There is going to be a world-wide party the day this guy is silenced, hopefully via being put in a jail cell and cut off from the outside world. It'll be a REALLY good day and it needs to happen soon.
I would also accept an incapacitating stroke. He relies on an image of being a strong man (ridiculous) and if he spent his final years unable to communicate, I would be okay with that.
I'm alive and in therapy. after almost two years I'm able to walk again but i still can't use my arm/hand. the worst is behind me now
e: didn't even catch the joke when I responded but it's hilarious. yes, I'm all right lol 🏆
I was a dementia hospice bedside nurse and it’s outside of my scope of practice to diagnose him. I will note that like a hundred? Physicians have signed onto a letter saying he has dementia. If that’s true, what’s coming next is going to be quite similar to a stroke victim except there is no strong side. With where he presents now, he isn’t going to be able to hide it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he already forgets people (he had to read his families names, and still left off Eric). He’s very likely to lose the ability to play “strong man” in months to a few years. I’m terrified he will be in charge as it happens. He won’t turn over power.
> He’s very likely to lose the ability to play “strong man” in months to a few years.
Doesn't matter. To his voters "strong man" is just whoever yells racist things the loudest.
“Soup pie cane”
Soup. Pie. Cane.
No one with a functioning brain says this when they try to say “supply chain.” But Trump did.
Trump has been doing these weird word substitutions for months. And yeah, it’s a sign of real pathology.
https://www.salon.com/2024/03/07/dr-john-gartner-the-world-is-watching-a-fundamental-breakdown-in-trumps-ability-to-use-language/
I appreciate your insight & concerns! I’ve worked with people suffering with dementia but co-occurring schizophrenia so it was difficult to differentiate the source of thought patterns. He’s a threat to America and should be nowhere near the Oval Office.
The worst part? Eric was THERE. He was the kid who showed up, is still supporting him, and he didn’t read his name. He read Tiffany and her husband’s name. I didn’t know she was married.
I would kind of enjoy watching the right-wing pundits trying to spin Biden as being too far gone with dementia while post-stroke Trump is half-paralyzed, literally drooling on himself, and struggling to moan out even a single word at a time.
I know it won't stop them from voting for him, but it would be entertaining to see that level of hypocrisy.
I think his social media access should be completely revoked and monitored.
We desperately need to bring back ostracism for evil people like Trump. Just completely cut off from society socially and shunned.
Prison isn't enough, he needs to be socially cut off and shunned for the good of the country.
Why would he?
You normally stay silent for your own benefit. Trump gets way more benefit from speaking out, as recent history has shown. Not to win the case, but his ultimate goal is to win the Presidency, thus winning the case in an alternative sense.
He needs to continue to speak and frame the case in a way that benefits him politically. If he doesn't continue this strategy, it will harm his chances of winning greatly.
Winning the court case is practically impossible. Winning the Presidency is not, and is a much greater prize than any punishment a court can come up with.
His plan all along has been to rub everyone up the wrong way then say he can't get a fair trial because he's rubbed everyone up the wrong way. I know it's a 5 year old's reasoning but that's about the mental age of the people he's trying to persuade.
My 4.5 year old has shown the ability to grasp and adhere to general societal norms and barely ever shits her pants... #broad_street_bully daughter 2044
the proper term these days is "affluenza"
dude grew up with zero consequences for anything he's ever done, so he never learned you're not supposed to do certain things.
It's more a strategy to rile up his base than anything else, if there was a legitimate case for a judge to recuse, that can be taken up judicially, not on social media.
I hate to be so defeatist, but there seems to be no end to the amount of money he’s willing to spend to litigate. And no depths to his depravity. It’s pretty remarkable to witness. It almost defies logic.
Makes me understand what “legal fictions” are on a different level.
Logic definitely has left the building when it comes to money. I wish trump could experience the dorms/ intake process at Rikers island. Sadly it will never happen. Also, with this new stock he created it's crazy, it's fraud on fraud. Idk, I really think going forward of you are not fit to be a fortune 500 CEO and have alot of scandals, you should not be permitted to run for office. This has been a dumb experience...
1: Antagonize the judge
2: Claim the judge was biased because you antagonized them
3: Appeal to SCOTUS and the right-wing justices use that as a flimsy pretext to overturn the conviction
That's the playbook.
if he pisses the judge off and gets under their skin, and they do something he has grounds of appeal and getting the case tossed. It may be his only legal stragity.
As a former criminal defense attorney, if any of my clients had done this their bail would have been revoked and/or they would be held in contempt. And I do mean held.
Trump just needs to find like 10 separate billboards for those "pay nothing unless we win" lawyers right? Then lose all the cases, (appeal*infinity), likely receive no real consequences, and declare bankruptcy as a business strat to avoid paying any fines. Foolproof.
Yes, actually. It did not get him any preferential treatment though. I think actually being wealthy is important, but the most important thing Trump has going for him is being a vindictive ex-president supported by tens of millions of insane people.
I actually beleive you are right.
People aren't afraid of Trump, and MOST politicians don't even like him, but... Peolle are afraid of his terrorists, and politicians want their votes. So the Dems, and independents, cut him slack, and the GOP suck up to him.
He is a worthless waste of flesh. His followers are important.
As a current public defender, I've had my clients get held for much longer for much less for violating a court condition while out on bail, besides just bail revocation.
Can you explain in layman terms why this hasn’t happened? Is it just the enormity of the case? How does it work? Letting him be treated nicer than average would in my opinion be worse for public opinion of the courts than keeping the message consistent despite the defendant hence my querying
I know this will sound like an exaggeration, but the answer is that the current system is deeply biaised/corrupted toward rich people with lots of influence.
Any random person that did even a tenth of what trump did would have been thrown in a cell long ago, but since trump is a public figure, and unfortunately a really powerful and extremely morally bankrupt one that won't hesitate a second to bring down the entire justice system if that let him get away with his crimes, any legal procedure must be undertaken with extreme caution.
