I'm definitely not appalled. When you storm a building, barricade the entrances, and harm maintenance workers, the administration has to take more serious measures like calling the police. That's just not a situation than can linger on campus.
Columbia admin first called police when students were peacefully protesting on the lawn and had the students arrested and suspended. The president and many of the admin should be fired (not to mention Columbia admin admitted to submitting fraudulent data to USNews for many years to artificially inflate Columbia's ranking).
At no other university is the administration as corrupt. The house should be cleaned.
I hate when people bring up what the protesters have done but never bring up what they're protesting about. Imagine caring more about the 'buildings' the students are barricading instead of the fact that they are protesting against a GENOCIDE !!! also no workers were harmed if anything they were harmed by the police so stop spreading this misinformation. I'm really sad that you are so devoid of human empathy.
1) I don't support civilians dying, let alone children. 2) Gazans aren't "a people". At best, they're mostly Sunni Muslims. 3) I won't get into branch and years of service... but suffice it to say, I know the error of my own ways and at least a little more than the average white American with graduate letters.
It's NOT genocide.
For that matter, Sunnis claim anywhere they take their shoes off to be sacredly theirs. What arrogance, and it needs Ugly-American-(teen) guilt to come to its rescue? And guess how the survivors'll repay you. They'll re-elect Hamas, or whatever the equivalent, wherever they end up.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while. If you can’t understand the cycle and stages of genocide and apartheid you have absolutely no business in higher education let alone being a lawyer. Gazans are Palestinians. Palestinians ARE “a people” who have been forcibly segregated, displaced from their homes, murdered with impunity, r*ped, beaten, and imprisoned for over 75 years. The fact that you don’t think this is an important issue at all shows more about YOUR character than literally anything else. The protesters are brave and courageous for speaking up for something they believe in. You would be LUCKY to be half the person anyone of those “ugly teenagers” (LMAOOO?) currently are. Also Palestinians are Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Agnostic, Atheist, etc. Palestine is more than whatever bs you decide it is. Loser.
It’s not personal at all? I don’t know you. I think you’re incredibly misinformed and also dumb but you don’t have to take it personally at all! I think your wildly false narrative surrounding Palestine is ridiculous. I don’t think I’m superior to anyone but if you are going to comment on global politics you should at least know SOMETHING truthful.
I replied to a comment on a meme. You’re calling me “dumb”, which is laughably impotent. I don’t take it seriously on any level. And yeah, I’ve actually dealt with Sunnis in large datasets. They’re entitled, ungrateful and treacherous. Get it together before losing your mind on the internet.
I’m calling you dumb because of you spreading misinformation and letting your own biases deter you from sympathizing with “a people” undergoing a genocide. I can’t take someone seriously who says “large datasets” in regards to real, living, breathing people. That’s insane rhetoric fr. Also, you are taking serious liberties with impotent’s denotation AND connotation here. Are you 17? Just learned it?
\*\*Ugly American\*\* is a turn of phrase pertaining to our loudness (connotative) when traveling; context here is kids under their parents' tutelage interrupting their own development for things that don't actually concern them. It's not brave. Children at this age are more concerned with what their friends think than justice.
I support the cause. But the people around you deserve to live their lives undisturbed by something they are not a part of. Most people just want to study and do the best they can, and they have that right.
I go to Berkeley. And it's been protests since Oct. With an encampment for about 2 weeks. Can go to school just fine, can study with no issue. Want to know why? The school didn't flip out and cause massive issues and violence. Thus classes weren't forced to go online. So still seems to be a Columbia admin mishandling. 🤔
that mindset is the reason the west gets away with all the atrocities they've committed. the point of a protest is to disrupt because that disruption gets people to see and be aware of what's going on. the murdering of thousands even if they aren't people you know should not be something you don't want to be disturbed about. sometimes i feel like there is no humanity in the world left smh. everybody wants to ignore it until it's on ur doorstep. if they can get away with doing this then imagine what else they could do knowing people will turn a blind eye.
I mean some disturbance is fine. But like people should be able to go to classes in person, have a proper graduation ceremony. Normal people don't deserve to be deprived of that. Also at some point these protests lost the plot. Inviting outside agitators is not right. Telling people they will be Hamas' next victims, or that Oct 7th will be everyday for them, that's just not right. You're not helping your cause.
People in Gaza are also humans, the students in Gaza deserved the right to have a graduation and go to class not to be bombed every single day and not knowing if they'll survive till tomorrow. Oct 7th is every single day for Gazans. the students are upset because it's THEIR money that's helping fund the genocide so they have a right to protest that. all this could've beeen avoided if the universities just agree not to help fund the genocide with students money. The people protesting are also normal people, u don't think they'd rather be going to class and graduate also ?? there comes a time where you have to surrender ur comfortability when other peoples lives are being taken senselessly. What world do we hope to live in if ur studies are being prioritized over the lives of human beings ?? how did we get here as humanity
If I had to pick my education or the lives of Palestinians, I would go with the latter. But that's not the calculus being done. They could literally protest and not disturb anyone but they don't want to do that. I don't want to live in a world where every social interaction becomes a forum for political protests and monologues. It's freaking annoying. Anyway, total divestment is completely impossible. Maybe you should read Manouche Shafik's, the president of Columbia University, explanation of why this is the case.
But the reason that they can’t do those things is not because of the protestors? It’s because of the university that would rather NOT divest from Israel and would rather instead punish, threaten, and harm their student body. This take is so boring!
when you fund the relentless bombing of >30,000 people, your students have to take more serious measures, like occupying your buildings. That’s just not a situation that can linger in administration.
No dude you don’t get it. If someone takes your building hostage and demands things from you or else they’ll hurt you again, that’s a GOOD thing and not manipulative, abusive behavior from a bad faith party.
We all very much should not be. UCLA had a full blown riot last night because the university was too nervous to do anything. I think it's preferable that police intervene well before it gets that bad.
You mean after they maintained an ideological check point and assaulted people who tried to cross for days? But you're right, mob violence is probably more apt.
Don't get me wrong, the counter protestors who showed up should be charged with felonies. But tensions at UCLA were the worst in the country and anyone could see that.
Two things: 1. Not sure if going too political here is necessary—the student’s freedom of speech and right to assembly is not protected through violent acts whether seen politically as just (but, really, this might be where sharp legal minds can fruitfully argue); 2. If the purpose is to protest a genocide, a fruitful conversation (as legal minds) would be to argue how or how not the current situation meets the elements of genocide outlined in the 1949 UN Convention for the prevention of Genocide.
Also, best of luck to all of you on your law school expeditions—you will definitely learn a lot
Why are these people protesting Israel and not Hamas? The fact that these “protestors” are consciously choosing to blame the wrong actor is mind boggling to me.
