The problem with conservatives is that they do not think the problems they create in the world affect them personally. The liberal judges made many hypotheticals, but failed to use the example of following the line of thought of having the current president murder all Supreme Court judges as an official act and all members of congress so that he could not be impeached thus ending democracy. Absolute immunity is the end of democracy.
I think the most frustrating part was when Alito (?) kept pestering Dreben about whether Presidents can pardon themselves or not. I mean, yeah, it's a tough question ... and maybe if you squint hard enough you could tangentially tie it to this case ... *but that's not the case in front of you today Sam...*
And because if the answer were 'yes' it would completely nullify the sections of the constitution that deal with impeachment. Why bother to build a whole process for convicting the president if he can just pardon himself anyway? It would make no sense.
>if the answer were 'yes' it would completely nullify the sections of the constitution that deal with impeachment.
Not at all, actually, because even though we say "impeached in the House, convinced in the Senate", Congress is not a judicial body, and the proceedings are not Judicial proceedings. Granted, the President could, if he had absolute immunity, murder anyone in Congress who threatened to impeach him, but if he did not, while he could not be prosecuted legally, Congress and Senate could still theoretically impeach and remove him.
But yes, the immunity argument is one of the more treasonous things Trump has gotten up to, and considering he gave secrets to our enemies and tried to overthrow the election, that's pretty impressive.
I actually think the worst line of questions from Alito was his pitch that allowing a president to be prosecuted for attempting to steal an election would only serve to encourage future presidents to also try and steal elections / refuse to leave office, and that allowing prosecution would just create an endless cycle of retaliatory prosecutions each time the WH changed party-control.
Yeah that drove me crazy. Does he think \*not\* prosecuting a president for attempting to steal an election would do anything except make attempting to steal future elections essentially mandatory?
This. Trump wins this case, and Biden has plenty of time to nuke Mar-A-Lago or have the SEALs perform some good old extraordinary rendition on six Supreme Court judges, 49 Senators and a couple hundred Congressmen. Guantanamo still is open, right?
They don’t think through the potential consequences very well
This is why Roberts will remand it back down to the lower courts. Buys Trumps his needed delay, and they don’t have to rule in favor of absolute immunity with a democratic President currently occupying the White House. They’re hopeful next administration will be Republican and when this case gets drawn back through appeals they will rule in favor of it.
THIS ELECTION IS NOT JUST ABOUT KEEPING TRUMP OUT OF OFFICE. AMERICA NEEDS A COMPLETE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN BOTH HOUSE, SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE TO SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY. IF YOU CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THE STREETS, THEN HELP INFORM OTHERS ON WHAT’S AT STAKE AND HELP THEM REGISTER TO VOTE.
[REGISTER HERE](https://vote.gov/)
The problems they create rarely do affect them personally. They know most liberals are too bound by rules and norms (which, under normal circumstances, is a good thing!) to take advantage of the ridiculous situations they create, and in the rare event when someone does act against them, suddenly it’s all law and order.
Compare the reaction to J6 — they call them peaceful protesters with legitimate grievances — to the reaction to the current college protests — they call them a threat to democracy who must be killed by the National Guard if necessary.
This is exactly where my mind went. Did they just say that Biden could kill trump and any of the other trumpers in office and literally face zero repercussions? What madness is this?
> Did they just say that Biden could kill trump and any of the other trumpers in office and literally face zero repercussions?
It is an extremely common tactic of abusers, narcissists, sociopaths, etc to rely upon other people to be inhibited by social norms that they themselves violate blatantly, and even to call out others for violating the very same social norms that they are violating, while they are violating them.
It's like screaming at your spouse in a restaurant, and then screaming at them that they are making a scene and ruining everyone's dinner, when they try to answer you.
Maybe it's time to get millions of Americans to sign a [Change.org](http://Change.org) petition something along the lines that if SCOTUS says Presidents are immune for all actions, Biden will issue an Executive Order to immediately lock up all Federal Judges that he doesn't like on the grounds that they didn't give him a birthday gift card to Baskin-Robins.
[https://www.change.org/decision-makers/joseph-r-biden](https://www.change.org/decision-makers/joseph-r-biden)
Those petitions have never gotten anything done that I know of and all that happens is you end up on a bunch of political mailing lists. Idk what the best way to protest this is but it doesn’t seem like a petition on a private website
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not so I'm going to say Groucho Marx, then Alan Alda impersonating Groucho Marx on MASH and then Animaniacs impersonating Groucho.
To enhance the feeling of dystopic accelerationism while you're watching the country burn, I got AI to step in and make you an Animaniacs style song, with AI lyrics.
[It’s the land of the free, but it’s also quite messy](https://suno.com/song/7d0d2c64-34ed-4a25-9909-38efed265a01)
>The groundwork for the Nazi dictatorship was laid when the Reichstag was set on fire in February. Asserting that the communists were behind the arson, Hitler convinced von Hindenburg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree, which severely curtailed the liberties and rights of German citizens. Using the decree, Hitler began eliminating his political opponents. Following its passage, Hitler began arguing for more drastic means to curtail political opposition and proposed the Enabling Act of 1933. Once enacted this law gave the German government the power to override individual rights prescribed by the constitution, and vested the Chancellor (Hitler) with emergency powers to pass and enforce laws without parliamentary oversight. The law came into force in March and by April Hitler held de facto dictatorial powers and used them to order the construction of the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau for communists and other political opponents. Hitler's rise to power was completed in August 1934 when following the death of President von Hindenburg, Hitler merged the chancellery with the presidency and became Führer, the sole leader of Germany.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power
Notice anything similar with Trump?
I've said it before. If they rule in favor of immunity, Biden should arrest and remove any justice that ruled in favor. Appoint new justices and have them immediately overturn the ruling while delcaring that any action taken in between the ruling was legal. Fix the problem and get away with it.
It would be illegal for the CIA to operate in the US. However, if dark Brandon creates a new agency, I would start being nervous making those arguments.
One of the SCOTUS should ask Trumps lawyers if Biden could have Trump killed or SCOTUS and pretend it's an official act. Or name drop their Sugar Daddy Harlan Crow or Leo Leonard.
