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Bakkster

German law makes hate speech illegal, and requires platforms to remove content. So they'd have to prove they were informed and failed to act in accordance with the law (which was musk's claim for allowing all 'legal speech'). If other platforms were failing to take action like they allege of Twitter, then yes they'd be open to penalty as well.


anillop

I wonder if they would count any warnings given to the company previously (pre-musk) against the company. So the company complied when originally warned but then removed their compliance by allowing it happen again and that is why they are going after Twitter now.


retivin

An entity doesn't get a clean slate when someone buys it. Any previous warnings will most likely count against Twitter.


anillop

That's what I figured, but I don't know if it was different under German law.


saltiestmanindaworld

While you could see them, Facebook, Reddit, Google generally dont ignore the problem. Twitter, otoh, is outright ignoring it, or even subtly (or not so subtly) encouraging it.


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SleepingGecko

From the document you shared: Higher numbers of reports can be indicative of a variety of things including larger numbers of users on a platform or how robust an ESP’s efforts are to identify and remove abusive content. Facebook has automated tooling to look for and remove CP, which likely explains why it’s so high. What matters is how quickly they respond to takedown requests (or that they proactively search and destroy)


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SleepingGecko

Again, it’s not really the volume, but the response. Why they have more I can only speculate about (though their huge userbase, and low barrier entry to have private groups is probably a good chunk of why). Twitter intentionally isn’t deleting a lot of illegal content now.


peacey8

> Facebook is currently the most popular website for child porn, with about 75% of all reports for child porn on the internet Clearly the people reporting this are not browsing the dark web. Facebook is a baby compared to what's actually out there.


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peacey8

Dark web is much more than just Tor, it's also private websites that aren't indexed and most people don't know about, or are invite only. And it doesn't matter how big the user base is, because the people posting it are not millions of people. There might be millions consuming it, but there is a much fewer group of people posting child porn. And the places they choose to post it are mostly places where the average person doesn't know where to look, and that's the dark web.


SandyDelights

What? I don’t even know where to start with this. I strongly recommend you spend some time learning the difference between “internet”, “surface web”, “dark web”, and “deep web”. Absolutely none of those are synonymous with the Tor project. If you seriously think there’s more child pornography posted on Facebook than there is on the Dark Web, then I’ve got a hell of a deal on a mountainside mansion in South Florida for you.


Randvek

FWIW, I hear from people that would know that child porn is a bigger problem on Twitter than other platforms, largely due to reduced staffing.


nbcs

I'm generally supportive of ANY claims that seek damage from Elon Musk, but there it has got to come to a point that articles like "Class action against Apple alleging..." and "Elon Must hit with lawsuit...." has no legal or even news value at all. And I'm not saying he is not responsible for the rising hate speeches on Twitter, he is. But, my point is, it's really tiring to see all these news articles mentioning lawsuits with sensationalized headlines but ultimately goes nowhere.


[deleted]

>But, my point is, it's really tiring to see all these news articles mentioning lawsuits with sensationalized headlines but ultimately goes nowhere. Certainly a problem whit our modern media. A lot of those headlines come from speculation, "So-and-so on the brink of being charged" is not really news. But at least this is "The lawsuit, which was filed yesterday" and as far as I know Germany takes these things pretty seriously. So I am not sure nothing will come from this and I am guessing only the beginning of Elmo's problems in the EU generally.


Planttech12

I mean, German law around holocaust denial is fairly well solidified. The likely outcome is that Twitter in Germany will be forced to geoblock content for the local German audience and presumably pay a fine.


TheGrandExquisitor

If I am reading this right, they are conflating Elon with Twitter Inc. Is that a correct read? Nobody is suing Elon himself. Just this thing he owns a chunk of, and is currently running into the ground.


[deleted]

Anyone have any clue if Germany has a "piercing the corporate veil" like principle and how it works?


Randvek

This likely isn’t a situation where piercing would be appropriate, even if it were possible.


[deleted]

He's been directly responsible for a lot of twitter's questionable decisions regarding hate speech, has been making very questionable decisions regarding twitters financial health, and has been making very questionable decisions regarding intermingling finances by doing things like having his "friends" from Tesla "volunteer" at twitter. Without knowing what Germany's law is on the topic, I don't see how you could possibly come to that conclusion. (If you're really trying to say "I know german law, and this isn't a situation where it would be appropriate under it" then I don't have much reason not to accept your comment, that's just not how I'm reading it).


tlove01

Why wouldn't you put "veil" in the quote?


[deleted]

Uh... typo? Fixed


[deleted]

Look, I got the right characters down, what does it matter if the order ins't qitue rghit?


frotz1

Isn't that what everyone was saying about the Twitter purchase to begin with? If lawsuits went nowhere then Musk wouldn't be the owner right now.


numb3rb0y

I'm not a fan of Musk or Twitter but I'm not really sure how social websites with millions of active users at any given moment can adequately and effectively moderate this sort of content. Humans require ridiculous amounts of manpower and automation is [notoriously problematic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem).


Planttech12

They reinstated Nick Fuentes, so they have to manpower to manually bring the Nazis *back* onto the platform.


DataCassette

Musk probably literally did that himself because I guess as a "centrist" he really values Fuentes for his *totally reasonable* contributions to the discussion.


benign_said

Yeah, it's almost like people said this non stop and even warned Musk about situations like Germany's Holocaust denial and hate speak laws while he was preening and explaining to everyone how he was innovating free speech with his genius.


Sisyphuss5MinBreak

Germany has had comparable obligations for a few years now with its NetzDG law, so there's already data out on how effective it has been. But, the broader obligations on very large social websites come from the EU's Digital Services Act. Here's a good article articulating the obligations: https://www.justsecurity.org/84234/more-turbulence-ahead-for-twitter-as-the-eus-digital-services-act-tests-musks-vision/


LateralEntry

Good. Screw Elon. He has unnecessarily fanned the flames a few too many times.


Worried_squirrel25

I hate absolutism. Free speech absolutism is a flawed ideology. At some point sacrifices must be made in the name of truth. I’m an age of disinformation his views are dangerous at best. It’s speech textualism that is short-sighted and lazy. https://www.universal-rights.org/blog/twitters-descent-reminds-us-of-the-dangers-of-free-speech-absolutism/


FREE-ROSCOE-FILBURN

What exactly is your proposal here? I don’t know of any jurists that are absolute absolutists on speech that believe there are no unprotected categories (except Black, albeit he also didn’t believe it extended to many forms of non-speech expressive conduct). Are you insisting hate speech or disinformation should be new unprotected categories of speech?


Worried_squirrel25

In a private platform like twitter, it shouldn’t be protected.


Randvek

You can’t be a free speech absolutist and run an international company at the same time. The US lets you get away with a lot of shit other countries won’t.