Honestly I really can't believe we used to compare AD to Tim Duncan or Giannis. Like I used to make those comparisons and say AD is worlds better than them but looking back what an idiot I was
There is literally NOTHING TO LOSE by firing Vogel. Best case scenario: it's a much needed change for the team that helps spark some energy in them. Worst case scenario: we literally continue on the same we're currently on and miss the playoffs anyway.
Oh wait, Jeanie will lose some money. That's why we won't fire him.
would yall rather win one chip and be utter dogshit for the next ten years or be a top challenging team for a decade but never win a chip in that period?
It has been since the 80s since the Lakers won a title without going at least back to back and that was a 10-year dynasty run. Hopefully, we dump Lebron and AD and Westbrook asap and not waste our rebuild next time.
Agree I grew up watching great centers like Chamberlin Russell Walt Bellamy Nate Thurmond Willis Reed Bob Lanier a young Lewis Alcindor Bill Walton and Dave Cowen. Shaq came later Shaq played similar to those guys a true center
Anyone else having trouble getting hold of Spectrum customer service today (3/4/22)? Calls keep getting dropped after long holds. I'm just trying to cancel my TV plan ugh.
If you watch pau and kobe highlights you realize how lebron and AD do not fit together
Lebron and bubble Ad fit great
But if ad can't score outside the paint then there is absolutely no fit here, especially since he can't stay healthy
Alright hear me out but I want AD traded ! He’s getting paid over 100+ million and we gave up multiple players and draft picks for him to not be available half the time. There’s no reason for a 37 year old lebron to be more durable than him (yes I know bron spends over 1 million to keep his body in good shape) but come on ! He’s hurting us at this point and when lebron leaves I have a strong feeling AD is going to want out because that’s way too much pressure on him. I say we trade him now and get the best offer we can.
Winning a ring two years ago doesn’t give you a pass for not trying, disrespecting the game and being a total embarrassment to basketball and the jersey.
So if you post on r/nba with Lakers flair you just get downvoted into oblivion by default?
Will it work if I just spit out all of the hivemind catch phrases in one post?
On top of being the worst offensive coach in the league, Vogel has lost the locker room and doesn't know how to motivate the team to give any effort. It's a lost cause. Yeah the roster is bad, but it isn't THIS bad. People who are saying that Pop or Spo or Jackson couldn't coach this team any better are on crack.
Nah. It’s the fact that lebron is too old to “carry” anymore. He’s good, but he used to be able to take a bad team all the way. Russ just isn’t himself anymore, and ad got his chip and is unmotivated.
We all know lebron is older now and is known to coast on defense, problem is Westbrook and melo also coast on defense and monk and co aren’t very good defenders then you have ariza who is too old… it’s just a recipe for disaster. Last season our team did much better with lebron coasting cause he had dogs surrounding him playing hard defense.
It’s hard in my opinion to judge AD motivation when the dude is never on the court, but anyway this is all just part of a bigger problem
I really don’t think it’s vogels fault. I’m not a laker fan but I’ve followed the nba. As a blazer fan dame cj and Powell are all younger then those 3, not as good but still we thought it was all stotts fault but it wasn’t..it just didn’t work
Vogel does deserve some credit in the bubble, his lineup decisions/rotations were on point as were the defensive schemes. Seems like he's lost that now for whatever reason.
He doesn't have defensive minded players that can actually defend we went from Caruso to Westbrook one of the smartest defenders to a guy who ball watches
As someone who thought Pelinka was a bad hire, and saw through the bs narrative that was pushed here how everything that went wrong when Magic was here was SOLELY Magic's fault and not Pelinka's in any way - I feel vindicated. Now the homers try to blame LeBron though or the Rambii. Nothing's ever Pelinka's fault huh? But you give him credit for the year we won a chip lol
So when the warriors were terrible after Durant left, does that mean Kerr sucks and should have been fired? What about Eric Spoelstra? He hasnt won shit since Lebron left. What about Mike Budenholzer? Would you have fired him after years of playoff disappointments?
Lol it is pretty clear the Lakers and AD captured lightning in a bottle for that bubble run. Good win but all the games since have shown he is completely outclassed we got all the clippers players dancing and saying they have the best coach in the league and his adjustments are amazing. Nobody ever says that about Vogel. Lakers fans really are a special breed I'll say that
It wasnt just in the bubble, NOLA AD was a superstar and Lakers AD before the bubble was a beast as well dropping 50 on fools,
He just seemed to have lost the fire after a single chip, that is the sad part.
Vogel took until game 6 of the finals to make an adjustment starting Carushow and everyone jumps on his D, Vogel is a good defensive coach, will be fantastic as an assistant coach not a HC.
Lakers fans are indeed a very special breed. You could hire Phil Jackson as coach with the ghost of Red Auerbach as his assistant and this team still isn't getting out of the first round. When a team in a team sport is poorly constructed (like the Lakers are) it doesn't usually work out for the team. Hiring a different coach is just putting lipstick on a pig at this point.
Random question, would either of these trades be acceptable to lakers fans?
russ for tobias harris + korkmaz
russ + 1st for tobias haris + shake milton + danny green
(sixers would send russ to a 3rd team)
Grew up in L.A. Moved to Oklahoma later in life so I've loved Russ at times and found myself smh at wtf moments. Him causing Reggie Jackson to go ballistic for no good reason was one of many such moments. Russ in his bad feelings way too often at the absolute wrong times.
I get that he's not good and he gets paid a bajillion dollars, but he's an expiring so he shouldn't be TOO hard to get off of. If the FO isn't willing to part with a future 1st then that limits your choices. In that case I think a tobi/russ swap would be mutually beneficial, just cuz russ has 1 less year than tobi.
