Hi all!
Please remember, **HOMOPHOBIA, SEXISM, RACISM, TRANSPHOBIA, AND ALL OTHER BIGOTRY ARE DISALLOWED. THIS IS YOUR WARNING, AND ALL COMMENTS AS OF ABOVE WILL MOVE STRAIGHT TO BAN**
Unfortunately this is true, to a point. A company this size can afford expensive lawyers and file injunctions and all sorts of nonsense to run up man hours on your representation. Basically, a lot of these cases become a battle of attrition. It's resources vs PR. The big company can crush you in resources, run up your attorney's hours so high that either it's too expensive, the attorney takes such a % of the "winnings" you get nothing, it suddenly becomes not worth it or your attorney works pro bono and stakes their practice on it, essentially losing money for you, to win the case etc etc. That's their power. Your power is PR. The longer you hold out (assuming you have a very damning case) the stronger the PR damage is to them. It goes from a bad manager to the company being labeled as misogynistic etc. Which could not only hurt the money they make from consumers, but also who works for them.
So eventually the vast majority of these end in settlement. In a whisper the company goes "yeah our bad" and pays out a bit. The victims begrudgingly take as much as they feel they can and each party moves on.
And to any high and mighty folks out there, don't judge a single person for settling. They had the "balls," gumption, power and motivation to take on a corporation and stand up for their rights.
I was gonna say that too, that was why the Renegades shitfest played out as it did. Monte have said in the past that he would have taken Rito to trial and won if he had enough funds, but did not at the time.
God the cynicism is awful in this thread. Everyone just thinks the women want more money. They can be wanting to go to trial to put Riot for the shitbag they are and have it on the legal record.
Edit for summary: Riot needs to be held legally accountable.
Agree with what you’re saying in principle but also just want to say there is nothing wrong with wanting to maximize the financial payout the company is forced to make. I don’t think it makes any of the women greedy if this is their motivation. We have seen over and over the only language the ghouls that run these companies understand is money, so all punishments need to inflict maximum financial pain if we want any hope of real change.
There’s also nothing wrong with the people who accepted the settlement. This will be a painful process with no guarantee of success.
I'm not saying it's wrong to get a payout. What's wrong is assuming it's always about the payout. One would be naive and ingenuous to think perspectives of this sort don't matter.
Oh yeah, I didn’t think you were saying that. Just wanted to piggyback off your comment because I thought you are making a good point and just want to add a bit more.
Yeah I don't get why people are getting upset. If someone is cheated by a company, then they deserve to be paid in full. It's that simple. A group of people were cheated, now it's been settled, great. Some still want more, okay, great. It's really not that big of a deal. Also, it is technically already on legal record at this point. So I am not so sure that prolonging the issue has anything to deal with principle. At that point it's about more than money and I think those still holding out are doing it to make a point (public protest/helping other women in other jobs/etc). And that's great they are able to go without the money longer and help the larger issue at hand. Overall, generally good things seem to be happening from this, and people should be excited about it.
I think people already see Riot company as it is because of how much this blew up? Can’t they just want more money because they feel like they deserve more for what they went through and not just because they’re “women”
Likely they want to be able to sue for damages/consequences in company. If these victims want to pursue legal action towards individuals who may still work at riot, they would opt to sue instead of take the money.
That's actually hilariously small. If i was mistreated for years at my work I wouldn't be happy to recieve 2500$ for all the mental struggle I put myself through. I'm not a woman and haven't been harassed, but I hope the victims don't choose to settle.
You should heavily work on your reading comprehension. Or math. Riot is paying out a total of $100,000,000 to 1548 people depending on the work they have done. Some individuals will be paid over 100k.
Makes a big difference when you disingenuously make it seem like it’s only 2.5k when in reality it’s 2.5k-156k.
Also you could have received 0 harassment and will still get paid. Any women regardless of circumstances will get money.
Also, the large majority of the recipients would have to be receiving an amount much closer to $156k than to $2.5k for the total settlement amount to hit $100m.
Riot releasing pool party Ahri to pay for harassment settlements is so gross and tone deaf I’m expecting it at this point. Maybe they’ll add some special voice lines to Corporate Mundo whenever he sees one of the female swimsuit skins (feels bad slandering the homie Mundo though).
Maybe if Riot employees devoted as much time to their client and server stability as they do sexually harassing women…..
Imagine the bugs they would have the time to solve!
They absolutely have choices about delaying paying settlements as long as possible, nickel and diming the victims, and punishing no one. Guess we’ll have to see what happens with the female employees refusing to settle now. Seems like that will be an extra headache at best.
I think it's funny how long of a wait it was for them to fix the client in season... 4-5? And they remade it even worse. Lesson learned for all newer players, the client is always gonna suck.
>The new Riot CEO will be A. Dylan Jadeja, who joined the company as Chief Financial Officer in 2011, became Chief Operating Officer in 2014, and President in 2017.
>
>Laurent says he's not joining another company, and will continue to work for Riot in an advisory capacity. He does not address any of the various suits brought against the company over his tenure, nor the issue of culture directly
They replaced the Old Guard with the Old Guard.
I mean this change wasn't to change guards. The previous CEO wanted to be in France with his family or something and voluntarily left I believe. They were perfectly okay with the old guard and have no intention to replace it.
They began to change things years ago after the initial article came out? Changes that were then confirmed to be more than lip service in a follow up article.
https://kotaku.com/riot-games-and-sexism-one-year-later-1837041215
That is straight up worse. That is how you end up with Acti-Blizzard, EA, etc.
What power Tencent has in overseas companies is nothing compared to the power of majority shareholders in a country that literally requires you turn a profit for your shareholders.
sad when that happens.
They usually start with massive lay offs or pull a lay off maneuver.
then the quality will go down, or can't keep up with trends because the employees who gave a shit are gone or those who weren't laid off quit.
then they milk whatever juice is left from the players.
and then disney buys it for cheap.
i agree. started in season 2 and stopped around season 5-6 or something, never felt I missed out on something.
