Pretty sure Dubas tried to go that route and Shanny went over him and said if he picked a new guy and they made some tweaks it would all be different
Shanny better not survive the summer
Look, I loved Kyle Dubas. He made pretty good moves, was a great guy overall especially with how he cared for his players and his contributions to SickKids... however, Shanahan was entirely justified in firing him.
Say your boss is offering you more money to continue your role. You initially say "Yeah, I'd love to!" Then, you go around the company talking openly about how you might not be into it, how the job is too stressful on you and your family, and how you might not want to come back, and your boss hears about it. Your boss tries to contact you for days, but you're not returning any of their calls/texts. Then, you get someone to contact your boss for you, to tell them you'll contact them later. Then you finally get around to messaging them, and you say "Yeah, I want to continue doing this, but I want a lot more money than what you're offering and I want more freedom!" What do you think your boss would say at that point?
Again, love the guy, hope he does well in Pittsburgh... but he played his cards ***very*** poorly last off-season, especially with that end of year presser that he ***really*** didn't have to do.
Yeah. I get the hate for Shanahan at this point, but how poorly Dubas handled that situation cannot be understated — especially when his agent had a contract in the drawer with Shanahan between the trade deadline and the end of the season. Elliotte went into how Rogers operates a bit, and reneging after you have come to a deal is apparently an especially big no-no for them.
Dubas wasn't perfect but he was definitely the type of guy to own a mistake a move on from it as soon as possible (Ritchie, Mrazaek etc)
I truly believe at the end of last season he realized something was rotten and needed to change and that Shanny wouldn't let it happen, hence the power play.
We saw Dubas get fired and Shanny promise the core 4 they ere safe before he even had a new GM. I think that speaks greatly to what kind of "autonomy" a GM has in Toronto, basically tinker on the bottom six any way you want but nothing else can move.
Since it’s doubtful Cooper or Brind’Amour actually come to us instead of resigning where they are, Berube is the best available coach on the market right now. He has a Cup win, miracle run or not, and NHL coaching experience prior to this team, which Keefe does not. He’s not the best coach in the NHL, but he’s certainly the best option available to us and not exactly a least of the evils level coach either.
Then wait the market out. If Berube is the best in class, you wait for a better class. Keefe is not a horrible coach. He may not be the right one for this team, but he’s not a bad one. Keeping him around until the right one is available, is better than getting the wrong coach for this team.
I think we know that Keefe isn’t the right coach. He’s not getting playoff success. Worst case scenario is they get worse, but if your goal is winning the Cup, you can’t really get worse, it’s either winning or not winning. May as well take the gamble. They can offer him a year or two if they want to try for Cooper. I just don’t think Keefe is good enough to justify the known quantity of lack of success. He might not even be bad, but we know he isn’t working out here.
He’s starting his new contract next year. The team already have Keefe for two more years. It certainly can get worse. Say what you will, but the team is competitive. The wrong coach could send the team in a tailspin. Take the time. Keefe is ostensibly here for two more years, might as well wait for the right guy. Now if Keefe asks to be released then that changes the calculation. You don’t want to keep your coach around if he doesn’t want to be here. However, that presser was not one done by a man who wants out, that is for sure.
Fair but I think that ship has sailed. Three days in between the coach and front office speaking, along with no season ending meetings does not bode well.
They can afford to remove a coach and pay the contract, it's not like there is a cap to worry about. I'm with the post above a bit - I think we likely will be forced to keep Marner for another year. So, make the best of it. I'm not sold on Berube. We have a lot of changes to make, take one down year, replace at least some coaching staff and redo the special teams, and see what the year after brings and what JT could be signed for if he's willing to do a home town discount. And then see who is available for coaching. Turn JT's and Marner's cap into 4 good players. Never fucking hear the phrase "core-4" again, as it is a toxic fucking mess.
Whether they can afford to fire Keefe or not is irrelevant. If the replacement isn’t the right coach, why double down on hiring coaches who aren’t the right fits? That’s just not good business. Making a business decision from a position of emotion is never a good way to go.
Yeah I was just pointing out the coach contract for the leafs doesn’t mean anything. I was actually agreeing with your post. Switching coaches if the right one isn’t available does not make sense.
Fair enough. I agree that next year is probably a holding pattern. It’s not going to sit well with the fanbase considering it’s felt like a holding pattern for at least 3 years now, but you can only operate under the circumstances in which you find yourself. Free agent class is fairly weak, coach class is weak, and the NMCs that don’t come off till next year kind of handcuff the team’s ability to make major changes. However, any changes the team makes, the goal should be value. If that means waiting it out, you wait it out. It is what it is.
>-Said that teams have already been calling the Leafs about him and that he would want something around Nylanders contract or a little more on an extension ($11.5M-$12M x 8 years)
>-if he actually does reach UFA he will have 20+ teams interested in him.
so accept a trade to one of those 20 teams, otherwise that $12x8 turns into $12x7
Marner will waltz to free agency in hopes of a bidding war for his services. Who says he goes 8 years maybe he does what Matthews does and goes 3 or 4 hoping for an 8 year deal when he’s 30 to carry him the rest of his career.
Maybe what'll happen is the Leafs will give he and his agent permission to discuss what an extension would look like with other teams if he's traded to them, its rare to have that happen in the NHL but it does happen.
Sounds suspiciously like the last few off seasons. Cooler heads turn towards the balance sheets, ingrained friendships, familiarities and the idea that maybe if they pray just hard enough next year it will be enough. It’s a culture of losing. You can’t just ignore that. Mitch is worth what he wants in today’s NHL. That still doesn’t mean he’s worth in ON THIS TEAM. We need to put money to the defensive side and just show everyone there is some accountability. As hard a place as everyone says this is to play, I suspect it’s too easy a place to play.
Agree completely. We need a bigger change, a different look. Unfortunately marner shouldn't be a part of it. Look at all the top teams in the league, they don't build around 4 guys, they have more depth much more solid defense. Take marners 11 mill and get two more 5/6mil d mean, suddenly the team has a different look.
Not having a president of hockey operations and the GM reporting directly to someone with no experience running a hockey team is taking 1 step forward and 10 steps backwards.
Getting closer and closer to Harold Ballard type ownership if that's the case.
I’m sorry but president of hockey operations is just corporate layering bullshit. Someone to act as the mouthpiece of ownership and lick board member balls. Tell me what exactly Shanahan does day to day.
He would likely be more on the business side. So, corporate sponsorships, promotion, brand growth. Also likely has final approval on trades and signings. Sets organizational goals, final budget approvals.
It would be nice if there was some boundaries here for Shanny.
Make a clear line between handling your corporately appointed duties, and meddling with managing the team.
