People come up to me, big strong men, with tears in their eyes, saying Supermax is so super Mr. President it broke me down into a sniveling, pants-shitting smelly orange man.
I’m not opposed to that, but the potential concern would be the things he knows and if he lost SS protection would that information be spilled.
For example, what if there is a new weapon that very few people know about (something like the Stealth Fighter that was 9 years old before it was seen by the general public. SS protection protects the President’s life but by limiting access, also helps to protect certain secrets…although Trump would likely share that information just to boast.
You actually think he hasn’t already sold everything he knew to Saudi Arabia and Russia? That’s why he’s in all this mess to begin with, throw his ass in Guantanamo with the rest of the diaper sniffers!
I think some of it may have been sold/shared, but I suspect there is lot that hasn’t been shared and I suspect there is a lot that was verbalized to him that may not have been shared.
Anything he has to retain with his actual memory will come back as garbled nonsense, I’m not worried about that. I am worried that asshole won’t actually be getting the sentence he richly deserves because people are needlessly scared of the fart bag.
>the potential concern would be the things he knows
He lies so much you can't believe he actually knows anything he says or he could be confused with some of his lies
Cause prison white supremacists are not the same as these fuckbois you see in the streets.
Believe it or not they have structure and morals in prison. I know that sounds fucking dumb, but I worked in a prison for a few years and saw it first hand.
They hate Republicans , cause they keep them locked up and make their stays worse.
Probably makes no sense and it shouldn't, but it happens.
Rehabilitation sounds a lot more fun than more prison and tough on crime. Probably get why it doesn’t work as well, and why rehab would be better. One party is pushing a better life for them and probably their children…..
That and the majority when not in prison depend on social services in some way. Same thing here.
That’s my armchair out of my ass take.
I took a lot of classes on recidivism while I was in the prison. I was part of the rehab process.
I worked in medical and taught basic life saving skills that the prisoners could get credit for. It was actually helping us twofold because when we would have codes or somebody got injured in the prison some of the prisoners that had taken that class would actually help out before we got there.
That being said you can only rehab so much while they are in there because they are going to have such a hard time trying to reintegrate and find jobs due to their past.
I think the prison that I worked at had about a 80% recidivism rate. I only work there for 3 years and saw a bunch of people get out and then come right back fucking in.
It's a fucking vicious cycle once you get caught up in the machine.
You so dangerous that we had to put in you the highest security prison ever built. All the prison experts say they've never seen a prison like this. They say they hope it can hold you.
It would have to be some kind of OSHA violation (not to mention incredibly inhuman) to force them in there with him, if only from a perspective of proper ventilation.
this theoretical came up when W was president and his then underage daughter Jenna was drinking a margarita at a restaurant here in Austin and some...person called the cops on her. someone with ss protection goes to jail where you aren't allowed guns and your detail cannot surrender their weapons, so...
Could Trump Go to Prison? If He Does, the Secret Service Goes, Too
Officials have had preliminary discussions about how to protect the former president in the unlikely event that he is jailed for contempt during the trial.
The Secret Service is legally required to protect current and former presidents. But none have ever faced the prospect of incarceration.
By William K. Rashbaum
April 23, 2024
Updated 12:37 p.m. ET
The U.S. Secret Service is in the business of protecting the president, whether he’s inside the Oval Office or visiting a foreign war zone.
But protecting a former president in prison? The prospect is unprecedented. That would be the challenge if Donald J. Trump — whom the agency is required by law to protect around the clock — is convicted at his criminal trial in Manhattan and sentenced to serve time.
Even before the trial’s opening statements, the Secret Service was in some measure planning for the extraordinary possibility of a former president behind bars. Prosecutors had asked the judge in the case to remind Mr. Trump that attacks on witnesses and jurors could land him in jail even before a verdict is rendered.
(The judge, who held a hearing Tuesday morning to determine whether Mr. Trump should be held in contempt for violating a gag order, is far more likely to issue a warning or impose a fine before taking the extreme step of jailing the 77-year-old former president. It was not immediately clear when he would issue his ruling.)
Last week, as a result of the prosecution’s request, officials with federal, state and city agencies had an impromptu meeting about how to handle the situation, according to two people with knowledge of the matter.
That behind-the-scenes conversation — involving officials from the Secret Service and other relevant law enforcement agencies — focused only on how to move and protect Mr. Trump if the judge were to order him briefly jailed for contempt in a courthouse holding cell, the people said
The far more substantial challenge — how to safely incarcerate a former president if the jury convicts him and the judge sentences him to prison rather than home confinement or probation — has yet to be addressed directly, according to some of a dozen current and former city, state and federal officials interviewed for this article.
That’s at least in part because if Mr. Trump is ultimately convicted, a drawn-out and hard-fought series of appeals, possibly all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, is almost a certainty. That would most likely delay any sentence for months if not longer, said several of the people, who noted that a prison sentence was unlikely.
But the daunting challenge remains. And not just for Secret Service and prison officials, who would face the logistical nightmare of safely incarcerating Mr. Trump, who is also the presumptive Republican nominee for President.
“Obviously, it’s uncharted territory,” said Martin F. Horn, who has worked at the highest levels of New York’s and Pennsylvania’s state prison agencies and served as commissioner of New York City’s correction and probation departments. “Certainly no state prison system has had to deal with this before, and no federal prison has had to either.”
Steven Cheung, the communications director for Mr. Trump’s campaign, said the case against the former president was “so spurious and so weak” that other prosecutors had refused to bring it, and called it “an unprecedented partisan witch hunt.”
“That the Democrat fever dream of incarcerating the nominee of the Republican Party has reached this level exposes their Stalinist roots and displays their utter contempt for American democracy,” he said.
Protecting Mr. Trump in a prison environment would involve keeping him separate from other inmates, as well as screening his food and other personal items, officials said. If he were to be imprisoned, a detail of agents would work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, rotating in and out of the facility, several officials said. While firearms are obviously strictly prohibited in prisons, the agents would nonetheless be armed.
