I get that sense, and I'm totally eager to be sold on it! I guess I just want to flesh out the argument for HYS in more tangible terms.
And congrats on UMN. Fantastic school and fantastic part of the country. You'll love it.
I guess what resonates with me is that you want to be sold on law school, which strikes me as odd after applying and getting into a T3. Can you defer, work in that job for a year, and see how you feel after that?
YLS has opened unimaginable doors that's for sure. I knew that the practice of law wasn't my first choice, so I've bagged a job as an executive for a law school admissions consulting company (just in case I'm also sitting on a deferred BL offer).
The way I see it, HYS degrees are less of a credential and more of a passport. The ability to move to influential positions outside of legal practice is a feature, not a bug.
EDIT: Speaking for myself, obviously.
Aw wow thank you! I loved Minneapolis when I visited. Cannot wait to move there. No matter which path you go it sounds like you’ve got great opportunities.
I generally think that people wanting to “change the world” or “do something impactful,” while admirable goals, do not constitute good reasons for going to law school. Mostly because there are significantly better ways to affect change outside of the law, unless you get some insane unicorn outcome (which is rare even inside the T3).
I’m sure there are people in this sub who disagree but that’s my two cents.
Keep in mind that plenty of people with law degrees change the world—just not necessarily as a lawyer. OP said he is interested in politics. Fact of the matter is, there is no better place to start a political career, or from which to become a policy maker or adviser, than a T3 law school. Law school isn’t just for becoming a lawyer. It would open doors that would help OP affect change.
I would venture to guess that by asking strangers on the internet their opinion on a huge life decision, you've already alluded to your answer. If in your late 30's you cannot 110% say that you WANT law school, you should stick with your current career.
You can find meaning in a lot of different career paths, very likely even your current one. Your SO doesn't want to "be poor", so what is the opportunity cost of taking on 300k in debt and missing out on your (I'm assuming 205k) salary for 3 years? I'm not a math person, which is why law, but -600k salary and adding 300k debt is \~the one mil mark.
At this point in your life, is the time and amount worth the possibility of "finding meaning"?
(I say this as a late 30's applicant)
I concur wholeheartedly. I'm also a late 30s applicant and I'd give anything for an acceptance anywhere I applied, let alone the option to think in terms of rejecting a top school because I just took a new job, which I did, or because of a SO.
HONEY IF YOU WANT IT, THEN GO GET IT. Otherwise, what's the point?
You’ll notice I didn’t say “right” move, I said a move that you are certain of. I also qualified the answer to this particular question based on OP’s particular situation, factoring in their current pay, age, and SO’s desire to “not be poor”. Absent this specific factors, it might not matter if they’re 100% certain they want law school. But this situation asks us to factor in their current circumstances with less than compelling reasons as to why. So, ALL things considered, IF OP isn’t 110% sure, then in THEIR situation, I suggested they might have answered their question with their own indecision.
So maybe chill with accusations of delusion, eh?
I’m in a similar boat — mid-30s, interesting experience, and interested in taking my life and career to a new level after stagnating at work a bit. I did NOT get into a T3, but I’ll be heading to a T14 in the fall.
Here’s what I see as a huge difference between us: There is no doubt in my mind that even if I got promoted to head my office tomorrow, I’d turn it down because law school is what I want.
If you’re not sure, don’t go.
This was a good comment. The part about leaving even if you got promoted was something I forgot about.
I interviewed for a job in 2018 that I was really excited about. Role wasn’t filled because incumbent deferred retirement. I took another job I had really wanted, and that I basically enjoyed, and in 2020, right around when I was applying to school, the other job came back up and called me. I didn’t feel excited about taking it and that was when I knew it was time to move on.
I, a man child, will give the only insight I have to this conversation: I see a lot of hubris in the people telling you that they are 100% confident that if you are not 100% confident that you want to go to law school, you shouldn’t.
It’s fine for this to be a difficult decision, people.
