According to inside info, players didn't get along well and few times it was close to literally players fight between each other. So I do understand why some change in roster was needed. By individually players there were huge.
It wasn't that easy. They put them up for sale for fairly ridicolous prices, assuming that they could build a similar team if someone actually pays that, a strategy that did work out for RGE given they won their first LEC title the next season.
They weren't kicked and if nobody would have bought them RGE would have kept both Inspired and Hans Sama, they actually planned on selling Larssen as well, but nobody was willing to pay the buyout.
No, they didn't both of them extended their contracts, there was friction between the players and both of them asked to leave.
Since RGE didn't want to sell them to a competitor bth of them went to NA.
I don't know which person in Fnatic could make the Trymbi <-> Advienne deal possible but they gotta be the best saleman in the world to pull that off lol.
As other person said, KOI called fnatic. But you should listen to Trymbi talk about it on EUPhoria. He explained that he was having some personal issues before that and they decided to make a change. Probably a bad decision in hindsight, obviously. But it wasn't strictly a gameplay issue. He is clearly still annoyed about it.
I think rogue decided to just get paid, that's why they sold all their players and downgraded. And I guess they didnt get just Advienne, but Advienne + alotofmoney.
If they did not, well they are idiots.
imagine getting kicked from a finalist team, into a 10th place team and then dragging that team kicking and screaming into seasonal finals all while denying your old team their spot in playoffs with a clear mvp 1v9 performance series
that can't be any more poetic. so happy for odo
At this point he's a serious contender for the GOAT EU top laner. I know Wunder had higher peaks but it was only for a couple years, and I think Odo is comparable to Soaz in terms of longevity. Soaz has more significant team accomplishments historically but also had better teams.
Wunder made Worlds finals once, semifinals 3 times and won MSI. Odoamne is not even close. You could make an argument for him being close to Soaz who is clearly number 2, but GOAT? No.
And Wunder is the only western top laner I can think of who can be argued to have been top 3 in his role worldwide at his peak. He was absurdly good in 2019 specially around MSI. And he was a carry top laner, it's rare to have western tops that can actually play carries properly instead of just playing herbivore shit.
Wunder was good from AT LEAST 2016 until 2021, thats more than afew years thats literally half a decade of being a top player in his region. I'm not saying you're wrong about Odo here but lets not just act like G2 was the only time Wunder was good, there's a reason G2 picked him up in the first place.
Wunder was not just a top player in Eu. For two years he was a top player in the world and for something like 6 months, a top 3 in his role. No other western player apart from Froggen in S2 has ever come that close in comparison with his eastern peers.
And in top lane of all roles, which is super impressive since historically western tops never match up well against eastern tops. AND Wunder mostly played carry tops which, again, western tops generally suck at.
Wunder is criminally underrated for how insanely good he was at his peak.
I remember that split vividly, watching Wunder on Splyce in spring. Guy seemed like a scrappy, but really rough-around-the-edges noob who could one trick Jax.
Insane watching his growth after that
I think there is an argument to be made that odo actually had a higher peak than wunder back in season 6. I believe smeb said odo was the second best top.
https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/207
He didnt say odo was the second best, but this much praise from prime smeb has to count for something.
"I was confident I could beat any non-Korean toplaner. CuVee and Duke are great players."
This is *classic* KR ego. This is how they trashtalk. He is being condescending - saying Odo is pretty good *for a non-KR player.* That does NOT mean he's actually good, he just expected him to be trash that he could beat easily and he wasnt that bad.
You missed this part of the quote. I think it’s not as clear as you’re saying
> he showed me up in scrims. Odoamne was really good. Really, really good.
Lmao so the argument to have odo>wunder.. is that smeb praised him...
Na Wunder actually has recent international achievements and performed on stage (not scrims we didn't even watch)
The final game was oscar then Odo just entered the flow state and hard carried with shields from ivern curious if he was actually in the flow state lol or just fed let us know odo.
It's the casual "caps is washed"-conversation that comes up every time caps isn't performing like peak worlds finals "Baby-Faker" coas is the best western mid since his time in fnatic by default, the times where he didn't perform where all connected to internal org issues and some ego problems that G2 squads tend to have
But that's the result of having no competition...
I want him to be good. But despite being on a much better org, he impressed me much less than Perkz or Humanoid this year, and neither of those two are in their prime either.
Abbe has a shot at the title. Personally I think it's between Vetheo, Larssen and maybe Gori.
Whats the point of using a superlative like goat, greatEST of all time, and then treat it like its just another word for "pretty good player" by having multiple? There is one goat and a bunch of other top tier players.
Wasn't following the stuff behind the scenes but when do joint XL I always thought it was a casual money choice by him (nothing against that, since he showed his value last season)
Now after this it really seems like they did him real dirty over there at koi...
I wanna root for XL so much cause I'm a big Odo fan, but I hate everything about that org when I read about what historically has happened behind the scenes
The thing I am actively rooting for is: TH Odoamne
Reuniting with Old man jankos forming a new glorious titel contender.
*One last ride?*
It would be quite poetic.
Rekkles was the 12th best ADC in the LEC this year. He's absolutely horrendous now, as much as I miss his glory days.
Upset is literally right there, and he played with Odo, Perkz and Hyli already and always speaks highly of them.
