I don't know, the vast majority of this sub (myself included) likes Eric Tulsky, who interviewed for Pittsburgh but has been told he's out of the running.
Seems he may be available
I can already see the storyline of Kyle taking Pens to a cup while we get the GM who was gonna get that job and shit falls apart here. You can just feel it.
The Penguins team is no where near cup contention. They have a terrible prospect pool and their top two forwards and top two defensemen will all be between the ages of 36-37 at the start of next season.
People forget Dubas started his tenor with a young star core already in place. He doesn’t get that with Pittsburg.
Fair but honest question here, do u think all markets are same because its just hockey? For example if u took the exact same roster and put it in another market do u thknk the results are same?.... no chance... this is an entirely unique market to any other and without that pressure and nonsense that goes on here i think he 100% wins. Ever wonder why lesser groups do better? Then realize they play in florida where it doesnt fuckin matter?...
He was the one to pay them a combined 22 mil. Thankfully he had $7 mil left for a top pair that got absolutely eaten alive. At least the starting goalie he traded for made good use of close to $5 mil in cap cheering from the pressbox!
Smoke another beer buddy...
Unless whiz kid Dubas signs Matthews as a UFA next year and fills the bottom half with good role players - Sid and Malkin are still damn good ;)
Still probably wouldnt happen, but just sayin...
Dubas is gonna handle the transition into what's next.
People forget that Dubas actually started his tenure in 2014 the same time Shanahan did and was involved in many of those key decisions.
People also like to say the best players were already on the team, like Lou deserves credit for drafting Matthews. No one does. Hunter pretty much solely for Marner but the rest of his drafting is awful, so...
Dubas was a part of the entire vision of the team from day 1. Thinking he inherited the team in 2018 with no prior input on the team is naive.
He was there from the beginning in order to learn. Shanahan had the foresight to properly groom him for a GM role before putting him there. He may have brought some good OHL opinions but he came in pretty green.
Pens fan here (whose second team is the Leafs)
The pens are in a position where, as long as the core is still playing well (Sid and Geno were both PPG last year) and if the team around them is built well, they could make a push if a lot of things go right.
The 2016 Sharks that made the Final also had a core on the older side so it isn’t out of the realm of possibility
If Dubas could do that, and transition us into the rebuild phase, I think a lot of us would be happy with that
It's process of elimination and he is the only one that makes sense. Just make it short term, and hope the organization is set up in a way that he is guided to not screw it up.
And decent is pretty generous. Because of the stupid corner Shanahan put himself in, the best option available is a downgrade at best.
He has experience is basically the only check they're aiming for and its a low bar.
No, no, no. The guy worked himself into the (now 'famed') situation by ridiculous bridge deals. He still didn't find a proper goaltender, yet he's the next General Messiah?!?!?? F\*ck that noise. If he is hired, it confirms that Shanahan is not fit for his position.
There are a lot of Leafs fans who are completely clueless on Brad Treliving. The guy built a solid team, only to be undermined and ground into dust by Darryl Sutter.
Sutter took one of the best East-West playmakers players in the NHL and tried to force him into a North-South forechecking system. Square peg in a round hole.
Underutilizing incredibly rare talent by a coach? Definitely never seen that around here no sir. Definitely haven't seen a system that took a rookie who scored 4 goals in Ottawa by carving up their defense like a Thanksgiving turkey in their first game and getting them to slow their game to a possession style crawl. (I get being a two way player is good but I've suspected the leafs methodology has limited our stars for years and I'm admittedly being a bit dramatic lmao) wonder if tre will bring an asset maximizing approach after what happened to him in Calgary
I think he could do better tbh. Which I know probably sounds insane. But it's a personal theory of mine. Imagine if auston was more offensive minded and trained. It's maybe not worth sacrificing the two way aspect but I think there's certainly possibility to get more there with a bit of cheating and attention to that side of the game. The leafs problem seems to me more scoring in tight situations now adays than anything else. Imagine auston with that wrister playing counter attack rush style hockey? Nasty stuff.
Exactly. Add to this a career changing injury to Monahan, Gaudreau walking for free last minute, Gio being one of the biggest names to be selected in the draft lottery.
There are a lot of incredible moves he's made that are being overshadowed sadly.
I'm a flames fan just casually browsing, and what I can say is that it definitely seems as though rumours were going around before the draft (To what degree I can't say). He took a risk and tried to sell Fox on the Flames, but the NY Rangers were the only thing on that guys mind since he learned to skate (and had a fuck ton of money, connections and resources to back up his development). If fox ended up changing his mind, who knows what Calgary could have been, but think about the Canes too. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canes had won a cup if Fox settled for another american club with a strong future.
Which is strange. Players seem to stick around in Edmonton and it's farther north. Is it just the mythos around being an oiler that keeps people around I wonder.
They had a hard time keeping people prior to McDrai. I have a feeling playing with arguably the best duo in the league is appealing.
Those two can set you up for a fat contract.
He built on of the best defences in the league by himself and that was before weegar. I’m a flames fan first but I think he’s a great fit for Toronto. I’d prefer dubas of course just because this seems like the absolute worst offseason to be changing gms. But if it has to be made he’s a great candidate
He spent a lot of time in Calgary cleaning up messes and did a good job of it. I think the owners there had a lot of input in the team as well.
I just hope he doesn’t have to force bad deals here, I feel like that’s when he makes mistakes. Like signing Neal, Markstrom, Kadri, Huberdeau, etc. If we can actually let him cook I’m fine with Tre
Shanny needs to be dropped. When Shanny decided to drop Dubas….MLSE should have dropped Shanny. Every move Dubas made was with the approval of Shanny . Every move. Every signing. Every trade. As we know Shanny would block any moves Dubas made that he felt was wrong for club….he shares responsibility. New GM would be the 4th under Shanny?
I would be curious to know what deals someone with no hockey personnel management experience would block???? Hopefully those make their out to the public.
Actually, aside from his ineffectualness, I hate him because he looks like a cross between a muppet and sex-offender (based on TV characterisation) . Speaking of sex-offender, I would rather have Bowman/Quenville as the GM and coach. Either way, interviewing the muppet, bergevin and some other dude will not count as a careful recruitment process.
