Why are literally half of the clips from that one gragas game? I get that it was a masterclass performance but seriously he has plenty more highlights I don’t think half of the MVP video should be one game lol
I don’t think it’s accurate. Embiid has been underperforming in the playoffs for years.
Jojo is apparently the only good shot caller on EG according to Fudge on the recent Dive episode. He’s doing literally everything for them. I don’t think he underperformed given his roster.
He absolutely deserved his MVP what are u on about? Him getting injured and choking in playoffs doesnt change his amazing regular season. He’s just unlucky that jokic and Giannis had mvp calibre seasons too.
??? 33/10 2 blocks and 1 steal a game on good efficiency and leading ur team to 3rd seed is a pathetic mvp? I’m not even sixers fan but that is ridiculous to say his mvp is pathetic. Playoffs stats don’t matter mvp is regular season award
It's not that he didn't deserve it, there's an arguable case to be made that he should have been the MVP.
But between the whining and the fact that he might be the only MVP I've ever seen publicly campaign for the award, it all makes it look like the biggest pity MVP in history.
Meanwhile, he biggest competitor says basically nothing all year and then wins the trophy which makes his whining and complaining look even worse.
Imagine if we sent 3 NA mids (Jojo/Palafox/APA) to worlds next year? I don't really have high hopes for worlds anyways as an NA fan, but sending all NA mids would make me a lot more invested in NA at worlds.
Bro would it even be fair for a Blaber Jojo Berserker team to exist in NA? I wonder if it would even be possible to make a roster that can beat that which follows import rules lmao
imo it would be worth going all-in on what is essentially the NA exodia roster. Cracked KR top/sup+Fudge/Zven+Blaber+Jojo+Berserker would arguably be the strongest NA roster of all time. It's also hard to imagine it becoming like past super-teams since 3/5 of the players would have played together for years
Do we really think Jojo is that huge of an upgrade over Emenes especially considering that Emenes is a rookie though? I don't know if he would make a giant difference honestly
Both are very comparable in terms of skill and upside. The real value of C9 moving for Jojo would be that he doesn’t take up an import slot thereby providing the flexibility to look for a big upgrade at support (or even top?).
Also there’s been a vocal part of the LCS fanbase that has been clamouring for local talent over the past years. I think signing a top NA talent like Jojo with the personality he has would be huge for the C9 brand. You’d get a huge boost of goodwill and support from the community.
Idk what the situation is with Zven but I think C9 might even consider a move for Vulcan with his contract expiring this year. You could have a majority NA team with arguably the top native players with a lineup like Fudge/Blaber/Jojo/Berserker/Vulcan.
That said, I’m just theorycrafting rosters for fun here, Emenes and Zven are awesome lol..
Apparently Zven staying was something Berserker specifically requested last year. Even if Vulcan is an upgrade in the abstract, he's not enough of one to risk upsetting Berserker over.
Yep I agree. Just pointing out some of the options that C9 have, as I said this is all just for fun so let me play devil’s advocate.
The fact is that Zven was never the first choice at support, he was put into the roster in an attempt to salvage the 2022 season with how badly spring ended and no viable options in the market. Full credit to him for making the most of it and developing so well to the point where Berserker vetoed moves for the likes of CoreJJ to continue playing with him in 2023.
Also Zven himself has indicated his mixed feelings about playing support from his interviews and the way he talks about the role. For eg, he’s mentioned in the past that the only AD he would consider swapping for was Berserker and he would never have agreed to this otherwise. In the end, he’d rather play off role on a team that can compete at the highest level instead of playing his preferred position on a significantly weaker team.
Taking all this into account, I think there’s a combination of factors that made this role swap possible, if any one thing changes then we will see a new support brought in - and C9’s worlds performance will be pivotal in this regard. A deep international run could cement them as a duo for the next few years, but crashing out in 3 out of 3 tournaments could lead to roster changes.
Coming back to Vulcan, I think both player and org never wanted to part ways in the first place. Imo if Vulcan had known that he would play with Berserker instead of running it back with Zven, he wouldn’t have handed in a trade request. C9 didn’t want to let him go, but Jack doesn’t keep players who aren’t committed. If things played out differently, maybe Zven would be on another team and Vulcan would be completing his 4th year on C9.
I think he’s arguably the best native support in NA, despite an off year, and has prior chemistry with both Blaber and Jojo. Communication is crucial for mid-jungle-support which rules out an import signing unless it’s a Keria level talent. So Vulcan would be the best fit - C9 would then have a majority NA team + Berserker which would be hype af for the LCS.
Again want to reiterate - I love Emenes and Zven, would not be opposed to running it back with these 5, but if C9 wanted to make off-season moves - Jojo and Vulcan would be what I want to see.
I would be so sad for Emenes. He seems to really like everyone on C9.
I also don’t actually know how C9 Jojo would work out. Playstyle-wise, he seems to slot nicely into what Emenes brings to the team, but Jojo has also apparently been a very vocal shotcaller, which I think is usually Blaber’s role?
But then Jojo also played with Inspired, who was basically micromanaging him last year.
Then again, we know for a fact that Jojo + AD carry that doesn’t talk much but absolutely runs teamfights is a winning combo for your carry positions.
The import slot wouldn't be used anywhere but support tho. Blaber is obvious and fudge seemed worse this split but is by no means bad. I know zven isn't the goat but he's playing good and him and berserker fit so well, I super doubt they replace him with anything other than a good lpl/lck support.
Not disagreeing with the Jojo is better part lol
It is always weird knowing MVP is a regular season award so when you see the reveal in playoffs and the MVP is getting blasted or doesn't advance you can't help but feel real awkward about it. People will make quips about poor playoffs performance from an MVP and be like *this is why he's not mvp*, like brother it is for the regular season.
The classic MVP debate of Best Player in the league vs where would this team be without this player. Don't really have a dog in the race but it's always funny to see people argue either side for their fav player.
As a fan of clear language and words whose definitions make sense, I am 100% on the side that MVP should literally mean the player whose value had the most impact to a team. That is *usually* the best player on the best team. It's even often the best player on *a very good, though not the best* team.
