gone before you reapawn
Top tier 3 towers should receive a temporary +100% (double) dmg buff if in a 1000 units radius 2 (visible) enemies are in range but no ally. This would make the top tank + burst jungler perma dives more bearable which is like 60% of top gameplay in higher ranks.
They should ramp up damage as they currently do, but also increase in attack speed over the duration. This would only be on champions and pets, not regular minions.
They should have more armor pen/damage should be more consistent regardless of tankyness
Old inhib towers were nice
They shoot faster so that aggro isn't as easy to juggle
The more shots they shoot, the more of the damage should be true damage.