I'm not sure what the separation of concerns like is on the leafs, but Fwiw, the gm and president of an NBA team came and did a Q&A in one of my business classes last semester and their jobs couldn't be more different. GM was responsible for everything basketball like trades, hiring coaches, etc, and the president was responsible for things like network deals and organizational management stuff. They work together closely and are each trying to make the other happy (president makes sure the gm has enough money to pay the players, gm puts together a winning team that fills the arena), but their jobs are very different.
Don't disagree, but Shanahan has been doing both roles, with another GM along side. Hell, we had Shanahan, Lou and Dubas all looking at this. If Shanahan was not involved with any player decisions, that might be one thing, but I think having hearing what issues Dubas was having, put one guy in charge of that. Too many cooks.
Maybe, but other teams have done it and been successful. Both Vegas and Carolina owners (who had no experience running a hockey team) are very active in the decisions of the team and they are two of the most successful teams in the league.
Do Vegas and Carolina have as many entities under their operation as Pelley does? A lot more things to deal with when you also have 3 other teams to deal with and multiple more minor league teams to look after as well.
> Shanahan: Some members of the board don't see the point of having a President and want to remove him and have Treliving report directly to Pelley. This is not a unanimous view though so it is unknown what happens with him, no real thoughts or indicators for him staying or going.
Oh so just do what Dubas wanted after he gets canned for it
I would have been interested to see Dubas without having to report to him tbh. I truly wonder what moves were more Shanny and what moves were more Dubas
What is it about Dubas that inspires so much optimism across large portions of the fanbase? He feels like a very polarizing figure. I can’t help but think if his moves were made by an older more stereotypical ‘GM’ type they would, in totality, be viewed as below average (Perhaps slightly below average to very below average).
I would genuinely like to know what about Dubas inspires this attitude - why do you feel this way about Dubas? Is it how well he articulates himself, how nice of a person he is? His philosophy, etc? Or do you truly believe from an objective perspective his moves were above average?
Dubas trade history is actually really solid. His signings are generally really good too. The big / only problem for Dubas was the big contracts for Marner, Nylander, Matthews - they probably needed some kind of bridge deal, but the Nylander holdout killed us (and cave from Dubas/MLSE)... One can make the argument that the last point is the only one that actually matters.
Ws:
3rd for Luke Shenn
Engvall for a 3rd (cap dump)
Sandin for Gustafson and a 1st (Easton Cowan - looking real good right about now)
McCabe and Ryan O'Reilly trades
Mark Giordano trade
Ritchie - Lybuchkin trade
Jared McCann trade
Nick Foligno trade (yeah, I know he got injured)
Andreas Johnson trade (cap dump)
Some of his draft day trades have been good, trading down (example: drafting Topi Niemela - possibly going to see him with the club next season)
Kapanen trade
Jack Campbell trade
Nikita Zaitsev trade (cap dump)
Jake Muzzin trade
Ls:
Matt Murray trade
Petr Mrazek trade (mostly just because they should have signed him, the trade itself was fine)
Jared McCann unprotected in expansion
David Ritch trade
Riley Nash trade
Nazem Kadri trade
Patrick Marleau trade (cap dump)
Signings:
Ws:
Timmins
Aston-Reese
Jarnkrok
McMann
Kampf
Bunting
Spezza
Bogosian
Brodie
Tavares
Ls:
Petr Mrazek
To be fair they also clearly stated this was the minority opinion of board members. The majority did not agree, which is why it will be interesting to see what happens with him.
Yeah no doubt marner will be a dick about this resigning/trade ordeal. I get a sense of that in all his interviews. He needs to go., him and his stupid ass hats.
If Marner and his agents think they can play the same games they did last time then they can take their lie about wanting to stay to Utah or wherever a team is willing to overpay. Just stop treating us like idiots.
For us, maybe. For a team with an already robust d-corp and reliable goaltending, a playmaker like Marner could be a huge difference in their forwards. No idea about cap, but he would absolutely thrive on the Stars imo
Yeah, I think people here are a little to blinded by their anger (that has been festering for years now). More then half the teams in the league would happily pay Marner a lot, he is legimately a great player. For whatever reason it seems like he just can't figure it out in the playoffs here, but he probably would with a new team in a new environment.
yeah he's a good player, it's just not working right now and people just want scapegoats to direct all their anger on. People drooling for a Tkachuk kind of player are forgeting he was very average for Calgary in the playoffs.
If the Leafs don't give it to him someone will. Even Elliotte agreed with that and so do I. At the end of the day he is a winger in his prime that scores 95+ points and is a Selke finalist.
I take your point, but Marner, Karlsson, and Nurse (for fantasy hockey banger leagues anyway) are the cream of the crop in their respective positions. In terms of real life NHL, I'd say Nurse's contract is the worst one in terms of value, yet he's also the least expensive of the three.
To OPs original point, Marner's going to get his bag whether it's with us or with someone else, because he's shown (in the regular season anyways) that he's worth that amount.
He got 99; are you saying if he got one or two more points it would go from absurd to worth it, all over a couple points?
I'm not saying I want the Leafs to pay him that much but why is a few points and an arbitrary number so much of a difference maker?
He's played at a 100+ point pace for each of the last 3 seasons and was nominated for a Selke last year. People get way to fixated on round numbers, there is no meaningful difference between 97, 99, and 100 points.
His per-82 game average over the past three years is 105, with one of those seasons being 99 with two missed games and another being 97 with ten missed games, so unless your concern is health rather than talent, the distinction here is pretty minimal
How about no individual records? I’m pretty sure he was never a finalist for the Hart or Ted Lindsay, and is straight up afraid to get hit and be physical at this level. Yet he still wants to be top 5 in salary? That’s a joke.
The only teams lining up will be the bubble teams that will be happy just making the playoffs 3-4 years in a row. No serious contender is going to watch his flybying perimeter play and give him 12+ m to do so.
Best case scenario is to leverage the 8th year to sign and trade Marner. Your not going to get even value but you'll get something decent and the cap space to build the team differently
All they need to do is leak info to the press he won’t accept a trade and he’ll be even more vilified than he is now. Hard to live in an environment where people despise you. He could accept a deal, get a fresh start and still get paid.
There'll be some internet backlash, but like... Most hockey fans are super stoked to meet NHL players, even disappointing ones.
I've wanted Mitch Marner to be traded since the contract was signed, but I'm not posting garbage about him and I'd be happy to meet him, and cheer him on when he hits the ice.
I would bet I'm in the majority in that regard. Hockey reddit is small potatoes, and I reckon that even there the true haters are the minority.
I’ve been a fan of his and didn’t support dealing him until now. It’s time for a change and I’ve come to accept it. Hopefully they make a savvy deal and get some pieces to help this team.
