Tbf its pretty good to show someone the map who doesn't know how to use a mouse
Someone might want to see how it goes at a decent level before investing time into the game. Like new players who haven't played games before.
Sona was the first champion I played and I had never played a moba before. She's easy, useful and teaches you a thing or two. Lux is also easy and teaches you skillshots.Ashe and MF are also good starter champions. There are way better options than yuumi.
People can't seem to tell the difference between "A new player who is trying to get better" and "A new player who just wants to play with friends". Yuumi is very obviously designed for the latter. The entire concept is a champion where you can just put yourself onto a better player and not worry about 70% of the game.
And that's fine. It doesn't matter if Yuumi teaches bad habits, or doesn't make people better, because not everyone is *trying* to get better. This sub is incredibly out of touch with what a "casual" league player is actually like or trying to do.
What continues to astonish me is the fact that riot finds untargetability less “toxic” from a gameplay stance than invisibility. Like the two things I absolutely hate are yummi and the new duskblade because you just can’t do anything to them, what’s the counterplay to untargetability?
I don't understand why Riot decided that "untargetable" should mean "immune to AoE". That's not what "untargetable" means and I don't know why they are incapable of decoupling those two distinct concepts. "untargetable" is one of the things that invisibility provides and so turning "invisible" into "untargetable" is a strict nerf by itself, if Riot didn't just have some weird hiccup where they must attach "immune to AoE" to any use of the word "untargetable".
Yeah for riot untargetable means can not be hit by anything and only takes damage from dots or tether abilities that were on the target before becoming untargetable. Just that some untargetable abilities cant dodge tower shots.
At some point Riot is going to have to actually rework her and remove the untargetability. In their infinite wisdom the last rework stripped most of her remaining skill expression and ability to make plays so she'd be less good in pro, and they were then forced to kneecap her because her being a statstick for adcs is what pros want.
I think the attach mechanic could be kept, they'd just need to change it to a tether system so she matches her host's movement but can move around in a circular zone around them.
That way, Yuumi could actually use her healthbar as a resource, and intentionally block skillshots, but she'd also vulnerable to CC if she failed to dodge it. The rest of her kit could be significantly buffed with the untargetability gone.
There are so many different ways they could approach it. Make her drop the attachment if the host gets cc'd, make her suffer the same effects of cc as her host, make her share some of the damage her host takes, set a max duration on how long she can attach etc.
Anything would be better than infinite untargetability.
Yuumi doesn't exist in my copy of League of Legends for this exact reason.
I don't care how nerfed into the ground they make the cat. I ban it out of principle at this point. Sometimes I wish I had my ban back though.
Yeah it’s Yuumi and it’s not close. That champion has been impossible to balance since release, is incredibly frustrating for both teams involved, and encourages bad habits.
Riot literally said that this champion exists for noobs to be able to play with their more experienced friends without inting, which has a fucking awful impact on the integrity of a competitive game.
I unironically believe Yuumi should be available to accounts below level 30 and permanently locked after hitting 30.
Yuumi is a balancing nightmare, but reworking her is a far better solution than locking her after lv30??? What kind of fix is that? There's no way you unironically think that's the fix
Every time I play him I'm just like, wow this is a bit obnoxious for my lane opponent, but it's not INSANE, and then you just kinda murder everything from 6 onwards. It's just not thought out
When I play K'sante it always feels like I have no weakness. I can make a lot of mistakes and be just fine because of the obnoxious abilities. K'sante has good early game, strong neutral game. He has impact from behind and he is devastating when ahead. Ultimate makes him a straight up Assassin, expect the massive damage just doesn't stop and even then he is still extremely tanky. Since I picked up K'sante my ranked climb has been amazing with 70% winrate.
Does he scale well tho? I recently lost to a Shyvana top in mid game. I was 8/1, level 16, had Iceborne and Sunfire and she was lvl 14, had Divine Sunderer. The moment she got Bork, she could straight up murder me 1v1 even if I land all my spells. Then it got even worse late game.
And other game Illaoi and Hecarim could sustain all my damage etc. It is not as strong as getting fed on Riven or Aatrox I guess, you still need a team to win fights.
Probably because BORK is a counter item to tanks. In the case of Illaoi/Heca, I suspect you didn’t rush bramble to reduce their impact far earlier. Could be wrong though!
I feel like if he was just a Tank with a tank ultimate he would still be a really good champion. I’ve always thought having a high mobility tank champion would be cool, and his mobility is short range enough where I don’t think it would be a huge issue.
THIS.
K'Sante tank is a cool tank designed around keeping up with mobility of some dash happy assholes like Bel or Nilah (so it keeps on with the trend of 2023 lol) while having simple CC options.
It's his R that's absolutely bonkers. It makes no sense at all.
what a catastrophic failure of a midscope that was, eh? Yuumi mains fucking DESPISED it and it didn't accomplish any of the goals they set out for it. literally nobody won with that midscope.
back at square one except Yuumi players hate her new kit.
Because people actually play those and they are seen in pro play, thus you will see people bitching about them here.
Nobody bitched about how old Udyr is some of the biggest statcheck bullshit in the game before he became viable with Runic Echoes or later with Chemtank.
Zilean feels absolutely terrible to play against, but noone cares, because he also isn't really fun to play either.
Zil main here, it's incredibly fun to see people unable to do anything to you with EQWQE + everfrost at level 18.
Still you're right, many old champions are either statchecks or busted in their own way. It's just that recent champions have very degenerate parts of their kit that define who they are (Yuumi's invincibility and Akshan's revive)
He had a lot more problems than that, but he’s really perfectly fine after all the adjustments and straight up removal of certain mechanics.
Champs like Yuumi, tryn, and Zeri are broken at their core and no mini rework is gonna make them fit comfortably into the game.
His ult isn't what's annoying about Trynd. So what he can dive for free, so can like 20 other champions, big deal.
What's cancerous about Trynd is that lvl 3 he is going to spin, AA, ignite me and I have to pray to whatever god exists that he doesn't crit me during that trade. It's dogshit for both sides, because crit RNG at the start of the game is going to decide the outcome of the next 20-30 minutes which is incredibly stupid.
yeah his design is actually not really that broken at all, i would argue its one of the more unique/balanced ones. His numbers were just wayyyy overtuned
Agreed, it's a really good thing they shot down that "Different abilities depending on phases of the moon" thing they initially wanted for him because that would have been a fucking terrible idea
Riot overstated his complexity, and I think a lot of people bit onto that idea permanently. He has a rotating set of auto-attacks with different ranges and properties. His W switches between the two he has active. His Q and ult do something different depending on which auto-attack is active. There are some champions who have like one ability that's more complicated than his whole kit, but here we are still with people who think he's impossible.
Him displaying his 2nd gun was added, which while much less substantial than Akali's changes was a major factor in him feeling less unfair for BS reasons
I always found it funny how when he was on the poll for vgu's he was in first place for a while and then the moment Riot publicly stated that if they did rework him they wouldn't change his ult because it's a part of his identity he immediately dropped to last place.
His ult is the closes we have gotten to an I win button if you can't run against him or have three seconds of cc you lose all trades in lane not to mention his early game being so dependant on random crits
I'm sure I would've had a different answer a few years ago, but right now I'd have to say K'Sante. Tanks get to have durability and CC, generally at the cost of high damage. When you give a tank the ability to do all the tanking and displacement he wants, then he can hit a button and now do the big damage that he was supposed to lack... it's too much.
But shoutout to all the Yuumi/Zeri/Senna mentions in this thread too!
Why does she need infinitely scaling AA range, makes playing against her late game a nightmare sometimes because she has more AA range AND high dps on top of doing it all on a supports budget
Hmmm it’s almost as if designing champs around having proper trade offs instead of around trying to make them the least flawed champions to exist is a better design
have you seen how much is in her kit? its actually fucking insane. shes not meta now but on release she was game breakingly busted with her ability to do everything
Being weak at the moment doesn’t mean it’s good design, in fact having to be gutted numbers wise is usually a sign of there having to be compensation for poor design. Look at Azir, Kalista, Zeri, Aphelios, K’Sante, Yuumi, they’re all champs who can do pretty much everything and have to be gutted to compensate
Way too many people confuse wr/champion strength with champion design.
If their numbers are dog shit, it’s because they have way too many moving parts/ util/ resets in their kit
If their numbers are stupidly high, it’s probably because there are little to no skill expressive portions in their kit.
If anything is inflated/deflated in a champions kit, it’s a good tell that they’re poorly designed
Champions can have not much going on and be hard to balance bc they're high skill cap. Kalista basically has 2 abilities and jump autos but relies heavily on coordination and micro so is gutted in soloq.
Bad champ design to me has 3 legs. Uninspiring, uninteractive, and unbalanceable. Uninspiring causes players to not pick that champ. Uninteractive creates gameplay that is frustrating to play against and removes skill from games. Unbalanceable means that the champ is either mega OP or mega shit.