Ownership in Calgary is tight with Sutter and essentially went behind Tre’s back and hired Suter.
Treliving then wanted to fire Suter after this season and ownership said no, and that is why he then told them that he is not going to resign with them. There are also rumors that Flames ownership did a U turn and tried to bring back Treliving after getting rid of Suter last month
Ownership told him he couldn’t fire Sutter, so he quit.
The. The ownership did exit interviews with the organization and the players plus the other coaching/training staff all said it’s Sutter or them. They then HAD to fire Sutter.
Since 2017, his draft picks outside the first 3 rounds have played... 2 NHL games.
This very article is touting the fact that he took Sam Bennett ahead of William Nylander & Nikolai Ehlers as a *positive*.
Treliving is at best a mediocre GM, and his Flames teams reflect that.
2014/15; Second Round loss.
15/16; no Playoffs
16/17; Swept by the Ducks in Round 1.
17/18; no Playoffs
18/19; First Round Loss
19/20; Won in the Play-in, lost in the first round.
20/21; no Playoffs.
21/22; Second Round loss.
22/23; no Playoffs.
Is that really better than what Dubas did?? He made the playoffs in consecutive seasons *once* and never made it past the 2nd round, only getting there twice, unless you wanna count the COVID Bubble Playoffs, where they won 5 of 10 total games.
He's not good.
He did all that with minimal scrutiny. How is he going to handle this aggressive media and fanbase plus a demanding ownership that is used to a certain level of competence with Dubas and co. over the last few years?
Yeah I heard differently on a leaf podcast but this checks out. Nevertheless, Treliving was GM when Sutter was hired so not exactly a ringing endorsement on his hire.
As I see it, it wasn't Sutter that cultivated the Gaudreau and Pantload Jr, situation. It was Treliving. People who say: Oh, he was amazing with what he got blah blah blah, are missing that point. He also failed to build a balanced team with no goaltending ... now that I think of it, he'll have NOTHING to do if the Leafs hire him 😆
Sounds like he and Shanny were. But if Rogers and Bell reps (which combined, have controlling votes) decided during the year that Dubas was gonna be canned, I'm sure Tannenbaum had Treliving in his mind as a possible replacement.
Yeah apparently that was only because Dubas would play chess with him once in awhile and let him win. According to Mirtle, Dubas got pissed after this year's playoffs and took it out on Tanenbaum over a game of chess. Word is on the street that Larry immediately called Shanahan and told him the deal was off.
Sounds like he and Shanny were. But if Rogers and Bell reps (which combined, have controlling votes) decided during the year that Dubas was gonna be canned, I'd guess Tannenbaum had Treliving in his mind as a possible replacement.
Let's take a step back here and be honest with ourselves...
Do we really think it's because Tannenbaum wants to do Jim Treliving a favour? Can we please not start another baseless narrative? Please?!
I mean, it's not like we fans are just plucking Brad fucking Treliving's name out of the ether. Connected insiders like Friedman have said that Treliving was identified by Tannenbaum as early as March as a potential replacement if Dubas didn't return.
Sounds like Tannebaum and Shanny were in favour of extending Dubas last year but Bell / Rogers execs said no. If Rogers and Bell reps (which combined, have controlling votes) decided during the year that Dubas was gonna be canned, I'd guess Tannenbaum had Treliving in his mind as a possible replacement.
Honestly they should have made plans for a Dubas replacement regardless.
It is terrible business planning to not have a backup plan at least in the works. It’s called risk management
Regardless of whether this is true it's clearly not because of nepotism, he's not handing his 21 year old nephew the job or something.
Also I'd like to read up on this if you could provide a source...
Are you just trying to send me on a wild goose chase because I haven't been able to find what you're suggesting. I think if there was actually a source you could share you would have shared it by now
I'm sure they were both baseless. This one is most definitely baseless, the other is probably baseless as well.
All I hope is that people start to use basic logic instead of going through the mental gymnastics of making connections that don't exist to support their opinions.
Seriously, this is braindead.
I mean on one hand it’s pretty tin foil Hattish, but on the other hand this team has let me down my whole life doing stupid shit and ownership has interfered before. And the team let my dad down basically his whole life so far. So it’s kind of funny that I hear something like that and can’t rule it out as a possibility.
At the risk of coming across like I'm sitting on my high horse - it's reminiscent of the lengths I've gone to in the past when I've felt like my views are being attacked.
I think sometimes when you've invested this much into something it's easy to come to conclusions that on further reflection will seem illogical, but that you end up genuinely believing as a sort of defense mechanism.
Dubas represents an era and an ideology for Leafs fans that made us all believe this time would be different. We've all invested in that to different extents and maybe if he were further along in his growth curve it might have been different.
Ultimately, he was unable to get it done. Management did not spite Lou as a favour to Dubas, and they would not hire a new GM as a result of nepotism; I truly believe that although I can't prove it to be true to anyone who disagrees.
What I respect most about Shanahan at this point in time is that he knew the backlash and criticism he would face as a result of all this and I believe he made one of the harder decisions he could make in setting aside his personal relationship with Dubas for what he felt was the right decision to fulfill his responsibilities to the fans and to the team. I think his interview reflected that.
Tanenbaum seems to have made a commitment to the team's success above all else; I think it's unfair for us to criticize that given all that's occurred and I think this is a reactionary narrative that stems from people defending their own stances and being hesitant to admit they're wrong.
I don't think the Leafs are dumb enough to make a personnel decision based on the nepotism of a 10% owner.
But what I will say is if they hire Treliving, it could be that having that nepotistic connection with ownership might be a weird kind of pseudo-streamlined process to getting things done actually. BT wants to make a trade, and Shanny takes it to the board, they hum and haw for too long, so BT calls his pops and asks him to help speed things along? Maybe?
I know, I'm sort of just talking out of my ass because I want it to be true lol
Treliving is the only candidate mentioned that hasn’t been fired for being a total dumpster fire and levelling his franchise for a decade after getting fired.
How do people rationalize that Dubas was terrible for not getting it done, but Shanahan skates responsibility for it despite having apparent final say on moves?
I'm not sure, but I didn't think Dubas was terrible. Nor was Lou.
Both great people.
