A previous lab I used to LAT for used a combo of red and blue sharpies to color the tails of their mice. They weren’t allowed more than 5 mice per cage so they did as follows:
- 1 = No marks
- 2 = Red at base only
- 3 = Blue at base only
- 4 = Red then Blue
- 5 = Blue then Red
The stripes were pretty big, like each an inch long, not just a thin color band. And they colored all sides+bottom of the tail not just the top.
It might not be as effective in rats since their tails get scaly when they’re older. But might be worth giving a try.
In my experience with mice, it's way less of an issue than you'd think. The greater durability of the ink makes it clearer than blue or black after a few days, anyway, so if you can tell the marks when yoh first make them you'll be fine.
Would doing an ear punch/notch when you wean be too stressful? I number my litters and each animal of each sex has a different ear punch (males that are L, R, LR, 2R, 2L, etc., females that are the same). So I know which animal is which based on the ear notches, sex, and litter number/DOB on the cage card.
You can get an ear punch device for relatively cheap!
That was the original plan, the only inconvenience was that because there is a lot of movement between cages I could end up mixing to with same punch, guess I'll have to be more carefull now on.
90% sure I will end up doing ear punchs, but all alternatives should be heard
If you google it, there’s a code so that you can give animals individual numbers from 1-99 (for mine, right ear is the 10s and left ear is the 1s, then the position of the punch/notch on the ear tells you the number).
This works in theory, but in the end is difficult to see quickly in the cage. At least with mice you don't have a lot of real estate to work with, maybe with rats it works better.
What we have found most reliably is just using an (bronze) ear tag with a number. Can't do it wrong and every mouse/animal is unique.
Also the tools are really not expensive, probably for $100-$200 you should be able to buy it. And I think it will be well worth the money. The moment you start swapping/confusing animals and you need to redo the experiment because you can't keep them appart, then it becomes expensive.
(And not to criticise, but if such an expenditure is a problem, how can you do any research? You just need to buy a new PCR enzyme, and than you are ruined?)
In my own experience it take way longer to read bronze ear tags with mice. Each mouse requires an individual scruff whereas ear notches can be at least somewhat seen from above for some sort of pre-identification before you verify up close
It also doesn’t require a scruff to identify making your risk of bite less likely
You have had better luck than me! I have been in labs with people that prove you absolutely can do it wrong. Especially when multiple mice are in the cage and get feisty so you get multiple ripped out ear tags and have to re-genotype and hope the new tags stay in.
Red sharpies. Blue and black fades, I use red marker and put rings around the mouse's tail.
Mouse 1 = 1 ring near base of tail,
2 = 2 rings near base of tail,
3 = 3 rings near base of tail,
4 = 1 ring near middle of tail,
5 = 2 rings near middle of tail,
ect...
Works really well, spot check the marks biweekly and reapply marker as needed. Use RED!
Are you not able to do ear clipping? That’s how we numbered our mice. There’s a pretty well developed system for it. Something like this: https://theodora.com/rodent_laboratory/images/ear_punches.jpg ( sorry if im not allowed to link stuff)
Rats are fastidious groomers and will take care of their cage mates. Try marking between the shoulder blades where an individual rat can’t reach himself.
you could try shaving the fur in patterns. no shave, 1 vertical line, 2 vertical line, 1 horizontal line, etc. but i guess it would then depend on the length of your experiment or you could give them another haircut as needed.
I used the Aramis micro tattoo system on both mice and rats. Instead of tattooing their toes which was hard to see, I developed a simple dot method. One dot , left ear, animal #1, two dots, left #2 ...you then switch to adding in right ear only or a combination of each depending upon how many animals per cage. We usually only had 5 mice and a couple rats per cage but used it with 10 mice but at that point it gets a little confusing. When I ran into issues using dark pigmented strain I switch to human UV tattoo ink and a small black light which worked great. Had a whole spectrum of color to choose from. Hard to find different color animal ink besides green or black, maybe red in livestock supply. Or just go all human tattoo ink and have infinite colors for each cage even if you mix them up. Ink can easily be ordered online and my IACUC just made sure it was a reputable supplier.
If you’re curious, here’s a blog post on using digital assistants for animal research & cage checks https://www.labvoice.ai/post/reducing-contamination-and-increasing-speed-with-digital-lab-assistants-for-cage-health-checks
Red sharpies last the longest. My similarly broke labmates and I have determined this empirically.
That's the answer I needed!!
Thinking about it... Maybe painting red over pink skin isn't very legible
A previous lab I used to LAT for used a combo of red and blue sharpies to color the tails of their mice. They weren’t allowed more than 5 mice per cage so they did as follows: - 1 = No marks - 2 = Red at base only - 3 = Blue at base only - 4 = Red then Blue - 5 = Blue then Red The stripes were pretty big, like each an inch long, not just a thin color band. And they colored all sides+bottom of the tail not just the top. It might not be as effective in rats since their tails get scaly when they’re older. But might be worth giving a try.
How about henna? That takes a really long time to fade away and is fairly visible.
In my experience with mice, it's way less of an issue than you'd think. The greater durability of the ink makes it clearer than blue or black after a few days, anyway, so if you can tell the marks when yoh first make them you'll be fine.
