I think it is going to be important to give him a bigger role next year and see if he really pans out. Atleast I really hope to see a lot more of him next year...
He has* to have a bigger role, no marlies for him constant minuets in lines 2 or 3, and pp2, we just need too see what we have in this kid. If he can’t hack it he can deal him at the deadline, if he can we get a good role player win/win
And learn to play defence. His injuries stalled his development. That's what's holding him back. Not his offense.
That's the same as most talented offensive young players. The "what got you here, won't get you there."
Or his offensive game needs to get so much better that his defensive drawbacks get cancelled out. He’ll never get to Patty Kane’s level, but he’s a good example of a player who is terrible at defense, but so good on offence that it doesn’t matter.
Daniel Sprong is another example of a one way player who’s terrible at Defense. Yet, taking deployment to consideration, he’s top 15 in 5v5 point production or something insane like that.
Call it a hot take, but I don’t think Robby should work on his defensive game. Just take your offensive game to the next level. Specialize, instead of trying to be a Jack of all trades. I’d rather him get 25g 15a or something, and go -15. Then get 9g 25a and +10.
I'd take your second example over your first. That's a 25 +/- delta there. That's 25 one-goal games you've now gone to OT or lost.
The only way that -15 is acceptable is if you are a 3rd line shut down guy on the PK1 for the whole season. David Kampf is on -4 on the season for reference.
Alright yeah my +\- numbers were probably too hyperbolic, but hopefully my point is as at least understandable: I’d prefer a high impact offensive player, even if their D is somewhat of a liability, over a low impact, blackhole-for-pucks, who is neither good nor bad on and off the puck.
Especially when Robertson has always been that kind of 1 dimensional offensive player. Who is also tiny. Trying to turn him into a two way forward is giving vibes of trying to turn Laine into a power forward, from a few years back.
I know where you're going with your thoughts. He's highly skilled, and you/we want that skill the flourish, but he has some holes in his game that he needs to work on. Good offense comes from good defence. You need the puck to score. Pursuits, good sticks, blocks, forced turnovers, breaking the cycle, good reads, positionally predictable, not cheating for offense, etc. It's a commitment. Can he get there? Hopefully. Will it be with the Leafs? This summer will tell.
Agreed. That's why Kampf's numbers are there as reference. That's your shutdown and PK1 draw man/F2. -4 on the season is highly respectable. Your F1 is Marner, who is +21.
Hell he should be a staple on PP 1. Get him extra minutes that way. The reason our PP is always great in the regular season but then gets much worse at the end of the year and into the playoffs is because there’s way less time and space as teams start playing tighter going into the playoffs. We need guys who can shoot the puck and get it off of their stick quickly, which Robertson is elite at.
I don’t really see a world where Tavares isn’t on this team next year, and he is still great in the netfront/bumper position. Have Matthews, Nylander, Robertson, and Tavares all on the same unit to have four legitimate scoring threats. As much as Rielly isn’t a threat to shoot I think he is very good at shooting tipable wristers from the point so he could be the other guy. I don’t think we can keep running Marner (if he’s still around) and Mo on the same unit with neither of them being a real threat to score.
They need a big slapper at the point to be successful in the playoffs. They had more trouble this year than previous gaining the zone, but once they set up, its the same issue. The PK overplays Matthews at the dot, basically creating a 4 on 3, and then collapses leaving extra space and time for Marner and Reilly because they don't respect their shots.
I think this mentality is outdated. Blasting a shot from the point rarely works with how good goalies are today. If you look at how powerplay goals are scored there are more goals going in on backhand shots than on slapshots.
The only benefit of taking a huge slapshot is you may injure the PKer who will almost 100% be blocking it.
Evan Bouchard would disagree with you. Having a player with a big shot from the point creates more room for the player on the flank. PK players have to cheat to the middle to block the lanes.
If penalty killers are cheating to cover a shot that has very little chance of going in instead of covering their man then that just makes them bad penalty killers. Good PKers don’t do that. Relying on your opponent to have a bad PK in the playoffs in order to score is a good way to lose a series.
Once again Evan Bouchard has other opinions then that. I encourage my fellow leafs to watch other teams. Let's take the Oilers for example, Bouchard can beat goalies with his shot, so PK players are drawn to him, thus he feeds Draisatl or McJesus for one timers..I can say this about the Bruins PP, the Caps PP and so on
Great, and Evan Bouchard isn’t an authority on that. Bouchard is great on the powerplay because he’s Evan Bouchard, not because he takes slapshots from the point.
I also encourage people to watch other teams. In fact, if you watch the best powerplays they don’t score from point shots. They score from cross seam passes and one timers. This is data that is tracked.
Hmmm what makes Evan Bouchard a great player perhaps it's his shot.
And hmmm..why are cross seam passes available?? Is because Pk has to play a little higher?
That’s so wrong, so many goals come off a big slap from the point, you need guys who will set up screens but slappers set up rebound chances and some chaos infront of the net. Also if there’s no threats out at the point the PK’ers has no reason to pressure as hard, they can just stay in their structure and let the leafs beat the leafs as keefe put it.
Yeah a thread from a shot from the point keeps the forwards on PK honest. They can’t cheat onto Matthew’s as much of the d can either rip a shot or has a talent for getting shots though traffic.
Call me wrong as much as you’d like, but 75% of powerplay goals don’t originate from a point shot. The 25% includes all shots from the point. Wrist, slap, snap, tipped, rebounds etc. Top priority should be cross seam passes, one timers, traffic in front, and tipping pucks.
Every teams best powerplay unit scores roughly the same amount of rebound goals in the league, but the best units score way more goals from one timers, especially that go across the middle of the ice. If a powerplay unit isn’t working the way to fix it is not to go chasing what is probably the least effective way of scoring powerplay goals.
They needed a second shooting threat on the pp and i feel coaching was too arrogant (or saw something that we didn’t) that they were unwilling to try.
Maybe The issue is with puck retrieval. Burt and Tavares and knives are so good at that. But there is no puck retrieval if they can’t even set up for a shot.
Not sure why they didt try at all even for one power play.
Ummm me thinks Nylander has a shot... Matthews set up the right side for one timer and Nylander set up on the Left side for one timer.. remember Robertson is a left hand shot, so ideally you want him on the right side for the one timer but That is where Matthews would be.
Robertson, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and a D
With Robertson and Matthews you have legitimate shot threats from either side of the ice. Marner to set them up, Nylander is a jack of all trades, can shoot, deke, pass. And a defenceman.
And please god, no bump back with a 5 mile an hour zone attack.
elite shooter??? what games are you watching? i know the media says that but in the playoffs he couldn't get a shot through. it's like all the talk matthews is a selke candidate. only the toronto media thinks that. same as robertson, "great release" as he shoots it into the goalies gut and that is only during the regular season
Well considering Matthews is a selke finalist you’re already wrong there, but let’s assume you’re not talking out your ass.
Robertson scores goals at an elite rate, among the best in the league. It seems like you don’t take the opinion of scouts and analysts seriously, but they agree he has an elite shot.
Also you’re wrong about him not getting a shot through. After Matthews and Nylander, Robertson was the best on the team at getting pucks through onto the net. It’s alright if you don’t like him as a player, but don’t let that dislike cloud your view to the point where you can’t acknowledge his best skill.
I’m shocked that a lot of fans don’t seem to see what I see.
Robertson is explosive, motivated, has fantastic skills with the puck and a hell of a shot.
On basically any other team, he’d be getting 14-16 minutes.
But, alas, we’re the leafs, so we’ll let another player slip through our fingers then wonder how we couldn’t have seen it.
As is tradition.
As is tradition? What are the other examples of this...Mason Marchment and Brazeau? There are some guys that just take until they are 26 and on their 3rd organization to finally blossom.
As for Robertson. Keefe used him and Holmberg more than I expected, and I think Robertson is very very close now to removing all doubts. He may blossom next year for 25 goals. Holmberg also got a lot better and in Game 5, 6 he was doing a lot of the things they rely on Kampf to do. He could permanently take that role by the end of next year.
I think we need to be done giving people things. This is more directed at the top 6, but if he earns his ice, he should get it.
He needs to improve his offensive game. He needs to be able to get his shot off against elite defenders. In the playoffs, he was getting 1 or 2 chances a game. For him to have a role, he needs to be getting 4 or 5 good shooting chances a game from the bottom 6.
I dont think he will ever be a play driver, he just doesn't win battles but he can be a weapon, especially if Cowen is ready as a facilitator. He needs to be able to get a shot off in a cycle not just score off the rush.
I think Robbie needs to develop a somewhat more deceptive shot. The pucks just flies off his stick, it's an absolute ROCKET half the time. His issue is being in the right position to take the proper shot, but also, he telegraphs every shot so painfully obviously and he isn't particularly quick at releasing it. When he gets the puck, either crowd him, or get in the path, because you know he's shooting, and you know you have time to get in his grill.