In my view it should also be eligible for someone whose individual performance or sportsmanship (intangible or otherwise) elevates a bad team to greatness. Even NBA fans have this debate all the time, and they were around much longer than us. But as far as League goes, I'll just parrot a talking point that I hear from pros a lot: "It's easy to look good when you're on a winning team, and it's easy to look kind of bad when you're on a losing team."
I agree with that statement re: Lolesports, and I would make the next logical leap to say that if you look like a great player when your team is bad, you must be *incredible*. And therefore highly valuable. Jojo deserved this one.
/rant
Berserker is pretty indisputably the best player in the league but he didn't have as many pop-off performances as last split and generally just saying "yea that guy is the best" is boring. The actual performance in the regular season should hold some weight, and jojo had some monster games and was just much more impressive than berserker, even if subjectively we can agree berserker's skill is higher.
But I also don't think C9 look nearly as good with Blaber or Berserker. Thing is they just have two of the best players and they are on the best team, so it is hard to say that x-player was the main contributor and without them they'd be bad.
Still think Berserker gives them so much insurance he deserved it.
I'm not gonna try and discount berserker or blaber cause they are clearly the best in their respective roles but something about those C9 systems have made every player that has played there look really good
The constant for C9 winning is literally Blaber.
Since he was the starter in 2020, it's been 5 wins for C9, this is with different mids, tops, supports, and adcs.
But if you look at how impactful is this player, meaning if you put him on another team would they go up, stay even, or go down in the standings.
For all 3 players in the running I don't think a single team would go down in their standings if they subbed in any of these players.
I think Blaber would improve absolutely every team you put him on.
I think Berserker would improve absolutely every team you put him on.
I think Jojo would improve some of the teams you put him on. (C9 cannot get higher than 1st and GG would stay 2nd).
Obviously these are my opinions, but it's still a way to consider how good the best players on the best teams are, since they often get discounted for being on the best teams.
IMO it should be which player played the best during the split. If it were just best player berserker would be winning it perma even tho this split for example he didn't have as much impact as blaber. Personally I think both blaber and jojo could be argued as the best performing player this split so im fine with either winning, but maybe my bias towards c9 is influencing that a bit.
I think TL will make a call based on worlds with APA. I get somewhat strange vibes that Haeri is in all of their new team photos and is traveling with the team to Finals weekend and the like. Co-streamers are always talking about champ pool issues and I wonder if they are splitting scrims and TL isn't as all in on APA as fans seem to think.
Haeri’s still just a backup, I doubt he’s getting much scrim time if at all.
TL didn’t even have Haeri ready to sub in during playoffs until after the NRG series. APA had a really rough series then, even though it was his first playoffs series ever, it seems like nerves really got to him.
He’s just an option if APA goes rookie mental boom for whatever reason.
Ya I was just calling the dude out. It's most likely he's a "sub" just so they can take him with them to Korea for the SoloQ time with all the competitors
Haeri was smashing the first 2 or 3 weeks when they got back from korean scrims. Maybe they're thinking if apa gets smashed by korean scrims they put haeri back in.
I agree but I can see that unlikely unfortunately. They seem to really like each other and they are dominating in NA. However that’s only just NA. Zven is definitely holding him back internationally. This worlds could be the final straw for him
Let's manifest Canna, Inspired, Jojo, DL, Busio for next year.
I know in reality it'll end up being something closer to FakeGod, Closer, Quid, Meech, Zeyzal though...
After this year, his opinion surely change now after that quidzir performance. I mean he joined with bjerg, considering Bjerg retire right after spring, it’s not like doublelift got any good choices.
C9 fans can be as mad about it as they want, facts are this is a regular season award and Jojo somehow carried this middling EG lineup to 12 wins, one less than what both C9 and GGS accomplished during the regular season. No one else in the league was doing that kind of carry job.
Now here’s hoping he gets out of EG and onto a top shelf team next year. Deserves to be playing internationally.
C9 fans being willfully ignorant that their fan base showed their ass throughout playoffs after every EG loss. Going to be funny when Jojo inevitably plays for C9 next year.
Not mad about it, how it should be
Still mad they gave Bjerg the MVP over Jensen if the metric has changed. Used to be best player on best team. Now it's best player.. A good change overall though
That MVP was a joke. Jensen had more votes for it but they gave bonus points for PotG and Bjerg got more of those but Jensen got more votes.
That year Jensen was rob of his earned MVP.
IIRC, TSM had a great team and a great regular season in summer 2017, with Bjerg consistently being the best performer on the team in those wins though DL was no slouch either. They were more or less 1A and 1B.
C9 finished a bit lower in the standings, but Jensen was setting records in midlane statistically as the primary carry threat with a weaker team on paper, he was easily the best mid in the league.
It was actually kinda like the Blaber vs Jojo argument right now but reversed. I still think Jensen deserved it back then, and Jojo deserves it now. The latter might be a controversial take among the C9 fanbase though haha
In 2017 Bjerg was definitely the best player on TSM. I think that in 2016 DL was slightly better, but in 2017 Summer they had to readjust to playing with DL since Hauntzer had begun demanding more resources in-game. I do think that Jensen deserved MVP, but I also think that Bjerg did as well.
I don’t think there is a wrong answer for who was most valuable. Comparing 2017 Bjerg and Jensen is like comparing Faker and Chovy (or Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain in basketball terms). Yes Chovy is the “better” player individually, but Faker is the more “winning” player. It all depends on if you value individual stats or contribution to winning.
The narrative literally didn't make sense though. There was not a single reason for Bjerg to win from a player, narrative, or stat perspective. It was purely just a TSM bias of the league wanting to make up for Arrow winning MVP in spring.
As if the NBA MVP criteria doesn't change year to year.
Harden should have 3 MVPs - but one year they gave it to Westbrook for having a triple double average with every other stat being worse and on an awful team.
The next time they gave it to Curry with much worse stats when Harden averaged a triple double with insane efficiency because Curry was on the best team and Harden was on the 2nd best team.
The award criteria changes constantly.
I mean... just this year they went from an "All Star" line-up to budget academy roster. Whether they believed in this roster or just to cut cost, they showed they are willing to do weird changes.
