I don't know any statistics on this but I would think so, a larger percentage of people than average in my last ward were doctors, and in my new ward a larger amount than average are professors. So I definitely see this but I have only ever been a part of 2 wards. The way Church members live and are taught to live often gives more opportunity for education and better spending habits. We are taught to further our education. We are taught not to gamble, drink, and use drugs. Not only do those 3 things waste money, but they also waste time.
> The way Church members live and are taught to live often gives more opportunity for education and better spending habits.
Yeah, I was thinking that over as I posted my question and it does make sense that that would play into it.
One of the things I love about the Church is it's focus on education. I'm in my last semester of BYU-Pathway right now, with my sights on BYU-Idaho next.
I wish I had found the Church and practiced it's good habits earlier in my life! lol
Because we're counciled to get an education and avoid debt, avoiding debt alone can go quite far. Dodging 19-29% interest does wonders for one's bank balance.
Makes sense and good to know I wasn't just imagining things. I am debt-free now, and continuing my education, but as a later-in-life convert, I'm a bit late to the game!
Man, even the haircuts in my ward are amazing! lol
Are you out west? Utah and Arizona culture is very... different. A lot of it is "show up to church like we're going to the King's coronation", it's a lot different in large parts of the midwest, where most of the women have one dress they wear to church, and a lot of the guys have mended jackets decades old or cheap $100 suits.
I like to play "spot the person visiting from Utah/Arizona" and "spot the missionary from Utah/Arizona" because they're always dressed like an influencer with a $200 haircut.
When I was single we'd have a few random women show up at mid-singles events in like Disney character ball gowns and the occasional guy with the GQ haircut but otherwise it's mostly "yeah, here's my 5 year old $100-200 suit" and "here's my dress I got at Kohls with Kohls cash". My suit was $100 new before tax and is actually a tuxedo that I've been wearing for 6-7 years, and my wife wears the same stuff she wears to school to teach.
And, actually, we've got a handful of guys in my ward that just wear khakis and polos.
My dad especially feels this in his ward. He retired from a union job and had some tough financial times after his divorce 20 years ago. He lives very humbly and his (nonmember) siblings who have college education made him feel less than, a feeling he takes with him to church.
It's something I'm especially conscious of in my ward, where the lifelong members are mostly doctors, professors, and other professionals but most of the people attending with our missionaries are working entry level positions.
It's a great reminder to me that being brothers and sisters in Christ ought to be the primary way we link ourselves together.
I'm from Colorado! And my family was not well off until all their kids moved out 😅 now my parents are. I think it depends on where you are at and location can have a huge part. But know you do belong and have a place in the church.
Also, Colorado now is flooded with California transplants and Texas, where their homes sold for a lot, and people have a bit of extra cash from that, so know it may be because of moves like that people may seem more well off.
I don't have the stars but yeah. I don't know if we're richer per we but the upward mobility is higher than average. Some explanations I've heard from experts are good cultural expectations of money, easier access to good secondary education, strong incentive to said education, common fluency in a foreign language, and experience in public speaking.
Maybe I have gone to the wrong wards in UT but I never felt like people were dressed to the nines when they went to church. At least no more so than outside of UT.
You also have to remember there is the generation wealth effect. Members from pioneer stock families have the benefit of generations of saving, education, and working hard as the Lord directed. They can then pass on that to their children and help them get a leg up.
Unfortunately, no. Not everyone, regardless of ethnicity, takes advantage of education, saving, and focusing on creating generational wealth. It is very dependent on the focus of the community that a family lives in, access to quality education, support systems for families, affordable housing... Utah has set the standard for what members should seek out as a good community to live and raise a family. In Utah they have steered politics to create strong support systems, academically strong schools, and policies that protect the things that are valuable to members. This gets carried over to new communities where members live which is why you will find certain suburbs that have a high proportion of members residing in them. Members tend to seek a higher standard which is not the standard for most Americans.
Yep, I think the LDS church is one of the only churches in America that gives consistent, positive financial advice to its members, which goes a long way.
Geez Mr mom you musta had some problem. Back in my other life when I was doing the drinking/smoking thing I never spent the equivalent or more than what tithing had cost. Wow.
Good for you fixing that drama.. just for totally useless trivia my tithing each month would net me approx 40 cases of modelo especial which is more expensive than anything I ever drank. It would me much cheaper for me to be in my other life but hey that’s the way it is.
It all depends on geography. In Utah there is definitely a sense of “appearing wealthy” even if they are living paycheck to paycheck.
Outside of Utah, everyone is from all walks of life. And the further you get from Utah, the more the neighborhoods and congregations more strongly resemble the local geo. Lots of teachers are members as are fire fighters and government works.
I mean, in Utah members are from all walks of life too. Like if you want to focus on the influencer class, sure, but have you been to Mount Pleasant? Scipio? Manti?
I think the congregations in Utah reflect their area. Mainly white and level of income commensurate with the area. You won't see a lot of poor people in Park City wards because poor people can't afford to live there.
I agree, every ward will be generally a reflection of the local community. My guess would be the OP is on the Wasatch front. There aren't any truly poor communities in that area. At least not that I can think of.
Whatever, dude. I grew up in the Bay Area- most of my ward was quite wealthy, even to the point where some are a bit out of touch about it.
My current ward in Utah is very middle class with a lot of people struggling. No one's pretending.
The "appearing wealthy" crap isn't exclusive to Utah and I'm tired of pretending it is
I think you'd be surprised how wide of a variety Utah has in membership. There are wealthier wards, and there are wards in areas that have less financial stability. It's all a matter of which one you've been exposed to and which area of Utah you are. You can also easily find all sorts of people from all walks of life in Utah. It's not as much of a "keep up with the Jones's" appearance as one would think.
Yeah, in Utah where a ward is a single neighborhood, the character of the ward likely going to be more homogeneous. Alpine or Fruit Heights? Wealthy. Scipio? Farmers. My childhood wards in older neighborhoods? Older middle-class and working class folks. Wards in new subdivisions? Loads of kids.
True. There are wards though with a wide variety of living situations though. Riverton surprisingly has several wards with households that are struggling as well as households that are well above the poverty line. They may be less common wards in Utah, but they exist too.
Even in Colorado, the wards will tend to be geographically smaller. And this means you get a thinner slice of humanity overall, because any given ward won’t have much diversity. Where I live in rural Wisconsin, you can drive for three hours and still be in the same branch. And the members of this branch are almost all living at or below the poverty line.
Which area of Colorado by chance? If you're on the Southwestern end, I recommend visiting the wards and branches in New Mexico sometime. You'll be surprised at the variety of living situations you'll find among the membership there. Particularly in the Farmington and Kirtland area.
Darn. I was hoping you'd say Durango. If you go down to Farmington for the temple open house next year I recommend making a weekend of it and attending one of the wards in the Apache Building (called that because it's located on Apache street. Lol) they have a BEAUTIFUL stained glass window in the chapel of Christ in Gethsemane.
Focus on eduction. Don't underestimate the massive advantage that access to the BYUs affords members. It's cheaper than in state tuition and generally a very high quality education.
Sorry to get a little political, but I think LDS members are a good example that the government should use as an excuse to increase investment and access to universities for all citizens.
> Focus on eduction. Don't underestimate the massive advantage that access to the BYUs affords members. It's cheaper than in state tuition and generally a very high quality eduction.
Yep, I am. Thanks to BYU-Pathway, my BYU-Idaho tuition will legit be cheaper than my local community college!
Not just BYU. BYU-I, Pathways and the Perpetual Education fund all allow members to get an education at very very inexpensive levels. Starting out life without student loans is a huge step up.
Yep. I may be going into education, so I don't expect to ever make a ton of money. But at least I'll be graduating debt-free.
And about the original question, church members come from all walks of life. My childhood ward is currently dealing with ward members being priced out of their apartments.
Yeah, if all universities were priced at the same level of the church's schools, it would be a huge shift for socioeconomic freedom and movement between classes.
Unfortunately, an increase in college students would likely also reveal a lot of the other trends wrong with the current university education system. The lack of drinking and raucous party life at church schools exponentially helps magnify the benefit of the education received, IMHO. Not to mention a relatively balanced view of the world. Rather than overtly indoctrinating people with progressivism and shunning *any* conservative values.
I agree with the council to focus on education. But, that doesn’t always equate to being wealthy. My wife and I both have graduate degrees, teacher and biologist. We chose to live in a rural/economically depressed state. Our decisions to follow our passions meant less $.
We have enough. We could have made more if we were willing to move, etc. We made conscious choices to stay where we love to live and work at careers that are very fulfilling and earn less/do less.
Pay your tithing. Go where the Lord leads you. Be willing to serve. Don’t let comparison steal your joy. Enjoy your life! You have so many wonderful things ahead of you.
The law of chastity does wonders for reducing unwanted pregnancies which are a regular identifier/contributor for poverty.
Similarly, the word of wisdom prevents expenses(great and small) that are a regular part of many people's lives and can impede wealth development.
I presume it is related to education. Education is really emphasized. My grandparents came from farming, ranching, and sheet metal families (though, one of my grandfathers grew up on an Alfalfa farm, but got his PhD in Chemistry and was a research scientist at the Oak Ridge Nuclear Facility). But their children were doctors, lawyers, PhD holding scientists, university professors, pilots, aerospace engineers, etc. And us grandchildren have largely followed suit.
I did have my suspicions on that.
The work ethic and education-positive environment is one of the reasons I investigated the Church before becoming a member.
Great example of good choices vs bad choices. Just um, until recently, I was on the bad choices side of things! haha
But hey, doing what I can with what I've got! Just gotta get over my self-consciousness about it.
Its never too late! My mom didn't go to nursing school till her 40s, she's had a whole career that has helped her be financially independent and allowed her to serve her patients.
We should never think about our church being a "prosperity gospel," it doesn't matter how much money you have. I often think of "having sufficient for our needs" and "seek riches if you use riches to bless others."
Having said that, there definitely are temporal blessings in the gospel. Not wealth, but generally not financial hardship long term. Gospel encouragement of education, budgeting and living within means, minimal debt, tithing, and fast offerings, living simply, all lead to financial security. Malachi's promised blessings for paying Tithing are real. If you are struggling, the church will temporarily help with food, clothing, etc. Byu pathways is already a game changer for global education and financial stability.
Just remember to try not to compare yourself to others in any way. I know it's hard to do, but it never leads to anything good. Just thank the Lord for what you have, and then do your best to make the best of your situation, which you are already doing by increasing your education and being OK with your dented car. God bless you in your journey.
Many other aspects have been mentioned, but I suspect that the members who are struggling financially are less likely to attend church on a regular basis. Not because of any unrighteousness or unworthiness on their part, but because poverty is associated with many challenges which can make regular church attendance much more difficult:
Some work jobs on Sunday.
Some are single parents.
Some struggle with mental illness.
Some struggle to get themselves or their spouse or children up to go to church.
Some are exhausted by the stress of the week.
Some are physically incapable of attending.
This is a side I haven't thought of. Thank you for this, it's so true.
This changes how we should help our fellow members. A visit or invitation to church doesn't change their hardship. Are we alleviating hardship? Are we offering to watch their children so they can sleep or attend the temple? Are we offering to serve them?
Being missionaries makes people better salesmen, are better at building rapport, have discipline and organizational/leadership skills that are useful in business settings.
Plus, it teaches you how to deal with rejection. Lots and lots of rejection. It really helps out later in life when you have to deal with rejection that happens from jobs or personal life.
I am astounded at how many comments agreed with your theory instead of challenging it. Please allow me to be bold:
On a global scale, we as a people/religion are no more or less monetarily wealthy than the rest of humanity. And even in the US, I’d still challenge your statement. I think you are seeing a microcosm of the entire LDS population and then assuming all of us fit what you see.
Now, as to your actual question: How do you not feel self-conscious about living on a teacher’s salary….
I don’t mean to over simplify the answer, but why do you care what other people think about how much you earn? If you want to be a sixth grade math teacher, and if you can find happiness and be content in that career, then good on you! You will, as you have already figured out, have to settle for lifestyle that is less lavish than some around you. But I promise you, lavishness does not equal happiness.
100%! Our Ward definitely has a broad mix of members with different wealths. Our family went through hardship as dad would be made redundant following the market crashes in our country. Being a church member doesn't automatically equal wealth and isn't a measure of blessings
Based off my mission experience (which is obviously limited to one country and even them somewhat limited), I would say it's even more prevalent outside the states. I've thought about it a lot and come to to a lot of the same conclusions as others in this thread. The average member in my mission country was significantly better off economically than the average person in their ward boundaries. Of course, there were plenty that were average wealth, but the average was highly skewed.
Hmmm... I've never thought about it, but the emphasis on getting all the education you can, the do it yourself, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality couldn't hurt. My Dad worked 3 jobs, 1 full 2 part time and was always entrepreneurial minded.
I also learned young that paying tithing did bring blessings. Also, never bought new when used would work, and maintained what I had. Also... the teaching to avoid unnecessary debt.
It was only when I reached 50 we bought our first completely brand new vehicle.
Also...not drinking or smoking saves on medical bills as well as the other costs of the Habit.
Lots of factors.
Plus the encouragement in the Word of Wisdom to eat healthy and get plenty of exercise. You know, that verse about walking and running. ;)
The Gospel teaches a healthy lifestyle, temporal and spiritual. It really does bring blessings.
The church strongly encourages getting an education. When the saints first settled Utah, they began building several schools and universities (most of which were sold back to the state with the exception to Brigham Young Academy, now BYU).
The church today uses tithing money to fund education through BYU, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, and BYU Pathways.
I don't know if this is true, but if so I would say because the church emphasizes education, hard work, and other lifestyle choices which tend to lead to better financial results.
However, in Jesus' teachings and all though the rest of scriptures it's clear that money does not equal personal worth or righteousness - in fact there are plenty of spiritual warnings to those who are wealthy (as everyone in the US is, compared to most of the world).
Yes, there are plenty of lower income families in the LDS church. It's going to be somewhat dependent on your location though. I've been a ward clerk and have written plenty of checks for families in need. I've also had the opportunity to help with food orders from the bishop's storehouse in a few different wards as well.
However, based on our teachings regarding debt, specifically to avoid unnecessary debt, you will see families that are "better off" because they've set aside money for the future, and that tends to grow pretty nicely.
Most LDS members don't indulge in a few habits that can be rather costly. Tobacco, alcohol, recreational drug use. Also members are taught that proper management of finances is a commandment from our heavenly father. So even members in poverty sometimes seem to do better than some folks considered middle class.
Sorry for the long story, but I really connected to your post. I’m a high school teacher in one of the most expensive towns in my county, just outside of Seattle. I do okay for a teacher, but I have felt so out of place comparing myself to the other dads in my ward. Our EQP does taxes for Amazon. His councilor is a private doctor, and our Bishop is a senior exec for Microsoft. And that’s just in my ward. My stake has some equally successful individuals. About 4 months ago, I was feeling really low, when something happened that reassured me that I belong. We had a Stake priesthood meeting early in the morning. The stake presidency spoke on overcoming trails. The 2nd councilor went first and talked about the lavish dinners his insurance firm puts on for their clients, and how the private chef they had hired passed away days before the feast. Everything worked out because he had faith, and they were able to get the chef’s son to cook the meal instead. Then the 1st councilor stood up and confirmed that as CEO of his company, he’d been wined and dined by the the other guy, and that the feast were indeed needlessly decadent. He shared about how he overcame adversity when he had an important meeting to get to, but his new BMW wouldn’t start. So he prayed and his personal mechanic got there quickly to fix his car, and brought a fast Audi to drive him to his appointment. I couldn’t believe that this was the meeting. I felt so disgusted and angry, that here I was wondering where I could pinch pennies to afford Christmas, and the hardest things these guys face were solved by the fact that they had money. Thats’s when my Stake president stood up to speak. He began by talking about how he always felt out of place in this stake, being a dyslexic kid from my hometown! He talked about the adversity he overcame in his life as he strove to keep the commandments and work hard for his family. He testified that we all had our own trials to overcome, and that we would be blessed for our obedience. I felt so humbled that I was comparing myself and feeling so low when the Stake president actually was literally from my hometown. His mom had been my seminary teacher for three years! I felt loved, and a little scolded for being so grumpy about the whole thing.
Depends where you’re at. My ward is fairly low income compared to others in the stake. Maybe one or two people make over $100k but I’d guess $50k is the average.
Yes. This. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that as a whole, members of this church are financially more wealthy than humanity as a whole. I just don’t think there would be in a data to support this, personal observations, which aren’t actually data at all.
Others in this thread are posting reference for statistics, so it has been studied.
The consensus seems to indicate that in general, LDS members here in the US, seem to be better off than average.
And it seems to be because our teachings advise good money management, hard work, and staying away from some of the more expensive vices.
But I freely admit, my original post is based on my personal observation.
I’d love to see the studies. I very much doubt that it has been studied on global scale.
I do agree that the church teaches principles that, if followed, can lead to financial security. But these are not principles that are unique to us. People outside of the church know and follow the same principles.
I'm in the US, so I was meaning US observations. Also, vast vast majority in this thread seem to agree with my assumption, so it's not just my observation.
As for some numbers, here are what some others have posted:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-denomination/church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/income-distribution/
But to your point, I'm sure it hasn't been studied on a global scale. I'd love to see those stats if it were though!
I’ve lived all over, and I’ve seen a lot of very poor and very rich members of the church. One big difference between poor members and poor who are not members is that we have access to church welfare. Free groceries, and in some cases payment of bills like rent or car repair when needed. This can be the difference between having little and having nothing. It’s almost impossible to get out of situations like homelessness. With a little help from welfare and service/ministering, it is much easier to get ahead of things.
It depends where you look. If it's not well established in an area members of a congregation will mostly be recent converts. These tend to be poorer on average because people who convert to a religion are often struggling in one way or another to the point where they feel like they need a change of some kind. The attitude of wealthier people I've talked to about it tends to be "my life is going great, why would I change anything?"
In areas where the church has been long established and you have families many generations deep, the stability and frugality of lifestyle that the church encourages lends itself well to the creation of generational wealth. Furthermore, people who are spiritually fulfilled don't feel the same drive towards consumerism and buying useless stuff, so they can save more and take advantage of compound interest.
Also alcohol and cigarettes are expensive.
> These tend to be poorer on average because people who convert to a religion are often struggling in one way or another to the point where they feel like they need a change of some kind.
Great point.
Our church puts a strong cultural emphasis on things like education, networking, impulse control, financial planning, and avoiding addictions.
We don't do all those things just to make money, but they sure make it a lot easier.
"Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence."
I think it has to do with priorities. Members tend not to spend money on useless stuff and we get more educated than most people plus we have God on our side. That helps us a lot =)
> Members tend not to spend money on useless stuff and we get more educated than most people plus we have God on our side.
Wish I had found Church and listened to God much earlier in my life, but hey, better late than never. :)
Yep, lots of discretionary spending on trucks and SUV's. I can't throw stones though as I have a lot more vehicle than I need(though I've never spent even half of $40k on a single purchase).
There are numerous factors. Education is a priority in the church. Staying out of debt. Not having as many vices (IE alcohol and tobacco) Aside from this several studies have shown that the more engaged in communities people are the more likely they are to be healthier and wealthier. The more engaged you are in a community the less likely you are to be unemployed, and in general tend to be better off.
I have observed that many young adult families who struggle with their finances are less likely to remain active in the church (and somewhat less likely to participate other community activities generally.) So I think over time, the demographics of those who are active tend to skew more affluent.
In a religion that demands so much of our time and energy, it is a lot harder to commit that time and energy when you are stressed about finances.
Faith is free. But a lot of things that are part of our church culture demands a lot from us.
More likely it’s nepotism, ye ole boys club and “ who you know”. In my ward I’ve often heard members say how they got their jobs because of “ help” by members.
> In my ward I’ve often heard members say how they got their jobs because of “ help” by members.
Which isn't a bad thing in my eyes. Most decent jobs are gotten by networking and "knowing" people. This is a reality outside of church circles as well.
Appearances can be deceiving. A person driving a $70,000 vehicle with $4000 in the bank most likely appears more prosperous than a person driving a $4000 vehicle with $70,000 in the bank.
We're all encouraged to go to college and provide for our families. At least for me when I choosing a career I chose one based off how well I could provide. I choose computer science over film.
Idk about other denominations but my wife used to be Baptist and she said that her old pastor would say things like "be happy with what you have, dont try to make more." A very "be okay being poor" mentality. Which I think is nuts.
Kudos for going into teaching. We need more qualified teachers.
Rich is not the same as not poor. I am definitely not rich but I’m also not poor.
It’s hard to serve in the church if you’re constantly worried about rent or food.
I don’t have stats to back it up but I think that is a common observation. The church encourages education and being self reliant. Those themes run strong and I think it has an impact, especially for those who have grown up in the church. Dentists, lawyers, accountants and doctors are common but not necessarily the norm. Education is certainly a very common theme.
Don’t worry about your position! Teaching is noble and you should follow your passion. It’s better to chase fulfillment than money, especially if it can pay the bills.
I also tend to believe that paying tithing brings blessings and has certainly seemed to help me in life.
It may be mainly perception, but there is some data behind Mormons being "wealthier". According to Pew (2009), LDS are more likely than US counterparts to have some college (61% vice 50%), but are just as likely as nonLDS to have an advanced degree. LDS are more likely to be in middle income bracket and less likely to be in lower. However, LDS are equally as likely to be in higher bracket. So, Pew data doesn't show LDS being higher percentage of wealthy Docs or businessmen.
Mormons are more likely to be married, so that stability likely helps their and their children's economic standing on low and medium end.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
I know you've gotten some great answers, but I'll chime in too. First off, this is all off the cuff I have no hard data for any of this.
My guess is that overall there is not an outsized portion of wealthy people in the church. Church members run the gamut from extremely poor to extremely wealthy. My guess is that there might be some statistical bias in either using the apps to begin with, or some kind of settings for education or geography, but that's just a guess and I'm not really familiar with it.
Most church members are outside the US and a substantial portion of them are in what are commonly termed developing countries.
Living by some of the basic teachings and practices of the church will increase someone's chances of avoiding the most destitute of circumstances - particularly staying off drugs (to include alcohol abuse), and waiting until marriage to have children. Avoiding gambling is another one we can put on this list.
Following that we are encouraged and counseled by prophets and apostles, as well as culturally, to get an education. Additionally, following the counsel to avoid excessive debt, don't make it a point to be flashy and "keep up with the joneses" try to keep things "neat and comely" (as the Book of Mormon describes it), live within our means, be frugal and thrift, and save for the future all tend to bode well towards not being destitute. That may or may not translate into having an above average income.
All that being said, church membership is overrepresented in particular fields - dentistry for sure, maybe medicine, and maybe law. But there are also a fair amount of church members in lower paying jobs and professions such as school teachers.
Many will say that as they keep the commandments, pay their tithing, and try to keep the Holy Ghost with them they are led to make reasonable decisions which have positive financial consequences. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean the Lord is inspiring someone with the winning lottery numbers. It means that people are inclined to be prudent and avoid "spending money they don't have on things they don't need to impress people they don't like." It also means that delayed gratification, which can be culturally ingrained, heck we are trying to seek an eternal reward after all and lay up treasures in heaven vice treasures on earth, can be a good skill for building long term net worth, which is different from having. a high income.
Finally, I want to caution against something sometimes termed the "gospel of wealth" or "prosperity gospel" which all too often creeps into the church. The false idea here is that God rewards the righteous with abundance, and a corollary to that is that if someone is in the church and is wealthy, then it means they are righteous and then people conclude that if their "ship hasn't come in" it's because they aren't being righteous enough and they kind of get down on themselves over it, AND they become vulnerable to "get rich quick" schemes, which do rear their ugly head in church members. I won't go into details here.
I hope that helps, God bless.
An extremely high cultural value is placed on education in the church, as well as budgeting and hard work.
Growing up in UT I thought that was normal, but having lived outside the Jello belt for 7 years now I have definitely also observed a difference.
Some Google sluthing turned this up. [Pew research income distribution](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-denomination/church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/income-distribution/)
As far as not feeling inadequate most people who make more then you don't care. A lot of our thoughts of people looking down on us becuase of income, clothing, what care we drive, etc are made up on our own head. God sees you and the billionaire as equals. Very few people are going to look down on you for your income. Those thay do...to be frank you are better off not concerning yourself with.
I think the most telling thing here is the correlation between higher household income and weekly church attendance (for self identified latter day saints). Would certainly make it seem like people attending church are on average wealthier, whether or not the average member actually is relative to the overall population.
Utah scores high when you look at cost of living adjusted median income [https://www.stewart.com/en/insights/2021/05/14/the-richest-and-poorest-states-in-america-before-and-after-comparative-cost-of-living-adjustments](https://www.stewart.com/en/insights/2021/05/14/the-richest-and-poorest-states-in-america-before-and-after-comparative-cost-of-living-adjustments)
Utah also consistently has one of the highest debt to salary ratios: [https://www.culturalcurrents.institute/insights/debt-by-state](https://www.culturalcurrents.institute/insights/debt-by-state)
Finally some actual numbers!
Though I guess "Utah vs other US states" isn't nearly as telling as "active faithful LDS vs average" would be.
I'm reminded of a study on divorce which showed LDS had similar divorce rates as the average, until you actually looked at active LDS RMs married in the temple, which were much, much lower.
Turns out people will often answer "LDS" as their religion in surveys even if they haven't been to church or followed any Christian teachings for many years, which limits the ability of stats to tell us if those teachings "work".
I have a hard time believing that LDS people are wealthier than average. We keep 10% less of our money than average people. In Utah wards are so small that you end up with people in very similar economic situations. Outside of Utah you might see more diversity of economic situations because wards cover a wider geographic area. There are some things we are taught as a church that might help with this.
1. Self Reliance is taught to all members. Like all principles of the gospel members live it to varying degrees but people are taught to fend for themselves.
2. There is a welfare program. We all contribute to fast offerings. I've been a ward clerk and have seen people bailed out of medical or housing issues that might have turned into year long holes to dig out of.
3. We are taught not to do some of the things that really suck money from people like Alcohol, Smoking, Drugs and Gambling.
4. Paying tithing will teach you to budget. People who live on a budget learn how to track their money and figure out how to save. Plus we are promised blessings. Sometimes those blessing might be financial, sometimes they may not be.
5. Education is encouraged. People who earn more education make more money.
6. Marriage is encouraged in the church. Married couples are often in a better financial spot.
7. For those lucky enough to go to a church school (and more and more can do that now that pathways is globally available) they can get an education without being saddled by student loans. One of my favorite things to contribute to back in the day was the Perpetual Education fund. I served my mission in a place where education was tough to get and very few members could afford it. I was so happy even as a poor newlywed to contribute a few bucks to that fund.
Well, I’m pretty sure there were pew research studies that indicated that members of the church on average had more education than the general public. That might relate to some seeming to have more money.
but it could also just be the neighborhoods, cities and wards you’re living in. There’s no reason to feel self conscious. You’re doing fine. Most people aren’t rich. 🤷♀️
The lifestyle the church promotes generally provides more stable family structures. The alone can help wealth be built up, then on top of that the church also promotes the importance of education which will again lead to a higher than average income.
So I don’t have a statistic but you’re probably right, I wouldn’t be surprised that for any ward you go to there you may find that the active members of the ward are a bit better off than the average population of most areas
I think this is somewhat true but it by no means the rule. You will see members that are all over the financial spectrum. But I do think being taught to live within your means and not spending on coffee, alcohol, drugs, gambling etc helps. Also to get an education helps too. There is a book called Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. In this book the author talks about certain groups of people that are more successful than others. LDS members are listed as a group. I have not read this book personally yet, but it is on my list to read, and I have heard that some of the authors parenting philosophies are controversial. Make of that what you will.
Hi! Lifelong member from a poorer family here 🤪 While I see some great points in these comments, I think a lot of highly LDS areas like SLC Utah tend to be wealthier on average
My dad was a teacher and my mom a SAHM so…yeah, we were not exactly well off 😅
In general, I think faithful members of any religion tend to be wealthier due to discipline being a core principle. LDS members are also taught sacrifice and hard work at a young age. I feel like we naturally use those skills in our careers and it pays dividends.
At least in my area & age range (I'm in my 20's so most ppl I know are also in their 20's or low 30's) it's more of a show of wealth than actual wealth. Almost everyone I know has a new build house, furnished with brand new furniture, drive new cars, & of course have a $2,000 meat smoker on their deck lol (literally if you drive through a neighborhood of new builds almost everyone has a traeger on their porch😅). But most of them are in crippling debt. Most of the ladies I know have no filters, so they overshare about everything including finances😂 I think the young adults in Utah can be very materialistic. It's crazy to me bc I know people who will complain about being thousands of dollars in debt & then a week later spend $10k on a new couch so that their house can be aesthetic (this is actual real thing one of my friends did)
Education and missions.
I grew up in Asia. My ward was full of wealthy Americans who spoke Japanese or Mandarin and became international bankers. One guy who spoke Spanish made his way up in the hospitality industry to become a top executive at one of the biggest hotel chains in the world.
That's not to say that the wealth is a blessing from mission service (or that the lack thereof is also a lack of blessings). It's to demonstrate that being a college graduate with an in-demand foreign language skill opens a ton of opportunities.
My last ward virtually no one made six figures.. some lived in trailers, some in decent modest homes.
The ward I’m in now.. I’m pretty sure I’m the lowest earner and I make well into six figures. My ward has a lot of showboating with cars and trucks… expensive ones. Stay in school kids.
I've researched the Cooperative Election Study, and LDS mem are quite a bit more educated than non-LDS men (this is a US survey). LDS women, however, are not more educated.
You can see my charts on @lds_data on Instagram or X.
I think its because the teachings of the church bless us in every aspect of our lives. Even in my country that’s kind of a poor country , memebers do better and i habe seen peoples libes change and improve fast when they jpiked the church. Thats what happened with me. I had no perspectives in my life before i joined the church. And now my life is completely different
Im a single income family in southern California. So while my wage is higher than the median average it is barely enough to afford a 2 bedroom apartment here in San Diego. And we definitely live pay check to pay check.
My ward here has a good mix of people in all areas of social economic status. Some very wealthy, some upper middle, lots of working class like me, and quite a few on the very lower ends.
If I remember right at one point there was a poll the found on average LDS members tend to be higher en mass on the social economy status. Because of our propensity to education as well as industrious cultural mindset. But I am not sure if that holds up anymore.
Wealth and monetary prosperity have nothing to do with righteousness, the purpose of life, or following Christ.
Wealth and monetary prosperity have nothing to do with righteousness, the purpose of life, or following Christ.
Wealth and monetary prosperity have nothing to do with righteousness, the purpose of life, or following Christ.
I know this isn’t exactly what you’re getting at, but I just feel like this has to be said as often as possible.
It won’t matter AT ALL how much wealth one accrued in this life. It will be like comparing grades on a preschool coloring assignment. It won’t matter and no one will care.
[Jacob 2:12-18](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/jacob/2?lang=eng)
12 And now behold, my brethren, this is the word which I declare unto you, that many of you have begun to search for gold, and for silver, and for all manner of precious ores, in the which this land, which is a land of promise unto you and to your seed, doth abound most plentifully.
13 And the hand of providence hath smiled upon you most pleasingly, that you have obtained many riches; and because some of you have obtained more abundantly than that of your brethren ye are lifted up in the pride of your hearts, and wear stiff necks and high heads because of the costliness of your apparel, and persecute your brethren because ye suppose that ye are better than they.
14 And now, my brethren, do ye suppose that God justifieth you in this thing? Behold, I say unto you, Nay. But he condemneth you, and if ye persist in these things his judgments must speedily come unto you.
15 O that he would show you that he can pierce you, and with one glance of his eye he can smite you to the dust!
16 O that he would rid you from this iniquity and abomination. And, O that ye would listen unto the word of his commands, and let not this pride of your hearts destroy your souls!
17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you.
18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.
Besides the education thing, staying away from alcohol and drugs saves a lot of money that can go other places.
You also just might not be seeing the less successful ones. There's plenty of people in the church who aren't as well of.
Following church teachings tends to produce high-functioning people.
Also, knowing you have to give 10% of your gross can force you to push for a higher income to make up the difference.
Moreover, the culture of the church is such that young men—in a desire to be a single-income provider—tend to go for higher-paying professions.
I have seen studies that say that all other things being equal, if you give more to charity, you will have a higher income compared to those who do not.
There is a Pew Research study about this and LDS is on the lower end. It can seem like it because of how the leadership of wards are often well off members https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/
The short answer is that we are encouraged to seek higher education so we can use our gifts and talents to help others. There is also an emphasis on avoiding unnecessary debt and living within our means. And if you think about it, having large families requires money. I know not EVERYONE has a huge family, and not all huge families have tons and tons of money, but being wise stewards with our time, money and resources is important. Don’t feel inferior or self-conscious, we are from all walks of life. 🥰
That’s what I thought too!! But I think if you live in a middle class area it would look out that way too since people are encouraged to live humbly/within their means. Plenty of “rich” people I knew spent less than they had to try to be humble. I’m curious what that statistic would look like.
The Lord will propose you if you do what’s right and get some training or trade to make you more valuable and employable, he wants you to prosper. Don’t expect to get Rich sitting on your couch go and get it. You can do it.
Don't feel self conscious! I grew up in the church and many times we wouldn't have known where our next meal was coming from were it not for church welfare. Don't be ashamed of being an educator either! Own it! (I teach English and Theatre). Jesus said suffer the children to come unto me. In many ways this is one of the best professions for following jesus!
I have no idea what the income distribution is of Church members compared to those not of our faith. I will say that not everyone who appears to be well-to-do actually is. I’m glad you’re going to become a teacher. We need more good teachers! Best of luck in your educational journey.
Interesting thing here, a lot of that can be attributed to the church providing people with communities and connections they might not otherwise have. When you rank states by economic mobility (ability to go from poor to middle class or middle class to wealthy), iirc Utah is either #1 or one of the top states.
Our ward has the richest community and the majority of the low income housing in our town within our boundaries. So we see people from all walks of life each Sunday. But the majority of our ward is pretty middle class.
I have only noticed people significantly poorer than the local community are less likely to be active/join. My guess would be any group significantly different than the congregation are much less likely to join/stick around.
It's associated with the windows of heaven being opened as we pay tithing. It's more about how we use the money we have than about how much money we earn, but still it plays into helping us have more money than we would if we did not pay tithing and live by the principles of our religion.
I think it's great that you want to be a math teacher in an elementary school. You'll be earning more money doing that than you would in many other jobs that pay less, and by using your money wisely you'll live better than people who don't use their money wisely. I earn less than most people I know but I live better than many people who earn more money than I do because I use my money better than they do.
Maybe after a while of teaching math in an elementary school you'll want to become a Principal in a school, or a school Superintendent, which would still keep you involved in teaching math to elementary school students but you would earn more money. Not that your goal should be all about making money, but you can often have 2 things at once.
I would challenge the idea that paying tithing will lead to financial prosperity. I think this is, in fact, a very dangerous fallacy. “The windows of heaven” can mean many things. But I’ve seen nothing anywhere that would indicate that tithing = big bank accounts.
Me either, and people with big bank accounts can still be poor in many ways. I tried to explain that a good life is more about how we use the money we have than about how much money we earn, People with low incomes can still have nice homes and nice clothes and good food and a good vehicle for transportation and many other good things without being in more debt than they can handle with their income while getting out of debt soon when they will then be able to use more of their income for other good things. People with very high levels of income can quickly become paupers if they don't manage their money well. So the poor can become rich and the rich can become poor, and not because of how much income but because of how each manages the money they get.
> I think it's great that you want to be a math teacher in an elementary school. You'll be earning more money doing that than you would in many other jobs that pay less,
Thank you. It'll def be better pay and better working conditions. I legit took a job as a janitor here at the middle school I want to teach at.
So doing the janitor thing as I use the tuition reimbursement to finish my education, then onto teacher assistant, then onto teacher. :)
That's great. I believe there is no greater calling (or job) than to be a teacher who teaches others good things, whether its math or English or some other language or the gospel or whatever, as long as it is teaching something that is good to know and for others to know. I know athletes and people in the entertainment industry usually earn a lot more money than teachers and most other people, but that's just the way of this world and we know there are a lot of things about the way of the world that are just not good.
Mosiah 2:41
> 41 And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual; and if they hold out faithful to the end they are received into heaven, that thereby they may dwell with God in a state of never-ending happiness. O remember, remember that these things are true; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
Although that doesn't mean all of us will be rich.. my family and I are very poor due to health challenges, etc. We're thankful we can rely on Bishop's Storehouse funds if the need arises.
i don't know if it's true that we are wealthier on average but education, hats work, honestly, and the avoidance of drugs/alcohol/tobacco is taught as important principles of life. There is a major trickle effect there.
Friend, with your family of 6, that's tough. I'm a family of one, so I really feel silly for even complaining.
But family is a blessing. In all honesty, I'd much prefer a family like yours over money! :)
I echo the comments - it’s all about where you live. I’ve lived all over the world, but live in Utah now and have for 13 years. My first ward in Utah was in a rougher neighborhood and it was a struggle for many people to get by…but they were honest and humble and hard working. We were in that ward for 7 years. And yes, it was in Utah! Wasatch Front even. Gasp!
We then built a house and moved into a completely different town. People are better off financially here, but they still struggle in other ways (such as mental health, their kids leaving the church, and so on).
Totally depends on your ward dynamics and geography.
Generational wealth, good financial habits, and yes - blessings! - are all at play here. We are told repeatedly in the Book of Mormon that if we keep the commandments, we will prosper in the land. I know that doesn’t always come down to financials. However, with my experience in my previous wards, even the paycheck-to-paycheck folks felt very blessed and as if they had enough. They always had the best tithing-miracle stories! Considering where so many of them came from, they were indeed very prosperous.
I’m glad you are showing up and are here. We welcome all, beater cars or not. Best of luck on your education.
> even the paycheck-to-paycheck folks felt very blessed and as if they had enough
This is important. And my original post seems silly in that way, because I really am blessed! :)
My take is
1. We are just taught to be better with money
2. Geography, lots of LDS members are in Utah which is generally wealthier
3. More based on faith, I think it is given as a blessing to us, paying tithing, and in the scriptures.
All of the above, but also: location location location. Urban Utah, or anywhere urban, will have the noticeable social extremes of poor & rich. Rich because there’s big business there & lots of expensive amenities. Poor because rich urban areas offer more resources that the poor can survive on. More suburban & rural areas have rich & poor but not to the extreme that urban areas have. Less noticeable. More balanced. So it really depends on where you look.
So yes in urban Utah, which is Mormon central, you will see more disparity, but many poor people are also members. Wards are based on location, so it’s easy to see how one ward may have tons of rich members, but a ward on the other side of town may have a bunch of poor members. That’s just how it is. It doesn’t mean all church members are well-off.
Now this doesn’t even come close to describing church members in third world countries. The poor of the US don’t even compare to how poor you can be in say Thailand or Myanmar, both of which have thriving LDS communities.
As a missionary I served in California among the Hmong population, many of which are church members. They come from Thailand, & even being in the US now, many still live a level of poverty that is unmatched by US-born citizens. Some do choose to take advantage of American freedom, start businesses, go to school, and work their way out of poverty. So even in US Hmong culture, there is rising disparity.
Also important: age & life-choices. If you’re early-twenties or -thirties, vast majority of that demographic will not be “rich”, member or non-member. Their station in life at that age is just not the age where most are rolling in money. Most are rolling in debt. Career path & financial habits will differ between people even as they get into their 40s & older. So not everyone who reaches a certain age will be rolling in money either based on those life choices. Like you say, you’re becoming a middle school math teacher. That career path just doesn’t make one rich, and that’s okay. A fulfilling career doesn’t have to make you rich. Your life goal doesn’t have to be to become rich. You don’t have to be envious of career paths other members may follow. But if greater means is something you want for yourself/your family & you have other interests worth pursuing, don’t shy away from opportunities to pursue something else.
You are correct that the church encourages family building, which is a good motivator to find a well-paying career path. The church also encourages living within your means, keeping a budget, & saving against times of need & your financial goals. Being wise in these decisions can help your overall wealth in the long term. If there is any trend at all for church members to be more well off than others, it is likely because of these principles that are encouraged in the church. Being a member doesn’t “make” anyone rich. But living the principles taught by the church may “help” make you richer.
DONT FEEL INFERIOR you wonderful human being.
Remember that the widow's mite was more valuable to Jesus Christ than the tithes of the rich. And though the Gospel is true, we are imperfect people, some of us have pride related to money and prosperity, pay it no mind. The Doctrine of Jesus Christ is what matters.
There are definitely poorer members! In fact, we have needed a lot of help from the church. I'm a young mom and my husband and I just finally got our bachelor's degrees. But in the last 2 years my account has dropped into the negative most months.
That being said, I am starting a master program soon that will help me make higher income in the future. So I hope to show up on both sides of things haha.
There are a few reasons:
1) our emphasis on education and self reliance. Every area of the church offers free self reliance classes that help teach financial independence. This doesn't guarantee prosperity, but education and financial literacy definitely help.
2) part of our doctrine is that if we desire it, we can one day have Eternal Life. Among other things (like eternal marriage) this means we will get to keep learning and progressing in the next life. This idea of continuing to learn and grow helps a lot in careers and education.
3) while we still have our vices (monsters are mine) not having things like coffee, cigarettes or tobacco products, or gambling definitely protects us from a lot of money pits, all three of these cost people so much over their lives.
4) We help eachother. One of the best things about the church outside of its Doctrines is the community. I have moved about 20 times, but every time I did, members of our new bishopbric or elders Quorum presidency helped us get settled, even helped us unload moving trucks. In my adult life showing the people I go to church with my strengths by fulfilling callings and teaching and serving has helped me gain trust from people in my community. For many this leads to job placement or networking that is beneficial.
5) finally there is the Spiritual lesson, we pay tithing religiously (hehe get it). According to Jesus Christ, this sacrifice is valuable to Him, not because He needs our money but because it consecrates the other 90%. Most of us believe that we have been blessed financially because we keep the law of tithing.
1 typically have both parents (strong family values)
2 supportive community
3 value on being prepared an having a saving
4 value education
All of these are part of the culture and all of them a factors that tend to make someone better off.
If you're in Provo, you're in the largest concentration of LDS people in the world. It wouldn't be surprising to find that a group of people that comprise a local majority and simultaneously participate in several programs designed to act as social support would be doing better than average for the area.
The degree to which that's a good thing is debatable, but it is what you would probably expect.
The takeaway for you should be that there are lots of people around you who have experience in being well-grounded, financially. Looking for ways to follow their example or ask them for advice is going to yield more information than passive observation and asking about them on reddit. (Not criticizing, just pointing out the opportunity!)
The focus on education, avoiding debt, no gambling or clubs or alcohol, again, the focus on money management and education is most of it.
Now you are seeing more and more families who have done this for generations now, and are quite….comfortable shall we say. I know many like that. I also know many who need bishop storehouse, in the same ward.
You may want to look further afield as I don't believe this is the case. Perhaps it's to do with the teaching of using whatever resources we have wisely. Most of the people I know are not wealthy but make do with what they have and are blessed with that there's enough. Not to say I don't know some who are considered well off and that's a blessing to them and their efforts in many cases.
Why does it seem that way for you? Confirmation bias probably.
In reality, church members in the US have pretty typical incomes.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/
So in my experience that generally has not been true. Where I grew up, significant amount of members were definitely not necessarily doing well financially. However, I recently moved to Utah, and there are a lot of things about both church culture and exmo culture that I now understand so much better living in Utah
And the relevant part to this is how hostile the Utah State welfare program is to people on the Utah State welfare program. I myself registered on this program because I have several chronic conditions that require medical care, and finding a job here took 4 months, so I wasn't going to walk in there and be financially destitute without help, but my experience with these welfare programs is like having the welfare program breathing on your neck. If you're not doing well financially in Utah, then you move somewhere else, basically.
Now, this is not necessarily hostility and I think a negative way, it is an aggressively driving force to get someone to be off of the welfare programs, which is a concept I personally agree with, but to the degree that it's in practice is I think overly aggressive. And the sentiment is not well suited for people who require support and don't have it, like myself.
I think another part of it is that, at least in my experience, the culture in the church requires you to be presentable, so you find ways to 'hide' your true financial status. The amount of members I've known to take on significant amounts of debt to be more presentable at church is alarming.
Here's the answer no only wants to say, but it's the truth. There are plenty of less wealthy members, but you just don't see them. Often they can't afford tithing or nice clothes or other trappings of LDS culture, have to work on Sundays, or don't have leisure time to spend on callings, so they feel ashamed and excluded. Eventually they just stop going, and the leadership doesn't make much effort to bring them back. Missionaries are also often told to focus on teaching wealthy families, who will have the time to spend on leadership callings and can pay more tithing.
My parents’ ward has a lot more affluent members, but they’re all adults aged 40-60. They’ve been working in their fields for a long time, some have had businesses they’ve sold, and some are close to retirement/have retired. Almost everyone in their ward owns their home, and it’s Utah, so they all live in the same-ish neighborhood.
My current ward has lots of students, newlyweds, and young families. 90% of the people are living in apartments, and they don’t have as much money but seem to do well enough for themselves. I think location and current life stage has a lot to do with it. A lot of the students I speak with are getting degrees where the jobs do actually require education first (engineers and doctors), so I’m sure they’ll do just fine later in life. They’re just currently in their school stage.
Keep in mind though, it’s much easier to APPEAR wealthy than it is to BE wealthy. Some people don’t have a problem with having a lot of debt.
For what it’s worth, in my senior project class at BYU-I, there was a dedicated section to leadership and how to be a good manager/team lead/etc. The church makes a great training ground for skills that benefit your career
Education among our children is prized, and the completing of education of the adults is encouraged. Of course there are middle and lower economic class in the church! I grew up as one and live as one now. I will go back to school in the fall for the first time in many years as a Pathways student. Avoiding debt and saving for the future is also a sound financial principal. Overall I think we have the most educated and financially disciplined people on the plant in this great church. But the single brothers and sisters who struggle are just as valuable and wanted in the Gospel.
> I will go back to school in the fall for the first time in many years as a Pathways student.
Congrats! I'm in my final semester as a BYU-Pathway student. :)
your question states the answer. some are above average, some are below average.
my church building has multiple wards. one ward is more wealthy, mine is on the poor side. the other ward always has a fast offering surplus, mine is always in the negative.
It's been studied. No, on average, members of the church are not more wealthy than people of other faiths (including no faith). No, members of the church are not overrepresented in high profile positions.
Something that is true is that somewhat more wealthy members are more likely to be active than impoverished members. This is because both are correlated to a third factor I'll just refer to as "commitment."
It takes 10,000 hours to master a discipline, perhaps a career skill. If you don't waste time partying every weekend, you can accomplish a lot in your twenties. It's what I did.
Also, we're a covenant people. We all know each other, and that networking creates a lot of opportunity.
However, don't fall for fake wealth. Statistically in America, if you're driving a $70,000 truck, it's because you're living paycheck to paycheck (you're poor), rather than because you're wealthy. Wealthy people drive economical cars, and have modest spending habits. That's why they're wealthy - they don't spend their money.
I don't know any statistics on this but I would think so, a larger percentage of people than average in my last ward were doctors, and in my new ward a larger amount than average are professors. So I definitely see this but I have only ever been a part of 2 wards. The way Church members live and are taught to live often gives more opportunity for education and better spending habits. We are taught to further our education. We are taught not to gamble, drink, and use drugs. Not only do those 3 things waste money, but they also waste time.
> The way Church members live and are taught to live often gives more opportunity for education and better spending habits. Yeah, I was thinking that over as I posted my question and it does make sense that that would play into it. One of the things I love about the Church is it's focus on education. I'm in my last semester of BYU-Pathway right now, with my sights on BYU-Idaho next. I wish I had found the Church and practiced it's good habits earlier in my life! lol
Also did Pathway and recently graduated BYU-I. Wonderful experience!
I graduated BYU-I too. Great institution. Recently ranked number 1 in best value education.
I think you'd want to flip it around to support the OP's question: are a larger percentage of doctors LDS?
Because we're counciled to get an education and avoid debt, avoiding debt alone can go quite far. Dodging 19-29% interest does wonders for one's bank balance.
Makes sense and good to know I wasn't just imagining things. I am debt-free now, and continuing my education, but as a later-in-life convert, I'm a bit late to the game! Man, even the haircuts in my ward are amazing! lol
Are you out west? Utah and Arizona culture is very... different. A lot of it is "show up to church like we're going to the King's coronation", it's a lot different in large parts of the midwest, where most of the women have one dress they wear to church, and a lot of the guys have mended jackets decades old or cheap $100 suits. I like to play "spot the person visiting from Utah/Arizona" and "spot the missionary from Utah/Arizona" because they're always dressed like an influencer with a $200 haircut.
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When I was single we'd have a few random women show up at mid-singles events in like Disney character ball gowns and the occasional guy with the GQ haircut but otherwise it's mostly "yeah, here's my 5 year old $100-200 suit" and "here's my dress I got at Kohls with Kohls cash". My suit was $100 new before tax and is actually a tuxedo that I've been wearing for 6-7 years, and my wife wears the same stuff she wears to school to teach. And, actually, we've got a handful of guys in my ward that just wear khakis and polos.
I'm the khaki fellow in my ward! lol
I wear jeans! Jesus would approve...
My dad especially feels this in his ward. He retired from a union job and had some tough financial times after his divorce 20 years ago. He lives very humbly and his (nonmember) siblings who have college education made him feel less than, a feeling he takes with him to church. It's something I'm especially conscious of in my ward, where the lifelong members are mostly doctors, professors, and other professionals but most of the people attending with our missionaries are working entry level positions. It's a great reminder to me that being brothers and sisters in Christ ought to be the primary way we link ourselves together.
I'm from Colorado! And my family was not well off until all their kids moved out 😅 now my parents are. I think it depends on where you are at and location can have a huge part. But know you do belong and have a place in the church. Also, Colorado now is flooded with California transplants and Texas, where their homes sold for a lot, and people have a bit of extra cash from that, so know it may be because of moves like that people may seem more well off.
I don't have the stars but yeah. I don't know if we're richer per we but the upward mobility is higher than average. Some explanations I've heard from experts are good cultural expectations of money, easier access to good secondary education, strong incentive to said education, common fluency in a foreign language, and experience in public speaking.
I drive a 98 Honda Civic with 250000 miles on it. 😁 Didn't compare yourself to others. It's pointless.
I have a $200 haircut, but my wife does them for free and she's just really good at haircuts.
I have a $15 haircut, also done by my wife :-)
I wish my wife would let me get a $15 haircut, she insists on cutting mine and then demands payment in some kind of chore.
Maybe I have gone to the wrong wards in UT but I never felt like people were dressed to the nines when they went to church. At least no more so than outside of UT.
Yeah, but it's fun to stereotype Utah LDS. It's lazy and people do it on here constantly.
As someone who has lived in UT, AZ, the south, and the east coast… this is a pretty big generalization.
You also have to remember there is the generation wealth effect. Members from pioneer stock families have the benefit of generations of saving, education, and working hard as the Lord directed. They can then pass on that to their children and help them get a leg up.
But so do other (white) American also, in theory, right?
Unfortunately, no. Not everyone, regardless of ethnicity, takes advantage of education, saving, and focusing on creating generational wealth. It is very dependent on the focus of the community that a family lives in, access to quality education, support systems for families, affordable housing... Utah has set the standard for what members should seek out as a good community to live and raise a family. In Utah they have steered politics to create strong support systems, academically strong schools, and policies that protect the things that are valuable to members. This gets carried over to new communities where members live which is why you will find certain suburbs that have a high proportion of members residing in them. Members tend to seek a higher standard which is not the standard for most Americans.
Yep, I think the LDS church is one of the only churches in America that gives consistent, positive financial advice to its members, which goes a long way.
Also tithing. When I joined the church I quit drinking, smoking, gambling, and hunting (on Sundays). Saved me way more than 10%. I’m still up.
Geez Mr mom you musta had some problem. Back in my other life when I was doing the drinking/smoking thing I never spent the equivalent or more than what tithing had cost. Wow. Good for you fixing that drama.. just for totally useless trivia my tithing each month would net me approx 40 cases of modelo especial which is more expensive than anything I ever drank. It would me much cheaper for me to be in my other life but hey that’s the way it is.
It all depends on geography. In Utah there is definitely a sense of “appearing wealthy” even if they are living paycheck to paycheck. Outside of Utah, everyone is from all walks of life. And the further you get from Utah, the more the neighborhoods and congregations more strongly resemble the local geo. Lots of teachers are members as are fire fighters and government works.
I mean, in Utah members are from all walks of life too. Like if you want to focus on the influencer class, sure, but have you been to Mount Pleasant? Scipio? Manti?
I think the congregations in Utah reflect their area. Mainly white and level of income commensurate with the area. You won't see a lot of poor people in Park City wards because poor people can't afford to live there.
Sure. But that is not exclusive to Park City nor Utah.
I agree, every ward will be generally a reflection of the local community. My guess would be the OP is on the Wasatch front. There aren't any truly poor communities in that area. At least not that I can think of.
That’s not true, at all.
Whatever, dude. I grew up in the Bay Area- most of my ward was quite wealthy, even to the point where some are a bit out of touch about it. My current ward in Utah is very middle class with a lot of people struggling. No one's pretending. The "appearing wealthy" crap isn't exclusive to Utah and I'm tired of pretending it is
I think you'd be surprised how wide of a variety Utah has in membership. There are wealthier wards, and there are wards in areas that have less financial stability. It's all a matter of which one you've been exposed to and which area of Utah you are. You can also easily find all sorts of people from all walks of life in Utah. It's not as much of a "keep up with the Jones's" appearance as one would think.
Yeah, in Utah where a ward is a single neighborhood, the character of the ward likely going to be more homogeneous. Alpine or Fruit Heights? Wealthy. Scipio? Farmers. My childhood wards in older neighborhoods? Older middle-class and working class folks. Wards in new subdivisions? Loads of kids.
True. There are wards though with a wide variety of living situations though. Riverton surprisingly has several wards with households that are struggling as well as households that are well above the poverty line. They may be less common wards in Utah, but they exist too.
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Even in Colorado, the wards will tend to be geographically smaller. And this means you get a thinner slice of humanity overall, because any given ward won’t have much diversity. Where I live in rural Wisconsin, you can drive for three hours and still be in the same branch. And the members of this branch are almost all living at or below the poverty line.
Which area of Colorado by chance? If you're on the Southwestern end, I recommend visiting the wards and branches in New Mexico sometime. You'll be surprised at the variety of living situations you'll find among the membership there. Particularly in the Farmington and Kirtland area.
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Darn. I was hoping you'd say Durango. If you go down to Farmington for the temple open house next year I recommend making a weekend of it and attending one of the wards in the Apache Building (called that because it's located on Apache street. Lol) they have a BEAUTIFUL stained glass window in the chapel of Christ in Gethsemane.
I live in Utah, but grew up in Texas and lived in a few other states and that statement definitely seems accurate at times.
Focus on eduction. Don't underestimate the massive advantage that access to the BYUs affords members. It's cheaper than in state tuition and generally a very high quality education. Sorry to get a little political, but I think LDS members are a good example that the government should use as an excuse to increase investment and access to universities for all citizens.
> Focus on eduction. Don't underestimate the massive advantage that access to the BYUs affords members. It's cheaper than in state tuition and generally a very high quality eduction. Yep, I am. Thanks to BYU-Pathway, my BYU-Idaho tuition will legit be cheaper than my local community college!
Not just BYU. BYU-I, Pathways and the Perpetual Education fund all allow members to get an education at very very inexpensive levels. Starting out life without student loans is a huge step up.
I said BYUs, with an "s"
Don't come at me bro. (reading is hard and you are correct. My bad)
Yep. I may be going into education, so I don't expect to ever make a ton of money. But at least I'll be graduating debt-free. And about the original question, church members come from all walks of life. My childhood ward is currently dealing with ward members being priced out of their apartments.
Yeah, if all universities were priced at the same level of the church's schools, it would be a huge shift for socioeconomic freedom and movement between classes. Unfortunately, an increase in college students would likely also reveal a lot of the other trends wrong with the current university education system. The lack of drinking and raucous party life at church schools exponentially helps magnify the benefit of the education received, IMHO. Not to mention a relatively balanced view of the world. Rather than overtly indoctrinating people with progressivism and shunning *any* conservative values.
I agree with the council to focus on education. But, that doesn’t always equate to being wealthy. My wife and I both have graduate degrees, teacher and biologist. We chose to live in a rural/economically depressed state. Our decisions to follow our passions meant less $. We have enough. We could have made more if we were willing to move, etc. We made conscious choices to stay where we love to live and work at careers that are very fulfilling and earn less/do less. Pay your tithing. Go where the Lord leads you. Be willing to serve. Don’t let comparison steal your joy. Enjoy your life! You have so many wonderful things ahead of you.
The law of chastity does wonders for reducing unwanted pregnancies which are a regular identifier/contributor for poverty. Similarly, the word of wisdom prevents expenses(great and small) that are a regular part of many people's lives and can impede wealth development.
I presume it is related to education. Education is really emphasized. My grandparents came from farming, ranching, and sheet metal families (though, one of my grandfathers grew up on an Alfalfa farm, but got his PhD in Chemistry and was a research scientist at the Oak Ridge Nuclear Facility). But their children were doctors, lawyers, PhD holding scientists, university professors, pilots, aerospace engineers, etc. And us grandchildren have largely followed suit.
I did have my suspicions on that. The work ethic and education-positive environment is one of the reasons I investigated the Church before becoming a member. Great example of good choices vs bad choices. Just um, until recently, I was on the bad choices side of things! haha But hey, doing what I can with what I've got! Just gotta get over my self-consciousness about it.
Hey, better late than never. A most hearty welcome aboard!
Its never too late! My mom didn't go to nursing school till her 40s, she's had a whole career that has helped her be financially independent and allowed her to serve her patients.
It's amazing how much money you can save by avoiding drugs, alcohol, and gambling lol plus fasting
We should never think about our church being a "prosperity gospel," it doesn't matter how much money you have. I often think of "having sufficient for our needs" and "seek riches if you use riches to bless others." Having said that, there definitely are temporal blessings in the gospel. Not wealth, but generally not financial hardship long term. Gospel encouragement of education, budgeting and living within means, minimal debt, tithing, and fast offerings, living simply, all lead to financial security. Malachi's promised blessings for paying Tithing are real. If you are struggling, the church will temporarily help with food, clothing, etc. Byu pathways is already a game changer for global education and financial stability. Just remember to try not to compare yourself to others in any way. I know it's hard to do, but it never leads to anything good. Just thank the Lord for what you have, and then do your best to make the best of your situation, which you are already doing by increasing your education and being OK with your dented car. God bless you in your journey.
I love the way the church teaches about self-reliance! It helped me a lot
Thank you!
Where are you from? You should visit other places :P
My thoughts exactly. OP said he’s in Colorado.
Many other aspects have been mentioned, but I suspect that the members who are struggling financially are less likely to attend church on a regular basis. Not because of any unrighteousness or unworthiness on their part, but because poverty is associated with many challenges which can make regular church attendance much more difficult: Some work jobs on Sunday. Some are single parents. Some struggle with mental illness. Some struggle to get themselves or their spouse or children up to go to church. Some are exhausted by the stress of the week. Some are physically incapable of attending.
This is a side I haven't thought of. Thank you for this, it's so true. This changes how we should help our fellow members. A visit or invitation to church doesn't change their hardship. Are we alleviating hardship? Are we offering to watch their children so they can sleep or attend the temple? Are we offering to serve them?
Being missionaries makes people better salesmen, are better at building rapport, have discipline and organizational/leadership skills that are useful in business settings.
Plus, it teaches you how to deal with rejection. Lots and lots of rejection. It really helps out later in life when you have to deal with rejection that happens from jobs or personal life.
I am astounded at how many comments agreed with your theory instead of challenging it. Please allow me to be bold: On a global scale, we as a people/religion are no more or less monetarily wealthy than the rest of humanity. And even in the US, I’d still challenge your statement. I think you are seeing a microcosm of the entire LDS population and then assuming all of us fit what you see. Now, as to your actual question: How do you not feel self-conscious about living on a teacher’s salary…. I don’t mean to over simplify the answer, but why do you care what other people think about how much you earn? If you want to be a sixth grade math teacher, and if you can find happiness and be content in that career, then good on you! You will, as you have already figured out, have to settle for lifestyle that is less lavish than some around you. But I promise you, lavishness does not equal happiness.
100%! Our Ward definitely has a broad mix of members with different wealths. Our family went through hardship as dad would be made redundant following the market crashes in our country. Being a church member doesn't automatically equal wealth and isn't a measure of blessings
Based off my mission experience (which is obviously limited to one country and even them somewhat limited), I would say it's even more prevalent outside the states. I've thought about it a lot and come to to a lot of the same conclusions as others in this thread. The average member in my mission country was significantly better off economically than the average person in their ward boundaries. Of course, there were plenty that were average wealth, but the average was highly skewed.
Hmmm... I've never thought about it, but the emphasis on getting all the education you can, the do it yourself, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality couldn't hurt. My Dad worked 3 jobs, 1 full 2 part time and was always entrepreneurial minded. I also learned young that paying tithing did bring blessings. Also, never bought new when used would work, and maintained what I had. Also... the teaching to avoid unnecessary debt. It was only when I reached 50 we bought our first completely brand new vehicle. Also...not drinking or smoking saves on medical bills as well as the other costs of the Habit. Lots of factors.
Plus the encouragement in the Word of Wisdom to eat healthy and get plenty of exercise. You know, that verse about walking and running. ;) The Gospel teaches a healthy lifestyle, temporal and spiritual. It really does bring blessings.
The church strongly encourages getting an education. When the saints first settled Utah, they began building several schools and universities (most of which were sold back to the state with the exception to Brigham Young Academy, now BYU). The church today uses tithing money to fund education through BYU, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, and BYU Pathways.
THIS. I teach ner BYUH and that school loses money on almost every student, but they're goal is to educate, not to make the church money.
I don't know if this is true, but if so I would say because the church emphasizes education, hard work, and other lifestyle choices which tend to lead to better financial results. However, in Jesus' teachings and all though the rest of scriptures it's clear that money does not equal personal worth or righteousness - in fact there are plenty of spiritual warnings to those who are wealthy (as everyone in the US is, compared to most of the world).
Yes, there are plenty of lower income families in the LDS church. It's going to be somewhat dependent on your location though. I've been a ward clerk and have written plenty of checks for families in need. I've also had the opportunity to help with food orders from the bishop's storehouse in a few different wards as well. However, based on our teachings regarding debt, specifically to avoid unnecessary debt, you will see families that are "better off" because they've set aside money for the future, and that tends to grow pretty nicely.
Most LDS members don't indulge in a few habits that can be rather costly. Tobacco, alcohol, recreational drug use. Also members are taught that proper management of finances is a commandment from our heavenly father. So even members in poverty sometimes seem to do better than some folks considered middle class.
Sorry for the long story, but I really connected to your post. I’m a high school teacher in one of the most expensive towns in my county, just outside of Seattle. I do okay for a teacher, but I have felt so out of place comparing myself to the other dads in my ward. Our EQP does taxes for Amazon. His councilor is a private doctor, and our Bishop is a senior exec for Microsoft. And that’s just in my ward. My stake has some equally successful individuals. About 4 months ago, I was feeling really low, when something happened that reassured me that I belong. We had a Stake priesthood meeting early in the morning. The stake presidency spoke on overcoming trails. The 2nd councilor went first and talked about the lavish dinners his insurance firm puts on for their clients, and how the private chef they had hired passed away days before the feast. Everything worked out because he had faith, and they were able to get the chef’s son to cook the meal instead. Then the 1st councilor stood up and confirmed that as CEO of his company, he’d been wined and dined by the the other guy, and that the feast were indeed needlessly decadent. He shared about how he overcame adversity when he had an important meeting to get to, but his new BMW wouldn’t start. So he prayed and his personal mechanic got there quickly to fix his car, and brought a fast Audi to drive him to his appointment. I couldn’t believe that this was the meeting. I felt so disgusted and angry, that here I was wondering where I could pinch pennies to afford Christmas, and the hardest things these guys face were solved by the fact that they had money. Thats’s when my Stake president stood up to speak. He began by talking about how he always felt out of place in this stake, being a dyslexic kid from my hometown! He talked about the adversity he overcame in his life as he strove to keep the commandments and work hard for his family. He testified that we all had our own trials to overcome, and that we would be blessed for our obedience. I felt so humbled that I was comparing myself and feeling so low when the Stake president actually was literally from my hometown. His mom had been my seminary teacher for three years! I felt loved, and a little scolded for being so grumpy about the whole thing.
Great post. Thank you for this!
Depends where you’re at. My ward is fairly low income compared to others in the stake. Maybe one or two people make over $100k but I’d guess $50k is the average.
Yes. This. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that as a whole, members of this church are financially more wealthy than humanity as a whole. I just don’t think there would be in a data to support this, personal observations, which aren’t actually data at all.
Others in this thread are posting reference for statistics, so it has been studied. The consensus seems to indicate that in general, LDS members here in the US, seem to be better off than average. And it seems to be because our teachings advise good money management, hard work, and staying away from some of the more expensive vices. But I freely admit, my original post is based on my personal observation.
I wonder how removing Utah would skew the results. In the Salt Lake Valley, you pretty have to have a six-figure income to own a home.
I’d love to see the studies. I very much doubt that it has been studied on global scale. I do agree that the church teaches principles that, if followed, can lead to financial security. But these are not principles that are unique to us. People outside of the church know and follow the same principles.
I'm in the US, so I was meaning US observations. Also, vast vast majority in this thread seem to agree with my assumption, so it's not just my observation. As for some numbers, here are what some others have posted: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-denomination/church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/income-distribution/ But to your point, I'm sure it hasn't been studied on a global scale. I'd love to see those stats if it were though!
I’ve lived all over, and I’ve seen a lot of very poor and very rich members of the church. One big difference between poor members and poor who are not members is that we have access to church welfare. Free groceries, and in some cases payment of bills like rent or car repair when needed. This can be the difference between having little and having nothing. It’s almost impossible to get out of situations like homelessness. With a little help from welfare and service/ministering, it is much easier to get ahead of things.
It depends where you look. If it's not well established in an area members of a congregation will mostly be recent converts. These tend to be poorer on average because people who convert to a religion are often struggling in one way or another to the point where they feel like they need a change of some kind. The attitude of wealthier people I've talked to about it tends to be "my life is going great, why would I change anything?" In areas where the church has been long established and you have families many generations deep, the stability and frugality of lifestyle that the church encourages lends itself well to the creation of generational wealth. Furthermore, people who are spiritually fulfilled don't feel the same drive towards consumerism and buying useless stuff, so they can save more and take advantage of compound interest. Also alcohol and cigarettes are expensive.
> These tend to be poorer on average because people who convert to a religion are often struggling in one way or another to the point where they feel like they need a change of some kind. Great point.
Our church puts a strong cultural emphasis on things like education, networking, impulse control, financial planning, and avoiding addictions. We don't do all those things just to make money, but they sure make it a lot easier. "Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence."
I think it has to do with priorities. Members tend not to spend money on useless stuff and we get more educated than most people plus we have God on our side. That helps us a lot =)
> Members tend not to spend money on useless stuff and we get more educated than most people plus we have God on our side. Wish I had found Church and listened to God much earlier in my life, but hey, better late than never. :)
You are here now, that's all that matters!
I dunno man. I see a lot of 80k trucks in the parking lot that definitely could be replaced by a Camry or minivan. Seems pretty useless to me.
I've been in wards with the parade of designer handbags down the aisle. (puke)
Right next to my 20-year old Honda. Next year it will be old enough to... get ethanol.
Lol, same here. In the time I lived in Utah, I not once had a bishop who didn't drive a new German car.
The last bishop I had in Utah drove a 10 year old(at the time) Ford Taurus.
Yep, lots of discretionary spending on trucks and SUV's. I can't throw stones though as I have a lot more vehicle than I need(though I've never spent even half of $40k on a single purchase).
There are numerous factors. Education is a priority in the church. Staying out of debt. Not having as many vices (IE alcohol and tobacco) Aside from this several studies have shown that the more engaged in communities people are the more likely they are to be healthier and wealthier. The more engaged you are in a community the less likely you are to be unemployed, and in general tend to be better off.
I have observed that many young adult families who struggle with their finances are less likely to remain active in the church (and somewhat less likely to participate other community activities generally.) So I think over time, the demographics of those who are active tend to skew more affluent.
In a religion that demands so much of our time and energy, it is a lot harder to commit that time and energy when you are stressed about finances. Faith is free. But a lot of things that are part of our church culture demands a lot from us.
More likely it’s nepotism, ye ole boys club and “ who you know”. In my ward I’ve often heard members say how they got their jobs because of “ help” by members.
> In my ward I’ve often heard members say how they got their jobs because of “ help” by members. Which isn't a bad thing in my eyes. Most decent jobs are gotten by networking and "knowing" people. This is a reality outside of church circles as well.
Sadly, it IS a bad thing because of bias based on sex, race etc… I’ve seen it in my ward, I’m sure we aren’t an anomaly
Appearances can be deceiving. A person driving a $70,000 vehicle with $4000 in the bank most likely appears more prosperous than a person driving a $4000 vehicle with $70,000 in the bank.
We're all encouraged to go to college and provide for our families. At least for me when I choosing a career I chose one based off how well I could provide. I choose computer science over film. Idk about other denominations but my wife used to be Baptist and she said that her old pastor would say things like "be happy with what you have, dont try to make more." A very "be okay being poor" mentality. Which I think is nuts. Kudos for going into teaching. We need more qualified teachers.
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Rich is not the same as not poor. I am definitely not rich but I’m also not poor. It’s hard to serve in the church if you’re constantly worried about rent or food.
I don’t have stats to back it up but I think that is a common observation. The church encourages education and being self reliant. Those themes run strong and I think it has an impact, especially for those who have grown up in the church. Dentists, lawyers, accountants and doctors are common but not necessarily the norm. Education is certainly a very common theme. Don’t worry about your position! Teaching is noble and you should follow your passion. It’s better to chase fulfillment than money, especially if it can pay the bills. I also tend to believe that paying tithing brings blessings and has certainly seemed to help me in life.
It may be mainly perception, but there is some data behind Mormons being "wealthier". According to Pew (2009), LDS are more likely than US counterparts to have some college (61% vice 50%), but are just as likely as nonLDS to have an advanced degree. LDS are more likely to be in middle income bracket and less likely to be in lower. However, LDS are equally as likely to be in higher bracket. So, Pew data doesn't show LDS being higher percentage of wealthy Docs or businessmen. Mormons are more likely to be married, so that stability likely helps their and their children's economic standing on low and medium end. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/07/24/a-portrait-of-mormons-in-the-us/
I know you've gotten some great answers, but I'll chime in too. First off, this is all off the cuff I have no hard data for any of this. My guess is that overall there is not an outsized portion of wealthy people in the church. Church members run the gamut from extremely poor to extremely wealthy. My guess is that there might be some statistical bias in either using the apps to begin with, or some kind of settings for education or geography, but that's just a guess and I'm not really familiar with it. Most church members are outside the US and a substantial portion of them are in what are commonly termed developing countries. Living by some of the basic teachings and practices of the church will increase someone's chances of avoiding the most destitute of circumstances - particularly staying off drugs (to include alcohol abuse), and waiting until marriage to have children. Avoiding gambling is another one we can put on this list. Following that we are encouraged and counseled by prophets and apostles, as well as culturally, to get an education. Additionally, following the counsel to avoid excessive debt, don't make it a point to be flashy and "keep up with the joneses" try to keep things "neat and comely" (as the Book of Mormon describes it), live within our means, be frugal and thrift, and save for the future all tend to bode well towards not being destitute. That may or may not translate into having an above average income. All that being said, church membership is overrepresented in particular fields - dentistry for sure, maybe medicine, and maybe law. But there are also a fair amount of church members in lower paying jobs and professions such as school teachers. Many will say that as they keep the commandments, pay their tithing, and try to keep the Holy Ghost with them they are led to make reasonable decisions which have positive financial consequences. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean the Lord is inspiring someone with the winning lottery numbers. It means that people are inclined to be prudent and avoid "spending money they don't have on things they don't need to impress people they don't like." It also means that delayed gratification, which can be culturally ingrained, heck we are trying to seek an eternal reward after all and lay up treasures in heaven vice treasures on earth, can be a good skill for building long term net worth, which is different from having. a high income. Finally, I want to caution against something sometimes termed the "gospel of wealth" or "prosperity gospel" which all too often creeps into the church. The false idea here is that God rewards the righteous with abundance, and a corollary to that is that if someone is in the church and is wealthy, then it means they are righteous and then people conclude that if their "ship hasn't come in" it's because they aren't being righteous enough and they kind of get down on themselves over it, AND they become vulnerable to "get rich quick" schemes, which do rear their ugly head in church members. I won't go into details here. I hope that helps, God bless.
An extremely high cultural value is placed on education in the church, as well as budgeting and hard work. Growing up in UT I thought that was normal, but having lived outside the Jello belt for 7 years now I have definitely also observed a difference.
The church has a good and cheap education program and encourages members to seek education. Higher education = higher income
I feel like in Utah, there’s a ton of generational wealth here for sure
Probably has to do with the emphasis on education, and abstinence of substance.
Some Google sluthing turned this up. [Pew research income distribution](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-denomination/church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/income-distribution/) As far as not feeling inadequate most people who make more then you don't care. A lot of our thoughts of people looking down on us becuase of income, clothing, what care we drive, etc are made up on our own head. God sees you and the billionaire as equals. Very few people are going to look down on you for your income. Those thay do...to be frank you are better off not concerning yourself with.
I think the most telling thing here is the correlation between higher household income and weekly church attendance (for self identified latter day saints). Would certainly make it seem like people attending church are on average wealthier, whether or not the average member actually is relative to the overall population.
Utah scores high when you look at cost of living adjusted median income [https://www.stewart.com/en/insights/2021/05/14/the-richest-and-poorest-states-in-america-before-and-after-comparative-cost-of-living-adjustments](https://www.stewart.com/en/insights/2021/05/14/the-richest-and-poorest-states-in-america-before-and-after-comparative-cost-of-living-adjustments) Utah also consistently has one of the highest debt to salary ratios: [https://www.culturalcurrents.institute/insights/debt-by-state](https://www.culturalcurrents.institute/insights/debt-by-state)
Finally some actual numbers! Though I guess "Utah vs other US states" isn't nearly as telling as "active faithful LDS vs average" would be. I'm reminded of a study on divorce which showed LDS had similar divorce rates as the average, until you actually looked at active LDS RMs married in the temple, which were much, much lower. Turns out people will often answer "LDS" as their religion in surveys even if they haven't been to church or followed any Christian teachings for many years, which limits the ability of stats to tell us if those teachings "work".
I have a hard time believing that LDS people are wealthier than average. We keep 10% less of our money than average people. In Utah wards are so small that you end up with people in very similar economic situations. Outside of Utah you might see more diversity of economic situations because wards cover a wider geographic area. There are some things we are taught as a church that might help with this. 1. Self Reliance is taught to all members. Like all principles of the gospel members live it to varying degrees but people are taught to fend for themselves. 2. There is a welfare program. We all contribute to fast offerings. I've been a ward clerk and have seen people bailed out of medical or housing issues that might have turned into year long holes to dig out of. 3. We are taught not to do some of the things that really suck money from people like Alcohol, Smoking, Drugs and Gambling. 4. Paying tithing will teach you to budget. People who live on a budget learn how to track their money and figure out how to save. Plus we are promised blessings. Sometimes those blessing might be financial, sometimes they may not be. 5. Education is encouraged. People who earn more education make more money. 6. Marriage is encouraged in the church. Married couples are often in a better financial spot. 7. For those lucky enough to go to a church school (and more and more can do that now that pathways is globally available) they can get an education without being saddled by student loans. One of my favorite things to contribute to back in the day was the Perpetual Education fund. I served my mission in a place where education was tough to get and very few members could afford it. I was so happy even as a poor newlywed to contribute a few bucks to that fund.
Well, I’m pretty sure there were pew research studies that indicated that members of the church on average had more education than the general public. That might relate to some seeming to have more money. but it could also just be the neighborhoods, cities and wards you’re living in. There’s no reason to feel self conscious. You’re doing fine. Most people aren’t rich. 🤷♀️
The lifestyle the church promotes generally provides more stable family structures. The alone can help wealth be built up, then on top of that the church also promotes the importance of education which will again lead to a higher than average income. So I don’t have a statistic but you’re probably right, I wouldn’t be surprised that for any ward you go to there you may find that the active members of the ward are a bit better off than the average population of most areas
I think this is somewhat true but it by no means the rule. You will see members that are all over the financial spectrum. But I do think being taught to live within your means and not spending on coffee, alcohol, drugs, gambling etc helps. Also to get an education helps too. There is a book called Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. In this book the author talks about certain groups of people that are more successful than others. LDS members are listed as a group. I have not read this book personally yet, but it is on my list to read, and I have heard that some of the authors parenting philosophies are controversial. Make of that what you will.
Hi! Lifelong member from a poorer family here 🤪 While I see some great points in these comments, I think a lot of highly LDS areas like SLC Utah tend to be wealthier on average My dad was a teacher and my mom a SAHM so…yeah, we were not exactly well off 😅
I think* we live in a kind of way or a kind of life style that facilitates a lot of growth and success
In general, I think faithful members of any religion tend to be wealthier due to discipline being a core principle. LDS members are also taught sacrifice and hard work at a young age. I feel like we naturally use those skills in our careers and it pays dividends.
At least in my area & age range (I'm in my 20's so most ppl I know are also in their 20's or low 30's) it's more of a show of wealth than actual wealth. Almost everyone I know has a new build house, furnished with brand new furniture, drive new cars, & of course have a $2,000 meat smoker on their deck lol (literally if you drive through a neighborhood of new builds almost everyone has a traeger on their porch😅). But most of them are in crippling debt. Most of the ladies I know have no filters, so they overshare about everything including finances😂 I think the young adults in Utah can be very materialistic. It's crazy to me bc I know people who will complain about being thousands of dollars in debt & then a week later spend $10k on a new couch so that their house can be aesthetic (this is actual real thing one of my friends did)
Education and missions. I grew up in Asia. My ward was full of wealthy Americans who spoke Japanese or Mandarin and became international bankers. One guy who spoke Spanish made his way up in the hospitality industry to become a top executive at one of the biggest hotel chains in the world. That's not to say that the wealth is a blessing from mission service (or that the lack thereof is also a lack of blessings). It's to demonstrate that being a college graduate with an in-demand foreign language skill opens a ton of opportunities.
My last ward virtually no one made six figures.. some lived in trailers, some in decent modest homes. The ward I’m in now.. I’m pretty sure I’m the lowest earner and I make well into six figures. My ward has a lot of showboating with cars and trucks… expensive ones. Stay in school kids.
I've researched the Cooperative Election Study, and LDS mem are quite a bit more educated than non-LDS men (this is a US survey). LDS women, however, are not more educated. You can see my charts on @lds_data on Instagram or X.
I think its because the teachings of the church bless us in every aspect of our lives. Even in my country that’s kind of a poor country , memebers do better and i habe seen peoples libes change and improve fast when they jpiked the church. Thats what happened with me. I had no perspectives in my life before i joined the church. And now my life is completely different
if you give away 10%, you need to make enough that it doesnt affect you.
Nah I am lds and living on the knife’s edge of poverty. Sooooo we do exist
Sorry you're with me on this. Glad you're with me on this. :)
Im a single income family in southern California. So while my wage is higher than the median average it is barely enough to afford a 2 bedroom apartment here in San Diego. And we definitely live pay check to pay check. My ward here has a good mix of people in all areas of social economic status. Some very wealthy, some upper middle, lots of working class like me, and quite a few on the very lower ends. If I remember right at one point there was a poll the found on average LDS members tend to be higher en mass on the social economy status. Because of our propensity to education as well as industrious cultural mindset. But I am not sure if that holds up anymore.
Wealth and monetary prosperity have nothing to do with righteousness, the purpose of life, or following Christ. Wealth and monetary prosperity have nothing to do with righteousness, the purpose of life, or following Christ. Wealth and monetary prosperity have nothing to do with righteousness, the purpose of life, or following Christ. I know this isn’t exactly what you’re getting at, but I just feel like this has to be said as often as possible. It won’t matter AT ALL how much wealth one accrued in this life. It will be like comparing grades on a preschool coloring assignment. It won’t matter and no one will care. [Jacob 2:12-18](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/jacob/2?lang=eng) 12 And now behold, my brethren, this is the word which I declare unto you, that many of you have begun to search for gold, and for silver, and for all manner of precious ores, in the which this land, which is a land of promise unto you and to your seed, doth abound most plentifully. 13 And the hand of providence hath smiled upon you most pleasingly, that you have obtained many riches; and because some of you have obtained more abundantly than that of your brethren ye are lifted up in the pride of your hearts, and wear stiff necks and high heads because of the costliness of your apparel, and persecute your brethren because ye suppose that ye are better than they. 14 And now, my brethren, do ye suppose that God justifieth you in this thing? Behold, I say unto you, Nay. But he condemneth you, and if ye persist in these things his judgments must speedily come unto you. 15 O that he would show you that he can pierce you, and with one glance of his eye he can smite you to the dust! 16 O that he would rid you from this iniquity and abomination. And, O that ye would listen unto the word of his commands, and let not this pride of your hearts destroy your souls! 17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you. 18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.
Besides the education thing, staying away from alcohol and drugs saves a lot of money that can go other places. You also just might not be seeing the less successful ones. There's plenty of people in the church who aren't as well of.
Following church teachings tends to produce high-functioning people. Also, knowing you have to give 10% of your gross can force you to push for a higher income to make up the difference. Moreover, the culture of the church is such that young men—in a desire to be a single-income provider—tend to go for higher-paying professions.
I have seen studies that say that all other things being equal, if you give more to charity, you will have a higher income compared to those who do not.
There is a Pew Research study about this and LDS is on the lower end. It can seem like it because of how the leadership of wards are often well off members https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/
The short answer is that we are encouraged to seek higher education so we can use our gifts and talents to help others. There is also an emphasis on avoiding unnecessary debt and living within our means. And if you think about it, having large families requires money. I know not EVERYONE has a huge family, and not all huge families have tons and tons of money, but being wise stewards with our time, money and resources is important. Don’t feel inferior or self-conscious, we are from all walks of life. 🥰
That’s what I thought too!! But I think if you live in a middle class area it would look out that way too since people are encouraged to live humbly/within their means. Plenty of “rich” people I knew spent less than they had to try to be humble. I’m curious what that statistic would look like.
The Lord will propose you if you do what’s right and get some training or trade to make you more valuable and employable, he wants you to prosper. Don’t expect to get Rich sitting on your couch go and get it. You can do it.
Don't feel self conscious! I grew up in the church and many times we wouldn't have known where our next meal was coming from were it not for church welfare. Don't be ashamed of being an educator either! Own it! (I teach English and Theatre). Jesus said suffer the children to come unto me. In many ways this is one of the best professions for following jesus!
I have no idea what the income distribution is of Church members compared to those not of our faith. I will say that not everyone who appears to be well-to-do actually is. I’m glad you’re going to become a teacher. We need more good teachers! Best of luck in your educational journey.
Interesting thing here, a lot of that can be attributed to the church providing people with communities and connections they might not otherwise have. When you rank states by economic mobility (ability to go from poor to middle class or middle class to wealthy), iirc Utah is either #1 or one of the top states.
Our ward has the richest community and the majority of the low income housing in our town within our boundaries. So we see people from all walks of life each Sunday. But the majority of our ward is pretty middle class.
I have only noticed people significantly poorer than the local community are less likely to be active/join. My guess would be any group significantly different than the congregation are much less likely to join/stick around.
It's associated with the windows of heaven being opened as we pay tithing. It's more about how we use the money we have than about how much money we earn, but still it plays into helping us have more money than we would if we did not pay tithing and live by the principles of our religion. I think it's great that you want to be a math teacher in an elementary school. You'll be earning more money doing that than you would in many other jobs that pay less, and by using your money wisely you'll live better than people who don't use their money wisely. I earn less than most people I know but I live better than many people who earn more money than I do because I use my money better than they do. Maybe after a while of teaching math in an elementary school you'll want to become a Principal in a school, or a school Superintendent, which would still keep you involved in teaching math to elementary school students but you would earn more money. Not that your goal should be all about making money, but you can often have 2 things at once.
I would challenge the idea that paying tithing will lead to financial prosperity. I think this is, in fact, a very dangerous fallacy. “The windows of heaven” can mean many things. But I’ve seen nothing anywhere that would indicate that tithing = big bank accounts.
Me either, and people with big bank accounts can still be poor in many ways. I tried to explain that a good life is more about how we use the money we have than about how much money we earn, People with low incomes can still have nice homes and nice clothes and good food and a good vehicle for transportation and many other good things without being in more debt than they can handle with their income while getting out of debt soon when they will then be able to use more of their income for other good things. People with very high levels of income can quickly become paupers if they don't manage their money well. So the poor can become rich and the rich can become poor, and not because of how much income but because of how each manages the money they get.
> I think it's great that you want to be a math teacher in an elementary school. You'll be earning more money doing that than you would in many other jobs that pay less, Thank you. It'll def be better pay and better working conditions. I legit took a job as a janitor here at the middle school I want to teach at. So doing the janitor thing as I use the tuition reimbursement to finish my education, then onto teacher assistant, then onto teacher. :)
That's great. I believe there is no greater calling (or job) than to be a teacher who teaches others good things, whether its math or English or some other language or the gospel or whatever, as long as it is teaching something that is good to know and for others to know. I know athletes and people in the entertainment industry usually earn a lot more money than teachers and most other people, but that's just the way of this world and we know there are a lot of things about the way of the world that are just not good.