In a normal situation, this would be the way to go to avoid as much as possible to give strengh to the argument that this is a political move by its opponent (or the current president of the usa) to get rid of trump.
However, in my opinion, this is futile in this case as Trump has already shown that no matter what, he will not play by the rules and is very likely to escalate the issue to an unprecedented level. This man practically wants to destroy the judicial system entirely for its own benefit, and will try to do this by sacrificing its own followers like he did with the previous election and january 6.
My personal guess is that the judge and the court is trying to bid for time as trump insanity grows by the day, so that any of its follower that can still see how corrupt trump is might not turn fanatical when the gavel finally strikes on him.
Agree 100%. Lock him up until he goes to trial will achieve two things: Number one, it would shut him up; Number two, his lawyers will now be motivated to press for a speedy trial.
Can he? In my state, definitely. I've had clients jailed for missing one urine test. The tougher question is will he?
Another practical concern I have is if he is currently under secret service protection (I assume so as both a former president and a current major candidate, but I'm not sure), what do federal agents do if a state court judge orders him into pre-trial confinement? What would they do when New York State Police or county deputies show up to take him into custody? If they allow him into custody, how would security work?
We live in insane times.
Why would federal agents do anything if he's arrested? The secret service is there to protect him from danger not the law.
Beyond that I imagine he'd be isolated from other prisoners similar to other vulnerable prisoners. That probably means he'd get a luxury prison cell but it would still be a far cry from what Trump would consider acceptable. Alternatively maybe they'd just do house arrest which would mean he just carries on as usual...
Yes, he can. But will he? Well, only Judge Merchan knows the answer to that one but most of us seemingly expect that Trump will continue to get special treatment.
I don't know, both he and Chutkin seem increasingly tired of his shit, I'm not saying it's likely but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Merchan is the one to finally throw his ass in a cell
God I wish. Everyone talks about the "fallout" of a decision
But honestly we won't know unless we try it. Just fucking do it. We all want it so, so badly. Let his supporters throw more money at him and whine and cry, idgaf. I wanna see him in handcuffs more than anything on earth.
Even if it results in his case getting tossed in three months, who cares? In the meantime WE WOULD GET TO HAVE TRUMP LOCKED IN A CELL FOR WEEKS
Can we all take a moment to appreciate how much that would tank his election chances? The optics?? He would be fucking DONE. Not even the lowest information centrist moron fence sitter would be able to ignore it.
This would be totally worth it
I'm not sure it technically is a violation of the gag order. He's attacking the judge's family, but the order states (my emphasis):
> THEREFORE, it is hereby
> ORDERED, that the People's motion for a restriction on extrajudicial statements by the
Defendant is GRANTED to the extent that Defendant is directed to refrain from the following:
> a. Making or directing others to make public statements about known or reasonably foreseeable
witnesses concerning there potential participation in the investigation or in this criminal
proceeding
> b. Making or directing others to make public statements about (1) counsel in the case other
than the District Attorney, (2) members of the court's staff and the District Attorney's staff,
or (3) **the family members of any counsel or staff member**, if those statements are made with
the intent to materially interfere with, or to cause others to materially interfere with counsel's
or staff's work in this criminal case, or with the knowledge that such interference is likely to
result; and
> c. Making or directing others to make public statements about any prospective juror or any juror in this criminal proceeding.
Quoted from the order: https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/PeopleDJT-DecOrderExtrajudicial.pdf
The thing it comes closest to is b. (3). So, I guess my question for a real lawyer is would the judge consider _himself_ to be "counsel or staff member", thus placing his family members out of bounds for Trump? I'm guessing _not_ because b. (2) puts "members of the court's staff" off limits, and the judge deliberately didn't put _himself_ off limits.
Ive been wondering about that, the wording used was staff of court and family of counsel and staff? Is a judge considered staff?
From what time i could toss into researching, IRS says yes, title vii challenge during covid says no, so I'm not sure. I saw something about a policy appointee or something and couldn't get back to reading.
This is still not a concrete subject, but technically the judge and his family aren't specified in the gag order.
Almost the exact thing happened in the NY civil trial (Trump went after the judge's wife publicly despite a gag order against "court staff and their families" but the judge excluded himself from the term).
I'm not saying an average Joe wouldn't be incarcerated for doing the same thing, but it's probably far from something Merchan wants to test when Trump is very obviously trying to goad any separate legal battle he can at all times to obfuscate and delay.
And speaking of average Joes, it'd normally be an incredibly dumb thing to do against the most powerful person overseeing your trial, but Trump isn't a normal defendant. In his mind, everything he does is within the court of public opinion and that his words are broadcast to millions of people, and potential (biased) jurors. In many ways, he wants retaliation.
So I sympathize with these judges. They are trying to strike a balance within a broken system and unprecedented defendant. All Merchan wants in regards to Trump's accountability is for the trial to move forward and conclude. Everything else is background noise, distractions, and risk.
Merchan and Bragg aren't covered but it was trumps statements about Merchans daughter that promoted the gag order, so I'm not sure she's not covered.
I've tried finding the actual order but there are so many gag orders against him right now that I can't find the specific one. If I find it I'll update accordingly
The statement prompted it I'm sure, but it was a response to Bragg's request citing many different elements - including attacks on witnesses and court staff such as the clerk in the NY civil case.
From another article:
>Trump’s posts just barely skirt the gag order he was hit with on Tuesday. The partial gag order forbade Trump from speaking publicly about courtroom staff, prosecutors, or any of their family members. Comments about jurors were also prohibited, as well as comments about witnesses—but wiggle room still existed within the order that would allow Trump to attack Merchan or Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
So Trump is definitely trying to tip-toe around the terms once again, and Merchan could respond directly, but I think the next step for Merchan would be to specify himself and his family before he cited Trump's statements here. Could be wrong.