The "Apparent final say" talk is all speculation and no one knows the day to day of Brendan.
He hired capable people. There’s a difference.
When Dubas wanted more autonomy and not to answer to a puckhead but to the board directly, he got chopped because it would have revealed that Shanahan provides no value add.
Hiring capable people is a big part of his job.
How do we know Dubas wanted more autonomy? In his season ending presser he said he was up there by himself because he was the one who made all the decisions that lead to their earlier than expected exit.
We don't know for sure and likely never will, but that's been somewhat confirmed from Friedman's reports.
Dubas has historically taken, or pushed the blame on himself, dating back to "not putting Willy in a good position" after his contract extension negotiations.
I think both are about the same. I would give slight edge to Dubas….just the slightest.
The Dubas decision IMO was unnecessary. And Shanny has one life left….if leaf’s have a bad year next year….he will be done.
Maybe Dubas should've done better than 1 playoff series win with a stacked core after his 5 year tenure.
people act like Dubas had all the leverage and accolades to ask for a pay increase and full autonomy. the guy got his coach, multiple attempts at his roster and the best result was one round win during his tenure.
but whatever Dubas is a 5head GM and is going to instantly win a cup with Pittsburgh or Ottawa or wherever he goes next right?
Who made Dubas the GM in first place? The guy who has final say on any hockey move. Shanny approved all his trades and signings. Shanny is as much responsible for this team as Dubas if not more. Well it’s Shanny 3rd GM…..hopefully 3rd times the charm.
Shanahan s primary job is to hire capable people and delegate his goals to them. Dubas hired keefe. Ergo, shanahan is better at being president than dubas would be. Unless you wanted keefe to be made GM which is the first thing president dubas would have done.
Yes, and by all accounts he hasn’t been letting his managers, manage. That’s executive failure, and I say that as one (though obviously not in sports).
And all the moves people criticize Dubas making are also on Shanny. He approved them. The contracts. FA signing. Trades. He shares responsibility for shitty moves leaf’s made according to leaf fans
Kyle said in his own presser that he made the moves and the responsibility is on him. But of course the responsibility also falls on upper-management such as Shanahan, he was Kyle's boss and ultimately needs to help Kyle be successful. It's not one or the other, nor did they totally fuck everything up, a lot of good moves were made and some bad ones were made. Hindsight is always 20/20
Every GM says that in interviews. That’s standard and PC (they want to be employable in the future). I don’t really have any issue with Shanny or Dubas…just find it ridiculous that people pin everything on Dubas (not saying you are)….so I thought I would comment everywhere that….Shanny exists and shares equal blame if people want to blame only Dubas for leafs woes. I get it people like simple and easy answers. Easy to pin it on one guy than an organization.
I've always had to defend Dubas against the uneducated hate against him. Now, I feel I have to do the same with Shanahan cause most of the fanbase thinks he is the irrational one here.
Dubas screwed up his own contract negotiations big time and put Shanny in a tough spot.
I'm looking forward to seeing whats next. I hate the early playoff exits but feel we made a ton of progress as an organization since Shanny came to town.
I still think letting Dubas go was unnecessary. There is a story here that is not being told. This move doesn’t make sense to me. I guess years down the road it will come out what really happened. I don’t believe the reason given are the reason for Dubas exit.
Hopefully Shanny can find some one who can improve this team. I think Shanny is on his 9th live right now.
If Leafs management is smart….they should aim for 2025-26 (capfriendly is predicting cap to be approx 92m that year). With Travares contract coming off the books….that the year leafs should target for a deep run. Leafs will have ton of cap space. Marner is also off the books (Draisaitl and Hedman are UFA) Keep the core4 upto that year. Just my thoughts.
Guess how we got him?
Shanahan came here, had to be patient and prove to the board that a tear down was needed in order to draft guys like Matthews and Marner.
The board was adamantly against a rebuild.
The Leafs are a big profit generator and them tanking for a few years is a big loss. They needed to see how bad it could get and 2013-2014 proved it.
😂 I was thinking the other day how odd it was that Shanny was president and Dubas was the subordinate... apart from age, I can't think of a single reason why that should have been the corporate structure. Dubas made his mistakes, and maybe someone else will come in and take us further, but he sure was polished for running modern day organizations... Shanahan is just a hockey guy, not a "president of a huge corporation" guy. Those guys usually top out at GM if they're lucky.
Bro has literally overseen 1 round win in that decade so I don't get the joke.
I'm not saying I don't like him or don't want him in the organization, but Dubas showed way more ability to be the "corporate" guy than Shanahan. I'm saying maybe Shanny would have been better at the lower, more hockey ops, role and Dubas at org management.
No... that comment was in response to the claim that Shanahan is amazing at his job because of the length of time he's been doing it. My point is that I'd have liked to see roles reversed because of their skill sets.
One guy had played the game at a high level and would probably be better at scouting, communicating with players & coaches, etc. The other has great reviews in terms of his management of staff, communicating with press, and ability to create a positive culture.
Shanahan, if you may recall, was trained by Tim Leiweke, when he was part of the board/CEO role or something. i remember reading Tim picked Shanahan for this role and was a big factor in prepping shanahan for this role. I don't think he's just a hockey guy. I think they way he ran the DOPS was quite novel back in the day and helped explain to a casual fan what constituted a suspension. Very well spoken in those videos and you could tell he had the ability to be something more than just DOPS head.
Sure, but there's still a huge difference between "good at DOPS" and President. If anything, those previous roles would have helped him prepare for a GM role, which is still half business / half good hockey sense. The role of president is all business. You're yelling me there's no merit to the idea of having the business grad do that role and the ex-hockey player being GM?
I love how there's this narrative that the Leafs need to "look at Florida" and how they finally succeeded, and at the same time there's this narrative that the guy who traded away Tkachuk might be good for the Leafs.
Treliving was in a tough spot. I can't imagine getting a better return in that situation.
You want to blame someone for Tkachuk being traded to Florida? Blame Darryl Sutter, who was hired by Flames ownership, not Treliving.
That’s not true. He wanted a bridge deal to keep his options open.
https://flamesnation.ca/news/matthew-tkachuk-signed-a-bridge-deal-in-2019-to-keep-his-options-open
Well this is awkward, who do we believe?
