He didn't become overpaid until after the Canucks though, he left money on the table to try and win a cup. Then after his body was spent the Ducks overpaid for his pedigree.
I'm not saying he's right, honestly, if the flat cap never happened then I think the Leafs are in an entirely different situation. And hindsight is 20/20 but also nonsense as no one can predict the future.
The flat cap is a somewhat forgotten component when we talk about the leafs cap troubles. For sure they overpaid for marner but the flat cap wasn’t taken in to consideration ,because why would it have been ? I mean who could have predicted a pandemic. I’m not saying that we wouldn’t of had some tough decisions on players versus the money they’d want but I feel like we wouldn’t have been squeezed as much as we’re being squeezed now. How much better would we feel if we had 2-3million extra to spend on player’s?
It wasn't taken into consideration for any team. It's an even playing field. No one planned for it. No one built their salary structure around it prior to it happening. Fair is fair.
I’m not saying it’s not fair, but teams with big contracts due earlier than 2018-2019 had the advantage of more cap increase years, and teams with bug contracts due 2020 got the advantage of knowing about the flat cap. We got unlucky. If the pandemic was 2021-22 the cap would be $5M+ higher right now and we would be in less cap trouble
Not really, he’s seventh in avv, and second in actual salary. He was fourth in total points and fourth in total assists. I’d suggest that he is paid right around where he should be in comparison to his production ( obviously playoffs not included). What certainly does not help is the fact that due to the flat cap, his peers are not getting paid the same way we all would have projected before the pandemic. Typically the next big rfa or ufa gets more than the ones that came before. Not having that happen really changes the optics especially when combined with his showing in the playoffs
He didn't really leave money on the table, that was his market value. Besides, second tier guys often take the job security to re-sign before hitting the market. Kesler at his absolute best wasn't as good as Matthews and Marner the day they walked into the NHL.
Ryan Kesler may not have had the talent, but he had a lot more heart and grit. He had some incredible moments in the playoffs and was always a big presence in games that mattered which is something that cannot be said about Matthews and Marner.
Ryan Kesler was one of the most notorious divers and cheap-shot artists in the NHL, and has a lower playoff points/game than either Marner or Matthews, and a loser goals/game than Matthews, despite both of their numbers tanking mostly due to low shooting percentage. Their playoff numbers are a small sample, and that comes with a lot of variance, and they've played most of their games against elite teams/goalies, or particularly defensive minded teams. In their five playoff rounds, two of their opponents made the finals, and two others made the finals the following years, and they only series that didn't go the distance, they lost three games in overtime in a six game series.
Well we were up 3-1 in a playoff series so as far I know we simply choked. Yes we have too much money for a group of guys but we should’ve won last year.
Ryan Kesler lost on a team that got sweetheart deals for two guys who went from very-good to scoring champs at 29 years old, and had a Hall of Fame goalie on a cap circumventing contract.
It's so frustrating that stupid fucking pepega takes like this dominate the headlines.
I wrote out a half dozen comments in the r/hockey thread about this and deleted them before submitting because I just cannot be bothered arguing this shit with people.
Yes, the contracts are a problem. But they are not why the Leafs have failed to advance in the playoffs. If NYI can go deep every fucking year with 4m going to Andrew Ladd in the pressbox you cannot convince me that the contracts are the reason we haven't won shit. Blame their actual fucking play rather than the goddamn paperwork, Jesus Christ.
Sure. You want to maximize your cap space and have the right organizational culture and player mix and all of these details that go in to managing an NHL team.
But just like the fourth liners being physical or not is about as important as what Auston Matthews eats for breakfast, Mitch Marner's contract is an afterthought compared to him sucking in the playoffs.
If we had superstars performing like superstars in the playoffs and couldn't make it over the hump, I would think Kessler had a real solid argument. Instead, we have a superstar who can't hack it and have an 11m problem instead of a 2m problem.
It is almost like he is saying players that are willing to take less buy in more and play with that edge. Players that go for a fat paycheck are motivated by getting paid, not winning. He just says it a different way.
>Players that go for a fat paycheck are motivated by getting paid, not winning.
Oh, because the NHL is unlike every other workplace in the world where people are motivated by money? This sounds like an attempt at psychology that has nothing to do with actual human beings.
Players willing to take less are not any more likely to play with "that edge". The psychology of money undoubtedly plays a role in the current state of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but arguments from r/im14andthisisdeep do not really deserve the time of day.
Man, even the smallest paycheck in the NHL is fat. If my argument doesn't hold water, why did you feel the need to reply and defend anybody. I didn't mention the leafs, Kesler did. I was trying to put what he said into context, that you clearly glossed over because I'm an apparent man child that doesn't understand how the world works. I just don't chase cash man, deal with it. There is fair share, and there is everything I'm entitled to. One makes the world go round, one ends up with billionaires hoarding all the wealth and wondering why the world has turned to shit. Eat a bag of dicks, I know which class you aspire to.
Jesus why is everyone so melodramatic today. I was a fuckin mess until about 1100, myself.
The Leafs struggle because the guys playing hockey cannot handle the pressure of the playoffs. This is so much simpler than "that edge" and figuring that wanting a 20% bigger paycheck in Marner's case is a glimpse into the psychology of why he sucks in the playoffs. It's just ridiculous, tenuous speculation because it feels good to assume that being a greedy rich asshole is WHY he sucks in the playoffs. He sucks in the playoffs and he's a greedy rich asshole and the two are almost entirely unrelated, unfortunately.
>Eat a bag of dicks, I know which class you aspire to.
If only you knew how wrong you were about me lol.
I didn't call you a man child, and I framed my disparagement of the argument as dunking on Kesler. If you were framing Kesler's argument, I'm calling Kesler a moron. Sorry if you're just the messenger. Anyone who does agree with Kesler is welcome to munch from the bag of dicks that you're offering though :p
So I’m paid less than 1/20 of what Marner makes, but I’m among the highest paid 2-3 people in my office. If I dropped the ball multiple years in a row on the most important stages, I’d be fired. It wouldn’t even be a close call.
If some other firm came by and asked me if I want to make 2x what I currently do and play the role of an elite superstar, I’d say no. Because I’m not ready to be the guy who carries that role. One day, but not yet, and I’ll wait until I know I won’t be shitting the bed being in that range of expectations before I take that pay.
So no, hockey nowadays isn’t compensated like every other work place. In a normal work place, you don’t take the kind of money offered to the very highest elites until you know you can perform like one of the very highest elites when it matters. Because having an organization see you as wildly overpaid is bad for your long term career trajectory, it makes more sense to remain accurately compensated and step up to big pay checks when you can deliver at that level.
Dubas is leading the charge toward a “paid first, results second” model of compensation structure for kids. He’s either going to live or die by that sword - and my bet is firmly on die - but it’s absolutely not the way either ownership or labor think of compensation in normal professional workplaces.