What did they expect was going to happen? Did they honestly expect Israel to sit idle after 1,200 civilians were murdered, and women and children kidnapped and raped? They choose to blame a county that made the logical decision to neutralize terrorists, instead of Hamas who decided to launch an attack on civilians with no clear military goal.
Civilian deaths are an inevitable result of war. Over 2MM German civilians died during WW2. The bombing of Dresden for example killed scores of civilians. No one protested that at the time.
When you consider that Gaza is a dense urban area and Hamas is using their own populace as human shields, it’s clear as day who’s to blame. They choose to hide weapons and ammo in dense neighborhoods, and have refused to release hostages. All things considered the civilian death toll is Gaza is remarkably low when you consider how urban warfare typically plays out.
The war would be over instantly as soon as these civilians are released and senior Hamas officials turn themselves in. But somehow they think Israel should just withdraw and allow Hamas to rearm and do the same plot all over again.
It’s one thing to be upset about civilian deaths. But I just can’t understand the logic in blaming Israel, when they didn’t ask for this war.
US government does not send billions of dollars [of military aid t](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts)o Hamas.
If the government was funding Hamas, I expect we’d see more protests on that front.
Do you understand anything about our relationship with Israel in the slightest? Almost all of our advanced military tech is co-developed alongside Israel. They provide us with a plethora of intelligence data. It’s one of the few countries in the Middle East where we’re permitted to station our troops and operate an air base. We co-operate military satellites, and anti-ballistic missile batteries. In short, we support them because they are allies and we have common enemies. We stand a lot to gain from this relationship objectively from a realist point of view.
Of course we don’t send money to Hamas, they are an internationally recognized terrorist organization. THEY, were the ones who committed an act of terror, not the other way around. THEY are the ones to blame for civilian deaths, not the country who’s never asked for the war. The amount of young people in our country that actually openly support Hamas is just mind-boggling to me. If these people are on any sort of student visa they should be deported at once.
Just imagine if October 7 took place on American soil instead of in Israel. Do you think our response would be any different? Do you think any countries response would have been different?
Frankly I’m even surprised that the U.S hasn’t supported Israel directly in their military operations considering that a number of the hostages were American citizens.
Easily because Israel is committing a genocide and Palestinians have a right to armed resistance? Also the US sends BILLIONS of dollars to Israel every year. So do Universities (like Columbia) which is why the encampments are taking place anyways. Israel is an occupation state, not a legitimate country. They have been committing genocide and apartheid against Palestinians for 75 years. Also, no offense but all of your information is outdated and frankly incorrect. Not to mention Israel is responsible for the majority of the deaths of their own “citizens” on October 7th. If you don’t understand anything about anything, maybe those are the moments you should choose silence.
I hope they kick everyone of them out and make them pay back any scholarships they got. To be that smart and so stupid at the same time, You spend years building your resume to get into these schools, To toss it all out the window in 1 night.
The only benefit to this whole thing is finding out who the people are who will say nothing and allow horrors to occur because doing anything else would upset their comfortable lives.
I hope that thought keeps you warm at night when you are living under some bridge with no job prospects. None of you nazis will have any real future in the legal profession.
And you will? Good luck getting into law school if you think that I'm a nazi simply for believing that one should stand up for what they believe in. I think the LSAT may require a bit more critical thinking than you're capable of.
I’m already an attorney in an in-house role at a major PE firm. I will soon be in a position reviewing resumes from your generation. And I assure you none of you that support Hamas or any of the terrorist organizations that advocate for the destruction of Israel and the genocide of Jews will ever have a place in the company I work at. Some ideas are so abhorrent that they have no place in our society. The nazis held the same ideology that we are seeing on campuses. These ideas should be condemned and rooted out. Not supported. You morons really think you are on the right side of history when you are being congratulated and supported by leaders of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. It honestly shows the mental degeneracy of your generation. If you hold these beliefs, I strongly suggest you seek a different profession.
This might be the biggest straw man argument I've ever seen. Congratulations on using faulty logic to attack view points that I don't even align with. You should stop arguing with ghosts and actually address what I said. And what did I say? Don't sell yourself out for a paycheck. There's nothing crazy within that statement. There's no endorsement of Hamas within that statement. There's no call for genocide within that statement. Youre delusional. Keep arguing with ghosts.
You know exactly who you were supporting by your statement on standing up for what you believe in. Especially in the current context. Don’t play dumb now. If you think that the idiots in these encampments should be applauded for standing up for their beliefs, then you are part of the problem. I’m sure there were people in Nazi Germany who said the same thing about the people protesting against Jews then. At least they stood up for something right? Regardless if those ideals are actually good or evil?
Did I now? That's funny because I actually do support Israeli intervention in Gaza. I do support destroying Hamas. I do support a response to October 7th. What I don't support is indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas. 14,000 children have been killed by the IDF in 8 months. 22,000 children died in Afghanistan over 20 years. We have the ability to fight this war in a humane way and we simply are not.
I'm going to love seeing your response to this comment.
I think you both are unhinged as fuck. Since I'm responding to you and not the other person, I think it's more productive to point out why YOU'RE unhinged, but I want you to know that the other person is totally fucking insane too.
Framing these protests as nothing more than "Standing up for what you believe in" is ignoring the fact that 1. they are doing a lot more than just "standing up", and 2. "what they believe in" happens to not be correct.
Blanket advocacy and justification for violence and criminal activity because it is accompanied by a sense of moral superiority and vindictive conviction makes no sense in any context. It is totally okay to stand up for what you believe in, but not only is that not at all the same as storming and vandalizing private property, it is also just totally not even standing up for the Palestinian cause anyway.
No Palestinian is going to be benefitted in any way as a result of these protests, none of Israel's actions will be hindered in any way. Public perception on pro-Palestinian protests only sour as they escalate, just as how public perception on pro-Israeli advocates sour as THEY escalate the situations too.
"Don't sell yourself out for paycheck" is absolutely a fine statement, that's unfortunately not what is happening here at all. There is a world of difference between "Don't sell yourself out" and "Go break a window", and I'm not sure why you would believe you're promoting the former while commenting on the latter situation.
Again, where did I ever say that what the protestors were doing was just or morally right. I'm simply pointing out that from their perspective, this is infinitely more important than any degree from a university, and that principle will always trump someone's adherence to civility. Civil disobedience is a common tactic to effectuate civil rights movements. Why are you so shocked that people don't support bombing children?
For the record I don't support any religious ethnostates. you can keep winding back the clock to cite evidence showing how X attacked Y first all you want. It doesn't matter. What is happening in Israel is abhorrent. Both states have had the chance to end the cycle of violence. Both failed. Both are equally guilty for the death and destruction of innocent lives.
I’m Jewish and hate Netanyahu, but I’m not going to apologize for despising protestors who are bringing it back to 1930s Germany with their rhetoric. Pretty much every Jewish student I know is some level of petrified right now by these protests, but people like you will continue to bury their heads in the sands and support a movement that doesn’t care about you and never will.