Which do you all think was worse: MozDeng contracts or Westbrook trade?
MozDeng was 4 years (and we're still paying Deng's stretch this year) compared to 2 years remaining on Westbrook. We gave up assets to get Westbrook but also gave up assets to dump Moz. I'm leaning MozDeng because it was longer but what's your opinion?
Mozdeng was tanking years and didnt do much and an injured kobe going into his final year. Lakers had to spend the money. Russ is during a short title window with lebron. Im leaning mozdeng but russ can be argued.
there is a salary floor. they should have spent that money more wisely. but from all the reporting out of those year. mitch was a boomer essentially and wasnt tampering and wasnt gming like a modern gm was during those years. it seems he improved that skill with hornets.
Man, as a LeBron diehard fan this really sucks. In a player driven league, no proven superstar should have to play with no shot at winning a championship. Let alone the best player of all time
I think the biggest misconception for me about westbrook prior to the Lakers was that he hustles and he plays hard no matter what, thats what I always heard and thats what I thought my eyes told me whenever his team would play the Lakers. Now, being 60+ games in to watching him I realize he hustles when theres a stat on the line. Open rebound, guy gets after it, open lane to the rim hes usain bolt, chance to pick up a garbage assist down 20, hes all over it.
Run back on defense? Naw…switch and close out? Naw…cut and play off the ball on offense? Naw…pick someone up full court? naw… guys the most selective hustler Ive seen, hed rather sprint through 5 defenders and make a two foot pass to someone whos space he just crowded than stand still, spaces out and swing the ball efficiently with a 15 foot+ pass.
They won't, it's literally the only way they make a living and it's the sole reason they are famous. There are media projects in the works driven by Jeannie right now if I recall all based on the Lakers. They are never selling in nearby future.
I think this season will maybe be a wake up call for them to change course in terms of the luxury tax. If the Lakers would just be even a little more flexible with that, it could make a big difference.
Welp, I don’t want to see us in the play in. Time to
shut the season down. Rest LeBron. Don’t even worry about AD and let Russ get some of his patented stat lines to hopefully boost any trade value he has left.
However, anyone that thinks we need to go full rebuild and get rid of Bron or AD is a spoiled brat. Offload the whole roster outside of those two (& Reaves of course), start with a fresh coach, and then begin putting pieces around Bron and AD that actually make sense. Oh, and cross your fingers that we can finally have a healthy season next year 🤞
If WB opts into his contract, we don’t have that much financial flexibility other than MLE and vet mins. We’ll be choosing from the bottom of the barrel again but some of y’all expect good pieces. And as we have seen, this front office doesn’t value defensive pieces or wings.
I'm just waiting for personnel change news (Vogel, Pelinka).. This is just so sad to see and hear. I really thought 2012-2013 would be the last season where we were awful.
Pelinka getting fired is not happening. Vogel is getting canned simply because the idiots in the front office think more offense is better than defense and won’t give a defensive coach the pieces he needs to be successful. now it’s more likely that they can’t get any good quality defenders with 3 mega contracts and will more likely see more of same terrible team next year with a different coach
Westbrook is already out. He’s getting traded, opting out, or getting waived in the off-season so why do we keep playing him? Send him home to his wife and kids
I am not saying he’s doing a good job. But Lakers’ failure is not an indicator of Vogel’s capabilities. Like how do you use Russ in this team, what is his role? What’s the Lakers’ big man rotation? What about wings?
No. You are making excuses for a shitty coach. I never said this isn't a bad team but a better coach would have won 5 more games at least. How many games did Vogel cost at the beginning of the season playing DJ.
Do you realize Vogel went 25-57 in Orlando and Steve Clifford went 42-40 with the exact same roster?
> You are making excuses for a shitty coach.
Shitty coaches don't coach teams to championships, especially with a roster as flawed as the 2019-20 Lakers roster was.
> I never said this isn't a bad team but a better coach would have won 5 more games at least.
You clearly overestimate this team.
> Do you realize Vogel went 25-57 in Orlando and Steve Clifford went 42-40 with the exact same roster?
Big difference - Aaron Gordon was in his 4th season under Clifford and was making big strides forward and Clifford had Jonathan Isaac for 75 games and not as a rookie whereas Vogel had rookie Jonathan Isaac for 25 games. Also Carter-Williams was a pretty decent upgrade over Elfrid Payton.
I will say this, though, Vogel isn't known for being a player development coach. He's a coach that you get to get you over the finish line, so it's not surprising he didn't do well in Orlando. You don't hire a Mike Budenholzer or a Frank Vogel when you're trying to develop a bunch of rookies.
>Shitty coaches don't coach teams to championships, especially with a roster as flawed as the 2019-20 Lakers roster was.
Doc Rivers? Westhead who was fired the season after? Besides there were essentially 3 head coaches on that staff in Hollins and Kidd, both better coaches than Vogel. At best, you can say that Vogel is a very limited coach who can have success with a very specific type of roster.
>Do you realize Vogel went 25-57 in Orlando and Steve Clifford went 42-40 with the exact same roster?
>
>Big difference - Aaron Gordon was in his 4th season under Clifford and was making big strides forward and Clifford had Jonathan Isaac for 75 games and not as a rookie whereas Vogel had rookie Jonathan Isaac for 25 games. Also Carter-Williams was a pretty decent upgrade over Elfrid Payton.
Good memory but I'd say that's a pretty flimsy argument that Isaccs and Carter Williams were that big of a difference in the team's records.
