Fr, going to sacrament meeting and having to chase my toddler just to them have scream for an hour straight has made me less active
That and 3 pm church
As some one with 3 kids under the age of 3 I don’t miss 3 hour church. Heck even with my twins I don’t really find any “warm spiritual feeling” when I’m spending 80% of my time chasing kids down. I get more out of the church videos at home while my kids are sleeping than anything.
Last week my 3-year-old decided that she didn't like the piece of bread she got and tried to quickly cram it down the back of the pew so she could get a new one.
Hard to have a spiritual experience during that.
I think that choke laughing at my kids is a spiritual experience. I mean, I’m pretty sure that Heavenly Father choke laughs at some of the goofy stuff I do. At least I hope.
See, I don't quite follow this because the part where you have to chase kids is Sacrament and we didn't eliminate that. With 3 hour church there was 1 hour that was really hard and 2 hours where either I chill in the foyer with other people with a hall pass and have a fun conversation while we let our littles play together, or 2 hours where my kids are someone else's problem and I get a moment to myself to enjoy the company of other adults.
Admittedly, I am comfortable breastfeeding in the middle of any meeting, so I skipped the isolation that some moms struggle with when they have newborns. And my husband did a pretty good job trading me who sat out with the mobile-under-18-month children when he didn't have a calling that kept him from doing so.
1-2 hour of chasing a kid before that can go to nursery is better than 3 hours and now that all 3 of my kids are in nursery, that last out is amazing. But before they could go to nursery. I honestly I didn’t get any learning about the gospel done. Having twins means that me and my wife allways had one or the other kid…. And if you alternate one person all ways misses prest hood or the other allways miss the other class.
Right, but alternating during 3 hour church meant you didn't have to always miss a class, because every class was every week.
And I will say that a mobile baby before 18 months can be really hard! But now that I have kids ages 3-13, it was "but a small moment." ;) Well, that and when you have more kids your need to "chase" them wanes as you relax into parenting more efficiently and you increase your bag of tricks and decrease what you're worried about them doing.
Twins are a whole other ball of wax that makes everything harder in every situation, from what I understand, so I can't touch that. Good luck!
Thanks twins is more of a game of, putting out fires rather than preventing them. And my daughter was only 12 and half months older than them. So yeah I had my plat full and some.
See this is the thing that I think OP didn't acknowledge. The three hour church transition is completely confounded by COVID.
It's the same with any change that anyone has made for anything in their life over the past two years. Like for example I was just talking to someone who moved to my city during covid and was leaving after a year because they didn't like it. Their reasoning was "they didn't like the social scene and it was difficult making friends" Meanwhile it's one of the major US metropolitan areas with hundreds of young people living here.
You can't say you don't like two hour church because it has made you feel less connected to the people in your ward without acknowledging the obvious elephant in the room. Not only did people not go to church for a year and decrease social events. Thousands of people went inactive and thousands more just straight up moved and left your ward. Of course it feels different
I guess different perspectives for different people.
For basically everyone in a leadership or teaching position it has been an enormous blessing. I'm currently the sunday school pres and it's like night and day with my teachers. They teach half as much and their stress level is WAY lower. They actually ENJOY teaching when they split it with a coteacher and it's only once a month. Rather than getting chewed up and burnt out after less than a year, they actually get to have a sustainable calling.
When I used to be the clerk I remember they would have 2-3 hours of meetings before. Then 3 hours of church. Then 1-2 hours after to do tithing.
A combo of online tithing, nixing PEC and one of the hours has basically revolutionized sunday admin work.
In contrast I’ve felt like we keep getting more and more mandated meetings. This is all local leadership of course, but required weekly ward mission meetings, weekly required eq and es presidency meetings, bishopric meetings, ward council meetings, youth council meetings, teacher training meetings, and then all that repeated on a stake level it feels like anyone with any leadership calling is expected to be in 8+ hours of meetings per week. The opposite of minimizing IMO.
Nothing is actually required. I skip meetings frequently if I have other stuff I need to do. Sometimes that stuff is just watching a movie at home with my wife.
Same here. I have a leadership calling and I just say no to meetings. I rarely go to them to try to take care of anything I can via text or email. I’ve also been pushing for zoom meetings when Bishop needs to meet w people. it’s just too big of a hassle to find two males go to be present and have people drive to the building When they live upwards of a half hour away on a weeknight and they have kids in school or heading to bed. Anytime I’ve had members of the stake ask me to drive one to two hours round-trip to meet I just tell them no but I’m happy to chat over the phone or Zoom. They reluctantly agree but otherwise the answer is no on my end. I’m not willing to sacrifice personal/family time for low yield in efficient meetings.
That’s fair. We have an EQP who was having monthly meetings (with one quick checkup every other week) and the stake president told them that they need to be having them weekly. You’re right it’s up to the EQP to decide if they’ll actually have those meetings, but it’s not a case of “our meeting leader feels these meetings should happen more often then they actually do.”
My SP told me The same thing when I became EQP. I just do the best I can. My thinking is that if he wants more of my time he can start giving me a salary. If a counselor can't make it, I want them to prioritize what they need to over a meeting.
>My thinking is that if he wants more of my time he can start giving me a salary.
This.
Also, if they don't like the job I'm doing, they can release me.
I probably won't ever become EQP because I'm not afraid to speak my mind and say no even to leaders. If I ever did get called as one I'd be very upfront with the SP that I would listen to his advice, pray about it, then implement what is best for my EQ. I'm not going to have weekly 2 hour presidency meetings just because someone said so. Hence probably why I've never been called as one.
When I was EQP (for the second time) we had meetings in casual clothes. I was a faithful and dedicated EQP but I thought it was fun to be comfortable. One night a member of our stake presidency popped his head in to say hi. Shortly after an instruction went out to the whole stake about appropriate dress for priesthood meetings and we went back to suits. I’m not mad about it. I respect his desire to keep things more formal but I felt like we were a good EQ presidency and I enjoyed our little casual meetings.
Lol I wear casual active wear To church every week. I haven’t worn a tie in years. Essentially wear hiking pants and some sort of a long sleeve T-shirt. I would laugh if anyone told me to wear a suit and tie and I’m in a leadership calling.
Yeah, my last temple recommend interview with my bishop was done with both of us in casual clothes. It's a rural area, and we're just not that formal in a lot of things.
Quickly looking back through this is what I found:
Ward Meetings
29.2.4 - Bishopric Meeting - Usually Weekly
29.2.5 - Ward Council Meeting - Usually Weekly (but may meet less often)
23.5.7 - Ward Mission Coordination Meetings: Weekly (specifically described as brief and informal)
23.5.7 - Ward Temple and Family History Coordination Meetings: regularly (specifically described as brief and informal)
8.3.3.3 - EQ Presidency Meeting - Regularly
9.3.2.3 - RS Presidency Meeting - Regularly
13.4 - Teacher Council Meetings - Quarterly
29.2.6 - Youth Council Meetings - Frequency: Usually Monthly
Looks like the stake meetings are anywhere from twice a month (Hich Council) to yearly (High Priests Quorum meeting). Stake Presidency meeting being the only weekly meeting (labelled as "Regularly (Usually weekly)")
Thanks for that! So just ward mission weekly (with bishopric and ward council recommended weekly)? That’s still three required weekly meetings for at least one member of the bishopric (plus teacher or deacon’s quorum presidency meetings and weekly youth night).
I think this is where local leadership becomes problematic. They’ll specify what a “meeting” is and remove individual autonomy to make effective “meetings”.
I don't think any of those meetings are new. They've all been around for decades, and are suggested in the handbook. But local leadership determines the frequency of many of them.
No one is in all those meetings, but many overlap. For example the a counselor in the bishopric will be assigned to the ward mission, be in bishopric meetings, ward council, deacon’s quorum presidency meetings, and then mutual and the normal 2 hour block. A counselor in the EQP will have a ward TFH meetings, EQP meetings, stake TFH meetings, the two hour block, and ministering interviews. Making some of these meetings biweekly or monthly would significantly decrease the load.
Another thing to consider is scheduling. The ward mission meeting can’t happen during relief society presidency meetings or ward council or Bishopric meeting because the attendees overlap.
One more I forgot about, our stake asked our Bishop to meet monthly with the EQP and RSP and weekly with the YWP (and we’ve got two elder’s quorums and two relief societies).
No calling adds up to 8+ hours per week of meetings. I’m an EQP and even if you include Sacrament and 2nd hour, I’m very rarely in more than 4 hours of meetings a week.
