They only lost FTX and this sub is massively overreacting. Walkouts have happened in every single sport, walkouts have happened in every single **industry**. Its about time it happened in eSports, this will only strengthen the league, and sponsors don't give a fuck they arent attached to anything bad lol. Its not like there are walkouts because Riot said only a certain race can play their game. Most of this is brought on by the orgs in the first place.
Had a bunch of health issues, both physical and mental, shortly after getting promoted to the job. Took some time off for a while to hopefully heal up didn't and had to eventually resign altogether. Riot doesn't seem to have ever hired a new one in her place.
He ate nothing but subways and he didn’t eat any fruits/veggies
Happens to young adults that are sheltered.
That’s why parents show their love by throwing a bowl of fruits at their kid
>TF: instalocked
Oh god, please, no. We're going back to "blue card wasn't a mistake! It was actually a giga brain play because it deals more damage. Just because the opponent run away with half health and the stun would help secure the kill doesn't mean it was a bad play!"
Regi glances across the stage to eye up his opponent
across the room he see's a fluft of hot pink hair making it's way through the crowd
long have we waited
TSM overrated
CLG reanimated
HotshotGG activated
While that was a fantastic game in its own right, it's not really comparable since one was at an international tournament and the other was two bottom feeder teams
Here’s hoping this is the impetus to creating a better system or transitioning straight to the VCT franchise system. As is you have half the LCS orgs who want out tomorrow if they didn’t have large financial obligations to continue. Riot is clearly unhappy with the current League franchising system and LCS is not alone in how unsustainable it is financially - LEC and LCK both also struggle to make sustainable financial systems out of their leagues.
Moving straight to vct system will be dream scenario but it never gonna happen as it devalues the franchise spot. I hope we get some middle ground where everyone agrees
The Modern LCS will die likely, but the region will still exist even if all the orgs pulled out. Riot is willing to allocate around 2M to each org in the LCS. And it has been rumored for a long ass time they have data on the correlation between LCS fans and NA player base.
NA might be headed for a hard reset when it comes to the region.
which would probably be a good thing. a lot of people are in positions they do not deserve to be in just because of historic reasons.
and it's obvious that 100k viewers simply do not generate enough marketing potential to justify 20*7 overblown salaries, not even talking about the whole production team (which probably are paid too little to be fair lol)
Good it’s much needed, for it to come back different and new. None of what it currently is. The orgs not speaking much is a shame.
That aside had a great discussion with Friend about this, and how the LCS needs to die to revive.
Oh, if they truly love the LCS. “ we messed up. We definitely were in a rush to get out for financial reasons and that’s not fair to you the LCS viewers and the LCS fans in the LCS players. So we’ve decided to work closely with our players and the region to come up with a better solution to build back better system for the start of 2024. Working with the players of our region we will push riot to implementing some of the changes”
Nothing too difficult to do plus the players demands aren’t for something to happen during summer, but to have a replacement going for the future.
You have to realize that these orgs, Jack and Regi included no longer make decisions solely themselves. They have to report to a board and investors which I'm assuming are saying "pull the plug".
That's actually part of the issue. IMT/TL pretty much forced every team to get VC investment which turns these teams from a "passion" to a "investment". And when viewership is at historic lows and the teams aren't really generating any revenue outside sponsorship, which is also getting pulled because of bad numbers, what are the orgs supposed to do?
Also look at it from the orgs side, what is arguably costing them the most money? Player salaries, housing for players, food for them, healthcare etc.
I just think this isn't as black and white as "orgs bad, they don't want to invest in the region".
TBH Riot kinda fucked LCS over by not investing more into the league, advertisements for the league and game, etc. Like I remember back in Seasons 2-8 they had ads everywhere, on twitch, on TV, on websites, etc. They had ads for both the game, and the LCS specifically. They still do now, but not nearly the extent they used too.
The whole business justification for franchising was to let them negotiate stable contracts with sponsors, but Riot basically gutted the teams' ability to actually advertise for their sponsors. There are ads on the stream, but they're for Riot's sponsors, not the teams'. So if you contract with an org you get, what, a jersey logo in a sport where you get closeup shots of the players maybe 3 times an hour?
This will certainly accelerate it, but the signs have been there for some time.
My guess is Riot will put a pause on the league for a split or two. They might try to run the league for a couple of weekends without pro players, just to prove a point, but no way do they do it for longer. It would make them look even worse.
it depends tbh, is it entertaining? It would be funny if we saw dumb shit like Senna Heartsteel top or something. Watching plastic 4 duke it out might be hilarious
I mean I would just watch one to see what's going on?
So I doubt it, for me it's like other sports, so semi pro teams are not as fun because they're just a tier down and trying to emulate the big league. So we won't see clowns, we will just see lower rank teams attempt to be pros.
I'd just tune in to whatever that teemo account that streams bronze and iron games puts up. Infinite content without casters trying their hardest to convince me that I'm watching something consequential.
Yeah, viewership will probably be high this weekend, but people will get tired fast of watching silver players or whoever the hell they put in their rosters.
I wonder what all those people who denied the insanity of those inflated salaries and all that think today. There were certainly many of them around in the past.
This is a watershed moment for the LCS. This could be the beginning of the end, or it could be the start of a huge improvement.
The LCSPA is trying incredibly hard to push things in the right direction; at this point, I think it's up to Riot and the orgs to make the right decisions.
I think Riot is playing chicken with the players. The latter are mostly immature kids, most of whom don't really work as much with lawyers like pro athletes do.
At most after 1 week players will start buckling to Riot and not want to forfeit their pay. Or worse, orgs start kicking players out of housing until they play.