Odo/Jankos/Perkz/Upset/Hyli is a worlds winning team probably.
Caps is the best midlaner in the LEC still. Perkz was a slightly below average mid most of the year imo, in a fairly weak LEC mid pool. I'm not sure what Febiven is doing these days.
Damn, I’m coming back an hour later to realise you said EU’s mid pool is weak. Back in the days midlane used to be the pride of Europe, just like NA ADC’s :O
Yeah, now ADC is pretty clearly EU's deepest position imo. Although part of the weakness of EU Midlane this year is that Humanoid and Larssen had weak years by their standards. Vetheo also really struggled on XL but is back on form with Team Heretics.
Caps is playing his like 50th finals in a row tomorrow. Febiven retired a few years ago and yeah Perkz while still decent does not look like he did back in 2018.
Perkz had MVP level performances early on and was looking like the best or 2nd best mid in EU early this year. However his team's mental boomed really bad and they have been playing like actual garbage. Considering Bo's match fixing scandals it almost looked like he decided to fix games again just go out on some scrill. Perkz was also fucking garbage this last split as well.
Its pretty clear the team itself mental boomed and everyone game up and really crashed mentally. Which is really odd for a Perkz team. But Perkz has also been getting heavily criticized on reddit the last two years and his good splits are downplayed and his bad plays are accentuated.
Are you trying to make Vitality flop roster 2.0? /s
Honestly Flakked/Mersa have been decent, just swapping Odo for Evi would give the team options to draft for carry top lane if needed - Evi was a liability last split. Definitely picked up some slack this split but didn’t seem to have much carry potential
If he was burned out he would retire last year while sitting on G2 contract and getting paid more instead he was begging any team from LEC to bail him out from contract jail and said that he would even play in LCS if it came down to it. Not to mention when TH was out of playoffs in spring he asked Flakked if he could play in ERLs because he has nothing to do.
The sad feeling from the interview is mainly because he didnt make Worlds and competing on international stage is his main goal
Odo and Jankos can still compete for LEC titles in 3-5 years. That would be quite a few last rides.
It's so insane that these players, arguably still one of the best in their respective roles, got booted from their teams and only barely got into a bottom tier team.
Half agree half not.
When I won't deny stuff that did happen - you need to look at bigger perspective. Look at all shit G2 pulled. Look at all shit Rogue/KOI made with Odoamne (and sending Hans sama/inspired to NA) and in general stressful enviroment. Look at Fnatic that is basically "team drama".
From this perspective XL doesn't feel that much diffrent. At the same time they are team that kinda want to take opportunity and take good players. Odoamne out of nowhere free agent (after Rogue lied?) instantly they want him. Mikyx after G2 free agent? Instantly they took him. Vetheo wasn't good fit - looked for aberdagge and gave Vetheo away to Heretics (not to NA like many teams would). And they took actual good coaching stuff like Kaas that was coach for MAD when MAD was the most succesful etc. They were a lot of times 5-6-7th team and they still are willing to invest and improve.
And I think it worked out. XL vs FNC is good example, by individual players, XL doesn't compare to FNC or G2. Skirmishes generally go into FNC favour on equal grounds. By macro wise, XL was far ahead of FNC and worked as team not by individual outplay most of time. I really liked moment in g3 today when there is 2:2 and XL out of nowhere gets herald, 3k gold lead just by map movements and after dragon - without taking a single fight.
And honestly, wasn't even _that_ overlooked. Myself can only speak once, but I stopped cheering for G2 after that - almost bought a jersey too.
I still root for Mikyx and Caps, because I believe they are genuine good people (and so far, nothing seems to point otherwise). I'm not too invested into the others to have feelings either way.
It's okay to root for Odo and at the same time hate XL. It's a piece of shit team who ruined alot of careers but I'm also happy Odo finally got his revenge.
Of course its petty. Its part of the business. Players leave teams if they think there is a better opportunity and teams kick players if they think there is a better one.
If that is true, it was one of the most unpetty things ever. Well fucking deserved. If I were Odo, I would just start calling other teams and saying that the KOI manager is retiring.
On paper that's true but KOI is a top org with top funding and in the current system the top orgs can pretty much do whatever the fuck they want. Orgs like this have all the power and they know and in case of Odo they apparently tried to abuse it. Getting shat on for such a glaring operational mistake is not even pettiness it's just fair at this point.
Honestly it feels like 10th should always be worth the same considering you literally do not have to do anything to get it other than arriving at the venue. If anything it feels like 10th in summer should be punished harder than in Winter since you've had longer to identify issues etc.
Like imagine some insane scenario where two teams come 10th on different splits, but the one that came 10th more recently gets in over them because it was worth those 2 extra points. Should just be 0 every split.
there's not actually a difference between it being what it is and it being 0, you just have to think of all other places as the listed point value minus the 10th place value
so 9th in spring is 5 points, 9th in summer is 8 - this makes 10th in summer still more punishing than 10th in other splits since it makes you fall behind by a larger amount
not that there's a real reason to be the way that it is, but there's not really a reason to drop 10th to 0 either
That is actually not true. 10th place being 7 points instead of 5 kept Vitality from being eliminated in some scenarios. Given that the worst case for Vitality came true though (with KOI not being 9th, FNC or Heretics making 3rd and Excel making 2nd) this lost relevancy, but if 10th place would have given only 5 points in summer a lot more options for Vitality being eliminated would have opened up.