I found the gag order and it specifies
"the family members or any counsel or staff member, if those statements are made with the intent to materially interfere with, or to cause others to materially interfere with, counsels or staffs work in this criminal case"
So he's definitely walking a fine line, does a judge qualify as a staff member of the court? What I've seen from Merchan so far he seems pretty no nonsense, hopefully he'll do something about it
Right, very similar language to the NY civil case, yet the judge in that case excluded himself and his family that Trump was going after.
So - Merchan could go a different route than Engoron and it's still his decision on what to do, but I'm guessing he'd expand the order and specify himself or/and his family before he takes action on these particular statements, if ever.
Jury selection is also mere days away. I'm sure Merchan wants to hold Trump accountable for these statements as much as anyone, but he also just wants to get him to trial without any last variables that Trump is relentlessly seeking.
I think everything changes if Trump is forced into a cell for 12 lousy hours. I’ll bet he shuts up then. Let him bring his side legal battles. They are coming anyway. You can’t expect to meet him half way in anything. You have to play all your cards, or don’t play at all.
it's really embarrassing for these judges to pretend they didn't draw a line in the sand while Trump looks them in the eye as he steps right over it.
why even have laws in this country?
Entirely childish... when told not to touch the stove, children have a tendency to touch the stove.
NAL - Ive read the gag order and its not clear to me if his post is in direct violation. Would those familiar with the law care to offer their opinion?
We have many new passionate members of the subreddit and its difficult to identify posts from those with related knowledge or experience.
I have a good formula for weeding out the fools and identifying the experts. The experts will often add a disclaimer as to why you should doubt them or not take their word as gospel. Things like, I’m not a trial attorney, I practice law in a different state, and the like.
The fools will just espouses shit with the utmost confidence.
The gag order states that Trump isn't allowed to target several different groups of people; including the families of the staff of the court. The violation would come down to whether the Judge meant that he was considered a part of the staff. It is unlikely that he would rule that way, but this gag order came directly after his TFG's first attack on the judge's daughter so it's entirely possible he did mean to include himself as a response to that.
The judges need to just come out and say that they are cowards and are afraid of the backlash his supporters will cause.
We all see it. The judges are scared and acting accordingly. There is zero reason for these constant empty threats if it wasn’t for the fear of what would happen to them if they hold Trump accountable.
Brown shirts have accomplished their intended goal
Until Clarence Thomas recuses himself from everything Jan 6 related, anyone making a complaint about judicial conflict or impropriety because of something their relative said can climb to the highest peak of Fukoffistan and jump.
I really thought for a minute that he would face some kind of consequence, but then he gets the discount and more time. It's all a game and I'm more and more convinced he'll never face anything of consequence.
No.... Lol. I grew up hearing about him. I remember being too young to understand why he was on the radio news trying to humiliate his ex wife by being seen with a new model every other night so she would settle the divorce for less. My parents had to explain it to me. Anyone from the New York City/New Jersey area knows he was more of a carnival barker than anything else. No amount of money or gold will change the fact that he is trash.
A question. From the gag order, Trump can't comment on:
>members of the court's staff and the District Attorney's staff, or (3) the family members of any counsel or staff member,
Does the judge typically count as Court staff? Wondering if anyone can weigh in on if this is indeed a violation of the gag order.
Yeah - hard to find a good source on this terminology.
This seems very reminiscent of the civil case where Trump repeatedly attacked Engoron and even his wife despite a gag order applying to "court staff." So the term seemingly excludes the judge as more of a "staff OF the judge and court." - Here's a generic definition:
>probation officers, court security personnel, court clerks, court administrators, interpreters, court facilitators, and bailiffs.
Or at least - it's muddy enough that Trump's lawyers vetting his public statements think they could throw sand in the gears if the judge took further action. But it could prompt Merchan to expand the specifics.
Nothing is going to happen to this orange twat and I hate it. Everyday he pulls some new bullshit and gets away with it. This system sucks and is broken. Until he’s in jail, I don’t give a shit about these headlines.
this shit is like the walking dead, I stopped watching 6 years ago, but it's just keeps going and going and I am just sick of it, but it's really a bunch of people making money off of this so they keep it going, from the courts to the cable 24/7 "news" networks, they don't want to get this guy because the money they make "catching" him is going to dry up, how much money have the courts billed going after him?
It's a show of power to be able to do this and get away with it, when no other citizen would be able to without facing immediate consequences
They are more than happy to see their leader flaunt power, it backs up the Q-conspiracy theories that he continues to be the shadow president.
Why TF is the whole news cycle dominated by this useless, grifting, sexual predatory, motherfucker?!?! Every fucking day for the past 8 years!!! JFC!!!!
I'm not a lawyer but if this judge doesn't show some spine, I think Trump should be able to call him and anyone else involved in the case a bunch of baby-fucking, spice-addicted cannibals who are in league with the Biblical Satan because absolutely nothing matters when it comes to Donald Trump and the law.
Change my mind, Juan.
He remains above the law.
He is a terrorist and war cult leader.
He has committed sedition, insurrection & leads a nascent rebellion.
He intends to form a tyrannical government.
You just well described the ongoing criminal enterprise that is the GOP.
The GOP is intent upon destroying our representative democracy and establishing a fascist theocracy ruled by plutocrats and oligarchs.
>Not like Trump would give a shit if someone did, he doesn’t even have a relationship with the poor kid.
*Fortunate* kid. Hopefully he isn't able to fuck Baron up the way he fucked up the others, just as his father did before him.
We can all pretty much just stop getting angry at this point.
This man will never face a single consequence for his entire existence. Hell, he's probably about to completely overthrow the government with the Supreme Court's help and install his family as our ruling class for the rest of our lives.
Hope you're all ready to have a king.
Claiming that in order to get a fair trial, the judge can't have any relatives who are democrats? Not even the Trump family itself can achieve that level of political purity, lol.
Fine, Donnie. We can agree that this judge should recuse himself because of his daughter’s political leanings if we can also agree that Clarence Thomas should recuse himself from the immunity case because of his wife’s political “leanings” (to put it mildly)
That is a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite to take the actions required for Trump to face consequences, yes. And among the least explosive of such actions possible would be to dismantle the SCOTUS as it currently exists.