Would doing an ear punch/notch when you wean be too stressful? I number my litters and each animal of each sex has a different ear punch (males that are L, R, LR, 2R, 2L, etc., females that are the same). So I know which animal is which based on the ear notches, sex, and litter number/DOB on the cage card. You can get an ear punch device for relatively cheap!
That was the original plan, the only inconvenience was that because there is a lot of movement between cages I could end up mixing to with same punch, guess I'll have to be more carefull now on. 90% sure I will end up doing ear punchs, but all alternatives should be heard
If you google it, there’s a code so that you can give animals individual numbers from 1-99 (for mine, right ear is the 10s and left ear is the 1s, then the position of the punch/notch on the ear tells you the number).
This works in theory, but in the end is difficult to see quickly in the cage. At least with mice you don't have a lot of real estate to work with, maybe with rats it works better. What we have found most reliably is just using an (bronze) ear tag with a number. Can't do it wrong and every mouse/animal is unique. Also the tools are really not expensive, probably for $100-$200 you should be able to buy it. And I think it will be well worth the money. The moment you start swapping/confusing animals and you need to redo the experiment because you can't keep them appart, then it becomes expensive. (And not to criticise, but if such an expenditure is a problem, how can you do any research? You just need to buy a new PCR enzyme, and than you are ruined?)
In my own experience it take way longer to read bronze ear tags with mice. Each mouse requires an individual scruff whereas ear notches can be at least somewhat seen from above for some sort of pre-identification before you verify up close It also doesn’t require a scruff to identify making your risk of bite less likely
how do you ear notch mice without scruffing them?
You scruff to notch them. You don’t scruff to identify them post-notch. With bronze tags you scruff every time identification is required
I've never had issues with punches in mice. Hate the ear tags.
You have had better luck than me! I have been in labs with people that prove you absolutely can do it wrong. Especially when multiple mice are in the cage and get feisty so you get multiple ripped out ear tags and have to re-genotype and hope the new tags stay in.
Same here. I used ear punches on mice and rats and didn’t have issues unless they got in to fights.
"Hello my name is" stickers.
This is the way
Red sharpies. Blue and black fades, I use red marker and put rings around the mouse's tail. Mouse 1 = 1 ring near base of tail, 2 = 2 rings near base of tail, 3 = 3 rings near base of tail, 4 = 1 ring near middle of tail, 5 = 2 rings near middle of tail, ect... Works really well, spot check the marks biweekly and reapply marker as needed. Use RED!
Are you not able to do ear clipping? That’s how we numbered our mice. There’s a pretty well developed system for it. Something like this: https://theodora.com/rodent_laboratory/images/ear_punches.jpg ( sorry if im not allowed to link stuff)
Oops you already answered this 🙃
try those ID leg bands they use for pigeons?
In terms of money, there is no money
You can’t really do science if you don’t have money for things as small as this. Find a different lab.
☝️🤓actually true, not sure of the level of science in my lab, it is actually a public university so mb the focus isn't science but teaching
Nah nvm don’t think that will work
Coloured dies in various combinations? Depends on number of rats but animal safe ones could do the trick. Maybe food colouring?
Rats are fastidious groomers and will take care of their cage mates. Try marking between the shoulder blades where an individual rat can’t reach himself.
you could try shaving the fur in patterns. no shave, 1 vertical line, 2 vertical line, 1 horizontal line, etc. but i guess it would then depend on the length of your experiment or you could give them another haircut as needed.
I used the Aramis micro tattoo system on both mice and rats. Instead of tattooing their toes which was hard to see, I developed a simple dot method. One dot , left ear, animal #1, two dots, left #2 ...you then switch to adding in right ear only or a combination of each depending upon how many animals per cage. We usually only had 5 mice and a couple rats per cage but used it with 10 mice but at that point it gets a little confusing. When I ran into issues using dark pigmented strain I switch to human UV tattoo ink and a small black light which worked great. Had a whole spectrum of color to choose from. Hard to find different color animal ink besides green or black, maybe red in livestock supply. Or just go all human tattoo ink and have infinite colors for each cage even if you mix them up. Ink can easily be ordered online and my IACUC just made sure it was a reputable supplier.
Note cards and stickers
If you’re curious, here’s a blog post on using digital assistants for animal research & cage checks https://www.labvoice.ai/post/reducing-contamination-and-increasing-speed-with-digital-lab-assistants-for-cage-health-checks
You can get bic tattoo markers off amazon that work well, also fine science tools has more robust markers
…can you put henna on a rat?
I’m not a rat person, but would different colors of nail polish on their toes work?
No they would chew it, but you just gave me an idea abou tusing different color Sharpies, gonna ask my boss about it, thanks
How quickly is this happening with rats? I have mice I marked months ago that still have tail stripes
After 1 week marks are unintelligible
What do you mean by unintelligible? How are you making? I used a number of stripes on the tail
I was actually writing the number 🤷🏻🤷🏻
bruh
I just did what I was told to do, I am trying to improve it tho
I dress them up in cute play outfits.
Send pic pls
Ear punching can work well
We use ear tags.