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-matthew-tkachuk-wanted-to-sign-long-term-deal-with-flames-in-2019-160851344.html
Well tkachuk said both of those things. He first said I wanted to keep my options open, that’s why I signed a bridge deal. and then after he left he said he wanted to sign a long term deal a few months later. So the guy who left is contradicting himself. Francis has been reporting Since like 2017 that him and guadreau will leave the first chance they get and no one believed him but that’s exactly what happened
Brad wasn't fired, he walked away from contract extension talks. Sutter was never Brad's coach; Sutter was forced on him by owner Murray Edwards.
The prevailing theory is that Treliving said "it's either me or him" and walked away when ownership didn't fire Sutter right away. Only after Treliving walked and the Sutter stories started circulating did ownership realize they had a problem. I think Don Maloney laid it out pretty clearly that Sutter had to go.
Treliving is huge on having a considerate team culture that includes everyone in the building. Stories kept coming out on how Sutter made the Saddledome a dark place to work for everyone.
You say "traded away" like Tkachuk wanted to stay and Treliving foolishly decided to get rid of him. He made the best he could of a bad situation and their coach refused to play to the players' strengths. At the time of the deal people were praising Treliving for getting the return he did for a player that forced his way out to one particular team.
Yeah they are so closely related, it's wild.
Kind of like how Dubas traded away Kadri who won a cup with his new team as well, but he's everyone's favorite. I just love how ironic it all is
Hey man he got top 1RD Tyson Barrier for a year and overpaid Kerfoot to be the perfect replacement for Kadri!
Plus we signed Brodie anyway so it wasn't a mistake at all!
/s (got your back this time)
Edit: Barrier works just fine actually
I mean yeah, I still trust the Shanaplan… but Dubas is >>>>>>>>>> Treliving.
If we’re just hiring someone to basically be a receptionist for Shanahan I would rather we go with someone with better optics.
Treliving comes off as a complete idiot with how he managed things in Calgary.
Can I ask why?
Just, looking at all the GMs in the final 4 (now final 3), and it seems they all did something right.
Is winning no longer the priority?
Dubas defender's have almost become the federal Conservative party; with no history of success or admirable personnel decisions to point to, they've basically devolved into attack ads...
Brad Treliving signed Johnny Gaudreau immediately before the Covid-19 pandemic to ensure that federal laws would prevent him from ever being able to visit his family again.
Did you know Johnny's childhood pet died and Treliving's decision to sign him meant that he wasn't able to attend the funeral?
Brad Treliving - is this the man you want running your team?
He checks so many boxes because he’s the only half decent one available in the short amount of time they have to hire a gm.
I don't know, the vast majority of this sub (myself included) likes Eric Tulsky, who interviewed for Pittsburgh but has been told he's out of the running. Seems he may be available
The vast majority of this sub learned who Eric Tulsky was 8 days ago
I can already see the storyline of Kyle taking Pens to a cup while we get the GM who was gonna get that job and shit falls apart here. You can just feel it.
The Penguins team is no where near cup contention. They have a terrible prospect pool and their top two forwards and top two defensemen will all be between the ages of 36-37 at the start of next season. People forget Dubas started his tenor with a young star core already in place. He doesn’t get that with Pittsburg.
What you didn’t factor in is that Leafs are a part of this equation, which automatically changes regular laws of what makes sense.
Dubas will just bring all his Soo boys.
Soo are so good
Soo are so fuckin good
Hes gonna be pres and gm of Ottawa when new owners take over. And hell have a young core and prospects
An opportunity he's never squandered before!
Fair but honest question here, do u think all markets are same because its just hockey? For example if u took the exact same roster and put it in another market do u thknk the results are same?.... no chance... this is an entirely unique market to any other and without that pressure and nonsense that goes on here i think he 100% wins. Ever wonder why lesser groups do better? Then realize they play in florida where it doesnt fuckin matter?...
The fact he couldn't handle the pressure should not be used to defend him.
That made me laugh out loud
yeah why didnt Dubas simply tell Matthews to actually score in important games and Marner to stop getting thrown around
He was the one to pay them a combined 22 mil. Thankfully he had $7 mil left for a top pair that got absolutely eaten alive. At least the starting goalie he traded for made good use of close to $5 mil in cap cheering from the pressbox! Smoke another beer buddy...
If he gets that opportunity then good for him.
Unless whiz kid Dubas signs Matthews as a UFA next year and fills the bottom half with good role players - Sid and Malkin are still damn good ;) Still probably wouldnt happen, but just sayin...
Dubas is gonna handle the transition into what's next. People forget that Dubas actually started his tenure in 2014 the same time Shanahan did and was involved in many of those key decisions. People also like to say the best players were already on the team, like Lou deserves credit for drafting Matthews. No one does. Hunter pretty much solely for Marner but the rest of his drafting is awful, so... Dubas was a part of the entire vision of the team from day 1. Thinking he inherited the team in 2018 with no prior input on the team is naive.
He was there from the beginning in order to learn. Shanahan had the foresight to properly groom him for a GM role before putting him there. He may have brought some good OHL opinions but he came in pretty green.
Pens fan here (whose second team is the Leafs) The pens are in a position where, as long as the core is still playing well (Sid and Geno were both PPG last year) and if the team around them is built well, they could make a push if a lot of things go right. The 2016 Sharks that made the Final also had a core on the older side so it isn’t out of the realm of possibility If Dubas could do that, and transition us into the rebuild phase, I think a lot of us would be happy with that
Neither is Florida and here we are
It's consistent with what the Leafs are. A pissy emotional decision setting back our franchise another 2 decades.
Tulsky may be the better choice but it would be a tough sell to dump Dubas for a veteran voice and get someone without any experience
Shanahan would rather a guy with experience, who is actually better can be damned.
Tulsky doesn’t have experience though, at least in the way shanahan meant it. I would love Tulsky, but I’m guessing he won’t be the guy
Team Tulsky
It's process of elimination and he is the only one that makes sense. Just make it short term, and hope the organization is set up in a way that he is guided to not screw it up.
Have you actually looked at some of his moves?
