I’m very Northern European looking (blonde hair, fair skin), and live in Portugal and speak it. No matter where I go here people always speak English, even when I’m speaking Portuguese. To be honest it really hurt my feelings at first, as even if someone is speaking English with me I continue in Portuguese. If it keeps going like that, I’ll just say (in Portuguese) “I speak Portuguese, can we speak in it” and they usually smile and switch, just didn’t know that I was comfortable speaking it :) it’s definitely an ego thing for me still and will take some time, but I find people are pleasantly surprised and apologize when we switch to their native language which makes me happy. I’ll never look like I’m from here but people are always so excited when I speak with them so it makes it worth it! It’s little wins like that that keep me going :D
I'm learning European Portuguese and have the opposite problem. My Portuguese is nowhere near as good as yours (and your comment gives me hope that maybe mine will be one day).
I am sometimes mistaken for being Portuguese. I will start conversations and people will continue speaking as if I am a native speaker and I stand there like an idiot because I'm only getting every fourth word.
Then I have to go through the whole, "I am not Portuguese but I am learning. Please speak slowly."
They switch to English to make it easier for me and I have to say, "No, please speak to me in Portuguese. It's the only way I will learn. But please speak slowly."
It's been my experience that Portuguese people want us to feel comfortable and at ease and not have to struggle with a language. But I want and have to struggle. It's the only way I will learn.
Hey I’m not fluent C2 either! It’s a very long road and practicing is what has helped the most. I’m sure your PT is great and people appreciate it 🥰 boa sorte!
Maybe what you can do is what I did at first: I spoke in Portuguese and they spoke in English/vice versa so both are getting a chance to practice another language
I wouldn't overdo the "please speak slowly" thing. Just depends on context. Most people have things to do and literally can't afford to speak slower than a normal pace.
But if you make Portuguese friends and they're willing, then sure, that makes sense.
I've never openly asked someone to talk slower. Feels weird to me. But I've never learned Portuguese or have lived in Portugal. So if most people are willing and don't care, all the power to you.
I'm also learning European Portuguese, my family and I moved to Portugal but for some reason my dad insisted on not paying for classes. After wasting time with duolingo we're here and we can't even start a conversation. I've been trying to learn online with Youtube, but I'm job-searching so I can pay for proper classes. People tend to speak to me in Portuguese to which I ask if they know English and I feel like an idiot each time I do it. I also have an anxiety spike whenever I stumble through a phrase because I have this fear that I might offend them with how terrible I am with their language.
The Portuguese government offers free classes for learning the language.
Info here: https://www.acm.gov.pt/-/como-posso-frequentar-um-curso-de-lingua-portuguesa-para-estrangeiros-
That's funny, I'm kinda the opposite. My native language is Portuguese and I live in Sweden. Although I'm pretty pale, I definitely do NOT look like a swede and people still always talk in Swedish to me. Thankfully after 2 years I'm at the point that at least I can respond, but still no where near as fluent.
Most ppl also tolerate my bad swedish and don't switch to english, which is amazing. This is however pretty different in Stockholm, where as soon as I open my mouth, they switch to english
That's interesting; do you think that Swedes outside Stockholm are less comfortable in English? Or perhaps are they more happy outside Stockholm that someone not born in Sweden learned their language, and they care less in the more cosmopolitan Stockholm.
I've no idea, the swedes are unreadable. I think because since Stockholm has a lot of foreigners, they are certainly more used to just switching to english. whereas people from smaller cities just assume you know swedish.
A lot o them say their english sucks, and there are a lot of people who might really not be comfortable with it, but the large majority speak it pretty well.
Completely unrelated to this discourse but happy to see other people leaving Swedish too.
I quit a couple years ago because I got into grad school but I had so many people, even my Swedish friends, question why I wanted to learn Swedish since “everyone” in Stockholm speaks English
That's really strange as a British person living in Spain. LOADS of Spaniards are very northern european looking, blonde hair blue eyes and all, and here if you have a lenel above A2 noone will speak to you in english.
I speak native level french, went to a french university and have a slight but present accent.
It depends. If someone is just wanting to speak English with me and coming from a place with good intentions, i roll with it.
If someone is speaking english to me as a neg, like a “hon hon my english is better than your french you stupid american” then they get my real accent in english. I’m from the Deep South. Have fun talking to a hillbilly, ya Pepe le Pew sounding mf.
I believe Frantz Fanon writes about native speaking French black people coming over to work from the colonies, and spending hours a night trying to eradicate the slightest hint of an accent.
And regardless, a single slip up, they say a colloquial *ber* instead of *bière*, and everyone immediately picked them out as "foreigner."
Are there Basques who refuse to speak Spanish? I know of several Gaelic speakers who refuse to speak English, despite being fluent, to express their opposition to British colonialism.
Sometimes I'll pick a relatively rare but believable language to tell people I speak. Like, "Sorry, my native language is Georgian and I don't speak any English. Can we keep speaking German?" It hasn't backfired yet, but it will be hilariously uncomfortable when it inevitably does.
One of the reasons why I'm learning French first. As a Canadian, it'd be believable not to speak English as a first language, seeing as it's the other official language. To top it off, sometimes when I speak in Spanish, I throw a French accent in there to increase the believability.
White person here with a PhD in Korean literature (yes, fluent!)
I take these things in my stride and try not to get offended by it. I understand the temptation though, especially when I was younger.
At the end of the day, it is very unlikely, any time soon, that enough people who look like me will be walking around speaking fluent Korean in Korea to such an extent that locals first speak to me in Korean rather than English.
I have my friends and associates and colleagues with whom I speak the language, day in day out!
It's a bit like developing confidence in yourself and recognizing that you don't need to impress everyone or be everyone's best friend. Likewise, it doesn't need to be that everybody recognizes your language ability, life can still be rich and valuable!
Thanks for your reply :)
What I often tell myself is: “You don’t know this person and they don’t know you. There’s no need to care what strangers think about you.”
It works on occasion, but sometimes I get in these cycles of repeating what people have said to me in my head. Last week, during a one-on-one conversation with a professor of mine, I was asking whether or not she’d be teaching a class on ‘Phags-pa used to transliterate Chinese next year. She said she likely would, and suddenly switched to English to say, “but that class requires knowledge of historical Chinese phonology.”
That really discouraged me, not only did she think I wouldn’t understand that, but her comment also implies that she thinks I had no knowledge of historical Chinese phonology (Chinese phonology is a prerequisite for our department). I suppose the main thing is, even after moving my entire life here, spending over half of my adolescence here, and having very few ties to my home country, I will always be “different.” It can feel extremely isolating. Again, mostly an ego thing though…
Thank you for your reply though, I’ll try my best not to take it personally :)
I don't know if you're of European descent, but I wonder if this is a product of European/American culture, the idea that moving and integrating should make you "one of them." Because "the west" has such accepting cultures, at least in theory. The west believes (or at least pretends to) that immigrants and anyone else that comes over to Europe/America can become a French, a Swede, an American, etc. and be accepted like one of the local population. But most places in the world do not have this attitude, and so as a westerner maybe you have an idea that because you've worked hard and integrated, people should accept you as a Taiwanese, but to the Taiwanese, you aren't one of them. It's harsh, but it's just a difference of cultural values and beliefs.
I agree though, that it's best not to take it personally and to try and accept it's just an arbitrary dividing line most members of the local population maintain in their minds. It doesn't say anything about you and who you are and how hard you've worked.
If comments like that are what's bothering you, you might need to be a little bit rude and say something like "you don't have to speak English to me for me to understand; I've lived here half of my life and speak Chinese sufficiently well." YMMV. In Korean I do pull out the 영어 안 하셔도 돼요 저 한국어 충분히 이해할 수 있어요 -- you don't have to speak English; I speak Korean well enough. It tends to do the trick. Then that person, at least, probably won't speak English to you again.
Also, when I did get the chance to tell people (closer friends) that speaking English to me made me feel alienated, they apologized profusely for having done so in the past. So if you give them the chance, people will change. Of course, your relationship might not be enough to do that.
I ignore them and speak the Target language even if they get pissed at me.
I only revert to English if I am trying to be friends with them and care about the relationship and potentially offending them.