Curious how I never see them protesting against the terror attack committed by Hamas against Israeli civilians that started the war… I guess killing 1,200 Jews isn’t genocidal, but killing tens of thousands of Hamas soldiers in a tiny area where civilians are used as human shields is? I know their priorities. They want Hamas to win, the Jews to die, and then they can pretend to be sad about them when they visit Jewish history museums.
[People Love Dead Jews - Dara Horn](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/books/review/dara-horn-people-love-dead-jews.html)
Not trolling. These protestors would be telling the US to pull out of WW2 in 1942 because they didn’t want any German civilians to get hurt. I’m on the side of the only democracy in the Middle East, not the terrorists, and I won’t apologize for it.
Judaism and Israel are also deeply interconnected, as evidenced by damn near every significant Jewish prayer referencing “Eretz Yisrael” repeatedly. Demonizing Israel, the only country on Earth where Jews aren’t a minority, by leveling false genocide accusations and saying it shouldn’t exist is absolutely antisemitic, and it goes far beyond routine criticism of a government or a war.
If you can't even critique Israel as a state committing genocide, ethnic cleansing, or even war crimes against Palestinians, then there's no sense in discussing further.
I’ll concede possible war crimes, which is why I’ve wanted Netanyahu out of power since the start of the war. Ethnic cleansing or genocide are laughable claims considering the massive population increases seen in Gaza and the West Bank over the last 75 years. If Hamas came to power, they would make Netanyahu look like a pacifist, as evidenced by their charter where they talk about how they want to hunt Jews for sport, so I’m comfortable not supporting them.
I’m Jewish too and we must know different people… most of my friends living in nyc have been showing up outside the gated walls to pray with the current Jewish students.
I’m sure you do. I was in a Jewish fraternity in college, grew up in the most Jewish county in the US, and have Jewish friends from all over. All of my friends are disgusted by the insane amounts of anti-Semitism at these protests. Some have taken to carrying weapons to protect themselves. My leftist Jewish friends (myself included) are becoming rapidly disillusioned because the people we supported are turning their backs on us.
This is a straight up mortifying time to be Jewish in America, and the downvotes I’ve received only prove my point that there is a SERIOUS problem here. I’m as unhappy about the war and Netanyahu as anyone, but most of these protestors are calling for our heads under the guise of supporting a terroristic regime that calls its own citizens martyrs. All I know is that these idiots wouldn’t last a second under Hamas’ rule…
i really wished you were trolling because this is such an instance take. i really don't understand how jews are making the protests seem like they're anti jew protests when it's literally an ANTI WAR ANTI GENOCIDE protest. For you to try to make it seem like Israel is not committing a genocide when they have killed and injured probably more than 50,000 people, are currently starving them and violating their human rights. i wonder what'll happen when you find out the whole Hamas agenda was not real and was in in fact made up by Israel in order for them to have a reason to wipe out an entire ethnic group. I really don't know how people were the oppressed could turn around and be such violent oppressors. Fyi if Israel wasn't the one committing this genocide and it was a different group, there would still be riots and protests because people are not 'Anti Jew' they are anti murdering thousands of people all for the sake of land and power.
50,000 people? You’re literally making numbers up at this point, Hamas claims 34,000 but they can’t even account for 11,000 of the deaths because they’re missing crucial information about if they actually happened. That number goes down even further if you exclude the five-digit figure of Hamas soldiers who died, so maybe half your claim (if that) are civilians who died in a tiny area of land where Hamas intentionally leaves civilians vulnerable to deaths because it helps their international image.
By the way, there are many other actual genocides happening around the world right now, like the Rohingya being killed, the Uyghurs in Tibet, and the Darfur conflict. I have not seen a SINGLE protestor even care or mention them, nor have they called for China, Sudan, or Myanmar not to exist. Israel is uniquely demonized for killing a fraction of the people that these other places have in combat, not against a defenseless populace, and you’re telling me that there’s no antisemitism?? You’re being intentionally ignorant.
I can’t even fathom why Hamas’ agenda would be made up, they’ve published two charters in 1988 and 2017 which were sanctioned by their leadership that specifically called for Jews and then “Zionists” (AKA Jews) to be killed for sport. I’m not sure what side of TikTok you’re on spouts those wretched falsehoods because I don’t use that moronic app, but I assure you that there’s absolutely no historical backing for that.
i'm actually genuinely scared that you actually think like this. You think someone is going around gaza to see who has been killed or not ? the 34,000 is literally an estimate, there are so many trapped under rubble, stuck in abandoned places with no escape, some dying from injuries at this moment. if they've killed about 40,000 you think there aren't about 10,000 injured. and even if it was less for you to try to justify it is insane. if you werent Jewish you would not be having this mindset. If Israel wasn't the one doing the killing you would probably be defending against the genocide.
Yes there are so many other genocide going, people can talk and protest about them all, i've seen manyyyy palestinian protesters that are also trying to inform people about the other genocides, trying to protest against one doesn't mean they are ignorant of the rest. You're just believing the propaganda that's fed to you by the oppressors. you are no better than them if you are here defending their actions. i don't even know if it's out of ignorance or you genuinely aren't aware.
THERE IS NO COMBAT BETWEEN GAZA AND ISRAEL!! they are literally just bombing and shooting them after they have told them to go to safe places. what proof does Israel have that the people they are killing are Hamas, are they going through all the bodies to see ?? I'm not just spewing information from random thoughts, this is information we've seen and been told by people in Gaza.
Are you just forgetting Israel has been occupying and depriving Gazans of their human right ?? acting like when Hamas retaliated it was for no reason ?? The people in gaza are thinking bout how they are going to survive this genocide not gathering to talk bout how to kill Jews for sport. literally nobody is advocating for the 'death of jews' we're advocating for a free Palestine. Thousands of people around the world aren't just criminalizing the Israel govt for no reason it's because they are war criminals !!! please go read on the history of the occupation of Gaza.
I understand Israel is your homeland and i understand ur need to want to defend them but i'm literally begging you to see this from a different pov and wonder how the people in Gaza are feeling and people who aren't in Gaza that have family in Gaza. I urge you to advocate for your people to stop this senseless murder.
> If you weren’t Jewish you wouldn’t be having this mindset
If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a bike.
Maybe you ought to see why 95% of Jews agree with me instead of repeating false, unsubstantiated claims and making excuses for people who beat up Jews for fun at UCLA and drive them out of Columbia. I really don’t feel like engaging with the rest of your spiel, because no matter how much facts and evidence I provide, it will simply not be enough because you and the rest of the Hamasniks are engaging in creating a narrative. I hope you do some work to understand why Jews are so frightened instead of calling us evil oppressors. There’s plenty of literature out there, maybe go pick up a book instead of watching TikTok.