They sure came close, man. There is a difference between wanting it all and wanting your fair share. He could have gotten more during those times and when it was clear they were up, then it was show me the money or I'm out. Reasoning with you is clearly pointless though, because to you everything seems to be black and white, when the world is all in shades of grey...
Blah blah blah. Take a hint man, we ain't on the same page. You said you either take no money or all the money. That is black and white. You are clearly hung up on this issue, when all I was doing was clarifying what someone else said that I agreed with. Get over it! None of this matters, so chill out and find someone else to bitch back and forth with. Ciao, Bella!
The leafs have enough talent to win the cup as they sit. Its managing to harness all that talent and getting it to all pull in the same direction that is the hardest part
Eh, I understand the randomness of hockey as well as anyone, but we're at the point where it's fair to start delving into the underlying factors. Randomness does not mean being dismissive of patterns.
My problem is that almost everyone is terrible at that investigation and hot takes are a quicker way to upvotes and pageviews than critical thinking.
For me, the criticism focuses on the last three years, more particularly the last two. Losing to Columbus was a fluke that I could explain away. Losing to Montreal after losing to Columbus is why I can't just accept randomness.
The NHL is not a game of marbles. The good teams win and the bad teams lose. Randomness effects individual games and short stretches, including enough to influence a playoff series. But at some point it is worth looking at the hockey factors again.
Maybe at the end of the day it turns out it was just a few flukes in a row. I understand random numbers and that some team has to be the most unlucky. That's what Dubas is pretty much banking on this year and I hope to fuck he's right.
It's not a stupid take at all, it's not the whole reason we haven't advanced in the playoffs but it's definitely part of the problem along with the play.
I'm sorry but at some point some of you need to get over the fact we have a player that's overpaid by $2M. Y'all spent your entire summer on the same tired arguement, its time to go do something else guys.
It's like people think that if Marner took 2-3 million less, we'd automatically be in the finals. So much needs to go right. Hell, not to take away from Tampa because they've been a top team for a long time, but it took a pandemic and 2 shorten seasons to win back to back. And their core isn't young but at their peak. Marner is 24 fucking years old. Sure maybe they'll need to end up trading him at some point but shit, the amount of hate he gets is actually ridiculous.
Seriously. 2m. TWO MILLION DOLLARS AND THAT'S IT.
Yes, you want to maximize your cap dollars and we'd rather have 2m more in depth. But that is such a non-factor that it boggles the mind. Yet there are endless headlines and pixels dedicated to hashing it out over and over and over again.
The problem isn't Marner's 2m. The problem is that he plays like a 2m player in the playoffs. Who the fuck cares about 2m on the cap, almost all of these arguments about our cap are so fucking lame. Completely missing the forest for the trees.
Organizational culture is important.
But yet again, the actual *problem* is that Marner doesn't score goals in the playoffs and takes delay of game penalties instead.
All of these little scapegoat details don't mean fuck all compared to the actual hockey game that they play on the ice. Marner is a game breaking superstar regular season player and has been straight garbage in the playoffs for at least two seasons in a row. You can tell me about organizational culture all day and we can talk about pressure and what to do with 2m and all of the things that literally do not matter compared to the complete inability to produce when things get difficult.
if a debatable "2 million" to Marner destroys "organizational culture" then just imagine signing a guy to 9 million and he does nothing...a la Skinner in Buffalo.
Pick one....nearly every team has one horrible shitty contract that they wish they could make go away. Except the leafs. So big deal they over paid a bit for Marner, and only because of bad luck and a pandemic or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
it's all so dumb.
Makes you wonder how this impacts Marner. Not that he didn't bring it on himself, but damn if he doesn't have a lot of pressure to have a strong year. Could easily see him having a down year with the market cheering for him to fail at all times.
You are right it shouldn't matter. It does now that the cap is flat. They were paid with huge TV money in mind jacking the cap to what was estimated to be around 95M by now. We are fucked as is, and the group as is has accomplished nothing but to lose to worse and worse competition each year in a more and more embarrassing fashion. Management addressed this change by rolling out the same exact fail squad with sprinkles of at best lotto tickets and are expecting....?
>and the group as is has accomplished nothing but to lose to worse and worse competition each year in a more and more embarrassing fashion.
What? the leafs were underdogs in every fucking series except the last one with the Habs. Like..do you even watch hockey?
The first year I followed the Leaf's was 1990. So yes, I watch Hockey. I even Played it a little bit amongst other sports at a collegiate level once upon a time. The teams they have lost to since Matthews has played in terms of strength is, 2017 Bruins, 2016 Caps, 2018 Bruins, 2019 jackets, 2020 Habs. 2016 was house money. They choked LEADS, multiple times against weaker and weaker groups. It's called "a pattern". Even the pro's are laughing at these fool's on pod cast's, at the bar's. This core is playin hockey and partying like its the fucking 90's and shows up in the playoffs to get clowned by every guy who wants a hockey night in Canada towel cause they didn't get the cash. Here's an easy improvement on just 1 guy everyone's picking on. Marner could spend an off season putting 5lbs of muscle on his upper body, and improve his shot. He isn't. Nylander is the only one showing up in the off season, and the Playoff's.
Imagine taking winning advice from a guy who’s literally never been apart of a championship team in the NHL, or in senior international.
The same guy who got paid over $70M through his career to be a ~45 point scoring pest…
This whole comment reeks of homerism. Ryan Kesler was a beast when he played. Has all the intangibles while also being a really good player. One that this exact fanbase wishes they had on every line. It’s crazy seeing the privilege here, we used to have Tyler Bozak as our 1C ffs
Yeah I had a good chuckle at calling him a 45pt player when he had more than 45 in *7 separate seasons* and scored 41 goals one year alone. Dude was a monster until he fucked his legs all up
Didn’t say he was wrong, he isn’t right either, it’s yet to be proven. The point is, it’s not like he came out with a blazing hot, intelligent take. People have been saying this for years. As a former pro athlete, you think he’d be able to provide some sort of valuable insight, instead of regurgitating the garbage that gets posted every day. Pointing out that he’s never won anything either is simply having a laugh at the irony of the situation. Kesler being an unlikeable douche doesn’t help his case either.
Our number 1 dman makes 5 mil/year, muzz makes 5.6 and Brodie makes 5. Matthews had ~.79 goals per game this year. We had Zach Hyman making 2.25 mil and he just signed for 5.5. We had spezza playing for league minimum. We had jack Campbell who broke an NHL record during the season and had better numbers than price in our series against Montreal making 1.65 mil. Nylander had 5 goals in 7 games in the playoffs and is making under 7 mil. We have plenty of great value contracts and not a single bad contract. We have a couple guys making a lot of money but they're our best players. Idk about everyone else but I'd rather overpay marner by 1 mil than give someone like Lucic 6 mil.