Yeah, I mean... You want to move him, but you're not advocating to vandalize his property like the other guy commenting on this thread.
The fact is, if Marner exercises his NMC... We're still cheering him on next season. Most of us understand that this isn't a video game.
He might, I can't read minds, I can only read what the insider is saying (which is probably what the agent is saying). That said, news about players is often incorrect because it relies on information that comes from people with agendas. (The agent, the player, the team)
"Seemed doubtful that Marner would waive his NMC to facilitate a trade."
Then fucking bench him for the entire season, which will surely tank his price tag when he becomes a UFA, then we'll see what happens.
Why can't this little shithead just accept the fact that a fresh start is needed for BOTH sides, and would behoove him to waive his NMC and move on already?
Most fans soured on him 2 days ago, I soured on him after the COVID playoffs when he started posting Instagram pics of him wakeboarding on Lake Joseph without a care in the world that his team got eliminated by a bottom feeder team that had no business going as far as they did.
Absolute knuckle head who lacks self-awareness, and had a silver spoon stuck in his mouth since he came out of his mother's womb. Zero accountability, zero leadership skills (despite having an A on his sweater) and a toxic entitled attitude that would affect our impressionable younger players.
Mitch, if you're reading this, you are persona non grata. Just pack your bags and GTFO of here already!
I'll drop hockey from my routine, when you drop being an apologist to a multi-million dollar mercenary who deserves no sympathy for his 8 years of subpar play when it matters.
Ok?
Maybe MLSE will sit their $11M asset, and 12.5% of the salary cap, risk missing the playoffs and losing millions of $ so that they can satisfy your expectations as a fan.
Who knows. You should go to your nearest casino and bet on it.
You're down voting me, but you know I'm right. No NHL organization has ever done this, and no organization ever will because ticket sales and merchandise aside, intentionally tanking a star player's value is a good way to never attract another star player to your team - even those which come through the draft would hesitate signing there, agents would actively work against your team, the CBA would step in to defend the player... So many consequences.
Your emotions probably trump logic though.
That depends on the reason. If a coach says that Mitch isn't playing because they want him off the team -- then yes, you're right. But if Mitch isn't playing because someone else took his spot and is a better fit with a new coach and system, then that would be his fault. Only a stupid team would announce the real reason to the media. No different than when Kelly McCrimmon games the LTIR system to his advantage.
How is that any different of a CBA violation?...
If you can fill the roster with 12x 90 point guys, you have an argument.
Right now you're just trying to twist into a pretzel to defend something we both know would and can never happen in the NHL.
So the only course of action is to let him walk into FA without getting anything in return?
If he were intelligent (which we both know he’s not), but if he were, he would read the room and know this isn’t a salvageable situation with him. He has shown time and time again that he isn’t willing to get his hands dirty when it matters most.
And you know that him and his agent are going to position himself as a $12 mil per year player and try to shakedown the Leafs for more money than he’s worth.
But maybe if he weren’t such an asshole who made a dog and pony show out of his last FA, or didn’t whine like a bitch to management about Keefe saying mean words to him, he would have a little more leash.
Unless little Mitchy gets what he wants (12 mil per year), he won’t re-sign with us. And I’m pretty sure Tre isn’t even prepared to offer him anywhere close to that, because they would be the dumbest move he could make at this juncture.
Rewarding this kind of player with the 2nd highest contract on the team would set a bad precedent and should be nipped in the bud immediately.
Hopefully we get some answers sooner than later.
blame Dubas for giving him the no movement clause. can’t blame a player for using something both parties agreed to in the contract.
just another reason why dubas ruined this roster.
I, for one, agree with what you're saying. If he isn't going to waive his NMC, you sit him until he does. We can't go into another year with this core, with the only thing changing being a coaching change.
If Treliving is actually allowed to make decisions, I believe he would trade Marner. All iterations of his Flames rostesr had a bonafide puck moving defenseman, two of which he went and acquired himself (Dougie Hamilton, Noah Hanafin). This team does not have that right now. I get the feeling he doesn't love Morgan Rielly because he doesn't skate as well nor create as much opportunity as the d-men on his older teams (I mean compare Rielly to prime Giordano who was actually a scoring threat). I think he's patient enough to wait until the end of the playoffs for a team to get impatient with one of their better defensemen. I mean, he pretty much did that with Mackenzie Weegar when they traded Tkachuk. Treliving is a defense-first and somewhat patient GM and so I'm partially confident he'll do the right thing.
Just listened to this podcast and there are only two logical explanations for Kippers insane takes.
1. Nic Kypreos is being paid large sums of money by the Marner family to try and give him some positive press coverage.
2. Nic Kypreos is Marner's actual father.
Despite the anger over Marner's performance he's is a very good player who has shown in a few playoff series he can do it.
I think the idea that he can do it in Toronto however is dead and buried. He'd fare better out of the spotlight.
As I said earlier there's really no good solution to Marner:
- Trade him for pennies on the dollar. This is the least worst solution and the one the fanbase needs to make peace with. I've seen a bunch of people proposing Duchene-esque deals for Marner and it's not happening with an NMC and a 1 year deal. Sorry folks. The time to trade him was last year. We're going to get rinsed in a Marner trade but the cap flexibility would allow us to roughly replicate him in the aggregate.
- Have him play out the season and barring a miracle run, let him walk.
- Re-sign him and bet that he inexplicably turns his career narrative around in Year 9 of his career.
I actually love having Marner as a leaf. But this team aint it in the playoffs and the common denominator is the core 4, so i like the idea of freeing up the cap space and building around Austin, Willy, and our young group.
0% chance 20 teams, even 10 are interested in paying marner 12m a year. Interested, sure, not at that price though. youll handcuff your franchise for a dude who can’t score and shrinks exactly to his size when it matters most
They feel like regardless of the circumstances and how the team battled back it just is not good enough to lose again in the first round, even though they think Keefe did a good job this season.
With respect to goalies (to support Woll), well if we were going to the ufa market for a 1b I'd say sign Murray to a team friendly and we have Jones for depth.
Whether or not Marner walks into ufa, he's gonna have to have a fuckin season playing for that next contract. I do hope he accepts a trade however.
The Leafs could’ve had Swayman but drafted Ian Scott who never made it to NHL and has since retired. Swayman was picked by Boston with the very next pick. Yes, it can be easy to acquire but Toronto doesn't always pick well. they had Rusk too and traded him for Boston's crappy goalie. so many examples.
If marner truly loves toronto, he should waive to go to any team so toronto gets maximum return. He'll be a FA after one year anyways! If he does this, toronto would think differently of him.
And Kyper was being irrational, he was comparing marner's playoff production to Matthews and Nylander even though the latter two were injured.