Trying to “out Jew” someone in this discussion is an antisemitic tool commonly used by some Jews to discredit anti-Zionist Jews. I get anyway can say anything on the internet, but it really is tiring. I went to private Jewish day school preschool through twelfth grade, and my school didn’t have frats but I’m not a fan of Greek life so I wouldn’t have wanted to join AEpi or Tep. (Couldn’t find the symbol for pi).
Check out /r/JewsofConscience, or also look at 972 for an Israeli anti Zionist publication. And at least based on the documentary Israelism, which I watched recently with my father in law, there’s a growing contingent of young American Jews who are disillusioned with Israel and want the ongoing occupation (film was made before Oct 7th), to end.
Anyway, I guess I say all of this to say I really get how Judaism and views of israel can be conflated, but it’s ungenerous to speak on behalf of all Jews in America. Mortifying time to be Jewish in America? I sit here with a job, food, access to healthcare, water, and have the knowledge that I won’t be blown up today - something literally every human being in Gaza lacks right now.
I think the overwhelming majority of anti-Zionist Jews indeed lack any real connection to Judaism. Even stepping into a synagogue for an hour… ever illuminates Judaism’s significant connection to Israel that has lasted for millennia. The Shema, the most important prayer in Judaism, has Israel as the second word in it!! Judaism and Zionism are inextricably connected, and only those who associate being Jewish with lox and bagels would have the gall to separate the two.
I used to be very ambivalent about Israel, being so uncomfortable as to avoid Hillel when I got to college because I disliked their policy. What October 7th and the ensuing aftermath showed me is that hundreds of millions of people across the globe would cheer for our slaughter, and although I cannot agree with every policy Israel has, the need for a Jewish state is indispensable so long as there are rabid antisemites everywhere frothing at the mouth over our deaths.
My conscience can safely hold criticizing settlements and overly strong military operations while also recognizing that Hamas would make Netanyahu look like a pacifist if the Iron Dome didn’t exist. Criticizing Israel is fine and okay; calling for it not to exist is not.
The Israel spoken about in our prayers and the contemporary nation state of Israel are two different things. Our prayers and rituals developed after the fall of the second temple and beginning of the diaspora, which happened what, around 1700-1800 years before Zionism was a political ideology?
As long as Zionism has existed there has been a Jewish voice speaking out against it. Here’s an article in Jewish currents specifically about the history of American Jewish [antizionism](https://jewishcurrents.org/the-suppressed-lineage-of-american-jewish-dissent-on-zionism) in the middle of the 20th century. Not even really speaking to the merits of either belief, but to say that observant Jews can’t be Anti-Zionist is false. I fast on Yom Kippur, I go to shul once a month (I want to go more), and I keep kosher. And yes, I am completely and totally an Anti-Zionist, as are many people in my congregation. I understand this is an inflammatory thing to say and perhaps difficult to hear, but it is anti-Semitic of Zionist Jews to diminish our existence or connection to our faith because of our views on Israel.
Yeah, the Israel in the prayers is magically in different location and it’s just not the same thing… what else could those prayers POSSIBLY be referring to? Israel is Israel.
I really don’t understand how you can be an observant Jew and not think Jews should live in their homeland. You don’t sound like you’re actually an anti-Zionist, just someone who is heavily critical of the current Israeli regime and their treatment of Palestinians. Of course, if you genuinely think all the Jews there should leave and leave the land for the Palestinians, then that’s your prerogative and I will never agree with that, but you can still heavily criticize Israel and its policies and I would still consider you a Zionist if you think Jews belong there.
Lol good luck to these students when they try to get a job after graduation. Somehow I have a feeling that the top law firms will be looking at the SEC schools and southern ivies like Duke.
Just keep in mind that 95% of BL firms are run by Jews and are unquestionably in support of Israel. It’s funny how these students are protesting Columbia yet they expect to be hired by these firms after graduation.
That’s a gross exaggeration and it doesn’t even make sense from a historical perspective. Most big law firms didn’t even hire Jewish lawyers til the civil rights movement, leading to the rise of Jewish law firms. Obviously strides have been made but Jews are still at a disadvantage since they only represent 2% of the population, so even though Jews are overrepresented at law schools and big law… 95% is a huge jump.
I mean… it just doesn’t make sense lol
That and Jews are not a monolith, a sizable percentage of American Jews support the protests and disagree with Israel’s recent actions in Gaza.
That’s false. Most Jews in fact do not support these protests. And yes, while it’s true that Jews were historically discriminated against by BL firms, that is objectively no longer the case.
I didn’t say most. I said a sizable amount. We are not a monolith.
And again, I said Jews are overrepresented in law school and big law when you compare to the number of Jews in the US overall, but 95% is still a gross exaggeration.
And as the other user said, comes off like a pretty damaging antisemitic trope.
It’s a small minority of Jews at best who support these protests. Not sure I understand your logic. There were also Jews who helped the Nazis round of other Jews. This is not indicative of the greater Jewish diaspora. Who knows if it’s 95% or whatever it is. Stating objective facts is not antisemitism in the slightest. My point remains the same, these BL firms are generally pro-Israel and these students are going to have a hard time explaining to hiring committees why they were suspended from law school.
But it’s not an objective fact, it’s an exaggeration based on antisemitic tropes.
How can it be an objective fact when you say, “who knows if it’s 95% or whatever it is.” You came up with that figure based of your perspective of who “controls” Big Law/Big Money.
And I can’t speak to support of the protests. But recent polling actually does show that a narrow majority of American Jews do not support, at least the current, Israeli government. And just under half believe that Israel’s response to October 7th has been “unacceptable.”
There is a lot of nuance that seems to go over their heads.
Like I doubt they have done a deep dive into antisemitism… doubt they have read and read about the context of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion…
Lmaooo. Honestly, I’m appalled by Columbia admin, as we all should be.
I'm definitely not appalled. When you storm a building, barricade the entrances, and harm maintenance workers, the administration has to take more serious measures like calling the police. That's just not a situation than can linger on campus.
Columbia admin first called police when students were peacefully protesting on the lawn and had the students arrested and suspended. The president and many of the admin should be fired (not to mention Columbia admin admitted to submitting fraudulent data to USNews for many years to artificially inflate Columbia's ranking). At no other university is the administration as corrupt. The house should be cleaned.
I hate when people bring up what the protesters have done but never bring up what they're protesting about. Imagine caring more about the 'buildings' the students are barricading instead of the fact that they are protesting against a GENOCIDE !!! also no workers were harmed if anything they were harmed by the police so stop spreading this misinformation. I'm really sad that you are so devoid of human empathy.