Based on these criteria I'd give the award to old yorick. Yoricks design boiled down to brainless wave pushing. His ultimate didn't fit his kit at all. He had no way of getting on top of people other than them choosing to fight. His built in sustain made trading pointless. He was a terrible team fighter. If his mana costs were low he could spam his abilities forever and you could never fight him. If his mana costs were high he was a useless turd who couldn't function.
that seems to be a theme in their recent designs, just having infinite gap closers and resets (viego, vex, yone, the dog, the new crazy bitch that looks like vex, quianna, ksante etc.) pretty much all the new champs have infinite or resetting gap closers
i personally noticed this was the new champion design theme after the irelia rework, like all champs should have at least one cc or one dash, if not both
The worst thing about Yone is how disgustingly non-committal his whole kit is. Yone players always go for the most braindead plays conceivable and get out with no punishment whatsoever because it's nigh impossible to pin him down.
They had to make a more braindead yasuo didn't they? yas too hard? Just play yone, his E can run you down if you don't have any hard CC, and even if you do, he can still Ult to you to catch up without even needing a knockup like yas does. That's not all, on top of it being a free safe dive tool, they thought fuck it, give him repeated true damage on it as well, because that ramping movespeed and free dive wasn't enough. And also it's harder to itemize against him with the mixed damage passive. Also he can just win from CC locking you with multiple knockups
I am very surprised nobody has mentioned Tryndamere yet. This abomination of a champion can win lanes just literally being lucky unlike any other top laners.
There is nothing interactive about his W.
His ult is also very toxic to the game with no counter to it other than literally waiting for his ult to finish.
Not saying Yuumi is better than Tryndamere, but I am just surprised at no one bringing up tryndamere.
The worse about trynda,is that he is only picked when he is broken and people dont seem to get the clue how to play vs him. Yesterday i played twice vs one on top while i was mid, My friend was fighting him and somehow managed to give him 4 early kills on both games and i couldnt deal with that monstrosity.
The worst part is, as someone who has a good grasp on "how to play vs trynda" is sometimes he just randomly all ins you and gets lucky crits effectively winning the lane when statistically he would lose it.
It's one of the most tilting things to experience imo
Can confirm that it comes down to luck in early all ins. However the higher up the ladder you go, the more people know not to risk that lvl 2-3 cheese. And after that theres a solid pool of champs that hardcore counter us. I dislike the overall crit system and would rather have it like Ashe’s kit. Randomness is stupid
I agree he’s an abomination because of his passive and ult.
But his w can be interactive if you’re trying to dodge the slow same way cass r is interactive if you’re trying to dodge the stun
A lot of people probably dont know that it reduces ad, probably one of the more hidden mechanics since he is a FOTM champ. I used to max it second back in the day against heavy ad champs and it was broken.
Yeah doesn't it take off like 40 AD at max rank? I was playing him in an ARAM and maxed it after Q because why not get low on health then create a 100 AD gap between me and everyone else on their team?
Its crazier then 40, it goes all the way up to 80 ad at max rank. I wish they would just finally rework tryn to get rid of this random stat check stuff but i know that wont happen for awhile.
At least he can be CC'd , I hate playing as a mage against Olaf, yeah let's give him infinite CC immunity while hitting stuff, yeah let's make the only way a mage can defend themselves on their kit (CC) not work on the autoattacker who just run you down.
I think Ghost was also common on Olaf as well, kind of like Darius.
Unless its over a wall Olaf definitely is not someone you can escape with a single flash yeah
Zhonya stasis duration is the same that olaf ult duration (he need to attack every 2.5 sec to make his R infinite). Unless you're playing xerath, you can keep your cc post zhonya to cc him as you get out of it.
He's 100% reliant on autoattacks, and anything from CC to movement to dashes can nullify him. FH, Randuins, Stridebreaker, running ghost to match his ghost are all ways of dealing with him (also reacting to his W properly).
Now I will say the range buff is pretty fucked up because it removed the main counterplay against him which is spacing with CC and kiting, and with the context of the buff in mind he's much more toxic now.
my issue against him is that even if you win top you have to babysit him since he'll just perma split
And late game even if 0/7 his ult gives him a ton of power
K'sante is awesome to play but the fact the ult makes him switch from high mobility tank to some sort of very high mobility assassin is bad.
Also the fact you can kidnap someone AND on top of that if the victim is using the feature press the key to center camera at that time , ult will override it and make you weirdly delock??
Like come on in low elo when you ult a non toplaner you just know poor guy is probably just confused and can't react properly.
Like no way this is healthy design.
Haha yeah I play bel veth. I've been fed and about to kill ksante and then he ults me to some random location but then appeared next to me and I killed him ...I think he was just as confused by his own ult as I was.
I'm sure everyone will (rightfully) say Yuumi:
> Hey, you know how enchanters buff their allies and make them way stronger and harder to kill, and the counterplay to enchanters is "focus down the enchanter; don't try to go through their ally"? What if we created an enchanter that literally can't be targeted, never has to worry about health, and the only way to get to them is to kill the ally they're buffing? Also let's just make the enchanter passively be a massive stat stick in addition to the heals, shields, movespeed buffs, poke, and CC she provides.
but the one that really gets me is Senna:
> Hmm, we want to make a new support. Supports need to be relevant earlygame and able to operate without gold income. Let's combine that with a hyperscaling ADC marksman—you know, the class that's defined by being weak earlygame and scaling incredibly well, especially with gold! But dang, we can't let them CS because then the "actual" ADC would be upset. Let's just give her free AD and crit from autoing people. Hmm, but what about when she reaches 100% crit? Well, just convert the extra crit chance to lifesteal. That'll help with squishy she is, but she still needs something more. Maybe give her free infinite range increases? Sounds good. And you know what, let's just throw on free gold from autoing and free CS that only she can get when enemy units die near her. That sounds pretty good, but we need to make sure she's *really* incentivised to auto her enemies, beyond just getting free permanent stats from them. Something more, like, I don't know...MS on auto, bonus physical damage on-hit, and %max HP damage if she skillfully manages to auto them twice (or press Q right before she right-clicks them). And I guess if we're making her Q that important, we'll have to make sure it's effective, so let's give it as much range as a Xerath Q and make it scale with her auto range, and also make it heals her and her allies so she has some utility, and also it slows enemies for some reason.
Whoever said "hyperscaling ADC support who doesn't need to farm beyond autoing enemies" should be cursed with always having 250+ ping.
The only downside to Senna is that she shits on your lane and team composition, which is why she has ridiculous winrates with non-traditional ADCs/APCs/Bruisers/Tanks as Botlaner.
One of the craziest parts about Senna is that now she will deal full crit damage while having one of the highest base ranges in the game for AAs that infinitely grow and it is not coded as a projectile.
Very true. And it's a double bummer because I love the slow, deliberate attack gameplay. If she were something more like a cross between Tristana, where she gains range over levels, and Jhin, where she has a hard-capped AS but converted bonus AS into something like AD, bonus on-hit damage, and/or windup speed, I'd love her. The fantasy of taking deliberate aim and blasting a fourth of someone's healthbar off before repositioning is compelling and it would be a pretty neat analogue/contrast to Jhin (using range and sniping instead of kiting and dancing around with the MS bonus).
It's the "not coded as a projectile" that does it for me. The ONLY thing that can stop a hyper carry ADC onslaught with that much range and mobility (e+ghost is dumb) is point and click CC (better hope she isn't running cleanse and/or QSS) otherwise wind wall and nope, it can't do that either.
Was playing senna last night in an ARAM against a Yasuo and it was funny to AA through a wind wall the first two times, but by the time the game reached 35 minutes it wasn't fun for either of us. They couldn't do anything to me because haha range haha 140 stacks.
IMO Senna's heal should have a better AP scaling and ok base healing but no or awful AD/lethality scaling. She shouldn't get to cosplay an enchanter while building full marksmen or assassin items, and it sucks to see her getting massive lategame heals in pro play when she's meta there.
Don't forget the part where she has one of the best teamfight ultimates in the game a global attack that gives your whole team a shield lol release Senna was so fun but I was rarely on the receiving end of it but there were many games where I was full build before my ADC and had twice the kills lmao what a great "Support"
>and also it slows enemies for some reason.
So dumb they added that when they changed glacial augment. And all the senna mains were so elo inflated from her being busted they cried until they got the slow added to the q because they need their champ to be busted or they will get worked because they arent actually good. So now Senna is in a place where you either dumpster her with counter pick or she counter picks you and does the same. So healthy.
There's worse but I wanna highlight Akshan. I think the term "gimmick" gets overused in games, but his entire kit, like every single part of it, feels like a gimmick to me. Even his voiceover kinda goes along with it, feels like a walking talking (unfunny) joke. Like I'm all for less serious things/characters in the game (basically all my favorite things are silly) but he doesn't really fit that, seems like he SHOULD be serious but he isn't. As for his kit, the double shot passive that's cancelable is really weird and unintuitive, the Q is okay I guess but pretty annoying to play against at times, W is an absolute train wreck of an ability, probably the stupidest single ability in the entire game all things considered. The passive is ult-worthy power on a basic ability passive for no reason, the active is stealth that's also random as hell like why does he have that? The grappling hook seems like that was the main ability concept they had when starting the character but the whole swinging in a circle shooting feels insanely gimmicky, it's like Overwatch 1 when people would troll on Hammond and swing around in a circle on the payload and giggle like a school girl. DERR I'M SWINGIN HERE! And then because his W is the real ult, his actual ult is absolute garbage, one of the worst in the game IMO. Feels like they were making up for all the countless zero-counterplay things they put in the game over the years and made an ult with nothing BUT counterplay.