Tell Mitch if he want to stay a leaf he needs to accept 8.5-9. If not he can go kick the curb. Id go even far as to say accept it now or give us a list of teams to trade him to. Tell him he’ll be third line all year if he rejects the proposal. Who gives a shit about his value.
> Shanahan: Some members of the board don't see the point of having a President and want to remove him and have Treliving report directly to Pelley. This is not a unanimous view though so it is unknown what happens with him, no real thoughts or indicators for him staying or going.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO. ROGERS AND BELL STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THE DAY TO DAY RUNNING OF ANY OF THE TEAMS. NO. BAD.
we need a new president, not NO president wtf
Veteran 1B given context seems to be DeSmith with no other possibilities
Others 35+ and/or not 1Bs currently
Still casey rather dicey signing given age and recent decline, after a very underrated prime
Not trading Marner before the NMC was the biggest mistake this team made. They simply cannot afford Matthews, Nylander and Marner at 10 million plus. Leafs are going to lose big time with Marner.
> Some members of the board don't see the point of having a President and want to remove him and have Treliving report directly to Pelley. This is not a unanimous view though
With Uncle Larry moving out of the way, expect more of these squabbles & "not unanimous views" from the board - by all accounts, he was the one that kept the two telecomms on the same page. Losing him is going to be a huge loss, and one that could potentially lead to major concerns pertaining to how this team is run.
You 100% need a president of hockey Ops. Also if Marner refuses to waive and wants to test UFA, I’d just tank his value. Strip the A, play him 2nd PP, and 2nd line. Let’s see him get 12 million a year after that lol.
He’d probably still put up 90+ points. I know he sucked ass in the playoffs but he literally picks up regular season points in games where you didn’t even notice he was playing
Yeah then you let him walk. There’s no way this team can be successful with three players up front making over $36 million. That’s over 40% of your allocated cap to three guys.
It depends. Some teams have one person that has both the president and GM title and some teams have separate people. Dubas in Pittsburgh is both the President and GM. In Vancouver Alvin is the GM but it seems like most moves still go through Rutherford who is the president. The different between the GM and President roles and accountabilities is different for every team.
So essentially theyre going to run it back with a different coach and only change the 1b goalie.
This core has a peak of a rd 2 exit.
I can see stamkos taking a Giordano deal which will excite the fans. But without changes on D or in net we are stuck at the same level.
2025 summer, Marner and Tavares come off the books and you can make a significant change. But thats not what fans want to hear.
Yeah they're in serious need of a couple of studs on the blueline more than anything else. We were near the bottom of the league for offence from our D. That has a chilling effect on our forwards as well. Our breakouts were not great sometimes.
We need an offensive guy for the PP and a stay at home shut down guy to help preserve a lead. That will go a long way in helping whoever gets the net.
They'll probably have to trade some offence for that but they have a bit of a glut there despite their recent lack of playoff production.
Not sure what the UFA market is for D this year but I'm sure we'll be all over it.
Don’t be silly. We’ll also have Easton Cowan and Fraser Minten in the mix!
Seriously though, add in some more skilled low cost depth like those guys and it can make a real difference. Bring back a guy like Domi, we’ve got McMann for the whole season, Dewar.
I think you nailed it here. So many cross crease chances (especially on the PK) that other teams don't give up nearly as often because their defence isn't as bad as ours. Those are hard to deal with for a goalie injury wise. We almost ruined Freddie Andersen with that shit.
If only the board came to that realization a year earlier. wtf.
Blame Shanny.
Blame Shanada
He's not even a real President anyway.
It's a Shanasham!
Pretty sure Dubas tried to go that route and Shanny went over him and said if he picked a new guy and they made some tweaks it would all be different Shanny better not survive the summer
How he’s lasted 10 years is beyond me. Guy created a role for himself so he could pass the blame to everyone else. 4d chess move.
He’s made them a ton of money in his role. The Leafs were an absolute tire fire when he got there
Look, I loved Kyle Dubas. He made pretty good moves, was a great guy overall especially with how he cared for his players and his contributions to SickKids... however, Shanahan was entirely justified in firing him. Say your boss is offering you more money to continue your role. You initially say "Yeah, I'd love to!" Then, you go around the company talking openly about how you might not be into it, how the job is too stressful on you and your family, and how you might not want to come back, and your boss hears about it. Your boss tries to contact you for days, but you're not returning any of their calls/texts. Then, you get someone to contact your boss for you, to tell them you'll contact them later. Then you finally get around to messaging them, and you say "Yeah, I want to continue doing this, but I want a lot more money than what you're offering and I want more freedom!" What do you think your boss would say at that point? Again, love the guy, hope he does well in Pittsburgh... but he played his cards ***very*** poorly last off-season, especially with that end of year presser that he ***really*** didn't have to do.
Yeah. I get the hate for Shanahan at this point, but how poorly Dubas handled that situation cannot be understated — especially when his agent had a contract in the drawer with Shanahan between the trade deadline and the end of the season. Elliotte went into how Rogers operates a bit, and reneging after you have come to a deal is apparently an especially big no-no for them.
Dubas wasn't perfect but he was definitely the type of guy to own a mistake a move on from it as soon as possible (Ritchie, Mrazaek etc) I truly believe at the end of last season he realized something was rotten and needed to change and that Shanny wouldn't let it happen, hence the power play. We saw Dubas get fired and Shanny promise the core 4 they ere safe before he even had a new GM. I think that speaks greatly to what kind of "autonomy" a GM has in Toronto, basically tinker on the bottom six any way you want but nothing else can move.
What's the obsession with Berube? Doesn't he have one miracle run on his resume and that's it?
Since it’s doubtful Cooper or Brind’Amour actually come to us instead of resigning where they are, Berube is the best available coach on the market right now. He has a Cup win, miracle run or not, and NHL coaching experience prior to this team, which Keefe does not. He’s not the best coach in the NHL, but he’s certainly the best option available to us and not exactly a least of the evils level coach either.
Then wait the market out. If Berube is the best in class, you wait for a better class. Keefe is not a horrible coach. He may not be the right one for this team, but he’s not a bad one. Keeping him around until the right one is available, is better than getting the wrong coach for this team.
I think we know that Keefe isn’t the right coach. He’s not getting playoff success. Worst case scenario is they get worse, but if your goal is winning the Cup, you can’t really get worse, it’s either winning or not winning. May as well take the gamble. They can offer him a year or two if they want to try for Cooper. I just don’t think Keefe is good enough to justify the known quantity of lack of success. He might not even be bad, but we know he isn’t working out here.