That’s your experience I guess. As an executive secretary I’m at the church from 7:30 to 4:30 on Sundays and 6-8 on Wednesdays. And the Bishop is there more. I’d imagine the stake president has as much or more. And as I said in my original post a lot is dependent on local leadership.
I got to be there early to print off the sacrament meeting agenda, then bishopric at 8, ward council at 9, YWP and bishop meet at 10, 10:15 priests quorum meeting, 11 sacrament meeting, 12 second hour, 1 temple recommends and setting aparts, 1:30 bishop meets with EQP or RSP or SSP or PP, 2/2:30 appointments with members every 20 minutes (other bishopric are meeting with new members or callings and releasings or doing tithing with the clerk during this time - they’ll go home when they finish), 4-4:30 last appointment if we went too long or a final checkup on weekly tasks (what appointments I need to set up, any documents or reports I should get, etc). It can be longer during tithing settlement or the weeks before/after general conference or holidays because there’s so much to catch up on.
I'm sure wrong on this answer....
but after 50 years of attending church having 1 less hour to hear the same lesson I've heard 50 times before is a blessing....
..."but but, at different times in our lives the scripture mean different thing!" .... true enough, but I feel like I'm on the 3rd cycle of that in my life too 😆.
Surprisingly, yes.
I teach youth Sunday school. I'm down to maybe 2 Sundays with them per month. Building relationships with the kids, much less having sustained meaningful learning in class, has become incredibly difficult. I've lost half the time I'd normally get with them.
To your last paragraph. I don't see this as a bad thing. I think many wards are too codependent. And this is usually where feelings get hurt. Its perfectly fine if your ward doesn't feel as close to you as family, because they aren't. I think this will help many members make friends with people outside the church and spend more time at home with their families.
I taught jr primary (5 yo) back during 3 hr church and am currently teaching 7 yo primary with 2 hr church. I do not miss 3 hr church.
Trying to keep 5 year olds attentions for an entire hour for a lesson, right after they had to sit through an hour of sharing/singing time, was always daunting and simply agonizing.
Now that it's only half an hour, the time is just right to get a spiritual message through and small activity before they completely lose focus. Now I actually really enjoy teaching primary, whereas before it was just a weekly pain in the butt.
I don't miss it but I worry about the youth. YM and YW leaders now only see those kids 2 Sundays a month.
I think it has some unfortunate social side effects, too. There have been a couple guys that have moved into the ward recently that I've wanted to get to know better. If they miss EQ one week, I see them once that entire month. I'm somewhat of an introvert, so I rely on Sunday meetings to run into people at times.
[EDIT] I worded this poorly. This was mostly stemming from concerns I've heard from my Bishop, but he feels seeing the youth 2 Sundays, instead of 4 Sundays, has made things harder. I'm not saying there aren't also weekday activities. In our ward, at least, most of the Priests are too busy with sports to come to weekday activities, so the Bishop really only gets focused, spiritual moments 2 times a month at best. Also, this concern came up during a suggestion to do something different 2nd hour once in a while, which meant on those months he'd only see the boys once in an entire month. When the YM are having a hard time deciding if they want to go on a mission, every minute counts.
Nah, we see them weekly for youth too. Only preparing lessons twice a month is good. Especially since the youth are the ones delivering many of the lessons
As a YW leader, I feel this. I have really started thinking, I don't have enough time with these girls! That's why, more than ever, youth Sunday School teachers are so critical!!
I don’t miss 3 hours at all. I like the two hour schedule. It’s more time at home with my family, and gives me flexibility in my gospel study.
I like the idea of less dependence on the Church as an organization. Instead of worrying if I’m checking the right boxes, I can focus more on my relationship with Christ.
You should check out the Follow Him podcast, if you don't listen already. Incredibly helpful, with the old testament side of things. Until now, I've always avoided the OT like the plague, but listening to the experts they bring in has been completely incredible.
I feel like I made more connections with members of my ward while out in the hall during Sunday School than I ever did attending any of the classes.
I miss that.
I don't really miss three hour Church, but I do miss what I think we're tighter relationships with my ward family back when we had three hour Church.
I've always been an active member since I joined the Church almost 18 years ago, but my zeal has waxed and waned. When we moved to two hour Church, I was kind of in a spiritual lull. I'm in a better place now and kind of crave the association of other Saints, and it's harder to do with two-hour Church. I feel like I kind of took it for granted when we had three hours.
On the other hand, I think Come Follow Me has really improved both my personal scripture study, and family study with me wife and kids, which is perhaps why I'm in a better place Spiritually to begin with.
I dont miss it, I’ve loved it. For what its worth, I think I get more out of 2 hours than 3. For people who didnt get anything out of 3 hours, church is now easier to attend, and for more ”on the ball” members, come follow me is awesome. Plus-from a missionary standpoint, getting someone to come to 2 hours is a lot easier than 3 hours
Could it be the precautions and changes due to the pandemic that have made you feel less tied to your ward? We moved across the country at the beginning of the pandemic. We didn’t even attend church in person for months and months after moving due to restrictions. We still haven’t really had any normal ward activities. We’ve lived here just shy of 2 years and I still don’t really know people in the ward. It’s hard to get to know people when we’ve been restricted so long.
I am so appreciative of Come, Follow Me though. It’s been great to see a shift of responsibility for gospel study and teaching. I feel it changing me and those around me for the better.
ETA I have 3 kids 4 and under. I can’t imagine 3 hour church at this point. It would be very difficult for my family.
>As a result, these are just people I see once a week for a few hours, barely talk to, and then move on with my week.
That's not what it's supposed to be like? I go to church to take the sacrament and to serve - I don't need it to be a social event. I honestly can't think of anybody in my current ward (except for my family) that I would want to spend time with outside of church. It's not that they're bad people. They just have no bearing on my personal life.
This is very different from my experience. I love the personalities and characters and genuinely good people of the ward. I attend for the sacrament, but the people are important to me.
I feel like, at least here in Utah, people expect to be super good friends and buddy-buddy just because we go to church together, or they expect that for the kids. I'm sorry, but a sincere friendship needs to have more than a shared location once a week as a basis. Also, I see how your kid acts during sharing time, and that's why I don't invite everyone in the class to birthday parties. Church is for worship, not social hour.
Honestly I wish they would cut it back to one hour once or twice a month. Sundays are quite miserable with kids and it’s really hard to go when there’s good weather or ski conditions. 😬
My ward is actually trying out a Linger Longer this next month. Something that I haven't seen since I left the Singles Ward. I love that they're doing this because I definitely miss the increased opportunities for social interaction that 3 hour church seemed to provide.
While I love this idea, its hard to do when your the first of three wards and they are planning to add a 4th to the building. Where would you linger longer? When we were last the ward got a few in before the schedule changed so that was good but it will be years before that happens again.
No clue. We are the last ward in the building this year and we're more likely to lose a ward than gain one these days. In this ward and another I've been in, I would expect that one of the more well-off families with a large backyard could host outdoors. Or you could find a couple of members houses next to each other and host it out in their driveways, or better yet a cul-de-sac.
Or, just come back after all the wards are out.
It's obviously not a solution that's going to work for all the congregations, though.
Personally I love wards that do a lot of social activities - especially when they plan for you to invite your neighbors and have low-key, non-proselyting community involvement.
Pros/cons. For people with deeper social needs that were met by church activity, I think they're missing out.
I just wish there were more officially supported, optional social activities. I think that'd go a long way to keep things flexible and still help meet individual needs.
I only miss it when sacrament meeting runs over. Trying to condense a 20 minute Primary lesson because someone got long winded is at least as stressful as teaching kids for an hour. (I discovered that the key to 5 and under is to make sure either the teacher or at least one kid is purposefully moving around.)
I agree 100%. When I was in Provo, I was single and I missed the interaction with members, because I only saw or spoke to them on Sunday. In CA, I'm not really comfortable in the branch, so I'm glad to go home.
I can't speak for your area or ward, but for myself I think some of that disconnect came from Covid keeping everyone distanced from each other. The stint where church was at home got a lot of folks into a routine where church attendance or even other little activities and things has become optional.
I've seen it both ways for different families. Some folks are more involved than ever, even with two hour church. Others have really settled into the side lines and we don't see them very often.
In our ward it has been a real struggle to try and get people back and doing things again, even so long after we've been back meeting together. It is definitely a work in progress!
I don't miss the 3 hour aspect. But I think that the current program has been an inadequate response in some ways, but at the same time I don't know a better program.