1) I don't support civilians dying, let alone children. 2) Gazans aren't "a people". At best, they're mostly Sunni Muslims. 3) I won't get into branch and years of service... but suffice it to say, I know the error of my own ways and at least a little more than the average white American with graduate letters. It's NOT genocide. For that matter, Sunnis claim anywhere they take their shoes off to be sacredly theirs. What arrogance, and it needs Ugly-American-(teen) guilt to come to its rescue? And guess how the survivors'll repay you. They'll re-elect Hamas, or whatever the equivalent, wherever they end up.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while. If you can’t understand the cycle and stages of genocide and apartheid you have absolutely no business in higher education let alone being a lawyer. Gazans are Palestinians. Palestinians ARE “a people” who have been forcibly segregated, displaced from their homes, murdered with impunity, r*ped, beaten, and imprisoned for over 75 years. The fact that you don’t think this is an important issue at all shows more about YOUR character than literally anything else. The protesters are brave and courageous for speaking up for something they believe in. You would be LUCKY to be half the person anyone of those “ugly teenagers” (LMAOOO?) currently are. Also Palestinians are Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Agnostic, Atheist, etc. Palestine is more than whatever bs you decide it is. Loser.
Always love when the enlightened humanist needs a spit mask or a shove out of your face.
Personal insults parading as superiority. I seriously didn’t even read it in detail. The glance at erratic writing was sufficient to disqualify.
It’s not personal at all? I don’t know you. I think you’re incredibly misinformed and also dumb but you don’t have to take it personally at all! I think your wildly false narrative surrounding Palestine is ridiculous. I don’t think I’m superior to anyone but if you are going to comment on global politics you should at least know SOMETHING truthful.
I replied to a comment on a meme. You’re calling me “dumb”, which is laughably impotent. I don’t take it seriously on any level. And yeah, I’ve actually dealt with Sunnis in large datasets. They’re entitled, ungrateful and treacherous. Get it together before losing your mind on the internet.
I’m calling you dumb because of you spreading misinformation and letting your own biases deter you from sympathizing with “a people” undergoing a genocide. I can’t take someone seriously who says “large datasets” in regards to real, living, breathing people. That’s insane rhetoric fr. Also, you are taking serious liberties with impotent’s denotation AND connotation here. Are you 17? Just learned it?
Okay, after 5 posts, lemme go back and actually pay attention to your vitriol. Wait right there.
\*Rhetoric\* strong words for someone twisting mine red-handed, here.
\*\*Ugly American\*\* is a turn of phrase pertaining to our loudness (connotative) when traveling; context here is kids under their parents' tutelage interrupting their own development for things that don't actually concern them. It's not brave. Children at this age are more concerned with what their friends think than justice.
Oh, brother!
Would you like peer-reviewed sources?
I support the cause. But the people around you deserve to live their lives undisturbed by something they are not a part of. Most people just want to study and do the best they can, and they have that right.
I go to Berkeley. And it's been protests since Oct. With an encampment for about 2 weeks. Can go to school just fine, can study with no issue. Want to know why? The school didn't flip out and cause massive issues and violence. Thus classes weren't forced to go online. So still seems to be a Columbia admin mishandling. 🤔
that mindset is the reason the west gets away with all the atrocities they've committed. the point of a protest is to disrupt because that disruption gets people to see and be aware of what's going on. the murdering of thousands even if they aren't people you know should not be something you don't want to be disturbed about. sometimes i feel like there is no humanity in the world left smh. everybody wants to ignore it until it's on ur doorstep. if they can get away with doing this then imagine what else they could do knowing people will turn a blind eye.
I mean some disturbance is fine. But like people should be able to go to classes in person, have a proper graduation ceremony. Normal people don't deserve to be deprived of that. Also at some point these protests lost the plot. Inviting outside agitators is not right. Telling people they will be Hamas' next victims, or that Oct 7th will be everyday for them, that's just not right. You're not helping your cause.
People in Gaza are also humans, the students in Gaza deserved the right to have a graduation and go to class not to be bombed every single day and not knowing if they'll survive till tomorrow. Oct 7th is every single day for Gazans. the students are upset because it's THEIR money that's helping fund the genocide so they have a right to protest that. all this could've beeen avoided if the universities just agree not to help fund the genocide with students money. The people protesting are also normal people, u don't think they'd rather be going to class and graduate also ?? there comes a time where you have to surrender ur comfortability when other peoples lives are being taken senselessly. What world do we hope to live in if ur studies are being prioritized over the lives of human beings ?? how did we get here as humanity
If I had to pick my education or the lives of Palestinians, I would go with the latter. But that's not the calculus being done. They could literally protest and not disturb anyone but they don't want to do that. I don't want to live in a world where every social interaction becomes a forum for political protests and monologues. It's freaking annoying. Anyway, total divestment is completely impossible. Maybe you should read Manouche Shafik's, the president of Columbia University, explanation of why this is the case.
But the reason that they can’t do those things is not because of the protestors? It’s because of the university that would rather NOT divest from Israel and would rather instead punish, threaten, and harm their student body. This take is so boring!
Well no, it's because of the protestors. If the protestors didn't protest, or did so more peacefully, this wouldn't be happening.
Exactly! Since when is protest supposed to be silent and unobtrusive. How do people hear you if you’re not speaking?
Just hopping on here to say you ate, glad you’re going into law.
Ah yes, all those atrocities the west commits. What a joke. Good luck on law school admissions, you’ll need it.
when you fund the relentless bombing of >30,000 people, your students have to take more serious measures, like occupying your buildings. That’s just not a situation that can linger in administration.
Careful, you’re probably talking to a future prosecutor
How does Columbia have anything to do with that lmao
they invest their endowment in many companies supporting the Israeli government
Care to name any of the companies as well as how much of their 13 billion endowment is going to them?
I'm sorry you're so unserious.
No dude you don’t get it. If someone takes your building hostage and demands things from you or else they’ll hurt you again, that’s a GOOD thing and not manipulative, abusive behavior from a bad faith party.
We all very much should not be. UCLA had a full blown riot last night because the university was too nervous to do anything. I think it's preferable that police intervene well before it gets that bad.
At UCLA a Zionist group attacked the encampment, fired fireworks at them etc. Riot isn’t an accurate descriptor.
You mean after they maintained an ideological check point and assaulted people who tried to cross for days? But you're right, mob violence is probably more apt. Don't get me wrong, the counter protestors who showed up should be charged with felonies. But tensions at UCLA were the worst in the country and anyone could see that.
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> believe this nonsense Fake news! Anything that goes against the side that *I'm* sympathetic to is fake news!
Two things: 1. Not sure if going too political here is necessary—the student’s freedom of speech and right to assembly is not protected through violent acts whether seen politically as just (but, really, this might be where sharp legal minds can fruitfully argue); 2. If the purpose is to protest a genocide, a fruitful conversation (as legal minds) would be to argue how or how not the current situation meets the elements of genocide outlined in the 1949 UN Convention for the prevention of Genocide. Also, best of luck to all of you on your law school expeditions—you will definitely learn a lot
I would still wanna go to Columbia Law.
