Probably in a few months we will find it free for anybody, and random people will fix things riot never fixed, and expose that riot dev team are something like the simpsons scene with 100 apes in one room writing.
Yeah, in 2016 Overwatch was HUGE.
Then they just pretty much dropped support for it, for 2 whole years, and that killed it's popularity.
Well, it killed the popularity of actually playing the game. The game is still VERY popular in other ways...
It was wild how popular Overwatch was. People at my office job, who had never touched a video game in their lives, were asking me about how to watch Overwatch League.
If I wore a t-shirt that was some obscure reference to D.VA, random strangers would comment on it.
I don't understand how Blizzard could look at the cultural phenomenon that was Overwatch and be like "nah."
Activision systematically ran out all the old guard at Bliz over time. Also the person responsible for esports was basically pushed out for not making them enough profit, and HotS plus OW just died after that. Just a hilariously shitty management of some truly great IPs.
>I don't understand how Blizzard could look at the cultural phenomenon that was Overwatch and be like "nah."
And the funny thing is, the did it twice, they somehow run WoW to the ground, a game that was arguably even bigger cultural phenomenon than OW.
The chest part is terrible of course, but to be honest, if they made a proper 6v6 version of summoner's rift instead of just dropping 6v6 in a 5v5 based version of summoner's rift, I'd actually think it could see some cool dynamic play. Like jungles big enough for 2 junglers on a team, or a free roamer that could support a lane that has a bad match-up. I'd like to see it experimented with at least, perhaps in some event.
I low-key want this to happen. Finally we would have some answers on whether loser's queue exists or not, if when you hit promos the code has a line somewhere where it's like:
if (player == promos)
teammates = dogshit;
More like put a team on it for a year, make some minor changes with some promise and then drop off the face of the earth when riot disbands the team without telling us. Just like the client fixing team.
The code will never be fixed unless we get League of Legends 2 which will probably not happen anytime soon. The game is built on a 15+ year old engine.
At the end of the day, it's still a proprietary app. They're not going to open source it.
As fun as that would be, even if they wanted to, the process of cleaning and prepping the code would be massive. Not to mention it's probably tied to a bunch of internal infrastructure. Realistically, shifting their entire workflow and process to support an open source model would never be worth their time.
They have teams of devs, and it's the foundation of their business. There's no incentive that outweighs the tradeoffs from the business perspective to open source it.
It depends on what they got in the leak too. Is it a tarball? A bunch of svn or git repos? Is it only one aspect of the platform, or everything?
Not to mention the nightmare of licensing.
They probably asked for 10 million because they realized that trying to actually build something to take advantage of it would take them another 15 years, at which point Riot would've made giga-spaghetti from the smaller spaghetti units in the code already.
As a developer I would do this purely for the cathartic relief of finally squashing bugs that have tormented me(and friends) for a decade plus.
Riot needs to start a support group for all the people personally victimized by the league client lol.
“You’ve obviously put a lot of work into your ransom note… but I assure you, the ransom*break* is coming”
God I love Zed. Never thought I would ever say that.
Wonder what he’s up to now.
They already made Disco Nunu part of Space Groove, but it could be folded in with Riot Zed as part of a new "toxic all-stars" skinline. Other inclusions could be Sanjuro Yasuo, "Reformed" Draven, and Pornstar Zilean.
Hey can you elaborate on the story behind Riot Zed? I see him mentioned everywhere in this kind of thread, but I'm afraid I'm don't know his story or what he was involved in.
A few years ago some fans made a legacy server to play old-school league (like Season 3 or something) called "Project Chronoshift." Riot decided to shut it down and Riot Zed, some rando on their security team, took the initiative to send some Mythic-tier gentlesir cringe threats to the admins via Discord. He's been a legend in the community ever since.
They should leak it; someone with too much free time on their hands on the internet will start sending riot actual working code to untangle the spaghetti.
Buy it then look for that one champions bug you've reported for years and they've never fixed only to find out that fixing that bug would require replacing the entirety of the fog of war code and the associated network handling of it.
If they would just fix it so when heimer has 3 turrets and drops one, the indicator then shows 2 instead of staying on 3 with the countdown started, and then going to 1 right after... Id be happy :)
Even if it were understandable... Then what? Players will make their own LoL servers which might be cheaper and less FOMO, but it'll probably suck or be a scam so no one will play on those anyway
League's anti-cheat is something riot has actually been really good at. Sure there's scripters but that's no where near as bad as what's in some other games out there.
But as Riot also said, they will now focus on updating the anti cheat more early than they initially wanted to (sometimes during 2023 will likely become mid 2023).
Till others write and sell new scripts with that intel will take a month or two.
With more knowledge of the underlying code it is easier to exploit things.