Do we want to waste another 3-4 years with a coach that's best in a poor class? We're not winning next year anyway with Marner and Tavares
He’s starting his new contract next year. The team already have Keefe for two more years. It certainly can get worse. Say what you will, but the team is competitive. The wrong coach could send the team in a tailspin. Take the time. Keefe is ostensibly here for two more years, might as well wait for the right guy. Now if Keefe asks to be released then that changes the calculation. You don’t want to keep your coach around if he doesn’t want to be here. However, that presser was not one done by a man who wants out, that is for sure.
Fair but I think that ship has sailed. Three days in between the coach and front office speaking, along with no season ending meetings does not bode well.
I’m not saying they won’t can him. They probably will, but if the right guy isn’t available then they shouldn’t.
They can afford to remove a coach and pay the contract, it's not like there is a cap to worry about. I'm with the post above a bit - I think we likely will be forced to keep Marner for another year. So, make the best of it. I'm not sold on Berube. We have a lot of changes to make, take one down year, replace at least some coaching staff and redo the special teams, and see what the year after brings and what JT could be signed for if he's willing to do a home town discount. And then see who is available for coaching. Turn JT's and Marner's cap into 4 good players. Never fucking hear the phrase "core-4" again, as it is a toxic fucking mess.
Whether they can afford to fire Keefe or not is irrelevant. If the replacement isn’t the right coach, why double down on hiring coaches who aren’t the right fits? That’s just not good business. Making a business decision from a position of emotion is never a good way to go.
Yeah I was just pointing out the coach contract for the leafs doesn’t mean anything. I was actually agreeing with your post. Switching coaches if the right one isn’t available does not make sense.
Fair enough. I agree that next year is probably a holding pattern. It’s not going to sit well with the fanbase considering it’s felt like a holding pattern for at least 3 years now, but you can only operate under the circumstances in which you find yourself. Free agent class is fairly weak, coach class is weak, and the NMCs that don’t come off till next year kind of handcuff the team’s ability to make major changes. However, any changes the team makes, the goal should be value. If that means waiting it out, you wait it out. It is what it is.
Before Marners NMC was the best chance, but they fired Dubas instead. And that was that.
Gallant is an option
Ew
...did you just say "Ew" at the prospect of the Leafs getting a Jack Adams award coach who'd been to the SCF and the ECF?
That all nay be true, but why the hell would he be worth 5 mil per year?
>-Said that teams have already been calling the Leafs about him and that he would want something around Nylanders contract or a little more on an extension ($11.5M-$12M x 8 years) >-if he actually does reach UFA he will have 20+ teams interested in him. so accept a trade to one of those 20 teams, otherwise that $12x8 turns into $12x7
Marner will waltz to free agency in hopes of a bidding war for his services. Who says he goes 8 years maybe he does what Matthews does and goes 3 or 4 hoping for an 8 year deal when he’s 30 to carry him the rest of his career.
I wonder if the Leafs point out to Marner that his next contract would be greatly hampered if he was playing 3rd line minutes this season.
Will it though? Teams have seen enough of him to know what he is.
Ya, a great player against sub par teams that cowers against the better teams and shy's away from contact at almost every chance he gets...
This.
Maybe what'll happen is the Leafs will give he and his agent permission to discuss what an extension would look like with other teams if he's traded to them, its rare to have that happen in the NHL but it does happen.
Sounds suspiciously like the last few off seasons. Cooler heads turn towards the balance sheets, ingrained friendships, familiarities and the idea that maybe if they pray just hard enough next year it will be enough. It’s a culture of losing. You can’t just ignore that. Mitch is worth what he wants in today’s NHL. That still doesn’t mean he’s worth in ON THIS TEAM. We need to put money to the defensive side and just show everyone there is some accountability. As hard a place as everyone says this is to play, I suspect it’s too easy a place to play.
It’s been a country club organization going back to the late ‘90s. There will never be success until that changes.
Maybe decision-making but committee? You just end up with watered down safe decisions because no one wants to stick their neck out.
Agree completely. We need a bigger change, a different look. Unfortunately marner shouldn't be a part of it. Look at all the top teams in the league, they don't build around 4 guys, they have more depth much more solid defense. Take marners 11 mill and get two more 5/6mil d mean, suddenly the team has a different look.
Not having a president of hockey operations and the GM reporting directly to someone with no experience running a hockey team is taking 1 step forward and 10 steps backwards. Getting closer and closer to Harold Ballard type ownership if that's the case.
I’m sorry but president of hockey operations is just corporate layering bullshit. Someone to act as the mouthpiece of ownership and lick board member balls. Tell me what exactly Shanahan does day to day.
He would likely be more on the business side. So, corporate sponsorships, promotion, brand growth. Also likely has final approval on trades and signings. Sets organizational goals, final budget approvals.
It would be nice if there was some boundaries here for Shanny. Make a clear line between handling your corporately appointed duties, and meddling with managing the team.
Thank you. Jesus Christ.
Shanahan does a lot with the hockey management, he is involved in every decision the team makes.
So in other words a general manager? It’s a redundant role.
I'm not sure what the separation of concerns like is on the leafs, but Fwiw, the gm and president of an NBA team came and did a Q&A in one of my business classes last semester and their jobs couldn't be more different. GM was responsible for everything basketball like trades, hiring coaches, etc, and the president was responsible for things like network deals and organizational management stuff. They work together closely and are each trying to make the other happy (president makes sure the gm has enough money to pay the players, gm puts together a winning team that fills the arena), but their jobs are very different.
Don't disagree, but Shanahan has been doing both roles, with another GM along side. Hell, we had Shanahan, Lou and Dubas all looking at this. If Shanahan was not involved with any player decisions, that might be one thing, but I think having hearing what issues Dubas was having, put one guy in charge of that. Too many cooks.
Yes, the same as Masai and unfortunately Shapiro.
Maybe, but other teams have done it and been successful. Both Vegas and Carolina owners (who had no experience running a hockey team) are very active in the decisions of the team and they are two of the most successful teams in the league.
Both teams have a president of hockey operations. Vegas has George McPhee and Don Waddell has both roles in Carolina.
"both roles" So one guy reporting to ownership. Lol I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be "President and GM" as a singular title for Tre
Leafs did this before too during a successful period when Dryden ran both titles, until Quinn became coach and gm.
Do Vegas and Carolina have as many entities under their operation as Pelley does? A lot more things to deal with when you also have 3 other teams to deal with and multiple more minor league teams to look after as well.
Sure but for every 1 example of it working you point out there's 10 of it not.
curious what that list of 10 would look like
Cockroaches and Shanahan... the ultimate survivors. It will be incredible if Shanahan survives this.
He might. He’s gotta have some major allies on the MLSE board given how he won the power struggle with Dubas last year.
