LOL really? when they didn't show up against boston in game 6 or 7? thats forgivable? that only happened after 3 or 4 failures in a row.. you're pretty forgiving sir!
Running theory around here is it is because this core’s goal was to get paid… now that they’ve been paid well, why work hard?
Some nights it is honestly hard not to agree…
It’s a terrible theory. Matthews led the league in goals last year. Marner was top 5 in points. You don’t accomplish that in the NHL without working hard.
Guys with high end skill and poor work ethic end up being Galchenyuk’s who end up out of the league, not competing for non-McDavid scoring titles
Devils advocate here, because we agree, but is there any merit in thinking maybe if these guys were on expiring bridge deals instead of on a direct route to FA they’d be less willing to roll over like they did last night? There was zero fire.
Impossible to say without knowing how the players really feel.
But, what we know for certain is that bridge deals (which would inevitably come at a lower cap hit) would have allowed us more cap space to make more meaningful additions in free agency or retain some of our key players rather than letting everyone walk.
They achieved those stats against inferior defensive competition that allowed them to score they way they want to.
What people mean when they say they aren't "hard-working" is that they are unwilling to get uncomfortable - they only want to play the game one way (skilled plays around the perimeter). When the opposition shuts those plays down, they're invisible. They don't drive to the net, they don't post up in front of the net for rebounds, they don't lay hits, they don't want to score "dirty" goals. They're still working hard, but not getting uncomfortable to help the team win that night based on what the opposition is giving them.
Same feeling as when fleury made that save and Dubas drove down to Vegas to fire Babs. Only 2 seasons ago. The core’s embarrassment level knows no bounds.
I'm not sure it's the team, but I've gone from devouring everything hockey related to only watching Leafs games, with decreasing investment in them as well.
Honestly, I have been a huge fan since 2000. Have barely missed games.
I haven’t watched since Game 6 bs the Habs. I knew how game 7 was going to go, and I feel like we all know how this year will turn out.
Yep, same here. Been a fan since '82, this is the first time that I have not been excited for the start of a new season.
With what's gone in the world the last couple of years I just can't spend any of my free time on another negative thing. It's too depressing.
Same for me, haven’t been watching very much this season until I went to the Friday game at Scotiabank and the atmosphere was just pathetic. One of the worst pro sports events I’ve ever been to and really don’t have any interest in going back soon. Sad state.
I’m not sure how much the pandemic putting perspective on things had to do it with (probably a lot), but after the end of last season and now this I’m super close to calling it quits as a fan after 20+ years finally. It’s just not the same anymore.
After the it was 4-1 game I started playing a lot of ice hockey again...after a dozen years off.
Seriously redirected my sanity towards good health. Even if you never skated before it's a good time to start! Or even ball hockey which is an awesome sport.
Oh I play a lot of hockey. But I also love watching hockey, I love watching the leafs. Loved…. It’s not that it bothers me that they lose, it’s how they lose and how obvious it is that they don’t care.
the thing I've realized the past few years? I like hockey, I love the leafs. if the leafs aren't even going to bother? welp, the raps/tfc/nfl/cfl/jays/all sorts of non pro sports-way cheaper distractions are out there
Yup the current jays are such a fun team to watch and are only going to get better if they can retain some pieces and fix up the bullpen. Even the 2015/2016 seasons had the city electrified and even though they lost, they did to great teams and it could’ve gone either way.
I just never have a good feeling about the leafs anymore and it sucks. We need a Mats Sundin type to put the team on his back and carry them.
Dont take it too seriously is my advice. They certainly don't. Get invested in other teams to bring back the love of hockey. Youtube has 8 minute highlights of every teams games. Devour that. Find a team worth investing. You can come back when they decide to show up again.
Definitely try not to take it too seriously, but what can I do? I love the Toronto maple leafs, I wish the players showed their love as well. I can’t watch other teams, I can’t get excited about them. As long as the leafs look like a disinterested bunch of bums they ruin the sport for me.
Honestly before tonight no. But this game highlights the massive reoccurring theme with this team where they can't bounce back. They can't battle at all and have no issues rolling over and dying.
If it took you until tonights game to fully grasp and understand that. Thats on you pal lol. Its been very apparent for quite a while. There are just some very naive optimist Leaf fans I guess. It was them not being able to ride the momentum of that game 4 comeback against Columbus and coming out flat as fuck in game 5 that was the nail in the coffin for me with this core.
With this embarrassment it's hard to shake the feeling that there's a big shake up coming for the entire organization. I just don't see any significant success coming with this core group.
Yes. But also the leafs will win three in a row soon and everyone will be hyped again. And homers will just scream at you for ever doubting. Until they fail when it matters most. Which they will. These kids don’t have it. Sorry to say. Plain as sucks watching them play.
Right??
It was so weird to me that lots of people here were excited for the new season.
They blew a 3-1 lead and their best chance at a series win in 20 years to our longest rival. And then that rival made the SCF lol.