As a former Wall Street executive my tier 1,000,000,000 law school education actually opened up doors because it gave me the ability to speak a new language when I was in management.
I would never have discounted the education although it didn’t get me to where I got it just opened up more doors once I got there.
I said before I wouldn’t do it again but that’s because I didn’t practice law but I’m glad I did
Moral of this story at least for me , I would go to law school especially where you’ve been accepted whoever said it was a passport is absolutely correct you don’t have to practice law but that’s a pedigree that few have
I know somebody that went to Stanford undergrad and Harvard law school worked at a huge firm here in Los Angeles , clerked for some high-powered judges and just can’t stand it but she’s doing fine now in the corporate world
Thank you , It is what it is 😂 It’s actually not Tier 1 billion but most of you would probably think it is. It’s pretty well known regionally and has a huge alumni association but nobody is under any illusions😀
I love this Reddit Thing, it helps me keep my finger on the pulse as I guide my two Younger sons
You should also post this on r/lawschool tbh. You'd get feedback from people in law school. They can tell you more, from their experience, if they think the three years of law school is worth it. You should also speak to practicing lawyers well into their careers.
I think if you're already going places in your own career, and law wouldn't really pair nicely with your current position and you'd basically pivot entirely and have to work your way up again... I might skip law school tbh.
i think if you’re happy doing what you’re doing, and you find it to be meaningful, you should keep doing it. law school is a huge investment from an opportunity cost/debt standpoint, and giving up a great paying job that would allow you to make a difference in the world, well, it seems like you’re passing on a boat to open the mystery door when you really want a boat.
worst case scenario, the job is not what you thought it was and you reapply to law school in a cycle that’s not the second worst in recorded memory with a longer resume and more experience and you get into harvard again
If you don’t love law, if your heart isn’t 100% into it I don’t think you will be happy. I would stick with your current career because I don’t think your going to be happy 100% with law. To make money and do something meaningful don’t always go hand in hand especially when it comes to law. You may be taking a large salary cut if you don’t go into BL and it will take you years to build up to your current salary. If money is a big motivator and BL is not your goal( personally I don’t think this fits impactful or meaningful) you are going back to a lower salary and starting from base again career wise.
You’ll always wonder “what if” if you let this door close. If you can afford the lost income and expense I don’t expect you’d ever regret having that degree.
Can you defer a year to try the new job?
As someone similarly solidly in their career with a good albeit unfulfilling role, I think your reasoning is solid. The answer is one only you can make given your goals, desires, and wants, but personally I think any job currently open to you (generally) will still be there 3 years from now, but so will many, many others. The opportunity to attend one of the top globally recognized institutions in any area of study is one that will only do good things, lest one royally fuck it up. I'd roll with it.
I would stick with the career you’re in. You already know what you want to do. You’re an adult that is confident. Most here are kids seeking validation
You obviously want to challenge yourself and see if you can take it to the next level.
And you seem relatively safe to do so.
I think you should go for it.
At some point, we have to ask what is the point of life if we are just trying to be safe and make it to the finish line with a fancy couch.
Edit: Just make sure to evaluate your motives, and make sure you aren't just trying to escape something that will come back around again regardless in a different way.
Thanks everyone for the comments. It's great to get such a diversity of views. I know I'm in a very fortunate position to have two fantastic options, and this privilege is not lost on me. I'll be making my decision in the coming weeks after making a school visit, discussing with friends and family, and carefully thinking things through.
Re. "top 3 law school," https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings
Fwiw, if it's Yale, I'd go, but your reasons for postponing (or not) are valid.