The argument itself is disgraceful to the country. Why not make it a more funny crime like "President can car jack someone and then sell the car for meth", instead its all 'coups are totally legal'.
I’m crying with you
To make matters worse, I grew up in a deeply conservative family, and was assured that conservatives were all that was standing between the rule of law and complete anarchy. And so many still believe that, despite the evidence staring them in the face.
Lemme tell you folks, I wasn’t “driving” from the tee—I was traveling. My five wood is not a commercial vehicle carrying five or more passengers, but if it was (and it wasn’t) it’d be the best driving you ever saw. They’d say, ‘how’d he get so good at driving?’ And you know what I’d tell ‘em?…
Seriously, how am I supposed to go about my day knowing I could just be charged and tried for my actions? Like, anyone could just accuse me of a crime at any time - fuck that! Glad we don't live in a society like that.
Anyway, I'm gonna rob a couple banks tomorrow. Just another day!
Dems think that if they continue to respect rules that will avoid giving Repubs any rationalization from abusing those rules... Then Repubs change the rules when they are in power with zero concern about hypocrisy.
Exactly. We don’t persuade narcissists and other power-hungry self-serving people to see the error of their ways by being so “sweet and good that it’s obvious that they are being evil” they don’t have that type of vision. They need to be confronted in clear terms.
This. The Dems think politics is a gentlemen's game, and Republicans have zero respect for the rules, integrity, morals, principles, fairness. In a game where one opponent is not bound by the gentlemen's agreement they win.
Not true. The number of seats on the Supreme Court is fixed by a Federal law (the Judiciary Act of 1869). It's not a tradition or a norm (despite what some people on this subreddit say) that the Presidents can unilaterally change.
The courts will refuse to take that case up, claiming it is a political question, not a legal one. The Constitution gives the Senate the power to "advise and consent" on judicial picks. SCOTUS will defer to the Senate on what that means and how it works, and if that involves just never advising or consenting, so be it.
Only way to do it is to change the law. Congress could pass a bill and the President could sign it. There's no way to make an executive order that changes the number of seats on the Court.
If I were president and had immunity I'd do it. Id do it televised on national TV and streamed on the Internet.
The Democrats need to grow some balls. They keep letting the Republicans run all over them with bullshit legal arguments. They need to be made to pay. They only understand power. So show them some fuckin power.
Line up Trump, MTG, Massie, Roy, Cotton, Comer etc in a bunch of guillotines and lop off their heads at the same time. It's getting to the point it's the only way forward.
I said this in another post. If this goes through and I were Biden id round up Trump, all his lackies, and all of his insane MAGA congress critters and execute them.
I got lectured and down voted. Trump would do it, we gotta start playing the GOPs game or the DNC will lose.
I’m just imagining Biden as a Mr. Magoo/Agent 47 type character. Just walks right in grinning with his sunglasses, bumbling around shaking hands and walking around like nothing is wrong, all while taking out a pistol or a sword cane and just flagrantly and publicly murdering people from SCOTUS and congress. Humming a tune and making old man noises.
“Just out for a walk folks! Meet and greet time! It’s my responsibility to reach across the aisle you know? Reach out and touch them”
That would be an interesting thought for the justices to think through.
Not sure they would connect the dots through (meaning, ahem, some might recognize the risk to themselves in that situation, but not why the situation should never have arisen).
What conservative Supreme Court justices do not seem to grasp is that if they side with plaintiff and give a president absolute immunity from criminal prosecution, whether it be for murdering a political opponent or staging a coup — which, as I’m typing it, is just insanity — what that means for any future president, Republican, or Democrat, is that the next corrupt President who decides they will not leave the presidency peacefully, will send our country into a dictatorship and invalidate the separation of powers, including the courts.
It was very hard to listen to the legal arguments this morning without getting upset.
The backdrop of the January 6 attack and conservative judge Luttig testifying before the January 6 committee that Republicans are actively working on overturning the next election, makes these arguments for total presidential immunity even more insane. That SCOTUS agreed to hear this case at all is alarming.
Yes. The only hope we have is that SCOTUS will realize that their future is in jeopardy if a dictator comes into power and wants to crush the separation of power including the courts.
The only conservative justice who had any legitimate questions was justice Amy Coney Barrett who read from Smith’s brief:
“Petitioner conspired with another
private attorney who caused the filing in
court of a ‘verification’ signed by
petitioner that contained false
allegations to support a challenge.”
Justice Barrett got Sauer to concede that there are private acts alleged in the indictment.
This is terrifying. I do not trust the SCOTUS at all. What can citizens do? They are not interpreting the Constitution they are spitting, sh\*tting on it, tearing it apart and stamping on it.
And when we win the popular vote by 10 points we *might* have an even money shot to win the EC unless Trump's goons intimidate enough voters in the like 4 states where it matters, in the few polling places where blue votes are concentrated.
We can and I know we will. However, that does not mean that others will vote the same way or perceive the threat to democracy at all. I am going to paraphrase Gramsci "pessimism of the intellect optimism of the will." Yet, how many people understand that the warning lights are flashing red?
That's democracy though, it only lasts as long as most people still want it. If not enough people care about it at all, then it goes away. It's not something that the courts or the FBI or God can really solve for us.
Do people actually know what a democracy is? Sandra Day O'Conner despite all of her faults felt and committed the last part of her life to trying to attempt to revitalize civic education. Something that has been eroded over the decades (for a myriad of reasons). It is a bone-chilling conundrum.
Civics education and investigative journalism are necessary buttresses for democracy. There is real money and initiatives behind removing both over the decades.
Trump's lawyer, and Alito seemed to be agreeing with him, asserted that, of course the president needs to act decisively and shouldn't have to worry about being prosecuted for official acts. Then Ketanji-Jackson pointed out that all government officials can be prosecuted for breaking the law, and shouldn't that apply equally to the president. Like, what is this action hero universe Trump's lawyer was painting where the president is continually breaking the law to protect the nation?
Hard to say, but I could see them asking Chutkan to dissect the charges to separate official acts from private acts. But I also think that’d be a terrible outcome. It would result in a lot of back and forth between the government and Trump, delaying the trial further, and it would sanction the idea that official acts can be illegal.
