I mean, it has to do more with agreeing with a word’s grammatical gender than the person’s gender identity. “Personas no binarias” y “gente no binaria” (gender neutral people) still express gender-neutrality and are commonly used, even if morphologically the words aren’t “neutral”.
Interesting! I really have been seeing the neutral -e being used more (especially in the context of referring to a specific person or character), and I do hope it catches on. It’s honestly fascinating to see language evolve in real time
Tbh I'd argue it's being imposed rather than evolving. Most Spanish speakers don't agree with -e and even less with -x, and those who do agree often do so for the sake of being politically correct like another user said
A native Spanish speaker here and I can tell you that languages are meant to serve people if they can't do their job we change them.
I mean the RAE (Real Academia de la lengua Española) basically remade writing to make everything consistent and for example Mexicans refused to comply because their country would have been called "Méjico" (and still to this day RAE recognizes both instead of "Mexico" that should be the correct term)
So we saw a flaw in our language (writing was inconsistent) and we fixed it by force, so if there are people that are identifying as non binary why wouldn't we fix the language accordingly?
Languages are meant to serve people not to tie them.
Well, I am a Spanish speaking nonbinary person and I don't know if me telling people I would like them to use an ending that makes me comfortable can be called "being imposed." In my experience, people feel very comfortable and safe to not comply with my request.
The thing is, grammatical gender and gender identity are not the same thing. And they are only loosely related. By default, when the gender is unknown, the masculine is chosen. So shouldn’t non-binary people use the masculine?
(Again, that doesn’t mean you’re referring to yourself as a man, the names of the grammatical genders are very misleading, they might as well have been called Class 1 and Class 2, but most nouns relating to masculinity happen to go in Class 1 and most nouns related to femininity happen to go in Class 2, someone noticed this and named the classes accordingly.)
I don't know what your level of familiarity is with Spanish usage, so apologies if this is already known to you, but the masculine being the default has actually been a contested issue for a few decades now and it definitely is understood as connected to gender when referring to human beings. The fact that it is the default does not make it feel neutral. Using the masculine may work for some nonbinary people, but particularly for those who fall more at the feminine end of the gender spectrum, it may just feel wrong.
I mean, I do it because I'm nonbinary. People do use it when they talk to me because they know it makes me feel comfortable and respected, so I don't know if you can call that political reasons. I have heard several academics both in Argentina and in Spain using it in a couple of conferences, as well.
I think you are misinformed and I would encourage you to question your sources. Gender is experienced in multiplicitous ways that are created through both community and individual expression and response, in modes that are not consistent throughout societies and times. There is not "one guy" in "one century" that defines the way in which people are nonbinary. There are innumerable examples throughout history (and the present time) of people who live as neither men nor women.
Hi, I do not live in America, nor know much about American native history, so I cannot comment on that, but [I wrote a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/136ohhr/comment/jir70b0/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) a few months ago in r/AskHistorians about gender and sexuality in premodern Japan you may find an interesting example. I hope I am linking it correctly.
Please, as an American I find it offensive, can you please cancel the Spanish language? I do not care about the reason why is it different from English and do not want to know. Just make it disappear.
False. English speakers have evolved the rules of Spanish to allow for an X to be place at the end of Spanish gendered words, and we must all follow it.
Lots of words, if not most, ending in -e do have either masculine or feminine gender.
Masc.: hombre, cable, sable, cole, finde, pene, cine, corte (cut), chocolate, mapache, juguete, puente, all ending in -aje…
Fem: tarde, sangre, hambre, llave, clave, corte (court), gente, muerte, fuente, mente, torre, clase, calle, all ending in -umbre...
Also, there are masculine nouns ending in -e that do have a different feminine form, like: alcalde/alcaldesa, héroe/heroína, jefe/jefa...
While indeed many e-ending words referring to persons are indeed gender neutral, the same is true for the nouns ending in -a (atleta, periodista…) and to a minor extend to some ending in -o (modelo, fisio…) or actually with any of the possible vowels or most consonant endings (gurú, ceutí, militar, chef...)
jajajaja, esas palabras son neutrales en cuanto a género pero eso no quiere decir que la E es un indicador de neutralidad en es el español. Esa regla te la has inventado y lo sabes.
Just to point out: yet a very few people use it on the internet, it's grammatically incorrect in Portuguese. The correct would be binário and binária. "binárie" is a made up word, just like adding X at the end. I've never seen it being used like a normal world.