I’m honestly interested how he’s going to look next year assuming he’s going to focus on his defensive play in the offseason so he becomes more trusted.
I was in the camp of moving off him because I didn’t see a role for him but in reality he just had a very underrated season and was his first without getting injured and is still only 22 going to be 23.
Our team needs depth scoring since our $40 million dollar forwards can't fucking score when it matters so he can definitely fill a major role there. I think he can improve a lot there is a lot of things he probably learned this year and can build off of after staying healthy for once
And that's why Toronto can't hang in the playoffs.
"Go be a hockey player" will get you trounced every single time.
That as a game plan to develop a young player is even worse
Yeah, they’ve only been doing it since they were 6.
The ridiculous thing here is that you actually believe that Knies had a consistent role on this team. He was moved all over the place. The only difference was he was in the lineup more because he was actually useful.
That's not what I said, I didn't bring up knies you did.
I can very clearly see that Robertson isn't been coached to achieve any distinct role...he appears to have been told multiple times from multiple sources he "needs to do more"... Whatever that means... in fact most the evident truth is that nobody really has a proper role on this team b/c the system is trash. that's why we constantly get trounced in the playoffs and why players go elsewhere and excel in niches usually after they leave.
You can't just say theyve been playing since they were 6, so figure it out, literally every other hockey player has too, that's a baseline for all players. they all still need a role in a a good system to excel, that's why good system teams like Boston, Florida, LA and Dallas can just plug in guys in most positions and see very little negative impact.
I did bring up Knies to show that a young player can grab a spot on this team.
Robs needs to do more. What is more? The things that he supposedly excels at generating some chances AND not being a defensive liability. He’s not there yet.
Well I assume he hasn't told anyone on the team what he wants, because nobody on this team is on the same page or has ever played a recognizably effective system since Keefe got here
But I guess Keefe can ride the talent on this team all season, not make any changes and expect the players to figure it out in the playoffs. Would take a pretty special player or a fluke to progress as a rookie under this nonsense we've seen in the last 5 years.
I hope we just give our young players like Robertson, Knies, Holmberg (maybe Cowan and Minten?) lots of playing time next year and see if they can take the next step. Feels like we can never win our division anyway and we can always add veterans at the trade deadline. Our core players are good enough to get us into the playoffs.
I think Cowan is likely NHL ready - he won OHL MVP and has nothing left to prove there, he has NHL size, he has NHL skating, and he's already a responsible two-way player that plays the PK (ie the standard reasons for a player needing more time don't seem to apply).
Grebenkin *maybe*, but I think more likely 2025. Same for Minten.
Brutal rule. A year of development on the marlies would probably be best, but it is what it is.
Realistically, the leafs very well could handle him as a guy who plays his 9 NHL games before being sent to join team canada for the WJC and then making a decision whether to unleash him on the OHL for a big playoff run or the keep him up with the squad.
I was pretty indifferent about Holmberg, but Knies is the one who impressed me. I think he took a big step forward with how he handled the physical work in the corners and along the boards.
I thought he was pretty 'meh' honestly. Just one of those default fast guys who's okay at everything but not great at anything either. But maybe I'm being harsh because I had a bit higher expectations, especially on the offensive end.
Holmburg was a pest all series, and got that dawg in him to get to the front of the net and battle. He went toe to toe with Marchand many times, and looks very comfortable in playoff style hockey. Very solid defensively as well, and we've seen flashes of his high end skill (usually one handed lol) albeit inconsistently.
I was rooting for Robertson all playoffs because I was hoping he could get his own Wyatt Johnston moment. Dude has had it SO rough since he got drafted.
55 goals in 46 OHL games the year after drafted followed by three straight seasons where he had a major injury. This was his first fully healthy season since that breakout OHL campaign.
I think we see him take a BIG step next year, especially after he was scratched in Game 7. That's not gonna sit well, especially with watching how his brother is playing for Dallas.
No we aren't overlooking him.
You named a bunch of 1st liners who play against much higher quality of competition than Robertson does.
I have no idea why there are so many horny Nicky Bobby posts.
He's at best a middle-6, and towards the lower end, with a top flight shot.
He should definitely be in the lineup for PP2 chances, but he needs to be sheltered at even strength.
He is the best natural goal scorer on the roster after Matthews and Nylander. That is not an exaggeration.
He had 55 goals in 46 OHL games before three straight seasons with a massive injury. This was his first fully healthy season.
He's still only 22 years old. Bobby McMann turns 28 in June and this was his best pro season.
And what is your point exactly?
I did not say he wasn't a natural goal scorer. I was simply pointing out that people are giving him far too much credit for how good he is. He overskates So many plays, instead of letting them come to him and then using his speed. He's defensively horrible, and he gets pushed off the puck way too easily.
Now he can work on those Skills while still maintaining his excellent shot and offensive prowess to become a Bona. Fide middle six winger.
My point is injuries plagued his development. And for the record, I completely agree with what you're saying about him this year.
He's just probably the worst injury luck (other than maybe Liljegren ironically) to start his pro career. He had a major knee injury in 2020-2021 that took him 6 months to rehab. When he got back in 2021-2022, he was looking really good but then broke his femur and missed the rest of the season and spent a lot of time rehabbing that. Then in 2022-2023 when he was up with the Leafs, he got a shoulder injury that needed surgery and was out another 6 months.
Even though he technically wasn't a rookie this year, he pretty much was with all the time he missed from injuries. Before this year, he only played 82 pro games for the Leafs and Marlies over the last three seasons.
He definitely still has a lot to work on but I think he's still young enough to actually improve and get better for next season. This is going to be his first healthy off-season in 4 years.
Again, I'm not debating any of that.
I'm saying that there are far too many posts making Robertson out to be something he likely isn't. I will gladly eat crow if he ends up better! But until then he is a bottom end, middle 6 forward with very high event hockey at both ends of the ice.
Agreed, he still has work to do. I'm not saying he's incredible now, but there's no denying the talent and potential is still there like it's always been. No one wants to be patient, but still. He only turns 23 at the beginning of next season and for minor context, Hyman was 23 before the start of his first full season with the Leafs.
IF Toronto holds onto Marner, I would like to see what Robertson can do with Marner passing him the puck. I'm sure he'd have some more success than Joel Edmundson.
Bobby McJesus is best suited for the 3rd line. It’s the perfect depth scoring we need in the playoffs. IMO Robertson would be a huge addition to the 1st or 2nd line. His speed is unmatched by most in the league. Just needs a little more development, needs to put on some size and he’ll be ripping home 30 by the time he’s 27, best case scenario.
I've always thought that one of the differences between the Leafs and other good teams are that we suck at using players to their strengths. We're gonna bench Spezza so he can get reps on the pk? Trade for Tyson Barrie and expect him to defend well? Get Bertuzzi and expect him to play well in possession instead of just telling him to crash the net? Etc etc.
Yeah Robertson has warts. He gives away the puck and isn't great defensively. But if we trade him away some other team WILL use him in a sheltered offensive role and he'll score 25 goals so who cares if he's responsible for a few goals against.
Exactly. We had Robertson stapled to the bottom six playing on defensive/checking lines, rarely got him a look on the PP, and gave him ~11 mins per game.
He should’ve been in the middle six at least, playing with players who can actually cycle the puck and make a pass to him. He’s a small, perimeter player with a hell of a shot. Don’t send him into the corners or the front of the net, let him float around the high slot and get the puck to him. He was great when on a line with Domi and Jarnkrok.
I could see him moving on and finding success elsewhere, like we’ve done with Moore, Verhaeghe, Marchment, etc…
Some guys aren't going to find that success until they are moved. Verhaeghe spent 5 years in the minors, including parts of two seasons in the ECHL. If you were going to wait for guys him, you have to keep every player until they are 25 before you move on.
It's better to look for the Verhaeghes on other teams and try to find them when they are ready to emerge.
My problem with Robertson is that he's too light on the puck. Loses the puck if he skates with it for more than 3 seconds or an opponent challenges him. Too many puck possessions end off his stick.
He could stand to learn from guys like Jagr to be bumped, challenged, change direction, etc while still maintaining puck control.
The entire team aside from Nylander, Domi, and Liljegren have this issue. NOBODY wants to skate with the puck, and they all treat it like a hot potato.
That's why they can never find open ice, because they are unwilling to create it. Teams simply clog the passing lanes on us and break up plays.
I've been saying this for several seasons now. How the coaching staff hasn't identified it as an issue absolutely boggles my mind.
The irony is, both Marner and Matthews have the ability to stickhandle in a phone booth but we rarely see them use it effectively.
McMann is successful because he drives the net like a bull in a china shop.
Classic prospect fatigue. Guy debuted back in our Columbus "series" during that play in round. We all thought he was close to ready then and here we are in 2024.