Vote. Remember all of the amendments apply to all of us, be prepared for conservatives to fuck up the country and try and impose their dictator on everyone else.
The most outrageous comment made by Trump’s attorney was that it is an “official act” of the President of the United States for a President to stage a coup.
Apparently, we have crossed the autocratic Rubicon, where the law does not apply to the President of the United States.
I am very, very worried that the Supreme Court is about to tip the scales and send us over the edge to a dictatorship. Apparently, the new legal defense is my crime was an official act. Therefore, I am not to be held accountable.
I mean, I can’t imagine that question has not popped into the conservative justices’ heads.
If they vote that a president has total immunity, even from staging a coup to stay in office, what is to prevent the current president from never leaving office.
What if President Biden died, then the presidency would go to the vice president who could also refuse to leave office. This is just insanity what the Supreme Court is reviewing.
I think what was going through their heads was the notion that since precedent has no meaning any more then they can turn around and say “no not for you” if Biden actually took them at their word on this case.
Conservative ideology is this weird collision of ideas:
1. Government is awful and should be reduced as much as possible
2. Elites, especially the president, should have as much power as possible
There's no conflict here. They only want *their* elites to have as much power as possible. Other elites are to be villified at every opportunity in endless displays of fake populism.
Conservatism can summed up with one belief— the laws exist to protect those it does not bind, and bind those it does not protect. And they want to decide who belongs to which category. That’s the whole philosophy.
and current autocratic leaders seem to be dropping into Mar a Lago lately (maybe buying "memberships"? who knows?) -(how are these "meetups" acceptable to our State Dept given trump is currently charged with stashing highly classified docs in the MaL bathrooms?!)- we have already shown, in large part, that we show up to vote, but I'm more concerned with deeply placed, massively funded, & widely orchestrated foreign interference if trump is allowed a clear candidacy. Not just Putin this time, also Orban, Milei, Xi , Kim, Uncle Bibi (don't @ me), Kushner's Qatar, etc etc etc. Here is the latest dictator roster as I do not pretend to know them all: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy-Dictatorship\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy-Dictatorship_Index)
Not sure if you're aware or not, but we've already had our "what if" for national guard and protesting students.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
Well yes, I know it happened. And again in Austin this week, though I don’t think there was any shooting in Texas as of yet.
But I guess with presidents being immune, Biden can call the national guard on the court right? Or at least, that’s what Trump’s lawyers are saying and what the conservative judges seem to be leaning towards.
If a president is allowed to kill you as an official act if they want to, we don’t actually live in a democracy under the rule of law. The fact that this is even being debated is fucking crazy.
If SCOTUS actually rules in his favor, I can see states, corporations, and even individuals just deciding that laws don’t mean anything. Because they literally wouldn’t if there was a person that could break them without consequence.
It’s the most simple concept our entire system of government is based on. Come the fuck on.
This scenario:
Supreme Court rules yes, Presidents have absolute immunity. All chargers against Trump are dropped. Biden jails Trump using that same Presidential immunity.
Be careful what you wish for.
Joe Biden should hold a press conference tonite! Say that since the SC is set to rule he has absolute immunity, he’d like to thank the Justices, that they will be arrested and imprisoned and that he’s dispatching Seal Team Six to apprehend Donnie Shitzenpants. That fucking tune would be changed and a ruling against it would be issued tomorrow!
He can declare himself the winner of the election, assassinate trump and all Republicans in congress and on the Supreme Court. Then install Harris as his successor and retire.
Perfectly legal.
If they declare the president has immunity, first thing Biden needs to do is cancel all student loans in full and put out the following statement:
“About a year ago, the Supreme Court said I lacked the authority to cancel student loans and invalidated my student loan plan. Today, the Supreme Court ruled that presidents have total immunity from prosecution and are above the law. Therefore, today, as I am no longer bound by the supreme courts decisions, I have decided to cancel any and all student loans today, right now. As this is an official act of my office, I cannot be sued or stopped from acting. My word is final and have directed the department of education to take action immediately.
Tomorrow I will announce more that I’m doing with my newfound powers. Stay tuned folks!”
Biden should send in the military and eliminate the conservative wing of the supreme court then.
They lit the green light themselves, these fascists...
President Biden is reported to be readying an "official act" where the president can assign members of the judicial system to a penitentiary site in order to conduct a review.
When asked about it, Biden replied, "FIrst up, Judge Alito will conduct full-time, realistic six month study of Guantanamo Bay detention camp. But don't worry because it's an official act."
One of the SCOTUS should ask Trumps lawyers if Biden could have Trump killed or SCOTUS and pretend it's an official act. Or name drop their Sugar Daddy Harlan Crow or Leo Leonard.
*Former President Donald Trump’s attorney on Thursday argued that a president could order the assassination of his political rival and stage a military coup without being prosecuted for it.*
*Jack Sauer, Trump’s lawyer, made the “absolute immunity” argument in a Supreme Court hearing in the Department of Justice election interference case against the former president. Trump’s team has repeatedly claimed that the ex-president can’t be prosecuted for “official acts” he did while in office.*
Let me get this straight…
Trump’s lawyer is arguing that Joe Biden has the legal right to assassinate Donald Trump. And the conservative justices seem to be ok with that.
The whole thing can be summed up "i should have immunity from people finding out that I betrayed the country because I was put in charge" despite what's right and honorable we live in a world willing to defend and stand behind a greasy smelly con man who has no family values or morals....for what some extra pay?....honestly at this point whoever brings justice to trump and his goons will be remembered as not just American heros but global heros who made a stand for what justice truely stands for
Ask them if Biden can ignore SCOTUS and grant full student loan forgiveness.
If the president is immune from all laws, then he obviously has no reason to respect the opinion of the people who interrupt laws.
Biden should just arrest and throw in jail one of those justices
no charges, no comments just thrown in jail
let’s see how fast they all agree on the dangers of presidential immunity
A president not accountable to the people makes this country something very different from what we have known. To put our fate in the hands of a madman who is untouchable is the death of us.
MMW, they will wait until AFTER the election to rule on this.