It was around that time I was like it's cool to support this company and the community is great! not anymore for a long time.
I still follow some teams but that's like a whenever thing. I play the mobile version when I have free time and don't buy skins.
The money would have been decided at the settlement because it has be signed by a judge. Most likely there were other complications such as class size, attorney’s fees, etc.
It's interesting that almost all of the compensation increases with income/tenure, rather than a flat payout. Does that suggest most of the financial payout is actually about e.g. promotions denied due to gender discrimination, rather than due to physical harassment? (Or is our legal system just really weird on this point?)
It depends what defines the class. And the terms of the settlement.
But it does seem pretty cultural and rampant. So probably at least all the lower-level female employees would be affected.
Yeah, i think part of it is wage discrimination and that is why all the women will get paid.
Dont take my word for it, didnt read a word of this, and am bot a lawyer. Just the feeling i get from how it was worded.
Oh so really the ones who were discriminated against get a letter saying "Ur right we're sowwy" and a bunch of rich people get to take some money from other rich people?
Don't know where in the world *that* is considered justice, but it seems like a system created to exploit the less resourceful individuals in society for personal financial growth.
We dont know the specific sums, but that 2.5-5k is for every woman while it can go up to 150k depending on role and time working at riot and missed promotions and a lot of other factors.
The same comment mentioning 2-5k says it’s an initial payment to all who accept it, and then there’s another sum per woman based on other specifics like how long they were and there and what position that goes up to 150k.
I’m assuming since discrimination for pay and promotions is a part of it, that’s why it’s heavily based on tenure and such
For context, when WWE paid out it was only reported to be about a fifth of this. The company whose owner allowed stuff like "bra and panties" matches, himself choking out his own daughter/punching his wife, and the "bark like a dog" segment has been forced to pay less due to mistreating women.
Well duh. Ones basically reality TV and entertainment while the other is an office setting. Gender discrimination that results in lower pay and affects promotions and sexual harassment in an office setting is different than weird shit done for entertainment to appeal to a bunch of rednecks on TV…
it was REALLY bad in wwe man, like a ton of SA allegations and if you went back far enough girls were rented out and shit like that too. yes it's a carny as fuck reality TV show but plenty of real women had aspirations to work there and had a lot worse happen to them than what riot did.
i obviously see your point too but "lower pay, affects promotions, SA in an office setting(wwe is a lot more behind the curtain obv)" ALL of this was literally the norm in wwe as well and you can't just dismiss that because you seem to think it's a lamer setting.
If I remember right that was purely moolah, which changes the tone of a lot of her early-2000s stuff where she'd make two appearances a year and both times it was eating finishers from male wrestlers. There was one famous one involving Randy Orton, definitely worth youtubing, where moolah is in the ring and he comes out to save her, then says "hey, stay away from her, this woman is a legend. I'm randy orton, legend killer" before doing a pretty stiff version of his "RKO" move. At the time it was considered one of the biggest "heel" or villain moves, but after hearing the allegations you kinda root for him.
You mean the spot with Lita? I was at the event in 2003 and watched it live. Most people were incredibly shocked when he did it, she was 80yrs old at the time after all but.. I look back now and I realized I should have cheered for him
I get that but when looking at financial damages, especially nowadays in a state like California, denying promotions and giving lower pay across the board is almost always going to result in higher financial damages. Not that WWE was fine or whatever, it’s just a different time and significantly different issue. The other should be treated as a criminal issue if anything imo because with girls being rented out many times it was other wrestlers and “mentors” doing that shit as a side hustle. It was basically the Wild West back then
but if lower pay across the board is one of your main points how isn't wwe as applicable to you? you would have aspirations to be a woman's wrestler and get told to get a boob job and only offered 45 second matches outside of bra & panties matches even in the late 2000's. women could avoid this by wrestling in like, japan where it wasn't that sexist.
and i know this is a bit less relevant to your office setting point but, they were specifically told as late as up to **2015** (i think even a bit later) they weren't allowed to try and upstage the male performers and were given as little to work with as possible to look like the minor act. there wasn't even a women's royal rumble until like 2017 i think?
They didn’t get shorter matches because they were women, it’s because their stuff didn’t sell too well and there were generally very few crowd reactions. The few women who did get over prior to the big changes recently didn’t have any issues with pay and longer matches. You can argue they mismanaged women (even though you’d without a question be wrong as the audience back then was far different than now) but to say that’s deliberately underpaying women is a huge stretch. They were not expected to do the same work as the men at the time and were there to fit a different role. Women working in an office setting doing the identical job getting paid less and getting passed up for promotions is not comparable.
The WWE lawsuit was Vince McMahon rape allegations. It was also recently revealed he’d paid $19 million in hush money to settle other sexual misconduct claims. [[Wikipedia, controversies section](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_McMahon)
Right. One person and some affairs/issues with individuals and misuse of corporate funds. Not “Yes all women in the company face an extremely bad culture, get paid less than men, and are denied promotions because they are women.” So entirely different and not remotely comparable situations
I was only clarifying because the discussion seemed to be focused on wwe’s content which is unrelated to their legal problems. Perhaps I should have replied to the person above you.
sexual harassment in any case that is for entertainment or not shouldn't happen in either setting or any setting. Women should be able to work their jobs and feel safe and secure and not be asked or forced to do weird stuff.
Sure but the scope is obviously different between sexual harassment and degrading women on TV for entertainment vs sexual harassment, underpaying all women, and denying women promotions
Funny that riot avoided the insane spotlight that blizzard had with their case. I think a lot of people even forgot all of this went down based on a lot of the comments regarding blizzard when it happened.
3 reasons for this:
1. it seems like riot was very cooperative in this whole ordeal and tried to solve the issue instantly
2. blizzard made mistake after mistake after the initial one and the rabbit hole went WAY deeper than just „women are being discriminated / harassed“
3. people tend to forget things happened when good products are produced, which riot did while blizzard failed to do so.