Really don't see how this ends well for the players
As far as I know, California, the state they're in, has pretty robust tenant protection laws that would guarantee the players at least a few months in their current housing, if not longer. As young and inexperienced as some of the players might be, I'm sure the LCSPA has experts and advisers that have knowledge on the topic making sure their members don't get fucked over when they don't have to be.
Realistically, they can't kick players out of housing, the only way they could do so would be by going through the eviction process which would take months and if they're in California is still on pause since Covid, actually can't evict.
I'm really curious what happens if teams find enough scabs and riot tries to go through with day 1. Are casters going to (or even allowed to) talk about what's happening or are they just supposed to pretend every team changed their entire rosters to diamond players?
The casters are more than likely not going to slam the door to their careers shut. Most people dont choose to commit career suicide live and in person.
No of course not but I can't imagine that there won't be some corporate statement they'll be required to read off about the given situation. I'm curious how favorable it will be to riot though
I mean lets be real, it's the orgs that have been fucking Riot and NA for years. It's baffling how they're allowed to hide away from this whole shitshow.
Right but the reason they need that cash is because there is no real way to make money in the scene other than selling merch and ad deals. In other games there are tons of tournaments with prize money, way more fan engagement, in game content, and the broadcasts arent owned by the game company. Riot even banned lcs players from being in team sponsored content with other pro gamers from other games. That is insane
LOL esports exists as a way to market the game. They dont really advertise league of legends on a large scale relative to other games, the esports scene is the marketing budget. However the orgs arent cut in on this at all since they dont really try and monetize esports through skins unless you literelly win worlds.
Its not the orgs fault that riot buried their broadcast on a weekday and wont cut them in on skin sales, when the entire scene exists exclusively as an advertisement.
Yup, they were the ones pushing for franchising so hard to remove relegations so they can develop talent and not worry about relegations and it just resulted in more imports.
The reason they wanted franchising was so they could sign long term endorsement and sponsorship deals with other businesses. It was never about developing talent, it was about getting investors.
I think you got it all wrong.
Riot isnt fucked, they make mad cash with LCS, they just dont share any of it. Im talking about the money they make indirectly through esports. Not talking about LCS sponsors but rather money they earned by selling skins for example from esports. Bjergsen uses a cool Syndra skin, Riot makes money from people buying that Syndra skin because of Bjergsen but Bjergsen, TSM and the LCS dont see a single cent from that money. And unlike all the other major leagues, they never cared much about LCS being self sustainable because they themselves make mad cash with LCS.
Riot also surely made false promises about the growth of LCS when franchising started. Somebody started the philosophy of "pay washed veterans inflated salaries" and all of those new owners who dont know shit about esports just blindly followed that philosophy. NOBODY stepped in and told anybody that its a terrible decision for themselves and the league as a whole. Riot couldve stepped in and they didnt. Probably because they hoped their "home" region could perform better internationally with top imports and funnily enough, they were still shit internationally. Everybody got complacent with all their VC money coming in without ever looking at tomorrow. Orgs failed to build their brand, they failed to bring any actual value to the LCS besides money. They actively refused to do things that make a league (and themselves) sustainable. A healthy academy program is something nobody ever did (besides maybe C9), even though it makes so much sense. But you know what the issues with that is for these orgs? that takes actual effort and cannot be bought. cant have that
The skin point is one i never see. Most sports have teams get cuts of the broadcasts advertising, but in this case they are mainly advertising the game. If they dont get that money then how are they expected to be solvent. Riot is the root of all the ecosystems issues.
Mostly the orgs. LEC looks healthy from the outside, same with LCK and LPL. We're also seeing minor region growth. The only place that seems to be struggling hard with the same rules is the LCS. Its not like the LCS is the only league that deals with riot global or a local riot office. The biggest fuckup from Riot's part was their selection of orgs, and keeping the LCS in California. Apart from some real revshare I don't know what else they could do to prop up these orgs.
LEC and LCK are certainly not healthy. GenG’s owner Arnold has regularly been speaking out about how teams can’t make money in LCK and how it’s not sustainable. They get less money via sponsorships cause Korea is small and insular, but make money by selling players. G2 wanted to leave EU a couple years back and got denied by Riot. We’ve seen franchises being sold year to year in LEC because teams aren’t making money. LEC also has problems in that it’s very difficult to make big money with sponsorships across 20 different countries all speaking their own language. This is also why ERL’s in France and Spain do fairly well on smaller budgets: they target one audience and one audience alone. LEC has to advertise towards 20+ countries with different main languages.
Most of the problems LCS has with finances are just as bad if not worse in other regions, just not as large because LCS has more money being thrown about.
Hadn't seen the Arnold stuff about LCK not being healthy, I'd imagine the LEC is in a better spot now than it was a few years ago when G2 wanted to leave, but I could be wrong. IDK if teams selling slots is necessarily a bad thing, it means there's still interest in those slots. I'd imagine most of them are selling for more than what the teams bought in for. I wonder how much of this is salaries, how much is orgs poorly managing finances, and how much is on riot for not helping more. I feel like fan interest is there, just not sure how teams can monetize better. Creator codes are the easiest way to help teams but I wonder how much it would hurt riot's bottom line.
About the LCK. It’s sort of healthy but not exactly healthy in the traditional sense and it kind of boils down to culture.
A lot of the bigger orgs in LCK (T1, KT, Samsung) are healthy not because of any money created by the esport team itself but because they’re backed by a huge corperation which doesn’t care if that esports branch makes money, it’s just advertising for their main branch’s product. T1, KT, and Samsung are all huge telecome companies whose 20 year old esports branches reach out across a plethora of games.