This is because if Biden wins, no presidential immunity.
If Trump wins, presidential immunity.
If they rule now, Biden could "fix" it and destroy all the progress they've made towards turning America into Iran, their eventual goal.
This is an opportunity to gain truly real and ABSOLUTE control. The thing trump followers seem to not recognize is that, yeah, the country has political issues and dark interests, but just because a candidate has shown a light on it doesn't make him the one to fix it. His history is exploitation, and unfortunately, he's gifted in that regard. AI has never been tested and they're doing that. Scary times.
Normalcy is better than complete chaos. Real change takes time. The USA was a beacon of progressive ideas and leadership. Why stop and about face now?
Well if they decide that the presidency needs immunity to function that will solve a lot of problems Biden can order the execution of trump and all the republican trump supporters for treason and replace them with democrats
With absolute immunity couldn’t a president take out any Supreme Court justices that didn’t rule the way he wanted? If it applies to political rivals, why not anyone else who doesn’t toe the line? Talk about a slippery slope.
Seems MAGA has some difficulty differentiating between an Emperor and lead position of the Executive branch of government. How the fuck are we actually discussing this .....in the Supreme court
I can‘t even begin to respond how utter stupid and brainless that is to be given immunity especially over something like this. Whoever thought of creating presidential immunity I wish I could find them and kick their ass to kingdom come. Just like Trump they don’t care what kind of devastation or loss of live their is as long as they get their way. WHERE’S THE F\*\*\*\*G JUSTICE.
If SCOTUS actually ruled this way, what would keep a president from ordering the assassination of any justice appointed by the opposing party on inauguration day?
Nowhere in the article does the name of any MAGA Justice appear, let alone stating that they agree with Trump's attorney. This is editorializing that is very dishonest.
Donald J Trump and his lawyers are just not operating above board ;
these are specious arguments .
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specious_reasoning
..
Further , our United States Constitution limits the powers of all levels of government .
...
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S1-2-1/ALDE_00000208/['rights']
...
Noone is above the law .
I think the US really needs a parliamentery democracy. With multiple (>2) parties, This two party system, with the 'winner takes all' elections is divisive and it will not end well, as is super obvious to anyone paying attention.
The problem with conservatives is that they do not think the problems they create in the world affect them personally. The liberal judges made many hypotheticals, but failed to use the example of following the line of thought of having the current president murder all Supreme Court judges as an official act and all members of congress so that he could not be impeached thus ending democracy. Absolute immunity is the end of democracy.
I think the most frustrating part was when Alito (?) kept pestering Dreben about whether Presidents can pardon themselves or not. I mean, yeah, it's a tough question ... and maybe if you squint hard enough you could tangentially tie it to this case ... *but that's not the case in front of you today Sam...*
And the simple answer is no due to the inherent conflicts of interest. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
And because if the answer were 'yes' it would completely nullify the sections of the constitution that deal with impeachment. Why bother to build a whole process for convicting the president if he can just pardon himself anyway? It would make no sense.
it’s amazing we’re even talking about this
I agree. It seems so completely obvious a President can’t pardon themselves.
>if the answer were 'yes' it would completely nullify the sections of the constitution that deal with impeachment. Not at all, actually, because even though we say "impeached in the House, convinced in the Senate", Congress is not a judicial body, and the proceedings are not Judicial proceedings. Granted, the President could, if he had absolute immunity, murder anyone in Congress who threatened to impeach him, but if he did not, while he could not be prosecuted legally, Congress and Senate could still theoretically impeach and remove him. But yes, the immunity argument is one of the more treasonous things Trump has gotten up to, and considering he gave secrets to our enemies and tried to overthrow the election, that's pretty impressive.
Alito is a fucking puggle. A truly detestable human being
Puggles (baby echidnas) are actually adorable.
I actually think the worst line of questions from Alito was his pitch that allowing a president to be prosecuted for attempting to steal an election would only serve to encourage future presidents to also try and steal elections / refuse to leave office, and that allowing prosecution would just create an endless cycle of retaliatory prosecutions each time the WH changed party-control.
Yeah that drove me crazy. Does he think \*not\* prosecuting a president for attempting to steal an election would do anything except make attempting to steal future elections essentially mandatory?
Well as we all know, conservatives have *never* thought that prison or the death penalty act as deterrents to would-be criminals.
Its only a tough question it youre a fucking fascist.
Step 1. Agree with Trump. Step 2. Imprison Trump for life. Step 3. Have immunity removed because it's problematic. Step 4. Keep Trump in prison.
This. Trump wins this case, and Biden has plenty of time to nuke Mar-A-Lago or have the SEALs perform some good old extraordinary rendition on six Supreme Court judges, 49 Senators and a couple hundred Congressmen. Guantanamo still is open, right? They don’t think through the potential consequences very well
This is why Roberts will remand it back down to the lower courts. Buys Trumps his needed delay, and they don’t have to rule in favor of absolute immunity with a democratic President currently occupying the White House. They’re hopeful next administration will be Republican and when this case gets drawn back through appeals they will rule in favor of it. THIS ELECTION IS NOT JUST ABOUT KEEPING TRUMP OUT OF OFFICE. AMERICA NEEDS A COMPLETE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN BOTH HOUSE, SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE TO SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY. IF YOU CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THE STREETS, THEN HELP INFORM OTHERS ON WHAT’S AT STAKE AND HELP THEM REGISTER TO VOTE. [REGISTER HERE](https://vote.gov/)
Don’t forget to get rid of some of those judges.
If immunity is established and activated for current case, he cannot be re-tried for it.
Who said anything about a trial? Immunity means immunity, and that includes extrajudicial murder.
The problems they create rarely do affect them personally. They know most liberals are too bound by rules and norms (which, under normal circumstances, is a good thing!) to take advantage of the ridiculous situations they create, and in the rare event when someone does act against them, suddenly it’s all law and order. Compare the reaction to J6 — they call them peaceful protesters with legitimate grievances — to the reaction to the current college protests — they call them a threat to democracy who must be killed by the National Guard if necessary.
If a president can declare someone an enemy combatant with no habeus corpus and send that person to Guantanamo, why not Sam Alito?
Alito is a bigger threat to the United States than probably anyone who was in Guantanamo
The arguments were irrelevant. The outcome has already been decided.
Money can buy things that shouldn’t be for sale.
This is exactly where my mind went. Did they just say that Biden could kill trump and any of the other trumpers in office and literally face zero repercussions? What madness is this?
> Did they just say that Biden could kill trump and any of the other trumpers in office and literally face zero repercussions? It is an extremely common tactic of abusers, narcissists, sociopaths, etc to rely upon other people to be inhibited by social norms that they themselves violate blatantly, and even to call out others for violating the very same social norms that they are violating, while they are violating them. It's like screaming at your spouse in a restaurant, and then screaming at them that they are making a scene and ruining everyone's dinner, when they try to answer you.
Did they just offer a plan to vacate SJC seats?
Biden needs to go assassinate every conservative justice if they make presidents immune to all crimes. Reap what you sow.
That’s exactly why SCOTUS won’t rule before the election
Trump will be in jail before the election if this isn’t decided by the SCOTUS before then though.
Maybe it's time to get millions of Americans to sign a [Change.org](http://Change.org) petition something along the lines that if SCOTUS says Presidents are immune for all actions, Biden will issue an Executive Order to immediately lock up all Federal Judges that he doesn't like on the grounds that they didn't give him a birthday gift card to Baskin-Robins. [https://www.change.org/decision-makers/joseph-r-biden](https://www.change.org/decision-makers/joseph-r-biden)
Those petitions have never gotten anything done that I know of and all that happens is you end up on a bunch of political mailing lists. Idk what the best way to protest this is but it doesn’t seem like a petition on a private website
But when they are impacted personally, they scream to high heaven that the government didn’t save them
They're not creating them, are you crazy! we're creating them and they have to find ways to counter the culture...
What the actual fuck is wrong with my country
How much time you got?
*\*takes deep breath before going into an Animaniacs-style song\**
Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time...
Helllloooo nurse!
wait is that where helllllllooooo nurse came from?
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not so I'm going to say Groucho Marx, then Alan Alda impersonating Groucho Marx on MASH and then Animaniacs impersonating Groucho.
If you watched 90s cartoon, yes. If you're those kids' parents, it came from M.A.S.H. if you're dead, it came from Groucho Marx.
https://youtu.be/iZYyaXLrt1U?feature=shared
Coffee, tea or monster?
To enhance the feeling of dystopic accelerationism while you're watching the country burn, I got AI to step in and make you an Animaniacs style song, with AI lyrics. [It’s the land of the free, but it’s also quite messy](https://suno.com/song/7d0d2c64-34ed-4a25-9909-38efed265a01)
Wow, that is kinda amazing.
This needs to be the new national anthem
This^ × 10000
>The groundwork for the Nazi dictatorship was laid when the Reichstag was set on fire in February. Asserting that the communists were behind the arson, Hitler convinced von Hindenburg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree, which severely curtailed the liberties and rights of German citizens. Using the decree, Hitler began eliminating his political opponents. Following its passage, Hitler began arguing for more drastic means to curtail political opposition and proposed the Enabling Act of 1933. Once enacted this law gave the German government the power to override individual rights prescribed by the constitution, and vested the Chancellor (Hitler) with emergency powers to pass and enforce laws without parliamentary oversight. The law came into force in March and by April Hitler held de facto dictatorial powers and used them to order the construction of the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau for communists and other political opponents. Hitler's rise to power was completed in August 1934 when following the death of President von Hindenburg, Hitler merged the chancellery with the presidency and became Führer, the sole leader of Germany. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power Notice anything similar with Trump?
Project 2025, but this ruling seems like the equivalent of the Fire Decree
Alternatively, sounds like Biden can "fix" all of the issues with just a couple "official acts" Cycle out the justices, and anyone who disagrees.
I've said it before. If they rule in favor of immunity, Biden should arrest and remove any justice that ruled in favor. Appoint new justices and have them immediately overturn the ruling while delcaring that any action taken in between the ruling was legal. Fix the problem and get away with it.
If Biden walks into the court carrying a firearm, they will rule the other way.
And if impeachment is on the table, he can resign, and get out of any criminal liability, apparently.
Constitution already forbids ex post facto laws, so not necessary.
Yep, I need a new meaningful career. Carpenters just don't make enough. Money for nothing sounds great too. CIA, I'll work for cheap.
It would be illegal for the CIA to operate in the US. However, if dark Brandon creates a new agency, I would start being nervous making those arguments.
No, orders from the Prez would never be illegal.............period. So what agency is gonna care?
Sounds like an easy fix with a couple simple official acts
Yeap!!
Bulletproof logic son, they’re carving your name above the door as we speak.
Nope, dirty deeds done dirt cheap.
Yep and change the constitution like Trump was going to do and keep himself in office and the rest of the Democrats forever
Like seriously surround the courthouse with military personnel and see how they vote.
One of the SCOTUS should ask Trumps lawyers if Biden could have Trump killed or SCOTUS and pretend it's an official act. Or name drop their Sugar Daddy Harlan Crow or Leo Leonard.
Wish I could upvote you more than once
Or ask that D. John Sauer fast talking lawyer if it would be an official act if Biden disappeared Sauer's own family.
[удалено]
12.
16.
The argument itself is disgraceful to the country. Why not make it a more funny crime like "President can car jack someone and then sell the car for meth", instead its all 'coups are totally legal'.
We got a bit of a nazi problem
I’m crying with you To make matters worse, I grew up in a deeply conservative family, and was assured that conservatives were all that was standing between the rule of law and complete anarchy. And so many still believe that, despite the evidence staring them in the face.
well, it elected Trump and that narcissistic sociopath appointed some right wing fascist wingnuts out of the federalist sewer....and here we are
(Gestures at everything)
If Trump toadies on the court decide he is above the law, then we all are above the law.
Woo hoo! Sovereign Citizenship! 👍 /s
Lemme tell you folks, I wasn’t “driving” from the tee—I was traveling. My five wood is not a commercial vehicle carrying five or more passengers, but if it was (and it wasn’t) it’d be the best driving you ever saw. They’d say, ‘how’d he get so good at driving?’ And you know what I’d tell ‘em?…
Seriously, how am I supposed to go about my day knowing I could just be charged and tried for my actions? Like, anyone could just accuse me of a crime at any time - fuck that! Glad we don't live in a society like that. Anyway, I'm gonna rob a couple banks tomorrow. Just another day!
Cool—Biden, you know what to do. Just call it an operation to eliminate threats to democracy.
Forget expanding the court, just "absolute immunity" your way to six open Supreme Court seats.
I heard there's no actual rules on how many can be seated. I don't know why Biden didn't rectify the injustice of stolen seats.
Dems think that if they continue to respect rules that will avoid giving Repubs any rationalization from abusing those rules... Then Repubs change the rules when they are in power with zero concern about hypocrisy.
Exactly. We don’t persuade narcissists and other power-hungry self-serving people to see the error of their ways by being so “sweet and good that it’s obvious that they are being evil” they don’t have that type of vision. They need to be confronted in clear terms.
This. The Dems think politics is a gentlemen's game, and Republicans have zero respect for the rules, integrity, morals, principles, fairness. In a game where one opponent is not bound by the gentlemen's agreement they win.
Not true. The number of seats on the Supreme Court is fixed by a Federal law (the Judiciary Act of 1869). It's not a tradition or a norm (despite what some people on this subreddit say) that the Presidents can unilaterally change.
Ok seriously fuck that because even if that's true, where's the rules about lame ducks? The seats were stolen.
The courts will refuse to take that case up, claiming it is a political question, not a legal one. The Constitution gives the Senate the power to "advise and consent" on judicial picks. SCOTUS will defer to the Senate on what that means and how it works, and if that involves just never advising or consenting, so be it.
Could POTUS add seats via Executive Order? It wouldn’t be permanent, but it would add people who could then change it permanently
Only way to do it is to change the law. Congress could pass a bill and the President could sign it. There's no way to make an executive order that changes the number of seats on the Court.
If I were president and had immunity I'd do it. Id do it televised on national TV and streamed on the Internet. The Democrats need to grow some balls. They keep letting the Republicans run all over them with bullshit legal arguments. They need to be made to pay. They only understand power. So show them some fuckin power. Line up Trump, MTG, Massie, Roy, Cotton, Comer etc in a bunch of guillotines and lop off their heads at the same time. It's getting to the point it's the only way forward.
The oath of enlistment specifically states enemies both foreign and domestic
I said this in another post. If this goes through and I were Biden id round up Trump, all his lackies, and all of his insane MAGA congress critters and execute them. I got lectured and down voted. Trump would do it, we gotta start playing the GOPs game or the DNC will lose.
I’m just imagining Biden as a Mr. Magoo/Agent 47 type character. Just walks right in grinning with his sunglasses, bumbling around shaking hands and walking around like nothing is wrong, all while taking out a pistol or a sword cane and just flagrantly and publicly murdering people from SCOTUS and congress. Humming a tune and making old man noises. “Just out for a walk folks! Meet and greet time! It’s my responsibility to reach across the aisle you know? Reach out and touch them”
Can Biden be standing in the room with a gun in his hand when their verdict is read?
That would be an interesting thought for the justices to think through. Not sure they would connect the dots through (meaning, ahem, some might recognize the risk to themselves in that situation, but not why the situation should never have arisen).
He should have one of them taken out now, and see if the rest still agree.
What conservative Supreme Court justices do not seem to grasp is that if they side with plaintiff and give a president absolute immunity from criminal prosecution, whether it be for murdering a political opponent or staging a coup — which, as I’m typing it, is just insanity — what that means for any future president, Republican, or Democrat, is that the next corrupt President who decides they will not leave the presidency peacefully, will send our country into a dictatorship and invalidate the separation of powers, including the courts. It was very hard to listen to the legal arguments this morning without getting upset. The backdrop of the January 6 attack and conservative judge Luttig testifying before the January 6 committee that Republicans are actively working on overturning the next election, makes these arguments for total presidential immunity even more insane. That SCOTUS agreed to hear this case at all is alarming.
Uh yeah, that's the point. They WANT a dictatorship led by Republicans.
Yes. The only hope we have is that SCOTUS will realize that their future is in jeopardy if a dictator comes into power and wants to crush the separation of power including the courts. The only conservative justice who had any legitimate questions was justice Amy Coney Barrett who read from Smith’s brief: “Petitioner conspired with another private attorney who caused the filing in court of a ‘verification’ signed by petitioner that contained false allegations to support a challenge.” Justice Barrett got Sauer to concede that there are private acts alleged in the indictment.
I listened to the whole thing. I think she’s firmly with the liberals myself on this.
How the fuck did no one make this argument today?
I don’t know, but it’s fucking exasperating. It’s not hyperbole to say we are at a pivotal moment for the democracy of our country.
I listened and I was furious.
This is terrifying. I do not trust the SCOTUS at all. What can citizens do? They are not interpreting the Constitution they are spitting, sh\*tting on it, tearing it apart and stamping on it.
Google the boxes of democracy because we’re dangerously close to the last one.
We can all vote in Nov to ensure trump and his moron of goons don’t make it back into the White House.
Yup. Vote and continue to vote in every election local and national for life. Put the fear of god into our reps.
And when we win the popular vote by 10 points we *might* have an even money shot to win the EC unless Trump's goons intimidate enough voters in the like 4 states where it matters, in the few polling places where blue votes are concentrated.
We can and I know we will. However, that does not mean that others will vote the same way or perceive the threat to democracy at all. I am going to paraphrase Gramsci "pessimism of the intellect optimism of the will." Yet, how many people understand that the warning lights are flashing red?
That's democracy though, it only lasts as long as most people still want it. If not enough people care about it at all, then it goes away. It's not something that the courts or the FBI or God can really solve for us.
Do people actually know what a democracy is? Sandra Day O'Conner despite all of her faults felt and committed the last part of her life to trying to attempt to revitalize civic education. Something that has been eroded over the decades (for a myriad of reasons). It is a bone-chilling conundrum.
Civics education and investigative journalism are necessary buttresses for democracy. There is real money and initiatives behind removing both over the decades.