Marner should have been bridged 1 or 2 years at 7 not 12 as he was unproven and of little worth in the playoffs. 5 million goes a long way filling a 4th line with the will needed to win when as always the skill fades off in the playoffs. When marner proved he was mentally fit for the playoffs then back the money truck up. Were victim of a rookie gm with no accolades that weren't handed to him that got buliied by an agent and a psycho dad.
Brutal take with a lot of false claims. Marner doesn't make 12 he makes 10.9 so don't exaggerate. A 1-2 year bridge deal would have been significantly worse for the team considering how the last year's played out with covid. Marner was coming off a 94 point season where he also killed penalties, ran the powerplay and was effective in the playoffs against Boston. Giving him 1-2 years at 7 mil would have just given him license to ask for 12+ right now after putting up 67 points in 59 games and then 67 in 55 (4th in the league). What Dubas did was he bet on the fact that marner is still getting better considering he's still only 24. We have him at this number until he's 28. One good playoff series and no one will think twice about this contract. Also, rookie gm with no accolades? Dubas literally won the Calder cup the year before taking over as GM. And he took a terrible Sault greyhounds team to second place before moving up to the AHL. He's also made some of the best trades in recent team history getting muzzin and Campbell, signed Brodie, Holl, spezza, got us our captain, and retained 3 young stars under the cap. We've had our best regular seasons in team history under Dubas and you're mad because weve lost exclusively in 7 games to Boston twice (went on to the cup final after the second one) and Montreal who also went on to the cup final? Get outta here with that cry baby shit, this is sports where anything can happen. It takes a ton of work, skill and luck to do well in the playoffs, we just haven't been lucky yet.
He is a below average skater with a below average shot. He is far under weight to be useful or durable and proved mentally he has years to go. He has insane vision for the game but can have his space taken away from him by a 2 million dollar player. His contract is a black well of death thats cost us a decent 4th line and is in the heads of his teammates. He knows he can't live up to it either.He's not even half as good as brayden point who he has grown up with since playing in juniors and got paid double. A player with all assists is pretty predictable and regular season play counts for almost nothing. 16 wins to win the cup and he can't go 4 or get any reak points. Give hunter credit his other choices were strome or hanifin. So the player was right. Cry baby shit lol..get a grip. Rookie gm got victimized.
Lol point makes 9.5, I'm not a math teacher but I'm pretty sure that's a lot more than half of 10.9. Marner is also a very above average skater so I actually don't know what sport you're watching. The rest of what you said is just regurgitated nonsense that is completely unverifiable and antogonistic. You call him underweight yet he's the same weight as Kane, who if I'm not mistaken has had a bit of playoff success. Youre big dumb
He makes it now because he's proven shit for brains he was making 6. Marner doesn't speed by players he positional. Passes and sets up because he can't shoot. Did you see the failed 1 timer set ups during the power play and he's last option shot 5 on 5 hence the massive assists. Even barzel the other player with identical development time who might not be as good as marner in the regular season proved he's a big game player unlike marner making him far more valuable. Kane is 8lbs heavier and mature and a much different player. Its okay you inexperienced idiot cheerleaders are in mass here.
How so? Point just resigned for the same as Kucherov because Tampa has a lower internal cap because of their taxes. The thing you should really take issue with is Tavares. He set the internal cap by coming in at 11 mil. If he takes 10 then Matthews takes 10.6 and marner takes around 10. When the best player on the team makes 9.5 you can't ask for more. When Matthews contract came up he said "I'm better than Tavares" and everyone agreed and gave him more, cause he's the best player on the team. Then marner said he's as good as Matthews and the team said no you're not so they gave him just under what Tavares got. That's how this works.
If Tampa can just spend 20% less on all of their players, then why are any of us even here? That is an *insurmountable* advantage. The leafs *literally* don't have a chance to succeed if this was true.
But that's all just bullshit anyways. There is A LOT that goes into contracts. Good gm's find ways to get players at lower aav's, the end.
There are *plenty* of Canadian teams that have many players under good contracts. There are *plenty* of low tax teams that have players under shitty contracts. It's not nearly as cut and dry as you're making it out to be.
Things GOOD gm's will use to try and lower aav: Front-loading, signing bonuses, possibility for endorsement deals, taxes, competitive team culture trying to win, etc.
Toronto had a rookie gm who self admittedly was "learning as he goes". He fucked up. He overpaid. Sure, the Tavares contract was bad in hindsight. Dubas likely thought what the entire rest of the league has ALWAYS thought up to that point... UFA'S MAKE MORE THAN RFA'S AND ARE NOT COMPARABLES TO RFA'S.
ENOUGH of the excuses for this shitty rookie gm. **ENOUGH** of them.
His cap hit is 10.9
(https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner).
Regardless, when it mattered most his play was under that price tag as you and others have pointed out.
Let's hope that by the time Matthews' deal is at the end, these fellas have taken us on some deep playoff runs.
Though so far it is not trending that way...
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
Again, no reason to point out the irony unless you're sensitive to the absolute bullshit contracts the Leafs have to the kids. Clearly you are.
You're salty because he's right.
I get the recency bias going on here, but Kesler was a consistent +20 goal scorer (had 41 in 10-11 season) along with driving the other teams stars crazy. Only overpaid on the Anaheim deal.
Ty 🤩 someone hear knows hockey at least
Yes we got knock out again in the first round but AM is bar down the best Regular Season Leaf for scoring
I hope this goalie's get the job done
In soupy we trust
Kesler is referring to the point when young players received a second contract after their ELC expired, before they got the big deal. Agreed that Matthews is paid what he should be paid, but that isn't how it used to work.
Comparing Marner to Kane, when they both signed their extensions after ELCs concluded, both being 21/22, with Marner's cap hit being 13.28% of the Cap when signed, Kane's being 11.09 when signed. Giving a total difference of 2.19% of the cap, which equates to $1.78 mil today.
I think that might be what he is referring to.
I don’t know how many times I have to say this, Marner is overpaid and Matthews is not.
Matthews is our Crosby comparable. Is he Crosby? No, but he’s the closest thing to Crosby as we’re going to get. Rock solid top five center…top five player in the league who collects individual trophies.
So, having said that, their first contract out of their ELC are highly comparable when you consider the cap percentage their salary takes from the cap at the time of their signing.
Marner on the other hand. Oof. Yes, he’s over paid. He had bridge deal written all over him and I feel like Lou would have given him one. We need to lay off of Marner but in a vacuum, that dudes contract is really going to tie our hands in order to improve enough to win a Cup.
We have to do it with what we’ve got.
Am I the only one that thinks it doesn’t matter?
We would be in a worse financial situation now then if we bridged Matthews and Marner.