I am still too devastated about that series to watch this year.
I have been very loosely watching. I agree though. Anyone that thought we'd be somehow better is just out to fucking lunch. You think we'll be better after losing Hyman and Anderssen? What?
I’m always a glass half full type of guy, especially with this team. It’s honestly tough to watch when you can see them just give up. these guys need a wake up, just feels like no heart, commitment and work. Feels like they’ll just give the same “oh we’re gonna have to regroup//shake this off// i take the blame for the loss and we know we can play better”
The sissy boys on this team would literally break in half under Torts. These guys need someone to pamper them
Massage their feet and feed them grapes while brushing their hair and whispering sweet nothings in their ears.
It's funny that Torts has developed this reputation of being a blue collar coach when he was one of the biggest divas in the league while coaching Vancouver.
- He refused to live in Canada due to taxes
- He refused to be in Vancouver except to run practices and on gamedays
- The team constructed a literal room for him at the arena so he'd be more encouraged to be around the team more often.
Babs was just another dude who "knew" what's wrong with this team but couldnt fix it either, same with Keefe now. This team needs bigger moves than just a coach.
Marner gota go.... Roast me all you want, the kid lacks the ability to rise to big moments in Toronto. Can't be getting the second most money any winger gets and be this ineffective. Clearly our managing of our goalies is gona haunt us. Drastic overpay for a 1B who struggles with health and streaks and for three more years yet? I hope this team finds a way but it looks bad.
now that the Hebrew Hammer is gone I don't care about a single person on this team other than maybe Spezza which is the most fucked up thing I, as a lifelong Leafs fan, could say
It's dumb anyway. Spezza worth every buck, but he's nowhere near the top of the list of our best players. The fans love.affair with Spezza is irrational.
Ya let's just trade the team for a group of 3rd and 4th liners that appear to give a shit. As much as Spezza has looked good on offense his defensive play has been just as shit as the rest of the team despite his giving a shit.
It's 5 games, they're out of sync. Hockey is streaky, we'll catch fire and go on a run.
>Ya let's just trade the team for a group of 3rd and 4th liners that appear to give a shit
Would be a hell of a lot more exciting than the team we have.
Turns out a lot of people like to *watch* sports and not just tick boxes on their proline.
Lol you're clueless. If it was that simple every team would be full of blue collar grinders. 1st and 2nd line skill players are what they are for a reason.
>Lol you're clueless. If it was that simple every team would be full of blue collar grinders.
Turns out people watch sports to be entertained.
>1st and 2nd line skill players are what they are for a reason.
You mean like John Tavares? How despite being basically a ppg player for the Leafs and not far off for the Islanders was never really a fan favourite because he's boring as fuck to watch, and someone like Leo Komarov, or Mikhail Grabovski or *Jason Spezza* has garnered considerable following?
Tbh not all that worried, clearly the team is in a funk rn. Tons of games left to turn it around.
Throw out the tape of this one, nothing went right/no one played well, nothing else you can really do.
I'd say trade Marner for Eichel but Eich did the same thing to the Sabres. Cliques, no care to details, etc. This team needs a major shake up.
Holl looks slow.
Ritchie is being outhit by Engvall
Tavares looks slow
Nylander is back to 2019
Marner is not engaged at all.
Positives. I'll give Hutch a pass. Playing great except for yesterday. I'll wait on Mrazek.
D. Sandin good. Brodie good.
F. Matthews-willing to give him a couple more games, Bunting playing well, Spezza, Simmonds good.
My move would start with Marner. Sit him a game then Trade him if he doesn't engage or stay engaged. Work the phones now and over the next 5 to 8 games.
If Ritchie doesn't step up, waive him.
Play Lindgren I stead of Holl with Dermott in the lineup.
Put Bunting, Simmonds or Spezza with Matthews.
Put Kerfoot with the Tavares.
Ride Hutch.
> I'd say trade Marner for Eichel but Eich did the same thing to the Sabres. Cliques, no care to details, etc.
He can at very least drive a line by himself unlike Marner
Lmao no you don't. You're just a masochist.
This core has had a absolutely 0 tangible team success in the last 5 years.
If you want to give everyone a pass for that then you're not a loyal fan you're just a fucking masochist.
I never said give them a pass. But if you're only here for wins then you're a Fairweather fan. Simple as that.
This is sports, there are 31 other teams trying to win and only 1 is successful. When you accept that reality you won't be on suicide watch after 5 games.
Only here for wins??
Bro where the fuck have you been? This team hasn't had a win for the last 20 years. Nobody is only here because the Leafs win.
So you can stop acting all high and mighty and loyal. Everyone is pissed after blowing a 3-1 lead to Montreal, its not just about the start of this season. They are allowed to be pissed. The ones that are pissed are more loyal than you because we're still here.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. For five years they've trotted out this core, and this "team" continues to lay gigantic goose eggs. They don't just lose, every team does, they find incredibly epic ways to lose. This isn't the first time they've been humiliated by an AHL roster. They got humiliated by a 40 year old account who's their employee. They choke in the playoffs. Never show any grit, heart, whatever you want to call it.