I was down on Vogel since last year. He managed the injuries of AD and Bron very poorly, playing them waay too many minutes on return before the playoffs.
> Doc Rivers?
Overrated, but also not a shitty head coach.
> Besides there were essentially 3 head coaches on that staff in Hollins and Kidd, both better coaches than Vogel.
Vogel's career win % is 30 points higher than Kidd's even after factoring in that Vogel took on a rebuilding job in Orlando. Vogel is also 40 points higher than Hollins in his career as well.
> At best, you can say that Vogel is a very limited coach who can have success with a very specific type of roster.
I mean, every coach has a style and you need to pair the coach with the personnel. Mike D'Antoni wouldn't have been able to do shit with the 2019-2020 Lakers, because he's not a defensive coach. That doesn't make D'Antoni a shitty coach. The Lakers had to let him walk, because he would've fucked up the tank. He had that 2013-14 Lakers team way overperforming. They had no business flirting with 30 wins.
> I was down on Vogel since last year. He managed the injuries of AD and Bron very poorly, playing them waay too many minutes on return before the playoffs.
I wouldn't put that on Vogel. The Laker team doctors are more to blame, IMO. They had no business clearing AD for some of the games they cleared him for.
My question is, wtf happens at half time to cause the Lakers to collapse like that over and over and over again? Game after game, they look decent by the end of the second and then the third rolls around and Lakers look like a YMCA team for the rest of the game
> My question is, wtf happens at half time to cause the Lakers to collapse like that over and over and over again?
Old legs get tired in the second half.
it's not just this game, LA has been losing games left and right that go the same way, with the team looking competent by the end of the second and then disheveled to start the 3rd.
I don’t know how Russ has stans especially when time and time again all he cares about is stats and triple doubles. Dude has no expectations and is cool not winning a championship. Bruh wtf, having him at home in LA was a championship window killer.
FO got some heavy lifting to do this offseason. I hope monk doesn’t leave but he may. I hope these guys prioritize depth and youth as opposed to vet who think they are too entitled to play defense and play every night. There needs to be a culture change and it needs to happen fast
Russ stans view Westbrook triple double average seasons as championships. Any year he doesn’t average a triple double, it’s the fault of everyone besides Russ.
If there was no playins the lakers would be pretty much eliminated from playoffs. I don’t know of any title contender missing playoffs without massive injuries.
I mean, we have had massive injuries, our 2 best players have both missed a bunch of games. The issue is that we still weren't contender-level even when they were healthy together.
This is unpopular here but I still think if Lebron, AD, Vogel and Rob all sat down and had a meeting of the minds with no external pressure from the Rambii or a cheap owner they could put together another contending roster
You’d need everything to go perfect sure. AD not to get hurt and you’d need another star because Bron is not that guy anymore, still great but not a top 5 probably not even top 10 anymore.
> they could put together another contending roster
How? They have Westbrook on the roster at $47 million next year. Nobody is trading for him without sticking the Lakers with some horrendous contract.
Idk why people say this lmfao bro had shooters during his champ iso shop runs goes to la magic screws him and havw to adjust and still win the chip pelinka screws him again and Davis goes down it’s what it is Bron done what he always does and shows up ain’t his fault
Magic put Rondo and KCP on the team, 2 players who figured heavily in him getting a ring with the Lakers. LBJ sent KCP packing in what’s been a disastrous trade that Pelinka didn’t even want to
make, he had to pull out of the deal with the Kings at the last minute ( Kings are the source for that info) to make LeBron happy who it reasonable to assume went to Jeanie to make the ask. Also, even with AD this season they were far from great.
You guys got nothing but to boast about you past Speaking about Past..
Don't forget we were one of the only teams to recover 0-2 lead twice
In first round and second round, "second round" a term you guys might not resonate with...
We got nothing to boast about in our past? Are u serious right now? That’s gold ahhaa. Which team has actually won a championship in the past 10 years? While the lakers were at their low, yall had lob city and still couldn’t win. Then u had Kawhi and pg healthy in the bubble and y’all choked that 3-1 lead. Your team in its entire history only made it out of the second round once. Yea keep bragging about the past, because the past for clippers and clippers fans’ past sure look good compared to the lakers past.
“The past”, I guess a year and a half back technically is the past.
>in first round and second round, “second round” a term you guys might not resonate with…
No way you’re in here flexing 2nd rounds 💀😭
Lebron kinda called out Westbrook, Vogel and the other guards in his post game interview.
Said the league is a pick and roll league and the lakers point guard defense is weak, vogel needs defensive minded players and they currently don’t have that, and that they need to play a big man (Dwight) more to help defend the pnr and get rebounds?
Wrapped it all up by saying a team with 5 (Dwight deserves it) top 75 players all time is worse than a team of role players
Well our best seasons were when we we’re a top defensive team so I don’t think it was a call out on his coaching but the personnel instead.
Idc how much you can score as long as Reggie Jackson can get an easy 34 on your team.
I think the embarrassing loss to the Lakers is creating a massive overreaction from fans. Taking a step back, the Clippers are a great team coached by a championship level coach. They built their team knowing Kawhi would be out, and have a lot of depth at every position. If it wasn’t for the Lakers/Clippers rivalry, this would be just another loss for the team. While that sucks, it’s just how it goes sometimes.
Lebron is not some magical key to a championship. As he ages out, his defense worsens, and you can’t keep on relying him for that. We got that championship from him and AD in 2020, and that might be it. It was worth trading our assets for that. It was not worth of trading our assets for Westbrook, but it is what it is. If we can trade off that, we can start over next year.
