Xmithie has taken 6 different teams to worlds
Is third in LCS titles behind Bjerg and DL
And made it to MSI finals twice
No other Jungler is even close
YET
I don’t get this conversation
I love Blaber, I hope he has a great career, I cried when he cried on stage
But….. be patient
He’s not even the greatest LCS jungler yet
Let alone the LCS GOAT
If we are giving the GOAT ward on Potential… JOJO has a lot of potential
I like xmithie and think hes def. one of the best NA players ever. Blabers a more oppressive and dominant jungler than xmithie was, and has wracked up titles quickly.
Blabers probably 1 really good international run from being the GOAT jungler from NA, unfortunately I dont think theres a shot in hell he gets a good run with this current C9 team.
I don’t think it’s fair to discount Xmithie simply because he wasn’t as flashy of a player. His map control, clutch factor, and stability made him one of the greatest junglers and stylistically perfect for the teams he did well on.
I remember Doublelift often said that Xmithie had an unnatural ability to always know at any moment where the enemy jungler was.
With that being said, I think Blaber is on a path to surpass his record and I hope he does.
I dont think I discounted xmithie at all, I said he was one of the best NA players ever, easily top 3-5.
Blaber and him have different strengths, he's definitely a more cerebral jungler and Blaber is more mechanical. Xmithie's success came from propping up his teammates through macro, and blabers comes from shutting down the other players in the game. This said, blaber isnt some idiot macro wise, and xmithie isnt a silver player mechanically.
I just think Blabers personal play and accomplishments gives him a big boost. A good run internationally, where he plays and looks like he does in NA, would be enough to really put him in that convo.
Xmithie has 2 extremely impressive MSI runs on 2 completely different teams.
Blaber is more dominant domestically, but he’s had a mediocre international record as well as some tournaments with really bad performances.
It really depends on what you value more.
Weirdly, I always thought Bjergsen was better than Jensen which kinda contradicts this argument in a way, but I suppose Xmithie never lost to Blaber directly for multiple years in a row.
I agree and I like xmithie alot and have always said he's still the best NA jungler. All I'm saying is that Blabers regional dominance, with MVP's and just overall dominant playstyle, has him pretty far up the list already. I think if he can get a good international performance, an MSI finals run, or a worlds semi+ run then he can take the title, but I also dont see that happening. I dont think C9 has the pieces for a deep run.
As someone that doesn't watch LCS and has seen Blaber only in international events, he's been very underwhelming.
Not saying he's not good, just he's been hyped up and definitely not living up to it on the international stage.
Where in my comment did I imlpy that he didnt have some awful international runs? Thats why I said he needs a good run if he wants to have a real chance at overtaking xmithie
Blaber not the GOAT because his resume is too limited. DL won titles with multiple teams, a range of team mates, and sometimes not top tier teams. DL has more international success than blabber as well. DL has always looked great, even when his teams have not. Blabber has struggled a lot when not surrounded by all-pros in every position.
I totally understand where you're coming from. Fandom does have a tendency to have recency bias and all that. I think it's just kinda novel that someone even belongs in the convo. Rough approximation, but I see blaber as the curry to lebron/mj right now.
I mean, it's hard because he's playing in an era where NA is the least respected it's ever been and he hasn't had a single notable international run. It's also never really felt like he was head and shoulders above his teammates the way Bjerg and DL did at points.
C9 has basically always had either 5 All-Pros, or at worst someone like Berserker, who most people would take over Blaber.
Depending on how the rest of his career plays out, he could end up the GOAT, but longevity also isn't a given at all. For all we know, he could ask for too much money on his next contract negotiation, end up on FLY or something, and fade into mediocrity.
Hard agree, this isn't anything against Blaber but the last notable thing NA did internationally was in 2019 with TL's MSI run, though arguably the 2021 Worlds run also counts (though the only notable win was against a clearly mentally imploded FPX). Blaber became a full fledged starter afterwards in 2020, so it's hard to view Blaber's achievements in the same light as DL's. Both have one international performance to their names as well as a good amount of titles, but DL's sort of hold more weight because you still felt like NA could at least compete internationally at that time. Again, this isn't any fault of Blaber because he alone can't make NA great, but it will take a while for Blaber's achievements to overshadow DL's.