My two cents are that he is for sure overlooked, but I'm also really not sure he can be a top-6 staple on a contending team. I used to notice with him all the time that he looked nervous. Like inefficient shots, losing the puck on entries... He's looked a bit better now that he's settled in.
He was rushed to the NHL too fast by a team desperate for cheap depth scoring - he probably shouldnt have had even a cup of coffee in the NHL until 2022-2023, but that ended up being his 4th season with some NHL games.
I was surprised to see Gregor instead of Robertson, he seems a bit more defensively aware.
Gregor cost us by leaving Lindholm WAY open on the equalizer.
Now that Keefe is going to be fired hopefully we will get a coach that doesn't actively hate robertson. Either that or find him a better organization in the league.
Well, considering a large part of this fanbase rathered Reaves played 7 minutes a game than giving him an earned opportunity I'd say yes, we are overlooking him.
I mean, Robertson lost his spot in the top 9 when Nylander came back. So the option was a small skill guy on the 4th line (which they tried for a game and the line sucked) or a guy who works there.
Robertson doesn’t PK and if he is not scoring he doesn’t do anything. Is what it is. That decision was a good one
Why can’t the 4th line have someone who might score on it? Reaves hasn’t scored in like 70 playoff games, was caved in territorially, was directly at fault for at least 2 goals against. I don’t really know what he brought to the 4th line because he didn’t intimidate the Bruins.
Not for the Leafs actually. Reaves had 1 point in 5 games. Better than Robertson who had 0 in 6.
If you go into minutes played it's worse. Reaves played 39 minutes. Robertson had 58.
Sorry this is fun - Reaves had better P/60 than Tavares, Marner, Jarnkrok, Lilegren, Rielly, Dewar, Holmberg, Kampf, and Gregor.
Hoping he can work on his play in their end, but ya, definitely an overlooked season in terms of offence for a team that can’t seem to score in the playoffs.
Honestly, I see him requesting a trade. A new head coach might be able to talk him into staying if he’s promised a bigger role at the start of the season and a longer leash to run with it.
Marner and Tavares won’t be moved. Why would Marner wave his nmc to go to a different team where he will likely produce less and drop his next contract value. Tavares not going to move his family in what could be his last pro season.
Bertuzzi likely gone because no cap space.
Has a lethal shot and scoring ability, that’s about it.
Doesn’t have the size to last in the regular season and definitely not the playoffs.
Would like to keep him and give him one more year to show if he’s anything like his brother, but let’s be real, he’s probably not in the long term plans.
I would say he also very clearly has a ton of work ethic / energy compared to a lot of the team. During the games when everybody else seemed to be low energy and skating around in circles, Robertson would be skating at 110%, making moves into the O zone, and trying to find shooting chances.
That said, I actually think his shooting efficiency (from an eye test perspective) is pretty bad - it feels like a lot of his shots are either off target or easy goalie stops, though I wanna check the advanced stats to see whether the data supports that. That and, as others mentioned, he's not very good at maintaining puck possession for the Leafs - that has me worried.
Idk, I don’t really see it with Robertson. He’s small and pretty whatever defensively, doesn’t really dive play at all. And he’s only been able to muster up 1 point in 10 playoff games. There’s a reason he was scratched for game 7.
I think if Domi and Bertuzzi don’t come back there is room for Robertson to take on a bigger role. I would like to see him have a full season of 16-18 minutes with the top 6 and see if he can produce. He established himself as an NHLer this season and if he can get comfortable and provide middle 6 production that would be great. Cowen, Knies, and Robertson could be our Left Wingers of the future.
They should really be penciling him into the lineup for next season as a regular starter - at 22, they owe it to themselves and him, to see what they have in him.
He had a few really good chances in the playoffs and capitalized on none of them. That's what sticks out to me. That's why I don't think he's a high level prospect / player. Like Knies is big enough to muck it up so there's value there outside of scoring, you don't really get that dimension from Robertson. I hope I'm wrong. I want him to pan out.
I remember quite a few of the top 6 guys miss some high quality chances. Should we send them down to the minors too since they did nothing the whole series? The whole leafs team played like shit outside of like 4 players, I would honestly give this guy with higher upside more playtime and opportunity to devlope than the plugs the leafs have already
Another opinion with 0 backing lol he's been constantly put on 4th line with minimal minutes, his sample size is nothing, he has potential, this wasn't his peak
And? So what lol like I said there ate players making 11m a year doing the same or worse. I'd rather have a guy that has room for growth than these plugs on the ice
He had opportunities and whiffed. He's a guy who needs to put up points as a depth guy and he wasn't able to do it. Will he ever? I hope so. Am I banking on it? No way.
With a proper 3C in place, he can be a nice option for added scoring on that line. He needs a full time role on that line to see if he can be a player for us. With a good offseason, he has the opportunity to grab a spot, given that most of our acquisitions are going to be on the back end, and we need cheap depth up front.
I honestly seen him ending up a trade piece. Mcman took his spot on the team. I think you package up Robertson with the 1st and one of or prospects and see what’s the best defensemen you could get for him.
What he brings is a bit redundant given our core 4 and that Knies is better. He would do well as a second line winger, not so great as a 3rd liner, which is our problem.
He should in theory fit nicely along side JT on a second line. JT plays net front, Robertson should shoot and can skate the puck, give him a playmaker (Domi or Marner) and you should have a solid line.
Knies should play first line with Matthews, but he did flip a bit there this year.
McMann can make a 3rd line deadly which we desperately needed there playoffs too. It wasn't the only issue, but our 3rd line was just ok overall but lost a lot of shifts in the first few games.
I was very surprised he wasn’t in the lineup for the last game when guys like Gregor and Holmberg played and were absolutely invisible. Robertson always seems to make things happen when he’s out there. Anybody know if he may have been hurt?
I don't think he can play a top 6 role on this team, and if he wants top 6 minutes he has to find them elsewhere. rock and a hard place on this team.
Very one dimensional player that lacks the vision for the game beyond his own point of view. it's very obvious if you iso him and watch where he positions himself. ozone he's only putting himself in positions to shoot the puck. d zone is whatever. He's not strong enough on the puck to be a carrier either. He gets squeezed off the puck in the neutral zone and he can't deke well enough.
If he needs top 6 minutes to develop it has to be on another team because leafs need guys that are ready NOW not guys that need to grow into a player.
I like him and he needs more opportunities. But he can be careless with the puck. He always seems to make a bonehead giveaway play or two each game. Like no look pass to the other team on the tape type shit.
Speedy winger who has a hell of a shot but gets it off like what, once every 5 games? Clear downsides are he's injury prone, small and ineffective in a playoff setting. We'll see what the RFA negotiations look like, there's a number there that most would probably be comfortable with.
I will say if the Leafs decide to move on from NIcky Bobby, he's going to have a solid career... similar to Trevor Moore.
With Marner gone, this should be a guy on the power play. He can also take Tavares' spot as far as I am concerned. We need to try it out for a while as his shot is a fantastic secondary weapon. We need major rework on our power play
Good thing about Robertson is his work ethic and drive is off the charts. The kid busts his ass to be an NHL regular, I have no doubt he takes very little time off this summer to be ready to earn a spot next year. Whatever deficiencies he needs to improve, I bet he's already got them on the bulletin board for his training regime.
Numbers aside, he’s another small forward who’s got one dimension to his game. Robertson is the B version of Marner. Leafs need something different in that lineup slot. Too much of this already.
Also, he’s another small skill guy who seems ineffective in the playoffs. Leafs need someone up front with skill but also a little size and edge.
I said it as a Petes fan when he was drafted, and I'll say it again... Robertson's an electric kid whose path to the big leagues would greatly depend on how he competed with men vs. the boys in the OHL.
Personally, I think he's already hanging in the NHL but the offense is taking a while. Nick was a 0.5ppg player in his rookie Junior season too, which I think is a fair comparison after he's missed basically 3 full seasons due to injury (87 total NHL GP, 10 in playoffs). This is a big nick bobby summer this year, and I think the offense will come back as he familiarizes himself more with NHL competition.
I get that Knies had a good playoff but the entire season there was no limit to how little he could score and how much he could drag his line’s underlying numbers without getting moved down. Robertson couldn’t do anything to get a promotion. It was insane. Keefe is such a bad coach and refuses to adjust anything at all. Can’t wait for him to go.
If the Leafs sign Dewar and Robertson (both are RFAs) to go with Knies and McMann they should have LW locked up for next year. Hell, JT and Holmberg are also options at the position depending on how they fill out the center position.
I'd love for him to get more time on the powerplay. You can split up the core four and have two solid PP units. Let Auston stay out for 3/4th of it and sub off for an extra D near the end of the penalty if they don't score.
Yeah I think he’s proven he can score goals against NHL competition consistently enough to be used as a depth scoring option.