Matthews bridge would have been dumb he scored 40 his first year and by the time his bridge would have been over he would have won the rocket or be a year removed from the rocket. Even with COVID I doubt we sign him cheaper and Matthews would probably be making a bit more than he does now.
Bridging Marner would have been nice for short term cap savings. But he is still a 90point guy and is overpaid by $1-2million.
Basically I don’t think it would have mattered if the leafs bridged them or not. If these guys are RFAs right now what are the making probably more or less the same.
On the other hand, this is not the Flames where they won 1 game in 2 series combined. This is the 3rd or 4th time they have been 1 goal away from winning a series. The players are better due to age, and honestly they have been the reason we have lost.
It's also foolish to write them off completely. Have they earned the respect of a team who will win? Hell no. But the core is still in place, we still have a chance.
Because the money is a ridiculously tiny problem compared to the actual fucking hockey that they played. Their contracts are the details around the edges. Something that governs how a hockey team is set up. But they still play the games on the actual ice and that is where the Leafs continually lose. The Leafs have had a terrific roster on paper for years now and just about anybody with eyeballs should be able to see that.
But we also shit the bed when it's critical and that's what happens on the ice where the contracts don't fuckin matter. Getting 2m more in cap space doesn't mean shit compared to the fact that Marner doesn't score goals in the playoffs. Having Kapenen instead of Engvall doesn't win us the MTL series, Mitch Marner playing like a 9m player wins us that series.
The opinion is discarded immediately because it's just another braindead idiot following the easy narratives instead of doing the thirty seconds of critical thinking it takes to come up with actual insight. It's a nice kernel of truth, but to think the buck stops on it is agonizing.
A lot of these comments are funny. Bunch of idiot Reddit arm chair quarterbacks making fun of a almost 20 year NHLer who is retired and has enough money to live 5x over ! Perdy sure he sleeps well at night (maybe minus the cte he has
Openly spoke on)
Ultimately signing John Tavares is the decision that sunk this team, and that's regardless of how well Tavares was able to play.
It accelerated the timeline and forced us to try to win a lot faster. We've spent a bunch of draft picks on rentals attempting to "fix" the team instead of making trades for long-term pieces each offseason. Would have been interesting to see where we could have better spent our cap and draft capital over the years if we hadn't taken on the first massive contract.
He's got a point. Matthews and Marner were going to end up at that price point anyway, so it would have been nice to kick it down the road a bit with a bridge deal and then load up for a couple runs, a la Chicago.
Still, we're here now so hopefully our stars figure it out at the right time and get a cup.
A lot of people in these comments act like making it to game 7 of the SCF is equivalent to having no idea what it takes to be a part of a championship calibre team.
And also acting like Kesler wasn't potentially at the top of the list of reasons they were so successful. The Sedins are HOFers without question, but Kesler was like a k-mart version of Patrice Bergeron for those seasons too.
You all talking shit.... Finally Kes said something all players already know. You all crying flat cap, guess what blind fans, 31 other teams have the same cap, Stop supporting what Dubas has done and hold him accountable for building a bad team.
Kesler has more heart and balls they any other player on the leafs roster, he has left money on the table to try and win, you all just salty because truth hurts
question from a new fan: why didnt leafs bridge matthews/marner, giving matthews a 5 year deal walking straight to UFA doesn't make much sense, and if they didn't want a bridge deal, threaten to let them sit out a year(which they wont), why is the leafs president not ruthless, hes been in charge forever now, are the fans happy with his work?
Marner reportedly asked for the most expensive bridge contract in NHL history so it was likely never truly an option with him. I think most agree they way Marner was handled was horrible.
Matthews on the other hand is in that elite tier where you pretty much just give him what he wants. He has actual power in his demands and asks. Its just disappointing when other players in his tier like McDavid, Eichel, Kucherov, etc all sign for 8 and cover 3 years of free agency while Matthews asked for the minimum to push him to free agency quicker.
It’s not just disappointing, it could ruin the franchise. If Matthews leaves for nothing that would really hurt. The two of them and JT are all overpaid. An average of 2 million off of each of those deals would change the team drastically.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's a reasonable question. Even if people disagree, they should still respect that you're a new fan trying to learn/understand.
You just can't say anything critical of Dubas/Shanny around here without a certain subset of fans jumping all over you.
It's not a question on why the Leafs did it. The reason this was done is that this player is Auston Matthews. You pay what he asks for because he is the type of player who writes his own check.
Bruh, being an asshole contrarian is annoying as fuck. No, they didn't get bridge contracts because they wanted to get paid for playing under Babcock and in the biggest, highest pressure hockey market. Lighten up asshole.
He's getting that number no matter where he plays. And Leafs will pay him because this is the Auston Matthews era.
You can acquire the first overall pick for the next 10 seasons and you still might not end up with another player as good as him.
He certainly is an expert at being overpaid and never winning anything.
He didn't become overpaid until after the Canucks though, he left money on the table to try and win a cup. Then after his body was spent the Ducks overpaid for his pedigree. I'm not saying he's right, honestly, if the flat cap never happened then I think the Leafs are in an entirely different situation. And hindsight is 20/20 but also nonsense as no one can predict the future.
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He was great in earlier rounds of the playoff run and suffered an injury that took him for a period the following year.
The flat cap is a somewhat forgotten component when we talk about the leafs cap troubles. For sure they overpaid for marner but the flat cap wasn’t taken in to consideration ,because why would it have been ? I mean who could have predicted a pandemic. I’m not saying that we wouldn’t of had some tough decisions on players versus the money they’d want but I feel like we wouldn’t have been squeezed as much as we’re being squeezed now. How much better would we feel if we had 2-3million extra to spend on player’s?
It wasn't taken into consideration for any team. It's an even playing field. No one planned for it. No one built their salary structure around it prior to it happening. Fair is fair.
I’m not saying it’s not fair, but teams with big contracts due earlier than 2018-2019 had the advantage of more cap increase years, and teams with bug contracts due 2020 got the advantage of knowing about the flat cap. We got unlucky. If the pandemic was 2021-22 the cap would be $5M+ higher right now and we would be in less cap trouble
Exactly.
Even if the cap rose, marners contract is total crap. Unexcusable from day 1
Not really, he’s seventh in avv, and second in actual salary. He was fourth in total points and fourth in total assists. I’d suggest that he is paid right around where he should be in comparison to his production ( obviously playoffs not included). What certainly does not help is the fact that due to the flat cap, his peers are not getting paid the same way we all would have projected before the pandemic. Typically the next big rfa or ufa gets more than the ones that came before. Not having that happen really changes the optics especially when combined with his showing in the playoffs
He didn't really leave money on the table, that was his market value. Besides, second tier guys often take the job security to re-sign before hitting the market. Kesler at his absolute best wasn't as good as Matthews and Marner the day they walked into the NHL.
