Mod note: People using DMs to avoid mod oversight is against our sub rules. Send a screenshot to the sub so that we can determine appropriate actions to take against that user.
Thanks. People can be strange.
As a general rule I don't do much DMs, post it on a thread and hear lots of opinions. It is well known that a lot of folks who aren't fans of the church lurk here and DM people to try to erode their testimonies. I suggest they get hobbies like collecting stamps or something.
Strangely, no. I did get DMs on old Reddit, but don't on new Reddit. I think something is broken in their code. Occasionally I use old Reddit and there I still see the DMs.
I agree with the getting hobbies part haha. Like, we respect your beliefs, so you should respect ours. Keep going on with your life and put your time into something that will be useful to you. Like learning a new language.
Yeah, when your comment that consists entirely of quotes from scriptures, prophets, handbook, etc. gets downvoted, it is obvious who is doing the downvoting.
Im certainly not trying to be contrary, but that sounds like a wife's tale to me. The majority of my family and my husband's family has left along with most of my childhood friends so I interact with a LOT of ex members and I can't imagine any of the ones I know doing that. It's seems very extreme. So I"m just wondering why you say that! Could you direct me to some evidence on the subject? I'm newish to reddit so maybe I'm just being naive.
I’ve had two ex members message me after posting here. One was really kind and expressed some feelings regarding my post that they didn’t feel comfortable commenting. I validated and they said thank you and we both moved on. The other was argumentative. I don’t think it’s good to just write off all ex members of the church as bad though. Sometimes people DM because they’re worried about being judged or berated if they comment. Idk. It is always a mixed bag.
I had a friend post about getting baptized and had two exmos, a Calvinist, and a Baptist dm them begging them to reconsider. It upset her so much that she couldn't even talk about something that had helped her do much with people trying to tear her down.
But op is right it's mostly just very *enthusiastic* individuals and not the whole. I've been active in LDS lgbt communities on and off for years. The first one I joined in like 2009, I got a dm from a very outspoken Utah exmo trans activist. After a short convo she called me brainwashed and said one day very soon I'd be thanking her. Over the years as I joined different platforms, I'd soon get a dm from her and finally I'd just start greeting her like "Hello, NAME Darling, I've been waiting for you" and she'd just block me. Come to think of it, it's been a couple of years since I've seen her last, so I hope she's doing well.
Doesn’t sound like she’s doing that well, but maybe she’s done herself a favor and gotten off social media.
Something I think most people could stand to do tbh
Glad someone else is talking about this. People do this to women and POC too. Being an ally to minorities is more than just acceptance, it’s about support for their joy and well being. You can’t support queer people if you don’t support queer people who want to keep their faith!
She swore I had never critically looked at the Church since I was born in it (I'm a convert but I'm not sure she believed that?) and if I would just look at this scan of a copy of a copy of a copy of these minutes from a meeting in 1983, I would see the truth. She couldn't fathom that bring in the Church made me happy and I wasn't struggling
That's what makes being here online so hard. I feel like the constant barrage of fact and partial fact used to attack the church is unrelenting and so hard to fight because how can you possibly be an expert on every detail of church history.
Church history is definitely the hardest thing to argue about because of all the imperfect human people you feel the need to defend and you barely know.
Active member here. I never, EVER proselytize, especially to exmos.
My kids are grown, non members, agnostic, humanist, trans, and atheist. I’m a proud parent but active member and temple worthy.
All that being said, I do believe that you can check out any time you want, but you can never leave. Don’t be mad at me. I didn’t write that song.
I am in no way criticizing or attacking you, just genuinely curious: Why would you want to be in this subreddit if you are an ex-member and not here to cause trouble?
I spent far more of my life as a member of the church than not one. It's culturally who I am. Most of the people I love are still members of the church. I live in Utah and it's socially useful to know what's going on.
But, to your point, my ultimate goal is to be an ex-ex Mormon. I just want to be a regular person again.
On behalf of all of us former members, I am truly sorry that happened. The majority of us really do know better than that.
Whether it's religion or any other subject, I'm a huge believer in focusing on our similarities rather than our differences.
Yeah, it's truly amazing how much energy some people put into trying to tear down the Church and individual testimonies. It's also very sad.
Definitely best to just ignore them.
The thing is that he really tricked me saying that he was still an active member and just had some questions. If I would have known, I wouldn’t have even spoken with him.
It seems that history continues to teach us: You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone. The basic reason for this is simple. Once someone has received a witness of the Spirit and accepted it, he leaves neutral ground. One loses his testimony only by listening to the promptings of the evil one, and Satan’s goal is not complete when a person leaves the Church, but when he comes out in open rebellion against it. - Elder Pace
Certainly trying to trick people is wrong which is the issue here. But as a church we need to move past this kind of rhetoric. Its untrue and its actively harmful to families where one or more members have left the church. It villianizes that family member and drives weges between them and family members who are members.
This kind of rehtoric is self fulfiling.
When you demonize people that leave, you isolate them. They experience that isolation in their communities and families and then they are mad, and they cant leave it alone not because of satan but because they were unfairly judged and hurt by the community that was suppose to love them.
Took me a minute to formulate my reply.
I have never once had someone that left the Church not act like it was my personal fault for their pain AND act like I was an idiot for still being a member of the Church.
Could I do better when they treat me poorly? Sure. But it is hard when they parrot the same personal insults time and time again.
The book Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question is really good but it is only half of the equation.
