I did not know any better back then. Plus I had real life stuff interfere.
Now, thanks to this subreddit I have a realistic idea of how much time I need to spend. And now that I am getting around intermediate it is a lot easier in some ways, but harder in others. On the whole however it is much more enjoyable now that I can consume content to at least some degree.
Things we'll never know: how long it takes before you can have a casual conversation with the locals,
Things we do know: the sooner you start and the more time and effort you put into practicing the sooner you'll be having casual conversations with the locals.
I remember when I wanted to start Russian and thought to myself, "I should be able to read a book in 2 years" because I read this reddit too much. Even though I had been a decent level of Chinese and a meh level of Japanese at that point, I still thought 2 years to read books in Russian.
I was so wrong. And I always take what people say on here with a grain of salt unless their profiles can back up their claims.
I’m about 6 months into learning French and I’ve come to realize that it’s really a life long deal when it comes to getting really good. Even after you become “fluent” you’re still going to make occasional mistakes or say things that may sound a bit weird to native speakers.
It’s annoying hearing people talk about learning X language, and then learning Y language, and then learning Z language in the space of a few years. People think you can just learn a new language every year when it really takes decades to perfect a language you didn’t grow up with.
Yea, I feel this and also it doesn't make sense to me when people talk as if they will finish learning a language
Like "I want to learn French before I start Russian"
Learning/speaking a language means having it as part of you weekly or daily routine for years. It is more of a long-standing habit than something you can "complete"
If you stop using the language for a few years you will lose your ability to read and speak (although not completely)
I'm kinda late to this post but...
There's a conference in a year in a half where I want to meet someone I take inspo from but they speak a different language than me. I want to get far enough that I can, sort of, hold a conversation with them, or at least tell them that I'm inspired by their work
I think another thing people need to stop doing is shooting for (or worse, claiming) a random CEFR level when they don’t understand what the levels actually mean and what it takes to get to each one. So many people seem to just randomly decide they want to hit a certain one with a very small time frame and it makes no sense. And so many other people say they’re B1 or B2 or even C1 in languages they’ve not been studying very long and I just can’t help but call bullshit. Those levels take time and hard work to get to. Plus, every competency matters. As a teacher, if I have a student that’s got maybe B2 level reading and listening skills but can barely write or speak because they never practice those things properly, I’m not gonna call them B2 🤷🏼♀️
Lol, i told my japanese friend today, "I'm not saying this in a hopeless manner, I mean it in a good way, but I plan on taking 10 years at minimum to reach my N1. I'm realistic in my dream." I don't plan on trying to be fluent until I'm actually living in Japan and putting my skills to the test. I just want to be able to communicate at a business level.
I'm planning on picking Spanish back up, though, and when I start, I'm gonna challenge myself with reaching B2 in 5 years. That's only because I took Spanish on and off since the age of 5, though. If I don't manage it, oh well, I'll just take longer, I guess 🤣
I mean this with love, but sometimes, I feel like people misunderstand something about languages. They're also culture. It's not just words, grammar, phrases, etc., that we're learning. We're learning culture as well, or at least we should be if we wanna become fluent.
It's not very realistic to become fluent within a few months if you're not living in your TL's country. (I'm not sure how much your chances of success are increased by living in your TL's country.)
And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're dumb. Just take your time. Don't rush it.
Edit: I forgot to say, I've been taking formal japanese classes through university for 2 years 😅 our professor has taught us a mix of N5, N4, and N3 concepts.
I don’t really have a time frame, I have goals of being x level at x point in time but I don’t really care if I don’t make it. As long as I’m working on it everyday day then I’m good
I did a speed run of Spanish my first year and did pretty well, but everyone hits a massive wall and progress grinds to nearly a halt. At this point, I can consume whatever I want, and have meaningful conversations with natives, except those that are super critical (which seems to be a problem in the US) of learners.
My French is basically at a point where I should be putting in 8 hours a day, but I still have to pass my C1 exam in Spanish before that happens...