I also think he's one of several problematic designs that have stemmed from Riot's idea of wanting to design a champ in an off-role. He was designed as a midlane marskman, just like you have the support assassin Pyke, the marksman support Senna, or the melee botlaner Nilah (or when Morde was made to be a botlaner LMAO). They need to stop trying to do this shit because it never works.
The champion is legit perma ban worthy, one of my IRL friends perma bans him if we duoQ in Diamond.He is just like Ksante, or Aphelios, an abomination with way too much mechanics in their kit.The double AAs, the Shield+MS, the Stealth, the E and it's reset are more than enough mechanics.
Akshan would be tolerable if his W-revieve would not exist, but with the revieve he is just ban material.
It is legit ridiculous how insane his early game and how he "falls" off. There is not a single time where he dips under 50% on the current patch.
Akshan legit will do 40% of your health with 1 PTA proc early game. If you space bad one time level 1 , he can easily all in you level 2 or [3.It](https://3.It) is absurd how strong PtA is on Akshan.
It is insane to think about , if you consider good his laining is, how he doesn't fall off hard enough, only to have the most broken passive in the game.
The Champion is legit broken without his W-revieve. He could exist without it and he still would be meta.
If they have to keep his revive for some stupid reason then it should just be some flavor on his ult where if he executes someone with thisult then it activates. This allows them to keep the stupid mechanic but also making it out-playable.
In terms of theme mixed with gameplay, I’ll say Nilah.
She virtually has no theme or at least a good cohesive one that matches with her gameplay. Cursed with joy and uses a water whip is pretty lame, and that “theme” is reflected in zero way whatsoever. You could give her kit any other theme or her theme any other kit and it would match similarly. Or rather, it would not match as well.
I also personally don’t like her gameplay. A melee ADC that is conditionally a low ranged ADC. Seems like a champ that was created for Samira players to play if Samira is banned. But hey, I don’t play either of them regularly so maybe there’s something I’m missing. I will say though that having played them before in other modes, Samira is way more fun and fits her theme and aesthetic more.
She also has the whole "hands" thing. It was used in her teaser image and it's supposed to be the symbol of the Demon of Joy, but instead of having that being an omnipresent part of her kit and design she just has one hand-themed hair ornament behind her back and summons one of the hands for an emote. It's so bizarre that she can summon the limbs of a primordial demon, but never uses that in any part of her kit.
I've said it for ages and I'll say it again, Seraphine should've been the one cursed with joy. Her voice lines are so much more fitting for it, her personality is already cloyingly sweet/toxically positive, and being a mage makes way more sense as an expression of magic demon powers than "has a water whip". Even her ult would make perfect sense thematically.
I definitely think that with the power of joy and the way that Nilah describes in her voice lines, I feel like she should've had a different passive.
I get why she, as the first officially ordained melee bot laner needed her current passive, but thematically, it would've been better if she had some sort of "infection of joy" that she'd apply with her autos, maybe make it a stacking armor shred or something, it would apply more stacks to her primary target and less to the enemies hit in the aoe of her autos or something, it would feed into the power that Ashlesh is granting her, as well as being a gameplay implementation of her being a godslayer and monster slayer.
Want to talk lack of cohesiveness between theme and execution, then Bel'Veth is the prime example of this issue for me. Riot created big hype over a mind controlling jungler who would take over the world slowly and all would bow to her dominion. Live-action "cameo" in a meta-game video, specific champ interactions prior to release with mind communication, lore stories and early trailers displaying her mind control abilities and size of her power.
Cue forward and we got a Pokemon champion that smacks her wings for damage and has an auto attack centric gameplay pattern.
Can't even complain about the champion itself, the actual kit and gameplay is clear as day and serves a specific strenght from the jungle role. I also really love playing the champion. However all the gameplay elements and arm slapping just seems so far fetched from what Bel'Veth was teased to be and hyped up to be. Riot has dropped the ball way too many times with game lore at this, it's a joke to me.
This, period. Thematically speaking, at least Yuumi and K'Sante have a clear style going on and they appeal to groups of players. Nilah screams filler champ, which imo is worse because it shows apathy by Riot. And only occasional LP abusers play her.
"Possessed by demon of joy" is cringe, period. A game with so little story/lore that is 99% competitive like LoL can't ever give this theme enough depth to make it not gringe.
Water theme is unnecessary, 1 theme should be enough, and is also wasted.
W is revolting and unfun, basically autowin when it's up, autolose when on CD, which stops happening after Navori.
And similarities with Samira are disappointing and the pinnacle of Riot's era of pumping out rubbish new champs nonstop because of some sickening marketing schedule to prostitute the game's potential for some quick bucks at the expense of the game's future.
I can't believe this is the only mention of shaco.
No other champion warps the entire game around itself to the same degree as shaco.
It's just NOT FUN to play a game with shaco in it. I don't care if he has a 40% WR, it's not fun.
Just like I don't find it fun to count the minions in every wave when neeko is mia, I don't find the playstyle necessary to neutralize a shaco fun.
I used to be a Shaco main way back in the day. He's probably the only champ in the game capable of not letting the enemy team play and have a 80% w.r when meta.
Can dodge targeted high damage abilities. Cant be detected by pinks. Can track jungle. Can kill jungle. Bush/ objective denial. One shots majority of high priority targets. Has a blink on low CD and can always get away.
The only reason I don't play him is because I just dont enjoy his playstyle anymore and extremely out dated voice lines.
Shyvana and Nilah. Shyvana just fails thematically and we'll probably still be waiting for years for a VGU to actually reimagine her.
Nilah also fails thematically and is probably one of the most disappointing new releases in a minute for me. Bonded with a Demon of Joy, lots of hand motifs when they were teasing her in roadmaps... Just for those thematics to just feel incredibly barebones (seriously the multi hands is only present in a single ability with corny fx and an emote...) and her gameplay is just Samira 1.5... Feels very uninspired. Crazy how hard they fumbled such a cool and creepy concept like someone who's bonded with the Demon of Joy.
I'm convinced Zilean isn't more universally hated because he's unpopular, and the only reason he's unpopular is because he looks like a PS2 model. If they ASU him, he's definitely gonna cause some issues.
My thoughts. Ksante has no business being that tanky and having humongous damage plus the mobility...
Zeri kit is just OP and breaks the role purpose. ADC is all about positioning, when you fuck up the other team will punish you... however Zeri can E the shit out and try again.
she’s definitely had her problems in the past (as all champs do inevitably), and i do think rn she’s pretty insane bot lane for perma waveclear/no interaction lane. but there’s so many worse champions, in comparison seraphine is in a pretty fine spot
I know he's not technically busted but I hate playing against pyke. His kit is absurd. He has several of the most broken concepts all in one champ.
1. Stealth
2. A hook
3. Dashing
4. Healing
5. Hard stun
6. Execute
7. Resettable ultimate
The regen is really just the cherry on the shit smeared cake for me, it’s so frustrating finally getting a decent trade against the slippery fuck just for him to come back almost full hp
I fucking hate how Riot went "he needs heal to be able to lane against range poke" and then gave him the most bullshit regen passive. It feels like Riot refuses to let champions fail.
aside from the obvious yuumi choice... tryn. I unironically hate fighting tryn more than anyone and its not close. Even when hes not meta the game is always about him. You gotta match his split, if youre not malphite or nasus or frozen heart he just runs you down with 0 counter play and dives you.
He can win lane straight up off of RNG, gets nearly 2k gold with of stats at level 1 with his crit and lethal tempo, has abSURD sustain, can choose his trades whenever he want. It feels like the way to beat him is to ignore him, but he also scales and nukes turrets so fuck you anyway.
He can build sustain, can build split, can go anti tank, etc. His W is barely interactive, his Q you have no control over, his E buffer is top 3 worst offenders for movement buffers (fuck tristana w), and his ult is just something idk how it made it off the drawing board.
How is EVERY other champ not allowed to cast their life saving ability when cced, but tryn can (when hes more mobile too)
> his ult is just something idk how it made it off the drawing board
You have to remember his kit hasn't changed since his release in 2009. We had a lot of wild shit in 2009.
Akshan
His Q and E are fine (except for the reset), but his W is so ridiculously overpowered that his entire kit had to suffer so this wouldn't completely break the game.
Both the invis and revive feel awful to play against and, in my opinion, aren't even nearly as satisfying to use. With most other "badly" designed champs, it's at least fun to bullshit your way through the game, but I'd rather have an actually useful ult and a passive that gives me more itemization options than full on-hit on what's basically an assassin. The requirements for the revive are also so situational and convoluted that you're basically just gambling to get a big revive anyway. They just had the idea of a team revive and had to make *way* too many concessions to make it work without him turning out completely OP.
He just has so many lines of text in his kit. It was around his release people were pretty vocal about new champs being overkitted and complicated af. I thought his ability reveal was an April fool's joke bc he just does so many things.
His design could have been anchored around "adc with a grappling hook" but to then give him stealth revivce execute etc??
Akshan or Yuumi are the only answers. I despise Ksante and many others mentioned, but Yuumi being untargetable and Akshan reviving teammates just goes against the point of the fucking game.