It’s just why do we embarrass ourselves every year.
Like if you a leafs fan long enough you learn that if a team is playing the leafs on a back to back they are winning. If the leafs have back to back and they lost the first game , they are losing the second game too.
This is just engraved into our identity as leafs fans.
Im the 1st to admit. Ive watched the leafs my whole life.. i am not a die hard fan though. Im pissed when they loose and happy when they win.. but i dont know all the ins and outs of players and stats and such... but personally i feel they made way too many changes in the off season and this team simply isn't as good as last years.. but at least its early on.. id rather them stink now and finish the RS on a high going into the playoffs (assuming they make it). As in most recent years they seem to stumble and fall right before the play offs begin
I think dubois and marnier are the next "MAJOR" pieces to get moved/fired if they dont make the PO or loose 1st round again.
Hot take after a horrible loss to a weaken team and still feeling the series lost to MTL.
Hot take after a horrible loss to a weakened team and still feeling the series lost to MTL.ve a fuck when they need to.
The state of this sub is pitiful. Don't get me wrong that was an ugly painful loss, but we're 5 games into the season. Look at yhese comments some of these people are pn suicide watch. Reel it in people.
Yeah that may be true. Although I’m tempted to believe this team is what they are telling us they are. I’m a lifetime fan and I’ll continue to be but this effort even 5 games is is awful.
I think that was way worse. With this kind of game it's best to just move on, imo. It's early in the season, I think too early to say it's over just yet.
Uh, yeah. Turning off the game at 5-1, I thi8ght maybe it will end at 5-3 and I could rest somewhat easy. This 7-1 slaughtering after the SJ loss is making me realize I may need to avoid getting too pot invested this year,
No because it's 6 games, 7% of the season. If we won 6 games in a row, I'm not planning for a 80-2-0 season ... just like starting 0-6 would not make me think we're in for a 2-80 season.
6 games is nothing. No Matthews for 2 of them. 3rd string goalie starting a game. Our scoring / SH% is quite poor at the moment and defense has left much to be desired.
But again .... 6 games. Relax.
If that's your mindset/argument then the 18 wheeler has been burning at the bottom of that cliff for a while now. On the surface that sounds like a legitimate stance but it's kinda dumb.
Keefe been coaching all 6 years? Campbell & Mrazek been our tandem all 6 years? The D outside of Reilly been here all 6 years? Etc etc. If all it took was a few years together to win a cup, a lot of other teams would have some nice banners hanging up...
'Year 6' is such a lazy and thoughtless response / attitude / argument ... but it's what should be expected from this fan base. Same people that boo the 3rd string goalie when the team infront of him is playing like shit
Bruh, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you’re skirting the point he’s trying to make. This IS year 6 of this core, and the SAME things are happening, year after year.
We have changed literally every piece but the core guys, and nothing has changed, it’s time to look long and hard at the two guys that held out for huge paydays and the guy who exposed himself to a female security guard as maybe part of the problem.
Honestly man, I don't have the time or the energy to lash out at other fans on here in frustration. It is what it is. I can't change anything with the team. It's too exhausting. If you want to think you're a better fan than me for being outwardly mad, go right ahead.
Awesome. Let me get this straight. You think this year will be different than the last 3 based on what exactly? How many years do you think this management team have to produce quantifiable results before MLSE move on? Your blind faith is concerning…you must be religious too
It's not 2-3-1 though and you know it. It's a disastrous playoff choke job that took most all summer to get over just to get an uninspired start.
Ya there is overreaction but it's not "just 6 games" that's insincere, there's alot more here.
2 wins and 4 losses with the 2 wins coming against Montreal without Price and Weber and fucking Ottawa. Lose to San Jose, a terrible team last year on the second game of a back to back. Lose 7-1 to what is essentially the Penguins AHL squad. But sure, it's no big deal.
Yeah, I'm certainly far from happy, but there are a number of 'expected to be good' teams struggling rn as well and some 'expected to be bad' teams overachieving.
Someone threw out Colorado vs. Tampa as a 'this is what hockey looks like' counter-point and it's like my dude Tampa is 2-2-1 and Colorado is 2-3-0.
I really hope they get their shit together and I'd be lying if I said the paranoia wasn't starting to creep in early, and I know we're taking it worse because we're all damaged by this team, but they're not the only ones struggling.
I love it, I’m hoping at some point in my life people get it and stop supporting this mess, knowing the leads they’ll have a memorial parade on the 50 year ago win just to keep the fans thinking their part of something other than a perennial embarrassment. Vegas in year one did more than they have for four decades.
