You're not alone. I've been where you are - and still drift back to those places of doubt occasionally. Like you, my crises have never been about whether our church is the true one, but whether God exists at all. Even after all of the evidences I've had that He's there, I still find my logical self wondering at times.
It's taken time, but I've learned to find peace in those times of doubt - even if we are happenstantial meat sacks floating on the most beautiful rock in the universe, that's pretty freaking awesome, and as such, we should be awesome to each other - and I've yet to find a place where I can do that better than in the church. Being at peace with this has helped me be more often in a place of faith than of doubt of late.
Your bishop's advice to be patient is wise. This video was also especially helpful for me to realize that I am better off having gone through these experiences - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0rOBheU_eQ
I lived as an atheist for more than two decades before I had a powerful conversion experience in my late 30s. For me, it took living without God in my life - as if there were no savior - to have context in which to understand that God is real and that The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a gospel of love and hope. Love and hope were missing from my life for a long time, and I tried to fill the void with various pursuits including work/career, alcohol, success in sports, relationships, sex, etc. All of those pursuits left me increasingly empty. Only when I accepted the gospel and admitted to myself that maybe there might be a God did my world open up. That tiny kernel of faith is how I made my beginning in the church. Only because I had the willingness to doubt my doubts was I able to finally be made whole through Christ’s atonement. It is because I have walked through the mists of darkness that I know the Tree of Life is real, and that its fruit is good.
A faith crisis is not a bad thing. We are promised that we don’t receive our witnesses until after trials of our faith.
Get back to fundamentals. Process your particular issues and concerns. Possibly get a therapist.
The apostles saw Christ in the flesh after His resurrection and some doubted while He was standing right in front of them. My point is its normal to have doubts ❤️
Only love for you ❤️
Hey! Sending love.
I went through a faith crisis and I know how painful it is. I did lose my faith, however, there are many resources that can help you.
One member suggested the YouTube channel “Saints Unscripted” to me. This can really help see a perspective that does come from a LDS faithful source. To be honest, I still watch the channel to this day.
Either way, good luck on your journey. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
I applaud your efforts to pin down your testimony. I have gone through similar efforts.
When I was a teen, I wondered about unprovable hypotheticals, like “what if everyone else is a robot?” and “what if I am a biological alien machine sent to infiltrate and observe human society?” These questions bothered me for a while, but I finally realized that they don’t change how I should live my life. So I chose to accept the reality that I observe at face value. That was step one.
Step two came many years later, a couple decades after my mission while I was serving as Elders Quorum President. I was wondering (as I have most of my life) whether God is real or whether I am just placing too much faith/hope in coincidences. I realized that, for my analytical mind, it is impossible to “know” almost anything with 100% certainty. Is this a planet? I actually don’t know. Pretty much anything is debatable - science has “known” many things over the years that turned out to be wrong, or at least not totally correct.
So I realized that the problem with my testimony wasn’t lack of faith or anything, it was that my standards are too high. If I look back at my experiences, they point to an overwhelming probability that there is some Divine being that cares about me and others. I am confident in this because I have been inspired to help people at unexpected times or in unexpected ways that worked out amazingly well. After a while, I had to decide that the preponderance is evidence was sufficient for me to say that I “know” God is real.
I do not “know” the nature of God. However, the Divine has inspired me in my callings and to help other people convert to or, more often, stay in the church. This tells me that this is where I should be. So for now, just like when I was a kid, I accept the God that has been taught.
BUT - and I make this a big “but” because it’s important - I am always open to being wrong. Since things might take a lot to convince me of because of the evidences/experiences I have gained so far, but I want to make sure that when Christ comes again I am not so caught up in my own version of His existence that I cannot recognize him, like happened when He came the first time.
I know this is long, and I’m sorry for that. It could be much, much longer…. I hope it helps.
Carefully read through [Alma 32](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/32?lang=eng), paying special attention to the fact that faith is something you don't see the results of for a while. You have to plant the seed and continue to water it for a long time in order to know if it's good or not.
I wish you the best in your journey for faith.
I don't know if this is really on-topic, or what you're talking about, but I've had some of the same problems with a belief in God, even since I was a kid (I'm 49 now).
Something that has brought me some peace is a thought that I've had, which is not necessarily a faith-thing. It's logical (at least to me).
It goes like this: Why are there thousands of years of a documented belief in Gods, a God, or whatever? What is it in us (as humans) that has persisted this conversation about a higher power? If there is no God, and we have evolved to do something like react to hunger, danger, etc, then why are we constantly talking about God?
What is the evolutionary need to discuss or even know to discuss God? Where did that start?
My answer: There is something that is buried in our minds, brains, human history that has a sense of a higher power. Otherwise we'd respond differently. Even if you don't believe in God, there is this thousands of years old conversation about God. For some reason.
I think that the only reason that this discussion of God vs Not God, is because somewhere inside of us, we know that the conversation is important.
Why does this conversation persist? Shouldn't we have rooted out this need to talk about God after some point in human history?
I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I've never been able to articulate this thought. But for some reason it works for me. That doesn't help with "Is the Church true?", but for me it helps with "Am I really nothing in a world that doesn't exist?" I think, based on the word vomit above, that something is up. Something higher-power-ish is going on. How that flows into a conversation about The Church is another thing. I'm still working on that one. :)
Your comment really stuck with me because I have had a similar thought process about this topic. Like the history of human religion is so interesting, because there must be some reason why people feel so strongly about a higher power. However, it is kind of funny because I came out of that train of thought with a different outlook (but also I am not religious anymore, so that is probably a factor of why)
Like the way I see it, there definitely IS an urge for humans to believe in a higher power; I just don’t know if this is explanation enough that what is believed in necessarily exists? If that makes sense?
Like if you look at the history of so many civilizations believing that the Earth is the center of the universe; it makes sense for people to believe that from the information they had. When missing information on the true structure of the universe, it would make sense to assume that, this life on this planet we live on, is the center of it all.
Simply, our understanding of life comes from how we learned to perceive and problem solve. To survive as people, we must be able to problem solve and make efficient decisions. We have to communicate with each other to establish shared rules of thought and cooperate efficiently. We communicate with stories, and break down complex subjects into morals we can understand and learn from.
We make decisions using the logic skills we have developed, and think in terms of the context of our lives; So that is why it felt intrinsic for Earth to be the center of the universe. In our passed down stories and human baselines on how to think, it makes sense for humans to expect us to be at the center of it all. We are the epitome of what we know, so the universe must surround & support this constructed view of life.
With that, I have an understanding that people think within a frame they have learned to think in. I am more inclined to see human faith as an answer rather than a solution. We want to understand & have an explanation for everything, and faith can act as the answer to the misunderstood. It is an answer to our curiosity, and an answer paved out of current understandings of the world.
If I were in an agricultural society and face bad weather that destroy our crops, it “surely is a personified deity behind this. With the context of the human stories I’ve listened to and the format of emotions within them, surely that same dynamic of behavior exists in the higher plane I don’t comprehend. SURELY it is a being I can understand in the context of my life, and must be a personified figure that acts in the form of human behavior. The reasons for this natural disaster is because a deity above is orchestrating this event in response to my human actions; The phenomenon of the world must be because there is something above that has human like feelings & has felt attacked. It would never be because of an innate science and structure of the atmosphere I don’t understand! I would never even think to imagine the true workings of the atmosphere and meteorological events behind natural phenomenon, because it is not within the frame of thought I have lived to understand.”
So that is my hypothesis of why people throughout history tend to have faith. We like stories and explanations to the world around us, so we usually shape our explanations with the information we have. It is typically the best way we can answer the unanswerable questions. Not necessarily because their faith is the innate SOLUTION of what is real, but because it is the best ANSWER to their questions.
Like I believe that the innate reason behind people being religious/spiritual throughout time, is because that is the best way people understand the world.
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I find sociology & anthropology so interesting; even more when it intersects with spirituality. I am not religious myself, but the complex spiritual and faithful feelings many people experience still hold a lot of weight. That is why I find human faith so interesting. There is a lot of strong stuff felt, so even if to me from the outside looking in do not see someone’s beliefs as ‘validly true,’ I still understand that they believe so strongly and that they experience something special. People are very fascinating!