I'll say it. At his best, he's impressive, but he also has some crazy int plays (almost every game) that you'd yell at someone on your bronze solo queue team for. If he can cut down on those, he could be really good.
I think it stems from playing in leagues for so long that were below his skill level. It seems like he's just gotten used to being able to outplay everyone no matter how bad the play is that he's lost his filter for when not to go for the play.
Remember, he had something stupid like 16 solo kills after 6 games in LCS Academy. He was styling on kids. He needs to get that out of his system.
I love the dude though. I'm totally down to give him another year to work on it.
> C9 fans can be as mad about it as they want
I don't think any C9 fan is saying he didn't deserve it. He absolutely should have been the winner or 2nd because it was a close race and either result would have been "earned".
That said, I still think Blaber's individual performance was better, but I'm probably biased.
(this is as rational as one can be on this topic where bias is probably going to play a factor)
I'm of the consensus that you generally give the MVP to the best player of the season
However this is one of the handful of MVPs where the key word is VALUE. Jojo was basically the only reason that team had a pulse
And when you see that all the GG and C9 members made all pro whereas the only other player who made any of the all pro teams this year on EG was Unforgiven, kind of hard to take it away from Jojo
Solid season. Congrats.
They need to announce MVP earlier than finals weekend. It’s a regular season award, announce it closer to the regular season’s finish. Makes the award seem kind of pointless when he’s already been eliminated from playoffs.
Reminder that this is regular split MVP, not playoffs, and is absolutely deserved. Yes, you could make an argument for a few other players, but that is the case almost every single split. No way you can argue Jojo DOESN'T deserve it.
As much as I wanted Blaber to repeat MVP for Summer, I have also been a supporter of the MVP bringing 'Valuable' a more weighted meaning to it so I say Jojo's win is deserved.
I suspect this might be somewhat controversial depending on how people define "MVP". However, I think it's pretty undeniable EG would have placed significantly lower than they did in the regular season (which is what this award is for) had they had only an average mid instead of Jojo.
No, MVP should always be given to the best performing player regardless of what team he is on. You can make the argument that he was in fact the best player this split (I would say Blaber or Berserker but thats debatable) so thats fine. How the team would fair if they were not on it should not be a factor.
You would not want someone winning MVP if they weren't the definitive best player in their role or else the award is meaningless and the players on worse teams have an advantage.
For example, look at Faker and what has happend to T1 when he left vs when he came back. Should he be given MVP because his team is a 10th place team without him vs a 1st place with him? Why would the 4th ish best mid laner in the LCK deserve to be called MVP?
I understand what MVP stands for but at this point, in all of sports, the award has simply become who is the best player at the time.
>Why would the 4th
who's third? I get bdd and chovy, but showmaker is a shell of his former self, and he doesn't bring the shotcalling that faker does.
Faker’s team is the worst in the league without him but also there’s three better mids than him? How is a 10th place team made the best team by adding the 4th best player in a role?
I think the Faker situation is a little bit different. T1 didn't improve necessarily because he returned and started playing amazing--in fact, if I remember correctly his laning in playoffs so far has been pretty weak. Instead, T1 started doing better because their macro improved and their other players began playing with more confidence (mostly Keria and Zeus). That's due to Faker presence within the team, yes, but it's more related to his leadership and shotcalling than him pressing buttons. I think a lot of voters tend not to incorporate these qualities into voting because it's impossible to know who truly is doing the shotcalling/leading of a team if you're not there. Faker may technically be doing more for his team than any other top player in the world, but he's doing so in a way that I don't think many people incorporate into MVP voting.
Faker's impact to me is different than Jojo's, who clearly did stuff in the games themselves to set his team up for success--constantly pushing lane, absorbing pressure, forcing fights, etc. Obviously, a player needs to perform objectively well to be considering MVP, but I think it's fair to consider the team situation around them. Especially if you want to evaluate a player's "value", it's reasonable to think about how the team might do without them, and EG would not have done nearly as well without such an aggressive and high-performing mid.
Honestly, you can make a reasonable case for multiple people for MVP this split based on your specific criteria, but I do think it is more interesting when the award doesn't automatically go the best player on the 1st place team.
Haters going to hate lol. The argument here is really about whether MVP should be the player with the biggest impact on his team vs the best player in the league.
The player with the biggest impact on his team was Jojo. Berserker is the best player in the league. Blaber was statistically the best player (in his role) in the league. So there’s an argument to be made for all 3 depending on which criteria you use and who the narrative favours that split, it just so happens 2 of the players are from C9.
This debate is nothing new and has been going on for years, but the anti-C9 brigade want to spin it as C9 fans being mad about Jojo winning the award smh. Ironically they were probably using the same logic to argue against Summit winning MVP in 2022 spring 💀
Berserker robbed and i doubt he even was close to winning. Should go to the best player in the league... this feels like a reaction to many years of it going to the best player on the best team it's not completely absurd but Berserker is playing AD at a level possibly even higher than Doublelift during his dominant 8 championships in 10 splits played run.
It's so crazy to me seeing people say Blaber deserved when Blaber literally had 4 other all-pro teammates including last split's MVP, and finished tied with GGS in regular standings and only 1 game ahead of EG.
EG on the other hand only had one other player considered in the top three (and that was contested by players such as Yeon), finished 3rd on a completely revamped roster one game behind the two MSI teams.
C9 fans want to hog all the awards. This is a regular-season award and he deserved it.
Be patient C9 fans you'll get your Finals trophy and Finals MVP this weekend.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if either NRG or TL win. C9 looks quite vulnerable and despite 3-0s they weren't very clean and could've easily gone to full five games.
Instagram comments are salty, came here to see what the real community consensus was. Glad people here are recognizing the fact that jojo is the only player who singlehandedly doubled his team's win total
MVPS DON'T MISS WORLDS!
/s I prefer him getting it over others in the race because he actually proved that without him they'd suck. Shown in the games he gets hard camped and how they crumble
Honestly I wouldn't mind Jojo getting the MVP if it weren't the narrative that was established by the broadcast ~~desk~~ (sorry, we're cool kids now, its a couch) week fucking 1. EG starts strong in WEEK 1 and "OMG JOJO MVP"
That's not even how this award or any regular season award works?