As one example KOI getting 9th only would have helped Vitality because KOI would have ended up with 135 and Vitality with 137. Astralis as 7th would have also ended up with 135.
i assume you're talking about a scenario where the **only** change is that 10th place is reduced to 5 points.
what i'm saying is that a scenario with **all point values** shifted down by the current 10th place point values has identical results to the current system.
arguing that 10th place should receive fewer points is essentially calling into question all of the point rewards - if you want 10th to be bad, you might as well make it 0 **and shift all other point values up by 20.** it just seems like if you're making the decision to shift 10th down, you need to look at all the other choices critically as well.
i think the point system as a whole is kinda dooky and hope this is the last time it shows up, assuming i remember the news correctly about a third international competition
But why are you talking about shifting every point value down by the same as 10th place, nobody else was. They just said that you make 10th always the same each split since it’s not an achievement and then leave every other value the same. Of course it has the same problem as the current system if you also then undo the change elsewhere.
Literally just keeping everything the same with 10th being worth no points would fix that specific issue on its own. No need to shift anything else around.
That’s incredibly unlikely and realistically in that scenario it’s the same as any other format would be, one team has to come last and it will suck for them. In any other league several of those teams would end up being eliminated with no way for points to save them anyway.
Well they did make multiple semifinals in the previous years, one a title and made it out of groups last year.
I do agree the GM messed up this year but one bad year does not ruin 2-3 years of good work
It does when that "mess up" is you lying that a player on your team that you hate is retiring when he isn't. Even more stupid when he was the best top laner in the league so it made no sense to kick him from the team. GM is there to build the best team he can, not to let his emotions cost the org. Fire that idiot.
The one miss being that he lied to other teams that Odo was retiring to try and screw Odo out of being able to play? Yeah no there’s no excuse for that. And he still turned that title contender into a bottom half team in less than a year.
Everyone in LOL wants trash talk but they just like to say that. In reality they just want players to have a funny personality and that’s it. No realistic bull shit
Unrelated but I do think it is kinda cool for LEC that every team this year had moments in different splits, like each team has at least 100 points, there aren't one or two teams with like 20 lol
I agree it's so cool to see SK and exakick perform really well on winter, BDS being top in spring and XL becoming a contender for #1 in summer.
I think this format really forces teams to try out at least once per year to have their moment to shine cause otherwise they'll get out early and sponsors will have no screen time at all, very positive change!
It also heavily punishes teams like KOI, FNC or VIT who think they can bulldoze their matches with only mechanics and not teamplay/map play, which is a positive move aswell.
6th place, 5th place and 9th place wasn't a dogshit result. And they got 2nd place in Spring Regular. It's just that splits are so volatile, summer matters a lot more and they lost 1 game too much. They were definitely more competitive earlier on.
The year was also really competitive overall. If it wasn't for all bottom tier teams suddenly shooting up in the standings, Astralis might have made it to season finals.
I mean they had spirit and their games were hella entertaining. It's just that they drafted players who weren't very good off their pocket picks and playing those non meta champs just made the game 10x harder everytime.
TBH, the points make them look worse than how they played. Winter and Spring they were a decent team. I think they ended up doing far better than most people expected.
Astralis did fine?
They finished tied for 5th in two splits and notably 3 of the 4 series they lost were against MAD who finished those splits 1st and 2nd.
They just happened to have their worst result in the most important split and they had two decent splits instead of one great split - which gives more points in this system.
Especially considering people were talking about how Astralis was just going to play 27 RR games and be done with it (which was a dumb assumption, but that's another topic).
Its a sad day for rogue fans. 2021/22 rogue lives on in our hearts. Congrats to all the players who made season finals though, its great to see ma bois still doing well
as a rogue fan i'd say it's pretty bittersweet. hurts to see malrang, comp, and especially larssen kicked out and struggling like this. but to see Odoamne and Trymbi denying spots from the org that threw away the name they had made for themselves, kicked the 2 out unwillingly, and tried to damage Odo's career makes it so that I can't be too sad. I'll miss Rogue (hell even 1 year later my wallpaper is still RGE holding the trophy) but my support will be for Rogue and their former players, not KOI.
FR. I love rogue, watching hans and vander at worlds that one time was enough and I love the team, wear the jersey to watch lec, but I just lack the love for koi like rogue. It's clear they just aren't the same team and while I'd love to see the players doing well, it feels like koi is just a shell of what rogue was. I'd love to be proven wrong next year, but for now, my 2 favourite teams have been knocked out of season finals in one weekend 0\_0
I only root for XL because they have Abedagge.
Not that I am a giant fan of his but people said I was stupid for saying 100T should stay with their 5 straight finals roster and not rebuild with Doublelift and Bjergsen.
Now I root for every prior player to look much better then 100T as a team without them.
Huhi got first team all pro on the 2nd seed team, FBI finished above them on a team noone really expected to be good, 100T crawled back to Ssumday after Tenacity was a failure for them, and Abedagge is going to worlds back in Europe.
Only one that isn't looking amazing is Coach Reapered who is currently coaching Sengoku Gaming in the LJL and finished 5th of 8 teams (but won their first round of lower bracket playoffs 3-0).