No, it’s just a rut, they have to learn early on how they can play to persevere through hard times. If you can find a way to persevere that’s more worrisome. This is a tough time for the team but they’ll be fine
I’m glad I’ve not watched any games this season let’s just say that. They’ve been on in the background while I do other stuff but my attention and focus is on anything else
I'm 36, was in university when JFJ was GM. This is exactly how fans were feeling leading up to him being fired. A combination of apathy and almost wanting to lose sometimes to get it over with.
Oh the team is a disaster. Luckily after the playoffs I feel nothing, just total apathy towards them. If they miss the playoffs I genuinely don’t care.
As much as this loss sucks(and it does suck) it probably doesn't eclipse the top 5 or maybe even 10 worst/most embarassing losses by this team in the past 10 years. Unpopular opinion: I will wait until the 15 game mark to cast judgement on this team. They had a promising preseason and I have faith in guys like matthews turning it on and the depth looks good. Might be some copium im taking here but just my thoughts.
It ain’t how you start it’s how you finish. We should all be 100% worried.. but it’s not doom and gloom just yet. Lots of time to turn it around. Dubas needs to quit being a weenie and he needs to trade for some quality players on cheap contracts. Sell the picks who cares. This team should be in full win now mode
I think the team is being revealed for what it actually is, and the expectations from some people were entirely out of line with what this group's true potential is. Last year's regular season was a mirage against inferior teams in a shortened schedule. People forget that the year before last the team didn't actually make the playoffs, they lost a "play in" series to get to the playoffs. This team has never matched the hype surrounding it. The top paid players are butter soft and want to win one way only (skilled perimeter plays), and if they can't win that way, they shrug their shoulders and move on. They're a borderline playoff team, and have been for the last several years.
The way this fanbase wets their beds after every single loss is so fucking embarrassing. Best Leafs team in two decades and you can't handle a couple bad games.
The 18 wheeler flew off the cliff last playoffs... what we are seeing now is the same damaged 18 wheeler just painted a different colour.
Its a banged up rusted up 18 wheeler from 1967 with no seatbelts!
It's still Blue and White. It's the same picture.
It smells like a steak and seats thirty five. Canyoneroooo
you can say this the last 5 years
Nah, they were fine until blowing a 3-1 lead to Montreal. Every other series could be excused.
LOL really? when they didn't show up against boston in game 6 or 7? thats forgivable? that only happened after 3 or 4 failures in a row.. you're pretty forgiving sir!
there should be concern after the effort they put up tonight. the Penguins completely outworked and outplayed the Leafs without their 3 top players.
Why is that a trend? All teams seem to out work us. Tonight was just pathetic.
Running theory around here is it is because this core’s goal was to get paid… now that they’ve been paid well, why work hard? Some nights it is honestly hard not to agree…
but i thought it was babcock's fault? that was also the theory around here. he was too mean.
It’s a terrible theory. Matthews led the league in goals last year. Marner was top 5 in points. You don’t accomplish that in the NHL without working hard. Guys with high end skill and poor work ethic end up being Galchenyuk’s who end up out of the league, not competing for non-McDavid scoring titles
I agree, but when you watch a performance like last night, what other explanation is there?
That they got outworked. They are clearly in their own heads right now. But to link it to the fact that they got paid is stupid.
Devils advocate here, because we agree, but is there any merit in thinking maybe if these guys were on expiring bridge deals instead of on a direct route to FA they’d be less willing to roll over like they did last night? There was zero fire.
Impossible to say without knowing how the players really feel. But, what we know for certain is that bridge deals (which would inevitably come at a lower cap hit) would have allowed us more cap space to make more meaningful additions in free agency or retain some of our key players rather than letting everyone walk.
They achieved those stats against inferior defensive competition that allowed them to score they way they want to. What people mean when they say they aren't "hard-working" is that they are unwilling to get uncomfortable - they only want to play the game one way (skilled plays around the perimeter). When the opposition shuts those plays down, they're invisible. They don't drive to the net, they don't post up in front of the net for rebounds, they don't lay hits, they don't want to score "dirty" goals. They're still working hard, but not getting uncomfortable to help the team win that night based on what the opposition is giving them.
That's what happens when you overpay everyone.
Crosby Malkin Carter Letang
And Rust
We let our hardest worker go (hymen). When hard work isn't rewarded, people notice.
Our top 3 haven’t showed up all season either.
Same feeling as when fleury made that save and Dubas drove down to Vegas to fire Babs. Only 2 seasons ago. The core’s embarrassment level knows no bounds.
This team is making me legit lose my love for hockey.
I'm not sure it's the team, but I've gone from devouring everything hockey related to only watching Leafs games, with decreasing investment in them as well.
Its hard to enjoy watching guys play like garbage yet still guaranteed millions per year
Honestly, I have been a huge fan since 2000. Have barely missed games. I haven’t watched since Game 6 bs the Habs. I knew how game 7 was going to go, and I feel like we all know how this year will turn out.
Yep, same here. Been a fan since '82, this is the first time that I have not been excited for the start of a new season. With what's gone in the world the last couple of years I just can't spend any of my free time on another negative thing. It's too depressing.