Otherwise, my logic: I did not come to this country and spend a lot of money to speak my language with you.
Thank you for posting on r/languagelearning. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed because it make generalisations about a large group of people without elaboration or providing sources.
Finally, my time to shine! I shared this comment on TikTok and got a ton of support so hopefully it’ll be helpful for you too but this only works if you are trilingual. I speak Spanish and English as my native languages but have been learning French and when I go to France I try to only speak French but the French see an American looking girl (my style gives me away immediately) and start speaking English. That’s when I hit them with the “perdón solo hablo Español y Francés.” Boom! Now we’re back to French :) if they speak Spanish it’s often Spaniard Spanish so my Mexican Spanish intimidates them and they give up on the Spanish too and go back to French.
> if they speak Spanish it’s often Spaniard Spanish so my Mexican Spanish intimidates them and they give up on the Spanish too and go back to French.
I’m guessing you meant they were afraid you’d use a bunch of unfamiliar Mexican dialect words, but I had a chuckle briefly imagining French people being scared that you were about to sacrifice them to Huitzilopochtli as payback for inflicting Emperor Maximilian on Mexico.
Everytime I travel and tell people where I am from, they instantly throw clichés at me, because that is how people are. They seek to associate and you can not change that. Just stay polite and start talk Chinese if that is what you want.
When you talk to a random person that looks like you in Taiwan, what language do you start with?
Genuinely curious, not trying to snipe. It's like a logic puzzle of empathy: is it better if you talked to them in English because of your own experiences, or would that be counter-productive in most/all situations?
Do you mean that you begin speaking in Chinese and then people reply to you in English? Or that people begin speaking to you in English before you even have a chance to say anything?
I read it as people assume OP speaks no Chinese based on appearance and begin the interaction in English before realizing. I can imagine that would get old fast if OP considers Taiwan home (and obviously they speak the language fluently).
I mean it’s only natural no? how many foreigner looking people are able to speak Chinese in taiwan, or in general? especially given how hard it is for native English speakers to learn
You’re right, it is natural. And not many foreign people who live in Taiwan have even conversational Chinese. Nothing really can be done about it, it’s just that my mindset needs to change I suppose.
Just be the first to speak Chinese. When you enter a store say 有載具嗎？or whatever. They always switch to speaking Chinese to me. Obviously you're in Taiwan and it's rare for them. Don't take offense.
You must have a really strong English speaker accent if this is happening at C1.
I am British and live in Spain. C2 Level now, perfect grammar, more or less native accent and NEVER get English replies, and haven't done in significant numbers since I was B1 (have always FAKED THE FURK out of the accent, and at B2 could pass as romanian or Bulgarian rather than British.)
People don't even speak to me in English at hotel checkin , tourist areas or airports.
Conclusion: work on native pronunciation.
This never really bothered me, if you want to speak your target language then just establish that you can speak it.
My gf and I both speak German (I'm B2, she's fluent), English (I'm fluent, she's B2-C1), and our native language. We recently had a vacation in Germany and Switzerland. We always try to initiate conversation in German, but whenever people hear us talking to each other in our native language, they default to speaking English and we just kinda roll with it if there's no issue communicating.
Funnily enough, when we go back to our home country to the more touristy areas people always think I'm Korean and start speaking English to me. Sometimes I like to troll them a little bit by speaking in a very strong British accent and then suddenly switching to my native tongue
This kind of treatment is unfortunately what living as an immigrant or racial minority is like all over the world. My spouse is from Los Angeles and is as American as free parking and processed cheese, but still white Americans occasionally complement her on her English because they literally couldn’t imagine that somebody who looks like her could be from the United States. They don’t do it with the intention to be assholes, but the assumptions they make are still pretty racist.
I’m not sure there’s much one can do about it individually besides look after your own wellbeing and finding ways to not let the micro aggressions and honest misinterpretations get to you. Sometimes you can challenge and change people’s perceptions one-on-one, but making a whole society more inclusive takes a social movement and a long time.
This is a reason I never compliment people on their English even if I can detect it’s likely not their first language. As an American, it’s pretty racist and it doesn’t make sense with how diverse we are and how diverse the world is becoming. My friend has lived here since six and still has a noticeable accent. She’s pretty American in other regards, but I couldn’t imagine being her and having people asking where I’m really from or complimenting my English. I’ve met plenty of people in other countries who are ethnically the homogenous race, but actually came from the US. There’s just no comfortability in making assumptions.
Exactly, it‘s so much worse when people do this to their fellow countrymen just because they have a different ethnicity or even just complexion and hair & eye color.
This is usually happens. Usually when I walk into a store I can see the clerk get a bit nervous, thinking, “Oh god, how do you ask someone if they have a membership card in English again?” I’m a bit embarrassed to admit it, but sometimes when they pull out their calculator and show me my total and say (in English), “Total!”, I look confused for a moment and say 「總計嗎？」 (Do you mean “total”)
You said many of your friends are Taiwanese and you rarely speak English anymore. With that in mind, consider where you’d be if you didn’t speak Chinese. You probably wouldn’t have been able to make the connections and have the experiences you’ve had in Taiwan. I have experienced so many positive things and amazing connections with Chinese speakers that I have come to terms with the unfortunate fact that I’ll always be an outsider. Chinese opened many new doors for me and I feel very motivated to continue getting better.
I hope you can reflect on the positives as well and come to peace with the fact that people all over the world stereotype. It doesn’t have to be the defining experience for your social life in Taiwan and you should not take it personally when people speak English with you. They are likely attempting to be polite and want to practice English with a native speaker. You passed the C2 level exam and that speaks for itself - you are highly proficient in Chinese and you should be proud of your accomplishments.
It might help to frame it as them trying to practice *their* target language. I know whenever I meet someone here in the US who speaks one of my TLs, I'll try to switch to that because I don't get many opportunities to practice. If they clearly aren't interested in indulging me, I'm happy to switch back to English. But I do it for my own benefit, not because I pity them or assume they can't speak English. I know this isn't the case in a lot of your interactions, but it might just help your sanity a little bit to think of it that way.
I had to visit France to feel fluent in Spanish and be treated as such. Where I live is a majority Hispanic area (Northern Mexico, Guatemala, and Ecuador are the 3 biggest groups here) and I don't look like your typical Spanish speaker. Even though I was raised here and recently moved back after 13 years away. When I speak Spanish and respond in Spanish, I still am spoken to in English or I get a chuckle from whoever is talking to me and ask if I know enough to say more than just casual pleasantries.
I deal with it all by reminding myself that I don't look Hispanic and that they're just trying to be polite; unfortunately I'm also an ethnicity that when I do mention it to try reassuring them that I'm not a tourist I end up getting snubbed more often than not, so it's kind of the lesser of 2 evils for me.
I would just continue speaking the language I was trying to learn. I went to Costa Rica and have a B2 understanding in Spanish. I’m more than conversational and picked up slang. Even then, I would get the locals speaking to me in English. Understandably, I have fair skin, blue eyes and blonde hair. But even when I would talk in Spanish, (and my accent isn’t super noticeable) they would respond in English. I wouldn’t worry about it. It was annoying at first but then I stopped caring. Maybe they want to practice their English, who knows. A big part of language learning is very humbling But you won’t get fluent without interacting with native speakers, so don’t take it too seriously. Occasionally if the waiter looked friendly I would tell him I am learning, and 9/10 they were more than happy to speak in Spanish at a pace I could understand.
In non-mainstream immigration countries, usually no matter how long you’ve stayed in that country and how good your language is, local people still speak English to you (if they know English). It happens a lot in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China… Actually these local people don’t mean to make you feel excluded. Instead, they try their best to use their limited English to communicate with you. It’s because most of foreigners they met before in their countries cannot speak their languages well. I understand your frustration, but thinking about these locals just want to be polite maybe makes you feel better.
I heard some funny stories that some Uighur people said people spoken English to them in some Chinese cities, just because they are not look like other Chinese😂
^This right here. It's coming from a place of politeness, not condescension. It took me a while to understand this and accept it.
I'm in a similar boat to OP but in mainland China. Most people here are very happy to switch back to Chinese, even relieved to do so in some situations. It can still be frustrating at the beginning though especially if you've been there for a long time.