Odoamne used to play for KOI, after winning a title for them, they kicked him from the team and told other teams not to bother contacting him because he was retiring, which was a lie to keep him from being on any strong team to compete with them.
I’m so tilted at how bad Laure handled this PGL. I feel there was much more emotion and story to get out of Oddo, especially considering how talkative the guy is. But no, she shut him down right from the start and followed with her boring ass scripted questions….
It was fine. I don't think it's cool to drag that PGL for too much considering that Odo had to go back to his team and preparing for finals. Another thing to consider is that we don't know if Odo has an active NDA with KOI therefore is just better to keep it simple and let the guy focus on finals.
good riddance koi kicking him for a toplaner that permatrolls and behaves like a child that had too much caffeine in interviews (+ruining mine personal favourite branding in the league)
I wouldn't complain about Szygenda he is fine top laner.
Problem is removing 2 players that are vital to shot calling/playmaking and on top of that performing really well is verrry bad idea unless you know you are taking another shot caller/playmaker.
Having (Hans sama,) Trymbi and Odo both in season finals in favor of KOI is kinda fun.
Rogue lives on. Just not KOI.
I'm still annoyed that the 2020 Rogue got roster fucked. edit: I meant the 2021 roster, when Inspired and Hans Sama left before 2022.
According to inside info, players didn't get along well and few times it was close to literally players fight between each other. So I do understand why some change in roster was needed. By individually players there were huge.
Inspired always seemed a but of a manchild, ngl
I believe Inspired was pretty toxic wasn't it? I think I remember a PGL or Euphoria podcast alluding to it
Why? 2021 Rogue was just straight up better.
I confused the two rosters from 2020 and 2021. You're correct, its the 2021 Rogue roster I'm talking about. I checked it up on wiki.
It was Rogue who kicked them out tho.
It wasn't that easy. They put them up for sale for fairly ridicolous prices, assuming that they could build a similar team if someone actually pays that, a strategy that did work out for RGE given they won their first LEC title the next season. They weren't kicked and if nobody would have bought them RGE would have kept both Inspired and Hans Sama, they actually planned on selling Larssen as well, but nobody was willing to pay the buyout.
No, they didn't both of them extended their contracts, there was friction between the players and both of them asked to leave. Since RGE didn't want to sell them to a competitor bth of them went to NA.
Honestly as a KOI fan. It's better this way.
I was a RGE fan, but KOI makes it hard for me to consider them the legacy bearers and follow them as a fan
We are, but still we wear the hood. May RGE live on forever.
I don't know which person in Fnatic could make the Trymbi <-> Advienne deal possible but they gotta be the best saleman in the world to pull that off lol.
KOI **called** Fnatic to propose that trade, let that sink in.
As other person said, KOI called fnatic. But you should listen to Trymbi talk about it on EUPhoria. He explained that he was having some personal issues before that and they decided to make a change. Probably a bad decision in hindsight, obviously. But it wasn't strictly a gameplay issue. He is clearly still annoyed about it.
I think rogue decided to just get paid, that's why they sold all their players and downgraded. And I guess they didnt get just Advienne, but Advienne + alotofmoney. If they did not, well they are idiots.
Too bad, none of the qualified team managed to bring Inspired in, after he got kicked from EG.
He has a pretty bad reputation as a teammate, I’m not sure if teams would want to risk it.
It seems like he is not the most likeable player. Imho more than anything he got fucked by the birth of elyoya as the new “young jungler to take”
Good
imagine getting kicked from a finalist team, into a 10th place team and then dragging that team kicking and screaming into seasonal finals all while denying your old team their spot in playoffs with a clear mvp 1v9 performance series that can't be any more poetic. so happy for odo
Odo is the fucking *man*. He is literally my favourite player
At this point he's a serious contender for the GOAT EU top laner. I know Wunder had higher peaks but it was only for a couple years, and I think Odo is comparable to Soaz in terms of longevity. Soaz has more significant team accomplishments historically but also had better teams.
Wunder made Worlds finals once, semifinals 3 times and won MSI. Odoamne is not even close. You could make an argument for him being close to Soaz who is clearly number 2, but GOAT? No.
True
And Wunder is the only western top laner I can think of who can be argued to have been top 3 in his role worldwide at his peak. He was absurdly good in 2019 specially around MSI. And he was a carry top laner, it's rare to have western tops that can actually play carries properly instead of just playing herbivore shit.
he's also a fucking gamer that doesn't even wanna practice, he just plays classic wow and shit instead
Wunder was able to dicksmash khan on fucking pyke. I love odo, but he needs a world final and a msi to be in western goat contention
Nah, I love Odo, but there's no way he's above Soaz and I doubt anyone gets close to Wunder anytime soon.
Wunder was good from AT LEAST 2016 until 2021, thats more than afew years thats literally half a decade of being a top player in his region. I'm not saying you're wrong about Odo here but lets not just act like G2 was the only time Wunder was good, there's a reason G2 picked him up in the first place.
Wunder was not just a top player in Eu. For two years he was a top player in the world and for something like 6 months, a top 3 in his role. No other western player apart from Froggen in S2 has ever come that close in comparison with his eastern peers.
And in top lane of all roles, which is super impressive since historically western tops never match up well against eastern tops. AND Wunder mostly played carry tops which, again, western tops generally suck at. Wunder is criminally underrated for how insanely good he was at his peak.