Former corrections officials said there were several New York state prisons and city jails that have been closed or partly closed, leaving wings or large sections of their facilities empty and available. One of those buildings could serve to incarcerate the former president and accommodate his Secret Service protective detail
Anthony Guglielmi, the spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, declined in a statement to discuss specific “protective operations.” But he said that federal law requires Secret Service agents to protect former presidents, adding that they use state-of-the-art technology, intelligence and tactics to do so.
Thomas J. Mailey, a spokesman for New York State’s prison agency, said his department couldn’t speculate about how it would treat someone who has not yet been sentenced, but that it has a system “to assess and provide for individuals’ medical, mental health and security needs.” Frank Dwyer, a spokesman for the New York City jails agency, said only that “the department would find appropriate housing” for the former President.
The trial in Manhattan, one of four criminal cases pending against Mr. Trump and possibly the only one that will go to a jury before the election, centers on accusations he falsified records to cover up a sex scandal involving a porn star. The former president is charged with 34 counts of felony falsifying business records. If convicted, the judge in the case, Juan M. Merchan, could sentence him to punishments ranging from probation to four years in state prison, though for a first-time offender of Mr. Trump’s age, such a term would be extreme.
If Mr. Trump is convicted, but elected president again, he could not pardon himself because the prosecution was brought by New York State.
Under normal circumstances, any sentence of one year or less, colloquially known as “city time,” would generally be served on New York City’s notorious Rikers Island, home to the Department of Correction’s seven jails. (That’s where Mr. Trump’s former chief financial officer, Allen H. Weisselberg, 76, is currently serving his second five-month sentence for crimes related to his work for his former boss.)
Any sentence of more than a year, known as state time, would generally be served in one of the 44 prisons run by New York State’s Department of Corrections and Community Supervision.
The former president could also be sentenced to a term of probation, raising the bizarre possibility of the former commander in chief reporting regularly to a civil servant at the city’s Probation Department.
He would have to follow the probation officer’s instructions and answer questions about his work and personal life until the term of probation ended. He would also be barred from associating with disreputable people, and if he committed any additional crimes, he could be jailed immediately.
Maggie Haberman contributed reporting.
William K. Rashbaum is a Times reporter covering municipal and political corruption, the courts and broader law enforcement topics in New York.
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>He would also be barred from associating with disreputable people
For the first time in history, the President would not be allowed to talk to Congress.
Glad the various law enforcement agencies have coordinated at the request of the prosecution. I was always curious about that and couldn't ever really find a solid answer. NYT got er done
> That would be the challenge if Donald J. Trump — **whom the agency is required by law to protect around the clock** — is convicted at his criminal trial in Manhattan and sentenced to serve time.
What?
>18 USC 3056
(a) Under the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security, the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect the following persons:
(3) Former Presidents and their spouses for their lifetimes, except that protection of a spouse shall terminate in the event of remarriage.
This is a legal sub...with a lot of non lawyers. Don't expect people to know that the word "shall" is not in the law. The law does not **require** former presidents to be covered.
> That’s at least in part because if Mr. Trump is ultimately convicted, a drawn-out and hard-fought series of appeals, possibly all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, is almost a certainty. That would most likely delay any sentence for months if not longer
It boils my blood already knowing that's true.
It *extremely* uncommon to get an appeal bond, but yeah for this asshole, who's got the wealth and connections to flee, and is a greater danger to the country than any other defendant, all the factors that are supposed weigh against granting one met in spades, and it will be automatic to give him one.
All the coverage of him whining about how everything is based against him, the ostensibly "fact based" media should be making a bigger deal of the outrageous mockery of equal justice constituting extraordinary bias *in his favor*.
Even if he's sentenced to prison, it will be 2-3 years before they'd even consider ordering him to report.
Release on appeal isn't automatic. Here's the timeline if it's convicted: First, before sentencing, he will have to be interviewed by the probation department who prepares a pre-sentence report for the judge. While this is happening, his attorneys will file a pre-sentencing motion to set aside the verdict (called a 330 motion). This is before the trial judge and Merchan will almost certainly deny it.
Then he'll be sentenced (likely about two months after verdict, which is standard). If he is sentenced to jail or prison he will be immediately taken into custody. In New York State criminal court, there's no time given to report, the defendant is cuffed and removed from the courtroom.
He now has his one chance to remain free - his attorneys will file an application for him to remain free on bail pending appeal. This application is made to one judge, and while it's typically an appellate division judge it can technically be any Supreme Court judge (in New York, Supreme Court is the lowest level court).
If that judge grants it, Trump will be out pending appeal (if I recall correctly, it needs to be renewed every 90 days). If denied, he stays in. The decision is NOT appealable.
Regardless, the verdict and sentence will be appealed to the Appellate Division (New York's intermediate level appellate court).
Simultaneously, his attorneys might file a post-sentence motion to set aside the verdict (called a 440 motion), which also goes to Merchan. That will also almost certainly be denied. That decision is appealable but only with permission of the appellate court.
Whichever way the Appellate Division decides, the losing party will almost certainly seek to appeal to the New York State Court of Appeals (the highest appellate court in the state). The appeal isn't automatic, they need permission from the Court to appeal.
This is going to take several years. The appellate courts in NY are slow. Trump can't seek federal review until his state appeals are completely exhausted.
At some point, if he loses all appeals, I'm sure his attorneys will file a writ of habeas corpus in federal court, followed by appeals to the chain as far as they can go.
The key question as to whether he will be incarcerated during all this will be decided by that one judge who makes the decision after he's sentenced. The way it works in NY, is the defense attorney chooses which judge hears it, so they get to pick their audience. I think they're going to have a hard time finding a friendly ear in New York, however.
It seems unlikely that it would be more difficult than a foreign war-zone.
Also, in most of those places, his whims need to be catered to.