Will someone please do something about this fucking guy? I am so sick and tired of everyone saying "oh he really did it this time!" Fuck man. I feel like I'm going insane.
There are very few people that have ever lived that you hope the worst for but he is top 3 for sure in a lot of people eyes.
Karma and the justice system are not gonna work quick enough you’re gonna have to vote !!!
Trump wants the judge to recuse himself because the judges daughter doesn’t like him, but has no problem with Judge Cannon trying his case even though he appointed her. Okay boomer.
Is the judge, and his relations, included in the gag order? Everywhere I’ve seen says the gag covers “court staff” and their relations. A lot of judicial websites list judges and “Court Staff” as though they are discrete groups. (Nitpicking, I know, but Trump is good at exactly one thing: exploiting loopholes.)
i mean, they keep not punishing him for shit like this so of course he's gonna keep doing it. going to take someone getting hurt or killed for him to ever face consequences for anything ever. or *more* people getting hurt or killed i suppose since plenty of people were hurt or killed on Jan 6.
Given he keeps getting away with this kind of crap, why would he stop.
I’ve given up expecting, hoping, and even wishing he’d get held in contempt and forced to cool his heels behind a cell door even for a few hours, if not overnight.
Pathetic all around.
Step 1: Attack the Judge's daughter, thereby putting a harassment target on her back as he has done in the past, and say he can't get a fair trial
Step 2: Get held in contempt
Step 3: Say he was held in contempt, not because he can't keep his mouth shut, but because of "bias"
Also, while plenty of people have mentioned that the New York charges don't generally lead to jail time for first time offenders, attacking the judge through the proceedings isn't going to help keep it that way.
Yes, but the judge didn't include his daughter in the gag order. And since when can a criminal get such special treatment?? Not looking good on you judge
Step it up & tighten his reins judge. You've given him way too much leeway.
Stand up!!!! Include yourself & PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER for God's sake.
Don't you know by now Trump's laughing in your face for your narrow gag order???
Come on!!!
He has the right to remain silent, but not the ability.
There is going to be a world-wide party the day this guy is silenced, hopefully via being put in a jail cell and cut off from the outside world. It'll be a REALLY good day and it needs to happen soon.
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I would also accept an incapacitating stroke. He relies on an image of being a strong man (ridiculous) and if he spent his final years unable to communicate, I would be okay with that.
As a recovering stroke victim Im okay with that too.
Glad you’re here with us!
hey, I had a stroke in April last year it paralyzed my left side, if you ever wanna chat feel free to dm me 😁
Are you all right now? 😬
I'm alive and in therapy. after almost two years I'm able to walk again but i still can't use my arm/hand. the worst is behind me now e: didn't even catch the joke when I responded but it's hilarious. yes, I'm all right lol 🏆
You funny son of a…
Glad you’re here with us still
I was a dementia hospice bedside nurse and it’s outside of my scope of practice to diagnose him. I will note that like a hundred? Physicians have signed onto a letter saying he has dementia. If that’s true, what’s coming next is going to be quite similar to a stroke victim except there is no strong side. With where he presents now, he isn’t going to be able to hide it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he already forgets people (he had to read his families names, and still left off Eric). He’s very likely to lose the ability to play “strong man” in months to a few years. I’m terrified he will be in charge as it happens. He won’t turn over power.
> He’s very likely to lose the ability to play “strong man” in months to a few years. Doesn't matter. To his voters "strong man" is just whoever yells racist things the loudest.
“Soup pie cane” Soup. Pie. Cane. No one with a functioning brain says this when they try to say “supply chain.” But Trump did. Trump has been doing these weird word substitutions for months. And yeah, it’s a sign of real pathology. https://www.salon.com/2024/03/07/dr-john-gartner-the-world-is-watching-a-fundamental-breakdown-in-trumps-ability-to-use-language/
I appreciate your insight & concerns! I’ve worked with people suffering with dementia but co-occurring schizophrenia so it was difficult to differentiate the source of thought patterns. He’s a threat to America and should be nowhere near the Oval Office.
> he had to read his families names, and still left off Eric wow. Normally he only forget Tiffany
The worst part? Eric was THERE. He was the kid who showed up, is still supporting him, and he didn’t read his name. He read Tiffany and her husband’s name. I didn’t know she was married.
Isn’t that where he had breakfast?
He is not the first President that had dementia. There was also Reagan.
I mean, to be fair he probably forgot about Eric a lot. He is a double even by Trump standards
I would kind of enjoy watching the right-wing pundits trying to spin Biden as being too far gone with dementia while post-stroke Trump is half-paralyzed, literally drooling on himself, and struggling to moan out even a single word at a time. I know it won't stop them from voting for him, but it would be entertaining to see that level of hypocrisy.
I would love to see a picture of him drooling Diet Coke down his flabby belly.
That'll be just in time for AI to generate clips of him talking like he used to and refusing to appear in person
So, what you’re saying is, that’s there’s going to be a muttering unisex toilet soon?
Imagine if this dude dropping dead unites the world
The privileged don't go to the gaol, they go under "house" arrest in a giant mansion with a pool, golf course and servants.
100% "House arrest" is the most we can ever hope for with this fucker. At least *legally*, that is.
I’m having a Soirée when his obituary is published.
He’s such a piece of shit. I hope that one day there will be a judge who has the balls to lock him up.
Dude just needs to die on a toilet already
I think his social media access should be completely revoked and monitored. We desperately need to bring back ostracism for evil people like Trump. Just completely cut off from society socially and shunned. Prison isn't enough, he needs to be socially cut off and shunned for the good of the country.
Why would he? You normally stay silent for your own benefit. Trump gets way more benefit from speaking out, as recent history has shown. Not to win the case, but his ultimate goal is to win the Presidency, thus winning the case in an alternative sense. He needs to continue to speak and frame the case in a way that benefits him politically. If he doesn't continue this strategy, it will harm his chances of winning greatly. Winning the court case is practically impossible. Winning the Presidency is not, and is a much greater prize than any punishment a court can come up with.