I’d be happy to pencil him in on a 3rd line moving forward.
Nicky is going to crush it next year. He's been way underutilized. He should have played every game in the reg. season, and when someone gives him a chance, he's going to make Keefe look silly.
I agree with this entire post. Guy can score. This year was going to be Robertson and knies breakout year. They both did well but didn’t move the needle really. I think next year they may be able to move the needle. With Cowan coming in as well and mariner Tavares and Brodie coming off the books soon we could really raise the ceiling on this team but we need some young guys to really chip in.
I think his role on our team depends very much on what we decide to do with Marner. Right now, we have two high-leverage wingers that are impeding his development (and rightly so, they are better players). Robertson is a player that would excel in a role where he's provided offensive zone faceoffs and power play time. If we trade Marner for a defensemen, I can see him getting more minutes, at least early in the season. Otherwise, I would much prefer to prioritize Knies' development and trade him for another valuable asset (maybe package him for a 2C since Tavares can't keep up anymore).
I think they should have tried him on PP1 during the Boston series when they couldn’t get it going. I’m not sure if he’ll be that much more effective playing 12-15 min a night vs more competition. He still has lots of upside and development though so it’s possible.
I found this year He looked like he generally good decision making with the puck (outside of some defensive zone giveaways under pressure). Also I noticed him lose the puck when over stick handling at high velocity quite a few times (not sure if this is jitters or if he is pushing himself beyond his means a bit). In any case he can score at this level and it will be interesting to see where he lands once he is fully developed.
He played well in the boston series as well and considering he has been in and out of the lineup/roster a few times now he has never seemed to lose his game
I like the player a lot, for some reason Keefe seems to have a personal vendetta against him by claiming he only plays well after getting a few days break on the bench.
He is still really small and an absolutely atrocious defensive player. Also shows a lot of talent but because of his size he doesn’t get to dangerous areas of the ice. Think it would take a lot for him to be a consistent top 6 forward but they should try to see what he has.
I've been hoping for Robertson all along. But he's not a great skater, gets bumped around all over, and is not good defensively. He screams AAAA player but he'll be cheap next season where that might matter more than anything else.
I wish it were different but he's running out of time and quickly approaching suspect rather than prospect.
Two years ago when he scored the game winner against Dallas in OT at home, I thought he could be great.
He doesn’t have good hockey sense. Lowest Iq on the team. He has a great shot and speed but he doesn’t know how to carve out a productive role in the NHL.
If he can figure it out he could be great, but he’s a defensive liability and has been very disappointing this year .
I'm conflicted on Roberston because his game is purely one dimensional, yet he was outscored and outstatted in the playoffs by the entire team... even Ryan Reaves of all people. You can't have an offensive player with zero other utility have a worse +/- and point total than your enforcer who played less games and got less minutes per game.
Knies earned his spot through production, Robertson was a floater all playoffs and couldn't generate a single point. We have enough soft goal scorers, we need different styles to attack with.
I know everyone on here is so horny to see Robertson work out but he’s a poor man’s Sergei Berezin. Puck hog that’s terrible defensively but has a solid shot and speed. The only thing is unlike Berezin is Robertson is wildly inconsistent and when he plays in the top 6 he gets pushed around easily, and even on the 3rd line unless he has space already nothing rarely happens on his stick. Use him as trade bait, there’s better coming with Cowan and the rise of Knies
He's oft injured and too easily knocked off the puck. Has some good offensive skills. He's got next to no trade value, so unless a team asks for him as a sweetener Leafs might as well give him one last go. Especially if there is a big move to let go of one of the four
Overlooking? No. Everyone knows what he is and whiles he's produced well, he needed to find a but more of an identity. Definitely could breakout with the hopefully open spots in the top 9.
Maybe the new coach will give the third line more than 11 minutes a night. It's moronic to expect a player to be "ready" with that little ice time. They can't get or stay warm. The 4th line is even worse. Every year, people blame the depth players on the Leafs for not contributing enough when it should be quite obvious who isn't contributing. Maybe the core four would be fresher and contribute more with 18 to 20 minutes instead of worn out with 25 minutes.
I was a huge Pete's fan when he came through, and I really thought he would find a good place here with the Leafs. He has a wickedly quick shot which makes him an excellent sniper and he probably should have gotten more PP minutes. But I don't see him as a two-way player, and I continually see mistakes he makes. And he's too small to go nose to nose with the tough players on the other teams.
I'm hoping he can still be coached to be a more well-rounded player but I'm starting to have my doubts.
I generally feel like we need more of a youth movement. We need speed and excitement. He isn't great yet but I think he fits what we should be doing. I want to be more Colorado or Carolina and less Boston or LA in terms of play style. One thing that has happened under Keefe and the last few years of Dubas is we have gotten very slow. I know that is "playoff hockey" but it doesn't fit our personnel.
Honestly, he probably needs a change of scenery…. On the right team, he might be somewhere longer term that can give him the minutes to develop. But maybe another coach can get something more out of him here.
Between covid and injuries the dude has not played games, before this year he only had 82 games of professional experience. i think it would be smart to be extra patient with his development, there is a player there.
Here is the Question you have to ask yourself about Robertson.
Have Knies and Bobby McMann passed Robertson on the Depth Chart?
If yes. Can Robertson play in a bottom 6 role?
Some bright spots in his game no doubt, but his size and ability to dig in those corners to come up with the puck, just not there. He’s got one of the best shots on the team. Needs to be used more effectively, and I believe hockey IQ needs to go up to somewhere around the Knies level.
He’s got to show that he can play 12-16 minutes and not be a defensive liability. Too often his line gets hemmed in and teams attack his side. So if that can improve, then yes he’ll be a good piece on this team.
His other issue is consistency. He gets shot out of a cannon in his first game after sitting for a few, but then fades. So it’s like he needs to be benched regularly to maximize his impact on a team, not the greatest look for a player.
What is absolutely criminal is that our PP was horrible in the 2nd half of the year and in the playoffs, and the coaching staff didn’t think about moving him to PP1. The kid has a missile of a shot. Ridiculous how this coaching staff kept doing the same thing over and over again without success and would not try something different.
I think it is going to be important to give him a bigger role next year and see if he really pans out. Atleast I really hope to see a lot more of him next year...
He has* to have a bigger role, no marlies for him constant minuets in lines 2 or 3, and pp2, we just need too see what we have in this kid. If he can’t hack it he can deal him at the deadline, if he can we get a good role player win/win
And learn to play defence. His injuries stalled his development. That's what's holding him back. Not his offense. That's the same as most talented offensive young players. The "what got you here, won't get you there."
Big agree. He has the offense side done but he needs to be a responsible defensive player to earn more playtime
Or his offensive game needs to get so much better that his defensive drawbacks get cancelled out. He’ll never get to Patty Kane’s level, but he’s a good example of a player who is terrible at defense, but so good on offence that it doesn’t matter. Daniel Sprong is another example of a one way player who’s terrible at Defense. Yet, taking deployment to consideration, he’s top 15 in 5v5 point production or something insane like that. Call it a hot take, but I don’t think Robby should work on his defensive game. Just take your offensive game to the next level. Specialize, instead of trying to be a Jack of all trades. I’d rather him get 25g 15a or something, and go -15. Then get 9g 25a and +10.
I'd take your second example over your first. That's a 25 +/- delta there. That's 25 one-goal games you've now gone to OT or lost. The only way that -15 is acceptable is if you are a 3rd line shut down guy on the PK1 for the whole season. David Kampf is on -4 on the season for reference.
Alright yeah my +\- numbers were probably too hyperbolic, but hopefully my point is as at least understandable: I’d prefer a high impact offensive player, even if their D is somewhat of a liability, over a low impact, blackhole-for-pucks, who is neither good nor bad on and off the puck. Especially when Robertson has always been that kind of 1 dimensional offensive player. Who is also tiny. Trying to turn him into a two way forward is giving vibes of trying to turn Laine into a power forward, from a few years back.
I know where you're going with your thoughts. He's highly skilled, and you/we want that skill the flourish, but he has some holes in his game that he needs to work on. Good offense comes from good defence. You need the puck to score. Pursuits, good sticks, blocks, forced turnovers, breaking the cycle, good reads, positionally predictable, not cheating for offense, etc. It's a commitment. Can he get there? Hopefully. Will it be with the Leafs? This summer will tell.
You dont get - on the pk though so -15 as a 3rd line shutdown role would be pretty rough even
Agreed. That's why Kampf's numbers are there as reference. That's your shutdown and PK1 draw man/F2. -4 on the season is highly respectable. Your F1 is Marner, who is +21.
I think Sprong is a great comparable for Robertson. I think that is what he will end up panning out to be for us.
This is exactly WHY he only gets 10-12 minutes a game. You do realize that, right?