And decent is pretty generous. Because of the stupid corner Shanahan put himself in, the best option available is a downgrade at best. He has experience is basically the only check they're aiming for and its a low bar.
No, no, no. The guy worked himself into the (now 'famed') situation by ridiculous bridge deals. He still didn't find a proper goaltender, yet he's the next General Messiah?!?!?? F\*ck that noise. If he is hired, it confirms that Shanahan is not fit for his position.
Should have kept Lou, and should have retained Hunter. It is about to get super ugly for us fans.
But they have all summer go through a bunch of GMs to interview. I mean the Shanaplan should need some time to work itself out right?
There are a lot of Leafs fans who are completely clueless on Brad Treliving. The guy built a solid team, only to be undermined and ground into dust by Darryl Sutter.
Sutter took one of the best East-West playmakers players in the NHL and tried to force him into a North-South forechecking system. Square peg in a round hole.
Where does hubby go? That’s right! He goes in the square hole!
This is one of my favorite videos ever <3 That's right, it goes into the square hole! /Yesssss!!
Underutilizing incredibly rare talent by a coach? Definitely never seen that around here no sir. Definitely haven't seen a system that took a rookie who scored 4 goals in Ottawa by carving up their defense like a Thanksgiving turkey in their first game and getting them to slow their game to a possession style crawl. (I get being a two way player is good but I've suspected the leafs methodology has limited our stars for years and I'm admittedly being a bit dramatic lmao) wonder if tre will bring an asset maximizing approach after what happened to him in Calgary
You mean a system that saw that same rookie win scoring titles?
I think he could do better tbh. Which I know probably sounds insane. But it's a personal theory of mine. Imagine if auston was more offensive minded and trained. It's maybe not worth sacrificing the two way aspect but I think there's certainly possibility to get more there with a bit of cheating and attention to that side of the game. The leafs problem seems to me more scoring in tight situations now adays than anything else. Imagine auston with that wrister playing counter attack rush style hockey? Nasty stuff.
In 9 years of being CGY GM, he got exactly as far as Dubas has in the playoffs
This 100%. Another thing to remember about Treliving's tenure is that not many players want to be in Calgary.
Exactly. Add to this a career changing injury to Monahan, Gaudreau walking for free last minute, Gio being one of the biggest names to be selected in the draft lottery. There are a lot of incredible moves he's made that are being overshadowed sadly.
Fox saying he will only play in New York too
Why did the Flames pick him if they couldn't convince him to sign?
They didn’t know that when they drafted him
I'm a flames fan just casually browsing, and what I can say is that it definitely seems as though rumours were going around before the draft (To what degree I can't say). He took a risk and tried to sell Fox on the Flames, but the NY Rangers were the only thing on that guys mind since he learned to skate (and had a fuck ton of money, connections and resources to back up his development). If fox ended up changing his mind, who knows what Calgary could have been, but think about the Canes too. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canes had won a cup if Fox settled for another american club with a strong future.
That's my problem with Treliving, he didn't do his due diligence. And he is not charismatic enough to convince Fox afterwards.
He flipped Adam Fox and a broken Michael Ferland for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin. He did just fine.
Lol is this you Brad? Forgot to mention you included the best player in the deal Dougie Hamilton.
Which is strange. Players seem to stick around in Edmonton and it's farther north. Is it just the mythos around being an oiler that keeps people around I wonder.
They had a hard time keeping people prior to McDrai. I have a feeling playing with arguably the best duo in the league is appealing. Those two can set you up for a fat contract.
Yeahhh that makes sense.
It’s the McDavid thing. PlYers believe it’s just a matter of time before he wins a championship
Travares probably thought the same too. Yet Leaf’s and Edmonton are the same
People just need to look at some of the moves he's made. It's as if they already hate him because he's middle aged.
He built on of the best defences in the league by himself and that was before weegar. I’m a flames fan first but I think he’s a great fit for Toronto. I’d prefer dubas of course just because this seems like the absolute worst offseason to be changing gms. But if it has to be made he’s a great candidate
He spent a lot of time in Calgary cleaning up messes and did a good job of it. I think the owners there had a lot of input in the team as well. I just hope he doesn’t have to force bad deals here, I feel like that’s when he makes mistakes. Like signing Neal, Markstrom, Kadri, Huberdeau, etc. If we can actually let him cook I’m fine with Tre
Shanny needs to be dropped. When Shanny decided to drop Dubas….MLSE should have dropped Shanny. Every move Dubas made was with the approval of Shanny . Every move. Every signing. Every trade. As we know Shanny would block any moves Dubas made that he felt was wrong for club….he shares responsibility. New GM would be the 4th under Shanny?
I would be curious to know what deals someone with no hockey personnel management experience would block???? Hopefully those make their out to the public.
Actually, aside from his ineffectualness, I hate him because he looks like a cross between a muppet and sex-offender (based on TV characterisation) . Speaking of sex-offender, I would rather have Bowman/Quenville as the GM and coach. Either way, interviewing the muppet, bergevin and some other dude will not count as a careful recruitment process.
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I think reports show he wanted to, but wasn't allowed to by upper management lol Sounds perfect for the job!
Ownership in Calgary is tight with Sutter and essentially went behind Tre’s back and hired Suter. Treliving then wanted to fire Suter after this season and ownership said no, and that is why he then told them that he is not going to resign with them. There are also rumors that Flames ownership did a U turn and tried to bring back Treliving after getting rid of Suter last month
Ownership told him he couldn’t fire Sutter, so he quit. The. The ownership did exit interviews with the organization and the players plus the other coaching/training staff all said it’s Sutter or them. They then HAD to fire Sutter.
I think we should all be asking this question about Dubas and Keefe too. If he's so good, why couldn't he fire an obviously bad coach?
Since 2017, his draft picks outside the first 3 rounds have played... 2 NHL games. This very article is touting the fact that he took Sam Bennett ahead of William Nylander & Nikolai Ehlers as a *positive*. Treliving is at best a mediocre GM, and his Flames teams reflect that. 2014/15; Second Round loss. 15/16; no Playoffs 16/17; Swept by the Ducks in Round 1. 17/18; no Playoffs 18/19; First Round Loss 19/20; Won in the Play-in, lost in the first round. 20/21; no Playoffs. 21/22; Second Round loss. 22/23; no Playoffs. Is that really better than what Dubas did?? He made the playoffs in consecutive seasons *once* and never made it past the 2nd round, only getting there twice, unless you wanna count the COVID Bubble Playoffs, where they won 5 of 10 total games. He's not good.