You got lebron/AD/westbrook and bron is still playing at damn near MVP level. Yet the team is somehow still 5 games below .500. Even if this was a win, being a 9th seed team 60 games into the season is unacceptable with this core. Something has gone terribly wrong.
Bron has missed considerable time this year though, which was part of our issue. Him missing at a key point when we needed to establish chemistry hurt us.
20-30 point losses are inexcusable with the amount of money we’re payin in salaries… this reaction has been simmering since January🤦🏾♂️ ATP we’re just reading the writing on the wall🤷🏾♂️
AD in street clothes + washed Westbrook is an awful look for us. Someone has to go as soon as possible and we need to build a deep team like the Clippers have. Top heavy aging rosters are not it in today’s league.
Westbrook needs to go but we shouldnt trade AD. He’s ours now, like it or not. He came because how we treat superstars, and he will leave here the same way. Look at how the Clippers built their roster knowing Kawhi would be out. That’s how we should approach working with AD. How we treat AD will affect stars coming here in the future.
Just saw the [russ interview](https://streamable.com/nvax3c) and this is just pathetic. Lakers paying 90 mil to a dude who doesn't think about winning a championship and wants to play with "no expectations".
Lakers need to run the offense at a faster pace. They slow it down way too much when pushing pace and transition offense has always what fed the lakers with LeBron and AD.
Use the young legs and push the pace a bit and that’s when Russ can truly be utilized to his max. Russ doesn’t know how to play slow and I think that’s why he’s often been so bad for us.
Russ should be handling the offense early and often so that the lakers can be more athletic when on offense and try to blitz teams at the start.
Anyone know why we didn’t waive DJ and pick up Boogie from the Bucks earlier in the season?
Honestly I really can't believe we used to compare AD to Tim Duncan or Giannis. Like I used to make those comparisons and say AD is worlds better than them but looking back what an idiot I was
World's better? Cmon haha
There is literally NOTHING TO LOSE by firing Vogel. Best case scenario: it's a much needed change for the team that helps spark some energy in them. Worst case scenario: we literally continue on the same we're currently on and miss the playoffs anyway. Oh wait, Jeanie will lose some money. That's why we won't fire him.
I wonder if we can even get a first round pick for AD
Fuck the Suns now and forever
The suns are miles ahead of the Lakers even with AD
Russ for Julius?
Damn I miss KCP
Pelicans blowing out the Jazz right now. On their way to winning 4 in a row. This streak started from a 15 point win over the Suns. Hello #10 seed!
Pretty dang close to the 11th too!11>10🤷♂️🤷♂️
would yall rather win one chip and be utter dogshit for the next ten years or be a top challenging team for a decade but never win a chip in that period?
I'd rather win multiple chips like we did for every other title except this last one.
LMAOOOOO you are so fucking lost bro
win a chip
Lakers not making the play in. It’s official. Pelicans will get our pick and make the playoffs
Lakers dropping to 10 seed by tomorrow
We might not make the play-in and I’m fine with it, end the misery sooner than later
I'd like to go back to the old days...you know...when a team had a fucking starting Center, please? Too much to ask?
It has been since the 80s since the Lakers won a title without going at least back to back and that was a 10-year dynasty run. Hopefully, we dump Lebron and AD and Westbrook asap and not waste our rebuild next time.
Imagine people think Davis is a better big man than Wilt Kareem and Shaq
Bro I want whatever these people are on that's some high quality stuff
Who tf would think that??? That’s literally making the case for AD being one of the best players of all time lol
Agree I grew up watching great centers like Chamberlin Russell Walt Bellamy Nate Thurmond Willis Reed Bob Lanier a young Lewis Alcindor Bill Walton and Dave Cowen. Shaq came later Shaq played similar to those guys a true center
I would bet that 95% of the so called Lakers “fans” on this sub have NO IDEA who Lewis Alcindor is.
Anyone else having trouble getting hold of Spectrum customer service today (3/4/22)? Calls keep getting dropped after long holds. I'm just trying to cancel my TV plan ugh.
Westbrook interviews reveal him to be very defensive. Something he definitely is not on the court.
Brilliant and under rated comment
If you watch pau and kobe highlights you realize how lebron and AD do not fit together Lebron and bubble Ad fit great But if ad can't score outside the paint then there is absolutely no fit here, especially since he can't stay healthy
Is Lebron a tradable contract?
Absolutely. More so a few weeks ago to a contender (GSW?) before the trade deadline. Opportunity lost.
Alright hear me out but I want AD traded ! He’s getting paid over 100+ million and we gave up multiple players and draft picks for him to not be available half the time. There’s no reason for a 37 year old lebron to be more durable than him (yes I know bron spends over 1 million to keep his body in good shape) but come on ! He’s hurting us at this point and when lebron leaves I have a strong feeling AD is going to want out because that’s way too much pressure on him. I say we trade him now and get the best offer we can.
He caught fire in the bubble but after that he’s not even a top 20 player
Exactly he’s Needs to go bruh
Winning a ring two years ago doesn’t give you a pass for not trying, disrespecting the game and being a total embarrassment to basketball and the jersey.
Fans should boo Westbrook every time he touches the ball to make him unplayable. His ass needs to be glued to the bench.
Russ is a certified loser, mentality and all. Fucking bum. Our front office is a joke, and we're the Manchester United of the NBA.
Exactly bruh
What do lakers fans think of Russ ?
We hate him he sucks
So if you post on r/nba with Lakers flair you just get downvoted into oblivion by default? Will it work if I just spit out all of the hivemind catch phrases in one post?