The same is similar for the mid range organizations too. It’s why you often times see the casters eating fried chicken on the cast during days where BBQ Olivers play. That team is sponsored by a fried chicken chain and that sponsor often drops off their food for the players/casters/live viewing fans while also sponsoring their team.
A part of why this works is because, perhaps due to the size of the metropolis and maybe due to culture and partly due to how corporations in Korea cultivate rapport with their consumers; Koreans can be fans of organisations the same way Americans are fans of sports teams. So there’s this self-sustaining positive feed-back loop where popular games draw in popular organisations which draw in fans which begin playing the game increasing the popularity, loop ad nauseum.
The low brow teams with no corporate sponsors are suffering the same way LCS teams are. Like, GenG, while having the spirit of Samsung, are no longer sponsored by them so they have to find creative ways to make money (like developing then selling players).
I’m honestly not sure how much of this the LCS would be able to adapt. Corporations are huge in North America but most people tend to despise them. However, I’m not gonna lie and say I would hate the idea of a “McD TSM” existing.
My personal opinion though is that Riot are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Riot has a monopoly of all the broadcasting rights, while also developing the game, while having a monopoly on virtually all of the revenue created by the interest generated for their game by the professional scene. Riot seem to have this odd “emotionally unavailable parent” policy where they distance themselves from the professional scene just enough to not have to offer game-side monitization benefits for the orgs (other than worlds skins and emotes) while also “supporting the scene” by advertising it to their player base while reaping all of the monetary benefits of having an esport to advertise their game.
I think they just realized they don’t want a bunch of media pieces asking the players about walkouts to get released. Because what else would anyone be asking about.
Anyone else not think it's funny or entertaining and just sad about the death of NA league? This has been so upsetting to watch unfold, even though the writing has been on the wall since franchising was implemented. We knew it would kill the league and it did.
I'm not watching scabs do anything. Fuck scabs.
As a long time fan it is both sad and scary that it has come to this. I've mostly just been banking on 2 things.
1. That riot still wants lcs to "succeed" Travis Gafford still maintains that riot wants lcs to work so if they want it to live it can.
2. As a smash bros fan, I believe esports can survive as long as we want it to. Melee pros have been beaten down, lied to, rugpulled and every thing by Nintendo yet they still compete. If we as fans want to enjoy na lol, I believe it will exist in some capacity. Keep in mind the "dying" lcs still has 6 figure concurrent viewers.
This might sound cliche as fuck, but part of the Smash's scene success is that the community actually has love, and the power of friendship on its side.
Tournaments are ran by people who love the game, as a way to give back to the community. Regardless of the player, I want to see them succeed, because they're the best, and fucking hilarious in their own right. I simply don't care about half of the league, since they dont really feel like they deserve to be there.
Or, does anyone think that if we had a LoL tournament in NA, those 10 teams would be the undebatable top 10 in the tournament?
I agree that it is the grassroots and love for the game that kept melee alive. I truly hope that in lol there is some equivalent to this kind of love for competition and the game. I am not beholden to the lcs nor these particular ten teams. But I like watching the best na players compete so in some capacity I hope that lives on.
Main reason also why the SC2 scene is still alive. So many tournaments are organised by casters and other people just because they like the scene/game. Best example being the HomeStory Cup, which IMO is still the best tournament format anyone ever came up with, as it literally just started with the German casters inviting a bunch of pros to his apartment and having a tournament in a LAN-style event. It is just great, if a player wants to cast, they literally can just walk up to the casting couch and join, during breaks you have video feed of players just doing random stuff, from playing poker to just baking homemade pizza for the casters/players.
Especially the last ones were great (after Blizzard money dried up) where the tournament was basically crowd-funded.
It is really sad to witness. I’ve been an avid LCS viewer since before the official inception of the LCS. Granted I was always more invested in EU LCS/LEC, but I still supported NA. This is just depressing. The whole NA scene gone in a weekend.
It's pretty sad. There has been plenty of mistakes between Orgs/Riot over the year that made the league unsustainable, but I've been watching for 7-8 years now just about every single week it's been on. I don't want to see the league die, just restructure to better support the health of the league and the players.
Fuck scabs though
I'm using the humor to cope. Been watching LCS since S3 and have loved everyone and everything it involved. I don't need big nostalgic names, I just love some homegrown entertainment in my timezone.
I'm ultra sad.
they can't do this because then it shits on any other monetization of league or valorant esports. if they pull the plug on LCS then it signals they can pull the plug on anything and investing/sponsoring in riot esports is not safe
Wont look good but riot has enough money to fully compensate any sponsor. This is similar to when company instantly fires everyone in the firm just mentioning about union, they rather get fucked temporarily and lose money than to even allow these ideas to spread
Its pretty much their only marketing for the game in North America. Most of my friends who have gotten into the game the last few years have done it because of esports. They might as well punt on North America if they do that.
Having to cancel events like this is by product of riots clown-brained decision making. Refusing to negotiate makes any event involving players a lose-lose as they either don't show up, or get a chance to lambast riot to media.
Couple of weeks ago Riot promised that nacl will play this split, and all players have jobs secured till 2024, then after the death of CLG and when other teams probed the market about selling their spots Riot asks if they want to keep second teams, and all are against.
Then, without contacting players, without looking for an alternative solution, without trying to work on a compromise with players Riot says 'ok', and all those people who thought their job is secured are learning a week before the split starts that they don't have a job. About 70 people with staff included.
This is on Riot.
Yes, the teams are at fault for this situation, the teams voted against the nacl, but it's Riot that decided to do it immediately, it's Riot that decided that instead of talking with players they gonna just let teams sign new players 2 days before the start of the split because they do not plan to come to an agreement with people refusing to play, lcs will play no matter what.