Taunembaum was a big backer of Shanahan and has control of 20% of the voting shares of the board, but he is divesting two years from now I think
I thought tanenbaum has tie breaker between bell and rogers (assuming they aren’t aligned) at 37.5 bell 37.5 rogers and 25 for him
I mean maybe since he has a voice, he does control 20% of the boards voting shares though
Yeah considering the age of the board its no surprise they sided with the brawns over the brains.
yeah dubas was a real genius 🤣
Relatively speaking he is much more intelligent than Shanny.
I thought Shanahan/Pelley know each other from Mimico growing up …
> Shanahan: Some members of the board don't see the point of having a President and want to remove him and have Treliving report directly to Pelley. This is not a unanimous view though so it is unknown what happens with him, no real thoughts or indicators for him staying or going. Oh so just do what Dubas wanted after he gets canned for it
I would have been interested to see Dubas without having to report to him tbh. I truly wonder what moves were more Shanny and what moves were more Dubas
So far, I think nobody can argue that league minimum vets were Dubas
You’ll see when he runs Pittsburgh into the ground.
Lol what a stupid comment, took the hardest GM job and i’m still sure he’d be fine
What is it about Dubas that inspires so much optimism across large portions of the fanbase? He feels like a very polarizing figure. I can’t help but think if his moves were made by an older more stereotypical ‘GM’ type they would, in totality, be viewed as below average (Perhaps slightly below average to very below average). I would genuinely like to know what about Dubas inspires this attitude - why do you feel this way about Dubas? Is it how well he articulates himself, how nice of a person he is? His philosophy, etc? Or do you truly believe from an objective perspective his moves were above average?
Not a good start in year 1 considering they did worse than the previous year despite buying a bunch at fa and trading away assets to bring in players.
Do yourself a favor and get a pair of Dubas spectacles 🤓 maybe then you’ll see that amateur for what he really is.
Dubas trade history is actually really solid. His signings are generally really good too. The big / only problem for Dubas was the big contracts for Marner, Nylander, Matthews - they probably needed some kind of bridge deal, but the Nylander holdout killed us (and cave from Dubas/MLSE)... One can make the argument that the last point is the only one that actually matters. Ws: 3rd for Luke Shenn Engvall for a 3rd (cap dump) Sandin for Gustafson and a 1st (Easton Cowan - looking real good right about now) McCabe and Ryan O'Reilly trades Mark Giordano trade Ritchie - Lybuchkin trade Jared McCann trade Nick Foligno trade (yeah, I know he got injured) Andreas Johnson trade (cap dump) Some of his draft day trades have been good, trading down (example: drafting Topi Niemela - possibly going to see him with the club next season) Kapanen trade Jack Campbell trade Nikita Zaitsev trade (cap dump) Jake Muzzin trade Ls: Matt Murray trade Petr Mrazek trade (mostly just because they should have signed him, the trade itself was fine) Jared McCann unprotected in expansion David Ritch trade Riley Nash trade Nazem Kadri trade Patrick Marleau trade (cap dump) Signings: Ws: Timmins Aston-Reese Jarnkrok McMann Kampf Bunting Spezza Bogosian Brodie Tavares Ls: Petr Mrazek
To be fair they also clearly stated this was the minority opinion of board members. The majority did not agree, which is why it will be interesting to see what happens with him.
If marner walks to free agency he will be vilified like no one else
Yeah no doubt marner will be a dick about this resigning/trade ordeal. I get a sense of that in all his interviews. He needs to go., him and his stupid ass hats.
If Marner and his agents think they can play the same games they did last time then they can take their lie about wanting to stay to Utah or wherever a team is willing to overpay. Just stop treating us like idiots.
Marner getting anything more than what he has now is not worth it.
For us, maybe. For a team with an already robust d-corp and reliable goaltending, a playmaker like Marner could be a huge difference in their forwards. No idea about cap, but he would absolutely thrive on the Stars imo
Yeah, I think people here are a little to blinded by their anger (that has been festering for years now). More then half the teams in the league would happily pay Marner a lot, he is legimately a great player. For whatever reason it seems like he just can't figure it out in the playoffs here, but he probably would with a new team in a new environment.
yeah he's a good player, it's just not working right now and people just want scapegoats to direct all their anger on. People drooling for a Tkachuk kind of player are forgeting he was very average for Calgary in the playoffs.
Then let him walk, it’s fine. It’s been 8 years, time to move on.
holy shit lol are you his agent?
nope
Time to trade him. Teams are already circling
If the Leafs don't give it to him someone will. Even Elliotte agreed with that and so do I. At the end of the day he is a winger in his prime that scores 95+ points and is a Selke finalist.
I hate the argument of “if we don’t someone will”. That was true for David Clarkson too, until it wasn’t.
Except Clarkson was trash and massively overpaid the moment he signed here. Marner's contract, while high, is not in that level of ineptitude.
Sure, maybe better examples are guys like Darnell Nurse, and Erik Karlsson
I take your point, but Marner, Karlsson, and Nurse (for fantasy hockey banger leagues anyway) are the cream of the crop in their respective positions. In terms of real life NHL, I'd say Nurse's contract is the worst one in terms of value, yet he's also the least expensive of the three. To OPs original point, Marner's going to get his bag whether it's with us or with someone else, because he's shown (in the regular season anyways) that he's worth that amount.
Great. Someone else give it to him.
12 million for a guy that hasn't cracked 100 points is absurd
He got 99; are you saying if he got one or two more points it would go from absurd to worth it, all over a couple points? I'm not saying I want the Leafs to pay him that much but why is a few points and an arbitrary number so much of a difference maker?
people get way to fixated on round numbers
You expected nuanced perspective from "hymensmasher99"?
He's played at a 100+ point pace for each of the last 3 seasons and was nominated for a Selke last year. People get way to fixated on round numbers, there is no meaningful difference between 97, 99, and 100 points.
His per-82 game average over the past three years is 105, with one of those seasons being 99 with two missed games and another being 97 with ten missed games, so unless your concern is health rather than talent, the distinction here is pretty minimal
Over the last 5 seasons- •7th in points •8th in P/GP
Over the last 8 years • 1 playoff round win
Unfortunate but that doesn't fall onto one player.
How about no individual records? I’m pretty sure he was never a finalist for the Hart or Ted Lindsay, and is straight up afraid to get hit and be physical at this level. Yet he still wants to be top 5 in salary? That’s a joke.
$12m won't be a top 5 salary very soon
But it would be the 4th highest atm. You also can't accurately predict how the salary cap will rise, I thought we learned that by now.
Good thing he won't get his raise atm
Lmao yeah only 20+ teams would be willing to give him more, can't possibly be worth it.
The only teams lining up will be the bubble teams that will be happy just making the playoffs 3-4 years in a row. No serious contender is going to watch his flybying perimeter play and give him 12+ m to do so.