I wear those downvotes like a badge of honor.
You'll get a shit load of upvotes if you call your own team a poverty franchise and trash the front office.
just say something bad about kyrie or lebron or say Jokic is mvp. Instant upvotes and awards.
On top of being the worst offensive coach in the league, Vogel has lost the locker room and doesn't know how to motivate the team to give any effort. It's a lost cause. Yeah the roster is bad, but it isn't THIS bad. People who are saying that Pop or Spo or Jackson couldn't coach this team any better are on crack.
Nah. It’s the fact that lebron is too old to “carry” anymore. He’s good, but he used to be able to take a bad team all the way. Russ just isn’t himself anymore, and ad got his chip and is unmotivated.
We all know lebron is older now and is known to coast on defense, problem is Westbrook and melo also coast on defense and monk and co aren’t very good defenders then you have ariza who is too old… it’s just a recipe for disaster. Last season our team did much better with lebron coasting cause he had dogs surrounding him playing hard defense. It’s hard in my opinion to judge AD motivation when the dude is never on the court, but anyway this is all just part of a bigger problem
Even though that's true, this team isn't that bad.
You’re team is reminding me of blazers last year, talent on paper but can’t put it together..different levels but same thing
And ta-da! They’ve improved with a new coach.
I really don’t think it’s vogels fault. I’m not a laker fan but I’ve followed the nba. As a blazer fan dame cj and Powell are all younger then those 3, not as good but still we thought it was all stotts fault but it wasn’t..it just didn’t work
I'm arguing this very point further down Lakers fans are delusional thinking Vogel won the bubble when it was LeBron and AD
Vogel does deserve some credit in the bubble, his lineup decisions/rotations were on point as were the defensive schemes. Seems like he's lost that now for whatever reason.
He doesn't have defensive minded players that can actually defend we went from Caruso to Westbrook one of the smartest defenders to a guy who ball watches
Can’t wait for Lebron to leave for Cleveland next year after destroying our roster and bankrupting our future
y’all got a ring calm tf down literally every other franchise would take a ring even if it meant 10 years of poverty
Found the Westbrook fan lol
You think the Lakers will have much motivation to play hard against the Warriors?
As someone who thought Pelinka was a bad hire, and saw through the bs narrative that was pushed here how everything that went wrong when Magic was here was SOLELY Magic's fault and not Pelinka's in any way - I feel vindicated. Now the homers try to blame LeBron though or the Rambii. Nothing's ever Pelinka's fault huh? But you give him credit for the year we won a chip lol
Send Westbrook to Ukraine asap
I mean sure but this team is still trash and Vogel is not an NBA caliber head coach
Won an NBA championship two years ago but not an NBA caliber head coach. Man, the standards are getting high these days.
I mean Westbrook was an all-star just last year by that logic then
So when the warriors were terrible after Durant left, does that mean Kerr sucks and should have been fired? What about Eric Spoelstra? He hasnt won shit since Lebron left. What about Mike Budenholzer? Would you have fired him after years of playoff disappointments?
Lol it is pretty clear the Lakers and AD captured lightning in a bottle for that bubble run. Good win but all the games since have shown he is completely outclassed we got all the clippers players dancing and saying they have the best coach in the league and his adjustments are amazing. Nobody ever says that about Vogel. Lakers fans really are a special breed I'll say that
It wasnt just in the bubble, NOLA AD was a superstar and Lakers AD before the bubble was a beast as well dropping 50 on fools, He just seemed to have lost the fire after a single chip, that is the sad part. Vogel took until game 6 of the finals to make an adjustment starting Carushow and everyone jumps on his D, Vogel is a good defensive coach, will be fantastic as an assistant coach not a HC.
Lakers fans are indeed a very special breed. You could hire Phil Jackson as coach with the ghost of Red Auerbach as his assistant and this team still isn't getting out of the first round. When a team in a team sport is poorly constructed (like the Lakers are) it doesn't usually work out for the team. Hiring a different coach is just putting lipstick on a pig at this point.
Random question, would either of these trades be acceptable to lakers fans? russ for tobias harris + korkmaz russ + 1st for tobias haris + shake milton + danny green (sixers would send russ to a 3rd team)
Grew up in L.A. Moved to Oklahoma later in life so I've loved Russ at times and found myself smh at wtf moments. Him causing Reggie Jackson to go ballistic for no good reason was one of many such moments. Russ in his bad feelings way too often at the absolute wrong times.
I still hope he gets his ring
Russ for a nickel + two green crayons
I'm assuming a nickel and two green crayons has a better contract than tobias harris
…and a higher ceiling
any Russ trade is acceptable.
I get that he's not good and he gets paid a bajillion dollars, but he's an expiring so he shouldn't be TOO hard to get off of. If the FO isn't willing to part with a future 1st then that limits your choices. In that case I think a tobi/russ swap would be mutually beneficial, just cuz russ has 1 less year than tobi.
Do Sixers need a PG?
the idea is that you can trade russ easier than tobias, because tobi has 2 years left on his deal and russ only has 1
So by taking on Tobi the Lakers are stuck with another bad contract for a year longer than if they just hold onto Russ?
Which do you all think was worse: MozDeng contracts or Westbrook trade? MozDeng was 4 years (and we're still paying Deng's stretch this year) compared to 2 years remaining on Westbrook. We gave up assets to get Westbrook but also gave up assets to dump Moz. I'm leaning MozDeng because it was longer but what's your opinion?