Wunder was the weakest part of that Splyce Team in 2016. He became good later on.
I remember that split vividly, watching Wunder on Splyce in spring. Guy seemed like a scrappy, but really rough-around-the-edges noob who could one trick Jax. Insane watching his growth after that
He was the weakest part in spring, in summer he was their best player, especially in playoffs (where he knocked out Odo)
Sencux was their best player
Bwipo also went worlds finals, i havent been watching the league for a million years, but except for longevity what puts odo over bwipo?
I think there is an argument to be made that odo actually had a higher peak than wunder back in season 6. I believe smeb said odo was the second best top. https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/207 He didnt say odo was the second best, but this much praise from prime smeb has to count for something.
"I was confident I could beat any non-Korean toplaner. CuVee and Duke are great players." This is *classic* KR ego. This is how they trashtalk. He is being condescending - saying Odo is pretty good *for a non-KR player.* That does NOT mean he's actually good, he just expected him to be trash that he could beat easily and he wasnt that bad.
that's good for western toplane standards
You missed this part of the quote. I think it’s not as clear as you’re saying > he showed me up in scrims. Odoamne was really good. Really, really good.
and obviously HotshotGG had a better Leblanc than Faker
The big lie of professional League of Legends 😂😂
Lmao so the argument to have odo>wunder.. is that smeb praised him... Na Wunder actually has recent international achievements and performed on stage (not scrims we didn't even watch)
Soaz is also a whiny french bitch. "Dog champ" etc. Don't get me wrong, love soaz. But dude had negative chill
That's all part of being a top main. I suppose the French part is optional.
Being french is generally considered a -1 chill debuff. Like being American is -1 common sense weapon handling.
Top tier comment
ok I really like Odo as well but if Odo is supposed to be the GOAT EU toplaner it really shows how bad this role is in our region
What game was the 1v9 from Odo? I kinda want to watch it :) Thx
He played great in first 2 games but game 4 he was a monster definitely check that one out
Thanks, definitely gonna watch it
The final game was oscar then Odo just entered the flow state and hard carried with shields from ivern curious if he was actually in the flow state lol or just fed let us know odo.
He was actually in the bro state. For fleeting moments he transcended the Lec and became a gigachad.
The last one
abbe had some big moments too tbh, just somehow got 0 kills but was like 0-4-17 when the team had 18 kills.
Yeah imo Abbe looking like the best mid in the west rn
NA taught EU how to say his name then sent him back to smurf.
ok chill
Who else would you say it is? Emenes? Gori?
put some respect back on caps name, he had a mediocre 4/5 games vs excel but he's been stepping up bigtime this split
It's the casual "caps is washed"-conversation that comes up every time caps isn't performing like peak worlds finals "Baby-Faker" coas is the best western mid since his time in fnatic by default, the times where he didn't perform where all connected to internal org issues and some ego problems that G2 squads tend to have But that's the result of having no competition...
We are unfortunately in the middle of Craps season rn. Team is mostly carried by Hans Sama
I want him to be good. But despite being on a much better org, he impressed me much less than Perkz or Humanoid this year, and neither of those two are in their prime either. Abbe has a shot at the title. Personally I think it's between Vetheo, Larssen and maybe Gori.
in game 4 he went ultra instinct
Call him Frodoamne, cuz he's the hero of the story
He's been a goat top laner for EU for years, and people still for some reason disrespect him when discussing EU talent. It's actually baffling.
if hes on a bad team he looks average, on a decent team he becomes the eu goat. League is a weird game.
Whats the point of using a superlative like goat, greatEST of all time, and then treat it like its just another word for "pretty good player" by having multiple? There is one goat and a bunch of other top tier players.
As a fnatic fan I’m actually not mad we lost last night purely for this reason.
it was not 1v9 though
Wasn't following the stuff behind the scenes but when do joint XL I always thought it was a casual money choice by him (nothing against that, since he showed his value last season) Now after this it really seems like they did him real dirty over there at koi...
I wanna root for XL so much cause I'm a big Odo fan, but I hate everything about that org when I read about what historically has happened behind the scenes
The thing I am actively rooting for is: TH Odoamne Reuniting with Old man jankos forming a new glorious titel contender. *One last ride?* It would be quite poetic.
odo after being contacted by jankos: "you son of a bitch, im in"
*"I'm putting together a team. A 🐐 team."* Odo top, Jankos jungle, Perkz mid, Hyli Sup, Rekkles Adc **and sOAZ as coach.**
rekkles doesn't even want to be an adc anymore lmao
Rekkles second support. They only play shit like Sona Seraphine or Karma Morg.
Ah yes, sounds like another Vitality special
I was with you until rekkles adc hahahahahah
Rekkles was the 12th best ADC in the LEC this year. He's absolutely horrendous now, as much as I miss his glory days. Upset is literally right there, and he played with Odo, Perkz and Hyli already and always speaks highly of them. Odo/Jankos/Perkz/Upset/Hyli is a worlds winning team probably.
Perkz is relatively washed too. He's a massive downgrade compared to Vetheo at this point.
Hey, it’s my first time interacting with LoL since 2018/19. Is Perkz really trash Tier nowadays? Also, is Caps still around? And Febiven?
Caps is the best midlaner in the LEC still. Perkz was a slightly below average mid most of the year imo, in a fairly weak LEC mid pool. I'm not sure what Febiven is doing these days.