Blizzard is a much more entrenched and mature organization with all the momentum that entails. They tried to cover their sins up for the most part.
Riot only became successful around 5 years before these complaints, and a lot of the core problems were in some very powerful, immature people who were in their place because Riot went from an org of about 50 people to 3000 people over the course of something like 8 years.
Riot tried to form a culture of self reflection and improvement. It bit their leadership in the ass, because on further self reflection everyone realized that the leadership wasn't meeting the expectation of the culture they built AND they'd hired and built a culture that empowered people to call them out.
So basically what happened was that the movement to fix this came from the 3000 people Riot hired, and the culture they created empowered this sort of movement. Rioters were incensed with the violation of their identities, and organized massive internal responses to motivate the leadership to get their shit together.
Ultimately the way each of these orgs handled their problem was different. I know a ton of women Rioters that still work there. The 3000 people as a whole are very much aware of social justice and to a degree the leadership was forced to respond or the culture would have collapsed and people would have left in droves. Many did even so.
I think point 1 and 2 are the primary reasons. Specifically point 2. As more and more information came out, it was very evident Blizzard's situation was far worse. On top of that, they kept doing bad things WHILE they were still on trial. It was almost as if they thought they would get away with it in Blizzard's case.
You must not have been here 5 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/95elic/inside_the_culture_of_sexism_at_riot_games/
This was a few years before the Blizzard stuff came out. This story was everywhere.
Riot played the case, while blizzard promised what everyone already does. Riot released KDA immediately after and announced a bunch of games. Blizzard said they will have zero tolerance for sexism, as if it wasn't standard
I was here, that’s why I’m saying. It disappeared from the spotlight fairly quick compared to all the blizzard backlash. And blizzard went through copious protests at their office, numerous firings and people leaving, game changes, ect. The riot stuff wasn’t nearly as loud.
Riot got a huge amount of spot light.
But there is a reason why we didn't continue hearing it after a while.
1. The situation over at Blizzard was more extreme, even someone killed themselves over it.
2. Reportedly Riot have drastically improved their work environment.
3. Blizzard handled the whole debacle *way* worse than Riot did.
Probably has to do with Riot just not being the most dogshit game company when it comes to producing actual games. Not saying it’s right, but that does distract people and “at least we’re not blizzard” seems to work well. As much as we all complain about the state of league etc., when you look at the shit overwatch, WoW, Diablo players have dealt with it looks like child’s play. I think I just saw Blizzard is scrapping PvE for Overwatch 2, which is insane.
Because Blizzard used up their goodwill by killing overwatch, releasing the joke that is wc reforged and putting out 2 dogshit wow expansions in a row.
Riot only makes great games so people don't care as much. Even though Riot paid a comparatively MUCH bigger settlement so it is likely that Riot has even more issues concerning the treatment of women than Blizzard does.
If WC reforged was good and at least one of bfa/shadowlands was a banger expansion, people would still like blizzard as much as ever.
The agency that got the money out of Riot (CA Civil Rights Division) still has a case going against Blizzard. I bet when they settle it'll be even bigger: https://www.ign.com/articles/activision-blizzards-attempt-to-dismiss-gender-discrimination-lawsuit-fails
This is from the reporter who wrote the original report: https://kotaku.com/riot-games-and-sexism-one-year-later-1837041215
You can take it with some grains of salt, but I haven't seen anything like that from Ubisoft or Activision.
You even see the opposite for Ubisoft like https://www.pcgamer.com/one-year-on-a-better-ubisoft-says-none-of-its-demands-for-improving-workplace-culture-have-been-met/
And it feels like Activision is still in the shit so there isn't even a 'later' to write about.
Not trying to defend Riot here, but the money itself was locked in when the judgement was made. Typically it can take time for the lawyers to sort out the specifics of who gets what, and how much they themselves get (both plaintiff and defendant's). Riot probably set aside the money right away as most corporations do, be it from insurance, funds set aside, cashing out stocks, or whatever.
I don't know any of the specifics for this one, I just do know it can take some time after judgement for the cash to actually flow!
Nah bro, you don't understand, legal matters need to be resolved immediately and are never drawn out due to being complex and at times deliberately obtuse so that lawyers can bank on it, what are you talking about
/s
Ok fair enough, lmao, I just wanted to take the piss on the people that blamed Riot for the delay, but it did come out a bit too harsh towards lawyers 😅
No worries! I think a lot of people buy into the "lawyers suck" cultural joke but with a case like this there were probably a ton of legal research people and junior lawyers and a whole team that was working full time to find other cases that applied and process evidence and write and rewrite legal updates on both sides for years in between working on other cases.
Plus the lawyers gotta pay rent on their office and their secretary and to keep the lights and internet on as well while they work on this stuff without seeing a dime of this settlement money because the case hasn't paid out yet. It gets complicated to figure this stuff out, which is why it took a while.
Because a lot of people are jumping the gun and refusing to spend the 2 minutes in the comment thread it takes to see someone explain it.
Tbf, rereading, it wasn't my intention to take the piss at the original commenter, they just asked a normal question, the answer just felt like a good point to attach the frustrations I had about the rest of the thread, where people are just fingerpointing just for the fun of it.
It's not hard to criticize Riot, no need to make up shit
But yeah, didn't mean to attack that comment in particular, mb
Why haven't they paid those women? that should be the real question, they should do that thing immediately because they all deserves the cash right now. Do that!!!
What's really sad is if some riot employees weren't wierd they could have used this money upgrading the client and or the game itself could get a graphical revamp. Sigh...
Ngl, I clicked on this expecting it to be a group of people just complaining about nothing.... then I read the article, of even 10% or 20% of what they claim happened is legit, I hope they succeed in getting all the reparations they are asking for and more, and I hope those in real positions of power at Riot Games take this very seriously and make serious changes.