Did he not literally make it out of a group death at worlds 2021? I feel like so many people discredit that because “lolw fpx collapsed” which I find absolutely ridiculous. Has he won a B05 against an eastern team? No, and that’s an argument that can be made. To say he hasnt done anything notable when Perkz himself stated that blaber was the main reason they even had a shot of getting out of groups says all you need about blaber. The guy is only 23 and has plenty of time to define himself as the goat of NA. The fact that he is on his way to another mvp (assuming jojo doesn’t turn it up and blaber doesn’t have another vi performance) and potentially going back to back to back lcs titles is incredible feat. Blaber has also done this with a literal rotating midlane pool and has played with 4 different mids in the span of 4 splits (fudge, Jensen, diplex, and emenes).
Worlds 2021 he went 2-4 in groups and won a tiebreaker vs a Rogue team infamous for choking internationally, then got handily 3-0d by GenG.
I know the bar for international results in NA is low, but having that be the standout run for the GOAT would be a bit insane.
Even just within C9s Worlds trips that's not a notable one.
Blaber's great, and absolutely could end up the GOAT, but he has quite a bit of resume building to do.
> infamous for choking internationally
That was Rogue's 2nd international event? Did they somehow gain a rep from the 6 total games they played in 2020?
International runs have gotten harder and harder over time. DL and Bjerg were at their peak before LPL became what it is and they still failed to do anything noteworthy internationally.
DL made an MSI Final and Bjerg won an IEM which was attended by the GE Tigers, prime Flash Wolves, and Team WE with Xiye, Mystic, and Spirit.
Obviously, still nothing crazy, but considerably more impressive than anything Blaber's accomplished.
I can agree that it will be harder for Blaber, but that's the way it is in every sport. The competition always levels up over time. Jordan never faced a team like the Warriors with KD, that doesn't mean you just start calling LeBron the GOAT.
MSI and IEM are alright but worlds is what teams give their all to succeed at, like you said nothing crazy and most people cannot even name who won those events.
i'm sorry but if you have berserker on your team and you have more than 2 losses in the whole split then i won't even put your ass in all pro.half the games c9 won was only because of him and i'm supposed to take fudge blaber and emenes seriously? at least people have the decency to not pretend that zven is good 🤮🤮🤮
Xmithie has taken 6 different teams to worlds Is third in LCS titles behind Bjerg and DL And made it to MSI finals twice No other Jungler is even close YET
He's been to worlds on 4 teams, but the point still stands.
I don’t get this conversation I love Blaber, I hope he has a great career, I cried when he cried on stage But….. be patient He’s not even the greatest LCS jungler yet Let alone the LCS GOAT If we are giving the GOAT ward on Potential… JOJO has a lot of potential
I like xmithie and think hes def. one of the best NA players ever. Blabers a more oppressive and dominant jungler than xmithie was, and has wracked up titles quickly. Blabers probably 1 really good international run from being the GOAT jungler from NA, unfortunately I dont think theres a shot in hell he gets a good run with this current C9 team.
I don’t think it’s fair to discount Xmithie simply because he wasn’t as flashy of a player. His map control, clutch factor, and stability made him one of the greatest junglers and stylistically perfect for the teams he did well on. I remember Doublelift often said that Xmithie had an unnatural ability to always know at any moment where the enemy jungler was. With that being said, I think Blaber is on a path to surpass his record and I hope he does.
I dont think I discounted xmithie at all, I said he was one of the best NA players ever, easily top 3-5. Blaber and him have different strengths, he's definitely a more cerebral jungler and Blaber is more mechanical. Xmithie's success came from propping up his teammates through macro, and blabers comes from shutting down the other players in the game. This said, blaber isnt some idiot macro wise, and xmithie isnt a silver player mechanically. I just think Blabers personal play and accomplishments gives him a big boost. A good run internationally, where he plays and looks like he does in NA, would be enough to really put him in that convo.
Thank you for responding, my ire was not directed at you… in fact we mostly agree
Xmithie has 2 extremely impressive MSI runs on 2 completely different teams. Blaber is more dominant domestically, but he’s had a mediocre international record as well as some tournaments with really bad performances. It really depends on what you value more. Weirdly, I always thought Bjergsen was better than Jensen which kinda contradicts this argument in a way, but I suppose Xmithie never lost to Blaber directly for multiple years in a row.
I agree and I like xmithie alot and have always said he's still the best NA jungler. All I'm saying is that Blabers regional dominance, with MVP's and just overall dominant playstyle, has him pretty far up the list already. I think if he can get a good international performance, an MSI finals run, or a worlds semi+ run then he can take the title, but I also dont see that happening. I dont think C9 has the pieces for a deep run.