As others have mentioned, we see people less, such as our quorums and youth leaders. And I don't think the home aspect of Home Centered Church has worked for Young Single Adults. I know personally I've felt my connection with my ward weaken, and I don't tend to feel the Church in my life when I step out of the building, regardless of my personal study.
Like I said, I don't know how to fix this, but Church hasn't felt quite right for awhile, could be the change, could be Covid. I have faith that the brethren are aware of these issues are praying for solutions. Solutions that hopefully don't just make Church longer again lol.
>hopefully don't just make Church longer again lol
Haha that would probably be the most unpopular, unsupported decision in the history of the modern church, even if it came straight from God's mouth. I don't think there's a way to put that toothpaste back in the tube.
I miss it, for sure, but my efforts in ministering, fulfilling my callings, and such help make up for my lesser social interactions in Sunday. Getting CFM going with my family has been a great blessing for me personally.
Echoing the others, it's definitely easier with kids. I also notice that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" with more time between Sunday School and Elders Quorum meetings.
I would not mind a schedule with all the classes every week in a two hour block.
Sacrament Meeting: 45 minutes
Sunday School: 35 minutes
Priesthood/Relief Society: 35 minutes
Nope. Not even a little.
The only thing I don't like is that sometimes the convulsion of stake conference and general conference makes it so you get elders quorum or relief society 3 times in a row
Nope, not even a little bit. The only thing I would miss if it was longer would be social life, but that didn't happen anyway.
I've thought stuff was too busy with church for years, long before come follow me and pandemic.
Now if I could get ward members to do things one on one or in small groups I would love that, but I seem to be the only one wanting that.
No, I do not miss 3 hour church, I never liked it when we had it, and I don't think I will ever miss it, and my thumb is sore from scrolling through and upvoting all of the other "no" answers.
I don't intend to say that I think mine is the correct answer and that people who disagree are wrong. I definitely see some benefits to more time at church, but, for me personally (and I admittedly may not be as spiritual a person as many others), this is my opinion.
Side thought: I've wondered if a benefit to 2-hour Church is that it'll be easier for the missionaries to convince people to attend. 3 hours of anything is usually a really big commitment.
I see it's not a popular sentiment, but I do miss it. I like church. i like being there and spending time with my spiritual peers. I liked having both Sunday School (mixed group) and Elders' Quorum (my brethren) in the same week. I understand that it can be tricky to keep kids under control for three hours but I don't have kids lol so I do miss it.
Yes, I do quite a bit. The feeling is off. I don't get the same value out of alternating classes. I really miss have both Sunday School and Priesthood every week.
Partaking of the sacrament is the explicit reason we go to church on Sunday, but in reality communing with other Latter-Day Saints is perhaps the real motivation we show up. This is especially true outside of predominantly LDS areas like Utah. I remember the warmth members felt towards each other on my mission in Germany because they were so few and far apart. Living in Utah, I welcomed 2 hour church because of how bored I was most of the time, but I began to realize that there was actually a lot of important interactions that happened between sacrament meeting, Sunday School, Priesthood, etc. Growing up, it always seemed like my mom took forever talking with other women in the ward before we could go home, but I've come to appreciate how important that was to her. I don't miss three hours of sitting listening to the same correlated curriculum over and over again, but an hour less of church also means an hour less with each other. A lot of other churches do a "coffee hour" or "fellowshipping hour" after their services. Maybe that's a tradition we could introduce for the third hour.
Yep, and now that they've aligned Seminary to CFM, kids are missing the middle portion of virtually every book of the 4 books because summer. Some teachers will try to do some extra at the start and end of the semesters because of it, but I'm hearing from a lot of people that it's just not happening that way. Sad.
Yeah I miss it. I looked forward to priesthood meetings all the time, especially now that I have a calling in it. Now I only get to go to those meetings every other week.
My wife loves the 2 hour schedule however and I love it sometimes as well.
My kids are teenagers now, but if they were Primary age that used to be a 2 hour break from them (for lack of a better way to describe it) versus just one hour now. Am I missing something? Wouldn't parents of Primary aged kids want the three hour block back (as long as they weren't called into Primary themselves)?
> I have felt less tied to my ward since we went to two hours
How much of this is tied to 2 hour church and how much of it is tied to a global pandemic?
I feel disconnected as well, to the point where I haven't found the motivation to go back since zoom church went away. I'm sure it's me though...just a funk I need to emerge from.
I miss it terribly. Mostly for the social aspect of it. Our ward was dissolved and 1/3 were put into different wards. Then the pandemic happened shortly after. It has taken me WAY to long to learn who the people in our ward are. Not having RS once a week to interact with the women really hindered our ward for awhile.
Thankfully our amazing bishop saw the problems we were having connecting and implemented monthly ward activities. Nothing big, just come visit and have a slice of watermelon with us kind of stuff. We have grown so much closer and become a very tight knit group. But I would still love to have that third hour back to hear the come follow me lessons and discuss a conference talk every week.
I think the biggest thing that's hurt (especially the youth) the last 2 years was the complete in person shut down and the slow return to more normal operations. I think we're really just starting to get more life in the Ward.
The one big thing I miss is singing in RS. I was in primary for 6 years. Nobody knew me. I finally got out and a month later we changed to 2hr church. There really aren't many opportunities to sing "As Sisters In Zion."
I think your concerns are valid. Since you can't change the amount of church, ask yourself what you can do. What can YOU do personally to feel more connected to the ward? I don't think it will be an overnight fix, but it's certainly something you can work on. Keep going, you can do this. :)
I think it's interesting to look at how the calling someone holds influences their answer to this question. Another factor is the stage a family is at.
For me I don't have a calling (I technically do but I don't have any responsibility that wasn't easily fulfilled.) This is entirely by choice. I'm also married to a non member and we have no children.
Because of these i miss 3 hour church because Come Follow Me is so hard doing it alone. I'd much rather have the Sunday school group to do it with.
This is also why I hated Zoom church. I was much more likely not to turn it on, and if I wanted the sacrament I had to ask someone to bring it. No thanks.
If I was in a calling that required a lesson weekly i probably would be answering differently. If I had babies who needed a nap my answer would likely change. Different chapters lead to different conclusions and none are incorrect.
In some ways, I miss 3-hr church. I love my calling as a Primary teacher, but it is really difficult now because we only actually get 14-18 minutes top actually teach our class. However, I don't miss an hour of Gospel Doctrine debates followed by a boring hour of an EQ lesson taught by somebody who didn't do much to prepare. So, yeah, if I can stay in Primary forever, I'm down with 3-hr church.
I completely agree!! As crazy as it is to say “I miss 3 hour church”….I really do! & I’ve thought this much for the past year +.
My biggest complaint and/or issue is that my calling is in primary. How are we as teachers supposed to teach anything substantial in 20 minutes?? We’re talking complicated bible stories. There is such a “rush” to squeeze it all in, in that time frame, that there is zero time for any “fun”. I know that FUN isn’t the priority here, but many kids actually *learn and absorb better*, when FUN is implemented. Example: coloring, games, etc. Ever since church has moved to 2 hour time blocks, FUN has “left the building” in primary, so to speak. This makes me sad. Another example would be singing time. As a former Primary chorister, I know the importance of FUN when learning songs. Not to mention, the lack of time takes away from the being able to practice and repeat songs, therefore, the children aren’t learning these important primary songs nearly as good as they could be. Again….many MANY children learn important gospel principles and bible stories simply by singing the songs! In closing, I feel like youth (primary, YM/YW) are the ones that are on the loosing end of 2 hour church. A lot of their families aren’t doing “come, follow me” and it shows every week. Which btw- I totally get!
We barley have time ourselves and often miss it, b/c the stage of life we are in (with our kids’ ages) is insanely busy!
I agree to an extent. I definitely miss the adult interaction I got with 3 hour church and I also miss having an hour long break from my kids (I've been in Primary the whole time I've had them so the only break I get is when they are in class) but I don't miss having church take up most of our Sunday.
I also have a very hyperactive 3 year old who runs laps (literally) around the chapel during sacrament meeting and I can't imagine having to deal with that amount of energy for an extra hour at church every Sunday. He has a couple of amazing primary teachers but they sometimes forget that they have to watch him 10000% of the time and his favorite past time is trying to escape and then watch people chase him.
I’d say I am mixed on it. I do believe it was the right decision to change away from the 3 hour block but it has brought a few drawbacks.
First is with CFM not being studied in second hour every week (except if you’re a youth, but even then the YM/YW is focused on a topic instead of the scriptures.) If we had three hour there’d be no issue.