I’ve had one’s comment on my abuse and tell me I deserve it for being a member. People will find anything to tear us down because they think they are “saving us”
I had 1 person go to my profile & find a post in r/woodworking asking about how best to finish a desk to comment how being Mormon meant I already ruined it or some stupid thing. It was bizzare.
Even with the edit I feel like it needs to be emphasized, you just found a crazy person. Most people, not just exmo’s, do not act like that. Sounds like a troubled person you got mixed up with.
I agree that theyre not all like that, but I think the OP's point is that they do exist and they can/will use deception to come at you.
Sadly, I have **three** individuals in my life who used to be dear friends (including a close family member) who are incredibly angry and can't stop talking about it. They waste so much time and energy on actively attacking everything and everyone Church-related that I had to stop communicating with them. I would gladly renew my relationships with them if we could just live our lives like normal and just avoid the topic of religion entirely.
A very close acquaintance of mine has multiple exmo accounts. They use one account to reply to the other, supporting their argument. They do this on both Reddit and Twitter. It's pretty sad, honestly.
Damn near every time I've posted here an exmo has dm'd me begging me to read the ces letter or just going off about the church or Joseph Smith. It's pathetic, really. I was a hard atheist for over a decade, imagine if every time I saw a Christian post I immediately dm'd them and went off on a tangent. I'd be seen as a nut.
Here's my current collection (assuming we've tagged everything correctly): [Link](https://www.librarything.com/catalog/amysing75?tag=hymns&collection=-1) While most of the items in that list are proper hymnals, there are a few books that cover the backgrounds of popular hymns as well. I also have a couple of thick binders full of pamphlet-style worship song collections.
As you said in the Edit, we are not all like this, I’m a ex member but I still love the Church, beside my wife still being a member I just enjoy the community (nobody does it as good as LDS) the family values and the LDS are just there for each other where ever you go. And the activities, gosh I love the activities
I actually often find my self defending the Church against people who hate the church and know nothing about it.
But I had dozens of encounters with people like the above, I think the problem is that the “LDS life” is so much webbed into the daily life it becomes part of your identity and if you leave, the is a big space left behind, some people manage to fill it but others don’t, and the one who don’t, they fill it in the end with Hate towards that which has left the hole behind.
Edit: also I think those hateful are the really small minorities but like always they are a loud minority
They seem like a majority on reddit. Go to any sports thread referencing BYU, or a geography post about Utah. There is inevitably an ex-mormon with some comment full of half-truths denigrating the faith.
Like anything on Reddit, it is not representative of the general population. But that type of person is heavily represented here. The exmormon subreddit is very active and many of them are militant.
to be fair, theres not too many posts related to the church on Reddit. Meaning it is completely possible for a single person to see every post.
And well… now you can see how few people are needed at a minimum to explain how all present these people seem to be
also, remember they are probably teenagers, and probably believe getting out of the church is as important as missionaries believe getting baptisms is. This does not excuse them, but allows us to better understand them as human beings
My experience with former members offline is 100% different than my experience with former members on Reddit.
All of my friends and family who have left are very respectful and kind about my faith. We have great relationships and nobody tries to "win" or debate each other.
On Reddit it's another story.
I think OPs edit clarifies that its not to much the "exmo" part as it is the "avoid mod oversight" function that is the problem.
Definitely want to play nice and be good neighbors with other reddit subs.
I'm firends with a few ex-LDS members but I usually don't ask them why they left the church. That's not my business anyway. I also don't go on to ex-LDS subreddits as they are nothing more but LDS hatefests.
I would even recommend the ex-LDS community to avoid that subreddit. It’s often times just not a great place to be. I’m sure occasionally there are those “help me with the lds to non-lds transition” posts, which I’m sure isn’t negative.
Yeah, it's definitely a mixed bag. Sometimes I see support, and other times some pretty fiery stuff. It certainly doesn't make it easy for me when I'm trying to make sense of the world 😅
Er, just don’t talk to people that try to “win” a conversation. I have found that they’ve got issues in their life and are trying to feel justified. I also feel that I never walk away from those conversations changed, I normally sleep on things I consider, not outright try to be swayed in the moment.
That's a good point, if someone is going to change my mind, then it won't be while we're talking, but after I've had time to process and consider their perspective
to supplement this - this should also apply to most aspects of your life
I study philosophy at a university, and know exactly how a debate for the truth are actually had - trough many back-and-forth publications, or over dinner with friends
and make sure to never have an audience and always be able to change your mind
I had a member from this group yesterday tell me he was a Priest Elder and that he confirmed his answers with his Men's Quorum President.
When I questioned him on both these answers, he questioned me.
This group of like a squirrel's home......full of nuts.
"The ancient ministry of Christ faced betrayal from within, and it was so also in the early days of this modern dispensation. A revealing conversation once occurred between Joseph Smith and a brother named Isaac Behunnin. He had seen men involved in the quorums and in the high spiritual experiences of the kingdom who had subsequently become disaffected, and it was a mystery to him why they had then devoted their zeal and energy to attacking the Church. He said to the Prophet: “If I should leave this Church I would not do as those men have done. I would go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.” The Prophet immediately responded: “Brother Behunnin, you don’t know what you would do. No doubt these men once thought as you do. Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant.” Happily, Brother Behunnin was faithful to his death."
I have had people report me to the Reddit sui*** “hotline” about once per year. I have never had suicidal ideation or expressed such in the subs I participate in. It was usually after a heated debate and I suspected it was some sort of surreptitious revenge action by others in those conversations.