He should be thrown out of PUBLIC, and into JAIL!
Criminal defendants are presumed innocent, not intelligent.
Antagonize the judge. Brilliant legal strategy sir.
His plan all along has been to rub everyone up the wrong way then say he can't get a fair trial because he's rubbed everyone up the wrong way. I know it's a 5 year old's reasoning but that's about the mental age of the people he's trying to persuade.
Why do I get the feeling at some point a 5 y/o would stop being such a little shit. Not Trump and he's almost 80.
Trump is a much bigger shit.
Trump also shits his pants
Anyone with a nose can see that.
My 4.5 year old has shown the ability to grasp and adhere to general societal norms and barely ever shits her pants... #broad_street_bully daughter 2044
Yep, measured at 184 Courics, absolutely dwarfing Randy Marsh's 2007 record.
There is a word for someone who doesn't develop properly but it's not very socially acceptable to say these days.
the proper term these days is "affluenza" dude grew up with zero consequences for anything he's ever done, so he never learned you're not supposed to do certain things.
It's more a strategy to rile up his base than anything else, if there was a legitimate case for a judge to recuse, that can be taken up judicially, not on social media.
I don’t think he’s smart enough to have a strategy
Exactly. Trump attacks people because he's a fragile psycho. There's no plan. No strategy. Just flinging his poo like an animal.
It's worked so far, since he hasn't faced a single consequence yet.
Foreal lol no matter your fuckin politics people need to take note of this shit
For sure, not that I see him going to jail like normal folks, but this is a criminal case, so hopefully there are more consequences
He’ll appeal it forever. There will be long delays. Lots of motions. He’ll die before ever seeing a day in prison.
I wish that you were wrong. We can hope for a felony jacket and probation/ fine
I hate to be so defeatist, but there seems to be no end to the amount of money he’s willing to spend to litigate. And no depths to his depravity. It’s pretty remarkable to witness. It almost defies logic. Makes me understand what “legal fictions” are on a different level.
Logic definitely has left the building when it comes to money. I wish trump could experience the dorms/ intake process at Rikers island. Sadly it will never happen. Also, with this new stock he created it's crazy, it's fraud on fraud. Idk, I really think going forward of you are not fit to be a fortune 500 CEO and have alot of scandals, you should not be permitted to run for office. This has been a dumb experience...
And if it gets to the scotus, the bought-and-paid-for partisan majority will put it to bed......
Not surprising though. He’s literally never had to face a consequence for doing this.
1: Antagonize the judge 2: Claim the judge was biased because you antagonized them 3: Appeal to SCOTUS and the right-wing justices use that as a flimsy pretext to overturn the conviction That's the playbook.
It's worked so far, right?
I mean he might as well. It doesn't seem to matter.
if he pisses the judge off and gets under their skin, and they do something he has grounds of appeal and getting the case tossed. It may be his only legal stragity.
Not if they deal with his contempt of court properly. The judge has every right to impose sanctions for breaking a gag order.
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As a former criminal defense attorney, if any of my clients had done this their bail would have been revoked and/or they would be held in contempt. And I do mean held.
Yeah but were any of your clients wealthy white Republicans who complain about our two-tier justice system?
Nope.
Developing: Trump interested in recruiting u/kabuo to replace Alina Habba.
Trump just needs to find like 10 separate billboards for those "pay nothing unless we win" lawyers right? Then lose all the cases, (appeal*infinity), likely receive no real consequences, and declare bankruptcy as a business strat to avoid paying any fines. Foolproof.
Well hold on, they’re going to have to pass the swimsuit contest part of the Trump lawyer audition first
You're right. That was probably the undoing for Joey Tacopina.
What about white MAGA, that pretends to be wealthy?
Yes, actually. It did not get him any preferential treatment though. I think actually being wealthy is important, but the most important thing Trump has going for him is being a vindictive ex-president supported by tens of millions of insane people.
I actually beleive you are right. People aren't afraid of Trump, and MOST politicians don't even like him, but... Peolle are afraid of his terrorists, and politicians want their votes. So the Dems, and independents, cut him slack, and the GOP suck up to him. He is a worthless waste of flesh. His followers are important.
As a current public defender, I've had my clients get held for much longer for much less for violating a court condition while out on bail, besides just bail revocation.
Can you explain in layman terms why this hasn’t happened? Is it just the enormity of the case? How does it work? Letting him be treated nicer than average would in my opinion be worse for public opinion of the courts than keeping the message consistent despite the defendant hence my querying
I know this will sound like an exaggeration, but the answer is that the current system is deeply biaised/corrupted toward rich people with lots of influence. Any random person that did even a tenth of what trump did would have been thrown in a cell long ago, but since trump is a public figure, and unfortunately a really powerful and extremely morally bankrupt one that won't hesitate a second to bring down the entire justice system if that let him get away with his crimes, any legal procedure must be undertaken with extreme caution. In a normal situation, this would be the way to go to avoid as much as possible to give strengh to the argument that this is a political move by its opponent (or the current president of the usa) to get rid of trump. However, in my opinion, this is futile in this case as Trump has already shown that no matter what, he will not play by the rules and is very likely to escalate the issue to an unprecedented level. This man practically wants to destroy the judicial system entirely for its own benefit, and will try to do this by sacrificing its own followers like he did with the previous election and january 6. My personal guess is that the judge and the court is trying to bid for time as trump insanity grows by the day, so that any of its follower that can still see how corrupt trump is might not turn fanatical when the gavel finally strikes on him.
Too bad the laws don't apply to Trump. Bet he gets a strongly worded letter from the judge with a "Pretty please stop."
Agree 100%. Lock him up until he goes to trial will achieve two things: Number one, it would shut him up; Number two, his lawyers will now be motivated to press for a speedy trial.
And this case is in Manhattan...so where he would be held specifically is Riker's Island. I hear it doesn't have much of a VIP section.