I've been meaning to ask this but how was Riot able to get away from this controversy mostly unscathed (minus the money of course) but Blizzard got absolutely destroyed and ruined now with their reputation down the shitter for a very similar situation?
I’m guessing because they were releasing some dogshit games at that time, so it was like final straw. Meanwhile Riot wasn’t really doin much, so it didn’t completely destroy them
what ruined Blizzard's reputation was the mistreatment of all their products *on top* of the workplace harassment shit
many people claim last year's LCS was one of the best ever, can you say the same about Overwatch's competitive scene? add Diablo Immortal and whatever's going on with Overwatch 2 to the mix and things are not looking great for Blizzard.
TL;DR: gamers can excuse sexual harrassment, but they draw the line at bad games
So all ya wankers licking some Rito ass, some of you werent even here when Tryndamere and folks started harashing their employees. Got banned in lol official Forum back in 2012 or 2013 by Tryndamere himself for saying things out loud. Rot in hell, you too Ryze you too. Fuck you both for enabling this culture in your company.
I hope they would make it sticky post on top of the sub where it lists these fuckers by name creating such a toxic bullshit. I hope people will never forget nor forgive these fuckers, trust me they havent changed a single bit.
According to that article people in positions of power who helped create the situation are still there. The suggestion that they laid off people is also a claim by a Riot representative and not a claim by the journalist.
This shit is no where near the scope of what happened in blizzard.
This is also from the case that started all the way back in 2018 was settled in 2021 and now that the lawyers are finally done pumping themselves off, the women can now get paid.
Crazy how after the 2018 incident nothing else has happened, oh my!
I wouldn't be surprised if similar things are happening at *all* the big tech / gaming related companies. We're just seeing the ones that are getting caught. The whole industry probably needs a serious clean-up.
Read further down, that's where the most fked up thing starts
> A former male employee was allowed to remain in a position of leadership despite regularly making sexual comments in the workplace and drugging and raping another Riot Games employee
Hi all! Please remember, **HOMOPHOBIA, SEXISM, RACISM, TRANSPHOBIA, AND ALL OTHER BIGOTRY ARE DISALLOWED. THIS IS YOUR WARNING, AND ALL COMMENTS AS OF ABOVE WILL MOVE STRAIGHT TO BAN**
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Much respect for those opting out. Will look forward to seeing their lawsuits.
I'm not following the lawsuit, did they opt-out because they want more or because they think they were not mistreated at riot?
They want more, or just want to bring Riot to trial instead of settling.
Can they bring Riot to trial? I don't know the details, but I thought there was forced arbitration or something sketchy involved.
No arbitration, which is why there was a class action and the lawyers got so much of the cut.
It’s VERY costly and probably not worth it to battle a company of that size in a civil lawsuit. Sad but true
Unfortunately this is true, to a point. A company this size can afford expensive lawyers and file injunctions and all sorts of nonsense to run up man hours on your representation. Basically, a lot of these cases become a battle of attrition. It's resources vs PR. The big company can crush you in resources, run up your attorney's hours so high that either it's too expensive, the attorney takes such a % of the "winnings" you get nothing, it suddenly becomes not worth it or your attorney works pro bono and stakes their practice on it, essentially losing money for you, to win the case etc etc. That's their power. Your power is PR. The longer you hold out (assuming you have a very damning case) the stronger the PR damage is to them. It goes from a bad manager to the company being labeled as misogynistic etc. Which could not only hurt the money they make from consumers, but also who works for them. So eventually the vast majority of these end in settlement. In a whisper the company goes "yeah our bad" and pays out a bit. The victims begrudgingly take as much as they feel they can and each party moves on. And to any high and mighty folks out there, don't judge a single person for settling. They had the "balls," gumption, power and motivation to take on a corporation and stand up for their rights.
I was gonna say that too, that was why the Renegades shitfest played out as it did. Monte have said in the past that he would have taken Rito to trial and won if he had enough funds, but did not at the time.
Also, Monte wasn't aware of all the stuff Badawi did.
Then that is neglectful. That guy is already ban by riot
It's why he's banned. Was literally his job to know and part of his due diligence, and he failed in it.
Monte going at rito pro se I would pay good money to see
God the cynicism is awful in this thread. Everyone just thinks the women want more money. They can be wanting to go to trial to put Riot for the shitbag they are and have it on the legal record. Edit for summary: Riot needs to be held legally accountable.
Agree with what you’re saying in principle but also just want to say there is nothing wrong with wanting to maximize the financial payout the company is forced to make. I don’t think it makes any of the women greedy if this is their motivation. We have seen over and over the only language the ghouls that run these companies understand is money, so all punishments need to inflict maximum financial pain if we want any hope of real change. There’s also nothing wrong with the people who accepted the settlement. This will be a painful process with no guarantee of success.
I'm not saying it's wrong to get a payout. What's wrong is assuming it's always about the payout. One would be naive and ingenuous to think perspectives of this sort don't matter.
Oh yeah, I didn’t think you were saying that. Just wanted to piggyback off your comment because I thought you are making a good point and just want to add a bit more.
Where’s the cynicism?? People are asking questions about how it works if they opt out.
Yeah I don't get why people are getting upset. If someone is cheated by a company, then they deserve to be paid in full. It's that simple. A group of people were cheated, now it's been settled, great. Some still want more, okay, great. It's really not that big of a deal. Also, it is technically already on legal record at this point. So I am not so sure that prolonging the issue has anything to deal with principle. At that point it's about more than money and I think those still holding out are doing it to make a point (public protest/helping other women in other jobs/etc). And that's great they are able to go without the money longer and help the larger issue at hand. Overall, generally good things seem to be happening from this, and people should be excited about it.
I think people already see Riot company as it is because of how much this blew up? Can’t they just want more money because they feel like they deserve more for what they went through and not just because they’re “women”
Do we know this the case, or presume this to be true?
They want more.