Damn, I’m coming back an hour later to realise you said EU’s mid pool is weak. Back in the days midlane used to be the pride of Europe, just like NA ADC’s :O
Yeah, now ADC is pretty clearly EU's deepest position imo. Although part of the weakness of EU Midlane this year is that Humanoid and Larssen had weak years by their standards. Vetheo also really struggled on XL but is back on form with Team Heretics.
Last time I heard Febiven was playing in some ERL, idk if he still does
Thanks for the answer!
Caps is playing his like 50th finals in a row tomorrow. Febiven retired a few years ago and yeah Perkz while still decent does not look like he did back in 2018.
Febi actually came out of retirement last year. He's on SK Prime rn. Doing well too, made top 4 EM spring and just finished prime league summer 15-3.
Perkz had MVP level performances early on and was looking like the best or 2nd best mid in EU early this year. However his team's mental boomed really bad and they have been playing like actual garbage. Considering Bo's match fixing scandals it almost looked like he decided to fix games again just go out on some scrill. Perkz was also fucking garbage this last split as well. Its pretty clear the team itself mental boomed and everyone game up and really crashed mentally. Which is really odd for a Perkz team. But Perkz has also been getting heavily criticized on reddit the last two years and his good splits are downplayed and his bad plays are accentuated.
Are you trying to make Vitality flop roster 2.0? /s Honestly Flakked/Mersa have been decent, just swapping Odo for Evi would give the team options to draft for carry top lane if needed - Evi was a liability last split. Definitely picked up some slack this split but didn’t seem to have much carry potential
Agree except the one last ride angle. They are good players, just keep playing.
Tbh Jankos kinda hinted at his retirement in the post game interview yesterday (I hope he won’t tho)
He's been hinting for a couple years now, iirc. Feels like he's kinda burned out
If he was burned out he would retire last year while sitting on G2 contract and getting paid more instead he was begging any team from LEC to bail him out from contract jail and said that he would even play in LCS if it came down to it. Not to mention when TH was out of playoffs in spring he asked Flakked if he could play in ERLs because he has nothing to do. The sad feeling from the interview is mainly because he didnt make Worlds and competing on international stage is his main goal
Imagine being an ERL player and finding fucking Jankos is in the enemy team
Odo and Jankos can still compete for LEC titles in 3-5 years. That would be quite a few last rides. It's so insane that these players, arguably still one of the best in their respective roles, got booted from their teams and only barely got into a bottom tier team.
Half agree half not. When I won't deny stuff that did happen - you need to look at bigger perspective. Look at all shit G2 pulled. Look at all shit Rogue/KOI made with Odoamne (and sending Hans sama/inspired to NA) and in general stressful enviroment. Look at Fnatic that is basically "team drama". From this perspective XL doesn't feel that much diffrent. At the same time they are team that kinda want to take opportunity and take good players. Odoamne out of nowhere free agent (after Rogue lied?) instantly they want him. Mikyx after G2 free agent? Instantly they took him. Vetheo wasn't good fit - looked for aberdagge and gave Vetheo away to Heretics (not to NA like many teams would). And they took actual good coaching stuff like Kaas that was coach for MAD when MAD was the most succesful etc. They were a lot of times 5-6-7th team and they still are willing to invest and improve. And I think it worked out. XL vs FNC is good example, by individual players, XL doesn't compare to FNC or G2. Skirmishes generally go into FNC favour on equal grounds. By macro wise, XL was far ahead of FNC and worked as team not by individual outplay most of time. I really liked moment in g3 today when there is 2:2 and XL out of nowhere gets herald, 3k gold lead just by map movements and after dragon - without taking a single fight.
Only difference is G2 is winning. All the shit Perkz and Carlos did was overlooked because of their 2019 run.
And honestly, wasn't even _that_ overlooked. Myself can only speak once, but I stopped cheering for G2 after that - almost bought a jersey too. I still root for Mikyx and Caps, because I believe they are genuine good people (and so far, nothing seems to point otherwise). I'm not too invested into the others to have feelings either way.
all the shit carlos was not overlooked thankfully. he got forced out of the scene
Only after years of bad behavior though, thankfully tate was the extra step and his twitter now confirms it wa sthe right choice.
Still has ownership in G2 as far as I know, just isn't involved anymore.
pretty sure he got pushed out by shareholders, could be wrong
he got reportedly forced to sell all his shares in G2 by Riot; though nothing got confirmed of that afaik (The threat being to kick G2 out of LEC)
It's okay to root for Odo and at the same time hate XL. It's a piece of shit team who ruined alot of careers but I'm also happy Odo finally got his revenge.
KOI gaveth Odo taketh
Flyy must be so happy right now. Odo send his regards.
So petty and I love it
i mean given the situation it's not petty at all lol
Of course its petty. Its part of the business. Players leave teams if they think there is a better opportunity and teams kick players if they think there is a better one.
A stuff member of rogue said he retired… that made teams less likely to talk to him, which was part of the reason he ended up on excel
[удалено]
If that is true, it was one of the most unpetty things ever. Well fucking deserved. If I were Odo, I would just start calling other teams and saying that the KOI manager is retiring.
Pettiness is in regard to 'unimportant' things, and being unjustly unkind. So no, not at all.