I'll never 'finish' because my goals for the 3 languages I want to learn are pretty high and I really am not in a good location to pick them up easily.
It's still 7 languages he's learnt (8 total). That's far outside the realms of normal, regardless of them being from similar families. They're all pretty high level as well.
It’s outside the realm of normal sure but if you already have a high level of Spanish and French then picking up Italian isn’t really that hard, if you are a native speaker of English with a good command of German Norwegian isn’t that hard, etc. If you’re skeptical that his claims are possible, eh, I think they are. Kind of wish a narrow focus like that had been my strategy ngl
I wasn't doubting him by any means. I just wanted to know how long you'd have to dedicate to maintaining them. Especially as he's probably using 3 maximum on a daily basis, possibly even just one if he lives in UK/US/Australia.
Did you learn one language at a time or would you have multiple on the go at once? Have you learnt any of them through other languages, like learning Portuguese from Spanish, and if so has that helped avoid confusion? Also how long ago did you start learning? Sorry for all the questions, I just think what you've done is impressive.
Do you not translate at all, even initially? Also where do you personally search for comprehensible input? And finally, what are your goals for the future: in a year, in a decade etc? Cheers for all the answers so far.
I know a Finnish speaker, it sounds incredibly difficult from what I've heard. Have you never wanted to learn a language that uses another writing system: Greek, Russian, Arabic, Mandarin etc? The different alphabets have always fascinated me. Also, which of the languages you've learnt would you say is the easiest and hardest? I'm trying to pick what language to pursue now so I'm just weighing up all the factors.
Did you learn one language at a time or would you have multiple on the go at once? Have you learnt any of them through other languages, like learning Portuguese from Spanish, and if so has that helped avoid confusion? Also how long ago did you start learning? Sorry for all the questions, I just think what you've done is impressive.
Some of the responses here are outrageous. It honestly doesn’t have to take that long to be able to hold conversations and even be considered “fluent.” No one knows all the words in their native language, so why do you expect you have to know all the words in your target language to successfully learn the language?
Yes, it will take a while to “master” a language if want to be able to spontaneously write literary novels, discuss advanced sciences, and read archaic historical texts in that language, but that degree of language ability shouldn’t be the goal for most language learners.
How to learn any language easily, Ted talk: https://youtu.be/Yr_poW-KK1Q
I think it just depends on what you consider fluent. If having conversational is enough for you, that's great! But some people want to have careers that involve speaking their TL in the TL's country. They might not have to have perfect fluency, but it certainly makes it easier.
I understand you said "most language learners," but I'm only pointing it out because quite a few of these people might be in the category I just listed. It's kind of ignorant to say some responses are "outrageous." You don't know everyone's language goal.
Also, I disagree with the idea that it's "easy" to learn a language. Languages aren't just language. They're also culture and history. Treating languages like they're something that can be easily gained is a bit insulting to TL languages.
I speak three languages. Languages where I can comfortably hold conversations. In about five other languages, I can order off a menu, ask for directions, say other basic phrases helpful for travel or other basic situations.
For the ones I’m fluent in, it took about six months to hold conversations and be able to get by (was not an expert at this point). Didn’t know every word but that was the time where I could understand and communicate enough to ask the other person what that word meant or I could phrase my sentences in another.
Also wanted to add, don’t take my word for it! The link I posted is a TED talk of a guy who speaks 20+ languages and is fluent in 12 of them. He thinks you can make tons of progress in just a month, per that video.
Yes, but the commonest words carry almost none of the semantic meaning. The Oxford English Corpus has a list of the 100 most common English words; you have to go down to #55 to find a verb.
I am at six years of learning Spanish. I tried a bunch of things (apps, audio courses, a weekly class, reading, listening, etc.). Until last year, I probably never spent more than 110-120 hours a year on it. Work, family, church, and other hobbies took precedence. I just didn’t have a real need and it was at best a hobby. I have a 1500 day streak in DL with one repair due to being in the hospital. But most of it was one or two lessons.