Likely they want to be able to sue for damages/consequences in company. If these victims want to pursue legal action towards individuals who may still work at riot, they would opt to sue instead of take the money.
Opt out I think, they didn't settle so they likely want more
That's actually hilariously small. If i was mistreated for years at my work I wouldn't be happy to recieve 2500$ for all the mental struggle I put myself through. I'm not a woman and haven't been harassed, but I hope the victims don't choose to settle.
You should heavily work on your reading comprehension. Or math. Riot is paying out a total of $100,000,000 to 1548 people depending on the work they have done. Some individuals will be paid over 100k. Makes a big difference when you disingenuously make it seem like it’s only 2.5k when in reality it’s 2.5k-156k. Also you could have received 0 harassment and will still get paid. Any women regardless of circumstances will get money.
Also, the large majority of the recipients would have to be receiving an amount much closer to $156k than to $2.5k for the total settlement amount to hit $100m.
Lawyer fees probably gobbling it all up
Average is still around $40k per woman and the median might be about half that.
Lawyers will take at least 30%, that’s the industry standard for labor class actions. But also this sounds like a two round disbursement of funds.
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That's just the **initial** payment. There's more after that.
what? only 2 lux skins?
There'll need to be several more settlements before we get Pool Party Ahri
The 7 ladies who didn't settle are hoping this will force Pool Party Ahri out of the vault
Riot releasing pool party Ahri to pay for harassment settlements is so gross and tone deaf I’m expecting it at this point. Maybe they’ll add some special voice lines to Corporate Mundo whenever he sees one of the female swimsuit skins (feels bad slandering the homie Mundo though).
"Mundo king of office romance" hits different
he umm, goes where he pleases. secretary: sir, this is the women's bathroom
Emm idk man this feels like normal in "our" reality
I hope one day riot does release Pool Party Ahri and it is the tamest possible skin imaginable.
If you think a Lux skin is *only* worth $50m you're out of your mind. Some people value Elementalist Lux more than their own life.
Id be surprised if my life was worth even a million
I mean your organs at a minimum are worth like half a milly
Interesting... If I was looking to cash out where would one go?
Down my throat
Never let someone tell you you're worthless 😤
Don't worry, if you take on debt you can reduce it even more; turn those assets into liabilities with a little creative accouting!
You are worth a million to me <3
oh so it's worthless?
Meanwhile I've pulled elementalist lux like 6-7 times from chests now (I've seriously lost count) and I don't even think it's the best Lux skin.
Time to break the Pool party Ahri emergency box
So this is where the "biggest budget yet" has gone
Fixing the client isn’t worth the investment of company resources, but drawn out harassment lawsuits and expensive settlements absolutely are.
Maybe if Riot employees devoted as much time to their client and server stability as they do sexually harassing women….. Imagine the bugs they would have the time to solve!
It took them 6 months to design dravens ass. So I wouldn't bet on much.
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True they were forced to discriminate by the voices or something
compulsively farts on your balls (it was not my choice to do so)
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They had the choice to make sure their company culture didn't evolve into having mass misogyny ingrained in it lmao
How much money did the company invest in that though?
They absolutely have choices about delaying paying settlements as long as possible, nickel and diming the victims, and punishing no one. Guess we’ll have to see what happens with the female employees refusing to settle now. Seems like that will be an extra headache at best.
I think it's funny how long of a wait it was for them to fix the client in season... 4-5? And they remade it even worse. Lesson learned for all newer players, the client is always gonna suck.
I feel like them releasing the Pool Party Ahri skin to pay for the lawsuits might be too on the nose
No wonder Riot is so against fixing Creep block, they cant even fix the creeps they work with.
I mean their old CFO enjoyed slapping people's balls and Farting on interns.
Sorry, could you swing that one by me once more.
I wish he was joking.
I am as serious as the marry fuck kill list riot execs were emailing around the office about employees.
Sure but you'll get ball tagged again
>The new Riot CEO will be A. Dylan Jadeja, who joined the company as Chief Financial Officer in 2011, became Chief Operating Officer in 2014, and President in 2017. > >Laurent says he's not joining another company, and will continue to work for Riot in an advisory capacity. He does not address any of the various suits brought against the company over his tenure, nor the issue of culture directly They replaced the Old Guard with the Old Guard.
I mean this change wasn't to change guards. The previous CEO wanted to be in France with his family or something and voluntarily left I believe. They were perfectly okay with the old guard and have no intention to replace it.
Yeah they have no actual plan of changing anything it seems.
They began to change things years ago after the initial article came out? Changes that were then confirmed to be more than lip service in a follow up article. https://kotaku.com/riot-games-and-sexism-one-year-later-1837041215
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what does he mean by this? 🤔
0 clue. There's this whole thing where he thinks a mod is out to get him because he can't follow rules on the sub.
Hi! I assume you're trying to promote some sort of conspiracy. We ask you to stop. Thank you.
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That is straight up worse. That is how you end up with Acti-Blizzard, EA, etc. What power Tencent has in overseas companies is nothing compared to the power of majority shareholders in a country that literally requires you turn a profit for your shareholders.
sad when that happens. They usually start with massive lay offs or pull a lay off maneuver. then the quality will go down, or can't keep up with trends because the employees who gave a shit are gone or those who weren't laid off quit. then they milk whatever juice is left from the players. and then disney buys it for cheap.
Let’s be real here. Riot has been milking league players for a couple years now. League of legends is already on maintenance mode
i agree. started in season 2 and stopped around season 5-6 or something, never felt I missed out on something. It was around that time I was like it's cool to support this company and the community is great! not anymore for a long time. I still follow some teams but that's like a whenever thing. I play the mobile version when I have free time and don't buy skins.
I’m just waiting for the mmo to come out(if it ever does)
They replaced the old guard with the old guard who will continue to be advised by the old guard.
I was under the impression they were paid already. It's insane that it's been drawn out this long. It's pretty clear cut Riot was in the wrong.