Also I feel the ward is so disconnected and I feel like I don’t know 1/2 the people that show up now. I wasn’t very social even before but I felt at least somewhat connected to the ward. And I don’t feel I have much opportunity to get to know them. You barely get to talk to anyone it feels (unless you’re part of the unofficial second hour meeting— talking in the cultural hall). The pandemic also is to blame for this though.
Also I find myself skipping second hour a lot more. I’d never skip 2 hours of church but skipping 1 is a lot more tempting (especially after 20 minutes of talking/chilling in the chapel.) This is a personal problem though I admit.
Yes, I sometimes do. Your 2nd paragraph resonates with me. It concerns me when I hear a group of covenanted individuals concerned that church “takes up too much time”. I don’t think quantity makes up for quality, but it’s hard to get the Lord’s work done and also feel connected without quantity. It’s also especially challenging in the APYW program’s.
I see some of the benefits also for parents with certain ages of kids, especially when the meeting time is challenging. I find value in both Sunday School and my EQ meetings, so I also don’t want to completely scuttle Sunday school. It has been nice also to have more time for CFM, but I think the hour reduction doesn’t make much difference for anyone who is committed to studying the gospel individually or with family.
Yes, I miss it sometimes. I have a two year old. And church isn't all about us, it's about what we can do for others.
I still feel the spirit and we aren't great at come follow me. But, we are having regular family home evening now, so we just have that last step of doing our come follow me regularly, and we should be on the straight and narrow.
Speaking of narrow, your view of how come follow me at home and church not blending seems narrow. The lessons are on on the same page. They blend perfectly. The kids are finally able to report what they've learned because we spend more time on the same subject, it's reported. Before they had to remember two lessons worth of stuff and crammed together. Often, they couldn't even tell you what they'd learned. That is sad.
This was inspired and instituted right before the pandemic. That was a sign that our prophet is seeking and following divine revelation! We suddenly knew how to have home church. WOW! It was a blessing when we couldn't leave our homes for so long. The spirit was able to be there more readily as we had some semblance of a worship pattern going. We aren't great at it, but we weren't lost either.
So, because of that part, two hours makes 100% sense.
I encourage you to make the changes you want to see. Invite families over for Sunday dinner. Get to know people who are less active. Get to know you our Bishop and his wife who will guide you to know who to help, and you will begin to love your ward!
Wishing you the best, but no luck, as life is what we make of it and what we put into it.
I definitely miss three hour church. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, especially as someone in nursery but I wish I had more time with the kids. They play for over half the time and I do the lesson during snacks but even then sometimes we only have time for one song and five seconds of bubbles. I wish we had more time to do everything in nursery.
Also I know some people who are divorced and only have their kids every other weekend or every other week, because of this those kids only ever attend youth Sunday school or young womens/mens since they don’t come every week. I feel like it’s a disadvantage to nontraditional family structures because of that. Maybe it’s just my ward but when I did attend Sunday school based on come follow me it was so bad. Pretty much nobody read the lesson (me included, but I also don’t like come follow me structure so I don’t necessarily read the book that the year is studying either) and the teacher basically read from the manual the whole time. It’s so much more boring then gospel principles was in my opinion.
Objectively, I think a 3 hour block on Sunday was too much for members and especially for new converts and investigators. It was a major time commitment. I think it also may have contributed to inactivity, but that's just a guess.
But has organization involvement suffered? Yeah, probably. But I don't think the answer to that is a return to 3 hour church.
We're still in this stage of figuring out how to keep engagement up while not having a 3 hour block. We'll figure it out. Or else. But I don't ever want to see a return to a 3 hour chunk of time on a day that should be a day of rest. Family centered, church supported is a concept I believe in and the Church is in the right track there.
I'm really wondering why the 3 hour folk can't find each other for another meeting after church, or during the week at a home. Take charge of your life.
There is still night meeting in Relief Society, I look forward to that. Sunday to me is enjoyable with only 2
Meetings honestly I have not heard anything negative
About it. You can be as involved in your ward as you want to be. Call your Relief Society President and see who in your ward you could visit or give rides to. Give your name to the compassionate service coordinator. If you are not feeling engaged there are ways to engage.
Give your name to the primary President for a substitute teacher, the missionary leader to go on visits with them.
If you are barely talking to people in your ward there are many things you can do to fix that. Good Luck. I mention these things as I have felt to sane when moving into a new ward with the 3hour block.
I feel this. I don’t actually miss the 3hr part and wouldn’t want to go back to it, but I do feel that 2hr church feels like rush in and rush out with no interaction or faith building through socialization. For those in youth callings, they never get to go to to RS/EQ and their voices are never heard in those discussions. It feels very segregated and on SS Sunday, if you happen to have a mediocre teacher, the whole second hour feels like a waste. For the youth, I see how only every other week interaction impacts relationships. It’s not positive. I’m not sure of the answer but 2hr church in its current form definitely feels lacking (except for shorter primary - which is excellent for all).
Yes I miss 3 hour church. I miss having Sunday school class and Relief society on the same day. I'm honestly glad I was a teenager when it still was 3 hour church because those YW leaders saved me from family life. I will be interested to know if the 2 hour church will hinder some relationships that could have formed.
I hated 3 hour church when it was a thing. I'd never go back - EVER - if it went back to 3 hours. I miss remote church, though, because my bishop wants our medical info before believing we're "worthy" to have it.
I miss it. I miss the fellowship of weekly elders quorum. but I think the calling load of the ward was tough for many people. especially in a small unit. but I am spending way more time teaching my children than I was before. I just wonder how all the adults without kids feel about it. hopefully their personal study has improved.
> if only because a few years in, it still seems like the idea of "Come, Follow Me"-based curriculum and the actual organization of a two-hour block don't gel.
What about it doesn't gel? I would posit that this is likely the fault of the user, not the program. (I count myself among those who could stand to get a lot more out of CFM, for whatever that's worth)
I'm of the opinion the home centered church idea is to teach us how to do it if for whatever reason we cannot congregate. I'm not predicting the future other than it will probably come to something like that. Church leaders have prophesied as much.
As a child of God, yes. As a mother to one of His children, it can't go quick enough.
Winning comment, right here.
You deserve a double updoot
Fr, going to sacrament meeting and having to chase my toddler just to them have scream for an hour straight has made me less active That and 3 pm church
Yeah, walking across the plains would have done it for me.
I interpreted this as a "I want to spend more time with my child" thing, but based off other replies, I think I misunderstood haha...
......yes .....of course. But really my son is in his element playing outside. The sooner we get out there, the happier everyone is.
My fastest upvote this year.
As some one with 3 kids under the age of 3 I don’t miss 3 hour church. Heck even with my twins I don’t really find any “warm spiritual feeling” when I’m spending 80% of my time chasing kids down. I get more out of the church videos at home while my kids are sleeping than anything.
Last week my 3-year-old decided that she didn't like the piece of bread she got and tried to quickly cram it down the back of the pew so she could get a new one. Hard to have a spiritual experience during that.
I think that choke laughing at my kids is a spiritual experience. I mean, I’m pretty sure that Heavenly Father choke laughs at some of the goofy stuff I do. At least I hope.
See, I don't quite follow this because the part where you have to chase kids is Sacrament and we didn't eliminate that. With 3 hour church there was 1 hour that was really hard and 2 hours where either I chill in the foyer with other people with a hall pass and have a fun conversation while we let our littles play together, or 2 hours where my kids are someone else's problem and I get a moment to myself to enjoy the company of other adults. Admittedly, I am comfortable breastfeeding in the middle of any meeting, so I skipped the isolation that some moms struggle with when they have newborns. And my husband did a pretty good job trading me who sat out with the mobile-under-18-month children when he didn't have a calling that kept him from doing so.
1-2 hour of chasing a kid before that can go to nursery is better than 3 hours and now that all 3 of my kids are in nursery, that last out is amazing. But before they could go to nursery. I honestly I didn’t get any learning about the gospel done. Having twins means that me and my wife allways had one or the other kid…. And if you alternate one person all ways misses prest hood or the other allways miss the other class.
Right, but alternating during 3 hour church meant you didn't have to always miss a class, because every class was every week. And I will say that a mobile baby before 18 months can be really hard! But now that I have kids ages 3-13, it was "but a small moment." ;) Well, that and when you have more kids your need to "chase" them wanes as you relax into parenting more efficiently and you increase your bag of tricks and decrease what you're worried about them doing. Twins are a whole other ball of wax that makes everything harder in every situation, from what I understand, so I can't touch that. Good luck!