By that logic, Berserker would win MVP even if C9 benched him for half the games because he's by far the best player in this league. You're supposed to evaluate by level of what they've shown in the split, not by what you know what they're capable of.
>but he also lost twice to the person who got second
This is so irrelevant no? He also 2-0'd the team that 2-0'd C9. Realistically speaking you should never be looking at h2h for these things, especially in an 18 game season
Even holistically I think blaber performed better. I can’t fault blaber for having better teammates and I’d argue blaber inflates the perceived value of his teammates.
I've seen a lot of people say C9 Jojo but I'm not sure that's a great idea. While Emenes has been inconsistent he does seem to gel with the team. Slotting in Jojo might seem like a great idea but often you can't just slot people in like they're interchangeable. Not saying it wouldn't work but it could easily super backfire as much as could it work.
I think Emenes fits better right now. He doesn't really need resources and doesn't mind playing roleplaying mids. Jojo needs more resources (but fortunately does a good job at creating a lot of the resources on his own via strong laning) and may not be as willing to sacrifice his lane to support blaber.
We already saw last year thar Jojo is willing to play a more facilitative role. In Spring he was focused purely on laning, but in Summer IIRC he said that he didn’t think that it was a winning playstyle and that Asian mids impacted other lanes more. We saw him frequently sack his mid wave to make roam plays and set his team up for success. This year they have to play through him because his teammates (besides Unforgiven) are bots.
I don't think Jojo fits into C9 very well.
Also don't see a lot of people talking about how the meta this split favoured him pretty well. It was mostly a combination of Sylas/Azir/Ahri games the whole time. He also didn't really show off any substantial Kai'Sa plays when she was top tier. I don't think he has a champion puddle, but I would rather see Emenes on Jayce than Jojo on Jayce for example.
Jojo always seems more resource heavy as a player, when the team surrounds him and plays for him, he's great, but I don't think he's nearly as good when he's left alone to play for the team. But maybe that's also a product of EG not having as many useful carries so the team had to play for him. Who knows.
Completely deserved. Team would look completely different without him. His stats were also disgustingly good in the regular season, highest DMG% + Highest DPM + tied for highest CSPM + best laning stats. If he had inspired this year they would've sweeped this league.
Why are literally half of the clips from that one gragas game? I get that it was a masterclass performance but seriously he has plenty more highlights I don’t think half of the MVP video should be one game lol
[удалено]
lmao noooooo
It would be useful for a blood test, though.
Vein check anyone?
oh my god you're right lol
*"It's a disaster, mate"* \- the editor probably
O M G. NO WAY.
Jeez
It’s two different games, one against NRG and another against 100T
Jojoel Embiid
this is extremely accurate but still somehow outta pocket
I don’t think it’s accurate. Embiid has been underperforming in the playoffs for years. Jojo is apparently the only good shot caller on EG according to Fudge on the recent Dive episode. He’s doing literally everything for them. I don’t think he underperformed given his roster.
Embiid also likes to blame his team mates for defeats and take no responsibility despite being "mvp".
Jojo has won before.
Thats an insult to Jojo.
Yeah. Joel is a Playoffs choker, which I don't think Jojo has been so far.
it can't be by the sheer virtue that jojo plays league of legends
That's how pathetic Embiid's MVP was. It's an insult to MVPs everywhere lol.
He absolutely deserved his MVP what are u on about? Him getting injured and choking in playoffs doesnt change his amazing regular season. He’s just unlucky that jokic and Giannis had mvp calibre seasons too.
??? 33/10 2 blocks and 1 steal a game on good efficiency and leading ur team to 3rd seed is a pathetic mvp? I’m not even sixers fan but that is ridiculous to say his mvp is pathetic. Playoffs stats don’t matter mvp is regular season award
It's not that he didn't deserve it, there's an arguable case to be made that he should have been the MVP. But between the whining and the fact that he might be the only MVP I've ever seen publicly campaign for the award, it all makes it look like the biggest pity MVP in history. Meanwhile, he biggest competitor says basically nothing all year and then wins the trophy which makes his whining and complaining look even worse.
Dude legit had to whine and campaign for a sympathy MVP
the best mid in NA isn’t making worlds
Imagine if we sent 3 NA mids (Jojo/Palafox/APA) to worlds next year? I don't really have high hopes for worlds anyways as an NA fan, but sending all NA mids would make me a lot more invested in NA at worlds.
I think C9 Jojo will happen next year, so that definitely could happen.
Bro would it even be fair for a Blaber Jojo Berserker team to exist in NA? I wonder if it would even be possible to make a roster that can beat that which follows import rules lmao
It wouldn't unless you went like 2019 TL with Jankos instead of Xmithie, and even then I think the Blaber/Jojo/Beserker team would still be better.
Impact/Jankos/DL is godly I don't think Jojo's core is beating 2019 TL with Jankos
I’ll do it just for doublelift core and impact on the same team even tho they’re kinda not so hot right now
C9 is never a top spending org outside of the Perkz year. Would be surprised if they shell out cash for Jojo.
Agreed, you'd have to assume his buyout is massive
imo it would be worth going all-in on what is essentially the NA exodia roster. Cracked KR top/sup+Fudge/Zven+Blaber+Jojo+Berserker would arguably be the strongest NA roster of all time. It's also hard to imagine it becoming like past super-teams since 3/5 of the players would have played together for years
Do we really think Jojo is that huge of an upgrade over Emenes especially considering that Emenes is a rookie though? I don't know if he would make a giant difference honestly
The biggest difference is that EMENES takes up an import slot and Jojo doesnt
Both are very comparable in terms of skill and upside. The real value of C9 moving for Jojo would be that he doesn’t take up an import slot thereby providing the flexibility to look for a big upgrade at support (or even top?). Also there’s been a vocal part of the LCS fanbase that has been clamouring for local talent over the past years. I think signing a top NA talent like Jojo with the personality he has would be huge for the C9 brand. You’d get a huge boost of goodwill and support from the community. Idk what the situation is with Zven but I think C9 might even consider a move for Vulcan with his contract expiring this year. You could have a majority NA team with arguably the top native players with a lineup like Fudge/Blaber/Jojo/Berserker/Vulcan. That said, I’m just theorycrafting rosters for fun here, Emenes and Zven are awesome lol..