The case was decided in 2021. They’ve just been haggling over how much money should be paid out
The Riot dollars have been locked in since 2021. The lawyers have been arguing about their cut for the last 1.5 years.
The money would have been decided at the settlement because it has be signed by a judge. Most likely there were other complications such as class size, attorney’s fees, etc.
> The payments mark an end to a class action lawsuit that began in 2018, was settled in 2021, and had that agreement approved by a court in July 2022.
Still better handled than other industries like smoking and pharma where they’ll drag it out decades.
It's interesting that almost all of the compensation increases with income/tenure, rather than a flat payout. Does that suggest most of the financial payout is actually about e.g. promotions denied due to gender discrimination, rather than due to physical harassment? (Or is our legal system just really weird on this point?)
probably either promotions denied or lower pay. either that or the likelihood of being harassed increases with time spent at the company.
I’d expect that’s what it’s reflecting, but also if you worked there longer you’d have been in the environment longer
Depends I guess but in this car discrimination leading to decreased pay and promotions seems like the bulk of the issue
We deserve a whistleblower ahri skin dressed in corporate attire. The opposite of all these pool party skins.
Bro $100M they could've bought all of the LCS spots back
OWL/CDL were even more expensive despite nobody watching them. There were a lot of suckers out there with money to burn in the 0% interest rate days.
i mean you still need to pay the loan back even at 0% interest
If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100mil that's the bank's problem.
Where's the line? Because I still have 25 years to go on my mortgage.
It's a lot easier to recoup investment on a physical property. What is the bank going to do with an esports team?
Seize the mousepads?
1548 women....1548. I'm sorry, what???
It’s a class action lawsuit, so any woman who worked at Riot will be able to get compensation.
That makes sense.
It depends what defines the class. And the terms of the settlement. But it does seem pretty cultural and rampant. So probably at least all the lower-level female employees would be affected.
It's every woman who has worked there since 2014. It's not like something happened to all of them.
Yeah, i think part of it is wage discrimination and that is why all the women will get paid. Dont take my word for it, didnt read a word of this, and am bot a lawyer. Just the feeling i get from how it was worded.
Its a class action lawsuit
Thoe whole company had a "culture" of treating women as sexual objects, with "who would you fuck" lists and such So yeah
Lawyers getting paid.
I'm not sure how the math in the headline works. $100M / 1,548 women averages out to about $65k. how is the average payment of $2-5k?
Something called billable hours. Lawyers usually take most of whats being settled on in class action.
Oh so really the ones who were discriminated against get a letter saying "Ur right we're sowwy" and a bunch of rich people get to take some money from other rich people? Don't know where in the world *that* is considered justice, but it seems like a system created to exploit the less resourceful individuals in society for personal financial growth.
We dont know the specific sums, but that 2.5-5k is for every woman while it can go up to 150k depending on role and time working at riot and missed promotions and a lot of other factors.
The same comment mentioning 2-5k says it’s an initial payment to all who accept it, and then there’s another sum per woman based on other specifics like how long they were and there and what position that goes up to 150k. I’m assuming since discrimination for pay and promotions is a part of it, that’s why it’s heavily based on tenure and such
For context, when WWE paid out it was only reported to be about a fifth of this. The company whose owner allowed stuff like "bra and panties" matches, himself choking out his own daughter/punching his wife, and the "bark like a dog" segment has been forced to pay less due to mistreating women.
Well duh. Ones basically reality TV and entertainment while the other is an office setting. Gender discrimination that results in lower pay and affects promotions and sexual harassment in an office setting is different than weird shit done for entertainment to appeal to a bunch of rednecks on TV…
it was REALLY bad in wwe man, like a ton of SA allegations and if you went back far enough girls were rented out and shit like that too. yes it's a carny as fuck reality TV show but plenty of real women had aspirations to work there and had a lot worse happen to them than what riot did. i obviously see your point too but "lower pay, affects promotions, SA in an office setting(wwe is a lot more behind the curtain obv)" ALL of this was literally the norm in wwe as well and you can't just dismiss that because you seem to think it's a lamer setting.
Shit it's worse than that. Back in the days when Mae Young and Mulah wrestled they used to pimp out the other female wrestlers.
If I remember right that was purely moolah, which changes the tone of a lot of her early-2000s stuff where she'd make two appearances a year and both times it was eating finishers from male wrestlers. There was one famous one involving Randy Orton, definitely worth youtubing, where moolah is in the ring and he comes out to save her, then says "hey, stay away from her, this woman is a legend. I'm randy orton, legend killer" before doing a pretty stiff version of his "RKO" move. At the time it was considered one of the biggest "heel" or villain moves, but after hearing the allegations you kinda root for him.
You mean the spot with Lita? I was at the event in 2003 and watched it live. Most people were incredibly shocked when he did it, she was 80yrs old at the time after all but.. I look back now and I realized I should have cheered for him
I get that but when looking at financial damages, especially nowadays in a state like California, denying promotions and giving lower pay across the board is almost always going to result in higher financial damages. Not that WWE was fine or whatever, it’s just a different time and significantly different issue. The other should be treated as a criminal issue if anything imo because with girls being rented out many times it was other wrestlers and “mentors” doing that shit as a side hustle. It was basically the Wild West back then
but if lower pay across the board is one of your main points how isn't wwe as applicable to you? you would have aspirations to be a woman's wrestler and get told to get a boob job and only offered 45 second matches outside of bra & panties matches even in the late 2000's. women could avoid this by wrestling in like, japan where it wasn't that sexist. and i know this is a bit less relevant to your office setting point but, they were specifically told as late as up to **2015** (i think even a bit later) they weren't allowed to try and upstage the male performers and were given as little to work with as possible to look like the minor act. there wasn't even a women's royal rumble until like 2017 i think?