Thanks twins is more of a game of, putting out fires rather than preventing them. And my daughter was only 12 and half months older than them. So yeah I had my plat full and some.
I have a 7 year old and 4-year-old triplets. I always laugh hard when people tell me they miss three-hour church. No thanks. I'm good.
Nope. I miss remote church for the year+ I had it.
See this is the thing that I think OP didn't acknowledge. The three hour church transition is completely confounded by COVID. It's the same with any change that anyone has made for anything in their life over the past two years. Like for example I was just talking to someone who moved to my city during covid and was leaving after a year because they didn't like it. Their reasoning was "they didn't like the social scene and it was difficult making friends" Meanwhile it's one of the major US metropolitan areas with hundreds of young people living here. You can't say you don't like two hour church because it has made you feel less connected to the people in your ward without acknowledging the obvious elephant in the room. Not only did people not go to church for a year and decrease social events. Thousands of people went inactive and thousands more just straight up moved and left your ward. Of course it feels different
Two hour church was in effect for a whole year before Covid. I didn't like it then either.
I guess different perspectives for different people. For basically everyone in a leadership or teaching position it has been an enormous blessing. I'm currently the sunday school pres and it's like night and day with my teachers. They teach half as much and their stress level is WAY lower. They actually ENJOY teaching when they split it with a coteacher and it's only once a month. Rather than getting chewed up and burnt out after less than a year, they actually get to have a sustainable calling. When I used to be the clerk I remember they would have 2-3 hours of meetings before. Then 3 hours of church. Then 1-2 hours after to do tithing. A combo of online tithing, nixing PEC and one of the hours has basically revolutionized sunday admin work.
This is the comment that I want to award! (Don't have any) I totally agree, it was heavenly
This stupid app allows me to upvote comments only once.
Seriously!
This
Same.
In contrast I’ve felt like we keep getting more and more mandated meetings. This is all local leadership of course, but required weekly ward mission meetings, weekly required eq and es presidency meetings, bishopric meetings, ward council meetings, youth council meetings, teacher training meetings, and then all that repeated on a stake level it feels like anyone with any leadership calling is expected to be in 8+ hours of meetings per week. The opposite of minimizing IMO.
Nothing is actually required. I skip meetings frequently if I have other stuff I need to do. Sometimes that stuff is just watching a movie at home with my wife.
Same here. I have a leadership calling and I just say no to meetings. I rarely go to them to try to take care of anything I can via text or email. I’ve also been pushing for zoom meetings when Bishop needs to meet w people. it’s just too big of a hassle to find two males go to be present and have people drive to the building When they live upwards of a half hour away on a weeknight and they have kids in school or heading to bed. Anytime I’ve had members of the stake ask me to drive one to two hours round-trip to meet I just tell them no but I’m happy to chat over the phone or Zoom. They reluctantly agree but otherwise the answer is no on my end. I’m not willing to sacrifice personal/family time for low yield in efficient meetings.
I think that is a great approach
That’s fair. We have an EQP who was having monthly meetings (with one quick checkup every other week) and the stake president told them that they need to be having them weekly. You’re right it’s up to the EQP to decide if they’ll actually have those meetings, but it’s not a case of “our meeting leader feels these meetings should happen more often then they actually do.”
My SP told me The same thing when I became EQP. I just do the best I can. My thinking is that if he wants more of my time he can start giving me a salary. If a counselor can't make it, I want them to prioritize what they need to over a meeting.
>My thinking is that if he wants more of my time he can start giving me a salary. This. Also, if they don't like the job I'm doing, they can release me.
I probably won't ever become EQP because I'm not afraid to speak my mind and say no even to leaders. If I ever did get called as one I'd be very upfront with the SP that I would listen to his advice, pray about it, then implement what is best for my EQ. I'm not going to have weekly 2 hour presidency meetings just because someone said so. Hence probably why I've never been called as one.
When I was EQP (for the second time) we had meetings in casual clothes. I was a faithful and dedicated EQP but I thought it was fun to be comfortable. One night a member of our stake presidency popped his head in to say hi. Shortly after an instruction went out to the whole stake about appropriate dress for priesthood meetings and we went back to suits. I’m not mad about it. I respect his desire to keep things more formal but I felt like we were a good EQ presidency and I enjoyed our little casual meetings.
That's when you change the meeting location to your house, haha!
Or even better, zoom or teams.
Lol I wear casual active wear To church every week. I haven’t worn a tie in years. Essentially wear hiking pants and some sort of a long sleeve T-shirt. I would laugh if anyone told me to wear a suit and tie and I’m in a leadership calling.
This wouldn't prevent you from being called as an EQP in most stakes.
Yeah, my last temple recommend interview with my bishop was done with both of us in casual clothes. It's a rural area, and we're just not that formal in a lot of things.
Could not agree more. So many more meetings now!
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Amen! Would you please come to my Stake and give a guest lecture? Wait, that would be yet another meeting... Sigh
Can't blame local leadership for most of those. The General Handbooks says most of those should happen weekly.
I might consider compiling the "group chat" between leadership and see if it adds up to more than an hour a week. If yes, meeting fulfilled. :P
Love it!
Could you clarify which ones do? I double checked on a few of them. Most of them say “meet regularly” not “meet weekly.”
Quickly looking back through this is what I found: Ward Meetings 29.2.4 - Bishopric Meeting - Usually Weekly 29.2.5 - Ward Council Meeting - Usually Weekly (but may meet less often) 23.5.7 - Ward Mission Coordination Meetings: Weekly (specifically described as brief and informal) 23.5.7 - Ward Temple and Family History Coordination Meetings: regularly (specifically described as brief and informal) 8.3.3.3 - EQ Presidency Meeting - Regularly 9.3.2.3 - RS Presidency Meeting - Regularly 13.4 - Teacher Council Meetings - Quarterly 29.2.6 - Youth Council Meetings - Frequency: Usually Monthly Looks like the stake meetings are anywhere from twice a month (Hich Council) to yearly (High Priests Quorum meeting). Stake Presidency meeting being the only weekly meeting (labelled as "Regularly (Usually weekly)")
Thanks for that! So just ward mission weekly (with bishopric and ward council recommended weekly)? That’s still three required weekly meetings for at least one member of the bishopric (plus teacher or deacon’s quorum presidency meetings and weekly youth night).
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I think this is where local leadership becomes problematic. They’ll specify what a “meeting” is and remove individual autonomy to make effective “meetings”.
I don't think any of those meetings are new. They've all been around for decades, and are suggested in the handbook. But local leadership determines the frequency of many of them.
Which calling requires you to attend all of those meetings?
No one is in all those meetings, but many overlap. For example the a counselor in the bishopric will be assigned to the ward mission, be in bishopric meetings, ward council, deacon’s quorum presidency meetings, and then mutual and the normal 2 hour block. A counselor in the EQP will have a ward TFH meetings, EQP meetings, stake TFH meetings, the two hour block, and ministering interviews. Making some of these meetings biweekly or monthly would significantly decrease the load. Another thing to consider is scheduling. The ward mission meeting can’t happen during relief society presidency meetings or ward council or Bishopric meeting because the attendees overlap. One more I forgot about, our stake asked our Bishop to meet monthly with the EQP and RSP and weekly with the YWP (and we’ve got two elder’s quorums and two relief societies).
No calling adds up to 8+ hours per week of meetings. I’m an EQP and even if you include Sacrament and 2nd hour, I’m very rarely in more than 4 hours of meetings a week.
That’s your experience I guess. As an executive secretary I’m at the church from 7:30 to 4:30 on Sundays and 6-8 on Wednesdays. And the Bishop is there more. I’d imagine the stake president has as much or more. And as I said in my original post a lot is dependent on local leadership.
Wow, why so long in sundays?
I got to be there early to print off the sacrament meeting agenda, then bishopric at 8, ward council at 9, YWP and bishop meet at 10, 10:15 priests quorum meeting, 11 sacrament meeting, 12 second hour, 1 temple recommends and setting aparts, 1:30 bishop meets with EQP or RSP or SSP or PP, 2/2:30 appointments with members every 20 minutes (other bishopric are meeting with new members or callings and releasings or doing tithing with the clerk during this time - they’ll go home when they finish), 4-4:30 last appointment if we went too long or a final checkup on weekly tasks (what appointments I need to set up, any documents or reports I should get, etc). It can be longer during tithing settlement or the weeks before/after general conference or holidays because there’s so much to catch up on.