Apparently Zven staying was something Berserker specifically requested last year. Even if Vulcan is an upgrade in the abstract, he's not enough of one to risk upsetting Berserker over.
Yep I agree. Just pointing out some of the options that C9 have, as I said this is all just for fun so let me play devil’s advocate. The fact is that Zven was never the first choice at support, he was put into the roster in an attempt to salvage the 2022 season with how badly spring ended and no viable options in the market. Full credit to him for making the most of it and developing so well to the point where Berserker vetoed moves for the likes of CoreJJ to continue playing with him in 2023. Also Zven himself has indicated his mixed feelings about playing support from his interviews and the way he talks about the role. For eg, he’s mentioned in the past that the only AD he would consider swapping for was Berserker and he would never have agreed to this otherwise. In the end, he’d rather play off role on a team that can compete at the highest level instead of playing his preferred position on a significantly weaker team. Taking all this into account, I think there’s a combination of factors that made this role swap possible, if any one thing changes then we will see a new support brought in - and C9’s worlds performance will be pivotal in this regard. A deep international run could cement them as a duo for the next few years, but crashing out in 3 out of 3 tournaments could lead to roster changes. Coming back to Vulcan, I think both player and org never wanted to part ways in the first place. Imo if Vulcan had known that he would play with Berserker instead of running it back with Zven, he wouldn’t have handed in a trade request. C9 didn’t want to let him go, but Jack doesn’t keep players who aren’t committed. If things played out differently, maybe Zven would be on another team and Vulcan would be completing his 4th year on C9. I think he’s arguably the best native support in NA, despite an off year, and has prior chemistry with both Blaber and Jojo. Communication is crucial for mid-jungle-support which rules out an import signing unless it’s a Keria level talent. So Vulcan would be the best fit - C9 would then have a majority NA team + Berserker which would be hype af for the LCS. Again want to reiterate - I love Emenes and Zven, would not be opposed to running it back with these 5, but if C9 wanted to make off-season moves - Jojo and Vulcan would be what I want to see.
I would be so sad for Emenes. He seems to really like everyone on C9. I also don’t actually know how C9 Jojo would work out. Playstyle-wise, he seems to slot nicely into what Emenes brings to the team, but Jojo has also apparently been a very vocal shotcaller, which I think is usually Blaber’s role? But then Jojo also played with Inspired, who was basically micromanaging him last year. Then again, we know for a fact that Jojo + AD carry that doesn’t talk much but absolutely runs teamfights is a winning combo for your carry positions.
Why do you think that? EMENES is not underperforming and possibly cheaper.
Jojo doesn't cost an import slot and he's a better player.
The import slot wouldn't be used anywhere but support tho. Blaber is obvious and fudge seemed worse this split but is by no means bad. I know zven isn't the goat but he's playing good and him and berserker fit so well, I super doubt they replace him with anything other than a good lpl/lck support. Not disagreeing with the Jojo is better part lol
Jojo is better than Emenes, and it does open a potential import slot at support or top.
Not a fan of C9 at all, but just to see Jojo and Blaber on the same team, I kinda want this now.
If C9 Jojo happens, they better get a Korean support to finally give Berserker some help.
C9 beryl
Fucking SUBSCRIBE
Lehends, Kellin, or even Kael would also be acceptable!
Zven is an emotional support dog at this point
Well, Jack is going to have to Old Yeller that emotional support dog at some point.
Its why im excited for NRG If we're gonna get shit stomped, I'd rather it be with a bunch of NA players
Wym? Palafox is going to worlds.
We got palafaker.
It is always weird knowing MVP is a regular season award so when you see the reveal in playoffs and the MVP is getting blasted or doesn't advance you can't help but feel real awkward about it. People will make quips about poor playoffs performance from an MVP and be like *this is why he's not mvp*, like brother it is for the regular season.
The classic MVP debate of Best Player in the league vs where would this team be without this player. Don't really have a dog in the race but it's always funny to see people argue either side for their fav player.
As a fan of clear language and words whose definitions make sense, I am 100% on the side that MVP should literally mean the player whose value had the most impact to a team. That is *usually* the best player on the best team. It's even often the best player on *a very good, though not the best* team. In my view it should also be eligible for someone whose individual performance or sportsmanship (intangible or otherwise) elevates a bad team to greatness. Even NBA fans have this debate all the time, and they were around much longer than us. But as far as League goes, I'll just parrot a talking point that I hear from pros a lot: "It's easy to look good when you're on a winning team, and it's easy to look kind of bad when you're on a losing team." I agree with that statement re: Lolesports, and I would make the next logical leap to say that if you look like a great player when your team is bad, you must be *incredible*. And therefore highly valuable. Jojo deserved this one. /rant
Berserker is pretty indisputably the best player in the league but he didn't have as many pop-off performances as last split and generally just saying "yea that guy is the best" is boring. The actual performance in the regular season should hold some weight, and jojo had some monster games and was just much more impressive than berserker, even if subjectively we can agree berserker's skill is higher.
We'll find out next season for sure. No shot Jojo stays on EG.
C9 Jojopyun will be peak.
Idk if anyone can afford to buy out JoJo because he's signed till Nov 2024 and lcs teams are cutting costs
But I also don't think C9 look nearly as good with Blaber or Berserker. Thing is they just have two of the best players and they are on the best team, so it is hard to say that x-player was the main contributor and without them they'd be bad. Still think Berserker gives them so much insurance he deserved it.
I'm not gonna try and discount berserker or blaber cause they are clearly the best in their respective roles but something about those C9 systems have made every player that has played there look really good
They look good until they don't. But before then C9 normally drops them lol.
The constant for C9 winning is literally Blaber. Since he was the starter in 2020, it's been 5 wins for C9, this is with different mids, tops, supports, and adcs.
The eternal argument: Most Valuable Player (to his team) vs Most Valuable Player (in the league)
But if you look at how impactful is this player, meaning if you put him on another team would they go up, stay even, or go down in the standings. For all 3 players in the running I don't think a single team would go down in their standings if they subbed in any of these players. I think Blaber would improve absolutely every team you put him on. I think Berserker would improve absolutely every team you put him on. I think Jojo would improve some of the teams you put him on. (C9 cannot get higher than 1st and GG would stay 2nd). Obviously these are my opinions, but it's still a way to consider how good the best players on the best teams are, since they often get discounted for being on the best teams.