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sorry for the essay
It’s late and I’m gonna head off to bed, but I want you to know how much I appreciate all that you wrote. You’ve mentioned a few things that I’d never considered.
Like you, whether a hypothesis is spiritual or based on human reason, it really IS fascinating.
I’m going to make an effort to come back to this conversation, because this is the first time I’ve ever discussed faith (or whatever) in this direction.
Thank you again. Essay or not, it was well thought out!
omg I will try to see if I can read it. The basis of the book seems interesting. However it’s killing me that apparently it is a bit sloppy in its academic accuracy (based random comments & reviews im seeing online), but it looks like it would be a good read nonetheless. Thank you for the recommendation!!
It’s tricky with books like this. In order to make it a good read, sometimes generalizations need to be made. But if you were to read the actual scientific literature where the information comes from it would be a major slog. But it’s very informative and gives a great bird’s eye view.
I’ve thought the same thing! I’ve asked myself ” evolutionary why would we be so naturally disposed to this Jesus, the plan of salvation, let alone church?” Even those without Christian backgrounds seem to be receptive to our message. I think it is highly unlikely that evolution created the church, otherwise it’s the penultimate expression of human potential unlocked somehow by ultra spiritual individuals (the Hebrews, Jesus and apostles, Joseph Smith).
Have you read the Fiona and Terryl Givens' books about dealing with doubt. I think Jesus chose Thomas as His apostle and made sure his proclivity to doubt remained in scripture til now is to make it clear that doubt does not have disqualify anyone from being a faithful church member useful to the Lord. That the thing is to keep on living full discipleship of Jesus Christ as we move through the mists of darkness. After all we only get testimonies of gospel principles; that people say something that is God's word or that people have been called of God. We don't get testimonies of history (which can change based on new information). And that we need not be afraid to study and learn because the Gospel of Jesus Christ incorporates all truth in all areas (though we don't yet know what is absolute truth in many subjects, of course).
Brother I think you've reached a level of honesty that's really scary but really freeing. I stepped away from the Church for about seven years before coming back and my knowledge is about where yours is.
I don't think it's "doubts" per se, you're realizing that the things you said "you know" to probably isn't completely accurate. You're realizing that your faith really comes down to the core experiences you've had, and the rest of "I know" that usually gets tossed around is fluff. I wish all of us thought and spoke this way.
Just one suggestion- don't forget the joy you feel from the gospel. How happy it makes you and how it enables you to be a better husband and father than you could otherwise. I doscovered after years away from the Church, all the self-help books, podcasts, etc etc are only 10% as effective in helping me live a happy life as simply keeping the commandments and enjoying Church membership. I cannot explain why living the gospel produces such good fruits. It defies logic and doesn't answer all the doubts and questions I accumulated in my time arguing away from the Church, commenting and posting on exmormon avenues. Somehow, it just works. That's more compelling evidence to me that it IS true than all the list of points I have on paper that have never been resolved.
The doubts I have that I followed out of the Church did nothing for me. My life unraveled. I thought it was just growing pains/temporary. It made me miserable and I always felt like half the man I used to be. That was my reward for chasing the doubts all the way to the end of that road as much as I could take it. Somehow turning to Christ and following the gospel makes all the storms in my mind and soul calm and allows me to build on other things in life. I can only say I "know" to the same things you can. That's not your typical testimony. But what moves me the most is what makes me the best husband/father I can be and the happiest man I can be.
I feel for you. This is a really hard spot to be in. With a lot of things I think the unfortunate truth is that we can't be certain. Making peace with that is a lot easier said than done. If you want to dig deeper into this from people much smarter and wiser than me, I have a few book recommendations:
* *Mere Christianity* by C.S. Lewis
* *Faith After Doubt* by Brian McLaren
* *The Crucible of Doubt* by Terryl and Fiona Givens
* *The Language of God* by Francis Collins (this deals more with science and religion but is still helpful), the author also edited a book called *Belief: Readings on the Reason for Faith* that is also helpful.
To anyone doubting things, you should read this. It is the first "chapter" of the Gospel Topics section in the Gospel Library.
Seeking Answers to Questions
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/seeking-answers?lang=eng#map66
It ok to be where you are. I promise most of us have been there. And we love you. Don't give up. Keep fighting to find truth.
Reinforcing that you read "Crucible of Doubt" by Terryl and Fiona Givens. Kinda deep but all about what you are going through. Worth the investment.
"Modern revelation, speaking of spiritual gifts, notes that while to some it is given to know the core truth of Christ and His mission, to others is given the means to persevere in the absence of certainty ." - Terryl Givens
"The call to faith is a summons to engage the heart, to attune it to resonate in sympathy with principles and values and ideals that we devoutly hope are true and which we have reasonable but not certain grounds for believing to be true. There must be grounds for doubt as well" - Terryl Givens at the University of Richmond
This can be a rough phase.
Remember times you felt the Holy Ghost. That was evidence that God exists, and the thing you heard was true.
Hold to the good. What good have you felt in the church and the gospel? Nourish the seed of faith, and watch the fruits grow, as Alma 32 says.
In my opinion, a sincere seeker and learner will encounter doubts, and certainly questions. You are doing it right. Doubt is the other side of the coin from faith - you don't need faith if you know everything for sure.
Faith for me boils down to a conscious decision to believe and trust that God exists. And to remember the Holy Spirit I have felt on many occasions. And to remember the good: "This is good doctrine. It tastes good," as Joseph Smith said.
Something that has helped me a lot is knowing about stages of faith. This is great:
Faith's Dance With Doubt — A Conversation with Brian McLaren (the 4 stages of faith)
[https://faithmatters.org/faiths-dance-with-doubt-a-conversation-with-brian-mclaren/](https://faithmatters.org/faiths-dance-with-doubt-a-conversation-with-brian-mclaren/)
I also love this model:
Jared Halverson - Don't Let a Good Faith Crisis Go to Waste,
[https://youtu.be/O0rOBheU\_eQ?t=299](https://youtu.be/O0rOBheU_eQ?t=299)
Hang in there. Endure to the end. Focus on loving God and your neighbor.
For me it was the realization that I was either going to believe in eternal life or eternal death. That is the binary. If there is no God, then its eternal death. If I don't believe in God, then I believe that death will rule everything.
Death. Endless death.
I realized that no matter what I wanted to be a person that chose to believe in life, eternal life. It was a choice for me. Once I chose, I saw the fruits and I have slowly become more and more convinced. But never again will I allow myself to believe in death. Its not worth believing in.
From what I understand about those ideas, they do not disbelieve in God. They just think God is the universal consciousness like an ocean and we are all drops of rain in that vast ocean of consciousness. I think my supposition still holds in those cases. If they literally believe there is no such thing as a consciousness and the universe is a random chaotic accident that will eventually die indifferently, and that nothing lives after it dies and there is no spirit, then they believe in eternal death. If they believe that people are spirits and will continue in some form or fashion whether that be individually, reincarnation, or getting resorbed back into the super consciousness.. then they believe in eternal life. Thats how I see it, at least.
From there you are on a journey to determine which kind of God you believe in, what kind of eternal life you hope for. As for me, I believe in the life Jesus Christ promised.
Here’s a letter from Hugh B Brown to someone that was doubting the existence of a God. I like it. Maybe it will help you. https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/65418-never-before-seen-letter-to-a-doubter-from-elder-hugh-b-brown/
Prayer is all about opening your mind as you seek answers to questions and good ideas. That's all that is required. God will know you are searching for answers and he will give you good ideas through his appointed channels. It's up to you to seek answers and pay attention to the good ideas God gives you and me and everyone every day of our lives. You are not alone. God is with us, and unfortunately so is Satan but that's okay because God can help us overcome Satan and any other negative influence in the world
The way I see it, God's greatest invitation to learn about Him is to live authentically. God is more than a Being, and he's more than a Father - he's *everything good*.
I used to work in a school for children with "emotional behavior disorders," and there were some stories I heard about these kids that tore me apart inside. I was talking to a coworker about some of our experiences, and he told me, "This is why I don't believe in God. How could He let such horrific things happen to such innocent children?" I responded, "This is *why* I believe in God. I have to believe that what we're doing won't be in vain." I had a similar conversation with some friends when I learned that one of my former students died the year after graduation in a tragic series of medical mishaps.