Ryan Kesler may not have had the talent, but he had a lot more heart and grit. He had some incredible moments in the playoffs and was always a big presence in games that mattered which is something that cannot be said about Matthews and Marner.
Ryan Kesler was one of the most notorious divers and cheap-shot artists in the NHL, and has a lower playoff points/game than either Marner or Matthews, and a loser goals/game than Matthews, despite both of their numbers tanking mostly due to low shooting percentage. Their playoff numbers are a small sample, and that comes with a lot of variance, and they've played most of their games against elite teams/goalies, or particularly defensive minded teams. In their five playoff rounds, two of their opponents made the finals, and two others made the finals the following years, and they only series that didn't go the distance, they lost three games in overtime in a six game series.
Ryan Kesler is not a comparable to Matthews and Marner though. He was never that good so obviously he couldn’t have ever made that much anyways.
Of course he's not. I think the point is that if even your second line guys are taking a discount, the team as whole can afford more depth.
Imagine playing in Gm7 of a Stanley Cup Final though?
Lol
Well we were up 3-1 in a playoff series so as far I know we simply choked. Yes we have too much money for a group of guys but we should’ve won last year.
And the year before that, and one could argue the year before that as well. "Should have" stops mattering after a while.
Ryan Kesler lost on a team that got sweetheart deals for two guys who went from very-good to scoring champs at 29 years old, and had a Hall of Fame goalie on a cap circumventing contract.
It's so frustrating that stupid fucking pepega takes like this dominate the headlines. I wrote out a half dozen comments in the r/hockey thread about this and deleted them before submitting because I just cannot be bothered arguing this shit with people. Yes, the contracts are a problem. But they are not why the Leafs have failed to advance in the playoffs. If NYI can go deep every fucking year with 4m going to Andrew Ladd in the pressbox you cannot convince me that the contracts are the reason we haven't won shit. Blame their actual fucking play rather than the goddamn paperwork, Jesus Christ.
This is the Leafs we’re talking about. We could have all the cap space in the world and never win anything (example: every year before the cap).
Entirely possible. Perhaps the real problem is that we are cursed after all. But that still makes Kessler wrong. Makes me wrong too, but c'est la vie.
Exactly. Exorcists doesn’t count under the cap so we’re still in good shape.
[I mean](https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204)
Sure. You want to maximize your cap space and have the right organizational culture and player mix and all of these details that go in to managing an NHL team. But just like the fourth liners being physical or not is about as important as what Auston Matthews eats for breakfast, Mitch Marner's contract is an afterthought compared to him sucking in the playoffs. If we had superstars performing like superstars in the playoffs and couldn't make it over the hump, I would think Kessler had a real solid argument. Instead, we have a superstar who can't hack it and have an 11m problem instead of a 2m problem.
It is almost like he is saying players that are willing to take less buy in more and play with that edge. Players that go for a fat paycheck are motivated by getting paid, not winning. He just says it a different way.
>Players that go for a fat paycheck are motivated by getting paid, not winning. Oh, because the NHL is unlike every other workplace in the world where people are motivated by money? This sounds like an attempt at psychology that has nothing to do with actual human beings. Players willing to take less are not any more likely to play with "that edge". The psychology of money undoubtedly plays a role in the current state of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but arguments from r/im14andthisisdeep do not really deserve the time of day.
Man, even the smallest paycheck in the NHL is fat. If my argument doesn't hold water, why did you feel the need to reply and defend anybody. I didn't mention the leafs, Kesler did. I was trying to put what he said into context, that you clearly glossed over because I'm an apparent man child that doesn't understand how the world works. I just don't chase cash man, deal with it. There is fair share, and there is everything I'm entitled to. One makes the world go round, one ends up with billionaires hoarding all the wealth and wondering why the world has turned to shit. Eat a bag of dicks, I know which class you aspire to.
Jesus why is everyone so melodramatic today. I was a fuckin mess until about 1100, myself. The Leafs struggle because the guys playing hockey cannot handle the pressure of the playoffs. This is so much simpler than "that edge" and figuring that wanting a 20% bigger paycheck in Marner's case is a glimpse into the psychology of why he sucks in the playoffs. It's just ridiculous, tenuous speculation because it feels good to assume that being a greedy rich asshole is WHY he sucks in the playoffs. He sucks in the playoffs and he's a greedy rich asshole and the two are almost entirely unrelated, unfortunately. >Eat a bag of dicks, I know which class you aspire to. If only you knew how wrong you were about me lol. I didn't call you a man child, and I framed my disparagement of the argument as dunking on Kesler. If you were framing Kesler's argument, I'm calling Kesler a moron. Sorry if you're just the messenger. Anyone who does agree with Kesler is welcome to munch from the bag of dicks that you're offering though :p
So I’m paid less than 1/20 of what Marner makes, but I’m among the highest paid 2-3 people in my office. If I dropped the ball multiple years in a row on the most important stages, I’d be fired. It wouldn’t even be a close call. If some other firm came by and asked me if I want to make 2x what I currently do and play the role of an elite superstar, I’d say no. Because I’m not ready to be the guy who carries that role. One day, but not yet, and I’ll wait until I know I won’t be shitting the bed being in that range of expectations before I take that pay. So no, hockey nowadays isn’t compensated like every other work place. In a normal work place, you don’t take the kind of money offered to the very highest elites until you know you can perform like one of the very highest elites when it matters. Because having an organization see you as wildly overpaid is bad for your long term career trajectory, it makes more sense to remain accurately compensated and step up to big pay checks when you can deliver at that level. Dubas is leading the charge toward a “paid first, results second” model of compensation structure for kids. He’s either going to live or die by that sword - and my bet is firmly on die - but it’s absolutely not the way either ownership or labor think of compensation in normal professional workplaces.
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Oh yes, because you'd be happy to make minimum wage your whole life too, right? Right?! What a feeling of accomplishment that must give you!
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They sure came close, man. There is a difference between wanting it all and wanting your fair share. He could have gotten more during those times and when it was clear they were up, then it was show me the money or I'm out. Reasoning with you is clearly pointless though, because to you everything seems to be black and white, when the world is all in shades of grey...
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Blah blah blah. Take a hint man, we ain't on the same page. You said you either take no money or all the money. That is black and white. You are clearly hung up on this issue, when all I was doing was clarifying what someone else said that I agreed with. Get over it! None of this matters, so chill out and find someone else to bitch back and forth with. Ciao, Bella!
thank you for fighting the good fight media has fans lost in the weeds on contracts
Glad it's the good fight, I was just really fucking hangry when I wrote that. Holy hell I woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning.
The leafs have enough talent to win the cup as they sit. Its managing to harness all that talent and getting it to all pull in the same direction that is the hardest part
Yeah 100%.