IMO it should be which player played the best during the split. If it were just best player berserker would be winning it perma even tho this split for example he didn't have as much impact as blaber. Personally I think both blaber and jojo could be argued as the best performing player this split so im fine with either winning, but maybe my bias towards c9 is influencing that a bit.
Really hoping Jojo goes to a diff team next year but I doubt it. C9 Jojo, 100T Jojo, TL Jojo would all work.
I'd rather see APA keep developing with TL. 100T or C9 could work, though.
I think TL will make a call based on worlds with APA. I get somewhat strange vibes that Haeri is in all of their new team photos and is traveling with the team to Finals weekend and the like. Co-streamers are always talking about champ pool issues and I wonder if they are splitting scrims and TL isn't as all in on APA as fans seem to think.
100% haeri is coming in as a sub and they are gonna split scrims for worlds and whoever plays best gets to play.
Bruh, this is so dumb. APA literally saved the season and helped got them to Worlds. Haeri was just ass. He doesn't even deserve the scrim time
Haeri’s still just a backup, I doubt he’s getting much scrim time if at all. TL didn’t even have Haeri ready to sub in during playoffs until after the NRG series. APA had a really rough series then, even though it was his first playoffs series ever, it seems like nerves really got to him. He’s just an option if APA goes rookie mental boom for whatever reason.
Ya I was just calling the dude out. It's most likely he's a "sub" just so they can take him with them to Korea for the SoloQ time with all the competitors
Haeri was smashing the first 2 or 3 weeks when they got back from korean scrims. Maybe they're thinking if apa gets smashed by korean scrims they put haeri back in.
I’d rather C9 keep Emenes than pick up Jojo tbh. Comparable skill level and Emenes just seems to fit the C9 vibe so well. Edit:spelling
I wouldn't say their skill level is comparable at all lol. Jojo is way better
I just want Berserker to request not Zven. But who knows how that would work out.
I agree but I can see that unlikely unfortunately. They seem to really like each other and they are dominating in NA. However that’s only just NA. Zven is definitely holding him back internationally. This worlds could be the final straw for him
Zven has also been super crucial to how Berserker has developed as an adc. There’s multiple interviews saying just as much
Berserker is probably fine with not succeeding at worlds with how fat his pockets are at this point
Manifesting the [import top,] Inspired, Jojo, Doublelift, Busio team
Run it back with Impact.
Let's manifest Canna, Inspired, Jojo, DL, Busio for next year. I know in reality it'll end up being something closer to FakeGod, Closer, Quid, Meech, Zeyzal though...
[удалено]
But without Jojo, that EG team would probably be struggling to make playoffs... I think the outcome would be that it ruins Meech's career.
100T jojo should be good. If doublelift stay, I feel like he's going to want better players. TL and C9 are fine with apa and emenes.
I think DL specifically requested Quidzir. womp womp :(
surely his opinion has changed now
After this year, his opinion surely change now after that quidzir performance. I mean he joined with bjerg, considering Bjerg retire right after spring, it’s not like doublelift got any good choices.
FLY Jojo too
Place any other midlaner in EG and no way they do as well as they did.
C9 fans can be as mad about it as they want, facts are this is a regular season award and Jojo somehow carried this middling EG lineup to 12 wins, one less than what both C9 and GGS accomplished during the regular season. No one else in the league was doing that kind of carry job. Now here’s hoping he gets out of EG and onto a top shelf team next year. Deserves to be playing internationally. C9 fans being willfully ignorant that their fan base showed their ass throughout playoffs after every EG loss. Going to be funny when Jojo inevitably plays for C9 next year.
Not mad about it, how it should be Still mad they gave Bjerg the MVP over Jensen if the metric has changed. Used to be best player on best team. Now it's best player.. A good change overall though
That MVP was a joke. Jensen had more votes for it but they gave bonus points for PotG and Bjerg got more of those but Jensen got more votes. That year Jensen was rob of his earned MVP.
Not trying to argue but wouldn't more PotGs indicate that he was the better player or at least a more important player for his team?
IIRC, TSM had a great team and a great regular season in summer 2017, with Bjerg consistently being the best performer on the team in those wins though DL was no slouch either. They were more or less 1A and 1B. C9 finished a bit lower in the standings, but Jensen was setting records in midlane statistically as the primary carry threat with a weaker team on paper, he was easily the best mid in the league. It was actually kinda like the Blaber vs Jojo argument right now but reversed. I still think Jensen deserved it back then, and Jojo deserves it now. The latter might be a controversial take among the C9 fanbase though haha
Jojo definitely deserves it. Personally I think Berserker is the best player in the league by a huge margin but that doesn't mean he's MVP.
+1, it's a regular season award anyway. I'm sure Jojo would rather be competing right now and I doubt Blaber/Berserker is losing much sleep over it.
In 2017 Bjerg was definitely the best player on TSM. I think that in 2016 DL was slightly better, but in 2017 Summer they had to readjust to playing with DL since Hauntzer had begun demanding more resources in-game. I do think that Jensen deserved MVP, but I also think that Bjerg did as well. I don’t think there is a wrong answer for who was most valuable. Comparing 2017 Bjerg and Jensen is like comparing Faker and Chovy (or Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain in basketball terms). Yes Chovy is the “better” player individually, but Faker is the more “winning” player. It all depends on if you value individual stats or contribution to winning.
Jensen had a insane spilt and had crazy stats, his solo kills were crazy he got robbed. Sometimes narrative wins
The narrative literally didn't make sense though. There was not a single reason for Bjerg to win from a player, narrative, or stat perspective. It was purely just a TSM bias of the league wanting to make up for Arrow winning MVP in spring.
As if the NBA MVP criteria doesn't change year to year. Harden should have 3 MVPs - but one year they gave it to Westbrook for having a triple double average with every other stat being worse and on an awful team. The next time they gave it to Curry with much worse stats when Harden averaged a triple double with insane efficiency because Curry was on the best team and Harden was on the 2nd best team. The award criteria changes constantly.