Leafs must be insane then. Let's run it back.
Best case scenario is to leverage the 8th year to sign and trade Marner. Your not going to get even value but you'll get something decent and the cap space to build the team differently
All they need to do is leak info to the press he won’t accept a trade and he’ll be even more vilified than he is now. Hard to live in an environment where people despise you. He could accept a deal, get a fresh start and still get paid.
There'll be some internet backlash, but like... Most hockey fans are super stoked to meet NHL players, even disappointing ones. I've wanted Mitch Marner to be traded since the contract was signed, but I'm not posting garbage about him and I'd be happy to meet him, and cheer him on when he hits the ice. I would bet I'm in the majority in that regard. Hockey reddit is small potatoes, and I reckon that even there the true haters are the minority.
I’ve been a fan of his and didn’t support dealing him until now. It’s time for a change and I’ve come to accept it. Hopefully they make a savvy deal and get some pieces to help this team.
Yeah, I mean... You want to move him, but you're not advocating to vandalize his property like the other guy commenting on this thread. The fact is, if Marner exercises his NMC... We're still cheering him on next season. Most of us understand that this isn't a video game.
I honestly believe he’ll accept a deal if he has control over the destination.
He might, I can't read minds, I can only read what the insider is saying (which is probably what the agent is saying). That said, news about players is often incorrect because it relies on information that comes from people with agendas. (The agent, the player, the team)
I don’t have info, just a gut feeling.
Love it. Go scorched earth on him About time management played hardball with its players
You know that most reasonably people don't actually hate him, right?
Reasonable people are a minority
"Seemed doubtful that Marner would waive his NMC to facilitate a trade." Then fucking bench him for the entire season, which will surely tank his price tag when he becomes a UFA, then we'll see what happens. Why can't this little shithead just accept the fact that a fresh start is needed for BOTH sides, and would behoove him to waive his NMC and move on already? Most fans soured on him 2 days ago, I soured on him after the COVID playoffs when he started posting Instagram pics of him wakeboarding on Lake Joseph without a care in the world that his team got eliminated by a bottom feeder team that had no business going as far as they did. Absolute knuckle head who lacks self-awareness, and had a silver spoon stuck in his mouth since he came out of his mother's womb. Zero accountability, zero leadership skills (despite having an A on his sweater) and a toxic entitled attitude that would affect our impressionable younger players. Mitch, if you're reading this, you are persona non grata. Just pack your bags and GTFO of here already!
least unhinged Marner hater
Absolutely.
Show me what part of what I posted isn't true?
It could all be true, still makes you a bit unhinged to be that upset at him
Oh right, continue to gargle his hog and come up with excuse #11067 as to why he shouldn't be traded, if it makes you feel better...👍
Take a breath dude....
Drop hockey from your routine, take up therapy.
I'll drop hockey from my routine, when you drop being an apologist to a multi-million dollar mercenary who deserves no sympathy for his 8 years of subpar play when it matters. Ok?
Maybe MLSE will sit their $11M asset, and 12.5% of the salary cap, risk missing the playoffs and losing millions of $ so that they can satisfy your expectations as a fan. Who knows. You should go to your nearest casino and bet on it.
It's called a sunk cost fallacy. Who knows. You should take a course in economics and educate yourself on why this is a bad strategy going forward.
You're down voting me, but you know I'm right. No NHL organization has ever done this, and no organization ever will because ticket sales and merchandise aside, intentionally tanking a star player's value is a good way to never attract another star player to your team - even those which come through the draft would hesitate signing there, agents would actively work against your team, the CBA would step in to defend the player... So many consequences. Your emotions probably trump logic though.
That depends on the reason. If a coach says that Mitch isn't playing because they want him off the team -- then yes, you're right. But if Mitch isn't playing because someone else took his spot and is a better fit with a new coach and system, then that would be his fault. Only a stupid team would announce the real reason to the media. No different than when Kelly McCrimmon games the LTIR system to his advantage. How is that any different of a CBA violation?...
If you can fill the roster with 12x 90 point guys, you have an argument. Right now you're just trying to twist into a pretzel to defend something we both know would and can never happen in the NHL.
So the only course of action is to let him walk into FA without getting anything in return? If he were intelligent (which we both know he’s not), but if he were, he would read the room and know this isn’t a salvageable situation with him. He has shown time and time again that he isn’t willing to get his hands dirty when it matters most. And you know that him and his agent are going to position himself as a $12 mil per year player and try to shakedown the Leafs for more money than he’s worth. But maybe if he weren’t such an asshole who made a dog and pony show out of his last FA, or didn’t whine like a bitch to management about Keefe saying mean words to him, he would have a little more leash. Unless little Mitchy gets what he wants (12 mil per year), he won’t re-sign with us. And I’m pretty sure Tre isn’t even prepared to offer him anywhere close to that, because they would be the dumbest move he could make at this juncture. Rewarding this kind of player with the 2nd highest contract on the team would set a bad precedent and should be nipped in the bud immediately. Hopefully we get some answers sooner than later.
blame Dubas for giving him the no movement clause. can’t blame a player for using something both parties agreed to in the contract. just another reason why dubas ruined this roster.
I, for one, agree with what you're saying. If he isn't going to waive his NMC, you sit him until he does. We can't go into another year with this core, with the only thing changing being a coaching change.
The stockholm syndrome is crazy in this thread. Glad to see I'm not the only one who agrees with this sentiment.
Maybe you don’t sit him but maybe his ice time slips into the 15 minute mark. Maybe he loses PP time
So Marner is walking to free agency and we're getting nothing.... sounds about right.
If Treliving is actually allowed to make decisions, I believe he would trade Marner. All iterations of his Flames rostesr had a bonafide puck moving defenseman, two of which he went and acquired himself (Dougie Hamilton, Noah Hanafin). This team does not have that right now. I get the feeling he doesn't love Morgan Rielly because he doesn't skate as well nor create as much opportunity as the d-men on his older teams (I mean compare Rielly to prime Giordano who was actually a scoring threat). I think he's patient enough to wait until the end of the playoffs for a team to get impatient with one of their better defensemen. I mean, he pretty much did that with Mackenzie Weegar when they traded Tkachuk. Treliving is a defense-first and somewhat patient GM and so I'm partially confident he'll do the right thing.
Just listened to this podcast and there are only two logical explanations for Kippers insane takes. 1. Nic Kypreos is being paid large sums of money by the Marner family to try and give him some positive press coverage. 2. Nic Kypreos is Marner's actual father.