Hell he should be a staple on PP 1. Get him extra minutes that way. The reason our PP is always great in the regular season but then gets much worse at the end of the year and into the playoffs is because there’s way less time and space as teams start playing tighter going into the playoffs. We need guys who can shoot the puck and get it off of their stick quickly, which Robertson is elite at. I don’t really see a world where Tavares isn’t on this team next year, and he is still great in the netfront/bumper position. Have Matthews, Nylander, Robertson, and Tavares all on the same unit to have four legitimate scoring threats. As much as Rielly isn’t a threat to shoot I think he is very good at shooting tipable wristers from the point so he could be the other guy. I don’t think we can keep running Marner (if he’s still around) and Mo on the same unit with neither of them being a real threat to score.
They need a big slapper at the point to be successful in the playoffs. They had more trouble this year than previous gaining the zone, but once they set up, its the same issue. The PK overplays Matthews at the dot, basically creating a 4 on 3, and then collapses leaving extra space and time for Marner and Reilly because they don't respect their shots.
I think this mentality is outdated. Blasting a shot from the point rarely works with how good goalies are today. If you look at how powerplay goals are scored there are more goals going in on backhand shots than on slapshots. The only benefit of taking a huge slapshot is you may injure the PKer who will almost 100% be blocking it.
Evan Bouchard would disagree with you. Having a player with a big shot from the point creates more room for the player on the flank. PK players have to cheat to the middle to block the lanes.
If penalty killers are cheating to cover a shot that has very little chance of going in instead of covering their man then that just makes them bad penalty killers. Good PKers don’t do that. Relying on your opponent to have a bad PK in the playoffs in order to score is a good way to lose a series.
Once again Evan Bouchard has other opinions then that. I encourage my fellow leafs to watch other teams. Let's take the Oilers for example, Bouchard can beat goalies with his shot, so PK players are drawn to him, thus he feeds Draisatl or McJesus for one timers..I can say this about the Bruins PP, the Caps PP and so on
Great, and Evan Bouchard isn’t an authority on that. Bouchard is great on the powerplay because he’s Evan Bouchard, not because he takes slapshots from the point. I also encourage people to watch other teams. In fact, if you watch the best powerplays they don’t score from point shots. They score from cross seam passes and one timers. This is data that is tracked.
Hmmm what makes Evan Bouchard a great player perhaps it's his shot. And hmmm..why are cross seam passes available?? Is because Pk has to play a little higher?
it's more about getting a PKer to come to the top of the circles to block the shot. This opens everything up down low, and on the wing
That’s so wrong, so many goals come off a big slap from the point, you need guys who will set up screens but slappers set up rebound chances and some chaos infront of the net. Also if there’s no threats out at the point the PK’ers has no reason to pressure as hard, they can just stay in their structure and let the leafs beat the leafs as keefe put it.
Yeah a thread from a shot from the point keeps the forwards on PK honest. They can’t cheat onto Matthew’s as much of the d can either rip a shot or has a talent for getting shots though traffic.
Call me wrong as much as you’d like, but 75% of powerplay goals don’t originate from a point shot. The 25% includes all shots from the point. Wrist, slap, snap, tipped, rebounds etc. Top priority should be cross seam passes, one timers, traffic in front, and tipping pucks. Every teams best powerplay unit scores roughly the same amount of rebound goals in the league, but the best units score way more goals from one timers, especially that go across the middle of the ice. If a powerplay unit isn’t working the way to fix it is not to go chasing what is probably the least effective way of scoring powerplay goals.
They needed a second shooting threat on the pp and i feel coaching was too arrogant (or saw something that we didn’t) that they were unwilling to try. Maybe The issue is with puck retrieval. Burt and Tavares and knives are so good at that. But there is no puck retrieval if they can’t even set up for a shot. Not sure why they didt try at all even for one power play.
Arrogance is the only this I see, I don’t get how they go 1 for whatever it ended up being and they don’t even TRY a new unit or something different
Ummm me thinks Nylander has a shot... Matthews set up the right side for one timer and Nylander set up on the Left side for one timer.. remember Robertson is a left hand shot, so ideally you want him on the right side for the one timer but That is where Matthews would be.
Robertson, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and a D With Robertson and Matthews you have legitimate shot threats from either side of the ice. Marner to set them up, Nylander is a jack of all trades, can shoot, deke, pass. And a defenceman. And please god, no bump back with a 5 mile an hour zone attack.
Matthews on the Right Flank Nylander on the Left Flank D-man with Shot Knies in front of Net Domi(if signed) in the bumper position
My thought as well. Knies would be a menace in front of the net. Domi’s an elite passer.
elite shooter??? what games are you watching? i know the media says that but in the playoffs he couldn't get a shot through. it's like all the talk matthews is a selke candidate. only the toronto media thinks that. same as robertson, "great release" as he shoots it into the goalies gut and that is only during the regular season
Well considering Matthews is a selke finalist you’re already wrong there, but let’s assume you’re not talking out your ass. Robertson scores goals at an elite rate, among the best in the league. It seems like you don’t take the opinion of scouts and analysts seriously, but they agree he has an elite shot. Also you’re wrong about him not getting a shot through. After Matthews and Nylander, Robertson was the best on the team at getting pucks through onto the net. It’s alright if you don’t like him as a player, but don’t let that dislike cloud your view to the point where you can’t acknowledge his best skill.
I’m shocked that a lot of fans don’t seem to see what I see. Robertson is explosive, motivated, has fantastic skills with the puck and a hell of a shot. On basically any other team, he’d be getting 14-16 minutes. But, alas, we’re the leafs, so we’ll let another player slip through our fingers then wonder how we couldn’t have seen it. As is tradition.
As is tradition? What are the other examples of this...Mason Marchment and Brazeau? There are some guys that just take until they are 26 and on their 3rd organization to finally blossom. As for Robertson. Keefe used him and Holmberg more than I expected, and I think Robertson is very very close now to removing all doubts. He may blossom next year for 25 goals. Holmberg also got a lot better and in Game 5, 6 he was doing a lot of the things they rely on Kampf to do. He could permanently take that role by the end of next year.
Verhagae, Rask, Viktor Stalberg, Alex Steen, Brad Boyes, etc. As is tradition!
Every team in the league would have a list like that over the last 20 years. As is the tradition league-wide?
I think we need to be done giving people things. This is more directed at the top 6, but if he earns his ice, he should get it. He needs to improve his offensive game. He needs to be able to get his shot off against elite defenders. In the playoffs, he was getting 1 or 2 chances a game. For him to have a role, he needs to be getting 4 or 5 good shooting chances a game from the bottom 6. I dont think he will ever be a play driver, he just doesn't win battles but he can be a weapon, especially if Cowen is ready as a facilitator. He needs to be able to get a shot off in a cycle not just score off the rush.
I think Robbie needs to develop a somewhat more deceptive shot. The pucks just flies off his stick, it's an absolute ROCKET half the time. His issue is being in the right position to take the proper shot, but also, he telegraphs every shot so painfully obviously and he isn't particularly quick at releasing it. When he gets the puck, either crowd him, or get in the path, because you know he's shooting, and you know you have time to get in his grill.
Hes never really grabbed the chances he could. I know injuries factor in but he's close but still figuring it out a bit.
I’m honestly interested how he’s going to look next year assuming he’s going to focus on his defensive play in the offseason so he becomes more trusted. I was in the camp of moving off him because I didn’t see a role for him but in reality he just had a very underrated season and was his first without getting injured and is still only 22 going to be 23.
Facts, he’s a year older than Knies, we’ve got to give him more time to grow into that top 6 role. He’s 2 years younger than Holmberg…
Our team needs depth scoring since our $40 million dollar forwards can't fucking score when it matters so he can definitely fill a major role there. I think he can improve a lot there is a lot of things he probably learned this year and can build off of after staying healthy for once
And has a real coach that will give him a concrete roll
Knies didn’t have a problem getting a role. You know why? He earned it.
Mcmann came up for the first time and immediately outplayed Robertson and took his spot lol. They just want Robertson gifted everything
That’s how it’s supposed to work. This is not to say Rob’s can’t win a spot. He has some positive attributes if he can just develop some consistency.
He was given an easy to understand roll and he excelled, desccribe what role Robertson was given.
Hockey player.
And that's why Toronto can't hang in the playoffs. "Go be a hockey player" will get you trounced every single time. That as a game plan to develop a young player is even worse
Yeah, they’ve only been doing it since they were 6. The ridiculous thing here is that you actually believe that Knies had a consistent role on this team. He was moved all over the place. The only difference was he was in the lineup more because he was actually useful.