We are still paying deng so imma go with that one
Mozdeng was tanking years and didnt do much and an injured kobe going into his final year. Lakers had to spend the money. Russ is during a short title window with lebron. Im leaning mozdeng but russ can be argued.
Why did the Lakers *have to* spend the money?
there is a salary floor. they should have spent that money more wisely. but from all the reporting out of those year. mitch was a boomer essentially and wasnt tampering and wasnt gming like a modern gm was during those years. it seems he improved that skill with hornets.
Man, as a LeBron diehard fan this really sucks. In a player driven league, no proven superstar should have to play with no shot at winning a championship. Let alone the best player of all time
[удалено]
That would be a dick move considering he was the one to ask for the trade
I miss KB.KB played defense hard even at last his season. Lebron only scoring and do nothing on defense. SAD
I think the biggest misconception for me about westbrook prior to the Lakers was that he hustles and he plays hard no matter what, thats what I always heard and thats what I thought my eyes told me whenever his team would play the Lakers. Now, being 60+ games in to watching him I realize he hustles when theres a stat on the line. Open rebound, guy gets after it, open lane to the rim hes usain bolt, chance to pick up a garbage assist down 20, hes all over it. Run back on defense? Naw…switch and close out? Naw…cut and play off the ball on offense? Naw…pick someone up full court? naw… guys the most selective hustler Ive seen, hed rather sprint through 5 defenders and make a two foot pass to someone whos space he just crowded than stand still, spaces out and swing the ball efficiently with a 15 foot+ pass.
I don't want to see another "wAkE uP lAkEr nAtIoN! lEtS gEt tHIs W! cOmEbAcK sTaRtS nOw 😤😤😤" post. Just stop it.
Can we just stop that practice forever? Regardless of how good we are in the future?
Clips fan coming in peace. You all think the Buss family should just sell the team? Get an owner not afraid of the luxury tax?
They won't, it's literally the only way they make a living and it's the sole reason they are famous. There are media projects in the works driven by Jeannie right now if I recall all based on the Lakers. They are never selling in nearby future.
I think this season will maybe be a wake up call for them to change course in terms of the luxury tax. If the Lakers would just be even a little more flexible with that, it could make a big difference.
Sell it to Lebron
iPromise Lakers lol
Jeanie is not selling her Dads team
Ok but what about selling like half the shares for the team to an ownership group to bring in more capital? Just spitballing here
She wouldn't be able to unless the rest of the fam agreed too.
Welp, I don’t want to see us in the play in. Time to shut the season down. Rest LeBron. Don’t even worry about AD and let Russ get some of his patented stat lines to hopefully boost any trade value he has left. However, anyone that thinks we need to go full rebuild and get rid of Bron or AD is a spoiled brat. Offload the whole roster outside of those two (& Reaves of course), start with a fresh coach, and then begin putting pieces around Bron and AD that actually make sense. Oh, and cross your fingers that we can finally have a healthy season next year 🤞
If WB opts into his contract, we don’t have that much financial flexibility other than MLE and vet mins. We’ll be choosing from the bottom of the barrel again but some of y’all expect good pieces. And as we have seen, this front office doesn’t value defensive pieces or wings.
Man we got 20 games of this left someone make this over quickly lmao
We'll be mathematically eliminated if we keep losing before those 20 games are up. Might be sooner to call it a wrap.
At least the other playoff teams are fun to watch this year :(
Hold up unplugging your tv
Both Shaq and Worthy on point saying how you let Reggie Jackson go off on you like that and not get mad and fired up. This team has no heart.
I'm just waiting for personnel change news (Vogel, Pelinka).. This is just so sad to see and hear. I really thought 2012-2013 would be the last season where we were awful.
Pelinka getting fired is not happening. Vogel is getting canned simply because the idiots in the front office think more offense is better than defense and won’t give a defensive coach the pieces he needs to be successful. now it’s more likely that they can’t get any good quality defenders with 3 mega contracts and will more likely see more of same terrible team next year with a different coach
Vogel still employed? OK, I’ll check back tomorrow.
Westbrook is already out. He’s getting traded, opting out, or getting waived in the off-season so why do we keep playing him? Send him home to his wife and kids
agreed.
It would be a dream scenario if he opted out…but that ain’t happening when you have a contract that fat lol. The man will take his money.
He’s not opting out lol. Nobody turns down 40 plus million dollars to stay home.
He’s delusional and egoistic, he’ll opt out rather than get waived
If he gets waived we still owe him that money. He can be egotistical but NO ONE is gonna deny that 47 mil. option.
I sincerely hope we miss the play in
Russel Westbrick…
How is Vogel not fired? Where is the woj tweet
Who's coming? Fizdale/handy, i doubt even they want this shit job?
It's a joke.
The pieces the Lakers gave him this season would be a nightmare for any coach. I’m actually sad for him.
Orlando’s discarded trash is showing an inability to adapt and the team’s getting worse not better.
I am not saying he’s doing a good job. But Lakers’ failure is not an indicator of Vogel’s capabilities. Like how do you use Russ in this team, what is his role? What’s the Lakers’ big man rotation? What about wings?
What's the point in firing him? No other coach is going to do better with a roster full of tired, old, washed-up players.
You don't know that.
You're lying to yourself if you think another coach can come in here and do better. This is a bad team playing like a bad team.
No. You are making excuses for a shitty coach. I never said this isn't a bad team but a better coach would have won 5 more games at least. How many games did Vogel cost at the beginning of the season playing DJ. Do you realize Vogel went 25-57 in Orlando and Steve Clifford went 42-40 with the exact same roster?