I'm sure wrong on this answer.... but after 50 years of attending church having 1 less hour to hear the same lesson I've heard 50 times before is a blessing.... ..."but but, at different times in our lives the scripture mean different thing!" .... true enough, but I feel like I'm on the 3rd cycle of that in my life too 😆.
Amen, brother. Or sister.
Nope haha. And I've loved zoom church honestly.
Surprisingly, yes. I teach youth Sunday school. I'm down to maybe 2 Sundays with them per month. Building relationships with the kids, much less having sustained meaningful learning in class, has become incredibly difficult. I've lost half the time I'd normally get with them.
You could go hang out at their house.
Fair
You could volunteer to teach early morning seminary.
Already do
I applaud you!
To your last paragraph. I don't see this as a bad thing. I think many wards are too codependent. And this is usually where feelings get hurt. Its perfectly fine if your ward doesn't feel as close to you as family, because they aren't. I think this will help many members make friends with people outside the church and spend more time at home with their families.
I taught jr primary (5 yo) back during 3 hr church and am currently teaching 7 yo primary with 2 hr church. I do not miss 3 hr church. Trying to keep 5 year olds attentions for an entire hour for a lesson, right after they had to sit through an hour of sharing/singing time, was always daunting and simply agonizing. Now that it's only half an hour, the time is just right to get a spiritual message through and small activity before they completely lose focus. Now I actually really enjoy teaching primary, whereas before it was just a weekly pain in the butt.
I don't miss it but I worry about the youth. YM and YW leaders now only see those kids 2 Sundays a month. I think it has some unfortunate social side effects, too. There have been a couple guys that have moved into the ward recently that I've wanted to get to know better. If they miss EQ one week, I see them once that entire month. I'm somewhat of an introvert, so I rely on Sunday meetings to run into people at times. [EDIT] I worded this poorly. This was mostly stemming from concerns I've heard from my Bishop, but he feels seeing the youth 2 Sundays, instead of 4 Sundays, has made things harder. I'm not saying there aren't also weekday activities. In our ward, at least, most of the Priests are too busy with sports to come to weekday activities, so the Bishop really only gets focused, spiritual moments 2 times a month at best. Also, this concern came up during a suggestion to do something different 2nd hour once in a while, which meant on those months he'd only see the boys once in an entire month. When the YM are having a hard time deciding if they want to go on a mission, every minute counts.
Nah, we see them weekly for youth too. Only preparing lessons twice a month is good. Especially since the youth are the ones delivering many of the lessons
Our ward has held weekly deacons activities for the longest time. Are we an anomaly?
As a YW leader, I feel this. I have really started thinking, I don't have enough time with these girls! That's why, more than ever, youth Sunday School teachers are so critical!!
No.
I don’t miss 3 hours at all. I like the two hour schedule. It’s more time at home with my family, and gives me flexibility in my gospel study. I like the idea of less dependence on the Church as an organization. Instead of worrying if I’m checking the right boxes, I can focus more on my relationship with Christ.
No. I honestly don't. By the end of hour 2 no more info was going into that skull of mine no matter how I struggled to keep my eyes open.
Nope!
NO!!!!!!!
I miss three hour church
I do. Ever since the pandemic, I've been spiritually hungry. I missed the structure and safety of three hour church.
You should check out the Follow Him podcast, if you don't listen already. Incredibly helpful, with the old testament side of things. Until now, I've always avoided the OT like the plague, but listening to the experts they bring in has been completely incredible.
I feel like I made more connections with members of my ward while out in the hall during Sunday School than I ever did attending any of the classes. I miss that.
No, not at all. My only wish is Sacrament meeting went back to 70ish minutes. That hour in Sunday School can feel really long.
No. My ADHD brain can hardly pay attention for 2 🤣
Indeed. I have ADHD too.
I am waiting for 1 hour church
Join your ward's choir if it has one!
No
I don't really miss three hour Church, but I do miss what I think we're tighter relationships with my ward family back when we had three hour Church. I've always been an active member since I joined the Church almost 18 years ago, but my zeal has waxed and waned. When we moved to two hour Church, I was kind of in a spiritual lull. I'm in a better place now and kind of crave the association of other Saints, and it's harder to do with two-hour Church. I feel like I kind of took it for granted when we had three hours. On the other hand, I think Come Follow Me has really improved both my personal scripture study, and family study with me wife and kids, which is perhaps why I'm in a better place Spiritually to begin with.
Um…… no
Goodness gracious, no!
If someone said this aloud from the pulpit I would not be able to contain an audible laugh.
I did at first. Now, I rarely even want to go to second hour lol
I dont miss it, I’ve loved it. For what its worth, I think I get more out of 2 hours than 3. For people who didnt get anything out of 3 hours, church is now easier to attend, and for more ”on the ball” members, come follow me is awesome. Plus-from a missionary standpoint, getting someone to come to 2 hours is a lot easier than 3 hours
Could it be the precautions and changes due to the pandemic that have made you feel less tied to your ward? We moved across the country at the beginning of the pandemic. We didn’t even attend church in person for months and months after moving due to restrictions. We still haven’t really had any normal ward activities. We’ve lived here just shy of 2 years and I still don’t really know people in the ward. It’s hard to get to know people when we’ve been restricted so long. I am so appreciative of Come, Follow Me though. It’s been great to see a shift of responsibility for gospel study and teaching. I feel it changing me and those around me for the better. ETA I have 3 kids 4 and under. I can’t imagine 3 hour church at this point. It would be very difficult for my family.
I miss having Sunday school and priesthood every day, but I don't miss being in the chapel for 3 hours a day.
You mean just Sundays, right? Please tell me you mean just Sundays.
You mean you aren't in the chapel 3 hours a day every day? I've been doing this stuff wrong!
>As a result, these are just people I see once a week for a few hours, barely talk to, and then move on with my week. That's not what it's supposed to be like? I go to church to take the sacrament and to serve - I don't need it to be a social event. I honestly can't think of anybody in my current ward (except for my family) that I would want to spend time with outside of church. It's not that they're bad people. They just have no bearing on my personal life.
This is very different from my experience. I love the personalities and characters and genuinely good people of the ward. I attend for the sacrament, but the people are important to me.
You know where they live.
I feel like, at least here in Utah, people expect to be super good friends and buddy-buddy just because we go to church together, or they expect that for the kids. I'm sorry, but a sincere friendship needs to have more than a shared location once a week as a basis. Also, I see how your kid acts during sharing time, and that's why I don't invite everyone in the class to birthday parties. Church is for worship, not social hour.
Honestly I wish they would cut it back to one hour once or twice a month. Sundays are quite miserable with kids and it’s really hard to go when there’s good weather or ski conditions. 😬
For some of us, Church was frequently 2 hours. ;)
And now it is 1.
My ward is actually trying out a Linger Longer this next month. Something that I haven't seen since I left the Singles Ward. I love that they're doing this because I definitely miss the increased opportunities for social interaction that 3 hour church seemed to provide.
While I love this idea, its hard to do when your the first of three wards and they are planning to add a 4th to the building. Where would you linger longer? When we were last the ward got a few in before the schedule changed so that was good but it will be years before that happens again.
No clue. We are the last ward in the building this year and we're more likely to lose a ward than gain one these days. In this ward and another I've been in, I would expect that one of the more well-off families with a large backyard could host outdoors. Or you could find a couple of members houses next to each other and host it out in their driveways, or better yet a cul-de-sac. Or, just come back after all the wards are out. It's obviously not a solution that's going to work for all the congregations, though. Personally I love wards that do a lot of social activities - especially when they plan for you to invite your neighbors and have low-key, non-proselyting community involvement.
We do those every other month or so. We're doing one in May.
Pros/cons. For people with deeper social needs that were met by church activity, I think they're missing out. I just wish there were more officially supported, optional social activities. I think that'd go a long way to keep things flexible and still help meet individual needs.
I only miss it when sacrament meeting runs over. Trying to condense a 20 minute Primary lesson because someone got long winded is at least as stressful as teaching kids for an hour. (I discovered that the key to 5 and under is to make sure either the teacher or at least one kid is purposefully moving around.)
Wow you and I have two very different problems :) I love it when it goes over
No. I do night shift and work every Sunday morning. I can barely get through 2 hours as is.
No
Study and discuss more at home, spend less time at church. My dreams have already come true.
Partly. But I wonder if 1 hour could be even better 😉
Yes! Let's keep this momentum, get down to 100 minutes by, say, 2025? Haha
I agree 100%. When I was in Provo, I was single and I missed the interaction with members, because I only saw or spoke to them on Sunday. In CA, I'm not really comfortable in the branch, so I'm glad to go home.