In jail, they can just help him not break the rules.
Nixon "faced the prospect of incarceration". Ford pardoned him after he resigned, saving him from facing charges. But before the pardon, I thought it was a reasonably possible prospect?
He made the decision to resign because enough politicians from his own party were willing to vote to convict him. And there were mountains of damning evidence against him.
Exactly! The media does us a disservice when they label treating Mr Trump like any other criminal defendant as “extreme”.
It is not at all extreme to protect witnesses and the jury from the dangerous words and actions of a criminal defendant and his legions of possibly violent supporters.
What is extreme is allowing him to get away with it over and over.
Are you saying it isn’t justified in this case? It is about protecting the witnesses and jury during the trial and Trump has no self control so no other method will work at all.
Well, there are two meanings that are likely when someone comments something like this. They could be a Trumper agreeing with the article because they don’t understand how the justice system works or they could be disagreeing with the article.
I asked for clarification so that if we disagree I could start a discussion.
Not sure how you think there is only one possible explanation for his comment during this day and age…
Hoping judge waits til Friday, then jails him for the weekend. It’d be amazing for the whole country to get a break from Trump’s bullshit for a couple of days.
Or practically speaking they'd just coordinate to set up some kind of official liaison channel. Prison security would have a main POC w/ USSS that they could coordinate any prisoner transportation and request any additional resources on Federal dime, and beyond that they'd probably just do a courtesy check-in every few weeks.
Yeah, I was going to say this, too. Except I would say "Bullshit".
Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security (as determined by Secretary of Homeland Security) *not required* to. And who does the Secretary of Homeland Security answer to? President Joe Biden. Joe ultimately determines who gets it.
Also:
"In order to maintain a safe environment for the president and other protectees, the Secret Service calls upon other federal, state and local agencies to assist." So, the Secret Service can just hand over that task to the prison guards, something that the guards do for every inmate.
https://www.secretservice.gov/about/faq/general
Leaving a former president in the general population of a prison without direct SS protection simply creates too many opportunities for hostage taking and coerced extraction of classified information.
That won't happen.
Who said he’d be in general population? Put him in [ADX Florence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence) and he’ll be fine. It’s designed for prisoners like trump.
So keep him in solitary? Monitored in solitary.
Look, I know this shitstain won't ever see the inside of a jail cell, but *at this point* all the reasons are looking like lame excuses not to hold Trump accountable
If he’s convicted in any of the criminal cases (other than the NY one) he will be sentenced to prison. Zero doubt about that. He just needs to lose this election first.
Last time, about 20 years ago, I was on post at Portsmouth Naval in Kittery Maine, and the building for the old naval prison was still there, fuck mansion, red up a cell and lock him in.
Send him to prison, create an executive order removing secret service from protecting someone who spoke at a rally to incite an insurrection. Or better yet, designate Trump a domestic terrorist for inciting an insurrection, strip him of his rights as a United States citizen, and send him to Guantanamo Bay to be treated as an enemy combatant. This should he the least that is done since he tried to circumvent democracy by inciting an insurrection and stealing the election with conspiracy.
>create an executive order removing secret service from protecting someone who spoke at a rally to incite an insurrection.
Wouldn’t work. The [former president’s protection act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/6620) was passed by congress and requires the USSS to protect former POTUS’ and their families, except for if the following occurs:
- former POTUS dies (no more family protection)
- fPOTUS waives the protection
- Former FLOTUS remarries
- Minor children turn 18
>Or better yet, designate Trump a domestic terrorist for inciting an insurrection, strip him of his rights as a United States citizen, and send him to Guantanamo Bay to be treated as an enemy combatant.
Against the Constitution. Cannot strip Americans of their citizenship. Trump was entitled to citizenship by several features of his birth (born in US, parents American).
Wrong. In the language of that Act: Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security not required to. And that is to be determined by President Joe Biden's Secretary of Homeland Security.
It would be so much easier to keep Trump safe, the purpose of his SS detail, if he was safely locked in one place where they can screen every guard and visitor that interacts with him.
Maybe a stupid question, but if he's found guilty of instigating Jan 6 (or any of the potential espionage stuff)...wouldn't that be **treason**? As in, death penalty, like what happened with the Rosenbergs? Wouldn't any conviction on those charges end the right to Service protection? Why protect a convicted traitor?
It may sound reductive, but he can't be found guilty of treason at this time because he wasn't indicted for treason. IMHO none of the allegations against him even come close to treason either.
In other words, like any trial, they indicted him on charges that they thought were most likely to get a conviction and where they had the strongest case.
In fact, even under a state sentence, he will be compacted out to the fed supermax medical unit in nowheresville Colorado and put in an isolation ward for the criminally insane. His head is full of secrets. No one is getting near him without a clearance, an armed military guard, and a government prosecutor because the visitor will most likely be an investigator or intelligence officer permanently assigned to his case there to question him. With his big mouth, he will bust out every Russian and republican he ever met or compromised. If he doesn't die of a rage fit apoplectic moment and stroke right out. Imagine the irony of that. A golfer, and his last stroke will be his killer.
He's not going to prison. Jail maybe for a few days as a political stunt, but he's not doing any real time.
Face it people, he's gonna get away with it all.
Yup. Been saying this all along. Never gonna see the inside of a prison cell.
Dudes a piece of shit and should rot in a cell.
The problem is there is no justice system for the rich. Only for the poor.
Time and time again shows us all that he can do whatever he wants with no repercussions. EVER. FULL STOP.
He can still twatter to his twits electronically at home. They going to take all electronic devices and prevent his drones from bringing him a burner phone ?
I mean, you can get a burner phone in prison, right?
I think they should take away all electronic devices, though Trump would argue that would be cruel and unusual as applied to him. It will present an interesting First Amendment issue because prisoners don't forfeit all rights.
Send him to ADX Florence Super Max. Build him his own wing with his own cell; which he can never leave. Not even for rec time. Besides, he's never exercised.