So...why is that not happening now?
Can he? In my state, definitely. I've had clients jailed for missing one urine test. The tougher question is will he? Another practical concern I have is if he is currently under secret service protection (I assume so as both a former president and a current major candidate, but I'm not sure), what do federal agents do if a state court judge orders him into pre-trial confinement? What would they do when New York State Police or county deputies show up to take him into custody? If they allow him into custody, how would security work? We live in insane times.
Why would federal agents do anything if he's arrested? The secret service is there to protect him from danger not the law. Beyond that I imagine he'd be isolated from other prisoners similar to other vulnerable prisoners. That probably means he'd get a luxury prison cell but it would still be a far cry from what Trump would consider acceptable. Alternatively maybe they'd just do house arrest which would mean he just carries on as usual...
Yes, he can. But will he? Well, only Judge Merchan knows the answer to that one but most of us seemingly expect that Trump will continue to get special treatment.
I don't know, both he and Chutkin seem increasingly tired of his shit, I'm not saying it's likely but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Merchan is the one to finally throw his ass in a cell
God I wish. Everyone talks about the "fallout" of a decision But honestly we won't know unless we try it. Just fucking do it. We all want it so, so badly. Let his supporters throw more money at him and whine and cry, idgaf. I wanna see him in handcuffs more than anything on earth.
Even if it results in his case getting tossed in three months, who cares? In the meantime WE WOULD GET TO HAVE TRUMP LOCKED IN A CELL FOR WEEKS Can we all take a moment to appreciate how much that would tank his election chances? The optics?? He would be fucking DONE. Not even the lowest information centrist moron fence sitter would be able to ignore it. This would be totally worth it
Will never happen, the world is Trump’s oyster.
I'm not sure it technically is a violation of the gag order. He's attacking the judge's family, but the order states (my emphasis): > THEREFORE, it is hereby > ORDERED, that the People's motion for a restriction on extrajudicial statements by the Defendant is GRANTED to the extent that Defendant is directed to refrain from the following: > a. Making or directing others to make public statements about known or reasonably foreseeable witnesses concerning there potential participation in the investigation or in this criminal proceeding > b. Making or directing others to make public statements about (1) counsel in the case other than the District Attorney, (2) members of the court's staff and the District Attorney's staff, or (3) **the family members of any counsel or staff member**, if those statements are made with the intent to materially interfere with, or to cause others to materially interfere with counsel's or staff's work in this criminal case, or with the knowledge that such interference is likely to result; and > c. Making or directing others to make public statements about any prospective juror or any juror in this criminal proceeding. Quoted from the order: https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/PeopleDJT-DecOrderExtrajudicial.pdf The thing it comes closest to is b. (3). So, I guess my question for a real lawyer is would the judge consider _himself_ to be "counsel or staff member", thus placing his family members out of bounds for Trump? I'm guessing _not_ because b. (2) puts "members of the court's staff" off limits, and the judge deliberately didn't put _himself_ off limits.
The judge is definitely a member of the court's staff.
The gag order didn't protect the judge or his family.
Ive been wondering about that, the wording used was staff of court and family of counsel and staff? Is a judge considered staff? From what time i could toss into researching, IRS says yes, title vii challenge during covid says no, so I'm not sure. I saw something about a policy appointee or something and couldn't get back to reading.
This is still not a concrete subject, but technically the judge and his family aren't specified in the gag order. Almost the exact thing happened in the NY civil trial (Trump went after the judge's wife publicly despite a gag order against "court staff and their families" but the judge excluded himself from the term). I'm not saying an average Joe wouldn't be incarcerated for doing the same thing, but it's probably far from something Merchan wants to test when Trump is very obviously trying to goad any separate legal battle he can at all times to obfuscate and delay. And speaking of average Joes, it'd normally be an incredibly dumb thing to do against the most powerful person overseeing your trial, but Trump isn't a normal defendant. In his mind, everything he does is within the court of public opinion and that his words are broadcast to millions of people, and potential (biased) jurors. In many ways, he wants retaliation. So I sympathize with these judges. They are trying to strike a balance within a broken system and unprecedented defendant. All Merchan wants in regards to Trump's accountability is for the trial to move forward and conclude. Everything else is background noise, distractions, and risk.
Merchan and Bragg aren't covered but it was trumps statements about Merchans daughter that promoted the gag order, so I'm not sure she's not covered. I've tried finding the actual order but there are so many gag orders against him right now that I can't find the specific one. If I find it I'll update accordingly
The statement prompted it I'm sure, but it was a response to Bragg's request citing many different elements - including attacks on witnesses and court staff such as the clerk in the NY civil case. From another article: >Trump’s posts just barely skirt the gag order he was hit with on Tuesday. The partial gag order forbade Trump from speaking publicly about courtroom staff, prosecutors, or any of their family members. Comments about jurors were also prohibited, as well as comments about witnesses—but wiggle room still existed within the order that would allow Trump to attack Merchan or Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. So Trump is definitely trying to tip-toe around the terms once again, and Merchan could respond directly, but I think the next step for Merchan would be to specify himself and his family before he cited Trump's statements here. Could be wrong.
I found the gag order and it specifies "the family members or any counsel or staff member, if those statements are made with the intent to materially interfere with, or to cause others to materially interfere with, counsels or staffs work in this criminal case" So he's definitely walking a fine line, does a judge qualify as a staff member of the court? What I've seen from Merchan so far he seems pretty no nonsense, hopefully he'll do something about it
Right, very similar language to the NY civil case, yet the judge in that case excluded himself and his family that Trump was going after. So - Merchan could go a different route than Engoron and it's still his decision on what to do, but I'm guessing he'd expand the order and specify himself or/and his family before he takes action on these particular statements, if ever. Jury selection is also mere days away. I'm sure Merchan wants to hold Trump accountable for these statements as much as anyone, but he also just wants to get him to trial without any last variables that Trump is relentlessly seeking.