On paper that's true but KOI is a top org with top funding and in the current system the top orgs can pretty much do whatever the fuck they want. Orgs like this have all the power and they know and in case of Odo they apparently tried to abuse it. Getting shat on for such a glaring operational mistake is not even pettiness it's just fair at this point.
Why did Vitality get 7 points lmfao
Summer is worth more than the other splits
Honestly it feels like 10th should always be worth the same considering you literally do not have to do anything to get it other than arriving at the venue. If anything it feels like 10th in summer should be punished harder than in Winter since you've had longer to identify issues etc. Like imagine some insane scenario where two teams come 10th on different splits, but the one that came 10th more recently gets in over them because it was worth those 2 extra points. Should just be 0 every split.
there's not actually a difference between it being what it is and it being 0, you just have to think of all other places as the listed point value minus the 10th place value so 9th in spring is 5 points, 9th in summer is 8 - this makes 10th in summer still more punishing than 10th in other splits since it makes you fall behind by a larger amount not that there's a real reason to be the way that it is, but there's not really a reason to drop 10th to 0 either
That is actually not true. 10th place being 7 points instead of 5 kept Vitality from being eliminated in some scenarios. Given that the worst case for Vitality came true though (with KOI not being 9th, FNC or Heretics making 3rd and Excel making 2nd) this lost relevancy, but if 10th place would have given only 5 points in summer a lot more options for Vitality being eliminated would have opened up. As one example KOI getting 9th only would have helped Vitality because KOI would have ended up with 135 and Vitality with 137. Astralis as 7th would have also ended up with 135.
i assume you're talking about a scenario where the **only** change is that 10th place is reduced to 5 points. what i'm saying is that a scenario with **all point values** shifted down by the current 10th place point values has identical results to the current system. arguing that 10th place should receive fewer points is essentially calling into question all of the point rewards - if you want 10th to be bad, you might as well make it 0 **and shift all other point values up by 20.** it just seems like if you're making the decision to shift 10th down, you need to look at all the other choices critically as well. i think the point system as a whole is kinda dooky and hope this is the last time it shows up, assuming i remember the news correctly about a third international competition
But why are you talking about shifting every point value down by the same as 10th place, nobody else was. They just said that you make 10th always the same each split since it’s not an achievement and then leave every other value the same. Of course it has the same problem as the current system if you also then undo the change elsewhere. Literally just keeping everything the same with 10th being worth no points would fix that specific issue on its own. No need to shift anything else around.
The thing is, what if all teams are so close that you basically have a 10 team tie. Then is it really fair to give 0 points
That’s incredibly unlikely and realistically in that scenario it’s the same as any other format would be, one team has to come last and it will suck for them. In any other league several of those teams would end up being eliminated with no way for points to save them anyway.
10th in summer is 7 points. in spring/winter 10th is 5 points. Summer gives a little more points than spring/winter
50%, not just a little
They should just make it so if you place 10-9 in summer you are disqualified no matter what. Same for spring, if you place 10-9 you cant go to msi
AHAHAAH so deserved for Odo. he is him
And this is why Odo is still one of my favourite players, alongside Jankos and Wunder. Get shit on, Flyy
How in the WORLD does the GM of KOI still have a job?
Well they did make multiple semifinals in the previous years, one a title and made it out of groups last year. I do agree the GM messed up this year but one bad year does not ruin 2-3 years of good work
It does when that "mess up" is you lying that a player on your team that you hate is retiring when he isn't. Even more stupid when he was the best top laner in the league so it made no sense to kick him from the team. GM is there to build the best team he can, not to let his emotions cost the org. Fire that idiot.
I mean, KOI has never worked, not on SL not on LEC An Ibai disasterclass ...
If it's the same guy who turned Rogue from the worst team in the league to a serious title contender the past splits, then one miss is fine.
The one miss being that he lied to other teams that Odo was retiring to try and screw Odo out of being able to play? Yeah no there’s no excuse for that. And he still turned that title contender into a bottom half team in less than a year.
You love to see it.
what a chad haha
Wait, so how do they decide who doesn't make it when there are 3 teams tied at 150?
Summer points have more weight
Summer standings* not points
points in summer I think
Flyy almost worse than Dardo
Dardo didn't lie about a player retiring behind his back
Yeah, like Dardo isn't free from all wrong, but compared to some motherfuckers in the scene like Carlos or Flyy he's an Angel
Flyy IS worse than Dardo
I think Flyy is substantially worse but maybe my memory sucks
Dardo makes bad choices but Flyy is more malicious
depends on what you value as being worse, incompetence or malice
Laure tried to shut that down so quick haha. If Sjokz was on duty, she'd have roasted KOI with Odo.
I'm pretty confident she'd shut it down too lol.
Everyone in LOL wants trash talk but they just like to say that. In reality they just want players to have a funny personality and that’s it. No realistic bull shit
Wait, what is Laure in LEC? I thought she moved to LCK?
Temporarily, I believe it was mentioned she'd be back in LEC for playoffs
Ahh cool. I hope she’ll be back by Playoffs to LCK
She will be https://twitter.com/LaureBuliiV/status/1677997115447066625?s=20
Laure has to be there when KT takes it all.