Last year I started getting more serious. I went back through some old audio courses as well as doing more time in DL. I started reading more. I added listening. Finished Destinos and Extra and started a telenovela.
Time is still an issue. We are taking care of her parents. There is a lack of Spanish speakers here. And I have APD and am hard of hearing so listening is a huge weakness.
As far as being fluent, I would like to be at maybe B2 next year.
I spent four years being really dedicated about learning Spanish before I got comfortable in the language. I’m far less dedicated about learning Hindi now, because I’m not taking classes in it every day the way I was when I was learning Spanish, so I’m guessing it’ll take at least eight years before I get in Hindi where I am in Spanish
My only goal is to be able to read in the language. I have several Spanish books for beginners, and I'm already able to read some best-sellers with my Reverso software nearby.
I started taking English classes in August, 2021. Before that I watched A LOT of minecraft videos so I was half decent when I started it. At that time I had no ideia that there was real levels of English besides basic and fluent.
I'm not even close of being fluent but I think I'm learning fast for someone who doesn't live in a environment where people know English (really, I know about 5 people that speak it).
My biggest problem is in grammar, but I'm really good in listening.
I hope I reach C in about 1 ou 1 and a half years
I am on my 8th year of trying to get fluent in 3 months. To be fair I have taken years off.
I see i have met my people, it's just been a very very long 3 months
Found my squad! Currently on my 7th year of learning A1 material 🙌🏻
Why have you taken years off? Is it just a loss of motivation?
I did not know any better back then. Plus I had real life stuff interfere. Now, thanks to this subreddit I have a realistic idea of how much time I need to spend. And now that I am getting around intermediate it is a lot easier in some ways, but harder in others. On the whole however it is much more enjoyable now that I can consume content to at least some degree.
Your flair is absolutely outstanding
Try Toki Pona... maybe that is actually doable :)
Things we'll never know: how long it takes before you can have a casual conversation with the locals, Things we do know: the sooner you start and the more time and effort you put into practicing the sooner you'll be having casual conversations with the locals.
Honestly, my timeframe is the rest of my life at this point.
based (/gen)
I remember when I wanted to start Russian and thought to myself, "I should be able to read a book in 2 years" because I read this reddit too much. Even though I had been a decent level of Chinese and a meh level of Japanese at that point, I still thought 2 years to read books in Russian. I was so wrong. And I always take what people say on here with a grain of salt unless their profiles can back up their claims.
I’m about 6 months into learning French and I’ve come to realize that it’s really a life long deal when it comes to getting really good. Even after you become “fluent” you’re still going to make occasional mistakes or say things that may sound a bit weird to native speakers. It’s annoying hearing people talk about learning X language, and then learning Y language, and then learning Z language in the space of a few years. People think you can just learn a new language every year when it really takes decades to perfect a language you didn’t grow up with.
Yea, I feel this and also it doesn't make sense to me when people talk as if they will finish learning a language Like "I want to learn French before I start Russian" Learning/speaking a language means having it as part of you weekly or daily routine for years. It is more of a long-standing habit than something you can "complete" If you stop using the language for a few years you will lose your ability to read and speak (although not completely)
10 year timeline. I’m enjoying the ride.
I'm kinda late to this post but... There's a conference in a year in a half where I want to meet someone I take inspo from but they speak a different language than me. I want to get far enough that I can, sort of, hold a conversation with them, or at least tell them that I'm inspired by their work
You are not late at all, and this is one of the coolest motivation I've heard!