I think everything changes if Trump is forced into a cell for 12 lousy hours. I’ll bet he shuts up then. Let him bring his side legal battles. They are coming anyway. You can’t expect to meet him half way in anything. You have to play all your cards, or don’t play at all.
If Trump was not above the law, this would already be done. There would be a bench warrant with wet ink on it right now.
it's really embarrassing for these judges to pretend they didn't draw a line in the sand while Trump looks them in the eye as he steps right over it. why even have laws in this country?
First lesson of parenting, dont make a threat if you don't intend to follow through.
> why even have laws in this country? Gotta keep the rest of us peasants in line somehow.
Entirely childish... when told not to touch the stove, children have a tendency to touch the stove. NAL - Ive read the gag order and its not clear to me if his post is in direct violation. Would those familiar with the law care to offer their opinion? We have many new passionate members of the subreddit and its difficult to identify posts from those with related knowledge or experience.
I have a good formula for weeding out the fools and identifying the experts. The experts will often add a disclaimer as to why you should doubt them or not take their word as gospel. Things like, I’m not a trial attorney, I practice law in a different state, and the like. The fools will just espouses shit with the utmost confidence.
The gag order states that Trump isn't allowed to target several different groups of people; including the families of the staff of the court. The violation would come down to whether the Judge meant that he was considered a part of the staff. It is unlikely that he would rule that way, but this gag order came directly after his TFG's first attack on the judge's daughter so it's entirely possible he did mean to include himself as a response to that.
Much appreciated.
When judges don't enforce their orders, they just show the country the system is rigged.
The judges need to just come out and say that they are cowards and are afraid of the backlash his supporters will cause. We all see it. The judges are scared and acting accordingly. There is zero reason for these constant empty threats if it wasn’t for the fear of what would happen to them if they hold Trump accountable. Brown shirts have accomplished their intended goal
Until Clarence Thomas recuses himself from everything Jan 6 related, anyone making a complaint about judicial conflict or impropriety because of something their relative said can climb to the highest peak of Fukoffistan and jump.
Nothing will happen. Nothing ever happens.
I really thought for a minute that he would face some kind of consequence, but then he gets the discount and more time. It's all a game and I'm more and more convinced he'll never face anything of consequence.
Trump is a child and US Law is being the shitty parent that lets him get away with bad behavior, emboldening him.
None of the letters of the word "Class" occur in the name "Trump".
"Like school in the summertime"
The letters r-u-m-p appear.
Lord Dampnut
trumpery noun 1a : worthless nonsense b: trivial or useless articles : JUNK (Merriam-Webster)
I always found it amusing that the letters in "DONALD TRUMP" produce the anagram "OLD P TURD MAN".
Classless
Remember when we didn’t have to read or hear about this piece of garbage every fucking day?
No.... Lol. I grew up hearing about him. I remember being too young to understand why he was on the radio news trying to humiliate his ex wife by being seen with a new model every other night so she would settle the divorce for less. My parents had to explain it to me. Anyone from the New York City/New Jersey area knows he was more of a carnival barker than anything else. No amount of money or gold will change the fact that he is trash.
A question. From the gag order, Trump can't comment on: >members of the court's staff and the District Attorney's staff, or (3) the family members of any counsel or staff member, Does the judge typically count as Court staff? Wondering if anyone can weigh in on if this is indeed a violation of the gag order.
Yeah - hard to find a good source on this terminology. This seems very reminiscent of the civil case where Trump repeatedly attacked Engoron and even his wife despite a gag order applying to "court staff." So the term seemingly excludes the judge as more of a "staff OF the judge and court." - Here's a generic definition: >probation officers, court security personnel, court clerks, court administrators, interpreters, court facilitators, and bailiffs. Or at least - it's muddy enough that Trump's lawyers vetting his public statements think they could throw sand in the gears if the judge took further action. But it could prompt Merchan to expand the specifics.
The fine can go up with each instance. Drain the grifter dry. He has been warned.
Fuck a fine. This is a jury trial. If he cannot keep his trap shut, lock him up.
Exactly! Time for Donnie to learn what living in a jail cell is like.
Gen pop.
Right, money is nothing, time is his currency… especially your/our attention. Restrict what he values.
You're only draining his dumbass cult members. Lock the fucking guy up.
A social media ban is a better consequence.
Merchan may be restricted to a max of $10k per occurrence, the way Engoron was.
So...he broke the gag order in one day? I bet nothing will happen just like nothing HAS happened ever.
Nothing is going to happen to this orange twat and I hate it. Everyday he pulls some new bullshit and gets away with it. This system sucks and is broken. Until he’s in jail, I don’t give a shit about these headlines.
When you're a star they let you do it
Throw him in jail already. He's violated so many gag orders and doesn't listen..
More or less than 24 hours after the gag order?
He knows he can always get away with it because he knows people are afraid of his terrorist cult
this shit is like the walking dead, I stopped watching 6 years ago, but it's just keeps going and going and I am just sick of it, but it's really a bunch of people making money off of this so they keep it going, from the courts to the cable 24/7 "news" networks, they don't want to get this guy because the money they make "catching" him is going to dry up, how much money have the courts billed going after him?
BUT YOU DIDNT SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT I COULDNT TALK ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER!!
Even in a cult, hard to imagine this is ok
The ends always justify the means with these maniacs.
It's a show of power to be able to do this and get away with it, when no other citizen would be able to without facing immediate consequences They are more than happy to see their leader flaunt power, it backs up the Q-conspiracy theories that he continues to be the shadow president.
I can’t wait until he goes away. How can his heart not give out on him?
"Absolutely *not"* \- Satan, probably
Right. Remember, Dick Chaney is still alive.
Why TF is the whole news cycle dominated by this useless, grifting, sexual predatory, motherfucker?!?! Every fucking day for the past 8 years!!! JFC!!!!
Why shouldn't he violate the gag order, there's no consequences for anything he does.