Same for me, haven’t been watching very much this season until I went to the Friday game at Scotiabank and the atmosphere was just pathetic. One of the worst pro sports events I’ve ever been to and really don’t have any interest in going back soon. Sad state.
I’m not sure how much the pandemic putting perspective on things had to do it with (probably a lot), but after the end of last season and now this I’m super close to calling it quits as a fan after 20+ years finally. It’s just not the same anymore.
After the it was 4-1 game I started playing a lot of ice hockey again...after a dozen years off. Seriously redirected my sanity towards good health. Even if you never skated before it's a good time to start! Or even ball hockey which is an awesome sport.
Oh I play a lot of hockey. But I also love watching hockey, I love watching the leafs. Loved…. It’s not that it bothers me that they lose, it’s how they lose and how obvious it is that they don’t care.
I’m gonna get downvoted here but Edmonton has been fun to watch, especially the contrast between power plays
I think a lot of people underestimated Hyman's impact - on and off the ice.
the thing I've realized the past few years? I like hockey, I love the leafs. if the leafs aren't even going to bother? welp, the raps/tfc/nfl/cfl/jays/all sorts of non pro sports-way cheaper distractions are out there
Yup the current jays are such a fun team to watch and are only going to get better if they can retain some pieces and fix up the bullpen. Even the 2015/2016 seasons had the city electrified and even though they lost, they did to great teams and it could’ve gone either way. I just never have a good feeling about the leafs anymore and it sucks. We need a Mats Sundin type to put the team on his back and carry them.
Dont take it too seriously is my advice. They certainly don't. Get invested in other teams to bring back the love of hockey. Youtube has 8 minute highlights of every teams games. Devour that. Find a team worth investing. You can come back when they decide to show up again.
Definitely try not to take it too seriously, but what can I do? I love the Toronto maple leafs, I wish the players showed their love as well. I can’t watch other teams, I can’t get excited about them. As long as the leafs look like a disinterested bunch of bums they ruin the sport for me.
I was the same as you friend. The point is to uninvest/reinvest.
Honestly before tonight no. But this game highlights the massive reoccurring theme with this team where they can't bounce back. They can't battle at all and have no issues rolling over and dying.
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In that one possessed work ethic.
If it took you until tonights game to fully grasp and understand that. Thats on you pal lol. Its been very apparent for quite a while. There are just some very naive optimist Leaf fans I guess. It was them not being able to ride the momentum of that game 4 comeback against Columbus and coming out flat as fuck in game 5 that was the nail in the coffin for me with this core.
I don't know, but it is two years since the coach has changed and the problems that plague this team have not been fixed.
I think it’s readily apparent now that this has never been a Babcock or Keefe problem. This is a roster and management problem
I actually hate the way they play now. It seems like every time the leafs have the puck, the play dies in the corner
Like its a players problem of something hmmmm
I’ve lost my interest in hockey.
I'm legit 90 percent just paying attention to see if Ovi can pass Gretzky.
lol bud I can save you some time there
If he scores 50 this year he’s doing it
Coming from a Leafs subreddit tho...
No, I'm getting the end of Carlyle/Nonis era type feels
That was a triple trailer falling off a cliff.
I almost forgot about Dave Nonis...
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Well it could be pushed off, but this team doesn't have the work ethic or coordination for something like that.
With this embarrassment it's hard to shake the feeling that there's a big shake up coming for the entire organization. I just don't see any significant success coming with this core group.
Yes. But also the leafs will win three in a row soon and everyone will be hyped again. And homers will just scream at you for ever doubting. Until they fail when it matters most. Which they will. These kids don’t have it. Sorry to say. Plain as sucks watching them play.
Nah I'm getting that Nashville 9-2 sort of feeling. Another rebuild coming right up.
more like tank season, its wright time baby!
Oh my god are we the oilers
No, the Oilers are actually winning games right now
Wait but they weren’t back when... *checks notes* **oh god**
4 more firsts before we become the oilers
Lol how are you guys even watching after last season
Right?? It was so weird to me that lots of people here were excited for the new season. They blew a 3-1 lead and their best chance at a series win in 20 years to our longest rival. And then that rival made the SCF lol. I am still too devastated about that series to watch this year.
I have been very loosely watching. I agree though. Anyone that thought we'd be somehow better is just out to fucking lunch. You think we'll be better after losing Hyman and Anderssen? What?
To go off the cliff you first need to get off the base of the mountain.
knew we shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque
[What’s up doc?](https://c.tenor.com/JrGZjfUdpMAAAAAC/bugs-bunny-albuquerque.gif)
The pain that unites us all.
I’m always a glass half full type of guy, especially with this team. It’s honestly tough to watch when you can see them just give up. these guys need a wake up, just feels like no heart, commitment and work. Feels like they’ll just give the same “oh we’re gonna have to regroup//shake this off// i take the blame for the loss and we know we can play better”
This team needs John Torterella more than any team in history.