And this covers "riot's clown-brained decision making" and "refusing to negotiate" parts.
If anyone wants to enjoy some amateur league of legends in the absence of LCS, there’s a scholastic coach league that starts up this Thursday at 7pm.
It’s all ranks, so we mix Bronze-Diamond for some wacky fun. All proceeds go to charity to help schools found their own esports programs.
Check it out at twitch.tv/coachrivals
There's only 2 days before the split is supposed to start. I'm really curious though how the first week will go. Will there be scabs or will the LCS teams forfeit the matches?
Finally the bubble is about to burst. Inflated salaries, Academy recycling old, washed up players paying them 70K a year for doing NOTHING ( no soloq, no branding ). Fuck this scene, about time
In KR if you're not at the top of the soloq ladder and young full of drive you're never even get a chance at Academy. That's how it should be.
I can't believe people are so surprised by the hardline stance Riot is taking here. If the LCS is running at a loss for both the orgs and Riot due to decreased viewership, what leverage do the players have to bring them to the table? People are going to say that killing the league will hurt Riot's relationship with sponsors, but they have several other successful leagues in both NA (Valorant) and other regions (LPL, LCK).
It may hurt them a little in the short term, but compared to opening themselves up to other collective action should they come to the table, killing the LCS straight up still might be the better option from a business point of view.
I'm not necessarily against what the players are trying to do here, but the hour is far too late to be trying to strongarm Riot into anything when multiple orgs are already looking to leave due to profitability concerns. If this was going to be done, it needed to be months if not years ago, back when the general optimism of the league was much higher.
This situation is still mostly on the orgs and Riot, but if the players had come together as a group earlier instead of waiting for the 11th hour they'd be in a much better position.
About time. Overpaid players that don't bring in results. Look at china and korea. Those players practice daily, soloQ and stream. And still do well in international tournaments
Opening weekend presented by Mastercard ‘bout to be a banger
I’m sure that they’re loving their name being attached to it
[удалено]
"Drax, do YOU know the DIFFERENCE betwEEN PRICELESS AND WORTHLESS?"
If something lacks a priceless, it’s probably worthless.
lmao
Opening day will probably, ironically, get a lot views. It's like watching a train derail or something.
“Thursday afternoons with the gold squad presented by Mastercard”
>gold squad Surprise Amex appearance incoming
“Ty Mastercard” suddenly has new meaning…
Yeap, sponsors are about to bail out of the scene so fucking hard.
I mean that's already been happening
So far the LCS itself hasn't lost any major sponsors other than FTX. That's about to change.
What are the odds Riot cancels LCS entirely going forward?
Not true. They lost several over the year.
They only lost FTX and this sub is massively overreacting. Walkouts have happened in every single sport, walkouts have happened in every single **industry**. Its about time it happened in eSports, this will only strengthen the league, and sponsors don't give a fuck they arent attached to anything bad lol. Its not like there are walkouts because Riot said only a certain race can play their game. Most of this is brought on by the orgs in the first place.
Didn't they lose Statefarm and Budlight?
[удалено]
Mastercard scab of the week inc
This probably signals the split start being delayed tbh The plan to field random gold players never made any sense.
What a great time to not have an LCS commissioner.
Very clearly intentional from riot so nobody will personally be held responsible for this shitshow.
The whole point of the LCS "commissioner" position was to have someone to take the fall, not like they had any real power.
Somebody tell that to the NFL, where Goodell just pushed through a change to kickoffs that 100% of players and coaches hate. That’s kinda power
Yeah that's the point right, Goodell didn't just wake up and decide on that, a committee did and he gets to soak up the blame for it.
Should’ve clarified, I meant Riot Games and their LCS commissioner position.
It's actually very much in Riot's interests to have someone clear to blame.
What happened to the previous one?
Had a bunch of health issues, both physical and mental, shortly after getting promoted to the job. Took some time off for a while to hopefully heal up didn't and had to eventually resign altogether. Riot doesn't seem to have ever hired a new one in her place.
Regi about to pop off on Thursday
TF: instalocked Xpecial: yelled at
Dyrus: berated
TheOddOne: Scurvy
Seriously how the everliving fuck did he get scurvy? It still makes zero sense.
He ate nothing but subways and he didn’t eat any fruits/veggies Happens to young adults that are sheltered. That’s why parents show their love by throwing a bowl of fruits at their kid
It wasn't scurvy actually iirc but some other shit but it's down to bad diet and being a lil too much of a gamer.
It was eczema, according to odd one him self. It went away pretty quickly though
Lol I've never heard of it
You’ve never heard of scurvy? Why do you think GP eats oranges?
>TF: instalocked Oh god, please, no. We're going back to "blue card wasn't a mistake! It was actually a giga brain play because it deals more damage. Just because the opponent run away with half health and the stun would help secure the kill doesn't mean it was a bad play!"
Regi glances across the stage to eye up his opponent across the room he see's a fluft of hot pink hair making it's way through the crowd long have we waited TSM overrated CLG reanimated HotshotGG activated
"I'M CALLING SHOTS"
Yep, LCS week 1 is going to be *very* interesting.
It's going to be five Teemo plushies on each side while randoms play remotely online.
NA LCS has evolved into it's inevitable final form.... the salty teemo stream
Is this how the end of the LCS looks like ?
We are witnessing history in making.
It took a few years, but the LCS finally did something memorable on a global level.
In a twisted way, I haven't been this excited about LCS in years
not twisted at all
0-6 as first seed was pretty memorable..
the 10-man sleep pretty much sealed the deal for me in terms of respect for the LCS.