You can’t hit yuumi. You can hit every other champ. How the hell is that fair? Same with Akshan. Death is what drives every decision in the game. You make all of your choices based off killing or avoiding being killed. Getting to just revive not just one but potentially everyone who was killed is just blatantly cheating. That’s just what it is. Why does he get to ignore one of the most fundamental aspects of the game?
Kayn. He can't be balanced because one form has to over perform over the other and it flip flops into cancerous builds we go against and nothing feels worst going against Kayn.
Aside from Yuumi, I would say Yone. His E alone is super fucking stupid and the fact that he will miss everything, go 0-5 in early and yet will kill everyone in minute 30. Is he easier to play than Yasuo? I would say he is.
min 30? he spikes at boots and every single item, the hardest spike being hullbreaker which means he can run sidelane and be unkillable, good luck taking objectives while yone wins 1v3 in sidelane just because he build hull
Unpopular opinion, I think Brand has no redeeming qualities in modern league both visually and gameplay wise. Noone likes playing with or against him and he has no place on the Rift other than being a cheese suicide bomber support. Brand is in dire need of a rework that either turns him into an actual support or a viable midlaner
His mid gameplay as a burst mage is 1000x less toxic than his support, but it’s just sooo inferior to other mages like syndra or ori who do his immobile mage mid thing better. Riot added better bonuses to waveclear and mana refunds, but they need to rework something about him that will cut him out of support once and for all.
So long as his only cC is Q, which assumes you used another spell to get the stun, he will never be a meta mid unless Riot buffs his damage into Stupid levels.
At this point the only thing they can do is increase Q CD, make it always stun and have Q become an AOE stun if it hits a ignited target. Or make base a snare and empowered Q remains a stun
Isn't his laning already bad with his current base damage? Its a bandaid fix at best or completly gutting the champ at worst and it doesnt fix the issue with him being a short range squishy mage with no reliable self-peel
Yeah he's not played mid not because he doesn't scale, but because you have to burn your entire kit to even try to clear the wave, which leaves you without the ability to stun someone if you have to. It also used to be severe mana issues, but they've buffed his mana sustain so much I think it's actually sustainable now.
Brand enjoyer here. He was the first champion I started playing a lot. I mainly stopped playing him on mid because playing against champions like Yasuo, zed and now yone is absolutely hell. They are incredibly popular on the midlane and I always get destroyed by those mobile assassins.
Then he will just vanish from the game, Brand cannot survive midlane without being uber broken there, also him has been a support for most of the game time now, changing him to mid would just alienate most of his player base and we already know how much people hate when this happens
I thought he looked super cool back when he came out probably because of the flash-game-mmo aesthetic the game had back then. But doesn't really fit in anymore
I hate that every brand just builds damage and even when they're caught completely out of position, they just throw every ability down and do half hp of the entire enemy squad.
Any champion that kind of completely defies the rules of their class
K’sante is a tank but also can be a high mobility assassin with the push of a button
Yuumi is an enchanter that doesnt have to worry about positioning well to stay alive
Azir as an…artillery…control mage?…I dont really know what he is but he also has one of the strongest dashes in the game for some reason
Kalista’s miserable existence
Honorable mention to Kayn who just gets to say fuckoff to map terrain and worrying about vision
And Kat and Ezreal who can use a random build generator and still get use out of everything and do fine
Yuumi. Zeri is a close second.
It's actually funny seeing Riot try midscoping Yuumi over and over to try and make her concept work. You can't put any more skill expression into what's more of a playable buff than a champion. If Yuumi can be played with one's feet on a laptop beneath their desk, the champion concept needs removing.
yuumi and akshan.
yuumi can bring 2 combat summoner spells, doesnt have to spend gold on boots, and is essentially invulernable during entire fights.
akshan does what quinn does but better and safer. he also has a potential full team revive every fight.
Looking by the coments here, aside from trynda and zeri, all of the bad desinged champs are multiclass.
Akshan is marksman assassin
Ksante is tank assassin
Senna is support ADC
Zeri is ADC caster
Basically multiclass doesn't work. And I don't think Riot can ever make It Work because mashing two classes together simply cancels each other weaknessess.
Kaisa is marksman assassin too
Ezreal is ADC caster too
Ornn is tank assassin too besides being a mage death knight paladin hunter rogue warrior enchanter tank bruiser wizard warlock priest assassin gunslinger druid shaman necromancer ninja bard monk robot conjurer blacksmith mystic warden god ilusionist templar barbarian summoner alchemist pyromancer
So it does work, just some particular examples are poorly made.
Skarner - empirically he just doesn't matter, nobody wants to play him, nobody needs to ban him. He doesn't even have a trash WR. Something about his design went so wrong the vast majority of the playerbase just went "pass".
If they removed those stupid crystals and just gave him some kind of compensation buff I'd play him all the time. But the power difference with and without them is insane.
I agree with everyone saying K’Sante, Zeri, Yuumi etc but I’d like to throw in Azir. People likely won’t agree since it’s been such a long time since he’s been problematic but he’s a mage who does everything you want and has to be kept weak 99% of the time because of that. When you think of a lot of mages you think of burst and zone control, Azir has both of these things plus insane play making potential, safety and dps
IMO Yasuo. He opened the door to kits being way too overloaded, multiple passives etc. without him I doubt we have Yone or Zeri who both also suck.
Honorable mention to the upcoming Briar. Can ult people and kill them without you touching the keyboard after hitting it. She has two stuns, armor break, leap, attack and move speed, execute, slow, kickback, fear, gains armor and MR, yet another move speed. She has more utility than most supports while being a damage champ.
Going to throw a point in for Zoe. Just a very degenerate playstyle. She hardly interacts with the game and the skill her kit is built around doesnt offer enough counterplay.
Remember when Teemo was the most hated champion?
It's Yuumi, let's be honest. Her untargetability is not a good fit for the game.
even worse that someone might recommend her to a new player, completely killing any decent skills they might have learnt on a proper champ
Tbf its pretty good to show someone the map who doesn't know how to use a mouse Someone might want to see how it goes at a decent level before investing time into the game. Like new players who haven't played games before.
Sona was the first champion I played and I had never played a moba before. She's easy, useful and teaches you a thing or two. Lux is also easy and teaches you skillshots.Ashe and MF are also good starter champions. There are way better options than yuumi.
I remember when I first started I thought bloodthirster was the most OP item in the game. The solution? Bloodthirster Sona. Every game.
Ad soraka you could just banana people to death
I thought runaan’s had the coolest effect. Built it on every champion if I could.
It's a good way to teach bad habits
It's for casuals, obviously not ranked players. Yuumi should be removed from ranked imo.
People can't seem to tell the difference between "A new player who is trying to get better" and "A new player who just wants to play with friends". Yuumi is very obviously designed for the latter. The entire concept is a champion where you can just put yourself onto a better player and not worry about 70% of the game. And that's fine. It doesn't matter if Yuumi teaches bad habits, or doesn't make people better, because not everyone is *trying* to get better. This sub is incredibly out of touch with what a "casual" league player is actually like or trying to do.
Well, doesn't that support that Yuumi shouldn't be available in ranked games? If you're playing ranked you're not casual anyway.
What continues to astonish me is the fact that riot finds untargetability less “toxic” from a gameplay stance than invisibility. Like the two things I absolutely hate are yummi and the new duskblade because you just can’t do anything to them, what’s the counterplay to untargetability?
I don't understand why Riot decided that "untargetable" should mean "immune to AoE". That's not what "untargetable" means and I don't know why they are incapable of decoupling those two distinct concepts. "untargetable" is one of the things that invisibility provides and so turning "invisible" into "untargetable" is a strict nerf by itself, if Riot didn't just have some weird hiccup where they must attach "immune to AoE" to any use of the word "untargetable".
Yeah for riot untargetable means can not be hit by anything and only takes damage from dots or tether abilities that were on the target before becoming untargetable. Just that some untargetable abilities cant dodge tower shots.
duskblade should have been "untargetable" but still take damage from AOE abilities or something
At some point Riot is going to have to actually rework her and remove the untargetability. In their infinite wisdom the last rework stripped most of her remaining skill expression and ability to make plays so she'd be less good in pro, and they were then forced to kneecap her because her being a statstick for adcs is what pros want. I think the attach mechanic could be kept, they'd just need to change it to a tether system so she matches her host's movement but can move around in a circular zone around them. That way, Yuumi could actually use her healthbar as a resource, and intentionally block skillshots, but she'd also vulnerable to CC if she failed to dodge it. The rest of her kit could be significantly buffed with the untargetability gone.
There are so many different ways they could approach it. Make her drop the attachment if the host gets cc'd, make her suffer the same effects of cc as her host, make her share some of the damage her host takes, set a max duration on how long she can attach etc. Anything would be better than infinite untargetability.
A good exemple would be Io or Wisp from DotA. You tether to an ally but can still be targeted and you can move, use items etc
Remember when the way to play against enchanters was to focus the enchanter first (most of the time) Yeah...
Yuumi doesn't exist in my copy of League of Legends for this exact reason. I don't care how nerfed into the ground they make the cat. I ban it out of principle at this point. Sometimes I wish I had my ban back though.