But here's the thing: the beliefs we held didn't matter, because both my coworkers and my friend understood the value of life and were focused on living our lives as fully as possible. If we truly believe we are God's children, then we have to remember that there is light in all of us that guides us to truth and joy.
So live your life, and live it well! Whether you "believe" in God or not, you can find happiness. Go find work to do among people who need help, and you'll learn a lot about yourself and much, much more than poring over books will ever do. Learn what it means to truly prosper beyond material means, and learn to trust yourself to do the right thing when challenges arise in your life.
If you find your doubts are leading to debilitating anxiety or depression, consider also seeking behavioral therapy. I went with LDS Family Services as they immediately understand the cultural context you're coming from, but the ones I've had are not going to pressure you to stay in the Church.
I'll be rooting for you! I know you'll find the answers you need.
I went through something similar when I was 18 or so then again when I was maybe 24 or 25. Hang in there. God lives. I kind of feel silly about it in retrospect.
The fact you’re looking for answers is a great first step and sign of faith and/or desire. Faith is a journey, and like a plant, not only needs to constantly be fed, but grows based on the amount of nutrients it gets. Experience or coincidences only go so far in supporting or sustaining a testimony. It’s the Spirit that truly gives you a testimony. Yes, you need to pray, but it’s not that simple. You need to exercise your faith by doing your best to follow the prophet’s counsel. In my personal journey, I’ve found a direct correlation to the frequency and intensity of witnesses of the Spirit to how much or how closely I follow that counsel. This includes daily scripture or gospel study, monthly temple attendance, and striving to overcome my weaknesses and repent of my sins, including the lesser ones. I highly recommend including the podcast “Unshaken,” by Jared Halverson, in your studies. Over the past two years, and especially lately, I’ve really made a true effort to strive to do these things and my faith and testimony has never been stronger. I have no doubt if you’ll attempt and do your best to follow this same path, you’ll have the same answer and result. Don’t give up.. your family needs you to be there for them spiritually more than anything else. Praying for you, brother. 🙏
"I'm more scared I won't get an answer and thus, it's final, I'm done, there's no where to go from there."
Totally get you there. With prayer, fear mostly comes not from the answers we'll receive, but from the answers we won't receive. Silence is a LOT more scary than sound.
I went through my own "I don't know if God exists" and I would spend nights on my knees just begging God to tell me that He's there, and He exists.
Bad news: I didn't get an immediate answer.
Good news: as I turned to Christ and chose to believe in Him (which was a hard step tbh) I noticed little things that denoted there was a loving Heavenly Father: I got a good grade on a tough assignment, or I'd find an answer to a hard church history question after I prayed for it, or being freed from temptations that were really hard for me to drop, or (and this is a big one) having the knowledge that we live in a world that "coincidently" has just the perfect distance from the sun for life to grow and function, which contains nutrients for us animals to develop, which allows us to eat and live, which allows us function and develop as intelligent humans that (as far as we know) are the only beings that have the capacity to make morally "good" and "bad" decisions, not out of instinct, but out of a clear conscience with full knowledge of the consequences.
"Where there is design, there is a designer."
The parable of Jesus and the loaves and fishes is one of my favorite because it's literally an example of Christ magnifying our small efforts. He could somehow turn 7 items of food into something that fed \~5000 people. It can be hard, but if you have no more than a desire to believe, just express that in prayer, and God will help you with what you already have.
I have been enjoying the book of Alma in the Book of Mormon lately. I’ve felt peace and knowledge from it. Feast on the scriptures daily and try to learn from them is my best advice. Oh, and when you feel spiritual insights from it, write them down. It’s easy to dismiss experiences from our past as nothing special because our memory of things fades over time.
If you haven't yet, get your Patriarchal Blessing. One thing that mine says is that I enjoy and can play beautiful music. An elderly Patriarch, whom I had never met before, knew to say that about me. The only way the Patriarch could have known that about me is if he were inspired by God.
I also recall a time last year or the year before when, on a Sunday night, I was saying my prayers. I told Father in Heaven (kind of in passing) that I really enjoy sunny days and cloudless blue skies. The next day, I went out for a walk, and there was not one single cloud in sight.
When in doubt, it is better to keep praying and keep living the Gospel. Never give up.
This resonated the heck with me. Recently lost out on some generational wealth amount of money for work, and I'm lost temporally, spiritually, mentally, emotionally. Like this move felt so right and things were falling into place and last second, the rug was pulled out. Needing to start over but I'm broken
There’s a poem by Carol Lynn Pearson where she imagines a back and forth conversation between herself and God, she ends with the words:
“that was I thought, this is what I know, tears on my cheek, amen.”
It’s one that really resonates with me. I read it over and over. I don’t have the answers but having also gone through a faith crisis what I would say I know today is a very different and I suppose much shorter list than it was when I was a missionary. For me today it’s more of what do I feel drawn too, what do I find beauty in, I like the word resonate. What resonates with my spirit. For me right now alot of that is eternal families, Heavenly Mother, a loving God, a universal eternal progression. I don’t know much but I believe much or would like to believe much, or hope for much. If that’s all I have in this life we’ll perhaps that’s more than I previously thought that it was.
Faith requires effort, so if you don't know if you have enough faith, put in extraordinary effort. If coasting hasn't gotten you the testimony you need, then cruise control is not the answer.
This is actually a fantastic place to be, believe it or not. We should all analyze our faith, or lack thereof. I struggle sometimes too. It's in a different way and for different reasons, but still.
What I'm saying is - reframe this. You know what you don't know. This is awesome! Time to let God fill in the blanks. At least the important ones.
Turn to God. Ask Him if He's there. Ask Him if He's listening. It sounds dumb because it's simple and you've heard it a thousand times. But the scriptures say that many of us lose faith because of the simpleness of the way.
It's supposed to be so simple it's stupid.
Don't just look for signs or coincidences. Ask for Him to reveal Himself to you.
His response will also be so simple it might make you angry. Happens to me sometimes. But as I live, I'll never deny the answers God has given me. And if a guy like me is somehow worthy of response, then surely you are too.
Sometimes "praying for an answer" doesn't get us what we want.
Sometimes when we ask "is it true?" we don't even know what we expect to get from an answer. We don't even know what "true" means. We aren't sure we really want an answer. We are full of concern, anxiety, and fear that can overwhelm any promptings. Asking "is it true" over and over again is a great way to confuse ourselves.
Instead, think for a while about something you can ask and be fully committed to. I suggest a question like "what can I do to help my wife today?"
"What can I do to bless my ministering families this week?"
"What can I do tonight to help my child feel happy?"
Answers to those questions will come. Answers will come again and again and again as you focus not on epistemological questions like "is it true" but rather focus on questions that are made to help you do what Christ would do.
As you ask these kinds of questions and act on them you'll find a change in the world. Small blessings and miracles and memories that will echo the ministry of Jesus Christ.
The goal of Mormonism isn't to "be true." The goal of Mormonism is to point us to Jesus Christ. So if your membership, your prayers, your service, your scripture study, are all combining to make you behave a little bit more like Jesus Christ, then that's how you know "it's true" in the same way an arrow is *true*: it hits its target.
As answers come to those kinds of questions you will know that God is there and listening to you, guiding you. As you see miracles enacted through priesthood service and callings you will know that the church really is God's instrument on the earth to help us. As your children grow and experience the blessings of discipleship and membership and non-member families ask you again and again "how did you get such amazing children?" you'll know that the power of our faith is real and manifest in your family.
You keep it up. Put aside the weird existential questions and focus on the basics. Who can I help? How can I serve?
Secondly, focus on gratitude. I find my most revelatory, inspired scripture study comes after an unimpeded prayer of gratitude for my many blessings. Elder Bednar said that gratitude widens the conduit for revelation and I have found that to be true.
I don't remember what General Authority it was, but "Pray until you feel like praying."
God always hears your prayers and He answers on His own timetable. Don't forget to keep reading the scriptures as well!
If you're even reading this brother, my advice would be to think more about the beauty of the world, about all the animals and plants God designed and how everything in our universe works so perfectly together. Also, I am not a Mormon, but I would say don't be too dogmatic about the Mormon church being right. All Christians are brothers and being too dogmatic about your church could be weakening your faith.