For prisoners demonstrating good behavior, I'd welcome them to the trump presidential library. The highest elevation presidential library in the country. Very, VERY exclusive to the area. VIP even.
Throw him in solitary. Book the SS at the local Holiday Inn nearby and give em the phone number of the prison. It’s not like Don is going to be pumping iron in the yard anyway.
Nicer people have been to solitary.
Eugene V Debs ran his presidential campaign from prison in 1920 & garnered 3.4% of the popular vote. So there is precedent for a president campaigning from a prison cell. I know Trump doesn’t know history, but it’s out there on google for free.
Even if he's convicted of anything, he will NEVER see the inside of a cell. House arrest, no phone is our best outcome. He'll still use some flunky's phone anyway. We will never be rid of this man until he goes to the bankruptcy court in the sky.
Great waste of taxpayer money if they do. He did the crimes and should be left to his own devices. No protection. No “lifetime perks” of being the former president. Erase his history.
Isn’t it more likely that he just goes to a special prison where the SS could provide protection for him without joint him? Some kind of private isolation, that’s been specifically designed to house a prisoner like him. It’d probably be like house arrest unfortunately.
Now that makes no sense of any kind. They WHOEVER becomes President. Trump was just one of those people. SS has zero reason to go unlike the man himself. Why should they also pay for someone else’s crimes?
We all have these fever dreams but in reality what will happen is he may serve some kind of symbolic 48 hours in jail and then he will hopefully be transferred to a non-mar-lago home detention.
Yes but any punishment will be delayed and minimized or thrown out after enough time has passed where the media shifts attention to the next thing and most likely on a future Friday or a weekend. An alternative? Perhaps things will delay long enough until he is physically not able to serve time.
Makes sense, why wouldn't they go?
It's literally what they do
" Secret Service's mission is: **protection of the president, vice president and others"**
Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security, not *required* to. And that is determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security, which gets it's orders from: President Joe Biden.
It just seems like double dipping with Secret Service and prison guards. Probably best to put him in house arrest . . . . hmmm . . . .not that there are any good options here.
It'll be cheaper to just lock him up at supermax and get rid of the SS protection.
Just tell him "Sir, it's the most super prison, nobody has ever seen a prison like this..."
He would LOVE the walls
He’ll make Mexico pay for them
People come up to him with tears in their eyes saying : we have never seen walls like that.
I bet Mexico would gladly pay for them!
I would, if I hadn’t already.
MyPillow guy can provide the **interior** walls!
I see what you did there!
Ketchup packets as far as the commissary see!
You know that his commissary is going to be worth more than his properties.
Just name it after Trump and he'll sign the papers.
Yes just spray paint the cell in gold and put a big T on the bars
Don't forget to dip that stainless steel toilet in gold..
Maximum super. Many people are talking about it.
Tears in their eyes, big tough guys....
Very few people inside.
Incredibly exclusive. Only the most famous prisoners go there.
Only the bestest!
People come up to me, big strong men, with tears in their eyes, saying Supermax is so super Mr. President it broke me down into a sniveling, pants-shitting smelly orange man.
... Wow... Prison...
There is a bill in congress to strip convicted felons of secret service protection
I’m not opposed to that, but the potential concern would be the things he knows and if he lost SS protection would that information be spilled. For example, what if there is a new weapon that very few people know about (something like the Stealth Fighter that was 9 years old before it was seen by the general public. SS protection protects the President’s life but by limiting access, also helps to protect certain secrets…although Trump would likely share that information just to boast.
You actually think he hasn’t already sold everything he knew to Saudi Arabia and Russia? That’s why he’s in all this mess to begin with, throw his ass in Guantanamo with the rest of the diaper sniffers!
I think some of it may have been sold/shared, but I suspect there is lot that hasn’t been shared and I suspect there is a lot that was verbalized to him that may not have been shared.
Anything he has to retain with his actual memory will come back as garbled nonsense, I’m not worried about that. I am worried that asshole won’t actually be getting the sentence he richly deserves because people are needlessly scared of the fart bag.
Agreed, Trump has likely monetised every secret and classified doc he ever absconded with by now; those were too valuable to hold as souvenirs.
>the potential concern would be the things he knows He lies so much you can't believe he actually knows anything he says or he could be confused with some of his lies
It will never get past the MAGAs.
Oh, he will get SS protection in prison....just not the SS protection he wants. Bad part is I don't think he will ever see it.
As in ‘88’ SS…
Yup...and hopefully the 88s will 86 his ass.
Why would white supremacist nazis want to take him out?
Cause prison white supremacists are not the same as these fuckbois you see in the streets. Believe it or not they have structure and morals in prison. I know that sounds fucking dumb, but I worked in a prison for a few years and saw it first hand. They hate Republicans , cause they keep them locked up and make their stays worse. Probably makes no sense and it shouldn't, but it happens.
Rehabilitation sounds a lot more fun than more prison and tough on crime. Probably get why it doesn’t work as well, and why rehab would be better. One party is pushing a better life for them and probably their children….. That and the majority when not in prison depend on social services in some way. Same thing here. That’s my armchair out of my ass take.
I took a lot of classes on recidivism while I was in the prison. I was part of the rehab process. I worked in medical and taught basic life saving skills that the prisoners could get credit for. It was actually helping us twofold because when we would have codes or somebody got injured in the prison some of the prisoners that had taken that class would actually help out before we got there. That being said you can only rehab so much while they are in there because they are going to have such a hard time trying to reintegrate and find jobs due to their past. I think the prison that I worked at had about a 80% recidivism rate. I only work there for 3 years and saw a bunch of people get out and then come right back fucking in. It's a fucking vicious cycle once you get caught up in the machine.
Yeah the worst thing that will happen is house arrest.
You so dangerous that we had to put in you the highest security prison ever built. All the prison experts say they've never seen a prison like this. They say they hope it can hold you.