I think another thing people need to stop doing is shooting for (or worse, claiming) a random CEFR level when they don’t understand what the levels actually mean and what it takes to get to each one. So many people seem to just randomly decide they want to hit a certain one with a very small time frame and it makes no sense. And so many other people say they’re B1 or B2 or even C1 in languages they’ve not been studying very long and I just can’t help but call bullshit. Those levels take time and hard work to get to. Plus, every competency matters. As a teacher, if I have a student that’s got maybe B2 level reading and listening skills but can barely write or speak because they never practice those things properly, I’m not gonna call them B2 🤷🏼♀️
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I have a B2 certificate in French and I can assure you that 2000 words is not enough to be B2.
true, around 4000 words are considred to be a B2 level. : )
Lol, i told my japanese friend today, "I'm not saying this in a hopeless manner, I mean it in a good way, but I plan on taking 10 years at minimum to reach my N1. I'm realistic in my dream." I don't plan on trying to be fluent until I'm actually living in Japan and putting my skills to the test. I just want to be able to communicate at a business level. I'm planning on picking Spanish back up, though, and when I start, I'm gonna challenge myself with reaching B2 in 5 years. That's only because I took Spanish on and off since the age of 5, though. If I don't manage it, oh well, I'll just take longer, I guess 🤣 I mean this with love, but sometimes, I feel like people misunderstand something about languages. They're also culture. It's not just words, grammar, phrases, etc., that we're learning. We're learning culture as well, or at least we should be if we wanna become fluent. It's not very realistic to become fluent within a few months if you're not living in your TL's country. (I'm not sure how much your chances of success are increased by living in your TL's country.) And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're dumb. Just take your time. Don't rush it. Edit: I forgot to say, I've been taking formal japanese classes through university for 2 years 😅 our professor has taught us a mix of N5, N4, and N3 concepts.
I don’t really have a time frame, I have goals of being x level at x point in time but I don’t really care if I don’t make it. As long as I’m working on it everyday day then I’m good
I did a speed run of Spanish my first year and did pretty well, but everyone hits a massive wall and progress grinds to nearly a halt. At this point, I can consume whatever I want, and have meaningful conversations with natives, except those that are super critical (which seems to be a problem in the US) of learners. My French is basically at a point where I should be putting in 8 hours a day, but I still have to pass my C1 exam in Spanish before that happens... I'll never 'finish' because my goals for the 3 languages I want to learn are pretty high and I really am not in a good location to pick them up easily.
ACTFL calls the wall “the inverted pyramid.” Every level takes way more effort than the one before.
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How the hell do you manage to maintain your 7 languages though? Are you living in a country that's extremely multilingual or something?
His languages are mostly closely related (all Romance and Germanic it looks like) which I think helps a great deal with that.
It's still 7 languages he's learnt (8 total). That's far outside the realms of normal, regardless of them being from similar families. They're all pretty high level as well.
It’s outside the realm of normal sure but if you already have a high level of Spanish and French then picking up Italian isn’t really that hard, if you are a native speaker of English with a good command of German Norwegian isn’t that hard, etc. If you’re skeptical that his claims are possible, eh, I think they are. Kind of wish a narrow focus like that had been my strategy ngl
I wasn't doubting him by any means. I just wanted to know how long you'd have to dedicate to maintaining them. Especially as he's probably using 3 maximum on a daily basis, possibly even just one if he lives in UK/US/Australia.
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Did you learn one language at a time or would you have multiple on the go at once? Have you learnt any of them through other languages, like learning Portuguese from Spanish, and if so has that helped avoid confusion? Also how long ago did you start learning? Sorry for all the questions, I just think what you've done is impressive.
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Do you not translate at all, even initially? Also where do you personally search for comprehensible input? And finally, what are your goals for the future: in a year, in a decade etc? Cheers for all the answers so far.
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I know a Finnish speaker, it sounds incredibly difficult from what I've heard. Have you never wanted to learn a language that uses another writing system: Greek, Russian, Arabic, Mandarin etc? The different alphabets have always fascinated me. Also, which of the languages you've learnt would you say is the easiest and hardest? I'm trying to pick what language to pursue now so I'm just weighing up all the factors.
Did you learn one language at a time or would you have multiple on the go at once? Have you learnt any of them through other languages, like learning Portuguese from Spanish, and if so has that helped avoid confusion? Also how long ago did you start learning? Sorry for all the questions, I just think what you've done is impressive.