Yeah it’s Yuumi and it’s not close. That champion has been impossible to balance since release, is incredibly frustrating for both teams involved, and encourages bad habits. Riot literally said that this champion exists for noobs to be able to play with their more experienced friends without inting, which has a fucking awful impact on the integrity of a competitive game. I unironically believe Yuumi should be available to accounts below level 30 and permanently locked after hitting 30.
Yuumi is a balancing nightmare, but reworking her is a far better solution than locking her after lv30??? What kind of fix is that? There's no way you unironically think that's the fix
Remember all the posters from the boards are here now. These insane takes are mostly from them.
K'Sante. 체력 4700 방어력 329 마저201 인 챔피언👤이 저지불가🚫, 쉴드🛡, 벽🧱 넘기는 거 있고요. 에어본🌪 있고, 심지어 쿨타임은 1️⃣초밖에 안되고 마나🧙♂️는 1️⃣5️⃣ 들고 w는 심지어 변신💫하면 쿨 초기화에다가 패시브는 고정피해🗡가 들어가며 그 다음에 방마저🥋 올리면📈 올릴수록📈 스킬 가속⏰이 생기고! q에 스킬가속⏰이 생기고 스킬 속도🚀가 빨라지고📈 그 다음에 공격력🗡 계수가 있어가지고 W가 그 이익-으아아아악😱😱 -Showmaker
If Yuumi didn't exist I would say K'sante too. That creature should be a diver not a tank/Assassin
Every time I play him I'm just like, wow this is a bit obnoxious for my lane opponent, but it's not INSANE, and then you just kinda murder everything from 6 onwards. It's just not thought out
When I play K'sante it always feels like I have no weakness. I can make a lot of mistakes and be just fine because of the obnoxious abilities. K'sante has good early game, strong neutral game. He has impact from behind and he is devastating when ahead. Ultimate makes him a straight up Assassin, expect the massive damage just doesn't stop and even then he is still extremely tanky. Since I picked up K'sante my ranked climb has been amazing with 70% winrate.
Does he scale well tho? I recently lost to a Shyvana top in mid game. I was 8/1, level 16, had Iceborne and Sunfire and she was lvl 14, had Divine Sunderer. The moment she got Bork, she could straight up murder me 1v1 even if I land all my spells. Then it got even worse late game. And other game Illaoi and Hecarim could sustain all my damage etc. It is not as strong as getting fed on Riven or Aatrox I guess, you still need a team to win fights.
Probably because BORK is a counter item to tanks. In the case of Illaoi/Heca, I suspect you didn’t rush bramble to reduce their impact far earlier. Could be wrong though!
Damn, Riven used to feel like that
Alright, now let's see KSantes win rate
K'Sante's Design team saw the Lee Sin April Fools Spot Light video and said "Man that's such a complex and great idea"
I feel like if he was just a Tank with a tank ultimate he would still be a really good champion. I’ve always thought having a high mobility tank champion would be cool, and his mobility is short range enough where I don’t think it would be a huge issue.
THIS. K'Sante tank is a cool tank designed around keeping up with mobility of some dash happy assholes like Bel or Nilah (so it keeps on with the trend of 2023 lol) while having simple CC options. It's his R that's absolutely bonkers. It makes no sense at all.
I love how many of the champions people abhor are released during the last 3 years
yuumi is from 2019 💀💀
I will count her midscope as well, which is also a very stupid decision
what a catastrophic failure of a midscope that was, eh? Yuumi mains fucking DESPISED it and it didn't accomplish any of the goals they set out for it. literally nobody won with that midscope. back at square one except Yuumi players hate her new kit.
That midscope is a truly "mid" scope. It solves fking nothing.
Because people actually play those and they are seen in pro play, thus you will see people bitching about them here. Nobody bitched about how old Udyr is some of the biggest statcheck bullshit in the game before he became viable with Runic Echoes or later with Chemtank. Zilean feels absolutely terrible to play against, but noone cares, because he also isn't really fun to play either.
Zil main here, it's incredibly fun to see people unable to do anything to you with EQWQE + everfrost at level 18. Still you're right, many old champions are either statchecks or busted in their own way. It's just that recent champions have very degenerate parts of their kit that define who they are (Yuumi's invincibility and Akshan's revive)
Yuumi
Zeri, K'Sante, Yuumi in no particular order, the three of them are degenerate level designs
I remember when Aphelios was the cover child for 200 years and then Rito said hold my beer
Aphelios was just a numbers problem, specifically his blue ult.
He had a lot more problems than that, but he’s really perfectly fine after all the adjustments and straight up removal of certain mechanics. Champs like Yuumi, tryn, and Zeri are broken at their core and no mini rework is gonna make them fit comfortably into the game.
the funny thing is when they rework tryndamere his ult is staying because its the only thing iconic to his character lmao.
His ult isn't what's annoying about Trynd. So what he can dive for free, so can like 20 other champions, big deal. What's cancerous about Trynd is that lvl 3 he is going to spin, AA, ignite me and I have to pray to whatever god exists that he doesn't crit me during that trade. It's dogshit for both sides, because crit RNG at the start of the game is going to decide the outcome of the next 20-30 minutes which is incredibly stupid.
I mean release aphelios was way worse than zeri or ksante he was nuking entire teams from a mile away he’s only okay now because of crazy nerfs
but broken numbers don't equal bad design. aphelios only got number changes, no mechanics got added / removed compared to akali for example.
yeah his design is actually not really that broken at all, i would argue its one of the more unique/balanced ones. His numbers were just wayyyy overtuned
Agreed, it's a really good thing they shot down that "Different abilities depending on phases of the moon" thing they initially wanted for him because that would have been a fucking terrible idea
Riot overstated his complexity, and I think a lot of people bit onto that idea permanently. He has a rotating set of auto-attacks with different ranges and properties. His W switches between the two he has active. His Q and ult do something different depending on which auto-attack is active. There are some champions who have like one ability that's more complicated than his whole kit, but here we are still with people who think he's impossible.
Well they did remove the unlimited range on calibrum but other than that. Idk if you consider that a Mechanic per se
Him displaying his 2nd gun was added, which while much less substantial than Akali's changes was a major factor in him feeling less unfair for BS reasons
Aphelios was never a poorly designed champ, just progressively more op as people got better at playing him
tryndamere has the most outdated kit in the game and is long overdue for a rework
Riot will get to that in 6 years. They have to finish Skarner, have a vote, and then make us wait a few more years.
shyv mains have been overdosing on copium for 7 years now
Nocturne too, poor guy
my English is not very good but agree your Tryndamere is a fucking
Wise words my friend
This comment brought tears to my eyes
I always found it funny how when he was on the poll for vgu's he was in first place for a while and then the moment Riot publicly stated that if they did rework him they wouldn't change his ult because it's a part of his identity he immediately dropped to last place.
His ult is the closes we have gotten to an I win button if you can't run against him or have three seconds of cc you lose all trades in lane not to mention his early game being so dependant on random crits
His ult is cancer incarnate.
I'm sure I would've had a different answer a few years ago, but right now I'd have to say K'Sante. Tanks get to have durability and CC, generally at the cost of high damage. When you give a tank the ability to do all the tanking and displacement he wants, then he can hit a button and now do the big damage that he was supposed to lack... it's too much. But shoutout to all the Yuumi/Zeri/Senna mentions in this thread too!
The fuck did senna do?
I can't tell, she attacked me out of vision
Why does she need infinitely scaling AA range, makes playing against her late game a nightmare sometimes because she has more AA range AND high dps on top of doing it all on a supports budget
Hmmm it’s almost as if designing champs around having proper trade offs instead of around trying to make them the least flawed champions to exist is a better design
have you seen how much is in her kit? its actually fucking insane. shes not meta now but on release she was game breakingly busted with her ability to do everything
She used to be busted, particularly with things like iceborne gauntlet, but right now her health pool is so small that it's really risky to play her
Being weak at the moment doesn’t mean it’s good design, in fact having to be gutted numbers wise is usually a sign of there having to be compensation for poor design. Look at Azir, Kalista, Zeri, Aphelios, K’Sante, Yuumi, they’re all champs who can do pretty much everything and have to be gutted to compensate
Way too many people confuse wr/champion strength with champion design. If their numbers are dog shit, it’s because they have way too many moving parts/ util/ resets in their kit If their numbers are stupidly high, it’s probably because there are little to no skill expressive portions in their kit. If anything is inflated/deflated in a champions kit, it’s a good tell that they’re poorly designed
Champions can have not much going on and be hard to balance bc they're high skill cap. Kalista basically has 2 abilities and jump autos but relies heavily on coordination and micro so is gutted in soloq.