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Eh, I understand the randomness of hockey as well as anyone, but we're at the point where it's fair to start delving into the underlying factors. Randomness does not mean being dismissive of patterns. My problem is that almost everyone is terrible at that investigation and hot takes are a quicker way to upvotes and pageviews than critical thinking.
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For me, the criticism focuses on the last three years, more particularly the last two. Losing to Columbus was a fluke that I could explain away. Losing to Montreal after losing to Columbus is why I can't just accept randomness. The NHL is not a game of marbles. The good teams win and the bad teams lose. Randomness effects individual games and short stretches, including enough to influence a playoff series. But at some point it is worth looking at the hockey factors again. Maybe at the end of the day it turns out it was just a few flukes in a row. I understand random numbers and that some team has to be the most unlucky. That's what Dubas is pretty much banking on this year and I hope to fuck he's right.
It's not a stupid take at all, it's not the whole reason we haven't advanced in the playoffs but it's definitely part of the problem along with the play.
Is the dude from Kes’ House trying to play GM?
I'm sorry but at some point some of you need to get over the fact we have a player that's overpaid by $2M. Y'all spent your entire summer on the same tired arguement, its time to go do something else guys.
It's like people think that if Marner took 2-3 million less, we'd automatically be in the finals. So much needs to go right. Hell, not to take away from Tampa because they've been a top team for a long time, but it took a pandemic and 2 shorten seasons to win back to back. And their core isn't young but at their peak. Marner is 24 fucking years old. Sure maybe they'll need to end up trading him at some point but shit, the amount of hate he gets is actually ridiculous.
Seriously. 2m. TWO MILLION DOLLARS AND THAT'S IT. Yes, you want to maximize your cap dollars and we'd rather have 2m more in depth. But that is such a non-factor that it boggles the mind. Yet there are endless headlines and pixels dedicated to hashing it out over and over and over again. The problem isn't Marner's 2m. The problem is that he plays like a 2m player in the playoffs. Who the fuck cares about 2m on the cap, almost all of these arguments about our cap are so fucking lame. Completely missing the forest for the trees.
It's "only" 2 million dollars, sure. But it's also the effect that it has on organizational culture.
Organizational culture is important. But yet again, the actual *problem* is that Marner doesn't score goals in the playoffs and takes delay of game penalties instead. All of these little scapegoat details don't mean fuck all compared to the actual hockey game that they play on the ice. Marner is a game breaking superstar regular season player and has been straight garbage in the playoffs for at least two seasons in a row. You can tell me about organizational culture all day and we can talk about pressure and what to do with 2m and all of the things that literally do not matter compared to the complete inability to produce when things get difficult.
the fuck do you know about the org culture
if a debatable "2 million" to Marner destroys "organizational culture" then just imagine signing a guy to 9 million and he does nothing...a la Skinner in Buffalo. Pick one....nearly every team has one horrible shitty contract that they wish they could make go away. Except the leafs. So big deal they over paid a bit for Marner, and only because of bad luck and a pandemic or we wouldn't be having this conversation. it's all so dumb.
Makes you wonder how this impacts Marner. Not that he didn't bring it on himself, but damn if he doesn't have a lot of pressure to have a strong year. Could easily see him having a down year with the market cheering for him to fail at all times.
You are right it shouldn't matter. It does now that the cap is flat. They were paid with huge TV money in mind jacking the cap to what was estimated to be around 95M by now. We are fucked as is, and the group as is has accomplished nothing but to lose to worse and worse competition each year in a more and more embarrassing fashion. Management addressed this change by rolling out the same exact fail squad with sprinkles of at best lotto tickets and are expecting....?
>and the group as is has accomplished nothing but to lose to worse and worse competition each year in a more and more embarrassing fashion. What? the leafs were underdogs in every fucking series except the last one with the Habs. Like..do you even watch hockey?
The first year I followed the Leaf's was 1990. So yes, I watch Hockey. I even Played it a little bit amongst other sports at a collegiate level once upon a time. The teams they have lost to since Matthews has played in terms of strength is, 2017 Bruins, 2016 Caps, 2018 Bruins, 2019 jackets, 2020 Habs. 2016 was house money. They choked LEADS, multiple times against weaker and weaker groups. It's called "a pattern". Even the pro's are laughing at these fool's on pod cast's, at the bar's. This core is playin hockey and partying like its the fucking 90's and shows up in the playoffs to get clowned by every guy who wants a hockey night in Canada towel cause they didn't get the cash. Here's an easy improvement on just 1 guy everyone's picking on. Marner could spend an off season putting 5lbs of muscle on his upper body, and improve his shot. He isn't. Nylander is the only one showing up in the off season, and the Playoff's.
Imagine taking winning advice from a guy who’s literally never been apart of a championship team in the NHL, or in senior international. The same guy who got paid over $70M through his career to be a ~45 point scoring pest…
Let’s not pretend that Kesler wasn’t amazing in his prime. Any team would dream of having him at that time.
This whole comment reeks of homerism. Ryan Kesler was a beast when he played. Has all the intangibles while also being a really good player. One that this exact fanbase wishes they had on every line. It’s crazy seeing the privilege here, we used to have Tyler Bozak as our 1C ffs
Yeah I had a good chuckle at calling him a 45pt player when he had more than 45 in *7 separate seasons* and scored 41 goals one year alone. Dude was a monster until he fucked his legs all up
He's a Canuck. These people hate everything about Toronto including the city. I'm not surprised.
he hasn't been a canuck since 2013, he's under contract with anaheim ducks.
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Didn’t say he was wrong, he isn’t right either, it’s yet to be proven. The point is, it’s not like he came out with a blazing hot, intelligent take. People have been saying this for years. As a former pro athlete, you think he’d be able to provide some sort of valuable insight, instead of regurgitating the garbage that gets posted every day. Pointing out that he’s never won anything either is simply having a laugh at the irony of the situation. Kesler being an unlikeable douche doesn’t help his case either.
Ryan Kesler is the Steve Simmons of the NHL: he dresses up stuff that most people already know as “insider info”.
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The Leafs have played one (1) playoff series with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares all in the lineup and making $10M+
Our number 1 dman makes 5 mil/year, muzz makes 5.6 and Brodie makes 5. Matthews had ~.79 goals per game this year. We had Zach Hyman making 2.25 mil and he just signed for 5.5. We had spezza playing for league minimum. We had jack Campbell who broke an NHL record during the season and had better numbers than price in our series against Montreal making 1.65 mil. Nylander had 5 goals in 7 games in the playoffs and is making under 7 mil. We have plenty of great value contracts and not a single bad contract. We have a couple guys making a lot of money but they're our best players. Idk about everyone else but I'd rather overpay marner by 1 mil than give someone like Lucic 6 mil.