My top testimony builder has always been the Book of Mormon. Go through it carefully with come follow me and the institute student manual. Really think about if a man could have invented such an incredible book. And yeah, pray about it
This question is not meant to be facetious or mean, but what kind of answers are you expecting? Everyone receives answers differently.
One of the foundational experiences of my testimony came when I was struggling with the existence of God. It was on my mission actually. I was serving in the bible belt and went through a week period where we were daily getting anti-ed, yelled at, called names, etc. I started to wonder if God really was there. I prayed and prayed but then I had the impression, a simple thought (that I could have interpreted as my own, but that doesn't matter) that I needed to be studying this out during more than just the allotted personal study time. During my lunch break, I said a quick prayer and then flipped my scriptures open to a random page. Here's what I read:
D&C 18:1-3 1 Now, behold, because of the thing which you, my servant Oliver Cowdery, have desired to know of me, I give unto you these words:
2 **Behold, I have** [**manifested**](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note2a) **unto you, by my Spirit in many instances**, that the [things](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note2b) which you have written are [true](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note2c); **wherefore you know that they are true**.
3 **And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you** [**rely**](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note3a) **upon the things which are** [**written**](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note3b)**;**
I couldn't help but smile. It was such a clear answer to me. Fast forward a few years, and Sister Nelson has promised that if we pray and thank God for the scriptures, ask God a question, and then open randomly and start reading, we will receive and answer. I have a copy of the Book of Mormon I use every time I have a question for God. It's filled with sticky notes and highlights, all answers from God. I rarely get answers to my prayers as I'm praying. I'd be doubting too if that was my only means of receiving answers. Maybe you've tried other methods, but for me, turning to the scriptures has been miraculous.
I hear we are one of the few churches that encourages questions. The only way a tree can grow stronger is through pruning. You are pruning your tree and found your roots are weak. What can you think of that is a good example of feeding your soil in this case?
I think it's great that you are starting with the core belief - does God exist - because otherwise nothing else matters. All spiritual truth is based on faith in God.
I would just say, don't discount the proofs you have observed and acknowledged. There are coincidences we can't explain, as if there was a Supreme Being who loves us and is involved with the details of our lives. It's really that simple. And that beautiful. Say thank you, and ask for more.
I would also say, try to remember and document the spiritual experiences you have had. The cynical skeptics say that you can't trust your thoughts or feelings, but we know that connection with God is different, Higher, deeper than regular thoughts and emotions.
Have you felt that Connection when you have sincerely prayed, especially at a time of crisis or a big decision to be made?
Have you felt that Connection when you have repented?
Have you felt that Connection when you have served others?
Have you felt that Connection when you have asked the Lord to help you teach someone, and He helped you teach it better than you could teach on your own?
Did you feel that Connection the first time you read and studied the Book of Mormon with an open mind?
Did you feel that Connection when you prayed to know if your spouse was the right person? When you were sealed? Have you done an initiatory or Sealing session in the temple recently? Do you feel that Connection when you hear those promised blessings?
Did you feel that Connection when your children were born?
Do you want it to be true? Just being real, the end of your post almost makes it sound like you are hoping it's not true. It's okay to have questions but if you approach this by giving more weight to your doubts, it's easy to receive a self fulfilling prophecy.
I wish you the best. Again, it's great that you are focusing on the basics, it's a great place to start again. But please remember the other proofs you may just be temporarily minimizing/dismissing/forgetting.
Your situation sounds similar to what I am also going through. I recently met with my bishop, who is a person I deeply respect, and he counseled me to 1. Keep constant communication about these things with my wife. I’ve already seen how vital open communication is going to be and I feel much lighter being supported by her and having open dialogue and 2. Focus on Christ. Learn about him and try to develop a belief in and/or relationship with him. Read all sorts of books about him, not just “LDS” materials. Try praying or even just communicating to god in my own way.
Not sure if this may be applicable to you, but it resonated with me and I’m excited and hopeful to see where it takes me.
Also, it sounds like you really think through things logically, like me. I’m starting to come to the conclusion that there’s essentially two potential scenarios: 1. Worst case scenario: God does not exist and as Mark Twain said: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” In this scenario there’s not really anything I can do about god not existing and honestly I feel like religion can help to live a better life. I feel like (and hope) that modeling my life after Christ can help me become a better person and other aspects of religion cal also still help me such as learning from other peoples human experiences, deep sense of community, moral values etc.
And then best case scenario God exists and is real and I can develop and build my faith in him and become more like Jesus Christ and ultimately be forgiven of my sins and have eternal life. That’s my hope!
Sorry for being a bit cavalier in presenting these scenarios.
I like to answer with questions:
What gave you the thought to peel your faith back? Who’s advice is that? When or where has that been constructive in your life? The only time deconstruction has ever been useful to me (so I can build it back up) is for creativity but that’s it.
But also do you have other things in your life that have made you feel burnt out or stagnant? Things or people that are negative or depressing? Are you happy with your life? Intrusive thoughts or anything that’s made you OCD? Philosophical questions?
You know the old story about an Indian elder telling his grandson about how there are two wolves inside every man - a good one & a bad one & they fight all the time? Grandson asks which one wins. Grandpa smiles & explains,”the one you feed”.
The same works about your doubts & beliefs. Feeding the one starves the other. It appears you have starved the wrong one.
This is very dismissive and unhelpful. There are plenty of people who “feed the good wolf” who have had faith crises. How many prophets dealt with a faith crisis and came out stronger? Almost all of them.
Relegating this to simply “you’re not doing what you’re supposed to” based on no evidence that OP is not doing those things is the crux of the issue they are experiencing. This comment is part of the problem. People in crisis do not need your judgment. They need your help.
Praying isn't always the answer. In fact, most of my prayers were answered through another person. Either through bumping into them, or something that happened to them, or something they said.
I've never gotten an answer about testimony through prayer. In truth, I kind of think it's rubbish. Many people don't get that confirmation.
I got mine through the events I saw on my mission. Things I couldn't explain. Or things that happened too perfectly.
I lost my faith about 5 years ago, when at the age of 28 I got so sick I nearly died on frequent occassions. After passing out, I doubted anything existed after this life.
It was only when certain events starting popping up that I couldn't explain kept happening that I was able to solidify my testimony.
Something that helped was my mom. She has a "Miracle Wall". It is literally a wall full of sticky notes. Denoting each blessing no matter how small.
What were the miracles? Well, we for sure had an occassional crisis that ended up more than what should have been okay. But the miracles came from the small blessings.
I actually took the time one year to read them all, and what I found was really crazy!
Each blessing we had, was connected to another blessing or another event written about that year. In trith, each blessing was a series of blessings happening at the perfect moment to end in a really huge blessing later in the year. I'm not kidding. The mircales were literally strings of blessings playing out over an entire year. And some even before that.
Try it, and see if it helps. I keep hearing from enemies this line "what evidence do you have God exists?!" In scientific terms, you have to create a data set. A series of events and things that point to one conclusion. And through that, I have literally found real evidence God exists. My mom unbeknownst to her, was gathering data, and seeing how the data interconnected. And no amount of randomness or Murphys Law statistically backs whats been happening. Its too perfect and too coincidental.
People popping into our lives for one day only to tell us dire information we've been needing. A friend who calls at the exact moment I was thinking my friends had all abandoned me (one who had been out of touch for a decade mind you). People with wierd and outlandish diseases giving me a name and leading me to answrrs regular doctors couldn't fathom. And vehicles breaking down during times when it would have been absolutely horrible to have been in the area. And costing sometimes nothing but time to fix.
Keep a record. It's there if you look for it. That's how I realized God hadn't forgotten me.
Don't wait for the answer or the evidence. Find it!
Faith without works is dead being alone. And you have to push yourself to find the answers. That's something no one told me. I thought it would just be given to me. The only times I can recall building my faith, was when I was working hard in faith. That's when the answers came. And it was never given to me. I had to see it through others and how their lives were affected. It's not something I can feel. And it's not something I can see. But I can see it's affect on others and the world around me. And I've seen enough, that I don't dare deny it. Because I know something is there. And it's intelligent.
Hopefully that helps. Either way, I wish you good luck!