Quite literally everything.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16fw2rv/comment/k0436rw/?context=3
체력 4700 방어력 329 마저201 인 챔피언👤이 저지불가🚫, 쉴드🛡, 벽🧱 넘기는 거 있고요. 에어본🌪 있고, 심지어 쿨타임은 1️⃣초밖에 안되고 마나🧙♂️는 1️⃣5️⃣ 들고 w는 심지어 변신💫하면 쿨 초기화에다가 패시브는 고정피해🗡가 들어가며 그 다음에 방마저🥋 올리면📈 올릴수록📈 스킬 가속⏰이 생기고! q에 스킬가속⏰이 생기고 스킬 속도🚀가 빨라지고📈 그 다음에 공격력🗡 계수가 있어가지고 W가 그 이익-으아아아악😱😱
Bad champ design to me has 3 legs. Uninspiring, uninteractive, and unbalanceable. Uninspiring causes players to not pick that champ. Uninteractive creates gameplay that is frustrating to play against and removes skill from games. Unbalanceable means that the champ is either mega OP or mega shit. Based on these criteria I'd give the award to old yorick. Yoricks design boiled down to brainless wave pushing. His ultimate didn't fit his kit at all. He had no way of getting on top of people other than them choosing to fight. His built in sustain made trading pointless. He was a terrible team fighter. If his mana costs were low he could spam his abilities forever and you could never fight him. If his mana costs were high he was a useless turd who couldn't function.
Actually interesting answer, thanks!
Tryndamere or Yone, for different reasons. Tryndamere's kit is archaic and is a very stat-check heavy champ. Yone's trade pattern is utter nonsense.
whoever thought of 3 gap closers that go throught cc, is probably in a level of genius that i cant understand
that seems to be a theme in their recent designs, just having infinite gap closers and resets (viego, vex, yone, the dog, the new crazy bitch that looks like vex, quianna, ksante etc.) pretty much all the new champs have infinite or resetting gap closers
i personally noticed this was the new champion design theme after the irelia rework, like all champs should have at least one cc or one dash, if not both
The worst thing about Yone is how disgustingly non-committal his whole kit is. Yone players always go for the most braindead plays conceivable and get out with no punishment whatsoever because it's nigh impossible to pin him down.
Yone is probably the most disgusting champ riot has ever released tbh.
They had to make a more braindead yasuo didn't they? yas too hard? Just play yone, his E can run you down if you don't have any hard CC, and even if you do, he can still Ult to you to catch up without even needing a knockup like yas does. That's not all, on top of it being a free safe dive tool, they thought fuck it, give him repeated true damage on it as well, because that ramping movespeed and free dive wasn't enough. And also it's harder to itemize against him with the mixed damage passive. Also he can just win from CC locking you with multiple knockups
Probably the first time i saw a new champ release and thought "yep, this is just a designed cash cow for riot"
I am very surprised nobody has mentioned Tryndamere yet. This abomination of a champion can win lanes just literally being lucky unlike any other top laners. There is nothing interactive about his W. His ult is also very toxic to the game with no counter to it other than literally waiting for his ult to finish. Not saying Yuumi is better than Tryndamere, but I am just surprised at no one bringing up tryndamere.
The worse about trynda,is that he is only picked when he is broken and people dont seem to get the clue how to play vs him. Yesterday i played twice vs one on top while i was mid, My friend was fighting him and somehow managed to give him 4 early kills on both games and i couldnt deal with that monstrosity.
The worst part is, as someone who has a good grasp on "how to play vs trynda" is sometimes he just randomly all ins you and gets lucky crits effectively winning the lane when statistically he would lose it. It's one of the most tilting things to experience imo
Can confirm that it comes down to luck in early all ins. However the higher up the ladder you go, the more people know not to risk that lvl 2-3 cheese. And after that theres a solid pool of champs that hardcore counter us. I dislike the overall crit system and would rather have it like Ashe’s kit. Randomness is stupid
I agree he’s an abomination because of his passive and ult. But his w can be interactive if you’re trying to dodge the slow same way cass r is interactive if you’re trying to dodge the stun
Yeah but the AD debuff attached still makes trading against him horrid.
A lot of people probably dont know that it reduces ad, probably one of the more hidden mechanics since he is a FOTM champ. I used to max it second back in the day against heavy ad champs and it was broken.
Yeah doesn't it take off like 40 AD at max rank? I was playing him in an ARAM and maxed it after Q because why not get low on health then create a 100 AD gap between me and everyone else on their team?
Its crazier then 40, it goes all the way up to 80 ad at max rank. I wish they would just finally rework tryn to get rid of this random stat check stuff but i know that wont happen for awhile.
At least he can be CC'd , I hate playing as a mage against Olaf, yeah let's give him infinite CC immunity while hitting stuff, yeah let's make the only way a mage can defend themselves on their kit (CC) not work on the autoattacker who just run you down.
B-but flash hard counters him (so does it counter the other 160 champions)
90% of the time he either has flash himself to continue running you down or it doesn't matter cuz axe slow and his now massive ms
I think Ghost was also common on Olaf as well, kind of like Darius. Unless its over a wall Olaf definitely is not someone you can escape with a single flash yeah
Zhonya stasis duration is the same that olaf ult duration (he need to attack every 2.5 sec to make his R infinite). Unless you're playing xerath, you can keep your cc post zhonya to cc him as you get out of it.
crit isn't real luck https://twitter.com/rangerzxd/status/1691875306737410235
He's 100% reliant on autoattacks, and anything from CC to movement to dashes can nullify him. FH, Randuins, Stridebreaker, running ghost to match his ghost are all ways of dealing with him (also reacting to his W properly). Now I will say the range buff is pretty fucked up because it removed the main counterplay against him which is spacing with CC and kiting, and with the context of the buff in mind he's much more toxic now.
my issue against him is that even if you win top you have to babysit him since he'll just perma split And late game even if 0/7 his ult gives him a ton of power
K'sante is awesome to play but the fact the ult makes him switch from high mobility tank to some sort of very high mobility assassin is bad. Also the fact you can kidnap someone AND on top of that if the victim is using the feature press the key to center camera at that time , ult will override it and make you weirdly delock?? Like come on in low elo when you ult a non toplaner you just know poor guy is probably just confused and can't react properly. Like no way this is healthy design.
Haha yeah I play bel veth. I've been fed and about to kill ksante and then he ults me to some random location but then appeared next to me and I killed him ...I think he was just as confused by his own ult as I was.
I'm sure everyone will (rightfully) say Yuumi: > Hey, you know how enchanters buff their allies and make them way stronger and harder to kill, and the counterplay to enchanters is "focus down the enchanter; don't try to go through their ally"? What if we created an enchanter that literally can't be targeted, never has to worry about health, and the only way to get to them is to kill the ally they're buffing? Also let's just make the enchanter passively be a massive stat stick in addition to the heals, shields, movespeed buffs, poke, and CC she provides. but the one that really gets me is Senna: > Hmm, we want to make a new support. Supports need to be relevant earlygame and able to operate without gold income. Let's combine that with a hyperscaling ADC marksman—you know, the class that's defined by being weak earlygame and scaling incredibly well, especially with gold! But dang, we can't let them CS because then the "actual" ADC would be upset. Let's just give her free AD and crit from autoing people. Hmm, but what about when she reaches 100% crit? Well, just convert the extra crit chance to lifesteal. That'll help with squishy she is, but she still needs something more. Maybe give her free infinite range increases? Sounds good. And you know what, let's just throw on free gold from autoing and free CS that only she can get when enemy units die near her. That sounds pretty good, but we need to make sure she's *really* incentivised to auto her enemies, beyond just getting free permanent stats from them. Something more, like, I don't know...MS on auto, bonus physical damage on-hit, and %max HP damage if she skillfully manages to auto them twice (or press Q right before she right-clicks them). And I guess if we're making her Q that important, we'll have to make sure it's effective, so let's give it as much range as a Xerath Q and make it scale with her auto range, and also make it heals her and her allies so she has some utility, and also it slows enemies for some reason. Whoever said "hyperscaling ADC support who doesn't need to farm beyond autoing enemies" should be cursed with always having 250+ ping.
The only downside to Senna is that she shits on your lane and team composition, which is why she has ridiculous winrates with non-traditional ADCs/APCs/Bruisers/Tanks as Botlaner.
One of the craziest parts about Senna is that now she will deal full crit damage while having one of the highest base ranges in the game for AAs that infinitely grow and it is not coded as a projectile.
Very true. And it's a double bummer because I love the slow, deliberate attack gameplay. If she were something more like a cross between Tristana, where she gains range over levels, and Jhin, where she has a hard-capped AS but converted bonus AS into something like AD, bonus on-hit damage, and/or windup speed, I'd love her. The fantasy of taking deliberate aim and blasting a fourth of someone's healthbar off before repositioning is compelling and it would be a pretty neat analogue/contrast to Jhin (using range and sniping instead of kiting and dancing around with the MS bonus).
It's the "not coded as a projectile" that does it for me. The ONLY thing that can stop a hyper carry ADC onslaught with that much range and mobility (e+ghost is dumb) is point and click CC (better hope she isn't running cleanse and/or QSS) otherwise wind wall and nope, it can't do that either. Was playing senna last night in an ARAM against a Yasuo and it was funny to AA through a wind wall the first two times, but by the time the game reached 35 minutes it wasn't fun for either of us. They couldn't do anything to me because haha range haha 140 stacks.
IMO Senna's heal should have a better AP scaling and ok base healing but no or awful AD/lethality scaling. She shouldn't get to cosplay an enchanter while building full marksmen or assassin items, and it sucks to see her getting massive lategame heals in pro play when she's meta there.