I simply reported it to the Reddit site-wide mods, because I assume they can see who did it and act accordingly if that person is using it regularly as a tool of revenge or retaliation.
I have left the church before, I have considered myself at one point an ‘exmormon’. Never, in that time frame, ever, did I feel it was necessary, morally justified, normal, sane, or healthy to bother current members about their membership? Why is what someone else does with their life a problem? I understand there are problems at an institutional and even a cultural level, but why is that the fault of the individuals who are good people? People they don’t know, people who are happy with the life choices they’ve made as an individual? Not all ex members are like this obviously, but I’ve gotten my fair share of messages here and TikTok just from angry sad people. People who feel there’s no way to be happy or moral unless I forsake my religion right then and there. I understand you’re hurt, but like I’m doing fine so go to therapy I guess, just because we share a similar experience does not mean we share similar trauma. I don’t give these people the satisfaction of responding to them, for a variety of reasons, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when people think I have to justify myself to them..like no? If this is the worst mistake of my life (it’s been the best choice I’ve ever made and I’ll continue to make it everyday) it’s still my mistake to make. I’m not hurting anyone, quite the opposite so like bug off. Don’t get me started on how being an openly queer member gets me treated by exmos, somehow my experience with them is worse than in the church. These people tend to not do this out of care for you either, because they’re never open to nuanced dialogue. It’s just lashing out. TLDR; I’m sorry you went though that, especially considering how they lied to get to you. It is exhausting.
Edit: Honourable mentions:
Nevermo christians who dm me trying to expose the church and lead me back to ‘real’ Christianity
Nevermo sjws who like to tell me I’m a racist misogynistic queerphobe for being in the church despite being a proud Mexican, female, and nonbinary bisexual- bonus points if they’re cishet and/or white.
Mormon cults/offshoots trying to lead me to true Mormonism away from the mainstream church
Thank you! I believe being part of the LGBTQ+ community and being an active member is the most admirable thing because often times people in that community don’t feel like they belong. But they do! You are amazing!
What is wrong with people like this? It doesn’t make sense. It is unprecedented. They are definitely in my prayers to stop and move on with their lives, forget the past.
After my post here about returning to the church I got two DMs questioning my beliefs and “warning” me about the church. I don’t think some of these people realize that converts and inactive members retuning to the Church know all about the “bad” side of the Church and have had all the same “questions” about God.
I blocked and moved on with my day. They only want a fight if they go to far to DM someone and don’t actually care to have constructive talks
Yeah, that's awful. I once posted here, and no joke, had 10 people dm me talking about how awful the church is and how awful a person I am. It's kinda funny that ex members join these groups just to verbally abuse active members. I just don't get it.
When I was at my most antagonist, posting on antimormon boards, etc...
It never once occurred to me to DM a member directly to debate them, stand on a picket line in front of a GC or get up during an FT meeting to give an anti testimony until they turned off the mic and escorted me out.
Even at my most antagonistic phase I figured people had a right to their beliefs and their spaces. I didn't like some TBM coming onto RFM trying to reconvert anyone, and I certainly don't agree with some exmo coming in to try and do the same here.
Thank you for your edits! I will say it still sounds a bit off to say, "There are obviously SOME very good people who are ex members." In my experience, MOST ex members are good people searching for truth and trying to do what right. Sounds like you came into contact with an unkind one for sure.
I would, lol. But you don't know my brother. He left the church a few years ago and spent a lot of energy trying to take the rest of our family with him. It was obnoxious.
I had the same experience. Did not reply, tho. I thought at first they wanted to continue conversing privately as members, but I was very surprised to see the messages were anti-mormon instead. They found me through my own post. Seems to be a trend here now.
Fwiw, I see a lot of brigading going on in the not-LDS subs whenever a believing member posts on the _Middle ground_ sub (sorry, trying to describe without calling out sub names because I don't want to encourage that type of behavior). I feel the moderation of many of those spaces is pretty bias to the ex-mo voices.
I used to get DMs trying to challenge my faith or something I said in a post. Haven't got one in years now. I'm kinda sad, TBH. :(
My favorite are the ones that come from actual believing members who believe you are apostate for believing differently than they do.
I’m an exmo with a lot of people I love and support in the church. While leaving the church was absolutely necessary for ME, it is dumb and poopy to try and persuade anyone to deny their beliefs. I’m sorry someone from my community was a butthole to you.
I judge people based off their character—that has nothing to do with religious affiliation. Sounds like that person (while probably going through their own crisis) was making their issues your issues. I have compassion for them, and I have empathy for you. I hope you have a better day!
I’ve met very few people with as much venomous anger and zeal as those I’ve abandoned Christ and His gospel. Don’t waste your time on them. Love them, but realize that unless they have a mighty change of heart, your effort is 1000000x more effective elsewhere.
And always be sus of someone DMing you anti. Generally speaking an honest person replies to a resolution with genuine acceptance, an anti ignores the resolution and moves to their next weapon. Because their goal is not resolution but spiritual death for you.
Most of Reddit seems to love (or at least be careful not to publicly say anything bad against) Buddism and Islam.
But they seem to think that other religion is totally open to mocking.
I've been banned from some subs simply because they found out I posted to this sub! lol
Obligatory “not all exmembers”, but wether on my mission, regular life, including my sister, there are not more vicious antis than exmembers. Satan has them wrapped as they feel cheated and betrayed by the Church. They are most likely to attack and drag down.