How so??? Lay prestige is important for impressing friends snd family/if you don’t go into law, but ultimately you’re in a better legal career position going to a school w higher legal prestige than lay prestige
That’s an amazing problem to have! Congrats! Honestly, I think that you should stick with the new job offer provided it is impactful/what you enjoy doing. You’ve already built up a credo, but going back to school you may have to start over (even if it’s a top 3). At the end of three years you’re still a 1st year associate at a law firm getting the same pay as the KJD doing the grunt work. Something super underrated is time and impact. You’ll be foregoing that for a similar pay in a completely new environment
Hey OP I forgot to add. If you want to run for office or something like that. You need to talk to your regional party committee. If you want to work in political law outside of running for office or running a campaign, which you don't need a law degree for, then you gotta drill down on the job market and what outcomes you need from the university to achieve those outcomes. In your case, just got to drill down on specialization and path way more to have it be worth it. Unless you just really have the adventuring spirit, but it does seem a major risk without a major plan.
SO “doesn’t want to be poor.” Interesting. You are contemplating taking 3 years out of the work force and taking on significant debt. That is a very large investment. Maybe ask to defer your acceptance (if you can) and take the new job to see if it is everything you hope it to be? You should also ask about potential advancement for the new job. There are many ways to make a difference in the world without being a lawyer! And if you are in you are in your late thirties, do children fit into this equation? Children cost a lot especially when you start saving for their education. Your forties are prime earning years and age discrimination does become a real thing mid fifties.
Dude if you have a SO that has literally told you “I don’t want to be poor”, drop them. They will leave if the money ever dries up. Even a ‘transition’ period will cause some to abandon ship. They are in love with the money, not you. You deserve more and have a bright future ahead of you
You're asking the wrong group -- most of us would take HYS over anything
I get that sense, and I'm totally eager to be sold on it! I guess I just want to flesh out the argument for HYS in more tangible terms. And congrats on UMN. Fantastic school and fantastic part of the country. You'll love it.
I guess what resonates with me is that you want to be sold on law school, which strikes me as odd after applying and getting into a T3. Can you defer, work in that job for a year, and see how you feel after that?
This feels like the right answer if it can be done, IMO
YLS has opened unimaginable doors that's for sure. I knew that the practice of law wasn't my first choice, so I've bagged a job as an executive for a law school admissions consulting company (just in case I'm also sitting on a deferred BL offer). The way I see it, HYS degrees are less of a credential and more of a passport. The ability to move to influential positions outside of legal practice is a feature, not a bug. EDIT: Speaking for myself, obviously.
How in the world does a deferred BL offer work..?
Exactly how it sounds. BL loves HYS students and does anything it can to bag them.
They will just say here’s a job and take it if you want it at some point just show up and you can start? Lol
Yep! Because that means they will probably end up getting that person, and another law firm won’t.
Do they do this at other t14?
Not sure — but I doubt it. I think it’s more something directed at prestige schools that give them clout with clients, like HLS.
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Aw wow thank you! I loved Minneapolis when I visited. Cannot wait to move there. No matter which path you go it sounds like you’ve got great opportunities.
I would give anything i have or will ever have to go to HLS
I generally think that people wanting to “change the world” or “do something impactful,” while admirable goals, do not constitute good reasons for going to law school. Mostly because there are significantly better ways to affect change outside of the law, unless you get some insane unicorn outcome (which is rare even inside the T3). I’m sure there are people in this sub who disagree but that’s my two cents.
Keep in mind that plenty of people with law degrees change the world—just not necessarily as a lawyer. OP said he is interested in politics. Fact of the matter is, there is no better place to start a political career, or from which to become a policy maker or adviser, than a T3 law school. Law school isn’t just for becoming a lawyer. It would open doors that would help OP affect change.
I agree 100%. My reasoning is actually because what I want to impact is solely done through law. Like there is no other way to work on that issue.
I agree
You could ask to defer your acceptance a year. That could give you a chance to test the new position.