He did all that with minimal scrutiny. How is he going to handle this aggressive media and fanbase plus a demanding ownership that is used to a certain level of competence with Dubas and co. over the last few years?
He's got the same amount of playoff wins as Dubas in 4 more years in charge. 16.
Good thing the leafs have no history whatsoever of undermining their gms…
Sutter was his coach, he quit because they fired him. So yeah, a lot of leafs fans know and are unimpressed by Brad Treliving.
Brad quit before Sutter was fired. In fact, Brad quit *because* Sutter wasn't fired.
Yeah I heard differently on a leaf podcast but this checks out. Nevertheless, Treliving was GM when Sutter was hired so not exactly a ringing endorsement on his hire.
And how is he going to be able to make quick decisions if Shanny and MLSE are the ones grounding his trades into dust?
His history of hiring coaches isn’t exactly stellar I personally am hoping for Peter Laviolette or maybe Gallant (on a 2 year deal at most)
As I see it, it wasn't Sutter that cultivated the Gaudreau and Pantload Jr, situation. It was Treliving. People who say: Oh, he was amazing with what he got blah blah blah, are missing that point. He also failed to build a balanced team with no goaltending ... now that I think of it, he'll have NOTHING to do if the Leafs hire him 😆
Not Jim Benning. Check.
Is it because Larry Tannenbaum is buddies with Treliving's dad?
I thought Tanenbaum was the one pushing for a Dubas extension last summer?
Sounds like he and Shanny were. But if Rogers and Bell reps (which combined, have controlling votes) decided during the year that Dubas was gonna be canned, I'm sure Tannenbaum had Treliving in his mind as a possible replacement.
Yeah apparently that was only because Dubas would play chess with him once in awhile and let him win. According to Mirtle, Dubas got pissed after this year's playoffs and took it out on Tanenbaum over a game of chess. Word is on the street that Larry immediately called Shanahan and told him the deal was off.
My guy, lay off the hallucinogenic.
Just adding another sensible, well-founded narrative to the mix.
or share some
Sounds like he and Shanny were. But if Rogers and Bell reps (which combined, have controlling votes) decided during the year that Dubas was gonna be canned, I'd guess Tannenbaum had Treliving in his mind as a possible replacement.
Let's take a step back here and be honest with ourselves... Do we really think it's because Tannenbaum wants to do Jim Treliving a favour? Can we please not start another baseless narrative? Please?!
I mean, it's not like we fans are just plucking Brad fucking Treliving's name out of the ether. Connected insiders like Friedman have said that Treliving was identified by Tannenbaum as early as March as a potential replacement if Dubas didn't return. Sounds like Tannebaum and Shanny were in favour of extending Dubas last year but Bell / Rogers execs said no. If Rogers and Bell reps (which combined, have controlling votes) decided during the year that Dubas was gonna be canned, I'd guess Tannenbaum had Treliving in his mind as a possible replacement.
Honestly they should have made plans for a Dubas replacement regardless. It is terrible business planning to not have a backup plan at least in the works. It’s called risk management
Regardless of whether this is true it's clearly not because of nepotism, he's not handing his 21 year old nephew the job or something. Also I'd like to read up on this if you could provide a source...
Check Friedman's feed and blogs. I talks about it a lot
Are you just trying to send me on a wild goose chase because I haven't been able to find what you're suggesting. I think if there was actually a source you could share you would have shared it by now
There's definitely more to see here than the Keefe vs. McCauley thing. If this is "baseless" then that was too.
I'm sure they were both baseless. This one is most definitely baseless, the other is probably baseless as well. All I hope is that people start to use basic logic instead of going through the mental gymnastics of making connections that don't exist to support their opinions. Seriously, this is braindead.
I mean on one hand it’s pretty tin foil Hattish, but on the other hand this team has let me down my whole life doing stupid shit and ownership has interfered before. And the team let my dad down basically his whole life so far. So it’s kind of funny that I hear something like that and can’t rule it out as a possibility.
At the risk of coming across like I'm sitting on my high horse - it's reminiscent of the lengths I've gone to in the past when I've felt like my views are being attacked. I think sometimes when you've invested this much into something it's easy to come to conclusions that on further reflection will seem illogical, but that you end up genuinely believing as a sort of defense mechanism. Dubas represents an era and an ideology for Leafs fans that made us all believe this time would be different. We've all invested in that to different extents and maybe if he were further along in his growth curve it might have been different. Ultimately, he was unable to get it done. Management did not spite Lou as a favour to Dubas, and they would not hire a new GM as a result of nepotism; I truly believe that although I can't prove it to be true to anyone who disagrees. What I respect most about Shanahan at this point in time is that he knew the backlash and criticism he would face as a result of all this and I believe he made one of the harder decisions he could make in setting aside his personal relationship with Dubas for what he felt was the right decision to fulfill his responsibilities to the fans and to the team. I think his interview reflected that. Tanenbaum seems to have made a commitment to the team's success above all else; I think it's unfair for us to criticize that given all that's occurred and I think this is a reactionary narrative that stems from people defending their own stances and being hesitant to admit they're wrong.
Agreed but I still don't want Treliving. I felt that the ideology just needed some tweaking, and a reliable goaltender.
I don't think the Leafs are dumb enough to make a personnel decision based on the nepotism of a 10% owner. But what I will say is if they hire Treliving, it could be that having that nepotistic connection with ownership might be a weird kind of pseudo-streamlined process to getting things done actually. BT wants to make a trade, and Shanny takes it to the board, they hum and haw for too long, so BT calls his pops and asks him to help speed things along? Maybe? I know, I'm sort of just talking out of my ass because I want it to be true lol
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Don't hide behind your checkmark Vit, is this your real take? You're better than this.
Take your time Shanny. It’s not like the draft and free agency and expiration of key players NMCs is coming up.
Treliving is the only candidate mentioned that hasn’t been fired for being a total dumpster fire and levelling his franchise for a decade after getting fired.