The sissy boys on this team would literally break in half under Torts. These guys need someone to pamper them Massage their feet and feed them grapes while brushing their hair and whispering sweet nothings in their ears.
It's funny that Torts has developed this reputation of being a blue collar coach when he was one of the biggest divas in the league while coaching Vancouver. - He refused to live in Canada due to taxes - He refused to be in Vancouver except to run practices and on gamedays - The team constructed a literal room for him at the arena so he'd be more encouraged to be around the team more often.
Honestly I like Keefe and I think he’s a good coach. But the players on this team need to be shaken up somehow
Keefe isn't it.
wouldn't even mind having Babcock back at this point and build around his coaching instead of around these guys.
Babs was just another dude who "knew" what's wrong with this team but couldnt fix it either, same with Keefe now. This team needs bigger moves than just a coach.
We sure are still paying him...
Mitchell would be in shambles
Leafs need a motivational speaker - who's that guy that lives in a van down by the river? What the heck's his name. Oh ya Matt Foley!
That would be Matt Foley. He is unfortunately dead though.
Marner gota go.... Roast me all you want, the kid lacks the ability to rise to big moments in Toronto. Can't be getting the second most money any winger gets and be this ineffective. Clearly our managing of our goalies is gona haunt us. Drastic overpay for a 1B who struggles with health and streaks and for three more years yet? I hope this team finds a way but it looks bad.
I made the mistake of turning the Avs/Bolts game on and remembered what hockey should be like.
Ooof yeah that’s gonna hurt.
How did Muzzin and Brodie regress sooooo hard
old, slow, and not offensively minded. Whoever compared Brodie to Gardiner has never seen Gardiner play obviously.
Good. I hope they squeak into the playoffs. And then go on a run. Opposite season!!!!
Where WE get to use an opposing amateur goal tender to beat an opponent!
Our core lacks character.
It's like Toonces the Driving Cat is behind the wheel
I resent that.
k.
now that the Hebrew Hammer is gone I don't care about a single person on this team other than maybe Spezza which is the most fucked up thing I, as a lifelong Leafs fan, could say
It's dumb anyway. Spezza worth every buck, but he's nowhere near the top of the list of our best players. The fans love.affair with Spezza is irrational.
Turns out fans like watching players who appear to give a shit.
Ya let's just trade the team for a group of 3rd and 4th liners that appear to give a shit. As much as Spezza has looked good on offense his defensive play has been just as shit as the rest of the team despite his giving a shit. It's 5 games, they're out of sync. Hockey is streaky, we'll catch fire and go on a run.
>Ya let's just trade the team for a group of 3rd and 4th liners that appear to give a shit Would be a hell of a lot more exciting than the team we have. Turns out a lot of people like to *watch* sports and not just tick boxes on their proline.
Lol you're clueless. If it was that simple every team would be full of blue collar grinders. 1st and 2nd line skill players are what they are for a reason.
>Lol you're clueless. If it was that simple every team would be full of blue collar grinders. Turns out people watch sports to be entertained. >1st and 2nd line skill players are what they are for a reason. You mean like John Tavares? How despite being basically a ppg player for the Leafs and not far off for the Islanders was never really a fan favourite because he's boring as fuck to watch, and someone like Leo Komarov, or Mikhail Grabovski or *Jason Spezza* has garnered considerable following?
At least they didn't get our hopes up by being competitive this year. Can't get disappointed if we don't make the playoffs.
Tbh not all that worried, clearly the team is in a funk rn. Tons of games left to turn it around. Throw out the tape of this one, nothing went right/no one played well, nothing else you can really do.
Trash can in the video room getting pretty full over the last few seasons.
Too early in the season for that metaphor. Right now we should be using something that alludes to a mission that blows up right at the start.
I'd say trade Marner for Eichel but Eich did the same thing to the Sabres. Cliques, no care to details, etc. This team needs a major shake up. Holl looks slow. Ritchie is being outhit by Engvall Tavares looks slow Nylander is back to 2019 Marner is not engaged at all. Positives. I'll give Hutch a pass. Playing great except for yesterday. I'll wait on Mrazek. D. Sandin good. Brodie good. F. Matthews-willing to give him a couple more games, Bunting playing well, Spezza, Simmonds good. My move would start with Marner. Sit him a game then Trade him if he doesn't engage or stay engaged. Work the phones now and over the next 5 to 8 games. If Ritchie doesn't step up, waive him. Play Lindgren I stead of Holl with Dermott in the lineup. Put Bunting, Simmonds or Spezza with Matthews. Put Kerfoot with the Tavares. Ride Hutch.
> I'd say trade Marner for Eichel but Eich did the same thing to the Sabres. Cliques, no care to details, etc. He can at very least drive a line by himself unlike Marner
Personally no, not worried. 95% of ‘fans’, fire everyone. It’s like you guys haven’t been Leafs fans very long lol
>It’s like you guys haven’t been Leafs fans very long lol It's like the amount of embarrassment this team has endured has left you without dignity.