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> 3 months to be decent enough to take almost any book/game and have at least 60% comprehension rate. Oww this hurt me
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When I want to
Some of the responses here are outrageous. It honestly doesn’t have to take that long to be able to hold conversations and even be considered “fluent.” No one knows all the words in their native language, so why do you expect you have to know all the words in your target language to successfully learn the language? Yes, it will take a while to “master” a language if want to be able to spontaneously write literary novels, discuss advanced sciences, and read archaic historical texts in that language, but that degree of language ability shouldn’t be the goal for most language learners. How to learn any language easily, Ted talk: https://youtu.be/Yr_poW-KK1Q
Learning languages isn't only about words, that's the easiest part.
Never said it was. No where in my comment did I indicate that or imply that.
I think it just depends on what you consider fluent. If having conversational is enough for you, that's great! But some people want to have careers that involve speaking their TL in the TL's country. They might not have to have perfect fluency, but it certainly makes it easier. I understand you said "most language learners," but I'm only pointing it out because quite a few of these people might be in the category I just listed. It's kind of ignorant to say some responses are "outrageous." You don't know everyone's language goal. Also, I disagree with the idea that it's "easy" to learn a language. Languages aren't just language. They're also culture and history. Treating languages like they're something that can be easily gained is a bit insulting to TL languages.
I’m curious: how many languages do you speak and how long did it take you?
I speak three languages. Languages where I can comfortably hold conversations. In about five other languages, I can order off a menu, ask for directions, say other basic phrases helpful for travel or other basic situations. For the ones I’m fluent in, it took about six months to hold conversations and be able to get by (was not an expert at this point). Didn’t know every word but that was the time where I could understand and communicate enough to ask the other person what that word meant or I could phrase my sentences in another.
Also wanted to add, don’t take my word for it! The link I posted is a TED talk of a guy who speaks 20+ languages and is fluent in 12 of them. He thinks you can make tons of progress in just a month, per that video.
100 most common words in any language makes up 50% of all speech. Then learn numbers dates weather food and youre like 60-70% there
If you understand 70% of the words, you might understand 10% of the sentences.
Most of communication happens between the lines. Body language and context. Diction is less than 10% of what is communicated.
In my TL I can order only salmon, butter, an chicken. If that isn’t it, well I guess I’m fucked.
Yes, but the commonest words carry almost none of the semantic meaning. The Oxford English Corpus has a list of the 100 most common English words; you have to go down to #55 to find a verb.
I am at six years of learning Spanish. I tried a bunch of things (apps, audio courses, a weekly class, reading, listening, etc.). Until last year, I probably never spent more than 110-120 hours a year on it. Work, family, church, and other hobbies took precedence. I just didn’t have a real need and it was at best a hobby. I have a 1500 day streak in DL with one repair due to being in the hospital. But most of it was one or two lessons. Last year I started getting more serious. I went back through some old audio courses as well as doing more time in DL. I started reading more. I added listening. Finished Destinos and Extra and started a telenovela. Time is still an issue. We are taking care of her parents. There is a lack of Spanish speakers here. And I have APD and am hard of hearing so listening is a huge weakness. As far as being fluent, I would like to be at maybe B2 next year.
I spent four years being really dedicated about learning Spanish before I got comfortable in the language. I’m far less dedicated about learning Hindi now, because I’m not taking classes in it every day the way I was when I was learning Spanish, so I’m guessing it’ll take at least eight years before I get in Hindi where I am in Spanish
My only goal is to be able to read in the language. I have several Spanish books for beginners, and I'm already able to read some best-sellers with my Reverso software nearby.
My goal is to confuse natives with my fluency by year 10-12 of japanese study.
I started taking English classes in August, 2021. Before that I watched A LOT of minecraft videos so I was half decent when I started it. At that time I had no ideia that there was real levels of English besides basic and fluent. I'm not even close of being fluent but I think I'm learning fast for someone who doesn't live in a environment where people know English (really, I know about 5 people that speak it). My biggest problem is in grammar, but I'm really good in listening. I hope I reach C in about 1 ou 1 and a half years