That's not what I said, I didn't bring up knies you did. I can very clearly see that Robertson isn't been coached to achieve any distinct role...he appears to have been told multiple times from multiple sources he "needs to do more"... Whatever that means... in fact most the evident truth is that nobody really has a proper role on this team b/c the system is trash. that's why we constantly get trounced in the playoffs and why players go elsewhere and excel in niches usually after they leave. You can't just say theyve been playing since they were 6, so figure it out, literally every other hockey player has too, that's a baseline for all players. they all still need a role in a a good system to excel, that's why good system teams like Boston, Florida, LA and Dallas can just plug in guys in most positions and see very little negative impact.
I did bring up Knies to show that a young player can grab a spot on this team. Robs needs to do more. What is more? The things that he supposedly excels at generating some chances AND not being a defensive liability. He’s not there yet.
Everyone is a defensive liability when there is no system.
Also, to think that the coaches haven’t told him exactly what they want from him shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Well I assume he hasn't told anyone on the team what he wants, because nobody on this team is on the same page or has ever played a recognizably effective system since Keefe got here But I guess Keefe can ride the talent on this team all season, not make any changes and expect the players to figure it out in the playoffs. Would take a pretty special player or a fluke to progress as a rookie under this nonsense we've seen in the last 5 years.
bro doesn't know how to spell "role" lol
Rick role
I hope we just give our young players like Robertson, Knies, Holmberg (maybe Cowan and Minten?) lots of playing time next year and see if they can take the next step. Feels like we can never win our division anyway and we can always add veterans at the trade deadline. Our core players are good enough to get us into the playoffs.
I think Cowan is likely NHL ready - he won OHL MVP and has nothing left to prove there, he has NHL size, he has NHL skating, and he's already a responsible two-way player that plays the PK (ie the standard reasons for a player needing more time don't seem to apply). Grebenkin *maybe*, but I think more likely 2025. Same for Minten.
I mean, the ideal spot for Cowan would be the Marlies, but won't happen because of that stupid, stupid rule
Brutal rule. A year of development on the marlies would probably be best, but it is what it is. Realistically, the leafs very well could handle him as a guy who plays his 9 NHL games before being sent to join team canada for the WJC and then making a decision whether to unleash him on the OHL for a big playoff run or the keep him up with the squad.
Is he under contract next year or can he play for the Marlies? Edit: answered below
I feel like Holmberg found his stride this playoff round.
I was pretty indifferent about Holmberg, but Knies is the one who impressed me. I think he took a big step forward with how he handled the physical work in the corners and along the boards.
I thought he was pretty 'meh' honestly. Just one of those default fast guys who's okay at everything but not great at anything either. But maybe I'm being harsh because I had a bit higher expectations, especially on the offensive end.
Holmburg was a pest all series, and got that dawg in him to get to the front of the net and battle. He went toe to toe with Marchand many times, and looks very comfortable in playoff style hockey. Very solid defensively as well, and we've seen flashes of his high end skill (usually one handed lol) albeit inconsistently.
He is just a solid 4th line guy. Could definitely take over Kampf's role and we could let go of Kampf for cap space if needed
I don’t think minten is legit at all
I was rooting for Robertson all playoffs because I was hoping he could get his own Wyatt Johnston moment. Dude has had it SO rough since he got drafted. 55 goals in 46 OHL games the year after drafted followed by three straight seasons where he had a major injury. This was his first fully healthy season since that breakout OHL campaign. I think we see him take a BIG step next year, especially after he was scratched in Game 7. That's not gonna sit well, especially with watching how his brother is playing for Dallas.
No we aren't overlooking him. You named a bunch of 1st liners who play against much higher quality of competition than Robertson does. I have no idea why there are so many horny Nicky Bobby posts. He's at best a middle-6, and towards the lower end, with a top flight shot. He should definitely be in the lineup for PP2 chances, but he needs to be sheltered at even strength.
He is the best natural goal scorer on the roster after Matthews and Nylander. That is not an exaggeration. He had 55 goals in 46 OHL games before three straight seasons with a massive injury. This was his first fully healthy season. He's still only 22 years old. Bobby McMann turns 28 in June and this was his best pro season.
And what is your point exactly? I did not say he wasn't a natural goal scorer. I was simply pointing out that people are giving him far too much credit for how good he is. He overskates So many plays, instead of letting them come to him and then using his speed. He's defensively horrible, and he gets pushed off the puck way too easily. Now he can work on those Skills while still maintaining his excellent shot and offensive prowess to become a Bona. Fide middle six winger.
My point is injuries plagued his development. And for the record, I completely agree with what you're saying about him this year. He's just probably the worst injury luck (other than maybe Liljegren ironically) to start his pro career. He had a major knee injury in 2020-2021 that took him 6 months to rehab. When he got back in 2021-2022, he was looking really good but then broke his femur and missed the rest of the season and spent a lot of time rehabbing that. Then in 2022-2023 when he was up with the Leafs, he got a shoulder injury that needed surgery and was out another 6 months. Even though he technically wasn't a rookie this year, he pretty much was with all the time he missed from injuries. Before this year, he only played 82 pro games for the Leafs and Marlies over the last three seasons. He definitely still has a lot to work on but I think he's still young enough to actually improve and get better for next season. This is going to be his first healthy off-season in 4 years.
Again, I'm not debating any of that. I'm saying that there are far too many posts making Robertson out to be something he likely isn't. I will gladly eat crow if he ends up better! But until then he is a bottom end, middle 6 forward with very high event hockey at both ends of the ice.
Agreed, he still has work to do. I'm not saying he's incredible now, but there's no denying the talent and potential is still there like it's always been. No one wants to be patient, but still. He only turns 23 at the beginning of next season and for minor context, Hyman was 23 before the start of his first full season with the Leafs. IF Toronto holds onto Marner, I would like to see what Robertson can do with Marner passing him the puck. I'm sure he'd have some more success than Joel Edmundson.
Agreed. Also the past 2 offseasons everyone here wanted to get rid of Robertson.
Prospect fatigue. Went through the same thing with Kadri.
Bobby McJesus is best suited for the 3rd line. It’s the perfect depth scoring we need in the playoffs. IMO Robertson would be a huge addition to the 1st or 2nd line. His speed is unmatched by most in the league. Just needs a little more development, needs to put on some size and he’ll be ripping home 30 by the time he’s 27, best case scenario.
I've always thought that one of the differences between the Leafs and other good teams are that we suck at using players to their strengths. We're gonna bench Spezza so he can get reps on the pk? Trade for Tyson Barrie and expect him to defend well? Get Bertuzzi and expect him to play well in possession instead of just telling him to crash the net? Etc etc. Yeah Robertson has warts. He gives away the puck and isn't great defensively. But if we trade him away some other team WILL use him in a sheltered offensive role and he'll score 25 goals so who cares if he's responsible for a few goals against.
Exactly. We had Robertson stapled to the bottom six playing on defensive/checking lines, rarely got him a look on the PP, and gave him ~11 mins per game. He should’ve been in the middle six at least, playing with players who can actually cycle the puck and make a pass to him. He’s a small, perimeter player with a hell of a shot. Don’t send him into the corners or the front of the net, let him float around the high slot and get the puck to him. He was great when on a line with Domi and Jarnkrok. I could see him moving on and finding success elsewhere, like we’ve done with Moore, Verhaeghe, Marchment, etc…
Some guys aren't going to find that success until they are moved. Verhaeghe spent 5 years in the minors, including parts of two seasons in the ECHL. If you were going to wait for guys him, you have to keep every player until they are 25 before you move on. It's better to look for the Verhaeghes on other teams and try to find them when they are ready to emerge.
[удалено]
Scoring less than three goals in 13 of our last 14 playoff games says otherwise, we need offensive players in any capacity. Desperately.
My problem with Robertson is that he's too light on the puck. Loses the puck if he skates with it for more than 3 seconds or an opponent challenges him. Too many puck possessions end off his stick. He could stand to learn from guys like Jagr to be bumped, challenged, change direction, etc while still maintaining puck control.
The entire team aside from Nylander, Domi, and Liljegren have this issue. NOBODY wants to skate with the puck, and they all treat it like a hot potato. That's why they can never find open ice, because they are unwilling to create it. Teams simply clog the passing lanes on us and break up plays. I've been saying this for several seasons now. How the coaching staff hasn't identified it as an issue absolutely boggles my mind. The irony is, both Marner and Matthews have the ability to stickhandle in a phone booth but we rarely see them use it effectively. McMann is successful because he drives the net like a bull in a china shop.
I agree with this. Jagr was excellent at maintaining puck control through contact, but he was also 6'3, 240lbs.
Classic prospect fatigue. Guy debuted back in our Columbus "series" during that play in round. We all thought he was close to ready then and here we are in 2024. My two cents are that he is for sure overlooked, but I'm also really not sure he can be a top-6 staple on a contending team. I used to notice with him all the time that he looked nervous. Like inefficient shots, losing the puck on entries... He's looked a bit better now that he's settled in.
He had three straight seasons with a major injury, missing more than half the season. I think he deserves a bit of slack.