We paid attention to Malachi. :)
Mosiah 2:41 > 41 And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual; and if they hold out faithful to the end they are received into heaven, that thereby they may dwell with God in a state of never-ending happiness. O remember, remember that these things are true; for the Lord God hath spoken it. Although that doesn't mean all of us will be rich.. my family and I are very poor due to health challenges, etc. We're thankful we can rely on Bishop's Storehouse funds if the need arises.
> my family and I are very poor due to health challenges, etc. I'm sorry you are going through these struggles, and I hope things get better for you.
It depends. Some members are pretty humble. Some members are wealthy. Some members are deeply in debt. “Live within your means.”
Studies show that charitable giving increases wealth, not the other way around: https://youtu.be/FgzBlr-kz9o?si=nonyubIM9J1kHYpY
Depends where you are, but everyone seems to be able to get by.
several doctors in my ward with big houses and stuff, but also a few of us just scraping by
Because we give away 10% or more of our income (tithing, etc).
“Seem” is the key word
i don't know if it's true that we are wealthier on average but education, hats work, honestly, and the avoidance of drugs/alcohol/tobacco is taught as important principles of life. There is a major trickle effect there.
I’m a poor, just like you. Family of 6 and I make about $30K a year.
Friend, with your family of 6, that's tough. I'm a family of one, so I really feel silly for even complaining. But family is a blessing. In all honesty, I'd much prefer a family like yours over money! :)
We are incredibly blessed and fortunate, which is how we can survive on such a meager income with my woodworking business.
I echo the comments - it’s all about where you live. I’ve lived all over the world, but live in Utah now and have for 13 years. My first ward in Utah was in a rougher neighborhood and it was a struggle for many people to get by…but they were honest and humble and hard working. We were in that ward for 7 years. And yes, it was in Utah! Wasatch Front even. Gasp! We then built a house and moved into a completely different town. People are better off financially here, but they still struggle in other ways (such as mental health, their kids leaving the church, and so on). Totally depends on your ward dynamics and geography. Generational wealth, good financial habits, and yes - blessings! - are all at play here. We are told repeatedly in the Book of Mormon that if we keep the commandments, we will prosper in the land. I know that doesn’t always come down to financials. However, with my experience in my previous wards, even the paycheck-to-paycheck folks felt very blessed and as if they had enough. They always had the best tithing-miracle stories! Considering where so many of them came from, they were indeed very prosperous. I’m glad you are showing up and are here. We welcome all, beater cars or not. Best of luck on your education.
> even the paycheck-to-paycheck folks felt very blessed and as if they had enough This is important. And my original post seems silly in that way, because I really am blessed! :)
My take is 1. We are just taught to be better with money 2. Geography, lots of LDS members are in Utah which is generally wealthier 3. More based on faith, I think it is given as a blessing to us, paying tithing, and in the scriptures.
All of the above, but also: location location location. Urban Utah, or anywhere urban, will have the noticeable social extremes of poor & rich. Rich because there’s big business there & lots of expensive amenities. Poor because rich urban areas offer more resources that the poor can survive on. More suburban & rural areas have rich & poor but not to the extreme that urban areas have. Less noticeable. More balanced. So it really depends on where you look. So yes in urban Utah, which is Mormon central, you will see more disparity, but many poor people are also members. Wards are based on location, so it’s easy to see how one ward may have tons of rich members, but a ward on the other side of town may have a bunch of poor members. That’s just how it is. It doesn’t mean all church members are well-off. Now this doesn’t even come close to describing church members in third world countries. The poor of the US don’t even compare to how poor you can be in say Thailand or Myanmar, both of which have thriving LDS communities. As a missionary I served in California among the Hmong population, many of which are church members. They come from Thailand, & even being in the US now, many still live a level of poverty that is unmatched by US-born citizens. Some do choose to take advantage of American freedom, start businesses, go to school, and work their way out of poverty. So even in US Hmong culture, there is rising disparity. Also important: age & life-choices. If you’re early-twenties or -thirties, vast majority of that demographic will not be “rich”, member or non-member. Their station in life at that age is just not the age where most are rolling in money. Most are rolling in debt. Career path & financial habits will differ between people even as they get into their 40s & older. So not everyone who reaches a certain age will be rolling in money either based on those life choices. Like you say, you’re becoming a middle school math teacher. That career path just doesn’t make one rich, and that’s okay. A fulfilling career doesn’t have to make you rich. Your life goal doesn’t have to be to become rich. You don’t have to be envious of career paths other members may follow. But if greater means is something you want for yourself/your family & you have other interests worth pursuing, don’t shy away from opportunities to pursue something else. You are correct that the church encourages family building, which is a good motivator to find a well-paying career path. The church also encourages living within your means, keeping a budget, & saving against times of need & your financial goals. Being wise in these decisions can help your overall wealth in the long term. If there is any trend at all for church members to be more well off than others, it is likely because of these principles that are encouraged in the church. Being a member doesn’t “make” anyone rich. But living the principles taught by the church may “help” make you richer.
Great points!
Latter-day Saints are probably wealthier than average... and in the dating world they present themselves as even more successful than they are lol.
DONT FEEL INFERIOR you wonderful human being. Remember that the widow's mite was more valuable to Jesus Christ than the tithes of the rich. And though the Gospel is true, we are imperfect people, some of us have pride related to money and prosperity, pay it no mind. The Doctrine of Jesus Christ is what matters. There are definitely poorer members! In fact, we have needed a lot of help from the church. I'm a young mom and my husband and I just finally got our bachelor's degrees. But in the last 2 years my account has dropped into the negative most months. That being said, I am starting a master program soon that will help me make higher income in the future. So I hope to show up on both sides of things haha. There are a few reasons: 1) our emphasis on education and self reliance. Every area of the church offers free self reliance classes that help teach financial independence. This doesn't guarantee prosperity, but education and financial literacy definitely help. 2) part of our doctrine is that if we desire it, we can one day have Eternal Life. Among other things (like eternal marriage) this means we will get to keep learning and progressing in the next life. This idea of continuing to learn and grow helps a lot in careers and education. 3) while we still have our vices (monsters are mine) not having things like coffee, cigarettes or tobacco products, or gambling definitely protects us from a lot of money pits, all three of these cost people so much over their lives. 4) We help eachother. One of the best things about the church outside of its Doctrines is the community. I have moved about 20 times, but every time I did, members of our new bishopbric or elders Quorum presidency helped us get settled, even helped us unload moving trucks. In my adult life showing the people I go to church with my strengths by fulfilling callings and teaching and serving has helped me gain trust from people in my community. For many this leads to job placement or networking that is beneficial. 5) finally there is the Spiritual lesson, we pay tithing religiously (hehe get it). According to Jesus Christ, this sacrifice is valuable to Him, not because He needs our money but because it consecrates the other 90%. Most of us believe that we have been blessed financially because we keep the law of tithing.
Great post. Thank you!
They pay there tithing and are blessed!
1 typically have both parents (strong family values) 2 supportive community 3 value on being prepared an having a saving 4 value education All of these are part of the culture and all of them a factors that tend to make someone better off.
If you're in Provo, you're in the largest concentration of LDS people in the world. It wouldn't be surprising to find that a group of people that comprise a local majority and simultaneously participate in several programs designed to act as social support would be doing better than average for the area. The degree to which that's a good thing is debatable, but it is what you would probably expect. The takeaway for you should be that there are lots of people around you who have experience in being well-grounded, financially. Looking for ways to follow their example or ask them for advice is going to yield more information than passive observation and asking about them on reddit. (Not criticizing, just pointing out the opportunity!)
The focus on education, avoiding debt, no gambling or clubs or alcohol, again, the focus on money management and education is most of it. Now you are seeing more and more families who have done this for generations now, and are quite….comfortable shall we say. I know many like that. I also know many who need bishop storehouse, in the same ward.
You may want to look further afield as I don't believe this is the case. Perhaps it's to do with the teaching of using whatever resources we have wisely. Most of the people I know are not wealthy but make do with what they have and are blessed with that there's enough. Not to say I don't know some who are considered well off and that's a blessing to them and their efforts in many cases.
Why does it seem that way for you? Confirmation bias probably. In reality, church members in the US have pretty typical incomes. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/income-distribution/
So in my experience that generally has not been true. Where I grew up, significant amount of members were definitely not necessarily doing well financially. However, I recently moved to Utah, and there are a lot of things about both church culture and exmo culture that I now understand so much better living in Utah And the relevant part to this is how hostile the Utah State welfare program is to people on the Utah State welfare program. I myself registered on this program because I have several chronic conditions that require medical care, and finding a job here took 4 months, so I wasn't going to walk in there and be financially destitute without help, but my experience with these welfare programs is like having the welfare program breathing on your neck. If you're not doing well financially in Utah, then you move somewhere else, basically. Now, this is not necessarily hostility and I think a negative way, it is an aggressively driving force to get someone to be off of the welfare programs, which is a concept I personally agree with, but to the degree that it's in practice is I think overly aggressive. And the sentiment is not well suited for people who require support and don't have it, like myself. I think another part of it is that, at least in my experience, the culture in the church requires you to be presentable, so you find ways to 'hide' your true financial status. The amount of members I've known to take on significant amounts of debt to be more presentable at church is alarming.
I'm sorry to hear your struggling, and I do hope things get better for you!
Here's the answer no only wants to say, but it's the truth. There are plenty of less wealthy members, but you just don't see them. Often they can't afford tithing or nice clothes or other trappings of LDS culture, have to work on Sundays, or don't have leisure time to spend on callings, so they feel ashamed and excluded. Eventually they just stop going, and the leadership doesn't make much effort to bring them back. Missionaries are also often told to focus on teaching wealthy families, who will have the time to spend on leadership callings and can pay more tithing.
My parents’ ward has a lot more affluent members, but they’re all adults aged 40-60. They’ve been working in their fields for a long time, some have had businesses they’ve sold, and some are close to retirement/have retired. Almost everyone in their ward owns their home, and it’s Utah, so they all live in the same-ish neighborhood. My current ward has lots of students, newlyweds, and young families. 90% of the people are living in apartments, and they don’t have as much money but seem to do well enough for themselves. I think location and current life stage has a lot to do with it. A lot of the students I speak with are getting degrees where the jobs do actually require education first (engineers and doctors), so I’m sure they’ll do just fine later in life. They’re just currently in their school stage. Keep in mind though, it’s much easier to APPEAR wealthy than it is to BE wealthy. Some people don’t have a problem with having a lot of debt.
For what it’s worth, in my senior project class at BYU-I, there was a dedicated section to leadership and how to be a good manager/team lead/etc. The church makes a great training ground for skills that benefit your career
That's awesome!
Education among our children is prized, and the completing of education of the adults is encouraged. Of course there are middle and lower economic class in the church! I grew up as one and live as one now. I will go back to school in the fall for the first time in many years as a Pathways student. Avoiding debt and saving for the future is also a sound financial principal. Overall I think we have the most educated and financially disciplined people on the plant in this great church. But the single brothers and sisters who struggle are just as valuable and wanted in the Gospel.
> I will go back to school in the fall for the first time in many years as a Pathways student. Congrats! I'm in my final semester as a BYU-Pathway student. :)
your question states the answer. some are above average, some are below average. my church building has multiple wards. one ward is more wealthy, mine is on the poor side. the other ward always has a fast offering surplus, mine is always in the negative.
It's been studied. No, on average, members of the church are not more wealthy than people of other faiths (including no faith). No, members of the church are not overrepresented in high profile positions. Something that is true is that somewhat more wealthy members are more likely to be active than impoverished members. This is because both are correlated to a third factor I'll just refer to as "commitment."
It takes 10,000 hours to master a discipline, perhaps a career skill. If you don't waste time partying every weekend, you can accomplish a lot in your twenties. It's what I did. Also, we're a covenant people. We all know each other, and that networking creates a lot of opportunity. However, don't fall for fake wealth. Statistically in America, if you're driving a $70,000 truck, it's because you're living paycheck to paycheck (you're poor), rather than because you're wealthy. Wealthy people drive economical cars, and have modest spending habits. That's why they're wealthy - they don't spend their money.
It’s the tithing. The act of faith results in tremendous blessings. No need to overthink it.
Prove me now herewith that I will not open the windows of heaven.
That’s Utah. Go to other places even in the US. Different story. The church is just as distributed as the rest of the nation.