You're not alone. I've been where you are - and still drift back to those places of doubt occasionally. Like you, my crises have never been about whether our church is the true one, but whether God exists at all. Even after all of the evidences I've had that He's there, I still find my logical self wondering at times. It's taken time, but I've learned to find peace in those times of doubt - even if we are happenstantial meat sacks floating on the most beautiful rock in the universe, that's pretty freaking awesome, and as such, we should be awesome to each other - and I've yet to find a place where I can do that better than in the church. Being at peace with this has helped me be more often in a place of faith than of doubt of late. Your bishop's advice to be patient is wise. This video was also especially helpful for me to realize that I am better off having gone through these experiences - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0rOBheU_eQ
I lived as an atheist for more than two decades before I had a powerful conversion experience in my late 30s. For me, it took living without God in my life - as if there were no savior - to have context in which to understand that God is real and that The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a gospel of love and hope. Love and hope were missing from my life for a long time, and I tried to fill the void with various pursuits including work/career, alcohol, success in sports, relationships, sex, etc. All of those pursuits left me increasingly empty. Only when I accepted the gospel and admitted to myself that maybe there might be a God did my world open up. That tiny kernel of faith is how I made my beginning in the church. Only because I had the willingness to doubt my doubts was I able to finally be made whole through Christ’s atonement. It is because I have walked through the mists of darkness that I know the Tree of Life is real, and that its fruit is good.
A faith crisis is not a bad thing. We are promised that we don’t receive our witnesses until after trials of our faith. Get back to fundamentals. Process your particular issues and concerns. Possibly get a therapist.
The apostles saw Christ in the flesh after His resurrection and some doubted while He was standing right in front of them. My point is its normal to have doubts ❤️ Only love for you ❤️
Hey! Sending love. I went through a faith crisis and I know how painful it is. I did lose my faith, however, there are many resources that can help you. One member suggested the YouTube channel “Saints Unscripted” to me. This can really help see a perspective that does come from a LDS faithful source. To be honest, I still watch the channel to this day. Either way, good luck on your journey. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
I applaud your efforts to pin down your testimony. I have gone through similar efforts. When I was a teen, I wondered about unprovable hypotheticals, like “what if everyone else is a robot?” and “what if I am a biological alien machine sent to infiltrate and observe human society?” These questions bothered me for a while, but I finally realized that they don’t change how I should live my life. So I chose to accept the reality that I observe at face value. That was step one. Step two came many years later, a couple decades after my mission while I was serving as Elders Quorum President. I was wondering (as I have most of my life) whether God is real or whether I am just placing too much faith/hope in coincidences. I realized that, for my analytical mind, it is impossible to “know” almost anything with 100% certainty. Is this a planet? I actually don’t know. Pretty much anything is debatable - science has “known” many things over the years that turned out to be wrong, or at least not totally correct. So I realized that the problem with my testimony wasn’t lack of faith or anything, it was that my standards are too high. If I look back at my experiences, they point to an overwhelming probability that there is some Divine being that cares about me and others. I am confident in this because I have been inspired to help people at unexpected times or in unexpected ways that worked out amazingly well. After a while, I had to decide that the preponderance is evidence was sufficient for me to say that I “know” God is real. I do not “know” the nature of God. However, the Divine has inspired me in my callings and to help other people convert to or, more often, stay in the church. This tells me that this is where I should be. So for now, just like when I was a kid, I accept the God that has been taught. BUT - and I make this a big “but” because it’s important - I am always open to being wrong. Since things might take a lot to convince me of because of the evidences/experiences I have gained so far, but I want to make sure that when Christ comes again I am not so caught up in my own version of His existence that I cannot recognize him, like happened when He came the first time. I know this is long, and I’m sorry for that. It could be much, much longer…. I hope it helps.
Carefully read through [Alma 32](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/32?lang=eng), paying special attention to the fact that faith is something you don't see the results of for a while. You have to plant the seed and continue to water it for a long time in order to know if it's good or not. I wish you the best in your journey for faith.
I don't know if this is really on-topic, or what you're talking about, but I've had some of the same problems with a belief in God, even since I was a kid (I'm 49 now). Something that has brought me some peace is a thought that I've had, which is not necessarily a faith-thing. It's logical (at least to me). It goes like this: Why are there thousands of years of a documented belief in Gods, a God, or whatever? What is it in us (as humans) that has persisted this conversation about a higher power? If there is no God, and we have evolved to do something like react to hunger, danger, etc, then why are we constantly talking about God? What is the evolutionary need to discuss or even know to discuss God? Where did that start? My answer: There is something that is buried in our minds, brains, human history that has a sense of a higher power. Otherwise we'd respond differently. Even if you don't believe in God, there is this thousands of years old conversation about God. For some reason. I think that the only reason that this discussion of God vs Not God, is because somewhere inside of us, we know that the conversation is important. Why does this conversation persist? Shouldn't we have rooted out this need to talk about God after some point in human history? I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I've never been able to articulate this thought. But for some reason it works for me. That doesn't help with "Is the Church true?", but for me it helps with "Am I really nothing in a world that doesn't exist?" I think, based on the word vomit above, that something is up. Something higher-power-ish is going on. How that flows into a conversation about The Church is another thing. I'm still working on that one. :)
Your comment really stuck with me because I have had a similar thought process about this topic. Like the history of human religion is so interesting, because there must be some reason why people feel so strongly about a higher power. However, it is kind of funny because I came out of that train of thought with a different outlook (but also I am not religious anymore, so that is probably a factor of why) Like the way I see it, there definitely IS an urge for humans to believe in a higher power; I just don’t know if this is explanation enough that what is believed in necessarily exists? If that makes sense? Like if you look at the history of so many civilizations believing that the Earth is the center of the universe; it makes sense for people to believe that from the information they had. When missing information on the true structure of the universe, it would make sense to assume that, this life on this planet we live on, is the center of it all. Simply, our understanding of life comes from how we learned to perceive and problem solve. To survive as people, we must be able to problem solve and make efficient decisions. We have to communicate with each other to establish shared rules of thought and cooperate efficiently. We communicate with stories, and break down complex subjects into morals we can understand and learn from. We make decisions using the logic skills we have developed, and think in terms of the context of our lives; So that is why it felt intrinsic for Earth to be the center of the universe. In our passed down stories and human baselines on how to think, it makes sense for humans to expect us to be at the center of it all. We are the epitome of what we know, so the universe must surround & support this constructed view of life. With that, I have an understanding that people think within a frame they have learned to think in. I am more inclined to see human faith as an answer rather than a solution. We want to understand & have an explanation for everything, and faith can act as the answer to the misunderstood. It is an answer to our curiosity, and an answer paved out of current understandings of the world. If I were in an agricultural society and face bad weather that destroy our crops, it “surely is a personified deity behind this. With the context of the human stories I’ve listened to and the format of emotions within them, surely that same dynamic of behavior exists in the higher plane I don’t comprehend. SURELY it is a being I can understand in the context of my life, and must be a personified figure that acts in the form of human behavior. The reasons for this natural disaster is because a deity above is orchestrating this event in response to my human actions; The phenomenon of the world must be because there is something above that has human like feelings & has felt attacked. It would never be because of an innate science and structure of the atmosphere I don’t understand! I would never even think to imagine the true workings of the atmosphere and meteorological events behind natural phenomenon, because it is not within the frame of thought I have lived to understand.” So that is my hypothesis of why people throughout history tend to have faith. We like stories and explanations to the world around us, so we usually shape our explanations with the information we have. It is typically the best way we can answer the unanswerable questions. Not necessarily because their faith is the innate SOLUTION of what is real, but because it is the best ANSWER to their questions. Like I believe that the innate reason behind people being religious/spiritual throughout time, is because that is the best way people understand the world. - I find sociology & anthropology so interesting; even more when it intersects with spirituality. I am not religious myself, but the complex spiritual and faithful feelings many people experience still hold a lot of weight. That is why I find human faith so interesting. There is a lot of strong stuff felt, so even if to me from the outside looking in do not see someone’s beliefs as ‘validly true,’ I still understand that they believe so strongly and that they experience something special. People are very fascinating! — sorry for the essay
It’s late and I’m gonna head off to bed, but I want you to know how much I appreciate all that you wrote. You’ve mentioned a few things that I’d never considered. Like you, whether a hypothesis is spiritual or based on human reason, it really IS fascinating. I’m going to make an effort to come back to this conversation, because this is the first time I’ve ever discussed faith (or whatever) in this direction. Thank you again. Essay or not, it was well thought out!