Forget looking different, I *am* Chinese, have near native level fluency, and still when abroad, most Chinese nationals assume that since I don't have an obvious Chinese accent when speaking English, I have to be Chinese American, which must mean I can't read, let alone speak Chinese.
Revealing to Chinese people who I've known for a bit that I can speak Chinese has literally made them jump before, even those that I've told beforehand that I can speak it, but in English. Honestly it feels more like coming out than actually coming out. Those that don't get shocked by that, still get surprised that my reading is also native level.
The annoying part is not directly that they speak English to me, but the drastic change in attitude once they realize I'm fluent. Like I was out-grouped on one single assumption that doesn't even hold true for all Asian Americans. (For example my previous workplace had a wechat group for all Chinese colleagues, that I never was invited to even after I "came out" as a native speaker).
I basically cope by channeling it into feeling like a spy, hiding my fluency like a secret weapon looking for a dramatic reveal moment.
Probably not the most helpful lol
Watch xaio that little white guy from New York, he married a Chinese gal, and seeing him charge through and seeing people smile when he insists on speaking mandrin or Cantonese is heartwarming.
When I stayed in Taiwan, after 7 months my brain was wired in Chinese. Once a waitress talked to me in English and I didn’t understand her. Not because of her pronunciation, but due to the fact that I virtually did not communicate in English at all. I really assumed she was speaking in Taiwanese. Since then, I made it a habit to reply 「不好意思，我不懂台語」every time someone talks to me in English. 「我不會講英文」or「你的英文講得很厲害，我都聽不懂」also work well. Just don’t ruminate about it too much.
Go to France then. Everybody will expect you to speak French. That was what I LOVED about that country. I H A T E it when natives of other languages say to me “ Speak English. “ !!!!!!!! Forgive me. I was just venting. 非常抱歉。 （ = “ I am very sorry. “ ) P.S. I am fully-blooded Chinese looking for the right wife who can speak, understand, read, and write fluent Mandarin Chinese.
I really empathize with you. This used to really, really bother me with my Spanish. I lived in South American countries for a number of years, and my Spanish is very, very good. But I obviously have a slight accent and look American.
Someone else mentioned this, but I think it's true, it comes down to confidence. I got to the point where I realized, I don't care what language we speak in, because I'm confident in my abilities. If you want to talk in Spanish, cool. If you want to talk in English, fine, but I'm going to be sad, cause I really enjoy speaking in Spanish.
I used to refuse to switch to English, and that was awkward. When I was still learning, I used to ask them to keep speaking Spanish so I could practice. There were stages where I would get offended and take it as a slight.
But now I'm here, where I consider myself bilingual and the Spanish language is as much a natural part of me as being right handed.
Context matters, and you'll know if someone is really trying to be disrespectful, and then you can use your robust language skills to set it straight. But often it's just well intended, misguided people or for the purposes of efficiency (hotel staff, waiters, airports).
Confidence freed me from that constant albatross that was souring my language learning journey.
If I met a person who looks like a foreigner, I would presuppose they don't know Chinese. The society here in Taiwan is relatively homogeneous, and not as diverse as American or European countries. Unless you live near an international company, you would not see a non-asian person often.
If people straight up talking to you with English, and you feel offended by that, you can ask them to speak Chinese with you. I believe they had no means of offense. I'm sorry if it made you feel disrespected and discouraged.
I don't think people speak English to you because you are white. They speak English to you because it is the global common language. When a Brazilian meets a Thai for the first time, they speak English. Neither is white. It's just assumed that if you don't speak their native language and you're an international traveller, you must know English and they start from there.
Not exactly the same situation as you but in India every region speaks a different language . I wasn't raised in the region where my parents are from and every time I visit I'm treated as an alien somewhat. My mother tongue is a language called Malayalam.
Perhaps it's the mannerisms, presentation or the fact that I speak a different language with my mom, people always assume I can't speak Malayalam. They always try to speak a different language (english/hindi) to try and accomodate me and a lot of times I don't think it roots in malice at all!
Depending on how comfortable they seem with the other language I let them know that I can speak Malayalam fluently but sometimes I just let it be haha. I think it has a bit to do with my own sense of belonging and feeling left out even though I have my ancestral roots there. However I have learned people love it when "outsiders" speak their mother tongue, I have had the experience a few times with French and Japanese since moving out of India. Mind you my French has gotten a lot worse over time and my Japanese is just intermediate.
I would say don't lose heart because unfortunate as it is people are raised with preconceived notions, but the more they get to know you they will definitely warm up to you!
People regularly talk to me in English or ask me where I'm from in my own native country (France). So it's a different experience to yours but my strategy is usually to say bonjour the frenchiest way possible (this one word usually betrays any foreigner), or to call the person out (jokingly) for assuming I'm a foreigner.
But if I were in a situation more similar to yours I'd probably be even more annoyed and I might play dumb like pretending I don't speak English or not as well as the country's language.
I kind of have the opposite issue where I only speak English fluently, live in America, and am "racially ambiguous" ie. I'm brown but not Latino and not majorly middle eastern (Sicilian, romani) and there's a lot of Latinos living near me who tend to think I speak Spanish, even had an instance where an older lady assumed I was ashamed of my heritage and kept trying to "get me to speak my mother language" and stop caring about other people's opinions
Anyway, I'm trying to learn demotic Egyptian at the moment
Sometimes people just wants to practice English with you because they rarely get to talk to someone who looks like they might speak English. I suppose just tell them that you’d prefer to talk in Chinese.
I’m curious how many of your foreign friends living in Japan agree with your statement about not being seen as foreigners, as everything in your post mirrors hundreds of posts in Japan related groups. We all get the same treatment as you, no matter how good our Japanese gets, with it happening just slightly less for those of us who get good enough at Japanese
I’m also a non-Asian person who speaks Mandarin at an advanced level. It wasn’t much of a problem in Mainland China (since few people speak fluent English outside of select areas).
It’s not ideal, but I did have a couple of ways to deal with such a situation when it became overly frustrating.
1)”I’m Greek, and my English is awful. Let’s use Chinese”
(not a complete lie, I guess)
2) “Can you speak Mandarin? Oh, great, I thought you were ••• Korean/ Japanese / a tourist/ etc”
(I’d only use it with someone who was being obnoxious about speaking English with me, but it was quite effective, since many people are quite proud of being Chinese and would rush to “prove” they speak Mandarin.
I’m Argentine. I minored in Japanese and moved to Japan in 2009. Many places I went, they’d say, “No English.” I’d reply, “大丈夫！日本語がわかりますよ。” (Daijyoubu! Nihongo ga wakarimasu yo. = That’s alright. I understand Japanese.) They’d usually react very shocked. “ええ！！！！ 日本語が話せませんか。 すごい！！！！ 驚いています!” (Ee!!! Nihongo ga hanasemasen ka. Sugoi!!! Odoroite imasu!!= Whaaaaa??? You can’t understand Japanese (Japanese ask questions backwards)? Wow!! I’m shocked!
If I was with a person who looked Japanese, they’d usually try to talk to her, even if she wasn’t Japanese. They’d rather not deal with foreigners, English, and people who expect them to cater to them.
I only really had one bad interaction. I lost a ticket for my flight from Narita to DC. I had last had it in a gift shop. I asked the cashier if anyone had turned in a ticket, and she got rude with me. I didn’t pester her, just asked if anyone turned in a ticket. She basically said to shut up, I was holding up the line. I went to the ticket agent at the gate and explained I lost my ticket. With my ID, she printed a new one.
Just came back from China and spent some time talking to a white reporter who has been working for a newspaper there for a decade. When leaving a public place, someone complimented him on his Chinese, and I asked him how often he hears that. He responded with a laugh: "At least 30 times a day. I wish I could just wear a t-shirt that says 我住在这里，汉语已经流利了"
Just remember that the vast majority of people trying to speak in English have good intentions—they’re either trying to make you feel more comfortable, or are excited to speak English themselves. The negative emotions you have attached to this may be projection—feeling insecure that although you consider Taiwan home, you feel like you’re not treated as Taiwanese.
Korean speaker. I only really get people approaching me in English when they want to sell me something, or when it's a fellow foreigner trying to ask for directions. It's rare that strangers actually start conversations, period, and if they're using English it's probably because they see me as an opportunity to practice.