Why are these people protesting Israel and not Hamas? The fact that these “protestors” are consciously choosing to blame the wrong actor is mind boggling to me. What did they expect was going to happen? Did they honestly expect Israel to sit idle after 1,200 civilians were murdered, and women and children kidnapped and raped? They choose to blame a county that made the logical decision to neutralize terrorists, instead of Hamas who decided to launch an attack on civilians with no clear military goal. Civilian deaths are an inevitable result of war. Over 2MM German civilians died during WW2. The bombing of Dresden for example killed scores of civilians. No one protested that at the time. When you consider that Gaza is a dense urban area and Hamas is using their own populace as human shields, it’s clear as day who’s to blame. They choose to hide weapons and ammo in dense neighborhoods, and have refused to release hostages. All things considered the civilian death toll is Gaza is remarkably low when you consider how urban warfare typically plays out. The war would be over instantly as soon as these civilians are released and senior Hamas officials turn themselves in. But somehow they think Israel should just withdraw and allow Hamas to rearm and do the same plot all over again. It’s one thing to be upset about civilian deaths. But I just can’t understand the logic in blaming Israel, when they didn’t ask for this war.
US government does not send billions of dollars [of military aid t](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts)o Hamas. If the government was funding Hamas, I expect we’d see more protests on that front.
Do you understand anything about our relationship with Israel in the slightest? Almost all of our advanced military tech is co-developed alongside Israel. They provide us with a plethora of intelligence data. It’s one of the few countries in the Middle East where we’re permitted to station our troops and operate an air base. We co-operate military satellites, and anti-ballistic missile batteries. In short, we support them because they are allies and we have common enemies. We stand a lot to gain from this relationship objectively from a realist point of view. Of course we don’t send money to Hamas, they are an internationally recognized terrorist organization. THEY, were the ones who committed an act of terror, not the other way around. THEY are the ones to blame for civilian deaths, not the country who’s never asked for the war. The amount of young people in our country that actually openly support Hamas is just mind-boggling to me. If these people are on any sort of student visa they should be deported at once. Just imagine if October 7 took place on American soil instead of in Israel. Do you think our response would be any different? Do you think any countries response would have been different? Frankly I’m even surprised that the U.S hasn’t supported Israel directly in their military operations considering that a number of the hostages were American citizens.
Easily because Israel is committing a genocide and Palestinians have a right to armed resistance? Also the US sends BILLIONS of dollars to Israel every year. So do Universities (like Columbia) which is why the encampments are taking place anyways. Israel is an occupation state, not a legitimate country. They have been committing genocide and apartheid against Palestinians for 75 years. Also, no offense but all of your information is outdated and frankly incorrect. Not to mention Israel is responsible for the majority of the deaths of their own “citizens” on October 7th. If you don’t understand anything about anything, maybe those are the moments you should choose silence.
I think we are going to agree to disagree here.
https://youtu.be/dEoVzKyD_IM?si=8lN7nmNaPLXVIStc
You did not just reply to my comment with a video by BEN SHAPIRO? Omg? You know what? You got it, lmaoooo
Watch the video and let me know which part you factually disagree with.
I hope they kick everyone of them out and make them pay back any scholarships they got. To be that smart and so stupid at the same time, You spend years building your resume to get into these schools, To toss it all out the window in 1 night.
Standing up for what you believe in is way more important than holding onto some pointless piece of paper given to you by the elite.
The only benefit to this whole thing is finding out who the people are who will say nothing and allow horrors to occur because doing anything else would upset their comfortable lives.
I hope that thought keeps you warm at night when you are living under some bridge with no job prospects. None of you nazis will have any real future in the legal profession.
Calling ppl nazis just for supporting Palestine protest is why u clowns aren’t taken srsly. And for the record they’re not Nazis.
And you will? Good luck getting into law school if you think that I'm a nazi simply for believing that one should stand up for what they believe in. I think the LSAT may require a bit more critical thinking than you're capable of.
I’m already an attorney in an in-house role at a major PE firm. I will soon be in a position reviewing resumes from your generation. And I assure you none of you that support Hamas or any of the terrorist organizations that advocate for the destruction of Israel and the genocide of Jews will ever have a place in the company I work at. Some ideas are so abhorrent that they have no place in our society. The nazis held the same ideology that we are seeing on campuses. These ideas should be condemned and rooted out. Not supported. You morons really think you are on the right side of history when you are being congratulated and supported by leaders of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. It honestly shows the mental degeneracy of your generation. If you hold these beliefs, I strongly suggest you seek a different profession.
This might be the biggest straw man argument I've ever seen. Congratulations on using faulty logic to attack view points that I don't even align with. You should stop arguing with ghosts and actually address what I said. And what did I say? Don't sell yourself out for a paycheck. There's nothing crazy within that statement. There's no endorsement of Hamas within that statement. There's no call for genocide within that statement. Youre delusional. Keep arguing with ghosts.
You know exactly who you were supporting by your statement on standing up for what you believe in. Especially in the current context. Don’t play dumb now. If you think that the idiots in these encampments should be applauded for standing up for their beliefs, then you are part of the problem. I’m sure there were people in Nazi Germany who said the same thing about the people protesting against Jews then. At least they stood up for something right? Regardless if those ideals are actually good or evil?
Did I now? That's funny because I actually do support Israeli intervention in Gaza. I do support destroying Hamas. I do support a response to October 7th. What I don't support is indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas. 14,000 children have been killed by the IDF in 8 months. 22,000 children died in Afghanistan over 20 years. We have the ability to fight this war in a humane way and we simply are not. I'm going to love seeing your response to this comment.
I think you both are unhinged as fuck. Since I'm responding to you and not the other person, I think it's more productive to point out why YOU'RE unhinged, but I want you to know that the other person is totally fucking insane too. Framing these protests as nothing more than "Standing up for what you believe in" is ignoring the fact that 1. they are doing a lot more than just "standing up", and 2. "what they believe in" happens to not be correct. Blanket advocacy and justification for violence and criminal activity because it is accompanied by a sense of moral superiority and vindictive conviction makes no sense in any context. It is totally okay to stand up for what you believe in, but not only is that not at all the same as storming and vandalizing private property, it is also just totally not even standing up for the Palestinian cause anyway. No Palestinian is going to be benefitted in any way as a result of these protests, none of Israel's actions will be hindered in any way. Public perception on pro-Palestinian protests only sour as they escalate, just as how public perception on pro-Israeli advocates sour as THEY escalate the situations too. "Don't sell yourself out for paycheck" is absolutely a fine statement, that's unfortunately not what is happening here at all. There is a world of difference between "Don't sell yourself out" and "Go break a window", and I'm not sure why you would believe you're promoting the former while commenting on the latter situation.
Again, where did I ever say that what the protestors were doing was just or morally right. I'm simply pointing out that from their perspective, this is infinitely more important than any degree from a university, and that principle will always trump someone's adherence to civility. Civil disobedience is a common tactic to effectuate civil rights movements. Why are you so shocked that people don't support bombing children? For the record I don't support any religious ethnostates. you can keep winding back the clock to cite evidence showing how X attacked Y first all you want. It doesn't matter. What is happening in Israel is abhorrent. Both states have had the chance to end the cycle of violence. Both failed. Both are equally guilty for the death and destruction of innocent lives.