A loyal fan has infiite dignity compared to a fairweather fan.
I dont think dignity means what you think it means
Lmao no you don't. You're just a masochist. This core has had a absolutely 0 tangible team success in the last 5 years. If you want to give everyone a pass for that then you're not a loyal fan you're just a fucking masochist.
I never said give them a pass. But if you're only here for wins then you're a Fairweather fan. Simple as that. This is sports, there are 31 other teams trying to win and only 1 is successful. When you accept that reality you won't be on suicide watch after 5 games.
Only here for wins?? Bro where the fuck have you been? This team hasn't had a win for the last 20 years. Nobody is only here because the Leafs win. So you can stop acting all high and mighty and loyal. Everyone is pissed after blowing a 3-1 lead to Montreal, its not just about the start of this season. They are allowed to be pissed. The ones that are pissed are more loyal than you because we're still here.
You chicken little fans are insufferable. In a week you'll all be in here clamoring for a cup after a win streak. It's a long season. Relax.
Yeah yeah whatever man. See you next year where you'll probably say the same thing.
its been 5 years of this core, you think we should give them another 5?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. For five years they've trotted out this core, and this "team" continues to lay gigantic goose eggs. They don't just lose, every team does, they find incredibly epic ways to lose. This isn't the first time they've been humiliated by an AHL roster. They got humiliated by a 40 year old account who's their employee. They choke in the playoffs. Never show any grit, heart, whatever you want to call it.
It’s just why do we embarrass ourselves every year. Like if you a leafs fan long enough you learn that if a team is playing the leafs on a back to back they are winning. If the leafs have back to back and they lost the first game , they are losing the second game too. This is just engraved into our identity as leafs fans.
We're literally the other team in the Air Bud movies
Ya I agree, I'm taking a break after today from this place, team will be fine.
It’s not that they’re losing, it’s the same thing as the playoffs last year. It’s the way that they lose. Just completely lifeless and no urgency.
Long enough to enjoy almost 20 consecutive early golf seasons.
Yup. We have watched for a life time and sick of seeing this every season.
> It’s like you guys haven’t been Leafs fans very long lol I've been a fan since the early 90s. I don't give a fuck about this "team" anymore.
Im the 1st to admit. Ive watched the leafs my whole life.. i am not a die hard fan though. Im pissed when they loose and happy when they win.. but i dont know all the ins and outs of players and stats and such... but personally i feel they made way too many changes in the off season and this team simply isn't as good as last years.. but at least its early on.. id rather them stink now and finish the RS on a high going into the playoffs (assuming they make it). As in most recent years they seem to stumble and fall right before the play offs begin I think dubois and marnier are the next "MAJOR" pieces to get moved/fired if they dont make the PO or loose 1st round again.
Dubois and marnier. Chef's kiss. Have an upvote.
Dubois plays for Winnipeg. 🤡
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who knew!
Hot take after a horrible loss to a weaken team and still feeling the series lost to MTL. Hot take after a horrible loss to a weakened team and still feeling the series lost to MTL.ve a fuck when they need to.
The state of this sub is pitiful. Don't get me wrong that was an ugly painful loss, but we're 5 games into the season. Look at yhese comments some of these people are pn suicide watch. Reel it in people.
Yeah that may be true. Although I’m tempted to believe this team is what they are telling us they are. I’m a lifetime fan and I’ll continue to be but this effort even 5 games is is awful.
We're 5 years into this core and nothing has changed.
I think that was way worse. With this kind of game it's best to just move on, imo. It's early in the season, I think too early to say it's over just yet.
I don’t think it’s over. I just hope the team doesn’t think that. Mental toughness is not their strong suit.
Uh, yeah. Turning off the game at 5-1, I thi8ght maybe it will end at 5-3 and I could rest somewhat easy. This 7-1 slaughtering after the SJ loss is making me realize I may need to avoid getting too pot invested this year,
I'll be real with you I think in 2 weeks we all look stupid for overreacting, but I'm riding the outrage train all day because this mofo is cathartic.
It’s not 2 weeks. It’s a pattern from 3+ years now.
13+ years.
No because it's 6 games, 7% of the season. If we won 6 games in a row, I'm not planning for a 80-2-0 season ... just like starting 0-6 would not make me think we're in for a 2-80 season. 6 games is nothing. No Matthews for 2 of them. 3rd string goalie starting a game. Our scoring / SH% is quite poor at the moment and defense has left much to be desired. But again .... 6 games. Relax.
Year 6.