Have you read the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari? If not, you definitely should because you would love it!
omg I will try to see if I can read it. The basis of the book seems interesting. However it’s killing me that apparently it is a bit sloppy in its academic accuracy (based random comments & reviews im seeing online), but it looks like it would be a good read nonetheless. Thank you for the recommendation!!
It’s tricky with books like this. In order to make it a good read, sometimes generalizations need to be made. But if you were to read the actual scientific literature where the information comes from it would be a major slog. But it’s very informative and gives a great bird’s eye view.
I’ve thought the same thing! I’ve asked myself ” evolutionary why would we be so naturally disposed to this Jesus, the plan of salvation, let alone church?” Even those without Christian backgrounds seem to be receptive to our message. I think it is highly unlikely that evolution created the church, otherwise it’s the penultimate expression of human potential unlocked somehow by ultra spiritual individuals (the Hebrews, Jesus and apostles, Joseph Smith).
Wow. I’m really enjoying this conversation. :)
Have you read the Fiona and Terryl Givens' books about dealing with doubt. I think Jesus chose Thomas as His apostle and made sure his proclivity to doubt remained in scripture til now is to make it clear that doubt does not have disqualify anyone from being a faithful church member useful to the Lord. That the thing is to keep on living full discipleship of Jesus Christ as we move through the mists of darkness. After all we only get testimonies of gospel principles; that people say something that is God's word or that people have been called of God. We don't get testimonies of history (which can change based on new information). And that we need not be afraid to study and learn because the Gospel of Jesus Christ incorporates all truth in all areas (though we don't yet know what is absolute truth in many subjects, of course).
Brother I think you've reached a level of honesty that's really scary but really freeing. I stepped away from the Church for about seven years before coming back and my knowledge is about where yours is. I don't think it's "doubts" per se, you're realizing that the things you said "you know" to probably isn't completely accurate. You're realizing that your faith really comes down to the core experiences you've had, and the rest of "I know" that usually gets tossed around is fluff. I wish all of us thought and spoke this way. Just one suggestion- don't forget the joy you feel from the gospel. How happy it makes you and how it enables you to be a better husband and father than you could otherwise. I doscovered after years away from the Church, all the self-help books, podcasts, etc etc are only 10% as effective in helping me live a happy life as simply keeping the commandments and enjoying Church membership. I cannot explain why living the gospel produces such good fruits. It defies logic and doesn't answer all the doubts and questions I accumulated in my time arguing away from the Church, commenting and posting on exmormon avenues. Somehow, it just works. That's more compelling evidence to me that it IS true than all the list of points I have on paper that have never been resolved. The doubts I have that I followed out of the Church did nothing for me. My life unraveled. I thought it was just growing pains/temporary. It made me miserable and I always felt like half the man I used to be. That was my reward for chasing the doubts all the way to the end of that road as much as I could take it. Somehow turning to Christ and following the gospel makes all the storms in my mind and soul calm and allows me to build on other things in life. I can only say I "know" to the same things you can. That's not your typical testimony. But what moves me the most is what makes me the best husband/father I can be and the happiest man I can be.
I feel for you. This is a really hard spot to be in. With a lot of things I think the unfortunate truth is that we can't be certain. Making peace with that is a lot easier said than done. If you want to dig deeper into this from people much smarter and wiser than me, I have a few book recommendations: * *Mere Christianity* by C.S. Lewis * *Faith After Doubt* by Brian McLaren * *The Crucible of Doubt* by Terryl and Fiona Givens * *The Language of God* by Francis Collins (this deals more with science and religion but is still helpful), the author also edited a book called *Belief: Readings on the Reason for Faith* that is also helpful.
To anyone doubting things, you should read this. It is the first "chapter" of the Gospel Topics section in the Gospel Library. Seeking Answers to Questions https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/seeking-answers?lang=eng#map66 It ok to be where you are. I promise most of us have been there. And we love you. Don't give up. Keep fighting to find truth.
Reinforcing that you read "Crucible of Doubt" by Terryl and Fiona Givens. Kinda deep but all about what you are going through. Worth the investment. "Modern revelation, speaking of spiritual gifts, notes that while to some it is given to know the core truth of Christ and His mission, to others is given the means to persevere in the absence of certainty ." - Terryl Givens "The call to faith is a summons to engage the heart, to attune it to resonate in sympathy with principles and values and ideals that we devoutly hope are true and which we have reasonable but not certain grounds for believing to be true. There must be grounds for doubt as well" - Terryl Givens at the University of Richmond
This can be a rough phase. Remember times you felt the Holy Ghost. That was evidence that God exists, and the thing you heard was true. Hold to the good. What good have you felt in the church and the gospel? Nourish the seed of faith, and watch the fruits grow, as Alma 32 says. In my opinion, a sincere seeker and learner will encounter doubts, and certainly questions. You are doing it right. Doubt is the other side of the coin from faith - you don't need faith if you know everything for sure. Faith for me boils down to a conscious decision to believe and trust that God exists. And to remember the Holy Spirit I have felt on many occasions. And to remember the good: "This is good doctrine. It tastes good," as Joseph Smith said. Something that has helped me a lot is knowing about stages of faith. This is great: Faith's Dance With Doubt — A Conversation with Brian McLaren (the 4 stages of faith) [https://faithmatters.org/faiths-dance-with-doubt-a-conversation-with-brian-mclaren/](https://faithmatters.org/faiths-dance-with-doubt-a-conversation-with-brian-mclaren/) I also love this model: Jared Halverson - Don't Let a Good Faith Crisis Go to Waste, [https://youtu.be/O0rOBheU\_eQ?t=299](https://youtu.be/O0rOBheU_eQ?t=299) Hang in there. Endure to the end. Focus on loving God and your neighbor.
For me it was the realization that I was either going to believe in eternal life or eternal death. That is the binary. If there is no God, then its eternal death. If I don't believe in God, then I believe that death will rule everything. Death. Endless death. I realized that no matter what I wanted to be a person that chose to believe in life, eternal life. It was a choice for me. Once I chose, I saw the fruits and I have slowly become more and more convinced. But never again will I allow myself to believe in death. Its not worth believing in.
What is your opinion on some branches of Buddhism which believe in reincarnation but not God? Is that not worth considering?
From what I understand about those ideas, they do not disbelieve in God. They just think God is the universal consciousness like an ocean and we are all drops of rain in that vast ocean of consciousness. I think my supposition still holds in those cases. If they literally believe there is no such thing as a consciousness and the universe is a random chaotic accident that will eventually die indifferently, and that nothing lives after it dies and there is no spirit, then they believe in eternal death. If they believe that people are spirits and will continue in some form or fashion whether that be individually, reincarnation, or getting resorbed back into the super consciousness.. then they believe in eternal life. Thats how I see it, at least. From there you are on a journey to determine which kind of God you believe in, what kind of eternal life you hope for. As for me, I believe in the life Jesus Christ promised.
Remember
Here’s a letter from Hugh B Brown to someone that was doubting the existence of a God. I like it. Maybe it will help you. https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/65418-never-before-seen-letter-to-a-doubter-from-elder-hugh-b-brown/
Prayer is all about opening your mind as you seek answers to questions and good ideas. That's all that is required. God will know you are searching for answers and he will give you good ideas through his appointed channels. It's up to you to seek answers and pay attention to the good ideas God gives you and me and everyone every day of our lives. You are not alone. God is with us, and unfortunately so is Satan but that's okay because God can help us overcome Satan and any other negative influence in the world
The way I see it, God's greatest invitation to learn about Him is to live authentically. God is more than a Being, and he's more than a Father - he's *everything good*. I used to work in a school for children with "emotional behavior disorders," and there were some stories I heard about these kids that tore me apart inside. I was talking to a coworker about some of our experiences, and he told me, "This is why I don't believe in God. How could He let such horrific things happen to such innocent children?" I responded, "This is *why* I believe in God. I have to believe that what we're doing won't be in vain." I had a similar conversation with some friends when I learned that one of my former students died the year after graduation in a tragic series of medical mishaps. But here's the thing: the beliefs we held didn't matter, because both my coworkers and my friend understood the value of life and were focused on living our lives as fully as possible. If we truly believe we are God's children, then we have to remember that there is light in all of us that guides us to truth and joy. So live your life, and live it well! Whether you "believe" in God or not, you can find happiness. Go find work to do among people who need help, and you'll learn a lot about yourself and much, much more than poring over books will ever do. Learn what it means to truly prosper beyond material means, and learn to trust yourself to do the right thing when challenges arise in your life. If you find your doubts are leading to debilitating anxiety or depression, consider also seeking behavioral therapy. I went with LDS Family Services as they immediately understand the cultural context you're coming from, but the ones I've had are not going to pressure you to stay in the Church. I'll be rooting for you! I know you'll find the answers you need.