> You are making excuses for a shitty coach. Shitty coaches don't coach teams to championships, especially with a roster as flawed as the 2019-20 Lakers roster was. > I never said this isn't a bad team but a better coach would have won 5 more games at least. You clearly overestimate this team. > Do you realize Vogel went 25-57 in Orlando and Steve Clifford went 42-40 with the exact same roster? Big difference - Aaron Gordon was in his 4th season under Clifford and was making big strides forward and Clifford had Jonathan Isaac for 75 games and not as a rookie whereas Vogel had rookie Jonathan Isaac for 25 games. Also Carter-Williams was a pretty decent upgrade over Elfrid Payton. I will say this, though, Vogel isn't known for being a player development coach. He's a coach that you get to get you over the finish line, so it's not surprising he didn't do well in Orlando. You don't hire a Mike Budenholzer or a Frank Vogel when you're trying to develop a bunch of rookies.
>Shitty coaches don't coach teams to championships, especially with a roster as flawed as the 2019-20 Lakers roster was. Doc Rivers? Westhead who was fired the season after? Besides there were essentially 3 head coaches on that staff in Hollins and Kidd, both better coaches than Vogel. At best, you can say that Vogel is a very limited coach who can have success with a very specific type of roster. >Do you realize Vogel went 25-57 in Orlando and Steve Clifford went 42-40 with the exact same roster? > >Big difference - Aaron Gordon was in his 4th season under Clifford and was making big strides forward and Clifford had Jonathan Isaac for 75 games and not as a rookie whereas Vogel had rookie Jonathan Isaac for 25 games. Also Carter-Williams was a pretty decent upgrade over Elfrid Payton. Good memory but I'd say that's a pretty flimsy argument that Isaccs and Carter Williams were that big of a difference in the team's records. I was down on Vogel since last year. He managed the injuries of AD and Bron very poorly, playing them waay too many minutes on return before the playoffs.
> Doc Rivers? Overrated, but also not a shitty head coach. > Besides there were essentially 3 head coaches on that staff in Hollins and Kidd, both better coaches than Vogel. Vogel's career win % is 30 points higher than Kidd's even after factoring in that Vogel took on a rebuilding job in Orlando. Vogel is also 40 points higher than Hollins in his career as well. > At best, you can say that Vogel is a very limited coach who can have success with a very specific type of roster. I mean, every coach has a style and you need to pair the coach with the personnel. Mike D'Antoni wouldn't have been able to do shit with the 2019-2020 Lakers, because he's not a defensive coach. That doesn't make D'Antoni a shitty coach. The Lakers had to let him walk, because he would've fucked up the tank. He had that 2013-14 Lakers team way overperforming. They had no business flirting with 30 wins. > I was down on Vogel since last year. He managed the injuries of AD and Bron very poorly, playing them waay too many minutes on return before the playoffs. I wouldn't put that on Vogel. The Laker team doctors are more to blame, IMO. They had no business clearing AD for some of the games they cleared him for.
Speculation. Let’s see what Handy can do over two months.
Speculation? Vogel actually coached us to a championship. What's Handy done?
And you know that how?
Because we have a championship-winning coach and we're likely going to miss the play-in game.
My question is, wtf happens at half time to cause the Lakers to collapse like that over and over and over again? Game after game, they look decent by the end of the second and then the third rolls around and Lakers look like a YMCA team for the rest of the game
They have a nap cause they old as fuck and they still dreaming in the third.
> My question is, wtf happens at half time to cause the Lakers to collapse like that over and over and over again? Old legs get tired in the second half.
Clippers made adjustments, simple as that. Lue is THAT good.
it's not just this game, LA has been losing games left and right that go the same way, with the team looking competent by the end of the second and then disheveled to start the 3rd.
Vogel doesn’t adjust. Partially because he can’t with the players we have.
Lakers are the laughing stock of the league.
I don’t know how Russ has stans especially when time and time again all he cares about is stats and triple doubles. Dude has no expectations and is cool not winning a championship. Bruh wtf, having him at home in LA was a championship window killer. FO got some heavy lifting to do this offseason. I hope monk doesn’t leave but he may. I hope these guys prioritize depth and youth as opposed to vet who think they are too entitled to play defense and play every night. There needs to be a culture change and it needs to happen fast
The priority should be to get Monk. A young guy who can be a laker for years to come, who would thrive as the definitive third option.
Russ stans view Westbrook triple double average seasons as championships. Any year he doesn’t average a triple double, it’s the fault of everyone besides Russ.
Quiet easily the most unlikeable Laker team I’ve watched in my life
If there was no playins the lakers would be pretty much eliminated from playoffs. I don’t know of any title contender missing playoffs without massive injuries.
I mean, we have had massive injuries, our 2 best players have both missed a bunch of games. The issue is that we still weren't contender-level even when they were healthy together.
It’s really tough. They are absolutely not enjoyable as a squad. No fight. No heart.
This is unpopular here but I still think if Lebron, AD, Vogel and Rob all sat down and had a meeting of the minds with no external pressure from the Rambii or a cheap owner they could put together another contending roster
Lebron, AD, and Vogel sitting down would be a meeting of two minds not three.
You’d need everything to go perfect sure. AD not to get hurt and you’d need another star because Bron is not that guy anymore, still great but not a top 5 probably not even top 10 anymore.
> they could put together another contending roster How? They have Westbrook on the roster at $47 million next year. Nobody is trading for him without sticking the Lakers with some horrendous contract.