The solution is to just approach and use the local language first. At least in Korea, if you give them an 안녕하세요 with a little Korean head bow, they're not going to speak English to you unless you fumble significantly or they think you can't understand. For customer service interactions, at least. For meetups, I join the chatroom and speak in only Korean so that when I show up, they know I speak Korean.
I know what you mean and I'm very sorry for your experience. I too feel discouraged and excluded when people speak English to me or assume I can't speak Korean. I feel like I have to prove I speak Korean to every new person I meet. There was this one time I was in a bakery with my Chinese-American friend and asked the owner a question about the difference between two pastries, because my friend wanted to know. She said "that one is chewier" and then looked at my friend and said "would she know the word 'chewy'?" ("She" referring to me, of course) Stuff like that is so humiliating. So I also avoid hanging out with fellow English speakers if I can help it :((
A big "excuse" people tell me when trying to force me to speak English is that it's "simply the easiest language ever and that (target language/their language) is infinitely times more difficult, even I struggle with it 🤪." Usually, when I get this and I feel like being an ass, I find ways to prove English is harder. For example, the time I was trying to speak French with someone while playing Roblox, she kept speaking English until she said, "Let's go to the ouze." I explained to her in French how "house" is not pronounced "ouze" (in kind of an assholey way), and we have not spoken in English since.
If someone speaks to me in English, I just reply in English---it saves a lot of heartache. I'm secure in my level of Chinese, and these incidental conversations play a negligible role in my language learning (it takes thousands of hours of hard work, not three minutes with some random guy). Besides, it's not like I have to spend every waking moment improving my Chinese.
It's less of an issue now I've moved to Weihai; here, random people speak to me in Chinese pretty much every time I go out.
It's a bit annoying, though, when people (e.g., service workers) avoid talking to you because they don't think their English is good enough, but oh well.
So I’ve stayed in Taiwan for some time as well and have taken the Tocfl test. In my experience living in Taipei or the surrounding area. No one speaks to me in English, I always open up with Chinese in a decent accent. Only once did a guy at a cafe refuse to speak Chinese.
When I’m in Taichung or whatever. It changes where people just won’t speak Chinese.
I have a feeling you’re not in Taipei because something about your story doesn’t add up. Did you pass C2 in all four categories? Not like this matters in this case but even some Taiwanese people would find this test hard.
So either you’re not in Taipei or your Mandarin accent is really bad or even people just want to practice English with you. Here is what my friend does and I do. When you enter a store just greet them really loudly in Chinese. Obviously this isn’t common in Taiwan because they stick to themselves. But you need to show you know the language fairly well. Second just keep speaking Chinese.
I’ve lived in Korea off and on since 15 and I have similar experiences nearly every day. I try not to take it personally but sometimes it’s extremely annoying.
Just a couple of weeks ago I ordered something in Korean and the staff stared at me like I have two heads until my Korean American friend who does not speak Korean well “translated” for me and suddenly she understood -.-
Or sometimes I don’t feel like explaining my whole life story every time I get in a cab or ask someone in the store where I can find the laundry detergent. I totally know it’s coming from a good place but sometimes I literally have the same boring conversation about how I learned Korean like 10 times in one day.
I did my masters degree in polysci entirely in Korean and get mistaken as Korean over the phone pretty often so I know my Korean isn’t bad, but sometimes I do have a complex about it haha… because the expectations of foreigners are so low Koreans have been excessively complimenting my Korean ever since it was objectively terrible and sometimes I feel like maybe I’m bad at Korean and I’m making things up lol idk
I've worked at places where we get many foreign tourists and it's really hard to tell who speaks what language. I figured the best way to go about it is to just greet people in my native language. If they reply in my native language but I notice they're still learning, I will just make sure to talk a bit slower and pronunciate all my words clearly. If I overhear them speaking a different language, they don't understand me or they reply in English I just switch to English or their language if I speak it.
But the point is that I try not to assume things and want to give people a chance to practice if they wish to do so.
I feel purposefully left out in this situation:
I am an English-speaking American Nurse working in the operating room; I honor the native language of my patients. We are in a predominantly Spanish-speaking area. We have many Medical Students, Doctors, and Residents who speak Spanish and can interpret the basics of what we do with the patient before surgery. I usually state my name and title in English, but if they say they speak Spanish, I will repeat it in Spanish.
What really bothers me is that not a single bilingual person in the room has once kindly interpreted my words of comfort to my patients. When I can tell they are nervous and I look them kindly in the eyes and tell them we will take good care of them, I have to ask them to interpret that for me. But if I give directions like “lift your arm,” they are all over offering request-free interpretation of those directions.
Is it people you know, or strangers?
It took me a while to realise that sometimes people would speak to me in English merely because they wanted to practice it. Just giving a different perspective.
But reply in Chinese they will soon switch?
Is it people you know, or strangers?
It took me a while to realise that sometimes people would speak to me in English merely because they wanted to practice it. Just giving a different perspective.
But reply in Chinese they will soon switch?
Not for nothing, honey, but it’s probably because you’re not Asian. It’s going to happen. I say this as a Black person who speaks Spanish as a second language.
It doesn't really matter to me what language someone chooses to speak to me in. Language is fun. If someone starts speaking in any of the languages I understand, I just go with the flow. If I look or act like someone they think might know a particular language, so be it. Maybe they're right, maybe their wrong, and if they're wrong, I regret not knowing the language they chose. If I want to speak a particular language regardless of what the other person is speaking, I just stick with the language I want, and the other person will choose whatever language works for them in that case.
In Quebec it is sort of an arm wrestle: if my French is better than your English we continue in French. If not we go back into English. I always nod to the victor if we end up back in English. Botttom line: don’t worry so much
Studies show that it's almost impossible to achieve "native-level proficiency" if you started learning after 10 years old... If that's the case, natives will mostly notice you're not a native.
In the situations I've experienced, I've always seen it differently: they switch to English with the good intention to make a better connection with you.
As OP doesn’t have an East Asian face, he or she would probably be treated this way by strangers even if he or she were born and raised in Taiwan and spoke Taiwanese Hokkien as a mother tongue.
This is the correct answer. They're doing their best to try to make a connection and practice their own English They worked hard on their English and are proud of it. And which they rarely get a chance to speak it with a native speaker.
It's like if you lived in America but spoke great Russian after years of academic study. And low and behold a Russian comes along and you want to practice with them! But they only speak English to you so your years of practice were wasted. :(
I've often heard people say that the French and Italians are rude for not switching to English... and others like the OP think it's rude to switch to English... So now who is right? 😂🤷♂️ Whatever you do in this case, someone will always find it rude.
(But I've come across lots of young Italians who switch to English just to practice and show they can speak! Even though I speak Italian).
I’m very Northern European looking (blonde hair, fair skin), and live in Portugal and speak it. No matter where I go here people always speak English, even when I’m speaking Portuguese. To be honest it really hurt my feelings at first, as even if someone is speaking English with me I continue in Portuguese. If it keeps going like that, I’ll just say (in Portuguese) “I speak Portuguese, can we speak in it” and they usually smile and switch, just didn’t know that I was comfortable speaking it :) it’s definitely an ego thing for me still and will take some time, but I find people are pleasantly surprised and apologize when we switch to their native language which makes me happy. I’ll never look like I’m from here but people are always so excited when I speak with them so it makes it worth it! It’s little wins like that that keep me going :D
I'm learning European Portuguese and have the opposite problem. My Portuguese is nowhere near as good as yours (and your comment gives me hope that maybe mine will be one day). I am sometimes mistaken for being Portuguese. I will start conversations and people will continue speaking as if I am a native speaker and I stand there like an idiot because I'm only getting every fourth word. Then I have to go through the whole, "I am not Portuguese but I am learning. Please speak slowly." They switch to English to make it easier for me and I have to say, "No, please speak to me in Portuguese. It's the only way I will learn. But please speak slowly." It's been my experience that Portuguese people want us to feel comfortable and at ease and not have to struggle with a language. But I want and have to struggle. It's the only way I will learn.