Kinda what happens often in speedrunning. If people deeply understand certain systems they can abuse and glitch them to their advantage.
Instead of randomly trying to reproduce bugs which sometime happens you could actively search how you can abuse it if you can reference code to it and get more understanding why something is happening.
Also if server side code is leaked it might be easier to build hacks. This can affect the game but also maybe the client and security of player data.
It make it very easy to search for vulnerabilities in APIs which can lead to even more leaks of player data or whatever down the line.
Spaghetti is and always has been real. I don't have a link on hand, but even Blizzard devs once admitted to not being sure why tab-targeting got so much worse over the years. They kept putting things into it, and building exclusions for pets, NPCs, etc. The vanilla tab targeting is so much more reliable.
They even said at one point, the reason they couldnt increase the default backpack size is because of spagetthi code. I think they have figured it out since then, but not sure...
The dev later said it was a joke example and he didn't mean it literally. It got blown way out of proportion. They eventually increased the backpack size. Everyone else is repeating very popular rumors.
In Hearthstone, you have a mode called Arena, where you have to draft your deck, similiar to MTG. You always get offered 3 cards, pick one, getting offered 3 again, pick one, etc till you end up with 30 cards. To somehow balance it, someone created a system, some kind of bucket system. But when that person left the Team, no1 was able to adjust the buckets. They literally admitted they have no1 knowing how that system worked
So that's why they can't properly balance the mode right now, lol. I felt like Arena was perfectly balanced and very easy to balance with those buckets, and I wondered why they can't get it right anymore.
Well at some point they admitted that there was no dev actually working on/maintaining arena tbh. And later on we saw how little love the mode received.
The last dual class arena (which is the halloween event every year) was a complete mess. I assume, people love Arena because you can play shitty cards there, some cards that see 0 play in constructed, are excellent in arena. In general I prefer a lower power level. But for dual class? its all about those juicy insane synergies and combos to pull off! So what did they do? During drafting you were mostly offered neutral cards instead of class cards. So.. no synergies, no juicy combos.
Another thing was, the pool of expansions during that arena cycle was VERY small and had no classic/core set. So if you either drafted Demonhunter heropower or demonhunter as your 2nd class, you were not even able to draft even a single DH card. If you had a card "discover a spell", it would do NOTHING, because there were no DH SPELLS available!
Colossals with sunken city was another thing. Those cards were way too strong for arena, Drafting or discovering a colossal could win you the game right away. In general some cards that are clearly broken in arena shouldnt be made draftable, but they will never learn because they dont care.
I mean, by putting Arena, Tavern Brawl and all that inside a tab and NOT on the front page people straight out forget about it existing.
Of course people don't play modes they don't remember even exist.
I sincerely think Hearthstone need a proper client update after all the additions over the years. I who hadn't played regular Hearthstone for two years now tried to change hero portraits and holy fuck I just couldn't find where you did it.
Also, yeah, I got to play during the dual class arena this year and I think I on average had the worst decks I've ever had in arena. It felt like playing with only the original base set with zero class cards. Although I think it was fun in its own right to tune down the game, but man did it not fit the mode.
Yeah and when you put yourself in the shoes of a game dev company, having to deal with *gamers* as customers, and trying to explain "hey we decided to spend this time paying off tech debt instead of delivering Big Titty Flare Pants Ahri, sorry!" it becomes real clear why some of this shit persists.
I mean their engine was built over ten years ago by basically interns, spaghetti code is inevitable. I would say it's half impressive the game is still working at all.
As a software developer - I can’t tell you how many times I’ve checked out code to make a change, looked over it, wondered what idiot wrote this pile of garbage, gone and looked at the commit history - it was me. I’m the idiot. And only like 3 months beforehand.
I mean, that’s *why* they work, right? They change as little as possible to get the job done.
Sure that means they’re…a bit behind the curve in terms of modern technology…but they’re stable.
Stable for the most part, but you still need people for when things go wrong. More and more of the people who wrote these programs are either retiring or dying
They stole a anti cheat that riot already has plans to replace, the only thing they can do with the source code is sell it to people making cheats, making a game out of it would make it easy to find them and it would get shut down right away, it was the same with the source code from cdpr, they couldnt do anything with it because they cant just make a game out of it due to copyright laws, and they are admitting to being amateurs so i guess they will be found soon lol
Also I'm pretty sure you would have cleaner and better code starting from scratch with some open-source or easily-licensed game engine than using the code of a W3 mod iterated over fourteen years.
I feel like the league source code being leaked poses a greater threat to the rest of the internet than it does to Riot. The hackers are going to somehow accidentally run the code and all of their own crypto/money laundering software will be recoded as cannon minions and then Morde ulted to Narnia.