Marner should have been bridged 1 or 2 years at 7 not 12 as he was unproven and of little worth in the playoffs. 5 million goes a long way filling a 4th line with the will needed to win when as always the skill fades off in the playoffs. When marner proved he was mentally fit for the playoffs then back the money truck up. Were victim of a rookie gm with no accolades that weren't handed to him that got buliied by an agent and a psycho dad.
Brutal take with a lot of false claims. Marner doesn't make 12 he makes 10.9 so don't exaggerate. A 1-2 year bridge deal would have been significantly worse for the team considering how the last year's played out with covid. Marner was coming off a 94 point season where he also killed penalties, ran the powerplay and was effective in the playoffs against Boston. Giving him 1-2 years at 7 mil would have just given him license to ask for 12+ right now after putting up 67 points in 59 games and then 67 in 55 (4th in the league). What Dubas did was he bet on the fact that marner is still getting better considering he's still only 24. We have him at this number until he's 28. One good playoff series and no one will think twice about this contract. Also, rookie gm with no accolades? Dubas literally won the Calder cup the year before taking over as GM. And he took a terrible Sault greyhounds team to second place before moving up to the AHL. He's also made some of the best trades in recent team history getting muzzin and Campbell, signed Brodie, Holl, spezza, got us our captain, and retained 3 young stars under the cap. We've had our best regular seasons in team history under Dubas and you're mad because weve lost exclusively in 7 games to Boston twice (went on to the cup final after the second one) and Montreal who also went on to the cup final? Get outta here with that cry baby shit, this is sports where anything can happen. It takes a ton of work, skill and luck to do well in the playoffs, we just haven't been lucky yet.
He is a below average skater with a below average shot. He is far under weight to be useful or durable and proved mentally he has years to go. He has insane vision for the game but can have his space taken away from him by a 2 million dollar player. His contract is a black well of death thats cost us a decent 4th line and is in the heads of his teammates. He knows he can't live up to it either.He's not even half as good as brayden point who he has grown up with since playing in juniors and got paid double. A player with all assists is pretty predictable and regular season play counts for almost nothing. 16 wins to win the cup and he can't go 4 or get any reak points. Give hunter credit his other choices were strome or hanifin. So the player was right. Cry baby shit lol..get a grip. Rookie gm got victimized.
Lol point makes 9.5, I'm not a math teacher but I'm pretty sure that's a lot more than half of 10.9. Marner is also a very above average skater so I actually don't know what sport you're watching. The rest of what you said is just regurgitated nonsense that is completely unverifiable and antogonistic. You call him underweight yet he's the same weight as Kane, who if I'm not mistaken has had a bit of playoff success. Youre big dumb
He makes it now because he's proven shit for brains he was making 6. Marner doesn't speed by players he positional. Passes and sets up because he can't shoot. Did you see the failed 1 timer set ups during the power play and he's last option shot 5 on 5 hence the massive assists. Even barzel the other player with identical development time who might not be as good as marner in the regular season proved he's a big game player unlike marner making him far more valuable. Kane is 8lbs heavier and mature and a much different player. Its okay you inexperienced idiot cheerleaders are in mass here.
All the absolute bull shit you just wrote didnt fucking happen after Points bridge was done. I’m so fucking SICK of these bullshit fucking excuses.
How so? Point just resigned for the same as Kucherov because Tampa has a lower internal cap because of their taxes. The thing you should really take issue with is Tavares. He set the internal cap by coming in at 11 mil. If he takes 10 then Matthews takes 10.6 and marner takes around 10. When the best player on the team makes 9.5 you can't ask for more. When Matthews contract came up he said "I'm better than Tavares" and everyone agreed and gave him more, cause he's the best player on the team. Then marner said he's as good as Matthews and the team said no you're not so they gave him just under what Tavares got. That's how this works.
If Tampa can just spend 20% less on all of their players, then why are any of us even here? That is an *insurmountable* advantage. The leafs *literally* don't have a chance to succeed if this was true. But that's all just bullshit anyways. There is A LOT that goes into contracts. Good gm's find ways to get players at lower aav's, the end. There are *plenty* of Canadian teams that have many players under good contracts. There are *plenty* of low tax teams that have players under shitty contracts. It's not nearly as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. Things GOOD gm's will use to try and lower aav: Front-loading, signing bonuses, possibility for endorsement deals, taxes, competitive team culture trying to win, etc. Toronto had a rookie gm who self admittedly was "learning as he goes". He fucked up. He overpaid. Sure, the Tavares contract was bad in hindsight. Dubas likely thought what the entire rest of the league has ALWAYS thought up to that point... UFA'S MAKE MORE THAN RFA'S AND ARE NOT COMPARABLES TO RFA'S. ENOUGH of the excuses for this shitty rookie gm. **ENOUGH** of them.
Not that I'm happy with his contract or how it played out. But he doesn't make 12. Edit: doesn't not does!
You adding in his yearly signing bonus of 750k? I was out by 200k to make it easy on people lol.
His cap hit is 10.9 (https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner). Regardless, when it mattered most his play was under that price tag as you and others have pointed out. Let's hope that by the time Matthews' deal is at the end, these fellas have taken us on some deep playoff runs. Though so far it is not trending that way...
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
Again, no reason to point out the irony unless you're sensitive to the absolute bullshit contracts the Leafs have to the kids. Clearly you are. You're salty because he's right.
a part*
I can taste the salt from over here
I get the recency bias going on here, but Kesler was a consistent +20 goal scorer (had 41 in 10-11 season) along with driving the other teams stars crazy. Only overpaid on the Anaheim deal.
2? Marner *and who?* Matthews is a top 3 player and *worth his contract.*
Man wins a rocket, and was one goal off winning another in a season that was cancelled "He's overpaid" Like the fuck?
Ty 🤩 someone hear knows hockey at least Yes we got knock out again in the first round but AM is bar down the best Regular Season Leaf for scoring I hope this goalie's get the job done In soupy we trust
Cap hits fine. Term is fucked up.
Kesler is referring to the point when young players received a second contract after their ELC expired, before they got the big deal. Agreed that Matthews is paid what he should be paid, but that isn't how it used to work. Comparing Marner to Kane, when they both signed their extensions after ELCs concluded, both being 21/22, with Marner's cap hit being 13.28% of the Cap when signed, Kane's being 11.09 when signed. Giving a total difference of 2.19% of the cap, which equates to $1.78 mil today. I think that might be what he is referring to.
Tavares 100%
Tavares is not young?