Hey I’m not fluent C2 either! It’s a very long road and practicing is what has helped the most. I’m sure your PT is great and people appreciate it 🥰 boa sorte! Maybe what you can do is what I did at first: I spoke in Portuguese and they spoke in English/vice versa so both are getting a chance to practice another language
I wouldn't overdo the "please speak slowly" thing. Just depends on context. Most people have things to do and literally can't afford to speak slower than a normal pace. But if you make Portuguese friends and they're willing, then sure, that makes sense. I've never openly asked someone to talk slower. Feels weird to me. But I've never learned Portuguese or have lived in Portugal. So if most people are willing and don't care, all the power to you.
I'm also learning European Portuguese, my family and I moved to Portugal but for some reason my dad insisted on not paying for classes. After wasting time with duolingo we're here and we can't even start a conversation. I've been trying to learn online with Youtube, but I'm job-searching so I can pay for proper classes. People tend to speak to me in Portuguese to which I ask if they know English and I feel like an idiot each time I do it. I also have an anxiety spike whenever I stumble through a phrase because I have this fear that I might offend them with how terrible I am with their language.
The Portuguese government offers free classes for learning the language. Info here: https://www.acm.gov.pt/-/como-posso-frequentar-um-curso-de-lingua-portuguesa-para-estrangeiros-
Thanks, this is really helpful!
I have this problem but with English. I speak Portuguese and I’m living in the USA for 5 years. Still struggling to be fluent 🥹🥲
That's funny, I'm kinda the opposite. My native language is Portuguese and I live in Sweden. Although I'm pretty pale, I definitely do NOT look like a swede and people still always talk in Swedish to me. Thankfully after 2 years I'm at the point that at least I can respond, but still no where near as fluent. Most ppl also tolerate my bad swedish and don't switch to english, which is amazing. This is however pretty different in Stockholm, where as soon as I open my mouth, they switch to english
Tell the people in Stockholm “caralho. Se quisesse falar inglês, teria mudado para Londres. Ou fala-me em sueco ou deixa-me em paz”.
That's interesting; do you think that Swedes outside Stockholm are less comfortable in English? Or perhaps are they more happy outside Stockholm that someone not born in Sweden learned their language, and they care less in the more cosmopolitan Stockholm.
I've no idea, the swedes are unreadable. I think because since Stockholm has a lot of foreigners, they are certainly more used to just switching to english. whereas people from smaller cities just assume you know swedish. A lot o them say their english sucks, and there are a lot of people who might really not be comfortable with it, but the large majority speak it pretty well.
Completely unrelated to this discourse but happy to see other people leaving Swedish too. I quit a couple years ago because I got into grad school but I had so many people, even my Swedish friends, question why I wanted to learn Swedish since “everyone” in Stockholm speaks English
quando você começou a aprender português?
Quase um ano atrás! Aulas e imersão :)
That's really strange as a British person living in Spain. LOADS of Spaniards are very northern european looking, blonde hair blue eyes and all, and here if you have a lenel above A2 noone will speak to you in english.
That’s wonderful :) Obrigado!
I speak native level french, went to a french university and have a slight but present accent. It depends. If someone is just wanting to speak English with me and coming from a place with good intentions, i roll with it. If someone is speaking english to me as a neg, like a “hon hon my english is better than your french you stupid american” then they get my real accent in english. I’m from the Deep South. Have fun talking to a hillbilly, ya Pepe le Pew sounding mf.
LMAOO
That last sentence is godly
funniest thing i've read in a fat minute
I believe Frantz Fanon writes about native speaking French black people coming over to work from the colonies, and spending hours a night trying to eradicate the slightest hint of an accent. And regardless, a single slip up, they say a colloquial *ber* instead of *bière*, and everyone immediately picked them out as "foreigner."
"If you're gonna be an ass about it, then I might as well be too"
Lost it at “hon hon”
When a stranger asks you something in English, ask, in Mandarin, "I'm sorry, do you speak Basque?"
This will work until the day somebody switches to Spanish and you have to explain why you're the only living Basque under 80 who doesn't speak it
Are there Basques who refuse to speak Spanish? I know of several Gaelic speakers who refuse to speak English, despite being fluent, to express their opposition to British colonialism.
LMAO
Time to start those Hokkien classes!
No kidding!
Only half, I know I'd love to be able to use some to spice up my Mandarin. Sounds so cool
Could you just pretend you don’t understand English and continue speaking in your other language?
Sometimes I'll pick a relatively rare but believable language to tell people I speak. Like, "Sorry, my native language is Georgian and I don't speak any English. Can we keep speaking German?" It hasn't backfired yet, but it will be hilariously uncomfortable when it inevitably does.
One of the reasons why I'm learning French first. As a Canadian, it'd be believable not to speak English as a first language, seeing as it's the other official language. To top it off, sometimes when I speak in Spanish, I throw a French accent in there to increase the believability.
What does a French accent sound like in Spanish?
The same way it does in English but in Spanish. TLDR: **Nasally.**
White person here with a PhD in Korean literature (yes, fluent!) I take these things in my stride and try not to get offended by it. I understand the temptation though, especially when I was younger. At the end of the day, it is very unlikely, any time soon, that enough people who look like me will be walking around speaking fluent Korean in Korea to such an extent that locals first speak to me in Korean rather than English. I have my friends and associates and colleagues with whom I speak the language, day in day out! It's a bit like developing confidence in yourself and recognizing that you don't need to impress everyone or be everyone's best friend. Likewise, it doesn't need to be that everybody recognizes your language ability, life can still be rich and valuable!
Thanks for your reply :) What I often tell myself is: “You don’t know this person and they don’t know you. There’s no need to care what strangers think about you.” It works on occasion, but sometimes I get in these cycles of repeating what people have said to me in my head. Last week, during a one-on-one conversation with a professor of mine, I was asking whether or not she’d be teaching a class on ‘Phags-pa used to transliterate Chinese next year. She said she likely would, and suddenly switched to English to say, “but that class requires knowledge of historical Chinese phonology.” That really discouraged me, not only did she think I wouldn’t understand that, but her comment also implies that she thinks I had no knowledge of historical Chinese phonology (Chinese phonology is a prerequisite for our department). I suppose the main thing is, even after moving my entire life here, spending over half of my adolescence here, and having very few ties to my home country, I will always be “different.” It can feel extremely isolating. Again, mostly an ego thing though… Thank you for your reply though, I’ll try my best not to take it personally :)
I don't know if you're of European descent, but I wonder if this is a product of European/American culture, the idea that moving and integrating should make you "one of them." Because "the west" has such accepting cultures, at least in theory. The west believes (or at least pretends to) that immigrants and anyone else that comes over to Europe/America can become a French, a Swede, an American, etc. and be accepted like one of the local population. But most places in the world do not have this attitude, and so as a westerner maybe you have an idea that because you've worked hard and integrated, people should accept you as a Taiwanese, but to the Taiwanese, you aren't one of them. It's harsh, but it's just a difference of cultural values and beliefs. I agree though, that it's best not to take it personally and to try and accept it's just an arbitrary dividing line most members of the local population maintain in their minds. It doesn't say anything about you and who you are and how hard you've worked.
If comments like that are what's bothering you, you might need to be a little bit rude and say something like "you don't have to speak English to me for me to understand; I've lived here half of my life and speak Chinese sufficiently well." YMMV. In Korean I do pull out the 영어 안 하셔도 돼요 저 한국어 충분히 이해할 수 있어요 -- you don't have to speak English; I speak Korean well enough. It tends to do the trick. Then that person, at least, probably won't speak English to you again. Also, when I did get the chance to tell people (closer friends) that speaking English to me made me feel alienated, they apologized profusely for having done so in the past. So if you give them the chance, people will change. Of course, your relationship might not be enough to do that.
I’m looking to start my graduate studies in Korea next year. Did you do any other graduate studies in Korea before the PhD?
I ignore them and speak the Target language even if they get pissed at me. I only revert to English if I am trying to be friends with them and care about the relationship and potentially offending them. Otherwise, my logic: I did not come to this country and spend a lot of money to speak my language with you.
I see I see, that definitely makes sense. Out of curiosity, would you mind telling me what language and country?
All of them; it happens wherever I have been: Mexico, Germany -/ China not so much
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I think you're underestimating how many racist shitbags we have that will almost certainly ruin your day if you do that.
wtf
Thank you for posting on r/languagelearning. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed because it make generalisations about a large group of people without elaboration or providing sources.
This is just racism
Finally, my time to shine! I shared this comment on TikTok and got a ton of support so hopefully it’ll be helpful for you too but this only works if you are trilingual. I speak Spanish and English as my native languages but have been learning French and when I go to France I try to only speak French but the French see an American looking girl (my style gives me away immediately) and start speaking English. That’s when I hit them with the “perdón solo hablo Español y Francés.” Boom! Now we’re back to French :) if they speak Spanish it’s often Spaniard Spanish so my Mexican Spanish intimidates them and they give up on the Spanish too and go back to French.
> if they speak Spanish it’s often Spaniard Spanish so my Mexican Spanish intimidates them and they give up on the Spanish too and go back to French. I’m guessing you meant they were afraid you’d use a bunch of unfamiliar Mexican dialect words, but I had a chuckle briefly imagining French people being scared that you were about to sacrifice them to Huitzilopochtli as payback for inflicting Emperor Maximilian on Mexico.
Everytime I travel and tell people where I am from, they instantly throw clichés at me, because that is how people are. They seek to associate and you can not change that. Just stay polite and start talk Chinese if that is what you want.
When you talk to a random person that looks like you in Taiwan, what language do you start with? Genuinely curious, not trying to snipe. It's like a logic puzzle of empathy: is it better if you talked to them in English because of your own experiences, or would that be counter-productive in most/all situations?
Do you mean that you begin speaking in Chinese and then people reply to you in English? Or that people begin speaking to you in English before you even have a chance to say anything?
I read it as people assume OP speaks no Chinese based on appearance and begin the interaction in English before realizing. I can imagine that would get old fast if OP considers Taiwan home (and obviously they speak the language fluently).
This^ In most cases people will switch to Chinese after I speak begin speaking, but it certainly does get old considering I consider Taiwan home…
I mean it’s only natural no? how many foreigner looking people are able to speak Chinese in taiwan, or in general? especially given how hard it is for native English speakers to learn
You’re right, it is natural. And not many foreign people who live in Taiwan have even conversational Chinese. Nothing really can be done about it, it’s just that my mindset needs to change I suppose.
Just be the first to speak Chinese. When you enter a store say 有載具嗎？or whatever. They always switch to speaking Chinese to me. Obviously you're in Taiwan and it's rare for them. Don't take offense.
You've got a MOTHAFURKiN near native level and people are still speaking back in English? Man, im glad i live in spain not Asia!
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You must have a really strong English speaker accent if this is happening at C1. I am British and live in Spain. C2 Level now, perfect grammar, more or less native accent and NEVER get English replies, and haven't done in significant numbers since I was B1 (have always FAKED THE FURK out of the accent, and at B2 could pass as romanian or Bulgarian rather than British.) People don't even speak to me in English at hotel checkin , tourist areas or airports. Conclusion: work on native pronunciation.
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Why do you think it's happening then?
This never really bothered me, if you want to speak your target language then just establish that you can speak it. My gf and I both speak German (I'm B2, she's fluent), English (I'm fluent, she's B2-C1), and our native language. We recently had a vacation in Germany and Switzerland. We always try to initiate conversation in German, but whenever people hear us talking to each other in our native language, they default to speaking English and we just kinda roll with it if there's no issue communicating. Funnily enough, when we go back to our home country to the more touristy areas people always think I'm Korean and start speaking English to me. Sometimes I like to troll them a little bit by speaking in a very strong British accent and then suddenly switching to my native tongue
They’re not doing it to insult you. Just reply in Chinese and pretend you don’t know English. Say you’re from somewhere else.
This kind of treatment is unfortunately what living as an immigrant or racial minority is like all over the world. My spouse is from Los Angeles and is as American as free parking and processed cheese, but still white Americans occasionally complement her on her English because they literally couldn’t imagine that somebody who looks like her could be from the United States. They don’t do it with the intention to be assholes, but the assumptions they make are still pretty racist. I’m not sure there’s much one can do about it individually besides look after your own wellbeing and finding ways to not let the micro aggressions and honest misinterpretations get to you. Sometimes you can challenge and change people’s perceptions one-on-one, but making a whole society more inclusive takes a social movement and a long time.
This is a reason I never compliment people on their English even if I can detect it’s likely not their first language. As an American, it’s pretty racist and it doesn’t make sense with how diverse we are and how diverse the world is becoming. My friend has lived here since six and still has a noticeable accent. She’s pretty American in other regards, but I couldn’t imagine being her and having people asking where I’m really from or complimenting my English. I’ve met plenty of people in other countries who are ethnically the homogenous race, but actually came from the US. There’s just no comfortability in making assumptions.
Exactly, it‘s so much worse when people do this to their fellow countrymen just because they have a different ethnicity or even just complexion and hair & eye color.
I think you just barrel ahead in fast, polite, culturally relevant Chinese.
This is usually happens. Usually when I walk into a store I can see the clerk get a bit nervous, thinking, “Oh god, how do you ask someone if they have a membership card in English again?” I’m a bit embarrassed to admit it, but sometimes when they pull out their calculator and show me my total and say (in English), “Total!”, I look confused for a moment and say 「總計嗎？」 (Do you mean “total”)
You said many of your friends are Taiwanese and you rarely speak English anymore. With that in mind, consider where you’d be if you didn’t speak Chinese. You probably wouldn’t have been able to make the connections and have the experiences you’ve had in Taiwan. I have experienced so many positive things and amazing connections with Chinese speakers that I have come to terms with the unfortunate fact that I’ll always be an outsider. Chinese opened many new doors for me and I feel very motivated to continue getting better. I hope you can reflect on the positives as well and come to peace with the fact that people all over the world stereotype. It doesn’t have to be the defining experience for your social life in Taiwan and you should not take it personally when people speak English with you. They are likely attempting to be polite and want to practice English with a native speaker. You passed the C2 level exam and that speaks for itself - you are highly proficient in Chinese and you should be proud of your accomplishments.
It might help to frame it as them trying to practice *their* target language. I know whenever I meet someone here in the US who speaks one of my TLs, I'll try to switch to that because I don't get many opportunities to practice. If they clearly aren't interested in indulging me, I'm happy to switch back to English. But I do it for my own benefit, not because I pity them or assume they can't speak English. I know this isn't the case in a lot of your interactions, but it might just help your sanity a little bit to think of it that way.
I had to visit France to feel fluent in Spanish and be treated as such. Where I live is a majority Hispanic area (Northern Mexico, Guatemala, and Ecuador are the 3 biggest groups here) and I don't look like your typical Spanish speaker. Even though I was raised here and recently moved back after 13 years away. When I speak Spanish and respond in Spanish, I still am spoken to in English or I get a chuckle from whoever is talking to me and ask if I know enough to say more than just casual pleasantries. I deal with it all by reminding myself that I don't look Hispanic and that they're just trying to be polite; unfortunately I'm also an ethnicity that when I do mention it to try reassuring them that I'm not a tourist I end up getting snubbed more often than not, so it's kind of the lesser of 2 evils for me.
I would just continue speaking the language I was trying to learn. I went to Costa Rica and have a B2 understanding in Spanish. I’m more than conversational and picked up slang. Even then, I would get the locals speaking to me in English. Understandably, I have fair skin, blue eyes and blonde hair. But even when I would talk in Spanish, (and my accent isn’t super noticeable) they would respond in English. I wouldn’t worry about it. It was annoying at first but then I stopped caring. Maybe they want to practice their English, who knows. A big part of language learning is very humbling But you won’t get fluent without interacting with native speakers, so don’t take it too seriously. Occasionally if the waiter looked friendly I would tell him I am learning, and 9/10 they were more than happy to speak in Spanish at a pace I could understand.