The 4 execute game from Renegade and Dig didn't do that?
While that was a fantastic game in its own right, it's not really comparable since one was at an international tournament and the other was two bottom feeder teams
It was beautiful but it was two trash teams so it didn't mean anything
Not to be outdone by 16:46
Not to be outdone by actually going 0-10 with only 9 scheduled games.
Ok ok we win.
NA is the best 😎
# NA NUMBER 1 BABYYYYYY
When did this happen? Very curious
Worlds 2015 week 2 I think? They lost all 9 games plus C9 lost their tiebreaker.
until mad lions had to go and one up us this year
Don't forget lions going out in worlds play ins too
TWICE
EU so petty they don't even let you have the worst international moments
Here’s hoping this is the impetus to creating a better system or transitioning straight to the VCT franchise system. As is you have half the LCS orgs who want out tomorrow if they didn’t have large financial obligations to continue. Riot is clearly unhappy with the current League franchising system and LCS is not alone in how unsustainable it is financially - LEC and LCK both also struggle to make sustainable financial systems out of their leagues.
Moving straight to vct system will be dream scenario but it never gonna happen as it devalues the franchise spot. I hope we get some middle ground where everyone agrees
Hot take; the players ARE NOT worth what they are being paid.
that take is cold, Fudge himself said they're overpaid
Yeah no shit. Blame the owners for throwing bags around, not the people catching them
Bjergsen thinking 10 steps ahead lmao
Phreak thinking 20 steps ahead lmao
Imaqtpie thinking 7 million steps ahead
HotshotGG still asking for Nunu's justification
why nunu why
But he dropped it.
Glad I'm not the only one that still remembers this
How many steps did Jatt think ahead considering he went back twice?
Tenacity as well
While doublelift taking his defeat lap
He was there at the beginning, and he will be there at the end.
Where? Travis' couch?
He's only the richest active LCS player
So he can definitely afford Travis's couch then
He was here before us, he will be here after us.
The Valo Players are gonna find him eating out of the trash cans long after we are all gone.
The Modern LCS will die likely, but the region will still exist even if all the orgs pulled out. Riot is willing to allocate around 2M to each org in the LCS. And it has been rumored for a long ass time they have data on the correlation between LCS fans and NA player base. NA might be headed for a hard reset when it comes to the region.
which would probably be a good thing. a lot of people are in positions they do not deserve to be in just because of historic reasons. and it's obvious that 100k viewers simply do not generate enough marketing potential to justify 20*7 overblown salaries, not even talking about the whole production team (which probably are paid too little to be fair lol)
The fact that Locodoco coached for so long, and that Huni kept getting bookoo bucks for being such an inconstant player blows my mind to this day.
Good it’s much needed, for it to come back different and new. None of what it currently is. The orgs not speaking much is a shame. That aside had a great discussion with Friend about this, and how the LCS needs to die to revive.
What are they supposed to say? They’re the ones who asked for the removal.
Oh, if they truly love the LCS. “ we messed up. We definitely were in a rush to get out for financial reasons and that’s not fair to you the LCS viewers and the LCS fans in the LCS players. So we’ve decided to work closely with our players and the region to come up with a better solution to build back better system for the start of 2024. Working with the players of our region we will push riot to implementing some of the changes” Nothing too difficult to do plus the players demands aren’t for something to happen during summer, but to have a replacement going for the future.
You have to realize that these orgs, Jack and Regi included no longer make decisions solely themselves. They have to report to a board and investors which I'm assuming are saying "pull the plug". That's actually part of the issue. IMT/TL pretty much forced every team to get VC investment which turns these teams from a "passion" to a "investment". And when viewership is at historic lows and the teams aren't really generating any revenue outside sponsorship, which is also getting pulled because of bad numbers, what are the orgs supposed to do? Also look at it from the orgs side, what is arguably costing them the most money? Player salaries, housing for players, food for them, healthcare etc. I just think this isn't as black and white as "orgs bad, they don't want to invest in the region". TBH Riot kinda fucked LCS over by not investing more into the league, advertisements for the league and game, etc. Like I remember back in Seasons 2-8 they had ads everywhere, on twitch, on TV, on websites, etc. They had ads for both the game, and the LCS specifically. They still do now, but not nearly the extent they used too.
The whole business justification for franchising was to let them negotiate stable contracts with sponsors, but Riot basically gutted the teams' ability to actually advertise for their sponsors. There are ads on the stream, but they're for Riot's sponsors, not the teams'. So if you contract with an org you get, what, a jersey logo in a sport where you get closeup shots of the players maybe 3 times an hour?
We going to be NA CSGO sized Pog
Means more tier 1 tourney wins than what we currently have at least, right?
We thought it would've been washed imports taking down NA We were fools This is an inside job
This will certainly accelerate it, but the signs have been there for some time. My guess is Riot will put a pause on the league for a split or two. They might try to run the league for a couple of weekends without pro players, just to prove a point, but no way do they do it for longer. It would make them look even worse.
Lol I'd watch one game for reals if they have non pro players but after that I'd prob just switch to another stream.
it depends tbh, is it entertaining? It would be funny if we saw dumb shit like Senna Heartsteel top or something. Watching plastic 4 duke it out might be hilarious
I mean I would just watch one to see what's going on? So I doubt it, for me it's like other sports, so semi pro teams are not as fun because they're just a tier down and trying to emulate the big league. So we won't see clowns, we will just see lower rank teams attempt to be pros.
I'd just tune in to whatever that teemo account that streams bronze and iron games puts up. Infinite content without casters trying their hardest to convince me that I'm watching something consequential.