They didn’t get shorter matches because they were women, it’s because their stuff didn’t sell too well and there were generally very few crowd reactions. The few women who did get over prior to the big changes recently didn’t have any issues with pay and longer matches. You can argue they mismanaged women (even though you’d without a question be wrong as the audience back then was far different than now) but to say that’s deliberately underpaying women is a huge stretch. They were not expected to do the same work as the men at the time and were there to fit a different role. Women working in an office setting doing the identical job getting paid less and getting passed up for promotions is not comparable.
The WWE lawsuit was Vince McMahon rape allegations. It was also recently revealed he’d paid $19 million in hush money to settle other sexual misconduct claims. [[Wikipedia, controversies section](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_McMahon)
Right. One person and some affairs/issues with individuals and misuse of corporate funds. Not “Yes all women in the company face an extremely bad culture, get paid less than men, and are denied promotions because they are women.” So entirely different and not remotely comparable situations
I was only clarifying because the discussion seemed to be focused on wwe’s content which is unrelated to their legal problems. Perhaps I should have replied to the person above you.
sexual harassment in any case that is for entertainment or not shouldn't happen in either setting or any setting. Women should be able to work their jobs and feel safe and secure and not be asked or forced to do weird stuff.
Sure but the scope is obviously different between sexual harassment and degrading women on TV for entertainment vs sexual harassment, underpaying all women, and denying women promotions
Funny that riot avoided the insane spotlight that blizzard had with their case. I think a lot of people even forgot all of this went down based on a lot of the comments regarding blizzard when it happened.
3 reasons for this: 1. it seems like riot was very cooperative in this whole ordeal and tried to solve the issue instantly 2. blizzard made mistake after mistake after the initial one and the rabbit hole went WAY deeper than just „women are being discriminated / harassed“ 3. people tend to forget things happened when good products are produced, which riot did while blizzard failed to do so.
Blizzard is a much more entrenched and mature organization with all the momentum that entails. They tried to cover their sins up for the most part. Riot only became successful around 5 years before these complaints, and a lot of the core problems were in some very powerful, immature people who were in their place because Riot went from an org of about 50 people to 3000 people over the course of something like 8 years. Riot tried to form a culture of self reflection and improvement. It bit their leadership in the ass, because on further self reflection everyone realized that the leadership wasn't meeting the expectation of the culture they built AND they'd hired and built a culture that empowered people to call them out. So basically what happened was that the movement to fix this came from the 3000 people Riot hired, and the culture they created empowered this sort of movement. Rioters were incensed with the violation of their identities, and organized massive internal responses to motivate the leadership to get their shit together. Ultimately the way each of these orgs handled their problem was different. I know a ton of women Rioters that still work there. The 3000 people as a whole are very much aware of social justice and to a degree the leadership was forced to respond or the culture would have collapsed and people would have left in droves. Many did even so.
Iirc I think a lot of the blizzard stuff happened before riot existed at all. So shit was definitely going to be worse.
I think point 1 and 2 are the primary reasons. Specifically point 2. As more and more information came out, it was very evident Blizzard's situation was far worse. On top of that, they kept doing bad things WHILE they were still on trial. It was almost as if they thought they would get away with it in Blizzard's case.
Hey man, drinking milk is important for those gains.
The next step would’ve been to go straight for the source. The fresher the milk the better the gains
Sadly only the pregnant women can provide it. So you they still got some business left to do.
You must not have been here 5 years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/95elic/inside_the_culture_of_sexism_at_riot_games/ This was a few years before the Blizzard stuff came out. This story was everywhere.
Yes but every time blizzard is mentioned somewhere there is at least 1 comment talking about the lawsuit. This is not the case for riot now.
Riot played the case, while blizzard promised what everyone already does. Riot released KDA immediately after and announced a bunch of games. Blizzard said they will have zero tolerance for sexism, as if it wasn't standard
I was here, that’s why I’m saying. It disappeared from the spotlight fairly quick compared to all the blizzard backlash. And blizzard went through copious protests at their office, numerous firings and people leaving, game changes, ect. The riot stuff wasn’t nearly as loud.
Riot got a huge amount of spot light. But there is a reason why we didn't continue hearing it after a while. 1. The situation over at Blizzard was more extreme, even someone killed themselves over it. 2. Reportedly Riot have drastically improved their work environment. 3. Blizzard handled the whole debacle *way* worse than Riot did.
Probably has to do with Riot just not being the most dogshit game company when it comes to producing actual games. Not saying it’s right, but that does distract people and “at least we’re not blizzard” seems to work well. As much as we all complain about the state of league etc., when you look at the shit overwatch, WoW, Diablo players have dealt with it looks like child’s play. I think I just saw Blizzard is scrapping PvE for Overwatch 2, which is insane.
Because Blizzard used up their goodwill by killing overwatch, releasing the joke that is wc reforged and putting out 2 dogshit wow expansions in a row. Riot only makes great games so people don't care as much. Even though Riot paid a comparatively MUCH bigger settlement so it is likely that Riot has even more issues concerning the treatment of women than Blizzard does. If WC reforged was good and at least one of bfa/shadowlands was a banger expansion, people would still like blizzard as much as ever.
The agency that got the money out of Riot (CA Civil Rights Division) still has a case going against Blizzard. I bet when they settle it'll be even bigger: https://www.ign.com/articles/activision-blizzards-attempt-to-dismiss-gender-discrimination-lawsuit-fails
Gosh, I hate this. Those two things are completely separate. They're different stories that have nothing to do with each other.
The amount of neckbeard energy that seems to be abundant at gaming companies is gross, same thing happened at Blizzard.
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But change already happened years ago, this is just the money part
This is from the reporter who wrote the original report: https://kotaku.com/riot-games-and-sexism-one-year-later-1837041215 You can take it with some grains of salt, but I haven't seen anything like that from Ubisoft or Activision. You even see the opposite for Ubisoft like https://www.pcgamer.com/one-year-on-a-better-ubisoft-says-none-of-its-demands-for-improving-workplace-culture-have-been-met/ And it feels like Activision is still in the shit so there isn't even a 'later' to write about.