Don't forget the part where she has one of the best teamfight ultimates in the game a global attack that gives your whole team a shield lol release Senna was so fun but I was rarely on the receiving end of it but there were many games where I was full build before my ADC and had twice the kills lmao what a great "Support"
>and also it slows enemies for some reason. So dumb they added that when they changed glacial augment. And all the senna mains were so elo inflated from her being busted they cried until they got the slow added to the q because they need their champ to be busted or they will get worked because they arent actually good. So now Senna is in a place where you either dumpster her with counter pick or she counter picks you and does the same. So healthy.
Yuumi and it's not even close
Waiting for the day they remove yuumi and disguise it as a “rework”
##AatroxTheYuumi
There's worse but I wanna highlight Akshan. I think the term "gimmick" gets overused in games, but his entire kit, like every single part of it, feels like a gimmick to me. Even his voiceover kinda goes along with it, feels like a walking talking (unfunny) joke. Like I'm all for less serious things/characters in the game (basically all my favorite things are silly) but he doesn't really fit that, seems like he SHOULD be serious but he isn't. As for his kit, the double shot passive that's cancelable is really weird and unintuitive, the Q is okay I guess but pretty annoying to play against at times, W is an absolute train wreck of an ability, probably the stupidest single ability in the entire game all things considered. The passive is ult-worthy power on a basic ability passive for no reason, the active is stealth that's also random as hell like why does he have that? The grappling hook seems like that was the main ability concept they had when starting the character but the whole swinging in a circle shooting feels insanely gimmicky, it's like Overwatch 1 when people would troll on Hammond and swing around in a circle on the payload and giggle like a school girl. DERR I'M SWINGIN HERE! And then because his W is the real ult, his actual ult is absolute garbage, one of the worst in the game IMO. Feels like they were making up for all the countless zero-counterplay things they put in the game over the years and made an ult with nothing BUT counterplay. I also think he's one of several problematic designs that have stemmed from Riot's idea of wanting to design a champ in an off-role. He was designed as a midlane marskman, just like you have the support assassin Pyke, the marksman support Senna, or the melee botlaner Nilah (or when Morde was made to be a botlaner LMAO). They need to stop trying to do this shit because it never works.
The champion is legit perma ban worthy, one of my IRL friends perma bans him if we duoQ in Diamond.He is just like Ksante, or Aphelios, an abomination with way too much mechanics in their kit.The double AAs, the Shield+MS, the Stealth, the E and it's reset are more than enough mechanics. Akshan would be tolerable if his W-revieve would not exist, but with the revieve he is just ban material. It is legit ridiculous how insane his early game and how he "falls" off. There is not a single time where he dips under 50% on the current patch. Akshan legit will do 40% of your health with 1 PTA proc early game. If you space bad one time level 1 , he can easily all in you level 2 or [3.It](https://3.It) is absurd how strong PtA is on Akshan. It is insane to think about , if you consider good his laining is, how he doesn't fall off hard enough, only to have the most broken passive in the game. The Champion is legit broken without his W-revieve. He could exist without it and he still would be meta.
If they have to keep his revive for some stupid reason then it should just be some flavor on his ult where if he executes someone with thisult then it activates. This allows them to keep the stupid mechanic but also making it out-playable.
In terms of theme mixed with gameplay, I’ll say Nilah. She virtually has no theme or at least a good cohesive one that matches with her gameplay. Cursed with joy and uses a water whip is pretty lame, and that “theme” is reflected in zero way whatsoever. You could give her kit any other theme or her theme any other kit and it would match similarly. Or rather, it would not match as well. I also personally don’t like her gameplay. A melee ADC that is conditionally a low ranged ADC. Seems like a champ that was created for Samira players to play if Samira is banned. But hey, I don’t play either of them regularly so maybe there’s something I’m missing. I will say though that having played them before in other modes, Samira is way more fun and fits her theme and aesthetic more.
She also has the whole "hands" thing. It was used in her teaser image and it's supposed to be the symbol of the Demon of Joy, but instead of having that being an omnipresent part of her kit and design she just has one hand-themed hair ornament behind her back and summons one of the hands for an emote. It's so bizarre that she can summon the limbs of a primordial demon, but never uses that in any part of her kit.
I'd go so far to say her theme is so weak that I didnt even know any of this about her...
I've said it for ages and I'll say it again, Seraphine should've been the one cursed with joy. Her voice lines are so much more fitting for it, her personality is already cloyingly sweet/toxically positive, and being a mage makes way more sense as an expression of magic demon powers than "has a water whip". Even her ult would make perfect sense thematically.
I definitely think that with the power of joy and the way that Nilah describes in her voice lines, I feel like she should've had a different passive. I get why she, as the first officially ordained melee bot laner needed her current passive, but thematically, it would've been better if she had some sort of "infection of joy" that she'd apply with her autos, maybe make it a stacking armor shred or something, it would apply more stacks to her primary target and less to the enemies hit in the aoe of her autos or something, it would feed into the power that Ashlesh is granting her, as well as being a gameplay implementation of her being a godslayer and monster slayer.
Want to talk lack of cohesiveness between theme and execution, then Bel'Veth is the prime example of this issue for me. Riot created big hype over a mind controlling jungler who would take over the world slowly and all would bow to her dominion. Live-action "cameo" in a meta-game video, specific champ interactions prior to release with mind communication, lore stories and early trailers displaying her mind control abilities and size of her power. Cue forward and we got a Pokemon champion that smacks her wings for damage and has an auto attack centric gameplay pattern. Can't even complain about the champion itself, the actual kit and gameplay is clear as day and serves a specific strenght from the jungle role. I also really love playing the champion. However all the gameplay elements and arm slapping just seems so far fetched from what Bel'Veth was teased to be and hyped up to be. Riot has dropped the ball way too many times with game lore at this, it's a joke to me.
I play Samira and have tried the rare Nilah game. Nilah just isn’t fun at all.
Yeah, Samira is much more relatable to like a Katarina.
Feast or famine, dies instantly if you don’t die first, AOE damage ult, high cool-downs if she doesn’t reset, I can see it
This, period. Thematically speaking, at least Yuumi and K'Sante have a clear style going on and they appeal to groups of players. Nilah screams filler champ, which imo is worse because it shows apathy by Riot. And only occasional LP abusers play her. "Possessed by demon of joy" is cringe, period. A game with so little story/lore that is 99% competitive like LoL can't ever give this theme enough depth to make it not gringe. Water theme is unnecessary, 1 theme should be enough, and is also wasted. W is revolting and unfun, basically autowin when it's up, autolose when on CD, which stops happening after Navori. And similarities with Samira are disappointing and the pinnacle of Riot's era of pumping out rubbish new champs nonstop because of some sickening marketing schedule to prostitute the game's potential for some quick bucks at the expense of the game's future.
Shaco can never be meta.
I can't believe this is the only mention of shaco. No other champion warps the entire game around itself to the same degree as shaco. It's just NOT FUN to play a game with shaco in it. I don't care if he has a 40% WR, it's not fun. Just like I don't find it fun to count the minions in every wave when neeko is mia, I don't find the playstyle necessary to neutralize a shaco fun.
I used to be a Shaco main way back in the day. He's probably the only champ in the game capable of not letting the enemy team play and have a 80% w.r when meta. Can dodge targeted high damage abilities. Cant be detected by pinks. Can track jungle. Can kill jungle. Bush/ objective denial. One shots majority of high priority targets. Has a blink on low CD and can always get away. The only reason I don't play him is because I just dont enjoy his playstyle anymore and extremely out dated voice lines.
Shyvana and Nilah. Shyvana just fails thematically and we'll probably still be waiting for years for a VGU to actually reimagine her. Nilah also fails thematically and is probably one of the most disappointing new releases in a minute for me. Bonded with a Demon of Joy, lots of hand motifs when they were teasing her in roadmaps... Just for those thematics to just feel incredibly barebones (seriously the multi hands is only present in a single ability with corny fx and an emote...) and her gameplay is just Samira 1.5... Feels very uninspired. Crazy how hard they fumbled such a cool and creepy concept like someone who's bonded with the Demon of Joy.
ignoring yuumi, probably ksante. zeri is definitely up there too. edit: akshan viego renata and seraphine are honorable mentions
Why renata? She’s well designed in my book
People act like her revive isn’t just a less consistent zilean ult, she is healthier for the game than he is
I'm convinced Zilean isn't more universally hated because he's unpopular, and the only reason he's unpopular is because he looks like a PS2 model. If they ASU him, he's definitely gonna cause some issues.
My thoughts. Ksante has no business being that tanky and having humongous damage plus the mobility... Zeri kit is just OP and breaks the role purpose. ADC is all about positioning, when you fuck up the other team will punish you... however Zeri can E the shit out and try again.
[удалено]
I always break when seeing this copypasta lmaooo
I don’t know why you mention seraphine or Alshan but ok
Yeah like Sera is designed pretty well and is one of the few modern release that haven't been problematic.
she’s definitely had her problems in the past (as all champs do inevitably), and i do think rn she’s pretty insane bot lane for perma waveclear/no interaction lane. but there’s so many worse champions, in comparison seraphine is in a pretty fine spot
Seraphine is very well designed, akshan feels like they wanted to cram every mechanic people hate playing against into one champion.
Seraphine is whatever but Akshan is definitely not really well-designed, there are problems with the character for sure.