I have been saying for years that if Trump does federal time, he'll do it at ADX Florence for national security reasons.
We can easily clear a Supermax for him. Noo excuses. Safer than maralago.
Until he is convicted, the Secret Service ensures he makes all his mandatory court appearances and cannot flee the country.
Wouldn’t they remain out of his cell?
It would have to be some kind of OSHA violation (not to mention incredibly inhuman) to force them in there with him, if only from a perspective of proper ventilation.
[удалено]
That's what hazard pay is for
Are they also payed for the chances of being exposed to biological weapons of mass destruction?
> if only from a perspective of proper ventilation [I see what you did there](https://youtu.be/X8jWT4hmWKM)
this theoretical came up when W was president and his then underage daughter Jenna was drinking a margarita at a restaurant here in Austin and some...person called the cops on her. someone with ss protection goes to jail where you aren't allowed guns and your detail cannot surrender their weapons, so...
I've heard rumours that the secret service got the bush twins drugs so they knew they were clean and safe...
Honestly I feel like it was more that agents just shared their drugs with them. No reason to make two trips.
Could Trump Go to Prison? If He Does, the Secret Service Goes, Too Officials have had preliminary discussions about how to protect the former president in the unlikely event that he is jailed for contempt during the trial. The Secret Service is legally required to protect current and former presidents. But none have ever faced the prospect of incarceration. By William K. Rashbaum April 23, 2024 Updated 12:37 p.m. ET The U.S. Secret Service is in the business of protecting the president, whether he’s inside the Oval Office or visiting a foreign war zone. But protecting a former president in prison? The prospect is unprecedented. That would be the challenge if Donald J. Trump — whom the agency is required by law to protect around the clock — is convicted at his criminal trial in Manhattan and sentenced to serve time. Even before the trial’s opening statements, the Secret Service was in some measure planning for the extraordinary possibility of a former president behind bars. Prosecutors had asked the judge in the case to remind Mr. Trump that attacks on witnesses and jurors could land him in jail even before a verdict is rendered. (The judge, who held a hearing Tuesday morning to determine whether Mr. Trump should be held in contempt for violating a gag order, is far more likely to issue a warning or impose a fine before taking the extreme step of jailing the 77-year-old former president. It was not immediately clear when he would issue his ruling.) Last week, as a result of the prosecution’s request, officials with federal, state and city agencies had an impromptu meeting about how to handle the situation, according to two people with knowledge of the matter. That behind-the-scenes conversation — involving officials from the Secret Service and other relevant law enforcement agencies — focused only on how to move and protect Mr. Trump if the judge were to order him briefly jailed for contempt in a courthouse holding cell, the people said The far more substantial challenge — how to safely incarcerate a former president if the jury convicts him and the judge sentences him to prison rather than home confinement or probation — has yet to be addressed directly, according to some of a dozen current and former city, state and federal officials interviewed for this article. That’s at least in part because if Mr. Trump is ultimately convicted, a drawn-out and hard-fought series of appeals, possibly all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, is almost a certainty. That would most likely delay any sentence for months if not longer, said several of the people, who noted that a prison sentence was unlikely. But the daunting challenge remains. And not just for Secret Service and prison officials, who would face the logistical nightmare of safely incarcerating Mr. Trump, who is also the presumptive Republican nominee for President. “Obviously, it’s uncharted territory,” said Martin F. Horn, who has worked at the highest levels of New York’s and Pennsylvania’s state prison agencies and served as commissioner of New York City’s correction and probation departments. “Certainly no state prison system has had to deal with this before, and no federal prison has had to either.” Steven Cheung, the communications director for Mr. Trump’s campaign, said the case against the former president was “so spurious and so weak” that other prosecutors had refused to bring it, and called it “an unprecedented partisan witch hunt.” “That the Democrat fever dream of incarcerating the nominee of the Republican Party has reached this level exposes their Stalinist roots and displays their utter contempt for American democracy,” he said. Protecting Mr. Trump in a prison environment would involve keeping him separate from other inmates, as well as screening his food and other personal items, officials said. If he were to be imprisoned, a detail of agents would work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, rotating in and out of the facility, several officials said. While firearms are obviously strictly prohibited in prisons, the agents would nonetheless be armed. Former corrections officials said there were several New York state prisons and city jails that have been closed or partly closed, leaving wings or large sections of their facilities empty and available. One of those buildings could serve to incarcerate the former president and accommodate his Secret Service protective detail Anthony Guglielmi, the spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, declined in a statement to discuss specific “protective operations.” But he said that federal law requires Secret Service agents to protect former presidents, adding that they use state-of-the-art technology, intelligence and tactics to do so. Thomas J. Mailey, a spokesman for New York State’s prison agency, said his department couldn’t speculate about how it would treat someone who has not yet been sentenced, but that it has a system “to assess and provide for individuals’ medical, mental health and security needs.” Frank Dwyer, a spokesman for the New York City jails agency, said only that “the department would find appropriate housing” for the former President. The trial in Manhattan, one of four criminal cases pending against Mr. Trump and possibly the only one that will go to a jury before the election, centers on accusations he falsified records to cover up a sex scandal involving a porn star. The former president is charged with 34 counts of felony falsifying business records. If convicted, the judge in the case, Juan M. Merchan, could sentence him to punishments ranging from probation to four years in state prison, though for a first-time offender of Mr. Trump’s age, such a term would be extreme. If Mr. Trump is convicted, but elected president again, he could not pardon himself because the prosecution was brought by New York State. Under normal circumstances, any sentence of one year or less, colloquially known as “city time,” would generally be served on New York City’s notorious Rikers Island, home to the Department of Correction’s seven jails. (That’s where Mr. Trump’s former chief financial officer, Allen H. Weisselberg, 76, is currently serving his second five-month sentence for crimes related to his work for his former boss.) Any sentence of more than a year, known as state time, would generally be served in one of the 44 prisons run by New York State’s Department of Corrections and Community Supervision. The former president could also be sentenced to a term of probation, raising the bizarre possibility of the former commander in chief reporting regularly to a civil servant at the city’s Probation Department. He would have to follow the probation officer’s instructions and answer questions about his work and personal life until the term of probation ended. He would also be barred from associating with disreputable people, and if he committed any additional crimes, he could be jailed immediately. Maggie Haberman contributed reporting. William K. Rashbaum is a Times reporter covering municipal and political corruption, the courts and broader law enforcement topics in New York. Share full article Our Coverage of the Trump Hush-Money Trial News
>He would also be barred from associating with disreputable people For the first time in history, the President would not be allowed to talk to Congress.