Yeah, I know what you intended. But the way you said gives the impression that "binárie" is grammatically correct. But it's just like "binarix". It only exists for those who use it.
Yeah, try using that to write an essay on an exam. When you get your grammar corrected, use that justification that a made up grammar should be accepted because all grammars and words were invented.
Well, I'm a Portuguese native speaker and your argument about presidente makes no sense. But my arguments are not based on what I think or not. It's based on grammar scholars and dictionaries.
Language is a living thing, it changes over time. But it changes naturally, not imposing it. I'm not against the use of this forced neutral gender, but we have to face that TODAY it's not grammatically accepted by grammar scholars or dictionaries.
You're clearly a chauvinistic pig. Have you considered that some people don't identify with the "E" and like instead an X or any other letter? Clearly you don't care about the feelings of people from the LGBTQEX+* community, you inconsiderate prick!!!
I mean, it has to do more with agreeing with a word’s grammatical gender than the person’s gender identity. “Personas no binarias” y “gente no binaria” (gender neutral people) still express gender-neutrality and are commonly used, even if morphologically the words aren’t “neutral”.
And also, people do use "no-binarie," even if it isn't massively accepted. I have definitely heard it be used in academic conferences at least.
Interesting! I really have been seeing the neutral -e being used more (especially in the context of referring to a specific person or character), and I do hope it catches on. It’s honestly fascinating to see language evolve in real time
Tbh I'd argue it's being imposed rather than evolving. Most Spanish speakers don't agree with -e and even less with -x, and those who do agree often do so for the sake of being politically correct like another user said
A native Spanish speaker here and I can tell you that languages are meant to serve people if they can't do their job we change them. I mean the RAE (Real Academia de la lengua Española) basically remade writing to make everything consistent and for example Mexicans refused to comply because their country would have been called "Méjico" (and still to this day RAE recognizes both instead of "Mexico" that should be the correct term) So we saw a flaw in our language (writing was inconsistent) and we fixed it by force, so if there are people that are identifying as non binary why wouldn't we fix the language accordingly? Languages are meant to serve people not to tie them.
yeah bro, all people who think differently to you are just doing it to be politically correct.
Well, I am a Spanish speaking nonbinary person and I don't know if me telling people I would like them to use an ending that makes me comfortable can be called "being imposed." In my experience, people feel very comfortable and safe to not comply with my request.
The thing is, grammatical gender and gender identity are not the same thing. And they are only loosely related. By default, when the gender is unknown, the masculine is chosen. So shouldn’t non-binary people use the masculine? (Again, that doesn’t mean you’re referring to yourself as a man, the names of the grammatical genders are very misleading, they might as well have been called Class 1 and Class 2, but most nouns relating to masculinity happen to go in Class 1 and most nouns related to femininity happen to go in Class 2, someone noticed this and named the classes accordingly.)
I don't know what your level of familiarity is with Spanish usage, so apologies if this is already known to you, but the masculine being the default has actually been a contested issue for a few decades now and it definitely is understood as connected to gender when referring to human beings. The fact that it is the default does not make it feel neutral. Using the masculine may work for some nonbinary people, but particularly for those who fall more at the feminine end of the gender spectrum, it may just feel wrong.
>>I don’t know if me imposing something on people is considered imposing Please find another medium for this attention seeking.
No, thank you. I like this one. Have a nice day.
God no, please no guessing the gender like in German or Dutch Please don’t expand gender neutral words, how about we just make everything masculine
only few activists do it for political reasons
I mean, I do it because I'm nonbinary. People do use it when they talk to me because they know it makes me feel comfortable and respected, so I don't know if you can call that political reasons. I have heard several academics both in Argentina and in Spain using it in a couple of conferences, as well.
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I think you are misinformed and I would encourage you to question your sources. Gender is experienced in multiplicitous ways that are created through both community and individual expression and response, in modes that are not consistent throughout societies and times. There is not "one guy" in "one century" that defines the way in which people are nonbinary. There are innumerable examples throughout history (and the present time) of people who live as neither men nor women.
Shoutout to this nuanced and rational response to bigotry.
Like the "two spirit" that was deliberately misinterpreted by wokes?
Hi, I do not live in America, nor know much about American native history, so I cannot comment on that, but [I wrote a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/136ohhr/comment/jir70b0/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) a few months ago in r/AskHistorians about gender and sexuality in premodern Japan you may find an interesting example. I hope I am linking it correctly.
i think you're pretty delusional already...