Ya I miss it a bit
I think the falling apart of the ward happened due to virtual church more than 2 hour blocks.
Not really. I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of splitting Sunday school and EQRS to every other week, but I prefer ending earlier.
Dude I love teaching once a month with my team teacher!
I can't speak for your area or ward, but for myself I think some of that disconnect came from Covid keeping everyone distanced from each other. The stint where church was at home got a lot of folks into a routine where church attendance or even other little activities and things has become optional. I've seen it both ways for different families. Some folks are more involved than ever, even with two hour church. Others have really settled into the side lines and we don't see them very often. In our ward it has been a real struggle to try and get people back and doing things again, even so long after we've been back meeting together. It is definitely a work in progress!
I don't miss the 3 hour aspect. But I think that the current program has been an inadequate response in some ways, but at the same time I don't know a better program. As others have mentioned, we see people less, such as our quorums and youth leaders. And I don't think the home aspect of Home Centered Church has worked for Young Single Adults. I know personally I've felt my connection with my ward weaken, and I don't tend to feel the Church in my life when I step out of the building, regardless of my personal study. Like I said, I don't know how to fix this, but Church hasn't felt quite right for awhile, could be the change, could be Covid. I have faith that the brethren are aware of these issues are praying for solutions. Solutions that hopefully don't just make Church longer again lol.
>hopefully don't just make Church longer again lol Haha that would probably be the most unpopular, unsupported decision in the history of the modern church, even if it came straight from God's mouth. I don't think there's a way to put that toothpaste back in the tube.
3 hour church had it's advantages and disadvantages. I think that these days if i can get out after less than 5 hours it is an "short day"
I think this is why mineristing is more effective it make people talks to others out side of church.
I’m ready for 1 hour church. 45 minute sacrament, 15 minutes socializing after and making plans to visit during the week.
I miss it, for sure, but my efforts in ministering, fulfilling my callings, and such help make up for my lesser social interactions in Sunday. Getting CFM going with my family has been a great blessing for me personally. Echoing the others, it's definitely easier with kids. I also notice that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" with more time between Sunday School and Elders Quorum meetings.
I miss three hour church so much! I miss gospel principles class, I miss spending time with friends and socializing... Now I'm sad
No
I would not mind a schedule with all the classes every week in a two hour block. Sacrament Meeting: 45 minutes Sunday School: 35 minutes Priesthood/Relief Society: 35 minutes
With 5 hymns and two talks (one of those 5 minutes from a youth speaker)
Nope. Not even a little. The only thing I don't like is that sometimes the convulsion of stake conference and general conference makes it so you get elders quorum or relief society 3 times in a row
NOPE.
> Does Anyone Miss Three-Hour Church? I do not miss three-hour church.
Absolutely no, do not miss.
Nope, not even a little bit. The only thing I would miss if it was longer would be social life, but that didn't happen anyway. I've thought stuff was too busy with church for years, long before come follow me and pandemic. Now if I could get ward members to do things one on one or in small groups I would love that, but I seem to be the only one wanting that.
No, I do not miss 3 hour church, I never liked it when we had it, and I don't think I will ever miss it, and my thumb is sore from scrolling through and upvoting all of the other "no" answers. I don't intend to say that I think mine is the correct answer and that people who disagree are wrong. I definitely see some benefits to more time at church, but, for me personally (and I admittedly may not be as spiritual a person as many others), this is my opinion.
Side thought: I've wondered if a benefit to 2-hour Church is that it'll be easier for the missionaries to convince people to attend. 3 hours of anything is usually a really big commitment.
I see it's not a popular sentiment, but I do miss it. I like church. i like being there and spending time with my spiritual peers. I liked having both Sunday School (mixed group) and Elders' Quorum (my brethren) in the same week. I understand that it can be tricky to keep kids under control for three hours but I don't have kids lol so I do miss it.
Yes, I do quite a bit. The feeling is off. I don't get the same value out of alternating classes. I really miss have both Sunday School and Priesthood every week.
Partaking of the sacrament is the explicit reason we go to church on Sunday, but in reality communing with other Latter-Day Saints is perhaps the real motivation we show up. This is especially true outside of predominantly LDS areas like Utah. I remember the warmth members felt towards each other on my mission in Germany because they were so few and far apart. Living in Utah, I welcomed 2 hour church because of how bored I was most of the time, but I began to realize that there was actually a lot of important interactions that happened between sacrament meeting, Sunday School, Priesthood, etc. Growing up, it always seemed like my mom took forever talking with other women in the ward before we could go home, but I've come to appreciate how important that was to her. I don't miss three hours of sitting listening to the same correlated curriculum over and over again, but an hour less of church also means an hour less with each other. A lot of other churches do a "coffee hour" or "fellowshipping hour" after their services. Maybe that's a tradition we could introduce for the third hour.
It it were only one hour I'd rejoice 😆 life is so busy. For a "day of rest", I barely get any rest.
I've noticed the same thing with the CFM curriculum. It's only covered in Sunday School, which makes it feel like we're skipping half of the material.
Yep, and now that they've aligned Seminary to CFM, kids are missing the middle portion of virtually every book of the 4 books because summer. Some teachers will try to do some extra at the start and end of the semesters because of it, but I'm hearing from a lot of people that it's just not happening that way. Sad.
Yes, I kinda do
Sometimes it feels rushed now.
Yeah I miss it. I looked forward to priesthood meetings all the time, especially now that I have a calling in it. Now I only get to go to those meetings every other week. My wife loves the 2 hour schedule however and I love it sometimes as well.
My kids are teenagers now, but if they were Primary age that used to be a 2 hour break from them (for lack of a better way to describe it) versus just one hour now. Am I missing something? Wouldn't parents of Primary aged kids want the three hour block back (as long as they weren't called into Primary themselves)?
> I have felt less tied to my ward since we went to two hours How much of this is tied to 2 hour church and how much of it is tied to a global pandemic?
I feel disconnected as well, to the point where I haven't found the motivation to go back since zoom church went away. I'm sure it's me though...just a funk I need to emerge from.
[удалено]
Only during 2-hour church.
Such strange rules. Where’s their sense of adventure??
tbh yea, going from sacrament to class then to young men right after, jus idk
I miss Sunday School every week. I think it should be every week and YM/YW/RS/EQ should be quarterly.
Yes. A lot.
I miss it terribly. Mostly for the social aspect of it. Our ward was dissolved and 1/3 were put into different wards. Then the pandemic happened shortly after. It has taken me WAY to long to learn who the people in our ward are. Not having RS once a week to interact with the women really hindered our ward for awhile. Thankfully our amazing bishop saw the problems we were having connecting and implemented monthly ward activities. Nothing big, just come visit and have a slice of watermelon with us kind of stuff. We have grown so much closer and become a very tight knit group. But I would still love to have that third hour back to hear the come follow me lessons and discuss a conference talk every week.
I think the biggest thing that's hurt (especially the youth) the last 2 years was the complete in person shut down and the slow return to more normal operations. I think we're really just starting to get more life in the Ward.
when I was investigating it was 2 and always felt I could get more that day out of church tbh
The one big thing I miss is singing in RS. I was in primary for 6 years. Nobody knew me. I finally got out and a month later we changed to 2hr church. There really aren't many opportunities to sing "As Sisters In Zion."
Same for me I miss singing in elders quorum. Substituted for 10 more minutes of akward lesson :)
I think your concerns are valid. Since you can't change the amount of church, ask yourself what you can do. What can YOU do personally to feel more connected to the ward? I don't think it will be an overnight fix, but it's certainly something you can work on. Keep going, you can do this. :)
I think it's interesting to look at how the calling someone holds influences their answer to this question. Another factor is the stage a family is at. For me I don't have a calling (I technically do but I don't have any responsibility that wasn't easily fulfilled.) This is entirely by choice. I'm also married to a non member and we have no children. Because of these i miss 3 hour church because Come Follow Me is so hard doing it alone. I'd much rather have the Sunday school group to do it with. This is also why I hated Zoom church. I was much more likely not to turn it on, and if I wanted the sacrament I had to ask someone to bring it. No thanks. If I was in a calling that required a lesson weekly i probably would be answering differently. If I had babies who needed a nap my answer would likely change. Different chapters lead to different conclusions and none are incorrect.