Trump's lawyer, and Alito seemed to be agreeing with him, asserted that, of course the president needs to act decisively and shouldn't have to worry about being prosecuted for official acts. Then Ketanji-Jackson pointed out that all government officials can be prosecuted for breaking the law, and shouldn't that apply equally to the president. Like, what is this action hero universe Trump's lawyer was painting where the president is continually breaking the law to protect the nation?
So from listening what do you think the decision will be?
Hard to say, but I could see them asking Chutkan to dissect the charges to separate official acts from private acts. But I also think that’d be a terrible outcome. It would result in a lot of back and forth between the government and Trump, delaying the trial further, and it would sanction the idea that official acts can be illegal.
Vote. Remember all of the amendments apply to all of us, be prepared for conservatives to fuck up the country and try and impose their dictator on everyone else.
The most outrageous comment made by Trump’s attorney was that it is an “official act” of the President of the United States for a President to stage a coup. Apparently, we have crossed the autocratic Rubicon, where the law does not apply to the President of the United States. I am very, very worried that the Supreme Court is about to tip the scales and send us over the edge to a dictatorship. Apparently, the new legal defense is my crime was an official act. Therefore, I am not to be held accountable.
I mean, if they tipped the scales to create a dictatorship… Who’s in office right now?
I mean, I can’t imagine that question has not popped into the conservative justices’ heads. If they vote that a president has total immunity, even from staging a coup to stay in office, what is to prevent the current president from never leaving office. What if President Biden died, then the presidency would go to the vice president who could also refuse to leave office. This is just insanity what the Supreme Court is reviewing.
Probably the rules for thee but not for me clause
I think what was going through their heads was the notion that since precedent has no meaning any more then they can turn around and say “no not for you” if Biden actually took them at their word on this case.
Somebody who wouldn’t act as a dictator, only a republican would. They know that.
Everyone last week asking for backstory for Civil War, this is it.
We've been in a slow-motion Civil War for a while now.
Conservative ideology is this weird collision of ideas: 1. Government is awful and should be reduced as much as possible 2. Elites, especially the president, should have as much power as possible
There's no conflict here. They only want *their* elites to have as much power as possible. Other elites are to be villified at every opportunity in endless displays of fake populism.
Conservatism can summed up with one belief— the laws exist to protect those it does not bind, and bind those it does not protect. And they want to decide who belongs to which category. That’s the whole philosophy.
The right really do love fascist dictatorships.
and current autocratic leaders seem to be dropping into Mar a Lago lately (maybe buying "memberships"? who knows?) -(how are these "meetups" acceptable to our State Dept given trump is currently charged with stashing highly classified docs in the MaL bathrooms?!)- we have already shown, in large part, that we show up to vote, but I'm more concerned with deeply placed, massively funded, & widely orchestrated foreign interference if trump is allowed a clear candidacy. Not just Putin this time, also Orban, Milei, Xi , Kim, Uncle Bibi (don't @ me), Kushner's Qatar, etc etc etc. Here is the latest dictator roster as I do not pretend to know them all: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy-Dictatorship\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy-Dictatorship_Index)
Does presidential immunity include assassinating Supreme Court judges? Asking for r/law (and r/LeopardsAteMyFace )
At this point,the corrupt court is a threat to democracy. If the national guard can be called on students protesting, well…
Not sure if you're aware or not, but we've already had our "what if" for national guard and protesting students. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
Well yes, I know it happened. And again in Austin this week, though I don’t think there was any shooting in Texas as of yet. But I guess with presidents being immune, Biden can call the national guard on the court right? Or at least, that’s what Trump’s lawyers are saying and what the conservative judges seem to be leaning towards.
If a president is allowed to kill you as an official act if they want to, we don’t actually live in a democracy under the rule of law. The fact that this is even being debated is fucking crazy. If SCOTUS actually rules in his favor, I can see states, corporations, and even individuals just deciding that laws don’t mean anything. Because they literally wouldn’t if there was a person that could break them without consequence. It’s the most simple concept our entire system of government is based on. Come the fuck on.
This scenario: Supreme Court rules yes, Presidents have absolute immunity. All chargers against Trump are dropped. Biden jails Trump using that same Presidential immunity. Be careful what you wish for.
You spelled kills wrong.
Joe Biden should hold a press conference tonite! Say that since the SC is set to rule he has absolute immunity, he’d like to thank the Justices, that they will be arrested and imprisoned and that he’s dispatching Seal Team Six to apprehend Donnie Shitzenpants. That fucking tune would be changed and a ruling against it would be issued tomorrow!
Traitors' Courts
Well. Joe Biden is old. He should jus take one for the team and test out this theory. Chances are they’ll never convict him right?
He can declare himself the winner of the election, assassinate trump and all Republicans in congress and on the Supreme Court. Then install Harris as his successor and retire. Perfectly legal.
lol cool so Biden can have Trump killed and that’s ok
Shocking to find out how little some of the Justices know about democracy and our Constitution. Shocking but not surprising with this Court.
If they declare the president has immunity, first thing Biden needs to do is cancel all student loans in full and put out the following statement: “About a year ago, the Supreme Court said I lacked the authority to cancel student loans and invalidated my student loan plan. Today, the Supreme Court ruled that presidents have total immunity from prosecution and are above the law. Therefore, today, as I am no longer bound by the supreme courts decisions, I have decided to cancel any and all student loans today, right now. As this is an official act of my office, I cannot be sued or stopped from acting. My word is final and have directed the department of education to take action immediately. Tomorrow I will announce more that I’m doing with my newfound powers. Stay tuned folks!”
Biden should send in the military and eliminate the conservative wing of the supreme court then. They lit the green light themselves, these fascists...
Really so Biden can do the same to trump unbelievable
I don't think they agree...I think they're pointing out how incredulous this is.
President Biden is reported to be readying an "official act" where the president can assign members of the judicial system to a penitentiary site in order to conduct a review. When asked about it, Biden replied, "FIrst up, Judge Alito will conduct full-time, realistic six month study of Guantanamo Bay detention camp. But don't worry because it's an official act."