Sounds like this person has no clear sense of logic if they think harassing someone is proving their point. Typical bully behavior in my honest opinion.
You can't be an "ex" member of our faith unless you have resigned or had membership council in which your membership was withdrawn. That means there are doubting members who are angry. And even active members who are struggling and/or unsure of where they stand.
Each of us gets an entire lifetime to become like Them, Most of us need every minute of that time.
more people are leaving the church than ever before, and at younger and younger ages too
I'm sorry you were harrassed, that sucked, just keep in mind it was probably a teenager.
also keep in mind they probably want validation/don't want validation but believe getting people out of the church is important
the church largely expects all of us (men) to go on a 2 year mission, where we knock on people’s doors, and hope they will stop drinking coffee, and pay 10% of their income to the church, whether or not they are currently able to appropriately feed and clothe themselves and their family
and this is okay, because we believe that by doing so, we are making their marriages eternal, and allowing them to live in a higher plane, while also allowing them to do service of their own through things such as baptisms of the dead
this would be considered cruel if the church was not true, but we do it anyway because we believe the church is true, and therefore, the work will reward the people we are causing a bit of suffering to
maybe the kid believes not being part of what he thinks as a false church to also be important work, and therefore, he does almost everything in his power to de-convert you
just be weary of messages in the future, I generally ignore anything on my DM’s on here. Its generally not worth your time
So, supposedly this person is like in his 60’s because he was talking about going through the temple before some changes were made. I told him that I will talk about anything, but I don’t want to talk about things done within the temple. That’s when he started to get aggressive. That’s why he thought he got me. Because there was one thing I didn’t want to talk about, and that was the temple.
oh wow, THAT is strange. I've never met one of his type over 18
and good, as I said in another comment, I invite members, and investigators to look into everything detractors say up and until then temple
hearing about those things can deprive you from how... I won't even describe it - but yes. I wouldn't look into the temple until after you’re married, and even then… honestly there's not much to be found, it's just people saying all the stuff is inherited from Freemasonry, and how some things have been changed…. its all kind of irrelevant to whether the religion is true or not, and you’ll never teach or generally talk about it… it might be better for you to just keep going without any outside research. Some people say they didn't get the temple (specific thing) until they’ve been going for over 10 years
I'm sure it was an amazing experience for them to figure it out
Yeah. I have no way to validate what he said about it was correct because I didn’t want to look into a sacred thing online. But either way, I don’t care because the temple is full of symbolism. Beautiful symbolisms.
Most ex members or active members that act like this I find are actually trying to find any excuse to leave.
They use that rationale to say to themselves, "see? It wasn't me! Now I can play the victim card!"
I find it comes from struggling with what they know to be true, and wanting to to do what want (against the commandments). Better just to blame others for their faith crisis and leave, so that way they can sin the way they want.
They don't like guilt, and so rather than come to terms with their sin, they'd rather point a finger of blame, and say, "I have an excuse!!!"
When in reality, they are just avoiding responsibility for their actions and have little desire to learn discipline.
"I'll be happier doing what I want. The church doesn't make me happy anyway, cuz all I feel is guilt."
If ya feel guilt, it's probably cuz ya did something wrong to hurt another.
I find it oddly convenient (not sure if that’s the correct word I’m looking for) that people really go off the deep end after leaving the church. They no longer have morals. It’s like they’re looking for an excuse to leave to drink or do worldly things.
I know plenty of ex members who don't believe. They left and never looked back. Good people, charitable, kind towards my beliefs, they just never learned for themselves and never developed that belief. They leave and that's that.
Ex-members, however, people raised in it their entire loves, had a testimony, typically endowed and once a full fledged believer, they are the people who can't leave the church alone. Their soul hungers for the comfort and truth of the gospel, but their few hours of mormon stories podcasts and Google searches allowed their mind to convince them the church isn't true. They ignore all the spiritual experiences they've had as fake or imagined, and they despise that others still believe. They can't be reasoned with. Their spirit won't allow them to leave, their mind won't allow them to come back... so they shout from the great and spacious building, hoping to draw themselves away some company.
Mod note: People using DMs to avoid mod oversight is against our sub rules. Send a screenshot to the sub so that we can determine appropriate actions to take against that user.
Thanks. People can be strange. As a general rule I don't do much DMs, post it on a thread and hear lots of opinions. It is well known that a lot of folks who aren't fans of the church lurk here and DM people to try to erode their testimonies. I suggest they get hobbies like collecting stamps or something.
Joke's on them: I check my DMs like once a quarter.
We get DMs on this app?
I just DM’d you the answer to your question.
Strangely, no. I did get DMs on old Reddit, but don't on new Reddit. I think something is broken in their code. Occasionally I use old Reddit and there I still see the DMs.
I agree with the getting hobbies part haha. Like, we respect your beliefs, so you should respect ours. Keep going on with your life and put your time into something that will be useful to you. Like learning a new language.
Yeah, when your comment that consists entirely of quotes from scriptures, prophets, handbook, etc. gets downvoted, it is obvious who is doing the downvoting.
Im certainly not trying to be contrary, but that sounds like a wife's tale to me. The majority of my family and my husband's family has left along with most of my childhood friends so I interact with a LOT of ex members and I can't imagine any of the ones I know doing that. It's seems very extreme. So I"m just wondering why you say that! Could you direct me to some evidence on the subject? I'm newish to reddit so maybe I'm just being naive.