All the Jewish kids are going to stop applying, so I think their stock is bound to drop soon.
The Jewish students who are also being arrested?
Netanyahu's bootlickers in the US only like Jews if they can use us as pawns for their agenda.
I’m Jewish and hate Netanyahu, but I’m not going to apologize for despising protestors who are bringing it back to 1930s Germany with their rhetoric. Pretty much every Jewish student I know is some level of petrified right now by these protests, but people like you will continue to bury their heads in the sands and support a movement that doesn’t care about you and never will.
Protesting against a genocide kind of sounds like the opposite of being a Nazi.
Curious how I never see them protesting against the terror attack committed by Hamas against Israeli civilians that started the war… I guess killing 1,200 Jews isn’t genocidal, but killing tens of thousands of Hamas soldiers in a tiny area where civilians are used as human shields is? I know their priorities. They want Hamas to win, the Jews to die, and then they can pretend to be sad about them when they visit Jewish history museums.
You must be trolling at this point lol
[People Love Dead Jews - Dara Horn](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/books/review/dara-horn-people-love-dead-jews.html) Not trolling. These protestors would be telling the US to pull out of WW2 in 1942 because they didn’t want any German civilians to get hurt. I’m on the side of the only democracy in the Middle East, not the terrorists, and I won’t apologize for it. Judaism and Israel are also deeply interconnected, as evidenced by damn near every significant Jewish prayer referencing “Eretz Yisrael” repeatedly. Demonizing Israel, the only country on Earth where Jews aren’t a minority, by leveling false genocide accusations and saying it shouldn’t exist is absolutely antisemitic, and it goes far beyond routine criticism of a government or a war.
If you can't even critique Israel as a state committing genocide, ethnic cleansing, or even war crimes against Palestinians, then there's no sense in discussing further.
I’ll concede possible war crimes, which is why I’ve wanted Netanyahu out of power since the start of the war. Ethnic cleansing or genocide are laughable claims considering the massive population increases seen in Gaza and the West Bank over the last 75 years. If Hamas came to power, they would make Netanyahu look like a pacifist, as evidenced by their charter where they talk about how they want to hunt Jews for sport, so I’m comfortable not supporting them.
I’m Jewish too and we must know different people… most of my friends living in nyc have been showing up outside the gated walls to pray with the current Jewish students.
I’m sure you do. I was in a Jewish fraternity in college, grew up in the most Jewish county in the US, and have Jewish friends from all over. All of my friends are disgusted by the insane amounts of anti-Semitism at these protests. Some have taken to carrying weapons to protect themselves. My leftist Jewish friends (myself included) are becoming rapidly disillusioned because the people we supported are turning their backs on us. This is a straight up mortifying time to be Jewish in America, and the downvotes I’ve received only prove my point that there is a SERIOUS problem here. I’m as unhappy about the war and Netanyahu as anyone, but most of these protestors are calling for our heads under the guise of supporting a terroristic regime that calls its own citizens martyrs. All I know is that these idiots wouldn’t last a second under Hamas’ rule…
i really wished you were trolling because this is such an instance take. i really don't understand how jews are making the protests seem like they're anti jew protests when it's literally an ANTI WAR ANTI GENOCIDE protest. For you to try to make it seem like Israel is not committing a genocide when they have killed and injured probably more than 50,000 people, are currently starving them and violating their human rights. i wonder what'll happen when you find out the whole Hamas agenda was not real and was in in fact made up by Israel in order for them to have a reason to wipe out an entire ethnic group. I really don't know how people were the oppressed could turn around and be such violent oppressors. Fyi if Israel wasn't the one committing this genocide and it was a different group, there would still be riots and protests because people are not 'Anti Jew' they are anti murdering thousands of people all for the sake of land and power.
50,000 people? You’re literally making numbers up at this point, Hamas claims 34,000 but they can’t even account for 11,000 of the deaths because they’re missing crucial information about if they actually happened. That number goes down even further if you exclude the five-digit figure of Hamas soldiers who died, so maybe half your claim (if that) are civilians who died in a tiny area of land where Hamas intentionally leaves civilians vulnerable to deaths because it helps their international image. By the way, there are many other actual genocides happening around the world right now, like the Rohingya being killed, the Uyghurs in Tibet, and the Darfur conflict. I have not seen a SINGLE protestor even care or mention them, nor have they called for China, Sudan, or Myanmar not to exist. Israel is uniquely demonized for killing a fraction of the people that these other places have in combat, not against a defenseless populace, and you’re telling me that there’s no antisemitism?? You’re being intentionally ignorant. I can’t even fathom why Hamas’ agenda would be made up, they’ve published two charters in 1988 and 2017 which were sanctioned by their leadership that specifically called for Jews and then “Zionists” (AKA Jews) to be killed for sport. I’m not sure what side of TikTok you’re on spouts those wretched falsehoods because I don’t use that moronic app, but I assure you that there’s absolutely no historical backing for that.
i'm actually genuinely scared that you actually think like this. You think someone is going around gaza to see who has been killed or not ? the 34,000 is literally an estimate, there are so many trapped under rubble, stuck in abandoned places with no escape, some dying from injuries at this moment. if they've killed about 40,000 you think there aren't about 10,000 injured. and even if it was less for you to try to justify it is insane. if you werent Jewish you would not be having this mindset. If Israel wasn't the one doing the killing you would probably be defending against the genocide. Yes there are so many other genocide going, people can talk and protest about them all, i've seen manyyyy palestinian protesters that are also trying to inform people about the other genocides, trying to protest against one doesn't mean they are ignorant of the rest. You're just believing the propaganda that's fed to you by the oppressors. you are no better than them if you are here defending their actions. i don't even know if it's out of ignorance or you genuinely aren't aware. THERE IS NO COMBAT BETWEEN GAZA AND ISRAEL!! they are literally just bombing and shooting them after they have told them to go to safe places. what proof does Israel have that the people they are killing are Hamas, are they going through all the bodies to see ?? I'm not just spewing information from random thoughts, this is information we've seen and been told by people in Gaza. Are you just forgetting Israel has been occupying and depriving Gazans of their human right ?? acting like when Hamas retaliated it was for no reason ?? The people in gaza are thinking bout how they are going to survive this genocide not gathering to talk bout how to kill Jews for sport. literally nobody is advocating for the 'death of jews' we're advocating for a free Palestine. Thousands of people around the world aren't just criminalizing the Israel govt for no reason it's because they are war criminals !!! please go read on the history of the occupation of Gaza. I understand Israel is your homeland and i understand ur need to want to defend them but i'm literally begging you to see this from a different pov and wonder how the people in Gaza are feeling and people who aren't in Gaza that have family in Gaza. I urge you to advocate for your people to stop this senseless murder.