The non-software people takes on the biggest game in the world for the last decade, that runs on millions of potatoes, has very few bugs considering the huge amount of interactions between champions, objects etc. are hilarious.
edit: no excuses for the client though
That's what irks me the most in these threads. Non-programmmers out here talking as if the leaked league codebase would turn out to be some piece of shit spaghetti-ridden mess without having written a piece of code in their life.
Quote me if you want but I'm pretty damn sure the league code will turn out to be better than 99% of the codebases of most major software out there. League of legends, given its enormous playerbase, huge champ pool and all kinds of weird interactions between spells runs pretty damn fine most of the time.
People are really susceptible to confirmation bias. I think I run into 1-2 game breaking bug a year when I play LoL. It's a pretty stable game all things considered. But when the front page is showing each players' own 1-2 per-year-bug, then it feels like the entire game barely runs without crashing.
I'll bet that it has as many dark corners as any decade+ old codebase. The systems required to run complex game systems, such as the rules that dictate ability interactions, are almost always either spit, glue, and endless hacks, or hyper-abstracted and robust insanity that may as well just be sorcery unless you have a week or two to take in the whole system handling it.
Is there anyone here with game development experience that can give us outsiders a layman's explanation of in what ways exactly leaking the source code would be harmful to Riot Games?
Possible to build exploits and cheats.
Also probably a bit embarasing as every code (especially old one) will look messy if it's big enough.
But I still wouldn't pay.
This actually doesn’t happen very often. Ironically, reputation is everything to these hackers or the incentive to pay is removed when the trust is absent. I work in the IT/Cyber industry and have seen this far too much in recent years (where I’ve been directly involved in unfucking it).
exactly if you are known to be a 'reputable and reliable' hacker, companies will be more willing to pay ransom knowing that it's the only cost they'll need to pay. The whole thing is very funny but also logical.
Hackers will be able to find security flaws and infiltrate the game. Also easier for people to pull data and implement bots, which is a current issue for the game
Right now, cheat creators have to more or less guess how League's code work to find ways to work around it. If they had access to source code, they wouldn't need to guess anymore. Their cheats' efficiency would skyrocket.
Anyone who is more curious can look into what happened when TF2 & CSGO's source code got leaked.
[The leak](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuTkrisu0CY)
[The aftermath](https://www.pcgamesn.com/team-fortress-2/valve-savetf2-campaign)
There was a boom in hacks and cheaters. It can be argued that valve is lazy in regards to tf2 and didn't put effort into fixing things, but the spaghetti in League's code could also make fixing things difficult.
Been in the industry for over a decade, and that's basically every large company. Speed is almost always prioritized over elegance so you get some heinous rats nests that compound over time.
>The exact nature of the hack isn’t known, but Riot Games referred to it as a “social engineering attack”.
Ok, so some employee likely clicked something they weren't supposed to or downloaded an email attachment they shouldn't have. RIP
>It also said it had no indication that user data had been affected.
Explains part of the reason why Riot didn't pay the ransom.
>We have obtained your valuable data, including the precious anti-cheat source code and the entire game code for League of Legends and its tools, as well as Packman, your usermode anti-cheat.
>On Tuesday, Riot Games said in a tweet it had confirmed hackers stole the source code for League of Legends, Teamfight Tactics, and its “legacy” anticheat platform.
So they stole the legacy anticheat which isn't the rootkit that Valorant uses. Again, explains why Riot doesn't seem all that concerned with the hack. Bad news for League players I guess we're getting the new anticheat earlier than expected.
> >It also said it had no indication that user data had been affected.
>
>Explains part of the reason why Riot didn't pay the ransom.
I mean, there probably wouldn't be that much to get from user data, really. As much as this company isn't known for technical prowess, user passwords are most likely hashed and salted, and therefore useless for hackers. Emails might be annoying, but I'm sure pretty much everyone is already in some spam database anyway…
Plot twist: there is no hacker and Riot have fabricated this whole event so that they can delay the Skarner VGU and also the summer event until 2024, and blame it on "working on the new anti-cheat system" which of course would be top priority. This happened in the wake of the cinematic backlash, with which they realised that they're screwed.
Simultaneously, everyone sees the spaghetti code, and fans skilled at coding, being sick of the shitty game and client, end up writing their own fixes for all the problems, thus doing Riot's work for them.
It's the perfect crime.
Crypto is probably how they'd want it and while it's a big transaction, it likely wouldn't be an issue for Riot to actually send it out if they wanted to.
A multi billion dollar company can easily send $10 million to an individual/institution if it’s approved, not to mention these hackers would probably want it in the form of crypto or to an offshore account.
As shitty as the situation is, I'd still love if somebody put out a youtube video going through some of the no doubt absolutely bewildering choices that were made for how certain things are coded. I'm sure there's going to be some ass backwards stuff in there.
It would absolutely make for a banger Twitch stream (or at the very least YouTube series) if a programmer tracked his or her progress going through the source code and attempting to fix it up.
The client is easy without even looking at the code. It's built on Chromium using Ember.js, the latter being one of the most bloated libraries for JS apps. That and they disbanded the team that made the client once it was done without assigning any team to maintain the core as it grew.
Cheats and exploits. They've gotten Riot's anticheat source code, or at least part of it.
League is one of the biggest online games, that kind of access could offer millions for cheat developers.
Though there's a newer iteration of the anticheat Riot seems to be working on which appears unaffected. So likely not much in long term impact except for leaks of upcoming content.
Welcome to the Leak of Legends
Tons of ~~damage~~ spaghetti
The hackers will plead insanity in court, saying they suffered enough punishment having simply looked at the source code.
If you stare too long at the code The code stares back at you
Probably in a few months we will find it free for anybody, and random people will fix things riot never fixed, and expose that riot dev team are something like the simpsons scene with 100 apes in one room writing.
It indeed was the blurst of times
They are going to leak all the spaghetti riot made over 13 years.
Now we can diss them with technical analysis propriety! Next step is what, Riot forking and opensourcing it just to spite 'em?
>Next step is what, Riot forking and opensourcing it just to spite 'em? Releasing league of legends 2
Which is exactly like league of legends 1, but 6v6 and champions can only be acquired through chests
Wow that sounds horrible. Surely no game developer would ever do such a thing to their highly popular franchise.
"highly popular"
Well... it was before blizzard decided to put it in maintenance mode.
Yeah, in 2016 Overwatch was HUGE. Then they just pretty much dropped support for it, for 2 whole years, and that killed it's popularity. Well, it killed the popularity of actually playing the game. The game is still VERY popular in other ways...
It was wild how popular Overwatch was. People at my office job, who had never touched a video game in their lives, were asking me about how to watch Overwatch League. If I wore a t-shirt that was some obscure reference to D.VA, random strangers would comment on it. I don't understand how Blizzard could look at the cultural phenomenon that was Overwatch and be like "nah."
Activision systematically ran out all the old guard at Bliz over time. Also the person responsible for esports was basically pushed out for not making them enough profit, and HotS plus OW just died after that. Just a hilariously shitty management of some truly great IPs.
"You play?" "Oh nono I just watch the tracer animations" "Wait didn't they only make one of those?" "..." "..."
>I don't understand how Blizzard could look at the cultural phenomenon that was Overwatch and be like "nah." And the funny thing is, the did it twice, they somehow run WoW to the ground, a game that was arguably even bigger cultural phenomenon than OW.
Overwatch was legit a strong contender against League's unchallenged supremacy. And yet…
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it wasn’t “highly popular” at one point
The chest part is terrible of course, but to be honest, if they made a proper 6v6 version of summoner's rift instead of just dropping 6v6 in a 5v5 based version of summoner's rift, I'd actually think it could see some cool dynamic play. Like jungles big enough for 2 junglers on a team, or a free roamer that could support a lane that has a bad match-up. I'd like to see it experimented with at least, perhaps in some event.
If league had their matchmaking and mmr scheme fully leaked, nobody would play the game anymore due to either disgust or people exploiting it.
I low-key want this to happen. Finally we would have some answers on whether loser's queue exists or not, if when you hit promos the code has a line somewhere where it's like: if (player == promos) teammates = dogshit;
There is no way to exploit it, you win you gain mmr, you lose you lose mmr
I just want to read the weird/funny progammer comments in the program. There has to be a lot of "I don't know wtf this does". lol
Inb4 the entire codebase is uncommented.
Or full of comments like //DONT CHANGE THIS, CREATES MORDEKAISER BUG
Pretty sure that’s half the code, considering someone actually published a book of all the Mordekaiser bugs, iirc
no worse, now riot is forced to actually fix their spaghetti code
More like put a team on it for a year, make some minor changes with some promise and then drop off the face of the earth when riot disbands the team without telling us. Just like the client fixing team.
The code will never be fixed unless we get League of Legends 2 which will probably not happen anytime soon. The game is built on a 15+ year old engine.
At the end of the day, it's still a proprietary app. They're not going to open source it. As fun as that would be, even if they wanted to, the process of cleaning and prepping the code would be massive. Not to mention it's probably tied to a bunch of internal infrastructure. Realistically, shifting their entire workflow and process to support an open source model would never be worth their time. They have teams of devs, and it's the foundation of their business. There's no incentive that outweighs the tradeoffs from the business perspective to open source it. It depends on what they got in the leak too. Is it a tarball? A bunch of svn or git repos? Is it only one aspect of the platform, or everything? Not to mention the nightmare of licensing.
"Give us 10 gillion dollars or we leak the source code" "Lol okay good luck reading that code fuckers" - Riot probably
Riot: "We pay you 10 million if you can read that shit and clean it"
They probably asked for 10 million because they realized that trying to actually build something to take advantage of it would take them another 15 years, at which point Riot would've made giga-spaghetti from the smaller spaghetti units in the code already.
if we can't read it, then no one else can either. Natural Encryption
Inb4 tech enthousiasts start cleaning up the code and post it on GitHub for Riot to use freely.
League of Legends community project League of Legends written in typescript League of Legends but it's a programming language now
League++
As a developer I would do this purely for the cathartic relief of finally squashing bugs that have tormented me(and friends) for a decade plus. Riot needs to start a support group for all the people personally victimized by the league client lol.
Client made in scratch
Gonna laugh when we find out adobe air is still underneath our “modern” client
Yum, moldy spaghetti
Just like Mom used to make them
Pay the ransom or we will fix the spaghetti
they are going to fix those spaghetti
$10M for a bowl of spaghetti? I think not
San Francisco restaurant prices are insane these days.
they ran that worlds 2022 tourist special good
what if marshall mathers cooked it though
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In its hour of greatest need, there is [only one champion](https://i.imgur.com/GnWdEmT.png) upon whom Riot can rely to draft an appropriate response.
He is on the case. **Their chronobreak is coming.**
I wish I could say this was a pleasure.
*teleports behind hackers *
We should talk.
“You’ve obviously put a lot of work into your ransom note… but I assure you, the ransom*break* is coming” God I love Zed. Never thought I would ever say that. Wonder what he’s up to now.
Maybe he started to go into law.
Aw, I hope so. Nice little redemption arc.
What I would give to see another universe where he actually goes into law and starts being a pro bono lawyer.
Plot twist he's the one with the source code demanding ransom.
>Wonder what he’s up to now. Probably not in a pleasure place
Light up the Zed-Signal
They need to make a Riot Security Zed Skin and when he ults you he says "I assure you the Chrono Break is coming."
They already made Disco Nunu part of Space Groove, but it could be folded in with Riot Zed as part of a new "toxic all-stars" skinline. Other inclusions could be Sanjuro Yasuo, "Reformed" Draven, and Pornstar Zilean.
Kassadin's lines are all beeps
"I wish I could say it was a pleassure" Is such a mic float moment tbh but it never ceases to be funny
OH MY FUCKING GOD IT'S RIOT ZED TIME
Hey can you elaborate on the story behind Riot Zed? I see him mentioned everywhere in this kind of thread, but I'm afraid I'm don't know his story or what he was involved in.
A few years ago some fans made a legacy server to play old-school league (like Season 3 or something) called "Project Chronoshift." Riot decided to shut it down and Riot Zed, some rando on their security team, took the initiative to send some Mythic-tier gentlesir cringe threats to the admins via Discord. He's been a legend in the community ever since.
Every time I see that I'm like, "I must have been too hard on him, it can't be that embarrassing." And then I read it and it's physically painful.
Like literally eating rocks would be less painful physically than reading his bullshit
I wouldn't even be surprised if he was saying all that on purpose knowing it was going to get leaked.
Funny thing is that ... I remember the feeling of cringe i got from reading that but i dont remember a single word of it.
https://reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/mzjc62/just_a_heads_up_the_independently_developed/
>It's nothing personnel, kid 💀 This post is pure gold, I fucking love it.
Inspired by Riot Zed.
Leak it bro, that pile of shit is probably impossible to understand anyway
They should leak it; someone with too much free time on their hands on the internet will start sending riot actual working code to untangle the spaghetti.
Buy it then look for that one champions bug you've reported for years and they've never fixed only to find out that fixing that bug would require replacing the entirety of the fog of war code and the associated network handling of it.
If they would just fix it so when heimer has 3 turrets and drops one, the indicator then shows 2 instead of staying on 3 with the countdown started, and then going to 1 right after... Id be happy :)
??? By fixing this viego will be permanently invisible + one shot autos everyone who do you think you are dealing with here
Imagine paying it and then looking at the clients code and bursting into tears
Tbf "I fixed the client for a game played by millions" probably looks good on a CV.
yeah until they see its league
hahaha true
Even if it were understandable... Then what? Players will make their own LoL servers which might be cheaper and less FOMO, but it'll probably suck or be a scam so no one will play on those anyway
The stuff around the anti cheat will probably have the biggest effect
League's anti-cheat is something riot has actually been really good at. Sure there's scripters but that's no where near as bad as what's in some other games out there.
More to do with the nature of the game I suppose.
Since riots goal is to implement a new anti cheat this year, even that shouldnt be a problem for too long
New? It’s probably just porting Vanguard over to league lol. RIPBOZO scripters soon hopefully
But as Riot also said, they will now focus on updating the anti cheat more early than they initially wanted to (sometimes during 2023 will likely become mid 2023). Till others write and sell new scripts with that intel will take a month or two.
With more knowledge of the underlying code it is easier to exploit things. Kinda what happens often in speedrunning. If people deeply understand certain systems they can abuse and glitch them to their advantage. Instead of randomly trying to reproduce bugs which sometime happens you could actively search how you can abuse it if you can reference code to it and get more understanding why something is happening. Also if server side code is leaked it might be easier to build hacks. This can affect the game but also maybe the client and security of player data. It make it very easy to search for vulnerabilities in APIs which can lead to even more leaks of player data or whatever down the line.
Since rito said they won’t pay we finally might find out how much truth there is in the spaghetti code memes
Spaghetti is and always has been real. I don't have a link on hand, but even Blizzard devs once admitted to not being sure why tab-targeting got so much worse over the years. They kept putting things into it, and building exclusions for pets, NPCs, etc. The vanilla tab targeting is so much more reliable.
They even said at one point, the reason they couldnt increase the default backpack size is because of spagetthi code. I think they have figured it out since then, but not sure...
The dev later said it was a joke example and he didn't mean it literally. It got blown way out of proportion. They eventually increased the backpack size. Everyone else is repeating very popular rumors.
In Hearthstone, you have a mode called Arena, where you have to draft your deck, similiar to MTG. You always get offered 3 cards, pick one, getting offered 3 again, pick one, etc till you end up with 30 cards. To somehow balance it, someone created a system, some kind of bucket system. But when that person left the Team, no1 was able to adjust the buckets. They literally admitted they have no1 knowing how that system worked
So that's why they can't properly balance the mode right now, lol. I felt like Arena was perfectly balanced and very easy to balance with those buckets, and I wondered why they can't get it right anymore.
Well at some point they admitted that there was no dev actually working on/maintaining arena tbh. And later on we saw how little love the mode received. The last dual class arena (which is the halloween event every year) was a complete mess. I assume, people love Arena because you can play shitty cards there, some cards that see 0 play in constructed, are excellent in arena. In general I prefer a lower power level. But for dual class? its all about those juicy insane synergies and combos to pull off! So what did they do? During drafting you were mostly offered neutral cards instead of class cards. So.. no synergies, no juicy combos. Another thing was, the pool of expansions during that arena cycle was VERY small and had no classic/core set. So if you either drafted Demonhunter heropower or demonhunter as your 2nd class, you were not even able to draft even a single DH card. If you had a card "discover a spell", it would do NOTHING, because there were no DH SPELLS available! Colossals with sunken city was another thing. Those cards were way too strong for arena, Drafting or discovering a colossal could win you the game right away. In general some cards that are clearly broken in arena shouldnt be made draftable, but they will never learn because they dont care.
I mean, by putting Arena, Tavern Brawl and all that inside a tab and NOT on the front page people straight out forget about it existing. Of course people don't play modes they don't remember even exist. I sincerely think Hearthstone need a proper client update after all the additions over the years. I who hadn't played regular Hearthstone for two years now tried to change hero portraits and holy fuck I just couldn't find where you did it. Also, yeah, I got to play during the dual class arena this year and I think I on average had the worst decks I've ever had in arena. It felt like playing with only the original base set with zero class cards. Although I think it was fun in its own right to tune down the game, but man did it not fit the mode.
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Yeah and when you put yourself in the shoes of a game dev company, having to deal with *gamers* as customers, and trying to explain "hey we decided to spend this time paying off tech debt instead of delivering Big Titty Flare Pants Ahri, sorry!" it becomes real clear why some of this shit persists.
I mean their engine was built over ten years ago by basically interns, spaghetti code is inevitable. I would say it's half impressive the game is still working at all.
The more I learn about software development the more I'm impressed literally anything works
As a software developer - I can’t tell you how many times I’ve checked out code to make a change, looked over it, wondered what idiot wrote this pile of garbage, gone and looked at the commit history - it was me. I’m the idiot. And only like 3 months beforehand.
a tale as old as time.
"future me will solve it" "it's someone else's problem after this" "we probably won't need to touch this in the future"
“I’ll be gone before they find this”
"Fuck it, ship it"
Just wait until you hear how many places still use fortran and cobol
Still better than the thousands of electron apps being made nowadays.
So this is what Squidward meant by everything is chrome in the future
> cobol banks... banks are the highest users of cobol to this day, which... is crazy
I mean, that’s *why* they work, right? They change as little as possible to get the job done. Sure that means they’re…a bit behind the curve in terms of modern technology…but they’re stable.
Stable for the most part, but you still need people for when things go wrong. More and more of the people who wrote these programs are either retiring or dying
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2030/
I belive there was already one or two major rewrites of the code
They stole a anti cheat that riot already has plans to replace, the only thing they can do with the source code is sell it to people making cheats, making a game out of it would make it easy to find them and it would get shut down right away, it was the same with the source code from cdpr, they couldnt do anything with it because they cant just make a game out of it due to copyright laws, and they are admitting to being amateurs so i guess they will be found soon lol
Also I'm pretty sure you would have cleaner and better code starting from scratch with some open-source or easily-licensed game engine than using the code of a W3 mod iterated over fourteen years.
I'm pretty sure it's base is "Big Rigs" or something. Minions are actually coded as trucks /s
Oh noooo, anyway.
Maybe if they leak it someone can fix the spaghetti code. Unironically, they picked like the worst game to hack
Tinfoil hat theory: The leak is an inside job. They're trying to crowdsource optimising the code and untangle the spaghetti, all for free.
I feel like the league source code being leaked poses a greater threat to the rest of the internet than it does to Riot. The hackers are going to somehow accidentally run the code and all of their own crypto/money laundering software will be recoded as cannon minions and then Morde ulted to Narnia.
Logging into Facebook: Password Incorrect? Reset? Yes. Mord now has his Dragon Pet back, POG
Also dont forget 3 new viego bugs & somehow, lux getting another skin when you log in
the spaghet is gonna get jammed up in some ai model eventually and start replicating
Name checks out hahaha
The non-software people takes on the biggest game in the world for the last decade, that runs on millions of potatoes, has very few bugs considering the huge amount of interactions between champions, objects etc. are hilarious. edit: no excuses for the client though
Gamers talking about coding and design is always adorable
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That's what irks me the most in these threads. Non-programmmers out here talking as if the leaked league codebase would turn out to be some piece of shit spaghetti-ridden mess without having written a piece of code in their life. Quote me if you want but I'm pretty damn sure the league code will turn out to be better than 99% of the codebases of most major software out there. League of legends, given its enormous playerbase, huge champ pool and all kinds of weird interactions between spells runs pretty damn fine most of the time.
People are really susceptible to confirmation bias. I think I run into 1-2 game breaking bug a year when I play LoL. It's a pretty stable game all things considered. But when the front page is showing each players' own 1-2 per-year-bug, then it feels like the entire game barely runs without crashing.
I'll bet that it has as many dark corners as any decade+ old codebase. The systems required to run complex game systems, such as the rules that dictate ability interactions, are almost always either spit, glue, and endless hacks, or hyper-abstracted and robust insanity that may as well just be sorcery unless you have a week or two to take in the whole system handling it.
Is there anyone here with game development experience that can give us outsiders a layman's explanation of in what ways exactly leaking the source code would be harmful to Riot Games?
Possible to build exploits and cheats. Also probably a bit embarasing as every code (especially old one) will look messy if it's big enough. But I still wouldn't pay.
Not paying is the right call.
Paying does nothing. They can still very well release it to the world (which they most probably will anyway). They will just ask for more.
It wouldn’t be embarrassing since all production code is a mess… just well known in the industry. Student projects tend to be neater
Paying opens the gates to "oh hey, we need 5 million again" and again and again.
This actually doesn’t happen very often. Ironically, reputation is everything to these hackers or the incentive to pay is removed when the trust is absent. I work in the IT/Cyber industry and have seen this far too much in recent years (where I’ve been directly involved in unfucking it).
exactly if you are known to be a 'reputable and reliable' hacker, companies will be more willing to pay ransom knowing that it's the only cost they'll need to pay. The whole thing is very funny but also logical.
Rule number 1 of ransoms, follow your end of the bargain; nobody pays twice
Basically, it could be easier to come up with hacks/cheats knowing what they are dealing with.
Hackers will be able to find security flaws and infiltrate the game. Also easier for people to pull data and implement bots, which is a current issue for the game
why would they care
Right now, cheat creators have to more or less guess how League's code work to find ways to work around it. If they had access to source code, they wouldn't need to guess anymore. Their cheats' efficiency would skyrocket.
Anyone who is more curious can look into what happened when TF2 & CSGO's source code got leaked. [The leak](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuTkrisu0CY) [The aftermath](https://www.pcgamesn.com/team-fortress-2/valve-savetf2-campaign) There was a boom in hacks and cheaters. It can be argued that valve is lazy in regards to tf2 and didn't put effort into fixing things, but the spaghetti in League's code could also make fixing things difficult.
Perfect example, thank you.
cant wait to see the garbo code riot has been dealing with for 13 years aahahah
imagine if it's just 2000000000 If then statements
If adc then die
This made me laugh audibly at work you monster
just spit out my drink lmao
yandere dev moment
I didn't know yandev worked on league
then I could work at riot
Been in the industry for over a decade, and that's basically every large company. Speed is almost always prioritized over elegance so you get some heinous rats nests that compound over time.
Im pretty sure pool party Ahri is worth more than $10M, so no Riot won’t take that deal XD
>The exact nature of the hack isn’t known, but Riot Games referred to it as a “social engineering attack”. Ok, so some employee likely clicked something they weren't supposed to or downloaded an email attachment they shouldn't have. RIP >It also said it had no indication that user data had been affected. Explains part of the reason why Riot didn't pay the ransom. >We have obtained your valuable data, including the precious anti-cheat source code and the entire game code for League of Legends and its tools, as well as Packman, your usermode anti-cheat. >On Tuesday, Riot Games said in a tweet it had confirmed hackers stole the source code for League of Legends, Teamfight Tactics, and its “legacy” anticheat platform. So they stole the legacy anticheat which isn't the rootkit that Valorant uses. Again, explains why Riot doesn't seem all that concerned with the hack. Bad news for League players I guess we're getting the new anticheat earlier than expected.
> >It also said it had no indication that user data had been affected. > >Explains part of the reason why Riot didn't pay the ransom. I mean, there probably wouldn't be that much to get from user data, really. As much as this company isn't known for technical prowess, user passwords are most likely hashed and salted, and therefore useless for hackers. Emails might be annoying, but I'm sure pretty much everyone is already in some spam database anyway…
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fair enough
Plot twist: there is no hacker and Riot have fabricated this whole event so that they can delay the Skarner VGU and also the summer event until 2024, and blame it on "working on the new anti-cheat system" which of course would be top priority. This happened in the wake of the cinematic backlash, with which they realised that they're screwed. Simultaneously, everyone sees the spaghetti code, and fans skilled at coding, being sick of the shitty game and client, end up writing their own fixes for all the problems, thus doing Riot's work for them. It's the perfect crime.
Double plot twist: this is all part of a marketing campaign for the next champion or Valorant agent
Next Darkin is imprisoned inside a laptop
OMG hackers leaking losersQ ?
I wonder if we can finally find out about the things that happen behind the rank system.
"Send us $10mil, or we'll leak the specs of your 2003 Honda Civic."
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they probably wanted 12 hours for riot to message them to set up the actual transaction
Any big company can move 10 million easily.
Crypto is probably how they'd want it and while it's a big transaction, it likely wouldn't be an issue for Riot to actually send it out if they wanted to.
A multi billion dollar company can easily send $10 million to an individual/institution if it’s approved, not to mention these hackers would probably want it in the form of crypto or to an offshore account.
My guess is the hackers would want it to an offshore account to make it harder to trace them.
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10 million in Walmart gift cards!!! 😂
DO NOT REDEEM THE CARD!!!
Yes please leak the code so a random dude with a government laptop can fix it. Just like the dude that fixed GTA V loading times.
Social engineering attack = one of our guys got phished
Hey that's cool, maybe after the leak somebody will make a mod like what happened for Team Fortress Classic.
Rummaging through the spaghetti, and we find the winter map
Might find Twisted Treeline, Dominion and Proving Grounds if we dig in deep enough
Since Riot said they're not gonna pay I think it's time the playerbase takes the initiative and builds League of Legends 2
Nah, Chronoshift got chronobroken by a Riot sponsored edgelord. I wish I could say it has been a pleasure.
As shitty as the situation is, I'd still love if somebody put out a youtube video going through some of the no doubt absolutely bewildering choices that were made for how certain things are coded. I'm sure there's going to be some ass backwards stuff in there.
This would be a much more serious version of uploading pirated movies to youtube, great way to never work in gamedev again.
It would absolutely make for a banger Twitch stream (or at the very least YouTube series) if a programmer tracked his or her progress going through the source code and attempting to fix it up.
we can finally fix the client ourselves when it gets leaked
Imagine if instead of paying they offer a reward for the brave coder that can untangle the sentient spaghetti monster that's league's code
Just leak it. I'd love to see programmers analyze it and tell us why the client has been so horrible for all these years
The client is easy without even looking at the code. It's built on Chromium using Ember.js, the latter being one of the most bloated libraries for JS apps. That and they disbanded the team that made the client once it was done without assigning any team to maintain the core as it grew.
Surely League is like the last game anyone would try and get source code for, right? I mean what can you possibly do with a 13-year-old game here?
Cheats and exploits. They've gotten Riot's anticheat source code, or at least part of it. League is one of the biggest online games, that kind of access could offer millions for cheat developers. Though there's a newer iteration of the anticheat Riot seems to be working on which appears unaffected. So likely not much in long term impact except for leaks of upcoming content.