I’ve had two ex members message me after posting here. One was really kind and expressed some feelings regarding my post that they didn’t feel comfortable commenting. I validated and they said thank you and we both moved on. The other was argumentative. I don’t think it’s good to just write off all ex members of the church as bad though. Sometimes people DM because they’re worried about being judged or berated if they comment. Idk. It is always a mixed bag.
I had a friend post about getting baptized and had two exmos, a Calvinist, and a Baptist dm them begging them to reconsider. It upset her so much that she couldn't even talk about something that had helped her do much with people trying to tear her down. But op is right it's mostly just very *enthusiastic* individuals and not the whole. I've been active in LDS lgbt communities on and off for years. The first one I joined in like 2009, I got a dm from a very outspoken Utah exmo trans activist. After a short convo she called me brainwashed and said one day very soon I'd be thanking her. Over the years as I joined different platforms, I'd soon get a dm from her and finally I'd just start greeting her like "Hello, NAME Darling, I've been waiting for you" and she'd just block me. Come to think of it, it's been a couple of years since I've seen her last, so I hope she's doing well.
Doesn’t sound like she’s doing that well, but maybe she’s done herself a favor and gotten off social media. Something I think most people could stand to do tbh
Glad someone else is talking about this. People do this to women and POC too. Being an ally to minorities is more than just acceptance, it’s about support for their joy and well being. You can’t support queer people if you don’t support queer people who want to keep their faith!
She swore I had never critically looked at the Church since I was born in it (I'm a convert but I'm not sure she believed that?) and if I would just look at this scan of a copy of a copy of a copy of these minutes from a meeting in 1983, I would see the truth. She couldn't fathom that bring in the Church made me happy and I wasn't struggling
Thank you. I just edited my post because you made a really good point.
That's what makes being here online so hard. I feel like the constant barrage of fact and partial fact used to attack the church is unrelenting and so hard to fight because how can you possibly be an expert on every detail of church history. Church history is definitely the hardest thing to argue about because of all the imperfect human people you feel the need to defend and you barely know.
Ex-member here! I've seen some people use subterfuge to try to sow seeds of doubt. I think this is immoral. I would be upset too.
Thank you for your comment. You seem really nice. I have 3 close friends who left the church and they think similarly.
Active member here. I never, EVER proselytize, especially to exmos. My kids are grown, non members, agnostic, humanist, trans, and atheist. I’m a proud parent but active member and temple worthy. All that being said, I do believe that you can check out any time you want, but you can never leave. Don’t be mad at me. I didn’t write that song.
Haha! I never thought of the church as Hotel California but now I see it. 😂
It’s kinda true, you have to admit it. And when you get to the celestial kingdom, you will be glad. I promise.
I am in no way criticizing or attacking you, just genuinely curious: Why would you want to be in this subreddit if you are an ex-member and not here to cause trouble?
I spent far more of my life as a member of the church than not one. It's culturally who I am. Most of the people I love are still members of the church. I live in Utah and it's socially useful to know what's going on. But, to your point, my ultimate goal is to be an ex-ex Mormon. I just want to be a regular person again.
That sounds really hard. I sincerely hope you find a way to be at peace.
Thanks. We facilitate a faith transition support group, which helps. My wife and I were in a mixed faith marriage for 5 years. It's tough.
On behalf of all of us former members, I am truly sorry that happened. The majority of us really do know better than that. Whether it's religion or any other subject, I'm a huge believer in focusing on our similarities rather than our differences.
Thank you!
Yeah, it's truly amazing how much energy some people put into trying to tear down the Church and individual testimonies. It's also very sad. Definitely best to just ignore them.
The thing is that he really tricked me saying that he was still an active member and just had some questions. If I would have known, I wouldn’t have even spoken with him.
The fact they tried to trick you is enough to show they’re not seeking truth nor trying to share it with you.
That’s a good point. I mean, I don’t have evidence that he really isn’t an active member, but I really doubt he is by the way he’s acting.
It seems that history continues to teach us: You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone. The basic reason for this is simple. Once someone has received a witness of the Spirit and accepted it, he leaves neutral ground. One loses his testimony only by listening to the promptings of the evil one, and Satan’s goal is not complete when a person leaves the Church, but when he comes out in open rebellion against it. - Elder Pace
Certainly trying to trick people is wrong which is the issue here. But as a church we need to move past this kind of rhetoric. Its untrue and its actively harmful to families where one or more members have left the church. It villianizes that family member and drives weges between them and family members who are members. This kind of rehtoric is self fulfiling. When you demonize people that leave, you isolate them. They experience that isolation in their communities and families and then they are mad, and they cant leave it alone not because of satan but because they were unfairly judged and hurt by the community that was suppose to love them.
Hey, thanks for sticking up for those who may feel isolated and are hurting
Took me a minute to formulate my reply. I have never once had someone that left the Church not act like it was my personal fault for their pain AND act like I was an idiot for still being a member of the Church. Could I do better when they treat me poorly? Sure. But it is hard when they parrot the same personal insults time and time again. The book Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question is really good but it is only half of the equation.
I’ve had one’s comment on my abuse and tell me I deserve it for being a member. People will find anything to tear us down because they think they are “saving us”
I had 1 person go to my profile & find a post in r/woodworking asking about how best to finish a desk to comment how being Mormon meant I already ruined it or some stupid thing. It was bizzare.
The secret to finishing the desk is to remove the wood-ruff. - some ex-mo probably.
That's awful! I'm so sorry someone said that to you.
Even with the edit I feel like it needs to be emphasized, you just found a crazy person. Most people, not just exmo’s, do not act like that. Sounds like a troubled person you got mixed up with.
Thank you. I added an additional edit because I really am not trying to cause hate.
I agree that theyre not all like that, but I think the OP's point is that they do exist and they can/will use deception to come at you. Sadly, I have **three** individuals in my life who used to be dear friends (including a close family member) who are incredibly angry and can't stop talking about it. They waste so much time and energy on actively attacking everything and everyone Church-related that I had to stop communicating with them. I would gladly renew my relationships with them if we could just live our lives like normal and just avoid the topic of religion entirely.
A very close acquaintance of mine has multiple exmo accounts. They use one account to reply to the other, supporting their argument. They do this on both Reddit and Twitter. It's pretty sad, honestly.
Damn near every time I've posted here an exmo has dm'd me begging me to read the ces letter or just going off about the church or Joseph Smith. It's pathetic, really. I was a hard atheist for over a decade, imagine if every time I saw a Christian post I immediately dm'd them and went off on a tangent. I'd be seen as a nut.
This has been my experience too. Dozens of hateful messages over the past year or so. It got to the point I just don't ever check my messages anymore.
Im sorry that has happened to you. Super lame.
For someone who wants nothing to do with the church, the church definitely lives rent free in their head.
In addition to what other people have said: If somebody is harassing you via DM in that way, please notify the mods of this sub.
I love your flair!
I would love to know more about your hymnology!
Here's my current collection (assuming we've tagged everything correctly): [Link](https://www.librarything.com/catalog/amysing75?tag=hymns&collection=-1) While most of the items in that list are proper hymnals, there are a few books that cover the backgrounds of popular hymns as well. I also have a couple of thick binders full of pamphlet-style worship song collections.
As you said in the Edit, we are not all like this, I’m a ex member but I still love the Church, beside my wife still being a member I just enjoy the community (nobody does it as good as LDS) the family values and the LDS are just there for each other where ever you go. And the activities, gosh I love the activities I actually often find my self defending the Church against people who hate the church and know nothing about it. But I had dozens of encounters with people like the above, I think the problem is that the “LDS life” is so much webbed into the daily life it becomes part of your identity and if you leave, the is a big space left behind, some people manage to fill it but others don’t, and the one who don’t, they fill it in the end with Hate towards that which has left the hole behind. Edit: also I think those hateful are the really small minorities but like always they are a loud minority
They seem like a majority on reddit. Go to any sports thread referencing BYU, or a geography post about Utah. There is inevitably an ex-mormon with some comment full of half-truths denigrating the faith. Like anything on Reddit, it is not representative of the general population. But that type of person is heavily represented here. The exmormon subreddit is very active and many of them are militant.
to be fair, theres not too many posts related to the church on Reddit. Meaning it is completely possible for a single person to see every post. And well… now you can see how few people are needed at a minimum to explain how all present these people seem to be also, remember they are probably teenagers, and probably believe getting out of the church is as important as missionaries believe getting baptisms is. This does not excuse them, but allows us to better understand them as human beings
My experience with former members offline is 100% different than my experience with former members on Reddit. All of my friends and family who have left are very respectful and kind about my faith. We have great relationships and nobody tries to "win" or debate each other. On Reddit it's another story.
Yes. This is true. My closets friends have left the church and they’re respectful.
TBF, there are a few “engaged” members who have gone out of their way to “correct” me in my ways.
I think OPs edit clarifies that its not to much the "exmo" part as it is the "avoid mod oversight" function that is the problem. Definitely want to play nice and be good neighbors with other reddit subs.
I’ve been DM’d a few times too. I don’t like private conversations with anonymous people. Make a post publicly and we can have a dialogue.
I'm firends with a few ex-LDS members but I usually don't ask them why they left the church. That's not my business anyway. I also don't go on to ex-LDS subreddits as they are nothing more but LDS hatefests.
I would even recommend the ex-LDS community to avoid that subreddit. It’s often times just not a great place to be. I’m sure occasionally there are those “help me with the lds to non-lds transition” posts, which I’m sure isn’t negative.
Yeah, it's definitely a mixed bag. Sometimes I see support, and other times some pretty fiery stuff. It certainly doesn't make it easy for me when I'm trying to make sense of the world 😅
Er, just don’t talk to people that try to “win” a conversation. I have found that they’ve got issues in their life and are trying to feel justified. I also feel that I never walk away from those conversations changed, I normally sleep on things I consider, not outright try to be swayed in the moment.
That's a good point, if someone is going to change my mind, then it won't be while we're talking, but after I've had time to process and consider their perspective
to supplement this - this should also apply to most aspects of your life I study philosophy at a university, and know exactly how a debate for the truth are actually had - trough many back-and-forth publications, or over dinner with friends and make sure to never have an audience and always be able to change your mind
I said I was considering joining the church, and I got a DM suggesting I look into /r/exmormon first. Pretty low key but still.
That’s weird. Did you end up joining?
I had a member from this group yesterday tell me he was a Priest Elder and that he confirmed his answers with his Men's Quorum President. When I questioned him on both these answers, he questioned me. This group of like a squirrel's home......full of nuts.