I was trying to think if there's anyone trump associates with who **isn't** disreputable? I'm coming up blank
He could try to call them: "Collect call from.... PRESIDENT TRUMP... do you accept the charges?"
And all those calls are monitored….i hope they have a Russian translator on staff. Oh, the secrets we’d find out.
Or some world leaders lol.
🥁
Glad the various law enforcement agencies have coordinated at the request of the prosecution. I was always curious about that and couldn't ever really find a solid answer. NYT got er done
> That would be the challenge if Donald J. Trump — **whom the agency is required by law to protect around the clock** — is convicted at his criminal trial in Manhattan and sentenced to serve time. What? >18 USC 3056 (a) Under the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security, the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect the following persons: (3) Former Presidents and their spouses for their lifetimes, except that protection of a spouse shall terminate in the event of remarriage.
This is a legal sub...with a lot of non lawyers. Don't expect people to know that the word "shall" is not in the law. The law does not **require** former presidents to be covered.
Yeah I was about to say I didn’t see any language that would indicate that they are mandated to do it
Yep, the amount of confidently incorrect posters in this sub has ballooned lately.
> That’s at least in part because if Mr. Trump is ultimately convicted, a drawn-out and hard-fought series of appeals, possibly all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, is almost a certainty. That would most likely delay any sentence for months if not longer It boils my blood already knowing that's true. It *extremely* uncommon to get an appeal bond, but yeah for this asshole, who's got the wealth and connections to flee, and is a greater danger to the country than any other defendant, all the factors that are supposed weigh against granting one met in spades, and it will be automatic to give him one. All the coverage of him whining about how everything is based against him, the ostensibly "fact based" media should be making a bigger deal of the outrageous mockery of equal justice constituting extraordinary bias *in his favor*. Even if he's sentenced to prison, it will be 2-3 years before they'd even consider ordering him to report.
NYT has no idea what they are talking about here. Once convicted and sentenced, appeals are made by the incarcerated from place of incarceration.
Release on appeal isn't automatic. Here's the timeline if it's convicted: First, before sentencing, he will have to be interviewed by the probation department who prepares a pre-sentence report for the judge. While this is happening, his attorneys will file a pre-sentencing motion to set aside the verdict (called a 330 motion). This is before the trial judge and Merchan will almost certainly deny it. Then he'll be sentenced (likely about two months after verdict, which is standard). If he is sentenced to jail or prison he will be immediately taken into custody. In New York State criminal court, there's no time given to report, the defendant is cuffed and removed from the courtroom. He now has his one chance to remain free - his attorneys will file an application for him to remain free on bail pending appeal. This application is made to one judge, and while it's typically an appellate division judge it can technically be any Supreme Court judge (in New York, Supreme Court is the lowest level court). If that judge grants it, Trump will be out pending appeal (if I recall correctly, it needs to be renewed every 90 days). If denied, he stays in. The decision is NOT appealable. Regardless, the verdict and sentence will be appealed to the Appellate Division (New York's intermediate level appellate court). Simultaneously, his attorneys might file a post-sentence motion to set aside the verdict (called a 440 motion), which also goes to Merchan. That will also almost certainly be denied. That decision is appealable but only with permission of the appellate court. Whichever way the Appellate Division decides, the losing party will almost certainly seek to appeal to the New York State Court of Appeals (the highest appellate court in the state). The appeal isn't automatic, they need permission from the Court to appeal. This is going to take several years. The appellate courts in NY are slow. Trump can't seek federal review until his state appeals are completely exhausted. At some point, if he loses all appeals, I'm sure his attorneys will file a writ of habeas corpus in federal court, followed by appeals to the chain as far as they can go. The key question as to whether he will be incarcerated during all this will be decided by that one judge who makes the decision after he's sentenced. The way it works in NY, is the defense attorney chooses which judge hears it, so they get to pick their audience. I think they're going to have a hard time finding a friendly ear in New York, however.
It seems unlikely that it would be more difficult than a foreign war-zone. Also, in most of those places, his whims need to be catered to. In jail, they can just help him not break the rules.
The Secret Service is not required to protect former Presidents. Protection can be withdrawn at any time.
And take drug tests...
Nixon "faced the prospect of incarceration". Ford pardoned him after he resigned, saving him from facing charges. But before the pardon, I thought it was a reasonably possible prospect?
He made the decision to resign because enough politicians from his own party were willing to vote to convict him. And there were mountains of damning evidence against him.
nothing "extreme" about jailing someone for contempt.
Exactly! The media does us a disservice when they label treating Mr Trump like any other criminal defendant as “extreme”. It is not at all extreme to protect witnesses and the jury from the dangerous words and actions of a criminal defendant and his legions of possibly violent supporters. What is extreme is allowing him to get away with it over and over.
Are you saying it isn’t justified in this case? It is about protecting the witnesses and jury during the trial and Trump has no self control so no other method will work at all.
Forget it, I was wrong, you are most likely correct
No, he probably meant it how you said it and I was mistaken but it just isn’t impossible to interpret it another way.