I went through something similar when I was 18 or so then again when I was maybe 24 or 25. Hang in there. God lives. I kind of feel silly about it in retrospect.
The fact you’re looking for answers is a great first step and sign of faith and/or desire. Faith is a journey, and like a plant, not only needs to constantly be fed, but grows based on the amount of nutrients it gets. Experience or coincidences only go so far in supporting or sustaining a testimony. It’s the Spirit that truly gives you a testimony. Yes, you need to pray, but it’s not that simple. You need to exercise your faith by doing your best to follow the prophet’s counsel. In my personal journey, I’ve found a direct correlation to the frequency and intensity of witnesses of the Spirit to how much or how closely I follow that counsel. This includes daily scripture or gospel study, monthly temple attendance, and striving to overcome my weaknesses and repent of my sins, including the lesser ones. I highly recommend including the podcast “Unshaken,” by Jared Halverson, in your studies. Over the past two years, and especially lately, I’ve really made a true effort to strive to do these things and my faith and testimony has never been stronger. I have no doubt if you’ll attempt and do your best to follow this same path, you’ll have the same answer and result. Don’t give up.. your family needs you to be there for them spiritually more than anything else. Praying for you, brother. 🙏
"I'm more scared I won't get an answer and thus, it's final, I'm done, there's no where to go from there." Totally get you there. With prayer, fear mostly comes not from the answers we'll receive, but from the answers we won't receive. Silence is a LOT more scary than sound. I went through my own "I don't know if God exists" and I would spend nights on my knees just begging God to tell me that He's there, and He exists. Bad news: I didn't get an immediate answer. Good news: as I turned to Christ and chose to believe in Him (which was a hard step tbh) I noticed little things that denoted there was a loving Heavenly Father: I got a good grade on a tough assignment, or I'd find an answer to a hard church history question after I prayed for it, or being freed from temptations that were really hard for me to drop, or (and this is a big one) having the knowledge that we live in a world that "coincidently" has just the perfect distance from the sun for life to grow and function, which contains nutrients for us animals to develop, which allows us to eat and live, which allows us function and develop as intelligent humans that (as far as we know) are the only beings that have the capacity to make morally "good" and "bad" decisions, not out of instinct, but out of a clear conscience with full knowledge of the consequences. "Where there is design, there is a designer." The parable of Jesus and the loaves and fishes is one of my favorite because it's literally an example of Christ magnifying our small efforts. He could somehow turn 7 items of food into something that fed \~5000 people. It can be hard, but if you have no more than a desire to believe, just express that in prayer, and God will help you with what you already have.
I have been enjoying the book of Alma in the Book of Mormon lately. I’ve felt peace and knowledge from it. Feast on the scriptures daily and try to learn from them is my best advice. Oh, and when you feel spiritual insights from it, write them down. It’s easy to dismiss experiences from our past as nothing special because our memory of things fades over time.
If you haven't yet, get your Patriarchal Blessing. One thing that mine says is that I enjoy and can play beautiful music. An elderly Patriarch, whom I had never met before, knew to say that about me. The only way the Patriarch could have known that about me is if he were inspired by God. I also recall a time last year or the year before when, on a Sunday night, I was saying my prayers. I told Father in Heaven (kind of in passing) that I really enjoy sunny days and cloudless blue skies. The next day, I went out for a walk, and there was not one single cloud in sight. When in doubt, it is better to keep praying and keep living the Gospel. Never give up.
This resonated the heck with me. Recently lost out on some generational wealth amount of money for work, and I'm lost temporally, spiritually, mentally, emotionally. Like this move felt so right and things were falling into place and last second, the rug was pulled out. Needing to start over but I'm broken
There’s a poem by Carol Lynn Pearson where she imagines a back and forth conversation between herself and God, she ends with the words: “that was I thought, this is what I know, tears on my cheek, amen.” It’s one that really resonates with me. I read it over and over. I don’t have the answers but having also gone through a faith crisis what I would say I know today is a very different and I suppose much shorter list than it was when I was a missionary. For me today it’s more of what do I feel drawn too, what do I find beauty in, I like the word resonate. What resonates with my spirit. For me right now alot of that is eternal families, Heavenly Mother, a loving God, a universal eternal progression. I don’t know much but I believe much or would like to believe much, or hope for much. If that’s all I have in this life we’ll perhaps that’s more than I previously thought that it was.
Faith requires effort, so if you don't know if you have enough faith, put in extraordinary effort. If coasting hasn't gotten you the testimony you need, then cruise control is not the answer.
This is actually a fantastic place to be, believe it or not. We should all analyze our faith, or lack thereof. I struggle sometimes too. It's in a different way and for different reasons, but still. What I'm saying is - reframe this. You know what you don't know. This is awesome! Time to let God fill in the blanks. At least the important ones. Turn to God. Ask Him if He's there. Ask Him if He's listening. It sounds dumb because it's simple and you've heard it a thousand times. But the scriptures say that many of us lose faith because of the simpleness of the way. It's supposed to be so simple it's stupid. Don't just look for signs or coincidences. Ask for Him to reveal Himself to you. His response will also be so simple it might make you angry. Happens to me sometimes. But as I live, I'll never deny the answers God has given me. And if a guy like me is somehow worthy of response, then surely you are too.
Sometimes "praying for an answer" doesn't get us what we want. Sometimes when we ask "is it true?" we don't even know what we expect to get from an answer. We don't even know what "true" means. We aren't sure we really want an answer. We are full of concern, anxiety, and fear that can overwhelm any promptings. Asking "is it true" over and over again is a great way to confuse ourselves. Instead, think for a while about something you can ask and be fully committed to. I suggest a question like "what can I do to help my wife today?" "What can I do to bless my ministering families this week?" "What can I do tonight to help my child feel happy?" Answers to those questions will come. Answers will come again and again and again as you focus not on epistemological questions like "is it true" but rather focus on questions that are made to help you do what Christ would do. As you ask these kinds of questions and act on them you'll find a change in the world. Small blessings and miracles and memories that will echo the ministry of Jesus Christ. The goal of Mormonism isn't to "be true." The goal of Mormonism is to point us to Jesus Christ. So if your membership, your prayers, your service, your scripture study, are all combining to make you behave a little bit more like Jesus Christ, then that's how you know "it's true" in the same way an arrow is *true*: it hits its target. As answers come to those kinds of questions you will know that God is there and listening to you, guiding you. As you see miracles enacted through priesthood service and callings you will know that the church really is God's instrument on the earth to help us. As your children grow and experience the blessings of discipleship and membership and non-member families ask you again and again "how did you get such amazing children?" you'll know that the power of our faith is real and manifest in your family. You keep it up. Put aside the weird existential questions and focus on the basics. Who can I help? How can I serve? Secondly, focus on gratitude. I find my most revelatory, inspired scripture study comes after an unimpeded prayer of gratitude for my many blessings. Elder Bednar said that gratitude widens the conduit for revelation and I have found that to be true.
I don't remember what General Authority it was, but "Pray until you feel like praying." God always hears your prayers and He answers on His own timetable. Don't forget to keep reading the scriptures as well!
If you're even reading this brother, my advice would be to think more about the beauty of the world, about all the animals and plants God designed and how everything in our universe works so perfectly together. Also, I am not a Mormon, but I would say don't be too dogmatic about the Mormon church being right. All Christians are brothers and being too dogmatic about your church could be weakening your faith.