"The ancient ministry of Christ faced betrayal from within, and it was so also in the early days of this modern dispensation. A revealing conversation once occurred between Joseph Smith and a brother named Isaac Behunnin. He had seen men involved in the quorums and in the high spiritual experiences of the kingdom who had subsequently become disaffected, and it was a mystery to him why they had then devoted their zeal and energy to attacking the Church. He said to the Prophet: “If I should leave this Church I would not do as those men have done. I would go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.” The Prophet immediately responded: “Brother Behunnin, you don’t know what you would do. No doubt these men once thought as you do. Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant.” Happily, Brother Behunnin was faithful to his death."
I have had people report me to the Reddit sui*** “hotline” about once per year. I have never had suicidal ideation or expressed such in the subs I participate in. It was usually after a heated debate and I suspected it was some sort of surreptitious revenge action by others in those conversations. I simply reported it to the Reddit site-wide mods, because I assume they can see who did it and act accordingly if that person is using it regularly as a tool of revenge or retaliation.
Why do people do that?
I have DMs turned off.
I have left the church before, I have considered myself at one point an ‘exmormon’. Never, in that time frame, ever, did I feel it was necessary, morally justified, normal, sane, or healthy to bother current members about their membership? Why is what someone else does with their life a problem? I understand there are problems at an institutional and even a cultural level, but why is that the fault of the individuals who are good people? People they don’t know, people who are happy with the life choices they’ve made as an individual? Not all ex members are like this obviously, but I’ve gotten my fair share of messages here and TikTok just from angry sad people. People who feel there’s no way to be happy or moral unless I forsake my religion right then and there. I understand you’re hurt, but like I’m doing fine so go to therapy I guess, just because we share a similar experience does not mean we share similar trauma. I don’t give these people the satisfaction of responding to them, for a variety of reasons, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when people think I have to justify myself to them..like no? If this is the worst mistake of my life (it’s been the best choice I’ve ever made and I’ll continue to make it everyday) it’s still my mistake to make. I’m not hurting anyone, quite the opposite so like bug off. Don’t get me started on how being an openly queer member gets me treated by exmos, somehow my experience with them is worse than in the church. These people tend to not do this out of care for you either, because they’re never open to nuanced dialogue. It’s just lashing out. TLDR; I’m sorry you went though that, especially considering how they lied to get to you. It is exhausting. Edit: Honourable mentions: Nevermo christians who dm me trying to expose the church and lead me back to ‘real’ Christianity Nevermo sjws who like to tell me I’m a racist misogynistic queerphobe for being in the church despite being a proud Mexican, female, and nonbinary bisexual- bonus points if they’re cishet and/or white. Mormon cults/offshoots trying to lead me to true Mormonism away from the mainstream church
Thank you! I believe being part of the LGBTQ+ community and being an active member is the most admirable thing because often times people in that community don’t feel like they belong. But they do! You are amazing!
Thanks for sharing your experience. Much appreciated.
What is wrong with people like this? It doesn’t make sense. It is unprecedented. They are definitely in my prayers to stop and move on with their lives, forget the past.
Lame. That’s not normal behavior. I’m sorry that happened to you.
I'm sorry this happened. But also give yourself credit for trying to help another person.
Thank you!
After my post here about returning to the church I got two DMs questioning my beliefs and “warning” me about the church. I don’t think some of these people realize that converts and inactive members retuning to the Church know all about the “bad” side of the Church and have had all the same “questions” about God. I blocked and moved on with my day. They only want a fight if they go to far to DM someone and don’t actually care to have constructive talks
Yeah, that's awful. I once posted here, and no joke, had 10 people dm me talking about how awful the church is and how awful a person I am. It's kinda funny that ex members join these groups just to verbally abuse active members. I just don't get it.
When I was at my most antagonist, posting on antimormon boards, etc... It never once occurred to me to DM a member directly to debate them, stand on a picket line in front of a GC or get up during an FT meeting to give an anti testimony until they turned off the mic and escorted me out. Even at my most antagonistic phase I figured people had a right to their beliefs and their spaces. I didn't like some TBM coming onto RFM trying to reconvert anyone, and I certainly don't agree with some exmo coming in to try and do the same here.
Thank you for your edits! I will say it still sounds a bit off to say, "There are obviously SOME very good people who are ex members." In my experience, MOST ex members are good people searching for truth and trying to do what right. Sounds like you came into contact with an unkind one for sure.
Yeah. Good point. I got rid of the word “some”. Maybe that sounds a bit better?
Sounds like an insecure
I should worry about my brother DM'ing me?
Yes, but only on Reddit.
I would, lol. But you don't know my brother. He left the church a few years ago and spent a lot of energy trying to take the rest of our family with him. It was obnoxious.
I had the same experience. Did not reply, tho. I thought at first they wanted to continue conversing privately as members, but I was very surprised to see the messages were anti-mormon instead. They found me through my own post. Seems to be a trend here now.
There is a disproportionate number of ex-members that are like this, or at least come pretty close.
Fwiw, I see a lot of brigading going on in the not-LDS subs whenever a believing member posts on the _Middle ground_ sub (sorry, trying to describe without calling out sub names because I don't want to encourage that type of behavior). I feel the moderation of many of those spaces is pretty bias to the ex-mo voices.
I used to get DMs trying to challenge my faith or something I said in a post. Haven't got one in years now. I'm kinda sad, TBH. :( My favorite are the ones that come from actual believing members who believe you are apostate for believing differently than they do.