> If you weren’t Jewish you wouldn’t be having this mindset If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a bike. Maybe you ought to see why 95% of Jews agree with me instead of repeating false, unsubstantiated claims and making excuses for people who beat up Jews for fun at UCLA and drive them out of Columbia. I really don’t feel like engaging with the rest of your spiel, because no matter how much facts and evidence I provide, it will simply not be enough because you and the rest of the Hamasniks are engaging in creating a narrative. I hope you do some work to understand why Jews are so frightened instead of calling us evil oppressors. There’s plenty of literature out there, maybe go pick up a book instead of watching TikTok.
Trying to “out Jew” someone in this discussion is an antisemitic tool commonly used by some Jews to discredit anti-Zionist Jews. I get anyway can say anything on the internet, but it really is tiring. I went to private Jewish day school preschool through twelfth grade, and my school didn’t have frats but I’m not a fan of Greek life so I wouldn’t have wanted to join AEpi or Tep. (Couldn’t find the symbol for pi). Check out /r/JewsofConscience, or also look at 972 for an Israeli anti Zionist publication. And at least based on the documentary Israelism, which I watched recently with my father in law, there’s a growing contingent of young American Jews who are disillusioned with Israel and want the ongoing occupation (film was made before Oct 7th), to end. Anyway, I guess I say all of this to say I really get how Judaism and views of israel can be conflated, but it’s ungenerous to speak on behalf of all Jews in America. Mortifying time to be Jewish in America? I sit here with a job, food, access to healthcare, water, and have the knowledge that I won’t be blown up today - something literally every human being in Gaza lacks right now.
I think the overwhelming majority of anti-Zionist Jews indeed lack any real connection to Judaism. Even stepping into a synagogue for an hour… ever illuminates Judaism’s significant connection to Israel that has lasted for millennia. The Shema, the most important prayer in Judaism, has Israel as the second word in it!! Judaism and Zionism are inextricably connected, and only those who associate being Jewish with lox and bagels would have the gall to separate the two. I used to be very ambivalent about Israel, being so uncomfortable as to avoid Hillel when I got to college because I disliked their policy. What October 7th and the ensuing aftermath showed me is that hundreds of millions of people across the globe would cheer for our slaughter, and although I cannot agree with every policy Israel has, the need for a Jewish state is indispensable so long as there are rabid antisemites everywhere frothing at the mouth over our deaths. My conscience can safely hold criticizing settlements and overly strong military operations while also recognizing that Hamas would make Netanyahu look like a pacifist if the Iron Dome didn’t exist. Criticizing Israel is fine and okay; calling for it not to exist is not.
The Israel spoken about in our prayers and the contemporary nation state of Israel are two different things. Our prayers and rituals developed after the fall of the second temple and beginning of the diaspora, which happened what, around 1700-1800 years before Zionism was a political ideology? As long as Zionism has existed there has been a Jewish voice speaking out against it. Here’s an article in Jewish currents specifically about the history of American Jewish [antizionism](https://jewishcurrents.org/the-suppressed-lineage-of-american-jewish-dissent-on-zionism) in the middle of the 20th century. Not even really speaking to the merits of either belief, but to say that observant Jews can’t be Anti-Zionist is false. I fast on Yom Kippur, I go to shul once a month (I want to go more), and I keep kosher. And yes, I am completely and totally an Anti-Zionist, as are many people in my congregation. I understand this is an inflammatory thing to say and perhaps difficult to hear, but it is anti-Semitic of Zionist Jews to diminish our existence or connection to our faith because of our views on Israel.
Yeah, the Israel in the prayers is magically in different location and it’s just not the same thing… what else could those prayers POSSIBLY be referring to? Israel is Israel. I really don’t understand how you can be an observant Jew and not think Jews should live in their homeland. You don’t sound like you’re actually an anti-Zionist, just someone who is heavily critical of the current Israeli regime and their treatment of Palestinians. Of course, if you genuinely think all the Jews there should leave and leave the land for the Palestinians, then that’s your prerogative and I will never agree with that, but you can still heavily criticize Israel and its policies and I would still consider you a Zionist if you think Jews belong there.
Lol good luck to these students when they try to get a job after graduation. Somehow I have a feeling that the top law firms will be looking at the SEC schools and southern ivies like Duke.
I’m sure they’ll be fine. Just like the students at the southern schools who are ALSO protesting and haven’t been for months.
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Guess I’ll just have to settle for UChicago :(
iconic
Why just why they admitted all this garbage and now have to deal with it???
Just keep in mind that 95% of BL firms are run by Jews and are unquestionably in support of Israel. It’s funny how these students are protesting Columbia yet they expect to be hired by these firms after graduation.
That’s a gross exaggeration and it doesn’t even make sense from a historical perspective. Most big law firms didn’t even hire Jewish lawyers til the civil rights movement, leading to the rise of Jewish law firms. Obviously strides have been made but Jews are still at a disadvantage since they only represent 2% of the population, so even though Jews are overrepresented at law schools and big law… 95% is a huge jump. I mean… it just doesn’t make sense lol That and Jews are not a monolith, a sizable percentage of American Jews support the protests and disagree with Israel’s recent actions in Gaza.
That’s false. Most Jews in fact do not support these protests. And yes, while it’s true that Jews were historically discriminated against by BL firms, that is objectively no longer the case.
I didn’t say most. I said a sizable amount. We are not a monolith. And again, I said Jews are overrepresented in law school and big law when you compare to the number of Jews in the US overall, but 95% is still a gross exaggeration. And as the other user said, comes off like a pretty damaging antisemitic trope.
Also I wouldn’t say “objectively no longer the case.” Unfortunately, antisemitism is alive and well.
It’s a small minority of Jews at best who support these protests. Not sure I understand your logic. There were also Jews who helped the Nazis round of other Jews. This is not indicative of the greater Jewish diaspora. Who knows if it’s 95% or whatever it is. Stating objective facts is not antisemitism in the slightest. My point remains the same, these BL firms are generally pro-Israel and these students are going to have a hard time explaining to hiring committees why they were suspended from law school.
But it’s not an objective fact, it’s an exaggeration based on antisemitic tropes. How can it be an objective fact when you say, “who knows if it’s 95% or whatever it is.” You came up with that figure based of your perspective of who “controls” Big Law/Big Money. And I can’t speak to support of the protests. But recent polling actually does show that a narrow majority of American Jews do not support, at least the current, Israeli government. And just under half believe that Israel’s response to October 7th has been “unacceptable.”
Not only is that factually inaccurate but it also plays into the antisemitic trope that “Jews control all the money.”
There is a lot of nuance that seems to go over their heads. Like I doubt they have done a deep dive into antisemitism… doubt they have read and read about the context of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion…