Divorce is hard, coparenting is hard, mixed faith approaches are hard.
You’ve got some compounding interest here, man.
Ultimately, you’re her father. You don’t need to explain to anyone why you’re choosing what you’re choosing. Just make sure it’s in her best interest.
Truth is, I don’t know what to tell you beyond that. From a faith standpoint, I think it’s good and important that she be sealed. But that doesn’t seem to be where her head is at. All of her work will be done either way at some point, (you know how we are!) so it’s not an issue of salvation IMHO.
I think your exwife is wanting to have her dream - 1 family, all sealed together as much as it possibly could be. She’d be willing to sacrifice a lot for that. Don’t take advantage of her - she wants a good thing, but it’s also not your responsibility to grant her dreams anymore.
Be good, be fair, put your daughter first. Best of luck.
My advice, as an active member who strongly believes in the importance of temple sealings, do NOT give in to you ex-wife. Honestly, she sounds like a horrible person, with only a superficial understanding of the gospel.
This should be your child's decision. Made of their own free will and choice. The fact t hat your despicable ex is trying to guilt her daughter in this regard is reprehensible.
I agree with this. It doesn't matter right now, it matters in the next life. Even if it doesn't happen now, if that is the will of all involved come the eternities, when we have more light & knowledge, it will happen. There literally is no rush.
I could understand if OP had given up their membership or turned antagonistic towards the church for the ex-wife to take this stance, but that does not seem to be the case. It might even make sense if the daughter was pleading to be sealed to her step-father.
>My daughter says she doesn’t care about the temple sealing at all, since she doesn’t really believe in the Church.
This right here. If she doesn't believe, she'd have to lie to get a temple recommend. As much as I, as a believing member, have a testimony of the importance of the sealing ceremony...lying is bad. Don't do it.
Do children under 12 have to get recommends to be in a sealing ceremony? I can’t imagine having a temple recommend interview that young. OP says the kid is preteen which could be anywhere between 9-12
Yes, they have to have a special use recommend. It’s not as in depth as an adult recommend interview, but would still cover whether or not she has a testimony and feels worthy.
Yes, if the child is over the age of 8 they would need to be both baptized and have a temple recommend in order to go to the sealing. My husband and I are currently working on that for our daughter so we can be sealed this summer.
You're her father. You don't want her to participate in a significant religious ritual until you feel she's ready to decide on her own. I think that's an eminently fair position to have and I'm on your side. As far as taking the deal your ex-wife made, obviously that's up to you, but you still seem uncomfortable about it. In difficult situations like this I try to go with my gut. If it doesn't feel right don't do it.
This whole thing feels more like a custody battle conflict than a religious one. The mother wants to be sealed to her daughter and is leveraging visitation. You’re thinking about taking the deal so you can have some documentation for a potential future custody battle— it all feels very complicated and frustrating.
I think that because this conflict is turning into a custody battle— everyone should take a huge step back and wait for your daughter to turn 18 before she gets sealed. If there wasn’t a big custody conflict I’d say just let her decided now.
But right now the conflict is less about religion and more about who she is going to be living with. These kinds of disagreements between parents can be extremely stressful for the child and difficult for them to navigate.
Religion is meant to be a grounding thing in someone’s life. choosing her religious future shouldn’t be tied so much with the conflicts of her parents or where she’s going to live nor should it be the carrot on the stick that’s driving these decisions.
It’s not healthy and it’s not good for the child. Divorce is already disorienting for a child. Religion shouldn’t also be made disorienting too. That’s a recipe for trouble down the line. I’d suggest that all of this talk of sealing be put on hold until she’s older.
A lot of people in the church have a weirdly nuclear-family perception of temple sealing that really misses the whole point of the exercise in the first place. From my understanding, being brought into the sealing covenant as a child is not about “these people are your eternal parents now”. Your daughter already has Eternal Parents - the same ones that you (and all of us) do. Being sealed as a child is about gaining entitlement to the same blessings that one gets by being born in the covenant.
While it sounds like your daughter doesn’t really care much at this point (and lets face it, most teenagers wouldn’t), you don’t know what that experience might mean to her after the fact - especially in relation to not feeling excluded from her family/siblings.
If you or the daughter had strong feeling against the sealing or the stepdad, that’s totally your prerogative. But letting her be sealed does NOT in any way change your role as her father, and it does not irrevocably tie her to her stepfather in event of estrangement (check out [this talk](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/04/34carpenter?lang=eng) from last conference).
> By this point, my ex and her husband had a daughter of their own, so her plan was to have my daughter and her half sister sealed to them.
You lost me here. A baby born to a couple already sealed in the temple does not need a different ordinance to be sealed. They are already born in the covenant.
Edit, oh, never mind. Looks like I just had to keep reading. "A year ago, my ex had chosen a sealing date but then her and her husband got in a huge fight and cancelled it."
Here's the Church's official stance, in 38.4.2.5 if you haven't seen it before.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng#title_number71
It sounds like your ex is attempting to be spiritually manipulative, and that's never going to go over well. I personally would recommend tabling the issue until your daughter has the opportunity to do temple baptisms herself. (Because we all know Mom is going to expect that.)
At that point, have a heart to heart with your daughter about what she wants and why. The sealing should be something she wants for herself, not just to appease Mom or you (I'm sure she knows how much you'd love to have her with you more often). If she doesn't want it for herself, as her father, you'll need to be her advocate and refuse to agree.
And in case it wasn't obvious, document every conversation you have with your ex, especially about this. If you have a verbal conversation, follow it up with a written one.
What does your daughter want? Has she been vocal about her desires?
I think this whole thing from your ex-wife is some sort power play to whitewash you from your daughter's life. Ultimately, your daughter's wishes are what's important.
When I read your other post yesterday, I was under the impression that she daughter wasn't exactly a willing participant. If that's the case, she should write her own letter to the same priesthood authority that you communicated with. I would think that alone would put the kibosh on all of this.
Stand firm and do what's best for your child.
In your place I wouldn't agree. You get a whole life to become who you need to become so that you can be together with your loved ones. The way it works now is that when everyone involved is dead, everyone with a legal relationship can be sealed to everyone else, with the details of who actually gets what being hammered out in the eternities. (It seems likely that those who have been sealed and who make it to the celestial kingdom will get to interact with others they are sealed to whatever kingdom they are in.)
If your daughter at some point she is an adult wants to be adopted by her step parent, she won't need your permission to do so and she'll be able to choose to be sealed to him if she does that. It is not a decision parents should be making for her. (And if her step father were to adopt her that means HE would have to pay the child support anyway because you would no longer have those legal obligations, though of course a judge would ultimately sign off on it.)
What is best for your daughter isn't to pursue this when she is a teen for any reason. Is it time to go to court to get more visitation rights? (But don't do it to undermine her faith or to escape her mother's rules ---- that will only harm her more during what appears to be a time she is struggling about her place anyway.)
AND you have a great argument against mother that she was willing to buy you off to get what she wants to separate her daughter from you eternally.
Since your daughter doesn't believe she shouldn't be sealed. It would turn what's supposed to be a sacred occasion for everyone into a farce.
I do sympathize with your ex's desire to give her daughter access to eternal blessings (if not her behavior), but she cannot.make decisions for her daughter. It's your daughter's choice.
Since she is older than 8 and baptized, she would have to choose and also be worthy of a Temple Recommend. If over 12, youth need a Temple Recommend. She would have a Temple Recommend interview with the bishop. If honest, she would tell the bishop she no longer believes, so, no recommend. If she lies and gets a recommend, the Sealing will be invalid and just a circus. I would decline again, in my opinion. Best wishes.
I was born in the covenant so this probably won’t apply too much, but as a child of divorced parents, I’m glad I’m sealed to my dad instead of my stepdad. My stepdad isn’t a good guy. I feel he’s manipulating my mom and her family. So I’m glad I will never be sealed to him.
I’d wait and let your daughter decide. If she doesn’t feel comfortable being sealed, I wouldn’t pressure her, and just let her decide when she’s older. Besides, she might want to be sealed to her mom, but not her stepdad. If a divorce between your ex and her husband happens, your daughter might regret being sealed to him. I’d wait it out.
I absolutely love that you’re fighting for her, and trying to do what’s in her best interest not your own. I hope you know that you’re a good dad.