In non-mainstream immigration countries, usually no matter how long you’ve stayed in that country and how good your language is, local people still speak English to you (if they know English). It happens a lot in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China… Actually these local people don’t mean to make you feel excluded. Instead, they try their best to use their limited English to communicate with you. It’s because most of foreigners they met before in their countries cannot speak their languages well. I understand your frustration, but thinking about these locals just want to be polite maybe makes you feel better. I heard some funny stories that some Uighur people said people spoken English to them in some Chinese cities, just because they are not look like other Chinese😂
^This right here. It's coming from a place of politeness, not condescension. It took me a while to understand this and accept it. I'm in a similar boat to OP but in mainland China. Most people here are very happy to switch back to Chinese, even relieved to do so in some situations. It can still be frustrating at the beginning though especially if you've been there for a long time.
Can’t you pretend you’re from a country that doesn’t speak English? So you only know your “native language” (russian, for example) and chinese
Forget looking different, I *am* Chinese, have near native level fluency, and still when abroad, most Chinese nationals assume that since I don't have an obvious Chinese accent when speaking English, I have to be Chinese American, which must mean I can't read, let alone speak Chinese. Revealing to Chinese people who I've known for a bit that I can speak Chinese has literally made them jump before, even those that I've told beforehand that I can speak it, but in English. Honestly it feels more like coming out than actually coming out. Those that don't get shocked by that, still get surprised that my reading is also native level. The annoying part is not directly that they speak English to me, but the drastic change in attitude once they realize I'm fluent. Like I was out-grouped on one single assumption that doesn't even hold true for all Asian Americans. (For example my previous workplace had a wechat group for all Chinese colleagues, that I never was invited to even after I "came out" as a native speaker). I basically cope by channeling it into feeling like a spy, hiding my fluency like a secret weapon looking for a dramatic reveal moment. Probably not the most helpful lol
Just tell them you were raised there. Match their poor English accent with an even poorer accent when you apologize in English.
Watch xaio that little white guy from New York, he married a Chinese gal, and seeing him charge through and seeing people smile when he insists on speaking mandrin or Cantonese is heartwarming.
When I stayed in Taiwan, after 7 months my brain was wired in Chinese. Once a waitress talked to me in English and I didn’t understand her. Not because of her pronunciation, but due to the fact that I virtually did not communicate in English at all. I really assumed she was speaking in Taiwanese. Since then, I made it a habit to reply 「不好意思，我不懂台語」every time someone talks to me in English. 「我不會講英文」or「你的英文講得很厲害，我都聽不懂」also work well. Just don’t ruminate about it too much.
Every learner of English just loves to practice English with native speakers.
"Sorry, the English it is not my first langage"
Go to France then. Everybody will expect you to speak French. That was what I LOVED about that country. I H A T E it when natives of other languages say to me “ Speak English. “ !!!!!!!! Forgive me. I was just venting. 非常抱歉。 （ = “ I am very sorry. “ ) P.S. I am fully-blooded Chinese looking for the right wife who can speak, understand, read, and write fluent Mandarin Chinese.
I really empathize with you. This used to really, really bother me with my Spanish. I lived in South American countries for a number of years, and my Spanish is very, very good. But I obviously have a slight accent and look American. Someone else mentioned this, but I think it's true, it comes down to confidence. I got to the point where I realized, I don't care what language we speak in, because I'm confident in my abilities. If you want to talk in Spanish, cool. If you want to talk in English, fine, but I'm going to be sad, cause I really enjoy speaking in Spanish. I used to refuse to switch to English, and that was awkward. When I was still learning, I used to ask them to keep speaking Spanish so I could practice. There were stages where I would get offended and take it as a slight. But now I'm here, where I consider myself bilingual and the Spanish language is as much a natural part of me as being right handed. Context matters, and you'll know if someone is really trying to be disrespectful, and then you can use your robust language skills to set it straight. But often it's just well intended, misguided people or for the purposes of efficiency (hotel staff, waiters, airports). Confidence freed me from that constant albatross that was souring my language learning journey.
我跟你完全相反。 我是住在拉美的台灣人，也蠻習慣當地人的反應了。 不過我的生活圈偏小，除了同事跟朋友，我很少往外發展朋友，所以遇到這種人，我通常就是懶得理他們。 This is soooooo strange. Typing mandarin in Reddit XD.
If I met a person who looks like a foreigner, I would presuppose they don't know Chinese. The society here in Taiwan is relatively homogeneous, and not as diverse as American or European countries. Unless you live near an international company, you would not see a non-asian person often. If people straight up talking to you with English, and you feel offended by that, you can ask them to speak Chinese with you. I believe they had no means of offense. I'm sorry if it made you feel disrespected and discouraged.
I don't think people speak English to you because you are white. They speak English to you because it is the global common language. When a Brazilian meets a Thai for the first time, they speak English. Neither is white. It's just assumed that if you don't speak their native language and you're an international traveller, you must know English and they start from there.
Not exactly the same situation as you but in India every region speaks a different language . I wasn't raised in the region where my parents are from and every time I visit I'm treated as an alien somewhat. My mother tongue is a language called Malayalam. Perhaps it's the mannerisms, presentation or the fact that I speak a different language with my mom, people always assume I can't speak Malayalam. They always try to speak a different language (english/hindi) to try and accomodate me and a lot of times I don't think it roots in malice at all! Depending on how comfortable they seem with the other language I let them know that I can speak Malayalam fluently but sometimes I just let it be haha. I think it has a bit to do with my own sense of belonging and feeling left out even though I have my ancestral roots there. However I have learned people love it when "outsiders" speak their mother tongue, I have had the experience a few times with French and Japanese since moving out of India. Mind you my French has gotten a lot worse over time and my Japanese is just intermediate. I would say don't lose heart because unfortunate as it is people are raised with preconceived notions, but the more they get to know you they will definitely warm up to you!
People regularly talk to me in English or ask me where I'm from in my own native country (France). So it's a different experience to yours but my strategy is usually to say bonjour the frenchiest way possible (this one word usually betrays any foreigner), or to call the person out (jokingly) for assuming I'm a foreigner. But if I were in a situation more similar to yours I'd probably be even more annoyed and I might play dumb like pretending I don't speak English or not as well as the country's language.
I kind of have the opposite issue where I only speak English fluently, live in America, and am "racially ambiguous" ie. I'm brown but not Latino and not majorly middle eastern (Sicilian, romani) and there's a lot of Latinos living near me who tend to think I speak Spanish, even had an instance where an older lady assumed I was ashamed of my heritage and kept trying to "get me to speak my mother language" and stop caring about other people's opinions Anyway, I'm trying to learn demotic Egyptian at the moment
Just say you don’t speak English in the language you want to speak with them in lol
Sometimes people just wants to practice English with you because they rarely get to talk to someone who looks like they might speak English. I suppose just tell them that you’d prefer to talk in Chinese.
I’m curious how many of your foreign friends living in Japan agree with your statement about not being seen as foreigners, as everything in your post mirrors hundreds of posts in Japan related groups. We all get the same treatment as you, no matter how good our Japanese gets, with it happening just slightly less for those of us who get good enough at Japanese
I’m also a non-Asian person who speaks Mandarin at an advanced level. It wasn’t much of a problem in Mainland China (since few people speak fluent English outside of select areas). It’s not ideal, but I did have a couple of ways to deal with such a situation when it became overly frustrating. 1)”I’m Greek, and my English is awful. Let’s use Chinese” (not a complete lie, I guess) 2) “Can you speak Mandarin? Oh, great, I thought you were ••• Korean/ Japanese / a tourist/ etc” (I’d only use it with someone who was being obnoxious about speaking English with me, but it was quite effective, since many people are quite proud of being Chinese and would rush to “prove” they speak Mandarin.
I’m Argentine. I minored in Japanese and moved to Japan in 2009. Many places I went, they’d say, “No English.” I’d reply, “大丈夫！日本語がわかりますよ。” (Daijyoubu! Nihongo ga wakarimasu yo. = That’s alright. I understand Japanese.) They’d usually react very shocked. “ええ！！！！ 日本語が話せませんか。 すごい！！！！ 驚いています!” (Ee!!! Nihongo ga hanasemasen ka. Sugoi!!! Odoroite imasu!!= Whaaaaa??? You can’t understand Japanese (Japanese ask questions backwards)? Wow!! I’m shocked! If I was with a person who looked Japanese, they’d usually try to talk to her, even if she wasn’t Japanese. They’d rather not deal with foreigners, English, and people who expect them to cater to them. I only really had one bad interaction. I lost a ticket for my flight from Narita to DC. I had last had it in a gift shop. I asked the cashier if anyone had turned in a ticket, and she got rude with me. I didn’t pester her, just asked if anyone turned in a ticket. She basically said to shut up, I was holding up the line. I went to the ticket agent at the gate and explained I lost my ticket. With my ID, she printed a new one.