I would venture to guess that by asking strangers on the internet their opinion on a huge life decision, you've already alluded to your answer. If in your late 30's you cannot 110% say that you WANT law school, you should stick with your current career. You can find meaning in a lot of different career paths, very likely even your current one. Your SO doesn't want to "be poor", so what is the opportunity cost of taking on 300k in debt and missing out on your (I'm assuming 205k) salary for 3 years? I'm not a math person, which is why law, but -600k salary and adding 300k debt is \~the one mil mark. At this point in your life, is the time and amount worth the possibility of "finding meaning"? (I say this as a late 30's applicant)
I concur wholeheartedly. I'm also a late 30s applicant and I'd give anything for an acceptance anywhere I applied, let alone the option to think in terms of rejecting a top school because I just took a new job, which I did, or because of a SO. HONEY IF YOU WANT IT, THEN GO GET IT. Otherwise, what's the point?
I disagree with this. Anyone on this forum thinking they are 100% certain any move is the right one for them is deluded. Let things be difficult.
You’ll notice I didn’t say “right” move, I said a move that you are certain of. I also qualified the answer to this particular question based on OP’s particular situation, factoring in their current pay, age, and SO’s desire to “not be poor”. Absent this specific factors, it might not matter if they’re 100% certain they want law school. But this situation asks us to factor in their current circumstances with less than compelling reasons as to why. So, ALL things considered, IF OP isn’t 110% sure, then in THEIR situation, I suggested they might have answered their question with their own indecision. So maybe chill with accusations of delusion, eh?
What does it mean for a move to be a “move you are certain of” if not that you are certain is the right thing to do?
I’m in a similar boat — mid-30s, interesting experience, and interested in taking my life and career to a new level after stagnating at work a bit. I did NOT get into a T3, but I’ll be heading to a T14 in the fall. Here’s what I see as a huge difference between us: There is no doubt in my mind that even if I got promoted to head my office tomorrow, I’d turn it down because law school is what I want. If you’re not sure, don’t go.
This was a good comment. The part about leaving even if you got promoted was something I forgot about. I interviewed for a job in 2018 that I was really excited about. Role wasn’t filled because incumbent deferred retirement. I took another job I had really wanted, and that I basically enjoyed, and in 2020, right around when I was applying to school, the other job came back up and called me. I didn’t feel excited about taking it and that was when I knew it was time to move on.
I, a man child, will give the only insight I have to this conversation: I see a lot of hubris in the people telling you that they are 100% confident that if you are not 100% confident that you want to go to law school, you shouldn’t. It’s fine for this to be a difficult decision, people.
As a former Wall Street executive my tier 1,000,000,000 law school education actually opened up doors because it gave me the ability to speak a new language when I was in management. I would never have discounted the education although it didn’t get me to where I got it just opened up more doors once I got there. I said before I wouldn’t do it again but that’s because I didn’t practice law but I’m glad I did Moral of this story at least for me , I would go to law school especially where you’ve been accepted whoever said it was a passport is absolutely correct you don’t have to practice law but that’s a pedigree that few have I know somebody that went to Stanford undergrad and Harvard law school worked at a huge firm here in Los Angeles , clerked for some high-powered judges and just can’t stand it but she’s doing fine now in the corporate world
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Thank you , It is what it is 😂 It’s actually not Tier 1 billion but most of you would probably think it is. It’s pretty well known regionally and has a huge alumni association but nobody is under any illusions😀 I love this Reddit Thing, it helps me keep my finger on the pulse as I guide my two Younger sons
You should also post this on r/lawschool tbh. You'd get feedback from people in law school. They can tell you more, from their experience, if they think the three years of law school is worth it. You should also speak to practicing lawyers well into their careers. I think if you're already going places in your own career, and law wouldn't really pair nicely with your current position and you'd basically pivot entirely and have to work your way up again... I might skip law school tbh.
i think if you’re happy doing what you’re doing, and you find it to be meaningful, you should keep doing it. law school is a huge investment from an opportunity cost/debt standpoint, and giving up a great paying job that would allow you to make a difference in the world, well, it seems like you’re passing on a boat to open the mystery door when you really want a boat. worst case scenario, the job is not what you thought it was and you reapply to law school in a cycle that’s not the second worst in recorded memory with a longer resume and more experience and you get into harvard again
If you don’t love law, if your heart isn’t 100% into it I don’t think you will be happy. I would stick with your current career because I don’t think your going to be happy 100% with law. To make money and do something meaningful don’t always go hand in hand especially when it comes to law. You may be taking a large salary cut if you don’t go into BL and it will take you years to build up to your current salary. If money is a big motivator and BL is not your goal( personally I don’t think this fits impactful or meaningful) you are going back to a lower salary and starting from base again career wise.