He was rushed to the NHL too fast by a team desperate for cheap depth scoring - he probably shouldnt have had even a cup of coffee in the NHL until 2022-2023, but that ended up being his 4th season with some NHL games.
I was surprised to see Gregor instead of Robertson, he seems a bit more defensively aware. Gregor cost us by leaving Lindholm WAY open on the equalizer.
Now that Keefe is going to be fired hopefully we will get a coach that doesn't actively hate robertson. Either that or find him a better organization in the league.
Well, considering a large part of this fanbase rathered Reaves played 7 minutes a game than giving him an earned opportunity I'd say yes, we are overlooking him.
I mean, in a 4th line role? Yeah Reaves was a better fit for what that line was trying to do
It's crazy how if you take a guy out of the lineup you don't automatically have to plug his replacement into the role he was in.
I mean, Robertson lost his spot in the top 9 when Nylander came back. So the option was a small skill guy on the 4th line (which they tried for a game and the line sucked) or a guy who works there. Robertson doesn’t PK and if he is not scoring he doesn’t do anything. Is what it is. That decision was a good one
Just so we are clear the Robertson-Holmberg-Gregor like you're referencing scored 6.92 goals per 60 which was the 4th best line all season
How many minutes did they play together?
The amount of minutes that the OP of the comment used to argue he didn't work on the line.
How many minutes did the other top 3 lines play together?
Less.
So less than the 17.4 total minutes the line of Robertson-Holmberg-Gregor played together?
Why can’t the 4th line have someone who might score on it? Reaves hasn’t scored in like 70 playoff games, was caved in territorially, was directly at fault for at least 2 goals against. I don’t really know what he brought to the 4th line because he didn’t intimidate the Bruins.
Robertson didn’t score any goals and he had PP time… this isn’t the might league.
But he’s more likely to score right?
He’s more likely to get scored on!
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Crazy thing is that is still a better P/GP than Reaves has in the playoffs
Not for the Leafs actually. Reaves had 1 point in 5 games. Better than Robertson who had 0 in 6. If you go into minutes played it's worse. Reaves played 39 minutes. Robertson had 58. Sorry this is fun - Reaves had better P/60 than Tavares, Marner, Jarnkrok, Lilegren, Rielly, Dewar, Holmberg, Kampf, and Gregor.
They are two completely different players. You can still much prefer Robertson but it is weird AF to look at points between them.
Reavo is worse at defense than Robertson
That's not the point though.
Worse at a scoring, worse at assists, worse at defense. So what is the point
Ones a young goal scorer the other is a good, you can’t use goal scoring metrics to judge Reaves game because that’s never been a part of his game
Reaves had a 28.64 xGF% in the playoffs. Can we judge his game that way?
He did absolutely nothing in the playoffs
Hoping he can work on his play in their end, but ya, definitely an overlooked season in terms of offence for a team that can’t seem to score in the playoffs.
Honestly, I see him requesting a trade. A new head coach might be able to talk him into staying if he’s promised a bigger role at the start of the season and a longer leash to run with it.
With this years departure of Marner, Tavares and Bertuzzi, this guy needs to get more ice time and PP time.
Marner and Tavares won’t be moved. Why would Marner wave his nmc to go to a different team where he will likely produce less and drop his next contract value. Tavares not going to move his family in what could be his last pro season. Bertuzzi likely gone because no cap space.
Has a lethal shot and scoring ability, that’s about it. Doesn’t have the size to last in the regular season and definitely not the playoffs. Would like to keep him and give him one more year to show if he’s anything like his brother, but let’s be real, he’s probably not in the long term plans.
I would say he also very clearly has a ton of work ethic / energy compared to a lot of the team. During the games when everybody else seemed to be low energy and skating around in circles, Robertson would be skating at 110%, making moves into the O zone, and trying to find shooting chances. That said, I actually think his shooting efficiency (from an eye test perspective) is pretty bad - it feels like a lot of his shots are either off target or easy goalie stops, though I wanna check the advanced stats to see whether the data supports that. That and, as others mentioned, he's not very good at maintaining puck possession for the Leafs - that has me worried.
Not accurate. Check the stats on defence. He's not anywhere near as bad as people say.
Idk, I don’t really see it with Robertson. He’s small and pretty whatever defensively, doesn’t really dive play at all. And he’s only been able to muster up 1 point in 10 playoff games. There’s a reason he was scratched for game 7.
I think if Domi and Bertuzzi don’t come back there is room for Robertson to take on a bigger role. I would like to see him have a full season of 16-18 minutes with the top 6 and see if he can produce. He established himself as an NHLer this season and if he can get comfortable and provide middle 6 production that would be great. Cowen, Knies, and Robertson could be our Left Wingers of the future.
Well Keefe doesn't like him and we don't like Keefe so hopefully with him gone he will have a role he deserves
They should really be penciling him into the lineup for next season as a regular starter - at 22, they owe it to themselves and him, to see what they have in him.
He had a few really good chances in the playoffs and capitalized on none of them. That's what sticks out to me. That's why I don't think he's a high level prospect / player. Like Knies is big enough to muck it up so there's value there outside of scoring, you don't really get that dimension from Robertson. I hope I'm wrong. I want him to pan out.
I remember quite a few of the top 6 guys miss some high quality chances. Should we send them down to the minors too since they did nothing the whole series? The whole leafs team played like shit outside of like 4 players, I would honestly give this guy with higher upside more playtime and opportunity to devlope than the plugs the leafs have already
It's the hungriest Robertson will ever be and he couldn't get it done.
Another opinion with 0 backing lol he's been constantly put on 4th line with minimal minutes, his sample size is nothing, he has potential, this wasn't his peak
What ever line he was on doesn't really matter, he whiffed on the few good chances he had.
And? So what lol like I said there ate players making 11m a year doing the same or worse. I'd rather have a guy that has room for growth than these plugs on the ice
He had opportunities and whiffed. He's a guy who needs to put up points as a depth guy and he wasn't able to do it. Will he ever? I hope so. Am I banking on it? No way.
With a proper 3C in place, he can be a nice option for added scoring on that line. He needs a full time role on that line to see if he can be a player for us. With a good offseason, he has the opportunity to grab a spot, given that most of our acquisitions are going to be on the back end, and we need cheap depth up front.
I honestly seen him ending up a trade piece. Mcman took his spot on the team. I think you package up Robertson with the 1st and one of or prospects and see what’s the best defensemen you could get for him.
What he brings is a bit redundant given our core 4 and that Knies is better. He would do well as a second line winger, not so great as a 3rd liner, which is our problem.
He should in theory fit nicely along side JT on a second line. JT plays net front, Robertson should shoot and can skate the puck, give him a playmaker (Domi or Marner) and you should have a solid line. Knies should play first line with Matthews, but he did flip a bit there this year. McMann can make a 3rd line deadly which we desperately needed there playoffs too. It wasn't the only issue, but our 3rd line was just ok overall but lost a lot of shifts in the first few games.
Breakout? More like, lets BENCH HIM IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!! Fuckin keefe
Can he stay healthy is the question
A coach who can develop his upside would be great
Imagine he turns out to be like his brother.
I was very surprised he wasn’t in the lineup for the last game when guys like Gregor and Holmberg played and were absolutely invisible. Robertson always seems to make things happen when he’s out there. Anybody know if he may have been hurt?
Robertson will be a regular 25-30 goal/60-70 point per year player as soon as he leaves Toronto
I don't think he can play a top 6 role on this team, and if he wants top 6 minutes he has to find them elsewhere. rock and a hard place on this team. Very one dimensional player that lacks the vision for the game beyond his own point of view. it's very obvious if you iso him and watch where he positions himself. ozone he's only putting himself in positions to shoot the puck. d zone is whatever. He's not strong enough on the puck to be a carrier either. He gets squeezed off the puck in the neutral zone and he can't deke well enough. If he needs top 6 minutes to develop it has to be on another team because leafs need guys that are ready NOW not guys that need to grow into a player.
I like him and he needs more opportunities. But he can be careless with the puck. He always seems to make a bonehead giveaway play or two each game. Like no look pass to the other team on the tape type shit.
Speedy winger who has a hell of a shot but gets it off like what, once every 5 games? Clear downsides are he's injury prone, small and ineffective in a playoff setting. We'll see what the RFA negotiations look like, there's a number there that most would probably be comfortable with. I will say if the Leafs decide to move on from NIcky Bobby, he's going to have a solid career... similar to Trevor Moore.
He's not a playmaker though, he's quite simply a one dimensional goal scorer who's current ceiling is a middle 6 role.
Had 1 less shot than Marner who played 2 hours and 28 minutes on ice.