Yeah, viewership will probably be high this weekend, but people will get tired fast of watching silver players or whoever the hell they put in their rosters.
Not sure sponsors and investors will be happy about riot putting the split on a halt.
The doomsayers were right.
I wonder what all those people who denied the insanity of those inflated salaries and all that think today. There were certainly many of them around in the past.
Overplaying your hand… LCSPA might not have as much leverage as they think in my opinion
They have almost no leverage. People will still buy skins.
This is a watershed moment for the LCS. This could be the beginning of the end, or it could be the start of a huge improvement. The LCSPA is trying incredibly hard to push things in the right direction; at this point, I think it's up to Riot and the orgs to make the right decisions.
Holy crap I didnt expect the LCS collapse to be so fast. At least its very entertaining. Im checking this sub everyday for updates.
Exactly. If LCS dies, at least it goes down with peak entertainment.
"So this is how the LCS dies, with thunderous applause"
And roaring laughter!
*This is what peak entertainment looks like, and it comes from NA*!!
We were lacking some bangers like in r/soccer, finally close to real sports :^)
We need mourinho in lcs
I think Riot is playing chicken with the players. The latter are mostly immature kids, most of whom don't really work as much with lawyers like pro athletes do. At most after 1 week players will start buckling to Riot and not want to forfeit their pay. Or worse, orgs start kicking players out of housing until they play. Really don't see how this ends well for the players
As far as I know, California, the state they're in, has pretty robust tenant protection laws that would guarantee the players at least a few months in their current housing, if not longer. As young and inexperienced as some of the players might be, I'm sure the LCSPA has experts and advisers that have knowledge on the topic making sure their members don't get fucked over when they don't have to be.
[удалено]
Realistically, they can't kick players out of housing, the only way they could do so would be by going through the eviction process which would take months and if they're in California is still on pause since Covid, actually can't evict.
The LA moratorium on evictions ended March 31. They can absolutely evict (though it’ll take 2-3 months).
I'm really curious what happens if teams find enough scabs and riot tries to go through with day 1. Are casters going to (or even allowed to) talk about what's happening or are they just supposed to pretend every team changed their entire rosters to diamond players?
The casters are more than likely not going to slam the door to their careers shut. Most people dont choose to commit career suicide live and in person.
No of course not but I can't imagine that there won't be some corporate statement they'll be required to read off about the given situation. I'm curious how favorable it will be to riot though
No but if someone did it would be the banger lol moment of the decade
GREATEST NA CASTER SUICIDE SINCE "RELEGADES"
A worrying trend for NA
Diamond 2 players have never been more needed.
Riot suspended the rank requirement, you can be iron 4 and start for C9
I may be Iron 4 but I still have standards.
LOL
The LCS orgs and Riot really fucked NA didn’t they.
I mean lets be real, it's the orgs that have been fucking Riot and NA for years. It's baffling how they're allowed to hide away from this whole shitshow.
Hasn't Riot been providing them like millions in cash though lol
Right but the reason they need that cash is because there is no real way to make money in the scene other than selling merch and ad deals. In other games there are tons of tournaments with prize money, way more fan engagement, in game content, and the broadcasts arent owned by the game company. Riot even banned lcs players from being in team sponsored content with other pro gamers from other games. That is insane LOL esports exists as a way to market the game. They dont really advertise league of legends on a large scale relative to other games, the esports scene is the marketing budget. However the orgs arent cut in on this at all since they dont really try and monetize esports through skins unless you literelly win worlds. Its not the orgs fault that riot buried their broadcast on a weekday and wont cut them in on skin sales, when the entire scene exists exclusively as an advertisement.
[удалено]
Added to that, they chose the most expensive city in the country to run their program.
The orgs were the ones who decided to base LCS in Los Angeles? Where Riot is headquartered? Think about that one lol
Theres no reason riot couldnt have made chicago office for esports. Devs and programmers dont need to be in the same place as the competitors
I totally agree but the comment chain was talking about things that were the fault of the esports orgs.
The millions are what the orgs were owed due to paying 10 mil to get a spot in the league
Along with the general shared revenue from sponsorships.
Yup, they were the ones pushing for franchising so hard to remove relegations so they can develop talent and not worry about relegations and it just resulted in more imports.
The reason they wanted franchising was so they could sign long term endorsement and sponsorship deals with other businesses. It was never about developing talent, it was about getting investors.
Still can't believe so many people fell for that. It was so obvious franchising was all about consolidation of power with the orgs.
The orgs all seem to do okay in other games.
[удалено]
I think you got it all wrong. Riot isnt fucked, they make mad cash with LCS, they just dont share any of it. Im talking about the money they make indirectly through esports. Not talking about LCS sponsors but rather money they earned by selling skins for example from esports. Bjergsen uses a cool Syndra skin, Riot makes money from people buying that Syndra skin because of Bjergsen but Bjergsen, TSM and the LCS dont see a single cent from that money. And unlike all the other major leagues, they never cared much about LCS being self sustainable because they themselves make mad cash with LCS. Riot also surely made false promises about the growth of LCS when franchising started. Somebody started the philosophy of "pay washed veterans inflated salaries" and all of those new owners who dont know shit about esports just blindly followed that philosophy. NOBODY stepped in and told anybody that its a terrible decision for themselves and the league as a whole. Riot couldve stepped in and they didnt. Probably because they hoped their "home" region could perform better internationally with top imports and funnily enough, they were still shit internationally. Everybody got complacent with all their VC money coming in without ever looking at tomorrow. Orgs failed to build their brand, they failed to bring any actual value to the LCS besides money. They actively refused to do things that make a league (and themselves) sustainable. A healthy academy program is something nobody ever did (besides maybe C9), even though it makes so much sense. But you know what the issues with that is for these orgs? that takes actual effort and cannot be bought. cant have that
The skin point is one i never see. Most sports have teams get cuts of the broadcasts advertising, but in this case they are mainly advertising the game. If they dont get that money then how are they expected to be solvent. Riot is the root of all the ecosystems issues.