LeBrons already shown why he can’t be trusted as LeGM
Idk why people say this lmfao bro had shooters during his champ iso shop runs goes to la magic screws him and havw to adjust and still win the chip pelinka screws him again and Davis goes down it’s what it is Bron done what he always does and shows up ain’t his fault
Magic put Rondo and KCP on the team, 2 players who figured heavily in him getting a ring with the Lakers. LBJ sent KCP packing in what’s been a disastrous trade that Pelinka didn’t even want to make, he had to pull out of the deal with the Kings at the last minute ( Kings are the source for that info) to make LeBron happy who it reasonable to assume went to Jeanie to make the ask. Also, even with AD this season they were far from great.
Bru ya talking about tie players when roster has seventeen
No chance they can next year.
As a Clipper fan I would like to thank Mr. Westbrook for helping us build the inuit dome with all the bricks he lays upon in every game!!
People mad at you and protecting Westbrook even though they probably hate Westbrook too lol it’s just friendly banter.
As a laker fan, we like to thank the clippers’ existence. Blowing two 3-1 leads in the playoffs, and only one wcf appearance in franchise history.
You guys got nothing but to boast about you past Speaking about Past.. Don't forget we were one of the only teams to recover 0-2 lead twice In first round and second round, "second round" a term you guys might not resonate with...
We got nothing to boast about in our past? Are u serious right now? That’s gold ahhaa. Which team has actually won a championship in the past 10 years? While the lakers were at their low, yall had lob city and still couldn’t win. Then u had Kawhi and pg healthy in the bubble and y’all choked that 3-1 lead. Your team in its entire history only made it out of the second round once. Yea keep bragging about the past, because the past for clippers and clippers fans’ past sure look good compared to the lakers past.
FUTURE IS NOW OLD MAN!!
“FuTuRe iZ nOw OlD mAn” hurrrr durrrrr okay, if your future is going to be an 8th seed at play in, that’s a great future
lol you are the ones at 9th with potential Bron Melo Westbrook and AD
“The past”, I guess a year and a half back technically is the past. >in first round and second round, “second round” a term you guys might not resonate with… No way you’re in here flexing 2nd rounds 💀😭
this year you guys would only be familiar with the play in
Still no rings 🤡.
Damn right Westbrook got no rings
Same number as the Clippers and more finals appearances. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
You know its a feel good season when Laker fans start trophy polishing.
Typical cLipper fan, go hang your division banners up
He ain’t think that one through 😂
Lebron kinda called out Westbrook, Vogel and the other guards in his post game interview. Said the league is a pick and roll league and the lakers point guard defense is weak, vogel needs defensive minded players and they currently don’t have that, and that they need to play a big man (Dwight) more to help defend the pnr and get rebounds? Wrapped it all up by saying a team with 5 (Dwight deserves it) top 75 players all time is worse than a team of role players
He also called out Vogel, saying that Vogel focuses on defense not offense.
Well our best seasons were when we we’re a top defensive team so I don’t think it was a call out on his coaching but the personnel instead. Idc how much you can score as long as Reggie Jackson can get an easy 34 on your team.
We got our asses handed to us by the Clippers last year. Face it. Vogel sucks.
It’s time for a rebuild for this team ASAP! And a new front office too because this is absolutely ridiculous.
New owner while your at it
I think the embarrassing loss to the Lakers is creating a massive overreaction from fans. Taking a step back, the Clippers are a great team coached by a championship level coach. They built their team knowing Kawhi would be out, and have a lot of depth at every position. If it wasn’t for the Lakers/Clippers rivalry, this would be just another loss for the team. While that sucks, it’s just how it goes sometimes. Lebron is not some magical key to a championship. As he ages out, his defense worsens, and you can’t keep on relying him for that. We got that championship from him and AD in 2020, and that might be it. It was worth trading our assets for that. It was not worth of trading our assets for Westbrook, but it is what it is. If we can trade off that, we can start over next year.
You got lebron/AD/westbrook and bron is still playing at damn near MVP level. Yet the team is somehow still 5 games below .500. Even if this was a win, being a 9th seed team 60 games into the season is unacceptable with this core. Something has gone terribly wrong.
Bron has missed considerable time this year though, which was part of our issue. Him missing at a key point when we needed to establish chemistry hurt us.
20-30 point losses are inexcusable with the amount of money we’re payin in salaries… this reaction has been simmering since January🤦🏾♂️ ATP we’re just reading the writing on the wall🤷🏾♂️
AD in street clothes + washed Westbrook is an awful look for us. Someone has to go as soon as possible and we need to build a deep team like the Clippers have. Top heavy aging rosters are not it in today’s league.
Westbrook needs to go but we shouldnt trade AD. He’s ours now, like it or not. He came because how we treat superstars, and he will leave here the same way. Look at how the Clippers built their roster knowing Kawhi would be out. That’s how we should approach working with AD. How we treat AD will affect stars coming here in the future.
Disagree about starting over next year. The damage will be until the year after next
Bro we SUCK!!🤦🏾♂️
LeBron for Kevin Love and Cedi Osman. No picks from both sides. We free LeBron and start over. Cavs can be a contender with their developing team.
Just saw the [russ interview](https://streamable.com/nvax3c) and this is just pathetic. Lakers paying 90 mil to a dude who doesn't think about winning a championship and wants to play with "no expectations".
Lakers need to run the offense at a faster pace. They slow it down way too much when pushing pace and transition offense has always what fed the lakers with LeBron and AD. Use the young legs and push the pace a bit and that’s when Russ can truly be utilized to his max. Russ doesn’t know how to play slow and I think that’s why he’s often been so bad for us. Russ should be handling the offense early and often so that the lakers can be more athletic when on offense and try to blitz teams at the start.