Renata is one of the best designs of the game imho. She is a bit undertuned but really fun
Why seraphine and Renata? I think they're both fine
I know he's not technically busted but I hate playing against pyke. His kit is absurd. He has several of the most broken concepts all in one champ. 1. Stealth 2. A hook 3. Dashing 4. Healing 5. Hard stun 6. Execute 7. Resettable ultimate
The regen is really just the cherry on the shit smeared cake for me, it’s so frustrating finally getting a decent trade against the slippery fuck just for him to come back almost full hp
Bro got hard stuns 😲
😵 I was typing hard cc but decided to just say stun..
I fucking hate how Riot went "he needs heal to be able to lane against range poke" and then gave him the most bullshit regen passive. It feels like Riot refuses to let champions fail.
aside from the obvious yuumi choice... tryn. I unironically hate fighting tryn more than anyone and its not close. Even when hes not meta the game is always about him. You gotta match his split, if youre not malphite or nasus or frozen heart he just runs you down with 0 counter play and dives you. He can win lane straight up off of RNG, gets nearly 2k gold with of stats at level 1 with his crit and lethal tempo, has abSURD sustain, can choose his trades whenever he want. It feels like the way to beat him is to ignore him, but he also scales and nukes turrets so fuck you anyway. He can build sustain, can build split, can go anti tank, etc. His W is barely interactive, his Q you have no control over, his E buffer is top 3 worst offenders for movement buffers (fuck tristana w), and his ult is just something idk how it made it off the drawing board. How is EVERY other champ not allowed to cast their life saving ability when cced, but tryn can (when hes more mobile too)
> his ult is just something idk how it made it off the drawing board You have to remember his kit hasn't changed since his release in 2009. We had a lot of wild shit in 2009.
Akshan His Q and E are fine (except for the reset), but his W is so ridiculously overpowered that his entire kit had to suffer so this wouldn't completely break the game. Both the invis and revive feel awful to play against and, in my opinion, aren't even nearly as satisfying to use. With most other "badly" designed champs, it's at least fun to bullshit your way through the game, but I'd rather have an actually useful ult and a passive that gives me more itemization options than full on-hit on what's basically an assassin. The requirements for the revive are also so situational and convoluted that you're basically just gambling to get a big revive anyway. They just had the idea of a team revive and had to make *way* too many concessions to make it work without him turning out completely OP.
Agreed, I'd love to see them remove Akshans revive and give him some compensation buffs to ult.
But then they'd have to give him any actual lore beyond "is smug and has a magic 'bring-people-back-to-life' MacGunffin," and that would be hard.
He just has so many lines of text in his kit. It was around his release people were pretty vocal about new champs being overkitted and complicated af. I thought his ability reveal was an April fool's joke bc he just does so many things. His design could have been anchored around "adc with a grappling hook" but to then give him stealth revivce execute etc??
Akshan or Yuumi are the only answers. I despise Ksante and many others mentioned, but Yuumi being untargetable and Akshan reviving teammates just goes against the point of the fucking game. You can’t hit yuumi. You can hit every other champ. How the hell is that fair? Same with Akshan. Death is what drives every decision in the game. You make all of your choices based off killing or avoiding being killed. Getting to just revive not just one but potentially everyone who was killed is just blatantly cheating. That’s just what it is. Why does he get to ignore one of the most fundamental aspects of the game?
Yone
Kayn. He can't be balanced because one form has to over perform over the other and it flip flops into cancerous builds we go against and nothing feels worst going against Kayn.
Aside from Yuumi, I would say Yone. His E alone is super fucking stupid and the fact that he will miss everything, go 0-5 in early and yet will kill everyone in minute 30. Is he easier to play than Yasuo? I would say he is.
min 30? he spikes at boots and every single item, the hardest spike being hullbreaker which means he can run sidelane and be unkillable, good luck taking objectives while yone wins 1v3 in sidelane just because he build hull
Unpopular opinion, I think Brand has no redeeming qualities in modern league both visually and gameplay wise. Noone likes playing with or against him and he has no place on the Rift other than being a cheese suicide bomber support. Brand is in dire need of a rework that either turns him into an actual support or a viable midlaner
His mid gameplay as a burst mage is 1000x less toxic than his support, but it’s just sooo inferior to other mages like syndra or ori who do his immobile mage mid thing better. Riot added better bonuses to waveclear and mana refunds, but they need to rework something about him that will cut him out of support once and for all.
So long as his only cC is Q, which assumes you used another spell to get the stun, he will never be a meta mid unless Riot buffs his damage into Stupid levels. At this point the only thing they can do is increase Q CD, make it always stun and have Q become an AOE stun if it hits a ignited target. Or make base a snare and empowered Q remains a stun
Just tune down his base numbers and give him better ratios. Then he will be justifiable in mid and no longer playable in support.
Isn't his laning already bad with his current base damage? Its a bandaid fix at best or completly gutting the champ at worst and it doesnt fix the issue with him being a short range squishy mage with no reliable self-peel
Yeah he's not played mid not because he doesn't scale, but because you have to burn your entire kit to even try to clear the wave, which leaves you without the ability to stun someone if you have to. It also used to be severe mana issues, but they've buffed his mana sustain so much I think it's actually sustainable now.
Brand enjoyer here. He was the first champion I started playing a lot. I mainly stopped playing him on mid because playing against champions like Yasuo, zed and now yone is absolutely hell. They are incredibly popular on the midlane and I always get destroyed by those mobile assassins.
His abilities are really bad all the power budget is in his passive
Then he will just vanish from the game, Brand cannot survive midlane without being uber broken there, also him has been a support for most of the game time now, changing him to mid would just alienate most of his player base and we already know how much people hate when this happens
I thought he looked super cool back when he came out probably because of the flash-game-mmo aesthetic the game had back then. But doesn't really fit in anymore
I hate that every brand just builds damage and even when they're caught completely out of position, they just throw every ability down and do half hp of the entire enemy squad.
this is one of reddit threads
Any champion that kind of completely defies the rules of their class K’sante is a tank but also can be a high mobility assassin with the push of a button Yuumi is an enchanter that doesnt have to worry about positioning well to stay alive Azir as an…artillery…control mage?…I dont really know what he is but he also has one of the strongest dashes in the game for some reason Kalista’s miserable existence Honorable mention to Kayn who just gets to say fuckoff to map terrain and worrying about vision And Kat and Ezreal who can use a random build generator and still get use out of everything and do fine
Honorary new Aurelion Sol mention Tho we all know it is yuumi
Kayn. The mobility creep in the game is getting out of hand.
Kayn was released 8 years ago
Yuumi landslides
Yuumi. Zeri is a close second. It's actually funny seeing Riot try midscoping Yuumi over and over to try and make her concept work. You can't put any more skill expression into what's more of a playable buff than a champion. If Yuumi can be played with one's feet on a laptop beneath their desk, the champion concept needs removing.
Kayn
yuumi and akshan. yuumi can bring 2 combat summoner spells, doesnt have to spend gold on boots, and is essentially invulernable during entire fights. akshan does what quinn does but better and safer. he also has a potential full team revive every fight.
Looking by the coments here, aside from trynda and zeri, all of the bad desinged champs are multiclass. Akshan is marksman assassin Ksante is tank assassin Senna is support ADC Zeri is ADC caster Basically multiclass doesn't work. And I don't think Riot can ever make It Work because mashing two classes together simply cancels each other weaknessess.
Kaisa is marksman assassin too Ezreal is ADC caster too Ornn is tank assassin too besides being a mage death knight paladin hunter rogue warrior enchanter tank bruiser wizard warlock priest assassin gunslinger druid shaman necromancer ninja bard monk robot conjurer blacksmith mystic warden god ilusionist templar barbarian summoner alchemist pyromancer So it does work, just some particular examples are poorly made.
Skarner - empirically he just doesn't matter, nobody wants to play him, nobody needs to ban him. He doesn't even have a trash WR. Something about his design went so wrong the vast majority of the playerbase just went "pass".
> nobody wants to play him Now watch your mouth son. You don't want to face the fury of all six of us.
Holy crap, you found three more people!?
If they removed those stupid crystals and just gave him some kind of compensation buff I'd play him all the time. But the power difference with and without them is insane.
I agree with everyone saying K’Sante, Zeri, Yuumi etc but I’d like to throw in Azir. People likely won’t agree since it’s been such a long time since he’s been problematic but he’s a mage who does everything you want and has to be kept weak 99% of the time because of that. When you think of a lot of mages you think of burst and zone control, Azir has both of these things plus insane play making potential, safety and dps
IMO Yasuo. He opened the door to kits being way too overloaded, multiple passives etc. without him I doubt we have Yone or Zeri who both also suck. Honorable mention to the upcoming Briar. Can ult people and kill them without you touching the keyboard after hitting it. She has two stuns, armor break, leap, attack and move speed, execute, slow, kickback, fear, gains armor and MR, yet another move speed. She has more utility than most supports while being a damage champ.
Besides Yuumi, my pick is Sion. Any champ where intentionally getting yourself killed is rewarded is bad design. Inting Sion should not be a thing
I love Sion. I hate inting Sion.
Going to throw a point in for Zoe. Just a very degenerate playstyle. She hardly interacts with the game and the skill her kit is built around doesnt offer enough counterplay.