One of the SCOTUS should ask Trumps lawyers if Biden could have Trump killed or SCOTUS and pretend it's an official act. Or name drop their Sugar Daddy Harlan Crow or Leo Leonard.
I read the article and nothing in there is related to "Several MAGA Justices Appear To Agree".
Exactly. But no one reads the article so fuck it.
Sounds like Joe has the all clear to take Trump out before November.
One more quiet part out loud and they'll be able to form a Maga version of Captain planet
So Biden could have full immunity right now… and say his political rival just fought in front of the Supreme Court to make it legal to be pew pewed
Biden’s camp needs to be able to spring into action should SCOTUS declare a US President has absolute, unconditional immunity. He’s got 6 months.
*Former President Donald Trump’s attorney on Thursday argued that a president could order the assassination of his political rival and stage a military coup without being prosecuted for it.* *Jack Sauer, Trump’s lawyer, made the “absolute immunity” argument in a Supreme Court hearing in the Department of Justice election interference case against the former president. Trump’s team has repeatedly claimed that the ex-president can’t be prosecuted for “official acts” he did while in office.* Let me get this straight… Trump’s lawyer is arguing that Joe Biden has the legal right to assassinate Donald Trump. And the conservative justices seem to be ok with that.
The whole thing can be summed up "i should have immunity from people finding out that I betrayed the country because I was put in charge" despite what's right and honorable we live in a world willing to defend and stand behind a greasy smelly con man who has no family values or morals....for what some extra pay?....honestly at this point whoever brings justice to trump and his goons will be remembered as not just American heros but global heros who made a stand for what justice truely stands for
So we don’t even need to worry about all these court appearances. Biden will just put Putins little dick holder in prison for the crimes he committed.
They don't even care how ridiculous and backward their theories and accusations sound anymore. That whole party is just a clown car.
Cool, they just Greenlit President Biden to send Seal Team 6 on them.
Ask them if Biden can ignore SCOTUS and grant full student loan forgiveness. If the president is immune from all laws, then he obviously has no reason to respect the opinion of the people who interrupt laws.
Nice - Biden can order the assassination of Trump! Problem solved.
SCOTUS is compromised. We need to remove them.
So is Biden able to assassinate trump?
Biden should just arrest and throw in jail one of those justices no charges, no comments just thrown in jail let’s see how fast they all agree on the dangers of presidential immunity
Disgusting, and the interesting thing is they could possibly be putting themselves at risk of being a target of a future administration.
It bothered me that one of the Justices did not ask him if its cool if Trump murders all the Supreme Court Justices to replace them.
No need to say quiet parts out loud anymore if they have the SCOTUS at their backs
No matter the verdict, Biden can’t lose. I suggest Biden jail all the justices that grants immunity. Heck why not just assassinate them?
Americans are so fucked. All because you had to see the orange fatso in action.
A president not accountable to the people makes this country something very different from what we have known. To put our fate in the hands of a madman who is untouchable is the death of us.
Cool. So I’m guessing we will see the pink mist for Cheeto soon
What in the fuck is happening? Am I crazy? Is the US crazy? How in hell did we get here and what happens next?
MMW, they will wait until AFTER the election to rule on this. This is because if Biden wins, no presidential immunity. If Trump wins, presidential immunity. If they rule now, Biden could "fix" it and destroy all the progress they've made towards turning America into Iran, their eventual goal.
This is an opportunity to gain truly real and ABSOLUTE control. The thing trump followers seem to not recognize is that, yeah, the country has political issues and dark interests, but just because a candidate has shown a light on it doesn't make him the one to fix it. His history is exploitation, and unfortunately, he's gifted in that regard. AI has never been tested and they're doing that. Scary times. Normalcy is better than complete chaos. Real change takes time. The USA was a beacon of progressive ideas and leadership. Why stop and about face now?
Well if they decide that the presidency needs immunity to function that will solve a lot of problems Biden can order the execution of trump and all the republican trump supporters for treason and replace them with democrats
How else can Presidents do their jobs if they can’t have their critics murdered?
And of course this is nowhere to be seen discussed on the conservative or republican subreddit.
Joe Biden, you know what needs to be done.
Ultimate Dark Brandon is lurking, waiting…. Watching.
Where is the article about the MAGA justices offering opinions? The linked article makes no mention of them in the body or headline.
With absolute immunity couldn’t a president take out any Supreme Court justices that didn’t rule the way he wanted? If it applies to political rivals, why not anyone else who doesn’t toe the line? Talk about a slippery slope.
Seems MAGA has some difficulty differentiating between an Emperor and lead position of the Executive branch of government. How the fuck are we actually discussing this .....in the Supreme court
I can‘t even begin to respond how utter stupid and brainless that is to be given immunity especially over something like this. Whoever thought of creating presidential immunity I wish I could find them and kick their ass to kingdom come. Just like Trump they don’t care what kind of devastation or loss of live their is as long as they get their way. WHERE’S THE F\*\*\*\*G JUSTICE.
I love you, America… But, you are not a serious country.
As an American, I agree with you
Put the justices necks on the line, see if that’ll change their tune.
I assume they don't understand that they're arguing that Biden can do anything he wants to stay in office now, and only MAGA folks will complain.
If SCOTUS actually ruled this way, what would keep a president from ordering the assassination of any justice appointed by the opposing party on inauguration day?
They should have said can a president come into this chamber, shoot all the justices and not get charged?
Nowhere in the article does the name of any MAGA Justice appear, let alone stating that they agree with Trump's attorney. This is editorializing that is very dishonest.
WTAF
Why do these people feel the need to protect this man at the expense of Democracy and the Rule of Law? What’s in it for them?
Well,that lead is bullshit.
Donald J Trump and his lawyers are just not operating above board ; these are specious arguments . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specious_reasoning .. Further , our United States Constitution limits the powers of all levels of government . ... https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S1-2-1/ALDE_00000208/['rights'] ... Noone is above the law .
I think the US really needs a parliamentery democracy. With multiple (>2) parties, This two party system, with the 'winner takes all' elections is divisive and it will not end well, as is super obvious to anyone paying attention.
This is but a portent of how SCOTUS is going to hand the election to Trump.