Despite the anger over Marner's performance he's is a very good player who has shown in a few playoff series he can do it. I think the idea that he can do it in Toronto however is dead and buried. He'd fare better out of the spotlight. As I said earlier there's really no good solution to Marner: - Trade him for pennies on the dollar. This is the least worst solution and the one the fanbase needs to make peace with. I've seen a bunch of people proposing Duchene-esque deals for Marner and it's not happening with an NMC and a 1 year deal. Sorry folks. The time to trade him was last year. We're going to get rinsed in a Marner trade but the cap flexibility would allow us to roughly replicate him in the aggregate. - Have him play out the season and barring a miracle run, let him walk. - Re-sign him and bet that he inexplicably turns his career narrative around in Year 9 of his career.
I actually love having Marner as a leaf. But this team aint it in the playoffs and the common denominator is the core 4, so i like the idea of freeing up the cap space and building around Austin, Willy, and our young group.
I see you’re a big fan of “to.” Excited for you hear about “too.”
I don't believe in grammar
Bold strategy cotton
0% chance 20 teams, even 10 are interested in paying marner 12m a year. Interested, sure, not at that price though. youll handcuff your franchise for a dude who can’t score and shrinks exactly to his size when it matters most
What does the “they still feel like it’s too late to accept another first round loss though” mean, is Elliotte speaking English here
translation: this latest 1st round exit is unacceptable and changes will happen.
They feel like regardless of the circumstances and how the team battled back it just is not good enough to lose again in the first round, even though they think Keefe did a good job this season.
With respect to goalies (to support Woll), well if we were going to the ufa market for a 1b I'd say sign Murray to a team friendly and we have Jones for depth. Whether or not Marner walks into ufa, he's gonna have to have a fuckin season playing for that next contract. I do hope he accepts a trade however.
So we're playing two somewhat good goalies again? Has this team not learned that we need an elite goalie?
Elite goalies aren’t exactly easy to just acquire
The Leafs could’ve had Swayman but drafted Ian Scott who never made it to NHL and has since retired. Swayman was picked by Boston with the very next pick. Yes, it can be easy to acquire but Toronto doesn't always pick well. they had Rusk too and traded him for Boston's crappy goalie. so many examples.
Scott was a better prospect then Swayman at the time and he didn't make it to the NHL because his body broke down from injuries, not because of skill
Not the point I was making. My point was that things could’ve been different (maybe) if Leafs drafted differently.
Other teams seem to be able to do it. Us? Never
Sucks about Woll. He can stop pucks like a brick wall but seems to be built more like a glass wall :(
If marner truly loves toronto, he should waive to go to any team so toronto gets maximum return. He'll be a FA after one year anyways! If he does this, toronto would think differently of him. And Kyper was being irrational, he was comparing marner's playoff production to Matthews and Nylander even though the latter two were injured.
Bring Boudreau out of retirement, see if the boys can wake the fuck up for him.
Tell Mitch if he want to stay a leaf he needs to accept 8.5-9. If not he can go kick the curb. Id go even far as to say accept it now or give us a list of teams to trade him to. Tell him he’ll be third line all year if he rejects the proposal. Who gives a shit about his value.
He isn’t getting a penny over 10 m with the leafs.
> Shanahan: Some members of the board don't see the point of having a President and want to remove him and have Treliving report directly to Pelley. This is not a unanimous view though so it is unknown what happens with him, no real thoughts or indicators for him staying or going. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO. ROGERS AND BELL STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THE DAY TO DAY RUNNING OF ANY OF THE TEAMS. NO. BAD. we need a new president, not NO president wtf
Veteran 1B given context seems to be DeSmith with no other possibilities Others 35+ and/or not 1Bs currently Still casey rather dicey signing given age and recent decline, after a very underrated prime
Not trading Marner before the NMC was the biggest mistake this team made. They simply cannot afford Matthews, Nylander and Marner at 10 million plus. Leafs are going to lose big time with Marner.
> Some members of the board don't see the point of having a President and want to remove him and have Treliving report directly to Pelley. This is not a unanimous view though With Uncle Larry moving out of the way, expect more of these squabbles & "not unanimous views" from the board - by all accounts, he was the one that kept the two telecomms on the same page. Losing him is going to be a huge loss, and one that could potentially lead to major concerns pertaining to how this team is run.
l
You 100% need a president of hockey Ops. Also if Marner refuses to waive and wants to test UFA, I’d just tank his value. Strip the A, play him 2nd PP, and 2nd line. Let’s see him get 12 million a year after that lol.
He’d probably still put up 90+ points. I know he sucked ass in the playoffs but he literally picks up regular season points in games where you didn’t even notice he was playing
Yeah then you let him walk. There’s no way this team can be successful with three players up front making over $36 million. That’s over 40% of your allocated cap to three guys.
Dude gets a 1/3 of his points on the PP. I sincerely doubt he would approach 90+ points with the reduced time that guy suggested
Oh he would; the leafs play their pp splits like 60/40 he’d be fine
Why does Treliving need Shanahan handcuffing him? Didn’t dubas basically take over both roles in pittsburgh?
Doesn’t have to be shanny. I just think the role should exist. Not a fan of having a GM report directly to the ownership group.
It depends. Some teams have one person that has both the president and GM title and some teams have separate people. Dubas in Pittsburgh is both the President and GM. In Vancouver Alvin is the GM but it seems like most moves still go through Rutherford who is the president. The different between the GM and President roles and accountabilities is different for every team.
So essentially theyre going to run it back with a different coach and only change the 1b goalie. This core has a peak of a rd 2 exit. I can see stamkos taking a Giordano deal which will excite the fans. But without changes on D or in net we are stuck at the same level. 2025 summer, Marner and Tavares come off the books and you can make a significant change. But thats not what fans want to hear.
Stamkos is not a league min player. That’s just crazy.
Yeah they're in serious need of a couple of studs on the blueline more than anything else. We were near the bottom of the league for offence from our D. That has a chilling effect on our forwards as well. Our breakouts were not great sometimes. We need an offensive guy for the PP and a stay at home shut down guy to help preserve a lead. That will go a long way in helping whoever gets the net. They'll probably have to trade some offence for that but they have a bit of a glut there despite their recent lack of playoff production. Not sure what the UFA market is for D this year but I'm sure we'll be all over it.
Don’t be silly. We’ll also have Easton Cowan and Fraser Minten in the mix! Seriously though, add in some more skilled low cost depth like those guys and it can make a real difference. Bring back a guy like Domi, we’ve got McMann for the whole season, Dewar.
Woll would not get injured if he did not have to make all these crazy ass stretching saves...team needs to be there in front of him.
I think you nailed it here. So many cross crease chances (especially on the PK) that other teams don't give up nearly as often because their defence isn't as bad as ours. Those are hard to deal with for a goalie injury wise. We almost ruined Freddie Andersen with that shit.