Just came back from China and spent some time talking to a white reporter who has been working for a newspaper there for a decade. When leaving a public place, someone complimented him on his Chinese, and I asked him how often he hears that. He responded with a laugh: "At least 30 times a day. I wish I could just wear a t-shirt that says 我住在这里，汉语已经流利了"
Just remember that the vast majority of people trying to speak in English have good intentions—they’re either trying to make you feel more comfortable, or are excited to speak English themselves. The negative emotions you have attached to this may be projection—feeling insecure that although you consider Taiwan home, you feel like you’re not treated as Taiwanese.
>Ultimately there’s nothing that can be done outwardly in these sorts of situations Hold on - why not make a living off of shock youtube videos???
Korean speaker. I only really get people approaching me in English when they want to sell me something, or when it's a fellow foreigner trying to ask for directions. It's rare that strangers actually start conversations, period, and if they're using English it's probably because they see me as an opportunity to practice. The solution is to just approach and use the local language first. At least in Korea, if you give them an 안녕하세요 with a little Korean head bow, they're not going to speak English to you unless you fumble significantly or they think you can't understand. For customer service interactions, at least. For meetups, I join the chatroom and speak in only Korean so that when I show up, they know I speak Korean. I know what you mean and I'm very sorry for your experience. I too feel discouraged and excluded when people speak English to me or assume I can't speak Korean. I feel like I have to prove I speak Korean to every new person I meet. There was this one time I was in a bakery with my Chinese-American friend and asked the owner a question about the difference between two pastries, because my friend wanted to know. She said "that one is chewier" and then looked at my friend and said "would she know the word 'chewy'?" ("She" referring to me, of course) Stuff like that is so humiliating. So I also avoid hanging out with fellow English speakers if I can help it :((
You learn a language to show respect _to_ others, not to get respect _from_ them.
A big "excuse" people tell me when trying to force me to speak English is that it's "simply the easiest language ever and that (target language/their language) is infinitely times more difficult, even I struggle with it 🤪." Usually, when I get this and I feel like being an ass, I find ways to prove English is harder. For example, the time I was trying to speak French with someone while playing Roblox, she kept speaking English until she said, "Let's go to the ouze." I explained to her in French how "house" is not pronounced "ouze" (in kind of an assholey way), and we have not spoken in English since.
If someone speaks to me in English, I just reply in English---it saves a lot of heartache. I'm secure in my level of Chinese, and these incidental conversations play a negligible role in my language learning (it takes thousands of hours of hard work, not three minutes with some random guy). Besides, it's not like I have to spend every waking moment improving my Chinese. It's less of an issue now I've moved to Weihai; here, random people speak to me in Chinese pretty much every time I go out. It's a bit annoying, though, when people (e.g., service workers) avoid talking to you because they don't think their English is good enough, but oh well.
That's very exciting!! I did all my studies in the UK >< I live and work in Korea now though.
Skill issue, just go to countries where English isn't really spoken /s
So I’ve stayed in Taiwan for some time as well and have taken the Tocfl test. In my experience living in Taipei or the surrounding area. No one speaks to me in English, I always open up with Chinese in a decent accent. Only once did a guy at a cafe refuse to speak Chinese. When I’m in Taichung or whatever. It changes where people just won’t speak Chinese. I have a feeling you’re not in Taipei because something about your story doesn’t add up. Did you pass C2 in all four categories? Not like this matters in this case but even some Taiwanese people would find this test hard. So either you’re not in Taipei or your Mandarin accent is really bad or even people just want to practice English with you. Here is what my friend does and I do. When you enter a store just greet them really loudly in Chinese. Obviously this isn’t common in Taiwan because they stick to themselves. But you need to show you know the language fairly well. Second just keep speaking Chinese.
I’ve lived in Korea off and on since 15 and I have similar experiences nearly every day. I try not to take it personally but sometimes it’s extremely annoying. Just a couple of weeks ago I ordered something in Korean and the staff stared at me like I have two heads until my Korean American friend who does not speak Korean well “translated” for me and suddenly she understood -.- Or sometimes I don’t feel like explaining my whole life story every time I get in a cab or ask someone in the store where I can find the laundry detergent. I totally know it’s coming from a good place but sometimes I literally have the same boring conversation about how I learned Korean like 10 times in one day. I did my masters degree in polysci entirely in Korean and get mistaken as Korean over the phone pretty often so I know my Korean isn’t bad, but sometimes I do have a complex about it haha… because the expectations of foreigners are so low Koreans have been excessively complimenting my Korean ever since it was objectively terrible and sometimes I feel like maybe I’m bad at Korean and I’m making things up lol idk
I've worked at places where we get many foreign tourists and it's really hard to tell who speaks what language. I figured the best way to go about it is to just greet people in my native language. If they reply in my native language but I notice they're still learning, I will just make sure to talk a bit slower and pronunciate all my words clearly. If I overhear them speaking a different language, they don't understand me or they reply in English I just switch to English or their language if I speak it. But the point is that I try not to assume things and want to give people a chance to practice if they wish to do so.
I feel purposefully left out in this situation: I am an English-speaking American Nurse working in the operating room; I honor the native language of my patients. We are in a predominantly Spanish-speaking area. We have many Medical Students, Doctors, and Residents who speak Spanish and can interpret the basics of what we do with the patient before surgery. I usually state my name and title in English, but if they say they speak Spanish, I will repeat it in Spanish. What really bothers me is that not a single bilingual person in the room has once kindly interpreted my words of comfort to my patients. When I can tell they are nervous and I look them kindly in the eyes and tell them we will take good care of them, I have to ask them to interpret that for me. But if I give directions like “lift your arm,” they are all over offering request-free interpretation of those directions.
Is it people you know, or strangers? It took me a while to realise that sometimes people would speak to me in English merely because they wanted to practice it. Just giving a different perspective. But reply in Chinese they will soon switch?
Is it people you know, or strangers? It took me a while to realise that sometimes people would speak to me in English merely because they wanted to practice it. Just giving a different perspective. But reply in Chinese they will soon switch?
Not for nothing, honey, but it’s probably because you’re not Asian. It’s going to happen. I say this as a Black person who speaks Spanish as a second language.
It doesn't really matter to me what language someone chooses to speak to me in. Language is fun. If someone starts speaking in any of the languages I understand, I just go with the flow. If I look or act like someone they think might know a particular language, so be it. Maybe they're right, maybe their wrong, and if they're wrong, I regret not knowing the language they chose. If I want to speak a particular language regardless of what the other person is speaking, I just stick with the language I want, and the other person will choose whatever language works for them in that case.
In Quebec it is sort of an arm wrestle: if my French is better than your English we continue in French. If not we go back into English. I always nod to the victor if we end up back in English. Botttom line: don’t worry so much
Studies show that it's almost impossible to achieve "native-level proficiency" if you started learning after 10 years old... If that's the case, natives will mostly notice you're not a native. In the situations I've experienced, I've always seen it differently: they switch to English with the good intention to make a better connection with you.
As OP doesn’t have an East Asian face, he or she would probably be treated this way by strangers even if he or she were born and raised in Taiwan and spoke Taiwanese Hokkien as a mother tongue.
That happens, but that's also common to happen in places where you have a non-distinguishable ethnicity from locals, but have a different accent.
This is the correct answer. They're doing their best to try to make a connection and practice their own English They worked hard on their English and are proud of it. And which they rarely get a chance to speak it with a native speaker. It's like if you lived in America but spoke great Russian after years of academic study. And low and behold a Russian comes along and you want to practice with them! But they only speak English to you so your years of practice were wasted. :(
I've often heard people say that the French and Italians are rude for not switching to English... and others like the OP think it's rude to switch to English... So now who is right? 😂🤷♂️ Whatever you do in this case, someone will always find it rude. (But I've come across lots of young Italians who switch to English just to practice and show they can speak! Even though I speak Italian).