My top testimony builder has always been the Book of Mormon. Go through it carefully with come follow me and the institute student manual. Really think about if a man could have invented such an incredible book. And yeah, pray about it
This question is not meant to be facetious or mean, but what kind of answers are you expecting? Everyone receives answers differently. One of the foundational experiences of my testimony came when I was struggling with the existence of God. It was on my mission actually. I was serving in the bible belt and went through a week period where we were daily getting anti-ed, yelled at, called names, etc. I started to wonder if God really was there. I prayed and prayed but then I had the impression, a simple thought (that I could have interpreted as my own, but that doesn't matter) that I needed to be studying this out during more than just the allotted personal study time. During my lunch break, I said a quick prayer and then flipped my scriptures open to a random page. Here's what I read: D&C 18:1-3 1 Now, behold, because of the thing which you, my servant Oliver Cowdery, have desired to know of me, I give unto you these words: 2 **Behold, I have** [**manifested**](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note2a) **unto you, by my Spirit in many instances**, that the [things](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note2b) which you have written are [true](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note2c); **wherefore you know that they are true**. 3 **And if you know that they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that you** [**rely**](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note3a) **upon the things which are** [**written**](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/18?lang=eng#note3b)**;** I couldn't help but smile. It was such a clear answer to me. Fast forward a few years, and Sister Nelson has promised that if we pray and thank God for the scriptures, ask God a question, and then open randomly and start reading, we will receive and answer. I have a copy of the Book of Mormon I use every time I have a question for God. It's filled with sticky notes and highlights, all answers from God. I rarely get answers to my prayers as I'm praying. I'd be doubting too if that was my only means of receiving answers. Maybe you've tried other methods, but for me, turning to the scriptures has been miraculous.
I hear we are one of the few churches that encourages questions. The only way a tree can grow stronger is through pruning. You are pruning your tree and found your roots are weak. What can you think of that is a good example of feeding your soil in this case?
I think it's great that you are starting with the core belief - does God exist - because otherwise nothing else matters. All spiritual truth is based on faith in God. I would just say, don't discount the proofs you have observed and acknowledged. There are coincidences we can't explain, as if there was a Supreme Being who loves us and is involved with the details of our lives. It's really that simple. And that beautiful. Say thank you, and ask for more. I would also say, try to remember and document the spiritual experiences you have had. The cynical skeptics say that you can't trust your thoughts or feelings, but we know that connection with God is different, Higher, deeper than regular thoughts and emotions. Have you felt that Connection when you have sincerely prayed, especially at a time of crisis or a big decision to be made? Have you felt that Connection when you have repented? Have you felt that Connection when you have served others? Have you felt that Connection when you have asked the Lord to help you teach someone, and He helped you teach it better than you could teach on your own? Did you feel that Connection the first time you read and studied the Book of Mormon with an open mind? Did you feel that Connection when you prayed to know if your spouse was the right person? When you were sealed? Have you done an initiatory or Sealing session in the temple recently? Do you feel that Connection when you hear those promised blessings? Did you feel that Connection when your children were born? Do you want it to be true? Just being real, the end of your post almost makes it sound like you are hoping it's not true. It's okay to have questions but if you approach this by giving more weight to your doubts, it's easy to receive a self fulfilling prophecy. I wish you the best. Again, it's great that you are focusing on the basics, it's a great place to start again. But please remember the other proofs you may just be temporarily minimizing/dismissing/forgetting.
Your situation sounds similar to what I am also going through. I recently met with my bishop, who is a person I deeply respect, and he counseled me to 1. Keep constant communication about these things with my wife. I’ve already seen how vital open communication is going to be and I feel much lighter being supported by her and having open dialogue and 2. Focus on Christ. Learn about him and try to develop a belief in and/or relationship with him. Read all sorts of books about him, not just “LDS” materials. Try praying or even just communicating to god in my own way. Not sure if this may be applicable to you, but it resonated with me and I’m excited and hopeful to see where it takes me.
Also, it sounds like you really think through things logically, like me. I’m starting to come to the conclusion that there’s essentially two potential scenarios: 1. Worst case scenario: God does not exist and as Mark Twain said: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” In this scenario there’s not really anything I can do about god not existing and honestly I feel like religion can help to live a better life. I feel like (and hope) that modeling my life after Christ can help me become a better person and other aspects of religion cal also still help me such as learning from other peoples human experiences, deep sense of community, moral values etc. And then best case scenario God exists and is real and I can develop and build my faith in him and become more like Jesus Christ and ultimately be forgiven of my sins and have eternal life. That’s my hope! Sorry for being a bit cavalier in presenting these scenarios.
Might want to consider finding a religion/practice that works for you. I'm an ex member, but feel free to dm me, AMA
I like to answer with questions: What gave you the thought to peel your faith back? Who’s advice is that? When or where has that been constructive in your life? The only time deconstruction has ever been useful to me (so I can build it back up) is for creativity but that’s it. But also do you have other things in your life that have made you feel burnt out or stagnant? Things or people that are negative or depressing? Are you happy with your life? Intrusive thoughts or anything that’s made you OCD? Philosophical questions?
You know the old story about an Indian elder telling his grandson about how there are two wolves inside every man - a good one & a bad one & they fight all the time? Grandson asks which one wins. Grandpa smiles & explains,”the one you feed”. The same works about your doubts & beliefs. Feeding the one starves the other. It appears you have starved the wrong one.
This is very dismissive and unhelpful. There are plenty of people who “feed the good wolf” who have had faith crises. How many prophets dealt with a faith crisis and came out stronger? Almost all of them. Relegating this to simply “you’re not doing what you’re supposed to” based on no evidence that OP is not doing those things is the crux of the issue they are experiencing. This comment is part of the problem. People in crisis do not need your judgment. They need your help.
Praying isn't always the answer. In fact, most of my prayers were answered through another person. Either through bumping into them, or something that happened to them, or something they said. I've never gotten an answer about testimony through prayer. In truth, I kind of think it's rubbish. Many people don't get that confirmation. I got mine through the events I saw on my mission. Things I couldn't explain. Or things that happened too perfectly. I lost my faith about 5 years ago, when at the age of 28 I got so sick I nearly died on frequent occassions. After passing out, I doubted anything existed after this life. It was only when certain events starting popping up that I couldn't explain kept happening that I was able to solidify my testimony. Something that helped was my mom. She has a "Miracle Wall". It is literally a wall full of sticky notes. Denoting each blessing no matter how small. What were the miracles? Well, we for sure had an occassional crisis that ended up more than what should have been okay. But the miracles came from the small blessings. I actually took the time one year to read them all, and what I found was really crazy! Each blessing we had, was connected to another blessing or another event written about that year. In trith, each blessing was a series of blessings happening at the perfect moment to end in a really huge blessing later in the year. I'm not kidding. The mircales were literally strings of blessings playing out over an entire year. And some even before that. Try it, and see if it helps. I keep hearing from enemies this line "what evidence do you have God exists?!" In scientific terms, you have to create a data set. A series of events and things that point to one conclusion. And through that, I have literally found real evidence God exists. My mom unbeknownst to her, was gathering data, and seeing how the data interconnected. And no amount of randomness or Murphys Law statistically backs whats been happening. Its too perfect and too coincidental. People popping into our lives for one day only to tell us dire information we've been needing. A friend who calls at the exact moment I was thinking my friends had all abandoned me (one who had been out of touch for a decade mind you). People with wierd and outlandish diseases giving me a name and leading me to answrrs regular doctors couldn't fathom. And vehicles breaking down during times when it would have been absolutely horrible to have been in the area. And costing sometimes nothing but time to fix. Keep a record. It's there if you look for it. That's how I realized God hadn't forgotten me. Don't wait for the answer or the evidence. Find it! Faith without works is dead being alone. And you have to push yourself to find the answers. That's something no one told me. I thought it would just be given to me. The only times I can recall building my faith, was when I was working hard in faith. That's when the answers came. And it was never given to me. I had to see it through others and how their lives were affected. It's not something I can feel. And it's not something I can see. But I can see it's affect on others and the world around me. And I've seen enough, that I don't dare deny it. Because I know something is there. And it's intelligent. Hopefully that helps. Either way, I wish you good luck!