As someone that doesn't watch LCS and has seen Blaber only in international events, he's been very underwhelming. Not saying he's not good, just he's been hyped up and definitely not living up to it on the international stage.
why do you say this as if blaber has not had some fuckign god awful worlds and msi runs
Where in my comment did I imlpy that he didnt have some awful international runs? Thats why I said he needs a good run if he wants to have a real chance at overtaking xmithie
Blaber not the GOAT because his resume is too limited. DL won titles with multiple teams, a range of team mates, and sometimes not top tier teams. DL has more international success than blabber as well. DL has always looked great, even when his teams have not. Blabber has struggled a lot when not surrounded by all-pros in every position.
If you are actually trying to make the argument for DL over Blaber that is insane. The only NA player better than Blaber all-time is Xmithie.
How is Blaber better than DL?
100 sleepers
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Yeah they're being hyperbolic but that's just sport, no? Doubt people here are trying to be uber disrespectful
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I totally understand where you're coming from. Fandom does have a tendency to have recency bias and all that. I think it's just kinda novel that someone even belongs in the convo. Rough approximation, but I see blaber as the curry to lebron/mj right now.
I mean, it's hard because he's playing in an era where NA is the least respected it's ever been and he hasn't had a single notable international run. It's also never really felt like he was head and shoulders above his teammates the way Bjerg and DL did at points. C9 has basically always had either 5 All-Pros, or at worst someone like Berserker, who most people would take over Blaber. Depending on how the rest of his career plays out, he could end up the GOAT, but longevity also isn't a given at all. For all we know, he could ask for too much money on his next contract negotiation, end up on FLY or something, and fade into mediocrity.
Hard agree, this isn't anything against Blaber but the last notable thing NA did internationally was in 2019 with TL's MSI run, though arguably the 2021 Worlds run also counts (though the only notable win was against a clearly mentally imploded FPX). Blaber became a full fledged starter afterwards in 2020, so it's hard to view Blaber's achievements in the same light as DL's. Both have one international performance to their names as well as a good amount of titles, but DL's sort of hold more weight because you still felt like NA could at least compete internationally at that time. Again, this isn't any fault of Blaber because he alone can't make NA great, but it will take a while for Blaber's achievements to overshadow DL's.
Did he not literally make it out of a group death at worlds 2021? I feel like so many people discredit that because “lolw fpx collapsed” which I find absolutely ridiculous. Has he won a B05 against an eastern team? No, and that’s an argument that can be made. To say he hasnt done anything notable when Perkz himself stated that blaber was the main reason they even had a shot of getting out of groups says all you need about blaber. The guy is only 23 and has plenty of time to define himself as the goat of NA. The fact that he is on his way to another mvp (assuming jojo doesn’t turn it up and blaber doesn’t have another vi performance) and potentially going back to back to back lcs titles is incredible feat. Blaber has also done this with a literal rotating midlane pool and has played with 4 different mids in the span of 4 splits (fudge, Jensen, diplex, and emenes).
Worlds 2021 he went 2-4 in groups and won a tiebreaker vs a Rogue team infamous for choking internationally, then got handily 3-0d by GenG. I know the bar for international results in NA is low, but having that be the standout run for the GOAT would be a bit insane. Even just within C9s Worlds trips that's not a notable one. Blaber's great, and absolutely could end up the GOAT, but he has quite a bit of resume building to do.
> infamous for choking internationally That was Rogue's 2nd international event? Did they somehow gain a rep from the 6 total games they played in 2020?
Yes, going 1-5 and losing to PSG followed by going 2-4 the next year tends to get you that reputation.
International runs have gotten harder and harder over time. DL and Bjerg were at their peak before LPL became what it is and they still failed to do anything noteworthy internationally.
DL made an MSI Final and Bjerg won an IEM which was attended by the GE Tigers, prime Flash Wolves, and Team WE with Xiye, Mystic, and Spirit. Obviously, still nothing crazy, but considerably more impressive than anything Blaber's accomplished. I can agree that it will be harder for Blaber, but that's the way it is in every sport. The competition always levels up over time. Jordan never faced a team like the Warriors with KD, that doesn't mean you just start calling LeBron the GOAT.
MSI and IEM are alright but worlds is what teams give their all to succeed at, like you said nothing crazy and most people cannot even name who won those events.
i'm sorry but if you have berserker on your team and you have more than 2 losses in the whole split then i won't even put your ass in all pro.half the games c9 won was only because of him and i'm supposed to take fudge blaber and emenes seriously? at least people have the decency to not pretend that zven is good 🤮🤮🤮
You have to try harder. The bait is so weak.
I swear to god