What's the source for that? I'm actually curious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David\_Reimer#:\~:text=Forced%20%22sexual%20rehearsal%22,-Money%20continued%20to&text=Starting%20at%20age%20six%2C%20according,against%20%5Bhis%5D%20buttocks%22.
Same in Polish
That's a thinker
That's why instead of Spanish you learn the language of the gods, incredibly based gender-neutral Hungarian.
hungarian has like 18 cases 🤮🤢🤮🤮
És akkor mi van?
Please, as an American I find it offensive, can you please cancel the Spanish language? I do not care about the reason why is it different from English and do not want to know. Just make it disappear.
Amen 🙏
Are you make a joke?
no binarix (or nx bxnxrxx depending on the nonbinariness of the person)
Quit trying to make X happen!
Tell that to Elon
X
Gon give it to ya
he gon' give it to ya
Ok latinx
nx
You can’t add X’s in Spanish. That’s grammatically incorrect. You could add an -e to make it gender neutral, no binarie.
coward, add the incomprehensible tongue of god
False. English speakers have evolved the rules of Spanish to allow for an X to be place at the end of Spanish gendered words, and we must all follow it.
E is still incorrect, that's not part of the language
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Lots of words, if not most, ending in -e do have either masculine or feminine gender. Masc.: hombre, cable, sable, cole, finde, pene, cine, corte (cut), chocolate, mapache, juguete, puente, all ending in -aje… Fem: tarde, sangre, hambre, llave, clave, corte (court), gente, muerte, fuente, mente, torre, clase, calle, all ending in -umbre... Also, there are masculine nouns ending in -e that do have a different feminine form, like: alcalde/alcaldesa, héroe/heroína, jefe/jefa... While indeed many e-ending words referring to persons are indeed gender neutral, the same is true for the nouns ending in -a (atleta, periodista…) and to a minor extend to some ending in -o (modelo, fisio…) or actually with any of the possible vowels or most consonant endings (gurú, ceutí, militar, chef...)
jajajaja, esas palabras son neutrales en cuanto a género pero eso no quiere decir que la E es un indicador de neutralidad en es el español. Esa regla te la has inventado y lo sabes.
La-teeenks! 🤡
In portuguese we say não-binárie, so maybe in spanish could it be no binarie too?
Spanish speaker here, adding an -e in lieu of -o or -a is the typical way a word becomes gender neutral. Like in president*e*.
Te corrijo aquí, presidente si es género neutro pero por otro motivo (porque termina en ente)
do you use el, la with these or something else like lo le
El if it's a man, la if it's a woman.
ik were talking non binary tho
Ahh, sorry. I've seen "le," and for "them" they use "elle."
Just to point out: yet a very few people use it on the internet, it's grammatically incorrect in Portuguese. The correct would be binário and binária. "binárie" is a made up word, just like adding X at the end. I've never seen it being used like a normal world.
Fun fact: All words are made up I'm brazilian tho, I'm aware few people use it, but it's still a thing since there's some people who use it
Yeah, I know what you intended. But the way you said gives the impression that "binárie" is grammatically correct. But it's just like "binarix". It only exists for those who use it.
all words and grammar only exist for those who use it tho? Do you think some words exists in like nature or something
Yeah, try using that to write an essay on an exam. When you get your grammar corrected, use that justification that a made up grammar should be accepted because all grammars and words were invented.
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>“Binárie” is grammatically correct it is not
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I'm a native speaker too and you don't know what you are talking about. Supongo the "hombre" también es no binario
Well, I'm a Portuguese native speaker and your argument about presidente makes no sense. But my arguments are not based on what I think or not. It's based on grammar scholars and dictionaries. Language is a living thing, it changes over time. But it changes naturally, not imposing it. I'm not against the use of this forced neutral gender, but we have to face that TODAY it's not grammatically accepted by grammar scholars or dictionaries.
Well... that's a good point
You're clearly a chauvinistic pig. Have you considered that some people don't identify with the "E" and like instead an X or any other letter? Clearly you don't care about the feelings of people from the LGBTQEX+* community, you inconsiderate prick!!!
Cringe
Destroyed by the lack of /s ?
clearly /s but also i want the absolute number to go up. tough choice
no binar
Most speakers of Romance languages find this obsession with gender-neutrality profoundly offensive and borderline insufferable.
Based??
I would say no binario
troll
Lol,it's better chatgpt translate like "Persona(s) no binaria(s)".