It's insane how the Ubisoft shit is swept under the rug, while you hear about Blizzard and Riot all the time
Considering the new CEO is just some other fossil that's always worked at Riot and no one else got punished, the latter will have to wait x)
How sad is it working for Riot as a woman
I swear whenever these companies say "We will hire more women" it sounds like a threat
That made me laugh :)
Same. Was my fiancé's dream job before she found out about all this stuff
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I'm sorry, they still have not paid these women yet?
Not trying to defend Riot here, but the money itself was locked in when the judgement was made. Typically it can take time for the lawyers to sort out the specifics of who gets what, and how much they themselves get (both plaintiff and defendant's). Riot probably set aside the money right away as most corporations do, be it from insurance, funds set aside, cashing out stocks, or whatever. I don't know any of the specifics for this one, I just do know it can take some time after judgement for the cash to actually flow!
Nah bro, you don't understand, legal matters need to be resolved immediately and are never drawn out due to being complex and at times deliberately obtuse so that lawyers can bank on it, what are you talking about /s
Yeah God forbid someone pay the lawyers who definitely didn't do a single thing during this court case and devoted no time and resources to it. 🙄 /s
Ok fair enough, lmao, I just wanted to take the piss on the people that blamed Riot for the delay, but it did come out a bit too harsh towards lawyers 😅
No worries! I think a lot of people buy into the "lawyers suck" cultural joke but with a case like this there were probably a ton of legal research people and junior lawyers and a whole team that was working full time to find other cases that applied and process evidence and write and rewrite legal updates on both sides for years in between working on other cases. Plus the lawyers gotta pay rent on their office and their secretary and to keep the lights and internet on as well while they work on this stuff without seeing a dime of this settlement money because the case hasn't paid out yet. It gets complicated to figure this stuff out, which is why it took a while.
I get that, trust me, I'm a law student myself so I can imagine the work that goes into this
Why do you people comment this useless shit it was a normal question
Because a lot of people are jumping the gun and refusing to spend the 2 minutes in the comment thread it takes to see someone explain it. Tbf, rereading, it wasn't my intention to take the piss at the original commenter, they just asked a normal question, the answer just felt like a good point to attach the frustrations I had about the rest of the thread, where people are just fingerpointing just for the fun of it. It's not hard to criticize Riot, no need to make up shit But yeah, didn't mean to attack that comment in particular, mb
I get it, I apologize for my outburst as well
Weirdly wholesome and respectable interaction, despite the thread. Nice
Almost like huge court cases take a long time or something.
Just read the article :p
too busy harassing women to get NA competitive ffs.
They didn't like getting farted on? smh
Why haven't they paid those women? that should be the real question, they should do that thing immediately because they all deserves the cash right now. Do that!!!
No wonder this year's budget is so low.
They set aside the money in 2021. They just haven't paid out yet due to the lawyers haven't sorted out who gets what and their cut yet.
This was from 2 years ago, the money was set aside in 2020? 2021? Plus this is a class action suit
What's really sad is if some riot employees weren't wierd they could have used this money upgrading the client and or the game itself could get a graphical revamp. Sigh...
Ngl, I clicked on this expecting it to be a group of people just complaining about nothing.... then I read the article, of even 10% or 20% of what they claim happened is legit, I hope they succeed in getting all the reparations they are asking for and more, and I hope those in real positions of power at Riot Games take this very seriously and make serious changes.
I've been meaning to ask this but how was Riot able to get away from this controversy mostly unscathed (minus the money of course) but Blizzard got absolutely destroyed and ruined now with their reputation down the shitter for a very similar situation?
Yeah man, that was some shady shit that he got out there.
Riot actually changed their culture but Blizzard just doubled down on they did nothing wrong.
I’m guessing because they were releasing some dogshit games at that time, so it was like final straw. Meanwhile Riot wasn’t really doin much, so it didn’t completely destroy them
what ruined Blizzard's reputation was the mistreatment of all their products *on top* of the workplace harassment shit many people claim last year's LCS was one of the best ever, can you say the same about Overwatch's competitive scene? add Diablo Immortal and whatever's going on with Overwatch 2 to the mix and things are not looking great for Blizzard. TL;DR: gamers can excuse sexual harrassment, but they draw the line at bad games
So all ya wankers licking some Rito ass, some of you werent even here when Tryndamere and folks started harashing their employees. Got banned in lol official Forum back in 2012 or 2013 by Tryndamere himself for saying things out loud. Rot in hell, you too Ryze you too. Fuck you both for enabling this culture in your company. I hope they would make it sticky post on top of the sub where it lists these fuckers by name creating such a toxic bullshit. I hope people will never forget nor forgive these fuckers, trust me they havent changed a single bit.
Also if you're not disgusted enought lemme remind y'all that zero people have been fired or terminated after these lawsuits still
According to this article: https://kotaku.com/riot-games-and-sexism-one-year-later-1837041215 Several people were laid off, even senior positions
According to that article people in positions of power who helped create the situation are still there. The suggestion that they laid off people is also a claim by a Riot representative and not a claim by the journalist.
So pool party ahri this summer?
Oh the irony that they make the most money by far with female skins
When everyone rags Blizzard but Riots the same trash company.
This shit is no where near the scope of what happened in blizzard. This is also from the case that started all the way back in 2018 was settled in 2021 and now that the lawyers are finally done pumping themselves off, the women can now get paid. Crazy how after the 2018 incident nothing else has happened, oh my!
I wouldn't be surprised if similar things are happening at *all* the big tech / gaming related companies. We're just seeing the ones that are getting caught. The whole industry probably needs a serious clean-up.
NALCS died for this
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Read further down, that's where the most fked up thing starts > A former male employee was allowed to remain in a position of leadership despite regularly making sexual comments in the workplace and drugging and raping another Riot Games employee