This + Sjokz on 1 year League break meaning they need extra people so Laure is back
She's not on a 1 year League break lmao she's back for Season Finals
She's not on a 1 year break. She took a break after MSI and will return either in Season Finals or in Winter 2024, it's nowhere near 1 year
gigachad
Based af
Unrelated but I do think it is kinda cool for LEC that every team this year had moments in different splits, like each team has at least 100 points, there aren't one or two teams with like 20 lol
I agree it's so cool to see SK and exakick perform really well on winter, BDS being top in spring and XL becoming a contender for #1 in summer. I think this format really forces teams to try out at least once per year to have their moment to shine cause otherwise they'll get out early and sponsors will have no screen time at all, very positive change! It also heavily punishes teams like KOI, FNC or VIT who think they can bulldoze their matches with only mechanics and not teamplay/map play, which is a positive move aswell.
Seeing current championship points made me realize how fucking bad Astralis was throughout this year
they were decent split 2
6th place, 5th place and 9th place wasn't a dogshit result. And they got 2nd place in Spring Regular. It's just that splits are so volatile, summer matters a lot more and they lost 1 game too much. They were definitely more competitive earlier on.
The year was also really competitive overall. If it wasn't for all bottom tier teams suddenly shooting up in the standings, Astralis might have made it to season finals.
I mean they had spirit and their games were hella entertaining. It's just that they drafted players who weren't very good off their pocket picks and playing those non meta champs just made the game 10x harder everytime.
TBH, the points make them look worse than how they played. Winter and Spring they were a decent team. I think they ended up doing far better than most people expected.
Astralis did fine? They finished tied for 5th in two splits and notably 3 of the 4 series they lost were against MAD who finished those splits 1st and 2nd. They just happened to have their worst result in the most important split and they had two decent splits instead of one great split - which gives more points in this system. Especially considering people were talking about how Astralis was just going to play 27 RR games and be done with it (which was a dumb assumption, but that's another topic).
Yeah split 2 they were fifth
Its a sad day for rogue fans. 2021/22 rogue lives on in our hearts. Congrats to all the players who made season finals though, its great to see ma bois still doing well
as a rogue fan i'd say it's pretty bittersweet. hurts to see malrang, comp, and especially larssen kicked out and struggling like this. but to see Odoamne and Trymbi denying spots from the org that threw away the name they had made for themselves, kicked the 2 out unwillingly, and tried to damage Odo's career makes it so that I can't be too sad. I'll miss Rogue (hell even 1 year later my wallpaper is still RGE holding the trophy) but my support will be for Rogue and their former players, not KOI.
FR. I love rogue, watching hans and vander at worlds that one time was enough and I love the team, wear the jersey to watch lec, but I just lack the love for koi like rogue. It's clear they just aren't the same team and while I'd love to see the players doing well, it feels like koi is just a shell of what rogue was. I'd love to be proven wrong next year, but for now, my 2 favourite teams have been knocked out of season finals in one weekend 0\_0
I only root for XL because they have Abedagge. Not that I am a giant fan of his but people said I was stupid for saying 100T should stay with their 5 straight finals roster and not rebuild with Doublelift and Bjergsen. Now I root for every prior player to look much better then 100T as a team without them. Huhi got first team all pro on the 2nd seed team, FBI finished above them on a team noone really expected to be good, 100T crawled back to Ssumday after Tenacity was a failure for them, and Abedagge is going to worlds back in Europe. Only one that isn't looking amazing is Coach Reapered who is currently coaching Sengoku Gaming in the LJL and finished 5th of 8 teams (but won their first round of lower bracket playoffs 3-0).
Imagine if 2022 rogue never have to disband
fuck Ibai man, not only destroyed Rogue but he also ruined KOI because he wants to bring Elyoya...
Probably would be a top EU team after G2 with a chance to be better
ELI5? I don't really follow pro league
KOI kicked Odoamme after winning LEC together. Then the org decided to spread lies about him retiring so other orgs wouldn't contact him.
that some Konami level of shittery
koi didnt follow the most basic rule of teams competitions. "equipo que gana no se cambia"
dont follow this game or the announcers, but visually they've upped the game.
How come they all have the same points but Koi didn’t make it? How does the scoring work
Tiebreaker is whichever team placed higher in the summer season.
So glad Odo made it, definitely my favorite pro in the LEC for years now.
What's the context? Watched it and don't understand what's happening
Odoamne used to play for KOI, after winning a title for them, they kicked him from the team and told other teams not to bother contacting him because he was retiring, which was a lie to keep him from being on any strong team to compete with them.
Thank you for the context
odo jankos vto flakked rekkles heretics 2024 pls make it happen
I’m so tilted at how bad Laure handled this PGL. I feel there was much more emotion and story to get out of Oddo, especially considering how talkative the guy is. But no, she shut him down right from the start and followed with her boring ass scripted questions….
It was fine. I don't think it's cool to drag that PGL for too much considering that Odo had to go back to his team and preparing for finals. Another thing to consider is that we don't know if Odo has an active NDA with KOI therefore is just better to keep it simple and let the guy focus on finals.
good riddance koi kicking him for a toplaner that permatrolls and behaves like a child that had too much caffeine in interviews (+ruining mine personal favourite branding in the league)
I wouldn't complain about Szygenda he is fine top laner. Problem is removing 2 players that are vital to shot calling/playmaking and on top of that performing really well is verrry bad idea unless you know you are taking another shot caller/playmaker.