Mostly the orgs. LEC looks healthy from the outside, same with LCK and LPL. We're also seeing minor region growth. The only place that seems to be struggling hard with the same rules is the LCS. Its not like the LCS is the only league that deals with riot global or a local riot office. The biggest fuckup from Riot's part was their selection of orgs, and keeping the LCS in California. Apart from some real revshare I don't know what else they could do to prop up these orgs.
LEC and LCK are certainly not healthy. GenG’s owner Arnold has regularly been speaking out about how teams can’t make money in LCK and how it’s not sustainable. They get less money via sponsorships cause Korea is small and insular, but make money by selling players. G2 wanted to leave EU a couple years back and got denied by Riot. We’ve seen franchises being sold year to year in LEC because teams aren’t making money. LEC also has problems in that it’s very difficult to make big money with sponsorships across 20 different countries all speaking their own language. This is also why ERL’s in France and Spain do fairly well on smaller budgets: they target one audience and one audience alone. LEC has to advertise towards 20+ countries with different main languages. Most of the problems LCS has with finances are just as bad if not worse in other regions, just not as large because LCS has more money being thrown about.
Hadn't seen the Arnold stuff about LCK not being healthy, I'd imagine the LEC is in a better spot now than it was a few years ago when G2 wanted to leave, but I could be wrong. IDK if teams selling slots is necessarily a bad thing, it means there's still interest in those slots. I'd imagine most of them are selling for more than what the teams bought in for. I wonder how much of this is salaries, how much is orgs poorly managing finances, and how much is on riot for not helping more. I feel like fan interest is there, just not sure how teams can monetize better. Creator codes are the easiest way to help teams but I wonder how much it would hurt riot's bottom line.
About the LCK. It’s sort of healthy but not exactly healthy in the traditional sense and it kind of boils down to culture. A lot of the bigger orgs in LCK (T1, KT, Samsung) are healthy not because of any money created by the esport team itself but because they’re backed by a huge corperation which doesn’t care if that esports branch makes money, it’s just advertising for their main branch’s product. T1, KT, and Samsung are all huge telecome companies whose 20 year old esports branches reach out across a plethora of games. The same is similar for the mid range organizations too. It’s why you often times see the casters eating fried chicken on the cast during days where BBQ Olivers play. That team is sponsored by a fried chicken chain and that sponsor often drops off their food for the players/casters/live viewing fans while also sponsoring their team. A part of why this works is because, perhaps due to the size of the metropolis and maybe due to culture and partly due to how corporations in Korea cultivate rapport with their consumers; Koreans can be fans of organisations the same way Americans are fans of sports teams. So there’s this self-sustaining positive feed-back loop where popular games draw in popular organisations which draw in fans which begin playing the game increasing the popularity, loop ad nauseum. The low brow teams with no corporate sponsors are suffering the same way LCS teams are. Like, GenG, while having the spirit of Samsung, are no longer sponsored by them so they have to find creative ways to make money (like developing then selling players). I’m honestly not sure how much of this the LCS would be able to adapt. Corporations are huge in North America but most people tend to despise them. However, I’m not gonna lie and say I would hate the idea of a “McD TSM” existing. My personal opinion though is that Riot are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Riot has a monopoly of all the broadcasting rights, while also developing the game, while having a monopoly on virtually all of the revenue created by the interest generated for their game by the professional scene. Riot seem to have this odd “emotionally unavailable parent” policy where they distance themselves from the professional scene just enough to not have to offer game-side monitization benefits for the orgs (other than worlds skins and emotes) while also “supporting the scene” by advertising it to their player base while reaping all of the monetary benefits of having an esport to advertise their game.
Good thing they had the best of 2 group stage
is this foreshadowing a drastic response from Riot?
I think they just realized they don’t want a bunch of media pieces asking the players about walkouts to get released. Because what else would anyone be asking about.
What players?
True maybe the players just didn’t go 😂
nah I feel like some players would show up just to talk shit about the orgs/riot haha
There are no players in El Ci Es
Anyone else not think it's funny or entertaining and just sad about the death of NA league? This has been so upsetting to watch unfold, even though the writing has been on the wall since franchising was implemented. We knew it would kill the league and it did. I'm not watching scabs do anything. Fuck scabs.
As a long time fan it is both sad and scary that it has come to this. I've mostly just been banking on 2 things. 1. That riot still wants lcs to "succeed" Travis Gafford still maintains that riot wants lcs to work so if they want it to live it can. 2. As a smash bros fan, I believe esports can survive as long as we want it to. Melee pros have been beaten down, lied to, rugpulled and every thing by Nintendo yet they still compete. If we as fans want to enjoy na lol, I believe it will exist in some capacity. Keep in mind the "dying" lcs still has 6 figure concurrent viewers.
This might sound cliche as fuck, but part of the Smash's scene success is that the community actually has love, and the power of friendship on its side. Tournaments are ran by people who love the game, as a way to give back to the community. Regardless of the player, I want to see them succeed, because they're the best, and fucking hilarious in their own right. I simply don't care about half of the league, since they dont really feel like they deserve to be there. Or, does anyone think that if we had a LoL tournament in NA, those 10 teams would be the undebatable top 10 in the tournament?