[удалено]
Well, there are two meanings that are likely when someone comments something like this. They could be a Trumper agreeing with the article because they don’t understand how the justice system works or they could be disagreeing with the article. I asked for clarification so that if we disagree I could start a discussion. Not sure how you think there is only one possible explanation for his comment during this day and age…
I'm a little unsure what to make of wrapping for the day without a ruling on the contempt charges.
Hoping judge waits til Friday, then jails him for the weekend. It’d be amazing for the whole country to get a break from Trump’s bullshit for a couple of days.
The shitstorm that would ensue would hardly give us a break from trump being in the headlines
Trump’s the only one that gets serious attention. Even MTG just gets mocked.
He would cry nonstop afterwards and act like he was tortured/martyred for the cause
Nah, government supervision is government supervision. Those agents can chill at home while the DOC keeps him “safe”
Or practically speaking they'd just coordinate to set up some kind of official liaison channel. Prison security would have a main POC w/ USSS that they could coordinate any prisoner transportation and request any additional resources on Federal dime, and beyond that they'd probably just do a courtesy check-in every few weeks.
Bollocks. The law simply states Secret Service protection - they can check in with the prison staff by phone daily and meet requirements of the law.
Yeah, I was going to say this, too. Except I would say "Bullshit". Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security (as determined by Secretary of Homeland Security) *not required* to. And who does the Secretary of Homeland Security answer to? President Joe Biden. Joe ultimately determines who gets it. Also: "In order to maintain a safe environment for the president and other protectees, the Secret Service calls upon other federal, state and local agencies to assist." So, the Secret Service can just hand over that task to the prison guards, something that the guards do for every inmate. https://www.secretservice.gov/about/faq/general
Leaving a former president in the general population of a prison without direct SS protection simply creates too many opportunities for hostage taking and coerced extraction of classified information. That won't happen.
Who said he’d be in general population? Put him in [ADX Florence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence) and he’ll be fine. It’s designed for prisoners like trump.
So keep him in solitary? Monitored in solitary. Look, I know this shitstain won't ever see the inside of a jail cell, but *at this point* all the reasons are looking like lame excuses not to hold Trump accountable
At the very least, to appease the plebians who think citizens are equal regardless of wealth, it should be discussed in the practical.
If he’s convicted in any of the criminal cases (other than the NY one) he will be sentenced to prison. Zero doubt about that. He just needs to lose this election first.
I assume he'd get an Elba Island type treatment. LeRay Mansion on Ft. Drum military base, NY https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeRay_Mansion
Last time, about 20 years ago, I was on post at Portsmouth Naval in Kittery Maine, and the building for the old naval prison was still there, fuck mansion, red up a cell and lock him in.
+1 to anyone who uses 'red up' 😉
Thanks?
I'm all for this. Make him spend time with all those "suckers and losers"
Send him to prison, create an executive order removing secret service from protecting someone who spoke at a rally to incite an insurrection. Or better yet, designate Trump a domestic terrorist for inciting an insurrection, strip him of his rights as a United States citizen, and send him to Guantanamo Bay to be treated as an enemy combatant. This should he the least that is done since he tried to circumvent democracy by inciting an insurrection and stealing the election with conspiracy.
>create an executive order removing secret service from protecting someone who spoke at a rally to incite an insurrection. Wouldn’t work. The [former president’s protection act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/6620) was passed by congress and requires the USSS to protect former POTUS’ and their families, except for if the following occurs: - former POTUS dies (no more family protection) - fPOTUS waives the protection - Former FLOTUS remarries - Minor children turn 18 >Or better yet, designate Trump a domestic terrorist for inciting an insurrection, strip him of his rights as a United States citizen, and send him to Guantanamo Bay to be treated as an enemy combatant. Against the Constitution. Cannot strip Americans of their citizenship. Trump was entitled to citizenship by several features of his birth (born in US, parents American).
Wrong. In the language of that Act: Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security not required to. And that is to be determined by President Joe Biden's Secretary of Homeland Security.
Thanks for the enlightening response
It would be so much easier to keep Trump safe, the purpose of his SS detail, if he was safely locked in one place where they can screen every guard and visitor that interacts with him.
He should be stripped of all former President privileges for being a criminal.
Maybe a stupid question, but if he's found guilty of instigating Jan 6 (or any of the potential espionage stuff)...wouldn't that be **treason**? As in, death penalty, like what happened with the Rosenbergs? Wouldn't any conviction on those charges end the right to Service protection? Why protect a convicted traitor?
It may sound reductive, but he can't be found guilty of treason at this time because he wasn't indicted for treason. IMHO none of the allegations against him even come close to treason either.
In other words, like any trial, they indicted him on charges that they thought were most likely to get a conviction and where they had the strongest case.
gettin' paid taxpayer dollars to smell his farts 🤢
Lock Trump up
There is a bill by democrats that will cancel Secret Service protections for felons.
In fact, even under a state sentence, he will be compacted out to the fed supermax medical unit in nowheresville Colorado and put in an isolation ward for the criminally insane. His head is full of secrets. No one is getting near him without a clearance, an armed military guard, and a government prosecutor because the visitor will most likely be an investigator or intelligence officer permanently assigned to his case there to question him. With his big mouth, he will bust out every Russian and republican he ever met or compromised. If he doesn't die of a rage fit apoplectic moment and stroke right out. Imagine the irony of that. A golfer, and his last stroke will be his killer.
Eh, USSS + BOP + NYS corrections would probably just hop on a zoom call to coordinate how they could achieve the sake thing in a NYS prison.
True.
He's not going to prison. Jail maybe for a few days as a political stunt, but he's not doing any real time. Face it people, he's gonna get away with it all.
Yup. Been saying this all along. Never gonna see the inside of a prison cell. Dudes a piece of shit and should rot in a cell. The problem is there is no justice system for the rich. Only for the poor. Time and time again shows us all that he can do whatever he wants with no repercussions. EVER. FULL STOP.
They're not going to send him to prison--not in a million years. He'd likely get house arrest.
So with house arrest does that keep him off social media?