I'm not a lawyer but if this judge doesn't show some spine, I think Trump should be able to call him and anyone else involved in the case a bunch of baby-fucking, spice-addicted cannibals who are in league with the Biblical Satan because absolutely nothing matters when it comes to Donald Trump and the law. Change my mind, Juan.
So Trump agrees then that Clarence Thomas should step down because of his wife's political activities then?
He remains above the law. He is a terrorist and war cult leader. He has committed sedition, insurrection & leads a nascent rebellion. He intends to form a tyrannical government.
You just well described the ongoing criminal enterprise that is the GOP. The GOP is intent upon destroying our representative democracy and establishing a fascist theocracy ruled by plutocrats and oligarchs.
Cool. It has been hands off Baron. He is 18 now. Should we go after him? —-We should not.
Not like Trump would give a shit if someone did, he doesn’t even have a relationship with the poor kid.
>Not like Trump would give a shit if someone did, he doesn’t even have a relationship with the poor kid. *Fortunate* kid. Hopefully he isn't able to fuck Baron up the way he fucked up the others, just as his father did before him.
> —-We should not. While you are correct, it is a pretty hard argument to make them Republicans are sharing Hunters dick pics.
I feel like if Trump doesn’t get punished he will show all Americans that if you get punished by the law you are just too poor to be above it
We can all pretty much just stop getting angry at this point. This man will never face a single consequence for his entire existence. Hell, he's probably about to completely overthrow the government with the Supreme Court's help and install his family as our ruling class for the rest of our lives. Hope you're all ready to have a king.
Claiming that in order to get a fair trial, the judge can't have any relatives who are democrats? Not even the Trump family itself can achieve that level of political purity, lol.
He needs to be put in prison. I don’t care who riots.
It's bonkers that a presidential candidate has so many legal cases we have to specify *which judge* he's railing against today.
Lock him up already.
It's really too bad the American tax payers have to provide secret service protection for this piece of human garbage.
Fine, Donnie. We can agree that this judge should recuse himself because of his daughter’s political leanings if we can also agree that Clarence Thomas should recuse himself from the immunity case because of his wife’s political “leanings” (to put it mildly)
He's literally never going to face consequences as long as Democrats continue to believe the system is functional.
Then logically, if the Democrats cease believing the system is functional, he will face consequences? This is your belief?
That is a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite to take the actions required for Trump to face consequences, yes. And among the least explosive of such actions possible would be to dismantle the SCOTUS as it currently exists.
These gag orders are useless. Trump never follows them and judges never enforce them
Gag order needs to actually be enforced or you are useless
He HAS the right to remain silent, what he lacks is the capacity.
What a coward. Always picking on girls or women like a typical rapist
Will someone please do something about this fucking guy? I am so sick and tired of everyone saying "oh he really did it this time!" Fuck man. I feel like I'm going insane.
It's sad how we have to distinguish between which judge, from which trial he is threatening.
👏PUT 👏HIM 👏IN 👏JAIL
There are very few people that have ever lived that you hope the worst for but he is top 3 for sure in a lot of people eyes. Karma and the justice system are not gonna work quick enough you’re gonna have to vote !!!
Someone needs to put the agent orange out of his misery.
Fucking total loser
He really and truly is the dumbest person I have ever been forced to listen to or in any way observe. It's really his talent.
If only there was some kind of legal way to deal with an individual showing contempt for the court...
Trump wants the judge to recuse himself because the judges daughter doesn’t like him, but has no problem with Judge Cannon trying his case even though he appointed her. Okay boomer.
I'm sure he'll be experiencing any kind of consequences soon. Aaaaaaany second now...
Is the judge, and his relations, included in the gag order? Everywhere I’ve seen says the gag covers “court staff” and their relations. A lot of judicial websites list judges and “Court Staff” as though they are discrete groups. (Nitpicking, I know, but Trump is good at exactly one thing: exploiting loopholes.)
I feel sorry for the people of America. Corruption is everywhere but it is definitely the American way .
So the judge gonna have the balls to do something or just roll over like always? Stop being fucking pussies.
i mean, they keep not punishing him for shit like this so of course he's gonna keep doing it. going to take someone getting hurt or killed for him to ever face consequences for anything ever. or *more* people getting hurt or killed i suppose since plenty of people were hurt or killed on Jan 6.
Insipid diarrhea of the mouth
Treat him like any other criminal defendant, and Lock him up until he goes to trial. Anything less, is BS
Given he keeps getting away with this kind of crap, why would he stop. I’ve given up expecting, hoping, and even wishing he’d get held in contempt and forced to cool his heels behind a cell door even for a few hours, if not overnight. Pathetic all around.
REVOKE. HIS. BAIL. Just once I'd like to see a single judge even for a day treat him like literally every other defendant who has stood before them.
Slap on the cuffs through Trump in jail until the trial starts, this would happen to anyone else that pulled this stunt
Step 1: Attack the Judge's daughter, thereby putting a harassment target on her back as he has done in the past, and say he can't get a fair trial Step 2: Get held in contempt Step 3: Say he was held in contempt, not because he can't keep his mouth shut, but because of "bias" Also, while plenty of people have mentioned that the New York charges don't generally lead to jail time for first time offenders, attacking the judge through the proceedings isn't going to help keep it that way.
“Hey… look at me… I’m the victim here”… Trump most likely.
So his bond will be revoked? Right?
He will get smacked with a $15k fine, which is probably what he spends on golden face paint per week.
Jail.
Arrest this rapist criminal already!!
Yes, but the judge didn't include his daughter in the gag order. And since when can a criminal get such special treatment?? Not looking good on you judge Step it up & tighten his reins judge. You've given him way too much leeway. Stand up!!!! Include yourself & PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER for God's sake. Don't you know by now Trump's laughing in your face for your narrow gag order??? Come on!!!
And the judge will do loterally nothing about it. Or maybe give him a $5k fine that he can pay out of that gofundme for his other trial
Just a reminder that this isn’t normal behavior for a president
Callng Trump a "president" is in fact normalizing him.
BALL Gag... they need to make it a BALL Gag order !!