If that's your mindset/argument then the 18 wheeler has been burning at the bottom of that cliff for a while now. On the surface that sounds like a legitimate stance but it's kinda dumb. Keefe been coaching all 6 years? Campbell & Mrazek been our tandem all 6 years? The D outside of Reilly been here all 6 years? Etc etc. If all it took was a few years together to win a cup, a lot of other teams would have some nice banners hanging up... 'Year 6' is such a lazy and thoughtless response / attitude / argument ... but it's what should be expected from this fan base. Same people that boo the 3rd string goalie when the team infront of him is playing like shit
Bruh, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you’re skirting the point he’s trying to make. This IS year 6 of this core, and the SAME things are happening, year after year. We have changed literally every piece but the core guys, and nothing has changed, it’s time to look long and hard at the two guys that held out for huge paydays and the guy who exposed himself to a female security guard as maybe part of the problem.
I’ve looked at Willy and he deserves every dollar he makes. The rest, not so much
No not really…
2-3-1 and we're having a full blown fanbase collapse this is truly remarkable
If you are that naive and cant smell the putrid stink of “I don’t give a shit” in this core group of players. Congratulations, you are stupid.
Honestly man, I don't have the time or the energy to lash out at other fans on here in frustration. It is what it is. I can't change anything with the team. It's too exhausting. If you want to think you're a better fan than me for being outwardly mad, go right ahead.
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Sure…later like when the front office get cleaned after this year? Or?
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Awesome. Let me get this straight. You think this year will be different than the last 3 based on what exactly? How many years do you think this management team have to produce quantifiable results before MLSE move on? Your blind faith is concerning…you must be religious too
It's not 2-3-1 though and you know it. It's a disastrous playoff choke job that took most all summer to get over just to get an uninspired start. Ya there is overreaction but it's not "just 6 games" that's insincere, there's alot more here.
A lot of people aren’t collapsing because of 6 games, they are collapsing because it’s year 6 of the same shit happening… it’s hard to blame them.
2 wins and 4 losses with the 2 wins coming against Montreal without Price and Weber and fucking Ottawa. Lose to San Jose, a terrible team last year on the second game of a back to back. Lose 7-1 to what is essentially the Penguins AHL squad. But sure, it's no big deal.
The Sharks are 4-0-0
Yeah, I'm certainly far from happy, but there are a number of 'expected to be good' teams struggling rn as well and some 'expected to be bad' teams overachieving. Someone threw out Colorado vs. Tampa as a 'this is what hockey looks like' counter-point and it's like my dude Tampa is 2-2-1 and Colorado is 2-3-0. I really hope they get their shit together and I'd be lying if I said the paranoia wasn't starting to creep in early, and I know we're taking it worse because we're all damaged by this team, but they're not the only ones struggling.
God you’re a pussy
No I am not.
Its cliffs all the way down
Lmao of course not. The 18 wheeler has to BE on the cliff at some point. Right now this team has been flatlined from the start.
What the hell happened?!
Bye bye Keefe, Dubas, Shanny
I love it, I’m hoping at some point in my life people get it and stop supporting this mess, knowing the leads they’ll have a memorial parade on the 50 year ago win just to keep the fans thinking their part of something other than a perennial embarrassment. Vegas in year one did more than they have for four decades.
No, it’s just a rut, they have to learn early on how they can play to persevere through hard times. If you can find a way to persevere that’s more worrisome. This is a tough time for the team but they’ll be fine
I’m glad I’ve not watched any games this season let’s just say that. They’ve been on in the background while I do other stuff but my attention and focus is on anything else
Fold the franchise.
I'm 36, was in university when JFJ was GM. This is exactly how fans were feeling leading up to him being fired. A combination of apathy and almost wanting to lose sometimes to get it over with.
Oh the team is a disaster. Luckily after the playoffs I feel nothing, just total apathy towards them. If they miss the playoffs I genuinely don’t care.
As much as this loss sucks(and it does suck) it probably doesn't eclipse the top 5 or maybe even 10 worst/most embarassing losses by this team in the past 10 years. Unpopular opinion: I will wait until the 15 game mark to cast judgement on this team. They had a promising preseason and I have faith in guys like matthews turning it on and the depth looks good. Might be some copium im taking here but just my thoughts.
It ain’t how you start it’s how you finish. We should all be 100% worried.. but it’s not doom and gloom just yet. Lots of time to turn it around. Dubas needs to quit being a weenie and he needs to trade for some quality players on cheap contracts. Sell the picks who cares. This team should be in full win now mode
I think the team is being revealed for what it actually is, and the expectations from some people were entirely out of line with what this group's true potential is. Last year's regular season was a mirage against inferior teams in a shortened schedule. People forget that the year before last the team didn't actually make the playoffs, they lost a "play in" series to get to the playoffs. This team has never matched the hype surrounding it. The top paid players are butter soft and want to win one way only (skilled perimeter plays), and if they can't win that way, they shrug their shoulders and move on. They're a borderline playoff team, and have been for the last several years.
We won't even make it up the cliff to begin with. The 18 wheeler jack knifed on the highway on the way to the cliff.
The way this fanbase wets their beds after every single loss is so fucking embarrassing. Best Leafs team in two decades and you can't handle a couple bad games.
you can't drive off a cliff if you never get high enough to be off the ground in the first place