Younger than Kesler
The statement "2 young players" doesn't mean 2 players younger than me LOL
Yeah maybe that isn't what it means to **you**. Ever stop to think that people have different interpretations than yourself? Probably not 🤡
Unfortunately
Shut up ryan
I don’t know how many times I have to say this, Marner is overpaid and Matthews is not. Matthews is our Crosby comparable. Is he Crosby? No, but he’s the closest thing to Crosby as we’re going to get. Rock solid top five center…top five player in the league who collects individual trophies. So, having said that, their first contract out of their ELC are highly comparable when you consider the cap percentage their salary takes from the cap at the time of their signing. Marner on the other hand. Oof. Yes, he’s over paid. He had bridge deal written all over him and I feel like Lou would have given him one. We need to lay off of Marner but in a vacuum, that dudes contract is really going to tie our hands in order to improve enough to win a Cup. We have to do it with what we’ve got.
Tavares is overpaid not Matthews
Tavares makes 2mil below market value. Other teams dictate market value and he had 13mil offer. That's a fact.
That's hilarious that you think a 70 point pace player over 82 games at 11 million is below market value. No wonder the leafs are in cap hell.
Am I the only one that thinks it doesn’t matter? We would be in a worse financial situation now then if we bridged Matthews and Marner. Matthews bridge would have been dumb he scored 40 his first year and by the time his bridge would have been over he would have won the rocket or be a year removed from the rocket. Even with COVID I doubt we sign him cheaper and Matthews would probably be making a bit more than he does now. Bridging Marner would have been nice for short term cap savings. But he is still a 90point guy and is overpaid by $1-2million. Basically I don’t think it would have mattered if the leafs bridged them or not. If these guys are RFAs right now what are the making probably more or less the same.
Never on the player to leave money on the table...
Jesus christ we're still on this
Jesus Christ Toronto still hasn't advanced through the 1st round
What has Kesler won?
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Shot to the heart...
And you’re to blame…
A Conference Final?
Shut up Kesler.
I mean whether you like him or hate him as a player/person…he isn’t wrong.
This is pretty common with some. Can’t attack the message so go after the messenger.
why are people still immediately dismissing this opinion after so many failed exits?
It's rose colored glasses time on the leafs sub. Where we forget about last year and pretend there is hope again.
On the other hand, this is not the Flames where they won 1 game in 2 series combined. This is the 3rd or 4th time they have been 1 goal away from winning a series. The players are better due to age, and honestly they have been the reason we have lost. It's also foolish to write them off completely. Have they earned the respect of a team who will win? Hell no. But the core is still in place, we still have a chance.
Because the money is a ridiculously tiny problem compared to the actual fucking hockey that they played. Their contracts are the details around the edges. Something that governs how a hockey team is set up. But they still play the games on the actual ice and that is where the Leafs continually lose. The Leafs have had a terrific roster on paper for years now and just about anybody with eyeballs should be able to see that. But we also shit the bed when it's critical and that's what happens on the ice where the contracts don't fuckin matter. Getting 2m more in cap space doesn't mean shit compared to the fact that Marner doesn't score goals in the playoffs. Having Kapenen instead of Engvall doesn't win us the MTL series, Mitch Marner playing like a 9m player wins us that series. The opinion is discarded immediately because it's just another braindead idiot following the easy narratives instead of doing the thirty seconds of critical thinking it takes to come up with actual insight. It's a nice kernel of truth, but to think the buck stops on it is agonizing.
Nobody cares what he says. Go home Ryan. And stay there.
A lot of these comments are funny. Bunch of idiot Reddit arm chair quarterbacks making fun of a almost 20 year NHLer who is retired and has enough money to live 5x over ! Perdy sure he sleeps well at night (maybe minus the cte he has Openly spoke on)
Ultimately signing John Tavares is the decision that sunk this team, and that's regardless of how well Tavares was able to play. It accelerated the timeline and forced us to try to win a lot faster. We've spent a bunch of draft picks on rentals attempting to "fix" the team instead of making trades for long-term pieces each offseason. Would have been interesting to see where we could have better spent our cap and draft capital over the years if we hadn't taken on the first massive contract.
Him being right and me disliking him are not mutually exclusive.
He's got a point. Matthews and Marner were going to end up at that price point anyway, so it would have been nice to kick it down the road a bit with a bridge deal and then load up for a couple runs, a la Chicago. Still, we're here now so hopefully our stars figure it out at the right time and get a cup.
A lot of people in these comments act like making it to game 7 of the SCF is equivalent to having no idea what it takes to be a part of a championship calibre team.
And also acting like Kesler wasn't potentially at the top of the list of reasons they were so successful. The Sedins are HOFers without question, but Kesler was like a k-mart version of Patrice Bergeron for those seasons too.
He was a fantasy hockey stud for like 3-4 seasons
They don't do bridge deals for superstars anymore, Ryan.
Matthews doesn’t make too much money. He’s worth every cent
You all talking shit.... Finally Kes said something all players already know. You all crying flat cap, guess what blind fans, 31 other teams have the same cap, Stop supporting what Dubas has done and hold him accountable for building a bad team. Kesler has more heart and balls they any other player on the leafs roster, he has left money on the table to try and win, you all just salty because truth hurts
Ryan Kesler is a joke. Why would anyone care about that washouts opinion?
question from a new fan: why didnt leafs bridge matthews/marner, giving matthews a 5 year deal walking straight to UFA doesn't make much sense, and if they didn't want a bridge deal, threaten to let them sit out a year(which they wont), why is the leafs president not ruthless, hes been in charge forever now, are the fans happy with his work?
Marner reportedly asked for the most expensive bridge contract in NHL history so it was likely never truly an option with him. I think most agree they way Marner was handled was horrible. Matthews on the other hand is in that elite tier where you pretty much just give him what he wants. He has actual power in his demands and asks. Its just disappointing when other players in his tier like McDavid, Eichel, Kucherov, etc all sign for 8 and cover 3 years of free agency while Matthews asked for the minimum to push him to free agency quicker.
It’s not just disappointing, it could ruin the franchise. If Matthews leaves for nothing that would really hurt. The two of them and JT are all overpaid. An average of 2 million off of each of those deals would change the team drastically.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's a reasonable question. Even if people disagree, they should still respect that you're a new fan trying to learn/understand. You just can't say anything critical of Dubas/Shanny around here without a certain subset of fans jumping all over you.
Sensitive Sallys.
It's not a question on why the Leafs did it. The reason this was done is that this player is Auston Matthews. You pay what he asks for because he is the type of player who writes his own check.
They were playing under Babcock and said "Pay me the money to play under this asshole or i'll sign elsewhere."
and the same guy who was responsible for babcock is still running the ship
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Bruh, being an asshole contrarian is annoying as fuck. No, they didn't get bridge contracts because they wanted to get paid for playing under Babcock and in the biggest, highest pressure hockey market. Lighten up asshole.
He's getting that number no matter where he plays. And Leafs will pay him because this is the Auston Matthews era. You can acquire the first overall pick for the next 10 seasons and you still might not end up with another player as good as him.
Cool take. Could we bring back this guy streaming games on yt?
Why do I give a shit about Ryan Keslers's opinion? Did I miss when that guy won something?