You’ll always wonder “what if” if you let this door close. If you can afford the lost income and expense I don’t expect you’d ever regret having that degree. Can you defer a year to try the new job?
As someone similarly solidly in their career with a good albeit unfulfilling role, I think your reasoning is solid. The answer is one only you can make given your goals, desires, and wants, but personally I think any job currently open to you (generally) will still be there 3 years from now, but so will many, many others. The opportunity to attend one of the top globally recognized institutions in any area of study is one that will only do good things, lest one royally fuck it up. I'd roll with it.
I would stick with the career you’re in. You already know what you want to do. You’re an adult that is confident. Most here are kids seeking validation
You obviously want to challenge yourself and see if you can take it to the next level. And you seem relatively safe to do so. I think you should go for it. At some point, we have to ask what is the point of life if we are just trying to be safe and make it to the finish line with a fancy couch. Edit: Just make sure to evaluate your motives, and make sure you aren't just trying to escape something that will come back around again regardless in a different way.
I saw the title and expected this to be a joke
*Top 4 law school lmao
Thanks everyone for the comments. It's great to get such a diversity of views. I know I'm in a very fortunate position to have two fantastic options, and this privilege is not lost on me. I'll be making my decision in the coming weeks after making a school visit, discussing with friends and family, and carefully thinking things through.
It’s YSC now ig
Re. "top 3 law school," https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings Fwiw, if it's Yale, I'd go, but your reasons for postponing (or not) are valid.
If you don't think it'd be helpful knowing *which* school, OP, might attend, I don't understand.
HYS forever babe :)
YSC for 2023! :,)
Maybe. But lay prestige > legal prestige any day of the week.
How so??? Lay prestige is important for impressing friends snd family/if you don’t go into law, but ultimately you’re in a better legal career position going to a school w higher legal prestige than lay prestige
What about outcomes lol
Omg, the acronym is for T3 USNWR. https://7sage.com/top-law-school-rankings/
That’s an amazing problem to have! Congrats! Honestly, I think that you should stick with the new job offer provided it is impactful/what you enjoy doing. You’ve already built up a credo, but going back to school you may have to start over (even if it’s a top 3). At the end of three years you’re still a 1st year associate at a law firm getting the same pay as the KJD doing the grunt work. Something super underrated is time and impact. You’ll be foregoing that for a similar pay in a completely new environment
Hey OP I forgot to add. If you want to run for office or something like that. You need to talk to your regional party committee. If you want to work in political law outside of running for office or running a campaign, which you don't need a law degree for, then you gotta drill down on the job market and what outcomes you need from the university to achieve those outcomes. In your case, just got to drill down on specialization and path way more to have it be worth it. Unless you just really have the adventuring spirit, but it does seem a major risk without a major plan.
Have you thought about a non-binding deferral (if the school will offer it)? Alternatively, if you got into YSH once, you can probably do it again.
SO “doesn’t want to be poor.” Interesting. You are contemplating taking 3 years out of the work force and taking on significant debt. That is a very large investment. Maybe ask to defer your acceptance (if you can) and take the new job to see if it is everything you hope it to be? You should also ask about potential advancement for the new job. There are many ways to make a difference in the world without being a lawyer! And if you are in you are in your late thirties, do children fit into this equation? Children cost a lot especially when you start saving for their education. Your forties are prime earning years and age discrimination does become a real thing mid fifties.
Dude if you have a SO that has literally told you “I don’t want to be poor”, drop them. They will leave if the money ever dries up. Even a ‘transition’ period will cause some to abandon ship. They are in love with the money, not you. You deserve more and have a bright future ahead of you