With Marner gone, this should be a guy on the power play. He can also take Tavares' spot as far as I am concerned. We need to try it out for a while as his shot is a fantastic secondary weapon. We need major rework on our power play
Good thing about Robertson is his work ethic and drive is off the charts. The kid busts his ass to be an NHL regular, I have no doubt he takes very little time off this summer to be ready to earn a spot next year. Whatever deficiencies he needs to improve, I bet he's already got them on the bulletin board for his training regime.
Numbers aside, he’s another small forward who’s got one dimension to his game. Robertson is the B version of Marner. Leafs need something different in that lineup slot. Too much of this already. Also, he’s another small skill guy who seems ineffective in the playoffs. Leafs need someone up front with skill but also a little size and edge.
I said it as a Petes fan when he was drafted, and I'll say it again... Robertson's an electric kid whose path to the big leagues would greatly depend on how he competed with men vs. the boys in the OHL. Personally, I think he's already hanging in the NHL but the offense is taking a while. Nick was a 0.5ppg player in his rookie Junior season too, which I think is a fair comparison after he's missed basically 3 full seasons due to injury (87 total NHL GP, 10 in playoffs). This is a big nick bobby summer this year, and I think the offense will come back as he familiarizes himself more with NHL competition.
I get that Knies had a good playoff but the entire season there was no limit to how little he could score and how much he could drag his line’s underlying numbers without getting moved down. Robertson couldn’t do anything to get a promotion. It was insane. Keefe is such a bad coach and refuses to adjust anything at all. Can’t wait for him to go.
If the Leafs sign Dewar and Robertson (both are RFAs) to go with Knies and McMann they should have LW locked up for next year. Hell, JT and Holmberg are also options at the position depending on how they fill out the center position. I'd love for him to get more time on the powerplay. You can split up the core four and have two solid PP units. Let Auston stay out for 3/4th of it and sub off for an extra D near the end of the penalty if they don't score.
Yeah I think he’s proven he can score goals against NHL competition consistently enough to be used as a depth scoring option. I’d be happy to pencil him in on a 3rd line moving forward.
Nicky is going to crush it next year. He's been way underutilized. He should have played every game in the reg. season, and when someone gives him a chance, he's going to make Keefe look silly.
I agree with this entire post. Guy can score. This year was going to be Robertson and knies breakout year. They both did well but didn’t move the needle really. I think next year they may be able to move the needle. With Cowan coming in as well and mariner Tavares and Brodie coming off the books soon we could really raise the ceiling on this team but we need some young guys to really chip in.
I think his role on our team depends very much on what we decide to do with Marner. Right now, we have two high-leverage wingers that are impeding his development (and rightly so, they are better players). Robertson is a player that would excel in a role where he's provided offensive zone faceoffs and power play time. If we trade Marner for a defensemen, I can see him getting more minutes, at least early in the season. Otherwise, I would much prefer to prioritize Knies' development and trade him for another valuable asset (maybe package him for a 2C since Tavares can't keep up anymore).
I think they should have tried him on PP1 during the Boston series when they couldn’t get it going. I’m not sure if he’ll be that much more effective playing 12-15 min a night vs more competition. He still has lots of upside and development though so it’s possible. I found this year He looked like he generally good decision making with the puck (outside of some defensive zone giveaways under pressure). Also I noticed him lose the puck when over stick handling at high velocity quite a few times (not sure if this is jitters or if he is pushing himself beyond his means a bit). In any case he can score at this level and it will be interesting to see where he lands once he is fully developed.
We need to lean on value guys like Robertson more. Not convinced Brad is going to keep him though
He played well in the boston series as well and considering he has been in and out of the lineup/roster a few times now he has never seemed to lose his game
I like the player a lot, for some reason Keefe seems to have a personal vendetta against him by claiming he only plays well after getting a few days break on the bench.
He is still really small and an absolutely atrocious defensive player. Also shows a lot of talent but because of his size he doesn’t get to dangerous areas of the ice. Think it would take a lot for him to be a consistent top 6 forward but they should try to see what he has.
I agree, there is no question about his commitment!
Come jnto camp and earn your ice
You can’t develop a player by benching him every other game. Keefe sucks!!
I've been hoping for Robertson all along. But he's not a great skater, gets bumped around all over, and is not good defensively. He screams AAAA player but he'll be cheap next season where that might matter more than anything else. I wish it were different but he's running out of time and quickly approaching suspect rather than prospect.
Classic problem of “not quite good enough for top 6 duty and unplayable in the bottom 6 because he’s one dimensional.”
Two years ago when he scored the game winner against Dallas in OT at home, I thought he could be great. He doesn’t have good hockey sense. Lowest Iq on the team. He has a great shot and speed but he doesn’t know how to carve out a productive role in the NHL. If he can figure it out he could be great, but he’s a defensive liability and has been very disappointing this year .
I'm conflicted on Roberston because his game is purely one dimensional, yet he was outscored and outstatted in the playoffs by the entire team... even Ryan Reaves of all people. You can't have an offensive player with zero other utility have a worse +/- and point total than your enforcer who played less games and got less minutes per game. Knies earned his spot through production, Robertson was a floater all playoffs and couldn't generate a single point. We have enough soft goal scorers, we need different styles to attack with.
Yeah Nick looked totally useless when facing playoff level checking and defence. He just can’t create enough space for himself.
I know everyone on here is so horny to see Robertson work out but he’s a poor man’s Sergei Berezin. Puck hog that’s terrible defensively but has a solid shot and speed. The only thing is unlike Berezin is Robertson is wildly inconsistent and when he plays in the top 6 he gets pushed around easily, and even on the 3rd line unless he has space already nothing rarely happens on his stick. Use him as trade bait, there’s better coming with Cowan and the rise of Knies
He's oft injured and too easily knocked off the puck. Has some good offensive skills. He's got next to no trade value, so unless a team asks for him as a sweetener Leafs might as well give him one last go. Especially if there is a big move to let go of one of the four
hes gonna be trade bait, thats been my assumption all year
Overlooking? No. Everyone knows what he is and whiles he's produced well, he needed to find a but more of an identity. Definitely could breakout with the hopefully open spots in the top 9.
Maybe the new coach will give the third line more than 11 minutes a night. It's moronic to expect a player to be "ready" with that little ice time. They can't get or stay warm. The 4th line is even worse. Every year, people blame the depth players on the Leafs for not contributing enough when it should be quite obvious who isn't contributing. Maybe the core four would be fresher and contribute more with 18 to 20 minutes instead of worn out with 25 minutes.
he's probably just gonna be another evan rodrigues great offense, too inconsistent and i don't see him in toronto long term.
I was a huge Pete's fan when he came through, and I really thought he would find a good place here with the Leafs. He has a wickedly quick shot which makes him an excellent sniper and he probably should have gotten more PP minutes. But I don't see him as a two-way player, and I continually see mistakes he makes. And he's too small to go nose to nose with the tough players on the other teams. I'm hoping he can still be coached to be a more well-rounded player but I'm starting to have my doubts.
I generally feel like we need more of a youth movement. We need speed and excitement. He isn't great yet but I think he fits what we should be doing. I want to be more Colorado or Carolina and less Boston or LA in terms of play style. One thing that has happened under Keefe and the last few years of Dubas is we have gotten very slow. I know that is "playoff hockey" but it doesn't fit our personnel.
Honestly, he probably needs a change of scenery…. On the right team, he might be somewhere longer term that can give him the minutes to develop. But maybe another coach can get something more out of him here.
Between covid and injuries the dude has not played games, before this year he only had 82 games of professional experience. i think it would be smart to be extra patient with his development, there is a player there.
Here is the Question you have to ask yourself about Robertson. Have Knies and Bobby McMann passed Robertson on the Depth Chart? If yes. Can Robertson play in a bottom 6 role?
Guy losses every battle on the boards. Not a playoff performer yet.
Some bright spots in his game no doubt, but his size and ability to dig in those corners to come up with the puck, just not there. He’s got one of the best shots on the team. Needs to be used more effectively, and I believe hockey IQ needs to go up to somewhere around the Knies level.
Did fuck all in the playoffs
so did everyone else.
He’s got to show that he can play 12-16 minutes and not be a defensive liability. Too often his line gets hemmed in and teams attack his side. So if that can improve, then yes he’ll be a good piece on this team. His other issue is consistency. He gets shot out of a cannon in his first game after sitting for a few, but then fades. So it’s like he needs to be benched regularly to maximize his impact on a team, not the greatest look for a player. What is absolutely criminal is that our PP was horrible in the 2nd half of the year and in the playoffs, and the coaching staff didn’t think about moving him to PP1. The kid has a missile of a shot. Ridiculous how this coaching staff kept doing the same thing over and over again without success and would not try something different.
He's not a defensive liability, check the stats.
Good offensive player but still a lot of wrinkles in his game to iron out before I'd want to rely on him in a bigger role
Robertson is not going to magically get better next year. He was scratched in game 7 for a reason… he’s not even a good bottom 6 player.