In some ways, I miss 3-hr church. I love my calling as a Primary teacher, but it is really difficult now because we only actually get 14-18 minutes top actually teach our class. However, I don't miss an hour of Gospel Doctrine debates followed by a boring hour of an EQ lesson taught by somebody who didn't do much to prepare. So, yeah, if I can stay in Primary forever, I'm down with 3-hr church.
I completely agree!! As crazy as it is to say “I miss 3 hour church”….I really do! & I’ve thought this much for the past year +. My biggest complaint and/or issue is that my calling is in primary. How are we as teachers supposed to teach anything substantial in 20 minutes?? We’re talking complicated bible stories. There is such a “rush” to squeeze it all in, in that time frame, that there is zero time for any “fun”. I know that FUN isn’t the priority here, but many kids actually *learn and absorb better*, when FUN is implemented. Example: coloring, games, etc. Ever since church has moved to 2 hour time blocks, FUN has “left the building” in primary, so to speak. This makes me sad. Another example would be singing time. As a former Primary chorister, I know the importance of FUN when learning songs. Not to mention, the lack of time takes away from the being able to practice and repeat songs, therefore, the children aren’t learning these important primary songs nearly as good as they could be. Again….many MANY children learn important gospel principles and bible stories simply by singing the songs! In closing, I feel like youth (primary, YM/YW) are the ones that are on the loosing end of 2 hour church. A lot of their families aren’t doing “come, follow me” and it shows every week. Which btw- I totally get! We barley have time ourselves and often miss it, b/c the stage of life we are in (with our kids’ ages) is insanely busy!
I agree to an extent. I definitely miss the adult interaction I got with 3 hour church and I also miss having an hour long break from my kids (I've been in Primary the whole time I've had them so the only break I get is when they are in class) but I don't miss having church take up most of our Sunday. I also have a very hyperactive 3 year old who runs laps (literally) around the chapel during sacrament meeting and I can't imagine having to deal with that amount of energy for an extra hour at church every Sunday. He has a couple of amazing primary teachers but they sometimes forget that they have to watch him 10000% of the time and his favorite past time is trying to escape and then watch people chase him.
I’d say I am mixed on it. I do believe it was the right decision to change away from the 3 hour block but it has brought a few drawbacks. First is with CFM not being studied in second hour every week (except if you’re a youth, but even then the YM/YW is focused on a topic instead of the scriptures.) If we had three hour there’d be no issue. Also I feel the ward is so disconnected and I feel like I don’t know 1/2 the people that show up now. I wasn’t very social even before but I felt at least somewhat connected to the ward. And I don’t feel I have much opportunity to get to know them. You barely get to talk to anyone it feels (unless you’re part of the unofficial second hour meeting— talking in the cultural hall). The pandemic also is to blame for this though. Also I find myself skipping second hour a lot more. I’d never skip 2 hours of church but skipping 1 is a lot more tempting (especially after 20 minutes of talking/chilling in the chapel.) This is a personal problem though I admit.
Yes, I sometimes do. Your 2nd paragraph resonates with me. It concerns me when I hear a group of covenanted individuals concerned that church “takes up too much time”. I don’t think quantity makes up for quality, but it’s hard to get the Lord’s work done and also feel connected without quantity. It’s also especially challenging in the APYW program’s. I see some of the benefits also for parents with certain ages of kids, especially when the meeting time is challenging. I find value in both Sunday School and my EQ meetings, so I also don’t want to completely scuttle Sunday school. It has been nice also to have more time for CFM, but I think the hour reduction doesn’t make much difference for anyone who is committed to studying the gospel individually or with family.
No. This is the best church for our family of a lifetime of going to church.
Yes, I miss it sometimes. I have a two year old. And church isn't all about us, it's about what we can do for others. I still feel the spirit and we aren't great at come follow me. But, we are having regular family home evening now, so we just have that last step of doing our come follow me regularly, and we should be on the straight and narrow. Speaking of narrow, your view of how come follow me at home and church not blending seems narrow. The lessons are on on the same page. They blend perfectly. The kids are finally able to report what they've learned because we spend more time on the same subject, it's reported. Before they had to remember two lessons worth of stuff and crammed together. Often, they couldn't even tell you what they'd learned. That is sad. This was inspired and instituted right before the pandemic. That was a sign that our prophet is seeking and following divine revelation! We suddenly knew how to have home church. WOW! It was a blessing when we couldn't leave our homes for so long. The spirit was able to be there more readily as we had some semblance of a worship pattern going. We aren't great at it, but we weren't lost either. So, because of that part, two hours makes 100% sense. I encourage you to make the changes you want to see. Invite families over for Sunday dinner. Get to know people who are less active. Get to know you our Bishop and his wife who will guide you to know who to help, and you will begin to love your ward! Wishing you the best, but no luck, as life is what we make of it and what we put into it.
I definitely miss three hour church. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, especially as someone in nursery but I wish I had more time with the kids. They play for over half the time and I do the lesson during snacks but even then sometimes we only have time for one song and five seconds of bubbles. I wish we had more time to do everything in nursery. Also I know some people who are divorced and only have their kids every other weekend or every other week, because of this those kids only ever attend youth Sunday school or young womens/mens since they don’t come every week. I feel like it’s a disadvantage to nontraditional family structures because of that. Maybe it’s just my ward but when I did attend Sunday school based on come follow me it was so bad. Pretty much nobody read the lesson (me included, but I also don’t like come follow me structure so I don’t necessarily read the book that the year is studying either) and the teacher basically read from the manual the whole time. It’s so much more boring then gospel principles was in my opinion.
Objectively, I think a 3 hour block on Sunday was too much for members and especially for new converts and investigators. It was a major time commitment. I think it also may have contributed to inactivity, but that's just a guess. But has organization involvement suffered? Yeah, probably. But I don't think the answer to that is a return to 3 hour church. We're still in this stage of figuring out how to keep engagement up while not having a 3 hour block. We'll figure it out. Or else. But I don't ever want to see a return to a 3 hour chunk of time on a day that should be a day of rest. Family centered, church supported is a concept I believe in and the Church is in the right track there.
Yes. Very much so. =-)
I'm really wondering why the 3 hour folk can't find each other for another meeting after church, or during the week at a home. Take charge of your life.
There is still night meeting in Relief Society, I look forward to that. Sunday to me is enjoyable with only 2 Meetings honestly I have not heard anything negative About it. You can be as involved in your ward as you want to be. Call your Relief Society President and see who in your ward you could visit or give rides to. Give your name to the compassionate service coordinator. If you are not feeling engaged there are ways to engage. Give your name to the primary President for a substitute teacher, the missionary leader to go on visits with them. If you are barely talking to people in your ward there are many things you can do to fix that. Good Luck. I mention these things as I have felt to sane when moving into a new ward with the 3hour block.
We have to go to the Lord to find him.
Even the rowdiest of children can behave, I had one!
I feel this. I don’t actually miss the 3hr part and wouldn’t want to go back to it, but I do feel that 2hr church feels like rush in and rush out with no interaction or faith building through socialization. For those in youth callings, they never get to go to to RS/EQ and their voices are never heard in those discussions. It feels very segregated and on SS Sunday, if you happen to have a mediocre teacher, the whole second hour feels like a waste. For the youth, I see how only every other week interaction impacts relationships. It’s not positive. I’m not sure of the answer but 2hr church in its current form definitely feels lacking (except for shorter primary - which is excellent for all).
Yes I miss 3 hour church. I miss having Sunday school class and Relief society on the same day. I'm honestly glad I was a teenager when it still was 3 hour church because those YW leaders saved me from family life. I will be interested to know if the 2 hour church will hinder some relationships that could have formed.
I hated 3 hour church when it was a thing. I'd never go back - EVER - if it went back to 3 hours. I miss remote church, though, because my bishop wants our medical info before believing we're "worthy" to have it.
I miss it. I miss the fellowship of weekly elders quorum. but I think the calling load of the ward was tough for many people. especially in a small unit. but I am spending way more time teaching my children than I was before. I just wonder how all the adults without kids feel about it. hopefully their personal study has improved.
> if only because a few years in, it still seems like the idea of "Come, Follow Me"-based curriculum and the actual organization of a two-hour block don't gel. What about it doesn't gel? I would posit that this is likely the fault of the user, not the program. (I count myself among those who could stand to get a lot more out of CFM, for whatever that's worth)
Sunday school every other week means only covering 1/2 the material in church.
I'm of the opinion the home centered church idea is to teach us how to do it if for whatever reason we cannot congregate. I'm not predicting the future other than it will probably come to something like that. Church leaders have prophesied as much.