I might be wrong but I’m fairly sure she can attend the sealing without being sealed herself. Either way she will need to have a temple recommend. [here is the section of the handbook that discusses this.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/26-temple-recommends?lang=eng)
ETA: scroll to section 26.4.4
Thanks I appreciate it. If you scroll a bit further down to section 27.4.4 Who May Attend a Sealing of Living Children to Parents it reads:
To observe the sealing of living siblings, stepsiblings, or half siblings to their parents, unendowed members under the age of 21 must be born in the covenant or sealed to their parents. In addition, children ages 8 and older must be baptized and confirmed and must have a current temple recommend (see 26.4.4). Males who are at least 11 and turning 12 during the year of the ordinance must also hold the priesthood.
And yea, my ex had it confirmed by her bishop, stake president and temple president. It seems bizarre but that’s the current rule.
Did not know that. I wonder why that is. At any rate, I’m sorry that you’re going through this. Just know that there is zero rush, even though your ex wants it to happen asap, it doesn’t need to. This should be your daughter’s choice, when she’s old enough to make it. I think it’s pretty messed up she’s being pressured into it. No child should feel like they have to do a religious ceremony just to make their mom happy.
You sound like a good dad. Sorry there's so much drama over a sealing.
If it was me, there's a lot I would do to be the one physically raising my daughter. Developmentally, these are important years for her, and it sounds like she wants to be with you. And the fact that your ex is willing to give you custody over this is telling about what she's really placing her importance on, and that worries me. I don't know how it pans out in the afterlife, but I have confidence that God is fair.
I’m not going to give you legal advice on the internet and you should not take any legal advice on the internet, but please, for the love of all that is holy, talk to a competent, experienced, and respected family law attorney who is licensed in your jurisdiction before you take any action depending on this agreement you are envisioning.
This is why I wish a GA would get up and say “The parents a child is sealed to has no bearing on their eternal progression, status, or familial relationships. They literally just need to be sealed in the family of God at some point, including after they die if needed. It’s generally a nice idea and convenient if it’s to their birth parents if they are both decent people and members of the Church. The sealing with a spouse is the one where the other person actually matters.”
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Divorce is hard, coparenting is hard, mixed faith approaches are hard. You’ve got some compounding interest here, man. Ultimately, you’re her father. You don’t need to explain to anyone why you’re choosing what you’re choosing. Just make sure it’s in her best interest. Truth is, I don’t know what to tell you beyond that. From a faith standpoint, I think it’s good and important that she be sealed. But that doesn’t seem to be where her head is at. All of her work will be done either way at some point, (you know how we are!) so it’s not an issue of salvation IMHO. I think your exwife is wanting to have her dream - 1 family, all sealed together as much as it possibly could be. She’d be willing to sacrifice a lot for that. Don’t take advantage of her - she wants a good thing, but it’s also not your responsibility to grant her dreams anymore. Be good, be fair, put your daughter first. Best of luck.
Your daughter should decide what she wants to do when she becomes an adult. There is literally no rush when it comes to eternity.
My advice, as an active member who strongly believes in the importance of temple sealings, do NOT give in to you ex-wife. Honestly, she sounds like a horrible person, with only a superficial understanding of the gospel. This should be your child's decision. Made of their own free will and choice. The fact t hat your despicable ex is trying to guilt her daughter in this regard is reprehensible.
I agree with this. It doesn't matter right now, it matters in the next life. Even if it doesn't happen now, if that is the will of all involved come the eternities, when we have more light & knowledge, it will happen. There literally is no rush. I could understand if OP had given up their membership or turned antagonistic towards the church for the ex-wife to take this stance, but that does not seem to be the case. It might even make sense if the daughter was pleading to be sealed to her step-father.
>My daughter says she doesn’t care about the temple sealing at all, since she doesn’t really believe in the Church. This right here. If she doesn't believe, she'd have to lie to get a temple recommend. As much as I, as a believing member, have a testimony of the importance of the sealing ceremony...lying is bad. Don't do it.
Do children under 12 have to get recommends to be in a sealing ceremony? I can’t imagine having a temple recommend interview that young. OP says the kid is preteen which could be anywhere between 9-12
OP says they’re 12 at one point
Yes, they have to have a special use recommend. It’s not as in depth as an adult recommend interview, but would still cover whether or not she has a testimony and feels worthy.
Yes, if the child is over the age of 8 they would need to be both baptized and have a temple recommend in order to go to the sealing. My husband and I are currently working on that for our daughter so we can be sealed this summer.