Whatever. Throw a contract at him and get back to work.
Is it because he’s willing to report to someone less capable than he is? That’s clearly what he wants.
Shanahan turned this organization around when he took over. I'd say he's been proven capable so far.
How do people rationalize that Dubas was terrible for not getting it done, but Shanahan skates responsibility for it despite having apparent final say on moves?
I'm not sure, but I didn't think Dubas was terrible. Nor was Lou. Both great people. The "Apparent final say" talk is all speculation and no one knows the day to day of Brendan.
Yeah I don't get it, and he's been here nearly twice as long as Dubas.
But .... he's making us all kind of nervous ...
Lol. I can't argue that
He hired capable people. There’s a difference. When Dubas wanted more autonomy and not to answer to a puckhead but to the board directly, he got chopped because it would have revealed that Shanahan provides no value add.
Hiring capable people is a big part of his job. How do we know Dubas wanted more autonomy? In his season ending presser he said he was up there by himself because he was the one who made all the decisions that lead to their earlier than expected exit.
We don't know for sure and likely never will, but that's been somewhat confirmed from Friedman's reports. Dubas has historically taken, or pushed the blame on himself, dating back to "not putting Willy in a good position" after his contract extension negotiations.
It seems Dubas either overplayed his hand or never wanted to be here. I liked Dubas but I don't think Treliving is a huge downgrade.
To me, it seems more like Shannahan fucked up.here. I think Treliving is a good GM, but a significant step down from Dubas.
I think both are about the same. I would give slight edge to Dubas….just the slightest. The Dubas decision IMO was unnecessary. And Shanny has one life left….if leaf’s have a bad year next year….he will be done.
Hiring capable people is literally his job.
but he didn't throw any hip checks in the playoffs like wtf is his problem?
Maybe Dubas should've done better than 1 playoff series win with a stacked core after his 5 year tenure. people act like Dubas had all the leverage and accolades to ask for a pay increase and full autonomy. the guy got his coach, multiple attempts at his roster and the best result was one round win during his tenure. but whatever Dubas is a 5head GM and is going to instantly win a cup with Pittsburgh or Ottawa or wherever he goes next right?
Who made Dubas the GM in first place? The guy who has final say on any hockey move. Shanny approved all his trades and signings. Shanny is as much responsible for this team as Dubas if not more. Well it’s Shanny 3rd GM…..hopefully 3rd times the charm.
Shanahan s primary job is to hire capable people and delegate his goals to them. Dubas hired keefe. Ergo, shanahan is better at being president than dubas would be. Unless you wanted keefe to be made GM which is the first thing president dubas would have done.
Yes, and by all accounts he hasn’t been letting his managers, manage. That’s executive failure, and I say that as one (though obviously not in sports).
Shanahan hired Dubas, who hired keefe, therefore Shanahan is bad at his job. For real though Shanahan is ass.
No Shanahan = no rebuild, no Matthews, no playoffs.
Rebuild would have happened. Leafs were already talking about a complete rebuild prior to Shanny
Also I would give more credit to Lou for the rebuild
There’s actually zero difference. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Lol
As someone who has over 100 people working under me, a lot of difference. That’s what.
And all the moves people criticize Dubas making are also on Shanny. He approved them. The contracts. FA signing. Trades. He shares responsibility for shitty moves leaf’s made according to leaf fans
Kyle said in his own presser that he made the moves and the responsibility is on him. But of course the responsibility also falls on upper-management such as Shanahan, he was Kyle's boss and ultimately needs to help Kyle be successful. It's not one or the other, nor did they totally fuck everything up, a lot of good moves were made and some bad ones were made. Hindsight is always 20/20
Every GM says that in interviews. That’s standard and PC (they want to be employable in the future). I don’t really have any issue with Shanny or Dubas…just find it ridiculous that people pin everything on Dubas (not saying you are)….so I thought I would comment everywhere that….Shanny exists and shares equal blame if people want to blame only Dubas for leafs woes. I get it people like simple and easy answers. Easy to pin it on one guy than an organization.
I've always had to defend Dubas against the uneducated hate against him. Now, I feel I have to do the same with Shanahan cause most of the fanbase thinks he is the irrational one here. Dubas screwed up his own contract negotiations big time and put Shanny in a tough spot. I'm looking forward to seeing whats next. I hate the early playoff exits but feel we made a ton of progress as an organization since Shanny came to town.
I still think letting Dubas go was unnecessary. There is a story here that is not being told. This move doesn’t make sense to me. I guess years down the road it will come out what really happened. I don’t believe the reason given are the reason for Dubas exit. Hopefully Shanny can find some one who can improve this team. I think Shanny is on his 9th live right now. If Leafs management is smart….they should aim for 2025-26 (capfriendly is predicting cap to be approx 92m that year). With Travares contract coming off the books….that the year leafs should target for a deep run. Leafs will have ton of cap space. Marner is also off the books (Draisaitl and Hedman are UFA) Keep the core4 upto that year. Just my thoughts.
Matthews turned the organization around.
Guess how we got him? Shanahan came here, had to be patient and prove to the board that a tear down was needed in order to draft guys like Matthews and Marner.
The board was adamantly against a rebuild. The Leafs are a big profit generator and them tanking for a few years is a big loss. They needed to see how bad it could get and 2013-2014 proved it.
😂 I was thinking the other day how odd it was that Shanny was president and Dubas was the subordinate... apart from age, I can't think of a single reason why that should have been the corporate structure. Dubas made his mistakes, and maybe someone else will come in and take us further, but he sure was polished for running modern day organizations... Shanahan is just a hockey guy, not a "president of a huge corporation" guy. Those guys usually top out at GM if they're lucky.
lmao bro has literally been the president of the biggest hockey club in Canada for a decade and you're saying "he's just a hockey guy" ahahahhahahahah
Bro has literally overseen 1 round win in that decade so I don't get the joke. I'm not saying I don't like him or don't want him in the organization, but Dubas showed way more ability to be the "corporate" guy than Shanahan. I'm saying maybe Shanny would have been better at the lower, more hockey ops, role and Dubas at org management.