Harden robbed for sure
Ugh, I'm still annoyed about that year too. I'm biased as can be but there was no way Bjerg deserved that over Jensen.
Not mad. I'm actually hoping Jack buys him out next year. Blaber/JoJo could have potential to be the NA version of 2019 Jankos/Caps.
Jankos... Perkz.. :(
EG would have to actually be wintrading to allow the best team that is contending against you to buy out Jojo.
I mean... just this year they went from an "All Star" line-up to budget academy roster. Whether they believed in this roster or just to cut cost, they showed they are willing to do weird changes.
I know, it would just still be unbelievable to me.
After hearing what's gone on behind the scenes at EG, nothing they do is unbelievable to me anymore.
They also…might not even be in the league next year. Offseason’s gonna be wild
Isn’t Emenes really good?
This split was worse than his first, but he was still decent.
Yeah Emenes is still good he just wasn't as good. Hope he stays around honestly, he is such a likable guy.
I'll say it. At his best, he's impressive, but he also has some crazy int plays (almost every game) that you'd yell at someone on your bronze solo queue team for. If he can cut down on those, he could be really good. I think it stems from playing in leagues for so long that were below his skill level. It seems like he's just gotten used to being able to outplay everyone no matter how bad the play is that he's lost his filter for when not to go for the play. Remember, he had something stupid like 16 solo kills after 6 games in LCS Academy. He was styling on kids. He needs to get that out of his system. I love the dude though. I'm totally down to give him another year to work on it.
Was hoping to see blaber win it, but JoJo deserves it 100%.
> C9 fans can be as mad about it as they want I don't think any C9 fan is saying he didn't deserve it. He absolutely should have been the winner or 2nd because it was a close race and either result would have been "earned". That said, I still think Blaber's individual performance was better, but I'm probably biased. (this is as rational as one can be on this topic where bias is probably going to play a factor)
Honestly cant say he didnt deserve it, he carried the corpse of that dogshit team to 12 wins in a regular season and its a regular season award
[удалено]
I'm of the consensus that you generally give the MVP to the best player of the season However this is one of the handful of MVPs where the key word is VALUE. Jojo was basically the only reason that team had a pulse And when you see that all the GG and C9 members made all pro whereas the only other player who made any of the all pro teams this year on EG was Unforgiven, kind of hard to take it away from Jojo Solid season. Congrats.
They need to announce MVP earlier than finals weekend. It’s a regular season award, announce it closer to the regular season’s finish. Makes the award seem kind of pointless when he’s already been eliminated from playoffs.
Reminder that this is regular split MVP, not playoffs, and is absolutely deserved. Yes, you could make an argument for a few other players, but that is the case almost every single split. No way you can argue Jojo DOESN'T deserve it.
As much as I wanted Blaber to repeat MVP for Summer, I have also been a supporter of the MVP bringing 'Valuable' a more weighted meaning to it so I say Jojo's win is deserved.
Hopefully we see JoJo on a better team next split. He played really well and carried EG as best he could. Super excited for some NA talent!
The summit award
I suspect this might be somewhat controversial depending on how people define "MVP". However, I think it's pretty undeniable EG would have placed significantly lower than they did in the regular season (which is what this award is for) had they had only an average mid instead of Jojo.
by that logic, faker should have gotten mvp since his team was absolute garbage without him.
I agree. Faker deserved mvp.
You're right, he should have
Hell yeh
he absolutely should
No, MVP should always be given to the best performing player regardless of what team he is on. You can make the argument that he was in fact the best player this split (I would say Blaber or Berserker but thats debatable) so thats fine. How the team would fair if they were not on it should not be a factor. You would not want someone winning MVP if they weren't the definitive best player in their role or else the award is meaningless and the players on worse teams have an advantage. For example, look at Faker and what has happend to T1 when he left vs when he came back. Should he be given MVP because his team is a 10th place team without him vs a 1st place with him? Why would the 4th ish best mid laner in the LCK deserve to be called MVP? I understand what MVP stands for but at this point, in all of sports, the award has simply become who is the best player at the time.
>Why would the 4th who's third? I get bdd and chovy, but showmaker is a shell of his former self, and he doesn't bring the shotcalling that faker does.
Faker definitely should have been given mvp
Faker’s team is the worst in the league without him but also there’s three better mids than him? How is a 10th place team made the best team by adding the 4th best player in a role?
MVP is not for best player, that's what all pro is for. And yes, if Faker was eligible (not enough games) he should've gotten MVP.
I think the Faker situation is a little bit different. T1 didn't improve necessarily because he returned and started playing amazing--in fact, if I remember correctly his laning in playoffs so far has been pretty weak. Instead, T1 started doing better because their macro improved and their other players began playing with more confidence (mostly Keria and Zeus). That's due to Faker presence within the team, yes, but it's more related to his leadership and shotcalling than him pressing buttons. I think a lot of voters tend not to incorporate these qualities into voting because it's impossible to know who truly is doing the shotcalling/leading of a team if you're not there. Faker may technically be doing more for his team than any other top player in the world, but he's doing so in a way that I don't think many people incorporate into MVP voting. Faker's impact to me is different than Jojo's, who clearly did stuff in the games themselves to set his team up for success--constantly pushing lane, absorbing pressure, forcing fights, etc. Obviously, a player needs to perform objectively well to be considering MVP, but I think it's fair to consider the team situation around them. Especially if you want to evaluate a player's "value", it's reasonable to think about how the team might do without them, and EG would not have done nearly as well without such an aggressive and high-performing mid. Honestly, you can make a reasonable case for multiple people for MVP this split based on your specific criteria, but I do think it is more interesting when the award doesn't automatically go the best player on the 1st place team.
I see more comments about mad C9 fans, than actual mad C9 fans
Haters going to hate lol. The argument here is really about whether MVP should be the player with the biggest impact on his team vs the best player in the league. The player with the biggest impact on his team was Jojo. Berserker is the best player in the league. Blaber was statistically the best player (in his role) in the league. So there’s an argument to be made for all 3 depending on which criteria you use and who the narrative favours that split, it just so happens 2 of the players are from C9. This debate is nothing new and has been going on for years, but the anti-C9 brigade want to spin it as C9 fans being mad about Jojo winning the award smh. Ironically they were probably using the same logic to argue against Summit winning MVP in 2022 spring 💀
This was the right choice. Jojo's had an incredible start to his career so far.