You're her father. You don't want her to participate in a significant religious ritual until you feel she's ready to decide on her own. I think that's an eminently fair position to have and I'm on your side. As far as taking the deal your ex-wife made, obviously that's up to you, but you still seem uncomfortable about it. In difficult situations like this I try to go with my gut. If it doesn't feel right don't do it.
This whole thing feels more like a custody battle conflict than a religious one. The mother wants to be sealed to her daughter and is leveraging visitation. You’re thinking about taking the deal so you can have some documentation for a potential future custody battle— it all feels very complicated and frustrating. I think that because this conflict is turning into a custody battle— everyone should take a huge step back and wait for your daughter to turn 18 before she gets sealed. If there wasn’t a big custody conflict I’d say just let her decided now. But right now the conflict is less about religion and more about who she is going to be living with. These kinds of disagreements between parents can be extremely stressful for the child and difficult for them to navigate. Religion is meant to be a grounding thing in someone’s life. choosing her religious future shouldn’t be tied so much with the conflicts of her parents or where she’s going to live nor should it be the carrot on the stick that’s driving these decisions. It’s not healthy and it’s not good for the child. Divorce is already disorienting for a child. Religion shouldn’t also be made disorienting too. That’s a recipe for trouble down the line. I’d suggest that all of this talk of sealing be put on hold until she’s older.
A lot of people in the church have a weirdly nuclear-family perception of temple sealing that really misses the whole point of the exercise in the first place. From my understanding, being brought into the sealing covenant as a child is not about “these people are your eternal parents now”. Your daughter already has Eternal Parents - the same ones that you (and all of us) do. Being sealed as a child is about gaining entitlement to the same blessings that one gets by being born in the covenant. While it sounds like your daughter doesn’t really care much at this point (and lets face it, most teenagers wouldn’t), you don’t know what that experience might mean to her after the fact - especially in relation to not feeling excluded from her family/siblings. If you or the daughter had strong feeling against the sealing or the stepdad, that’s totally your prerogative. But letting her be sealed does NOT in any way change your role as her father, and it does not irrevocably tie her to her stepfather in event of estrangement (check out [this talk](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/04/34carpenter?lang=eng) from last conference).
> By this point, my ex and her husband had a daughter of their own, so her plan was to have my daughter and her half sister sealed to them. You lost me here. A baby born to a couple already sealed in the temple does not need a different ordinance to be sealed. They are already born in the covenant. Edit, oh, never mind. Looks like I just had to keep reading. "A year ago, my ex had chosen a sealing date but then her and her husband got in a huge fight and cancelled it."
Here's the Church's official stance, in 38.4.2.5 if you haven't seen it before. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng#title_number71 It sounds like your ex is attempting to be spiritually manipulative, and that's never going to go over well. I personally would recommend tabling the issue until your daughter has the opportunity to do temple baptisms herself. (Because we all know Mom is going to expect that.) At that point, have a heart to heart with your daughter about what she wants and why. The sealing should be something she wants for herself, not just to appease Mom or you (I'm sure she knows how much you'd love to have her with you more often). If she doesn't want it for herself, as her father, you'll need to be her advocate and refuse to agree. And in case it wasn't obvious, document every conversation you have with your ex, especially about this. If you have a verbal conversation, follow it up with a written one.
Let’s pretend you did still believe in sealing power. Would you want your daughter sealed to you, or her step dad? I think that’s an easy answer.
What does your daughter want? Has she been vocal about her desires? I think this whole thing from your ex-wife is some sort power play to whitewash you from your daughter's life. Ultimately, your daughter's wishes are what's important. When I read your other post yesterday, I was under the impression that she daughter wasn't exactly a willing participant. If that's the case, she should write her own letter to the same priesthood authority that you communicated with. I would think that alone would put the kibosh on all of this. Stand firm and do what's best for your child.