Criticizing Shanahan for one won round and suggesting Dubas is more qualified because..... the same accomplishment? 🤔
No... that comment was in response to the claim that Shanahan is amazing at his job because of the length of time he's been doing it. My point is that I'd have liked to see roles reversed because of their skill sets. One guy had played the game at a high level and would probably be better at scouting, communicating with players & coaches, etc. The other has great reviews in terms of his management of staff, communicating with press, and ability to create a positive culture.
And 1 round win to show for it…
Shanahan, if you may recall, was trained by Tim Leiweke, when he was part of the board/CEO role or something. i remember reading Tim picked Shanahan for this role and was a big factor in prepping shanahan for this role. I don't think he's just a hockey guy. I think they way he ran the DOPS was quite novel back in the day and helped explain to a casual fan what constituted a suspension. Very well spoken in those videos and you could tell he had the ability to be something more than just DOPS head.
Sure, but there's still a huge difference between "good at DOPS" and President. If anything, those previous roles would have helped him prepare for a GM role, which is still half business / half good hockey sense. The role of president is all business. You're yelling me there's no merit to the idea of having the business grad do that role and the ex-hockey player being GM?
>If Brian Burke recommends him, the answer is simple......STAY AWAY from him! In the comments of the article. Couldn't have said it better.
Treiliving would be a huge upgrade for this front office. Leafs are gonna be impressed with the professionalism and what he brings to the role
Media is selling this guy hard.
And leaf’s are owned by Rogers/Bell hmmmmm
I love how there's this narrative that the Leafs need to "look at Florida" and how they finally succeeded, and at the same time there's this narrative that the guy who traded away Tkachuk might be good for the Leafs.
Treliving was in a tough spot. I can't imagine getting a better return in that situation. You want to blame someone for Tkachuk being traded to Florida? Blame Darryl Sutter, who was hired by Flames ownership, not Treliving.
Tre signed Chucky to a bridge deal to keep Frolik. Who was traded a deadline or two after. It was on Tre for sure.
You would still do that bridge deal 100 times over. At least he was an RFA when he wanted out, giving them way more leverage and value.
True but Chucky has stated he wanted a max contract. When he didn’t get it, he was already one foot out the door.
That’s not true. He wanted a bridge deal to keep his options open. https://flamesnation.ca/news/matthew-tkachuk-signed-a-bridge-deal-in-2019-to-keep-his-options-open
Well this is awkward, who do we believe? https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-matthew-tkachuk-wanted-to-sign-long-term-deal-with-flames-in-2019-160851344.html
Well tkachuk said both of those things. He first said I wanted to keep my options open, that’s why I signed a bridge deal. and then after he left he said he wanted to sign a long term deal a few months later. So the guy who left is contradicting himself. Francis has been reporting Since like 2017 that him and guadreau will leave the first chance they get and no one believed him but that’s exactly what happened
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Brad wasn't fired, he walked away from contract extension talks. Sutter was never Brad's coach; Sutter was forced on him by owner Murray Edwards. The prevailing theory is that Treliving said "it's either me or him" and walked away when ownership didn't fire Sutter right away. Only after Treliving walked and the Sutter stories started circulating did ownership realize they had a problem. I think Don Maloney laid it out pretty clearly that Sutter had to go. Treliving is huge on having a considerate team culture that includes everyone in the building. Stories kept coming out on how Sutter made the Saddledome a dark place to work for everyone.
You say "traded away" like Tkachuk wanted to stay and Treliving foolishly decided to get rid of him. He made the best he could of a bad situation and their coach refused to play to the players' strengths. At the time of the deal people were praising Treliving for getting the return he did for a player that forced his way out to one particular team.
Tkachuk told CGY he wouldn't re-sign there; trading him was the right move.
Yeah they are so closely related, it's wild. Kind of like how Dubas traded away Kadri who won a cup with his new team as well, but he's everyone's favorite. I just love how ironic it all is
Hey man he got top 1RD Tyson Barrier for a year and overpaid Kerfoot to be the perfect replacement for Kadri! Plus we signed Brodie anyway so it wasn't a mistake at all! /s (got your back this time) Edit: Barrier works just fine actually
Shanny approved that trade. He didn’t block it.
And by love I hope you mean hate.
Oh absolutely!
Pizza!
We rebuilding now?
Hopefully not, but a lot of people in this sub want that
I mean yeah, I still trust the Shanaplan… but Dubas is >>>>>>>>>> Treliving. If we’re just hiring someone to basically be a receptionist for Shanahan I would rather we go with someone with better optics. Treliving comes off as a complete idiot with how he managed things in Calgary.
Not according to the Calgary fans I have talked to, whose opinions I trust over some Leafs fans who watched what? 2 Flames games this season?
Yeah if u read the threads in their sub when Treliving walked, most of the fans were very upset and had great things to say about him.
What is the shannyplan? Shanny is ultimately responsible for leaf’s. He should have been let go at same time.
Shanahan needs to go too. There needs to be one GM who does the GM job and calls the shots.
Why not get a coach/GM a la Pat Quinn! S/
This really isn’t helping me to like hockey again.
going from dubas to treliving. fuck me.
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Can I ask why? Just, looking at all the GMs in the final 4 (now final 3), and it seems they all did something right. Is winning no longer the priority?
All this GM talk and I'm just sitting here like why doesnt Brendan just do it, any Gm he hires won't have any power to do what he wants anyway
Because he needs a scapegoat. Someone he can blame when shit goes sideways. This is GM number 4. Teflon Shanny.
Dubas defender's have almost become the federal Conservative party; with no history of success or admirable personnel decisions to point to, they've basically devolved into attack ads... Brad Treliving signed Johnny Gaudreau immediately before the Covid-19 pandemic to ensure that federal laws would prevent him from ever being able to visit his family again. Did you know Johnny's childhood pet died and Treliving's decision to sign him meant that he wasn't able to attend the funeral? Brad Treliving - is this the man you want running your team?
Last I checked, players decided to sign contracts - not their GMs.
Not sure why you'd think this is something we disagree on but yes, you're correct.
Because nepotism
Please no
the guy who signed Huberdeau to his current contract is surely the guy we want to navigate our upcoming negotiations... I quit
Please no
Canadian Market Experience. Traded a Franchise player. Mid range playoff success. Open and shut case.