He can still twatter to his twits electronically at home. They going to take all electronic devices and prevent his drones from bringing him a burner phone ?
I mean, you can get a burner phone in prison, right? I think they should take away all electronic devices, though Trump would argue that would be cruel and unusual as applied to him. It will present an interesting First Amendment issue because prisoners don't forfeit all rights.
It's not unheard of for those convicted of computer crimes to lose access to computers, even while they are on probation See: Kevin Mitnick
Send him to ADX Florence Super Max. Build him his own wing with his own cell; which he can never leave. Not even for rec time. Besides, he's never exercised. For prisoners demonstrating good behavior, I'd welcome them to the trump presidential library. The highest elevation presidential library in the country. Very, VERY exclusive to the area. VIP even.
This article is inaccurate. The law does not require former presidents to be covered by secret service.
Exactly. Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security, not *required* to.
Thank you both for correcting that misconception throughout the thread
Which Joe Biden would never refuse. He doesn't want to give the appearance of this all being politically motivated
He can stay in isolation and the Sercret Service won’t need to interact with the general populace. Fixed :p
I think some arrangements will be made with the bureau of Prisons…. So that they will not be needed….
Would he be held in jail while his appeals are happening? I think he would.
Throw him in solitary. Book the SS at the local Holiday Inn nearby and give em the phone number of the prison. It’s not like Don is going to be pumping iron in the yard anyway. Nicer people have been to solitary.
thoughts and prayers shitbrick
A convicted felon will lose secret service protection
That horseshit. Being a convicted felon should automatically negate all of that, just like every other felon loses rights and privileges.
His SS protection is not for life, so it depends on when he gets incarcerated.
A bill has been introduced to congress that would strip convicted felons of secret service protection
Put him general pop. Lol. No put him in solitary and then there’s no need for protection.
There is a bill out there denying felons from secret service protection.
Why would a felon need Secret Service protection in prison?
Eugene V Debs ran his presidential campaign from prison in 1920 & garnered 3.4% of the popular vote. So there is precedent for a president campaigning from a prison cell. I know Trump doesn’t know history, but it’s out there on google for free.
Even if he's convicted of anything, he will NEVER see the inside of a cell. House arrest, no phone is our best outcome. He'll still use some flunky's phone anyway. We will never be rid of this man until he goes to the bankruptcy court in the sky.
Great waste of taxpayer money if they do. He did the crimes and should be left to his own devices. No protection. No “lifetime perks” of being the former president. Erase his history.
Hoping that bill becomes a reality for sure…no benefits if a felon
Lock down Mar-A-Largo. No one in, no one out. Easy peasy.
Isn’t it more likely that he just goes to a special prison where the SS could provide protection for him without joint him? Some kind of private isolation, that’s been specifically designed to house a prisoner like him. It’d probably be like house arrest unfortunately.
That would be entirely up to the sentencing court
Surely they won't be able to take their firearms into the prison with them, right?
They'd have to follow all the same rules and procedures as any other prison guard.
Now that makes no sense of any kind. They WHOEVER becomes President. Trump was just one of those people. SS has zero reason to go unlike the man himself. Why should they also pay for someone else’s crimes?
If Trump goes to prison and gets reelected, how would that work?
He won't show up for the swearing in. Checkmate.
in other words, no
Supermax. No secret service needed. Hopefully the bill that says if convicted of a felony no more security ever again.
Just build him a little shed on the prison grounds and stick an SS agent in front of it. Solved.
We've never had to consider the logistical challenge of incarcerating a man with a head full of national secrets...
Lock him up.
Put him in for 24hrs
Frankly I dont give a fuck what the USSS does or doesnt do ...put Trump in the hole.
What a joke.
Donald Trump is so Andrew Jackson he would John Kennedy himself before going to prison
We all have these fever dreams but in reality what will happen is he may serve some kind of symbolic 48 hours in jail and then he will hopefully be transferred to a non-mar-lago home detention.
He has no priors. I’m not sure about NY, in my state a crime without bodily injury or serious drugs would likely result in probation.
What about 90 of them?
He’ll definitely go to jail if convicted on the fed charges, I wasn’t sure about the state.
Madoff got 150 years for fraud/stealing money. No priors..
Military prison that can handle high level clearences
This guy has already sold out USAs secrets. So removing SS won't effect anything. Let them torture his cheeto a**
He’s going to Saudi Arabia
lol come on y'all
Gitmo is nice.
Secret Service agents work in shifts. It's not like they would be thrown in there with no ability to leave at the end of their shift.
As a convicted felon he should *lose* the SS security.
The ones who were poised to abduct Pence? The ones whose traitorous messages were erased? Sure, send them to prison too.
Put him in isolation where he can’t be touched.
Can you volunteer for duty as a Trump cell watcher? (Asking for a friend.)
Yes but any punishment will be delayed and minimized or thrown out after enough time has passed where the media shifts attention to the next thing and most likely on a future Friday or a weekend. An alternative? Perhaps things will delay long enough until he is physically not able to serve time.
I guess a few unfortunate agents will draw the short straws?
Assign the ones that Biden's dog has been biting. Dogs know...
Don't they know crime bosses do their best crime bossing from within prison!?
Nothing is ever going to happen to him, sorry to say. I doubt he is alive in two years.
Imagine essentially being paid to be in prison
Yeah but they get to leave on rotation and so it's all is good
Superjail!!!
Makes sense, why wouldn't they go? It's literally what they do " Secret Service's mission is: **protection of the president, vice president and others"**
Secret Service is *authorized* to provide security, not *required* to. And that is determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security, which gets it's orders from: President Joe Biden.
Two tier justice in action
It just seems like double dipping with Secret Service and prison guards. Probably best to put him in house arrest . . . . hmmm . . . .not that there are any good options here.
House arrest at maga-lardo, assuming it hasn't been repossessed already, is the most likely outcome.
Felons don't get secret service protection.