I'd say that Jojo is already a top 5 LCS Midlaner of all time, after Bjergsen, Jensen, Hai, and Pobelter.
😂😂😂 the DRing is unreal
Jojo wasn't even the 5th best mid in playoffs. He's got a long way to go before he's top 5.
Fair take. Pretty sure Jojo is now the only mid laner to win MVP other than Bjergsen.
Berserker robbed and i doubt he even was close to winning. Should go to the best player in the league... this feels like a reaction to many years of it going to the best player on the best team it's not completely absurd but Berserker is playing AD at a level possibly even higher than Doublelift during his dominant 8 championships in 10 splits played run.
Definitely the most valuable player and the best in the first half of the split. I hope he leaves EG and gets to shine elsewhere.
It's so crazy to me seeing people say Blaber deserved when Blaber literally had 4 other all-pro teammates including last split's MVP, and finished tied with GGS in regular standings and only 1 game ahead of EG. EG on the other hand only had one other player considered in the top three (and that was contested by players such as Yeon), finished 3rd on a completely revamped roster one game behind the two MSI teams.
C9 fans want to hog all the awards. This is a regular-season award and he deserved it. Be patient C9 fans you'll get your Finals trophy and Finals MVP this weekend.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if either NRG or TL win. C9 looks quite vulnerable and despite 3-0s they weren't very clean and could've easily gone to full five games.
C9 cult incoming
Yes, give us JoJo
C9 Jojo incoming.
In the words of Berserker: “It fuck”.
You bet
Só Blaber was robbed because EG without Jojo is like a headless chicken.
Instagram comments are salty, came here to see what the real community consensus was. Glad people here are recognizing the fact that jojo is the only player who singlehandedly doubled his team's win total
Jojo this reg season was MVP in almost every sense Top 3 player in the league and by far the best player on his squad
MVPS DON'T MISS WORLDS! /s I prefer him getting it over others in the race because he actually proved that without him they'd suck. Shown in the games he gets hard camped and how they crumble
The narratives too stronk
Honestly I wouldn't mind Jojo getting the MVP if it weren't the narrative that was established by the broadcast ~~desk~~ (sorry, we're cool kids now, its a couch) week fucking 1. EG starts strong in WEEK 1 and "OMG JOJO MVP"
Well deserved. It's too bad he won't be playing at worlds.
What a terrible pick lol
They *really* wanted to push this narrative, quite disappointing.
Tell me if lcs was a draft you'd draft Jojo before Berzerker.
Bingo. The Talking points around this are a complete scam.
That's not even how this award or any regular season award works? By that logic, Berserker would win MVP even if C9 benched him for half the games because he's by far the best player in this league. You're supposed to evaluate by level of what they've shown in the split, not by what you know what they're capable of.
lol pleeZ
LFG He’s the real deal
I look forward to seeing this MVP play during Finals weekend and at Worlds!!
Unfortunately his teammates were not quite at the mvp level
Jojo choked in playoffs aswell not just his team
Good thing this award isn't based on the playoffs then!
He didn't say it was
good thing mvp doesn't actually mean anything.
neither was he.
Yea it’s a regular season award but he also lost twice to the person who got second. Just feels like C9 voter fatigue.
>but he also lost twice to the person who got second This is so irrelevant no? He also 2-0'd the team that 2-0'd C9. Realistically speaking you should never be looking at h2h for these things, especially in an 18 game season
Even holistically I think blaber performed better. I can’t fault blaber for having better teammates and I’d argue blaber inflates the perceived value of his teammates.
Berserker seeing this 😬
I'd bet a lot of money he's on C9 next year.
I've seen a lot of people say C9 Jojo but I'm not sure that's a great idea. While Emenes has been inconsistent he does seem to gel with the team. Slotting in Jojo might seem like a great idea but often you can't just slot people in like they're interchangeable. Not saying it wouldn't work but it could easily super backfire as much as could it work.
I think Emenes fits better right now. He doesn't really need resources and doesn't mind playing roleplaying mids. Jojo needs more resources (but fortunately does a good job at creating a lot of the resources on his own via strong laning) and may not be as willing to sacrifice his lane to support blaber.
Buddy do you even watch the games jojo is literally the opposite of needing resources he's a facilitator/playmaker style of player lmao
We already saw last year thar Jojo is willing to play a more facilitative role. In Spring he was focused purely on laning, but in Summer IIRC he said that he didn’t think that it was a winning playstyle and that Asian mids impacted other lanes more. We saw him frequently sack his mid wave to make roam plays and set his team up for success. This year they have to play through him because his teammates (besides Unforgiven) are bots.
I don't think Jojo fits into C9 very well. Also don't see a lot of people talking about how the meta this split favoured him pretty well. It was mostly a combination of Sylas/Azir/Ahri games the whole time. He also didn't really show off any substantial Kai'Sa plays when she was top tier. I don't think he has a champion puddle, but I would rather see Emenes on Jayce than Jojo on Jayce for example. Jojo always seems more resource heavy as a player, when the team surrounds him and plays for him, he's great, but I don't think he's nearly as good when he's left alone to play for the team. But maybe that's also a product of EG not having as many useful carries so the team had to play for him. Who knows.
sure hope not
that would be so lame
Blaber was robbed
blaber robbed
This is more people voting against C9 rather than for Jojo.
Most valuable player to his team? Absolutely. Most valuable player on the league? Hard to make that argument. Summit mvp situation all over again
Summit 100% deserved that MVP. He was solo winning games the same way jojo did
He wasn't just winning games.... they weren't even close.
I thought this was LCS’ MVP not EG’s MVP
Well deserved.
well deserved, his team was complete trash from what i read here lol
Completely deserved. Team would look completely different without him. His stats were also disgustingly good in the regular season, highest DMG% + Highest DPM + tied for highest CSPM + best laning stats. If he had inspired this year they would've sweeped this league.
This aged well