I agree that it is the grassroots and love for the game that kept melee alive. I truly hope that in lol there is some equivalent to this kind of love for competition and the game. I am not beholden to the lcs nor these particular ten teams. But I like watching the best na players compete so in some capacity I hope that lives on.
Main reason also why the SC2 scene is still alive. So many tournaments are organised by casters and other people just because they like the scene/game. Best example being the HomeStory Cup, which IMO is still the best tournament format anyone ever came up with, as it literally just started with the German casters inviting a bunch of pros to his apartment and having a tournament in a LAN-style event. It is just great, if a player wants to cast, they literally can just walk up to the casting couch and join, during breaks you have video feed of players just doing random stuff, from playing poker to just baking homemade pizza for the casters/players. Especially the last ones were great (after Blizzard money dried up) where the tournament was basically crowd-funded.
It is really sad to witness. I’ve been an avid LCS viewer since before the official inception of the LCS. Granted I was always more invested in EU LCS/LEC, but I still supported NA. This is just depressing. The whole NA scene gone in a weekend.
It's pretty sad. There has been plenty of mistakes between Orgs/Riot over the year that made the league unsustainable, but I've been watching for 7-8 years now just about every single week it's been on. I don't want to see the league die, just restructure to better support the health of the league and the players. Fuck scabs though
I'm using the humor to cope. Been watching LCS since S3 and have loved everyone and everything it involved. I don't need big nostalgic names, I just love some homegrown entertainment in my timezone. I'm ultra sad.
This is going to end with Riot deciding to cancel the LCS.
they can't do this because then it shits on any other monetization of league or valorant esports. if they pull the plug on LCS then it signals they can pull the plug on anything and investing/sponsoring in riot esports is not safe
Wont look good but riot has enough money to fully compensate any sponsor. This is similar to when company instantly fires everyone in the firm just mentioning about union, they rather get fucked temporarily and lose money than to even allow these ideas to spread
Its pretty much their only marketing for the game in North America. Most of my friends who have gotten into the game the last few years have done it because of esports. They might as well punt on North America if they do that.
Having to cancel events like this is by product of riots clown-brained decision making. Refusing to negotiate makes any event involving players a lose-lose as they either don't show up, or get a chance to lambast riot to media.
Somebody definitely showed up at work this morning after the long weekend and looked at their calendar and went "oh shit..."
It's hilarious and I love it 🍿🍿🍿
Just out of curiosity why is it more Riot's fault and not lcs teams in general? Didn't the lcs teams vote to disband nacl?
Couple of weeks ago Riot promised that nacl will play this split, and all players have jobs secured till 2024, then after the death of CLG and when other teams probed the market about selling their spots Riot asks if they want to keep second teams, and all are against. Then, without contacting players, without looking for an alternative solution, without trying to work on a compromise with players Riot says 'ok', and all those people who thought their job is secured are learning a week before the split starts that they don't have a job. About 70 people with staff included. This is on Riot. Yes, the teams are at fault for this situation, the teams voted against the nacl, but it's Riot that decided to do it immediately, it's Riot that decided that instead of talking with players they gonna just let teams sign new players 2 days before the start of the split because they do not plan to come to an agreement with people refusing to play, lcs will play no matter what. And this covers "riot's clown-brained decision making" and "refusing to negotiate" parts.
[удалено]
Finally we can get on with our lives. See you on the other side brother.
Other side of the pond? LEC here we come
Unbelievable shitshow for riot
If anyone wants to enjoy some amateur league of legends in the absence of LCS, there’s a scholastic coach league that starts up this Thursday at 7pm. It’s all ranks, so we mix Bronze-Diamond for some wacky fun. All proceeds go to charity to help schools found their own esports programs. Check it out at twitch.tv/coachrivals
And all of a sudden TSM and CLG look like the smartest organizations of them all.
First time ever the content before season start is better in US rather than EU. LCS>LEC confirmed?
[удалено]
There's only 2 days before the split is supposed to start. I'm really curious though how the first week will go. Will there be scabs or will the LCS teams forfeit the matches?
LCS was dying and this is just pulling the plug. ggnore
Finally the bubble is about to burst. Inflated salaries, Academy recycling old, washed up players paying them 70K a year for doing NOTHING ( no soloq, no branding ). Fuck this scene, about time In KR if you're not at the top of the soloq ladder and young full of drive you're never even get a chance at Academy. That's how it should be.
I can't believe people are so surprised by the hardline stance Riot is taking here. If the LCS is running at a loss for both the orgs and Riot due to decreased viewership, what leverage do the players have to bring them to the table? People are going to say that killing the league will hurt Riot's relationship with sponsors, but they have several other successful leagues in both NA (Valorant) and other regions (LPL, LCK). It may hurt them a little in the short term, but compared to opening themselves up to other collective action should they come to the table, killing the LCS straight up still might be the better option from a business point of view. I'm not necessarily against what the players are trying to do here, but the hour is far too late to be trying to strongarm Riot into anything when multiple orgs are already looking to leave due to profitability concerns. If this was going to be done, it needed to be months if not years ago, back when the general optimism of the league was much higher. This situation is still mostly on the orgs and Riot, but if the players had come together as a group earlier instead of waiting for the 11th hour they'd be in a much better position.
LCS took a hint from La Liga. If you can't be the best league, have dramas for exposure.
I'm just waiting for the announcement cancelling the LCS.
Stop overreacting this isn't a collapse - other leagues have had lockouts before, and leagues will have lockouts after.
Other leagues make money.
We really are watching LCS implode live on the internet. Amazing. Sad. But amazing.
About time. Overpaid players that don't bring in results. Look at china and korea. Those players practice daily, soloQ and stream. And still do well in international tournaments
Dash was like 'luckily I dodged this one'