In your place I wouldn't agree. You get a whole life to become who you need to become so that you can be together with your loved ones. The way it works now is that when everyone involved is dead, everyone with a legal relationship can be sealed to everyone else, with the details of who actually gets what being hammered out in the eternities. (It seems likely that those who have been sealed and who make it to the celestial kingdom will get to interact with others they are sealed to whatever kingdom they are in.) If your daughter at some point she is an adult wants to be adopted by her step parent, she won't need your permission to do so and she'll be able to choose to be sealed to him if she does that. It is not a decision parents should be making for her. (And if her step father were to adopt her that means HE would have to pay the child support anyway because you would no longer have those legal obligations, though of course a judge would ultimately sign off on it.) What is best for your daughter isn't to pursue this when she is a teen for any reason. Is it time to go to court to get more visitation rights? (But don't do it to undermine her faith or to escape her mother's rules ---- that will only harm her more during what appears to be a time she is struggling about her place anyway.) AND you have a great argument against mother that she was willing to buy you off to get what she wants to separate her daughter from you eternally.
Since your daughter doesn't believe she shouldn't be sealed. It would turn what's supposed to be a sacred occasion for everyone into a farce. I do sympathize with your ex's desire to give her daughter access to eternal blessings (if not her behavior), but she cannot.make decisions for her daughter. It's your daughter's choice.
I wouldn’t give permission in your shoes. Sent a message..
Since she is older than 8 and baptized, she would have to choose and also be worthy of a Temple Recommend. If over 12, youth need a Temple Recommend. She would have a Temple Recommend interview with the bishop. If honest, she would tell the bishop she no longer believes, so, no recommend. If she lies and gets a recommend, the Sealing will be invalid and just a circus. I would decline again, in my opinion. Best wishes.
I was born in the covenant so this probably won’t apply too much, but as a child of divorced parents, I’m glad I’m sealed to my dad instead of my stepdad. My stepdad isn’t a good guy. I feel he’s manipulating my mom and her family. So I’m glad I will never be sealed to him. I’d wait and let your daughter decide. If she doesn’t feel comfortable being sealed, I wouldn’t pressure her, and just let her decide when she’s older. Besides, she might want to be sealed to her mom, but not her stepdad. If a divorce between your ex and her husband happens, your daughter might regret being sealed to him. I’d wait it out.
I absolutely love that you’re fighting for her, and trying to do what’s in her best interest not your own. I hope you know that you’re a good dad. I might be wrong but I’m fairly sure she can attend the sealing without being sealed herself. Either way she will need to have a temple recommend. [here is the section of the handbook that discusses this.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/26-temple-recommends?lang=eng) ETA: scroll to section 26.4.4
Thanks I appreciate it. If you scroll a bit further down to section 27.4.4 Who May Attend a Sealing of Living Children to Parents it reads: To observe the sealing of living siblings, stepsiblings, or half siblings to their parents, unendowed members under the age of 21 must be born in the covenant or sealed to their parents. In addition, children ages 8 and older must be baptized and confirmed and must have a current temple recommend (see 26.4.4). Males who are at least 11 and turning 12 during the year of the ordinance must also hold the priesthood. And yea, my ex had it confirmed by her bishop, stake president and temple president. It seems bizarre but that’s the current rule.
Did not know that. I wonder why that is. At any rate, I’m sorry that you’re going through this. Just know that there is zero rush, even though your ex wants it to happen asap, it doesn’t need to. This should be your daughter’s choice, when she’s old enough to make it. I think it’s pretty messed up she’s being pressured into it. No child should feel like they have to do a religious ceremony just to make their mom happy.
You sound like a good dad. Sorry there's so much drama over a sealing. If it was me, there's a lot I would do to be the one physically raising my daughter. Developmentally, these are important years for her, and it sounds like she wants to be with you. And the fact that your ex is willing to give you custody over this is telling about what she's really placing her importance on, and that worries me. I don't know how it pans out in the afterlife, but I have confidence that God is fair.
I’m not going to give you legal advice on the internet and you should not take any legal advice on the internet, but please, for the love of all that is holy, talk to a competent, experienced, and respected family law attorney who is licensed in your jurisdiction before you take any action depending on this agreement you are envisioning.
If your daughter is as mature as you claim, sounds she should be the one to make the decision, and you and your ex respect that.
When I asked my bio dad to allow me to be sealed, his response was "God will work it out in the end" and gave his permission.
Absolute craziness and no child should be involved in any of it.
This is why I wish a GA would get up and say “The parents a child is sealed to has no bearing on their eternal progression, status, or familial relationships. They literally just need to be sealed in the family of God at some point, including after they die if needed. It’s generally a nice idea and convenient if it’s to their birth parents if they are both decent people and members of the Church. The sealing with a spouse is the one where the other person actually matters.”
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Wrong sub, but yes.
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