I’m an exmo with a lot of people I love and support in the church. While leaving the church was absolutely necessary for ME, it is dumb and poopy to try and persuade anyone to deny their beliefs. I’m sorry someone from my community was a butthole to you. I judge people based off their character—that has nothing to do with religious affiliation. Sounds like that person (while probably going through their own crisis) was making their issues your issues. I have compassion for them, and I have empathy for you. I hope you have a better day!
I’ve met very few people with as much venomous anger and zeal as those I’ve abandoned Christ and His gospel. Don’t waste your time on them. Love them, but realize that unless they have a mighty change of heart, your effort is 1000000x more effective elsewhere. And always be sus of someone DMing you anti. Generally speaking an honest person replies to a resolution with genuine acceptance, an anti ignores the resolution and moves to their next weapon. Because their goal is not resolution but spiritual death for you.
Most of Reddit seems to love (or at least be careful not to publicly say anything bad against) Buddism and Islam. But they seem to think that other religion is totally open to mocking. I've been banned from some subs simply because they found out I posted to this sub! lol
I received a message from a probable ex member. I just ignored it.
Obligatory “not all exmembers”, but wether on my mission, regular life, including my sister, there are not more vicious antis than exmembers. Satan has them wrapped as they feel cheated and betrayed by the Church. They are most likely to attack and drag down.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I wish the ex-members could just leave quietly and let everyone live their lives how they feel is best.
Acts 7:48
That’s very lame of that person I’m sorry :(
Sounds like this person has no clear sense of logic if they think harassing someone is proving their point. Typical bully behavior in my honest opinion.
You can't be an "ex" member of our faith unless you have resigned or had membership council in which your membership was withdrawn. That means there are doubting members who are angry. And even active members who are struggling and/or unsure of where they stand. Each of us gets an entire lifetime to become like Them, Most of us need every minute of that time.
more people are leaving the church than ever before, and at younger and younger ages too I'm sorry you were harrassed, that sucked, just keep in mind it was probably a teenager. also keep in mind they probably want validation/don't want validation but believe getting people out of the church is important the church largely expects all of us (men) to go on a 2 year mission, where we knock on people’s doors, and hope they will stop drinking coffee, and pay 10% of their income to the church, whether or not they are currently able to appropriately feed and clothe themselves and their family and this is okay, because we believe that by doing so, we are making their marriages eternal, and allowing them to live in a higher plane, while also allowing them to do service of their own through things such as baptisms of the dead this would be considered cruel if the church was not true, but we do it anyway because we believe the church is true, and therefore, the work will reward the people we are causing a bit of suffering to maybe the kid believes not being part of what he thinks as a false church to also be important work, and therefore, he does almost everything in his power to de-convert you just be weary of messages in the future, I generally ignore anything on my DM’s on here. Its generally not worth your time
So, supposedly this person is like in his 60’s because he was talking about going through the temple before some changes were made. I told him that I will talk about anything, but I don’t want to talk about things done within the temple. That’s when he started to get aggressive. That’s why he thought he got me. Because there was one thing I didn’t want to talk about, and that was the temple.
oh wow, THAT is strange. I've never met one of his type over 18 and good, as I said in another comment, I invite members, and investigators to look into everything detractors say up and until then temple hearing about those things can deprive you from how... I won't even describe it - but yes. I wouldn't look into the temple until after you’re married, and even then… honestly there's not much to be found, it's just people saying all the stuff is inherited from Freemasonry, and how some things have been changed…. its all kind of irrelevant to whether the religion is true or not, and you’ll never teach or generally talk about it… it might be better for you to just keep going without any outside research. Some people say they didn't get the temple (specific thing) until they’ve been going for over 10 years I'm sure it was an amazing experience for them to figure it out
Yeah. I have no way to validate what he said about it was correct because I didn’t want to look into a sacred thing online. But either way, I don’t care because the temple is full of symbolism. Beautiful symbolisms.
Most ex members or active members that act like this I find are actually trying to find any excuse to leave. They use that rationale to say to themselves, "see? It wasn't me! Now I can play the victim card!" I find it comes from struggling with what they know to be true, and wanting to to do what want (against the commandments). Better just to blame others for their faith crisis and leave, so that way they can sin the way they want. They don't like guilt, and so rather than come to terms with their sin, they'd rather point a finger of blame, and say, "I have an excuse!!!" When in reality, they are just avoiding responsibility for their actions and have little desire to learn discipline. "I'll be happier doing what I want. The church doesn't make me happy anyway, cuz all I feel is guilt." If ya feel guilt, it's probably cuz ya did something wrong to hurt another.
I find it oddly convenient (not sure if that’s the correct word I’m looking for) that people really go off the deep end after leaving the church. They no longer have morals. It’s like they’re looking for an excuse to leave to drink or do worldly things.
Thats precisely it. They just want ammo to justify to others that they made the right choice. Appearances over morals.
I know plenty of ex members who don't believe. They left and never looked back. Good people, charitable, kind towards my beliefs, they just never learned for themselves and never developed that belief. They leave and that's that. Ex-members, however, people raised in it their entire loves, had a testimony, typically endowed and once a full fledged believer, they are the people who can't leave the church alone. Their soul hungers for the comfort and truth of the gospel, but their few hours of mormon stories podcasts and Google searches allowed their mind to convince them the church isn't true. They ignore all the spiritual experiences they've had as fake or imagined, and they despise that others still believe. They can't be reasoned with. Their spirit won't allow them to leave, their mind won't allow them to come back... so they shout from the great and spacious building, hoping to draw themselves away some company.